“True Fan or Not, Who Gets to Decide?” Love and fruits of their deeds will decide
The admin of the Michael Jackson Tribute Portrait forum wrote an amazing analysis of problems in the MJ fan community: http://www.thejamcafe-mjtpforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4
Since I fully agree that Michael’s fans, advocates and supporters should stop fighting each other over virtually non-existent issues, I’m reposting her message here in solidarity with what she is saying. However I need to add one point which on the surface of it might look like a contradiction to her post ( it is not).
The fact is that not all Michael’s fans are actually fans – there are lots of haters among them working against the community. They are great professionals in sowing the wind, hatred and division among Michael’s supporters and are not easy to reveal.
What is the way to recognize them? The application of these two principles might help:
- “You shall know them by their fruits”
and
- “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love , I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love , I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love , I gain nothing.”
Let us try and apply these simple principles – to ourselves in the first place , and hopefully we will manage to come together over Michael.
Here is the message to Michael Jackson’s fan community from TheJamCafe-MJTPForum.com.
“True” Fan or Not, Who Gets to Decide?
Anyone who knows me should be aware of my stance on bullying in the fan community. I have written about it, commented on it and tweeted it. Of course nothing has changed; no amount of words seems to sink in or hit a nerve with those who engage in these tactics. It continues, and so does my abhorrence of it.
In the early days following Michael’s death, I began to notice that many people were taking it upon themselves to decide who was a “real” fan and who wasn’t based on longevity and age. New, young fans joining the MJTP site were being shot down in flames for even daring to call themselves a fan. How could they possible know or understand who Michael was? They were too young, they hadn’t be there since day one or through Michael’s allegations and trial, how could they appreciate his music or understand his genius, how could they be a “real” fan? Instead of welcoming arms, these new fans were met with derision and shameful condemnation and many disappeared from view. Now we see the rising of another trend, the “true” fan syndrome.
In a recent podcast we did with Joe Vogel and Frank Cascio, Joe made a comment that gave me a great deal of pause for thought. He said that Michael Jackson fans, in many ways, were very tribalistic. I have been pondering this for several days now, and in light of recent tweets, blog posts and messages on Facebook I have read, I have come to accept that he is right in what he says.
Now, before anyone takes the meaning of tribalistic out of context, let me give you the definition of the word straight from the dictionary: tribalistic: noun. tribal organization, culture, loyalty, etc. a strong sense of identifying with and being loyal to one’s tribe, group, etc. See? It is clearly not meant as an insult, but it is clear in its definition of the fan community at present.
There has been a slow but obvious shift from the early days when Michael passed, when fans united all over the world to mourn together his passing. There were signs that a global community would arise from the tragedy and unite to carry out and continue Michael’s hope for a better world, from the many interactions and messages of love and support between fan groups and individuals. However, these sentiments have been replaced or rather displaced, as the community divides and forms individual tribes with their own particular focus. And these tribes often work against each other, as opposed to working together.
A friend, who shall remain unnamed, hit the nail on the head when she gave titles to the main tribes/groups that have the loudest voice in the community: The Reality, The Lovey-Dovey, The Conflict At All Costs, and The Negativity Always. Whether you like it or not, whether you’re offended or not, all of us fall into one of these categories in some capacity. But really, this shouldn’t be a bad thing if all tribes were willing to come to an agreement and work for a common purpose, but as it stands now, the only hope of that happening is if the United Nations steps in and forces a peace agreement between the warring parties. Ridiculousness at its best, shameful at its worst.
How can positive change and expansion occur in this situation? Better yet, does anyone really give a damn about change and expansion? While we fight with each other over Immortal, the Estate, Frank Cascio’s book, the Michael album, while we accuse people of not being loyal to Michael because they don’t boycott all of the above and anything that looks as if it’s tied to AEG, Branca and Sony, while we accuse people of not being “true” fans because they don’t share our belief’s, while we question people’s allegiance and intelligence, while we stomp on and beat people down because they dare to say they support something we don’t, demean them, berate them, insult them, undervalue them, vilify them, and put the fear of God into them for offering their opinions, we are doing the same thing to Michael’s legacy, and therefore to the man himself. Why? Because it’s our legacy too; it’s in our hands bequeathed to us and to his family by him. We are it, and all I can say at the moment is heaven help it, because the hands it’s laying in are shaky at the best.
Of course, length of time can often give one a misplaced feeling of ownership and entitlement, but here is a reality check. No one, and I mean no one, has exclusive rights or ownership of Michael Jackson. Just because you have been a fan for all your life or most of it, just because your website is the largest or most popular or the longest running, just because you have a multitude of followers, a loud voice in the community or believe in what you believe in, doesn’t make you any more important than the fan standing next to you with a quiet voice, a scattering of followers and their own opinions and beliefs. No one here has the right to judge or condemn another, and certainly no one has the right to decide who is a “real” or “true” fan. For those who have appointed themselves these roles, you are danger of being labeled also.
It’s a very heavy and vitally important responsibility that has been placed upon us; yet, it is in danger of not reaching its fullest potential. What a tragedy that would be. We have the collective power, if we use it and use it wisely, to bring about the change that is so desperately needed and that Michael himself worked toward and believed in, but instead, we waste that power by pouring our energy into the antithesis of what his vision was.
We all may have a different area of focus in the community, but they are all important to the whole, and at the very center of everything we do, should be Michael’s vision to make the world a better place. It is really the only one, true thing we can be sure of. He spoke of it often, and the message is there in his music, undeniable and strong. Anything else we presume to think, what he may have thought or wanted or how he felt are merely that, presumptions. The only person, who knew Michael inside and out, was Michael himself.
The biggest stumbling block to change is lack of hope; the biggest stumbling block in securing hope is apathy, and the greatest enemy of apathy is vision. We have the vision, Michael’s vision, now just what are we going to do with it?
COME TOGETHER
Right now
Over me
Here come ol’ flat top
He come groovin’ up slowly
He’s got Joo Joo eyeball
He one holy roller
He got hair down to his knees
Got to be a joker he just do what he please
He wear no shoe shine
He’s got toe jam football
He’s got monkey finger
He shoot Coca-Cola
He say “I know you, you know me”
One thing I can tell you is you got to be free
Come together
Right now
Over me
He bag production
He’s got walrus gum-boot
He’s got Ono sideboard
He one spinal cracker
He got feet down through his knees
Hold you in his armchair
You can feel his disease
Come together
Right now
Over me
Come together babe
Come together babe
Come together
Come together
He roller coaster
He’s got early warning
He’s got muddy water
He one Mojo filter
He say “One and one and one is three”
Got to be good looking ’cause he’s so hard to see
Come together
Right now
Over me
UPDATE by Cowebeth, Feb. 6, 2012:
Harmony doesn’t necessarily come naturally. Harmony is all too often the reordering of chaos. The discord in the fan community craves simmering from anger so we can more easily move forward. And as Michael said, “There’s nothing that can’t be done if we raise our voice as one”.
Furthermore, as a part of the whole, united fanhood serves as respect for The One; The Circle of Life, in order to become harmonious.
We share in a common bond that is love and can be a power of example as Michael has been.
Like Michael said in TII, “Stand up, stand up”.
Time is of the essence so, let’s stand up for him.
To stand up for Michael is to take a stand for all in the name of love.
That is; with focus on purpose rather than ourselves.
UPDATE by sanemjfan, February 10th, 2012:
Here is a photo of Frank Cascio promoting this post on his Facebook page!
Vindicating Michael 
VMJ, what a beautiful post, so sad that this split among fans is happening and we all forget what Michael was all about: LOVE. Whatever our opinion might be, and of course in such a large community there will be a difference of opinion at some point, it’s just normal, let’s never forget that is not the issue here. We are all entitled to our opinion, as long as it is based on facts and I want to thank this site once again for searching for these facts, without which we’d be no better than the haters.
I’ll never forget the note of someone left right after Michael’s death: ‘Angels are not supposed to live on Earth. Thank you for trying’. Let’s all celebrate the life and legacy of an angel that we were so blessed to share time on earth with. He was a guiding light, shining even from the dirt others covered him with. I might be getting too poetic here, but I mean every word of it, despite all the inhumanity that surrounded him, he managed to stay pure. How?… I cannot imagine, unless he was truly touched by the divine.
I always find wisdom and help in Michael’s words, whether from his books, poems, songs… ‘There’s no mountain high I cannot climb/ I’m humbled in your grace’. This kind of lyrics keep me going, keep me smiling, despite everything. If he could do it, so can we. Let’s never give up hope.
It’s all for L.O.V.E.
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I added a photo at the end of the post! Frank Cascio posted this article on his Facebook page!
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@VMJ
And I really don’t know how he could live with all those accusations of ped-lia. Even when you read about it it makes you sick and it feels like you are staring in the face of Evil itself.
Michael stared into the face of evil at it’s worst. Falsely accused of something so horrendous that even bad criminals in prison will kill you for. I honestly can’t figure how he got through two of these public accusations without having a total breakdown, except for God. I know there were more than two, but the two got the publicity.
When I found out my husband of 21 years had molested our daughter, she was 15, I also stared at evil and I felt dirty and guilty even tho I never suspected anything was going on. When you’re that close to a real situation the slime somehow gets on you and you feel it.
You can feel ugly and guilty, maybe just because you don’t know what people are really thinking about you. Mine was small scale, family and friends, but Michael’s was world wide. No comparison to my situation. That was my darkest hour which still haunts me 25 years later. You never get over something like that. Michael had to go through that in front of the whole world and somehow managed to stay sweet, loving and kind. That’s “Amazing Grace “. He has my respect, because I know he was innocently facing a much bigger court than I did. I can’t even imagine what he must have gone through.
All the accusations and the media bias, he somehow stayed sweet, but I know there was a lot of pain inside that he lived with right up to the day he died. Wow, i hope I didn’t sound too depressing here. Life is still sweet and we are all over comers.
Love you guys
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Raven of “AllForLoveBlog” has also added her voice and considerable writing talents to this subject.
“A House Divided Cannot Stand”
http://www.allforloveblog.com/?p=5835
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@ everyone
I’ve stated my opinion. I’ll stand for Michael and for all the admins on this site and many others who stand for truth, no matter what or who the subject. I respect honesty, but despise mind games. VMJ, you don’t need my support, but you’re welcome. Anyone who spends any time on this site know you’re the good guys.
Pointless arguments with no basis and going nowhere, I avoid and I won’t take up valuable space with it. It’s only a distraction and a trap which I’ve seen before and it’s totally obvious, so back on track.
This article is great, good job as always. I’ve been working so much overtime lately, I’ve fallen behind here, so I have some catching up to do. I love reading some of the testimonies, they’re always good for a laugh. If it wasn’t for the devastation that it caused in Michael’s life there could have been a great comedy movie made on this.
Let’s all keep up the good work. Life is good, and we all need to stay positive and keep focused.
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“Have people here on VMJ treated others inhumanely because they didn’t see things as they do? Already I have been put in the category of a possible hater in disguise with a mission. I am being asked to prove something I am not, does this sound familiar?”
Nicola, please do not portray yourself as a “victim” here. No one is putting you in any categories though each of us can form his own opinion about why you are doing this. All I asked you to prove is when and whom I treated “inhumanely” for “not seeing things as I do”.
“Possibly, could a fan have anything to say about VMJ that is not wonderful glowing praise?”
It is quite possible and this is what you are doing.
“In conclusion, the individual choice is to look at yourself or continue to point fingers.”
“point fingers?” All I am trying to do is finding the truth about Michael Jackson and refuting lies about him. Whenever I see a lie I give my arguments against it without name-calling. When it concerns well-known haters like Diane Dimond I naturally mention her, but when the lie (the way I see it) comes from someone in the fan community I refute THE LIE and don’t fight anyone in person. The reason I never mention the name is because there is no way for me to know whether this person is a devil in disguise or a misinformed angel. That is why I prefer to fight LIES, and not people. And I also believe that people do change with time.
P.S. Linda and Susanne, my huge thanks to you for your support. I don’t know what I would do without it. After all some new people who just joined us don’t know if the accusations of me treating people “inhumanely” are true or not, so only my readers can say what it is really like. Thank you very much again!
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An excellent post Helena.
An ill wind is blowing through the MJ community. Comments like yours and those from TheJam Cafe-MJTP Forum will help to reminds us why we say we are here. A timely reminder of who we lost, what brought us together, what we’ve gained and what we are in danger of losing.
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@ Susanne “I am reading this blog regularly since almost 2 years, and I have never seen any of the admins attacking anybody just for a different opinion.”
@ Linda I take it you are talking about examples about admins here attacking people with different opinions?
Where do you see the word attack here: Have people here on VMJ treated others inhumanely because they didn’t see things as they do? Yes, I’ve seen it happen here, people comment and are treated like they are the devil and haters only because it’s not a popular VMJ opinion and that is no different than the haters this place rallies against. Not every person is a hater!
If you wanna make the world a different place take a look in the mirror and make that change.
Why should I fight with you or anyone about this? If you were to say I have done something wrong I would listen and then I ask myself is this true? I would try to see my behavior through your eyes, treating someone inhumanely is not killing them, it is treating a person less than you would like your own self treated. Already I have been put in the category of a possible hater in disguise with a mission. I am being asked to prove something I am not, does this sound familiar? For many fans there are always two categories, hater or fan and that is the point. Possibly, could a fan have anything to say about VMJ that is not wonderful glowing praise? Again, no one is perfect. VMJ does wonderful work vindicating Michael but is there room for individual habits to should change for the message that is intended to ring loud and clear? Yes, there is. In conclusion, the individual choice is to look at yourself or continue to point fingers.
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I am reading this blog regularly since almost 2 years, and I have never seen any of the admins attacking anybody just for a different opinion. The only ones who have been rebuked where those who came here to attack themselves the blog and whose only intention obviously was to fight. And that’s why I’m still here – because of the integrity, the truthfulness and the fairness of the bloggers. Helena, I will always defend you and the others, because I see the difference to those who really attack others and who are not interested in facts and in a decent dealing with one another.
And this is also very true, Helena:
“We need the real picture of Michael as the truth is the ONLY premise from which any investigation of what happened to him can start. We don’t need any illusions or whitewashing. There is nothing for us to fear about – Michael was great the way he was. Moreover, I think that for the circumstances he found himself in he was a complete ANGEL.”
I agree wholeheartedly!
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@ nicola
Since this is your opinion I can give you several examples and you will say I am wrong. It has happened and yes, people have pointed it out but if people refuse to look at themselves critically and always want to believe that they are right and stand for the truth, then no one will convince them to do any different.
Well, you said you could give several examples, but you gave none. I take it you are talking about examples about admins here attacking people with different opinions? Now, whether you’re a hater trying to incite a fight, or a fan trying to make a point, I can’t say yet, but if you give me some actual facts, no I won’t say you are wrong. You’re statement “and you will say I am wrong ” is judging me, because you don’t know me, so you don’t know I will say you are wrong.
I’m not trying to fight with you and neither are the admins on this site, just trying to figure where you’re coming from and whats in you heart. I won’t argue for fun, because it’s a no win situation for everybody and that’s not fun.
I always respect others opinions and won’t belittle them for theirs and hopefully they won’t belittle me for mine. I’m always willing to talk, and hear what you have to say as long as you give factual evidence of what you are saying.
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“if you have a person who is convinced that every time a person disagrees then it is a sheep in wolves clothing with the purpose to divide and conquer than that is not standing together.”
Nicola, now you’ve made it clear that you are talking about me. Generally I never answer to any personal accusations like the above (of which I was fortunate to have very few), leaving the readers to decide who is who.
But today you’ve made me just curious – which of my readers did I accuse of being a sheep in wolves’ clothing with a purpose to divide and conquer”? The only time I mentioned the wolves recently was about such people in general, but not about anyone specifically. Did you have a different impression? Could you provide any examples what you are talking about, please?
I am asking not because I want to test you – I really want to know where I stepped over the edge as you say I did.
And could you answer one more question please – do you think I have a right to an opinion of my own? And also the right to defend my views?
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“I think that we should not waste energy on the wrong things, all those people who destroyed Michael. This causes negative emotions. Michael evokes positive emotions. Why read articles Orth, once again, why bother watching Nancy Grace. It poisons the minds.”
Maria, I understand what you are talking about. It does poison our minds in a terrible way. But we are in a very unfortunate position because in order to clean Michael’s name off all the dirt we first have to plunge into this dirt and see it from its inside. Please believe me that it is a very hard experience which I do not wish to any of my readers. It even requires a sort of cleansing oneself after it. I am trying very hard to shield my readers from it, though sometimes it is impossible or very difficult to do.
When you see all this dirt in its enormity like we (and you) do, it gives a totally new understanding of what Michael had to go through. Frankly, I don’t really know how he could cope with all this dirt thrown at him for decades and on a worldwide scale too. I don’t know how he managed to remain pure after all that. I don’t understand how he managed to retain his goodwill, kindness and love for people after everything he had to go through. It is really much-much more than any human being is capable of standing.
And I really don’t know how he could live with all those accusations of ped-lia. Even when you read about it it makes you sick and it feels like you are staring in the face of Evil itself. At first I myself could not handle this subject at all. Now I can, but unfortunately it made me turn into a kind of a stone. Probably it is a normal defense human reaction but I am totally unhappy with it and am a little frightened to experience it.
But just imagine, we are touching upon this dirt only on the surface of it – while Michael was living in this hell for years and had no escape from it! The more I look at what he had to endure the more convinced I am that only a true man of God would be capable of survival in this dirt. And he didn’t get contaminated by it as none of it stuck to him. And though it did bring about his death he still remained pure and untouched by its evil…
He was a saint.
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@Linda
Could you have misunderstood something you read here by an admin? Because I’ve never seen anyone here attack someone for having a different opinion. I HAVE seen some pretty ugly post here and the admins have all responded kindly with the simple facts. I’ve never seen them ignore anyone, or retaliate with hate.
Since this is your opinion I can give you several examples and you will say I am wrong. It has happened and yes, people have pointed it out but if people refuse to look at themselves critically and always want to believe that they are right and stand for the truth, then no one will convince them to do any different. No one is perfect and no I am not talking about Dave. As Michael says, it is not black and white and there are not just two groups, haters and fans. You will never have a group of fans who think exactly the same on every issue.
Everybody has an opinion, and that’s ok, but we really shouldn’t be fighting each other, or trying to force our opinion on others, or being offended because they don’t feel the same as us. We are all doing what we think is right. All any of us can do is give out the facts and then let people do what they think is right and hopefully, we as fans, will do what we need to do, but always do it with love and kindness.
Then why are you not prepared to accept my opinion as my point of view? It is a great message to stay stand together but if you have a person who is convinced that every time a person disagrees then it is a sheep in wolves clothing with the purpose to divide and conquer than that is not standing together.
Hoping all the fans will come together again and stop quarreling over the little things.
I do not think it is a little thing to show respect for others even if they might have a different view point when they are standing on the same side that you are. The inner fighting is always people wanting to be the one who is right and I just wanted to point to this but it is an individual choice to self reflect or ignore.
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Media need to be changed. When people open their hearts and see Michael,they will fight for fair media. Settlement media is necessary, it requires justice. Settlement is an honest debate about the role of the media and an apology.
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I think that we should not waste energy on the wrong things, all those people who destroyed Michael. This causes negative emotions. Michael evokes positive emotions. Why read articles Orth, once again, why bother watching Nancy Grace. It poisons the minds. When I feel angry with these people, I think it’s sick. Humility. !. It’s hard, but so was Michael. Michael said Man in the mirror. By showing how Michael was a man opens the hearts of many skeptics. When you get to know Michael, you will see the truth. Just see his innocence. Only in this way.
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“The goal of all MJ fans should be to educate the public with the facts only, without malice and stand together. If we’re true fans we need to come together and not waste time and energy arguing about little things that have no significance.”
THE WORDS OF WISDOM AND TRUTH!
“We have entire websites fighting Michael’s post humus album. why? What’s the point? Others fighting against, or boycotting Sony. Other fans arguing against the estate lawyers or the Casios. All any of us can do is give out the facts and then let people do what they think is right and hopefully, we as fans, will do what we need to do, but always do it with love and kindness.”
I think that the question “What’s the point of all those hatred blogs?” is the crucial one. Indeed what is the point? What good does it do to Michael Jackson if someone consistently fights Frank Cascio or Charles Thomson, for example? Hateful posts about Charles Thomson did look to me like his intimidation campaign – meant to show what can happen to a journalist if he takes Michael’s side. Charles was trashed so heavily that now he probably doesn’t want to have anything to do with MJ fans at all (as he hasn’t posted much on MJ lately). If silencing him or making him disinterested was the goal of those who started a campaign against him let us admit that they were successful.
The problem is that the fan community has both haters in sheep’s clothing and those who don’t realize what harm they are doing to Michael by their clumsy efforts. Each of us should ask ourselves a question – is what I am saying now in Michael’s interests or will it do him more harm than good?
Sometimes fans attack those who simply want to be honest with their audience. Frank Cascio is one of them. Of course we would have preferred it if he hadn’t spoken about propofol in Michael’s life, but he did, and to me his honesty over this point showed that he was absolutely credible on all other issues, which are crucial for us – like the “molestation” nonsense of which Frank never saw a sign of during his 25 years with MJ. So there is substantial good even in Frank’s honesty over propofol – if he hadn’t disclosed the truth that doctors gave it for Michael’s insomnia before, his book would have been less credible and would have looked like whitewashing Michael.
But we don’t need any whitewashing. We need to know the truth about MJ and are not speaking of him as a flawless human being. By the way sleeplessness is not a flaw – it is a heavy malady which is extremely difficult to treat, especially in Michael’s case. And if doctors suggested propofol to Michael (he couldn’t have known about it on his own), then this is the reality we have to deal with and accept.
We need the real picture of Michael as the truth is the ONLY premise from which any investigation of what happened to him can start. We don’t need any illusions or whitewashing. There is nothing for us to fear about – Michael was great the way he was. Moreover, I think that for the circumstances he found himself in he was a complete ANGEL.
By that I mean that the value of a person stands out best when compared with the challenges the person faces – it is easy to be flawless when you have no real challenges in life. However if you worked for half the night at strip clubs and saw the dirty side of life since the tender age of 5, and were haunted by maladies like lupus, vitiligo, a head burn, several accidents and extreme physical and psychological pain from all that harassment, very few people would be able to stand up to that and remain what Michael was like at the end of his life – a warm, generous, compassionate and pure human being with a heart of gold.
“Hoping all the fans will come together again and stop quarreling over the little things. We don’t want to be a house divided that will surely fall. We need to come together. UNITED WE STAND!!! Divided we all fall.”
Great words of wisdom again.
“I’ve never seen anyone here attack someone for having a different opinion.”
Linda, thank you for your support!
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@Nicola
Have people here on VMJ treated others inhumanely because they didn’t see things as they do? Yes, I’ve seen it happen here, people comment and are treated like they are the devil and haters only because it’s not a popular VMJ opinion and that is no different than the haters this place rallies against. Not every person is a hater!
(and just so you know, this is not a “hater” trying to point fingers and make anyone on VMJ feel bad. It is an honest observation – I’ve seen admins here do that to commentators who are just expressing their opinions.)
Could you have misunderstood something you read here by an admin? Because I’ve never seen anyone here attack someone for having a different opinion. I HAVE seen some pretty ugly post here and the admins have all responded kindly with the simple facts. I’ve never seen them ignore anyone, or retaliate with hate.
This site has been under attack because they speak the truth, and they always treat people with respect, but there comes a time, when if that same person keeps coming back with the same hateful comments that you have to cut them off or get blunt with your comments. VMJ tries to educate with facts, giving links to prove those facts.
If people don’t want to take the time to research, but continue spewing their hate they need to give some facts also, but rarely do. I’m not trying to make you feel bad either, just not sure if you’ve read this site correctly. What I DO see here is love, compassion and maturity, things haters don’t seem to have, so VMJ’s opinion IS different than haters. You can’t put them in the same class.
The goal of all MJ fans should be to educate the public with the facts only, without malice and stand together. If we’re true fans we need to come together and not waste time and energy arguing about little things that have no significance.
We have entire websites fighting Michael’s post humus album. why? What’s the point? Others fighting against, or boycotting Sony. Other fans arguing against the estate lawyers or the Casios. Everybody has an opinion, and that’s ok, but we really shouldn’t be fighting each other, or trying to force our opinion on others, or being offended because they don’t feel the same as us. We are all doing what we think is right. All any of us can do is give out the facts and then let people do what they think is right and hopefully, we as fans, will do what we need to do, but always do it with love and kindness.
Hoping all the fans will come together again and stop quarreling over the little things. We don’t want to be a house divided that will surely fall. We need to come together. UNITED WE STAND!!! Divided we all fall.
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@ Vindicatemj
“If these people are “intellectuals” the only other alternative left to us is that they are fooling people intentionally.”
These people aren’t interested in doing an intelligent analysis and giving thoughtful opinions. They “dumb down” the news in order to appeal (dare I say it) to the average Joe.
“If it is a person who wants us to join one of those hatred campaigns against the Cascios, Arnold Klein, Aaron Carter, Charles Thomson, or the posthumous Michael’s album, I usually try to stop these things because not everyone and everything is perfect, and people do make mistakes (we too)”.
Thanks so much for saying this, I completely agree. Let’s focus our energies on the real villains.
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@Nicola
Can you please give us specific examples of when the admins of this blog have bullied anyone for not agreeing with us? Primarily me??!!! Thanks!
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“Have people here on VMJ treated others inhumanely because they didn’t see things as they do? I’ve seen admins here do that to commentators who are just expressing their opinions”
Nicola, it depends on the opinion. If it is a hater who trashes Michael non-stop and does not listen to any arguments, at some point we do become ruthless to him.
If it is a person who wants us to join one of those hatred campaigns against the Cascios, Arnold Klein, Aaron Carter, Charles Thomson, or the posthumous Michael’s album, I usually try to stop these things because not everyone and everything is perfect, and people do make mistakes (we too).
Campaigning against someone is generally not our cup of tea – we seek truth about MJ and refute lies about him. And it is only when someone is really guilty towards Michael (like Murray and AEG in my opinion) is when I allow myself to say a couple of rough words against these people. And I believe that trashing Michael’s album was also a very harmful and foolish thing to do.
I also remember that I got very angry when one reader told me that she couldn’t believe that I was giving the benefit of doubt even to Arnold Klein adding something like “everyone knows who he is”. Everyone does while I don’t! And am not ready to pass the final verdict on him without double checking first! And when I did double check I didn’t find him guilty enough for the capital punishment (figuratively speaking) everyone is asking for him. He didn’t say even half of what is being attributed to him and was slandered in a manner Michael Jackson was and if he did make some mistakes he is old and ill… I even believe that he was scammed in the same manner Aaron Carter was.
And Aaron Carter was scammed because we never saw the promised full video of him saying “terrible things” about Michael. All we had was a cut-and-paste job made by our old friend Daphne Barak where Aaron was speaking not about Michael.
People seem to be overlooking one point. Haters try to eliminate Michael’s supporters one after another and regularly arrange witch-hunts against them by sending Michael’s fans in wrong directions. When I see people falling for the tricks of these agents provocateurs I try to do everything in my power to change the readers’ point of view. The change rarely happens and I feel extremely frustrated in such cases, but I don’t remember treating anyone “inhumanly” over it. As far as I know all those who disagreed with me are still kicking and alive here.
On the other hand do I have a right to an opinion of my own? I think I am and I am absolutely not obliged to agree with everything I am being told. If I have hurt someone’s feelings and was unjust in being so, please tell me. Hopefully it is not too late to apologize to these people.
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“We use his death, as we used his life, as a mirror. There is no room for Michael. It is still, tragically, all about us. Perhaps that is Michael Jackson’s final song, his parting gift. We must have a bigger heart, a bigger vision. It’s not all about us.”
This says it all. Shouldn’t all of us start thinking about how we’ve individually made this all about us? I dont’ think we should be puffing our chests and saying I’m so glad I’m not like this or that. Maybe we should look at how we are like that! Have people here on VMJ treated others inhumanely because they didn’t see things as they do? Yes, I’ve seen it happen here, people comment and are treated like they are the devil and haters only because it’s not a popular VMJ opinion and that is no different than the haters this place rallies against. Not every person is a hater!
(and just so you know, this is not a “hater” trying to point fingers and make anyone on VMJ feel bad. It is an honest observation – I’ve seen admins here do that to commentators who are just expressing their opinions.)
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Michael’s defense should be based on showing the person of Michael, and not showing Orth, Dimond, Bashir, prosecutor Sneddon and others. Reading these evil things causes sorrow, is not defending Michael. This portrayal of evil. The light is coming when there’s Michael. Focus on his person. This should be the task of fans. When I read the bad things I feel anger and sometimes hatred. This is wrong. When I look at Michael feels calm, but also shame. He was good as an angel and so humble. Michael forces us to look in the mirror. Then a man sometimes has to bow my head in shame. He is an authority.
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“He has only been a nick in jail and wants out, he forgets he is there for manslaugther and not for double parking.”
Very well said!
“like you I find it incredible that people still argue about the outcome of Murray´s trial”
Kaarin, I don’t know whether fans argue about it or not, but some personalities on TV and videos do amaze me by their ignorant comment. It has become common for many to say: “if it weren’t Murray it would have been someone else”.
This is a totally outrageous statement. It is incredible that people who look intelligent at first sight should say a foolish, ignorant and nasty thing like that. However I’ve heard it from a CNN reporter and recently from a Brazilian writer Arnaldo Jabor who seems to be quite an authority in his country.
If these people are “intellectuals” the only other alternative left to us is that they are fooling people intentionally.
They KNOW that no one else but Murray could have been that negligent, than inattentive to his patient, that deceitful and that heartless in what he was doing.
They KNOW that propofol is being used on a routine basis in hospitals for millions of patients and nothing bad happens to them.
Therefore they KNOW that it wasn’t propofol that killed Michael Jackson and that it was the individual called Conrad Murray who did it.
Saying that ANY doctor would have done the same in his place means that they are degrading all American doctors to the level of Conrad Murray. By making statements like that they do a great disservice to their country – only they do not realize it.
In fact NO OTHER DOCTOR would have ever done anything like it even if he had been administering propofol at home. Of course it is not common practice to use it there but sometimes anesthesiologists have to administer propofol at home if the patient cannot be moved to a hospital. And the witness for the Murray’s defense – Dr. White – did talk about it. It is only that the rules of its home usage should be more stringent than in a hospital as all other doctors said at the trial.
Propofol is like a knife. In the hands of a good doctor it is harmless, but in the hands of a criminal it is a weapon of murder.
Is the knife responsible for what people do with it?
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Cawobeth, you’ve said it marvellously. I’ve added your words to the post now as I was particularly impressed by the three principles you’ve mentioned.
Indeed, harmony does not come natural to human beings at all. Each human being is said to be a battlefield between good and evil and it is absolutely within our power to shift the borderline between the two inside ourselves. All we need to do is make a conscious effort for a change. A little more understanding for each other, a little more patience and goodwill, a little less rage, anger and selfishness – and miracles will start happening then and there.
To be an example for others – as Michael has been – is another of my dreams. I think it is impossible to call oneself a supporter of Michael Jackson and behave in a way his detractors did seething with venom and hatred towards others or, God forbid, using dirty methods similar to theirs. This is not only incompatible with Michael’s spirit but is also extremely harmful to ourselves. Each should fight with his own weapon only.
And “focusing on purpose rather than ourselves” is the culmination of it all. I understand it as putting Michael’s interests first and seeking no personal aggrandizement for ourselves. After all it is only because of him that we are here at all.
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oops… “which precEDED brif periods of healing”.
On this note I hope people realize that Michael did also prevail with strength, to a great degree, in spite of AND due to the pain he endured. This is evident by the fact that he did reface his homeland, that had treated him so cruelly, and quite evident by the demeanor of his 3 beautiful children.
Hence, if Michael could endure what he did, can we at least have what it takes to give him the respect he lacked ?
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VMJ,like you I find it incredible that people still argue about the outcome of Murray´s trial.Either they did not see it or are deaf,blind or analfabetic.It was filmed, is it possible to cut it into a film?
There were witnesses of the highest caliber and as a whole it was riveting.-Thank you for the music video above, a great one as usual and as usual afterwards that bitterssweet feeling.-Now murray wants out. I have to mention a comment I read on another blog, “He has only been a nick in jail and wants out, he forgets he is there for manslaugther and not for double parking.”
I am only too aware of that division among people when it comes to Michael.I lost a friend over that. Her only comment was:Oh,you think, feel that just because you don´t like someone you can´t kill them.
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I couldn’t help think of this post when I read an article in the Huff. Post just now.
The Untouchable Michael Jackson by Rebeca Walker
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rebecca-walker/the-untouchable-michael-j_b_229957.html
This is what struck me most – – –
” It was always all about us. Who came with that level of passion and commitment on Michael’s behalf? Who offered their lives to him the way he offered his to us? . . . But even in the question, we glimpse the conundrum. We use his death, as we used his life, as a mirror. There is no room for Michael. It is still, tragically, all about us.
Perhaps that is Michael Jackson’s final song, his parting gift. We must have a bigger heart, a bigger vision.
It’s not all about us. ”
And yet, since we all choose to be a part celebrating his life, love for life and vision for a better tomorrow, we CAN enlighten his love, his love, not so much ours, by uplifting his legacy.
True, “Michael did not die of propofol per se.”. He departed due to the excruciating pain of years which preceded brief periods of healing while in exile. Then he returned to this chaos.
Harmony doesn’t necessarily come naturally. Harmony is all too often the reordering of chaos. The discord in the fan community craves simmering from anger so we can more easily move forward. And as Michael said, “There’s nothing that can’t be done if we raise our voice as one”.
Furthermore, as a part of the whole, united fanhood serves as respect for The One; The Circle of Life, in order to become harmonious.
We share in a common bond that is love and can be a power of example as Michael has been.
Like Michael said in TII, “Stand up, stand up”. Time is of the essence so, let’s stand up for him. To stand up for Michael is to take a stand for all in the name of love. That is; with focus on purpose rather than ourselves.
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Proving Michael’s innocence and uncovering the media’s and accusers’ lies is a number one task. While the general public thinks that MJ was guilty, people will justify their nastiness to him by saying “they had the right to”. But when they realize that they threw all those abominable accusations at an innocent man, I hope their conscience and fear of God (for those who believe) will take over.
If there are so many “true Christians” in the US they understand that they will finally answer to God for everything they did in their lives. Many will say they never did harm to anyone and have nothing to rebuke themselves for. While they think “there could be no smoke without fire” in Michael’s case they will remain calm and satisfied with themselves. However when they discover they lashed to near death an innocent man it will make them extremely uncomfortable – they will realize that they ALSO have innocent blood on their hands.
By now there can be no doubt that it was the anguish of all those horrible accusations from individual scoundrels, general public and the media which made Michael sleepless, forced him to resort to unconventional methods of seeking sleep and finally brought about his death.
We simply do not understand what it is like to be hated by the WHOLE WORLD – and without reason too.
And I don’t know why people are still arguing about the outcome of the trial. What is there to argue about?
Michael did not die of propofol per se. We’ve been told that propofol is used on a continuous basis (for many days running) in intensive care units when it is necessary to have patients immobilized for a long time and wake them up on demand. In a way Michael was in no less critical situation than those people and in such cases propofol IS used to put people under sedation – whether we call it sleep or not. And people can live happily ever after that! Propofol does not do damage to them IF IT IS GIVEN PROPERLY!
But in Michael’s case it wasn’t given properly! Michael thought that it was but it WASN’T! Propofol did not have a proper measuring device, it poured into his veins uncontrollably and this gives us reasons to believe that Michael could be dying not just ONCE, BUT SEVERAL TIMES IN MURRAY’S HANDS! And this is why he felt so terribly bad in the last few weeks. Not because of propofol – but because of the extreme overdosage of it and him going into a coma on a regular basis!
How can anyone doubt that Murray KILLED Michael? NO OTHER DOCTOR would have allowed a criminal thing like that! And not only was Murray giving propofol so negligently but in addition to that he left his patient for hours and WAS NOT EVEN LOOKING AT HIM!
And I am not even talking of Murray virtually experimenting on Michael by giving him huge dozes of Lorazepam and other sedatives – and not on the last day only, but earlier too as he was ordering vials of Lorazepam on a constant basis.
Murray should have been jailed FOR LIFE for all these crimes! At least for me the matter of his guilt is closed once and for all. He is guilty like hell and will carry this burden until he fully repents for what he did. Otherwise the retribution will be horrendous.
I really don’t understand what his “God-fearing” fellow countrymen are thinking about if they justify Murray’s crime. They have either lost all sense of reality and can no longer see the truth or are mere hypocrites in their “christianity”.
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“MJ Innocence advocacy is the most meaningful & productive mission I know of.”
Cawobeth, you are right. Proving Michael’s innocence is the most important mission of all. The primary thing people should understand is that Michael was slandered and all those accusations were terrible lies. Why and how they did it should also be investigated.
All the rest is of minor importance and will take care of itself.
P.S. I am now reading Jason and Blanca Francia’s testimonies and see that despite their huge effort to conceal the truth it is still possible to see some of it behind their lies. These people are LIARS and they know it.
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Yes, Lynande, I agree with what you say here. As MJ fans I feel as though we have a responsibility to uplift Michael’s legacy.
The arguing I notice as I work for MJ Innocence advocacy is so disheartening and so not Michael-like. .
I realize that there still exists so many lingering unsettled reactions & emotions in response to the Murray trial. Yet, really is there anything we can do about that awful day ?
What fans can do is re-direct their discomfort to working to give MJ a legacy that will ring true for all. There are so many doubters of his innocence we need to reach due to the perverse sensationalism of media.
So many fans seem to think that since they know he’s innocent that’s enough. I don’t feel that it is. Why should Prince, Paris & Blanket ever, ever have to answer to lies about their father ?
Yes, we all each have “different area of focus in the community” and many fans have been inspired by Michael in so many ways. It just seems to me that MJ fans (we all) need to establish common ground by expressing our love & admiration for him in a productive way.
MJ Innocence advocacy is the most meaningful & productive mission I know of.
We exist in tumultuous times and people of all ages are standing up for what we believe in.So why not MJ fans of all ages stand up for this man who has given so much. I feel like it’s our turn to do for him. Furthermore, to take a stand for Michael’s truth is to stand up for the value(s) of truth itself as love is our ultimate truth.
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Thank you, this is a wonderful post. Unfortunately it is what it is but I hope fans don’t lose themselves in all that fighting. Personally I don’t post in many forums because sometimes it feels like I can’t express my own opinion. I just hope that we can remember at the end of day that we are all here because of Michael and only because of him. At least that is how I feel. ❤
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@ lynande51
This is a big fight and I would like help from my friends and fellow fans and advocates of the true legacy of Michael Jackson in the fight and the fight to preserve ourselves as much as him.
Many of Michael’s fans remind me of all the different churches fighting each other. Some of those church goers can get pretty nasty with anyone who doesn’t believe their way. It’s really sad because that drives people away from the church and away from God.
Some of Michael’s fans are doing the same thing. How we talk and re-act to attacks, as fans reflect on Michael. It’s ok to have different opinions, but nobody has the right to be nasty to someone with a different slant. Michael was a role model and rarely said anything negative about anybody.
I love seeing the younger generation getting into his music, and hopefully, they’ll pass it on down to their kids and Michael’s message will continue. I will fight for Michael and defend him every chance I get, but I will try to be nice about it. Not always easy, lol. Some of the comments on the net really piss me off, but I know they’re just trying to incite a fight so I don’t reply. It is sad though, that the haters and a lot of so called fans behave the same way. The true fans should be above that, and that’s why I’m a fan of this site, along with a few others. I like getting the facts without hate.
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Great post Lynande51….. Beautifully said….
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I don’t have shaky hands. There are two responses of the human body to adversity. There is the fight or the flight. Some when they are cornered in an attack will run and hide. Some will stand to fight off the offenders. I have no flight in me, I only have fight. That is me and the way I am made up and the reason I do what I do for a living. The reason that I write here and advocate for Michael is because as one of his fans I am fighting for myself. I realized as a fan of someone who was nothing short of a genius in our age, one that will never be found again in our lifetime, will be ripped away from us unless we do something for ourselves. If we allow the opposition, the self proclaimed haters, to take that from us they are also taking that part of Michael’s legacy that is ours and in an attempt to destroy us they will destroy him. I decided that I would work at it by telling the truth about what started it in the first place.
I looked back to when it started for fans to have to hide their heads in shame or defend themselves and it started with the Chandler’s in 1993. They were the first to call us “crazy” with their reports of death threats that have absolutely no foundation what so ever. The lies told by “sources” that came from “authorities” that there were so many of these actually originated with Jordan Chandler’s father. One fan went, to their house as they like to say in their book, to Jordan’s school and shouted at him and called him a liar, painted graffiti on the wall of his office and left a message on the office answering machine swearing at them. No one tried to run him over, it was all a lie because unlike Tom Sneddon when some exaggerates to me, that is a lie.
It was a lie that shattered Michael’s life and was the beginning of disenfranchising Michael’s fans. They wanted to destroy him and the way to do that was to shame people when they were the voice of opposition to them. It was the beginning of the bullying of us and the disenfranchising of a musical legend because without us what would he have been?
So it is time for us to all stand together, put our own ideas about what Michael would have wanted, what Michael would have done and what we envision him to be aside and stand together. This is a big fight and I would like help from my friends and fellow fans and advocates of the true legacy of Michael Jackson in the fight and the fight to preserve ourselves as much as him. The legacy of him a a great artist of our times and a man that was innocent of horrific charges and the victim of ugly lies, the victim of a yellow journalism form of bullying not like anything seen before. The legacy that I fight for is that of a great artist and an innocent man.
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