Jason Francia was interviewed by detectives on November 4^th, 1993 and March 24^th, 1994 because they were fishing for victims, and they were able to successfully cajole him into making an accusation that MJ tickled him under his shorts on several occasions. He was going to be used by cops to bolster their case, but as we all know MJ was never indicted. In December 1994, Blanca Francia and her lawyers threatened to sue MJ over his alleged molestation, and MJ settled out of court with them before they filed their lawsuit.

Before I start analyzing Jason’s testimony, let’s look at what William Wagener had to say about his chance meeting with Jason before the trial started, beginning at 5:48:

Here is my complete summary and analysis Jason Francia’s testimony from April 4^th and 5^th, 2005, starting with his direct examination by Ron Zonen. In this excerpt, Jason talks about his time as a “youth pastor”:

7 Q. Okay. Let‟s go to the mentoring program.

8 Who do you work for in the mentoring program?

9 A. Pete Taylor. It‟s through a church that I

10 belong to, but yet it‟s still its kind of own

11 identity. It‟s Foursquare Youth Programs. That‟s

12 the official title.

13 Q. And the nature of the work, by “mentoring,”

14 what do you mean?

15 A. I‟m the lead mentor. And the ultimate goal

16 is, let me see, the probation department kind of

17 says these kids need to be mentored. They needed to

18 go through three programs. Sometimes community

19 service or community service, mentoring, or some

20 sort of jobs program or something else. And I‟m one

21 of their steps to get off of probation.

22 So what we try to do is match them up with a

23 mentor, and that‟s my job, to try to match them up

24 with mentors. And I take them out the first and

25 third Saturdays of every month and we try — just

26 hang out with them and show them that there‟s

27 something more to life than crime, or than ditching,

28 or than partying, or than drugs, or than anything 4807

1 else. There‟s more to life. We show them there‟s

2 Frisbee golf. I‟ve showed the guys how to change

3 the oil and change a tire.

4 My wife is helping. And she shows them how

5 to cook, make purses with the girls and –

6 Q. You‟ve been doing this for how long?

7 A. I‟ve been doing this, this exact job, for

8 about six months. This type of work for probably

9 since I was 18.

10 Q. Okay. When you were 18, did you start some

11 kind of an internship program dealing with this?

12 A. Yeah, I have started an internship with

13 Santa Maria Foursquare Church. Was — and was

14 pretty much training to be — to work with junior

15 high, to high school, to college-aged people. And I

16 just — I — I wanted to be trained in that, because

17 I have a passion for that, so I started that. I did

18 that for about two and a half years with Santa Maria

19 Foursquare Church.

20 Q. Did you ever work as a youth pastor?

21 A. Yeah. I did that in 2003 to 2004, from my

22 understanding. I can‟t really remember right now.

23 I‟m kind of nervous, just to let you guys know.

24 Q. That‟s okay. What is a youth pastor?

25 A. Well, I was a youth pastor. That was, I

26 guess, my official title. But I worked with

27 13-year-olds to 25- or 26-year-olds. And pretty

28 much — it‟s kind of like its own little church 4808

1 within a church. And you work with junior high and

2 high schoolers. And then what I try to do is

3 address the collegers in a different format. And

4 then I‟ve had the college students help me with the

5 junior highers and high schoolers. So just talk

6 about ethics, God, morals, and doing good.

7 Q. You‟ve been doing htis consistently since

8 age 18?

9 A. Yeah, pretty much.

10 Q. Tell us which church this is again, please.

11 A. The one I was a youth pastor, I did that

12 through Oceano Foursquare. It was really known as

13 Kings Way a long time ago. But pretty much Oceano

14 Foursquare.

In this excerpt, Zonen asks Jason if he ever slept in MJ’s bedroom, and pay attention to his answer:

18 Q. Did you ever spend the night at Neverland?

19 A. Yes. With — yeah, I remember distinctly,

20 because I think I was hearing bats or something, on

21 the ranch, or something, and I couldn‟t sleep, so –

22 but I was sleeping with my mom, like in the same

23 room, in the same area with my mom, and, yeah. I

24 couldn‟t sleep.

25 Q. Were you ever in Michael Jackson‟s bedroom?

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. On how many occasions?

28 A. Two, I think. Two. I‟m pretty sure. 4816

1 Once — one I know for sure, because we were

2 all laying in the bed watching T.V.

3 Q. And who is “we were all”?

4 A. Michael and a bunch of other kids.

5 Q. Okay. Do you know how many?

6 A. I don‟t. Seven. Six. But I don‟t — I

7 don‟t.

8 Q. Do you know any of the names?

9 A. I‟m really bad at names. Even to this day.

It was very typical for MJ to have people – both children and adults – in his bedroom until the wee hours of the morning, watching TV while lying in his bed. This is something that Debbie Rowe mentioned in this interview from 2002 which was part of MJ’s rebuttal to the Martin Bashir deception, starting at 2:55:

In this excerpt, Jason describes the first time that he was “molested”:

24 Was there ever an occasion that you were

25 with Michael Jackson where something happened that

26 made you feel uncomfortable?

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Did that happen more than once? 4817

1 A. Yeah.

2 Q. Do you have a recollection of these events?

3 A. Yeah.

4 Q. Let‟s begin with the first one. What

5 happened?

6 A. Okay. Well, the first time that I felt

7 uncomfortable with him was in the hideout, which is

8 the place in Encino — not in Encino, I‟m sorry. In

9 Hollywood. And — shoot. I was seven and – I

10 don‟t know, at seven years old, I don‟t think –

11 okay. I may have not felt uncomfortable, but then

12 now I think about it, that shouldn‟t have been done.

13 But I didn‟t feel uncomfortable.

14 Q. What happened?

15 A. I was sitting on his lap, and I was young,

16 and I was small. I‟m still thin. I was even

17 thinner then. Sitting on his lap, watching T.V.,

18 which that‟s normal enough in itself. And then

19 we — I was kind of facing the T.V., and he was

20 facing the T.V. as well, so my back was to his

21 chest. And it was — there was just one chair, and

22 there wasn‟t much furniture in that hideout place.

23 And I was just sitting there watching T.V., and so

24 was he. I think we were watching cartoons. And he

25 just started tickling me, which, cool, shoot, I was

26 a tickle guy. I tickled him back, but still kind of

27 from the back, kind of reaching around.

28 And then we went to the floor, I think, but 4818

1 I can‟t completely remember right now. But we

2 somehow got on the floor, tickling still, because

3 I‟m doing what — these little kid things, you know,

4 when you shimmy back and forth.

5 And then I‟m tickling and he‟s tickling, and

6 I‟m tickling and he‟s tickling, and it eventually

7 moved down to — to — to my little private region

8 when you‟re a little kid. I don‟t know if you want

9 me to call it specifically something, but around my

10 crotch area. And I didn‟t — you know, you‟re

11 seven. I didn‟t think it was wrong. Well, I did.

12 Because he‟s tickling, but I‟m laughing, and I‟m

13 tickling him back, trying to get him to stop, but

14 then I‟m tickling too much. I‟m laughing too much.

15 And eventually it stopped. I don‟t know how.

16 Q. Did he actually make contact with your

17 genital area?

18 A. Not skin to skin, but, yeah. Yeah, he was

19 on my clothes, yeah.

20 Q. Do you know for approximately how long?

21 A. Distinctly I can‟t remember. It was a

22 while, though.

23 Q. By a little while, can you give us a sense

24 of it?

25 A. More than three minutes, less than 20. Less

26 than ten minutes, I think.

27 Q. Okay.

28 A. But a while. It was — it was tickling. It 4819

1 didn‟t end soon. It didn‟t end fast.

2 Q. But the amount of time that his hand was

3 actually in the region of your genitalia?

4 A. I cannot remember.

Here is his description of the second time he was abused:

12 Q. Was there another instance?

13 A. Yeah.

14 Q. Was that also at the hideout?

15 A. Yeah.

16 Q. Tell us what happened, please.

17 A. I was watching cartoons again, and probably

18 in the same room, because I think there was only one

19 room in that whole place.

20 And we somehow — I was somehow — there was

21 a sleeping bag involved. I don‟t know — I think I

22 was on top of it. And I was watching T.V., laying

23 down on the ground, and Michael was pretty much

24 behind me, like spooning me. I don‟t know how we

25 got there. I was like eight, eight and a half. It

26 was a little while after. And again with the

27 tickling. But this time it wasn‟t as long, and I

28 was — well, I‟m sorry. It was longer, but I wasn‟t 4821

1 laughing as much, I guess.

Listen to him describe how long the “abuse” lasted! Look at what he uses as a frame of reference to judge the length of the abuse!

5 Q. Was it — were you aware of it happening

6 while it was happening?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Okay.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And how long was his hand there?

11 A. Two cartoons‟ worth. A cartoon and a half

12 worth.

13 Q. And you were watching cartoons on television

14 at the time?

15 A. Yeah.

16 Q. How long is a cartoon? It‟s been a while

17 since I‟ve seen one.

18 A. It‟s been a while for me, too.

19 Does anybody here watch cartoons?

20 Q. Tell us the best of your recollection. We

21 can‟t let them be witnesses at the moment.

22 A. A “Woody Woodpecker” I guess would last

23 four, five minutes.

24 Q. Okay.

25 A. Five, six minutes.

26 Q. So the contact in the area of your genitalia

27 was at least four or five minutes?

28 A. Yeah. 4827

Ok, now here’s the third and last time he claims he was abused, and notice how he asks for a short break so he can compose himself and cry his crocodile tears!

8 Q. Were there ever any other occasions, whether

9 in Los Angeles or any other occasion or any other

10 location where something happened that made you feel

11 uncomfortable?

12 A. Yeah.

13 Q. And where was that?

14 A. At the ranch.

15 Q. Do you remember how old you were?

16 A. Ten and a half, ten. I was older.

17 Q. And you have a recollection of this event?

18 A. Yeah.

19 Q. There‟s water there also, if you need

20 anything.

21 A. Oh, I was wondering. I thought it was

22 coffee. I was hoping it wasn‟t.

23 Q. No, it‟s water. And feel free to take some

24 if you need some.

25 A. Okay.

26 Q. You think you were about ten or ten and a

27 half?

28 A. Yeah. 4829

1 Q. It was prior to the time that your mother

2 quit her job there?

3 A. Yeah.

4 Q. Did you ever go back to Neverland after your

5 mother quit her job there?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Do you remember where this event took place,

8 where at Neverland?

9 A. What, the event?

10 Q. That made you feel uncomfortable.

11 A. Yeah. It was in the arcade room. There was

12 a loft area.

13 Q. Describe what the arcade is.

14 A. A place where there‟s a bunch of video

15 games, and there was a pool table, and I think there

16 was a fireplace. I think that was up in the loft.

17 I think. That was a long time ago. But, yeah, it‟s

18 Street Fighter, the original one, in there, and

19 pool tables, and a couple of other video games.

20 Q. On what part of the arcade were you at the

21 time this happened?

22 A. I was in the loft.

23 Q. Upstairs?

24 A. Yeah.

25 Q. Was anybody else up there with you?

26 A. No.

27 Q. Was Mr. Jackson there?

28 A. Yeah. 4830

1 Q. By “other people,” I mean other people than

2 you and Mr. Jackson.

3 A. It was just him and I.

4 Q. Do you recall approximately what time of day

5 or evening it was?

6 A. No. Nighttime.

7 Q. Was your mother working that day?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Were there ever occasions when you were at

10 Neverland and your mother wasn‟t working?

11 A. Yeah, when we‟d have parties and stuff, but

12 I think she‟d still work, because she‟d always walk

13 around cleaning even though she wasn‟t dressed for

14 it.

15 Q. Were there ever occasions when you were at

16 Neverland and your mother was not there?

17 A. No, she was always there.

18 Q. On this occasion, was your mother in the

19 arcade?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Was she working that day?

22 A. Probably.

23 Q. Do you remember where her assignment would

24 have taken her? Did she go to specific locations?

25 A. In the ranch?

26 Q. Yes.

27 A. At the ranch area. She was cleaning

28 everything. 4831

1 Q. Okay.

2 A. She wasn‟t in the arcade.

3 Q. Okay. And what happened when you were in

4 the arcade.

5 A. In the loft?

6 Q. Yes, please.

7 A. I think I was playing Sega Genesis.

8 Q. Tell us what that is, please.

9 A. It‟s — it‟s a video game. I was just a

10 video-game-playing kid.

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. There was a video game. There was a T.V. up

13 there, I believe. It was a really big T.V., and I

14 was playing, and then he started tickling me, and I

15 think there was — there was a couch up there,

16 because we somehow managed to end up on the couch.

17 It took a lot of counseling to get over,

18 just to let you know.

19 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Move to strike;

20 nonresponsive.

21 THE WITNESS: I‟m sorry.

22 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Let‟s see if we can restrict

23 our answers just to the questions, if we can. I‟ll

24 ask you some questions about that later.

25 You were on the couch. Do you know if both

26 of you were sitting on the couch?

27 A. Hold on.

28 We were laying down on the couch. 4832

1 Q. Okay. How were you laying down? How were

2 you positioned relative to Mr. Jackson?

3 A. Probably about — no, it was in the spooning

4 position again.

5 Q. Okay. Was he behind you or in front of you?

6 A. Behind me.

7 Q. And then what happened?

8 A. We were tickling — well, he was tickling

9 and I was laughing. And — and — and we — it

10 was — he was — he was tickling me in the….

11 So much happening right now. Can we take a

12 break or something?

13 MR. ZONEN: Can we take just a moment, Your

14 Honor?

15 THE COURT: Okay. Sure.

16 MR. ZONEN: Just a break for a moment or

17 two?

In this excerpt, Jason is asked if he ever told anyone about his abuse at the hands of Michael Jackson:

11 Q. Did you tell anybody about that right

12 afterward?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Did you tell your mother, ever?

15 A. No. I don‟t even think to this day she

16 knows.

17 Q. All right. At some point in time this

18 became known to somebody; is that right?

19 A. Yeah.

20 Q. Who did you tell? Who was the first person

21 you told about it?

22 A. Probably God. But –

23 Q. Let‟s go to number two, then. Who was the

24 second person?

25 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike that comment,

26 Your Honor. Nonresponsive.

27 THE COURT: Well, it‟s responsive.

28 Overruled. Go ahead. 4835

1 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Who else did you –

2 A. Who did I tell? I forgot their names, but

3 there was two detectives. Yeah, I told those two

4 guys.

5 Q. Before or after your mother had quit her

6 position at Neverland?

7 A. She had already quit.

Here is where he describes how the detectives picked him up from school one day and tape recorded their interview with him:

8 Q. All right. At some point in time police

9 came to you and said they wanted to talk to you; is

10 that right?

11 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

12 THE WITNESS: This is going to be hard for

13 me to get through. Sorry.

14 THE COURT: Okay. The objection is

15 overruled.

16 You may answer.

17 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Go ahead.

18 A. Yeah, they wanted to come and talk to me.

19 I was 13. I was in eighth grade, I think. Yeah.

20 I — yeah.

21 Q. Around 1993?

22 A. Yeah. It was „93, I think, yeah.

23 Q. Did you know in advance that they wanted to

24 speak with you?

25 A. No. Not until the big day that this

26 crappiness started.

27 Q. Okay. At some point in time, they showed

28 up? 4836

1 A. Yeah. They showed up probably around 4:00,

2 because I had judo practice at, like, 6:00.

3 Q. So it was about — I‟m sorry, you had judo

4 practice afterward?

5 A. Yeah, I had to go to judo practice right

6 after, and I don‟t think I went because I was

7 crying.

8 Q. So you think it was about four o‟clock in

9 the afternoon?

10 A. I think they came around four o‟clock.

11 Q. Do you remember how many people came?

12 A. I think two. But I don‟t remember.

13 Q. Was your mother present during the course of

14 that interview?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Do you know if that interview was

17 tape-recorded?

18 A. Yeah, it was tape-recorded because I

19 listened to the tapes.

20 Q. You listened to it recently?

21 A. Yeah.

22 Q. Do you know if a transcription had ever been

23 prepared of that interview?

24 A. A trans — yeah, it has been.

25 Q. And did you, in fact, review that

26 transcription as well?

27 A. Yeah. While I was reading it, yeah.

As you can see, he read the transcript of his 1993 police interview before giving his testimony. In this excerpt, he states the names of the two lawyers who represented him in 1994, the fact that he was never deposed in the Jordan Chandler investigation, and how he never filed a lawsuit against MJ because he received a settlement.

14 Q. At some point in time, did you have an

15 interview or were you represented by a private

16 lawyer?

17 A. At some point, yeah, in time I was.

18 Q. Do you remember the name of that lawyer?

19 A. Yeah, Terry — Terry Cannon. And Kris

20 Kallman.

21 Q. There were two lawyers who represented you?

22 A. Yeah.

23 Q. Do you know if — was this after this

24 interview?

25 A. Yes, it was after this interview. It was

26 like two months after this interview, I think.

27 Q. Were you ever called for a deposition?

28 A. I was never called for a deposition. 4841

1 Q. Did you ever know a young man by the name of

2 Jordan Chandler, or Jordie Chandler?

3 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; relevance.

4 THE WITNESS: Did I –

5 MR. MESEREAU: Relevance; foundation; move

6 to strike.

7 THE COURT: Overruled.

8 You may answer.

9 THE WITNESS: Did I ever meet him?

10 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Yes.

11 A. I probably did, but I — I don‟t remember

12 names. I‟m really bad with names. And I‟m not –

13 Q. Do you know if you were being prepared at

14 any time to give a deposition in a case involving

15 Mr. Chandler?

16 A. No. What — prepared by — I don‟t know

17 what you mean by “prepared.”

18 Q. Did your attorneys ever talk to you about

19 the possibility of your going in and giving a

20 deposition?

21 A. No. I don‟t think so. I don‟t remember.

22 Q. At some point in time, was there a

23 settlement of some kind of a case involving you and

24 Mr. Jackson? We‟re not going to get into the

25 specifics of the amounts, but was there a

26 settlement?

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Do you know if a lawsuit was ever actually 4842

1 filed?

2 A. No. I don‟t think so, no. Because there

3 was a settlement, so there was no lawsuit.

Here is Jason’s description of the intense 5 years of “counseling” that he needed to overcome his “traumatic” experiences! (From age 13 to 18!)

11 Q. Okay. Was — did you go into counseling at

12 this time?

13 A. Yeah.

14 Q. And –

15 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; relevance.

16 THE WITNESS: Oh, I‟m sorry.

17 MR. ZONEN: I think it‟s relevant.

18 MR. MESEREAU: And leading.

19 THE COURT: I‟ll allow the question. The

20 question and answer was, “Yes.”

21 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: For what period of time did

22 you stay in counseling?

23 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Relevance; 352.

24 MR. ZONEN: I believe it‟s appropriate under

25 People vs. Bledsoe and Shirley.

26 THE COURT: Go ahead. I‟ll allow the

27 question.

28 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: For what period of time did 4843

1 you stay in counseling?

2 A. Shoot, like a week after the sheriffs

3 interviewing me, or police, or whoever they were.

4 And –

5 Q. That‟s when it started?

6 A. Till I was 18, yeah.

7 Q. Till you were 18?

8 A. Yeah.

That’s the end of his direct examination; now unto the cross examination by Mesereau! This is when it gets really entertaining! You’re about to see why the some of the jurors laughed at him during their break!

First, Mesereau asks Jason when did he learn that his mother Blanca was paid $20k for her Hard Copy interview, and he didn’t know about it until two days prior to testifying!

28 Q. Okay. Now, the prosecutor mentioned the 4846

1 fact that your mother, at one point many years ago,

2 went on the television show Hard Copy, right?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. And at some point you learned about that,

5 right?

6 A. At some point I learned about what?

7 Q. Your mom going on the television show Hard

8 Copy?

9 A. At some point I learned about it, yes.

10 Q. Okay. And at some point you learned that

11 she took $20,000 to go on the T.V. show Hard Copy,

12 correct?

13 A. No.

14 Q. You don‟t know anything about that?

15 A. I do not.

16 Q. You‟ve never heard that to date?

17 A. I have heard of it today.

18 Q. When did you first learn that your mother

19 have gone on the T.V. show Hard Copy and accepted

20 $20,000?

21 A. Right now. Well, it may actually — two

22 days ago, I think.

Here’s where he is asked when he told his lawyers about being molested by MJ, and he says he doesn’t think he did!

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: When did you first, if you

10 remember, talk to a lawyer about anything Mr.

11 Jackson allegedly did?

12 A. What he — when did I tell somebody or tell

13 the lawyer? Repeat that.

14 Q. Yeah, when did you first meet a lawyer to

15 talk about your claim regarding Mr. Jackson‟s

16 behavior?

17 A. I don‟t remember.

18 Q. Do you know approximately when it was?

19 A. I think the only — I don‟t think I ever

20 told Terry or Kris if he molested me or not.

Here is where he has trouble remembering the two lawyers he mentioned under direct examination with Zonen, and then he magically remembers telling them of his abuse!

21 Q. Okay. Now, Terry is who?

22 A. Terry?

23 Q. Terry is the lawyer?

24 A. Terry is a lawyer.

25 Q. That‟s Terry Cannon, correct?

26 A. Correct.

27 Q. And Kris is who?

28 A. Kris — I forgot his last name. He‟s a 4850

1 lawyer.

2 Q. You mentioned him in response to the

3 prosecutor‟s questions. Didn‟t you say Kris was a

4 lawyer?

5 A. I don‟t remember the prosecutor‟s questions.

6 Q. Do you have a lawyer named Kris?

7 A. Right now? No.

8 Q. Have you ever had a lawyer named Kris?

9 A. I believe so.

10 Q. And do you know Kris‟s last name?

11 A. That‟s what I just said. I don‟t remember.

12 Q. Okay. Now, did I hear you just say you

13 never told either lawyer that you had been molested?

14 A. I don‟t — I‟m sorry?

15 Q. Did I hear you just say that you never told

16 either lawyer you‟d been molested?

17 A. I said I didn‟t know. That‟s what I said.

18 Q. You told the lawyers you didn‟t know?

19 A. No, I told you I didn‟t know.

20 Q. You told me you didn‟t know whether or not

21 you had told any lawyer you‟d been molested, right?

22 A. Not any lawyer.

23 Q. Okay. I‟m not understanding you.

24 A. I‟m not understanding you either.

25 Q. Let me rephrase the question.

26 A. Okay.

27 Q. Did you ever tell Attorney Terry Cannon

28 you‟d been molested? 4851

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And did you ever tell Attorney Kris you‟d

3 been molested?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Okay. Approximately when did you do that?

6 A. I don‟t remember. I was young.

7 Q. Do you know approximately what year it would

8 have been?

9 A. I‟d go with „94 or „93 or „95.

In this excerpt, he admits that he told his mother Blanca about being molested at age 14 or 15, while he was in “counseling”, and admits that he spoke too quickly when he denied ever telling her under Zonen’s direct examination:

23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Are you telling the jury

24 that at some point — excuse me. Let me start

25 again.

26 As of today, you‟re telling this jury you‟ve

27 never told your mother what you claim Mr. Jackson

28 did to you, right? 4852

1 A. I believe in counseling. I never told her

2 specifics on — that I was molested, but I did in

3 counseling tell her that I was molested.

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. But it was in — shoot. It was a crying

6 time for –

7 Q. Okay. I‟m not asking you about the details.

8 Just answer my questions.

9 A. It was just hard for me to remember because

10 I was crying.

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. So — I was young, and I was 14 or 15.

13 Q. So when you told the jury earlier that you

14 never told your mother about this, that wasn‟t true,

15 right?

16 A. I‟m sorry, I probably spoke quickly.

27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Let me rephrase it.

28 When you told the jury, in response to the 4853

1 prosecutor‟s questions, that you had never told your

2 mother you were molested, that wasn‟t true, right?

3 A. I was mistaken.

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. Yeah.

6 Q. Okay. In fact, you had told your mother

7 that you were molested, right?

8 A. Yeah, I must have misunderstood his question

9 with the — with the details of it. I never told my

10 mom that I was molested three times by Michael

11 Jackson. My mom, I don‟t even think to this day,

12 knows that I was molested three times and the

13 specifics of it. If she does, then she does, and

14 that sucks.

In this excerpt, Jason says he didn’t tell his mom about his abuse before she did Hard Copy, and when he describes how sheriffs just “came one day and surprised him” at school, the jury laughs, and is scolded by Judge Melville. (Don’t confuse this incident with the other incident of them laughing directly at Jason’s testimony during a court break.)

23 Q. Are you telling the jury that before your

24 mother went on Hard Copy, you never discussed what

25 you claim Mr. Jackson did to you with your mother?

26 A. Yeah, I‟m pretty sure that I never told my

27 mom that he molested me before Hard Copy.

28 Q. And before sheriffs came to talk to you for 4854

1 the first time, had you told anyone that you had

2 been molested by Michael Jackson?

3 A. I don‟t think so, no.

4 Q. They just kind of came one day and surprised

5 you?

6 (Laughter.)

7 A. Yeah.

8 THE COURT: Just a moment, Counsel.

9 (To the audience) I‟m not going to put up

10 with that.

11 THE WITNESS: Thanks.

12 THE COURT: If there‟s any laughing again,

13 I‟ll remove people from the courtroom.

14 Go ahead, Counsel.

Let’s stop for a moment and dwell on this important fact: Jason and Blanca Francia didn’t go to the police with their accusations; the police “just kind of came one day and surprised” Jason because they were looking for any “victims” that would bolster their case against MJ! And as you’ll see later on, they bullied Jason into making a false confession!

A few days before testifying, Jason met with prosecutors to review a transcript of his November 1993 interview with police:

18 Q. You have reviewed the tape and transcript of

19 your first interview with the sheriffs, correct?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And when did you review that interview?

22 A. Like when did I listen to the tapes again?

23 Is that what you‟re asking?

24 Q. Yes.

25 A. Sunday.

26 Q. And how did you get the tape?

27 A. Chris – I don‟t know his last name – gave

28 them to me. 4855

1 Q. Is that the lawyer?

2 A. No. He‟s not a lawyer, I don‟t think.

3 Q. Is he a sheriff?

4 A. It‟s a tall man.

5 Q. Is he a sheriff?

6 A. I don‟t know. I believe so.

7 Q. How did you run into him?

8 A. I met him when I met all these gentlemen.

9 Q. The prosecutors?

10 A. Correct.

11 Q. Okay. So Chris was with the prosecutors

12 when you met them last, right?

13 A. I‟m sorry?

14 Q. Chris was with the prosecutors when you

15 spoke to the prosecutors, correct?

16 A. Yes.

It seems Zonen tried to prepare Jason for his testimony by having him review the transcript of his 1993 interview with Detectives Russell Birchim and Vince Neglia!

9 Q. Okay. Okay. Now, did someone tell you to

10 review that transcript before you testified?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Who told you to review that transcript

13 before you testified?

14 A. I‟m under some pressure. Mark — it‟s not

15 Mark. It‟s Russ. I‟m so bad with names.

16 Q. Is it Prosecutor Zonen, who just asked you

17 questions?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Okay. Okay. Did he tell you you‟d be asked

20 questions about that?

21 A. About –

22 Q. What you said in that interview in 1993?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Okay. Did he tell you to study it carefully

25 and make sure you knew what you said and didn‟t say,

26 right?

27 A. Actually, he didn‟t say, “Study it

28 carefully.” 4859

1 Q. Did he tell you to read it?

2 A. He told me to review it.

Here’s where it starts getting hysterical! Jason told police in 1993 that he “blacked out” during his abuse!

16 Q. In that interview, you told the police you

17 were sitting on Mr. Jackson‟s lap, correct?

18 A. In the „93 11 — is that this one that

19 you‟re reviewing right now?

20 Q. Yes.

21 A. The one you showed me? Yes.

22 Q. Yes. And you told them that at one point,

23 he started tickling you and you started tickling

24 him, right?

25 A. Yeah.

26 Q. And then you told the police, “I have this

27 blackout. I can‟t remember anything else,” right?

28 A. Yeah. I — I tried to black everything out. 4861

1 Q. I understand. But I just want to go forward

2 and ask you some questions about it.

3 A. Oh, okay.

4 Q. But on that particular date, you told the

5 police that you had blacked everything out after you

6 and Mr. Jackson started tickling, right, tickling

7 each other, correct?

8 A. Yeah.

Ok, now prepare to roll on the floor and start laughing! Jason told police that he “has to work on that” when he was asked by police to explain what happened! What on earth would he have to “work on” if he was telling the truth?

14 Q. Well, you told the police you had a blackout

15 and didn‟t remember anything after — after you and

16 Mr. Jackson were tickling each other, right?

17 A. I blocked it out. I didn‟t blank it out.

18 I just didn‟t never want to repeat that stuff again.

19 Q. Okay. Do you remember, in one of your

20 police interviews, the police telling you, “This is

21 what happened, right?” And you said, “Well, I‟ll

22 have to work on that”? Do you remember using words

23 like that?

24 A. No.

25 Q. Okay. Have you looked at the transcripts of

26 both your police interviews?

27 A. No.

28 Q. Okay. Just looked at the one in „93? 4863

1 A. I believe so.

In this excerpt, Mesereau reminds Jason of what he initially told police, which was a flat out denial of any abuse at the hands of MJ! Jason said that he said that to police because he was “fighting with everything he had”, which indicates that they were harassing him into a confession!

11 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Early in your interviews,

12 you denied being touched in your private areas,

13 didn‟t you?

14 A. Yeah. I was scared.

15 Q. They were pretty long interviews, weren‟t

16 they?

17 A. I believe so. Yeah, they were. They were

18 long in my time. To a kid, an hour‟s a long time.

19 Q. Do you remember in your first police

20 interview in 1993 telling the police, “I‟ll just say

21 this out flat. I don‟t remember him trying anything

22 with me except for the tickling”? Do you remember

23 that?

24 A. Do I remember saying that?

25 Q. Yes.

26 A. No. But I‟ve heard that on the voice.

27 Yeah, I was fighting them with everything I had.

In this excerpt, Mesereau reads to Jason his quotes from 1993 about the tickling games that he and MJ played on each other, and notice how he said they tickled each other! Jason also admits to denying any molestation early in the interview, but then admitting it after the police “twisted his arm” for it!

26 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember telling

27 the police in that interview, “We started tickling

28 each other and my mom just grabbed me and, „Let‟s 4867

1 go‟”?

2 A. I don‟t remember.

3 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

4 show you a page of it?

5 A. Probably would.

6 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

7 THE COURT: You may.

8 MR. ZONEN: What page?

9 MR. MESEREAU: It would be page 26.

10 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.

11 THE WITNESS: Okay. I see that.

12 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

13 look at that? Does it refresh your recollection

14 about what you told the police in that interview?

15 A. No, not really.

16 Q. Well, on a number of occasions, you told

17 them, “We tickled each other and then I left,”

18 didn‟t you, words to that effect?

19 A. Yeah. Again, I was fighting with everything

20 I had.

21 Q. I‟m not asking you what you were doing. I‟m

22 just asking if that‟s true, okay? On a number of

23 occasions, you said, “We just tickled each other and

24 then I left,” right?

25 A. Okay.

26 Q. Is that correct?

27 A. Yes. And then I also told them that he

28 molested me. 4868

1 Q. On many occasions in that interview you

2 denied being molested, didn‟t you?

3 A. Yeah, at first.

4 Q. And the police kept leaning on you to admit

5 you had been molested, true?

6 A. It wasn‟t like a twisting the arm. It

7 was — I was again fighting. I didn‟t want to be

8 embarrassed at school. I didn‟t want to be

9 embarrassed anywhere. I was 13.

10 Q. So you were lying to the police?

11 A. Yeah. I was at first.

Jason also denied that MJ was “touchy-feely”:

20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember in that

21 interview being asked, “Is Mr. Jackson

22 touchy-feely?” And you said, “I don‟t remember.

23 I distinctly don‟t remember”?

24 A. I don‟t remember that interview.

25 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

26 you that page?

27 A. If you show me the page, I‟m still not going

28 to remember. 4869

1 Q. Well, you‟ve –

2 A. I could — if it says on the transcript,

3 then I‟ll say, okay, I said it when I was younger.

4 But I don‟t remember right now.

Here Jason admits that he told police it was “fun” being tickled by MJ!

24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Remember telling the

25 police you just remember the tickling; it was fun?

26 A. It was fun to be tickled, to laugh. That‟s

27 fun.

28 Q. Okay. That‟s what you told the police in 4870

1 that interview, correct?

2 A. What I‟m telling you right now is that it‟s

3 fun to laugh. I don‟t know what I told them.

4 Q. Might it refresh your recollection if I just

5 show you a page of transcript?

6 A. I‟ll agree with it if it says it on there,

7 but I — to remember that all right now, I don‟t

8 remember.

Here is where Mesereau asks Jason about the specifics of the settlement money that he extorted out of MJ, which he never discussed with his mother!

19 Q. At some point you and your mother settled a

20 case with Mr. Jackson, correct?

21 A. I don‟t remember signing papers.

22 Q. You‟re how old today?

23 A. I‟m 24.

24 Q. And you‟re telling the jury you don‟t know

25 whether you and your mother ever reached a financial

26 settlement with Mr. Jackson?

27 A. There was a financial settlement.

28 Q. Okay. And when did you learn about that? 4872

1 A. I believe I was 17.

2 Q. Do you remember signing documents in that?

3 A. At 17, I don‟t remember.

4 Q. Okay. Do you remember looking at that

5 agreement?

6 A. At 17, I did not look at that agreement.

7 Q. And now, at 17, you knew that your mother

8 had already gone on television attacking Mr.

9 Jackson, right?

10 A. When she was on Hard Copy, is that what

11 you‟re talking about?

12 Q. Yes.

13 A. Yes. At 17, I heard she had already been on

14 Hard Copy.

15 Q. And at some point she met with Attorney

16 Larry Feldman, did she not?

17 A. I don‟t know.

18 Q. Okay. But at 17, you certainly knew that

19 your mother had hired attorneys who were threatening

20 to sue Mr. Jackson if they didn‟t get some money,

21 right?

22 A. No, I do not.

23 Q. Didn‟t know anything about that at 17?

24 A. Call me a stupid kid. I didn‟t know.

25 Q. Okay. But you certainly learned about it at

26 some point?

27 A. Yeah. I learned about it at some point.

28 Q. Which did you learn about the fact that your 4873

1 lawyers were threatening to go public and sue Mr.

2 Jackson unless you and your mother got money?

3 A. All of that stuff I don‟t know about. I

4 knew that there was a settlement. I don‟t know how

5 they fought, or what they argued about, or what they

6 talked about.

7 Q. You‟ve never discussed it with your mom?

8 A. About — I have never discussed what, the

9 settlement?

10 Q. Yes.

11 A. Yes, I have.

12 Q. Have you ever discussed how the settlement

13 came about with your mom?

14 A. No.

This is where he admits that he isn’t sure if he ever signed a settlement with MJ, and that he and his mom never talked about her settlement because of their “weird” relationship!

10 Q. At the age of 24, and as you sit here today,

11 you don‟t know if you ever signed a settlement

12 document with Mr. Jackson?

13 A. That is correct.

14 Q. As you sit here today, at the age of 24, do

15 you know if your mother ever signed a settlement

16 document with Mr. Jackson?

17 A. I think she did.

18 Q. Do you know if any money has come your way

19 through a settlement with Mr. Jackson?

20 A. Money has, yes.

21 Q. Okay. And when did you first learn about

22 that?

23 A. I answered that I thought. At 17.

24 Q. Okay. And you‟ve had many discussions with

25 your mom about that, right?

26 A. No. We — me and my mom have a weird

27 relationship. Well, not a weird relationship. We

28 just don‟t talk about much stuff. 4875

Here is where Mesereau grills Jason about the aggressive interrogation tactics of the police, and Jason once again admits he was fighting them, and he told them he wasn’t gay:

1 Q. Okay. Do you remember constantly telling

2 the people who interviewed you in 1993 that you

3 didn‟t remember Mr. Jackson doing anything improper?

4 A. I don‟t remember now, but I — in listening

5 to the tapes, I remember when I was — at first I

6 was denying everything.

7 Q. You‟ve told the police that he tickled you,

8 you tickled him, you both laughed, and then you went

9 home, right, early in the interview?

10
A. I think I told him that I blacked it out

11 or — yeah.

12 Q. And you told the police at one point as they

13 tried to get you to say he had molested you, you

14 said, “If I don‟t remember, I don‟t remember,”

15 right?

16 A. Yeah.

17 Q. The police kept trying to tell you to say

18 that Mr. Jackson put his hands somewhere that was

19 improper, right?

20 A. No, they didn‟t.

21 Q. Do you remember these long paragraph

22 questions where they‟d say, essentially, “Admit to

23 us he did something improper”?

24 A. They said, “If he did something, then tell

25 us.” That‟s what I remember. You could give me

26 that, and I‟ll read it.

27 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

28 you one of the paragraph questions they asked you? 4876

1 A. Well, this is — I‟m telling you what I

2 remember. It‟s not going to change my memory.

3 Q. It‟s not going to change your memory to look

4 at the transcript?

5 A. No. What I remember is them telling me, “If

6 he did something, then tell us.” And I was, “No,

7 I‟m not gay.” I was fighting it again.

8 Q. You repeatedly told them, “I have nothing to

9 tell you. I don‟t remember anything,” right?

10 A. I‟m sorry?

11 Q. You repeatedly told them you had nothing to

12 tell them because you didn‟t remember anything

13 improper?

14 A. In the very beginning, yeah.

At this point, Mesereau and Jason are going back and forth, and out of frustration Mesereau asks Judge Melville to instruct Jason to answer his questions!

6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember anything

7 that happened after you went to the floor during the

8 first time you say you were improperly touched?

9 A. Isn‟t that the same question that you just

10 asked?

11 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, could the witness

12 be instructed to respond?

13 MR. ZONEN: I‟m not certain as to the –

14 THE COURT: Just a moment.

15 (To the witness) The problem we have is you

16 don‟t get to object to his questions. If the

17 District Attorney wants to object, he can. If the

18 District Attorney doesn‟t object, then you just

19 answer the question.

20 THE WITNESS: Okay.

Mesereau catches him in another lie in this exchange where he forces Jason to admit that, once again, he initially denied by abused by MJ!

9 Q. In your interview in 1993, the police asked

10 you if Mr. Jackson rubbed your penis, and you said,

11 “No,” correct?

12 A. Yeah.

13 Q. Right?

14 A. In the beginning, yeah.

15 Q. Well, pretty late in the interview, wasn‟t

16 it?

17 A. I have no clue.

18 Q. You said, “It was a tickling. He didn‟t rub

19 me there,” correct?

20 A. Oh. Okay. If we‟re going that –

21 Q. Is that right?

22 A. Yeah, he was playing with my stuff, not

23 rubbing it. In a stroking manner.

24 Q. I know the point you‟re trying to make to

25 the jury, but I‟m just asking you the facts, okay?

26 MR. ZONEN: I think that‟s argumentative.

27 THE COURT: Sustained.

28 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You told the police that, 4880

1 “He never rubbed me there. It was just a tickling,”

2 correct?

3 MR. ZONEN: Objection; asked and answered.

4 THE COURT: Overruled.

5 You may answer.

6 THE WITNESS: One more time.

7 THE COURT: I‟ll have the court reporter….

8 (Record read.)

9 THE WITNESS: I don‟t remember.

10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Would it refresh your

11 recollection if I show you a transcript?

12 A. I don‟t remember. I‟ll say I don‟t

13 remember, but I‟ll agree with what the transcript

14 says.

15 Q. Okay. Well, I‟m not trying to put words in

16 your mouth. Would you like to look at it?

17 A. Okay.

18 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

19 THE COURT: All right.

20 MR. ZONEN: What page, Counsel?

21 MR. MESEREAU: 45.

22 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.

23 THE WITNESS: Okay.

24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

25 look at that transcript?

26 A. I did.

27 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

28 you told the police in that interview? 4881

1 A. No. But in reading it, it said, “Well,

2 yeah” in the very beginning of that sentence.

Jason claims that he was first molested at age 7, then again at age 8, and the last time he was 10, which means these tickling games took place in 1987, 88, and 90.

1 Q. Okay. So let me just, for the record, get

2 your ages each time. The first time you were around

3 seven, right?

4 A. Sounds about right. Seven, seven and a

5 half.

6 Q. The next time you were around eight?

7 A. Eight, eight and a half, or nine. Yeah.

8 Q. And the third time you‟re how old, do you

9 think?

10 A. Ten, ten and a half.

Here is where Jason admits that Sneddon was at his first counseling session!

24 Q. You said that you‟ve done some therapy,

25 right?

26 A. That I‟ve gone through counseling, yeah.

27 Q. Yes. And without going into what you said,

28 because that‟s confidential — 4887

1 A. Okay.

2 Q. — have you done anything, exercises or

3 anything, to try and refresh your memory about what

4 happened in „87 or „88?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Okay. And has any representative of the

7 police department been involved in any of your

8 counseling sessions?

9 A. No, I don‟t think so. Well, there was the

10 one time that the — that I first met Mr. Sneddon, I

11 think that‟s his name. And it wasn‟t a counseling

12 session. But Mike Craft, which was my counselor,

13 was there.

14 Q. Was there with Mr. Sneddon present?

15 A. I think he was there, but I was 13.

16 Q. Okay. And to your knowledge, was Mr.

17 Sneddon talking to your counselor?

18 A. I don‟t know.

19 Q. Okay. This is 12 years ago, approximately?

20 A. In „93.

21 Q. Okay. Okay.

22 A. Or „94.

23 Q. Okay. But you don‟t know what your

24 counselor or Mr. Sneddon said to each other, right?

25 You wouldn‟t know?

26 A. I wouldn‟t know.

27 Q. Okay. Do you know how long Mr. Sneddon and

28 your counselor met? 4888

1 MR. ZONEN: Objection; assumes facts not in

2 evidence, that they met.

3 THE COURT: Overruled.

4 You may answer.

5 THE WITNESS: I don‟t even know if they met.

6 I don‟t even — well, they had to have met because

7 they were in the same room, if they were in the same

8 room. But I don‟t know.

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you know where they

10 were in the same room?

11 A. Yeah, when they were in front of me.

12 Q. Do you know where that room was?

13 A. Yeah, it was in where I got my counseling.

14 It was my counselor‟s office.

15 Q. So Mr. Sneddon came to your counselor‟s

16 office, correct?

17 A. That‟s what it — I‟m telling you this,

18
because I think I remember meeting him there.

19 Q. Okay. Do you know if your counselor‟s been

20 in touch with Mr. Sneddon?

21 A. I don‟t.

22 Q. Do you know if he‟s spoken to Mr. Sneddon at

23 any time other than that day?

24 A. I don‟t.

Here’s another memory lapse from Jason! He describes not remembering that he told police that he didn’t know if MJ touched him in his arcade! This is also one of the most important excerpts of his testimony, because he admits that the police were “pushy” with him, and he was trying to tell them what they wanted to hear so that he could get out of there! This excerpt concludes the first of two days of testimony.

15 Q. And in that 1993 interview, when it came to

16 talking about what happened at the arcade, you

17 didn‟t know if he‟d really touched you improperly,

18 right?

19 A. I knew.

20 Q. Well, you kept responding, “I don‟t know,”

21 and then you‟d say, “If he really did touch, it was

22 in the arcade”?

23 A. No –

24 Q. And you were asked, “Do you think he did

25 it?” And you said, “I don‟t know”?

26 A. I knew.

27 Q. But you told the police you didn‟t know,

28 correct? 4893

1 A. I don‟t remember. If you bring that thing

2 to me again, I‟m going to — yes.

3 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to look

4 at it?

5 A. Yes, bring it over.

6 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

7 THE COURT: Yes.

8 THE WITNESS: You should just drop one off.

9 Okay.

10 MR. ZONEN: What page, Counsel?

11 MR. MESEREAU: That would be 57 and 58.

12 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.

13 THE WITNESS: Okay.

14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

15 look at those pages?

16 A. I did.

17 Q. Does looking at those pages refresh your

18 recollection about what you have told the police –

19 A. No.

20 Q. — in „93?

21 A. I was 13. Eleven years ago.

22 Q. You weren‟t even sure you were tickled at

23 all. Remember that?

24 A. I don‟t remember that I — I knew.

25 Q. Remember telling the police, “You guys are

26 pushy”?

27 A. Yeah. I remember telling the police that.

28 Q. Okay. And after they kept pushing you, you 4894

1 finally said, “You know, I think he did tickle me,”

2 right?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Do you remember that? Do you remember at

5 first saying you didn‟t know, and then after –

6 A. Yeah, I remember saying at first, “I don‟t

7 know.”

8 Q. And after telling the police, “You guys are

9 pushy,” you eventually finally said, “Yes, he

10 tickled me,” right?

11 A. I believe that‟s how it went.

12 Q. Okay. You kind of went back and forth

13 during the interview, didn‟t you? One second you‟d

14 say, “He tickled me,” and the next second you‟d say

15 you‟re not sure, right?

16 A. I was trying to figure out how to get out of

17 there.

18 Q. I understand. And you remember exactly how

19 you felt in 1993 during the interview, right?

20 A. The feeling of, yeah, crying and crappiness.

21 Q. Okay. Do you remember the police kept

22 trying to get you to say he‟s a molester?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

25 you what one officer said to you about that?

26 A. Bring it over.

27 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach?

28 MR. ZONEN: Perhaps the witness could 4895

1 indicate whether it would refresh his recollection.

2 THE WITNESS: It wouldn‟t.

3 THE COURT: When he said “Bring it over,”

4 that sort of means like he‟ll see if it refreshes

5 his recollection.

6 THE WITNESS: Okay.

7 THE COURT: It‟s a shortcut. Go ahead.

8 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.

9 THE COURT: We‟re down to the last seconds

10 here. Run.

11 (Laughter.)

12 MR. ZONEN: What page, Counsel?

13 MR. MESEREAU: 60.

14 MR. ZONEN: What line, please? It‟s not

15 numbered. Never mind.

16 MR. MESEREAU: Towards the bottom. Towards

17 the bottom.

18 THE WITNESS: Okay.

19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You‟re 13 years old.

20 You‟re sitting there, and one officer said to you –

21 THE COURT: Wait a minute now. Are you going

22 to ask him if it refreshes his memory?

23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

24 look at that transcript? Does it refresh your

25 recollection that an officer looked at you said –

26 THE COURT: Just a moment, Counsel.

27 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.

28 THE COURT: He said, no, it didn‟t refresh 4896

1 his recollection.

2 All right. This is the end of the day.

3 (Laughter.)

4 See you tomorrow.

5 THE COURT: Go to bed one hour early.

6 (The proceedings adjourned at 2:30 p.m.)

As you can see from that exchange, the police were trying to coerce Jason into making a false confession, and they succeeded! This was the M.O. of the police department in 1993 as they searched for anyone that they could use to corroborate Jordan’s lies. Another example of someone who was bullied during his interrogation (but did NOT give in and make a false accusation) is actor Corey Feldman! The audiotape of his 1993 police interview was leaked during the trial, and in it you can clearly hear the police badgering Corey about his relationship with MJ. But what’s most disturbing and frightening is the fact that he Corey really was molested, and he names his abuser, but the police IGNORE HIM!

Notice that Corey mentions how MJ slept on a cot while he was in the bed, and that MJ prayed with him before going to sleep!

Here is his testimony from April 5^th, 2005. Mesereau starts by asking him if he discussed his testimony with anyone, and notice the prosecutors said he did a “good job”, and that he asked his pastor to pray for him!

16 Q. Mr. Francia, we were discussing yesterday

17 your first interview with two police detectives

18 which took place on November 3rd, 1993, okay?

19 A. Okay.

20 Q. That‟s where we left off.

21 Now, did you discuss your testimony

22 yesterday with anyone after you left the courthouse?

23 A. Yeah.

24 Q. Who did you discuss it with?

25 A. My wife.

26 Q. Anyone else?

27 A. No.

28 Q. Did you discuss it with any prosecutor? 4902

1 A. No, I was kind of nervous. I said, “How‟d

2 it go?” And they smiled and they said, “It went

3 well.”

4 Q. And which prosecutor told you that?

5 A. I can‟t specifically remember, but it was

6 one of them.

7 Q. Okay. Did you discuss anything else with

8 one of them?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Did you talk with any sheriff about your

11 testimony?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Were you on the phone last night with anyone

14 about your testimony?

15 A. No. I did tell my pastor this morning that

16 I was on the stand, and if he could pray for me.

17 But other than that, that was it.

18 Q. Anyone else?

19 A. Nope.

Here Jason is asked about the true reasons why MJ gave him money! MJ would pay him money for reading books and getting A’s! Jason said he didn’t remember saying it back then, but did remember “saying it on the tape”. Talk about a contradiction, eh?

20 Q. Okay. Now, yesterday you told the jury that

21 Mr. Jackson had given you some money, correct?

22 A. Right.

23 Q. And you told them he had given you

24 hundred-dollar bills, right?

25 A. Right.

26 Q. Isn‟t it true that when you were originally

27 interviewed by the police, you told them that Mr.

28 Jackson would give you money each time you read a 4903

1 book?

2 A. Yeah, he also said that, as well. Yeah,

3 he‟d give me $20, I think it was.

4 Q. And you told the police that you remember

5 him having a room full of books, and you said every

6 time you complete a book, he‟ll pay you some money,

7 right?

8 A. I don‟t remember that, but I remember

9 listening to it on the tape.

10 Q. But that was your voice on the tape,

11 correct?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Okay. You also told the police that Mr.

14 Jackson told you one time that if you got A‟s in

15 school, he would also pay you every time you got an

16 A, correct?

17 A. Yes. That is correct. I remember — I

18 don‟t remember him saying that, but I remember it on

19 the tape.

20 Q. And that was your voice on the tape?

21 A. Yes, sir.

22 Q. Telling it to the police, correct?

23 A. Yes, sir.

24 Q. Okay. When you met with the prosecutors

25 before you testified, did anyone tell you not to

26 mention that when you talked about money?

27 A. No.

28 Q. Okay. You just forgot? 4904

1 A. I‟m sorry?

2 Q. You just forgot yesterday?

3 MR. ZONEN: Objection; argumentative.

4 THE COURT: Overruled.

5 You may answer.

6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: When you were responding

7 the prosecutor‟s questions –

8 THE COURT: Wait. He has a question pending.

9 MR. MESEREAU: Oh, I‟m sorry.

10 THE COURT: I overruled the objection.

11 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question?

12 THE COURT: The question was, “You just

13 forgot yesterday?”

14 THE WITNESS: I have no idea what you‟re

15 referring to. I just forgot about what?

16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: About Mr. Jackson paying

17 you money for, one, reading a book –

18 A. No –

19 Q. — and, two, getting A‟s.

20 A. I didn‟t remember that, but I remember

21 saying that on the tape.

Jason is once again questioned by Mesereau about the bullying tactics of the police, and for him to want to hit the police in the head is indicative of his level of frustration with them!

20 Q. Do you remember stating in that interview,

21 “They made me come out with a lot more stuff I

22 didn‟t want to say. They kept pushing. I wanted to

23 get up and hit them in the head”? Do you remember

24 that?

25 A. No.

26 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

27 you the transcript of that?

28 A. Probably not. But you can show it to me 4908

1 anyway.

2 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

3 THE COURT: Yes.

4 MR. ZONEN: What page, Counsel?

5 MR. MESEREAU: 30.

6 THE WITNESS: Okay.

7 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

8 look at that page of the transcript?

9 A. I have.

10 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

11 you‟ve said?

12 A. No, it does not.

13 Q. Do you remember anything you said in that

14 interview at the moment?

15 A. Not really.

In December 2004, Jason met with his lawyer and prosecutors, and ironically he requested that the interview not be recorded! But it was recorded anyway.

11 Q. Do you remember when that interview began,

12 you requested that your interview not be

13 tape-recorded?

14 A. I don‟t remember that.

15 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

16 you a report on that interview?

17 A. Okay. Sure.

18 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

19 THE COURT: Yes.

20 THE WITNESS: Okay.

21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

22 look at that report?

23 A. I read the first paragraph.

24 Q. And does it refresh your recollection that

25 you requested that your interview not be

26 tape-recorded?

27 A. It does not, but I probably said that.

28 Q. Okay. You don‟t know for sure, though? 4912

1 A. No.

Jason goes on to say that he made that request because tape recording is “weird”! But pay attention to this exchange, because Mesereau points out some bombshell exculpatory evidence! Each and every instance of “molestation” was preceded by a tickling contest! This is indicative of the playful relationship MJ had with Jason!

24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Why didn‟t you want your

25 interview in December of 2004 with the prosecutors

26 tape-recorded?

27 A. I don‟t know.

28 Q. You don‟t have any idea why you made that 4917

1 request?

2 A. Tape-recording is weird. I don‟t know. No,

3 I don‟t.

4 Q. Okay. Do you remember telling Prosecutor

5 Zonen in the December 2004 interview regarding the

6 first incident you described – okay? – that you and

7 Mr. Jackson were in a tickle contest? Do you

8 remember that?

9 A. I do not. I don‟t know whether it was the

10 first interview or the second interview that we

11 talked about Michael molesting me.

12 Q. Well, actually, in the December interview,

13 you told Prosecutor Zonen that, in all three

14 instances that you described where you claim you

15 were inappropriately touched, every incident was

16 preceded by a tickling contest between you and Mr.

17 Jackson, right?

18 A. I don‟t know.

19 Q. Would it refresh your recollection just to

20 show you the report?

21 A. You can show it to me, but I don‟t know

22 whether it was the first or the second.

23 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

24 THE COURT: Yes.

25 THE WITNESS: Okay.

26 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

27 review that page of the report?

28 A. I didn‟t read the whole page. I read that 4918

1 paragraph.

2 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

3 you told Prosecutor Zonen in that December 6th,

4 2004, interview?

5 A. It doesn‟t — I don‟t — it doesn‟t help

6 remembering, but –

7 Q. Well, you told him that all three events

8 that you described were preceded by a tickling

9 contest, correct?

10 A. I don‟t remember.

11 Q. You and Mr. Jackson were in a contest as to

12 who could tickle the most, correct?

13 A. I just said I don‟t remember that. I don‟t

14 mean to sound like I‟m wasting your time, but this

15 is kind of hard being up here, and –

16 Q. No, please don‟t. Just respond to my

17 questions, if you would, please.

18 A. Okay. Sorry.

Jason then admits that he asked that his mother’s November 19^th, 2004 interview not be recorded as well! He didn’t know at first that his mom was interviewed in November 2004, but then suddenly remembered he was at that meeting, and requested that he not be tape recorded.

19 Q. Now, on November 19th, 2004, Prosecutor

20 Zonen and Auchincloss interviewed your mother at the

21 District Attorney‟s Office, right?

22 A. I don‟t know. Me and my mother don‟t talk

23 about that stuff much.

24 Q. Well, you were present, weren‟t you?

25 A. Now I remember, yes.

26 Q. Now you remember?

27 A. Yeah. I was present there.

28 Q. You not only were present, but you also 4919

1 requested that that not be tape-recorded, correct?

2 A. Probably.

3 Q. You don‟t know?

4 A. I don‟t know.

5 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to look

6 at that report?

7 A. No. But bring it on up.

8 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

9 THE COURT: No, he said it wouldn‟t.

10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You‟re not willing to look

11 at it?

12 A. It‟s not about me willing. I‟m willing to

13 look at it, but it‟s not going to help.

14 Q. Well, that was last November you had that

15 interview with your mom and these prosecutors,

16 correct?

17 A. Again, this is all difficult.

18 Q. I know it‟s difficult, but you‟re saying you

19 don‟t remember that interview?

20 A. You just said I met with my mom and I was

21 there, and I didn‟t remember until you said that,

22 and then I remembered.

23 Q. Do you remember you and your mom both

24 requested that the interview not be tape-recorded?

25 A. I do not.

26 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to see

27 what it says in the report about that?

28 A. Bring it over. It — yeah. Bring it over. 4920

1 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

2 THE COURT: Yes.

3 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

4 look at the page of that report?

5 A. Yeah, I read the first paragraph.

6 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about you

7 and your mother both requesting no tape-recording?

8 A. No, it does not.

9 Q. Okay. You don‟t remember one way or the

10 other about that?

11 A. Right.

Memory lapse alert! Memory lapse alert! Here Jason admits that he doesn’t remember his interviews from October, November, or December 2004!!

12 Q. Okay. Okay. Now, on that particular day,

13 and I‟m referring to November 19th, 2004, you were

14 interviewed as well, correct?

15 A. Was this when my mother was present?

16 Q. Yes.

17 A. Okay.

18 Q. Do you remember you were interviewed on that

19 day?

20 A. I think I was just there for my mom.

21 Q. Well, actually, they interviewed your mom

22 first and then they interviewed you second, correct?

23 A. I don‟t remember that.

24 Q. Okay. They interviewed you for about an

25 hour, didn‟t they?

26 A. They may have.

27 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

28 you the report about that? 4921

1 A. No.

2 Q. You‟re not willing to look at it?

3 A. I‟ll look at it. I‟ll look at it, but no,

4 it probably won‟t.

5 Q. You don‟t remember an hour interview on

6 November 19th, 2004?

7 A. Again, the issue is it‟s all kind of

8 blending in together.

9 Q. You do remember the December interview with

10 Prosecutor Zonen, right?

11 A. You asked me that –

12 Q. Yes.

13 A. Go ahead, ask it again. Do I remember the

14 December interview?

15 Q. Yes.

16 A. I remember it taking place. I don‟t

17 remember what specific was asked.

18 Q. Actually, let me clarify the date.

19 A. Okay.

20 Q. Okay. I‟m talking about the report. You

21 were interviewed on October 18th, 2004, by

22 prosecutors, right?

23 A. I‟m sorry?

24 Q. You were interviewed on October 18th by

25 prosecutors, correct?

26 A. Of 2004?

27 Q. Yes.

28 A. I believe that was the first time that I met 4922

1 these guys, but I don‟t know.

2 Q. And then you were interviewed approximately

3 a month later on November 19th, right?

4 A. You got a bunch of hands raised behind you.

5 THE BAILIFF: Mr. Mesereau, could you check

6 if it‟s on? I guess they can‟t hear you back there.

7 THE WITNESS: Sorry, that‟s what was kind of

8 distracting me.

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: I had mentioned a December

10 date. Actually, you were interviewed in October and

11 November of 2004, right?

12 A. October, November, December. I don‟t know.

Here’s another example of how the police bullied him in 1993!

2 Q. Okay. All right. Now, you admitted that at

3 the beginning of your first interview with sheriffs

4 in „93, you said that Mr. Jackson had not touched

5 your genital area, right?

6 A. I said that at the very beginning.

7 MR. ZONEN: Objection; asked and answered.

8 THE COURT: Sustained.

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: It was only after you were

10 pushed real hard by the sheriffs that you began to

11 say anything like that, true?

12 MR. ZONEN: Objection; asked and answered.

13 THE COURT: Sustained.

14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And at one point a sheriff

15 actually used a curse word to get you to say

16 something, correct?

17 A. I don‟t remember that, but you could show me

18 the thing.

19 Q. Okay. But as you sit here today, you don‟t

20 remember, right?

21 A. I don‟t remember the four-letter word.

22 Everybody in junior high cussed.

23 Q. How about the word “bullshit”?

24 A. What about it?

25 Q. Do you remember a sheriff telling you that?

26 A. I don‟t, but I think I remember listening to

27 it on the tape.

28 Q. Do you remember in that interview one 4927

1 sheriff telling you, “Mr. Jackson is a molester,”

2 and the other saying, “He makes great music, he‟s a

3 great guy, bullshit”? Do you remember that?

4 A. I don‟t remember that specifically, but I

5 think I remember hearing it on the tape, which was

6 my voice, or his voice.

7 Q. You do remember a sheriff‟s voice saying

8 that, right?

9 A. I don‟t remember right now of „93, but I

10 remember listening to the tape.

11 Q. Okay. And a sheriff said that to you,

12 correct?

13 A. I believe so.

14 Q. And the sheriffs complained that, “Mr.

15 Jackson has a lot of money” in that interview,

16 right?

17 A. I believe he did say that, but can I look at

18 the paper?

19 Q. Sure.

20 May I approach, Your Honor?

21 THE COURT: Yes.

22 THE WITNESS: Okay.

23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

24 look at the transcript?

25 A. I did.

26 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

27 the sheriffs said to you about Mr. Jackson in the

28 interview? 4928

1 A. I don‟t remember that specifically, but

2 reading it in the transcript, I remember reading

3 that in the transcript when I read it on Sunday,

4 when I reviewed the tape.

5 Q. And even after sheriffs said to you, “He‟s a

6 molester, he‟s a great guy, makes great music,

7 bullshit, he has lots of money,” you still said he

8 had never touched your genital area, right?

9 A. I believe so. Probably towards the

10 beginning again.

In this excerpt, Mesereau traps Jason with yet another one of his initial denials of abuse by MJ, and a frustrated Mesereau is chastised by Judge Melville for being too vague as to which interview he is referring to! He also asks Jason how he could remember crying during an interview he if doesn’t even remember the interview!

26 Q. Okay. You were asked to describe what Mr.

27 Jackson did with his hands, and your response was,

28 “He tickled me,” true? 4932

1 A. I don‟t know. I was probably crying then.

2 Q. Would you like to review the transcript, see

3 if it refreshes your recollection?

4 A. Sure.

5 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. May I approach, Your

6 Honor?

7 THE COURT: Yes.

8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: By the way, if you don‟t

9 remember the interview, how do you know you were

10 crying?

11 A. Because I usually cry when we‟re talking

12 about the molestation.

13 Q. Okay. Okay. Again, do you remember saying

14 to the police officers in response to their

15 question, “What did he do with your penis?” You

16 said, “He tickled me”?

17 A. I thought you were going to bring me that

18 thing.

19 Q. Would you like to see it?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Okay.

22 A. Okay.

23 Q. Do you remember describing what Mr. Jackson

24 did as tickling?

25 A. Do I remember describing what Michael

26 Jackson did as tickling?

27 Q. Yes.

28 A. Like tickling my penis or — 4933

1 Q. Yes.

2 A. Are we talking the first or second or third

3 incident?

4 Q. I don‟t know.

5 MR. ZONEN: Well, I‟m going to object as

6 vague.

7 THE COURT: The objection is sustained.

8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember telling

9 the interviewers in that second interview in 1994,

10 when they asked you what Mr. Jackson did with your

11 penis, you said, “He didn‟t really touch it, he was

12 above my shorts”? Do you remember that?

13 A. Are we talking first or second or third?

14 Q. I believe you were just answering their

15 questions.

16 MR. ZONEN: Objection; vague.

17 THE COURT: Sustained.

18 Counsel, you‟re going to have to direct –

19 if you‟re going to question in this manner, you‟re

20 going to have to direct it to specific times. There

21 were three interviews.

22 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. I‟m sorry, Your Honor.

23 THE COURT: And you‟re being unfair to the

24 witness in my opinion.

In this excerpt, Jason is asked about yet another one of his denials, and when he tries to give a long and convoluted answer, he s chastised by Judge Melville:

20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. I‟m going to try

21 and direct my questions to a particular interview,

22 one of the four that you had, and direct them to one

23 of the three events that you have described when you

24 claim Mr. Jackson improperly touched you, okay?

25 Now, directing your attention to the second

26 interview, which is in 1994 – okay? – and directing

27 your attention to the first event that you have

28 described where you claim Mr. Jackson improperly 4935

1 touched you – okay? – do you remember — excuse me.

2 Isn‟t it true that, when asked about the first event

3 in that second interview, you said Mr. Jackson

4 didn‟t really touch your penis?

5 A. I don‟t –

6 MR. ZONEN: What page?

7 MR. MESEREAU: 60.

8 THE WITNESS: No, I don‟t remember.

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Would it refresh your

10 recollection if I show you a page of that

11 transcript?

12 A. Bring it over.

13 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach?

14 THE COURT: Yes.

15 THE WITNESS: Okay.

16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

17 look at that page?

18 A. I have. Well, not the tape. I‟ve read

19 those two little sentences there.

20 Q. Does it refresh your recollection of what

21 you told the people who were interviewing you about

22 that first event during the interview in 1994?

23 A. It does not refresh my memory. But in

24 reading it –

25 THE COURT: Wait. That‟s the end of your

26 answer.

27 THE WITNESS: Okay. Sorry.

28 THE COURT: Listen to the question and just 4936

1 answer the question asked.

Mesereau pins Jason down again and forces him to account for what he told police in 1994 when he said that he’s “working on that” in response to a question of whether he remembered what he said in the first interview.

19 Q. Okay. Do you remember telling the

20 interviewers, when you were asked do you remember

21 anything that he said, you said, “No, I‟m working on

22 that”?

23 A. No.

24 MR. ZONEN: I‟ll object as to which

25 interview; vague.

26 MR. MESEREAU: In the second interview, I‟m

27 sorry.

28 Q. In the second interview — let me rephrase 4941

1 the question. I‟ll withdraw it.

2 In the second interview in 1994 – okay? –

3 A. Okay.

4 Q. — that was recorded – all right? – when

5 asked if Mr. Jackson said anything to you about

6 whether you should discuss what happened, do you

7 remember telling the interviewers, “No, but I‟m

8 working on that”?

9 A. I do not remember that.

10 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

11 you the transcript?

12 A. No. But — you could bring it over.

13 Q. Well, I can‟t unless you‟re willing to see

14 if it refreshes your recollection.

15 A. Okay. Bring it over. I‟ll give it a shot.

16 I‟ll read it just to see if it refreshes my memory.

17 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach?

18 THE COURT: Yes.

19 MR. ZONEN: Page, Counsel?

20 MR. MESEREAU: Yes. Pages 105, 106.

21 THE WITNESS: Okay.

22 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

23 review those pages –

24 A. I have.

25 Q. — of your transcript?

26 Do they refresh your recollection about what

27 you said on that subject?

28 A. No, it does not. 4942

1 Q. It doesn‟t.

2 A. Sorry.

Here’s something that will make you laugh out loud! Jason admits that he first learned that MJ was sued for money at age 16 when money “became an issue for him”!

25 Q. Looking back, when is the first time you

26 recall you knew someone else had sued Mr. Jackson

27 looking for money?

28 A. Probably 16. 4943

1 Q. Excuse me?

2 A. I was probably 16. Because that‟s when

3 money started being an issue for me.

That excerpt ends Mesereau’s cross examination. Zonen asked a few more questions under re-direct examination, and three things that stand out are that 1) he never told his wife about his “molestation”, 2) he did tell his pastor about it, and 3) he told his mother about it only after he started getting counseling, but didn’t tell her any details. You would think she would demand to know the details, right?

Mesereau declined to re-cross examine Jason, and after reading my summary of his testimony, it’s easy to see why! Interestingly, Jason said that MJ “needs to move away” as he left the witness stand. As we all know, those words were prophetic, as MJ moved to Bahrain after his acquittal. (Although I’m sure Jason didn’t imply that MJ should move away to avoid the press!)

5 Q. Mr. Mesereau asked you yesterday questions

6 about whether you talked to your mother about what

7 had happened, and if so, to what extent.

8 Did you ever have a conversation with your

9 mother where you told her that you were molested?

10 A. I think I told her that I was molested in

11 counseling, because then she shared that she was

12 molested as well.

13 Q. Okay. Did you ever tell her the details of

14 the molestation?

15 A. No.

16 Q. What had happened, how it happened, how

17 often it happened, any of those types of details?

18 A. I don‟t think so.

19 Q. To this day, have you ever?

20 A. To this day. My wife found out on the

21 stand.

22 Q. The details you had not yet told your wife?

23 A. Right.

24 Q. Have you ever told anybody the details other

25 than your therapist?

26 A. My pastor.

27 Q. Your pastor?

28 A. And I don‟t think I told him the details. 4948

1 MR. ZONEN: Thank you. I have no further

2 questions.

3 THE COURT: Recross?

4 MR. MESEREAU: No further questions, Your

5 Honor.

6 THE COURT: All right. You may step down.

7 He needs to move away.

8 MR. SNEDDON: Don‟t forget your jacket.

Now, after reading that summary of Jason’s ENTIRE testimony, it’s pretty easy to see why the jury didn’t take his claims seriously, right? It’s too bad the general public wasn’t informed about the facts of his testimony! Let’s look at what the Santa Maria Times had to say about Jason’s testimony!

Former Jackson victim finishes testifying

A 24-year-old Santa Maria man who said Michael Jackson molested him on three occasions as a child wrapped up his testimony this morning.

During cross examination, Jackson attorney Thomas Mesereau Jr. quizzed the man on four interviews he had with law enforcement between 1993 and 2004. Mesereau was unable to reveal any inconsistencies in the story.

At times Mesereau was vague about which specific interview and incident of molestation he was referring to, prompting Santa Barbara Superior Court Judge Rodney Melville to briefly interrupt questioning.

“You/re being unfair to the witness, in my opinion,” Melville said.

The man, whose mother was a housekeeper for the singer, also spoke of how his perception of Michael Jackson changed during his childhood.

“In fifth grade I told my friends that I knew Michael Jackson and they thought it was cool …. In junior high it/s no longer cool to know someone who has issues with kids,” the man said.

The man, who testified Monday about how tickling contests with Jackson escalated into fondling, said today that after two of the incidents Jackson put a ,100 bill in his shorts.

Mesereau referred to previous interviews the man gave in which he said Jackson also offered him money to read books and get good grades. The man said he never received any money for either of those deeds.

“Throughout my whole life, grades were a problem,” the man said, provoking some chuckling in the courtroom.

The Santa Maria Times, following its established policy, is not identifying those who allege they were abused by Jackson, even though they are being named in court.

* Staff writer Quintin Cushner can be reached at (805) 739-2217 or by e-mail atqcushner@pulitzer.net.

April 6,2005

Can you believe that? Mesereau was “unable to reveal any inconsistencies in the story”? Are you freaking kidding me? Maybe we should contact Quintin Cushner and ask him if he even bothered to read Jason’s testimony! There were so many inconsistencies that the jurors LAUGHED at his testimony during a court break after he was done testifying! Watch the video below beginning at 8:12 for analysis of his testimony!

Watch this video on Bing to see how the media’s reaction to the jury laughing at Francia’s testimony! (I’m working on getting it uploaded to Youtube, and I will embed it here once it’s added to there.)

Here are the complete questions asked by the police that Mesereau used as examples of their bullying methods on Jason, taken from the SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF OPPOSITION TO DISTRIC ATTORNEY’S MTION FOR ADMISSION OF ALLEGED PRIOR OFFENSES pleading . After telling cops that he doesn’t remember being inappropriately touched by MJ, Det. Neglia responds with the following:

Detective Neglia: Okay, but what I am getting at is that maybe I am not being obvious enough. What I am saying is maybe he put his hands someplace on you where he shouldn’t have. Maybe he put his hands on you someplace that made you feel uncomfortable. And that’s why you are not remembering. It’s like there is a little bit of “Oh. I can’t remember that guy’s name and I don’t remember his last name, and I just don’t remember that. No I don’t want to remember that, no I can’t remember.” It’s a little of bit of a different kind of not remembering, one is because you are choosing not to, and one is that you just can’t call back the uh, the event. And I think of what you doing is tickling and all this stuff, is trying forcing yourself not to remember. And you also kind of got to the one where you’re saying that fourth time at the party you said something like, “That was the time.” What time was it?

Jason: What was the time?

Later in the interview, the detecives tell Jason Francia that MJ is currently molesting Macaulay Culkin:

Det. Neglia: I realize how hard this is. I realize how painful it is to think of these things you tried so hard not to think about but you are doing fine. And you are also helping the kid that he is bothering now.

Jason Francia: What do you mean he’s bothering?

Det. Birchim: He’s doing the same thing.

Jason Francia: Macauly Culkin.

Det. Neglia: Only he’s getting a lot more into it. Like your mother pulled you out of there. Macaulay’s mother is not going to pull him out of there. They are feeding him.

Det. Birchim: He’s doing worse stuff.

Det. Neglia: It’s much worse with him.

The police go on to implicate Corey Feldman as another victim, and suggest that Jason can help them pull Eddie and Frank Cascio away from MJ while he’s on tour! (Although none of them are mentioned by name, it’s easy to know who they’re referring to.)

Det. Neglia: He’s a junkie now. he gets arrested, he doesn’t act or anything, he gets high. He packs his nose with cocaine and he’s going to die by the time he is 22 years old.

Jason Francia: How old is he?

Det.Neglia: About 21. But that’s the kind of life he is living, and it’s got to do with being exposed to people like this, and having nobody to protect them and to take them out.

Det. Birchim: Like you had your mom.

Det. Neglia: Like your mom pulled you out and you’re, you’re candid, and you’re honesty with us is going to help us. To pull the next kid out. it might even, be too late for Macauly already. But these kids that he’s traveling with are on tour right now. Maybe we can pull them out of it…

Here is an article from February 1994 that refers to Blanca Francia’s concern over having Jason talking to police without her being present:

Officials Desperate To Nail Michael Jackson

Newsday

February 07, 1994
The child sex abuse case against Michael Jackson has taken a new – and ugly – turn.
Prosecutors in Los Angeles and Santa Barbara counties are scrambling to salvage what’s left of their criminal investigations into sex abuse allegations against the pop music star.
Los Angeles District Attorney Gil Garcetti urged state legislators last week to amend a law that now prohibits forcing people who say they have been sexually assaulted to testify in criminal proceedings.
If passed, the change would take effect immediately and allow Garcetti to compel the 14-year-old boy with whom Jackson reached an out-of-court settlement last month to testify in any criminal trials growing out of his widely reported charge that the superstar sexually abused him.
That would be a real act of legal brinksmanship.
If the lawmakers give Garcetti the power he seeks and the boy – whose doctors say he needs to put this matter behind him – refuses to testify, what would he do? Send the boy to jail?
Law enforcement officials in Santa Barbara County have taken a different – if no less desperate – approach in their pursuit of criminal charges against Jackson.
Investigators from the county sheriff’s office recently arranged for the 13-year-old son of Jackson’s former maid to see a therapist. The boy was first interviewed by police after his mother told them he had spent time alone with Jackson. According to his mother, the child has repeatedly denied being abused in any way by the pop music star.
The offer of a therapist was made after the woman, an immigrant from Central America, complained about meetings and phone conversations sheriff’s deputies had with the boy while she was not present.
It made her “feel uncomfortable,” she said in a deposition, that she didn’t know what the deputies were talking about with the young boy.
When she asked them “who should I talk to” about her concerns, they arranged for the woman and her son to see separate therapists at the county’s expense, she said in the sworn statement.
Not surprisingly, a senior official of the Santa Barbara sheriff’s department told People magazine last week that the boy who brought the original sex abuse charge against Jackson “is not the only victim out there.”
This week, a grand jury will be convened in Santa Barbara County to hear testimony concerning the Jackson case, and the bill Garcetti is pushing will be introduced in the state assembly.
And the line between justice and injustice is getting harder and harder to find.

When you look at the way that Francia and Feldman (and others) were interviewed by police, it’s clear that the police were seeking a conviction, and not justice! In fact, on October 28^th, 1993, MJ’s defense attorney Bert Fields wrote a letter to Police Chief Willie Williams about the bullying tactics that the LAPD officers were using during their interviews of children, including telling the children that they had nude photos of them!

Here are nine warning signs that an alleged victim may have been pressured into making a false accusation (taken from the article The Fallibility of Forensic Interviewing), and you’ll see that many of them apply to Jason Francia and Corey Feldman:

The Analysis of Child Interviews

The New Jersey Supreme Court found nine factors sufficient to justify a

pretrial taint hearing:

(a) Absence of spontaneous recall;

(b) Interviewer bias against defendant – a preconceived idea of what the child should be

disclosing;

(c) Repeated leading questions;

(d) Multiple interviews;

(e) Incessant questioning;

(f) Vilification of defendant;

(g) Ongoing contact with peers and references to their statements;

(h) Use of threats, bribes and cajoling; and

(i) Failure to videotape or otherwise document the initial interview sessions.

The above factors were to be considered, if a hearing is held, in determining whether a

child’s testimony is tainted and should be suppressed. Other indicators of faulty interviewing not only exist, but they can be quantified – allowing for an objective analysis.

It’s a good thing that MJ was able to hire Mesereau, but if he had not been available, I know of someone who would have been a perfect fit to defend MJ! Who is this person, you ask?

It’s Ed Chernoff! Yes, THE Ed Chernoff who defended Conrad Murray!

Did you know that his law office (Stradley, Chernoff, & Alford) defends people who have been falsely accused of child abuse? Pay attention to what Chernoff’s law firm says about police investigations!

Sex Crimes Against Children

Standing as the Voice of Reason to Protect and Defend the Accused

If you’ve been accused of a sex crime involving a child — whether child says they were molested, or you’re charged with possession of Internet child pornography — you’ve entered the realm of nightmares. Even if you are completely innocent, you are facing an uphill battle against state police and Child Protective Services, and possibly federal child sex crimes authorities.

When you are in a fight for your reputation and your freedom, you want heavy hitters on your side. Contact the Houston sex crimes defense attorneys at the Harris County law office of Stradley, Chernoff & Alford, Call 713-489-2358 for a thoughtful, realistic free consultation.

Defense for Felony or Misdemeanor Sex Charges

At Stradley, Chernoff & Alford, we defend people facing any child sex crime charge, including:

• predatory sexual assault
• child solicitation
• possession of child pornography
• sexual abuse of children or child molestation
• statutory rape
• indecent exposure or lewd conduct
• fondling or sexual battery
• sexual assault
• indecency with a child
• aggravated sexual assault of a child

Former Prosecutors Fighting for Your Defense

When you work with the defense lawyers at Stradley, Chernoff & Alford, you are no longer alone with the emotional burden of a sex crime charge. Our team of former prosecutors and former DA’s are all board-certified specialists in criminal law, certified by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization. We fight to protect our clients at every stage of their criminal case.

Police Investigations and Polygraph Tests

The inclination of a person falsely accused of this crime is to cooperate unconditionally with the accusing government. The impulse is to shout his innocence from the rooftops and rationalize with the investigating officials with the hope of stopping the insanity. Unfortunately, innocence alone will not stop this train.

Children tend to be believed when sexual accusations are made. Well meaning adults, especially those with care taking responsibilities, have an overriding interest in protecting the child at all costs. This bias drives the sex crime investigation and it will likely persist throughout, despite the many protestations of innocence from the accused.

The good news is, the madness can be stopped, and if you are reading this before you have been formally charged with a crime, you have a much better chance than most of avoiding prosecution. Information can be provided to the police that will enable them to close their investigation without recommending charges. Each case varies, but a lawyer who has superior experience in handling Sexual Assault of a Child cases will know how to get this case specific information to the officer in the right way

Not all police officers are reasonable, however our experience has been that most officers are willing to work with us when they are made to understand that we are not interested in impeding their investigation. In fact, we are trying to help them make the right charging determination. No officer is interested in being grilled on the stand for arresting an innocent man.

If you are already charged with this horrendous crime, don’t lose hope. All the way down the prosecutorial time-line, there are ways to get your case dismissed. On many occasions we have convinced the Grand Jury that there was insufficient evidence to indict. Even after indictment, months of court appearances, discovery and trial settings, we have had many cases dismissed. If the case makes it to trial, a conviction is not a foregone conclusion. If you are well represented by a lawyer who is supremely experienced in these types of cases, you can be acquitted. In fact, the majority of sex crime cases we have tried have resulted in acquittals

In some child sex crime cases it can be effective to talk to the police early in the process. But you should never talk to the police without your lawyer present.They are not on your side — we are.

Child accusers and witnesses can be easily misled or confused, and legal intervention early on can sometimes lead to charges being dropped or reduced. Defense lawyers with years of years of experience in Texas criminal courts, we know when to step forward to help a police investigation.

Did the police suggest a polygraph test to prove your innocence? People facing serious criminal charges — especially innocent people — are often quick to take a lie detector test to “prove” their innocence. Unfortunately, polygraph tests are unreliable. That’s why the results aren’t allowed in court.

Worse yet, a false positive on a lie detector test can give the impression that you are guilty. So before you take that test, cooperate with the police, or talk to Child Protective Services, talk with a lawyer.

As soon as you suspect you will be, or have been, accused of a child sex crime, contact the Houston law office of Stradley, Chernoff & Alford. When the stakes are high, put our experienced criminal defense team on your side.

You can talk to one of our lawyers for free: Call 713-489-2358

Se Habla Español

Here are bullet points that you should use when discussing Jason Francia’s testimony with skeptics or haters:

• Jason Francia was the son of Blanca Francia, a former Neverland employee who was fired for theft, and sold lies about MJ to Diane Dimond for $20k dollars.

• After the Chandler allegations became public, the police were in search of corroborating victims in order to bolster their case, and they sought Jason; he and Blanca did not seek police!

• In two interviews that took place in November 1993 and March 1994, Jason initially denied being molested, but police bullied him into a confession by saying “This is what happened, right?”, “Admit to us he did something proper!”, “He’s a great guy, bullshit!”, and they lied and told Jason that other children had been molested by MJ. Jason told police “I’ll have to work on that” when asked about his story.

• Jason denied any abuse by saying “I’ll just say this out flat, I don’t remember him trying anything with me except for the tickling!”, “You guys are pushy!”, and “They made me come out with a lot more stuff I didn’t want to say. They kept pushing. I wanted to get up and hit them in the head!”

• He said he “blacked out” during his interrogations with police. He eventually claimed he was touched on his genitals three times by MJ while being tickled in 1987, 1988, and 1990 by saying “You know, I think he did tickle me”.

• Each of the tickling sessions were playful, innocent horseplay, which Jason readily consented to and enjoyed! MJ also paid Jason money for completing books and getting A’s in school.

• After the police “convinced” Jason that he was molested, he attended counseling for 5 years, and Sneddon attended the first session.

• Blanca and Jason hired lawyers and threatened MJ with a civil lawsuit in late 1994/early 1995, and MJ was advise to settle out of court before the lawsuit was filed in order to avoid irreparable damage to his career. The settlement was for $2.4 million dollars, and did not preclude the Francia from cooperating in a criminal trial. (Hence they’re participation in the 2005 trial!)

• He didn’t know his mother Blanca was paid $20k by Hard Copy until two days before testifying, and he didn’t know about Blanca’s settlement with MJ!

• Jason participated in three police interviews in October, November, and December 2004, but couldn’t remember important details from those interviews, despite claiming to remember details from his 1993 and 1994 interviews!

• Mesereau was able to effectively show the inconsistencies in Jason’s testimony, and the jurors laughed at his testimony during a break!

• Here is another summary of Jason’s testimony from the Michael Jackson: And Justice For Some blog.

So there you have it. I have used this post to show you how Michael’s enemies have put their “faith” into action, and how even a former youth pastor could get swept up in “Michael-mania” (and I’m not talking about buying his albums! I’m talking about lying in court!)

This was one of the longest and most detailed posts that I have ever written, and it’s a sneak preview of what’s to come later this year as I summarize and analyze EVERYONE’S testimony from the 2005 trial.

After all that tedious work  and research, let’s end this post on a hilarious note! I want to inject some laughter and entertainment here, so let’s enjoy the Christian hate group known as the Westboro Baptist Church as they cover some of MJ’s greatest hits!

Read it!

God’s Mad!

God Hates The World!

In the final part of this series, I will highlight Christians who have DEFENDED Michael Jackson!