March 7th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Davellin Arvizo (Cross Examination) and Star Arvizo (Direct Examination), Part 3 of 3
Star then goes on to describe how he heard threats from Frank Cascio, and where he and his family stayed during their time away from Neverland after security manager Jesus Salas drove them away in a Rolls-Royce:
26 Q. Now, do you remember — do you remember
27 leaving with Jesus.
28 A. Yes. 1104
1 Q. All right. And tell the jury what time you
2 left and under what circumstances.
3 A. It was really late at night. It was really
4 late at night, and it was spontaneous. He just –
5 he pulled around the car and we left.
6 Q. Now, where were all your clothes prior to
8 A. In the room.
9 Q. What room.
10 A. Guest unit.
11 Q. Your clothes were in the guest unit.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. So you gathered up your belongings, you got
14 in the car and you left. Where did you go.
15 A. To my grandma’s house.
16 Q. Now, at the time that you were at the ranch
17 before you left with Jesus, were you — did you
18 personally — not what somebody else said, but did
19 you personally hear anybody threaten anyone.
20 A. When I was trying to head to my — when I
21 was trying to head to my mom’s guest unit, Frank
22 approached me, and he was — he was — I don’t
23 remember what I was trying to do, but I was trying
24 to go to my mom’s guest unit, and Frank was telling
25 me that he has ways that my grand –
26 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
27 MR. SNEDDON: Same offer, Your Honor.
28 THE COURT: All right. This is conditionally 1105
1 admitted under the previous instruction.
2 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Go ahead. You can tell us,
4 A. He was saying that he has ways that my
5 grandparents could disappear.
6 Q. And that was told to you personally.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did you tell that to anybody else.
9 A. No.
10 Q. Now, did you ever go back to the ranch after
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. So I want to talk about now, I want
14 to talk about some events that occurred from the
15 time that you left the ranch with Jesus till the
16 time you went back.
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. Okay. Do you — where did you spend that
20 A. At my grandma’s house.
21 Q. Were you ever over at Jay Jackson’s house.
22 A. I don’t remember.
23 Q. Do you remember an occasion where a private
24 investigator came to Mr. Jackson’s house and there
25 was an interview with you and the family.
26 A. Yes.
27 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
28 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer was, 1106
1 “Yes.” Next question.
2 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Can you tell us when you
3 believe that to have occurred.
4 A. Oh, it was probably a couple days after we
5 came back from the ranch the first time.
6 Q. And were you present during that
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And did you participate in that
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Now, you said — I believe you just said you
13 went back to the ranch.
14 A. No, when we came back from the ranch.
15 Q. When you came back from the ranch. Did you
16 ever go back to the ranch.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Do you remember who you were with when you
19 went back to the ranch.
20 A. No, I don’t remember.
21 Q. You went back by yourself.
22 A. No, I went back with my — my brother, my
23 sister and — I don’t think — I don’t know. I
24 think it was –
25 Q. I’m sorry, you’re going to have to lean into
26 the mike.
27 A. I think it was my brother, my sister, me and
28 my mom. 1107
Next, Star is asked by Sneddon about statements that he made during the filming of the rebuttal video:
22 Q. Now, you — you left the ranch again,
23 correct. Do you remember the next time you left the
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. What was the reason you left.
27 A. To do a rebuttal.
28 Q. And who did you leave with. 1108
1 A. Hamid.
2 Q. And do you know where you went.
3 A. We went to his house.
4 Q. By “his house,” you mean who.
5 A. Hamid’s house.
6 Q. And who else was with you in the car besides
7 you and Hamid.
8 A. My brother and my sister.
9 Q. When you got to Hamid’s house, what did you
11 A. Me and my brother, we sat down, we started
12 playing video games.
13 Q. Was there anybody else there at the time
14 that you arrived besides you and your brother and
15 your sister and Hamid.
16 A. No.
17 Q. Did anybody else arrive after that.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Who arrived after that.
20 A. Vinnie, my mom, other people.
21 Q. Do you remember the names of any of those
23 A. No.
24 Q. Do you remember how many there were.
25 A. A lot.
26 Q. Now, you said you and your brother were
27 playing video games. What room were you in.
28 A. The living room. 1109
1 Q. And do you recall the filming — the actual
2 filming that occurred later. Was it in that room or
3 a different room.
4 A. It was in that room.
5 Q. And when your mother arrived, where was your
6 mother. Was she in that room or another room.
7 A. She was — she was in another room.
8 Q. With you.
9 A. What do you mean. Like –
10 Q. I couldn’t hear you.
11 A. At what time.
12 Q. When she first got there, where was she.
13 A. She was where the pool table was.
14 Q. Is that in the living room or another room.
15 A. That’s another room.
16 Q. And so she was in there. How long was she
17 in there.
18 A. I don’t know.
19 Q. You weren’t in there, right.
20 A. No.
21 Q. Now, before you left the ranch — before you
22 left the ranch with Hamid to go to his house
23 – okay. – could you tell me whether or not Dieter or
24 Ronald were there.
25 A. They were there.
26 Q. Can you tell me whether or not you had any
27 meeting with — or conversation with them.
28 A. Yes, we had a conversation with them. 1110
1 Q. And what did — let’s talk about Dieter.
2 Who was doing the talking.
3 A. Dieter.
4 Q. What did he say.
5 A. He was telling me just to say only good
6 things and — about Michael.
7 Q. Who else was present during that
9 A. My brother, my sister, my mom.
10 Q. Okay. You’re at Hamid’s house and you’re
11 about ready to — for the filming. Do you remember
12 what time it was when you got to Hamid’s.
13 A. 1:00 in the morning, when we first got
15 Q. And do you remember the filming.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Were you in the whole film.
18 A. I think so.
19 Q. Now, the things that you said on the film,
20 the rebuttal film – okay.
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. You have to indicate “Yes” or “No.”
23 A. Oh, yes.
24 Q. There’s a statement in there that the
25 defendant, Mr. Jackson, helped you do your homework.
26 Was that true.
27 A. No.
28 Q. And there’s a statement in there that you 1111
1 always had his telephone number so you could get
2 ahold of him. Is that true.
3 A. No.
4 Q. How did you feel about Mr. Jackson at the
5 time you participated in this rebuttal film.
6 A. I don’t remember. Probably at that point I
7 thought he was an okay guy.
Next, Sneddon asks Star about the truthfulness of the positive statements he made about Jackson to the DCFS social workers:
20 Q. Now, when you had the interview with the
21 social workers, was everybody in the same room or
22 did they take people separately.
23 A. Everyone was in the same room.
24 Q. And do you remember any conversations with
25 the social workers about what you said to them.
26 A. Not really. I don’t remember what I exactly
28 Q. Do you remember the topics that were covered 1114
1 by the questions.
2 A. I think everyone was wondering whether –
3 no, I don’t remember.
4 Q. Well, take your time.
5 A. I don’t remember.
6 Q. Was everything you told them the truth.
7 A. No, not exactly.
8 Q. What do you mean, “not exactly”.
9 A. Like — I don’t know. Just, like, he
10 never — he never really helped us with our
11 homework. He — can’t think of another example.
In this excerpt, Star confirms that his brother Gavin referred to Jackson as “Daddy” or “Michael Daddy” on numerous occasions, although Star insinuated that it was because Jackson told him to call him that, when in reality it was their mother who encouraged it, and that will be confirmed later on in the trial:
4 Q. Now, during the time that you knew Mr.
5 Jackson, did he used to call you “Star”.
6 A. No. No.
7 Q. What did he call you.
8 A. “Blow Hole.”
9 Q. “Blow Hole”.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And when he talked to Gavin, did he call
12 Gavin “Gavin”.
13 A. Yes, he called him “Apple Head” or
15 Q. And did you have a name that you called the
17 A. No.
18 Q. Did you ever — anybody refer to him as
19 “Michael” or “Michael Daddy,” or “Daddy”.
20 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
21 THE COURT: Overruled.
22 THE WITNESS: My brother called him “Daddy.”
23 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Did you hear him do that on
24 more than one occasion.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. How many.
27 A. I know it was more than twice.
The next subject that Sneddon questioned Star about was his family’s time at the Calabasas Inn, and the shopping sprees that they went on, which Star claimed were for their upcoming trip to Brazil:
28 Q. Now, you’ve told the ladies and gentlemen of 1121
1 the jury that you were at the Calabasas Inn for a
2 number of days.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. What did you do there. Tell me what — some
5 of the things you did.
6 A. We got our passports and visas.
7 Q. Did — you say “we.” Who’s “we”.
8 A. My brother, my sister and my mom.
9 Q. Did you do that — were you alone when you
10 did that or did somebody go with you.
11 A. Frank and Vinnie were with us.
12 Q. Do you remember where you went to get the
14 A. I think it’s — I don’t remember where the
15 building was. But I remember where we got a pass –
16 our pictures.
17 Q. Where did you get your pictures taken.
18 A. At a Walgreen’s.
19 Q. Did — were you with — did you go to get a
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And who went with you.
23 A. Frank and Vinnie.
24 Q. And anybody else.
25 A. My mom, my brother and my sister and me.
26 Q. While you were at the Calabasas Inn there,
27 did you go shopping.
28 A. Yes. 1122
1 Q. Where did you go shopping.
2 A. We went to some outlets. We shopped at a
3 Levis store, Club Banana store, and we shopped for
5 Q. Did you know why you were shopping.
6 A. Because we were going to go to Brazil.
7 Q. And who told you you were going to go to
9 A. I think it was Frank. Because he wanted us
10 to — he wanted it to be educational or something.
11 Q. Is that what he said.
12 A. Yeah, that’s what he was telling us.
13 Q. Did Frank say anything to you whether or not
14 the defendant, Michael Jackson, was going to go to
15 Brazil with you.
16 A. He said about four weeks after we were
17 there, then Michael was going to come.
18 Q. So it was going to be a long trip.
19 A. Yeah.
20 Q. Do you remember anything else about the time
21 that you stayed in Calabasas. Did you ever go to
22 the swimming pool.
23 A. No.
24 Q. Why.
25 A. We never had time to. Well, we never went
26 to the swimming pool.
27 Q. Did you — during the time you were there,
28 do you know where Frank and Vinnie were staying. 1123
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Where.
3 A. Down the hall from us.
4 Q. How do you know that.
5 A. Because we saw them.
6 Q. Tell us how that happened.
7 A. When we were — when he set us up in our
8 room, we saw him walk back to his room.
9 Q. Did you ever see them on any other occasions
10 when they were in their room, or when you walked
11 past their room.
12 A. What. I don’t — no.
13 Q. Okay. So when you came back — so after you
14 were at Calabasas, where did you go after all that
15 was done, the things you’ve described.
16 A. We went back to the ranch.
17 Q. And who took you back to the ranch.
18 A. Frank.
Star went on to describe an alleged incident where Jackson repeatedly kept saying the word “clitoris” while watching a horror movie called “The Devil’s Backbone” with himself and his brother, and another incident where he claimed that Jackson walked into his bedroom in the nude in front of the boys, with an erection. Star claimed that Dr. Katz called it a “hard on”, but that he calls it an “erection”; this was an obvious attempt by Sneddon to give the jury the impression that Star was sexually naïve. Notice how Star initially couldn’t remember this incident, but had to be reminded of it by Sneddon!
21 Q. All right. Now, are you familiar with a
22 movie called “The Devil’s Backbone”.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. All right. Where was it the first time you
25 saw that movie.
26 A. Upstairs.
27 Q. Upstairs where.
28 A. In his bedroom. 1126
1 Q. Whose bedroom.
2 A. Michael’s bedroom.
3 Q. And how many times have you seen that movie.
4 A. Three times.
5 Q. And where did you see it the other two
7 A. In his bedroom.
8 Q. Did Mr. Jackson ever say anything to you
9 about that movie.
10 A. There was one time, Frank was walking up,
11 and there was a girl on the movie — or a movie, and
12 he just kept on saying “clitoris.”
13 Q. Who did.
14 A. Michael.
15 Q. Do you know what that means.
16 A. No.
17 Q. Do you know what it means now.
18 A. No.
19 Q. Do you know what it meant then.
20 A. No.
21 Q. Now, was there — after you got back from
22 Calabasas – okay. –
23 A. Okay.
24 Q. — was there ever an occasion where
25 anything else unusual happened between you and your
26 brother and the defendant, Michael Jackson.
27 A. Do you mean after staying at Cal — what was
28 it. What was the question. 1127
1 Q. Yeah. Anything else unusual that you saw
2 about the defendant, Michael Jackson.
3 A. No.
4 Q. Pardon.
5 A. I don’t know.
6 Q. Do you ever recall an occasion where he
7 walked into the room and you and your brother were
8 on a bed.
9 A. Oh.
10 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
11 THE COURT: Overruled.
12 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Just — do you recall that
13 occasion, when you were sitting on the bed, and he
14 walked into the room.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury
17 what you saw.
18 A. Me and my brother were watching a movie, and
19 Michael walked up naked. And he walked to the
20 corner of the room, picked up something. Me and my
21 brother were grossed out. And he sat on the bed and
22 he told us it was natural, and then he walked back
24 Q. Did either you or your brother say anything
25 to him. Let me break it up, because I don’t want to
26 get a compound problem here.
27 Did you say anything to him when he walked
28 in. 1128
1 A. I was just grossed out.
2 Q. No, but did you say anything to him.
3 A. No.
4 Q. Did brother say anything to him in your
6 A. No.
7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
8 THE COURT: Overruled.
9 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: The answer was.
10 A. “No.”
11 Q. How long was it that Mr. Jackson was in the
12 room with you and your brother naked.
13 A. Probably about two minutes.
14 Q. Did you see anything else about Mr. Jackson
15 at that time.
16 A. No.
17 Q. When you say he was naked, what was he
18 wearing, if anything.
19 A. Nothing.
20 Q. Totally naked.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. So you could see his private parts.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did you see anything about his private
25 parts, one way or the other.
26 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
27 THE COURT: Overruled.
28 THE WITNESS: What. 1129
1 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: I asked you if you saw his
2 private parts.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Anything unusual about his private parts.
5 A. Oh, he had a hard-on.
6 Q. That’s what you call it.
7 A. Well, that’s what Dr. Katz called it, so –
8 Q. What do you call it.
9 A. Erection.
10 Q. Either way, that’s what you saw.
11 A. Yes.
Here is a major discrepancy that I want to take the time to point out! Star just stated that Jackson ran back downstairs after telling them it was “natural” to have an erection, but during his opening statement Sneddon said that Star and Gavin ran downstairs and pretended to have to use the bathroom! Here’s the excerpt from Sneddon’s opening statement:
11 It’s in this room and on that bed where the
12 boys were sitting there watching T.V. one night, and
13 all of a sudden, the defendant appears from the
14 stairwell, absolutely stark naked, with an erection.
15 And when the boys look at him – and Star will say he
16 was grossed out – that the defendant says, “It’s
17 natural. It’s okay. Why don’t you boys do the same
18 thing.” Their response was to get up from the bed
19 and go downstairs and pretend like they had to go to
20 the bathroom.
There is an important observation that was brought to my attention by Lynette, one of the authors of this blog: the reason that Star said that Jackson showed him a horror movie is because it is consistent with Jordan Chandler’s story from 1993, in which he claimed that he and Jackson watched “The Exorcist” together. This proves that the Arvizos studied the leaked declaration (and NOT a deposition!) of Jordan Chandler that hit the internet shortly after the Bashir documentary aired in the USA. This story was concocted in order to promote the fallacy that Jackson’s M.O. was to force his “victims” to watch a horror movie as part of his “grooming” process.
This next excerpt was initially crucial for the prosecution, but it would later be used to the advantage of the defense! Star says that he was shown an issue of a “Barely Legal” pornographic magazine, and it was entered into evidence as “People’s 86”. We’ll get back to this particular issue of that magazine later on in Star’s testimony! Be sure to pay attention to Judge Melville’s admonishment of Sneddon for his use of the word “pornography”:
14 Q. Let’s go to the next photograph, if we
15 could. And is that No. 58.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. All right. Do you recognize 58.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Tell us about 58.
20 A. That’s the inside — that’s –
21 Q. Inside of what.
22 A. Michael’s room. Downstairs in the — it’s
23 the room all the way to the left, inside of it.
24 Q. Do you have a name for that room.
25 A. It’s probably a bathroom or rest room.
26 Q. Did anything occur in this room while you
27 were there.
28 A. There’s a black suitcase. 1140
1 Q. What about it.
2 A. It had pornography in there.
3 Q. In this room.
4 A. Yes.
1 MR. SNEDDON: All right. For the record,
2 Your Honor, 470 is a clear plastic bag with the
3 number “122980” in white on the front of it. And
4 it’s been marked 470 for identification. I’ve shown
5 it to counsel.
6 MR. MESEREAU: Excuse me, Your Honor. Could
7 I ask that the prosecutor and the witness be
8 admonished to follow your order with respect to
9 describing the contents.
10 THE COURT: Yes.
11 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.
12 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to show you 470.
13 Recognize that.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. What is it.
16 A. This is the suitcase that held all the
17 pornography in it.
18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; move to strike.
19 THE COURT: It’s stricken. The pre-trial
20 order requires that you and the witness refer to
21 adult material as “adult material,” not the
23 MR. SNEDDON: Okay. I don’t even know –
24 THE COURT: There are a couple words that you
25 could use.
26 MR. SNEDDON: I’m not sure he would know any
27 of those words, but I’ll — could I have a second to
28 talk to him about it, then. I didn’t know that 1152
1 meant to the witness, because that would be me
2 telling him words, but — okay. Let me just….
3 (Whereupon, there was an off-the-record
4 discussion held between the witness and Mr.
6 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Where was that
7 exhibit the first time you saw it.
8 A. It was — it was in the downstairs, near the
9 bathtub that was like a Jacuzzi. It was near there.
10 Q. All right.
11 THE COURT: Just a minute, Counsel. I want
12 to tell the jury something about our last little
13 discussion, because I don’t want to leave this up in
14 the air like that.
15 The — the reason that the witness and the
16 attorneys are to refer to this material as “adult
17 material” – or there’s another word I used, I can’t
18 remember now – instead of “pornography,” is that
19 “pornography” really is a legal conclusion that the
20 trier of fact is the person who decides what the
21 nature of the material is.
22 So by having the witness and the attorneys
23 refer to it in a somewhat neutral time frame, it
24 stops any conclusions from being made that would
25 bias the jury. That’s the whole purpose.
26 Go ahead, Counsel.
27 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Who was with you when you
28 saw that suitcase for the first time. 1153
1 A. Me, my brother, Aldo, and Michael.
2 Q. The defendant.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And who — how was it that you were actually
5 shown that suitcase.
6 A. Uhh –
7 Q. Tell us what happened.
8 A. Just walked in the room and it was open. It
9 was — there used to be a couch right there.
10 Q. Yeah.
11 A. And — well, it wasn’t really a couch. It
12 was like a chair. And it was on there, and it was
14 Q. All right. And then what happened.
15 A. Michael just started to show us magazines.
16 Q. You say “show” you. Tell us what he did.
17 A. He handed them to us.
18 Q. All right. And did you look at them.
19 A. Yes, with him.
20 Q. And did you look at them one at a time or
21 did everybody have a different one at a different
22 time. How did it happen. Tell us what happened.
23 A. We all looked at them one at a time.
24 Q. Did anybody make any comments about
26 A. No.
27 Q. Do you remember how many of them you saw.
28 A. A couple. 1154
1 Q. How long was it that you were there going
2 through them.
3 A. I don’t know. Probably ten minutes.
4 Q. Now, when did that take place, when you saw
5 these for the first — that suitcase for the first
7 A. When.
8 Q. Yeah.
9 A. I think after the Calabasas hotel.
10 Q. Now, I have one other exhibit that is No. 86
11 marked for identification purposes.
12 Now, I’m going to show you this in just a
13 second, but I want to talk to you a little bit more.
14 Did you ever see that black suitcase that’s
15 been marked as People’s 470 before. After that,
16 after the time that you discussed –
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Where.
19 A. It was upstairs in his bed area.
20 Q. Where.
21 A. In his — where his bed was.
22 Q. And where in his bedroom.
23 A. Near the T.V.
24 Q. All right. And where were you.
25 A. What do you mean.
26 Q. Where were you in the bedroom.
27 A. On the bed.
28 Q. All right. Who was with you. 1155
1 A. Aldo, my brother and Michael.
2 Q. And where was the suitcase located. I mean,
3 how did — did you ever look at the suitcase, inside
4 of it.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. What happened.
7 A. There was adult material in there.
8 Q. All right. But how did it get opened.
9 A. Michael pulled it out.
10 Q. All right. Tell us what he did.
11 A. He picked it up, sat on the bed and opened
13 Q. And then what.
14 A. He pulled the magazine out and started
15 showing us.
16 Q. How many magazines do you think you saw that
18 A. Four. Three. I don’t know.
19 Q. Did you look through the entire magazines.
20 A. No. It was probably a section or something
21 like that.
22 Q. What did you see in the magazines.
23 A. Nude females.
24 Q. What.
25 A. Nude females.
26 Q. Do you remember the names of any of the
27 titles of the magazines that you saw.
28 A. “Barely Legal” and “Playboy.” 1156
1 Q. Were there others that you saw besides that,
2 or are those the only ones you saw.
3 A. Those are the only ones I remember.
4 Q. I’m going to show you a photograph marked as
5 People’s 86 for identification purposes.
6 And that’s — first of all, I’m going to
7 move that People’s 470 be admitted into evidence,
8 Your Honor.
9 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.
10 THE COURT: We’ll take that up separately.
11 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. People’s 86.
12 Do you recognize that.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of what it
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. All right. I’m going to ask you some
18 questions about People’s 86.
19 And put it on the board, Your Honor. I move
20 it be admitted into evidence.
21 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Foundation; and
22 authenticity and relevance.
23 THE COURT: On 86.
24 MR. SNEDDON: Yes. I asked him and he said
25 it accurately depicted the materials.
26 THE COURT: I’m not sure. I haven’t seen
27 the –
28 MR. SNEDDON: In your book, it’s No. 86, 1157
1 Your Honor –
2 THE COURT: Okay.
3 MR. SNEDDON: — in your photographs.
4 MR. MESEREAU: Also 352, Your Honor.
5 THE COURT: I don’t think that’s an adequate
6 foundation for that particular photograph, that it
7 accurately depicts what it is. You need a further
9 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Star, the materials that
10 are depicted in that photograph, People’s 86, do you
11 see those.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Do you recognize any of those.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Where do you recognize them from.
16 A. The black suitcase.
17 Q. And which time.
18 A. The first and second time.
19 Q. Does that photograph represent the items
20 that you saw with the defendant, Michael Jackson.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. In his bedroom and in his Jacuzzi, or in his
24 A. Yes.
25 MR. SNEDDON: I move it be admitted, Your
27 THE COURT: All right. That is an adequate
28 foundation. 1158
1 Your 352 was on what basis, Counsel.
2 MR. MESEREAU: He didn’t identify some of
3 what’s in that photograph, Your Honor, at all.
4 THE COURT: I found that the foundation is
5 adequate now. You had a 352 objection.
6 MR. MESEREAU: Yes.
7 THE COURT: What was that.
8 MR. MESEREAU: Well, basically because he
9 didn’t identify it, and because after describing
10 what he said was there, and then looking at the
11 photo and saying it accurately depicts it, he didn’t
12 identify everything, I think basically it’s
13 prejudicial and irrelevant.
14 THE COURT: All right. The probative value
15 exceeds the prejudicial –
16 THE DEFENDANT: I can’t hear.
17 THE COURT: It’s admitted.
18 THE DEFENDANT: I can’t hear you.
19 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, it’s a little hard
20 for Mr. Jackson to hear you.
21 THE DEFENDANT: Please speak up.
22 THE COURT: Yes. The probative value of
23 Exhibit 86 exceeds any prejudicial effects, and so
24 it’s admitted.
25 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you.
26 THE COURT: Sorry.
27 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Star, the exhibit that we
28 have on the board up there, the suitcase, and it’s 1159
1 open and displayed, are those among the items that
2 you saw with Mr. Jackson.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Do they represent the things that you saw
5 with him when he took the magazines out.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. All right. On the occasion that you saw the
8 materials from this suitcase that are depicted in
9 this photograph – okay. – who else was present.
10 A. My brother and Aldo, me, and Michael.
During pretrial hearings, the defense submitted multiple motions to request that Jackson’s pornography be referred to as “adult material” because of the overly prejudicial nature of the term “pornography”. On January 18th, 2005, the defense filed a motion titled “MR. JACKSON’S MOTION IN LIMINE TO PRECLUDE REFERENCE TO MATRIALS AS PORNOGRAPHIC AND ACCOMPANYING DOCUMENTS”, in which they requested the following:
Their basis for this request was the simple fact that the materials that were found at Neverland were never adjudicated as being “pornographic” or “obscene”; rather, they were ordinary, over the counter magazines and books that could be bought at a bookstore or checked out from a library. The use of the words “pornography” and “obscene” would be more prejudicial than probative. The following excerpt from page 6 accurately summarizes this motion:
There is no legitimate purpose for plaintiff to be permitted to refer to these books, magazines, photographs, and physical depictions of disrobed individuals as “pornography” or “obscenity”. The appeal to the jury’s emotions by using the term is illegitimate and an effort to “fool” jurors into believing the Court has sanctioned the view that ordinary books and magazines are contraband. Plaintiff’s improper legal conclusions should not be permitted because their probative value are far outweighed by their prejudicial effect.
On January 24th, 2005 the prosecution filed a motion titled PLAINTIFF’S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT’S IN LIMINE MOTION TO PRECLUDE REFERENCE TO HIS COLLECTION OF SEXUALLY EXPLICIT MATERIALS AS “PORNOGRAPHY”, in which they argued that the erotic material that was seized from Neverland was relevant because it was used to awaken the sexual interest of the Arvizo boys, and the other young boys that were abused by Jackson throughout the years. (Ironically, neither Jordan Chanlder nor Jason Francia ever claimed that they had been seduced with porn before being abused by Jackson!)
On January 26th, 2005 the defense filed “MR. JACKSON’S REPLY IN SUPPORT OF MOTION IN LIMINE TO PRECLUDE REFERENCE TO MATERIALS AS PORNOGRAPHIC AND ACCOMPANYING DOCUMENTS”, in which they argued the following:
Prior to the start of the trial, Judge Melville ruled in favor of the defense, and had to admonish the prosecution and some of their witnesses several times throughout the trial.
Star then goes on to describe an alleged incident where he witnessed Jackson simulate having sexual intercourse with a female mannequin, and when Jackson allegedly asked him if he ever masturbated:
9 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Hang onto that for just a
11 All right. Do you recognize the photograph
12 I’ve just handed you, which is People’s 153. Is
13 that the right number on it.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. All right. Do you recognize that.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of the — of
18 what it purports to represent.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. As you saw it when you were there.
21 A. Yes.
22 MR. SNEDDON: All right. I move that 153 be
23 admitted into evidence.
24 MR. MESEREAU: No objection, Your Honor.
25 THE COURT: It’s admitted.
26 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Star, would you
27 tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what 153
28 is. 1162
1 A. It’s a mannequin.
2 Q. And where was the mannequin located in the
3 room when you saw it.
4 A. To the corner.
5 Q. And with regard to this particular
6 mannequin, did you ever see anything, relative to
7 the defendant in this case, occur.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury
10 what you saw.
11 A. He was — one time — he was jerking around
12 and he grabbed the mannequin, and he was pretending
13 like he was having intercourse with it.
14 Q. And where did that occur.
15 A. On the bed. He was fully clothed. He was
16 acting like he was humping.
17 Q. I didn’t hear what you said.
18 A. He was acting like he was humping it.
19 Q. Now, who else was in the bedroom when this
21 A. Aldo, my brother and me.
22 Q. And do you remember how this — how it
23 started or what happened, or were there –
24 A. I don’t even remember. I’m sorry.
25 Q. Did the defendant say anything while he was
26 doing it.
27 A. He was laughing.
28 Q. And how long did the whole episode last. 1163
1 A. Probably five seconds.
2 Q. Okay. Do you want to put that down.
3 Star, did you — can you tell us whether or
4 not the topic of masturbation ever came up in any
5 conversations with the defendant.
6 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
7 THE COURT: Sustained.
8 MR. SNEDDON: Judge, “whether or not” makes
9 it an open-ended question. It doesn’t suggest the
10 answer. I don’t mean to argue with the Court, but I
11 mean –
12 MR. MESEREAU: It does not, Your Honor.
13 That’s leading.
14 THE COURT: Could you rephrase the question.
15 MR. SNEDDON: Yes, Your Honor. I can do
17 Q. Star, did you ever have any conversations
18 with the defendant about any other sexual matters.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. About what.
21 A. Masturbation.
22 Q. All right. Will you tell the ladies and
23 gentlemen of the jury –
24 A. I don’t know how the topic came about, but
25 he was asking me if I ever masturbated. And I said,
26 “No.” And he said –
27 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. There’s no
28 question pending. He just went off. 1164
1 THE COURT: Sustained.
2 MR. SNEDDON: I’ll frame one, Your Honor.
3 Q. Okay. So did you have a conversation.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. All right. Now, would you tell the ladies
6 and gentlemen of the jury, where was it.
7 A. It was — this was when another child was
8 here. His name was Rio.
9 Q. I can’t hear you.
10 A. This was in Michael’s bedroom.
11 Q. And who else was present, if anyone.
12 A. Rio, my brother, and that was it. And me.
13 Q. And to your knowledge, who is Rio.
14 A. I don’t know.
15 Q. Somebody you met at Mr. Jackson’s.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And do you recall when this was in terms of
18 before or after you went to Calabasas.
19 A. It was after.
20 Q. And do you recall whether it was in the
21 daytime or at nighttime.
22 A. Nighttime.
23 Q. All right. Would you tell us what was said,
24 what the defendant said.
25 A. He asked me if I masturbated. And I said,
26 “No.” He — he — then he said to me that,
27 “Everyone does it. You should try it. It’s okay,”
28 and all this stuff. 1165
1 Q. Were you the only one he asked that question
3 A. Yes. Well, yeah. Yes.
4 Q. And when you said, “No,” did he say anything
6 A. Yeah. He said, “It’s okay,” and “Everyone
7 does it,” and “You should try it.” That’s what he
9 Q. Was there anything else said besides that.
10 A. No.
Sneddon went on to ask Star about any additional times that Jackson allegedly served Star alcohol, and Star recounted an additional time when Jackson allegedly served it to him after the family’s return to Neverland from the Calabasas hotel:
11 Q. Do you — when you came back from
12 Calabasas –
13 A. Uh-huh.
14 Q. — okay. – till the time that you left -
15 all right. – where did you sleep.
16 A. In Michael’s room. And towards the end, I
17 slept in the guest unit.
18 Q. And was there any drinking that went on
19 during that period of time.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And who was drinking.
22 A. Mostly my brother and Michael.
23 Q. You say “mostly.” Did you drink.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. On the occasion that you were there with –
26 in the room with Mr. Jackson and your brother, and
27 this person that you know — is it Rio.
28 A. Yes. 1166
1 Q. — were you drinking then.
2 A. I think so.
3 Q. Do you remember what you were drinking.
4 A. Just wine.
Next, Sneddon asked if Star witnessed Jackson come into bed with him and his brother:
5 Q. Now, on the evenings after you came back
6 from Calabasas and until you stopped sleeping in
7 Mr. Jackson’s room, where did your brother sleep.
8 A. Michael’s room.
9 Q. During that period of time, was there an
10 incident where you saw Mr. Jackson come into bed
11 with you and your brother.
12 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
13 THE COURT: Overruled.
14 You may answer.
15 THE WITNESS: Yes. I was –
16 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Just — just — you can
17 only answer “Yes” or “No.”
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. All right. Now, you said there was an
20 incident. Where were you prior to the time that
21 Mr. Jackson came into the room.
22 A. Sleeping.
23 Q. Where.
24 A. On the bed.
25 Q. And where was your brother.
26 A. Right next to me.
27 Q. All right. We’ve seen that bed here in the
28 photographs. Okay. 1167
1 A. Okay.
2 Q. And when we’re looking straight at the bed
3 towards the back of the wall – okay. – where were
4 you located on the bed.
5 A. All the way to the right.
6 Q. And where was your brother.
7 A. In the middle.
8 Q. And were you under the covers.
9 A. Under the covers.
10 Q. Over the covers.
11 A. Under the covers.
12 Q. And how were you dressed.
13 A. In PJ’s.
14 Q. Do these PJ’s — describe them.
15 A. Sweat pants.
16 Q. I’m sorry.
17 A. Sweat pants and a shirt.
18 Q. All right. And do you recall what your
19 brother was wearing.
20 A. Not really.
21 Q. Now, did you see — tell us what happened.
22 A. I was sleeping. It was in the morning. And
23 I saw Michael come up, and I tried to say hi, but I
24 couldn’t. He got in bed. Started scooting over
25 closer and closer to my brother. And for a time he
26 didn’t stop until I moved, and then he stopped.
27 Q. And what happened when he heard you move.
28 A. He stopped. 1168
1 Q. Okay. Did you see whether or not he did
3 A. No. I was — no.
4 Q. Okay. Okay. Star, we’re almost done.
Sneddon then asks Star about a time when he witnessed Jackson masturbate his brother Gavin as he lay asleep, intoxicated from alcohol:
6 Now, some night when you were at — at the
7 ranch – all right. – did you go up to Mr. Jackson’s
8 bedroom by yourself.
9 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
10 THE COURT: Overruled.
11 THE WITNESS: Yes.
12 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Where had you been just
13 prior to that.
14 A. I was heading to the theater.
15 Q. Where.
16 A. I was heading to the theater.
17 Q. Why were you going to the theater.
18 A. To get some chocolate.
19 Q. How did you get down there.
20 A. The golf cart.
21 Q. Did you get some chocolate.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And what did you do when you came back.
24 A. I was heading to Michael’s room to go to
26 Q. All right. Would you tell the ladies and
27 gentlemen of the jury what you did when you got to
28 the house. 1169
1 A. Um, I went through the door.
2 Q. Which door.
3 A. The first door. The first door. And then
4 the second door, it was kind of — I don’t know, it
5 was, like, kind of locked. And so I pushed on it
6 till it opened, and then –
7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection, Your Honor. Could
8 we have a time. Vague as to time.
9 THE COURT: Overruled.
10 Go ahead.
11 THE WITNESS: So I went upstairs, and –
12 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Let’s go back. You were at
13 the door, and the door what.
14 A. The door was kind of locked, so I pushed it,
15 and it opened. So I went halfway to where the
16 computer table used to be, and I saw directly into
17 the bed. And I stopped. And my brother was outside
18 of the covers. And I saw Michael’s left hand in my
19 brother’s underwears and I saw his right hand in his
20 underwears, so — so I –
21 Q. Let’s just stop there for a second -
22 okay. –
23 A. Okay.
24 Q. — and ask you some questions.
25 Why were you coming back to the room that
26 night, after you’d gone down to get the chocolate.
27 A. To go to sleep.
28 Q. When you got to the point on the stairs 1170
1 where you saw your brother and Mr. Jackson on the
2 bed – okay. – when you’re looking at the bed, just
3 like we saw it on the photograph here – what side of
4 the bed was the defendant on.
5 A. Left side.
6 Q. And what side was your brother on.
7 A. Right side.
8 Q. And what position was Mr. Jackson in.
9 A. On his back. On his back.
10 Q. And what position was your brother in.
11 A. He was curled up, looking to the left. He
12 was curled up facing left.
13 Q. Now, would that be looking towards Mr.
14 Jackson or away from Mr. Jackson.
15 A. Away.
16 Q. Now, at that time, could you see what the
17 defendant was wearing.
18 A. Socks, underwears and an undershirt.
19 Q. Now, could you tell what kind of underwear
20 it was.
21 A. No.
22 Q. I mean — I’m sorry.
23 A. No.
24 Q. With regard to your brother, what was he
26 A. I can’t quite remember what he was wearing.
27 I’m not –
28 Q. Do you remember what you could see of him. 1171
1 Was there part of him that he didn’t have anything
3 A. Yeah, I know he had a shirt and — he had
4 his socks. I think he had pants or underwears on.
5 I don’t remember.
6 Q. All right. Now, you said you saw “his
7 hand.” Whose hands are you talking about.
8 A. Michael’s.
9 Q. All right. And where were his hands.
10 A. Left hand was in my brother’s pants and
11 right hand was in his pants.
12 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; asked and
14 THE COURT: Overruled. You may proceed.
15 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Now, when you say “in his
16 pants,” and who are you talking about.
17 A. Michael.
18 Q. All right. When you saw that, did you see
19 what, if anything, he was doing.
20 A. He was masturbating.
21 Q. What do you mean by that.
22 A. He was rubbing himself.
23 Q. And how could you tell that.
24 A. Because he had his hand in his pants. And
25 he was stroking up and down.
26 Q. Did you see anything else about the
27 defendant while he was doing that.
28 A. No. 1172
1 Q. What else did you see.
2 A. That’s all.
3 Q. Could you tell whether Mr. Jackson had his
4 eyes open or closed.
5 A. He had his eyes closed.
6 Q. Could you tell whether or not your brother
7 was asleep or not.
8 A. He was asleep.
9 Q. How do you know that.
10 A. Because he was kind of snoring.
11 Q. I can’t hear you. You’re going to have to
12 talk into that mike.
13 A. He was kind of snoring.
14 Q. Now, on this particular occasion, how long
15 did you stay there watching.
16 A. Couple seconds.
17 Q. Well, how long is that.
18 A. Four.
19 Q. What were the lighting conditions like in
20 the room.
21 A. The stairs were only lit, and the rest
22 was — nothing else was — had lights on. It was
23 just the stairs had lights.
24 Q. So you saw the photographs earlier that we
25 showed that had the lights on over the bed, correct.
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. Were those lights on or off.
28 A. Off. 1173
1 Q. When you looked into the room, did you see
2 any alcohol.
3 A. Um –
4 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
5 THE COURT: Overruled.
6 THE WITNESS: I don’t think so.
7 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: So what was your reaction
8 to what you saw.
9 A. I didn’t know what to do.
10 Q. I’m sorry.
11 A. I didn’t know what to do. I just went back
12 to the guest units where my sister was sleeping.
13 Q. What guest room did you stay in.
14 A. I don’t remember. But my sister was
15 sleeping in one guest room. And I went to the one
16 that she was in.
17 Q. Did you see anything like that occur on any
18 other occasion.
19 A. Yes, a second occasion.
20 Q. When.
21 A. It was probably just driving around; and
22 same thing.
23 Q. No, I meant in relationship to the first
24 one. How many days, if any, elapsed.
25 A. Two days.
26 Q. All right. Where were you that night.
27 A. Probably driving around in the golf cart.
28 And I came back — 1174
1 Q. Now, you say “probably.” Do you remember.
2 A. Not really what I was doing.
3 Q. Pardon.
4 A. I don’t really remember what I was doing.
5 Q. All right.
6 A. I’m not sure. Walking in, the door wasn’t
7 locked. The door was closed but it wasn’t locked.
8 I went upstairs. The same thing was happening, but
9 my brother was on his back as well.
10 Q. You say “the same thing was happening.”
11 Tell me what was happening.
12 A. My brother was asleep. Michael was
13 masturbating while he had his left hand in my
14 brother’s underwears.
15 Q. And what kind of underwear was your brother
17 A. I don’t know.
18 Q. Now, when you said you saw the defendant
19 masturbating, were the — where were they on the
20 bed. What were the positions of the people on the
21 bed on this occasion. If you’re looking at the bed,
22 who was on the left.
23 A. Michael.
24 Q. And who was on the right.
25 A. Gavin.
26 Q. And you said that you saw him masturbating
27 again. What did you actually see occurring.
28 A. What. 1175
1 Q. The defendant, what did you see him doing.
2 A. Masturbating. Stroking up and down.
3 Q. Where.
4 A. In — his thing. His private area.
5 Q. Could you see what the other hand was doing.
6 A. Moving. It was — I don’t know how to
7 explain it.
8 Q. Well, can you just show us what you saw.
9 A. It was going like that (Indicating).
10 Q. And that’s the hand that was where.
11 A. In my brother’s underwears.
12 Q. So just for the record, just sort of got a
13 fist and opening it up and sort of like that.
14 A. Yeah.
15 MR. SNEDDON: Doesn’t help any, does it.
16 Sort of like semi closing and opening the hand.
17 Q. And the second time, how long did you stay.
18 A. Three seconds. It was less than the first
20 Q. And where did you go.
21 A. Back to my sister’s guest unit.
22 Q. Did you ever tell your — let me — from the
23 point that you were — you went back to the guest
24 unit and you were still on the ranch, did you ever
25 tell your sister what you saw.
26 A. No.
27 Q. Who was the first person that you told what
28 you saw. 1176
1 A. Dr. Katz.
2 Q. You never told your mother.
3 A. No.
4 Q. Or your brother.
5 A. No.
6 Q. On the second occasion, what was Mr. Jackson
7 wearing, if anything.
8 A. Socks, underwears and an undershirt.
9 Q. And your brother.
10 A. Uhh –
11 Q. You already told us what’s on the bottom.
12 Was he wearing anything on the top.
13 A. Yes, he was wearing an undershirt.
14 Q. What.
15 A. Well, he was wearing a shirt.
16 Q. Where did you go to sleep that night, on the
17 second incident.
18 A. My sister’s guest unit.
Finally, Sneddon asked Star to describe the circumstances behind his family’s final exit from the ranch in March 2003, right before the court recessed for the day:
20 Q. Okay. Now, at this point, after this, did
21 you at some time eventually leave the ranch for the
22 last time.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And do you remember how many days or when it
25 was in relationship to this appointment that your
26 brother went to the doctor’s for.
27 A. I don’t know.
28 Q. Well, was it a long time, a short time, a — 1180
1 A. A short time. A short time.
2 Q. What makes you think that.
3 A. I don’t know. It was –
4 Q. Is that just a guess.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. All right. Take a minute and think about
8 A. I don’t know.
9 Q. All right. And how was it that you learned
10 that you were going to leave the ranch.
11 A. I heard from — I think it was from my
12 sister, that my grandfather was ill. Well, they
13 said my grandfather was ill, but he wasn’t.
14 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Narrative;
16 THE COURT: Sustained.
17 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Okay. You learned it from
19 A. I learned of it from my sister.
20 Q. All right. And what did you learn.
21 A. That my grandfather was ill.
22 Q. Was that true.
23 A. No.
24 Q. Did your sister tell you that.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. So when you heard that, then what did you
28 A. I thought he was ill, so I wanted to go 1181
2 Q. And did the three of you leave.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And how did you get from — from there to –
5 where did you go.
6 A. We went to our grandma’s house.
7 Q. Did you ever go back to the ranch after
9 A. Never.
10 Q. And who was it that left that day.
11 A. Left home.
12 Q. Who was with you when you left.
13 A. My brother, sister and me.
14 MR. SNEDDON: Judge, I have about five more
15 minutes. I don’t know if you want to keep going or
16 you want to –
17 THE COURT: No.
18 MR. SNEDDON: Okay.
19 THE COURT: It’s 2:30. We’ll end the session
21 I want to tell you, tomorrow, remember,
22 we’re going to have a shorter session. We’re going
23 to start at 8:30, and we’re going to end at 11:30.
24 I’ll tell you that so that you can make your plans
25 for tomorrow. I was a little vague about when we
26 were going to end last week, but I think the best
27 time is at our normal break, and we’ll just end for
28 the morning. And then we’ll start again on 1182
1 Wednesday with the regular schedule.
2 See you tomorrow. Remember the admonition.
3 (The proceedings adjourned at 2:30 p.m.)
Star’s cross examination begins in the next post in this series! Open this link: