Evan Chandler – David Schwartz phone talk FULL TRANSCRIPT
Evan Chandler before surgery
Thanks to an anonymous correspondent of mine I now have a full transcript of the conversation between Evan Chandler (Jordan’s father) and David Schwartz (the boy’s stepfather) secretly taped by Dave Schwartz on July 9, 1993.
The full transcript is not easy to obtain – usually the text is quoted partially only with a random selection of ‘convenient’ passages depending on how friendly or hostile to Michael Jackson the author is.
A Friend of Michael will focus on Evan admitting that he ‘picked the nastiest son of a bitch he could find’ in order to turn it into a ‘massacre’ and on how ‘irrelevant’ it was whether it helped his son or not (all of which is correct).
A Hater of Michael will argue that Evan was acting in the best interests of the boy as he was genuinely concerned about his well-being (and that is probably correct too as you will see from the text).
Being keen on nothing but the truth I’m not in favor of one-sided opinions. The opportunity to make an independent study of Evan Chandler’s tape makes me really grateful to my correspondent though I do suspect him to be more of a doubter of Michael’s innocence than a friend. As long as the text is authentic (I hope it is!) the source where it comes from is of no importance at all. If doubters help to establish the truth about Michael Jackson so much the better – the ways the truth takes can often be most unusual.
A little bit of good must be still remaining even in the worst Michael’s haters and in the long run none of them want to be guilty of wrongful accusations of an innocent man as all of us will answer to God for what we do, so it is really in everyone’s interests if an honest, thorough and accurate research of what really happened in 1993 was finally made (the 2005 is a so nonsense case that it isn’t even worth talking about).
The conversation between Jordan Chandler’s father and stepfather provided below won’t leave any of its readers impassive and unemotional. One question will pile over another resulting in a great deal of surprises and stunning revelations about the participants’ motives, intentions and way of thinking. Among lots of other things you’ll find that:
1) Evan Chandler was NOT SURE of his suspicions about Michael – he even spoke of his ‘imagination that kills’ , the fact that he ‘was led’ to believe certain things about Michael and that he “had no idea what was going on”. His imagination was indeed so powerful that the whole thing reminded me of the classical tragedy of Othello whose mind was also so heavily poisoned by the scheming Iago that it ended in killing his innocent wife Desdemona, as you probably remember.
2) Evan called Michael ‘evil’ not so much because of his molestation suspicions but because he THOUGHT that Michael was BREAKING UP his family. There was actually nothing to break by that time – Jordan’s parents were divorced and Evan had a new wife and two small kids, and Jordan’s stepfather David who had been raising the boy since the age of 5 or 6 had also been separated from Jordan for about a year by then (approx. since August 92). No wonder the 13-year teenager was yearning for an older male’s company and stuck with Michael whom he really liked….
Evan sounds like thinking that Michael had nothing else to do but break up other people’s families. Well, for him as a father Jordan was indeed someone special, but for Michael he was no different than any other child – let me remind you that there were thousands of teenagers like Jordan who were craving for Michael’s attention, and many of them from single families not burdened by fathers or stepfathers at all. And if these children found Michael so irresistible he was not to blame for it. The attraction Michael had for children was not his fault – it was his fortune or misfortune, his drama or message in life, or whatever.
Michael surely had lots of other things to do at the time – he was forming a relationship with Lisa-Maria Presley which was only emerging at the time, was busy with rehearsals for a new leg of Dangerous tour to start in a couple of months, was composing his music, writing poetry, or attending to a thousand other matters including charity work, or all of the above taken together.
3) Evan mentioned he had ‘evidence’ to prove his worst suspicions about Michael. The heart of every Michael’s friend misses a beat of course when hearing statements like that, but WAIT A MINUTE… if the evidence was really that damning why don’t we know anything about it even NOW?
Was Evan talking about that evidence which was later scrutinized by two Grand juries in the criminal investigation of 1993/94 and which wasn’t found significant enough to bring any charges against Michael?
Was it that same evidence that was brought up at the 2005 trial thanks to Tom Sneddon’s efforts – only to be thrown away again as Michael was fully acquitted on all counts after a thorough examination of every fact since the year 1993?
Was it that same evidence the traces of which were not found in any of Michael’s computers even though he was also investigated by the FBI which kept him under their surveillance for 15 years or more?
And if there was no evidence to present either in 1993 or 2005 it means that there was NOTHING for Evan to fume over in his conversation with David Schwartz back in 1993? Oh, my God…
4) But while reading that transcript you will surely feel that Evan was truly concerned about his son’s welfare. Yes, he sounds genuine enough, but even if we do believe that Evan’s ruthless behavior was prompted not by his greed (which came later) but by the desire to protect his son against any possible harm, it will nevertheless break your heart to realize that Evan turned Michael Jackson’s life into a massacre and destroyed it just FOR NOTHING – as a result of all those groundless suspicions, work of imagination and the evidence which never existed.
5) While reading the transcript you will also probably realize that Evan Chandler’s rage was targeted at Michael but was motivated by someone totally different. To me it looks more like a nasty family squabble where a former husband takes revenge on his former wife – really cold and heartless – as well as on the man who happened to pass them by at the time and was reckless enough to become their friend.
Have I also started imagining things or did June Chandler put her hand to it TOO by making her own plans about Michael Jackson and working on a way to grab this choicest of all men as her new marriage partner? Hence all this cutting out Evan from her life and telling him to ‘go f*** himself’ instead? Didn’t she have a more important romantic business to attend to rather than listening to her former husband who was clearly in the way to her new and glamorous life?
Remember all those invitations she made to Michael to spend several days running at her home with family dinners and so on? Everyone thinks it was due to Jordan… Yes, of course, it was so convenient to give this explanation once it became clear that Michael had finally seen through her and turned her down.
So wasn’t it EVERYONE who was making plans about the unsuspecting Michael Jackson at the time?
It is your turn to decide.
TRANSCRIPT of Evan Chandler and David Schwartz talking on the phone
1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2 FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES
3
4 DAVID SCHWARTZ, AN INDIVIDUAL, )
5 PLAINTIFF, ) CASE NO.
6 VS. ) SC 031 774
7 EVAN CHANDLER, AN INDIVIDUAL, AND )
8 DOES 1 THROUGH 50, INCLUSIVE, )
9 DEFENDANTS. )
10
14 TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO CASSETTE MARKED
15 EXHIBIT NO. 10
16 D. SCHWARTZ AND E. CHANDLER
17
25 FILE NO. TPA81793.MK
1 CONVERSATION 1
2 between Dave Schwartz and Evan Chandler:
3
4 MR. CHANDLER: — discuss why it might
5 be harmful.
6 Suppose I’m right? I mean if Michael
7 loves [tape irregularity] Lisa at least want to
8 hear my opinion about why what’s going on could be
9 potentially harmful? If you love somebody, you
10 don’t want them to get hurt.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you want to talk it
12 in front of Jordy, about that?
13 MR. CHANDLER: Huh?
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you want to talk
15 about that in front of Jordy?
16 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
17 He has to be there.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: He has to be there, and
20 one of the reasons that he has to be there is
21 because he’s always gonna remember it. Somebody
22 has to be the — there’s gotta be some one person
23 that later on in life he can look back on and kind
24 of pattern himself after someone or have some
25 structure for his own existence, based on — he’ll
4
1 look at me, and he’ll say, “Yeah. He was honest,
2 he had integrity, he had respect. I could trust
3 him. He never lied to me,” all that kind of stuff.
4 He may hate me now. He may not be able
5 to articulate all of those things in his own head
6 right now, but when he sees it, it’ll be in his
7 head, and when he’s old enough there will be those
8 things that will be important to him. Hopefully
9 I’ll be able to portray those things to him,
10 because I think they’re important.
11 I also think it’s incredibly important
12 to have somebody else in your life that really
13 loves you and you really love them because if
14 you’re [tape irregularity] happy.
15 I’ve never seen a single solo, isolated
16 human being who was truly happy —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — and that’s what’s
19 going to happen to Jordy.
20 I think that’s June’s situation.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: June has nobody. You
23 tell me who June has. You tell me who June has who
24 really loves her, who she really loves back, you
25 can’t think of one person.
5
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, I can.
2 MR. CHANDLER: Who?
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Gloria.
4 MR. CHANDLER: Gloria.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Really.
6 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
7 inaudible.)
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Gloria, Nadine or Florence.
9 She’s pretty close with her friends.
10 MR. CHANDLER: Nah, she’s —
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: She’s — wait.
12 MR. CHANDLER: She believes that —
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: She’s close with you.
14 MR. CHANDLER: — four or five cups of
15 caffeine in the morning and gets on the phone and
16 yaps (inaudible) all day, you commiserate about
17 their miseries —
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: But, you know, here’s
19 the whole thing. We can’t, you know, I can’t put
20 her down that all she’s doing is hanging out. It’s
21 not so horrible.
22 MR. CHANDLER: That what?
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: That, you know, I mean,
24 she’s into hanging out.
25 MR. CHANDLER: Hanging out is okay.
6
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: I know. She’s —
2 MR. CHANDLER: Hanging out’s kind of a
3 benign thing. She’s not hanging out anymore. When
4 she stopped hanging out —
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: — and became actively
7 destructive in Jordy’s life is when I stepped in
8 and when I decided I have to do something about it.
9 I tried to talk to her about it, Dave,
10 on several occasions.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, we know she’s hard
12 to talk to.
13 MR. CHANDLER: Well, if you could — if
14 you could — yes. I mean, that’s unquestionable.
15 She is impossible to talk to. And I’ve never
16 really — I mean, I’ve gotten angry with her many
17 times and —
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: — [tape irregularity]
20 long as you’ve stepped in —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — the issue has never
23 involved potentially harming Jordy for the rest of
24 his life —
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: [Tape irregularity.]
7
1 MR. CHANDLER: — issues over Jordy
2 before that I’ve backed down —
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: — because you asked me
5 to or whatever the reason was —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: — and I’ve never
8 been — I’ve never been that set on pursuing it
9 until now because I truly believe this will damage
10 him for the rest of his life. And she will
11 not — and I’ve told her that, and I’ve tried to
12 talk to her about that —
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: — and she’s not willing
15 to talk to me about it.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: She doesn’t even want to
18 hear what might be harming him.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: She doesn’t want to
21 even know — she doesn’t want to hear any words.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: What if —
23 MR. CHANDLER: “Get out of my face.
24 Don’t even mention that.” That’s not an issue for
25 her.
8
1 I mean, what kind of person is that?
2 If — I stopped taking that personally.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, we all have
4 different ways of coping.
5 MR. CHANDLER: You see, as an adult,
6 coping’s no excuse. That’s like driving drunk and
7 saying, “I’m sorry, but I didn’t realize there was
8 a law against driving drunk” and you just ran on
9 the sidewalk.
10 The fact is you’re a responsible adult.
11 You’re supposed to have some sense and judgment,
12 and that’s how it’s going to go down.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. How about if you,
14 June and I get together?
15 MR. CHANDLER: No. Why do you keep
16 doing that?
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because I don’t — I
18 don’t want to subject Jordy to this until — I
19 mean, I feel very uncomfortable —
20 MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you
21 this way: I have a set routine of words that I’m
22 going to go in there that have been rehearsed and
23 I’m going to say.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? Because I don’t
9
1 want to say anything that could be used against me.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
3 MR. CHANDLER: So I know exactly what I
4 can say. That’s why I’m bringing the tape
5 recorder.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: I have some things on
8 paper to show a few people —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — and that’s it. My
11 whole part is going to take two or three minutes,
12 and I’m going to turn around [tape irregularity],
13 and that’s it. There’s not going to be anything
14 said, other than what I’ve been told to say —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: — and I’m going to turn
17 around and leave, and they’re going to have a
18 decision to make.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: And based on that
21 decision, I’ll decide whether or not we’re going to
22 talk again or whether it’s going to go further.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
24 MR. CHANDLER: I have to make a phone
25 call. As soon as I leave the house, I get on the
10
1 telephone.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
3 MR. CHANDLER: I make a phone call.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
5 MR. CHANDLER: Say “Go” or I say,
6 “Don’t go yet,” and that’s —
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: — the way it’s gonna to
9 be.
10 I’ve been told what to do, and I have
11 to do it.
12 I’m not — I happen to know what’s
13 going to be going on, see? They don’t have to say
14 anything to me. [Tape irregularity] “you have
15 refused to listen to me. Now you’re going to have
16 to listen to me. This is my position. Give it a
17 thought.”
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: “Think it over.”
20 I’m not saying anything bad about
21 anybody, okay? I’ve got it all on paper.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: I’m going to hand out
24 the paper so that I don’t inadvertently [tape
25 irregularity], handing out the paper, “Michael,
11
1 here’s your paper. June, here’s your paper.”
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
3 MR. CHANDLER: “Compare papers. Read
4 this whole thing. This is my feelings about it.
5 Do you want to talk further? We’ll talk again.”
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: “If you don’t” [tape
8 irregularity] — but, see, all I’m trying to do
9 now, they have forced me to go [tape irregularity]
10 on paper and give it to them to read —
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: — because [tape
13 irregularity]. I mean, isn’t that pitiful?
14 Now, why would they want to cut me out,
15 to go this far, spend this much money, spend so
16 much time in my life crying, being away from my
17 practice, not paying [tape irregularity] everybody
18 else? Why would they want to put me through that?
19 And I made it very clear to June that she was
20 putting me through that because I didn’t want any
21 misunderstandings. I’ve done everything I could to
22 appeal to her. (Inaudible) is cold and heart- —
23 absolutely cold and heartless. That’s all —
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, maybe on the
25 surface it appears like that, but I —
12
1 MR. CHANDLER: I know on the surface
2 June is charming —
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: No, no. I think on the
4 surface it might appear cold, but I don’t — I
5 don’t agree with that.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Dave, “Go fuck yourself”
7 is not a surface reaction.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Have you
9 ever — you mean you have never done that, right?
10 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
11 inaudible) and they say “Go fuck yourself,” that’s
12 not a surface —
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: You’ve never done it?
14 MR. CHANDLER: — sorry.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: You’ve never done it? I
16 mean, have you ever got pissed at a friend and
17 gotten in an argument for three weeks?
18 MR. CHANDLER: No, no, no.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Never, ever?
20 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
21 inaudible) — like that, Dave, not consistently
22 like that.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —
24 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
25 inaudible) — so far as to go to say, “Okay.
13
1 Forget about me. This is what’s going on with
2 Jordan. This is my concern,” and have her say “Go
3 fuck yourself” again. So [tape irregularity] there
4 I said, “This is not a human being I’m dealing with
5 anymore.”
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me ask you
7 this — I mean, did you give Jordy any ultimatums?
8 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Because, see,
10 that’s how he feels trapped, I think.
11 MR. CHANDLER: Too bad.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, why — I mean —
13 MR. CHANDLER: All he has to do is talk
14 to me about it.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: I know, but how can
16 you — I mean, you know what you could do — I
17 mean, couldn’t you approach it like saying, “Jordy,
18 this is how I feel. This is why communications is
19 important. We gotta discuss this.”
20 MR. CHANDLER: This is what I said to
21 Jordy. I said, “What if I asked you not to do
22 something?” That’s how I put it.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
24 MR. CHANDLER: He said, “I wouldn’t
25 care.”
14
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: That’s what he said.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, what’s wrong with
4 that?
5 MR. CHANDLER: What’s wrong?
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I mean, what is
7 wrong with that?
8 MR. CHANDLER: Well, let me ask you
9 this: Never in his life, ever, would he
10 have — did he ever respond that way or would he
11 have ever responded that way —
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
13 MR. CHANDLER: — which means that
14 something has happened inside of him and in his
15 life that is now making him respond to me in a
16 totally different way. What has happened to him?
17 His mother’s changed, and Michael’s in his life,
18 and you weren’t there to balance it out. And
19 that’s it.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, and I wasn’t
21 there, and you’re right.
22 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: I wasn’t there to
24 discuss it with him.
25 MR. CHANDLER: So the whole thing
15
1 happened.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
3 MR. CHANDLER: And that’s it.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: So blame me.
5 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, I’m not blaming you.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: But it is my fault.
7 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
8 inaudible).
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: It’s my fault. I wasn’t
10 there to —
11 MR. CHANDLER: No, no. You don’t
12 understand. We’re gonna see whose fault it is.
13 And I’m gonna tell you: It isn’t up to you to
14 decide whose fault it is or up to me to decide
15 whose fault it is. Other people who are trained to
16 [tape irregularity] whose fault it is are going to
17 make that decision, and I’ll bet you anything that
18 they don’t decide that it’s your fault. You’re not
19 going to get blamed, and you can go and say
20 whatever you want. No one’s [tape irregularity]
21 they may say, “That’s very nice. Get the fuck out
22 of here, and let’s get down to the real issues,”
23 but that’s it. That’s what’s going to happen. I’m
24 not getting blamed and you’re not getting blamed.
25 And that’s — I mean —
16
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: But no one should get
2 blamed. I mean —
3 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
4 inaudible) talking about bottom line because that’s
5 what it’s really going to come down to —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: — bottom line, no one’s
8 gonna give a shit about you in this issue.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: So when you tell me that
11 I should blame you, that’s not the bottom line.
12 That’s not how it’s going to be seen (simultaneous,
13 inaudible).
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: But does there have to
15 be where someone’s at fault? Can’t it be where we
16 just work it out?
17 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you see — yeah.
18 That’s why I tried to get in touch with them, to
19 (simultaneous, inaudible) work it out —
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, well, but
21 that’s — wait.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — but they don’t want
23 to talk to me.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Well, that’s not
25 true. That is not true.
17
1 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
2 inaudible) till tomorrow —
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Have you ever gone
4 through a period where you just didn’t — wait. Of
5 course you have. Of course you have.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Dave —
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: When I screamed at
8 Monique to get you to call me.
9 MR. CHANDLER: So what? That was one
10 day. Two days.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: But it didn’t
12 matter — it can’t count the days.
13 MR. CHANDLER: Well, I have to count
14 the days because I can’t let it go on forever.
15 By the way, they’re going on tour on
16 August 15th. They’re going to be gone. They’re
17 going to be out of the country —
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: — for four months.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Is that bad?
21 MR. CHANDLER: Well, I’m not going to
22 be able to communicate with them about this when
23 they’re gone, am I?
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, but you think
25 that —
18
1 MR. CHANDLER: By the way, they’re not
2 going.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: They don’t know that
5 yet, but they are not going.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: So, I mean, especially
8 if they don’t show up tomorrow, they’re definitely
9 not going. They’ll be lucky if Michael even —
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Let me ask you — let me
11 ask you this —
12 MR. CHANDLER: — tour (inaudible) get
13 canceled.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me — let me
15 ask you this: I mean, why can’t you meet — why
16 can’t we meet after I get off work?
17 MR. CHANDLER: Because —
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, why not? What’s
19 the difference?
20 MR. CHANDLER: Seems to me it’s not
21 important enough for you to take off work to be —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: It is important enough,
23 but I still —
24 MR. CHANDLER: Fuck your job.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.
19
1 MR. CHANDLER: It’s still going to be
2 there at 8:35. This whole thing’s going to take
3 five minutes.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
5 MR. CHANDLER: I’ve already told you I
6 have — I’m not allowed to say anything more —
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: — than I’ve already
9 prepared. It’s on paper.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Is it your —
11 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not going in to —
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Is it because of your
13 attorney?
14 MR. CHANDLER: What?
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because of your
16 attorney?
17 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why don’t we meet at
19 your attorney’s office?
20 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s something
21 we can do if we get past tomorrow.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: He’s willing to meet
24 with them. Right now he’d like to kill them all.
25 I picked the nastiest mother-fucker I could find.
20
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: The only reason that I’m
3 meeting with them tomorrow is, the real fact of the
4 matter is —
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: — because of Monique.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: Monique begged me to do
9 it.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: She said, “You’re out of
12 control” —
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Can Monique be there?
14 MR. CHANDLER: Tomorrow?
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: She wanted to be there,
17 but —
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: I want her to be there.
19 MR. CHANDLER: I wouldn’t let her.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why? Why not?
21 MR. CHANDLER: Because June hates
22 Monique.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s not true.
24 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you know
25 something?
21
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: That is not true —
2 MR. CHANDLER: Now —
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: — at all.
4 MR. CHANDLER: Well, really! Well,
5 then that makes Jordy a liar, and that makes
6 Michael a liar.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
8 MR. CHANDLER: They both told me that
9 Monique — that June —
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. You can’t see
11 that whole thing?
12 MR. CHANDLER: What?
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s woman jealousy.
14 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t care what —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: It doesn’t matter —
16 MR. CHANDLER: The problem is you’re in
17 love with her so you keep on making excuses.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.
19 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not in love with her
20 anymore. I don’t even like her anymore.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: You don’t know about
22 female jealousy?
23 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t care about that.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: That has nothing —
25 MR. CHANDLER: (Inaudible) Dave.
22
1 That’s pathologic. I don’t want that affecting —
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s not pathologic.
3 That is the bottom line.
4 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
5 inaudible) pathologic. I don’t care what the
6 reason is. I don’t care. I’m not playing
7 psychiatrist and analyzing.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why wouldn’t you
9 want Monique there? I would feel much more
10 comfortable.
11 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
12 inaudible), that’s why.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
14 MR. CHANDLER: Because June hates her,
15 so I don’t want to —
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: She does not hate her.
17 MR. CHANDLER: Of course she hates her.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: She totally respects her
19 and doesn’t hate her.
20 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then, Jordy is a
21 liar and Michael (inaudible) —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — because they told me
24 verbatim, together —
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah?
23
1 MR. CHANDLER: — that June hates
2 Monique.
3 In fact, they went even further and
4 told me several of the things that June said about
5 Monique.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? Now, maybe they
8 went back and told June that Monique said things
9 about her and —
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: — (inaudible) lied.
12 Maybe they’re lying. I don’t know. But knowing
13 June, I don’t think that they lied. I think
14 they’re telling me the truth.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: And I want Monique out
17 of this completely.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: Because all that will
20 happen is that June will convince Jordy that
21 Monique’s a bad person and by her presence there
22 she must have put me up to this whole thing —
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
24 MR. CHANDLER: — and June will
25 fabricate some great lie —
24
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Ahhh.
2 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
3 inaudible) I’m only going there because of Monique,
4 because, to tell you the truth, Dave, it would be a
5 lot easier for me and a lot more satisfying —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: — to see everybody get
8 destroyed —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — like they’ve
11 destroyed me, but it would be a lot easier.
12 And Monique just kept telling me, “You
13 don’t want to really do this,” and she finally
14 [tape irregularity] for the sake of everything that
15 we’ve all had in the past —
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: — to give it one more
18 try, and that’s the only reason, because this
19 attorney I found — I mean, I interviewed several,
20 and I picked the nastiest son of a bitch —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — I could find, and all
23 he wants to do is get this out in the public as
24 fast as he can, as big as he can —
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25
1 MR. CHANDLER: — and humiliate as many
2 people as he can, and he’s got a bad [tape
3 irregularity] —
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that’s
5 good?
6 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
7 inaudible) he’s costing me a lot of money.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that’s
9 good?
10 MR. CHANDLER: I think that’s great. I
11 think it’s terrific. The best. Because when
12 somebody — when somebody tells you that they don’t
13 want to talk to you —
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: — you have to talk to
16 them —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — you have to get their
19 attention. It’s a matter of life and death.
20 That’s how I’m taking it. I have to talk to them.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: This is life and death
23 for my son. I have to get their attention. If I
24 don’t get it, if I haven’t gotten it on the phone
25 and I don’t get it tomorrow —
26
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: — this guy will
3 certainly get it. That’s the next step. And you
4 want to know something? I even have somebody after
5 him if he doesn’t [tape irregularity]. But I don’t
6 want [tape malfunctioned]. I’m not kidding. I
7 mean what I told you before.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
9 MR. CHANDLER: It’s true. I mean, it
10 could be a massacre if I don’t get what I want.
11 But I do believe this person will get what he
12 wants.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: So he would just really
15 love [tape irregularity] nothing better than to
16 have this go forward. He is nasty, he is mean —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — he is very smart
19 [tape irregularity], and he’s hungry for the
20 publicity [tape irregularity] better for him.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: And that’s where it’ll
23 go —
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: You don’t think everyone
25 loses?
27
1 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
2 inaudible) totally humiliate him in every way —
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: That — everyone doesn’t
4 lose in that?
5 MR. CHANDLER: That’s not the issue.
6 See, the issue is that if I have to go that far —
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: — I can’t stop and
9 think “Who wins and who loses?”
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: All I can think about is
12 I only have one goal, and the goal is to get their
13 attention —
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: — so that [tape
16 irregularity] concerns are, and as long as they
17 don’t want to talk to me, I can’t tell them what my
18 concerns are, so I have to go step by step, each
19 time escalating the attention-getting mechanism,
20 and that’s all I regard him as, as an
21 attention-getting mechanism.
22 Unfortunately, after that, it’s totally
23 out of [tape irregularity]. It’ll take on so much
24 momentum of its own that it’s going to be out of
25 all our control. It’s going to be monumentally
28
1 huge, and I’m not going to have any way to stop it.
2 No one else is either at that point. I mean, once
3 I make that phone call, this guy’s just going to
4 destroy everybody in site in any devious, nasty,
5 cruel way that he can do it. And I’ve given him
6 full authority to do that.
7 To go beyond tomorrow, that would mean
8 I have done every possible thing in my individual
9 power to tell them to sit down and talk to me; and
10 if they still [tape irregularity], I got to
11 escalate the attention-getting mechanism. He’s the
12 next one. I can’t go to somebody nice [tape
13 irregularity]. It doesn’t work with them. I
14 already found that out. Get some niceness and just
15 go fuck yourself.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: Basically, what they
18 have to know, ultimately, is that their lives are
19 over, if they don’t sit down. One way or the
20 other, it’ll either go to the next step or the
21 [tape irregularity]. I’m not stopping until I get
22 their attention.
23 Do I [tape irregularity] the only goal
24 is right now I have to do what I think is best for
25 Jordy —
29
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: — and I think what’s
3 going on now is bad for Jordy, and therefore any
4 alternative is better.
5 If I’m wrong, they should sit down, and
6 they should tell me why I’m wrong.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: But —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: So wouldn’t you sit down
10 with me, and we could discuss it first?
11 MR. CHANDLER: No, because you don’t
12 know the issues.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but you could tell
14 me.
15 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
16 inaudible) totally ignorant of all the issues.
17 No. There’s really no way you could
18 relate these to somebody, you know.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah? Well, sure you
20 could.
21 MR. CHANDLER: Like it’ll get related.
22 It’ll get related, you know. You’ll see it.
23 You’ll see it, and it’s not going to be up for me
24 or you to decide.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Can you meet him here at
30
1 work?
2 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, no. I’m going to
3 meet at the house.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why can’t you meet here?
5 MR. CHANDLER: Well, for one thing,
6 Michael has to be there.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Michael will
8 come.
9 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
10 inaudible) won’t be at Rent a Wreck.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Michael would come here.
12 MR. CHANDLER: Well, how do you know
13 that?
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’ll see. I mean, if
15 he’ll come here, will you do it here?
16 MR. CHANDLER: No. Why?
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because it’s easier for
18 me.
19 MR. CHANDLER: So you could be at work?
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: No. So I don’t have to
21 leave.
22 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
23 inaudible) signals.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
25 MR. CHANDLER: You keep giving me
31
1 these —
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: It’s not crossed
3 signals. I’m telling you it’s — I’m here every
4 second. It’s difficult to get away.
5 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you have to get
6 your priorities —
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but my priority is
8 this, but, I mean, you can compromise for me.
9 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
10 inaudible) tell me this is very difficult choice,
11 you know, your children or your work.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Hey, it’s not a
13 difficult choice.
14 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: But it’s just —
16 MR. CHANDLER: — the issue, then. Be
17 it —
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: It makes it — wait.
19 What’s the difference —
20 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
21 inaudible) work by 9:00 o’clock.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: What is the difference
23 for you? I mean, it makes it easier for me. Is it
24 different for you?
25 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
32
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Why is it
2 different?
3 MR. CHANDLER: What if I told you their
4 house was wired?
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Does that make a
7 difference?
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
9 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not saying it is.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: I’m just saying, “What
12 if it was?”
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, well —
14 MR. CHANDLER: Would that — would
15 you — could you see the [tape irregularity].
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Then you want to
17 record it.
18 MR. CHANDLER: Let’s just say that it
19 is.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: Let’s just say that.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
23 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not saying it is.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
25 MR. CHANDLER: But let’s just say that
33
1 it was. Okay? That would make a difference.
2 (Inaudible)?
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. You got to do me
4 one favor.
5 MR. CHANDLER: What?
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. The way we’ve
7 just talked is completely — the way you’ve sounded
8 is completely different than when I talked to you
9 the first time. I mean, you gotta be —
10 MR. CHANDLER: Well, (inaudible)
11 talking tomorrow, Dave.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
13 MR. CHANDLER: I told you, it’s all on
14 paper.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: That’s why I’m bringing
17 a tape recorder.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but are you going
19 to be calm like this?
20 MR. CHANDLER: I have nothing to say.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not going to be
23 calm. I’m not going to be anything. I’m not going
24 to be — I’m going to be totally void of anything.
25 I’m just going to say, “Look. Here’s something for
34
1 you guys to read. You read it. You think it
2 over.”
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: “If you want to sit down
5 and talk, we can all meet in my attorney’s office.”
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: “If you want to tell me
8 to go fuck myself, then just let me know that” —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — “and I’ll let him
11 know that’s what your feelings are.”
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, why do you —
13 MR. CHANDLER: — and that has
14 to — that has to happen before 12:00 o’clock
15 tomorrow. They have to make that decision —
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And let me ask
17 you this —
18 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
19 inaudible) don’t hear from them about it, then the
20 wheels start —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why do you have to have
22 Jordy there, if all we’re going to do is read it?
23 MR. CHANDLER: I tried to explain that
24 to you.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: No. If we have to read
35
1 something.
2 MR. CHANDLER: Because I explained that
3 to you. I want him to see how I’m behaving.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
5 MR. CHANDLER: I want him to see how
6 I’m acting.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And why do you
8 have to have Michael there?
9 MR. CHANDLER: What’s that beeping
10 going on? Do you hear that?
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: Are you recording this?
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: No.
14 MR. CHANDLER: Do you hear the beeping?
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: Well, let’s hang up.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
18 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Bye.
1 (Tape 1, Side B begins:)
2
3 CONVERSATION 30
4 between Dave Schwartz and Evan Chandler:
5
6 (Dial tone.)
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Hey, Ev.
8 MR. CHANDLER: Hi, Dave.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: How you doing?
10 Thanks for calling me back.
11 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. I’m in the car.
12 I’m on the way home.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
14 MR. CHANDLER: Where are you?
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’m at work.
16 MR. CHANDLER: You’re at [tape
17 irregularity].
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: You want to come by
19 here?
20 MR. CHANDLER: No. I’m wasted, Man.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but I’m — we
22 gotta talk this out.
23 MR. CHANDLER: Nothing to talk about.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Of course we can talk it
25 out.
126
1 MR. CHANDLER: Just be there tomorrow
2 if you want to hear what I want to say. That’s
3 all. And if they’re not there, then there’s
4 nothing that anybody has to say, and that’s the end
5 of it.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me ask you
7 this:
8 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: What if like, say, June
10 and I are there?
11 MR. CHANDLER: No good.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
13 MR. CHANDLER: They all have to be
14 there.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: They all have to be
16 there.
17 In fact, if anybody were missing, it
18 would be June that I wouldn’t care the most.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Who?
20 MR. CHANDLER: June. The one that I
21 car the most about —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. How about if
23 Jordy and I go?
24 MR. CHANDLER: No. Jordy and you?
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
127
1 MR. CHANDLER: And me?
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
3 MR. CHANDLER: No.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
5 MR. CHANDLER: That’s silly. No.
6 Michael has to be there. Michael has to be there.
7 He’s the main one. He’s the one I want.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think
9 he’s a bad guy?
10 MR. CHANDLER: Michael?
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: He’s an evil guy. He’s
13 worse than bad.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And why do you
15 believe that?
16 MR. CHANDLER: Huh?
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why do you believe that?
18 MR. CHANDLER: I have the evidence to
19 prove it.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: You’ll believe it, too,
22 when you hear —
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Let me ask you
24 something. I mean, you trust me, right?
25 MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you
128
1 this way, Dave. Nobody in this world was allowed
2 to come between this family of June, me and Jordy.
3 That was the hard [tape irregularity] be the
4 opposite. That’s evil. That’s one reason why he’s
5 evil.
6 I spoke to him about it, Dave. I even
7 told him that [tape irregularity] the family.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: When did you talk to
9 him?
10 MR. CHANDLER: About that?
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: Months ago. When I
13 first met him I told him that.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: That’s the law. That’s
16 the first thing he knew. Nobody’s allowed to do
17 that. Now there’s no family anymore.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: I mean
20 Jordy’s — Jordy’s my life. Period.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: How does this help it.
22 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
23 inaudible) my life.
24 What?
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: How does this help it?
129
1 MR. CHANDLER: It doesn’t. It doesn’t.
2 I don’t know how it’ll help it. It can’t hurt it
3 anymore. It’s — I have — that’s why I have
4 nothing to lose.
5 I made this really clear to them. If
6 they’re all there, we could all sit and talk. If
7 they’re not there —
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me ask —
9 okay.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — taking it out of my
11 hands, and there won’t be any talking anymore.
12 They have a chance. They have a chance to talk it
13 out.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: If they’re not in a
16 calm, peaceful manner —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — even said you can be
19 there. You could be there. I’m not going to do
20 anything with you there. Michael can come with 20
21 bodyguards and all with guns if he wants to. He
22 can even come there with his [tape irregularity].
23 I don’t care. All I’m saying is everybody who’s a
24 party to this (inaudible) sit down and talk about
25 it.
130
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I don’t disagree
2 with that.
3 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: No, we’re not. See,
5 now —
6 MR. CHANDLER: — don’t want to be
7 there, then they have made it to the point where I
8 can’t talk to them about it —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: No.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — so I have to force
11 them to the table —
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, no. I don’t
13 disagree with everyone sits down and talks about
14 it.
15 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s what I’m
16 calling — that’s what I called him about. Hello?
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: You mean, that was the
18 message on the machine?
19 MR. CHANDLER: No. The man — yeah.
20 That was the message on the machine. It said
21 they’d better be there, because on the other times
22 they tried — hello?
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
24 MR. CHANDLER: The other times I tried
25 to tell them that I needed to talk to them, all I
131
1 got was, “Go fuck yourself. We’re not talking to
2 you.”
3 So now I had to let them know and make
4 sure that they know they’d [tape irregularity]
5 they’re gonna get hurt by it, so (inaudible) — I
6 had to make [tape irregularity] if they don’t sit
7 down and talk to me they’re gonna get hurt. They
8 can’t keep telling me to go fuck myself anymore.
9 They have to talk. I want to talk to them. I
10 don’t want to hurt anybody. They’re forcing me to
11 do it. They’re forcing me to do it by refusing to
12 sit down and talk to me. That’s all I ask for.
13 “You sit down and you talk to me [tape
14 irregularity] side of the story, I’ll listen to
15 yours, we all sit down and see how it could be
16 resolved.”
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. So that’s
18 there —
19 MR. CHANDLER: That’s all I ask for.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but —
21 MR. CHANDLER: Michael can come with
22 all his bodyguards and his lawyer if he wants to.
23 I don’t really care, as long as everything gets
24 aired out. That’s it. And if I walk away
25 dissatisfied, then I’ll take it to the next step.
132
1 That’s all. If they walk away dissatisfied, they
2 have the right to do that, too. At least [tape
3 irregularity] nothing will get resolved except for
4 the fact that we’ll agree to meet again and talk
5 about it.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t know where it’ll
8 go, but I’m saying is that when people — when
9 you — when people cut off communication totally,
10 you only have two choices: To forget about them,
11 or you get frustrated by their action. I can’t
12 forget about them. I love them. That’s it. I
13 don’t like them. I still love Jordy, but I do not
14 like them because I do not like the people that
15 they’ve become, but I do love them, and because I
16 love them I don’t want to see them [tape
17 irregularity]. That’s why I was willing to talk.
18 I have nothing to gain by talking. If
19 I go through with this, I win big time. There’s no
20 way that I lose. I’ve checked that out inside out.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: But when you say
22 “winning,” what are you talking about, “winning”?
23 MR. CHANDLER: I will get everything I
24 want, and they will be totally — they will be
25 destroyed forever. They will be destroyed. June
133
1 is gonna lose Jordy. She will have no right to
2 ever see him again.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: That’s a fact, Dave.
5 That’s what —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Does that help —
7 MR. CHANDLER: — Michael the career
8 will be over.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Does that help Jordy?
10 MR. CHANDLER: Michael’s career will be
11 over.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: And does that help
13 Jordy?
14 MR. CHANDLER: It’s irrelevant to me.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but I mean the
16 bottom line is —
17 MR. CHANDLER: The bottom line to me
18 is, yes, June is harming him, and Michael is
19 harming him. I can prove that, and I will prove
20 that
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — and if they force me
23 to go to court about it, I will [tape
24 irregularity], and I will be granted custody. She
25 will have no rights whatsoever.
134
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: Now, I’m willing to sit
3 down and talk to her. If she wants to tell me to
4 go fuck myself after that, she’s welcome to do it,
5 and then she’ll either be right or wrong. [tape
6 irregularity] I’ll win, maybe I’ll lose. I have
7 the [tape irregularity]
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: [tape irregularity] for
9 custody?
10 MR. CHANDLER: Forget the custody
11 thing. It’s gonna go further than that.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: But what’s the
13 bottom — I mean, what is the bottom line, though?
14 MR. CHANDLER: What do you mean?
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: The bottom line is, I
16 mean, your responsibility and my responsibility —
17 MR. CHANDLER: The bottom line
18 (simultaneous, inaudible) what I want?
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: No —
20 MR. CHANDLER: Is that what you’re
21 saying?
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I mean —
23 MR. CHANDLER: — what I want?
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, what’s our
25 responsibility in life, really?
135
1 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you don’t have any
2 right —
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: The kids is the number
4 one —
5 MR. CHANDLER: — to discuss that.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: What?
7 MR. CHANDLER: You don’t have any right
8 to discuss that.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
10 MR. CHANDLER: You’re a negligent
11 father. You don’t have a right, by your own
12 admission before. You told me that you were
13 negligent.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: You were negligent to
16 Jordy, and you’ve been negligent to Kelly.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: In a court — in a court
19 of law, June could prove you negligent in one flat
20 fucking second.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. So?
22 MR. CHANDLER: You don’t have any right
23 to all of a sudden decide that you’re going to be a
24 good father or have a conversation about what’s
25 right to do. I’ve never condemned you for it. I
136
1 know what you’re going through [tape irregularity]
2 that. I understand you have to stay away in order
3 to be a normal human being. I understand that, but
4 no one’s gonna give a shit about that in court.
5 You and I live [tape irregularity] but
6 I’m still living through it every day at my office,
7 and it’s just bad for me too, believe me, and I
8 understand you really well, and I know why [tape
9 irregularity] she’ll make you look bad in one
10 second.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I don’t disagree
12 with that.
13 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Well, this time
14 it’s gonna be the other way around because
15 she — you see, I love him so much that I’m willing
16 to destroy my own life to protect him —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — to do what I think is
19 the best thing to do, not just — it’s not what I
20 think. I’ve gotten professional [tape
21 irregularity] everybody agrees that the only thing
22 that was insane is that I didn’t step in a long —
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: This is —
24 MR. CHANDLER: This is —
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: — detrimental to him?
137
1 MR. CHANDLER: Extremely harmful to
2 him.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: Everybody agrees with
5 that. I mean, they — it’s their opinions that
6 have convinced me to not stay away.
7 You know, I’m not confrontational.
8 I’ve got an [tape irregularity] inclination to do
9 what you do, say, “Okay. Go fuck yourself. Go do
10 what you want to do, and, you know, call me some
11 day. I’ll see you then. I got a [tape
12 irregularity],” but I’ve been so convinced by
13 professional opinions that I have been negligent in
14 not stepping in sooner that now it’s made me
15 insane. Now I actually feel [tape irregularity] —
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh, I do, and I —
17 MR. CHANDLER: — [tape irregularity]
18 more important than the money, if the kid’s more
19 important that you are, and they’re more important
20 than I am —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: And they are.
22 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Then —
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: But let me ask —
24 MR. CHANDLER: — by action, Dave.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay, but —
138
1 MR. CHANDLER: Staying away from the
2 family is not a good way of indicating that you
3 care about your family. It’s a copout, and you —
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I don’t know if
5 it’s a copout. It might be the —
6 MR. CHANDLER: My feeling is, Dave, my
7 feeling is that when you have really good
8 communication with somebody, you don’t have to stay
9 away from them.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, what happens when
11 you —
12 MR. CHANDLER: — agree, but at least
13 you could talk. You know, as long as you’re
14 talking, nobody’s gonna get hurt. When the talking
15 stops, that’s when people get hurt.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And that’s what
17 happened with you?
18 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, that’s what
19 happened with me. They won’t return my phone
20 calls. June called me once last week.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: She told me to go fuck
23 myself. Not in those words.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25 MR. CHANDLER: But you don’t have to
139
1 say it in those words.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: But you know June.
3 MR. CHANDLER: I —
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, you know her
5 thing is that she has to get the last word in.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Well, she isn’t this
7 time, Dave, and you want to know something —
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but you put her
9 down for that?
10 MR. CHANDLER: Do I put her down?
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: For that?
12 MR. CHANDLER: I never did before, but
13 when her getting her last word is now going to be
14 harmful to Jordy, yes, I am going to step in, and,
15 again, I’m not telling you this is my — my opinion
16 was formed by —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — but this is my
19 perception of [tape irregularity] professional
20 opinions to make sure I wasn’t going off the deep
21 end here.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: And all I’m telling you
24 is — I’ve always said this to June, and I’ve said
25 this to Monique also, and I’ll say this to anybody
140
1 I can. No matter what I do, you’re wrong
2 automatically if you don’t sit down and talk about
3 it, because my feeling is [tape irregularity] and
4 you [tape irregularity] talk anything will be
5 worked out. But as soon as you cut off
6 communication you only frustrate the other person.
7 And that makes — and that makes you wrong [tape
8 irregularity] worse that way.
9 You say to them, “I don’t care enough
10 about you to sit down and talk.”
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: I don’t disagree with
12 that.
13 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s all I was
14 asking. I’ve asked them for a month to sit down
15 and talk to me, and I’m very disturbed and very
16 concerned. I want them to hear my concerns.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: Let them just tell me
19 why I’m wrong. Let them just tell me that [tape
20 irregularity] detrimental, et cetera. Let them
21 just tell me that. And maybe I’ll disagree with
22 them, and then we’ll take it from there.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: But at least you can
24 talk about it.
25 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. I mean, they will
141
1 not talk.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —
3 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
4 inaudible) forced me —
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —
6 MR. CHANDLER: What do I do? I mean,
7 in the opinion of these experts, I would be a
8 negligent father if I did not do what I am now
9 doing.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: In fact, in their
12 opinion I have been negligent not to put a stop to
13 [tape irregularity] opinion.
14 I happen to agree with them now. I
15 didn’t agree with them at first.
16 Michael [tape irregularity] nice [tape
17 irregularity] —
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: So why do you think he’s
19 not nice?
20 MR. CHANDLER: Why? Because he broke
21 up the family, that’s why.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: And he was put on notice
24 from the first sentence out of my mouth was,
25 “Michael, I think you’re really a great guy.
142
1 You’re welcome into the family, as long as you are
2 who you seem to be, but don’t take anything [tape
3 irregularity].” I mean, that to me was the worst
4 thing anybody could do to me.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: And you think he did it?
6 MR. CHANDLER: Well, Dave, if he wasn’t
7 in the picture, everything would be as it was.
8 I’m not —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: But that’s sort of —
10 MR. CHANDLER: — saying that he did it
11 premeditatively, and I’m not saying he did it on
12 his own.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: I’m saying that he might
15 have — it might have just evolved that way, and it
16 might have evolved that [tape irregularity] desire,
17 so I’m blaming all three of them, but when I come
18 to that [tape irregularity], it really makes me
19 hate June because the family was inviolate, [tape
20 irregularity] felt about it. There was nothing I
21 had.
22 I mean, you came in this family and
23 made it better. It was great. Someone else comes
24 along and breaks it up.
25 You know how [tape irregularity].
143
1 Okay. So do I [tape irregularity] coming into the
2 family who’s going to do good things for the
3 family.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: But, I mean —
5 MR. CHANDLER: Michael divided and
6 conquered, Dave.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: He what?
8 MR. CHANDLER: He divided and
9 conquered.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —
11 MR. CHANDLER: He did, Dave. He did.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh —
13 MR. CHANDLER: June and I agreed on the
14 issue, whether it was her side or my side. If we
15 both thought the same way [tape irregularity] any
16 frustration. The fact is we both do not think the
17 same way, and he — and I sincerely believe that he
18 either consciously [tape irregularity] manipulated
19 that. I think he consciously manipulated that
20 because Michael Jackson [tape irregularity] the
21 smartest streetwise people —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — that I’ve ever met,
24 and if you sit down and have any long conversations
25 with him, [tape irregularity] that guy is extremely
144
1 bright.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: So is that good or bad?
3 MR. CHANDLER: That he’s bright?
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
5 MR. CHANDLER: I think that if you use
6 it for bad then you’re evil.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, do you think he’s
8 sensitive?
9 MR. CHANDLER: Do I what?
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, you know him a
11 lot better than I know him. I don’t know him. I
12 mean, I’ve talked to him a couple times, but —
13 MR. CHANDLER: I thought I knew him.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think he’s
15 sensitive?
16 MR. CHANDLER: I think he’s totally
17 insensitive. I think he’s sensitive — I think
18 he’s an extremely selfish person.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that he
20 knows what was going on?
21 MR. CHANDLER: Of course he knows that.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, this is the
23 bottom line. The bottom line is I abandoned the
24 family.
25 MR. CHANDLER: What?
145
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: The bottom line is I
2 abandoned the family. That’s the bottom line.
3 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
4 inaudible) line —
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: — so this is —
6 MR. CHANDLER: The bottom line
7 is — the bottom line is he took Jordy out of the
8 family with June’s help.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, yes and no, but, I
10 mean, there’s a lot of things, and I — I mean,
11 you’re bright, you’re sensitive —
12 MR. CHANDLER: Why don’t I put it this
13 way, Dave. If you were there all the time, living
14 in that house —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: It wouldn’t have
16 happened.
17 MR. CHANDLER: That’s right. It
18 wouldn’t have even had a chance to happen.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: It wouldn’t have
20 happened, and I — it’s all my fault.
21 MR. CHANDLER: No, it isn’t all your
22 fault.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: It is definitely a
24 hundred percent my fault.
25 MR. CHANDLER: I’ll tell you what.
146
1 Whenever you have an argument with somebody, when I
2 have an argument with Monique, when you have an
3 argument with June, if I have an argument with you,
4 it’s rarely one sided. There’s almost — you know,
5 there’s always two sides to every —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. There’s ten sides
7 to every —
8 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
9 inaudible) you can’t tell me, realistically, that
10 June didn’t frustrate the hell out of you so many
11 times that you finally left the house just to be
12 sane, just to be alone and come back to your own
13 sanity to get anyplace with her.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know, I agree
15 with that completely, but the only thing is
16 what — see, I haven’t only done it with June. I
17 do it in every other relationship and in my work
18 relationships.
19 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then —
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: So it’s my hangup.
21 MR. CHANDLER: — problem with that,
22 then that problem has ultimately ended up bringing
23 the family to this point. But you’re not solely to
24 blame for it. It doesn’t mean that June was
25 still — I didn’t do anything that — they didn’t
147
1 have the right to take my kid away from me, to
2 break up the family.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —
4 I’m in my garage. Can I call you back
5 from the house?
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: At the same number?
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
9 MR. CHANDLER: If I don’t call you back
10 in five minutes it means it’s off my pager. Call
11 me at the house.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
13 MR. CHANDLER: I’m in the garage right
14 now.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
16 MR. CHANDLER: Bye.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Bye.
18 —o0o—
19 ///
20 ///
21 ///
22
23
24
25
148
1 CONVERSATION 31
2 between Dave Schwartz and Evan Chandler:
3
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Hi.
5 MR. CHANDLER: Hi. I’m on a cordless
6 phone, so let’s not use —
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Don’t you have a regular
8 phone?
9 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, but it’s in the
10 kitchen, and I don’t want to go upstairs.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
12 MR. CHANDLER: I’m still wasted, Man.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Not as tired as me. Oh,
14 you’re probably as tired as me.
15 MR. CHANDLER: Well, I mean, we just
16 don’t — we don’t have to mention any names.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. If we could do
18 this: If — I’m telling you, and you know
19 I — just talking it out, I mean, I have a definite
20 communication problem in my — I mean, what happens
21 is when I get frustrated or I — I mean, I just
22 withdraw. I’ve been doing it forever. I mean,
23 I’ve done it forever with everything, and it works,
24 you know, for — it works for me. I mean because I
25 get through it and it just works and then I’m back
149
1 and it’s no —
2 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, except do you want
3 to know something? That can also be — you think
4 that that’s the best way to do something, but if
5 you look at it closely, I mean, I’ve always been
6 that way too. Nothing’s really worked (inaudible)
7 confrontation, and nothing’s as big a deal as it
8 seems [tape irregularity] —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh, yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — except — and so you
11 back off, and everything sort of takes care of
12 itself —
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, in time.
14 MR. CHANDLER: — except in this time
15 my looking the other way and my failing to deal
16 with the issues have harmed my son greatly. I
17 believe that.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, are you talking
19 about harmed him in the relationship with you?
20 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s for sure.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: But —
22 MR. CHANDLER: — (inaudible) forever.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know, I think
24 he’s frustrated about me and maybe taking it out on
25 you.
150
1 MR. CHANDLER: No.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because — no. He has
3 said a few things in the past. You know, I’ve
4 disappeared for, you know, long periods of time.
5 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, you have.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right. And he has
7 mentioned — you know, he’s a real sensitive kid —
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why do you take
9 total blame for it? It’s never one person’s fault.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Now I’m telling you it’s
11 my fault. I know it’s my fault, and —
12 MR. CHANDLER: You see —
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: — whatever —
14 MR. CHANDLER: — you think by doing
15 that you might be — you might be doing a lot of
16 harm.
17 How many times can an [tape
18 irregularity] — when there’s two human beings
19 involved, there’s two sides to the story. I mean,
20 it’s automatic. Two people could witness the same
21 story in two different ways. What I’m saying is
22 that I was married to June. I’ve known June
23 since —
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. For a long time.
25 MR. CHANDLER: — ’71 or something like
151
1 that, so what I’m saying is that I know her really
2 well. I think I do. Maybe I don’t. I guess I
3 don’t because I suddenly saw a part of her — a
4 side of her which I really hate.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but they’re into
6 survival.
7 MR. CHANDLER: What do you mean?
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: They’re into survival —
9 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
10 inaudible) are you talking about? What do you mean
11 “survival”? Because why? What makes it — what do
12 you mean?
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I mean, they don’t
14 know what’s going on. I have made them — June’s
15 real macho —
16 MR. CHANDLER: That’s exactly right.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: — on the surface, and
18 underneath she’s just insecure like all of us.
19 Everyone is.
20 MR. CHANDLER: Dave —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Everyone’s insecure.
22 JFK was insecure. Everyone is.
23 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s the bottom line.
25 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Let’s say they
152
1 are.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Now, I haven’t
3 really analyzed this until we’re just talking right
4 now.
5 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: I put the blame on me a
7 hundred percent.
8 MR. CHANDLER: You put the blame on
9 you —
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Completely a hundred
11 percent.
12 MR. CHANDLER: I’m sorry. I —
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Completely.
14 MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you
15 this way, okay? You put all of — you put the
16 three of them on the stand (simultaneous,
17 inaudible) —
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: — any questions, and
20 they will all be asked questions, and they will all
21 have psychological examinations —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
24 inaudible) given lie detector tests.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
153
1 MR. CHANDLER: I’m going to tell you
2 what. There is no excuse in law for June having
3 done what she does. Despite the fact that you
4 might say it’s your fault —
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: — whatever you say is
7 going to [tape irregularity] capable of making her
8 own decisions —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — and she made those
11 decisions to the harm of her son, despite the fact
12 that, yeah, maybe she’s insecure, maybe she’s macho
13 on the surface, and maybe you fucked her over.
14 Maybe you did. Maybe you didn’t.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: Nobody’s gonna give a
17 shit about that. I know what you’re saying.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
19 MR. CHANDLER: And I agree with you,
20 and I think that had you two had a really good
21 [tape irregularity], maybe she wouldn’t have had to
22 do what she did.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
24 MR. CHANDLER: And I know what you’re
25 saying, and it breaks my heart, but I truly believe
154
1 my son is being harmed greatly and that his
2 life — he could be fucked up for the rest of his
3 life [tape irregularity].
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: You gotta tell me why
5 you think he’s being screwed up.
6 MR. CHANDLER: I have the evidence.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: I know, but what — I
8 don’t know what evidence. I don’t know what you’re
9 talking about.
10 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you’ll see.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why can’t you tell
12 me? I swear —
13 MR. CHANDLER: You show up in court and
14 you’ll see it on the big fucking screen —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: But what —
16 MR. CHANDLER: — and then you’ll know
17 what I’m talking about.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: And you’ll hear in on
20 tape recordings.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: You’ll hear it all.
23 You’ll see it all, just like I have.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25 MR. CHANDLER: It cost me thousands,
155
1 tens of thousands of dollars —
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
3 MR. CHANDLER: — to get the
4 information I got, and I — you know I don’t have
5 that kind of money —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: — and I spent it, and
8 I’m willing to spend more, and I’m willing —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — to go down
11 financially to —
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that’s
13 going to help Jordy?
14 MR. CHANDLER: Dave, Jordy’s — I
15 believe that Jordy’s already irreparably harmed.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: That’s my true belief.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think
19 that he’s fucking him?
20 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t know. I have no
21 idea.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: But harmed in — in just
23 been spoiled?
24 MR. CHANDLER: No.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Just tell me —
156
1 MR. CHANDLER: You know, you gotta
2 forgive me for one thing, but I have been told by
3 my lawyer that if I say one thing to anybody —
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Okay.
5 MR. CHANDLER: — don’t bother calling
6 him again. He said this case is so open [tape
7 irregularity] “You open your mouth and you blow
8 it,” he said, “just don’t come back to me.”
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. I respect that.
10 Okay.
11 MR. CHANDLER: Not that I don’t trust
12 you or anything —
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: I know. I respect it.
14 MR. CHANDLER: You have a vested
15 interest in it —
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
17 MR. CHANDLER: And let me tell you
18 this, by the way: What harm would it be to you,
19 what harm would it be to your relationship to June,
20 if Michael wasn’t around anymore?
21 You say that you [tape irregularity]
22 your fault. You say that you made her insecure.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait.
24 MR. CHANDLER: So if he wasn’t around
25 anymore —
157
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah?
2 MR. CHANDLER: — what do you think
3 she’s going to do? She’s going to come back to
4 you.
5 She doesn’t need you anymore. She
6 doesn’t even want you around anymore. She’s told
7 me and she’s told you — I’m sure she’s told you
8 that if [tape irregularity] Michael she’ll get rid
9 of you. She’s told me that. She means it.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —
11 MR. CHANDLER: She means —
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: The only thing I told
13 you before is I told her I didn’t want him buying
14 her things in Europe. I gave her some money. And
15 then when he did buy her things and she told me, I
16 got pissed off at her. And that’s it, and that’s
17 really the whole thing. That’s all we ever talked
18 about.
19 MR. CHANDLER: How do you feel about
20 her going off on tour with him? You told me when
21 you were there the other day that everybody’s been
22 calling you saying “Your wife’s been [tape
23 irregularity]” —
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: It does [tape
25 irregularity] —
158
1 MR. CHANDLER: And let me tell you
2 something, by the way. That’s the best thing that
3 could happen to him, is that people think he’s
4 interested in June.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: The fact is, he has no
7 interest in her whatsoever. The fact is he doesn’t
8 even care about her. He doesn’t even like her.
9 He’s [tape irregularity] —
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: You don’t think he likes
11 her?
12 MR. CHANDLER: I know he doesn’t. He
13 told me he doesn’t. He can’t stand her. He told
14 me that when —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Huh! He can’t stand
16 her?
17 MR. CHANDLER: No. He told me that
18 when he was in my house.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. At that point he
21 liked us better than — Jordy too. Jordy’s the
22 same as Michael. It was a simple divide and
23 conquer. They felt us both out.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25 MR. CHANDLER: They saw who was going
159
1 to let them do what they wanted to do, and then
2 they made their choice.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: And until I had a talk
5 with Jordy one day at [tape irregularity] —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: — they were gonna come
8 live with me. They were gonna pack up, leave
9 June’s house, and come here.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: That’s what they were
12 going to do, because they were getting more
13 resistance from her than they were getting from me.
14 You cannot tell this stuff — you cannot — I’m
15 confiding in you, okay, Dave?
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
17 MR. CHANDLER: Right? That’s —
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Absolutely.
19 MR. CHANDLER: Nobody’s to know this
20 conversation —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
23 inaudible) except you and me; is that right?
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
25 MR. CHANDLER: You promise me?
160
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: I promise you.
2 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. What I’m telling
3 you is that Jordy and Michael are users.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
5 MR. CHANDLER: They had — they were
6 gonna — they had their own relationship.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: They want to carry it
9 out the way they want to carry it out. They don’t
10 want anybody getting in the way [tape
11 irregularity] — least resistance, and that’s the
12 way they’re going. They simply divided and
13 conquered, and June went along with it. And she
14 was wrong because she did it to the detriment of
15 Jordy.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: Jordy is not old enough
18 to make these kind of [tape irregularity] that he’s
19 making.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: But is that a huge life
21 decision?
22 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, you bet it is.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you — were
24 you — let me ask you this: Did you ever pull away
25 from your parents when you were a teenager?
161
1 MR. CHANDLER: I hated my parents.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think Jordy hates
3 you?
4 MR. CHANDLER: If he doesn’t, he’s
5 gonna hate me tomorrow.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why do you —
7 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
8 inaudible) to —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you want that?
10 MR. CHANDLER: It doesn’t matter what I
11 want.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why would you want
13 him to hate you, and why would you want to put him
14 through that —
15 MR. CHANDLER: Because all I care about
16 is what happens to him in the long run.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, the long run, is
18 that going to be healthy in the long run?
19 MR. CHANDLER: According to the
20 experts?
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: Absolutely.
23 According to the experts, if it goes on
24 the way it is, he’s doomed. He has no chance of
25 ever being a happy, healthy, normal human being, no
162
1 [tape irregularity].
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: So what happens if you
3 force him not to see him?
4 MR. CHANDLER: Not to see Michael?
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Nobody’s saying for sure
7 what will happen. Most people’s feeling is that
8 he’s gonna go on and hate me for a long time and
9 then some day when he gets older he’ll thank me.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And why do you
11 think he hates you now?
12 MR. CHANDLER: I said I think
13 he’ll — I said he may or may not hate me now —
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: — but he’ll definitely
16 hate me tomorrow.
17 He’ll hate me, why? Because I’m taking
18 Michael away from him. That’s why.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: And that’s a —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: So you really think
22 Michael’s bad for him?
23 MR. CHANDLER: I know Michael’s bad for
24 him.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
163
1 MR. CHANDLER: You know how I know
2 that?
3 Why would somebody, Dave — if you tell
4 me this, think of this logically. What reason
5 would he want us split up — [tape irregularity]
6 would he want me out of the way? What would be the
7 reason, unless he has something to hide?
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: But —
9 MR. CHANDLER: I know what he has to
10 hide. I happen to know what it is.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: But I can’t tell you.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
14 MR. CHANDLER: I’m just asking you in
15 terms of logic. You know me. I’m not — I’m a
16 pretty liberal guy.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t get in anybody’s
19 way, okay? So, I mean, what reason would he want
20 me out of the way to such an extent that neither
21 one of them will take my phone calls, neither one
22 of them will talk to me?
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: I think Jordy’s taken my
24 route of just withdrawing.
25 MR. CHANDLER: Well, one of the lessons
164
1 he’s gonna learn is that that route doesn’t work.
2 See, you just learned that lesson yourself. By you
3 withdrawing, as you said in your own words, you’re
4 the cause of this whole problem.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, I think I am.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. So that’s what
7 withdrawal does for you.
8 My approach to the whole thing is that
9 the one person — the person who doesn’t talk is
10 the one who’s wrong, period —
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: — no matter what the
13 action was, I believe everything is preventable,
14 every bad action that anybody takes is — unless
15 you’re truly pathologic —
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: — is probably
18 preventable if you just found somebody who would
19 sit [tape irregularity] you know what? They don’t
20 even have to talk back and give you [tape
21 irregularity] if you get it out, everything will be
22 okay, you know, but that’s my approach. My
23 approach is that the people who don’t talk are the
24 ones who are wrong.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: And I agree with that,
165
1 totally.
2 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then you’re wrong.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: No. I —
4 MR. CHANDLER: You (inaudible) —
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: I just said I am wrong,
6 but here is the other — I mean, the thing is
7 Jordy’s 13 years old. I’m talking about adults. I
8 mean, I don’t know if he — I mean, you’re his dad.
9 You’re his role model.
10 MR. CHANDLER: No, I’m not his role
11 model.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes, you are,
13 definitely —
14 MR. CHANDLER: Not anymore.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: You are, positively, in
16 the long run, you’re his role model.
17 MR. CHANDLER: There is no — there
18 isn’t gonna be a long run if things went on like
19 this.
20 Don’t you see? As long as I go along
21 with whatever they want to do —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — everything’s okay.
24 As soon as I say you can’t [tape irregularity]
25 anybody —
166
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Did you go through that?
2 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, I went through
3 that.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: And how old were you?
5 MR. CHANDLER: Why do you — oh, with
6 my parents?
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: No, I didn’t go through
9 that with my parents. I never had any outside
10 influence on me —
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: — was more powerful
13 than my parents were.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I mean, Michael is
15 very seductive, without even trying.
16 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, he’s trying, believe
17 me. He just looks like he’s not trying because
18 he’s so damn good at it.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I mean, it’s —
20 MR. CHANDLER: Dave, he fooled me —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — I’ll tell you that.
23 He fooled me, for a while.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think
25 this is —
167
1 MR. CHANDLER: There’s no reason why
2 they would have to cut me out unless they — unless
3 they need me to be away so they can do certain
4 things which I don’t think are good to be doing.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: And I — and not only
7 that, but I don’t even have anything to say about
8 it, okay? [tape irregularity] I think what they’re
9 doing and it isn’t bad, and so maybe I’m wrong —
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: — but I’m not even
12 getting a chance to express that.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: I think that’s all — I
14 think it’s all fair because —
15 MR. CHANDLER: I had a good
16 communication with Michael.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: We were friends, you
19 know. I liked him.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: I respected him and
22 everything else for what he is, you know. There
23 was no reason why he had to stop calling me. He
24 could have called me.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
168
1 MR. CHANDLER: In fact, Dave, I — you
2 ask Jordy. I sat in the room one day, and I talked
3 to Michael and told him exactly what I want out of
4 this whole relationship, what I want [tape
5 irregularity], okay, so he wouldn’t have to figure
6 me out.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: And one of things I said
9 is we always have to be able to talk to each other.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: That’s the rule, okay,
12 because I know that as soon as you stop talking
13 weird things start going on and people [tape
14 irregularity] —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Imaginations take over.
16 MR. CHANDLER: Imagination will just
17 kill you.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
19 MR. CHANDLER: It causes all kinds of
20 problems, and so, I mean —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, can you do
22 this —
23 MR. CHANDLER: Do you think
24 you — look. Do you know what it’s like? You go
25 out with — listen. I — just that old expression,
169
1 you know. It came from some movie. How does it
2 go? “Just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean
3 somebody isn’t [tape irregularity].”
4 You know that expression?
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. What it really
7 means is that you may think I’m crazy —
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
9 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
10 inaudible) I’m thinking is actually right, but what
11 I’m saying to you is that I’ve had every single
12 girl — and I am not kidding you — every [tape
13 irregularity] ever gone out with, from the very
14 first girl to the very last, has cheated on me, and
15 I have never cheated on anybody.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: I would never.
18 Now, if I wanted to, based on that
19 history, I could be so fucking paranoid about
20 girls, I would never —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — be able to [tape
23 irregularity] relationship. I wouldn’t be able to
24 [tape irregularity] was like, I couldn’t have a
25 family. I’d be a fucking raving lunatic. Okay?
170
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: But what’s my point? My
3 point is that the only thing that keeps me from
4 getting that way is that I can talk about it and be
5 reassured [tape irregularity] on it in my
6 imagination — I mean, my wife’s not home tonight.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: She’s gonna be at a
9 meeting until 2:00 o’clock in the morning.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
11 MR. CHANDLER: Right? This has
12 happened many times.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: She’s going to go away
15 to Cannes Film Festival next year —
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: — right? Do you know
18 what that’s like?
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: That Film Festival’s a
21 fucking sex party.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: Next year, without me,
24 okay? Now, if I didn’t have a chance to talk to
25 her about my fears, my [tape irregularity],
171
1 probably shoot her, or I’d divorce her.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
3 MR. CHANDLER: And I’m not saying her
4 as an individual. Wouldn’t matter who — I could
5 be married to Mother Teresa and I’d have the same
6 feeling. It’s just because of what [tape
7 irregularity] that I’ve been — my finger’s been
8 stuck in the electric socket so much that I don’t
9 want to get stuck in there again, so I keep — and
10 girls do that to me, you know? They keep fucking
11 me up, so —
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: So what was —
13 MR. CHANDLER: — bothers me. I might
14 be totally irrational —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: — but you want to know
17 why I’m not crazy about it at all and I have a
18 great relationship and I trust her and everything
19 is fine?
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: Because she’ll sit down
22 and she’ll talk to me about it.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: And she’s wildly in love
24 with you.
25 MR. CHANDLER: She tells me she is.
172
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: She is.
2 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, it’s very
4 obvious.
5 MR. CHANDLER: And you want to know
6 what I told her? I told her this. I said
7 June — “Monique,” I said, “if you ever want to sleep
8 with somebody else or if you don’t love me anymore,
9 if you come to me and you tell me that [tape
10 irregularity] out of the house and fuck his brains
11 out, I’ll love you forever, I’ll support you and
12 wish you well. But if it’s the other way around,
13 you fuck him first and then you [tape
14 irregularity], I’ll kill you, period.” I said,
15 “Those are the rules. If you want to stay with me,
16 you gotta understand that’s the only way I can
17 survive. That’s how I live.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: It’s all comes — that’s
20 what really relationships —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, trust is real
22 important.
23 MR. CHANDLER: When you get down to
24 relationships like we — like really intimate ones,
25 okay?
173
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: Like you and I. I trust
3 you with my life.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
5 MR. CHANDLER: And I know you trust me
6 too.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
8 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? And with Moniquw, I
9 said, “That’s all I’m after.”
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: What does she say?
11 MR. CHANDLER: She said, “I understand.
12 That’s fine.” She said, “It’ll never happen. I
13 don’t know why you’re bringing it up, but if you’re
14 bringing it up, I won’t do it. Trust me. It won’t
15 happen.”
16 I said, “Okay. I’m just — I’m telling
17 you now ahead of time” —
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s good
19 communication.
20 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. I mean, I’m not
21 being embarrassed by it —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — I’m not keeping it
24 inside. I want to have a good marriage and a good
25 relationship
174
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: — and I know this is
3 one issue that bothers me, no matter who that girl
4 would be.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? I’m not —
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: In any —
8 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
9 inaudible) personal against her.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
11 MR. CHANDLER: It’s just with me. It’s
12 my problem, and so I’m letting her know that I have
13 a problem. I’m not hiding anything. I’d not
14 trying to be macho cool dude about it.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
16 MR. CHANDLER: And so if I wasn’t able
17 to talk to her, this marriage would have been over
18 a long time ago.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: Because [tape
21 irregularity] —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Don’t we learn like
23 that?
24 MR. CHANDLER: Because of my
25 imagination, Dave.
175
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but don’t we learn
2 through experiences —
3 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
4 inaudible) want to know what I really think? I
5 really think most people don’t learn. I think at
6 some point in our lives we develop behavior
7 patterns, and even if we know that they’re wrong we
8 just can’t break them.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: You know —
10 MR. CHANDLER: Most people can’t change
11 their behaviors.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —
13 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
14 inaudible) they are at a certain —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes and no, but I think
16 you get —
17 MR. CHANDLER: Look at you. Are you
18 going to change now because of what happened here?
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, interesting —
20 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
21 inaudible) be different? Is your marriage going to
22 be better? Are you going to — you know, you guys
23 have no right to be married. I told June that
24 myself many times. She would call me all the time
25 and say, “Did Dave call Kelly? Did Dave call
176
1 Jordy?”
2 No.
3 What kind of fucking marriage do you
4 guys have? Why don’t you guys just split up so he
5 could see his kids, at least —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: You know, if he doesn’t
8 want to come over to the house because of you, then
9 get divorced so he could see his kids. There’s
10 nothing wrong with that. You know, you might be
11 better friends. She and I were better friends when
12 we [tape irregularity], and what I’m saying to her
13 is that if there’s no — if there’s no
14 communication, there’s no sense in being together
15 with anybody, whether it’s a marriage or a
16 friendship or a business relationship. If you
17 cannot sit down and talk [tape irregularity]
18 ultimately gonna destruct, and that’s what happened
19 here. They shut me out from the most important
20 thing in my life. In fact, I don’t have a life. I
21 don’t want to have a life [tape irregularity].
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: I understand it, too,
23 but I gotta tell you, in just talking to you this
24 time, see, Jordy’s copying me.
25 MR. CHANDLER: Well —
177
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, he’s positively
2 copying me. I mean, he’s been with both of us
3 since — I mean, I’ve had him since he’s — almost
4 as long as you have.
5 MR. CHANDLER: That’s right.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: And he’s —
7 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
8 inaudible) had him as long as he’s been cognizant
9 of the fact of who’s around him —
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, so —
11 MR. CHANDLER: — learned a lot from
12 you.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, and one of the
14 things he learned, probably, was just to withdraw,
15 because I do it, but, you know, I’m not chastising
16 myself for it. I’m just looking at it objectively.
17 I mean, realistically. I mean, I would say —
18 MR. CHANDLER: You haven’t (inaudible)
19 and in some way it’s resonated throughout the
20 family —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — and partly been the
23 cause of all this happening.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, but I mean he’s,
25 you know, he’s learned a lot of good things from
178
1 me.
2 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, I’m sure he —
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: But, you know, I mean,
4 everyone’s not perfect.
5 MR. CHANDLER: No. Everyone’s not.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: But I think —
7 MR. CHANDLER: (Inaudible) expect
8 everyone to be, but you gotta expect people that
9 claim to love you to communicate with you because
10 if there’s communication there’s nothing.
11 What’s the sense of having your
12 relationship? People don’t even care enough about
13 you to — you tell them — I actually told June how
14 much I was hurting. I said —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: — “I’m hurting, June.
17 I’m crying every day. I’m dying.”
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but they’re going
19 through every —
20 MR. CHANDLER: Do you know what she
21 said to me?
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: What?
23 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s just too
24 bad.
25 Fuck that.
179
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but you can’t — I
2 mean, you know June.
3 MR. CHANDLER: I can’t make excuses for
4 June.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: There’s no way to
6 make — there’s nothing to make an excuse. I mean,
7 we all have our good points and our bad points, and
8 we all have things that —
9 MR. CHANDLER: I think, you know, her
10 bad points [tape irregularity] gone too far. I
11 really do.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: I think you gotta look
13 at the overall picture. I mean, now we’re
14 talking —
15 MR. CHANDLER: I am looking at — I’m
16 looking at Jordy’s picture. That’s the only
17 picture I’m looking at. I — June’s not part of
18 it.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: But do you think that —
20 MR. CHANDLER: I know that after
21 tomorrow — in fact, not even after tomorrow. It’s
22 already happened. I don’t ever want anything to do
23 with June anymore because June is not part of my
24 family. In my mind, she’s died. I don’t ever want
25 to talk to her again. [tape irregularity] sitting
180
1 on the stand being totally humiliated or at the end
2 of a shotgun. That’s the only way I want to see
3 June now. She’s gotta [tape irregularity] do this
4 to kid. Again, it’s not right. Can do it to me.
5 Can’t do it to my kid. It’s not right.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think
7 that whatever’s happening, if you think it’s bad
8 for him, she’s done, you know, out of malice?
9 MR. CHANDLER: You want to know
10 something? You don’t even have to ask me. You
11 could — as you said before, you want to sit down
12 and talk to the people I spoke to —
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: — you’re going to have
15 a chance to do that if you want to. You go and ask
16 the experts —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — and you won’t have to
19 ask. They will be there anyway.
20 There’s not one person in this world
21 [tape irregularity] can’t find a person —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — disagree with me.
24 I’m the one that disagreed with — I
25 didn’t even want to know about it.
181
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: I kept saying, “No, this
3 is okay. There’s nothing wrong. This is great.”
4 It took experts to convince me [tape
5 irregularity] that by not taking action —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: — my son was going to
8 be irreparably damaged for the rest of his life
9 [tape irregularity]. That was what I heard.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because his friend is
11 older, or because of all the seduction?
12 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you know, age in
13 and of itself is not a harmful thing.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: But it could have been
16 used to advantage, and in some ways Michael is
17 using his age and experience and his money and his
18 power to great advantage to Jordy. The problem is
19 he’s also harming him, greatly harming him, for his
20 own selfish reasons. He’s not the altruistic, kind
21 human being that he appears to be.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think —
23 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
24 inaudible) selfish motives here.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: You mean, harming Jordy
182
1 because it’s taken him out of reality?
2 MR. CHANDLER: It’s not so much really
3 what he’s taken him out of. It’s what he’s brought
4 him into.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: I mean, I don’t mean to
7 be devious. I just can’t be —
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: You can’t tell me.
9 MR. CHANDLER: — specific about it,
10 but I tell you that, again, it all comes down to
11 one thing. They don’t want to talk to me.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
13 MR. CHANDLER: Jordy — yeah, he’s 13
14 years old. He’s only [tape irregularity], hoping
15 that the problem will go away by itself, but June’s
16 old enough to know better.
17 June’s the one that’s frustrated me.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know, this is
19 the deal: I talked to Jordy about it today, about,
20 you know, his not contacting you and not calling
21 you on Father’s Day and not sending you anything.
22 He’s confused June — and this is the truth and
23 from him. June did everything to get him to send
24 you a card, to call and everything. He’s just
25 frustrated, you know, and I don’t know about what
183
1 or — you know, it’s just like he’s scared or
2 doesn’t know what to do or —
3 MR. CHANDLER: (Inaudible).
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
5 MR. CHANDLER: June didn’t do a thing
6 to have him call me or send me a card by her own
7 admission to me last time. She didn’t give a shit,
8 is what she told me.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but I don’t
10 believe that because, I mean —
11 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
12 inaudible) told me.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because, I mean —
14 MR. CHANDLER: I —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: With June and — I
16 talked to them today.
17 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then, she’s lying
18 to you, Dave.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but would Jordy
20 lie?
21 MR. CHANDLER: Now they’re scared shit.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: No. Would Jordy — no,
23 because they don’t know anything about it. I
24 didn’t even tell them that I had talked to you this
25 morning, okay?
184
1 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
2 inaudible) them know you heard the message.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: And what are you going
5 there all of a sudden? You haven’t been there —
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Last night’s the first
7 night I’ve been there.
8 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. By accident?
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, it’s Kelly’s
10 birthday. I mean, you know, I got — it’s tough
11 for me too. It’s not easy. I mean, you don’t
12 really know what’s going on with me, but, I mean,
13 it’s very, very, very difficult times for me.
14 MR. CHANDLER: So what?
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Very.
16 MR. CHANDLER: So what you’re saying is
17 that because of your problem you sacrifice the
18 kids.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I did it —
20 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
21 inaudible) money all during —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I just — I
23 fucked up, but —
24 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, you fucked up.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but —
185
1 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
2 inaudible) I’m not fucking up —
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: — when you’re trying to
4 survive —
5 MR. CHANDLER: Hey, Dave, it doesn’t
6 matter. You want to know something? When my
7 father was dying of cancer —
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
9 MR. CHANDLER: — and he had — and he
10 got in a car crash that crushed his leg and his
11 spinal cord —
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
13 MR. CHANDLER: — at the same time and
14 he was in incredible pain —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: — I used to talk to him
17 about it —
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: — and he would say,
20 “You know what?”
21 I’d say, “Why don’t you — you never
22 talk — you never talk about it, you never complain
23 to anybody.”
24 He said, “You know what? Because
25 everybody’s got their own problems, and nobody’s
186
1 gonna think that my problem’s any worse than their
2 problem.”
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: And so as bad as your
5 problem is [tape irregularity] it may not be on the
6 same scale, but emotionally, financially,
7 psychologically, it’s devastating me as much as
8 [tape irregularity].
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: And I accept that.
10 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: But I — let me —
12 MR. CHANDLER: I’m telling you this:
13 That as bad as my life is, I’m willing to let it
14 get a lot worse —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: — and sacrifice
17 whatever it is — and I don’t even consider it a
18 sacrifice — give up whatever it is so that my son
19 won’t be damaged.
20 You’re not willing to do that. You
21 fall apart just to save one of your kids [tape
22 irregularity] away from my practice, from my
23 family, from my wife, from Cody, from everybody
24 else, do whatever I have to do —
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: And you think that’ll
187
1 save Jordy? I mean, don’t you think there’s a
2 happy medium?
3 MR. CHANDLER: No. We’re not gonna
4 save him. June’s not gonna save him. Who’s gonna
5 save him? Gotta be me.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you really
7 think he has —
8 MR. CHANDLER: — one.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: You don’t think it’s
10 just gonna run its course?
11 MR. CHANDLER: Dave . . .
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, you know more
13 than I know, so I’m at a disadvantage.
14 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then, I will tell
15 you without question. It’s gone way too far.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: Jordy is never going to
18 be the same person he was.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: It’s never — by the
21 time it runs its course —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — if it does, he will
24 be so damaged he’ll never recover —
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
188
1 MR. CHANDLER: — and that’s not my
2 opinion. I mean, I happen to be believe it now
3 because my eyes have been opened —
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
5 MR. CHANDLER: — but I’m not the one
6 that first [tape irregularity], so what I’m saying
7 to you is that I’m acting because [tape
8 irregularity] I’m going to cause him great harm,
9 and you tell me if maybe it’s gonna cause him harm
10 right now. I think he’ll be harmed much greater if
11 I do nothing, and besides now I’m convinced that if
12 I do nothing I’m going to be, from doing nothing,
13 causing him harm, and I couldn’t —
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Did you discuss that
15 with Monique?
16 MR. CHANDLER: Not really.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: I mean, I don’t want her
19 involved. I mean, she would just like the whole
20 thing to go away.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: But we’ve had a nice
23 little relationship and a great new marriage and a
24 nice little family —
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
189
1 MR. CHANDLER: — and everything’s
2 terrific over here.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: And, you know, I’ve
5 tried to explain to Cody why his brother doesn’t
6 call him and he doesn’t come over here. You know
7 [tape irregularity] whole world, and I’m not
8 exaggerating.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: (Inaudible) Jordy.
10 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. You ask Monique
11 when you speak to her if he doesn’t bring it up
12 every conversation —
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
15 inaudible) out during the day.
16 Cody spent about two weeks crying his
17 eyes out. He’d have nightmares about Jordy. He’d
18 get up in the middle of the night and come crying
19 into our bed.
20 I’d listen to him talk, and I would
21 break down —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — and I couldn’t
24 even — I mean, I couldn’t even — I couldn’t — I
25 didn’t know what to say to him, you know? What can
190
1 you say?
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
3 MR. CHANDLER: It was the saddest thing
4 I [tape irregularity]. I mean, how do you do that?
5 13 years old. There’s no — you know, and a [tape
6 irregularity] just come into it?
7 I ask you this: If Michael Jackson
8 were just some 34-year-old person, would this be
9 happening? No. He’s got power, he’s got money,
10 he’s got seduction. [tape irregularity] happening
11 [tape irregularity] they’ve been seduced away from
12 the family by power and by money.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: And by this guy’s image.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: He could be the same
17 person without the power and the money, and they
18 wouldn’t even be talking to him. You know it and I
19 know it. So for power and money and his image,
20 June and Jordy have broken up the family, and even
21 though [tape irregularity] a lot better, because
22 I’ve sat down and talked to him, and I’ve told him
23 long before it came down to going this far —
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25 MR. CHANDLER: — that Cody was really
191
1 hysterical about him.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: And what does he say?
3 MR. CHANDLER: He said that he would,
4 you know, he would call him and he’d talk to him
5 and stuff, and he tried, you know.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: As time went on, the
8 times between when he did call or see Cody got
9 longer and longer and longer and longer until [tape
10 irregularity] anymore.
11 And you know what? He would do the
12 same thing to Kelly. Kelly just happens to have to
13 come along because June has to happen to come
14 along —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: — but if [tape
17 irregularity] now, June wouldn’t be in the picture
18 and neither would Kelly, any more than I am.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: They would have dumped
21 her a long time ago. They even told me [tape
22 irregularity]. They can’t stand her.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Jordy can’t stand
24 June?
25 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. Neither one of
192
1 them like her. They don’t like anybody but each
2 other.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: They don’t like you, and
5 they don’t like me and they don’t like her. They
6 don’t want anybody coming between them. [tape
7 irregularity] got to be eliminated.
8 You go ahead and you see — you tell
9 June. You tell June to start saying “No” to
10 everything they want —
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: — and see what happens.
13 The only reason she’s there is because
14 she says “Yes” [tape irregularity] favorite as long
15 as I was saying “Yes.”
16 Trust me. I don’t know what’s happened
17 to Jordy except he doesn’t care, literally does not
18 care, if he would ever see him again. He hopes I
19 would go away and not bother him. That’s [tape
20 irregularity].
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I know that’s not
22 true.
23 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
24 inaudible) Michael.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: I know that’s not true.
193
1 MR. CHANDLER: I’m telling you. But
2 that doesn’t matter, you know. I’m not taking it
3 personally. I’m just trying to do what I have been
4 led to believe is the right action to take so that
5 he’s not harmed.
6 I mean, Unfortunately, June and [tape
7 irregularity] because in order to protect Jordy
8 certain things are gonna have to come out, and
9 those two are not going to have any defense against
10 it whatsoever. They’re just going to be [tape
11 irregularity] violently destroyed.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that it
13 helps Jordy?
14 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, it’ll help Jordy
15 because he won’t — he’ll never see Michael again.
16 That’s —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think
18 that —
19 MR. CHANDLER: And he’s probably never
20 gonna see June again if I have to go through with
21 this.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think —
23 MR. CHANDLER: Unless I’d let him.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that would
25 affect him?
194
1 MR. CHANDLER: What?
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: That he was — that this
3 was done by force?
4 MR. CHANDLER: You mean that Michael
5 did this to him?
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: No, that you, like, are
7 forcing him not to see someone or take him away
8 from his mom?
9 MR. CHANDLER: Well, I am gonna force
10 him not to see —
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but do you think
12 that’s the right way to do it?
13 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. I’ve been led to
14 believe that it’s the right thing to do.
15 In fact, it’s the right thing to do
16 because how do you know? You don’t know what —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: I don’t have a clue.
18 MR. CHANDLER: Suppose you were to find
19 out what they’re doing and you were to agree with
20 me that these things that they’re doing are harmful
21 to Jordy or —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’d like to know.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — be harmful.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, in my wildest
25 imagination I can’t figure out what it is.
195
1 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. But suppose —
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Unless it’s sex, and I
3 don’t know, you know.
4 MR. CHANDLER: Suppose that you were to
5 find out that there were things going on that you
6 believed were harmful to him? Would you say to me,
7 “Hey, look. You know, I got things to do here
8 [tape irregularity], but, you know, time will go by
9 and everything will be okay”? I mean, that’s —
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: No. What I would
11 do — I’m not disagreeing with you.
12 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Well, they won’t
13 talk to me about those things. They won’t talk to
14 me about anything.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Even about what you
16 think they’re doing or about what you know they’re
17 doing?
18 MR. CHANDLER: What I know they’re
19 doing.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: I mean, I’ve tried to
22 talk to Jordy. Jordy — Jordy does not talk to me.
23 This stopped long before I told him he couldn’t
24 [tape irregularity]. He just does not talk to me
25 anymore. In fact, when he talks to Michael on the
196
1 telephone, he goes in another room because I’m not
2 allowed to hear what they’re talking about except I
3 taped [tape irregularity] they’re talking about.
4 Ha ha ha.
5 Anyway, all I’m saying is that [tape
6 irregularity] that I would be negligent to continue
7 to do nothing [tape irregularity] gonna be because
8 nobody really knows how Jordy will be affected one
9 way or the other.
10 I know for a fact that he’s going to be
11 affected adversely if I do nothing.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
13 MR. CHANDLER: So I have nothing to
14 lose.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Would you do me a big
16 favor?
17 MR. CHANDLER: What?
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Could you and I go to
19 one of these shrinks and talk it over?
20 MR. CHANDLER: No.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why not?
22 MR. CHANDLER: Because it’s too late,
23 after 8:30 tomorrow.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why not? Why
25 couldn’t we go talk it over —
197
1 MR. CHANDLER: Because the thing’s
2 already — the thing has already been set in
3 motion.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
5 MR. CHANDLER: It’s happening at 8:30.
6 8:36 tomorrow —
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: — it’s out of my hands.
9 I do nothing else again —
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: — after 8:36 tomorrow.
12 It’s all been automatically set in
13 motion.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not even in contact
16 anymore —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: — with this person.
19 This thing is —
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Let me ask you this,
21 then.
22 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
23 inaudible) 8:36, unless I call in —
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25 MR. CHANDLER: — and tell him not to
198
1 do it.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: So why don’t you call
3 and say not to do it?
4 MR. CHANDLER: Because I’m not going
5 to.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why? Why wouldn’t you
7 go with me? I mean, we trust each other. We
8 respect each other. Why couldn’t you go with me
9 and we’d decide together?
10 MR. CHANDLER: Because I don’t want to
11 talk to you about it.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
13 MR. CHANDLER: I want to talk to June
14 and Jordy and Michael —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but why can’t you
16 talk to me? I mean, I’m — I could be very —
17 MR. CHANDLER: — be there tomorrow
18 and —
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
20 MR. CHANDLER: You can be there at the
21 meeting tomorrow, and you can get a chance to talk
22 to him —
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
24 MR. CHANDLER: — if you want to, but
25 if they don’t say, “Well, there’s not going to be a
199
1 meeting” —
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
3 MR. CHANDLER: — I want to talk to
4 them. I don’t want to talk to you.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Because you have had
7 your head buried in Rent A Wreck, and you have no
8 idea what’s going on —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — and just because you
11 all of a sudden decide to have some interest in
12 [tape irregularity] I don’t [tape irregularity]
13 going on. It will take you weeks to catch up —
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: — you’ll never know
16 what’s going on by explanation.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
18 MR. CHANDLER: You’d have to have lived
19 it. You’d have to have witnessed it. Myself would
20 never have believed it —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — if I didn’t live
23 through it, see it and hear it.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25 MR. CHANDLER: I would not have
200
1 believed it. And that’s all. I cannot take this
2 [tape irregularity] over to you because that’s the
3 only way you’re gonna know it.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
5 MR. CHANDLER: The evidence is already
6 locked up in a safe place —
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: — and it’s gonna come
9 out only [tape irregularity] let it come out, and
10 that’s it. If they don’t talk to me tomorrow, out
11 it comes.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Well, but let me
13 ask you this- –
14 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
15 inaudible) Michael Jackson — Michael Jackson’s
16 career, Dave. This man is gonna be humiliated
17 beyond belief. You’ll not believe it. He will not
18 believe what’s going to happen to him.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: Beyond his worst
21 nightmares. [tape irregularity] not sell one more
22 record.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
24 MR. CHANDLER: That’s for sure. And I
25 mean I’m [tape irregularity] it just has to happen
201
1 in order to get — to keep [tape irregularity] and
2 it doesn’t have to happen if they show up tomorrow.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
4 MR. CHANDLER: But if they don’t show
5 up — and I’ve made it very clear — I’ve tried to
6 make it really clear on that answering machine,
7 “This is the last chance to talk. If you talk, we
8 have a chance. If we don’t talk, it’s all over.”
9 It’s out of my hands. I mean, what
10 else can I do?
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: I don’t — you know, I
12 don’t —
13 MR. CHANDLER: What’s the disadvantage
14 to you if Michael Jackson’s destroyed and out of
15 the family? What good is he doing you?
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: What harms it — well,
17 it has nothing to — I’m only thinking of Jordy.
18 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
19 inaudible) come over to talk to you, you seemed
20 pretty damned upset that everybody was telling you
21 that Michael Jackson has taken your family away
22 from you. You even went so far as to tell me you
23 couldn’t get bank loans because of that [tape
24 irregularity] turn around completely 180 degrees.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: It’s not turning around
202
1 180.
2 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
3 inaudible) for Michael Jackson.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’ll tell you what I’m
5 concerned about.
6 MR. CHANDLER: What?
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’m concerned about
8 Jordy.
9 MR. CHANDLER: Well, if you were
10 concerned about Jordy, you should have been around
11 a long time ago, because I have been.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
13 MR. CHANDLER: Where have you been?
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I’ve been there
15 plenty for him. I mean, in the 13 years I’ve been
16 there a lot.
17 MR. CHANDLER: I agree —
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: I would say —
19 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
20 inaudible) day —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: I would say this: So I
22 made a few mistakes, but —
23 MR. CHANDLER: Why —
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: I can’t condemn myself
25 for it.
203
1 MR. CHANDLER: Well, why all of a
2 sudden do you not want to be there?
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Did I not want to be
4 there?
5 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because I’ve been in a
7 survival mode.
8 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, okay.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: And, you know —
10 MR. CHANDLER: The fact of the matter
11 is —
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: You know, you do what
13 you have to do, and sometimes you make the wrong
14 move, and sometimes your emotions make you do it,
15 and sometimes it’s just — it’s the way that you
16 face it. Sometimes you —
17 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
18 inaudible) survival mode, and so you’re doing what
19 you’re doing, and I’m not in a survival mode. I’m
20 trying for him to survive —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, what I —
22 MR. CHANDLER: — doing what I think —
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’ll tell you what. I
24 would die for that kid. I mean, I have — you
25 don’t know what I’ve done for that kid.
204
1 MR. CHANDLER: Easy to say that, Dave,
2 but when you tell me you’re in a survival mode so
3 you can’t pay attention to your children, it
4 doesn’t jive with “I would die for that kid.”
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. I’m ashamed of
6 that. I’m not proud of that, but when you —
7 MR. CHANDLER: I mean, how do you — I
8 mean, which of those two statements should I choose
9 to believe, because they’re both entirely opposite
10 each other?
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —
12 MR. CHANDLER: “I would die for that
13 kid” or “I’m” —
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: If I had —
15 MR. CHANDLER: — “in a survival mode
16 and I” —
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: I would do anything for
18 Jordy. I would lose everything. I would die for
19 Jordy. That’s the bottom line.
20 MR. CHANDLER: Then why don’t you just
21 back me up right now and let’s get rid of Michael
22 Jackson.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because I don’t know the
24 facts.
25 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Well, when you
205
1 know —
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, I don’t —
3 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. When you know the
4 facts, when you see the facts come out, then you’ll
5 make a decision at that point.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right. That’s fair.
7 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, that’s more than
9 fair, but this — let me —
10 MR. CHANDLER: It’s unfortunately gonna
11 be too late, then, and nothing’s gonna matter at
12 that point.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
14 MR. CHANDLER: Because the fact is so
15 fucking overwhelming —
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah?
17 MR. CHANDLER: — that everybody’s
18 going to be destroyed in the process.
19 The facts themselves are gonna — once
20 this thing starts rolling —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — the facts themselves
23 are gonna overwhelm. It’s gonna be bigger than all
24 of us put together, and the whole thing’s just
25 gonna crash down on everybody and destroy everybody
206
1 in its sight. That’s [tape irregularity]
2 humiliating, believe me.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And is that good?
4 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. It’s great.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
6 MR. CHANDLER: Great, because —
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, is that how
8 you’re —
9 MR. CHANDLER: Because June and Jordy
10 and Michael —
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: — have forced me to
13 take it to the extreme —
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: — to get their
16 attention. How pitiful, pitifuckingful they are to
17 have done that. I’ve tried to get their
18 attention —
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: — I’ve cried on the
21 phone, I’ve talked on the phone —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: — I have begged on the
24 phone, and all I get back is, “Go fuck yourself” on
25 the phone, and so now I’m still trying to get their
207
1 attention until 8:30 tomorrow for their [tape
2 irregularity], and I will know that even having
3 gone this far they won’t talk to me, then I know
4 that I’m absolutely right in doing what I’m doing
5 because they have left me no other [tape
6 irregularity]. I am not allowed to talk to [tape
7 irregularity], and so since they’re sending me that
8 message and telling me that —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — they leave me no
11 choice. They will not let me say to them, “This is
12 what’s bothering me, and this is what I’d like to
13 do about it. What do you think?”
14 They’re saying, “We don’t care what you
15 have to think — say about [tape irregularity].”
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: You mean by no
17 communication?
18 MR. CHANDLER: Am I supposed to just
19 bury my head? No. Not when my kid’s involved.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: I can’t. So it’s their
22 fault. Everything’s their fault, one hundred
23 percent, and the reason it’s their fault [tape
24 irregularity] try to communicate, and they have
25 time after time frustrated my attempts to talk by
208
1 telling me, “Go fuck yourself.”
2 And when you do that to somebody,
3 consistently, you drive them to do something [tape
4 irregularity]. I’m not an evil person. I don’t
5 want to do this.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: It’s their fault because
8 they won’t talk. They have one more chance. I’ve
9 told them this. That’s why I left that message.
10 The message was very harsh [tape irregularity] and
11 it was very true, and it was to let them know that
12 I am not kidding around.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: I’m begging them. That
15 message was begging, one more time —
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: — to sit down and talk
18 and saying basically, “I don’t want to hurt you,
19 but you’re not leaving me any choice.”
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: And, you know, if they
22 choose to ignore it, for whatever their
23 motives — June doesn’t ignore things for the
24 same — she doesn’t bury her head in the sand and
25 make believe it’s gonna go away.
209
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: June usually will call
3 you up and say, “Go fuck yourself and drop dead” —
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
5 MR. CHANDLER: — and she’ll get
6 violent and all that, maybe even punch you in the
7 face.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, that’s not so bad.
9 MR. CHANDLER: That’s right, and yet
10 she’s not calling me —
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: — she’s not doing
13 anything. She’s not talking either. So Michael’s
14 not talking either. The three of them, completely
15 different personalities —
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: — handle situations in
18 three completely different ways, and yet none of
19 the three of them is calling me.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: You can tell me that
22 Jordy’s burying his head in the sand and that’s his
23 reaction [tape irregularity]. What’s the other two
24 excuses? I don’t know. They won’t even tell me
25 what their excuse for not talking to me is. I
210
1 don’t even — I can’t make an excuse for —
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Michael, I can’t tell
3 you. June, she doesn’t know what’s going on.
4 MR. CHANDLER: Well, of course she
5 doesn’t know what’s going on. She wouldn’t let me
6 tell her.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: But she doesn’t going
8 on — know what’s going on —
9 MR. CHANDLER: I did tell her once.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: I did tell her once what
12 my thoughts were about it.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: And she said, “Go fuck
15 yourself,” basically.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Does this —
17 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
18 inaudible) she said — I do remember ’cause I wrote
19 it on a piece of paper.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: It shocked me so much
22 coming from her mouth that I actually wrote it
23 down, verbatim, in quotes.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25 MR. CHANDLER: That this human being
211
1 would say something like that about her own kid,
2 and so now that I know that she feels that way
3 about [tape irregularity] no reason why I should
4 assume that she gives a shit about me, so —
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know she cares
6 about you.
7 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you know, that
8 doesn’t matter anymore. June is nonexistent.
9 If — I have no — I have nothing for her anymore.
10 I will never talk to her again, ever. Never.
11 She’s a horrible human being, and it’s all gonna
12 come out, and I don’t even have to say that [tape
13 irregularity]. I’ll let everybody make their own
14 decision.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: June is a horrible,
17 selfish human being. [tape irregularity], and now
18 I find this out about how [tape
19 irregularity] — it’s all over. And if they’re
20 stupid enough not to talk to me tomorrow, well,
21 they’re going to have —
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I think they want
23 to talk to you, and I want to talk to you.
24 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then they
25 should —
212
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: But when it comes with a
2 threat, I mean, that’s what’s upsetting to me.
3 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s too bad.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, why?
5 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
6 inaudible) supposed to do to get someone’s
7 attention? I say, “I am begging you to talk to
8 me.”
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: That doesn’t work. So
11 then you cry hysterically on the phone, “I’m in so
12 much pain because I’m losing” —
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Who did you say
14 that — who was that to?
15 MR. CHANDLER: To June.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, and how long ago
17 was that?
18 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, three weeks, maybe.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: And then you call up and
21 you say, “I demand to talk to him.”
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: None of that works.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
213
1 inaudible) get the same response. I mean, no
2 emotion from the other side whatsoever.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Uh-huh.
4 MR. CHANDLER: Nothing.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Except the coldest
7 response you can possibly imagine, okay?
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
9 MR. CHANDLER: And maybe it’s because
10 she’s insecure. I don’t care anymore —
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: I cared at the time. I
13 mean, I was totally shocked that she would respond
14 that way to me. I couldn’t believe it. Okay? So
15 I know that I have tried in every way. I’ve
16 appealed to her in every way I know how. I’ve
17 appealed to her intelligence, I’ve appealed to her
18 emotions, and so I’ve done every — I’ve gotten on
19 the ground and I’ve groveled in front of her. I’ve
20 gone so far as to tell her that her son is in
21 danger.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: None of it made a
24 difference, none of it, and so what else am I
25 supposed to do to get their attention?
214
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: I —
2 MR. CHANDLER: If I didn’t care, Dave,
3 I wouldn’t have left that message.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
5 MR. CHANDLER: I just would have gone
6 and done whatever I wanted to do —
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: — and they’d have
9 gotten the shock of their life —
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: — that all of a sudden
12 would have appeared out of nowhere, and then their
13 whole lives would be forever different and forever
14 bad.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: I have nothing to gain
17 by talking to them tomorrow. All that can happen
18 tomorrow is that I’m gonna look at their faces and
19 I’m gonna feel bad —
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: — and I’m gonna
22 mitigate my position. I’m gonna give in somewhat
23 [tape irregularity] I just went ahead and did what
24 I was gonna do, I don’t ever have to see them
25 again —
215
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: — they’re automatically
3 gonna be destroyed and I’m gonna get what I want.
4 That’s a given [tape irregularity], so —
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: But, I mean, is that the
6 way to get Jordy?
7 MR. CHANDLER: — talk to them — I’m
8 talking to them for their sake —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — mine. This is my
11 fourth, fifth and last attempt to communicate.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
13 MR. CHANDLER: So when I leave a
14 threatening message, I am threatening them —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: — because nothing else
17 works. Crying didn’t work. Begging didn’t work.
18 Intelligence didn’t work.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: Appealing to the
21 motherly [tape irregularity] nothing worked. So
22 what else is left? You threaten. If that doesn’t
23 work, you’ve basically tried everything there is
24 that you could possibly try.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
216
1 MR. CHANDLER: I didn’t threaten him
2 physically. I didn’t say I was going to kill them.
3 Michael can show up with all his bodyguards with
4 guns and surround me if he wants to.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not killing anybody
7 tomorrow. It’s not the next step. His death is
8 not the next (inaudible), so I mean I will talk to
9 them tomorrow, but that’s for their — they can’t
10 possibly feel threatened.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: That’s bullshit. I
13 didn’t threaten them physically in any way, and
14 certainly Michael’s got enough [tape irregularity]
15 lawyers (inaudible). He has Burt Fields, who’s a
16 big hotshot, if he wants to, sit right there. I
17 don’t give a shit.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
19 MR. CHANDLER: Whatever, you know, is
20 going to make them protected from my great threat.
21 I’m showing up all by my little self, and they can
22 show up with an entire army if they need to protect
23 themselves from me, but there’s nothing that they
24 can do to convince me that they’re not showing up
25 because they’re afraid for their lives.
217
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: They could show up [tape
3 irregularity] surrounded by bodyguards. He could
4 certainly have them come over to June’s house, so
5 [tape irregularity] threat was obviously the last
6 (inaudible).
7 I’ve never punched anybody. I’ve never
8 shot anybody. I’ve never done anything violent in
9 my life. There’s no reason why they should feel
10 physically threatened. Never ever given them any
11 indication that I [tape irregularity] Jordy, so,
12 you know, they know that that threat’s [tape
13 irregularity] to be fearful of that. They know
14 that that [tape irregularity] and they know that I
15 left it because there’s no other way to get ahold
16 of them.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s fair.
18 MR. CHANDLER: I mean, I think it’s
19 fair.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Let me ask you
21 this question. I mean, I definitely want to be
22 there.
23 MR. CHANDLER: That’s fine.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Can we do it at night?
25 MR. CHANDLER: No. Has to be —
218
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why not? Why does it
2 have to be in the morning?
3 MR. CHANDLER: Because it’s too late at
4 night.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: It doesn’t have to be
6 late —
7 MR. CHANDLER: I have to have the
8 regular business hours. I need as many business
9 hours —
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: — if it doesn’t go my
12 way to get the wheels going.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: But what time are you
14 ready to — what time are you through work
15 tomorrow —
16 MR. CHANDLER: The wheels roll at 8:36
17 if they’re not there.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but can you do
19 that for me, make it later?
20 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,
21 inaudible) do it. I can’t. You don’t have to be
22 there.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: But I want to —
24 MR. CHANDLER: — tape record it. You
25 can hear it all.
219
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: But I want to be there.
2 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then you have to
3 be there at 8:30. It’s already set.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
5 MR. CHANDLER: There are other people
6 involved that are waiting for my phone call that
7 are intentionally going to be in certain
8 positions —
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
10 MR. CHANDLER: — [tape irregularity].
11 I paid them to do it. They’re doing their job. I
12 gotta just go ahead and follow through on the time
13 zone.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Um-hmm.
15 MR. CHANDLER: I mean the time set out.
16 Everything is going according to a certain plan
17 that isn’t just mine. There’s other people
18 involved —
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: How about 8:37?
20 MR. CHANDLER: Nope. 8:31 is not even
21 going to work.
22 I mean, they’re going to
23 have — they’re going to have to be there or not be
24 there. It’s up to them what happens now. I mean,
25 it’s not going to be [tape irregularity] whether
220
1 they’re there or not.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
3 MR. CHANDLER: But if they are there,
4 it’s going to be far better than if they’re
5 not — I mean, they’re going to have a chance to
6 make things a lot better if they’re there.
7 My instructions were to kill and
8 destroy [tape irregularity], I’m telling you. I
9 mean, and by killing and destroying, I’m going to
10 torture them, Dave.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: Because that’s what June
13 has done to me. She has tortured me —
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: — and she’s gonna know
16 that you can’t [tape irregularity].
17 I’ll tell you one thing that Jordy has
18 no idea about, and that’s what love means. He
19 doesn’t even have the remotest idea. He can’t
20 learn it from June. She doesn’t know what it
21 means. She has no conception of what it means.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: So maybe, you know, I
24 can get (inaudible) teach him that. I don’t know.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah [tape
221
1 irregularity].
2 MR. CHANDLER: Part of it [tape
3 irregularity] other people and communicating, and
4 those are three things that must be in place in
5 order for a loving relationship to exist, because
6 all of those things show that you care about that
7 other person. Not one thing [tape irregularity].
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but it was there.
9 MR. CHANDLER: No, I don’t think it
10 ever was, now that I —
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: — look at her behavior,
13 I’m just saying that June is a brilliant and
14 pathologic personality.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: What you see on the
17 surface ain’t even remotely related to what’s
18 really going on underneath.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: And I believe that that
21 will come out in lie detector [tape irregularity]
22 psychological evaluations —
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
24 MR. CHANDLER: — which they’re all
25 gonna have to do.
222
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: So —
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: And you think that’s
4 good for Jordy?
5 MR. CHANDLER: I think that in the long
6 run would — of course it’s not the best thing for
7 Jordy.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
9 MR. CHANDLER: The best thing for Jordy
10 would be for everybody to sit there and peaceably
11 resolve amongst themselves [tape irregularity], but
12 because they’re not willing to do that, I’m not
13 allowed to have a say in what the best [tape
14 irregularity]. I’m not even allowed to [tape
15 irregularity] Jordy is. I’m not allowed to have a
16 say in anything about Jordy. So when you ask me
17 that question [tape irregularity] I would welcome
18 them to do that, but they don’t care. They don’t
19 care about what I think, so they don’t ask me that
20 question. Do I think — I mean, just to answer
21 your question, I think that [tape irregularity] for
22 Jordy either way in the short [tape irregularity],
23 in the short term.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25 MR. CHANDLER: I think in the long term
223
1 he’s got a [tape irregularity] a chance of being a
2 happy human being if I do what I have to do than if
3 I let things go the way they are.
4 Could a compromise be worked out?
5 Possibly.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
7 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. Let them convince
8 me as to why [tape irregularity] tell me I’m wrong.
9 Let them show me how Jordy’s benefitting and not
10 being harmed. They got their chance.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
12 MR. CHANDLER: If they don’t want it,
13 they haven’t wanted to take it before.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
15 MR. CHANDLER: They’ve had four or five
16 times that I’ve called them [tape irregularity]
17 haven’t wanted to get in a conversation with me
18 about it, and I believe they don’t want to get in a
19 conversation with me about it is because they know
20 they can’t defend their position.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: [tape irregularity] to
23 cut — I mean, I’m young, I’m really liberal. As
24 far as I’m concerned, anybody could do anything
25 they want. That’s my philosophy. You guys can do
224
1 whatever you want. Just be happy. Don’t get hurt.
2 So . . .
3 (End of Tape 1, Side B.)
Vindicating Michael 
Thank you very much for posting this. I read it all but there is one big question in the back of my mind – how do we even know this is the actual transcript, that it is not fabricated? There is not credible source, such as FBI, that discloses this material (as far as i know). Even though some of what is written here can be heard in the famous video on youtube, what if the rest is not veracious?
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Andrww,
Nobody here said this tape was admission of extortion from Evan’s part.
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If Evan doesn’t say anything about extortion, then that means that he didn’t admit anything. What’s so hard to understand about that.
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here,as much as it is irrelevant now but he doesnt seem anything like a parent seeking justice; for example he says that MJ is evil because he broke his family rather than saying that he is worse than the devil for doing what he did to his son (which most of us would have done and any other issue would have been secondary to us). as much as i tried to give him any kind of credibility’ i could only find that this man was jealousy driven, self contradictory, overly competitive and possessive.Another thing is that in many books it is mentioned in many books that he said to Micheal on their first negotiation that his says that his son has told him what they were doing but in this recording he says that his son doesnt even talk to him properly.can any one tell about the days when these were recorded?it just seems so fishy.
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Evan taped Jordie and Michael’s conversations together? Interesting that those tapes were never used in any way, huh?
Oh, extremely interesting! If Diane Dimond and Co. never used them they should be having a pile of information about Michael’s innocence. Actually, the fact that these tapes are missing is indirect proof that there was absolutely nothing incriminating in those conversations – not a single word! If they had found something they would have never missed the chance to fan it into another of their smear campaigns!
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Also about June:
20 MR. CHANDLER: I know that after
21 tomorrow — in fact, not even after tomorrow. It’s
22 already happened. I don’t ever want anything to do
23 with June anymore because June is not part of my
24 family. In my mind, she’s died. I don’t ever want
25 to talk to her again. [tape irregularity] sitting
1 on the stand being totally humiliated or at the end
2 of a shotgun. That’s the only way I want to see
3 June now.
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@ rockforeveron
He’s simply crazy!
1 MR. CHANDLER: In fact, Dave, I — you
2 ask Jordy. I sat in the room one day, and I talked
3 to Michael and told him exactly what I want out of
4 this whole relationship, what I want [tape
5 irregularity], okay, so he wouldn’t have to figure
6 me out.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: And one of things I said
9 is we always have to be able to talk to each other.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
11 MR. CHANDLER: That’s the rule, okay,
12 because I know that as soon as you stop talking
13 weird things start going on and people [tape
14 irregularity] —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Imaginations take over.
16 MR. CHANDLER: Imagination will just
17 kill you.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
19 MR. CHANDLER: It causes all kinds of
20 problems, and so, I mean —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, can you do
22 this —
23 MR. CHANDLER: Do you think
24 you — look. Do you know what it’s like? You go
25 out with — listen. I — just that old expression,
1 you know. It came from some movie. How does it
2 go? “Just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean
3 somebody isn’t [tape irregularity].”
4 You know that expression?
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
6 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. What it really
7 means is that you may think I’m crazy —
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
9 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,
10 inaudible) I’m thinking is actually right, but what
11 I’m saying to you is that I’ve had every single
12 girl — and I am not kidding you — every [tape
13 irregularity] ever gone out with, from the very
14 first girl to the very last, has cheated on me, and
15 I have never cheated on anybody.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: I would never.
18 Now, if I wanted to, based on that
19 history, I could be so fucking paranoid about
20 girls, I would never —
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
22 MR. CHANDLER: — be able to [tape
23 irregularity] relationship. I wouldn’t be able to
24 [tape irregularity] was like, I couldn’t have a
25 family. I’d be a fucking raving lunatic. Okay?
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
2 MR. CHANDLER: But what’s my point? My
3 point is that the only thing that keeps me from
4 getting that way is that I can talk about it and be
5 reassured [tape irregularity] on it in my
6 imagination — I mean, my wife’s not home tonight.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
8 MR. CHANDLER: She’s gonna be at a
9 meeting until 2:00 o’clock in the morning.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
11 MR. CHANDLER: Right? This has
12 happened many times.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
14 MR. CHANDLER: She’s going to go away
15 to Cannes Film Festival next year —
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: — right? Do you know
18 what that’s like?
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
20 MR. CHANDLER: That Film Festival’s a
21 fucking sex party.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
23 MR. CHANDLER: Next year, without me,
24 okay? Now, if I didn’t have a chance to talk to
25 her about my fears, my [tape irregularity],
1 probably shoot her, or I’d divorce her.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
3 MR. CHANDLER: And I’m not saying her
4 as an individual. Wouldn’t matter who — I could
5 be married to Mother Teresa and I’d have the same
6 feeling. It’s just because of what [tape
7 irregularity] that I’ve been — my finger’s been
8 stuck in the electric socket so much that I don’t
9 want to get stuck in there again, so I keep — and
10 girls do that to me, you know? They keep fucking
11 me up, so —
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: So what was —
13 MR. CHANDLER: — bothers me. I might
14 be totally irrational —
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
16 MR. CHANDLER: — but you want to know
17 why I’m not crazy about it at all and I have a
18 great relationship and I trust her and everything
19 is fine?
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
21 MR. CHANDLER: Because she’ll sit down
22 and she’ll talk to me about it.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: And she’s wildly in love
24 with you.
25 MR. CHANDLER: She tells me she is.
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: She is.
2 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, it’s very
4 obvious.
5 MR. CHANDLER: And you want to know
6 what I told her? I told her this. I said
7 June — “Monique,” I said, “if you ever want to sleep
8 with somebody else or if you don’t love me anymore,
9 if you come to me and you tell me that [tape
10 irregularity] out of the house and fuck his brains
11 out, I’ll love you forever, I’ll support you and
12 wish you well. But if it’s the other way around,
13 you fuck him first and then you [tape
14 irregularity], I’ll kill you, period.” I said,
15 “Those are the rules. If you want to stay with me,
16 you gotta understand that’s the only way I can
17 survive. That’s how I live.
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“Evan taped Jordie and Michael’s conversations together?”
I think he knew he was recorded, or at least he suspected it, and he said that to threaten MJ.
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Rereading this…
Evan taped Jordie and Michael’s conversations together?
21 MR. CHANDLER: I mean, I’ve tried to
22 talk to Jordy. Jordy — Jordy does not talk to me.
23 This stopped long before I told him he couldn’t
24 [tape irregularity]. He just does not talk to me
25 anymore. In fact, when he talks to Michael on the
196
1 telephone, he goes in another room because I’m not
2 allowed to hear what they’re talking about except I
3 taped [tape irregularity] they’re talking about.
Interesting that those tapes were never used in any way, huh?
And does Evan mistakenly call his current wife June?
5 MR. CHANDLER: And you want to know
what I told her? I told her this. I said
June — “Monique,” I said, “if you ever want to sleep
He sounds so insanely possessive and it sounds as though June cheated on him originally.
So funny:
4 MR. CHANDLER: Well, of course she
5 doesn’t know what’s going on. She wouldn’t let me
6 tell her.
She needs to be told what’s going on? Even when Evan says himself he doesn’t know for a fact, all he’s basing this on is opinions from other people?
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Hey guys, make sure you read this AMAZING analysis of Evan and Dave’s phone transcript. This is the most in-depth and thorough analysis of that phone call that I have ever read!
http://mjjjusticeproject.wordpress.com/2011/02/14/chandlers-behavior-and-words/
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From what I’ve read of Chandler, he was not a particularly *balanced* man. He seems to have been motivated entirely by jealously and then took it another step. I’ve met too many people who claim they care about this one or that one but listen very carefully, it’s really all about them. For example, take any showing of let’s say, Dr. Phil. A mother is on there because she cannot stand her son-in-law…her disliking her son-in-law, her daughter’s husband, is making her daughter, who she professes to love better than life itself, miserable. Does this make mom, unselfishly, stop her behavior for the good and betterment and feelings of her daughter? Nope. I, I, I….so all I’m hearing here is I, I, I. As far as any proof, we know there was none and he didn’t need to have any. He only needed to threaten exposure. Any Entertainment lawyer will tell you they advise their clients to settle these cases all the time. As a matter of fact, all the entertainment lawyers that I read in an issue of USAToday were critical of Dave Letterman for going public. Why? Because to go to court would be to have his dirty laundry aired. Now Letterman weathered it because he’s a good comedian and very savvy on how to handle an audience. Many people do not understand that in these celebrity cases, settling is not an admission of guilt. Chandler didn’t go to a criminal lawyer, he went to an Entertainment lawyer, they know how to word the “extortion” so that it is just above the law. Write a letter to a celebrity saying that their client, the celebrity’s ex -boyfriend, plans to write a tell-all book. Celebrity’s ex gets a check in the mail to *not* write a book. Too bad, T-Mez was not Michael’s lawyer the first time. According to the Redemption book Michael’s advisers were probably motivated by their own greed. They were very short-sighted in not seeing that payment to the family would look like admission of guilt to the public which doesn’t hear about most of these types of situations or how they are handled behind the scenes. Looking back, T-Mez believed Michael had a winnable case. But who knows, going to court may have destroyed his career anyway. Look at the second trial. He was tried and convicted before he even made it to court and there are people still nailing him to the wall after he was declared not guilty and the family was so obviously lying. Everyone had their handout. I think only LMP walked away and asked for nothing in return. Remember in the Avizo case, they claim all this molestation happened *after* the Bashir documentary. As a comedian joked, apparently right in the middle of serving milk and cookies, Michael suddenly loses his mind and decides to start molesting kids. Timing, circumstances, everything is all wrong and makes no sense. And where are the accusers without their hand out but seeking justice for themselves or their children? Where are they?
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She was seen with him publicly
May 5, 1993
Michael is invited by ex president Jimmy Carter to Atlanta in order to boost the Atlanta Immunisation Drive. Afterwards, Michael joins Ted Turner, Jane Fonda, Emmanuel Lewis & Lisa Marie Presley in the front row during the Kids Celebration at OMNI.
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Teva,
She said publicly that she was with him at that time. It’s written on books, TV, magazine that she was romantically involved with him at the time. There are others people who said she was with him at the time. I mean I don’t know but why would they try to protect her when she was the one claiming on TV that she was with him at the time. That part of the Chandler tape is not famous not even among the fans. Tarraborelli, the Diane Sawyer interview are much more famous than that.
When the tapes were released the whole world already know that she was dating him at the time. The whole tapes were not released in 1993, it was after that.
I know she was a third party but she said publicly that she was heavily involved at the time and why would he marry her if he had another girlfriend?
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Yes the Chandlers original complaint that listed all of the defendants lists Michael Jackson and Does 1-100 because they didn’t know all of the names.
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Aren’t we talking about the civil settlement of 1993?
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The original lawsuit against Michael included anyone who worked for him, heirs family altogether100 defendants. In the event that she married it would have been assumed to cover her as well.
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@Shelly
LMP is still a third party even if she was married to MJ or not. She was not part of any legal proceeding. Those proceeding involved: Jordan, Evan, June, Dave. Evan was married also to his second wife and her name was changed.
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The whole tapes were not released in 1993 but only a very small part of them. It was never the wholes tape. If they chose to change his girlfriend name why did they choose the name of his ex wife, if it was not her. Again the only part which was released in 1993 was only the small part we can read in Mary Fischer and Fischer never spoke about a girlfriend.
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Well, they didn’t change the names of those who were known to the wider public anyway (Michael, Jordie, June etc.) So Lisa can be a changed or an unchanged name too. If the name is changed it’s odd that they chose the name Lisa, because that could lead to misunderstandings, especially in this context (“if Michael loves (tape irregularity) Lisa”).
Michael and LMP first met in Nov., 1992 and according to LMP there was a little bit of romance going on BEFORE the allegations happened. She said that in one of her interviews around 2003.
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@Shelly,
MJ and LMP weren’t married when the tapes were released in early July 1993. They might have been dating, but they weren’t married. And LMP wasn’t involve in the 1993 investigation or lawsuit at all. All she did was advise him to settle like a lot of other people.
The actual transcripts weren’t release until 2005. So, why would they change everybody else name, but not her’s?
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I know but I don’t understand why change her name. I mean they were already married when the transcripts went public, she said herself they were romantically involved at the beginning of the molestation story. They change the name of people who were not involved in the story and were not famous.
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@Shelly,
Teva is right. The names have been changed to protect the third parties. In the transcripts, they mentioned Dave Schwartz and June’s daughter, but they call her Kelly when her name is Lily. And Evan’s wife is name Natalie, but in the transcripts they call her Monique.
I don’t think the Lisa mentioned in the transcript is Lisa Marie, but it is clear that MJ had someone in his life that he cared about at this time.
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@ visitor
I know that, I really found it funny that nobody mentionned that in those phone transcripts.
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@shelly MJ was dating LMP before the allegations and they were engaged before the settlement so Evan was probably talking about her. LMP told Taraborelli that she tried to convice MJ settle and go on with his life
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I never thought of that Teva. It’s possible but why would they do that at the time of the lawsuit he was already married. I guess the phone transcript after the lawsuit. Anyway he had a woman in his life.
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@Shelly,
Maybe there is no Lisa, maybe the names were changed to protect the indentities of third parties.
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@Shelly,
Good eye. So Michael discussed this Lisa person with Evan? If he is going to discuss his love life Evan, I wondered what else came up in their chats.
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What I find funny is usually when we spoke about those tapes we almost never mentionned the fact that there was a Lisa in MJ’s life at the time.
“MR. CHANDLER: — discuss why it might
5 be harmful.
6 Suppose I’m right? I mean if Michael
7 loves [tape irregularity] Lisa at least want to
8 hear my opinion about why what’s going on could be
9 potentially harmful? If you love somebody, you
10 don’t want them to get hurt.”
I am sure he is speaking about LMP
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To me there are two things those are greatly in favour of Michael:
1) Pedophiles are serial criminals. They can’t help themselves. Whenever they have the chance they do it. Michael had hundreds of children visiting him and Neverland all through the years and all we have are three children (I’m counting Jason Francia also) who claim he molested them. Two of those kids (Arvizo and Francia) have hightly questionable credibility. One of them (Arvizo) already lied under oath about his mother being molested by a JC Penny guard. Francia in his testemony basically “didn’t remember” anything and he and his mother claimed to have seen Michael molesting boys who themselves then testified they were never touched by him. It was also shown on court how the sheriff in 1993 talked him into testifiying against Michael by lying to him about Michael molesting boys like Macaulay Culkin and Corey Feldman and telling him that the only way they can help those boys if he testifies against Michael. And that’s when Jason – being played on his guilt if he doesn’t “help” – (who originally denied Michael ever touched him) started to say he was molested.
The third boy (Chandler) was never on court, so we couldn’t get a first-hand impression about his credibility, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he had turned out the way Arvizo and Francia turned out on court. In fact, he refused to testify in the 2005 trial…..
On the other hand, despite of all the efforts of Sneddon and all the money (and it was a LOT) he spent on finding more “victims” of MJ, he couldn’t come up with anything. Instead of that there are a lot of boys (now young adults) saying they were friends with Michael when they were children, but they were never molested or even touched by him in a suspicious way. That’s not how pedophiles behave! If they have a chance to prey on boys, believe me, they will take every opportunity! They won’t just molest one, two or three boys in a lifetime! Especially if, like Michael, have access to so many children.
2) Child molestation goes hand in hand with child pornography in 99% of the cases. But they never found child pornography in Neverland or on Michael’s computers. They never found traces to pedophile or “boy-man love” websites or anything like that. And it’s not becasue he didn’t use his computers to watch pornography. They did find pornography: adult, heterosexual pornography, naked women.
If finding child porn would have been damning evidence (and I agree it would have been – and like I said, in most pedophile cases they do find that!), then we have to admit: NOT finding child any pornography anywere in Michael’s possession is a strong evidence for him. At least to me it is.
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Thank you for this post. Reading this full transcript give me the opportunity to reflect on human worst behavior, or worst qualities of human species.
Mr Chandler, imo, was a frustrated/destroyed character with no self-esteem; a selfish/pride hurt/an extreme vindictive person that loved no one (who can love without self-esteem?), not even his son. He thought so, but he was only interested in vengeance…
he couldn’t allow that his own son could love MJ as a father… and he says this clearly:
«7 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t know where it’ll
8 go, but I’m saying is that when people — when
9 you — when people cut off communication totally,
10 you only have two choices: To forget about them,
11 or you get frustrated by their action. I can’t
12 forget about them. I love them. That’s it. I
13 don’t like them. I still love Jordy, but I do not
14 like them because I do not like the people that
15 they’ve become, but I do love them, and because I
16 love them I don’t want to see them [tape
17 irregularity]. That’s why I was willing to talk.
18 I have nothing to gain by talking. If
19 I go through with this, I win big time. There’s no
20 way that I lose. I’ve checked that out inside out.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: But when you say
22 “winning,” what are you talking about, “winning”?
23 MR. CHANDLER: I will get everything I
24 want, and they will be totally — they will be
25 destroyed forever. They will be destroyed. June
133
1 is gonna lose Jordy. She will have no right to
2 ever see him again.
(…)
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Does that help Jordy?
10 MR. CHANDLER: Michael’s career will be
11 over.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: And does that help
13 Jordy?
14 MR. CHANDLER: It’s irrelevant to me.»
A real FATHER would never ever do such a thing to his child (drugging a boy as part of an extortion plot). No matter what!!!
Regarding his ex- well, what more can be said then “cold and heartless”?!
I can understand why Jordan Chandler went to court when he was 16 and gained legal emancipation from both of his parents.
The suicide was nothing but the ultimate call for attentions and another piece of cheep vengeance… probably a last shout: See Jordan and June what you made me do?!
As to MJ this whole thing was a big mistake and the beginning of a big conspiracy, I’m sure!
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“MR. CHANDLER: You know, you gotta
2 forgive me for one thing, but I have been told by
3 my lawyer that if I say one thing to anybody –”
Another that he was on his guard. Noboy knows why he said Jordan was harmed, he knew he had to say something.
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JasD, he could mean anything as he was a man of contradiction and serious mental unbalance. What is top important is that “he had no idea” of what was going on – even despite the ‘evidence’ he referred to. So his ‘evidence’ did not point to anything directly and was based on his suspicions or imagination only.
Actually all of it was scrutinized by two grand juries later and they couldn’t find anything substantial to indict Michael in 1993/94. Despite what Evan stubbornly repeated later Michael was never charged. But it wouldn’t make any difference to Evan – he would still say he was.
The problem with Evan Chandler was that if he was fixed on something NO evidence or argument could change his opinion. Evan had a serious psychiatric disorder as is revealed by Diane Dimond (!). And you are wondering what this psychopath could mean by his words…
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14 MR. CHANDLER: Dave, Jordy’s — I
15 believe that Jordy’s already irreparably harmed.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
17 MR. CHANDLER: That’s my true belief.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think
19 that he’s fucking him?
20 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t know. I have no
21 idea.
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: But harmed in — in just
23 been spoiled?
24 MR. CHANDLER: No.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Just tell me –
156
1 MR. CHANDLER: You know, you gotta
2 forgive me for one thing, but I have been told by
3 my lawyer that if I say one thing to anybody –
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Okay.
so if he’s not talkin bout molestation wen he says Jordy is being harmed then wat else could he mean?
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Shelly, you are a marvel – thank you very much for the link. It is not only the song, but some court documents too. It will take some time and effort to struggle through that of course, but I promise to come back with whatever I find there.
Thanks again.
Need some sleep now (it is 2 am here already).
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“It could be a direct threat meant to warn Michael of possible circumstances if he didn’t do what Evan expected of him!”
According to Michael Freeman he did threatened MJ and June to speak to the media.
“It seems that Evan’s numerous referrals to this and that were probably intended not only for David’s, but for Pellicano’s, June’s and Michael’s ears too.”
I think he knew Dave was still speaking to June so whether he knew he was being recorded or not he at least knew Dave was going to speak to June about that phone call.
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Shelly, now I see what you mean. I somehow overlooked this factor and absolutely agree with you that Evan was very much on his guard (the proof of it is that he repeatedly refused to disclose any ‘evidence’ he had – the true worth of which we know now, by the way).
He was cautious and though he trusted David, was afraid that someone else, “who could have wired the house” could be listening to both of them. And as soon as he heard the beeping sound he suggested hanging up.
Your observation is correct and it suddenly gives another dimension to Evan’s convesation with David.
When someone thinks that the opponent is listening he will not be completely truthful in what he says and may often – even unintentionally – “play it for the audience”, showing off only the best side of his motives (concern for Jordan’s well-being), or assuring the ‘enemy’ he is not afraid of him (I don’t care how many bodyguards he comes with), or sending a message to the opponent (I hate you, June because you talk to me like that. And you should know that Michael is not interested in you – he doesn’t even like you, not to mention love!). It seems that Evan’s numerous referrals to this and that were probably intended not only for David’s, but for Pellicano’s, June’s and Michael’s ears too.
And his remarkable speech about hiring the nastiest man who was only waiting for his signal to turn Michael’s life into a massacre? It could be a direct threat meant to warn Michael of possible circumstances if he didn’t do what Evan expected of him!
All of the above is arising from a very simple thought Evan could very well think of those who were listening: “So you are evesdropping? So much the worse for you – take that!”. Of course it is only a guess, but is it still possible? I think it is…
Yes, Shelly, your observation that he thought he could be overheard by the ‘enemy’ definitely makes that tape even more interesting than we initially thought. And it also means that Evan was partially ready for the disclosure of the tape.
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The link for the song:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070916092707/http://www.courttv.com/archive/legaldocs/newsmakers/jackson.html
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” I think Evan did not know he was being recorded. ”
I don’t agree with you. Why would he says that if he didn’t know.
“MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you
21 this way: I have a set routine of words that I’m
22 going to go in there that have been rehearsed and
23 I’m going to say.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
25 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? Because I don’t
9
1 want to say anything that could be used against me.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
3 MR. CHANDLER: So I know exactly what I
4 can say. That’s why I’m bringing the tape
5 recorder.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.”
What I mean is I don’t think he knew for sure that Dave was recording him but he knew he had to be careful of what he said on the phone. He knew that Pellicano was involved at the time and Pellicano was already famous for that and if he didn’t know that his lawyer probably knew it and that is probably why he has been rehearsed.
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Shelly, if you’re talking about the taped conversation with David Schwartz I think Evan did not know he was being recorded. We need all our facts absolutely straight.
It was interesting to learn some of the names of the songs Evan Chandler wanted to sing about the case (could you give a link to details on that if you have it, please?). Evan definitely had a mania about Michael – which is a condition when nothing else (but the fixed idea) matters. This is evidently why he gave that notable answer to David who was concerned about Jordan’s well-being – “It is irrelevant to me”.
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Evan was a disgusting, sick, sick man – that song title shows this. How could he do that to his own son?!
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I don’t think he was really interested in his son’s well being otherwise why did he wanted to sing about the molestation of his son. Let’s not forget he knew he was being recorded
“43. As an additional direct and proximate result of Defendant Jackson’s and
others’ material breach of the agreement as herein alleged, and because of the
need to repair the reputation of the Plaintiff, Plaintiff seeks the equitable remedy
of an order to allow him to publish and cause to be distributed to the public for
sale a certain musical composition entitled “EVANstory.” This album will
include such songs as: “D.A. Reprised”: “You Have No Defense (For My
Love)”; “Duck Butter Blues”; “Truth”; and other songs.”
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Vindicate MJ, when I said supporting evidence, I meant supporting arguments because it’s true, there really isn’t any hard evidence to support the allegations. I guess I feel like i’m just gonna reserve judgement – because I truely am not sure.
Take this transcript for example, when it was played out in a little snippet it seemed to indicate extortion, however when played in its entirety – it doesn’t have the same effect. And that’s what I am saying, each side uses things like this in a certain way to make people feel a certain way.
That said, I think you’re doing a great job destroying these media myths (e.g. that the description was a match) – as some journalists blatently lie. And i’m sure it will at least make some people think twice as alot have people firmly believe MJ did it. Me, I can’t say one way or another.
Also, its great that you’re putting everything out there and not distorting it to your own opinion – its good that you let people share their opinion even if you do not agree with it.
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Quinn, may I ask you a question? What supporting evidence from Jordan’s side did you have in mind when you said “there was evidence from both sides?”
I’ve scrutinized every single bit found on the internet but couldn’t find anything credible. The evidence is facts and not just mere gossip. We cannot go by what people just SAY – a lot of what was said about Michael is just a heap of lies.
His manner of behavior was so gentle that it provoked some people to show themselves at their worst – they evidently thought him to be an easy prey.
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Quinn, sorry that I misinterpreted your words. You say “It does seem like his number one priority was money but that does not necessarily mean that it never happened”. That is true – same as Evan’s sounding genuine in that transcript does not necessarily mean that anything wrong ever happened. To be able to get to the bottom of the truth we need to look into other things (and not that transcript). I fully agree that it is awfully difficult to disprove any slander, especially the one concerning molestation, but getting at the truth is still possible – otherwise our life wouldn’t be worth living for.
As to Jordan I think that he’ll never speak up. Firstly, he seems to be part of the game and secondly, he may be afraid of having to return the money and being sued for damages. Funny, but the strange way he allegedly said he had lied about Michael is probably the only way for him to tell the truth without having to answer for it – this way his conscience is more or less clear and it saves him from all the trouble of making an official announcement. So I don’t rule out the possibility that the statement he probably made was actually TRUE.
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vindicatemj, I think you have misinterpreted my statement.
I am not saying, that because Evan may have believed something was going on, the allegations are true – I merely gave my opinion that he may have actually believed it.
I don’t doubt that his actions were – at best – suspect. As you stated, he claimed he didn’t want Jordan testify to avoid the media scrutiny, yet had no problem writing books through other people about the case. It does seem like his number one priority was money but that does not necessarily mean that it never happened.
Just to clarify, I am not saying I believe MJ did do it. There are many things to suggest otherwise – like the fact that the discripion was inaccurate (I almost spilt my tea when I saw the Jordan’s description in your post – how a mushroom could be described as an acurrate match to a penis, i’ll never know!). But there is supporting evidence from both sides. Molestaton is hard to prove but even harder to disprove. My point was just that we can’t be 100% sure one way or the other – the only way would be to hear it from the horse’s mouth – Jordan – but I doubt that will happen.
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Emma, you are absolutely right. The situation is unfortunately typical for cases when husband and wife break up and she finds a new partner and doesn’t want her former husband to interfere with her newly found love, especially if it is at a budding stage (what if this new very much desired man gets tired of it all and looks elsewhere?).
With all the benefit of the doubt I can muster for Evan Chandler, he reminds me of former husbands caught up in a love triangle who don’t want to lose touch with their children and are ready for anything in their desperation – only not all of them turn out to be THAT VICIOUS AND VINDICTIVE in doing it!
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To be honest what i see here is a man that is jealous that somebody has replaced him as a father figure. He said that Michael AND Jordy are users, and he also said that he wanted to destroy the three of them (thats MJ, June and Jordy) for what June had done to him, not destroy MJ alone for what he had done to Jordy. I don’t get the vibe at all that he genuinely thought that Michael had done something other than ‘break his family unit up.’
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Q, let’s make one thing clear. The fact that Evan Chandler genuinely believed that something was wrong does not mean that any wrong was really going on. In the same way Othello’s suspicions of Desdemona’s infidelity did not mean she was guilty of it – she was innocent but he nevertheless strangled her – because he thought she was.
So what someone thinks about this and that does not mean it is really taking place – the reality may be completely different from someone’s beliefs.
The only real facts Evan Chandler’s tape testifies to are:
1) the motives for his behavior might have been different from what we initially thought them to be (could be more of a feeling than calculation – at least at that stage)
2) he was the man whose actions and decision-making were easily influenced by his imagination (no wonder he was a script writer).
3) the fact that after interviewing several people he intentionally hired a “nasty guy” whom he gave orders to “ruin” Michael and turn his life into a “massacre” speaks either of his uncontrollable temper or his own nastiness or both of these.
He admitted that he had little tangible to work on (it was his imagination that killed him) and that he “had no idea what was going on”. But is it reason enough for turning another person’s life into a bloodshed? Humiliate him “beyond belief” and completely destroy him? Isn’t it too much for suspicions only?
We know at least of the two events that followed which show that Evan was incapable of controlling his emotions – he made an attempt on Jordan’s life and committed suicide soon after Michael’s death. No one will convince me that the suicide was due to his pains only – with all his money he could have bought all the painkillers in the world. No, his suicide is quite a tale-telling event… Again reminds me of Othello who killed himself upon learning that he had accused an innocent person.
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I agree with Tanya – we don’t know what happened – we weren’t there. He seems genuine in his belief that the relationship is negatively effecting Jordy. I love MJ the artist – but the truth is we don’t know what he was like as a person. I really hope this isn’t the case but it could be possible that he did do it. We can’t say definitively what happened – so we shouldn’t pass judgement on any of the parties involved.
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Tanya, I also think it could be somewhere in the middle. He could probably start with a suspicion and then work himself up into a state of complete insanity. You remember Geraldine Hughes saying Evan looked extremely nervous, almost a nervous wreck while the boy was calm and seemed to be soothing his father? Life is just like that – it is not a black-and-white situation with no shades in between. Someone could have convinced Jordan that it was Michael who brought his father into such a miserable state and Jordan could have started telling lies out of pity and compassion for his father, for example…
Evan Chandler seems to be a man entangled in his own emotions – which does NOT justify his behavior, but enables us to understand a couple of things about him. His genuine emotions could be the reason why he committed suicide – though he never admitted it, a suspicion that he could have been WRONG probably did not let him live in peace. It couldn’t be his disease only – his money could buy him all the painkillers he needed. To me he seems to be just another Judah’s case – first betrayal and then impossibility to live with it…
By the way JUNE CHANDLER will never commit suicide. The way I see it she IS really cold and calculating (just as both husbands said it) and she was VERY much in control of the situation. She clearly had plans of her own for Michael and I wouldn’t be surprised if she intentionally thrust her son on Michael for him to get attached to the boy and tie him to her and her family this way.
Remember some parents saying that she was bossy and behaved like a mistress when in Neverland? And I’ll never forget her saying that Michael “was invited” to stay at her home (for 2 weeks first and some more days later, all in all some 30 days). “WAS invited”? It was HER who invited him there and that’s that!
Let us not allow ourselves to be fooled by that woman, she has been doing it long enough.
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Reading this just confuses me more. Evan does seem genuine in his belief that something is going on. But we will never really know the truth – could even be somewhere in the middle.
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