Discrepancies between Jordan and June Chandler’s stories
This post was prompted by the discrepancy found by a IMDB poster between Jordan Chandler’s interview with psychiatrist Dr. Richard Gardner (to whom he was sent for evaluation of his story on October 6, 1993) and June Chandler’s testimony at the 2005 Arvizo trial.
I decided to make a quick summary of several other contradictory things in the Chandlers’ documents. The package will include the so-called Jordan Chandler’s declaration or statement to Larry Feldman of December 28, 1993 (not a deposition, he never made one!) and a collection of lies told by Ray Chander at various times.
The list of discrepancies is far from complete but I decided not to put off until tomorrow what I can do today and write down what we have for the moment – we can return to the list and supplement it with new information any time. The list will include small and big discrepancies all brought together as you never know which of them will acquire importance in the future.
It starts with the description of which party, Michael Jackson or the Chandlers, wanted further communication with the other party after their first meeting in May 1992.
Ray Chandler says it was Michael Jackson who wanted it. He speaks about it in a conversation with Larry King, discussed here:
CHANDLER: That’s how they met. Michael took the boy’s phone number.
KING: Took it right there? The mother had no complaint about or stepfather had no complaint of the taking of the number by Jackson? There was no reason to think of anything?
CHANDLER: No, at that point it was very innocent. Or seemed innocent.
June Chandler said she gave to Michael Jordan’s number and allowed him to give him a call ( see the trial transcript please), though wife of an employee present during the conversation said June was almost forcing her son on Michael (“It was almost like she was forcing [the boy] on him,” Green recalls. “I think Michael thought he owed the boy something, and that’s when it all started.”).
At the 2005 trial where June Chandler testified she worded it as follows:
Q. …do you recall how long you were with Mr. Jackson and Jordan that day?
A. Briefly. Five minutes. Ten minutes.
Q. And did — was there any information exchanged between you and Mr. Jackson that day?
Q. And what was that?
A. I said, “If you would like to see Jordie or if he could call you or if you’d like to speak to him, here is our number, and you can give him a call.”
Q. And you gave that to Mr. Jackson?
A. Yes, I did.
And Jordan Chandler said in his interview with Dr. Richard Gardner that it was his step-father David Schwartz who gave the telephone to Michael, imploring him to call him:
Jordan: My stepfather took him [Michael] outside to choose a car for him to use. And I guess when my stepfather was outside he said, ‘You don’t have to pay for the car if you just take Jordie’s number and give him a call’.
Dr. Gardner: “Why would your stepfather say that?”
Jordan: “Because my stepfather knows I was interested in Michael Jackson and his music.”
Dr. Gardner: “And this was in your presence?’
Jordan: “No. I was told this by my stepfather.”
Dr.Gardner: “So what happened then?”
Jordan: “Then he [Michael] left.”
Dr. Gardner: “Did he agree to a deal?”
Dr. Gardner: “Okay, then what happened?”
Jordan: “I don’t remember how many days later, but he called me”.
So Michael called Jordan just because it was a deal with Jordan’s stepfather! He was simply fulfilling his promise to him! If he had only known what would come of it…
2. The duration of the phone calls between Michael and Jordan Chandler is also a big mystery.
Jordan’s mother says she was always present during all telephone calls between Michael and Jordan. Altogether there were 8 or 10 of them which lasted from 10 min to an hour and a half.
In Jordan’s statement the duration of telephone conversations between Michael and Jordan is extended up to three hours. He says that the first three-hour call was made from his father’s house, and this was repeated not just once.
However from June Chandler and other sources we know that Jordan stayed at his father’s house on very rare occasions, so repeated and prolonged conversations from Evan Chandler’s house are simply out of the question under such circumstances:
“I received many telephone calls from Michael Jackson. On occasion they lasted as long as three hours.”
HIS MOTHER’S TESTIMONY:
Q. Were you present in the house during the time to observe the length of the conversations between your son and Mr.
A. Yes, I was.
Q. On more than one occasion?
Q. So based upon your observations give us an estimate of the number of times, that you know of, that Mr. Jackson called your son Jordan.
A. I would say eight to ten times.
Q. Could you give the jury some idea of how long these conversations lasted?
A. It was from maybe ten minutes, to an hour, or an hour and a half.
3) Jordan says that on their first visit to Neverland Michael took him and Lily to Toys-R-Us to get anything they wanted. It sounds like they were alone there. And the mother says she was accompanying them.
“One evening he took Lily and me to Toys-R-Us and we were allowed to get anything we wanted”.
“Lily and Jordie and Michael and I went. And they had fun. They were shopping and Michael bought lots of things for them. They picked out stuff, and they were showered with great presents from Toys-R-Us.
4) Jordan says he stayed in Las Vegas for a week. His mother says it was a 2-3 days trip only.
Their difference of opinion is important as it shows that nothing extraordinary happened during that visit, though both claim that this is when the “sleepovers” started and this was accompanied by some “crying” and heated discussion.
Liars! They cannot even remember how long that notable trip lasted!
In late March 93, my mother, Lily and I went to Las Vegas as a guest of Michael Jackson. We stayed at a large suite at the Mirage hotel about a week.
Q. And when you got to Las Vegas, where did you stay, what hotel?
A. The Mirage Hotel.
Q. Do you remember how long you stayed in Las Vegas on this occasion?
A. Two or three nights.
5) Their individual stories of starting the so-called “sleepovers” are a stark contrast to each other.
First they could not agree on how long the stay in Las Vegas lasted, and now they don’t know how the “sharing-the-bed” thing began (one would imagine that it is so important an issue that at least here they would agree, but they do not).
Jordan says the sleepover started one day during that “week” because he was scared to remain alone in this room after the Exorcist movie:
“We stayed at the Mirage hotel for a week (?). One night Michael Jackson and I watched the Exorcist in Michael Jackson’s bedroom. When the movie was over, I was scared. MJ suggested that I spend the night with him, which I did. Although we slept in the same bed there was no physical contact”.
As we know his mother says they stayed at the Mirage hotel for 3 days only. Her story starts with a statement which surprised even Tom Sneddon – on the first night at the hotel the four of them stayed together in one and the same room in their three-room suite (so their separate “sleepover” was ruled out on that night):
Q. Now, when you got to Las Vegas, did you have — obviously you had a room – in The Mirage.
Q. And who was in your room when you first got there? Who was staying in your room?
A. Jordan, myself, Lily and Michael.
Q. All in the same room?
Now comes the point of “how it started”.
June Chandler says that the second night their sleeping arrangements changed. The short of her story:
Jordan and Michael were going to see a Cirque du Soleil performance. It was starting around 11 p.m. at night, but all of a sudden they returned to the hotel at 11.30 p.m. Michael was “crying” and asked “Why are you doing this? Why are you not allowing Jordan to be with me?” Their conversation lasted for some 30-40 minutes until after midnight. Then she says she “relented” and allowed his son to sleep in Michael’s bedroom for the first time.
To more or less reconcile the version Jordan related to Dr. Gardner (about the Exorcist) and his mother’s testimony, we have to assume that they watched the movie (if they did at all) after they came back to the hotel and had that tearful discussion with June Chandler. This is quite possible though given the duration of the film (approx.2:30) it should have ended at 3 in the morning and on the next day they were leaving Las Vegas.
Okay, but what does June Chandler say about the Exorcist movie at all?
She says that “she was told they had seen it”:
Q. Okay. At some point did you all see an Exorcist movie?
Q. Do you recall anyone watching an Exorcist movie?
A. I was told Jordan and Michael watched an Exorcist movie.
All this is very nice of course, except one fact though – to Dr. Richard Gardner Jordan said that the notable soap-opera with “crying” and Michael’s remonstrances with his mother over the possibility to stay in his room for the first time took place after they had seen the movie, and Jordan had already stayed in Michael’s room, and June found out about this fact the next day only, and it was only then that all this “crying” actually took place:
Jordan: “After my mom and Kelly went to sleep, we went to watch the movie The Exorcist. We were in his room, in his bed. And when it was over I was scared, and he said, why don’t you just stay in here. And I did and nothing happened.”
Dr. Gardner: “When you say you stayed in the room – – “
Jordan: “Stayed in the same bed.”
Dr. Gardner: “Slept in the same bed?”
Jordan: “That’s right.”
Dr. Gardner: “When you slept in the same bed was there any physical contact?”
Dr. Gardner: “Was it a big bed?”
Jordan: “Yeah, I think so.”
Dr. Gardner: “So there was no physical contact. What were your thoughts when he said let’s sleep in the same bed?”
Jordan: “Well, I was scared, and I didn’t think anything was going to happen.”
Dr. Gardner: “You were scared of him or scared of the movie?”
Jordan: “The movie. So I said, ‘Okay, that’s fine.” It was like a regular slumber party.”
Dr. Gardner: “Okay, is there anything else to say about that event?”
Jordan: “Just simply that we talked about how they got the idea for The Exorcist. So the next morning, I was with my mom alone and – – ”
Dr. Gardner: “Did your mother know that you had slept in bed with him?”
Jordan: “Well, I’m getting to that. I said, ‘I slept with Michael in the same bed last night,’ and she said, ‘Well, just don’t do it again’.”
Dr. Gardner: “Did she speak to Michael at all?”
Jordan: “Well, I’ll get to that. So when I told Michael the news of the fact that she said don’t do that again – don’t sleep in the same bed – we were alone, Michael and I, and he burst out in tears and said, ‘She can’t set up barricades like that,’ and ‘Nothing could happen, it’s just a simple slumber party type thing,’ and ‘There’s nothing wrong with it’.”
Dr. Gardner: “He said, nothing will happen, there’s nothing wrong with it, and it’s like a slumber party?”
Jordan: “Right. And so, he came – – I don’t remember if I was crying or not but he decided that he had to confront my mom with his feelings about what she said. What he told me he said, ‘There’s nothing wrong with it, you should allow it because it’s simple and fun and you shouldn’t set up barricades.’ And he got my mom feeling so guilty that she just broke down in tears and decided that, okay, I believe you. And Michael somehow got her to agree that there would be no further questions asked. And so from that point on I was in his bed till the end of our relationship.”
Guys, let us make it clear.
In June Chandler’s version of the events they first had a tearful discussion and then Jordan was finally allowed to sleep in Michael’s bedroom. As regards the Exorcist June Chandler says she does not know anything about it, so we assume that they saw it exactly on that very night after she allowed a sleepover.
And in Jordan Chandler’s version they first saw the Exorcist, then his mother found it out, challenged Michael Jackson with her questions, he cried over it and it was after that that she also cried and “relented” to the whole thing.
Now thanks to the attentive reader we have also noticed that in the version of crying before watching the Exorcist Jordan was allegedly present at the tearful conversation, while in the version of crying after the Exorcist Jordan wasn’t present at the conversation as he was only “told by him” [Michael] about it.
Well, how do you like it?
6) Another interesting discrepancy is connected with the so-called “30 days in a row” which Michael Jackson allegedly spent in Jordan and June Chandler’s house.
Ray Chandler thunders over it:
Ray Chandler speaks to Larry King on November 25, 2003:http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0311/25/lkl.00.htmlCHANDLER: And one other place, which I think, you know, is very important to understand that it also occurred in the boy’s home, where he was living with his then family. Michael slept in the boy’s bedroom behind closed doors for 30 nights in a row. Thirty nights in a row.
To answer the above let me refer you to what I’ve written about it earlier (I simply cannot go over all that absurdity again).
Though June Chandler did speak about some vague “30 days” she was quite definite that they were never in a row – she said Michael’s consecutive stays “could be a week or two at a time only:
Q. After you got back from Monaco, did Michael Jackson spend nights at your home?
Q. Were the 30 nights you’ve described after you got back from Monaco?
Q. How many nights after you got back from Monaco do you think Michael Jackson stayed at your home?
A. Oh, perhaps a week or two.
Let me explain this Monaco thing – Jordan claimed in his declaration of December 28, 1993 that it was in Monaco that ‘things got out of hand’ – which was at the beginning of May (May 9, 1993). Even our Diane Dimond as a big expert on Michael Jackson also said that “it” started in Monaco.
However according to June those ‘30 days’ were NOT AFTER Monaco. They were BEFORE it. Which means that even according to Jordan’s or Diane Dimond the period before Monaco was nothing special in the ‘relationship’ between Michael and Jordan.
A simple deduction of 30 days from the beginning of May takes us to the beginning of April which is approximately the moment named by June Chandler and Jordan as the time when Michael invited them to Las Vegas and where Jordan allegedly stayed in Michael’s room for the first time.
We have just heard from June Chandler that Michael spent full 30 days in June’s home after Las Vegas (late March) and before Monaco (May 9) with consecutive stays being no more than “a week or two at a time”. This pressing schedule didn’t prevent them from staying (at least overnight) at Neverland two or three times too and go to Disneyland in Florida on two occasions staying there for two or three days each time. Please note that between Florida and Monaco some two or three weeks elapsed according to June’s testimony within which period June Chandler saw Michael only “at times”.
Well, didn’t I tell you that it would be difficult to understand it?
I don’t understand it either and would be really grateful if someone could explain to me how it is possible to squeeze those 30 days in question as well as numerous other events (with all those breaks in between them) into the maximum of 40 days which passed between Las Vegas (the end of March) and Monaco (the beginning of May) – especially if you consider that besides the Chandlers Michael had other matters to attend to?
For example, Michael worked on “Whatsupwithu” video with Eddy Murphy at the time which was aired on April 11, and attended some South Central educational institutions within the Heal Los Angeles program on April 26 and went with Lisa-Maria Presley to an event organized by Jimmy Carter in Atlanta within the Heal the world project on May 5.
If you don’t believe me please check up June Chandler’s testimony for the timeline yourselves:
Q. Were there other visits to Neverland Valley Ranch after you came back from Las Vegas?
A. Yes, there were.
…Q. Do you remember on how many such occasions?
A. I would say two or three times.
Q. Now, were there occasions after you got back from Las Vegas — let me — where Mr. Jackson actually was invited to stay at your residence where you lived at this point in time?
Q. Now, what city was it that you lived in at this time?
A. Santa Monica.
Q. We’re talking about 1993, in the spring, right?
Q. And during this time, did Mr. Jackson ever spend the night at your residence?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. And do you recall on how many occasions Mr.Jackson spent the night at your residence?
A. I would say more than 30 times.
Q. And were some of those occasions on consecutive days or nights?
Q. And how long consecutively do you think that that occurred?
A. Oh. It could be a week or two at a time.
Q. And when you went to Disney World with Mr. Jackson, who else went with you?
A. Jordan and Lily.
Q. Do you recall where you stayed?
A. I recall The Grand Floridian was one hotel. Q. And during the time that — do you remember how many days — did you go there on more than one occasion?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. How many occasions?
Q. Do you — I think you answered this, but just in case, how many days did you think you were in Florida?
A. Oh, I don’t really remember, but it’s probably more than two nights. Two, three nights.
Q. And after you came back from Florida, do you recall where you went?
A. After that, I think the next trip was to Monaco.
Q. In between the time that you went to Florida and to Monaco, do you recall where you were — where you were personally staying?
A. No. I guess home.
Q. Do you remember how much time elapsed between the two trips?
A. Not really, no.
Q. Was it more than a month, more than a week? Obviously it was more than a day or so.
A. Yes. It was a couple — it could be three weeks.
Q. And during that time when you got back from Florida till the time that you left for Monaco, were you with Mr. Jackson?
A. At times.
7) The above remarkably inconsistent piece is also remarkable for June Chandler’s invitation to Michael to stay in their house right after the visit to Las Vegas.
“Mr. Jackson actually was invited to stay at your residence”.
What struck me about this statement was its passive form which was confirmed by June Chandler. But how can you be invited into anyone’s home if the master of the house does not invite you there? Wasn’t it no other but June Chandler who invited Michael to her home immediately after Las Vegas – which was exactly after that dubious Exorcist/du Soleil episode which supposedly worried her and over which she cried?
Recently I have found another proof that all talk about Michael Jackson being the initiator of spending time with Jordan Chandler was a complete fabrication. Surprisingly, but the discovery was made in the place least suitable for it – in one of the articles written by Maureen Orth:
” Pellicano isn’t bothered by admitting that Jackson slept with Jamie at Jamie’s house at least 30 days in a row, either. “They invited Michael to stay there. Michael didn’t crash their house. He didn’t say, ‘I want to stay here.’ They wanted him to stay there.”
According to Pellicano, there was no cause for alarm in Jackson’s having a friend like Jamie. “If Michael has no sexual preference one way or another, male or female, to my knowledge, and the parents of the children are allowing this, you have to look at it in the context—especially at the ranch. They go out and they play and they go on the rides and they have water fights and do all this stuff. And then they kind of like crash. Now, Michael is always fully dressed.” Even at Jamie’s house? “When [Jamie] went to bed, he had pajamas on, and sweats, and Michael had sweats and pajamas on. Michael goes to bed with his hat on. I’m serious.”
As regards the hat I can easily believe Pellicano’s words – Michael was associating with Jordan Chandler exactly after the first leg of the Dangerous tour about which we know (from Karen Faye) that Michael went there with his scalp not yet healed after the balloon stretching of his skin.
So going to bed in a hat was a very natural thing to do, considering that Michael still had a scar and a half-healed burned spot there. No need to laugh, I am being serious, guys.
8) Okay, and the last interesting discrepancy – or rather a notable omission – is connected with the description Jordan Chandler made of Michael’s genitalia.
The initial description was widely reported in the press and was originally found in Jordan’s first interview with Deborah Linden, the sheriff’s assistant – however it was completely missing from the statement he made to Larry Feldman several months later.
Have you ever asked yourself a question why that light splotch “which was the color of his face” and the “circumcised penis” described by Jordan in September 1993, disappeared from his story by the end of December 1993 when Jordan’s gave his account of the alleged molestation again?
What happened in between those two statements which contributed to the notable omission of so crucial an evidence?
Yes, yes, you are right – it was Michael Jackson’s strip search which didn’t support Jordan’s initial story and which made the media, the prosecution, Jordan Chandler and his lawyer Larry Feldman jointly forget by December 1993 the words Jordan said in September the same year.
It was only twelve years later (in 2005) that the description would reemerge in Tom Sneddon’s declaration, but this time it would come in a totally amended version – now he would not talk of “the light splotch the color of his face”, but would cite some indefinite dark spot found at the “relatively same location”, never mentioning the circumcision issue at all.
This is what Tom Sneddon considered a “match”.
Merry Christmas to all of you, guys!
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Click here to see June Chandler’s testimony at the 2005 trial: