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How to tell a TRUE testimony from a FAKE one

March 30, 2010

UPDATED 30.07.10

I’ve read about the heinous crimes of child molestation by clergymen and feel completely sick now.

Besides the devastation of all that evidence and its horrendous details, it somewhat dismayed me to see that some of these men’s ways looked similar to what Michael Jackson was accused of. This made me wonder in real despair whether it is possible at all to tell a lie from the truth and draw a clear line between a real child abuser and an innocent man, if the circumstances of their relationship with children are more or less the same.

The situation looked to me completely hopeless but only until I read the testimonies of real victims. 

The several hours of this horrific reading left me in a kind of a stupor with the blood throbbing in my head, the heart pounding madly and me staring blindly at the wall. Twenty or thirty years after the actual events the survivors of child abuse are describing their horrible experience in such a way that it makes you feel every little bit of their horror, confusion, fear, shame and guilt as if all this was happening to you, not them…

And this was when I recalled the evidence which Jordan Chandler’s side presented as ‘proof’ of misconduct on the part of Michael Jackson – Jordan’s Declaration of December 28, 1993 and his Interview with psychiatrist Dr. Richard Gardner on October 6, 1993.

I suddenly remembered that when reading them for the first time I couldn’t help thinking that for a 13-year old ‘victim’ Jordan sounded remarkably, even superhumanly calm and composed. Only three months after the alleged relationship was over he was narrating his story in an amazingly quiet and matter-of-fact way, dividing the ‘relationship’ into various stages, reflecting on this and that and calmly correcting himself as regards the dates, locations and what did or didn’t take place there.

There was something terribly wrong about his story and something terribly missing there, and after reading the testimony of REAL victims I realized what it was – the emotions, yes, those gut-wrenching emotions which non-victims cannot imagine and cannot fake no matter how hard they are trying to do it.

The real testimonies show that despite all the children’s love for their would-be abusers (most of whom were revered by the children and their parents before the unfortunate events) none of the victims liked it when they were sexually approached by those men.

No, it was completely the other way about – the children were perplexed, bewildered and horrified. They felt that something totally strange, unusual and incomprehensible was happening to them. True, they kept silence about the experience as they felt shame and guilt for their own behavior, poor things, but ALL of them fought their accusers like mad, resisted their approaches and did everything possible within a child’s power to avoid meeting them again.

What a stark contrast with Jordan Chandler!

But I see that you are thinking that emotions are something which can be easily suppressed by will power or forgotten by distracting oneself in this or that way? NO WAY.

Emotions are so sticky to one’s memory that even after some 20 or 30 years the feelings of the abused victims will still be so intense that many of them prefer speaking of themselves in the third person only (he, she, John, Belinda) in order to dissociate themselves from the unfortunate boy or girl they were in their distant past.

In short after seeing testimonies of real victims I have started doubting more than ever the credibility of Jordan’s revelations to his psychiatrist or the official statement he made on Dec.28,1993 (a week after Michael declared his innocence in that via satellite statement). The easy and matter-of-fact manner in which Jordan is narrating his story there is absolutely stunning.

I really need to repeat what amazed me beyond measure and it was the fact that Jordan showed COMPLETE LACK OF EMOTION when telling the story of his alleged abuse.

Despite all the graphic details he describes in his interview Jordan sounds totally devoid of any feeling, which is absolutely – I repeat – absolutely impossible in the case of a real victim. Even if children like him did not fully comprehend what was going on with them they were still frightened out of their guts by what was going on and devastated by having to deal with this terrible secret all on their own.

However when you read Jordan’s interview with psychiatrist Dr. Richard Gardner you will probably think that Jordan is just an aloof outsider or someone taught or rehearsed to say all those things none of which bother him too much. 

In fact he cannot even remember when the alleged molestation took place though the events he is describing allegedly took place only several months before that. Though he is talking to the psychiatrist in  October he cannot even remember whether it was summer or spring (though in July that summer Jordan was already staying in his father’s home).  He can more or less place the “molestation” scene only when he recalls a real fact from his life – which was the need to read a book for the finals. Over here he remembers everything – the title of the book and that he received all As for it:

RG: “And how long were you at Euro-Disney?”

 JC: “I don’t know, a week or two at most.”

RG: “Was this during the summer?”

 JC: “I don’t know. No, wait, no actually now that I remember, up ‘til now, nothing was past the summer now that I remember, because – – ”

RG:  “So, Monaco was before the summer?”

 JC:  “Everything.”

RG: “Euro-Disney was before the summer?”

 JC:  “Yes, everything.  Now I remember because I had a book to read for finals.  It was called  To Kill A Mockingbird….

RG: “By the way, if this was before the summer, this is the school time. When you’re in all these other places, what’s going on with school?”

JC: “Well, I managed to still get all As; I brought my book with me.”

And over here Jordan Chandler doesn’t remember even the year of alleged molestation and sounds as emotional as a cold fish:

J:     I believe it was after the summer. After the summer of ’92 but not…
RG: We’re in ’93.
J:     Right. So it was before, like, I believe I had a break in school in February.
RG: When was the first hug?
J:     I don’t know.
RG: Do you have any idea?
J:    No.
RG: Was it before the summer of ’93?
J:    I would think early May, middle May.
RG: What’s the next step?
J:     Let’s see, I think the next step was…
RG: What thoughts were on your mind [at that moment]?
J: I thought, it’s weird. It’s like it didn’t feel right but yet it felt good.
RG: Do you feel guilty?
J:    Yeah. I regret doing it.
RG: What about fears? Any fears of any kind?
J:   No.
RG: You have no fears?
J:   Maybe of cross-examination but that’s all. I have nothing to hide.

So Jordan Chandler completely misread what kind of fears the psychiatrist was talking about. He thought they had to do with being confused by a cross-examination in court or hiding something – which is quite a tale-telling mistake on his part. In comparison with the panicky way real victims talked about their abuse Jordan completely missed the point of the question and his words in general sounded too much sterile and too much of a lie.

Whether the lie was deliberate or implanted into Jordan’s memory through that sodium amytal drug which we’ve all heard so much about, does not really matter. The only thing that matters is Jordan’s complete lack of emotion while he was telling his story.

Fake stories or artificially implanted false memories are simply incapable of conveying the genuine and intense emotions experienced by real victims of abuse and their lack betrays their fabricated nature. Psychologists say that it is possible to induce people to have artificial emotions under the influence of some drugs or hypnosis (for example), but only in case these people have ever experienced these emotions before and are told under hypnosis that when they wake up and speak about the scene of alleged “molestation” they will be panicky and feel like throwing up. Otherwise they will simply not know what they are supposed to feel when describing that scene.

Jordan showed not a single sign of any emotion, except probably boredom. Please compare it with how really abused children feel. Wishing to spare you the details of their horrifying testimonies I will reproduce here only the emotions they experienced in the cases similar to those described by Jordan. And then you will see what makes a TRUE testimony of an abused child different from a FAKE one:

… I was totally shocked and scared… totally confused by what had just happened.

… I was terrified about it and I could not believe what was happening to me. When everyone got up the next morning I told my friend I was feeling sick and wanted to go home. I was terrified of what might happen if I’d stay another night in that cabin. My adolescence was ended that night in the cabin by the river. Not only was I robbed of my youthful innocence that night, I was robbed of something more precious, my faith.

…All of my trust, love, self-respect and self-image were destroyed at that moment.

… The depression started with the first abuse and still continues. My self-esteem was shot. Many things happened to me after the abuse that I didn’t understand. I suffered from depression, a suicide attempt, alcohol and problems with authority.

… When doing it I felt like throwing up. I told him I didn’t feel comfortable doing that.

… I have very powerful memories of the abuse. When he did it I became petrified. I didn’t understand what was happening. I was in such a state of shock I didn’t say anything to anyone about what had happened to me.

… I wanted so desperately to be heard. I wanted someone to listen to me. I wanted someone to help me. I wanted to break the silence and despair that was killing me. I wanted someone to hear my story.  I find it easier to tell my story using the name John. I can revisit my pain and not hurt myself again.

… I remember him doing things to me that had never been done to me before. I did not know what to call it. He told me it was ok, it was part of growing up, it was normal. This left me confused questioning in my own mind how could this be? How could we do this? Does he think about it when he is saying mass? I wondered if he told anyone. I was confused. I was afraid. At the time, I told no one, but then again, I did not know how to talk about it or what to say. I became less active in the church, but then again I got a job, so that was the excuse. I went to mass, but stood in the back. I would not go to communion to him because it did not feel right.

… I was conscious of what was happening. I was terrified, I couldn’t move! I felt very humiliated…Throughout all of these terrible events I was too emotionally scared to call home. Throughout the trip I was very scared, puzzled and confused but I felt that if tried to get any help, he would get very angry. I had to push him away forcefully. I felt sick and embarrassed… I was afraid of what would happen and tried to use excuses to go home to get ready for school…. I would resist as much as I could…. I would struggle very hard to get him to stop but he would not listen. I never said anything in those times because I was so frightened.

…  Sleeping during the night was difficult, often times I would wake up because his hands were touching me. My initial response to this experience was one of nausea and confusion.  As the abuse continues over time, young vulnerable victims of priests wonder: “where can I go with this, who can I trust, I am so sad, I’m angry, I don’t know where to turn.”

… I pushed him off and ran away from him. I ran out of his room, down the stairs, out the rectory door and into the street. I was so scared that I didn’t look before I crossed the street and I was hit by a car… I never spoke to him again.

None of this is found in Jordan’s conversation with a psychiatrist.

Funny that the only strong emotion Jordan did feel during that interview was when the psychiatrist asked him about a subject which was really touchy for him. It was then that all his confidence and calmness were gone and his voice trailed off into something completely inaudible and he felt so embarrassed that the discussion was interrupted for a break:

RG: Most kids around your age start to masturbate by themselves usually without any kind of experience with another person.[ ] Have you continued to do it?
J:    I did, I believe, six times after the end of our relationship.
RG: And not since?
J:     And not since.
RG: Okay, why did you stop?
J:     I didn’t (inaudible)
RG: That’s it. Let’s separate the feeling from him.
J: (inaudible)
(inaudible)
RG: Let’s do this. Let’s take a break for about ten-fifteen minutes and then we’ll continue. So you stretch your legs. [ ] Okay, so let’s interrupt.

*    *    *

A co-advocate of Michael’s innocence Louise has offered a continuation to this post in the form of a language analysis which I am posting here as a postscript.

She says:

“I will use some of the testimonies published in the article “How to tell a TRUE testimony from a Fake one” and will add some new ones and Jordan (Jordan’s talk to Dr. Gardner) and Gavin (at the court)’s testimony as well. All samples will be anonymous.

After presenting 7 samples, I will study the language used in all of them and then we’ll see if we can draw some conclusions.

Here are the 7 samples:

… Every day and life in general [are] like a trial. I have been the victim of one of cousins who molested me … I know well how it feels when you are afraid of yourself, of the questions without any answer. I wonder often if my reactions to different feelings are caused by what he did to me. Would I act differently if this had not happened to me? The fear of being like him …

From the age of 9 until 15, I have suffered my mother’s boyfriend who first molested me and then penetrated me. Now I am 41 and all my issues are there. I cannot have children of my own, I cannot have a normal sexual life (once a month it’s already too much). Having the courage to carry on it is good but to be able to live the life is better if someone knows how to do it.

3 In phase one nothing happened… Let’s see, I think the next step was, I had an erection and he rubbed up against me and that was it… And he did, he did as well… We were on top of each other… Several things happened. One, he grabbed my butt; put his tongue in my ear… The next step, we went back home to LA and he continued doing the things I hadn’t stopped him from doing… we were alone and we took a bath together. That was the first time we ever saw each other naked… so he continued that for, like, a lot of the trip. And he kept on saying, ‘Tell me when you’re ready and I’ll do it for you.’ because up till then I had never masturbated or anything. And I had never, ever, indicated to him that I was ready, like, to be masturbated. And I guess that wasn’t according to his plans, and so, one time he just reached over and said, “Okay, just tell me how this feels.’ And he put his hand on my shorts and he said, ‘Now doesn’t that feel good.’ And he rubbed up and down. And I said ‘Yeah.’… I had a book to read for finals… Well, I managed to still get all As; I brought my book with me… he was masturbating me… I masturbated him…

4 Do you remember November month? November is cold, rainy and sad. It’s all I remember about November. When it comes, I want to bury me in a corner until March. Do you remember November month? I do. I was on the third floor, going to you classroom. Do you remember the corridor? On the left, there were five or six cupboards. On the right, there were the stairs leading to the second floor. It was too narrow and dark. Suddenly, you showed up. You walked to my direction. Do you want to know what I saw with my young eyes? Do you want to know what my small body felt? Do you want to know what was in my head at that moment? I am offering it to you. You did not say hello to me. You did not look at me. But when you came close to me you grabbed me and you put your hand between my thighs, the thighs of a child. You put two of your fingers and forced them into me through my trousers. You wanted put them inside me, did not you? Inside a child was not it? You pushed and pushed until I was hurt yes it hurt me. You pulled you back and went away. I could not walk. I stopped walking. “He did not say sorry” … But at that time I was too depressed at school. … Every time you came close to me, I was so tense. When you put your hands on my shoulders, in my hair, I stopped breathing and talking. My heart beat fast. The victim’s trauma towards his or hers attacker. … After the end of school trip, my strange psychological suffering began ….

  We were laying on the bed and he told me – he told me that men have to masturbate – well, males have to masturbate or else they won’t be able to like – – like be normal, they’ll always be like unstable, because they have to … He told me if I knew how .. I said no … He told me that he wanted to teach me … So we were laying in the bed, and then he started rubbing me … He put his hand down my pants and he started rubbing me … He was masturbating me … Probably five minutes or something like that …

 … I pushed him off and ran away from him. I ran out of his room, down the stairs, out the rectory door and into the street. I was so scared that I didn’t look before I crossed the street and I was hit by a car… I never spoke to him again.

 … Sleeping during the night was difficult, often times I would wake up because his hands were touching me. My initial response to this experience was one of nausea and confusion. As the abuse continues over time, young vulnerable victims of priests wonder: “where can I go with this, who can I trust, I am so sad, I’m angry, I don’t know where to turn.

Let’s look at the vocabulary used in every sample:

1. every day and life are like a trial, victim of molestation, how it feels, afraid of oneself, questions without answers, reactions caused by what he did to me, fear.

2. suffered molestation, penetration, issues not solved, cannot have children, cannot have a normal sexual life, have the courage to carry on.

3. phase one, progress, let’s see, the next step was, had an erection, rub against me, on top of each other, several things happened, grabbed my butt, put his tongue, the next step, continued, took a bath together, the first time we saw each other naked, had never masturbated up till then, put his hand, rubbed, I said “Yeah”, had a book to read for finals, managed to get all As, brought the book with me, he masturbated me, I masturbated him.

4. remember November, cold, rainy and sad, all I remember, to bury me in the corner up to March, go to the classroom, the corridor narrow and dark, suddenly showed up, in my direction, I saw with my young eyes, my small body felt, in my head, did not look or say hello, came close, grabbed me, put your hand, between my thighs, the thighs of a child, forced your fingers through my trousers, pushed and pushed, was hurt, it hurt me, went away, could not walk, stopped walking, did not say sorry, too depressed at school, came close, was so tense, put your hand on my shoulder, stopped breathing, heart beat fast, the victim, trauma, attacker, strange, psychological suffering began.

5. lay on the bed, men have to masturbate, like normal, like unstable, said know how, I said no, want to teach me, so lay in the bed, masturbate probably five minutes, rub, put his hand, down my pants.

6. pushed him off, ran away, ran out, down the stairs, out the door, so scared, didn’t look, hit by car, never spoke again

7. sleeping difficult, wake up, touch me, nausea, confusion, abuse, vulnerable, victims, wonder, sad, angry, where to turn, where to go with this.

Conclusion :

Comparing these samples to each other, we note that the third and the fifth ones are different from the five others by lack of emotion. One would say robots are speaking in 3 and 5. The only verbs expressing an emotion are “not to like” and “not to want to do it” (if we speak of the whole of the text). There are very few adjectives in these two passages.

The choice of the verbs is also important. In the first two extracts we read: “to be victim of somebody’s molestation”, “to suffer somebody’s molestation” while in the third and the fifth, we have “to masturbate somebody”.

Compare this sentence “Sleeping during the night was difficult, often times I would wake up because his hands were touching me” with “He put his hand in my short / pants”. The first one makes us to shiver. We feel the suffering of the person; we feel almost these hands that touch. On the other hand, the second one resembles a youthful sexual activity tale.

While samples 3 and 5 are almost neutrally expressed, the others are full of strong emotions: fear, rage, hate, despair… People speak using words like: vulnerable victims, the abuser, the abused…

Jordan vs. Gavin Arvizo:

You will find Jordan’s conversation with Dr. Gardner here: http://michael-jackson-facts.yolasite.com/jordie.php. Gavin’s court testimony is here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0215053accuser1.html.

The first important thing to notice is that Gavin says almost the same as Jordan. Indeed, Jordan’s lies are the model that had been followed closely by the other accusers. After all, the father and the son helped by their lawyer, their psychiatrist and Sneddon succeed together to fill up their pockets with several million dollars. Consequently, they were the best example to follow. Therefore the Arvizo also engaged the same lawyer and the same shrink. Surely, they had lots of dreams about all the wonderful dollars that they could get from Michael. But this time, MJ had learnt his lesson.

A true victim of sexual abuse rarely forgets the place of the crime as well as the dates. When reading the two kids’ lies, we notice that the places are apparently clear in their tales but the dates create issues. Jordan was mistaken several times and he was not always able to correct his mistakes. Gavin is even more ridiculous. Sneddon & Co decided to place the dates of the so-called abuse two weeks before the airing of Bashir’s treachery. But when they discovered that Michael Jackson had alibi for this period of time, they moved the dates to weeks after the airing of the film.

In his talk with Dr. Gardner, Jordan has admitted that he loved Neverland and other places where he proclaimed that the sexual abuse took place. He wanted to follow Michael Jackson to his tour even after the accusations had been made. A true victim of sexual abuse flees his / her abuser and hates the places of the crime.

A true testimony of sexual abuse is often precise. The terms are clear and the victims talk without hesitation. During his talk, Jordan has used 40 times the expression “I don’t know”. Gavin is even vaguer. He repeats himself several times and the expression “I don’t know” comes back constantly. The member of jury judged Gavin’s words and his appearances not like a true testimony of sexual abuse.

Often the victim of sexual abuse suffers for the rest of his life. Some of the victims succeed to have a bearable life only after several years of therapy. At the end of his talk with Dr. Gardner, Jordan said that he had found himself a girlfriend. He also mentioned that he was good at school and could still get A’s though he was “molested”!

During this session with Gardner, he even mentioned some of Michael’s learning about the meditation, the levitation and freedom from the gravitation. He is shown as quick on the uptake and a calculating young person not like many other teenagers. His life after the settlement is a proof of it because he became rich like a king, powerful and he had lots of fun in his life.

In February 1997, People magazine wrote this:

” […] Jordy has amassed huge wealth. His most recent bank statements show he has pounds 3 million-worth of bonds and shares alone. And he enjoys dabbling on the stock market with the help of his financial guru Jeffrey Hahn, vice president of the Santa Monica Bank.
He goes to a private school which he partly owns.
Jordy instructed his financial aides to buy into the Crossroads School when he noticed how much his annual fees were.
And after he bought himself a trendy Nissan Pathfinder vehicle and noticed how much money he was spending on petrol, he bought shares in Mobil, Chevron and Texaco. When he discovered the Internet on his computer he bought shares in Hewlett Packard Computers and telephone companies.
He even bought part of his bank, the Bank of New York.
Jordy has developed a taste for expensive clothes.
When he plays roller hockey outside his home he dons Armani trousers.
He surfs in Florida, scuba-dives in the Bahamas and skis in Taos and Vail, Colorado.
But all the holidays merely serve as a distraction. […]”
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-61114091.html

 *  *  *

DAVID EDWARDS is also making an addition in the form of a videotape where a grown-up man who was molested in his childhood cannot hold himself when telling about his past experience (which took place some 20 years ago!).  When you see things like that and recall Ray Chandler’s words that “Jordan has easily recovered from the abuse due to some therapy” you can immediately understand all the difference in the world between a true victim and a FAKE one.

David says about it:

Here is a video of actor Todd Bridges, who was a child star in the 80′s from the sitcom “Diff’rent Strokes” (along with the late, great Gary Coleman). In this clip, he talks with Oprah about the child molestation he suffered at the hands of an adult male.

In the first video, he begins to discuss this at the 3:30 mark. Look at his reaction when he finishes reading the excerpt from his book that describes the molestation! Notice the EMOTIONS that he has! He can barely compose himself! Now read Jordie Chandler’s Oct. 1993 interview with Dr. Gardner, and notice the complete LACK OF EMOTION! Did Jordie ever stop to cry? No!!!

Next, here’s where it gets interesting! Notice the reaction that Todd Bridges’ mother had when he told her that he had been molested, and she tried to get the molester to leave her home and he wouldn’t!

And then at 2:04, NOTICE WHAT TODD BRIDGES SAYS HE’LL DO TO ANYONE WHO MOLESTS HIS CHILDREN!! I had to write that in all caps in order to emphasize my point!

Now, compare the reactions of Todd Bridges and his mom to the actions of Evan Chandler when found out that Jordie had been “molested” by MJ!! Tell me whose story is more credible! LOL!

44 Comments leave one →
  1. January 23, 2012 11:04 pm

    Todd bridges on MJ http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/116095-Former-Child-Star-Todd-Bridges-on-Michael?highlight=pornography

    Shelly, thanks. For those who cannot translate the screenshot provided in that link, here is a short excerpt from what Todd Bridges wrote about Michael in his latest book “Killing Willis”:

    “He was basically this big kid, always finding the fun in everything.
    I didn’t ever really get to know the rest of the family that well, but Janet, Michael, LaToya, and I spent a lot of time together that year. Michael was always just silly and a lot of fun. Not that he ever really had the chance to be himself. We were both struggling with the challenges of growing up in the public eye, and that meant putting on a smile even when things were far from fine. He never got a break. I think, eventually, it was too much for him.”

    Like

  2. lynande51 permalink
    May 9, 2011 4:45 pm

    And those words are from a real victim of molestation.

    Like

  3. Suzy permalink
    May 9, 2011 4:08 pm

    We had the videos about Todd Bridges in this post (although as I see Harpo productions have deleted them since from YouTube). Just an interesting sidenote. Bridges has a book out titled “Killing Willis” and there’s a small part about Michael in it:

    Like

  4. shelly permalink
    October 23, 2010 11:40 pm

    @Suzy

    I don’t know if he is stalking him or not but that article is very strange because when you read it you have the feeling that Jordan is a billionnaire.
    According to them he partly own his school, his bank, he bought shares in Mobil, Chevron & Texaco, Hewlett Packard and he had 3 millions pounds in his bank account.
    How did they know that?

    Like

  5. Suzy permalink
    October 23, 2010 7:12 am

    @ shelly

    If all this was made up by VG (possible, of course), I wonder if he is still stalking the boy. Because remember those pics of Jordan in 2007 on that Word of Wonder website that is owned by VG’s buddies. VG is sick, no matter what!

    Like

  6. shelly permalink
    October 22, 2010 10:49 pm

    No offense Helena,

    But I think the article is bull. Their source is Gutierrez

    “”All Jordy wants is to be a normal kid,” said author Victor Gutierrez, who wrote the investigative book Michael Jackson Was My Lover: The Secret Diary of Jordy Chandler. “But he can’t have that. The memories are too painful, and no amount of money can compensate for that.”

    ‘But already Jordy has amassed huge wealth. His most recent bank statements show he has pounds 3 million-worth of bonds and shares alone.’

    I wonder how they know that, it’s private

    Like

  7. Alison permalink
    October 22, 2010 9:47 pm

    Hi, not sure if you want these but i said i’d look it up and let you know, so here it is.
    this boy,james blake cameron was 13 when he started conning people. he set up a web site selling non existent plasma tv’s then it just went on from there. he was certainly very smart.
    have a look, they don’t work as links i don’t think, not sure how to do it.

    2007, aged 16:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/05/03/250-000-conman-aged-13-115875-19036130/

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2007/05/09/con-boy-held-again-115875-19067548

    this year

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/03/23/i-was-not-expecting-that-115875-22132146/

    Like

  8. shelly permalink
    October 22, 2010 12:13 pm

    @dialdancer

    Hugues worked for Barry Rothman not Feldman

    Like

  9. Dialdancer permalink
    October 22, 2010 9:06 am

    @ Helena,

    This surprises me not at all. There is a part in Ms. Hughes book about two of Jordan’s visits to Feldman, one unaccompanied and the other when the Media was hunting for father and son, and they were hiding out in Feldman’s office. It was Jodan who ensured Evan held it together. A young boy who played around the secretary’s office seemly unaffected by supposed molestations or the Media. Chatting with the Secretary, none of the embarrassment you would expect from having this stranger know you had engaged in something so shameful.

    Like

  10. October 21, 2010 6:57 pm

    “Jordie was a lot smarter than people give him credit for.”

    Yes, David. Just as a reminder here is an excerpt from the People Magazine dated February 1997 (Jordan had just turned 17) which says:

    “But already Jordy has amassed huge wealth. His most recent bank statements show he has pounds 3 million-worth of bonds and shares alone. And he enjoys dabbling on the stock market with the help of his financial guru Jeffrey Hahn, vice president of the Santa Monica Bank.

    He goes to a private school which he partly owns.

    Jordy instructed his financial aides to buy into the Crossroads School when he noticed how much his annual fees were.

    And after he bought himself a trendy Nissan Pathfinder vehicle and noticed how much money he was spending on petrol, he bought shares in Mobil, Chevron and Texaco. When he discovered the Internet on his computer he bought shares in Hewlett Packard Computers and telephone companies.

    He even bought part of his bank, the Bank of New York.”

    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-61114091.html

    Like

  11. October 21, 2010 6:39 pm

    “am very interested to read about jordie’s lifestyle and business acumen. i watched a tv program yesterday about cheats and cons and the most interesting and arresting story was of a 13 year old boy called james cameron who conned lots of people because he wanted to live the high life. i will look up more about him and come back to you with it because it works to debunk the myth about 13 year old boys being so innocent. it was the planning and sophistication of it at such a young age that got my attention.”

    Yeees, Alison, this is a very interesting point. Also please note that Jordan Chandler was a co-writer of the script for Robin Hood, man in tights film which is full of sexual innuendoes as the people who saw it say – so he should have been very well versed in things like that. The boy also evidently had a gift for writing – he once complained that Evan ‘wanted’ him to write scripts.

    And his follow-up movements like getting an estrangement from both of his parents the next year (?) after the settlement (evidently to get direct access to money) and his heavy investment activities speak to a huge business talent and acumen. Yes, there is much more to that boy than we habitually think.

    If you manage to find something we’ll be thrilled to know it.

    Like

  12. lcpledwards permalink
    October 20, 2010 9:49 pm

    @ Alison
    You’re right, Jordie was a lot smarter than people give him credit for. Not only did he help write the script for “Robin Hood: Men in Tights”, but it was his idea! Mel Brooks, who was one of the producers, wanted to list Jordie in the film’s final credits! The reason Brooks was sold on the movie is because it was a spoof of “Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves”, and he had done his own spoof movie called “Spaceballs”, which spoofed “Star Wars”.

    For more info on Jordie, you can read the article below:

    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/08/17/refuting-the-legal-analysts/

    Like

  13. Alison permalink
    October 20, 2010 9:35 pm

    totally agree with all your comments and analysis of this, i thought exactly the same sort of things the first time i read those texts / statements. also gavin on the larry nimmer dvd – i just stared at it with my mouth opoen when i saw it, i couldn’t believe anyon ewould be taken in by it, so obviously lies, for same reasons, no emotion, neutral wording, also body language.

    also, another comment on the language anyalysis you did which was very good. jordie’s words sound more pornographic than anything else. compare a trashy book or magazine installment (which i have made the mistake of doing once or twice)where sex is described in mechanistic terms, with a better quality novel where emotions are described because the author writes from some experience. i don’t know whether jordie put his story together from reading or watching porn, from his own sexual fantasies or from evan’s instructions but its from one of those 3, not from any real situation unless a situation he himself created from his fantasy.

    also, am very interested to read about jordie’s lifestyle and business acumen. i watched a tv program yesterday about cheats and cons and the most interesting and arresting story was of a 13 year old boy called james cameron who conned lots of people because he wanted to live the high life. i will look up more about him and come back to you with it because it works to debunk the myth about 13 year old boys being so innocent. it was the planning and sophistication of it at such a young age that got my attention.

    Like

  14. August 26, 2010 11:49 pm

    Hi Sonic,

    My sympathies as well.

    Thanks for giving us the inside view from a victim’s perspective.

    Like

  15. shelly permalink
    August 26, 2010 9:28 pm

    Are we sure Jordan saw that doctor. I don’t understand why Tarraborelli who spoke to Evan never spoke about that doctor (if I remember well)

    Like

  16. August 25, 2010 9:14 pm

    Sonic, it’s already past one o’clock in the morning here and I really need to have some sleep – but I just want to tell you how sorry I am to hear your story… What you are telling us is very important. Of all the people you are able to understand better than anyone else what a really molested child feels and that he or she cannot behave like Jordan the cold fish during that interview.

    As to the psychiatrist your questions are very much to the point and we will need to look into that too. There is some information about the doctor and his research in the links I’ve just posted in the replies to the adjoining post (about Ray Chandler).

    I hope you stay with us.
    Here you are among friends.

    Good night.

    Like

  17. Sonic permalink
    August 25, 2010 8:36 pm

    Hey everybody🙂
    First of all, thank you for this website, I’m reading it and I’m quite depressed now, but also happy because someone if fighting for the truth.

    I was looking for info about dr.gardner, the psychiatrist who interviewed Jordan, and I found this article. Now I have some questions, maybe you know where I can find the answer! What were the consequences of this inteview? Does exist an opinion of gardner about this interview? Did he believed Jordan? I read there’s some controversy about this doctor, I read some of his answers about what he calls “myths” about him, one of those being that somehow he “support” paedophilia, thing he denied completely. Now I’m asking myself… why send Jordan exactly to this doctor, who has this kind of controversy around him? If I know my child has been molested, I wouldn’t choose someone with this fame! (i’m not criticizing the doctor, I know too less about him to say my opinion.) And I also don’t understand why in the hater website (Hi Ray! -__-) there is this interview. Shouldn’t it be strictly private conversation doctor-patient? And why there’s the conversation… but not the opinion of the doctor? That is for sure less private, and if it was positive that Jordan was telling the truth, it would add more points to the hater’s thesis, am I wrong?
    Is the opinion of the doctor known? Because I can’t find it!

    And now I will tell about my personal experience. Since it’s personal, my word is not the law, but I want to share with you my feelings.
    I have been molested when I was 14 by an older man (I’m a female). Among other things, one thing I totally, completely can’t relate to is how Jordan tells about saying “no” to Michael. Not everytime there is a child molestation episode the kid is scared, not consciously at least. Sometimes, and that’s my case, he’s thinking that “it is right”. When it happened, I prefered to think that I wanted it, and that it was somehow also my responsability for what was happening, because it was better that thinking that it was wrong. So I never actively said no to anything. I actually put myself in the situations that followed the first time, because I was thinking that I wanted it, that it was right that way, because it was better than thnking “this is very very wrong”. Hope you understand what I mean.
    So the way Jordan said no… I don’t understand it. If he was able to say no, why he didn’t say no also the other times? And if he was thinking it was “right”, as I thought, how could he be able to say no? I remember the last time I saw the man, I said no too. He touched my neck to bring me near to him and I said no… but actually in the moment he touched me my mind went completely blank, and I said no without even thinking… it was just NO. And after that I realized that he actually just asked me if I was cold because I was shaking, and he thought that no was the answer to his question, but the truth was that I didn’t hear a word he said.
    So Jordan that with all the tranquillity in the world just say “I don’t like this” and that everything else then goes on and on, and he can’t even remember when exactly the things happened (at least the first time), and then he’s scared of the cross-examination (?!?), and he doesn’t feel guilty or ashamed at all, and he doesn’t seem to have a problem in the world… I know that every case is different, but for me this makes no sense.

    ps = Sorry for my english, it’s not my motherlanguage.🙂

    Like

  18. David permalink
    July 30, 2010 6:28 pm

    Helena, thanks for adding the video to the post, but you need to add the second one as well! You only added the first one. Thanks!

    Like

  19. Suzy permalink
    July 28, 2010 7:15 pm

    @ Louise

    Thank you for this great article. Of course, I agree. Neither Jordan or Gavin were trying to get away from their alleged “molester”, on the contrary. Jordan was defending him before his father and according to June’s testimony, wanted to spend all his time with him. And Gavin was going back to Neverland, wanting to sleep in Michael’s room even when Michael was not there. Here is Azja Pryor talking about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syQsYdrVuyQ

    That last part about Jordan living like a king just makes me angry. He lives a luxury life from Michael’s blood money. He also seems to like the money and the luxury life a lot. No wonder then that he doesn’t come forward and admit the lie that made it all possible for him.

    Like

  20. July 28, 2010 7:11 pm

    @ David

    P.S.

    I do own Unmasked. He does his good work on researching the two cases, but he really needs to leave Michael’s personal life out of the investigation.

    Like

  21. July 28, 2010 7:04 pm

    @David.

    Thanks! I guess you could say that the haters hard-hitting evidence of child molestation, is our Vindication method. In both of the accusers interview’s being that as it may and interview, or a testimony, they just didn’t sound emotional to me. In that official Hater’s website/Chandler rebutal, It does sound rehearsed. I was very nervous to read it at first, but it’s nothing but the truth! Even if the haters lies is considered our truth, It’s gonna help me for when next I come across another Michael Jackson detractor, I’ll no My homework.

    Like

  22. David permalink
    July 28, 2010 6:21 pm

    @ Denise

    Yes, I have read “All That Glitters”. Not only have I read it, I have CROSS-EXAMINED it! The Chandlers were too cowardly to testify in court, so this book is the second best thing. I treated the book as 100% true (even though I know it was full of lies). Basically, they use the book to convince readers that MJ molested Jordie, but then they have to explain and rationalize their decision to REFUSE to prosecute him. When you analyze their story, it’s full of holes and makes MJ look more innocent! For example, they claim that they were frustrated with how slowly the DA’s took to bring charges, and that they refused to testify because they got tired of waiting, and also they were refused police protection.

    But in Feb. 1994 Gil Garcetti went to the state legislature to ask them to IMMEDIATELY change the law and allow him to FORCE the Chandlers to testify, so that shows how desperate they were to prosecute. If the Chandlers needed protection, then the DA’s would have used the Secret Service to protect them! And the Chandlers don’t even realize how they contradict themselves, because earlier in the book they brag about firing Gloria Allred in Sept. 1993 for wanting to prosecute instead of sue!

    You should definitely read “All That Glitters”, “Be Careful Who You Love”, and “Unmasked” because they all offer evidence to exonerate MJ. Even though Ian Halperin wrote a lot of lies in his book, he did some good research in regards to the allegations, like interviewing a few people who spent time at Neverland as children, and posting the transcript of an episode of “Geraldo” in 1993 that included a family that befriended MJ and supported him.

    This blog entry thoroughly analyzes the book. Parts 1-3 are up, and more parts are coming soon! http://allforloveblog.com/?p=2928

    @ Helena
    In my comment from July 17th @ 8:26am, I uploaded a video of a REAL victim from the Oprah show. I think you should also include it in the post so that more people will see it, and it won’t get buried in the comments section, which is growing more and more each day!

    Like

  23. July 28, 2010 5:34 pm

    Guys, since the “True or Fake Testimony” is once again at the top of the list I am posting here an UPDATE offered by our Louise. She has made a sort of a language analysis of several testimonies and is drawing her conclusions. Please have a look – it is interesting and original.

    Louise, the few changes I’ve made was taking away verbs, adjectives and nouns and grouping all the vocabulary together – this way it seems to be more compact (I hope you don’t mind).

    For everyone’s conveniece I am posting Louise’s analysis in the comment section as well:

    “I will use some of the testimonies published in the article “How to tell a TRUE testimony from a Fake one” and will add some new ones and Jordan (Jordan’s talk to Dr. Gardner) and Gavin (at the court)’s testimony as well. All samples will be anonymous.

    After presenting 7 samples, I will study the language used in all of them and then we’ll see if we can draw some conclusions.

    Here are the 7 samples:

    1- … Every day and life in general [are] like a trial. I have been the victim of one of cousins who molested me … I know well how it feels when you are afraid of yourself, of the questions without any answer. I wonder often if my reactions to different feelings are caused by what he did to me. Would I act differently if this had not happened to me? The fear of being like him …

    2- From the age of 9 until 15, I have suffered my mother’s boyfriend who first molested me and then penetrated me. Now I am 41 and all my issues are there. I cannot have children of my own, I cannot have a normal sexual life (once a month it’s already too much). Having the courage to carry on it is good but to be able to live the life is better if someone knows how to do it.

    3- In phase one nothing happened… Let’s see, I think the next step was, I had an erection and he rubbed up against me and that was it… And he did, he did as well… We were on top of each other… Several things happened. One, he grabbed my butt; put his tongue in my ear… The next step, we went back home to LA and he continued doing the things I hadn’t stopped him from doing… we were alone and we took a bath together. That was the first time we ever saw each other naked… so he continued that for, like, a lot of the trip. And he kept on saying, ‘Tell me when you’re ready and I’ll do it for you.’ because up till then I had never masturbated or anything. And I had never, ever, indicated to him that I was ready, like, to be masturbated. And I guess that wasn’t according to his plans, and so, one time he just reached over and said, “Okay, just tell me how this feels.’ And he put his hand on my shorts and he said, ‘Now doesn’t that feel good.’ And he rubbed up and down. And I said ‘Yeah.’… I had a book to read for finals… Well, I managed to still get all As; I brought my book with me… he was masturbating me… I masturbated him…

    4- Do you remember November month? November is cold, rainy and sad. It’s all I remember about November. When it comes, I want to bury me in a corner until March. Do you remember November month? I do. I was on the third floor, going to you classroom. Do you remember the corridor? On the left, there were five or six cupboards. On the right, there were the stairs leading to the second floor. It was too narrow and dark. Suddenly, you showed up. You walked to my direction. Do you want to know what I saw with my young eyes? Do you want to know what my small body felt? Do you want to know what was in my head at that moment? I am offering it to you. You did not say hello to me. You did not look at me. But when you came close to me you grabbed me and you put your hand between my thighs, the thighs of a child. You put two of your fingers and forced them into me through my trousers. You wanted put them inside me, did not you? Inside a child was not it? You pushed and pushed until I was hurt yes it hurt me. You pulled you back and went away. I could not walk. I stopped walking. “He did not say sorry” … But at that time I was too depressed at school. … Every time you came close to me, I was so tense. When you put your hands on my shoulders, in my hair, I stopped breathing and talking. My heart beat fast. The victim’s trauma towards his or hers attacker. … After the end of school trip, my strange psychological suffering began ….

    5- We were laying on the bed and he told me – he told me that men have to masturbate – well, males have to masturbate or else they won’t be able to like – – like be normal, they’ll always be like unstable, because they have to … He told me if I knew how .. I said no … He told me that he wanted to teach me … So we were laying in the bed, and then he started rubbing me … He put his hand down my pants and he started rubbing me … He was masturbating me … Probably five minutes or something like that …

    6- … I pushed him off and ran away from him. I ran out of his room, down the stairs, out the rectory door and into the street. I was so scared that I didn’t look before I crossed the street and I was hit by a car… I never spoke to him again.

    7- … Sleeping during the night was difficult, often times I would wake up because his hands were touching me. My initial response to this experience was one of nausea and confusion. As the abuse continues over time, young vulnerable victims of priests wonder: “where can I go with this, who can I trust, I am so sad, I’m angry, I don’t know where to turn.

    § §

    Let’s look at the vocabulary used in every sample:

    1. every day and life is a trial, victim of molestation, how it feels, afraid of oneself, questions without answers, reactions caused by what he did to me, fear.

    2. suffered molestation, penetration, issues not solved, cannot have children, cannot have a normal sexual life, have the courage to carry on.

    3. phase one, progress, let’s see, the next step was, had an erection, rub against me, on top of each other, several things happened, grabbed my butt, put his tongue, the next step, continued, took a bath together, the first time we saw each other naked, had never masturbated up till then, put his hand, rubbed, I said “Yeah”, had a book to read for finals, managed to get all As, brought the book with me, he masturbated me, I masturbated him.

    4. remember November, cold, rainy and sad, all I remember, to bury me in the corner, go to the classroom, the corridor narrow and dark, suddenly showed up, in my direction, saw with my young eyes, my small body felt, in my head, did not look or say hello, came close, grabbed me, put your hand, between my thighs, the thighs of a child, forced your fingers through my trousers, pushed and pushed, was hurt, it hurt me, went away, could not walk, stopped walking, did not say sorry, too depressed at school, came close, was so tense, put your hand on my shoulder, stopped breathing, heart beat fast, the victim, trauma, attacker, strange, psychological suffering began.

    5. lay on the bed, men have to masturbate, like normal, like unstable, said know how, I said no, want to teach me, so, lay in the bed, masturbate probably five minutes, rub, put his hand, down my pants.

    6. pushed him off, ran away, ran out, down the stairs, out the door, so scared, didn’t look, hit by car, never spoke again

    7. sleeping difficult, wake up, touch me, nausea, confusion, abuse, vulnerable, victims, wonder, sad, angry, where to turn, where to go with this.

    Conclusion :

    Comparing these samples to each other, we note that the third and the fifth ones are different from the five others by lack of emotion. One would say robots are speaking in 3 and 5. The only verbs expressing an emotion are “not to like” and “not to want to do it” (if we talk of the whole of the text). There are very few adjectives in these two passages.

    The choice of the verbs is also important. In the first two extracts we read: “to be victim of somebody’s molestation”, “to suffer somebody’s molestation” while in the third and the fifth, we have “to masturbate somebody”.

    Compare this sentence “Sleeping during the night was difficult, often times I would wake up because his hands were touching me” with “He put his hand in my short / pants”. The first one makes us to shiver. We feel the suffering of the person; we feel almost these hands that touch. On the other hand, the second one resembles a youthful sexual activity tale.

    While samples 3 and 5 are almost neutrally expressed, the others are full of strong emotions: fear, rage, hate, despair… People speak using words like: vulnerable victims, the abuser, the abused…

    § §

    Jordan’s conversation with Dr. Gardner is here:
    http://michael-jackson-facts.yolasite.com/jordie.php.

    Gavin’s court testimony is here:
    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0215053accuser1.html.

    The first important thing to notice is that Gavin says almost the same as Jordan. Indeed, Jordan’s lies are the model that had been followed closely by the other accusers. After all, the father and the son helped by their lawyer, their psychiatrist and Sneddon succeed together to fill up their pockets with several million dollars. Consequently, they were the best example to follow. Therefore the Arvizo also engaged the same lawyer and the same shrink. Surely, they had lots of dreams about all the wonderful dollars that they could get from Michael. But this time, MJ had learnt his lesson.

    A true victim of sexual abuse rarely forgets the place of the crime as well as the dates. When reading the two kids’ lies, we notice that the places are apparently clear in their tales but the dates create issues. Jordan was mistaken several times and he was not always able to correct his mistakes. Gavin is even more ridiculous. Sneddon & Co decided to place the dates of the so-called abuse two weeks before the airing of Bashir’s treachery. But when they discovered that Michael Jackson had alibi for this period of time, they moved the dates to weeks after the airing of the film.

    In his talk with Dr. Gardner, Jordan has admitted that he loved Neverland and other places where he proclaimed that the sexual abuse took place. He wanted to follow Michael Jackson to his tour even after the accusations had been made. A true victim of sexual abuse flees his / her abuser and hates the places of the crime.

    A true testimony of sexual abuse is often precise. The terms are clear and the victims talk without hesitation. During his talk, Jordan has used 40 times the expression “I don’t know”. Gavin is even vaguer. He repeats himself several times and the expression “I don’t know” comes back constantly. The member of jury judged Gavin’s words and his appearances not like a true testimony of sexual abuse.

    Often the victim of sexual abuse suffers for the rest of his life. Some of the victims succeed to have a bearable life only after several years of therapy. At the end of his talk with Dr. Gardner, Jordan said that he had found himself a girlfriend. He also mentioned that he was good at school and could still get A’s though he was “molested”!

    During this session with Gardner, he even mentioned some of Michael’s learning about the meditation, the levitation and freedom from the gravitation. He is shown as quick on the uptake and a calculating young person not like many other teenagers. His life after the settlement is a proof of it because he became rich like a king, powerful and he had lots of fun in his life. In February 1997, People magazine wrote this:

    ” […] Jordy has amassed huge wealth. His most recent bank statements show he has pounds 3 million-worth of bonds and shares alone. And he enjoys dabbling on the stock market with the help of his financial guru Jeffrey Hahn, vice president of the Santa Monica Bank.
    He goes to a private school which he partly owns.
    Jordy instructed his financial aides to buy into the Crossroads School when he noticed how much his annual fees were.
    And after he bought himself a trendy Nissan Pathfinder vehicle and noticed how much money he was spending on petrol, he bought shares in Mobil, Chevron and Texaco. When he discovered the Internet on his computer he bought shares in Hewlett Packard Computers and telephone companies.
    He even bought part of his bank, the Bank of New York.
    Jordy has developed a taste for expensive clothes.
    When he plays roller hockey outside his home he dons Armani trousers.
    He surfs in Florida, scuba-dives in the Bahamas and skis in Taos and Vail, Colorado.
    […]”
    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-61114091.html

    Like

  24. July 28, 2010 1:12 pm

    Edit:

    I appreciate the research you (all) do.

    Like

  25. July 28, 2010 1:11 pm

    @David

    Did you ever read “All that glitter’s”. I’m still new, and I read somewhere that someone read the full book. I’m reading it right now. My mother bought it during the trial for $4.98(You can tell it wasn’t a best read because of the price) I was kinda angry to realized that she had bought that book, but i’ve since decided to let it go and read the book, and make my own conclusion.

    I appreciate all the research you do. I love this site. Very informative.

    Like

  26. Suzy permalink
    July 28, 2010 12:29 pm

    Yes, Helena that was what I was talking about: “next step”, “let’s see” – it’s as if he is recollecting a script that was put down for him step by step. And like I said totally emotionless. Also funny, how he goes lengths to praise his father and portray him as a great daddy – “he helped me study like last year” and things like that.
    I’m not saying it wasn’t true, but it also could be a sign that this script was made up by Evan (actually I’m sure it was).

    Like

  27. July 28, 2010 11:45 am

    “So from your research are you saying JC showed NO logical signs of abuse during the allege molestation period? Interesting. No falling behind in school, or mood swings?”

    Teva, this is what June Chandler said about Jordan going to school in her testimony:

    17 Q. Jordan never missed school while Michael

    18 Jackson was staying at your home, right?

    19 A. To the best of my recollection, no, he did

    20 not miss school.

    In an interview with psychiatrist Dr. Gardner, Jordan supposedly said about Euro-Disney where “masturbation” took place:

    “By the way, if this was before the summer, this is the school time. When you’re in all these other places, what’s going on with school?”
    “Well, I managed to still get all As; I brought my book with me.”

    ALSO:

    “Next step, okay. We went home, back to L.A. again. Let’s see, I remember, my dad, just as before, last year, was to help me study for finals, and so I was going to go to his house. And my dad and Michael, they had never met before, I don’t think. And so, I was going to go to my dad’s house and stay over there for, like, the weekend. And he was going to help me study. And that really saddened Michael that we would have to separate. So he stayed over there during that
    weekend.”

    ISN’T JORDAN IS AN EXCEPTIONALLY COMPOSED BOY WHO IS IN VERY GOOD COMMAND OF HIS EMOTIONS?

    Like

  28. Suzy permalink
    July 28, 2010 7:29 am

    David: If his mood changed, it’s only because he thought he was Michael Jackson Jr.!

    Yes.

    When June testified in 2005, I thought the point of that testimony from the prosecution was to show that Jordan’s behaviour changed and the relationship with Michael had a bad effect on him.

    When asked about it June told at the time Jordan wasn’t as sweet any more as he used to be, he became bossy and big-headed. And that he dressed like Michael.

    Obviously the prosecution were trying to make it look like as if these changes in Jordan’s behaviour were because he was molested but that doesn’t make much sense. Do victims become bossy and big-headed when being molested? I don’t think that’s the behaviour change that they were looking for…. We are talking about a 13-year-old boy. It’s pretty normal that around this time they stop being sweet and start being bossy and big-headed – with or without MJ in their lives. That’s a teenager for you! Yeah, the Michael friendship might have contributed to that: what teenager wouldn’t become big-headed if Michael Jackson befriended him? And dressing like Michael: so what? Millions of teenagers dressed like him, so why not his friend? Besides it’s in Ray’s book that Jordan was a long-time fan and he used to dress like him since he was little…. So it didn’t just start when MJ came into their life.

    Jordan never exhibited the sings of molestation victims. Even in his interviews with the police he seems emotionally detached, composed, not upset at all, just as if he is telling a story and not something bad that has happened to him.

    @ Teva

    I agree with you. A 13-year-old kid knows what sex is and if he is straight he would be stressed out by being forced to a homosexual relationship. You know, the funny thing is, they keep telling us what an intelligent teenager Jordan was. And he was! You can tell it from the choices of words in his interviews (unless every single word was put into his mouth by his father – and I don’t exclude that possibility) – often it’s like a grown man talking. So from one side they are telling us he was highly intelligent but then want us to believe that such an intelligent and clever boy could have been forced to do what they are telling us Michael forced him to do? With lame tricks like “if you don’t do it I will love Tommy more”? Oh c’mon! That’s a mind-trick predators can use on 6-8-year-olds, not on a clever 13-year-old! It’s also almost as if Jordan didn’t realize that the alleged sexual relationship was wrong until his father interfered. Again: as a clever, straight 13-year-old boy wouldn’t you realize it was wrong? Wouldn’t it stress you out?

    @ Dave

    I’m someone who – from a gut feeling – is more with Geraldine Hughes on the Sodium Amytal (ie. it wasn’t the reason why Jordan “confessed”).This is what I wrote yesterday in a comment on Allforlove blog, I just copy and paste it here, because I don’t want to type it down again but this is what I think:

    I tend to be more with Geraldine Hughes on this who said she thinks Jordan was trained by Barry Rothman and he willingly went along with the plan. Why? Exactly because of Jordan’s behavior: the fact he was so emotionless and detached during his interviews. Someone with false memories would be upset too, IMO, because he would think it happened. Also the fact he said during his interrogation the only thing he was afraid of was cross-examination… And according to Thomas Mesereau he had witnesses to prove that Jordan told them it never happened. Anthony Pellicano was also quoted saying Jordan told him his father only wanted money. To me that all points to Geraldine Hughes’s version more than to the Sodium Amytal. Geraldine thinks the claim about Jordan confessing under the influence is a fabrication by the Chandlers to make it look like it was spontaneous how Jordan came out with it. According to her it wasn’t and he was trained weeks before that.

    Now, of course, whether with planted false memories or willingly, Jordan was still very young and although not a small child, but he could still be manipulated by his father – and was. So because of that, like you, I could still “forgive him” (although it’s not my place to forgive him or not, but Michael’s) if he came forward and said: “nothing ever happened, I was a kid, I was manipulated, I was stupid, I’m very sorry”. He’s a grown man and his father is dead now and he still hasn’t done a thing. That is inexcusable to me. Maybe he thinks Michael is dead, so it wouldn’t matter any more, but it would! It would to his children, to his family and to his memory. It would mean a lot, as justice always means a lot.

    The thing that makes us wonder is how did Jordan go from being such good friend of Michael to betraying him. How could Evan get him do that? I think there are plenty of ways. There is something in All that Glitters that MAYBE gives us a little clue. Ray writes that one day Evan lied to Jordan to get a confession out of him. He told him if he confesses that will save Michael, but if he keeps denying THEN he will get Michael in trouble! According to Ray Jordan still kept denying but I’m wondering about this scene. Can it be that initially Jordan started to “confess” and go along with the plan because he thought that’s how he can save Michael and get Evan off his back? And by the time he realized it’s “confessing” that gets Michael in trouble it was too late to turn back, because then it would have been Evan in big trouble and in danger of going to jail because of falsely accusing Michael? At the end of the day blood is thicker than water and Jordan surely didn’t want his father to be convicted of false accusations.
    It’s just one theory, speculation, of course. But I think it’s possible.

    —-

    BTW, while I have doubts if Jordan really had false memories, I think Jason Francia possibly may have them. As this part of the film that once David showed us: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA8p1k3UVyk&feature=player_embedded tells us, you don’t necessarily need Sodium Amytal to have false memories planted – it’s enough if you go to a manipulative therapist. And as Francia told us he got years of therapy. In his police interview at first he denied molestation then he was manipulated into saying he was molested. He seems to be pretty weak minded and easily manipulated. And IMO, in that “therapy” he was manipulated into thinking MJ tickling him was something sexual.

    Like

  29. David permalink
    July 28, 2010 4:01 am

    @ Teva

    Here is the excerpt from Diane Dimond’s book (page 60) that is very crucial in getting to the root of Evan’s method of getting Jordie to make the accusations against MJ. If you’ve ever wondered how Evan was able to coerce Jordie to lie, here is what Evan told Jordie after he came out of sedation (according to Evan’s diary). Here is the excerpt, in parenthesis:

    (When Jordie came out of the sedation I asked him to tell me about Michael and him. I (falsely told) him that I had bugged his bedroom and I knew everything anyway and that I just wanted to hear it from him. I told him not to be embarrassed….”I know about the kissing and the jerking off and the blow jobs.” This isn’t about me finding anything out. It’s about lying – If you lie then I’m going to take him (Jackson) down.)

    Now, according to Evan’s diary, Jordie contemplated how to answer the question for about an hour, and then Evan tried again. Here is the rest of the excerpt, in parenthesis:

    (“I’m going to make it very easy for you. I’m going to ask you one question. All you have to do is say yes or no”.

    Jordie spoke his first words, “Promise?”

    I said, “Jordie, did I ever lie to you in your whole life?”

    He said, “No.”

    I said, “Well, I never will.”

    He said, “You won’t hurt Michael, right?”

    I said, “I promise.”

    He said, “I don’t want anyone else ever to know. Promise me you won’t ever tell anyone.”

    “I promise,” I said.

    So he said, “What’s the question?”

    I asked, “Did Michael Jackson ever touch your penis?”

    Unbelievably, he still hesitated. The longest couple of seconds of my life went be and then finally he answered in an almost inaudible whisper, “Yes.”)

    Ray Chandler also stated the same thing in his book. As for why he had to lie, and didn’t truly bug the room, it’s because he KNEW that Jordie wasn’t being molested, and was trying to extort him. If you even SUSPECTED that your son was being molested, would you allow him to continue to hang out with the perpetrator? He kept INVITING MJ over to his house, and in fact he asked MJ to build a new addition to his home so he could spend more time there.

    That night when Evan claims to have walked into the bedroom and see MJ and Jordie spooning, MJ was knocked out from the 60mg of Toradol that he was allegedly given by Evan and Dr. Torbiner. Evan went into the bedroom TWICE, but it wasn’t until the THIRD TIME that he saw them spooning. If MJ was knocked out, then that would mean that Jordie was the one who crawled in the bed with MJ, if that scene even took place at all!

    There is so many lies in the book that it’s hard to seperate fact from fiction, but since they refused to be cross examined in court, us MJ fans have to cross examine their book, “All That Glitters”. Dimond’s book ‘Be Careful Who You Love” also does a lot to prove MJ is innocent, if you know how to research it.

    Like

  30. July 28, 2010 3:32 am

    I am not buying the story that EC told JC the room was bugged and that got him to confess. Evan set it up in the first place that MJ would share a room with Jordan. Why not just bug it for real?

    Like

  31. David permalink
    July 28, 2010 3:08 am

    @ Teva

    No, he didn’t show any signs! If his mood changed, it’s only because he thought he was Michael Jackson Jr.!

    The reason he emancipated himself, according to Tom Mesereau, is because he was upset with his parents for making him lie. June never regained custody because as soon as the court ordered Jordie back to June in August 1993, Evan had his shrink notify authorities, and was able to keep Jordie. He deliberately DID NOT notify the court that he thought Jordie was being molested, because that would have triggered the authorities. That court ruling came out of nowhere, so Evan chose the lesser of two evils and told the shrink instead of either telling the courts or fleeing the city to keep Jordie.

    Perhaps Jordie told the lie to protect his dad, who he never thought would tell anyone, and wouldn’t have if the courts didn’t intervene. Maybe after the scandal exploded, he hoped that he would get caught in his lie by the cops, and they would refuse to prosecute, but obviously Sneddon wanted to take MJ down for his own personal gain. So after the settlement, they never testified because they didn’t want to and never intended. In fact, LA District Attorney Gil Garcetti tried to have California change it’s law IMMEDIATELY so that he could FORCE the Chandlers to testify, but he was unsuccessful.

    So after the settlement is paid, and the criminal investigation ended, Jordie realized the finality of what he did and blamed his parents, who both sued each other after the settlement. He moved in with his grandmother until he was 18, and then went to college in NY. Maybe by now he has reestablished contact with June?

    I don’t know, but that’s my theory!

    Like

  32. July 28, 2010 3:06 am

    “Evan never expected to notify authorities until the courts ordered him to return Jordan to June, and that’s when he RELUCTANTLY called Dr. Abrams and had him notify the cops.”

    Of course not, this case was never intended by Evan, or Jordan for the law courts. Be it civil or criminal, they both seem to want to avoid that, for whatever reason.

    I also think Rothman was ultimately the person behind Dimond getting her hands on the DFCS report. I think he made a call to someone. It was all to put pressure on MJ to settle.

    Like

  33. July 28, 2010 2:55 am

    @David

    So from your research are you saying JC showed NO logical signs of abuse during the allege molestation period? Interesting. No falling behind in school, or mood swings?

    Okay then what happened between him and June. In the Gardener convo he said he did not blame his mother for what happen. How does he go from that to not speaking to her for 11 years?

    Like

  34. David permalink
    July 28, 2010 2:38 am

    @ Teva

    Jordan didn’t exhibit any signs of abuse because he wasn’t abused! If he was really being abused, then SOMEBODY would have at least seen something to make them suspicious. Jordan denied to Pellicano that he was being abused, and that’s why Pellicano continued to defend MJ. If he believed MJ had truly molested him, then he would have turned him in himself. (He admitted that.)

    There is still some debate as to whether Jordan was given Sodium Amytal by Evan & Dr. Torbiner. If he wasn’t, then maybe they both lied and said it was given in order to make Jordan’s testimony inadmissible in court. Harvey Levin from TMZ was a reporter in the 1990’s, and according to both Mary Fischer and Ray Chandler, he broke the story about sodium amytal (although we don’t know if he interviewed Evan, or if someone else told him.) Fischer interviewed Dr. Torbiner, and he certainly didn’t deny that it was used. So Dr. Torbiner confirms that he was there while Jordan’s tooth was being pulled, and a drug was used for “dental purposes”.

    According to both Ray Chandler’s and Diane Dimond’s book, Evan LIED to Jordan and told him that his room was bugged and that he already knew of the “molestation”, and if Jordan admitted it he wouldn’t tell anyone. But if he denied it, he would destroy MJ. So he used reverse psychology to get Jordan to admit to something that didn’t happen, hoping that he was helping MJ.

    Evan never expected to notify authorities until the courts ordered him to return Jordan to June, and that’s when he RELUCTANTLY called Dr. Abrams and had him notify the cops. In all likelihood, if sodium amytal wasn’t used, then Jordan lied to the cops and said he was molested in order to protect his dad from being arrested, and I’m sure Evan emphasized this to him. Blood is thicker than water!

    Because he spent so much time alone with MJ, and with Sneddon’s perception of MJ as being “weird and eccentric”, it was very believable that MJ was guilty. Jordan’s lies were “specious”, which means “Having the ring of truth or plausibility but actually fallacious”. If you compare Jordan’s story to Daniel Kapon’s, you’ll see that Kapon’s story is complete BS from beginning to end, but there is SOME truthfulness to Jordan’s story (i.e. he really did hang out with MJ, travel with him, sleep in the same room multiple times, etc.)

    I’m sure nobody expected the scandal to be as big as it was, and they definitely never intended on prosecuting MJ. After the scandal, Jordan probably realized what he had done and was truly upset by his parents, and that’s why he legally emancipated himself sometime in 1994 (which was confirmed by his mom in 2005). He probably had limited, if any, contact with Evan, even though they both lived in the New York/New Jersey area. As Evan’s health declined and his money ran low, Jordan started giving him an allowance and may have moved in with him temporarily UNTIL August 2005 when Evan tried to MURDER HIM! After that, Jordan got a PERMANENT restraining order and never saw him again. (He, nor anybody else, went to Evan’s wake and funeral!)

    That’s my 2 cents. I could be wrong, though, but that seems like the most rational explanation to the 1993 scandal. Any thoughts on this, guys?

    Like

  35. July 28, 2010 1:11 am

    Disclaimer. I have no idea about what it feels like to be a victim of child abuse. However, it seems illogical to me that Jordan’s allege abuse would go un-notice by someone. Since this is a site that is unafraid and “boldly go where no site has gone before” there are a few things that bother me.

    Did Jordan Chandler’s teachers or friends notice a change in his personality during the 3 month period the abuse was said to have occurred? Children often act out, they draw, grades drop, bed wetting etc.

    1. From all accounts JC was a normal fun loving 13 yr old kid. If he were having an affair with a rock star that is not normal. I know Jordan said MJ was normal once you got to know him, but a 21 year age gap is not.
    2. JC was straight. Most children by the time they are 12 & 13 have a sexual identity. A homosexual relationship would cause a straight child stress.
    3. By the time a child is 5 they know the difference between right and wrong, and by the time they are 13 they are pretty much set in their ways. I don’t see how this type of relationship could have continued for 3 months on a NORMAL child, and not manifest itself negatively in some way. Some school teacher would have had to notice the difference.
    4. There is also the icky factor.

    By someone I don’t mean Evan because he had an agenda. I mean someone with no motive. I know Evan said Jordan was depressed AFTER he [Evan] ended the allege relationship. I am really interested in what JC’s state of mind was like DURING the allege molestation. I know each child will react differently to an event, but the key is “different” his behaviour must have changed I don’t see any way around it.

    Like

  36. Paulie permalink
    July 18, 2010 3:36 am

    @SB…yes the famous Sybil case of multiple personalities was the result of severe sexual and emotional abuse. Other victims have described letting their minds separate from their bodies, reacting as though they were someone else that those things were happening to, feeling as though they were floating on the ceiling or standing in a corner passively observing someone else. I’ve read many books about molestation and incest and invariably there is a great deal of either suppressed emotions, emotions, or acting out. If you want to see something really chilling there is a documentary out there about a pedo priest who is now back in Ireland. Every single one of the people and the parents interviewed are terribly emotional with very strong feelings of betrayal of their trust – even years later – none of them were recovered – unlike the family of accusers against Michael.

    Like

  37. Paulie permalink
    July 18, 2010 3:29 am

    I saw the Gavin police interview…also another surprising lack of emotion. It looked completely fake and I felt no emotion for him as a “victim” as I normally would. What is so glaring to me was my complete lack of belief that Michael ever molested anyone from the very first time I heard it, unlike my usual reaction when I hear such stories (no OMG gasp, no running to the TV set to breathlessly hear what Michael had “done” to some innocent children – my reaction was more, what has the media made up now about Michael – I kind of regret that as obviously they were gunning for him and it was a painful time for him).

    The other unusual aspects was that these accusations were always accompanied with demands for money and none of the parents reacted the way other parents have when they believed their child to have been molested. No one dialed 911. No dads sought to kick Michael Jackson’s a$$, but apparently they “believed” he molested their kids. The cops were never called in and no one sought to have him punished.

    Back to Gavin he aspired to be an actor, but his “acting” wasn’t very good. I can’t recall but I don’t think he was able to drum up one tear.

    I want to say though there are some kids who completely shut down inside. I remember one documentary that I watched…two sisters…one was completely cold and hard, described the abuse in very cynical, I’m never going to let anyone inside to hurt me ever again manner and the other sister was a weeping mess. The bottom-line is they were reactions, nearly opposite but very recognizable as reactions to real abuse having happened. I felt worse for the cold sister as she was never going to ever let anyone close to her or trust anyone ever again.

    Like

  38. lynande51 permalink
    July 17, 2010 1:46 pm

    In the report from Dr. G and in his declaration it looks like an outline to a story.

    Like

  39. lynande51 permalink
    July 17, 2010 1:37 pm

    That is a true reaction. YOu will also notice that he remembers every detail. I don’t care what the so called experts say about Jordan Chandlers declaration ,that is not detailed . Now people can see what I mean. You can see too how he says three times and he didn’t want anything to do with him and went after the guy himself. And his Mom, that is what a parent does. Do you think that if Todd’s Mom had seen him in bed touching her son on th eoutside of th ecovers she would have quietly closed the door and consulted a lawyer first?

    Like

  40. David permalink
    July 17, 2010 8:26 am

    Helena, here is a video of actor Todd Bridges, who was a child star in the 80’s from the sitcom “Diff’rent Strokes” (along with the late, great Gary Coleman). In this clip, he talks with Oprah about the child molestation he suffered at the hands of an adult male.

    In the first video, he begins to discuss this at the 3:30 mark. Look at his reaction when he finishes reading the excerpt from his book that describes the molestation! Notice the EMOTIONS that he has! He can barely compose himself! Now read Jordie Chandler’s Oct. 1993 interview with Dr. Gardner, and notice the complete LACK OF EMOTION! Did Jordie ever stop to cry? No!!!

    Next, here’s where it gets interesting! Notice the reaction that Todd Bridges’ mother had when he told her that he had been molested, and she tried to get the molester to leave her home and he wouldn’t!

    And then at 2:04, NOTICE WHAT TODD BRIDGES SAYS HE’LL DO TO ANYONE WHO MOLESTS HIS CHILDREN!! I had to write that in all caps in order to emphasize my point!

    Now, compare the reactions of Todd Bridges and his mom to the actions of Evan Chandler when found out that Jordie had been “molested” by MJ!! Tell me whose story is more credible! LOL! I think you should add these videos to your post above or use them in future posts.

    Like

  41. Suzy permalink
    May 25, 2010 8:25 pm

    Interesting that the thing Jordie was afraid of was cross-examination……

    Like

  42. April 1, 2010 8:38 am

    SB, as regards the rehearsed statements of the accusers:

    There is so much factual material open to the public now that nothing can be easier than rehearsing oneself for a wrongful accusation. The media informs you of the full arsenal of abuse methods from standard phrases like “Do you trust me?” up to the actual technique of molestation.

    I wish I hadn’t read it – because it is horrible for one thing – and also because it shows how easy it is to accuse an innocent man and how difficult it is to see the truth once the person has been slandered.

    This is what slander is all about – it is an all-win situation for the one who is doing it as some of the lie will rubs off ANYWAY in the form of a lingering suspicion. And this is what makes the job really difficult.

    I am happy to see you’re doing your share of vindication!

    Like

  43. March 31, 2010 12:48 am

    You are totally right in your observation. I’ve read of cases where the abused mind has actually split, creating a new personality who takes the pain, while the rest of the mind remains the same person. The new “person” doesn’t appear again until needed ot take abuse. emotion is definitely connected with abuse-either phtsical or mental.
    Jordie would have shown emotion. The other accuser also gave a rehearsed type of statement in court, according to transcripts from the trial.

    Like

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