Evan Chandler was a PSYCHIATRIC CASE
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The comment from Lex who mentioned that Evan Chandler had a BIPOLAR DISORDER is putting everything in its place now.
This psychiatric disorder which swings the man between two poles – the exalted mania and extreme depression which may (and did) result in a suicide in Evan’s case – explains his delusions about Michael Jackson, his fixed idea about the man’s alleged guilt and his mania to harass him even after the settlement agreement.
It explains why despite all his concern for Jordan’s well-being the father was relentless in telling degrading stories about his son through various books sold under other people’s names and why he made an attempt on Jordan’s life which estranged from each other forever. It explains innumerable other things each of which struck me as slightly inadequate when taken separately – but when brought together under the name of Bipolar disorder form a complete picture of a distorted and ill mind now proven by the psychiatric diagnosis.
How do we know that Evan Chandler did have this disorder?
The most surprising thing about it is that it was Diane Dimond who disclosed Evan Chandler’s secret in the Weekly Trust article. Though it is mentioned there somewhat in passing, now she can claim that she did report the truth and it is all our fault that we didn’t notice it! Here is the article:
FATHER OF MICHAEL JACKSON ACCUSER ENDED HIS LIFE ALONE, IN PAIN
Written by Luchina Fisher
21 November 2009The suicide of the father of one of Michael Jackson’s alleged molestation victims was not related to Jackson’s recent death but most likely stemmed from his longtime debilitating illness, according to sources close to the family. Evan Chandler, 65, died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to his head, according to Jersey City, N.J., police who found him in his luxury waterfront apartment on Nov. 5.
A onetime Beverly Hills dentist, Chandler was the father of Jordie Chandler, now 29, who was paid a reported $20 million ($15,3 to be exact) by Jackson to stop speaking about his claims that he was abused during sleepovers with the King of Pop in 1992, when Jordie was 12. His parents reportedly received $1.5 million each as part of the settlement, according to Diane Dimond, author of “Be Careful Who You Love: Inside the Michael Jackson Case.” Dimond told ABCNews.com that Chandler was suffering from a rare metabolic disorder called Gaucher disease, a hereditary condition most prevalent in the Ashkenazi Jewish population.
The disease causes a slow, painful deterioration and if left untreated can be excruciating. Dimond said Chandler, who was also bipolar, did not take care of his condition. Moreover, Chandler was estranged from Jordie, his two ex-wives, his children from his second marriage, and his two brothers. “He had pushed everybody away,” Dimond said. “He was very sick. He needed crutches to get around. He couldn’t earn money on his own. He had spent all his money. All he had was a monthly stipend from the son (Jordie) who wouldn’t talk to him.”
Dimond said the cop who responded to Chandler’s apartment found medication and medical paraphernalia all over the room, indicating that Chandler was a “very ill man in a lot of pain.” Chandler’s troubles began years earlier, even before Jordie met Jackson, according to Victor Gutierrez, author of “Michael Jackson Was My Lover: The Secret Diary of Jordan Chandler.”
“This family did not fall apart right after the settlement,” Gutierrez told ABCnews.com. “This family was dysfunctional way before.”
Source:
Though I do not believe a single word said by Diane Dimond and especially Victor Gutierrez who is a nightmare of a liar, I am sure that their present revelations about Evan Chandler’s life and painful illnesses are genuine enough as both authors have dedicated their lives to defaming Michael’s name and cannot be suspected of any pro-Jackson (or anti-Chandler) sentiment.
If Diane Dimond says Evan Chandler had a bipolar disorder, it means that he did have it and probably in its gravest form too, or he probably suffered from some more cruel mental illness for that matter.
If Victor Gutierrez says that the Chandler family was dysfunctional way before the settlement, it means it had already fallen apart before Michael Jackson had the ill fate to enter their lives and that everything Evan Chandler said about Michael breaking up his family was just one of his innumerable delusions…
Many of us have been impressed by Evan Chandler’s genuine emotions recorded in his taped conversation with David Schwartz and have somewhat illogically taken these emotions for reasons to suspect Michael of some wrongdoing. Well, if someone is raging about someone else it does not necessarily mean that the other person is at fault – even genuine emotions and suspicions may be totally wrong (as is the case of those husbands who deny their wives all freedom because of their incessant jealousy).
But if we have to do with the emotions of a man whose mind is hampered by a psychiatric illness, GOD SAVE US from our life path being crossed by a man like that… It becomes clear now why Evan Chandler divorced both of his wives and was estranged from all his children, including those by his second marriage… and why he complained to David in that tape that he had been cheated by every single girl he had gone out with, from the first to the last one… and why he said that if he didn’t have a chance to talk with his then wife Natalie about his fears (that she was coming home late) he would probably shoot her or divorce her … and that if he were married to Mother Teresa he’d have the same feelings… and why he accused Michael of wanting Evan ‘out of the way to such an extent that he wouldn’t take his phone calls’ and why he said “Just because I am paranoid, it doesn’t mean somebody isn’t”…
Goodness gracious! And it was this man that Michael was supposed to sit down to talk to and answer his phone call each time Evan Chandler demanded it?
Here is what Randy Taraborralli wrote about some of his experiences with Evan Chandler (text provided by Lex, thank you!):
- “I met him several times in the 1990s. I had lots of secret meetings with Evan Chandler, trying to get to the bottom of what was going on. I was pretty young, sort of green and wish I had my present level of expertise to be able to have applied back then. I have stories about that guy that I have never even published. He was about as inconsistent as they come. He was so determined to get me on his side, I thought he was just a tad scary. If you read my book you sort of get how I felt — feel — about him. When it came out, he called me screaming at me for not just buying his story 100%.
- He actually threatened me, and I thought… okay, pal, now I know who you really are. I wish it had all been handed differently. To be honest, I wish MJ had never settled, and I told Michael that several times. But… he felt he had to save his life, and I understood that, too. He really was in bad shape. However, I wish it had gone to trial so we could have had real evidence presented in a court of law – like the Arvizo nonsense — and then really been able to sort through it and come to some real decisions. It all seems so useless now, though, doesn’t it? And such a shame.”
Here is another glimpse of how Evan Chandler lived his life after the settlement with Michael Jackson:
JACKO MOLEST-RAP DAD KILLS HIMSELF
By Tim Perone, Linda Stasi and David K. LI
Posted: November 18, 2009
A tormented New Jersey dad, who spent nearly two decades grappling with his son’s sensational molestation claims against Michael Jackson, finally ended his pain with a gunshot to the head, authorities said yesterday.
The body of Evan Chandler, 65, the father of Jordan “Jordy” Chandler, was found in his luxury Jersey City apartment on Nov. 5 — still holding his .38-caliber revolver as he lay in bed, officials said yesterday.
There were five different prescription drugs in the home. No suicide note was found.
Chandler died a broken man, gravely ill and estranged from his entire family, loved ones said, living out his days in sad isolation 17 years after Jackson first infected his world.
Once a stunningly handsome and prominent Beverly Hills dentist, Chandler saw his life turned upside down by his son’s claims — enduring the collapse of his practice and physical assaults, and driven to disguise himself with repeated plastic surgeries to avoid abuse from rabid Jacko fans.
Jackson was never charged with a crime, paying Jordan a staggering $20 million to end the probe into allegations he had molested the boy at Neverland Ranch and various other LA locations.
The accusations initially tore Jordan, now 29, apart from his mom, June Chandler, who was blamed for getting him mixed up with Jackson.
But in recent years, that changed, with Jordan reconnecting with his mother at the same time he cut off ties with his father, family sources said.
Jordan claimed his dad attacked him with a dumbbell and got a restraining order against him in fall 2006. They never spoke to each other again.
“Over the years, [Evan] began to develop tremendous mood swings. He was always depressed,” a family member said.
“He stopped coming to family events because he was afraid of being recognized, like anyone in the family would care. That eventually turned into permanent estrangement from his family.”
Chandler’s son was 12 when he first met the King of Pop in 1992, after Jackson’s car broke down near the Los Angeles rental-car agency owned by the boy’s stepfather. His parents had long been divorced.
From the outset, Chandler was suspicious of MJ’s relationship with his son, who often stayed in the boy’s bedroom during creepy sleepovers.
Then a Beverly Hills dentist, Chandler put Jordan under anesthesia to remove a tooth — and that’s when Jordan first admitted Jackson had touched him inappropriately.
The youngster later repeated those claims to a psychologist, launching the massive probe in LA and Santa Barbara.
Chandler and his son remained tight for years after the settlement, and lived together as recently as 2006 in New Jersey before becoming estranged.
As much as Chandler loathed Jackson, the dad ended up going down the same freaky plastic-surgery path as Jackson, his family said.
Over the years, Chandler subjected himself to a series of cosmetic procedures, satisfying his own vanity and paranoia that Jackson’s fans were coming after him, family sources said.
Years of nips and tucks rendered Chandler virtually unrecognizable from the way he looked in the ’90s.
Chandler regularly self-administered Botox and cosmetic facial fillers.
“He was a handsomer version of Rob Lowe, that’s how drop-dead handsome he was,” a loved one said. “Since he was such a handsome guy, as he got older, he became more obsessive-compulsive about his looks.”
Former Santa Barbara County Sheriff Jim Thomas, who was in office when Jackson was investigated for touching Jordan, said he never held it against the family for taking the money.
Thomas said he feels bad for everyone in Chandler’s family.
“I don’t know that anybody came out of this in a better way,” he said.
Family members said Chandler owned at least one gun — and feared the weapon he used to kill himself was the firearm he purchased after being beaten up in a Southern California parking garage in the 1990s.
The family always suspected Jackson fans were responsible for the beatdown.
More recently, Chandler was a patient at the Colanta Hematology & Oncology Center in Bayonne, NJ.
The day he was found dead, Chandler had missed an appointment there, prompting doctors to call his apartment at Liberty Towers.
A concierge let himself into Chandler’s unit and found his body in the master bedroom, police said.
Chandler was suffering from a serious illness and had at least five different prescription medications in his home, sources said.
Doctors and cops declined to elaborate on Chandler’s ailment”.
Source: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/jacko_molest_rap_dad_kills_himself_k24b38q48hPRG58vjEK0dM
Sure they did – otherwise they would have had to admit that Evan Chandler was a PSYCHIATRIC CASE. To give you some idea of what Bipolar Disorder is all about here is the opinion of a medical professional who happens to be one of Michael’s supporters:
Lynande:
- “I still work 2 days a week in a psychiatric ward. I think he had what is called Schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder. In the tapes with Dave Schwartz you can hear it if you listen closely. Several times in the tape he even admits that he is wasted. That is a very common feeling for a person with this disorder. By wasted they mean that their thoughts are not connecting anymore, nothing is making sense to him anymore.
- He wasn’t sleeping and he said that his second wife was urging him to do this because she could not deal with him anymore. I think he had a positive symptom of delusions. Some of these are called fixed delusions which means that no matter what their particular delusion is he believes it no medication can get rid of it. He had convinced himself that Michael had molested his son and once he got the letter from the psychiatrist it was all the confirmation he needed.
- People were afraid of him, violence is very common, Dave Schwartz was – that was why he taped him. They even got in a fight in Barry Rothman’s office and one other time he hit him until he lost consciousness. He was continuing to sue every one involved. The accusations that angry Michael Jackon fans beat him in front of his house, the dead rat on their front door. Michael’s fans aren’t always darlings but he demonized them more than they are capable of.
- He tried to kill the very son that he had been so concerned about. Those are indicators of his paranoia. The fact that he alienated his entire family is very common with this mental illness because they are afraid of them and just can’t deal with them. When ever his ” brother” related the story it was filled with uneccesary details related to him not Jordan. This is called circumstantiality excessive and irrelevent detail in description with the person eventually making their point. When he killed himself it was not guilt it was his mental illness”.
Yes, all those unnecessary details about Evan here, Evan there seem to be betraying the real author standing behind those horrifying books written under the names of Ray Chandler or Victor Gutierrez which are filled with imaginary ‘evidence’ against Michael and delusional pictures of Jordan’s molestation….
So Diane Dimond said that Evan Chandler was suffering from BIPOLAR disease. We’ve also now heard another opinion that it could be SCHIZOAFFECTIVE Bipolar disorder. Let us have a look at what the internet says about these borderline cases:
BIPOLAR DISORDER
Bipolar or manic–depressive disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a category of mood disorders.
These moods are clinically referred to as mania. Individuals who experience manic episodes also commonly experience depressive episodes. These episodes are usually separated by periods of “normal” mood, but in some individuals, depression and mania may rapidly alternate, known as rapid cycling.
Extreme manic episodes can sometimes lead to psychotic symptoms such as delusions and hallucinations. In serious cases in which there is a risk of harm to oneself or others involuntary commitment may be used; these cases generally involve severe manic episodes with dangerous behavior or depressive episodes with suicidal ideation.
People with bipolar disorder exhibiting psychotic symptoms can sometimes be misdiagnosed as having schizophrenia, another serious mental illness.
Diagnosing bipolar disorder is often difficult, even for mental health professionals.
Often bipolar is inconsistent among patients because some people feel depressed more often than not and experience little mania whereas others experience predominantly manic symptoms.
Their behavior may become aggressive, intolerant or intrusive. People may feel out of control or unstoppable. People may feel they have been “chosen,” are “on a special mission,” or other grandiose or delusional ideas.
Sexual drive may increase. At more extreme phases of bipolar, a person in a manic state can begin to experience psychosis, or a break with reality, where thinking is affected along with mood. Many people in a manic state experience severe anxiety and are very irritable (to the point of rage), while others are euphoric and grandiose.
Bipolar disorder has been associated with people involved in the arts but it is an ongoing question as to whether many creative geniuses had bipolar disorder. Some studies have found a significant association between bipolar disorder and creativity, although it is unclear whether both conditions are caused by a third unknown factor; temperament has been hypothesized to be one such factor.
There are several other mental disorders which may involve similar symptoms to bipolar disorder. These include schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, drug intoxication, brief drug-induced psychosis, schizophreniform disorder and borderline personality disorder. Both borderline personality and bipolar disorder can involve what are referred to as “mood swings”.
Bipolar disorder can cause suicidal ideation that leads to suicidal , especially during mixed states such as dysphoric mania and agitated depression. Persons suffering from Bipolar have high rates of suicide compared to persons suffering from other mental health conditions…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder
SCHIZOAFFECTIVE DISORDER
Some psychiatric disorders are very difficult to diagnose accurately. One of the most confusing conditions is schizoaffective disorder.
This relatively rare disorder is defined as “the presence of psychotic symptoms in the absence of mood changes for at least two weeks in a patient who has a mood disorder.” The diagnosis is used when an individual does not fit diagnostic standards for either schizophrenia or “affective” (mood) disorders such as depression and bipolar disorder (manic depression).
Some people may have symptoms of both a depressive disorder and schizophrenia at the same time, or they may have symptoms of schizophrenia without mood symptoms.
Many individuals with schizoaffective disorder are originally diagnosed with manic depression. If the person experiences delusions or hallucinations that go away in less than two weeks when the mood is “normal,” bipolar disorder may be the proper diagnosis. Someone who experiences psychosis for three or four weeks while in a manic phase does not have schizoaffective disorder.
However, if delusions or hallucinations continue after the mood has stabilized and are accompanied by other symptoms of schizophrenia such as catatonia, paranoia, bizarre behavior, or thought disorders, a diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder may be appropriate. Accurate diagnosis is easier once the acute psychotic episode is under control.
Because schizoaffective disorder is so complicated, misdiagnosis is common. Some people may be misdiagnosed as having schizophrenia. Others may be misdiagnosed as having bipolar disorder. And those diagnosed as having schizoaffective disorder may actually have schizophrenia with prominent mood symptoms. Or they may have a mood disorder with symptoms similar to those of schizophrenia.
Whatever Evan Chandler had – Bipolar disorder, Schizoaffective disorder or Schizophrenia, it does not change the plain fact that he was mentally ill and gravely mentally ill at that.
Diane Dimond knows it, the police know it, Tom Sneddon most probably knows it, and none of them ever disclosed it.
Because if they did they would have to admit that all Evan Chandler’s accusations were the delusions of a near-schizophrenic.
THIS IS PROBABLY WHY HE NEVER APPEARED IN COURT.
You know, I really feel sorry for Evan Chandler…
—————
Vindicating Michael 
I wish people who still believe in Michael’s guilt would make the effort to thoughly know Victor Guitirrez background from his childhood on and also read what the Chlilean journalist Marcelo Morales Navarro had to say about him.It all started big with Guitirrez book MJWML for which Michael took him to court and won 2.7 million dollars +Victors expulsion from US.
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Evan should get together with Janet Arvizo, lmao. Speaking of… It seems odd that Larry Feldman dismissed Janet as a “whacko only in it for the money” yet willingly went along with Evan ten years prior. Does that mean Evan was even more clever and masterminded than Janet?
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Ray Chandler is simply unbelievable!
He told this to Larry King with a straight face:
Anthony Pellicano was hired on one day. That very evening after he was hired, a third party who had met with Anthony Pellicano that day made a tape recording of my brother. Brought it back to Anthony Pellicano the next day, and then Anthony Pellicano was on the air, saying this is extortion, this is extortion.
Bullshit! Dave Schwarz recorded Evan Chandler and he was not working for Pellicano!
He gave it to Pellicano because Dave learned that Chandler was ready to ruin MJ!
Pellicano didn’t even hear about Chandler before that tape!
MJ had no reason to investigate Chandler before he heard that tape!
And yes, every sane person would want to investigate someone who is on tape saying
that it will be a massacre if he doesn’t get what he wants and Michael’s career will be over and he will destroy everyone in sight and he will be humiliated he won’t believe what will happen to him!
Everyone with a brain would want to know what such a person was up to!
third party my ass! Why didn’t he say that it was Jordan’s stepfather?
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I think he would have attempted to keep extorting more money out of Michael for the rest of his life. In fact, he kind of did when he filed another lawsuit against Michael for $60 million in 1996.
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My own personal opinion with Evan is that he was like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction..Even if he got the money it wouldn’t have been enough ..
He couldn’t stand to be ignored..
I think he would have still tried to ruin MJ life if he couldn’t be in his world..
Unfortunately that seemed to be a pattern for MJ, once people were in his sphere…nobody wants to be left behind
Too exciting to be able to travel on private planes and meet royalty and that sort of thing.
His friendship opened a whole lot of doors..
..so they start trashing him..
Evan is the person who looked at his kid like an object, not MJ.
The fact that his son , the person he was hiding behind to extort MJ got the majority of the cash must have really frosted him.
Frankly I dont see how the kid could have had Evan in his life for so long and not have picked up some of his personality..Not sure he has a conscience either, or how could you live with what you did..
Always makes me wonder because I thought I had heard, the spin was, that they were forced to go into hiding and change their names etc, due to MJ fans threatening them ..
Kinda ironic they seemed to turn on each other.
I did notice that the court filings when Evan tried to kill his son was under their actual names…
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I wonder what would have happened if Michael had payed immediately, like Evan wanted? We know the 20 million was what he wanted for that film deal, but how would Evan have twisted the extortion when it got out? He had warned Michael he was going to ruin him, and we know that’s what he wanted anyway, he planned on ruining both Michael and June’s lives. He despised them that much, he was willing to go that far. [June was spared however because she rolled over to avoid the trouble Evan was preparing for her.]
Was the 20 million deliberately brought up because it would have most certainly alerted the attention of the media. Them wondering why Michael would suddenly give Evan money and not be seen with Jordan anymore?
Two things
1. He wanted the 20 million for that film plan, probably would have told the media Michael invested in him and Jordan, as a parting gift. I wouldn’t be surprised if the snake had continued to extort Michael later on.
2. Things didn’t go his his way, so that plan bellied up. Which he did, turned around told everyone the money would go towards charities, peoples well beings for lives being ruined, blah blah. He would have known his plans for a film deal would gain suspicion if he went ahead with it, and said anything different to what was expected from the father or a ‘molested’ child.
He took everything further because he didn’t get what he wanted during the negotiations, so to Plan B it was.
I’m just speculating, but it is a wonder how he would have spun things had things gone his way?
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It was his bipolar disorder that gave him that incredible confidence and push to put his plan through.He was in the early stages of a manic episode, not yet psychotic,.so he was capable of still thinking logically. Ofcourse only for destructive purposes
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“VMJ, Alexander Luria´s van guard work as a neurologist-psychologist is known and appriciated in psychiatry as well. Your mother had one of the foremost scientists as teacher.”
Yes, I know. They later worked together at one psychology department in a university, though at different chairs.
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VMJ, Alexander Luria´s van guard work as a neurologist-psychologist is known and appreciated in psychiatry as well. Your mother had one of the foremost scientists as teacher.
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“I recommend a book by Dr. Oliver Sacks, a neuropsychiatrist. There was a film made about him : Awakenings. He is fun and and extroverted, not the shy young doctor as depicted in the movie. I have had the priviledge of meeting him personally.”
Kaarin, thank you for your professional contribution to our site. Here is some information about Dr. Oliver Sacks from Wiki:
And my mother had the privilege of having Dr. Luria as one of her teachers! I also met him and remember him very well. Psychologists study the way a healthy mind works, while psychiatrists study the way an ill mind works – but they do closely cooperate with each other.
And it turns out that the world is a small place!
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A bit of correction; The hyper intelligent chessplayers would be on the Aspergers syndrome spectrum rather than on the autism one. Anyway there seems to be a close relationshio between these syndromes and sofar there are many unanswered questions. That is why I urge you to get that book by Dr. Oliver Sacks,it is written for the public and you do not need to be a professional to be in awe of his writings.
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The name of the book is:The man who mistook his hat for his wife.Or was it the otherway around.
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If you really want to know what an incredibly complex thing our minds are, I recommend a book by Dr. Oliver Sachs, a neuropsychiatrist. There was a film made about him : Awakenings. Based on reality ,except his personality, he is fun and and extroverted, not the shy young doctor as depicted in the movie. I have had the priviledge of meeting him personally.
You don´t need to read the book from beginning to end as it is based on real cases. One case per chapter. You will be surprised.
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Since last on this post there has been much written about Evan and other characters. Especially about Evans mental disorder. Of course one has to contend with the fact that these suggestions or opinions will always be armchair..as we cannot meet with the person(s) themselves for a diagnostic interview. We have to be satisfied with educated guesses only.
My impression still is that Evan had a bipolar disorder in some particular stage. To qualify as schizo affective he would also have to have:Marked social and occupational disorder. Sure he disliked his job, but with his 12yo(?) son he had managed with some success to create a movie script with some humorous qualities. He was exceptionally screwed in getting his plot for money realized,that required some interpersonal skills, although used for ill rather than good.
He had been married 2X and had gf´s who all left him .Any schizoid features speaks against this sociability though unsuccessful in the long run.
It is typical of manic depressives to have divorces, often many. Then you have to take into account his basic personality traits which will somewhat colour his symptoms. In schizophrenia delusions tend towards the bizarre,where as in manic depressive illness they are congruent with the mood,ie grandiouse,often with irritability as others do not agree, or depressive, 15 % of manic depressives commit suicide.
My best guess is that he was in a hypymanic stage, maybe on the way to a more fullblown mania. He had grandiouse dreams about making movie scripts and forget the boring dentristy. As to the hyper intelligent chessplayers, nowadays they would be classified some where on the autistic spectrum disorder.
Schizofrenia tends in the long run to interfere with cognitive abilities.
Paranoid schizophrenics sometimes maintain them, but otherwise are unsociable and has major difficulties with reationships.
Fortunately much progress has been made in tha past 50-60 years with medication, so much that the psychological tratment is not paid for sufficiently by medical insurers. New meds, with less side effect have been discovered all the time.
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What goes around comes around eventually!
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Yes he would have sounded a lot like Janet Arvizo on the stand once he got going. Who knows he might have even flown into a rage like he did with his second wife Nathalie. That is another thing; I find it hard to believe that he hit her and never hit June that wouldn’t make sense it would be contrary to spousal abuse, almost like saying she deserved it.
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Vindicatemj,I scrolled down to some old post and hit gold.I mean your comment where you state that it is Evan Chandler who wrote both books.
He had one so-so success with a moviescript in the past and dreamed of that being his furure occupation.He was also creative in his crimininal plot against Michael.Somewhere it was noted that the movie:
Men In Thights, was full of sexual innuendos and jokes.I have not read neither,bur read about them and a few take-outs.Seem very far out and imaginative. Very productive,if not overproductive, he was.
It is really too bad that the case did not go to trial.That could have provoked Evan to go beyond reasonable limits and his pathgology would have been discovered.-But who knows,there might not have been a
Mesereau at the time.
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As stated in these posts it is not correct to make a distance diagnosis of any mental disorder,but one can offer hypotheses ,or scenarios that seem likely.First bipolar disorder comes in a variety of severity and much depends on and if and how it is treated,how good or bad the match is between patient and doctor/psychologist.Most bipolars do take medication.Many are creative when it is not out of control.-Re Evan Chandler he supposedly also had Gauchers disease which can cause neurological symptoms.He must indeed have been a very sick man later in life.He must have had a measure of intelligence as he did complete dental medical school.
At the time when he conjured up the allegations and his plot for extortion it is likely he was manic to a degree, hypomanic that is.
Some envy and greed are ubiquitous qualities in people. Few will go ahead and commit a crime to satisfy their desires though.He was quite bold and creative.His success did turn sour for the family in the long run and mostly for himself.These ilnesses may have played a part in his violent behaviour,his broken marriages and his final social isolation.I do believe that his personality played a role,bipolar illness does not in itself make you prone to criminal behaviour.
Suicide unfortunately is not that unusual.
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Does anyone know the reasons cited for the divorce of Evan and Natalie Chandler?
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Helena, here is a series that Raven did on Evan Chandler a few months ago! It goes right along with what you wrote here about Evan’s psychiatric disorder!
http://allforloveblog.com/?p=2928
http://allforloveblog.com/?p=2945
http://allforloveblog.com/?p=3159
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You know what, before this article, when I read the tape conversations transcripts Evan had with Dave Schwartz, I knew he was border line schizophrenic or bipolar or something. I knew something had to be wrong with him to make his kid say such horrible graphic things, but in the conversation his moods and everything would change and he would sound normal one minute and crazy the next.
I don’t believe Evan and Jordan had a relationship after the allegations because Jordan divorced both his parents. He rekindled his relationship with his father because he was dying during that time 2004 or 2005, and after the restraining order, he left his father and spoke to his mother again. Gavin Arviso’s mom was schizophrenic as well. Figures.
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Nice comments! I’m learning from it. I am having a hard time linking up to other related blogs and getting the word out there about it. Any suggestions?
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I posted a comment but nobody answerd. I will paste it here sorry if it’s not relevant but I was never able to find something on this since the trial period
Does anyone know what happened when Ray Chandler was subpoenaed? When you don’t show up you face punishment. There are no records of this at least in the documents we already have. Does anyone have it?
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“Sad to hear you were forced to stydy something.”
It is okay, no need to worry, now it helps here and there.
“I don’t believe that there was another reason than greed combined with jealousy.”
This reason is okay too. Any reason is okay as long as it helps us to vindicate Michael.
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@vincicatemj concerning
“Either you are the therapist and you can’t speak due to confidentiality issues or you speak in general terms about a topic not a person. We laugh at other “professionals” who do that and we publicly discredit them”
that was not addressed to you. In my native language we use “you” when we speak generally apart from the original meaning of “you” and in english I thought it was the same. Probably I should say “someone” instead.
I was explaining further why I can’t do it without knowing the person and the consequences when someone does it especially in public like “pundits”. Sad to hear you were forced to stydy something.
In my opinion, if that helps, I don’t believe that there was another reason than greed combined with jealousy. He took his chances and he did it. Others tried too later but the first case is always different tgiven the negative publicity and the things went wrong with Michael’s 5th Amendement violation. Had this not happened, Evan would end up like the Arvizo’s. The real question is why Sneddon did it and the answer is because he is narcissist and racist. His office has a long history of malicious prosecution.
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“Either you are the therapist and you can’t speak due to confidentiality issues or you speak in general terms about a topic not a person. We laugh at other “professionals” who do that and we publicly discredit them.”
Visitor, you needn’t laugh or publicly discredit me – I am not a professional at all. I have two Ph.D.s. in Psychology at home, have lived all my life in a deeply psychological environment, was forced to study it for some time and was subjected to their seminars and tests, listened to their debates, seen some of their ‘cases’ and can receive their consultations on the spot (which I often do). Since psychology has been with me all my life I have a kind of an advantage even over some students majoring in this field – at least those of them who do their studies only the night before the exam…
I fully agree with you that it is impossible to make a diagnosis distantly – it isn’t professional – and the only thing I am looking into is the gravity of Evan Chandler’s mental disorder. Actually it is enough for me to know that Evan did have some mental disease, the exact type of which should be determined by doctors who will probably speak one day (?)
What I am trying to do here is to find out WHAT Evan Chandler did to Michael and WHY – whether it was pure extortion or whether it was also the work of a sick mind. Since the “what” question has been more or less answered by now, the time has come for the “why” question too – and this is the only reason why I’m looking into Evan Chandler’s behavior. Making an exact psychiatric diagnosis is none of my business – I am not going to treat him, especially since the man is deceased now.
It would actually be the best outcome for Evan if he did have a mental disorder as Diane Dimond says it – this way he cannot be found answerable for what he did and deserves pity as much as Michael does. But if he was a nasty guy who just had a bad temper and set people up (which doesn’t require a mental illness as you rightly say), then Evan Chandler should be held personally responsible for all the nightmare he turned Michael’s life into. In the latter case the only reasons for his behavior will be extortion, greed for money and possibly fame, and a nasty and beastly character too.
It is either this or that, and any of us is welcome to choose the variant he finds more plausible for Evan Chandler’s case.
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@vindicatemj I will try to answer briefly your questions because I am still at work. What I said was indeed that people with mental illness other than developmental ones have the same chances of the normal IQ range of the general population. All the statements I read with the beining “only schizophrenia can explain” are wrong and a big misinterpratation of the disorder. Schizophrenic patients are the least aggressive of all mental disorders. The context of these sentences can refer either to a person free of a mental disorder or a patient of practically every other disorder of DSM other than schizophrenia. Now, in the case of Evan Chandler as I said in a previous comment there are no clincal signs and clinical image of a person with such a diagnosis and armchair psychology is very dangerous and inaccurate and professionals don’t do that. People suffering from that specific disorder can not carry out a plan like that. What I said is that depending on the onset of the illness (the later in life the better for the cognitive damages), the severity of the symptoms, the response to treatment and certain other factors having to do with the familial envornment, many of them can keep up with their interests in a less effective way until they have a relapse and so on and so forth. I was very specific. Carry out a malicious plan, leading it and going on with it is not within their abilities. I also said in another comment that Chandler, given the fact that it was reported, could fit the bipolar II. If that wasn’t reported at all (still it’s not confirmed by a doctor and I can’t take it as 100% true from stupid Dimond) I could assume that he could also fit the borderline personality disorder or no disorder being an as….hole having a bad temper and setting up people. A mental illness is not required for this. But as I already said, distant diagnosis and armchair psychology is something that respected professionals will never do and it’s not credible at all. Either you are the therapist and you can’t speak due to confidentiality issues or you speak in general terms about a topic not a person. We laugh at other “professionals” who do that and we publicly discredit them.
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Visitor: I didn’t write anywhere in my comment that schizophrenics are not clever. I said they are not “exceptionally clever” like you said. Another misconception of the public. For many years people believed that mental patients were stupid. So we conducted researches and our results demonstrated that there was no difference in the IQ comparing to the general population.
In this case you are confirming the main idea – both bi-polar and schizophrenia patients can be very clever. Sometimes ‘exceptionally’ clever as the example of the Nobel prize winner John Nash proves it.
Whether Evan had exceptional or non-exceptional intellect is not the point. The point is: Was it possible for a mentally impaired person to carry out his devilish plans against Michael Jackson?
I am asking this question not on my own behalf (I know the answer is YES), I am asking it on the part of those ordinary folk who think that a ‘nitwit’ is incapable of devising clever schemes.
It is good that professionals like you explain that mental patients are not ‘nitwits’. Not all mental cases of course, but at least their schizoid types are CATEGORICALLY NOT NITWITS because they are exactly at the other end of the overall mental scale, the opposite end of which is taken by olygophrenia or mentally retarded patients.
Roughly speaking if ‘normal’ people are in the centre of this scale schizoids will be placed on the right side of it, while the mentally retarded will be on the left side of the centre point. The extreme right end will be taken by schizophrenia proper while all the way from it to the centre will be formed by ‘schizoid’ types of lesser or more gravity.
Some famous psychiatrist of the 20th century said “If there were no schizoids in this world it would be a very boring place to live in”. Yes, the distinguishing feature of schizoids is their inventiveness, eccentricity and the ability to see something new in a place where an average person would not notice anything – this ability arises from their somewhat unusual perception of reality. MOST geniuses are schizoids and you know it.
Problems arise only when these symptoms increase and the reality for these people begins to be distorted to the point when they start hearing voices, have hallucinations, and so on, i.e. develop schizophrenia (thus getting to the extreme end of that scale).
I would dispute with Diane Dimond that Evan Chandler had bi-polar mood disorder only. I’ve told you that I don’t believe a single word of what she is saying – given her ability to lie if she was forced to mention ‘bi-polar’ her words should be multiplied tenfold and translate into something much graver than that.
Judging by his behavior Evan Chandler actually fits the pattern of a paranoid schizophrenic.
Besides having fixed ideas about something schizophrenics are exceptionally cruel to those around them as considerations for human feelings are not ‘within their interests’ – it is only ‘pure science’ that they focus on. Only schizophrenia could explain why Evan was so ruthless to his son that he allowed all those hideous things to be published (and wanted ‘abuse’ songs to be sung) about him…
Only schizophrenia would explain why he struck him on the head and tried to choke him because the boy had bought a wrong kind of bread…. Only schizophrenia could stand behind this relentless and methodic harassment Evan subjected Michael to in all those texts he incessantly wrote about him in the internet… Only schizophrenia can explain his meticulous and indiscriminative detailing this and that, and him thinking that everything Michael did and said was about Evan – these patients are so self-centered and paranoid that they think a mother walking with a baby in the street is placed there for the purpose of spying at their window.
In short if a schizophrenic selects someone as his enemy the poor victim can forget about normal life for himself. The only way to solve such a situation is to never meet the guy at all… Unfortunately Michael did meet him.
Let me repeat what Diane Dimond said about Evan Chandler’s strange isolation (also typical) in his last days:
…”Chandler, who was also bipolar, did not take care of his condition [he suffered from a rare metabolic disorder called Gaucher disease]. Moreover, Chandler was estranged from Jordie, his two ex-wives, his children from his second marriage, and his two brothers. “He had pushed everybody away,” Dimond said. “He was very sick. He needed crutches to get around. He couldn’t earn money on his own. He had spent all his money. All he had was a monthly stipend from the son (Jordie) who wouldn’t talk to him.”
Dimond said the cop who responded to Chandler’s apartment found medication and medical paraphernalia all over the room, indicating that Chandler was a “very ill man in a lot of pain.” Chandler’s troubles began years earlier, even before Jordie met Jackson, according to Victor Gutierrez, author of “Michael Jackson Was My Lover: The Secret Diary of Jordan Chandler.”
“This family did not fall apart right after the settlement,” Gutierrez told ABCnews.com. “This family was dysfunctional way before.”
ABC.com http://weekly.dailytrust.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1773:father-of-michael-jackson-acccuser-ended-life-alone-in-pain&catid=3:international&Itemid=111
The family was dysfunctional not only in 2009 but twelve years earlier, in the year 1997 when this article was published:
“Jordan’s real father Evan, who snatched Jordy from his mother and began threatening Jackson with a law suit unless he made a financial deal, has also gone [by 1997].
He split with his second wife Natalie in 1995. He reportedly got one million dollars in the eventual settlement by Jackson and quit his successful dental practice. Though he lives only a few hundred yards away in a bachelor pad, he rarely sees his son now.
Jordy lives with his step-mother Natalie, his eight- year-old half-brother Nikki and half-sister Emmanuel, five.
Since the crazed British Jackson fan Denise Pfeiffer got into the house and threatened the family, the boundary is lined with an 8ft spiked iron fence.
His father is still embroiled in a series of law cases. Evan is being sued by Jordy’s step-father for breaking up the family. Jordy’s first attorney in turn is suing for his share of the settlement. And his dad is suing Jackson again for allegedly breaking a gag order they had agreed on”.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-61114091.html
P.S. Continuous suing is also typical as the process turns with these people into the substance of what they are doing. And when it goes hand in hand with a fixed idea too, ooooh…
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@ vindicatemj I didn’t write anywhere in my comment that schizophrenics are not clever. I said they are not “exceptionally clever” like you said. Another misconception of the public. For many years people believed that mental patients were stupid. So we conducted researches and our results demonstrated that there was no difference in the IQ comparing to the general population. That only and simply means they have the same chances for the IQ range as non mentally ill patients. It means nothing more than that. To this day people, still misinterpret that fact including patient’s relatives as well. All these people you mentioned were cognitiviley affected by the disease and they could not function as they would have without it. In the affected population there are differences in functionability which is related to the age that the person was affected (the later in life the better because of the cognitive issues) and his/her response to medication. People recover their epsiodes, many of them pretty well, and they continue with their life in a different much less functionable way until their next episode hits them and the cycle goes on. These are the good cases. The cognitive abilities stop developing and the patient continues his life with what he had as skills before the illness. That, unless the episodes are very severe that he will never be able to continue his former life ever again. Someone non related with the field will not understand that the person suffers a mental illness if he is recovering well and responds to treatment If the individual does not meet the criterion of not being able to function, the diagnosis of schizophrenia will never be put in his record. It’s mandatory. We don’t generalise in science and the cognitive impairment in people suffering schizophrenia is unquestionable. This is what the disorder attacks. I hope it’s more clear now but again it’s difficult to explain these things from zero point in a comment in an audience with different background.
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Visitor, and here is a piece on the chess genius Bobby Fischer, whose name is not openly linked to schizophrenia only out of respect for his memory. By the way Bobby Fischer was so non-productive that he couldn’t even finish high school:
http://www.goddesschess.com/chesstories/fischerend.html
Some excerpts:
This radio broadcast was Fischer’s seventeenth in the Philippines. The bizarre karaoke interlude was a departure of sorts, but otherwise the broadcast was no different from the previous sixteen. Fischer’s talking points never vary.
1) Bobby Fischer is being persecuted by world Jewry
2) The United States government is a “brutal, evil dictatorship” that has falsely accused Bobby Fischer of a crime and forced him to live in exile.
3) Bobby Fischer has been swindled out of a “vast fortune” in royalties by book publishers, movie studios, and clock manufacturers (yes, clock manufacturers), who have brazenly pilfered his brand name, patents, and copyrights.
4) The Jews are a “filthy, lying bastard people” bent on world domination through such insidious schemes as the Holocaust (“a money-making invention”), the mass murder of Christian children (“their blood is used for black-magic ceremonies”), and junk food (William Rosenberg, the founder of Dunkin’ Donuts, is singled out as a culprit).For chess buffs who tune in for some shoptalk from the game’s most revered icon, there is this:
5) Chess is nothing more than “mental masturbation.” Not only is the game dead, it’s fixed. Gary Kasparov, the world’s top-rated player, is a “crook” and a former KGB spy who hasn’t played a match in his life in which the outcome wasn’t prearranged.
The No. 1 transgression, however, the thing that has devastated Fischer, embittered him, and made him screech at night, alone in his apartment, is the “Bekins heist.”
6) Millions of dollars’ worth of personal memorabilia, painstakingly collected and stockpiled by Bobby Fischer in a ten-by-ten-foot Bekins storage room in Pasadena, California, has been stolen from him in a secret plot involving the Rothschilds (Jews), Bill Clinton (a secret Jew), and unnamed Bekins executives (CIA rats who work for the Jews)
Fischer’s paranoia, rage, and hubris have been enough to transform him into an enemy of the state; they have been enough to sabotage a brilliant career and turn a confident, charismatic figure into a dithering recluse; and, sadly, they have been enough to make us forget that when Bobby Fischer played chess, it was absolutely riveting theater, even for those who didn’t play the game.
In many ways Fischer’s story resembles that of the mentally unstable Nobel Prize winner John Forbes Nash Jr., the mathematician who inspired the book and Oscar-winning movie A Beautiful Mind, but without the happy ending. Both Fischer and Nash were the best at their chosen professions. Both were widely considered to be geniuses. Both were also supremely arrogant, rebellious, eccentric, and – although respected – not necessarily well liked by colleagues. Fischer left the United States to live in exile. So did Nash. Even eerier, while in the grip of schizophrenia Nash was an anti-Semite and was convinced that Communists (the men at MIT wearing red ties) were observing him.
…It was the way he was winning. He didn’t just beat people – he humiliated them. The thing he relished most was watching his opponents squirm. “I like the moment when I break a man’s ego,” he once said, during a Dick Cavett interview.
…He lacked education, and had always been insecure about this. His deficiency was particularly glaring now that most of his interaction was with adults, many of whom were sophisticated and well-read.
…This limited world view prompted Fischer to drop out of Brooklyn’s Erasmus Hall High School midway through his junior year. It was hardly a case of a promising academic life being cut short. Pulling courtesy Ds, ostracized by the other students, Fischer was going nowhere. Many chess insiders have insisted that the poor grades were a direct result of an abnormally high IQ—that is, Bobby wasn’t stupid, he was just bored. Everybody agrees that Fischer is no dummy, including Fischer himself (during one interview he said, “I object to being called a chess genius, because I consider myself to be an all-around genius who just happens to play chess”), but chess champions aren’t necessarily geniuses. What they need for success is powerful memories, the ability to concentrate deeply, refined recognition and problem-solving skills, decisiveness, stamina, and a killer instinct.
….The press also loved to talk about his greed. But Fischer never cared about money per se. “Bobby wanted to get all kinds of money for everything,” says Arnold Denker, a former U.S. chess champion, “and yet when he got it, he pissed it away. In Reykjavík [the site of the 1972 world-championship match between Fischer and Boris Spassky] the maids who cleaned up his room made thousands of dollars because he left money under the pillows and all over. He wanted money because to him it meant that people thought he was important.”
…Fischer demanded richer purses not only to validate his self-worth but because he was convinced that tournament promoters were out to fleece him. He would sign a tournament contract only to obsess later about how quickly his demands had been met. Although the prize money involved was always more than fair, Fischer’s paranoia invariably got the best of him. “Away from the board, Bobby suffered from a terrible inferiority complex,” says Allan Kaufman, the former director of the American Chess Foundation. “In his mind he concocted lots of excuses: people were taking advantage of him; they were smarter than he was; if he had only had their education, he would know what to ask for in negotiations.” Often before the ink on a contract was dry, Fischer would refuse to play unless the purse was raised. Promoters would cave, only to receive word later that Fischer was demanding even more money. Frequently the negotiations became so impossible that frustrated promoters simply walked. These confrontations prolonged his quest for the world title.
….In the fall of 1968 Fischer walked out of the Chess Olympiad in Switzerland. He refused to play for another eighteen months, and some feared that his competitive drive had stalled, but that wasn’t the case. He was still training fourteen hours a day and playing chess privately. And in 1970 and 1971 he returned to public competition and had the longest winning streak in tournament chess, when he won twenty consecutive outright victories against the world’s top grand masters, a record unrivaled in the modern era.
…Fischer’s performance in Iceland was no disappointment. He put on a show that was equal parts Ionesco play, soap opera, and political potboiler. Between acts he managed to play some brilliant chess. The games were an instant hit. “World Chess Championship,” the Shelby Lyman program created by PBS to cover the tournament, was at the time the highest-rated PBS show ever—an amazing fact, considering that it consisted of little more than a giant wall-mounted chess board on which each move was recorded and then discussed by several analysts.
… Fischer’s accomplishment cannot be overstated. A brash twenty-nine-year-old high school dropout, armed with little more than a pocket chess set and a dog-eared book documenting Spassky’s important games, had single-handedly defeated the Soviet chess juggernaut.
… Fischer returned home to a hero’s welcome.
….Following the City Hall ceremony Fischer returned to Pasadena, leaving $5 million worth of unsigned endorsement contracts on his lawyer’s desk. It wasn’t that he didn’t want the extra income; he just couldn’t deal with the creeps. He also stopped playing tournament chess. And in 1975 the World Chess Federation (known by its French acronym, FIDE) stripped him of his world-championship title for failure to defend his crown against the Russian grand master Anatoly Karpov. Such stonewalling was difficult for chess people to fathom, given that Fischer was so much stronger than the competition. The truth was that Bobby Fischer was running scared. “Bobby was always afraid of losing,” Arnold Denker says. “I don’t know why, but he was. The fear was in him”.
… Instead of playing tournaments, Fischer retreated to the protective cocoon of the Worldwide Church of God, an apocalyptic cult that predicted the end of the world every four to seven years and whose members tithed up to 30 percent of their income.
… Fischer’s relationship with the WCG, like all the others in his life, didn’t last. In 1977, after a bitter falling-out that led Fischer to claim that the WCG was taking its orders from a “satanical secret world government,” he cut all ties with the Church. Then he crawled even further into his own netherworld. He began dressing like a hobo. He took up residence in seedy hotels. He began worrying about the purity of his bodily fluids. He bought great quantities of exotic herbal potions, which he carried in a suitcase, to stave off the toxins he feared might be secretly put in his food and water by Soviet agents.
…Perhaps the most telling sign of his rapid mental deterioration was that he insisted on having all his dental fillings removed. “If somebody took a filling out and put in an electronic device, he could influence your thinking,” Fischer confided to a friend. “I don’t want anything artificial in my head.” The low point of Fischer’s California sojourn came on May 26, 1981, when two Pasadena police officers stopped him for an ID check. By then he had unkempt hair, a scraggly beard, and tattered clothes, and looked like an aging hippie down on his luck. He also generally fit the description of a man who had recently committed two bank robberies in the neighborhood. He refused to answer questions and was taken to jail, where he spent forty-eight hours. “All he had to do was tell the police he was Bobby Fischer, the chess player, and the whole thing would have been over,” a friend says. “But he just couldn’t bring himself to do it. Submitting to authority is a foreign concept to Bobby.”
….Once Fischer arrived in Yugoslavia, however, he showed not the slightest indication of mental trouble. He wore a suit and appeared healthy, robust, almost happy. “Bobby is so kind, so friendly,” Spassky marveled at the time. “He is normal!” Lev Alburt ventures an explanation. “Chess is a game that forces you to be objective and to take into account an opponent’s views,” he says. “It forces you to make reasonable judgments and to be sane. When Bobby quit playing, it was really the end of his rational existence. And he began filling that void with crazy ideas….
Look at this handsome man and his legendary achievements:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Fischer
P.S. In an uncanny way Bobby Fischer does remind me of the character who is being discussed in this thread.
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Visitor, as to schizophrenics ‘not being clever’ and being ‘unable to carry out plans’ (due to their truly impaired cognitive abilities) here is a list of some of them – headed by the Nobel prize winner, mathematician John Nash:
John Nash – (born June 13, 1928) John Nash is an American mathematician working in differential geometry, game theory and partial differential equations. A hollywood movie has been made representing Nash, the movie itself name “A beautiful Mind” which was later nominated for 8 Oscars. The movie was based on his mathematical genius and his struggle with Schizophrenia. Nash would conduct scientific experiments in his room at a young age and would prefer to work alone. He was often rejected by his classmates and would most of the time laugh it off with practical jokes and intellectual superiority. He would see everyone elses daily activities as a distraction to his scientific work. Nash was awarded the John von Neumann Theory Prize for his invention of non-cooperative equilibria, now called Nash equilibria. Between 1945 and 1996 he had published a total of 23 scientific studies.
William Chester Minor – (June 1834 – 1920), an American surgeon who was also making valuable contributions to the Oxford English Dictionary. After completing his education, William Chester began serving the Union Army. After the end of the American Civil War, he began to spend most of his time off-duty with prostitutes. His condition further worsened to an extent where he had to be admitted to a lunatic asylum in Washington DC. Showing no improvement he continued with his debauched life. In his paranoia, he had once, shot a man, who he believed to have broken into his room. He was judged innocent on the grounds of insanity. Later, Chester proved to be one of the best volunteers contributing to the Oxford English Dictionary. His condition however deteriorated further. He was diagnosed schizophrenia.
Eduard Einstein – (28 July 1910 – 25 October 1965) Eduard Einstein was extremely intelligent and always surpassed other students in school. Throughout his youth Eduard wanted to be a psychoanalyst but was afflicted with schizophrenia by the age of 20 which leaded him to be institutionalized several times. He died in an asylum at age 55 and his family lineage has been used to raise public awareness of schizophrenia.
Syd Barrett – (6 January 1946 – 7 July 2006) Syd was an English artist, songwriter, guitarist and artist being in the renowned rock band of Pink Floyd. He left the band in 1968 while many told stories of him having mental illnesses during his hard drug abuse. He eventually suffered a severe burnout and cut out all social aspects of his life while remaining in constant isolation. With time Barrett stopped contributing to music and would not like people mentioning his past with Pink Floyd.
Jack Kerouac – (March 12, 1922 – October 21, 1969) Jack Kerouac was an American novelist, poet, writer and artist responsible for very popular work that recieved little critical acclaim during his lifetime. He inspired many other novelist and artists such as The Beatles, Tom Robbins and Bob Dylan. Kerouac did not learn English until the age of 6 and spoke only french. He has written a few unpublished books in his native language and it is said that he originally started writing “On The Road” in French. Kerouac was later arrested as an accessory in the murder of David Kammerer, who had been stalking Kerouak’s friend Lucien Carr.
James Beck Gordon – (Jim Gordon) – (born in 1945) James is an American Recording Artist, Songwriter and Grammy Award winning Musician. Being one of the most requested session drummers in the late 1960’s and 1970’s. James is now incarcerated in Atascadero State Hospital after killing his mother following a demand from one of the voices in his head. He was sentenced to 16 years to life in prison, he was diagnosed with Schizophrenia during the trial.
Lionel Aldridge – (February 14, 1941 – February 12, 1998) played American football professionally as a defensive end on the historic Green Bay Packers teams of the sixties.After retiring, Aldridge worked as sports analyst in Milwaukee until manifesting a mental illness called paranoid schizophrenia during the early seventies. “There was extreme paranoia and irritability and it was difficult for me to get along with others. I was unable to work. It was a rough setting” Lionel explained. After 10 years of being untreated and several years of being homeless Lionel finally fought the illness when he accepted to find a treatment with the help of some of his friends.
Peter Green – (born 29 October 1946) Guitarist for the band Fleetwood Mac. Green played lead in Peter Bardens’ band, Peter B’s Looners, in 1966. After a three month stint, he had the opportunity to fill in for Eric Clapton in John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers for three gigs. Upon Clapton’s permanent departure not long after, he was hired full-time. Green has been institutionalized in the past with psychological problems and he underwent electro convulsive therapy in the mid-1970s. Many sources attest to his lethargic, trance like state during this period. In 1977, he was arrested for threatening his accountant, Clifford Davis, with a rifle, but the exact circumstances are the subject of much speculation, the most popular being that Green wanted Davis to stop.
Mary Todd Lincoln – (December 13, 1818 – July 16, 1882) Mary Todd was the wife of America’s 16th President Abraham Lincoln and was the first lady of the United States. Abraham Lincoln always pursued his increasingly successful career and Mary Todd Lincoln was well educated and she shared the same fierce ambitions. In February 1862 her son Willie died at the age of 11 years old. After his death Mary spent a considerable amount of money to pay for mediums and spiritualists to try and contact her dead son, spending a lot of money the family did not have. She was known to suffer from Schizophrenia.
Joe Meek – (born 5 April, 1929 in Newent, Gloucestershire – 3 February 1967 in London) Joe Meek was a pioneering English record producer and songwriter acknowledged as one of the world’s first and most imaginative independent producers. Meek was obsessed with the occult and the paranormal, especially the idea of the “other side”. He sometimes used to set up tape recorders at graveyards to try and hear the voices of the dead, at one point he claimed that a cat that was recorded was actually imitating a human’s voice calling for help. Another time Meek claimed that that the late American rocker Buddy Holly had tried to communicate with him in dreams. Joe Meek was known to suffer of Schizophrenia.
Andy Goram – (born April 13, 1964) Andy Goram is a former professional footballer who played as a goalkeeper. Also a cricketer, Goram represented the Scottish cricket team four times: twice (1989 and 1991) in the annual first-class game against Ireland and twice (again in 1989 and 1991) in the NatWest Trophy. Goram has faced accusations of sectarianism. He attracted publicity for sporting a black armband at a match in 1997 after the murder of the Loyalist paramilitary Billy Wright. Andy Goram’s ex-wife, Tracey, once released a photograph of him in a bar holding a flag of Northern Irish Loyalist group the UVF. After it was reported in the press that Goram had a mild form of schizophrenia, fans responded with a chorus of “Two Andy Gorams, there’s only two Andy Gorams”. This chant quickly gained popularity, and became the title of a book documenting humorous football chants.
Meera Popkin – A star of Cats and Miss Saigon on Broadway and in London’s West End was diagnosed with schizophrenia. Her life went from center stage and limos to waiting tables at Wendy’s, but she’s now back and is doing well. “I’ve had quite a year. I thought the highlight would be getting married. I thought the highlight would be having my baby girl. Now it looks like the highlight is being completely recovered from schizophrenia. Did I ever have it? Was I misdiagnosed? Am I the one in a thousand that recovers from this illness? These are the questions my doctor is asking.”
Vaclav Nijinsky – Vaslav Fomich Nijinsky (March 12, 1889 – April 8, 1950) was a Polish ballet dancer and choreographer. Nijinsky was one of the most gifted male dancers in history, and he became celebrated for his virtuosity and for the depth and intensity of his characterizations. He could perform en pointe, a rare skill among male dancers at the time (Albright, 2004) and his ability to perform seemingly gravity-defying leaps was also legendary. Nijinsky had a nervous breakdown in 1919 and his career effectively ended. He was diagnosed with schizophrenia and taken to Switzerland by his wife where he was treated by psychiatrist Eugene Bleuler. He spent the rest of his life in and out of psychiatric hospitals and asylums.
Tom Harrell – Born on June 16, 1946, Tom Harrell is a famous American post bop jazz trumpeter. He is also a well-known composer. He began exhibiting his talent in music at a very young age. He started playing the trumpet at the age of 8. In 1969, he passed out of the Stanford University with a degree in music composition. He soon became a part of the Stan Kenton’s orchestra. He later played in many a famous music bands and orchestras. In 1989, he led his own groups. This renowned musician suffers from paranoid schizophrenia. He suffers severe side effects of the anti-psychotic drugs. He has to deal with muscle spasms, weight gain and such other side effects. Despite his disease, he continues to rock the musical shows in different parts of the world.
And many-many others – clear and unclear cases…
http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/famous-schizophrenia.shtml
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@vindicatemj there is no manic state in schizophrenia. Schizophrenics are not exceptionally clever and that particular disorder attacks and destroys the cognitive abilities of the patient so by definition they have impaired cognitive abilities. The word mania we use in the dictionry has nothing to do with the operational definition in this science. It has a different meaning as a symptom and it’s vey specific. It’s unsafe for someone who hasn’t clinically examined the patient to make a distance diagnosis like the official way we do it but given the fact that Chandler was able to carry that plan he couldn’t be schizoprenic. Bipolar can not be excluded for him but we are talking about bipolar II here because in I it’s very difficult not to be hospitalized in your life time. Unless I see the drugs he was taking with the doses included I can’t say much. On the contrary, Janet Arvizo fell under the psychotic disorders. We understand that the public gets confused over terms and explanations and misinterpretation is a common result but it’s science and like every other scientific field you have to study and practise it. If Chandler was under pressure under the stand (on purpose by the lawyer-it’s a common tactic in these cases) the probability that he would become aggresive to a threatening point was high.
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Probably my comment was misunderstood. I didn’t say Evan wasn’t mentally ill. I said that bipolar disorder and schizophrenia are not similar.
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Home | About | Donate/Volunteer | Contact | Jobs| Early Schizophrenia Screening Test
Differential Diagnosis of Schizophrenia and Bipolar Disorder
Stanford University Schizophrenia and Bipolar Education Day, July 30 2005
Lecture Outline:
Misdiagnosis difficulties delay proper treatment
Similarities between schizophrenia and bipolar
A categorical vs. a dimensional approach to psychiatric disorders
Differences between schizophrenia and bipolar – clues to diagnosing one vs. the other
Summary and conclusion
Editor’s Note: the following is a summary of a lecture given by Dr. Terence Ketter, Associate Professor of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences and Chief of the Bipolar Disorders Clinic at the Stanford University School of Medicine. Direct quotes will be indicated with quotation marks; any other text is paraphrase based on Dr. Ketter’s words.
According to one study surveying members of the National Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance, there is an average delay of 10 years from the first onset of symptoms to correct diagnosis and treatment of psychiatric disorders. This is an immense and potentially dangerous delay – schizophrenia and bipolar disorder can easily become degenerative diseases, with more and more brain damage occuring as psychotic or mood episodes continue unabated. Dr. Ketter cited some of the major reasons for this delay between symptoms and treatment, including:
People do not realize that their experiences are out of the spectrum of normal behaviors.
Frequent midsiagnoses (for example, misdiagnosis of bipolar as unipolar depression, or misdiagnosis of childhood-onset bipolar disorder as ADHD) delays correct treatment for the true condition.
These misdiagnoses can cause years of delay to proper treatment, with potentially destructive results. Imagine, for example, treating a child who actually has pediatric bipolar disorder with ritalin for a supposed case of ADHD. Giving such a child a stimulant can lead to mood destabilization. Similarly, giving a patient in a depressive episode antidepressants (the standard treatment for unipolar depression) without a mood stabilizer will potentially destabilize someone with bipolar disorder.
Schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are are often misdiagnosed as one another, and this is not so surprising when we consider how much the two disorders have in common. For example:
Schizophrenia and bipolar disorder share medications. Five of the current atypical antipsychotics originally approved to treat schizophrenia are now also approved as treatment for acute mania. Two of them are even approved as maintenance treatments for bipolar disorder. The fact that these two diseases are helped by some of the same pharmacological treatments indicates that they may have similar pathophysiology causing the symptoms.
The positive symptoms of schizophrenia can look like the symptoms in about 50% of manic episodes, epecially those with psychotic features. (These can include delusions of grandeur, hallucinations, disorganized speech, paranoia, etc).
The negative symptoms of schizophrenia can closely resemble the symptoms of a depressive episode (these include apathy, extreme emotional withdrawal, lack of affect, low energy, social isolation, etc).
The two disorders share abnormalities in some of the same neurotransmitter systems. For example, both depressive episode symptoms and the negative symptoms of schizophrenia are at least partially mediated by serotonin. Likewise, the positive symptoms of schizphophrenia and the symptoms of mania are mediated in some way by excesses of dopamine signalling. The atypical antipsychotics approved for both these disorders work on both the serotonin and the dopamine systems.
However, despite a significant overlap in symptoms, treatment, and pathophysiology, the current system for diagnosing psychiatric disorders in Western medicine (in the U.S., the DSM-IV contains all the guidelines for psychiatric diagnosis) emphasizes a categorical separation between diseases. In other words, it emphasizes differences, not similarities. In the past this differential diagnosis separation was more important; before the advent of the atypical antipsychotics, first-generation neuroleptics used for schizophrenia actually made bipolar disorder worse.
“[The DSM-IV] really is a categorical system, and people just fall through the gaps, folks who have intermediate difficulties,” Dr. Ketter said.
He suggested that perhaps we should now consider a more dimensional approach to diagnosis, one that would focus on treating the common symptoms and pathophysiology.
We can use an analogy from physics to examine the categorical vs. dimensional approach question. When asked whether light is a wave or a particle, a physicist will correctly answer: “it is both”. However, depending on what question we are trying to answer, it can be more helpful to emphasize one model (wave or particle characteristics) over the other. If we can hold on to two different ways of looking at the same thing, we may be able to get more information. Similarly with psychiatric diagnoses, depending on what we are trying to do, it can be more helpful at times to approach diagnoses categorically (as separate entities) and at other times dimensionally (as a spectrum).
Some of the most compelling evidence for how to look at these disorders, said Dr. Ketter, is coming out of the field of genetics. The data suggest that “these disorders are complex, that they have a robust genetic component, but [they are] built on a number of small-effect genes.” Some of these genes may be related to both bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. “This is the kind of data,” Dr. Ketter continued, “that would support this kind of dimensional spectrum.
A categorical approach does not only break down when we compare major disorders such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. For example, the DSM-IV also groups diagnoses into large “class categories” called axes; it classifies disorders into five different Axes (I – V).
“The Axis-I disorders [i.e. schizophrenia, bipolar, and unipolar depression, among others] are thought to be certain biological disorders, related to a genetic vulnerability, that are triggered by something in the environment. We also have these so-called “axis-II disorders”…that [historically] had to do with Freudian psychology, and personality. As it turns out, as we learn more and more about these disorders, these Axis-II or ‘personality-trait’ type disorders are being vaccuummed back up into the Axis-I disorders.”
“The impact of this is very important,” Dr. Ketter continued, “because there is a biology to these disorders.” Not just individual diagnoses, but also broader categories of disorders, are being approached from a more dimensional perspective as we learn more about their underlying causes.
Acknowledging commonalities through a dimensional spectrum approach has allowed us to broaden the clinical power of the atypical antipsychotics, which work on both the serotonin and the dopamine system to address some of the common symptoms that appear in both schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. Having medicines that can work for both disorders “can be very, very, valuable” said Dr. Ketter. However, he continued “one of the dangers is that we’ll let down our guard, and think that diagnosis doesn’t matter…but there are important differences between schizophrenia and bipolar disorder that we need to pay attention to.”
Some key differences are visible at the initial onset of symptoms. According to a Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance survey (formally the National Manic-Depression Association), 33% of people diagnosed with bipolar disorder remember depression as being their initial symptom experiences, and 32% recall mania at their first onset. Only 9% of survey respondants experienced psychotic symptoms first. This shows that even though these symptoms can appear in people with either disorder, certain types of symptoms may be more likely to appear at the onset of one disease than the other. Similarly, the classic onset of schizophrenia symptoms will be more likely to include delusions that are odd or bizarre, not so much delusions of religious grandiosity, which are more often seen in bipolar disorder.
“The symptoms that come first are usually the symptoms that will indicate what’s going on, but not always,” Dr. Ketter cautioned. “There are always some people with bipolar disorder that have odd delusions.”
The following table, based off of one of Dr. Ketter’s presentation slides, shows some of the differences most often noted between schizophrenia and bipolar disorder at the onset of the illness:
Clues to determine an initial diagnosis of schizophrenia or bipolar Bipolar Schizophrenia
Premorbid behavior: Social Withdrawn
History of depression? Yes No
Onset: Rapid Insidious
Family History:
Affective disorders Schizophrenia
Dr. Ketter also emphasized that environmental input may influence which of the disease paths eventually manifests in certain individuals. The risk for developing bipolar disorder for someone who’s identical twin already has bipolar disorder is about 70% – it’s not 100%, he indicated. This shows a significant role for environment interaction with genes.
“Genetics confer some kind of a vulnerability, and there may be protective factors and triggering factors. It could be that someone that someone had a disposition to bipolar disorder or schizophrenia, and they took a hallucinogen, had a psychotic experience from it, and then they ended up developing the symptoms of schizophrenia.”
(Editor’s note: Scienctists has identified several possible “triggers” such as Dr. Ketter mentions above, correlations between people who tend to develop schizophrenia or bipolar disorder and certain environmental factors in their lives or backgrounds. See some possible environmental contributors to schizophrenia, and what you can do to maybe reduce your risk. See also possible environmental contributors to bipolar disorder.)
So what can we conclude about the debate between categorical vs. dimensional models for psychiatric disorders? “About three-quarters of the data suggests that [the disorders] are dimensional, and about one quarter suggests that they are different categories,” says Dr. Ketter. Moreover, data has definitely shown some utility for adjunct mood stabilizer therapy for treating schizophrenia, and definite utility for the second-generation antipsychotics for treating bipolar disorder.
However, Dr. Ketter closed by saying reminding us that we should be shooting for a combined categorical and dimensional approach. “There will be times when a very categorical approach will be more useful, and other times when a dimensional-spectrum approach will be more useful.”
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Yes, visitor, you are partially right. But we’ve learned that Evan Chandler had a bipolar disorder from Diane Dimond and have only her word for it. The amount of hate this woman poured on Michael Jackson is immeasurable, so anyone who would be on the anti-Jackson side would automatically be a dear friend to DD. If such a woman had to admit that ‘something was wrong’ with her best friend Evan Chandler it means that there was something really wrong with him. He could have had schizophrenia (some of the symptoms do coincide, for example, the manic state) and you know that schizophrenics can be exceptionally clever and inventive (and look normal unless you touch on their mania).
The fact that no one could communicate with Evan Chandler and he was alienated from the whole of his family and even his children, the fact that he made an attempt on his own son’s life (because Jordan bought a wrong sort of bread!) and killed himself in the end give us enough grounds to think that his illness was much graver than ‘bipolar disorder”.
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I have to correct something here because I am a clinical psychologist and I found a mistake. Schizophrenia and bipolar disorder do not have similar symptoms. They are 2 totally different psychiatric disorders. Sometimes bipolar patients display psychotic symptoms as a side effect of mood stabilizers. It’s a side effect on some patients not a similarity
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I haven’t yet read it through completely but it looks like an interesting read: http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/theextortionofmichaeljackson.html
(Make sure to click on the link below, I couldn’t directly give a ling to that doc file here.)
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I haven’t read it yet through, but I started and it looks like an interesting read: http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/1993_Case_Reflections_Chandler.doc
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I haven’t yet read it through completely, but I started it and it looks like an interesting read: http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/1993_Case_Reflections_Chandler.doc
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If these “30 nights” occurred before the alleged molestation began – what’s the point of even bringing it up?! Seems that people like Ray are trying to make it look like something happened.
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Another thing about Ray Chandler that I noticed is that in the All That Glitters book, he mentions that you can go to his official website to download the legal documents, but that website is now defunct. Wonder why he took it down?
I also read somewhere that Ray was subpoenaed by Mesereau, but wasn’t called in to testify. I’ve always wondered why, as his testimony could have HELPED MJ, LOL! Also, if Sneddon wasn’t willing to subpoena Jordie or Evan, couldn’t Mesereau had forced them to testify, and then subsequently bring in the witnesses to testify against them that he described in that speech at Harvard?
Also, if you’ve ever wondered why Gloria Allred has such a vendetta against MJ, part of it is because she was hired by the Chandlers to represent them in criminal court. But I think she wanted to go to criminal court first and convict MJ, while the Chandlers and Feldman wanted to go to civil court because they “didn’t have faith” in the DA pressing charges against MJ because he was a celebrity. They had a falling out, and Allred was fired because she wouldn’t conform to their strategy, and she’s been an MJ hater ever since.
It’s funny how this post only had 2 comments as of May 8th, but ever since my comment on June 20th describing Evan’s assault on Jordie, this post has EXPLODED with over 50 comments! I think it shows how hungry we are for info on the Chandlers!
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Diane Dimond likes to take credit for tracking down and breaking the news of the 1993 allegations. In her book Be Careful Who You Love she describes in great detail how she and a staff photographer go to meet someone in a dark Restaurant. She says she fervently writes notes while talking to the person holding the leaked DCFS report. Her boss at the time was Burt Kearns the creator of tabloid television and Hard Copy; here is the truth according to Kearns as to how Diane actually got her information;
On August 17th, 1993 the day that Michael Jackson left the country to begin a tour promoting his Dangerous album, police in Los Angeles began investigating a thirteen year old boy’s allegation that the superstar had molested him during a four month romance.
The monumental show business scandal urged Hard Copy out of its rerun schedule. A former tabloid writer on the assignment desk brought up an illegally –leaked copy of the Department of child services abuse report and handed it to Diane Dimond, who was given credit for tracking down the report herself.
The show’s ratings skyrocketed. It was another defining story for tabloid television.
Tabloid Baby page 276
No one knows where the leaked document ever came from and she doesn’t either. She took what she knew to be an illegally leaked protected document and built a scandal around it never talking to the Chandlers let alone Jordan to see of it was true. Someone gave her a copy of this so it must have been true. In the Chandlers version they say that they decide not to SUE DCFS for the leak or to investigate it to find out who did it. Well I have news for the world DCFS would have done its own investigation they didn’t have to have the Chandlers permission to investigate a criminal act inside their own department. They would have also had to tell Michaels lawyer who was responsible for the leak if they did an investigation because Michael had as much right to press charges against them as the Chandlers did. Considering that the documents were once available for sale on the ATG website my guess they were leaked by one of the Chandlers themselves because they were the ones with the copies. He really meant what he said when he said he would destroy Michael ruin him if he did not get what he wanted and I don’t think as they contend that it was to talk to Michael, to straighten things out. Michael left the country and didn’t give him his money that’s what he wanted.
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lynette, thanks, I think I have it stored (probably not all parts – need to check up) and will post in a separate page.
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Is there a wayto give you guys a copy of the Veritas Project without trying to add the entire text to the posted comment. It doesn’t seem to want to take that much text so I want to add it as a file to my comment for you to save.
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“My favorite part was when they tried to tell people that the photos from after the search of drawers hanging out of dressers and mattresses on the bathroom floor was how he lived like they had found the place like that. I am going to get those photos and articles I found before, I will find them somewhere”
Lynette, yes, even the drawers… They are using EVERY opportunity to slander Michael and the effort they are making is what makes it all the more suspicious. Now they are erasing the evidence of their most outrageous lies so that we should never be able to learn the truth.
I think we should all start copying things to our computers while this evidence is still available…
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Lynette: “Evan/Ray wrote that they were in Larry’s office on December 14th. He starts this by saying that Jordan had given a description of Michaels penis to the DA in September but they were in Larry’s office on December 14th going over the description? Anybody else confused yet?”
This can only mean that the December declaration was a completely unnecessary thing to do – everything was told by Jordan to the police back in September and they still couldn’t make criminal charges against Michael – which means there was nothing ‘terrible’ in what he said. The December declaration served only one purpose – to create an unbearable atmosphere for Michael in the media and force him to make a settlement with them. Also remember that on December 20 they arranged a strip search to humiliate him even further and completely BREAK his will to finish up the matter. No wonder Michael was fed up and wanted to put an end to it.
However – when you are dirty all over and every news outlet reports graphic details of the ‘molestation technique’ – how can the settlement money be called ‘hush money’? It is completely beyond my understanding… I would call it “slamming the door” or “I’ll-give-you-anything-only-leave-me-alone-and-go-to-hell-with-it” money – but definitely not “hush money”.
Lynette, BTW you say they went to Larry Feldman’s office on December 14? Why is Jordan’s declaration dated December 28 then?
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I know some of the documents are startingto be erased from the internet. Only yesterday I went to find a photo of the “Child Pornography” that they presented as evidence in 2005 at the trial. The funny thing is the 2 articles that they say were porn were seized in 1993 not 2003 as so many like to believe because theyhave been lead to believe it by the press. They used to be mixed in with photos from the drugs from Michael house in Holmby Hills. They had all kinds of drug bottles with dates back to 2002 and 2003 with “aliases” on them . It was on TMZ and I now get an error when I try to advance the photos. What they had done was combine photos from 1993, 2003 and 2009 to show people that Michael Jackson was a drug addict. What did Michael do haul these bottles with him all ove the world for 5,10 15 years? Now other people looking at them would just look and see what they were and not think to look at the script number and date, I’m a nurse so I would automatically look at those it is just a habit I have from work. It was also followed by what a mess his house was and 2 wonderful examples of tabloid media at their verybest. Theyhad all of his pictures from every search ever conducted on Neverland but not one of them actually came from his rented home in Belair.My favorite part was when they tried to tell people that the photos from after the search of drawers hanging out of dressers and mattresses on the bathroom floor was how he lived like they had found the place like that.It was crazy the number of people that would comment about how could he live like that. I am going to get those photos and articles I found before, I will find them somewhere
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Lynette, thank you very much for the date (and everything else). I needed it because Ray Chandler spoke about “months and months of ‘them sleeping together” while even a perfunctory look at the timeline shows that they had no more than two and half months since Las Vegas up to the second half of June when “Michael stopped spending evenings in her home” according to June Chandler.
Even if Michael never went anywhere else (which he did – for ex. on May 5 he went to Atlanta with Lisa Maria Presley) and spent time with the Chandlers only it is definitely NOT ‘months and months’ as Ray Chandler says it in the interview.
He also speaks of Michael spending 30 days ‘running’ at June’s home. This is a LIE – she said in her testimony that “it was a week or two” (I wonder how these people never remember exactly how long Michael Jackson stayed in their home – I would if I were in their place) and after that it was on and off – so not every day and definitely not “30 days running”.
It is funny to see the way she spoke of those 30 days – she somewhat shily said that “Michael was invited to stay in her place in Santa Monica” after their trip to Monaco. WAS invited? By whom I wonder? Why beat about the bush and not say the way it really was – “I invited him there”? Or probably even “I implored him to stay with us”?
And as regards the wedding of June’s brother (some time in the month of June you say?) – I remember June Chandler saying in her testimony that the New York wedding was in SEPTEMBER – which could only be the September of 1993 – which is utterly ridiculous as the media frenzy had already started by then. And she says that Jordan “slept in Michael’s bed in September?”
Is it so difficult to remember the month when your brother was married? Or was it Ray (or Evan) Chandler who corrected the dates in the book to give it more cridibility?
Does it mean that ALL CHANDLERS ARE LIARS and THAT IS ALL THERE IS TO IT?
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David, I am sorry I always forget to look up the emails (everybody please excuse me!). Yes, I’ve found your post today and read a bit in the short moments I have during my working hours. Later I’ll give it a closer look – you are making a good point about the police speaking to Jordan after his statement and still not being able to bring any charges.
But you refer to the declaration as an “affidavit” repeating the most common misconception everybody has – while IT WASN’T AN AFFIDAVIT! They make it look like one by repeating this lie wherever possible, but it was NOT an affidavit! I remember Jackson’s lawyers even saying something to the effect that “Jordan has never made it”.
Unfortunately now I cannot find the source where I initially read about it. By the way MANY DOCUMENTS ARE GETTING ERASED from the internet now – Veritas Project and many other things I used to refer to are no longer available. It seems that positive information about Michael is unwelcome here. We should remember about this danger and if we find something really useful post the text IN FULL – here or in your own blogs, forums, PC, etc. – for the information NOT TO BE LOST.
David, I’ll try to make a joint post about that declaration of Jordan (and probably other things) – though this was not what I was planning to do these days. What are you doing to me? Twisting me round your little finger…
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Here’s more I found about Ray Chandler: http://site2.mjeol.com/mjeol-bullet/part-3-ray-chandler-provides-more-lies-to-dateline-mb-192-c.html
It seems he DID make direct claims that the police found child porn in Neverland in 1993. That’s how he was trying to discredit Geraldine Hughes.
“Chandler says of Hughess book, for example, The book contained numerous inaccuracies and omissions of fact. For instance, Hughes failed to mention that child pornography was found at Jacksons home in 1993.”
In fact, with this claim he only discredited himself, as we all know:
“This of course is a totally asinine statement. Possession of child pornography is a FEDERAL offense. It has been law since 1977, as referenced by The Protection of Children Against Sexual Exploitation Act of 1977 (see Pub. L. No. 95-225, 92 Stat. 7 (1978) (current version at 18 U.S.C.S. § 2251 (1999)). ).
If they would have found child porn at Jackson’s house in 1993, he would have been up on FEDERAL child porn charges, which he has never been. Finding child pornography in someones house is why we see R. Kelly in FEDERAL court in an orange jump suit.”
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I found the intreview where Lisa Marie says she and Michael already had “some romantic stuff going on a little” BEFORE the Chandler allegations.
Diane Sawyer: By the time Lisa Marie Presley married Michael Jackson, Jackson reportedly had been treated for addiction to painkillers. He was also under siege. He had been investigated for child molestation with a 12-year-old boy. Jackson settled a civil suit with the family reportedly for millions of dollars and his camp implied he was the victim of extortion.
Lisa Marie Presley: I was already friends with him, there was already some romantic stuff going on a little bit before that happened.
http://lisamarie.at.infoseek.co.jp/lisa-DianeSawyer2003.htm
And then there’s this part in the Chandler-Schwartz phone transript:
4 MR. CHANDLER: — discuss why it might
5 be harmful.
6 Suppose I’m right? I mean if Michael
7 loves [tape irregularity] Lisa at least want to
8 hear my opinion about why what’s going on could be
9 potentially harmful? If you love somebody, you
10 don’t want them to get hurt.
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@ Lynette
Of course that wasn’t a “love letter”. Michael was very affectionate with EVERYBODY. He wrote messages like this to people all the time! That doesn’t mean he was in love with them. Even in this letter to Jordan he writes twice that he loves Jordan’s mother – so if anything he expressed his love for June, not Jordan.
I think it’s very possible the Chandlers knew about Lisa Marie. Indeed there is a mention of a Lisa on the Schwartz/Chandler tape. Chandler says somewhere: “if Michael really loves (inaudible) Lisa”. It is not clear if the inaudible part would change the meaning of this sentence and it is also not clear if it is Miss Presley, but it’s possible. Lisa Marie herself said in one of her interviews (I will look it up later) that they were together BEFORE the accusations.
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Another inconsistency from ATG about the description . Evan/Ray wrote that they were in Larry’s office on December14th. He starts this by saying that Jordan had given a description of Michaels penis to the DA in September but they were in Larry’s office on December 14th going over the description? Anybody else confused yet? I think he meant that September is when they offered the description to the police don’t you?
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Not only that but did you seen he was holding hands with Brett not Jordan? This was in June after ( according to their story ) the abuse started. Everybody remember that the first time it happened was just minutes before the 1993 World Music Awards Ceremony in the hotel room. I have something to say about their silly little “love letter” we all know the one: Jordan I love you you are my cousin. I have such golden dreams and yadayada yada. Anyway heres the thing. Michael said I love you to 75000 people a night when he was on tour. He probably had such golden dreams for them and hoped that they would become giants in the industry of their choice. What I’m saying is it read like a greeting card or an extended autograph not a love letter. Why? How close are you guys to your cousins? He didn’t even say like a brother or a son he said a cousin for crying out loud. See how the media twisted everything he did. Oh I just watched a really old video on you tube with Tatianna Thumbtzen on Maury Povich in 1993 defending Michael against the allegations and the infamous security guards/ Neverland losers were there calling her a liar and Maury called Katherine and verified everything she said.They were trying to tell heer that they had never seen her and she did not have aromantic relationship with Michael it was very interesting. The quallity is bad but if I can find it I wil post the link to it.
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Lynette, it is true that Brett Barnes also accompanied Jordan to Disney world – there is a picture of them together:
http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/09/20/time-flies-when-youre-living-off-of-michael-jacksons-money/
(It’s the second picture)
Also there is a picture of Michael holding and kissing Jordan’s sister – but we all know he was only interested in Jordan!
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P.S they had 6 out of town trips with Michael not many, many trips as Evan describes in Ray’s book. They went on a day trip to Disneyland in March, Brett Barnes was along. They went to Las Vegas in April 1-4 and to Disneyworld in Florida for 3 days fromApril 22-24. The went to Monaco and EuroDisney in May9-13 and in June they went to New York for Junes brothers wedding possibly the 12-13 or the 19-20 and from New york to Disney world on the 23rd of June.They had their first trip to Neverland at the end of February and then again the next weekend. I’l keep working on it David if you want to help me . Helena I still have the list of Michaels philanthropic apearances from 1993 so I can throw that in as well . I can look online to see if I have video of Michael and Jordan at Disneyworld because I think that Brett Barnes was along on this one too if I’m not mistaken. Marie Barnes testified that the police became involved when they didn’t know where Brett was for a couple of days.
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On Page 15 ATG at the end of March they accompanied Michael on the first out of town trip to Las Vegas.This would actually not be March because because in the book also they say that next week on April 9th June called Evan and warned him that Michael had too much control over Jordie. Well for this to happen they would have had to go to Las Vegas on April 1-4th. I know this because I can push the calender on my Ipod back to 1993. Remember too that she said Jordie ws not missing any school. This is when they watched the Exorcist and Jordan got scared and slept in Michaels bed.By the way this is on the second or 3rd night of a four day trip. The first night was when they went to Cirque according to June and she was upset because she didn’t know where they were at 11:30. This is when he gave her the bracelet. It might be notable too that according to inside sources Michael and Lisa Marie were meeting in Las Vegas early in their relationship which would be around that time. I bet they knew about her. Well we know that they knew about her from the first few lines of the Schwartz/ Chandler tape.I just answered my own question how about that.David I bet if we put my calender and our books together we could probably come up with a more accurate example of how much time Michael and Jordan actually did spend together.
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@ Vindicate MJ:
Sorry, I don’t have the book with me anymore, so I can’t remember the exact dates that Ray gave for that trip.
As for Jordie, yes his inaccurate description of THE most prominent feature of MJ’s penis – circumcision (or lack thereof)- definitely nullifies their whole story. And even if he would have correctly GUESSED that MJ was not circumcised, that would not in and of itself mean the abuse occurred. (Although MJ haters would immediately pounce on that!) That’s why I’m glad that everyone here is focusing on the ENTIRE STORY FROM 1993-2010, and not just focusing on that one piece of evidence (which is what most haters do. ) They are too lazy to do any real research!
Speaking of the description, the reason that most haters think the description matched is because the media has consistently LIED and said that it did, and that MJ paid the settlement as hush money. Dimond and Orth have perpetuated this lie, as well as the Smoking Gun. But they never explain why MJ was not arrested!
From the Smoking Gun:
The boy’s information was so precise, he even pinpointed where the splotch fell while Jackson’s penis was erect, the length of the performer’s pubic hair, and that he was CIRCUMCISED.
It wasn’t long after law enforcement’s photo session that Jackson agreed to settle Chandler’s civil claim for north of $20 million.
It’s obvious that the Smoking Gun just parroted what they were told by Sneddon. And that statement implies that MJ paid the money as hush money, and of course they didn’t mention anything about the criminal case, and how they could have still cooperated.
BTW, have you had the chance to read the emails that I sent you? Is there someone else at this site that I could also email, or is it just you?
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David, thank you for the video. Our old dear Ray is just promoting his book – this is what he is doing here.
Since I’ve been keeping an eye on the Chanlders for some time now I see that this 1993 affair is just a huge pie of lies – layer upon layer of lies on top of each other. So you either have to uncover them one after another (which has been partially done here) or just cut them with one blow by saying that despite all those horror sex stories allegedly told by Jordan, he was mistaken in the crucial point – he said that Michael was circumcised which he was not -and this automatically nullifies EVERYTHING that Ray and Jordan, and June, and Evan ever said taken altogether.
If you look at their stories from this perspective you can just imagine yourselves talking to a scriptwriter of a Hollywood thriller – the result will be the same. IT IS A A PLOT OR A SCRIPT with the family members playing different roles.
Ray Chandler is playing the role of a ‘writer’. After studying lots of information I’ve come to the conclusion that ALL BOOKS (including those by Victor Guttierrez and Ray Chandler) were actually written by EVAN CHANDLER – only he couldn’t show himself as the real author because he didn’t want to break the confidential agreement openly and possibly lose the money as a result.
Just a small example regarding Victor Gutierrez: I’ve read in one comment that he could ‘barely speak English’ when someone saw him on TV, but on the other hand the style of the book is ‘brilliant’. These two statements don’t match each other, do they? I mean “barely speaking English’ and ‘the brilliant style’ of a book which was never translated but was originally written in English?
It clearly points to the author of the book being 1) a native speaker and 2) someone very well versed in writing – which fits the skills of Evan Chandler better than anybody else. And if you include here the exclusive family photos of drugged Jordan (which could be available only to Evan) then things are becoming a little clearer, aren’t they?
P.S. David, since you’ve read this ‘All that glitters’ trash could you say what date the author names for the Las Vegas trip? Jordan says they stayed there for a week in late February or so (in his talk with a psychiatrist), while June Chandler says they stayed 2 or 3 days in late March (in her testimony). Besides the fact that June’s version considerably shortens the period of their ‘staying together’ (not many, many months as Ray Chandler puts it) it also shows that there were numerous discrepancies in their stories.
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Lynette, I am not a conspiracy theorist either but in this particular case think there was some type of it – someone on the top encouraged harassment and those ‘at the bottom’ sensed it and realized that they had a free hand to say and do whatever they liked. This ‘hint from the top’ unleashed the worst in human beings – greediness, cruelty, uncontrollable desire to intrude into another person’s life and make a terrible mess there – and they attacked their prey as if they were a pack of wolves. COWARDS. It is so easy to attack someone when ‘you’re allowed’ to do that and you know that whatever you do you’ll get away with it.
I said from the very beginning that it was a kind of a mass psychosis. But NOW? Are the people so brainwashed that they cannot think on their own any longer? Isn’t it time for them to sober up? If they don’t come to their senses, no matter what we say here, no matter what proof of Michael’s innocence we find all will be in vain. And this is the most sad conclusion about it.
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Hey, since we’re on the topic of Ray Chandler, here’s an interview that he gave in Sept. 2004 when “All That Glitters” was released.
He mentions how he hasn’t had any contact with Evan or Jordie in years, which confirms that the bulk of the book was written and ready to be published in 1994, which is corroborated by Judith Regan’s claim that Ray was shopping for a book deal on behalf of Evan “before the ink was dry on the confidentiality agreement”.
He then mentions that his motivation for releasing the book was watching the Bashir documentary, and specifically watching Gavin hold hands and lean his head on MJ’s shoulder. Bashir wanted to create controversy and sensationalism by telling Gavin, prior to the interview, to hold MJ’s hand and place his head on his shoulder, so that it would look like they’re lovers. MJ had no way of knowing it would turn out like this. Mission accomplished, Bashir! (Aphrodite Jones confirmed this in an interview. BTW, she has ANOTHER interview scheduled for tomorrow 7pm-9pm EST. http://vmswebradio.com/id20.html)
Also, he states that Evan didn’t get suspicious about MJ’s behavior with Jordie until he walked in the room one night and Jordie had got in bed with MJ, and Evan found them spooning. But in the book, earlier that night Evan and Dr. Torbiner gave MJ a drug for his headache that made him woozy, and then Evan took advantage of MJ by asking him if he was gay, and of course MJ denied it, but did rattle off the names of other entertainers who were in the closet.
Overall, it was a weak interview because the host didn’t ask the TOUGH questions, like:
1. “Hey Raymond, what about that quote you gave to EW in 1995?”
2. “You mentioned that you haven’t spoken to Evan or Jordie in years. When exactly was this book written? How did you write it without their cooperation?”
3. “Why didn’t Evan and Jordie testify in the criminal case? And why did they file a civil lawsuit in the first place?”
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=643293n&tag=related;photovideo
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Yes because they still listen to people like Ray Chandler, Diane Dimond, Nacy Grace and other. It is sad that a child can’t express her grief publlicly for her father and have people believe her. Have you ever noticed whenever something good happened in Michaels llife and even following his death they pay someone to come out with another lie about him. The last one was when Sony annouced the new record deal that stupid Dr. Klein and his hack Jason Pfeiffer came out with Michael Jackson was my gay lover. If you look back over all of the allegations against Michael they will coincide with some positive accomplishment of Michaels. Just a couple of weeks ago when Dr. Murray was scheduled to be back in court is when they put out a stupid supposed interview with Joe that said he blamed Katherine for Michaels death. when yo ulook back at his arrest which he did not evenhave charges for so it should have been a false arrest it was the day his Number Ones came out. I think he was right, there are too many coincidences for it not to be some kind of massive conspiracy. If I was really a conspiracy theorist I would wonder if Evan Chandler was really dead considering it took someone 2 weeks to find him in an apartment complex and it was just days before the release of This Is It. I mean didn’t the neighbors smell him?
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Lynette, your observations are absolutely true. I don’t understand one thing – do you mean to say the public still believes all this crap about Michael Jackson people like Ray Chandler told about him? Now that so much true information has been uncovered after Michael’s death? My mind refuses to believe it. If this is the case this is quite a phenomenon and it is not Michael’s lifestyle which should be looked into, but the mass behavior of these people instead.
And it makes me desperate to hear that some allow themselves cynical remarks about Paris. What’s wrong with these people? Did they forget what decency is? And what is their heart made of? Of stone? Are they not human beings at all?
WHO IS ABUSING CHILDREN HERE?
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I will give you guys an example of what a parent’s true reaction is when someone hurts their child. When my daughter was 12 there was a mentally ill man that rode his bicycle around the neighborhood scaring the kids. They even nicknamed him Lurch. The local police and sheriff’s department knew of his behavior and said that he didn’t hurt the kids because he never touched them. One day my daughter was outside riding her bike before I got home from work which was usually about 30 minutes after her. He came by on his bike and said something to her that scared her enough to throw down her bike and run to the house and crawl through the dog door to get in because she didn’t wan to try to unlock the door. When I came home she was sobbing and scared. I called the sheriff and they basically told me that if he hadn’t touched her they couldn’t do anything to him. They said that she was scared but not hurt. I became angry and told them that SCARED IS HURT. Well any way I called my ex-husband and told him what happened and he got mad too. The guy that did this rode his bike everywhere and my ex-husband knew who he was. As a matter of fact he was always on the road riding his bike when my ex-husband was on his way home from work. One day about 2 weeks later the man was found injured in the ditch after someone had forced him off the rode on his bike. He was hurt and scared with minor injuries. He described the car but not very well and it sounded an awful lot like my ex- husbands car. When I heard this I asked my ex-husband if it was him and all he said was “It sounds like my car but they can’t prove it was my car”. Now that was how my ex-husband reacted to my daughter being scared and crying, anybody wonder what would have happened if he had touched her.?By the way they never did find the person that forced him off the road and he was placed in a hospital for his own safety after that.
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I know it is infuriating at the very least when you hear people like them say that he was a victim of child abuse and somehow link that to the type of abuse that they are talking about. First childhood victims of physical non sexual abuse do not grow up to commit sexual abuse they grow up to possibly commit physical abuse. If they do grow up to commit sexual abuse it is rare and you will almost always find out that it is generations of that type of abuse that is unreported in the family. If Michael had grown up to beat his children then they could link it to his childhood abuse but that is not what they are talking about. Michael loved his children, everyone who knew him as a father said he was the best father they had ever seen. Paris Jackson said it better than anyone else could when she said “I just wanted to say, ever since I was born, Daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. And I just wanted to say I love him – so much.” I believe her statement said everything that needed to be said about Michael Jackson’s character as far as children goes. This is the most exonerating piece of evidence out there but people were even cynical about her heartfelt good bye to the man she and her brothers loved above all others. Anyone who felt that way should be ashamed and do some serious soul searching to try to figure out what is wrong with THEM that they needed to twist the words of a little girl to create more salacious headlines. However the talking heads that suggested that it was staged also were the ones that “broke “the story that Michael Jackson was not their “real “father case in point Diane Dimond on CBS the Morning of July 10th or 11th of 2009 said “I was the one that broke the story that he is not the biological father of those children”. That right there should tell you the whole thing was made up and so was everything else she ever wrote about him.
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Incognito, Suzy – yes, child pornography found at Neverland IS AN OUTRAGEOUS LIE. But see how cunning Ray Chandler is – he says it is ‘accorrding to the Vanity Fair article’ that this thing was found. This way he delegates all the responsibility to the Vanity Fair while he remains innocent as a baby.
How do we know it is a lie? As you rightfully say – because if it had been found it would have been no problem to put the man behind bars IMMEDIATELY.
The logic is simple and icy – if he wasn’t put into prison and if NO CRIMINAL CHARGES WERE EVER MADE against him it means THERE WAS NEVER ANY CHILD PORN there.
By the way what is hard-core commercially produced child por-phy? Is there a thing like that at all? What a crazy thing to say – both for Ray Chandler and the Vanity Fair!
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@ Incognito
Yes, you can tell Ray Chandler is lying through his teeth. I cannot believe journalists never call these people out on such outragous comments! Like you said if at any time child pornography would have been found in Michael’s posession – either in 1993 or in 2003 – he would have been charged with that, regardless of if there was an accuser or not!
And does anybody really believe Sneddon would have missed the opportunity to show the child porn on court if he had it?
This statement alone should have been enough for people to see through the Chandlers and their lies!
Also the rest of his comment, about Garcetti, seems like just bla-bla and excuses.
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Helena,
Some people have so much nerve!
But like I said before: this is NOT the reaction of the uncle of a real abuse victim! As for the notion that they didn’t go to court because they felt sorry for Michael and his career: that’s BS, of course! If they felt sorry for Michael and his career then why did they make the accusations in first place? If they felt sorry for Michael and his career then why did they publish books like “All that glitters” and help to publish books like “Michael Jackson was my lover”? If they felt sorry for Michael and his career then why did Even seek the opportunity to release a record called “EvanStory”?
Based on their actions, neither Evan or Ray are the kind of people who are able to feel empathy for anybody, so Ray is phoney and hypocritical.
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“CHANDLER: Oh. Well, you know, the allegations became public in August of ’93. The district attorney never filed a charge or never intended to file a charge. The family was not asked to testify all through the year of ’93. A lawsuit was filed — they got civil lawyers. The civil lawyers said you cannot wait. We don’t know if the DA is going to file, if the DA isn’t going to file.
KING: Why didn’t the DA file, in your opinion?
CHANDLER: OK. I think there’s a number of reasons. But the main reason was in 1993, in Los Angeles, the district attorney was Gill Garceti (ph). Now, you know, I don’t want to fault Mr. Garcetti (ph) at all, someone quoted me as saying I did — I never did fault Mr. Garcetti (ph). But the reality of the situation was, he had lost several high profile trials — Rodney King, the first Menendez brothers trial. He had a situation where he had — within the first week they searched Michael’s ranch back then. They found, according to Morty North (ph) in the “Vanity Fair” article, hard-core commercially produced child pornography. They also had the statement of my nephew… ”
What an outrageous lie – if they found child pornography then that is enough to charge Michael with possessing child porn! It is a crime to possess such material – there is really no defence to it. No prosecutor would hesitate as it is a sure case.
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David, in his interview with Larry King http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0311/25/lkl.00.html Ray Chandler shed tears about Michael again:
KING: To your knowledge — by the way, when you heard about the recent development (2003 accusations), what were your first thoughts?
CHANDLER: Wasn’t surprise. And Michael Jackson is — you know this whole affair, what this is really about and which has not been talked about and the media doesn’t cover it, this is about child abuse. Not only Michael’s victims but Michael himself. Michael is a victim of child abuse, severe child abuse.
KING: When he was a kid?
CHANDLER: When he was a kid. And this is the ramifications.
KING: Product of it.
CHANDLER: Product of it. Society pays a huge price in the hundreds of thousands of abused children every year”.
This kind of conversation makes my blood boil – these are HYPOCRISY and LIES in their UTMOST DEGREE. I am going to make a post about Ray Chandler but here are just a couple of things:
– the main idea of people like Ray Chandler is to show that there was a pattern in Michael’s behavior and a reason for him ‘behaving like that’,
– all this soothing talk diverts our attention from the fact that there was actually NO behaviour he is referring to,
– it produces the impression of him (and the family) being compassionate to Michael and has various undercurrent meanings like: “we didn’t take it to a criminal court because we were sorry for him”, “we met him halfway because we understood he had his career to go on with”, “we actually like him and didn’t mean any harm”, etc.
THIS IS A WAY TO EXPLAIN WHY THEY DIDN’T TAKE THE CASE TO A CRIMINAL COURT! AND WHY THEY NEVER TESTIFIED!
They met him halfway? The actual reason why they didn’t testify was their lack of evidence and the fact that their lies would have fallen apart there had they gone to court. Ray Chandler is slandering Michael in this soothing way MORE THAN EVER!
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@ Lynette
Ray’s statement is completely laughable – if someone molested your son – you would want to put them in jail and throw away the key, not hope their career get’s back on track! What a joke – why didn’t any of those ‘journalists’ find this statement odd? In fact, why didn’t they find alot of things surrounding the Chandlers odd?
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@ Lynette
That’s a good find on Ray. I agree. That’s not the reaction of the uncle of a real abuse victim! Just like both Jordan’s and Evan’s reaction weren’t like that of an abuse victim/the father of an abuse victim. Instead they went up to MJ greating him with a hug when first meeting him after the accusations. (Why does this scene remind me of Judas betraying Jesus by hugging him?)
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@ Lynette
Here’s what I would ask Raymond if I had the chance:
Well gee Raymond, if MJ was really guilty, than why was it “hard” to come to grips with what was going on? Why is it “too bad” to see his career take a hit? Why do you all hope that he “gets it back”? Why don’t they hold malice in their hearts towards him? And why is MJ the “bigger victim of abuse”?
Here’s a link to the entire article:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,297591,00.html
Now, contrast the Chandlers to the families of 14 year old Amber Dubois and 17 year old Chelsea King. They were murdered by a sex offender named John Gardner, and he was convicted a few months ago. Their families were in court to give their Victim Impact Statements, where they got to tell Gardner EXACTLY what was on their mind. This is what the families of victims do! They don’t threaten to take legal action to AVOID going to court to confront their perpetrator!
Diane Dimond was present at the sentencing, and she wrote a column on it. She talks about how brave the families were to give those statements (which they were, and I’m not arguing about that), and she wonders if she would have had the courage to do the same if she was in that same situation.
True crime victims will stop at nothing to seek justice against their perpetrators, and would eagerly travel from the other side of the Earth to be in court to give their Victim Impact Statement.
But as I read this article, I couldn’t help but think about Jordie and Evan Chandler. Their lack of cooperation in prosecuting MJ in 1993 & 2005 doesn’t only speak volumes, but it SCREAMS volumes!
It’s just ironic that Diane rightfully praises the families in this article, but over the years she has continually DEFENDED Evan and Jordie’s lack of cooperation by saying they “wanted to avoid the media circus”, or some crap like that. She has never called them out for the cowards that they really are. What a hypocrite!
http://dianedimond.net/the-impact-of-victim-impact-statements/
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I have just a brief comment from good old Uncle Ray from 1995 . I have been looking ofr thsi for a long time and finally found it the other day. It was from Entrtainment weekly.
. In a June 16 1995 article in Entertainment Weekly, Chandler (Charmatz) is quoted as saying:
Charmatz says his brother and nephew bear Jackson no ill will: “They all loved him-that was why it was so hard to come to grips with what was going on. It’s too bad to see his career take the hit it did and we all hope he gets it back. They don’t hold any malice in their hearts toward Michael. I think they understand what’s happened in his life and how he’s an even bigger victim of abuse.”
Good old Uncle Ray was at it from the beginningand EXCUSE Me but do you actually feel this way about the person that committed these allegations. Oh and my favortie part tht nobody should forget that Tom Sneddon actually provided evidence of his own perjury when he submitted to the court his own Sworn Declaration that the photos matched acccording to him. then he wanted to show those photos in court . That man needed his head examined. The Grand jury would not indict Michael because of this reason . Gil Garcetti even went as far as to subpoena Katerine in April of 1994 to see if Michael had always been uncircumcised. Can you imagine beign called to be questioned about your sons foreskin?
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I know that the original article that actually says the difference is that “the boy” described Michael Jackson as circumcised and he was not was in one of the east coast majors and I saw in myself back in the day. It was posted the day after the settlement. I’ve tried the Washington Post and most of the New York newspapers I was wondering if it might not have been The Boston Herald because when the allegation first came out they went after Michael with a vengence and probably did it as a type of retraction. It also could have been in the Wall Street Journal which I haven’t tried yet either. I search for it when ever I get the chance and will keep looking until I find it and I will eventually.
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@ David
“For years we’ve been led to believe that the Chandlers just stopped cooperating on their own, but it seems that perhaps Sneddon & Garcetti realized that Jordie’s story was too weak?”
Maybe it was too weak, but then the case being too weak didn’t stop Sneddon in the Arvizo case either. So I’m thinking maybe Jordan even admitted to them it wasn’t true….
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@ David – Excellent point – don’t know why I missed it myself – how did the death threats stop Jordie from testifying in the criminal case but not in the civil case!!
@ Suzy – I agree, did she not think it was relevant to disclose this info about Evan. For a person who claims to want to know the truth – she never sets out both sides of the story.
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This is what Katherine Jackson said to the Daily Mirror:
“Many doubt that, because of the child molestation accusation falsely laid on him, but in truth it was just greedy people after money. The first child, Jordan Chandler, whose father accused Michael, ended up saying he regretted not getting a chance to say sorry to Michael. Then the father committed suicide – I think his conscience was bothering him.”
Also Jermaine also acknowledged in a speech that can be found on youtube that Jordan Chandler withdrew his allegations.
Do you think Jordan has spoken to the Jackson family or are they just relying on those rumours that he denied it?
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@ Lynette:
That’s great research! That Jet article was very informative! There was something that jumped out at me. It’s where Garcetti says that the criminal investigation is still ongoing:
Los Angeles District Attorney Gil Garcetti told reporters that despite the civil settlement, “the criminal investigation of singer Michael Jackson is ongoing and will not be affected by the announcement of the civil case settlement. The district attorney’s office is taking Mr. Feldman at his word that the alleged victim will be allowed to testify…”
Remember in Mesereau’s request to not allow Sneddon to obtain the details of the settlement to be used as evidence of MJ’s guilt in 2005, on Page 9, Line 16 through Page 10 line 4, it states that AS A RESULT OF JORDIE’S INTERVIEW, no criminal charges were filed. Garcetti asked Feldman to allow Jordie to cooperate in the above statement, and obviously Jordie was interviewed by someone (although it doesn’t say whether it was by LA or Santa Barbara authorities).
For years we’ve been led to believe that the Chandlers just stopped cooperating on their own, but it seems that perhaps Sneddon & Garcetti realized that Jordie’s story was too weak? And instead of just admitting it, they lied and said that they refused to cooperate, thus fueling the myth that they were “paid off”. Ray Chandler said that they didn’t testify in the criminal case because of “death threats” but there willing to testify in the civil case had MJ’s insurance carrier not forced him to settle!
Click to access 032205mjmemospprtobj.pdf
Can any of you guys try to dig up the January 1994 Reuters article that said that Jordie’s description did not match? That article has been quoted many times on MJ websites, but I’ve never seen the original. I couldn’t find it in the Reuters archive, so perhaps it has to be bought?
Here is a PDF of the January 1994 USA Today article! Notice how it’s listed on page 2 of the “Life” section instead of being on the FRONT PAGE!!!!!!
Click to access photos-may-contradict-michael-s-accuser-1994.pdf
@ Admin:
Yes, I’ll write up a summary of the Arvizo case. It’ll take a week or two, but it’ll be worth it when I’m done. I’m going to show that Sneddon maliciously prosecuted MJ, because many haters say “If MJ was so innocent, then why did he go to trial? If he was THAT innocent, then the cops would have caught all of those lies!” It went to trial because Sneddon & the media ENABLED those lies!
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@ Lynette
This is what J. Randy Taraborelli wrote on his Facebook on Evan’s death:
“I actually knew Evan Chandler. I met him several times in the 1990s. I had lots of secret meetings with Evan Chandler, trying to get to the bottom of what was going on. I was pretty young, sort of green and wish I had my present level of expertise to be able to have applied back then. I have stories about that guy that I have never published.
He was about as inconsistent as they come. He was so determined to get me on his side, I thought he was just a tad scary. If you read my book you sort of get how I felt — feel — about him. When [the book] came out he called me screaming at me for not just buying his story 100%. He actually threatened me, and I thought… okay, pal, now I know who you really are.”
The reason why I bring it up is because when I read this I thought: “OK Randy, but why do you talk about it only now?” Maybe if he had shed a light on Evan’s character in his book about MJ that would have made a difference in many people’s mind. But in his book he rather chose to be ambigious about the 1993 case and kept this information hidden (like Dimond kept hidden this info about Evan too)….
I realize that haters and skeptics would say: So what if Evan was crazy? That doesn’t mean MJ didn’t molest Jordan. Of course, it doesn’t directly mean that. However skeptics should at least feel skeptical about the 1993 charges when putting all the pieces of this puzzle together:
We know that June never witnessed any molestation (she said it in her testimony in 2005), we know that Jordan initially denied he was molested – until Evan didn’t start to suggest that and put him to sleep under suspicious circumstances. We also know that before that Jordan wanted to spend all his the time with Michael. (I don’t know, but I don’t think I would behave like that with my molester, especially at the age of 13, since a 13-year-old boy already knows what’s that is being done to him.)
We know that the first one who suggested MJ molests Jordan was not Jordan, but Evan. Knowing about Evan’s condition, his paranoia and all that, initially it was just his fixed idea, based on nothing really. (Remember: according to Ray Chandler the first time he met Michael he asked him if he was “f*cking” his son. He didn’t yet know Michael, and Jordan never complained to him, but the thought of molestation was already in his mind!) So how convenient is it that then all these crazy ideas of a crazy man turn into “reality”? I don’t know, but I don’t find it very likely. I find it a lot more likely that Evan was simply crazy and it was all in his mind and then he was trying to turn it into reality by manipulating Jordan and making the accusations.
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Here is a link to a 1994 JET interview regarding the sttlement and the allegations. It quotes Johnnie Cochran.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n15_v85/ai_14829572/?tag=content;col1
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After I got this response from DD I thought she was pathetic and mean, just plain mean if she knew all along that he was like that and never questioned the validity of the charges. She is a greedy and sick parasitic boil on the behind of mankind. There is a line in the Torah ( I am not Jewish but was told by a friend that is) that translates to: To save one life is to save the world entire. She sure does have a lot of explaining to do to her maker when she meets him.
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So does beating up 2 little old ladies and his wife. Nobody ever asks why June and Evan divorced in the first place how come? That might tell you an awful lot about his character as well. I was also thinking about the remark that someone made about how he seemed so sincere in his belief that Michael molested Jordan with the amount of emotion he had on those tapes.He never mentioned molestation but what he does become emotional about is Michael not talking to him anymore?Also the 1996 suit against Michael, Lisa Marie, ABC, Diane Sawyer and 300 other unnamed people was not about his son. Why would he think tht Michael was writing those songs about him instead of Jordan if he didn’t lie or believe that Michael thought HE had lied, not Jordan? He was the one that He thought Michael was calling a liar. He was pathetic.
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@ Lynette
I’ve heard somewhere too that the argument was caused by Jordie bringing Evan the wrong type of bread as well. I don’t think that’s all to it though. Maybe there was some underlying issue, like a previous argument or disagreement, and maybe Evan just blew up when he was brought the wrong bread.
But if there was no underlying issue, and Evan did all of that to Jordie SIMPLY FOR BUYING THE WRONG TYPE OF BREAD, than that doesn’t speak volumes about Evan’s character, it SCREAMS volumes!
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Through sources familiar with the family which have never been disclosed the reason for the confllict between them that day was that Jordan had brought home the wrong kind of bread? Also in ATG on page 71 Dave Schwartz defend his taping of Evan because he is afraid of Evan becoming physically violent in the meeting he was asking for. He bases this on the fact that June had told Dave that Evan had beat up Monique( his then wife), his own Mother and June’s mother. Theydon’t go on to deny either of the mothers but he Does describe hitting Monique in this way;June testified that she had heard that in January of 1992 an argument between Evan and Monique turned physical. Other than that 18 month old event,she knew of no other reason her son would not be safe with Evan. The foot note says Evan’s mother and Junes’s mother ,an angle of a woman, are deceased. May they rest in peace. Excuse me but hitting your wife 18 months ago still means you physically abuse her.I wonder what she would have to say about his behavior around then? He had a patten of violence. It would not be too far out of rational thought if that would have been part of the reason that Jordan chose to live with her following his fathers move to New York and cut all ties with him until he decided to give him another chance. Then look what happened. Evan Chandler had no respect for another human being he was a sociopath.
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@ David
Interesting that the media never really picked it up. Of course, because that sheds a true light on Evan’s character and that would make people wonder about the 1993 accusations as well – just like Janet Arvizo’s character made them wonder about the 2003 accusations.
I’d like to think that the subject of this conflict was that Jordan wanted to come forward and clear Michael’s name, but then it may be just wishful thinking. I mean, now Evan is dead, Michael is dead – so what stops Jordan now from coming forward and tell the truth? He could if he wanted. But he still hasn’t.
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When you read that document, one thing that should stand out to everyone is that Evan struck Jordie FROM BEHIND! Which means that it was NOT self-defense! It was attempted murder! It wasn’t enough for him to merely strike him FROM BEHIND, but then he MACED HIM in his EYES, and then tried to CHOKE HIM!
You wouldn’t do that another human being, let alone your own son, unless you were trying to kill them! Do you realize how hard it is to throw a 12 1/2 pound dumbbell at someone? Evan would have had to muster all of his strength, considering how weak he must have been due to the Gaucher’s Disease he suffered from. Jordie must have damn near been knocked unconscious by the blow to the head FROM BEHIND with the dumbbell, and then the mace surely disorientated him for a few minutes as he tried to regain his eyesight by rubbing away the mace FROM HIS EYES! And while Jordie was fighting the effects of the mace, Evan tried to choke him! It’s truly amazing that Jordie even survived!! I wonder how bad his injuries were?
Remember, Jordie emancipated himself in 1994 (because June confirmed that she hadn’t spoken to him in 11 years in 2005). He must have re-established contact with Evan (and possibly June) after the trial. Because his dad was “penniless” (per Ray Chandler in “All That Glitters”), Jordie moved in with him (or vice versa) since the document states that they were “members of the same household”. We know that Jordie provided financial support to Evan because this was mentioned in all of the articles written about Evan after he committed suicide.
What could have possibly motivated Evan to do this? His angry, rage filled, bi-polar, schizophrenic, psychotic state certainly played a factor! Remember, he also assaulted Dave Schwartz once or twice (per Schwartz’ 1994 lawsuit against Evan). Maybe Evan and Jordie were having a heart to heart father & son conversation one day, and Jordie said the following:
“You know Dad, I’ve been thinking about something. Michael Jackson was recently acquitted on all charges, yet the media is still treating him like a pedophile. Everyone compares his acquittal to OJ Simpson due to the biased media coverage, and I kinda feel guilty after all these years about how MJ’s career has declined so much because of the lies you made me tell to Dr. Richard Gardner after you and Dr. Torbiner drugged me with Sodium Amytal and implanted false memories inside of me. As soon as I realized what you did, I legally emancipated myself and went more than a decade without speaking to you or mom, but now that we’re in the news again due to MJ’s trial, I though we should all reconcile, and I forgive you.
You know, I really wanted to testify in his trial and help clear his name, but you told me I shouldn’t at all costs, so when Sneddon and the FBI came to ask me about testifying in the grand jury proceedings, I took your advice and threatened legal action to avoid having to show up in court. But I’m starting to really regret everything we’ve done to Michael, so I’m thinking about writing a tell-all book and going on Oprah to clear Michael’s name once and for all. I don’t care if his insurance carrier sues me for the money that they paid me in 1994, because I don’t deserve it anymore, and MJ can have it all back. What do you think about that, dad?”
Obviously there’s no way to ever know what made Evan utterly explode on Jordie, but that’s my take on it! LOL! This episode speaks to the very core of Evan’s character. After this, I believe Jordie stopped talking to and supporting Evan. In fact, there is another legal document floating around on the internet that I haven’t found yet, and it states that Evan had to hire the public defender to represent him. How pathetic!
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Thanks again, David, your findings are really great!
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Hey guys, here’s the legal document that was filed when Jordie obtained the permanent restraining order after Evan assaulted him in 2005! You can download and save it as a PDF file! You should check out that website, if you haven’t done so already.
Evan should have been nominated for Father of the Year, huh? LOL! First he drugs his son and forces him to lie to police, then he starts to write a book about his son’s molestation before he signs a confidentiality agreement promising not to do so, then he sues Sony records for a chance to record an album describing his son’s molestation, and to cap it all off he tries to MURDER his son by choking him after hitting him with a 12 pound dumbbell!
He really is a psychiatric case!
http://www.mjfiles.com/allegations/evan-chandler-attacks-jordi/
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I don’t care so much if Chandler was bipolar or had some other mental health issues. What really rattles me is that to this day the really horrible inaccurate reporting on this case continues (Fisher, Perone, Stasi). The lies and distortions are incredible, even though there is an overwhelming amount of accurate information on this case, which point very strongly towards Michael’s innocence. For example, in 2005 court documents were released. Among other revelations, when the D.A. presented the evidence to three grand juries and they refused to indict Jackson because the evidence wasn’t convincing, the authorities thought right then and there that it was extortion. The media NEVER mentions this and many other facts pointing to his innocence. At least Randy Taraborelli makes sense in what he has to say in his comments above.
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I’m sure Evan had a very unhappy life. Mental problems are terrible to live with and combined with Gauchers steadily growing worse too his distress is compounded. I get that. However, I’m not quite able to feel sorry for him yet. Maybe sometime in the future.
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