Lisa-Maria Presley vs. Victor Gutierrez. Break of dawn
Here is another piece of Victor Gutierrez’s unspeakable fiction. After Lynette sent to me some screenshots of the book they have to be retyped so I am making it in portions.
This time Victor Gutierrez “knowingly” discusses the relationship of two unique people who were very much in love with each other – Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley.
Victor Gutierrez naturally has an opinion of his own about their relationship. See what our expert on human relations has made of their great love which is still unending for LMP and which lasted for Michael probably until his dying day, – and which inspired him to such great songs like “Break of dawn” and “You are not alone” (even if the music was written by a different composer).
To me VG’s story is the essence of – no, not of hate – of CYNICISM and VULGARITY and BASENESS OF THOUGHT. And as such it is a very vivid and clear portrait of the author and his knowledgeable consultant to whom VG often refers:
The marriage of Jackson and Lisa Marie had the potential of creating favorable publicity for Jackson. It would make Jackson appear more wholesome, and reduce suspicion of his being a p. The couple, though, seemed to have fooled no one in the press or the public. They certainly did not fool the Judge who married them, Hugo Alvarez Perez. He explained that from the moment they asked him to perform the ceremony he realized that in was a “false” marriage. A lawyer who represented Jackson [Robert S.Kauffman] came to visit me weeks before the marriage to offer me the deal,” explained the Judge. “We met in the Ambassador Hotel, where the lawyer asked me to keep total silence regarding the details of the wedding”. (so what?)
While Jackson considered getting married on a plane, the wedding was done in the Judge’s own house, so that nobody would know it was occurring, and in that way there would be no journalists present. (If this was a fake marriage why would they keep it secret instead of making the most of it in the press? Could anyone explain to me this crazy logic, please?). It was obvious why Jackson didn’t want the press to see his marriage. According to the Judge, “Before I began to conduct the wedding, a witness that accompanied Lisa Marie, Eve Darling [married to the brother of Lisa Marie’s ex-husband], told me in front of the bride and groom that ‘No one is going to kiss here’. When I told this woman that it was a custom in this country for the bride and groom to kiss each other, she told me, ‘Fine, but his couple isn’t going to kiss’. (So he didn’t want the press to be present as he didn’t want to kiss his bride? Come on, Victor, this isn’t even funny…). The strange thing was that the bride and groom didn’t say anything. Darling then asked the Judge to make it as quick as possible and “to save the religious things and details for another occasion”.
The Judge was irritated by this sort of atmosphere at a wedding. (Michael was also disappointed, by the way). “I have married more than 300 couple to date,”the Judge said, and I can tell the difference between the false ones and the ones based on true feelings. But I had never seen a couple that was colder, had less feeling, and was more fake than this one”. (really?) The ceremony continued, and Jackson and Lisa Marie began laughing at what they were doing (it was indeed laughable for the most glamorous couple to be hiding this way) and “I asked them to be serious, but then I thought to myself that it was a ridiculous thing anyway,” Judge Alvarez explained. Upon terminating the ceremony, and at the Judge’s prodding, the bride and groom gave each other a quick kiss (nothing to satisfy the judge’s curiosity).
Judge Alvarez was also bothered by the fact that the bride lied to him. “When I asked Lisa Marie what her civil status was, she told me she was single. Days later, I was told that she had been divorced a few days back [May 3] on this same island.” According to Dominican Republic law, a woman must wait nine months after being divorced to get married for a second time (perfect reason not to disclose the marriage to the press). The law has a clause that says that a woman can get remarried and not wait the nine months only if she is pregnant. From there came the first rumor that Lisa Marie was pregnant with Jackson’s child, a rumor which was apparently circulated to avoid the technical annulment of the marriage (oh, they could have annulled it too if they had learned?)
The Judge noted that the couple made a mistake which could have cost them both millions. They were not advised by their lawyer in the Dominican Republic, Maunel Espinosa, to present a signed prenuptial agreement to the Judge before the marriage, so that the agreement would have validity under the laws of the island. As it turns out, the agreement was not timely delivered to the Judge. This meant that Lisa Marie had an interest in the money from Jackson’s new album “History”, and Jackson had an interest in the musical catalogue and inheritance left by Elvis Presley. If Jackson or Lisa Marie wanted to legally take the money or property of the other, it would have been possible. “They simply don’t know”, the Judge said, (they simply weren’t greedy, you fool!) “but I believe that now that I have said it they will realize this mistake, a huge mistake! They are both owners of each others’s property, and of future income”. (but all the judge’s and VG’s anticipation of a huge scandal was in vain).
Months after the wedding, Judge Alvarez was surprised to see Lisa Marie in the North American press proudly showing her wedding ring with its huge diamond. Upon seeing her photograph, the Judge laughed and said, “Lies! I have never seen a couple of bigger liars that these two. The wedding ring was a normal gold band. The one in the photograph has diamonds and was not the one I saw on the hands of that woman. I promise you I have never married a couple with more problems that this one”. (this diamond ring has really opened our eyes!)
Jackson and Lisa Marie began to make public appearances together.(Now read carefully please. Each word is a precious gem). The reason? We can imagine. The press had reported that Jackson had spent a weekend alone with a minor boy, Wade Robson, who was photographed getting in a limo which took him to Jackson’s ranch. Where was Lisa Marie? In her house more than 50 miles away living separately with her two children! On other occasions Lisa Marie was seen vacationing with her ex-husband.
The fact that Lisa Marie was romantic with her ex-husband and not with Jackson was becoming more obvious each day. The King of Pop continued to receive young boys at his ranch, while Lisa Marie enjoyed the company of her true love. (Bravo, Victor – we are really enjoying it!)
News of Jackson’s marriage to the daughter of Elvis Presley soon became known to all the world, including Jordie. Jordie could not believe what he was seeing on the TV. It was a shock for Jordie,” one of this friends commented. “He was resting on the bed, and while he was watching the TV he saw the image of Jackson and it caught his attention. It was about his friend’s marriage. He said he didn’t believe it. Michael hates women! He made me learn some phrases about how to hate women. Jordie thinks Michael got married so he could pass for a man [heterosexual]. No one was convinced, least of all his ex-lover”.
Now that you’ve read it you’ll probably agree with me that the above is a great monument to human cynicism and incredibly low and vulgar mentality – so low and so vulgar that I am lost for words. So let Lisa Maria Presley speak instead. On the day Michael Jackson died she wrote in her blog the following “cold” words from a “liar” about the love with Michael Jackson which “never existed” according to our “great human relations expert”:
June 26, 2009
….14 years later I am sitting here watching on the news an ambulance leaves the driveway of his home, the big gates, the crowds outside the gates, the coverage, the crowds outside the hospital, the Cause of death and what may have led up to it and the memory of this conversation hit me, as did the unstoppable tears.
A predicted ending by him, by loved ones and by me, but what I didn’t predict was how much it was going to hurt when it finally happened.
The person I failed to help is being transferred right now to the LA County Coroners office for his Autopsy.
All of my indifference and detachment that I worked so hard to achieve over the years has just gone into the bowels of hell and right now I am gutted.
I am going to say now what I have never said before because I want the truth out there for once.
Our relationship was not “a sham” as is being reported in the press. It was an unusual relationship yes, where two unusual people who did not live or know a “Normal life” found a connection, perhaps with some suspect timing on his part.
Nonetheless, I do believe he loved me as much as he could love anyone and I loved him very much.
[ ] The hardest decision I have ever had to make, which was to walk away and let his fate have him, even though I desperately loved him and tried to stop or reverse it somehow.
After the Divorce, I spent a few years obsessing about him and what I could have done different, in regret.
Then I spent some angry years at the whole situation.
At some point, I truly became Indifferent, until now.
As I sit here overwhelmed with sadness, reflection and confusion at what was my biggest failure to date, watching on the news almost play by play The exact Scenario I saw happen on August 16th, 1977 happening again right now with Michael (A sight I never wanted to see again) just as he predicted, I am truly, truly gutted.
Any ill experience or words I have felt towards him in the past has just died inside of me along with him.
He was an amazing person and I am lucky to have gotten as close to him as I did and to have had the many experiences and years that we had together.
I desperately hope that he can be relieved from his pain, pressure and turmoil now.
He deserves to be free from all of that and I hope he is in a better place or will be. []
I really needed to say this right now, thanks for listening.
LMP
I am pretty sure that the girl Michael is singing about in his ‘Break of dawn’ song is Lisa-Marie Presley because it was only about her and Michael that people were saying that “it was just a game”. However for this young couple it was real:
Hold my hand, feel the touch of your body cling to mine
You and me, makin’ love all the way through another night
I remember you and I walking though the park at night
Kiss and touch, nothing much, let it blow just touch and go
Love me more, never leave me alone by house of love
People talk, people say what we have is just a game
Oh, I’ll never let you go, come here girl
Just got to make sweet love ‘til the break of dawn
I don’t want the sun to shine I wanna make love
Just this magic in your eyes and in my heart
I don’t know what I’m gonna do I can’t stop lovin’ you
I won’t stop ‘til break of dawn makin’ love
Hold my hand, feel the sweat, yes you’ve got me nervous yet
Let me groove, let me soothe, let me take you on a cruise
There’s imagination I bet you’ve never been there before
Have you ever wanted to dream about those places you’ve never know
Break of dawn, there’s no sun up in the sky
Break of dawn, I can see it in your eyes
Break of dawn, girl you got to understand
It’s the way that I love you, let me show you I’m your man
Break of dawn
Let’s not wait, the sun is out, let’s get up and let’s get out
It’s the day, a brand new day, let’s both go outside and play
Let us walk down the park, makin’ love ‘til it’s dark
Let me move, let me soothe, ‘til the break of dawn and you know it’s true, oh
For those who are still in doubt about ‘Break of dawn’ here is another great song ‘You are not alone’ which was definitely about Lisa Marie, even though it was written by R.Kelly.
Wiki says it was recorded in November 1994, or at the time when Michael already started having difficulties in his personal life with LMP:
The R&B ballad’s composition has been attributed by R. Kelly in response to difficult times in his personal life. He then forwarded a bare demo tape to Jackson, who liked the song and decided to produce it with Kelly. Jackson’s interest in the song was also linked to recent events in his personal life.
Jackson explained that he instantly liked the song, but listened to it twice before making his final decision. Although the song was written by Kelly, Jackson was adamant that the production should be a collaborative effort amongst the two musicians. The tape sent to him had no harmony or modulations, so Jackson added a choir in the final portion and added a sense of climax and structure to the final piece”
And his book “SoulaCoaster” R.Kelly explained why Michael instantly liked his song which was both about love and separation. Michael said that Kelly captured his feelings beautifully and wouldn’t change a single thing in the song. Meaning the lyrics of course and not its musical arrangement as this was what Michael did indeed change.
R.Kelly recalls about it:
I said, “I’m just glad you like the song.”
“I don’t like it, Rob. I love it. I don’t want to change one thing. I want to sing it just the way you wrote it. You captured me beautifully. That’s the reason I came here. We can get started just as soon as I do my vocal warm-ups.”
“If you excuse me for a minute,” I said, “I’ll be right back.”
I walked to the bathroom and just fell out on the floor. I broke down and cried. It wasn’t that Michael Jackson was singing my song; it was that Michael had felt how I’d caught his spirit.
Knowing that this great song was so close to Michael’s own feelings here is the song and the lyrics to reflect on:
…Oh whisper three words and I’ll come runnin’
And I, and girl you know that I’ll be there, I’ll be there
You are not alone, for I am here with you
Though you’re far away, I am here to stay
You are not alone, for I am here with you
Though we’re far apart, you’re always in my heart
UPDATED October, 4, 2010
Hi it is Lyn, I am going to add part of an article here that you will find interesting too. I seems that birds of a feather really do flock together. Another not very surprising revelation is that Evan was so convinced that Michael and Lisa Marie got married just to make him look bad he swore to it under oath. Really( I can’t help how incredibly stupid this man was I’m just showing you) in his deposition for his 1996 case against Michael (about further $60 millions for the interview with D.Sawyer and History album) he actually said their marriage was a sham to make HIM look bad,
‘Victim’s’ dad calls Michael’s marriage a sham: Wed Presley to deflect molestation allegations
Date: August 14, 2002 Publication: New Pittsburgh Courier
Just weeks after his verbal rant against Sony Music and its CEO, Tommy Mottola, Michael Jackson’s 9-year-old child molestation charges have come back to haunt him after new sealed court papers were made public in California.
In the 1996 documents, alleged victim Jordy Chandler’s dad accuses the pop star of marrying Lisa-Marie Presley just to distance himself from the 1993 scandal.
Evan Chandler claims Jackson, who turns 44 Aug. 29, promised Presley a percentage of the profits of his “HISstory” album if she agreed to provide him with a much-needed publicity boost after the scandal–by marrying him.
After the wedding, the famous couple kissed passionately before millions of viewers during the 1994 “MTV Music Video Awards.”
Chandler claims the marriage was part of a master plan to make it appear that his son, who was 13 when his father pressed charges, had been lying, and to create public sympathy for Jackson.( OH NO not the Dreaded Master Plan everybody run)
Chandler had already won a $15 million out-of-court settlement from Jackson, but claimed the Lisa-Marie `sham’ marriage helped turn him and his family into targets for angry fans, who felt sure their hero’s romance with Elvis’ daughter was a confirmation of his innocence.
Chandler’s 1996 claims were dismissed in court by a three-man arbitration panel.
Copyright New Pittsburgh Courier Feb 25-Mar 3, 2009
Vindicating Michael 
W, one of those who read the book says that “The family moved several times in two years, California to Bahrain, then to Ireland, then to Las Vegas, then to Virginia, then back to Las Vegas, then back to California”. As far as I remember the last move from Las Vegas to Los Angeles took place sometime in autumn 2008 – possibly end of August-September 2008. But the exact time still needs to be clarified.
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The reviews of the book are very positive and we can get a lot of information about it from the reviews alone. What’s extremely important is that the public finally sees Michael the human being, the real man and not the caricature portrayed by the media, and learns to sympathize with him and understand the unique challenges he had to face and cope with. Here are some reviews from the Amazon site:
Susan
When you first see a book about Michael Jackson, you think “all right, who wants to tell ridiculous stories to make money off him now?” But this book is the opposite of that. It’s as if the men telling this story are actually still protective of Michael Jackson, and want to clarify the hype by letting you in on the side of MJ that was real – a man who desperately just wanted to focus on his children and being a father but was surrounded by people who wanted a piece of him. The story is told thoughtfully, and it’s clear these men are not the kind you’d see on tabloids selling “Wacko-Jacko” stories.
The most interesting part of all of this was just how isolated MJ was. At one point, you read about him going into a club that was playing his music. The club owners did not know he was there- it was just genuinely playing for people to dance to. MJ’s reply was “They still play my music?” Wow. He was the last to know how much we all loved his music.
If you are a TRUE FAN, this book is for you.
In the KNOW “becuz I know!” (USA)
I thoroughly enjoyed reading this book am more impressed at how the authors stayed steadfast to Michael Jackson the man rather than the KOP [King of Pop]. while I was concerned that confidential stories would be revealed, the book was respectful to both MJ and the children.
In the middle of the book I got lost in the stories of an ordinary Father and everyday guy then my emotions surfaced when reminded of who the story is about and I thought to myself, “What did fame do to this gentle, talented and loving man’s life?”
Finally a candid, honest and brilliant book that tenderly shows the world the man behind the King Of Pop! This is a must read for life long fans or new posthumous fans alike. Hats off to Mr Whitfield, Mr Beard and Mr Colby on a beautiful addition to anyone’s Collection.
Mariana
I bought this today and devoured it in a few hours. I have tears in my eyes as I’m finishing the book and we all know how the story ends and it’s heartbreaking, but it offers a glimpse into the turmoil that was his life.
I felt Bill and Javon gave their true account of what happened and as fans of MJ themselves, it is easy to relate and try to place yourself in that situation and wonder what one would do. If you love MJ and have been wondering “why” he did the things he did and most “normal” people may not, this may provide some answers or at least insight into the psyche of the greatest entertainers that ever lived.
Sirosh Yulia (Ukraine)
I have just finished reading it, and although I love the way it’s written, I can say that it left me with a heavy heart. Because Michael’s life was so difficult and painful, and nobody seemed to be there for him. I’ve been his fan for many years, and I’ve read lots of books about Michael. This book doesn’t have much information I did not know before, yet it is written with the kind of affection and warmth that gets right through to you. You can feel desperation of these two guys who were left practically alone to deal with everything that was going on. At times they did not even get paid, and they could not just turn around and walk away because they could not leave Michael and his children unassisted and unprotected, period. There would be nobody to step in. And I want to thank them for that. For being there even when things got bad. Not too professional to get so emotional about a client? Well, I don’t care. Seeing the way Michael’s life was back then, it makes you feel sympathy for the man. Makes you less judgmental. Less biased. And it helps you understand Michael and the way he was a little better.
As for personal information, I could not find anything that would disturb me. All the stories involving children are delivered tactfully. Although one of Michael’s lady friends was named by her real name in the end, and I don’t think that was appropriate, they should have stuck to using their code names. In all the rest – I love the book. It’s about Michael the man, and not about Michael the King of Pop. Precious to anyone who got tired of constant criticism aimed at him. Bittersweet. It makes me slightly happier to know he did enjoy his time with his kids. At least, he could have that much.
Sara
Start-to-finish, I could hardly put this book down. Like so many of us, I grew up listening to Michael Jackson’s brilliant music, but I had a very thin grasp of the man behind it–save for feeling a tremendous amount of sadness that the life he led seemed so fraught. This well-researched book paints a rich and thoughtful picture, anchored in facts rather than speculations, and the individual that emerges is truly extraordinary–a caring and responsible father, an authentic artist, and a deeply intelligent individual. So many of Michael Jackson’s seemingly irrational behaviors made more sense when the context was filled in. I was really impressed with Bill and Javon’s respectful and insightful observations, and the story of the friendship that emerged among these three men. From the quality of the writing to the professional way the story was presented, this is a serious book. Also, a touching, meaningful, and entirely gripping one. For anyone with even the slightest twitch of curiosity about this true cultural icon, I’d urge you to pick up this great read.
Tahkyia Willis
This book is a great look from the point of view of the men trusted to protect Michael Jackson in his final days. It offers stories that will make you smile, laugh, and cry. After reading their stories I was saddened by the loneliness experienced by Michael towards the end of his life. I think these guys deserve a huge pat on the back for all they put up with regarding those in charge of Michael’s finances and for never really turning their backs on him. They showed a great amount of empathy. I recommend this book to any Michael Jackson fan that isn’t looking for a sugar coated version of events. This is raw and a seriously good read.
Lucas Goldstein “Luke Goldstein”
Stepping through the door of a biography like this is always an internal struggle. Michael Jackson is one of the most famous and infamous people in modern history. Through the deluge of media coverage of his life, the public can easily fall into a trap of believing they have heard it all, know it all, and there’s nothing more to learn. Minds are made up and buried in the concrete foundation of pop culture history. In order to dive into a book like this, you really must let preconceived notions go and see where the story takes you. Trust me, it’s not what you’d expect.
‘Remember the Time: Protecting Michael Jackson in His Final Days’ is a near day-to-day account of the pop icon’s life told from the perspective of his two personal bodyguards. Bill and Javon fell into the post randomly and with no warning of what it would do to their lives, but they not only stepped up to the plate, they became protective of the person instead of just the “client.” Slipping into this job was more than just “once in a lifetime,” it was “once in an era.” It’s hard work in a position like this, to be so close with someone every single day, and not develop personal feelings about them, whether good or bad. For Bill and Javon, they figured it was time to let everyone else know the side of Michael Jackson only they had access to.
Right off the bat they are honest about where they are coming from:
“We have tried our best to strike a balance between the need for honesty and our obligation to secrecy.”
So you do need to read their words with a level of scrutiny in regards to what they are not saying, but their tone throughout pulls no punches when talking about the faults and accolades of Michael Jackson. The first thing to stand out was the utter chaos that surrounded the Jackson family dynamic, or the complete lack of it. According to Bill and Javon, only Michael’s mother was allowed to show up without an appointment. Everyone else was stopped at the gate of whatever house he was living at. The chilly reception was not often met with respect and calmness.
Michael was permanently isolated, by choice and by circumstance. He could not go out with his family without being mobbed and creating an instant safety hazard, not only for his kids, but everyone in the nearby area. Jackson and his kids lived like lavish hermits, bouncing gypsy-like from mansion to mansion, some of which looked great and lavish from the outside, but could lack the basic necessities like running water. He was at the same moment one of the richest people around, yet constantly buried in debt from out of control spending and an unending deluge of expensive lawsuits.
That was another constant in Michael Jackson’s life that his bodyguards saw all too frequently; the vultures. Once anyone amasses a large amount of money you can be assured the vultures (I refuse to call them “people”) fly out of the shadows and do whatever they can to snatch their piece of the pie. Jackson had little to no clue what was happening around him, even deals that were being made in his own name. At one point there were three people running around the world claiming they were his acting manager. During most of his career his “managers” did anything but. It was a perfect recipe for fraud and deception.
Throughout all of this, Bill and Javon did their best to earn his trust and protect the kids from the insanity of The King of Pop’s world. Even when they went months without being paid due to managerial negligence or new vultures swooping in and realizing they could not be bought. They stuck with Michael for far longer than many people would and they did it because they honestly cared. There are likely many who felt they had Jackson’s best interests at heart, but it’s hard to see the truth through the cash-green haze.
For those wanting to find out if Bill and Javon know the truth behind the accusations of child molestation, you won’t find it here. They do mention that they don’t believe it happened, but they offer no proof other than their own impression of the man. In the brief sections where the two cases are talked about it is pointed out that Jackson was never convicted of anything (the first case settled out of court and the second Jackson was fully acquitted by the jury). No matter what the truth is, Michael Jackson never recovered from the scandal, physically or emotionally. His faith in the world was crushed, equal to the disappointment and disgust of those who still believe he was guilty.
The chilliest fact in the book has to be that Dr. Conrad Murray, later convicted for administering the deadly dose of sleeping aid that killed Michael Jackson, originally met him when he was summoned to Jackson’s mansion to treat Paris (Michael’s daughter) for slight cold. How things might have been different if another doctor was reached instead.
‘Remember the Time’ is a terrifically engaging first hand account of the last two years of Michael Jackson’s life, told by those closest to him. If you can leave the accusations and trials off to the side (since this book is not meant to convince you either way of his innocence), you will see the shattered mirror of fame and the loneliness that comes with being loved by everyone.
Patricia Faulhaber
Two of Michael Jackson’s bodyguards, Bill Whitfield and Javon Beard, have written a book filled with amazing insights into the last two and half years of the lives of Jackson and his children.
They each take turns writing their own thoughts about different situations. Whitfield started as Jackson’s bodyguard in December of 2006 and worked for him until his death in June, 2009. Beard started shortly after Whitfield. The two wanted to write the book to let the world see a different side of Jackson’s life.
During most of their service time, Jackson was in serious financial trouble and was traveling from city to city and hotel to hotel or rented home to rented home. Whitfeild writes about how he had to pay for iPhones for Jackson and Jackson’s mother because his credit was so bad. Whitfield and Beard were with Jackson 24/7. They gave up their own family life to serve Jackson and his family. There were times toward the end of their story that they both went without pay for months putting their own financial status in jeopardy.
The reader gets the sense this was more of a mission for them and less of a job. They both felt they needed to be there for Jackson and his kids. With all of the people coming and going in their lives, the two believed they were there to provide some form of normalcy and routine.
The authors relate a number of stories about Jackson including his need to ride in his own SUVs for security reasons. They also write about Jackson’s abandonment of his ranch, Neverland. They include stories about some of Jackson’s obsessions such as checking the locks on the doors throughout the night.
They also write about Jackson’s relationship with his family. They write about the first time they met Dr. Conrad Murray when he came to the house to help one of the kids who was sick. There are also stories about Jackson’s fans and the relationship he had with them.
The stories are firsthand and show the reader how the most recognized person in the world tried to live a decent life and provide his kids a life of privilege while at the same time infuse some form of normalcy. The authors write about how much the kids loved their father and how much they enjoyed being with him.
The book is well written. While they do write about the child molestation trials that Jackson endured, they don’t discuss the rumored drug use until the end of the book. They also don’t write about the plastic surgeries.
They did not experience most of the other controversies surrounding his early life and career that lead Jackson to be in
the condition he was in when they joined his security team. The authors have found the seemingly positive sides of Jackson’s life during the time they served him and that’s what they’ve written about.
Amazon Customer “envycat” (aberdeen, MD) –
I loved this book, I couldn’t put it down. Gives a different view of Jackson, I recommend everyone to read this even nonfans.
June NYCGAL
Michael’s life post 2005 trial is not well documented and so I was eagerly anticipating hearing a first-hand account from these bodyguards. And they did not disappoint. For those looking for a continuation of tabloid media’s feeding frenzy, go elsewhere. Although these men readily admit to being Michael Jackson fans, there was nothing fawning or condescending in interactions with him and his three children. They were paid to protect the family during a period of great stress in Michael’s life, as he was consistently concerned for his life and the lives of his children due to many credible threats against him by those who, despite his acquittal, considered him a criminal. The family moved several times in two years, California to Bahrain, then to Ireland, then to Las Vegas, then to Virginia, then back to Las Vegas, then back to California. Mr. Whitfield and Mr. Beard were by their side through it all. They stayed through long periods of nonpayment for services (caused by mismanagement of Michael’s finances by so-called “managers”, continued unrelenting legal problems, attorneys fees and the usual hangers on).
The book is replete with great stories of their interactions with Michael’s three children. Both men being fathers themselves very well understood the unique situation Michael was faced with, i.e., not being able to participate in the everyday lives of his kids, such as zoo outings, movies, shopping, just playing in parks, which were handled either by nannies accompanying them or one of the bodyguards. Michael yearned for “normalcy” with his kids, a goal repeatedly denied to him by media and some overzealous fans. But Michael loved his fans; this is pointed out over and over by the bodyguards.
For those who say this book is just another attempt to capitalize on Michael’s name and fame, I would disagree. Michael Jackson trusted no one, not even his extended family, in the last several years of his life. The fact that Whitfield and Beard were an integral part of those years demonstrates that he trusted them because if he did not, as he did with many others, he would have arranged for their departure from his employment. And so I trust their version of events during these years.
During the runup to This Is It, for reasons unknown to Whitfield and Beard, other bodyguards were brought in. Whitfield and Beard were to join Michael Jackson and his family in London when the Tour kicked off. About a week before June 25, 2009, Michael called and asked them to come to Los Angeles. However, because his request did not seem urgent, and with their own family commitments, they could not make the adjustment in scheduling and thus were not present when he passed. Their shock and sadness was overwhelming.
There were times when they questioned why they stayed on. Michael was complex, impulsive, and unable to confront persons who wronged him. His friends were few and his family, except for his mother, never showed up unless it was to make demands on him. These men were his gatekeepers. The bodyguards recount only one or two times when Michael’s actions appeared somewhat off, causing them to question his “condition”. Dr. Murray showed up only several times over those years to treat the kids, was gone in an hour and never spent a night.
This is a loving and respectful accounting which I recommend to all who, like myself, wanted to know more about Michael Jackson, the man and father, otherwise known as the King of Pop. You will not be disappointed.
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Of course the bodyguards tell the truth. LaPerruque was never even asked questions about women.
And his most time with Michael was 2001-2004. The second period was the later part of 2007 and some 2008. His duties as far as I remember were required only when Michael was going on a trip while the bodyguards were always there.
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When exactly did Michael move from Las Vegas to LA ? He was in good enough shape at
that time. When he went to London with Randy Phillips he was already shaken up, I mean inside (and out By Randy Phillips).
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Interesting that Mike LaPerruque was with Michael around almost the same time he was with the three bodyguards and says he saw no women. Who told the truth? Unless he wasn’t there when the girls were present.
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Another good review of the book:
http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/the-bodyguards-on-remember-the-time-protecting-michael-jackson-in-his-final-days/
An excerpt:
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“But the time in Las Vegas was an important time in Michael’s life, a lot of things happened when he came back to the US.” – Susannerb
Susanne, I think it was a very important period in Michael’s life because this was what preceded his final venture with AEG and we absolutely need to know Michael’s frame of mind and what was happening to him at that time.
Jack Wishna who actually invited Michael back into the US shared with us some of his impressions about that period but he always stopped short at saying it all. His comments were always something like “He arrived looking the great Michael Jackson I knew but then this madness started”. By the madness he evidently meant the media and the public, Michael’s managers and also the family. Interviewers always asked him about drugs and Wishna consistently said that he never saw any and never saw Michael under their influence. He just said that Michael was getting more and more frail. I always wondered what was standing behind Wishna’s cryptic comments. Now we will probably learn at least part of it.
“here is another link with some excerpts from the book: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2014/06/michael_jackson_his_personal_security_guards_describe_the_king_of_pop_s.html“
Very interesting. After Randy Jackson’s escapade on the day of Liz Taylor’s party and Michael not going there after getting ready to it for two weeks, I won’t be surprised if in the next three days when Michael didn’t leave the house he did take something for sedation. Even the bodyguards were shocked and frustrated by what happened, so how much bigger was Michael’s frustration?
Randy Jackson is not a bad guy and he helped Michael a lot during the trial but his temper nullifies all the good he is doing. And he absolutely doesn’t understand that his own behaviour could be a reason for Michael seeking a sedative (as I suppose) which is why the family arose at Michael’s door two weeks later – evidently for an “intervention” as I remember it from the trial.
How very nice. First some of them turn their dear brother’s life upside down and then they come back in order to “save” him. Only close relatives are capable of inflicting stinging wounds like that.
I can’t help copying the excerpt here:
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As regards Michael’s finances I also need to say that there may be two lines of thinking here which cannot be mingled with each other – it is either the first variant or the second (but can’t be both):
1) The first variant is that Michael’s financial affairs were in disarray – he had assets which he didn’t want to part with but had little or no cash. This lack of ready money for buying the house was the argument Tohme, Barrack and AEG used in order to force him into making those concerts (which killed him in the long run).
In the light of the recent IRS claims to the Estate it means that if the situation was that bad the present IRS claim for extra $700 mln. is all wrong – in their papers the Estate sprang from the situation the way it was in 2009 and shouldn’t pay now.
2) The second variant is that all the media and bodyguards’ talk about Michael’s not having ready cash is sheer nonsense or a grave exaggeration. If this is the case, it means that all those advisors (Tohme, Barrack and AEG) lured Michael into 50 concerts by deception and fraud. Or they were also deceived by the fraudulent figures provided to them by Eric Briggs’ company which was the one that was assessing Michael’s finances.
The same figures were provided by Eric Briggs to the Estate after Michael’s death on the basis of which they paid to the IRS. If the figures were indeed incorrect the Estate executors were misguided but will probably have to pay the $700mln demanded of them, unless Eric Brigg’s company is found responsible for the fraud (?)
So either Michael had trouble with raising cash and the Estate executors were right in estimating his image low and the IRS claim is ridiculous, or all this talk about Michael’s financial problems is lies, the image should have been estimated much higher considering the opportunities open to MJ at the time and the Estate will be required to pay.
It can’t be both or selective, so please be consistent in adhering to either of the variants.
To be frank, in circumstances like these I would even suspect the Estate of encouraging a book in support of their position and saying that Michael indeed had financial trouble. However the bodyguards always said it, even before the IRS claim arose. Their statements to this effect are recorded in Karen Moriarty’s book (Defending a King) which was initially to be written together with the bodyguards but later their ways parted.
So the bodyguards always said it and each of us can decide for themselves whether to believe them or not. The only thing I am asking for is to please be consistent.
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Even if they say it he doesn’t look like a fool – he looks like a man who was so tired of life and what the world did to him that he shifted all his finances to his advisors hoping they would properly do their job for the money he was paying them – in order to be able to enjoy the shreds of private life that were still left to him.
The media naturally tried to turn the words of the bodyguards into another nasty sensation “Michael Jackson’s credit was so bad that his iPhone had to be set up under another name”, but this time some of the comments of ordinary readers came as a nice surprise to me as they are the first signs of people beginning to understand what Michael’s life was really like:
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After reading as much as I’ve read about Michael and his last days I agree – it wasn’t one person (like Murray or Tohme) or one company (like AEG). It was indeed everything and everyone.
Everyone had his own misconception about Michael and everyone did his part. Some spread stories about Michael being an addict, others believed them and thought that slapping in the face would sober him up and he should be placed in a straight jacket to control his “addiction”. All of them were rushing forward to stage “interventions” while what he really needed was to be trusted and loved, and have a chance to prepare for the tour the way he wanted to.
He needed quiet, comfort and encouragement but instead got whipping up, scorn and mistrust. And everyone demanded something of him. And no one really had any regard for his wishes or had his best interests at heart. To a varied degree this was a pattern with almost everyone – except Katherine, Michael’s children and some choicest friends. The bodyguards name the Cascios’ house as the only place where Michael felt he was safe.
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What is really indefensible is what you (and Joe Jackson) are claiming – that Michael was an addict. He wasn’t. And Joe Jackson who had not met his son for several years knew nothing about him. NOTHING!
Joe Jackson was repeating the words of Terry Harvey and Leonard Rowe only. Harvey saw Michael several times and formed an impression that he was under the influence of something – while Michael’s lack of energy or drowsiness could be the result of anything, just anything – depression, insomnia, a benzodiazepine pill Murray had given him the previous night, it could even be the result of a sleepless night spent with a woman prior to that. Yes, even that.
But this scumbag Terry Harvey knew only one answer to all that – drugs!!! And Joe Jackson knew no more about Michael than this scumbag Harvey was saying to him, because he himself had not seen Michael for a very long time.
It was Terry Harvey as Joe Jackson’s “friend” who was spreading about Michael horrendous stories – that he was taking narcotics and he even said which ones, while none of them were ever found in Michael’s body! And it was his words that all those tabloids were quoting after Michael’s death.
And it was Joe Jackson himself who always thought of Michael only the worst. When Michael arrived from Ireland clean as a whistle – even then Joe Jackson managed to suspect Michael of taking every drug his own mind was suggesting him. Indeed, “as he thinketh in his heart, so is he”.
Actually now I understand that it was largely due to his own family and the people around them (like Terry Harvey) that the world thinks that Michael was an addict. All of them suppose that if the family says so, it should be true as “the family knows better”. And this in spite of the fact that most of the Jacksons had no contact with Michael whatsoever.
By the way those bodyguards say that Michael kept up close relations only with his mother while everyone else was shut off from his life – and incidentally it is only his mother who is steadfast in saying that Michael wasn’t an addict. The reason for that is not because she is a “naive old woman” who just believed whatever her son was telling her, but because she was the only one who could actually see him – while the rest were fed by gossip and hearsay only.
What a shame that the world prefers to believe the other Jacksons and not the one who actually had access to Michael – his mother Katherine.
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He could have a harem for all I care too. But I pay attention to these things not because I want to put my nose into Michael’s private life. My train of thought is a totally different one.
If one of those girls was Ruska Bergman (considering her very special accent recalled by the bodyguards) the story she is telling about her visits to Michael is opening up a new perspective.
From their side the bodyguards say that Michael left home for the nights when those girls arrived, and from her side Ruska says she saw Michael two weeks before his death and that she was with him for “five days in a row”. She says it was at his house. Whether it was at Michael’s house or in a cheap hotel it doesn’t matter – what matters is that if this is the case Conrad Murray was evidently not present.
The fact that Conrad Murray was not staying by MJ every night as he claimed he did is corroborated by the strange email sent by Randy Phillips of AEG after Michael’s death to some woman at Sony where he jokingly said something like “you can’t imagine the way the good doctor was spending his time when he was supposed to be with his patient” (not exact quote as I am speaking from memory now).
This was an intriguing email which was never really discussed at the AEG trial, but after some research I found that Murray attended strip-tease clubs. And considering that “his” time with Michael was in the evenings or nights after the rehearsals, it may indeed mean that Murray did not spend all the nights in Michael’s house.
So when the bodyguards mentioned Michael’s amorous affairs and Ruska said she was with MJ for five days 2 weeks prior to his death her story made me recollect Randy Phillips’ email and the period of ~ June 11-16, 2009. This was exactly the time when after a full working week Michael refused to come to a Saturday rehearsal and Murray gave him a sick leave, but AEG reminded Murray who was paying him money, arranged a riot meeting for Michael, made Murray responsible for the attendance of rehearsals and actually began the contract-signing process with Murray.
The possibility of an affair with Ruska (and the other girl) adds a whole lot to what we already know. After all Michael could just want some time off for himself and his girlfriend, and he had the full right to do so. Especially considering that he had no obligation to attend those rehearsals at all.
And if Michael was angry with this AEG’s interference in his private life I will perfectly understand it. And if Michael didn’t work full out at rehearsals in those days as Phillips and Ortega wanted him to I will also understand why, and will not explain it by “drugs” as all of them did. The reason could be a totally different one. However AEG and everyone else thought that the reason was drugs and AEG arranged an urgent “intervention” meeting right at that time (around June 16th).
Another conclusion from the same is that Murray is lying when he says that he stayed by Michael every night except Sunday and “gave him Propofol every night”. If he wasn’t with MJ due to some woman’s visits he couldn’t give him Propofol either.
And the reason why he claimed that he had never left Michael’s side could be a different one – he was sending a message to his employee (AEG) that he had been fulfilling his duties properly and had done everything as he was directed to. And therefore had never violated his contract with AEG and deserved payment like all other AEG employees did (at that time he was still hoping that AEG would pay him for the 2 months spent with MJ). So in that police interview he was actually reporting to his employee this way…
And finally, the email Randy Phillips saying “you can’t imagine where Murray was” means that AEG not only knew that Murray stayed with Michael at night, but they also expected him to be by his side, it was part of his job and he was probably even fulfilling their orders. And this in its turn contradicts very much their official statements that “once the artist is at home it is none of their business how he spends his time there” and clearly points to Murray’s employment with AEG.
In short, the story told by the bodyguards about those women brought a sort of a chain reaction with me and allowed to connect some dots which until then were hanging in the air. It threw a new light on the story of Michael’s last days on earth and though it is different from everything we heard before this direction is still worth looking into. Ruska Bergman is still available and will probably answer questions if someone cares to ask.
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Though this whole conversation is getting even beyond ridiculous in reply to your question I’ll have to repeat the words of Dr. Freeze you yourself sent here:
The above is in a direct contradiction with the official credits to “Break of Dawn” which say that it was (co)written by Michael Jackson. To me it means that this Dr. Freeze is – as a very minimum – overestimating his own contribution to the song and underestimating Michael’s. And as a maximum he is simply attributing Michael’s part of work to himself, which is a very despicable thing to do. So when saying that Dr. Freeze was unreliable I was actually generous to him. He deserves much harsher words.
By the way some tracks – 7,8 and 13 – are not listed as those written by Michael Jackson. So if it wasn’t (co)written by him, it wasn’t and if it was, it was.
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Sina, you talk about the book as if you already read it, but you base your opinion on what you heard in the media about it
No , I havent read the book . I saw /read some of their interviews and I read what Helena quoted here ( from other sources) and based her opinion on..
Good you talk about it – because this only shows how wrong Joe Jackson was and how influenced the family was by others who didn’t know anything about Michael and by the media.
Dont tell me Murray was singing him lullabies to sleep. I recommend to read the court transcripts again and Princes testimony..
really wonder why you always come here to quarrel about things.. ‘
ISorry I do not belong to the mutual admiration society. I give credit where it is due ( and I praised Helena a lot for her hard work) and I only react to what Helena writes. .And if its not substantiated by facts but presented as such I will respond..
I have noticed that whenever you cannot handle disagreement you make it personal and deflect from the content…
If you think that you are the alpha and omega on MJ facts and only want people to agree with you maybe you should put a disclaimer on.. ..
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Sina, you talk about the book as if you already read it, but you base your opinion on what you heard in the media about it. You don’t know if the book really tells the story about the women in the way the media presented it. I suggest it makes sense to read the book first before judging it.
And BTW, these two bodyguards who wrote the book, were not with him from the time he moved to LA. They worked for him only in Las Vegas, but not in his last weeks before he died. They were not responsible for him at the time of his death! But the time in Las Vegas was an important time in Michael’s life, a lot of things happened when he came back to the US.
Yes, good you talk about it – because this only shows how wrong Joe Jackson was and how influenced the family was by others who didn’t know anything about Michael and by the media.
I really wonder why you always come here to quarrel about things. I miss some positive input from you, you just comment if you can confront someone with a different opinion, and always in a rather gruff style. I really miss more of Michael’s softness among his supporters.
Helena, here is another link with some excerpts from the book:
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2014/06/michael_jackson_his_personal_security_guards_describe_the_king_of_pop_s.html
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Ofcourse it wouldnt be Murray because he didnt give him the deadly injection . Was nt it the same bodyguards who intriduce him to Michael and the same ones who said that Michael would not agree to his fans blaming Murray for his death..
By the way they make Michael look like a fool who couldnt afford toys for his kids and was basically homeless, refused entry at hotels because of invalid credit cards but at the same time making disproportionate spendings for a birtday party of Elizabeth Taylor.. .
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” I think Dr. Freeze unreliable”,
Based on what exactly?
‘but the last time we talked you considered unreliable the bodyguards of Michael Jackson (who stayed by his side for several years and wrote a book about him). ”
And based on what do you find them reliable?
I have no opinion on these BODY – GUARDS let alone considering them anything
They were not that interesting, just passers by in the sceme of Michaels 50 years .The ones that really mattered in Michaels life never tell salacious stories..
I only said that their story about secret women in cheap hotels is as reliable as Halperins , Its generic and not traceable and adds nothing, unless you are obsessed to prove that Michael was a redblooded man and need these kind of stories for it. He could have a harem for all I care. I dont have pre conceived ideas of Michael relationships , sexual interests or preferences, But I do not buy everything I read because it fits some agenda. .
As far as I have an opinion on the body guards it would be that most of all they guarded his BODY, whille hey should have guarded his LIFE. .
Unfortunately the ones who could have saved Michael because they didnt sign confidentiality agreements were blocked by these same bodyguards. Because they would find out that what the bodyguards were defending was INDEFENSIBLE.
Maybe you should quote the part where Joe Jackson came to the gates and asked them if they were the ones putting needleds into his son. You remember that Prince had called his grandpa because he was worried about his dad and Joe was not let in..
Who the hell did their ‘protection”benefit ? .
Defending or protecting or whatevcer the did the king is laughable and the epitome of cynicism. He died! surrounded by armed guards.
I hope they make enough money never to need a bodyguard job again.. Who would hire someone you trust with your life to find out he has no qualms to go tell about your problems for no reason or purpose other than to make money…
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Sina, this is becoming ridiculous. YOU quoted that part earlier and I simply didn’t repeat it. The information I provided was in ADDITION to yours. Here is the information you posted:
I went to the source you mentioned and noticed the following which you had not posted and added it:
From these two pieces of information taken together it is clear that Dr. Freeze was responsible for backing vocals, co-writing the song and producing it. And Michael co-wrote it too as he wrote tracks “1 to 6” and Break of Dawn is track No.4.
What’s the matter with you that you notice one thing and don’t notice the other? Why can’t you simply agree that Michael co-wrote the song (together with Dr. Freeze?) Why the need for this useless debate?
I don’t like any kind of drama (especially when it is made out of nothing) but I can address exactly the same to you.
I consider Dr. Freeze unreliable, and the last time we talked you considered unreliable the bodyguards of Michael Jackson (who stayed by his side for several years and have now written a book). I was surprised by your harsh attitude towards them and made a guess that it was due to your ever-present support for Randy and Joe Jackson and that there might be something in the book which is not to your and their liking (?)
Well, it turns out that my guess was correct. A detailed review of the book has come my way and the book is indeed not flattering to Randy Jackson. And it also says that Michael didn’t want to see any of his family – except Katherine of course.
Now I understand the reason for all your bickering with me…
Here is the review:
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“Sina, you will be surprised but I don’t consider Dr. Freeze a reliable source. ”
Ofcourse you wouldnt.
“Actually he is not even mentioned in the Credits section.”
Nrither is Marcia Ambrosius , Carlos Santana and many many more in the part you posted . Maybe you should have posted the information track by track . This is te rest of the information about the actual track, not the general credits ,you didnt quote.
:”Break Of Dawn
Backing Vocals, Written-By, Producer – Dr. Freeze
Drum Programming – Brad Buxer, Michael Jackson
Instrumentation By [All Musical] – Dr. Freeze, Teddy Riley
Mixed By, Recorded By – Humberto Gatica
“This is ridiculous. Every musician and writer changes something and Michael was especially known to constantly change even his own songs and never stop to perfect them, so claiming that “he didn’t want to change anything” is totally out of Michael’s character”
What does Michaels character have to do with how he perceives a song. He didnt change Butterflies , listen to Marcia’s version, it is exactly the same way Michael sang it .
Maybe you should take the time to read the full article..
http://michaeljacksonbeat.blogspot.nl/2011/02/dr-freeze-on-michael-jackson.html
No one denies Michaels love for LMP and vice versa. They made a video together butt naked . Who would do that if you were not very confident about one another( though she later said she was kind of forced into it,, but the truth is ofcourse in the middle)
No one denies your right to assume who the song is about. We do not have to agree .But to dismiss facts because they do not fit your beliefs is unexpected to say the least..
Michael dedicated songs and albums to different people and if he did it was always on the album..
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Sina, you will be surprised but I don’t consider Dr. Freeze a reliable source. These days there are so many people who like telling stories about Michael and who – after Michael’s death – attribute to themselves what was actually done by Michael that I’ve grown extremely wary of what people say. And especially when they claim that “he took it ready-made and didn’t change a single thing there”.
This is ridiculous. Every musician and writer changes something and Michael was especially known to constantly change even his own songs and never stop to perfect them, so claiming that “he didn’t want to change anything” is totally out of Michael’s character.
These people are simply keen on glorifying themselves at Michael’s expense. “See how good I am if even the great Michael Jackson didn’t want to change a single thing in my song”?
As to who wrote Break of Dawn I’ve looked up the source you quoted and found the following (in the Credits section):
Break of Dawn is track #4, so Michael Jackson did co-write it. And what Dr. Freeze says now is the last thing that interests or bothers me. Actually he is not even mentioned in the Credits section.
What bothers me – no, what actually makes me wonder – is why it is so terribly important for people to prove that the song could not be about LMP? And that he never actually loved her? And that he loved Diana Ross more than LMP? And that he couldn’t love Ruska in the final days of his life as his bodyguards more or less pointed to her as a woman with an East European accent whom Michael dated? And why “which woman it was” is a matter of so terrible importance, especially at a time when we have to deal with rascals like Wade Robson and Safechuck?
What is important is that it was a woman and not someone else, right?
Well, you think that Break of Dawn is not about LMP and I think that it is and we have different opinion about it, so what? And why is your or anyone’s opinion better than mine? And my opinion is not just an opinion, but a statement based on the lyrics of the song which Michael co-wrote with another person. And I have every reason to believe that “People talk, people say what we have is just a game” is one of the things which Michael contributed to it. And that it is so specific that it refers to one particular woman in MJ’s life. Who was also his partner at around the same period of time.
If you or others don’t agree, that’s okay with me. But I also have the right to an opinion, don’t I?
Exactly.
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Helena you might consider more reliable sources than Wiki when it comes to Michaels music
http://www.discogs.com/Michael-Jackson-Invincible/release/220736
Break Of Dawn /Backing Vocals, Written-By, Producer – Dr. Freeze/Drum Programming – Brad Buxer, Michael Jackson’/ Instrumentation By [All Musical] – Dr. Freeze, Teddy Riley
Mixed By, Recorded By – Humberto Gatica
http://www.songwritershalloffame.org/songs/detailed/C116
BREAK OR DAWN Writer: Dr. Freeze, Michael Jackson Publisher: Sony-ATV Songs LLC/Mijac Music
http://songworx.com/working-with-michael-jackson-studio/
Dr. Freeze, the man responsible for writing and producing ‘Break Of Dawn,’ a song from Michael’s ‘Invincible’ album, was kind enough to give me some fascinating insight into the direction of the upcoming work-in-progress project.
http://michaeljacksonbeat.blogspot.nl/2011/02/dr-freeze-on-michael-jackson.html
Ergo Dr Freeze wrote /composed the song and presented it to Michael and there is no record or reference that it was for or about a specific woman. Michael said that not every song is autobiographical, that is why an artist has his imagination.
People did talk about both Michaels marriages and for several reasons. I believe LMPs and Michaels was a true love affair of two people who had a mutual attraction. His marriages to Debbie Rowe needs no explanation. her own words and Michaels attitude speak volumes.
No one knows the real nature of his relationship with Diana, but his feelings for her are no secret Maybe for her it was game, maybe he just imagined they had something going , we only know his side. But naming her as 2nd guardian of his kids is a heck of a statement.
In Elizabeth I think he found a substitute for Diana after he felt rejected by her. He could relate to ET because they had some things in common, they were both childstars who endured the flipside of fame and also had some similar struggles. She accepted him for what he was and he felt comfortable around her.
But this is all opinion from an outsider, reality is often a lot different from perception.
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Wiki says that “Elliot Straite also known by his pseudonym Dr. Freeze has co-written and co-produced Break Of Dawn for Michael Jackson’s #1 album Invincible.” It doesn’t say that it was presented to Michael ready-made. It was co-written and who wrote which line we don’t know.
And as regards the woman Michael had in mind he needn’t have spoken about her directly to anyone at all. Lyrics of songs are very often intimate for their writer and this song is especially intimate in its content. But I am sure that it was about Lisa-Marie Presley because of the following words there:
“People talk, people say what we have is just a game”
It was only about LMP that people talked and said that they were having a game, that the marriage was sham, that it was never consummated and that she was simply doing him a “favor” of distracting the public from the 1993 allegations. Actually most people laughed and ridiculed that relationship and the famous kiss was regarded as a staged show (while it was absolutely genuine). The concept of it being a game was prevailing over everything else in public mind at that time.
The other “sham marriage” people talked of was with Debbie Rowe, but over there she was called just a friend who “sells her children”. If we follow the logic of those who spoke of her that way the word “deal” would be more appropriate than a “game”. In fact it was neither game nor deal, but this is not the point – obviously it wasn’t Debbie who was the subject of that song.
I don’t know of any other woman in Michael’s life whose relationship with Michael could be so widely talked of by the public and labeled a “game” at that. Elisabeth Taylor? No. Diana Ross? Absolutely not. Please name at least one and I will be ready to look into the candidate.
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Break of dawn was presented to Michael by Dr Freeze. and they worked on the song together. It was not written by Michael and I never heard or read that he ever said had one particular woman in mind.with this song.,
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I do think MJ and Lisa loved each other, but I do not think that ‘Break of Dawn’ was about her. Sorry.
Michael had a lot of lovers that even we do not know about, and we don’t know the extent of their relationship. Just in that period alone (1997 – 2000), Michael was married to Debbie (their marriage was a ‘game’ to the media too after all) and he was also reconnecting with his ‘one great love that got away’ Diana Ross (she recorded ‘Drop The Mask’ and her own version of ‘You Are Not Alone’ for Michael around that time. She was also newly divorced). Just because MJ and Lisa were still seeing each other in that period doesn’t mean they were exclusive. I’m pretty sure they messed around with other people too, hence ‘Break of Dawn’ could be about just anybody.
I think a more fitting song by MJ for Lisa is ‘Don’t Walk Away’, because the lyrics seem to fit their situation.
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Have you heard the latest LMP album Storm and Grace? I have listening it couple of days already, and it seems, that most o the songs are about Michael.
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How do you know Break of Dawn is about LIsa? I always imagined michael singing that to debbie (don’t ask why) and that kind of turned me off to that song (i’m not saying it’s about debbie, that’s just a connection my weird brain made). LMAO i’m laughing at myself. But seriously, how do you know for a fact it’s about Lisa?
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So this judge can tell wich marriage is based on true feelings, wich is not. Oh my God! I guess all the couple, who read VG’s book go to him to get married, so after the wedding he can tell the newly weds: your husband loves you, your wife doesn’t love you ecc. Some people can’t figure it out through a lifetime their partner really loves them or not, this judge sees into the hearts, and can tell if there is true love in it or not after spending half an hour with the couple.
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Maud,
I take it you are a close to LMP or were close to Michael Jackson?
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First and foremost, I have never heard so much BS in life, from Victor Gutierrez and Lisa MJJ.
Victor’s BS goes without saying: however, Lisa MJJ either must be lying or she is speaking with individuals who are lying to her. MJ never got over Lisa Marie, nor she him. He trusted her, almost to a fault and didn’t hold a grudge against her for some of the things she said, because he understood what HE, also, did wrong in the relationship. Despite what she said, they were still in contact even while the charges were under consideration with the grand jury.
Lisa Marie has ALWAYS been close to Danny, he has been a constant presence in her life, even today. She went on a family vacation and Danny was invited, MJ got pissed and took off before Lisa even got home. He did not find any birth control pills – who and whay is your source, that crazy letter that was supposedly written from everyong, Frank Casico to Bob Jones, now it appears it’s some “undisclosed” promoter? Well, we shall see what Frank Casico has to say in his book, and I guarantee it won’t be anywhere close to the BS you’re spewing.
MJ and Lisa Marie were off and on for years, more than the 4 years she announced to Oprah. If she betrayed like you claim, he wouldn’t be bothered with her given his world, he could keep anyone out if he choose to do so. I’m tired of so-called fans disparaging Lisa Marie when you HAVE NO IDEA what happened in their relationship.
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That’s a cute story about MJ and this red-haired girl.
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@Lisa MJJ1111 The book is mentioned in an article and has some excerpts so here it is:
“Michael Jackson and I had a very wonderful relationship… I always thought he was going to wind up being a box-boy at Gelson’s because he had a crush on a very beautiful young lady who was about 4 ½ feet tall who was working there. [She had] very white porcelain skin with big blue eyes; real red-haired, that she wore in little pigtails and he used to come over and act as a box boy for her; pack the groceries for the people who came through her aisle. I always came through there and he would say, ‘Hello Mrs. Berlin’. My son, Will, used to play with the Jackson Five, basketball, at their home.”
“I think they hired him (laughs). He … would come [to the market] dressed up as The Wiz; wearing these shoes that were like on stilts…He came to see that pig-tailed, red-head girl….He loved her. He knew everyone that came to Gelson’s.”
http://www.eurweb.com/?p=31623
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I almost forgot..Michael was not arrogant. He stopped being in love with Lisa Marie because he was betrayed-in so many levels. Michael was very much in love with her. And also remember, Michael already had plans with debbie rowe, before he got married to lisa marie. He went to his original plan. That is the reason why he accepted debbie’s proposal. Their agreement was estalished in 1990-91. Also keep in mind that Michael had lupus. He stated when he was 33 years old, he was going to die young. Many people who have lupus die young..it is the nature of the disease. Infact, many people who have lupus,do not make it pass 60-65 years old. So if seems michael seemed in a hurry to have a family,children..it is because he knew he didn’t have long to live. remember also he had already been in the hosptal at least 2 times becasue of his lupus complicaitons..I have done massive research and have already interview several people who knew him (Iam writing a book about his humanitarian work and his spirituality). People are entitled to their opinions..opinions are like as..les.. everyone has one.. Allot of the things i read on blogs are opinions that are based on media brain washing, and not enough on research.. and opinions based on prejudices and biases..I was not a MJ fan. I have always like his music..and always saw his heart, and his spirit. But, when he passed away..I began to research him. OMG-everything I always felt intuitively was true! And then some..Michael was an increditable human being, I totally feel in love with his heart! May he RIP–he is now with the one who Created him..I know he is in peace…Love is 4EVER -i will see you in paradise..
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Michael wanted a TRADITIONAL Family since 1987-1988. A lady by the name of Gloria, who sold him the Neverland ranch talks about it in her book: Searching for Neverland. Infact she said that Michael had a huge crush on a pretty petite girl with red hair who worked at Gleson’s..he liked her so much he would bag the groceries for the customers, so that he can be near her. She said that Michael was READY to settle down, have children, and a wife he could come home too..but it never happened..You can find it on Michael Jackson 777. Michael wanted what most people want to have a normal-loving relationship. The accusations, his insecurities of “finding the right woman”, because of his vitiligo, his conditioning that women only want him for his superstar status and money..etc..etc..So when he did finally found someone whom he didn’t have to worry about taking his money, who told him that she would have his children, who had her own status in the entertainment industry as Elvis’s daughter, who was pretty, who was sexual, whom seem smart, and loving..well of course Michael fell in love..Lisa Marie was EVERYthing Michael-wanted..so it seemed..I saw their love for each other. I felt their energy..There was nothing fake about it..In fact, Michael wanted a traditional wedding, but because of the circumstances..it didn’t happen that way. Michael fell out of love with lisa marie because of HER LIES..remember Lisa marie said in her interiew with oprah, that she went to hawaii to be her ex-husband for 2 weeks?? This is before Michael found the birth control pills?? She went back to her ex-husband for 2 weeks and didn’t have sex with him?? of course she is not ever going to disclose that—that is too honest. Then later, Michael finds the birth control pills? And I do not even want to talk about the years she dogged him, lied about him, and put his name through the mud..to oprah, howard stern, to diane sawyer, to larry king..in front of millions of people! should i go on? I really thought lisa marie had more class, more dignity, and more humility than that. I have been in love so deep so passionately..and the man i feel in love with lied to me, betrayed me, and was simply not the man he said he was..do i hate him- no. I was i angery and hurt..yes. I am still in- love with him- NO..One cannot continue to be IN-LOVE with some who hurt you..Basicly, Michael has went through what millions of us have been through..disappointments in relationships.. As for Debbie Row..Michael had plans with Debbie row to have children, and they even date..years before he met lisa marie again in 1993..so that tells allot about how michael wanted a traditional family life..Michael changed his plans with Debbie Row, to be with Lisa Marie. I have actually interview one of michael’s girlfriends, before his passing..and from what i heard first hand was this; Michael was a loving, caring, gentleman.. He loved and respected, and honored women..and I really do believe that towards the end of his life, he was ready to settle down again..He didn’t care anymore about staying inside his inner circle of conditioning ( women in the entertainment industry or someone with their own “money”) –Michael learned from his mistakes..as most of us do..just because some comes with a last name of ‘status’,or has money, does not mean class or diginity..or honesty. This girl i interviewed was a pretty, smart, girl who did not come from money, in fact she was a struggling single parent..and I found her to be truthful about her relationship with michael..And she seemed to love michael for michael, not the superstar…and michael seemed to truly care for her. In fact, he took her out on dates, movies, etc..for years! Maybe she could have been the next mrs. michael jackson..if his life wasn’t taken so young. As for me, I love michael, his heart, his love for God, his love for life, his everything.RIP -king of LOVE..
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@ Suzy About the M.J and Debbie thing, sure it was her idea but M.J didn’t have to go through with it. Its not like she forced him to. I think L.M.P and M.J were both arrogant and that’s one of the reasons why they got divorced.
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@Crossfire
“There is a trick to the IP address which I am not willing to share.”
Oh there is a trick alright, but people who do that usually have something to hide, and it is not that special. I can see this reason for “terminal users”, but for someone just blogging on a MICHAEL JACKSON site: nah.
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“I am sorry but Teresa and I do not know one another…. She gave me permission on her private email address.”
Crossfire, I think you said you and Teresa don’t know each other and now it turns out that you have a permission from her to use her private address. But let me accept your answer anyway – you’ve said enough for the readers to form an opinion of their own about the matter.
“I don’t see her [Teresa] trying to suck anyone into a debate. I don’t see any negativity in any of her blogs but just observations on her part.”
The specifics of this blog is that we are not just sharing our observations here but try to find proof for each of our statements with an ultimate goal of establishing the truth about Michael Jackson. We are meticulously looking into every allegation about him and are sorting out lies from true facts (if they are to be found there at all).
None of us are of course immune to reflecting on some issues from time to time, but the general idea is actually hard common work on determining the true facts about Michael Jackson.
It will be one thing if you (or Teresa) are ready to engage in a debate in the form of a meaningful exchange of facts, but it will be quite another thing if you (or Teresa) prefer to repeat such unjustified observations like you or she made here as central points about Michael:
“#1 The Media which he manipulated like a circus performer: #2 Women: Which he saw as opportunities for investments in future children which also meant money for his estate. #3 His personal name which he also used to make money for his estate.
When we see judgmental, unsubstantiated and biased statements like these we find that there is simply no common ground for any form of a debate.
What is there to ‘debate’ here?
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Oh, forget to say. If Tesera gave Crossfire permission to use her email address via Teresa’s private email. Then, that means Crossfire already has her own email address in order to get a message of “permission” from Teresa’s private email address. So, there would be no need for Crossfire to be using Tesera’s address.
I think its just the same person with a 101 names.
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Ok, this really does not make sense to me Crossfire.
1. “No I am sorry but Teresa and I do not know one another but there is a trick to the IP address which I am not willing to share.”
2. “I have gotten permission from Teresa Cooper. She gave me permission on her private email address.”
Why would a complete stranger, someone you said you don’t know give you access to their email address? Also the only “trick” to the IP address is that a person is using the same computer. Each computer has its own individual IP address. Its like a finger print for a computer.
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VindicateMJ: It is okay for the intrusion, But I am trying to clear up some miscommunciation between what people have read. It is hard to know people’s attitude only by the words they use. I have gotten permission from Teresa Cooper. She gave me permission on her private email address. I have read a blog from Teresa saying that she doesn’t watch any tabloid trashy shows and doesn’t read tabloids so how is that a judgemental attitude, I don’t see her trying to suck anyone into a debate. A debate has already been started before she joined this conversation. I don’t see any negativity in any of her blogs but just observations on her part.
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“Some people can and do some things similarly and have some things in common to one another”
Crossfire, I am terribly sorry I am interrupting your very interesting conversation with Lynande51, but can you please explain why you have so much in common with Teresa that you are sharing with her one e-mail address?
Are you ‘borrowing’ it or what?
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Lynande51: All I am willing to say about the IP address is that I can borrow things when necessary. I have read a lot of this blog and a lot of people’s different points of view and I think that people only understand their own point of view. It is difficult to understand other people’s point of view but I will say that everyone will experience some of the same situations in life and everyone tends to handle things differently from everyone else. Some people can and do some things similarly and have some things in common to one another but judgement happens when someone does not have understanding. There are a lot of differences in life and yet at the same time a lot of similarities.
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“No I am sorry but Teresa and I do not know one another but there is a trick to the IP address which I am not willing to share.”
Crossfire, okay, the IP address might be a trick – but why is your email address the same as Teresa’s?
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Lynande51: No I am sorry but Teresa and I do not know one another but there is a trick to the IP address which I am not willing to share. I understand and have been reading the blogs and you have said about someones attitude being judgemental but I think it is hard to understand peoples attitudes by just the words they use. Communication is not always easy when people don’t know each other personally, So I am always very careful on these computers because people do misinterpret and misunderstand one another a lot easier on a computer. People tend to come off as judgemental when they have no understanding.
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“Everyone in life has choices to make whether other people understand other peoples choices is really irrelevent.”
Crossfire, dear, I absolutely agree with you that everyone in life has choices to make – this is why each of us is taking his own path and reaps what he sows.
But I don’t understand why you make such a strange choice yourself and come under a different name each time. I’ll tell you a little secret – we as co-editors see your IP address and I really don’t understand why Teresa’s and your IP address should be exactly the same. Even your avatars are identical as you can see it yourself.
Are you and Teresa using the same computer or what?
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Lynande51: I am sorry if any blogs that you have read offended you but it is only one person’s opinon of a popular person. Everything in life is not meant to be a popularity contest in any way. Everyone is intitled to their point of view when it comes to anyone, I don’t take anything in any way that anyone has written on this blog in a personal manner. No one has to agree or disagree with anyone at anytime. Everyone in life has choices to make whether other people understand other peoples choices is really irrelevent. People can make comparisons to other people because all musicians and actors, and talented people are all doing the same thing in just a different manner, with a different outcome depending on the particular road that they chose to travel on.
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Alison I too was a battered wife both emotionally and physically. Teresa Cooper seems to have a very judgmental attitude. She is female so I would wonder why that is. I will get back to her.
I had a comment on here last week that I tried to update and it was lost, it was pertaining to Lisa Marie and the Oprah Winfrey interview and how I felt that the interview was very self serving and was more to begin promotion on a not yet completed upcoming album that she intends to release early next year. She wanted to get the Michael Jackson questions out of the way so when she begins promoting her new album the interviewers won’t ask Michael Jackson Questions.
What upset me at the time was the fact that she was not completely forthcoming about the 1993 allegations. She was there from the beginning and probably has more responsibility than she will accept. She went on to say that she thought he was an addict because in her small mind it could not have been solely her shortcomings that ended that marriage. By her own admission Lisa Marie Presley was a spoiled little princess. She admitted in an interview with Playboy that she used to throw tantrums when she did not get what she wanted and had the staff at Graceland fearful of her temper because if she did not get what she wanted when she wanted it she would have them fired. Granted she was older and perhaps a little wiser and knew that behavior was wrong when she was giving the interview but the interview was more than 5 years after her divorce from Michael because she was even discussing her divorce from Nicholas Cage in the interview. As far as I’m concerned she was doing the same Michael bashing that she had done then, just a little more softly. Just another typical ex wife that is all she is.
Debbie Rowe offered t o have Michael’s children for him, when they divorced she gave him custody because they were Dear friends and she knew that she could not care for Michael Jacksons children without Michael Jackson. She knew that to be his children made them different and she could not provide them with the security that they needed. She offered to be a prosecution witness and went into the courtroom and bombed their case. If you don’t realize what a blow she was to the prosecution case you should read the headlines from that day. She had completely betrayed them and sunk their case when she supported Michael 100%.
Now moving on to Teresa Cooper. Anyone can get a separate email account and I suspect that is what has happened here. She comes here and makes statement about Michael’ egotism and women, uses a long dead Rock and Roller as a very poor example in how a celebrity should conduct their private life and deliberately spells a few words wrong , in particular Michael’s name. Just a little disrespectful right Desiree? Would it help you to know that Desiree’s computer is currently on the fritz and she has to use someone else’s to blog? This girl has now crossed a line where she cannot be blogging her hatred out there in some form or another. She has added to her blog by opening a You Tube account to further promote her cause. If you read her comments you will see the restrained elegance in her writing in an attempt to suck everyone in to a debate and guess what it worked.
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@shelly
Yes ,she testified for the prosecutor.But she destroyed their case.I just respect that woman because when everybody else abandoned Michael ,she was there.When everybody thought that she was going to testify against him,she did the oposit. That’s my opinion at least.
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Hi,
I’m not responding to one particular post, but general on all commments i’ve read here.
For myself I don’t need to read kiss and tell stories by women to believe 100% Michael was heterosexual and was very aware of himself as a sexual being. Everything about the way Michael is with women every footage I have seen of him – the way he stands, moves around them, touches them, holds them, reacts to them, everything, tells me this. I don’t need to question it. There is nothing gay about him at all. i have never seen any footage that would suggest it. shy maybe at times, but not gay. as for the stories – i take everything anyone says about Michael with a pinch of salt.
However I do believe the relationship with LMP was real.
I also believe that however it might seem unconventional there was some reality in the relationship with DR. There are all sorts of love, and maybe it wasn’t as fiery as with LMP, maybe it wasn’t as sexual, i don’t know and i feel offended by myself for intruding on it and writing this, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t real. there are all sorts of realities because relationships and feelings are so mega complex and changeable.
and if it was simply a contract, why not? how else realistically would he have got children? if this was what it was, it still doesn’t mean he didn’t also love and respect her and have a relationship with her. I hate the world that made it so difficult for the man to have a normal life, mocked and criticised everything, then continued to mock and criticise the ways he tried to deal with his totally unique situation, largely caused by the criticism and everything.
as for Teresa’s comments about no woman would just allow herself to be used for babies – really, you think that? she wouldn’t be the first woman by a long way who either loved a man so much she used babies to keep him or just used a man to get babies, admittedly women usually want to keep the babies with them but thats not really here nor there in this case.
she wouldn’t be the first woman who engaged in a relationship that didn’t meet her own needs simply because of her feelings about the man.
I don’t believe Michael didn’t respect her, but if that had been the case, DR wouldn’t be the first woman who stayed with a man who didn’t respect her.
i also think we can’t ignore the fact DR was in her late thirties – body clock and all that. We can’t judge her.
I could go on – the fact is I believe that Michael and Debbie had a unique relationship that was what it was, regardless of whether other people understand or what their opinions are as outsiders. They have produced 2 lovely children together.Debbie has done a lot to support Michael and i agree with Dialdancer’s comment about defending the castle.
I will also add for Teresa and others that think similarly,- nothing to do with Michael and his life – that it is easy to say how you WOULD behave in a situation if you haven’t actually BEEN in the situation, it doesn’t mean thats what would happen if it happened to you, if that makes sense. After watching my father treat my mother badly for years I used to believe i would NEVER let a man treat me badly, i would never let myself be dictated to, i would never hang around to be hit a second time. I had to realise things were not that simple when i got involved with a guy who did treat me very badly emotionally and i had to acknowledge that however much i would like to be strong or detached enough to not put up with crap and disrespect, in reality its far far more difficult to walk away from a guy you have feelings for, however mixed up and unhealthy those might actuallyeventually turn out to be, than i ever thought before i was in the situation. NOT that this applies to Michael, i am not saying that, but i am saying that as far as your comment about putting up with disrespect goes, I have to stand up for all those women who know they have put up with disrespect and worse, because its much harder to deal with and know how to deal with than others might assume who’ve not been there.
my ex didn’t hit me, but he did make me feel i was the worst person in the world. when i finally managed to get out, i had a much greater understanding, appreciation and respect for those women who are also physically abused. i knew i was in no place to judge another woman’s actions. i knew i could no longer say i wouldn’t stay to be hit a second time. and i think those of us who are women need to support each other on these issues, and the whole issue of life choices, not take judgemental stands that we just can’t understand why another woman would do such and such.
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@visitor
Debbie testified for the prosecution. Yes she helped him during the trial but she called him a sociopath during her police interview and she did some tape recordings for the prosecution.
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@Dialdancer
I know that a lot of Michael’s fan don’t like Deppie Rowe and they tend to put her down while praising LM, but i have a great respect for Deppie.She was there during Michael’s trial, she went to the court and defended him while LM was parading all over the media defaming him and giving more “food” to his haters. I respect Rowe.
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@ Helena
The pictures of Debbie and Michael are one of my reasons to think it was never real. The interaction: there is zero chemistry, zero spark, zero attraction between them – at least from Michael’s side. That’s at least how I see those pictures.
(Yes, they can still smile and be and look happy because of the kids etc, but I just don’t see the attraction to Debbie from Michael.)
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“I believe some of those women who went to the media during the trial to tell the world they had sex with Michael were hired by the Jackson family. I mean the likes of Theresa Gonzales, Romonica Harris, Joanna Thomae and so on.”
Suzy, I also felt that there was something fishy about those stories. But as to Debbie I don’t know. However if you prefer to think it was a formal arrangement between them, it is perfectly okay with me.
Can I just make my last try and ask you to have a look at some of their rare pictures together in that blog? They look quite happy to me in several of them…
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Suzy: Let me explain why I said what I said about Jimi and Micheal. They both were musicians in different eras and different times. Making music to these men was a art form. Artistic people tend to be very egocentric people. (They love the attention people give them through their artwork.) Micheal Jackson loved performing on stage. Michealangelo, Picasso, and many others were attention craving individuals to a point. They wanted recognition for what they were doing. They enjoyed their professions as most real professional people do. They were also thinkers. Men of few words. Micheal and Jimi loved to sing and express themselves in a artistic form. They both loved their craft and were good at it. The media would eat it up in the 80’s and so Jimi kept his personal life out of the public eye altogether and Micheal would have been smart to do the same. Not to say they could not be happy with a traditional life. but you can’t have fame and personal PRIVATE life in todays nutty enviroment. Too many people want a peice of your pie, and it would be hard to even make true sincere friends in the celebrity enviroment of today. I think Jimi Hendrix even knew this in his day, that is another reason why Jimi was a loner who committed to his guitar and his craft, more than anything personal. And they both died young.
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“I think Micheal saw women as a opportunity for his own egocentric self.”
Oh, my God, Teresa – Michael wasn’t egocentric at all! The pressures he had to undergo in his life were incomparable to anything any of us has ever had and everyone who was by his side (women, relatives, friends) should have been able to understand that. Add to it the fact that he couldn’t trust anyone as even the people closest to him betrayed him (after all even Debbie testified as a prosecution witness in 2005) and you have a picture of a kind and generous man who was just trying to shield his inner self, that’s all.
“I think Micheal Jackson loved the stage more than any woman.”
Possibly he did. All men of genius are like that. When Michael focused on his music, dance and songs and was in the process of creating his masterpieces on or off stage his power of concentration was such that he was probably completely oblivious of everything around him.
“I think he loved being a entertainer first and a father second”.
This goes against everything we’ve learned about Michael. This is what both he and Debbie said about his fatherhood:
Michael: Words can’t describe it. There is no miracle in life that compares with watching your son come into the world.
Debbie: Michael does everything. He loves being involved in every aspect of caring for the baby. He is such a wonderful father, feeding him, holding him and of course, singing to him. … He feeds him, he changes his diapers, he reads to him, he sings to him, if he’s on the phone the baby’s in his arms, if he’s having a meeting the baby’s there. He takes naps with him. He, he, he’s….the…..I don’t need to be there. I don’t need to be there. Cause Michael’s…..I’ve got nothing to do.
“Whenever the baby is awake, he is with the baby the whole time,” she said. “When the baby is napping, that’s when he steals away to work, to write music, to dance.”
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Hello, I don’t know much about DR or Jason Pfeiffer. I don’t watch Extra, Hard Copy, Inside edition, or any other tabloid trashy shows. I am not saying anything negative about people that I do not know personally. I therefore cannot have much opinion about anything or anyone when I have really no facts to back up my opinions. I only have mental opinions about what I see and hear and I don’t believe everything that I see, hear, read about anyone or anything at anytime. I will ask questions of people who claim to know more about a particular subject. I do however believe that a lot of celebrities depend on politics to get them the money they need through their talented status as celebrities. I do not believe in making money off of the dead ones or making money off of their names. I think the living are much more important to claim their own talents and make their own way as much as anyone else. There is a lot about the celebrities world in which I do not understand and I perfer to keep it that way.
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@ Helena
Katherine is just as desperate about Michael’s sexual image in the media as some of those fans I mentioned. In fact, I believe some of those women who went to the media during the trial to tell the world they had sex with Michael were hired by the Jackson family (I don’t think Michael had anything to do with it himself!) I mean the likes of Theresa Gonzales, Romonica Harris, Joanna Thomae and so on. But these things IMO only make matters worse, because people sense they are not true and wonder why they need to make up such stories and if there is something to hide there. So if Katherine endorsed that story that still isn’t a proof to me. Especially if we read that interrogation of Katherine that I have taken from the blog earlier in this thread:
Q106, San Diego, California: Was this a surprise for you?
KATHERINE JACKSON: Yes, it was in a way.
Q106: Did you know her, have you met her?
JACKSON: I’ve never met her.
Q106: Did Michael ever talk to you about her?
JACKSON: Oh, sometimes.
Q106: Did he talk to you in a way that you would think maybe, he was in love with her, or one day might want to marry her? Or this would be it?
JACKSON: Not exactly.
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Hey Dialdancer, wow I didn’t know Debbie has helped stop some of the smear campaigns. I know (through Karen Faye’s twitter account) she was responsible for getting the other Jason Phieffer/Arnie Klein Michael’s gay segmants off of the air. I didn’t realize about the other programs though. I personally don’t know what kind of relationship Michael had with Debbie but in my opinion there are many different kinds of love. While what he had with Debbie may not have been as intense or maybe not even as romantic as what he had with Lisa Marie but it could very well have had much depth to it. I know many of us would like to get inside everyone’s head, Michael’s, Debbie’s and Lisa’s and know what they were all thinking and feeling at the time. Unfortunatley there are somethings we’ll never know, we can only speculate or go on the words of others.
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“I have to say there are a lot of stories on that blog I don’t believe AT ALL and that I think are just made up tabloid stories with no credit to them.”
Suzy, I think that the blogger collected every little detail there was to find about Debbie in the media and put it in the chronological order (the same way she did it for Lisa Marie’s thread). And it is the interesting part of it – you see the various ways various media reported it, compare those pieces and try to figure out how much of it is true and how much is just tabloid trash.
I naturally cannot guarantee the authenticity of what they are writing there, but there is one thing which makes me think that there is some grain of truth in those stories.
The newspaper article I’ve mentioned to you earlier (and which I cannot find in my stored links now) was a recent one and it was actually devoted to Katherine’s latest book about Michael. She frankly talked there about the need to raise money. It was a two part story telling how Katherine and Debbie are growing up the children together now – and it was in this top serious article coming under the auspices of Katherine that Debbie Rowe mentioned that round-the-clock love with Michael.
To me it is a kind of an endorsement from Katherine (who was evidently familiar with the full content of the article) which made me believe Debbie’s story. Otherwise I would also be doubtful same as you.
P.S. And what you said about Michael giving up on the traditional family dream after LMP is fantastically correct and precise:
“I think after LMP he just gave up on the traditional family dream, because he realized that in his status it never would be easy with anyone.”
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@ Teresa
Your comparation of Jimi Hendrix and Michael Jackson is not really fair, since they were working in totally different eras and media environment. In Hendrix’s era the media was more respectful than in the 80s and from then on. He probably would have had it harder to keep private in this recent era.
I think Micheal saw women as a opportunity for his own egocentric self.
I don’t agree with this. Let’s remind ourselves once again, that it was Debbie who offered her services to Michael. It wasn’t Michael’s idea.
I don’t think he was egocentric with woman and when I say I don’t believe he was in love with DR I don’t mean with it what you said here. You just cannot force yourself to be in love with someone. Michael wanted children desperately. It would have been better if he had that in a traditional family, but it just wasn’t meant to be for him. His first wife just betrayed him about that, you know….
I think after LMP he just gave up on the traditional family dream, because he realized that in his status it never would be easy with anyone.
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“When it is time to defend the castle she’d be the one in the fight, not sitting in the parlor drinking tea with the enemy. This is a woman that I can get behind. This is the wife of Michael I respect.”
Great words, Dial.
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@ Dialdancer
I know it was Debbie who stopped that Jason Pfeiffer program on Extra – she took action and Extra pulled the second part. I’m grateful to her for that one!
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@ Helena
I understand that the purpose of that blog is to “prove” Michael was heterosexual. I 100% believe he was! There’s no disagreement between us about that or the one who wrote that blog. However I think sometimes these people who want to show the world he was not gay or a p. turn a bit desperate about it and therefore are willing to give credit to any tabloid story that says Michael dated this and that woman or had sex with this and that woman. I have to say there are a lot of stories on that blog I don’t believe AT ALL and that I think are just made up tabloid stories with no credit to them.
Just because it’s a woman who claims to have had sex with Michael I don’t automatically take it as the truth. I say this with regards to that blog in general.
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“BTW, I read into that long, long blog entry and I’m at the article where Debbie put the wedding ring she got from Michael on Ebay. A love story? I don’t think so.”
Just keep reading.
P.S. I don’t insist though. Maybe they were in love with each other, maybe not. One day Debbie will tell us if she wants to.
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Hello Suzy and Helena: I have to agree with Suzy, I don’t believe that Michael Jackson ever loved DR. I think she was his surrogate, and nothing more. I think Micheal saw women as a opportunity for his own egocentric self. (A man loves hearing and being adored as Micheal did.) I think Micheal Jackson loved the stage more than any woman. I think he loved being a entertainer first and a father second. I also think that he was still a humanitarian until the end of this life. I think he loved our planet. I think that the tabloid media and the entertainment industry tried to taint his image and his success was a threat to their well being. They all wanted to make money off of Micheal’s successes. I think children loved Micheal because they saw the fun side of Micheal Jackson especially his sense of humor. Children loved this about him. I think Adults saw manipulation and money when they heard or saw his name. I think adults feel threatened by him because they did not understand how he was. but I truly think he was as normal as anyone could be. I think some people truly wanted him to be happy, and I for one was glad to see that he was happy to be a father and making all of his dreams come true, even if it was with people that were not the most sincerest of people on the planet, but again whom am I to judge. I only know and don’t believe anything I read in the tabloids or elsewhere. I am just thankful to Jesus that MJ can rest in peace.
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Tereasa said;
“Can someone please explain to me how any woman on this planet can be married to a man just knowing that he wants you for the children and that he doesn’t want to live with you as your husband.”
Maybe because she loved him. Maybe loved him enough to give him what he wanted most. We cannot know all the ins and outs. Michael did not discuss this, Debbie does not discuss this and all the rest tells a tale which suits them best, which headlines grab the most attention, fits with installing a perception or even selling albums. There is a new story about Michael and Dave Dave. For many he may have been someone whose physical appearance should not have fit into Michael’s world. I suspect if Debbie was willing to change herself and take on an appearance that others expected Michael’s former wife to have, to publicly have mocked or discuss her time with him, and lay all blame for their divorce on him she would be more widely embraced as his wife by our community. Its’ working for LMP.
Most of the community seems not to be aware that when the assault on Michael by Carl Tom’s book was taking place that it was Mac and Debbie we instinctively turned to for help to shut this thing down. (instinctively…why?) It was Debbie who has worked behind the scenes, no public shows of influence to lead support to quieting several negative programs on Michael. When it is time to defend the castle she’d be the one in the fight, not sitting in the parlor drinking tea with the enemy. This is a woman that I can get behind. This is the wife of Michael I respect.
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@ Helena
Sorry, but I don’t buy Michael was ever in love or sexually interested in Debbie Rowe at all and these “kiss-and-tell” “friends” who are doing interviews with tabloids (for money, I’d assume) don’t sound too credible to me.
I’m really sorry Helena, but I just don’t believe in a love story between Debbie and Michael, no matter how desperately some are trying to “prove” this. I just don’t see this between them. A friendship, for a while, maybe. Love, romance, sexual interest – I don’t think so.
BTW, I read into that long, long blog entry and I’m at the article where Debbie put the wedding ring she got from Michael on Ebay. A love story? I don’t think so.
Or this too is interesting:
Q106, San Diego, California: Was this a surprise for you?
KATHERINE JACKSON: Yes, it was in a way.
Q106: Did you know her, have you met her?
JACKSON: I’ve never met her.
Q106: Did Michael ever talk to you about her?
JACKSON: Oh, sometimes.
Q106: Did he talk to you in a way that you would think maybe, he was in love with her, or one day might want to marry her? Or this would be it?
JACKSON: Not exactly.
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“I think we need to respect the Private side to Micheal Jackson.”
Absolutely, Teresa. And we are very much trying to. However this blog is a place where we refute haters’ lies about Michael including a well-sread lie that Michael was not interested in women and that his marriage to LMP was a sham. So the proof that their marriage was real is not just a curiosity on our part (well yes, just a little bit), but a way to explain to Michael’s doubters that he was a completely NORMAL HETEROSEXUAL MAN. And if the same goes for Debbie’s marriage as we see it now, this news comes as a very welcome and nice surprise (and I am really happy that she was happy with Michael…).
See how the worst of Michael’s detractors, Victor Gutierrez lies about Michael and Lisa Marie:
“The marriage of Jackson and Lisa Marie had the potential of creating favorable publicity for Jackson. It would make Jackson appear more wholesome, and reduce suspicion of his being a p. The couple, though, seemed to have fooled no one in the press or the public. They certainly did not fool the Judge who married them, Hugo Alvarez Perez. He explained that from the moment they asked him to perform the ceremony he realized that in was a “false” marriage.
While Jackson considered getting married on a plane, the wedding was done in the Judge’s own house, so that nobody would know it was occurring, and in that way there would be no journalists present. It was obvious why Jackson didn’t want the press to see his marriage. According to the Judge, “Before I began to conduct the wedding, a witness that accompanied Lisa Marie, Eve Darling [married to the brother of Lisa Marie’s ex-husband], told me in front of the bride and groom that ‘No one is going to kiss here’. When I told this woman that it was a custom in this country for the bride and groom to kiss each other, she told me, ‘Fine, but his couple isn’t going to kiss’. The strange thing was that the bride and groom didn’t say anything. Darling then asked the Judge to make it as quick as possible and “to save the religious things and details for another occasion”.
The Judge was irritated by this sort of atmosphere at a wedding. (Michael was also disappointed, by the way). “I have married more than 300 couple to date,”the Judge said, and I can tell the difference between the false ones and the ones based on true feelings. But I had never seen a couple that was colder, had less feeling, and was more fake than this one”.
The ceremony continued, and Jackson and Lisa Marie began laughing at what they were doing and “I asked them to be serious, but then I thought to myself that it was a ridiculous thing anyway,” Judge Alvarez explained. Upon terminating the ceremony, and at the Judge’s prodding, the bride and groom gave each other a quick kiss.
Judge Alvarez was also bothered by the fact that the bride lied to him. “When I asked Lisa Marie what her civil status was, she told me she was single. Days later, I was told that she had been divorced a few days back [May 3] on this same island.” According to Dominican Republic law, a woman must wait nine months after being divorced to get married for a second time (perfect reason not to disclose the marriage to the press). The law has a clause that says that a woman can get remarried and not wait the nine months only if she is pregnant. From there came the first rumor that Lisa Marie was pregnant with Jackson’s child, a rumor which was apparently circulated to avoid the technical annulment of the marriage (oh, they could have annulled it too if they had learned?)
Months after the wedding, Judge Alvarez was surprised to see Lisa Marie in the North American press proudly showing her wedding ring with its huge diamond. Upon seeing her photograph, the Judge laughed and said, “Lies! I have never seen a couple of bigger liars that these two. The wedding ring was a normal gold band. The one in the photograph has diamonds and was not the one I saw on the hands of that woman. I promise you I have never married a couple with more problems that this one”.
Jackson and Lisa Marie began to make public appearances together.(Now read carefully please. Each word is a precious gem). The reason? We can imagine. The press had reported that Jackson had spent a weekend alone with a minor boy, Wade Robson, who was photographed getting in a limo which took him to Jackson’s ranch. Where was Lisa Marie? In her house more than 50 miles away living separately with her two children! On other occasions Lisa Marie was seen vacationing with her ex-husband.
The fact that Lisa Marie was romantic with her ex-husband and not with Jackson was becoming more obvious each day. The King of Pop continued to receive young boys at his ranch, while Lisa Marie enjoyed the company of her true love.
News of Jackson’s marriage to the daughter of Elvis Presley soon became known to all the world, including Jordie. Jordie could not believe what he was seeing on the TV. It was a shock for Jordie,” one of this friends commented. “He was resting on the bed, and while he was watching the TV he saw the image of Jackson and it caught his attention. It was about his friend’s marriage. He said he didn’t believe it. Michael hates women! He made me learn some phrases about how to hate women. Jordie thinks Michael got married so he could pass for a man [heterosexual]. No one was convinced, least of all his ex-lover”.
Full story on this pathalogical liar: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/09/30/lisa-maria-presley-vs-victor-gutierrez-i-will-always-love-you-michael/
MICHAEL hates women???
I am afraid it is VICTOR GUTIERREZ who hates women – he has never been married, has no children and ‘lives with his widowed mother’ as he said in one of the articles.
He describes himself as not gay – ‘it is his partner who is gay’ according to his own admission.
And judging by Victor Gutierrez’s non-stop interest in the ‘boys issue’ and by the fact that he attended highly secretive sessions of the NAMBLA congress there is every reason to believe that his ‘partners’ are youngsters and he is the one who is a REAL p-le.
Just imagine that Diane Dimond called Victor Gutierrez her BEST SOURCE!
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Suzy: When I said about Jimi Hendrix, was that in the 70’s they may have had tabloid newspapers but I don’t think Jimi Hendrix participated in them, They had some talk shows and interviewers and Jimi did participate in them, But I never saw pictures of Jimi with any woman, no one spread rumors about Jimi being gay, Jimi was basically in the entertainment industry in the 1950, 1960’s to make money and that is how I saw it. He did not try to manipulate anything of any kind that I have seen. Jimi was a gentlemen as I have heard people talk about Jimi after his death and had nothing but positive things to say, unlike Micheal who have people on both sides. People who like him and people who dislike him and his personal life in the tabloids and the media manipulating his image to make money and slinging mud. I don’t think they did a lot of that in the 50’s and 60’s. I think as time has gone on the media would lie about MJ, and MJ would lie back or try to manipulate back and I think he probably wanted to be left alone and I think for some celebrities they have to take what comes with the entertainment industry which happens to be the talk shows and the tabloid media. Its just part of the times. I think the social media has gotten worse as years go by. Princess Diana is a prime example of this.
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“personally don’t believe what Debbie Rowe said in that article – if she said all those at all, because it sure sounds very, very tabloidish. I actually doubt very much she really said this. It’s typical tabloid-language that I see there.”
I agree, it does sound tabloish. But if you read the rest of that thread you’ll see that there is much more to that relationship than we originally thought – even if you disregard half of it as tabloid trash. Look at these excerpts, for example:
Magic/Madness, 1995
Lisa Marie’s friend Monica Pastelle says: ‘I recall Lisa telling me that Michael was trying to make her believe he was interested in a white nurse who worked for his dermatologist. Lisa just laughed it off. She thought Michael was trying to make her jealous, just playing games.’
‘But it was true, just the same: Michael was seeing Debbie Rowe while he was married to Lisa,’ says Monica Pastelle. ‘And Lisa knew it. At one point, she and Debbie had a tense telephone conversation during which Lisa said: “Look, nursey. I’m sorry that you’re in love with my husband. But he’s mine. So get lost”.
‘Afterwards, Lisa burst out laughing. She said: “Can you imagine? Me acting like the jealous little wife because Michael’s wet nurse -or whatever she is- is in love with him. What is this craziness?” ‘
San Jose Mercury News, People, Entertainment Wire
Michael Jackson and Debbie Rowe were married on November 14, 1996, in Sydney, Australia. Reports soon followed in the Australian tabloids that Debbie was asking for a divorce. At length, tired of immodest speculation in the media, Michael and Debbie issued a press release on January 6, 1997, in which they said, “Deborah has been extremely upset by the flagrant fabrications and utter lies that have been published about her and the false statements attributed to her father which he never made. Deborah’s father supports her decisions 100 percent. Not inclined to respond to false and vicious reports, Deborah is adamant about again setting the record straight that Michael is the father of the child, the pregnancy is not the result of artificial means, that she has not been paid to have Michael’s baby, and that she is not seeking or filing for a divorce.”
November 7th 1996
The nervous nurse who is bearing Michael Jackson’s glove-child may be cracking under the media glare.
Debbie Rowe has been dodging reporters ever since word of her peculiar pregnancy leaked out.
And worried pals yesterday said a 37-year-old woman in her condition should be taking it easy.
“I’m very worried about her right now,” Tonya Watts told “Hard Copy” last night. “I’m worried that the stress might be affecting her.”
“I don’t think she was ready” for all the attention, added Kevin Forrest, who along with Watts lives in the same Los Angeles apartment complex as Rowe.
As for the 38-year-old Jackson, Watts said, “Michael is actually very normal.”
“Everyone has a hard time seeing they are normal, two normal friends,” she said of the soon-to-be parents.
Jackson announced this week that Rowe was pregnant with his child, and denied reports that she was artificially inseminated.
But the mascara-wearing superstar has been unable to dodge suspicion that the pregnancy like his failed marriage to Lisa Marie Presley is an attempt to repair a public image that was damaged by accusations that he molested a 13-year-old boy. Jackson insists he’s innocent.
Watts insisted the pregnancy was for real.
“She didn’t break it to us until recently,” said Watts. “I mean we are all neighbors and great friends, and we have hung out a lot. But she would never tell us who the child belonged to.”
“She is very excited to give Michael something he has always wanted,” she added. “It’s like a dream come true.”
Rowe was quoted in the tab as saying that she and the Gloved One had sex but didn’t conceive. “Michael then said that artificial insemination would be a foolproof way of doing it and he was proven right,” she reportedly said.
Toledo Blade, Jul 14, 1997
WE LOVE to tell you the latest on MICHAEL JACKSON and DEBBIE ROWE. I guess that’s because we know an insider in the Jackson camp who loves to tell us. Sharing — that’s what it’s all about. Anyway, Debbie, MJ and baby Prince continue their royal progress through Europe, while Michael plays to sold-out stadiums. Although Debbie is not at all a grandiose type — “just a home girl,” as she often jokes — she can’t help being thrilled by the nearly royal reception she receives whenever she’s spotted by the fans. ”Its almost a Princess Diana thing”, says my source, who has witness the frenzy.` Debbie’s boss, dermatologist Dr. Arnie Klein, is missing her presence in his office, so she will return to her ordinary day job in LA as soon as Michael finishes his tour. As for another Jackson baby, our acute and observant source says, “I believe No. 2 will be on its way.Debbie herself seems totally happy and fulfilled. “We are really in love,” she said recently, “and Michael has been so romantic.’
June 22, 1997
So What’s new on the Michael Jackson/Debbie Rowe front? Mr. and Mrs. “King of Pop” are currently on a weeklong rendezvous in some secluded European hideaway – a country known for its divine chocolate. They are actively performing their martial duties, in hopes of bringing forth another little Jackson. I hear that Michael “just loves” these romantic vacations with his wife.
I also hear that Debbie intends to slap several of the supermarket tabs with lawsuits, demanding retractions on their stories about her relationship with Michael.
OK Magazine Interview April 1997
Interviewer: Michael, how does it feel to be a father?
Michael: It was an incredibly joyful experience. I’m in bliss 24 hours a day.
Interviewer: Can you talk us through the birth of your son?
Michael: It’s hard to take it step by step, but the snapshots in my mind from the birth show our excitement and nervousness. Debbie was so strong throughout the delivery. There were shouts of joy when the baby was born. I couldn’t believe the miracle I had witnessed. It was unbelievable!
Interviewer: Michael, describe the relationship between yourself and Debbie?
Michael: Debbie and I love each other for all the reasons you will never see on stage or in pictures. I fell for the beautiful, unpretentious, giving person that she is, and she fell for me, just being me.
Interviewer: Debbie, what are you current feelings for Michael?
Debbie: I love him even more now than before our son was born. Fatherhood has brought out a very protective streak in him. He is so loving and strong.
Interviewer: What is the boy’s name? Why is he so named and which of you does he look like the most?
Michael: His name is Prince Michael Junior. My grandfather and great-grandfather were both named Prince, so we have carried on that tradition and now we have a third Prince in the family.
Debbie: He’s so beautiful! I think he has my eyes.
Interviewer: Michael, among all your life’s glittering achievements, how does fatherhood rate?
Michael: Words can’t describe it. There is no miracle in life that compares with watching your son come into the world.
Interviewer: Has the baby smiled or responded in any way to the two of you yet?
Michael: He smiles all the time and his eyes twinkle when I sing to him. He definitely knows my voice. Debbie tickles his chin and he giggles.
Interviewer: Debbie, does Michael change the baby’s nappies, get up in the middle of the night to feed him and do his share of the chores?
Debbie: Yes, Michael does everything. He loves being involved in every aspect of caring for the baby. He is such a wonderful father, feeding him, holding him and of course, singing to him.
Interviewer: Debbie, you have married and had a baby with the most famous man on earth. What effect has that had on you?
Debbie: I have married and had a baby with the man I will always love and I am on top of the world. The only time I feel sad is when I see quotes attributed to me that I never said. Or when I hear late night comedians taking cheap shots at my husband when they are not true. Don’t believe 99% of the garbage you read or hear. I know that we will be under increasing public scrutiny and I don’t look forward to that, but I know that will always be a part of being married to Michael.
Interviewer: Michael, you so rarely give interviews. What is the one thing you would like to say to your fans at this time?
Michael: Thank you to all of my fans for understanding how important it is to me to protect my family from the public eye. I have lived in a “fishbowl” all my life and I want my son to live a normal life. You’ve stood by me throughout my career and now you share my greatest joy. I love you.
Interviewer: Michael, what are your hopes for Prince Michael Junior’s future?
Michael: I want him to grow up surrounded by love and family, to receive the best education I can provide him with, to discover and develop his talents, and to use his resources to make life better for those less fortunate than he.
Interviewer: Are you preventing Debbie from seeing the child?
Michael: No, that is completely false. We have been together as a family since the birth of our son, and we’ve cherished every moment as a family.
Interviewer: Michael, what has been your family’s reaction to the birth?
Michael: They are all very excited. I’m already getting lots of tips and advice about schools and such.
Interviewer: What sort of dad will you try to be?
Michael: The best! My father was always there for us through the stardom of the Jackson Five and through many of the ups and downs that followed. I too will always be there for my son. It’s the most important thing in the world to me.
Interviewer: Debbie, what are your family’s feelings about Michael?
Debbie: They’re crazy about him. They were delighted to discover how warm and genuine he is.
Interviewer: And how would you describe Michael’s strengths as a father?
Debbie: He’s very patient and protective. He never rushes what he’s doing with the baby. I was very proud of how tough he was about our privacy. He’s incredibly strong.
Interviewer: Michael, are you still close to your family? How often do you see your parents, brothers and sisters? Have they met your baby yet?
Michael: We talk and see each other all the time. We recently had a big ‘get-together’ where all the cousins met one another for the first time.
Interviewer: We believe the child’s godmother may be Elizabeth Taylor. What is it that draws you to Elizabeth? Many would call it an unlikely friendship. What do you have in common?
Michael: Elizabeth knew many of the things I went through growing up in the spotlight. I can say a few words or just sigh sometimes, and she knows what I’m feeling. It was wonderful to find someone who understood me so well. I pray for her, and I want her to share the joy of my son’s birth for many years to come.
Interviewer: What sort of gifts have you received for Prince Michael Junior?
Michael: We’ve received some fantastic gifts; wonderful treasures, stuffed animals, toys and baby clothes from around the world. We would like to take this opportunity to thank all my wonderful fans for helping to welcome our baby into the world!
Interviewer: Michael, what are Debbie’s strengths as a mother?
Michael: Debbie is a very strong and caring woman. She’s a wonderful mother!
Interviewer: Can we expect a song about your son on your new album?
Michael: The birth of my son has been very inspirational to me artistically, and there will definitely be a song in the future.
Interviewer: And one about Debbie, too?
Michael: Any song about my son has to be about Debbie as well.
(the thread is so long that I am not finished with it yet)
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Suzy and Helena: I believe that you cannot believe everything you read about any of these people especially with the media involved, I don’t believe anything about this soap opera mess of peoples lives. I don’t read the tabloids never have and never will and will never care to read a tabloid about anyone, I just wish that Hollywood and the entertainment industry would find a more suitable way to entertain people besides there dramatic lives which in a lot of celebrities get something out of being in the tabloids. I think that respectful people stay away from the trash on the shelves, (But they are printing it knowing people will buy out of curiousity and nothing more.) Alot of the celebrities in them are depending on people being curious. But I for one am a more grown up and can handle my own life and could care a less about what happens in celebrities lives. There is a lot I understand and from how I see it Micheal Jackson’s life changed a lot as he aged and you could tell in the end that he loved his children and that is all that mattered to him.
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@ Teresa
Yes, Michael’s lifestyle was unconventional. But his upbringing and whole life was unconventional as well. Who are we to judge him?
I’m not sure what you mean by “he would have been more admired if he would have seen and done things more privately. The way Jimi Hendrix did”. I think Michael was one of the most private celebrities. In fact, the problem was that for the media he was too private and so the media made up stories about his private life to fill in the gaps.
I think Michael was as private as a superstar of his status could ever be.
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@ Helena
And not just body language. But had Michael really been in love with DR, would he have kept up his relationship with LMP for four more years after their divorce? I don’t think so. And had it been a real relationship in any form, would DR have been so cool about Michael flying around the world with LMP? I don’t think so.
To me everything about that “relationship” seems strictly business. I think she was a surrogate, nothing more (I don’t even think they ever slept together, to be honest) and I think he only married her so that he would have it easier to get custody over the kids. It’s not different to when people get married for citizenship.
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@ Helena
I personally don’t believe what Debbie Rowe said in that article – if she said all those at all, because it sure sounds very, very tabloidish. I actually doubt very much she really said this. It’s typical tabloid-language that I see there.
To me body language tells that Michael was never attracted to Debbie. It’s a different story with LMP – that one was real, I never had any doubt about that.
“Break of dawn” can be about LMP, of course. But it can be about someone else too. Or nobody at all.
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Hello, after much reading over material that has been sent, I see these peoples lives as a soap opera. I think that people would have been respected more if everyone would quit interviewing these people (Debbie,LMP) and I have to admit I admire people that keep their sex lives in the bedrooms and not out in public. Micheal says things to the media and than turns around and does another and than the women turn around and talk about their sex lives as if everyone should be envious (which is not the case with all women.) I think Micheal loved women that he never mentioned and he even said so in his book Moonwalk. I think that he fantisized about these women. (But I think that is with all men.) I think there is a very different side to Micheal that no one knows about except for Micheal. I also think there are women that he not only loved but respected as women and he kept who they were to himself. I think of all things he felt things and had compassion for some people and he would never tell. I think we need to respect the Private side to Micheal Jackson.
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Suzy: I do understand no one can explain his decisions but He could have done things much differently and came out with a much better outcome. I do agree with the way Debbie behaved but a lot of things concerning Micheal have to do with three things: #1 The Media which he manipulated like a circus performer: #2 Women: Which he saw as opportunities for investments in future children which also meant money for his estate. #3 His personal name which he also used to make money for his estate. You are right, He is not doing anything that has not been done by people, many people in the biblical era even though the people of today do not have to agree with the lifestyles of the people back in the era of when the bible stories were written. I think he would have been more admired if he would have seen and done things more privately. The way Jimi Hendrix did.
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“how any woman on this planet can be married to a man just knowing that he wants you for the children and that he doesn’t want to live with you as your husband”
Teresa, I haven’t been able to find the article I’ve stored in my computer to be able to answer your question but here is something much better – Lasienegasmiled blog is offering us a full story about Debbie and Michael complete with this episode:
Daily Record, July 26, 1997
Michael Jackson is a hunk in the bunk, according to his wife Debbie Rowe. Speaking for the first time about their bizarre marriage, Debbie said Michael Jackson lives to make love round the clock. Debbie, 38, said she doesn’t give a hoot that he and first wife Lisa Marie Presley spent time together in London recently.
And she revealed he wants a bunch of kids and plans to name them ALL Prince, just like the baby boy she had for him.
Fun-loving nurse Debbie insists she and Jackson can hardly keep their hands off each other and have sex whenever they can. “I can’t wait to see him again,” she said. “We’re going to stay all day and night in bed – I can’t wait.”
And if you read the rest of the story in the fabulous Lasienegasmiled blog you’ll see that there seems to be much truth behind it: http://lacienegasmiled.wordpress.com/2010/07/31/1995-1999-debbie-rowe/
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“I really think Michael had more women in his life than what first meets the eye.”
Sure he did.
“Debbie Rowe, about whom I don’t think was a real relationship, BTW – that one was just for the children”
I also thought it was a formal arrangement between them until I once came across an article where Debbie Rowe said that Michael could make love ’round the clock’. How would she know about it unless it was real for them? I’ve been trying to find the link (have stored it somewhere) but can’t do it at the moment.
“So we cannot know about whom such lyrics are exactly about”
Of course we cannot know intimate things like that, however Michael sings that “people talk, people say that what we have is just a game” and it is exactly his relations with LMP which people talked about in this way. So why can’t this song be about her after all?
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@ Teresa
I don’t think it’s my place to explain to you why Michael took some decisions in his life. But let me remind you of one thing: it wasn’t Michael who demanded or asked Debbie Rowe to give him children. She offered herself to him – and while he was married to another woman, no less. So make no mistake, Debbie Rowe is not a victim here. She was treated as a “slot machine” because she behaved like one. My personal opinion is that she was no more than a surrogate. Maybe she hoped that this way she could tie Michael to her, but it doesn’t work like that.
As for what is “biblical”. What did Abraham do when Sarah couldn’t give him children? He took Sarah’s servant Hagar and made children with her, although he loved Sarah and not Hagar.
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@Helena and Suzy: Can someone please explain to me how any woman on this planet can be married to a man just knowing that he wants you for the children and that he doesn’t want to live with you as your husband, and he doesn’t want you for a mother, I don’t understand how people can want what a person has to give this world but not want the person who is being the giver. To me that is unbiblical. (it is like saying you want what god has to give you but you don’t want god!) Women are not slot machines and they are not vending machines either and should not be treated as such. Maybe I am too idealistic but I could not let a man treat me in that respect, I believe all children deserve a loving mother and a loving father who love each other to teach children how God loves each and every person on this planet with respect and love towards one another, as I have been raised.
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@ Helena
I really think Michael had more women in his life than what first meets the eye. No, I don’t think he was an undercover womanizer or there were very many, like a certain type of his fans seem to think, but there were more than just LMP (or Debbie Rowe, about whom I don’t think was a real relationship, BTW – that one was just for the children). So we cannot know about whom such lyrics are exactly about – or if they are about any specific person or experience at all.
Michael himself said in his book, Moonwalk that people make the mistake of thinking every song he writes is about a life experience he had, but sometimes they are just based on fantasy.
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“Break of Dawn wasn’t dedicated to LMP though.”
Rockforeveron, and who are these lyrics about then?
People talk, people say what we have is just a game
Oh, I’ll never let you go, come here girl
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http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/showbiz/2010/10/21/sbt.lisa.marie.presley.hln
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Break of Dawn wasn’t dedicated to LMP though.
Otherwise, there’s so much evidence that they were a real couple who married because they loved each other, that everything said to the contrary is some stretched out fabrication. Notice how all the people commenting aren’t even people who knew either of them, just people who happened to witness they marry? Why not ask Lisa or Michael’s friends and see how real that marriage was.
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Mailla, in the links you’ve provided about MJ and LMP the people say so much nonsense that I’m afraid I’ll have to make a post about it.
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http://gaylekingshow.com/b/Oprah-on-Lisa-Marie-Presley,-Tyler-Perry,-and-More!/280625847450770223.html
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Part 2
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Part 1
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Some more LMP interview clips on Michael
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Here’s a very interesting article titled “Did The King destroy Lisa Marie’s marriage?”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-150606/Did-The-King-destroy-Lisa-Maries-marriage.html
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Apparently, Lisa regretted not having Michael’s child.
In this clip, she discusses the divorce & sounds very hurt. Would she have been distraught over her “sham” marriage ending ?
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This interview was rather upsetting. Lisa felt so mocked for marrying Michael that she fell right into the mediaLOID’s lair of anti-MJ bashing. She should have shown more courage.
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I do believe Victor is disgusted by the idea of Michael loving a woman. He needs to believe his own fictional crap about Michael being a homosexual p-le. MANY people do.
The videos below proof this. Notice how Diane question Lisa over her attraction to Michael?
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I just want to add that a lot of these movie/rock stars are walking soap opera boxes that would never tell the world about their whole truth. I think there is always more to a famous persons life than meets everyone’s eyes, and I think they deserve as much of a private life as the rest of the population on this planet, I also believe that their private life needs to be respected and there are a lot of things about a lot of peoples lives that needs to be kept private and not take everything you see and hear as gospel. I think a lot of people are too nosy and need to stay with their own lives and quite worrying about other peoples lives and how they choose to live them. I think that popular people put stuff in the media because the popular people are getting some satisfaction out of people’s curiosity and that is only feeding the popular peoples egos and pocket books.
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Lulu, your collection of videos about Michael and LMP is impressive – thanks for sharing it. When you look at them it is almost impossible to believe that there was a time when nearly everyone thought their marriage was sham.
When you see the openly adoring way she looks at him and presses herself at him one realizes that we were BLIND, DEAF and completely IDIOTIC to think absurd things about the couple and to never allow them to live a life of their own without each and everybody thinking it necessary to intrude into it.
Victor Gutierrez’s lies about them now sound not only outrageous – they are quickly turning into something pathetic. He is clearly projecting his own perverse mind on Michael and when he thinks he is writing about Michael he is actually revealing his own monstrous inner self.
VG’s obsession with Michael is totally unnatural – have you noticed that Gutierrez sounds like being offended by the idea that Michael could be in love with a woman? Is it a gay man talking or is it someone so perverse that it is frightening even to look at all the slime in his inside?
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“Elena I hope you don’t mind but I found a great article to add to this post.”
Lynette, dear, I haven’t yet seen the addition yet it but I don’t mind it at all. Guys, I’m happy to be back with you at last but Lynette, I had a big trouble entering the blog (the password didn’t work).
Tomorrow I hope to read all the comments and move on with the work here if my computer is okay. Lynette, if you have any other scanned pages of that VG’s science fiction please send me more.
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Slightly off topic: Oprah did a just released interview with FORTUNE magazine. In this interview, she talked about conquering her “fear” over creating the OWN network after finishing the 25 year phenomenon that was her talk show. She peculiarly felt the need to bring up Michael Jackson (typical attention-seeking). She discussed reading an “article” on how Michael chased the Thriller phenomenon & how the success of the album “paralyzed” him. If having 6 #1 albums, 13 #1 hits, the most awards of any solo artist, etc. is “paralyzing”, Michael was a quadriplegic.
I wonder what tabloid assassin Oprah (a well known MJ detractor) was reading.
The response to this FORTUNE article clearly wasn’t positive. The author released a “back story” to Oprah’s comments about Michael in her interview. See the power MJ fans have 🙂
http://postcards.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2010/10/04/oprah-doesnt-want-to-be-michael-jackson-the-back-story/
As for Lisa Marie, she has already filmed an interview with Oprah in England (her new place of residence) It interview was confirmed by Michael’s former make-up artist Karen Faye.
Karen “somehow” overcame her dislike for Lisa and defended Lisa’s right to speak out about Michael’s death.
Here’s a description for the upcoming interview (the date it’s airing is not confirmed yet)
Episode Detail: For the First Time Lisa Marie Presley Speaks Out About the Death of Ex-Husband Michael Jackson – Oprah Winfrey
Lisa Marie Presley discusses the death of Michael Jackson, reflects on her marriage to the King of Pop, and explores parallels between Jackson and her father, Elvis Presley
IMO Lisa really needs to STOP talking about Michael. She has young twins & a husband to think about. She is NOT sorry for maligning him in the press. She’s sorry that he died. It’s not necessary for her to re-adress her marriage to him that ended FOURTEEN years ago. Woops what am I saying? Lisa has a new album coming out soon. Discussing Michael equals much needed publicity.
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And as for Judge Perez not wanting anybody to know that he was talking about it What a fantastic fabrication of facts that would be for the person who read about 1,100 articles ( in one of my article archeological digs) with that man saying they got married and them denying it. As a matter of fact I was so tired of them by time I was finished i couldn’t see straight reading the same thing over and over again can be very tiring. Yep our little Victor sure did have an active imagination.
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Elena I hope you don’t mind but I found a great article to add to this post. I added it so if you want to edit it go ahead. It is one I found that does actually confirm that Evan Chandler swore in his deposition for his 1996 case that Michael and Lisa planned to get married to make him look bad. HE SAYS IT WAS ALL PART OF A MASTER PLAN!!! LOL sorry but everybody does need a little comic relief and this is good stuff.
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cindy
thank you for saying that because although I do believe their was a part of lisa marie that did love michael i still was not really convinced. I too watched the oprah interview where her mother said that she felt that michael only married lisa marie too use her. I was waiting for oprah to ask priscilla presely why she continues to keep the presely name after SHE DIVORCED HIM BACK IN THE MID 70’S. SO WHO IS USING WHO.
I found lisa marie immature when she started going on the social circuit and cutting up michael. as you will notice Michael did not take his mother and go any interview to bash is ex-wife. I am heartbroken for michael but at the same time she did not deserve him. Oh one more thing…didn’t she know that he wanted kids before they got married. And this big bullshit about
SHE WAS NOT ABLE TO SAVE HIM……SAVE HIM FROM WHAT……
its all over the world even among the haters that michael WAS AN AMAZING FATHER…..I think LMP let her mother stand in the way of her relationship with michael. AND I ALSO BELIEVE THAT HAD MICHAEL AND LMP HAD KIDS…..THERE WAS BE NO REASON FOR HER TO PLAY THE MARTAR AND PRETEND TO WANT TO SAVE HIM.. He only wanted stability and a loving family to come home too….IS THAT A LOT TO ASK?????????!!!!!!!!!!!
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@ella:
DELETED.
reasons:
– insulting the correspondent
– using unacceptable words in respect of Michael Jackson
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@ Pez
Great post!
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@Helena,
“Cindy, with all due respect to you (seriously), I have reasons to believe that it was a great love affair. ”
About this great love affair between Michael Jackson and Lisa-Marie Presley, I doubt it. In love: yes, desperately in love: no. MJ was a man that knew what he wanted and went after it, he was not lazy, or as LMP puts it “half-ass”. If he wanted her back wild horses couldn’t have kept him from her. After his marriage was over and hers they could have gotten back together, but both of them chose not to, they both moved on. The Rabbi’s book sums it up quite nicely. My problem with LMP is she spewed her venom during the molestation trial. Debbie may not have been the most upstanding person, but at least she was the BEST character witness for MJ, while being called by the prosecution. I could say alot more about LMP, but this is not the forum; therefore, I respectfully disagree.
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@ ella
You hit the nail on the head. And they call MJ’s fan ignorant or delusional…
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The music and entertainment industry is full of real pedophiles masquerading themselves as talent scouts, agents, managers, directors, photographers, etc. How convenient it would have been for such a system to label the largest entertainer on the planet that very thing. It would prove a great distraction for the increasingly corrupt, child endangering activities such industry people engage in. The media benefited from the allegations, since they had suffered a “slump” in content at the beginning of the 1990s. The Chandlers gave them much needed base-level tabloid hogwash. The Arvizos just continued the cycle. In 2005, America was at illegal war with Iraq, George W. Bush was destabilizing his own nation & sanctioning criminal behavior by U.S. armed forces. What could be a better distraction then a so-called, once-loved, world famous pop star turned “freakshow” being tried in a Santa Barbra court for molestation, on the international mediaLOID stage, with “legal analysts” and “journalists” awaiting his conviction. As Tom Meserau pointed out, a conviction that would have created a “cottage industry” for the press, giving them even more content in the form of trashy hit piece articles, prison documentaries of Michael’s incarceration, satirical shows interwoven with expert commentary on child molestation and the justice system, etc. No wonder the media hated him. It’s their own fault though. They painted him guilty and perpetuated 20 years worth of lies, to be ultimately embarrassed by a resounding “not guilty on ALL 14 counts”. The mediaLOID lost MILLIONS and MILLIONS that day, which is why the corrupt body of MIS-information will continue to haunt Michael in his death. The courts wouldn’t raise the buck and Michael’s innocence would not allow to assume the cash cow role AGAIN and the expense of his own freedom.
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@Veronique or Desiree or Claire or whatever you call yourself, you are a pathetic troll. You are obsessed with Michael in the worst way. I sense you are homophobic, ignorant, and narrow-minded. It’s a thin line between love and hate. You clearly have some hateful hatred love of Michael which is why you are drawn to this blog. Think about all the people who have been FALSELY accused of having inappropriate relationships with children (a great percentage of child sex abuse cases involve LIES). Do you care about these people as much as you care about so-called “victims”. Think about all the PROVEN everyday pedophiles who have been found GUILTY with substantial evidence in the courts. Are you as enraged towards them as you are towards Michael? I doubt it. Hypocrisy is the name of the game for MJ haters. None of you express your disgust for Roman Polanski, a convicted pedophile Hollywood director who hasn’t even SEEN a court room. Deep down many of you believe it is more “acceptable” for a female child to be sexually violated then for a male child to be. That makes you all just as sick as you perceive Michael to be.
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“BTW, a moderator can approve my comment in the post for Analyzing …?”
Eloise, done. It was detained by the filter because of its length. Thank you for the material – it reminded me of how Michael was treated in the police department (kept for 45 minutes in a stinking toilet with policemen mockingly asking him from time to time how he felt about it).
David, it seems that if you collect all that information on Sneddon and his people (including the way they treated Michael during his detention) it will be too much for one post. I suggest you make a series – Sneddon and Co. deserve it – and we later find a way of grouping the posts together under one umbrella title.
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“I cite it almost everyday in our MJJJusticeProject twitter campaign…
Budsgirl, thank you for your help in twittering the information further! I would never know how to do that.
“for 25 years the public has listened to nothing but distorted rubbish from the media bent on destroying this man, NOW we must all stand up and demand that the truth be told. It’s TIME”
Yeess! They have had their say. IT IS MICHAEL’S TIME NOW!
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Ok, I will remember 😉 BTW, a moderator can approve my comment in the post for Analyzing …?
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“By the way that post is another evidence that VG never spoke to Joy. He said she stopped seeing Jackson and strongly believe he was a child molestor but she sent her son back to him in 1995.”
Even if VG did see Joy it could equally be another evidence of his absolutely pathological ability to lie. Joy Robson could have told VG a thousand times that Michael was innocent but for VG it would mean she said he was a p.
NO MATTER WHAT PEOPLE SAID VICTOR GUTIERREZ SANG ONLY ONE SONG – that is why I think it doesn’t really matter whether he did talk to someone or didn’t – his tune is always the same.
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“Gutierrez interviewed the judge and the judge said the union was BS. Do you really think he’s a liar, too?”
No, I don’t think that the judge is a liar. I think he is CYNICAL. Cynical people don’t believe in other people’s good intentions and always attribute to them the worst possible thoughts of their own.
What of it that the ceremony was so plain and didn’t in the least resemble the usual wedding? These were the two most famous young people who were practically hunted for by the media – they were in hiding both from the press and LMP’s mother (and law too as we find out from the judge as LMP didn’t have the right to marry immediately after the divorce).
They had too many reasons to be in the hiding and instead of understanding it the judge was “annoyed by the unusual atmosphere of the wedding”. What the hell does it have to do with him at all? And if they had had a wedding underwater as some couples do? WHAT WOULD THE JUDGE HAVE SAID? I am afraid even to think of his comments… By the way there would have been no kiss either, no guests, no rings and even no papers underwater….
Why do people like this judge think they have the right to pass any judgment on anyone at all? All people live their own lives and you cannot compare a peasant bride and groom who invite a whole village to the wedding with a couple who lives a secluded life hiding from the crowd. LMP by the way also hated the press and tried to avoid it.
The situation with the diamond ring dotted all the “i”s for me with this judge. Okay they used a plain gold ring for the actual ceremony but later he made a real wedding present to her (a diamond ring). For some reason I do understand that there is nothing wrong with it – but for some other strange reason the judge doesn’t. And he says they are liars because of the ring.
Oh, pleeeeeeeese – it is so tiresome and boring to deal with people like that….
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LMP was very angry with Michael around 2002-2003 in her interviews. They definitely didn’t part ways on good terms and probably it was Michael who finally ended the relationship and that’s why LMP was hurting so much and was so furious.
It’s actually a good thing from a certain point of view, because LMP obviously tried to get back at Michael in those interviews and deliberately say some hurtful things about him. That’s how angry exes behave. But not even then she ever claimed that their problems had to do with sex! She always maintained they had sex. She always maintained their sex life was normal. In fact, she said in an interview with Howard Stern that Michael was the one who made the first steps there and he was the initiator for the first time they had sex.
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I like how in some other blogs you have “experts” in MJ sexuality laughing at fans that believe that the marriage between Michael and LMP was not real, call the fan delusional and idiots for believing that MJ was attracted in women and boldly announce they “expert”opinion that he was gay or whatever.
I am not an expert in MJ sexuality,nor i care about it but i would like to deposit my humble opinion.First of all, the fact that he was not parading with women, kissed them,humped them in every single occasion in order to prove that he was THE man, doen not make him a guy or….
Again,i will refer my father as an example.He is a very,very shy person and he is embarassed everytime something conserning sex or relationship is brought up. He simply won’t talk about it.Based on the way he is acting someone would think that he had never a relationship in his life.Oh, but he did. And by the way he loves children too. (In an innocent way. This day you have to clarify that so you won’t end up in a jail)
As far as conserning Michael’s relationship with LMP i have to say that, for a fake marriage she really demostrated some pretty intense feelings agains him. Feeling that a woman who is hurt and jealous usually express.
Well that’s what i think.And for those who think that they are so expert in MJ’s love life, i would like to suggest them to take a look at their own love life.OR THE LACK OF IT
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“LMP & Priscilla were unbelievable mean spirited in interviews when talking about Michael. I remember watching that Oprah (another hypocrite) interview and all three women were joking and belittling Michael.”
Priscilla is mean spirited and has a very limited and narrow outlook (it may be wrong to say it in English but I hope you understand what I mean). Just primitive as a human being with her best feature being her looks only.
LMP is slightly different but also not the right kind for Michael – from what I heard of her she used to be quite rude and nasty and lacked that finesse, delicacy and subtlety which could keep her tuned to Michael’s extremely high and fine frequencies.
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“Anybody can tell me if it is a waste or not?” http://www.scribd.com/doc/17668809/Michael-Jackson-a-psychological-profile
Eloise, thank you for the link – I would want to study it when I am back from vacation. Please remind me of it if I forget. If it is good we will learn from it, if it is incorrect we shouldn’t leave it unattended.
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@vindicate
Sorry I made a mystake but why a judge would talk to someone like VG. He probably didn’t even had the legal right to do so. How could he know it was’nt real, he never talked to them before or after that and it’s certainly not the 1rst quick wedding he made.
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“I think when you are really in love with someone you are willing to share your entire life with that person and love them unconditionally”.
You are right – this is the ideal which very few people manage to attain. Michael said (in his tapes with Shmuley) that he was envious of those couples who lived side by side with each other until old age and wondered how they ever managed that. About himself he said that he was difficult to live with and he knew it . He said he was “such a rolling stone’ and he always “gave his time to someone else’ – someone sick, somebody else’s children and his music.
LMP had a passion for Michael and passion has more to do with sex and not sharing the same ideals as love does. Taraborrelli said that Michael and Lisa had an intense and active sex life. She told a friend that he was ‘hot stuff in bed’ and ‘amazing’ – and she should know, the friend added, because ‘she’s been around’.
So their relations were based on passion, not love – she wanted to have sex with him but didn’t want children by him. And when a woman really loves she is simply dying to have a baby by her man. (I remember one film where a girl couldn’t decide between her two lovers and an older woman asked her – By whom do you want to have a baby? Only after that she was able to decide).
Later on by the way – when LMP implored Michael to “take her back” – she promised to bear him nine children! But he was already having his own kids by Debbie and was torn between LMP who had already let him down once and his responsibilities to the woman who hadn’t let him down…
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“their marriage is no a business and not a smokescreen to cover his “strange” relationship with the children”
Absolutely! Nothing to do with a smokescreen – and this is the main thing Michael’s detractors should remember.
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“why a lawyer would talk to him? He is a high profile lawyer working for celebrities why would he choose to speak to a tabloid journalist and lose all his client?”
Shelly, VG says that the lawyer spoke to the Judge and discussed details of the future marriage ceremony trying to make it top secret without inviting LMP’s mother Priscilla (for example) who was terribly against this marriage – which was probably one of the main reasons to keep away the press from the marriage.
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“how do you know he dedicated “Break of Dawn” to LMP?
Easily – by comparing the dates. Here are a few about the album Invincible:
Released October 30, 2001
Recorded October 1997 – August 2001
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_(Michael_Jackson_album)
For most of that period Michael was still married to Debbie Rowe (they divorced at the end of 1999), but was openly dating Lisa-Maria Presley and holidaying with her and her children (which means they still cared for each other). With all my due respect to Debbie for giving him his wonderful children I don’t doubt for a second that she wasn’t the love of his life – it was a marriage of convenience for him though he did give it a try.
So whatever love song Michael wrote at that time could be dedicated only to LMP.
It is clear that their marriage was never a fake – see among other sites this one: http://www.elvispresleynews.com/LisaMariePresley-MichaelJackson.html
Their relationship was very stormy which is not such a rare occurrence (remember Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton who married and remarried and so on?). And it is exactly because it was so stormy no reasonable person will ever doubt that it was REAL.
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“With all due respect, how can you dare talk about this like it was a great love story or something.”
Cindy, with all due respect to you (seriously), I have reasons to believe that it was a great love affair. All the hateful words LMP said came after the failure of her calls to Michael’s mother and bombarding Michael with letters imploring him to take her back. He somewhat shyly admitted the fact to Shmuley when he asked MJ about it (I am sure Michael was such a gentleman he wouldn’t have ventured such an admission of his free will).
She was humiliated, disappointed, crashed. She was hurt, injured, revengeful and a woman is such a condition is terrible. Don’t you know it yourself? Hate is just another side of passion and vice versa. With love (which is ready to forgive and give oneself away) it is different – those who really love can accept separation, though it is difficult too.
The feelings she had for him calling him Idiot in her song speak to the great passion she had for Michael and her inability to forget him. Those who forget just walk away without looking back… And everything she said about their relations later proved this point.
Even now she is taking care of his memory like no one else in the family – she has been to Michael’s grave together with Karen Faye (whom she had once called a bitch – so she reconciled with her now that they are not dividing Michael’s attention), and after the visit she asked Michael’s fans to send sunflowers to the grave as she felt it was too deserted without his favorite flowers.
EVERYTHING shows that she is still in love. She still cares. And she feels she hasn’t done everything she could have done. And she will have to live with it for the rest of her life.
Why would you want to make her misery even worse than it is by bashing her?
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BTW, it’s funny how haters harp on the fact the marriage only lasted for 19 months. Well, in Hollywood there are a lot of marriages those last a lot shorter. Are they all shams? In fact, LMP’s next marriage to Nicholas Cage only lasted for three months. Was that a sham too?
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I personally think the LMP-Michael marriage wasn’t a sham, but they weren’t meant for each other either and it was a mistake from both sides. But it has nothing to do with Michael’s sexuality. Probably sex was one of the most functional things and one of the strongest bonds between them. (No wonder they kept seeing each other even years after the divorce – up until about 1998/99….)
But Michael desperately wanted children at that point of his life and Lisa didn’t – and there you have a problem after the honeymoon period is over. Also Michael had a problem with drugs and that, understandably, scared Lisa.
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@Teva
I think you misunderstood my post….
I know you weren’t saying that it was fake. I was agreeing. I referring to people constantly bashing him.
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@Denise
I do know they were together after the divorce, and I never said the marriage was fake. I said they had bad timing.
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We all know that MJ sued Victor Guiterez and that other tabloid trash writer Diane Dimond, and although Dimond slithered her way out of it by some ridiculous ‘journalistic shield law’ the judge order Victor Guiteres, to pay Michael Jackso 2.7 million dollars. It was a punitive way to teach the tabloids that they couldn’t just sling mud with impunity. However, the lying Guiterez filed bankruptcy and high tailed his lying ass out of the country. So now he goes place to place and spews his hate-filled malicious lies ad nauseum to any group of idiots who want to believe his particular brand of bullshit. Michael Jackson married Lisa Marie because he loved her and wanted to start a family as he wasn’t the kind of man to have casual sex much less children out of wedlock; it went against his religious upbringing. Rumor has it that she was influenced by her racist uncle NOT to have a bi-racial children with Michael and whether or not that is true is really irrelevant. Fact is, Michael wanted children and a family life, when she refused to fulfill that promise, it pretty much broke his heart. He cut her loose and she obsessed over him for a long time trying to get him back but once the trust was broken it was over for him. As for Lisa Marie saying he was ‘too immature’ to have children, I guess he proved her wrong because he demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt to be a very responsible, loving father to his three beautiful and well mannered children. I will never quite understand the reasoning and the intense desire of some people to make him out to be anything but the gentle soul that he was. All the people who KNEW him tell of a man of great love, charity and goodness. It is only the ignorant and mean spirited money hungry ones who continue with the salacious lies and unfortunately, the others, who eat that stuff up. This site is wonderfully informative and I cite it almost everyday in our MJJJusticeProject twitter campaign…for 25 years the public has listened to nothing but distorted rubbish from the media bent on destroying this man, NOW we must all stand up and demand that the truth be told. It’s TIME
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@Teva,
And people do not know Michael was with Lisa even after the divorce. I was shocked I learned that too. If you were really sick of someone, you wouldn’t hang out with them after your marriage has been terminated.
They were together even after their so-called fake marriage. By the way, I do not think their marriage was a fake, they first met in 1974 , became re- acquainted in 92′ , married in two years later.
Yes, they both had maturity issues, but that didn’t mean that their marriage was because of the allegations.
Here’s a video(s):
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Jimmy Safechuck was married at Neverland that says it all.
Speaking about Michael Jackson – LMP – and bed in the same sentence. She told friends that Michael was a passionate lover and hot in bed. Donald Trump had invited them to stay with him at his home and they spent the entire weekend shut away in their room, I don’t know maybe they were reading to Kill a Mockingbird. I don’t know where V or D, or VG is getting their information, but LMP said children were never in bed with her and Michael when she was giving an interview.
Michael Jackson had a romantic interest in women, what he did not have a romantic connection to was groupies. It took him years to get over Diana Ross.
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@Veronique
you know something. I wasn’t going to answer to you because i usually prefer only to read the posts. But i think that the fact that you have read the book of this Gotieres fellow numerous times has really burned you brain cells. You know, reading too much trash is not healthy for you. Put his book down slowly and go read other things for change.Try letterature books.
This will come as a shock to you, i know, but the things in Gootieres book are not real, they are fiction.With pedophilic content. So based on your logic you must be a pedophile because you read and writte about things conserning sexual intercourses between adults and kids. And based again on your logic you should be locked in a prison.
Go and watch “Prison break”. It’a a very interesting serie and it will keep you away from reading bad stuff
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By the way that post is another evidence that VG never spoke to Joy. He said she stopped seeing Jackson and strongly believe he was a child molestor but she sent her son back to him in 1995.
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I don’t think there marriage was a sham at all. Friends that actually spent time with them all said that Michael and LMP marriage was like any other couple’s marriage. Some marriages last some don’t.
Like Teva said LMP was bitter after the breakup. So she went to all the talking heads on tv and print and did the typical ex-bashing thing. Michael never said a bad word against her in public. Even in those private tapes, he still didn’t say a bad word against her.
So, I believe people like David Nordhal, over that sick twisted VG any day.
Oh, I was wondering if the person that keeps posting under 101 names could be VG himself?
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“Gutierrez interviewed the judge and the judge said the union was BS. Do you really think he’s a liar, too?”
No the judge is not aliar, it’s Gutierrez who is a liar, he never interviewed anyone and certainly not the lawyer is he talking about and it’s obvious that he never interviewed Joy Robson. Sneddon was very well aware of the book, he knew who is the guy and he never mentionned it during the cross examination and there is no way that Mesereau would put someone on the stand who said she thought he was a child molester. Yes she did say she cried and she said things about MJ but she was speaking about things that happened 10 years earlier and she knows that the things she was scared about never happened. By the way she was still friend with him in 2005, Wade invited him at his wedding and she let her son with Michael way after the 1993, that what said during the court transcript and lots of different articles.
“She stated she and Michael would be in bed and then the children would come in and out she went! He cared more about the boys than her, which spells disaster”
She never said that not even in the Diane Sawyer, she just say that the kids were following him everywhere and she said she never saw anything which suggested pedophilia.
She was with him before the allegations started, Evan speak about her in the Chandler tape.
If you want to be credible Veronique you should read stuff about defamation lawsuit in the US. Lots of lawyers, including Greta van Susteren, have already explained it’s almost impossible to sue a journalist in the US because of the malice problem. MJ won the lawsuit against Gutierrez because VG couldn’t give the videotape but he lost against Dumond who said he was performing oral sex on that tape even though she knew there was no tapes.
There was no hush money to Schafesuck. It was denied by everyone including Latoya.
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Having read VG’s book numerous times, I believe his reportage on the relationship was accurate. From the Primetime Live interview, they showed a clip of their wedding ceremony in the Dominican Republic and it was truly bizarre. Michael didn’t even know what finger to out the ring on, let alone did he look remotely amorous OR interested in what was going on.
Gutierrez interviewed the judge and the judge said the union was BS. Do you really think he’s a liar, too?
There was nothing kosher about that union and it is odd that many fans still believe in it’s legitimacy. They were never in love and he treated her like dirt. I am not a LMP sympathizer in the least but I do feel sorry for her.
She stated she and Michael would be in bed and then the children would come in and out she went! He cared more about the boys than her, which spells disaster…
‘Break of Dawn’ was not even about Lisa Marie. Sorry, that’s nonsense. Michael Jackson–not matter how many songs about girls he wrote–was not a heterosexual. Forget the porn; I think he was trying to get himself to like women.
He was gay.
~D.
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Thanks Shelly 😀
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@eloise,
It’s not a hateful text but it’s useless. You won’t learn a thing about him in that text.
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I think Michael did love LMP and she may have loved him at the time as well. When they divorced LMP went into the immature “hollywood ex-bashing”, but Michael didn’t fallen for it. Michael really wanted to have children with LMP and I believe mommy dearest (Priscilla) was against that idea. I also watched an interview where a lady said that even one of LMP’s uncles didn’t want her having kids with Michael, because they would be biracial. Its funny how LMP told Michael she didn’t want to have anymore kids, but when she divorced him. Then married Nicholas Cage. Divorced him then meet this other guy and not to long ago had twins by him.
LMP & Priscilla were unbelievable mean spirited in interviews when talking about Michael. I remember watching that Oprah (another hypocrite) interview and all three women were joking and belittling Michael. LMP always publicly described her marriage to Michael as some biggest mistake she ever made. She did the same during Diane Swayer interview.
While she making the rounds in interviews bashing Michael. She was behind the scenes following after him. Michael said in the Shumley tapes after the divorce, how she would hang out with his mother and he had all these letters from LMP saying “I’ll give you 9 children, I’ll do whatever you want.” Anyway, by that time Michael had moved own.
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By the way, that I have come across, I can not read because English is not my language. Anybody can tell me if it is a waste or not?
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I am sorry but I do not believe in everything I read and I happen to think that these two people were immature people who were in love with the idea of being in love and nothing more. I think when you are really in love with someone you are willing to share your entire life with that person and love them unconditionally. I think they both had a lot to learn about themselves and about love, I think they would have been better off had they seeked some type of marriage counseling before getting into a relationship but if each of them had egos as big as houses and thought they had all the anwsers for being in the relationship than either one of them would not have seen the truth about the other because they were loving each other out of each others’ selfish motives!!!
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By the way Wade Robson said he saw LMP with MJ at Neverland.
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@Shelly
That reminds me of Jeremy’s mother. Instead of going to the police with the tape, meets with Victor Gutierrez. LOL!
I have not seen a person so a liar in my life.
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VG is a professional liar, if his lips are moving he is lying.
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The point I wanted Helena to highlight is that had love in marriage, is no a business and not a smokescreen to cover his “strange” relationship with the children, according the version Gutierrez. How well it has been that marriage is something else.
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“A lawyer who represented Jackson [Robert S.Kauffman] came to visit me weeks before the marriage to offer me the deal,” explained the Judge. “We met in the Ambassador Hotel, where the lawyer asked me to keep total silence regarding the details of the wedding”.”
What a liar, why a lawyer would talk to him? He is a high profile lawyer working for celebrities why would he choose to speak to a tabloid journalist and lose all his client?
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@Helena,
I know the point of the article was to refute VG’s nonsense writing, but LMP is a sore point for fans. I do believe their marriage was real and they loved each other, but they suffered from bad timing, very bad timing. With that being said how do you know he dedicated “Break of Dawn” to LMP? Where is that officially posted? BTW I love the song and think it was one of MJ’s masterpieces.
I think LMP was bitter after her breakup with Michael Jackson which is understandable. What is not understandable is to go on: television, radio and print media to bash him during the the lowest point in his life (2003-2005). Michael Jackson died in 2009, and in 2008 LMP gave an interview to GQ magazine in which she said marrying Michael Jackson was the biggest mistake of her life.
We shall know more about her side of the story as I hear she is planning on writing an autobiography.
However, I do take your point that the marriage was not a fake. One only has to read Taraborelli, or interviews from Joe & Janet, Donald Trump, various music execs and last but not least Raven’s interview with David Nordahl who lived with them for 2 weeks, he said they were very much in love.
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With all due respect, how can you dare talk about this like it was a great love story or something. All so you information on the song dedication is inaccurate. NO where does it say that so it must be your assumption. What she wrote when Michael passed was too little too late! First of all she only gave their marriage 19 months…19 months!! IF you are so in love as you said she was with Michael, you don’t leave after 19 months. You NEVER give up on the ones you love!! Secondly while she was married to Michael she continued to go on family outings with her exhusband set up by her mother who hated Michael! This hurt him deeply. She lied to him about having children and eventually said in one her many interviews bashing him that and I qoute the “he is too immature to be a father”. Last of all if you truly love someone you don’t go around on national television belittling them to anyone who will listen. She humilated and betrayed Michael and even went as far as to say Micheal was “the biggest regret of her life”! If you call that love then I sincerely pity you!! LMP never really loved Michael although I do believe for a long time he loved her at least until she betrayed him on television. The blog she wrote after Michael passed probably came from her guilty conscience and the memories of her father passing in much the same way. If you truly love Michael then you better stop making his marriage to LMP this great romance because it WAS NOT!! If you listen to Rabi Schumley’s taped conversations with Michael, you’ll hear Michael clearly say that he lost love for her because of what she did and he lied to him. So please love Michael and stop insulting him by ignoring all the terrible, terrible things LMP did to him.
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