Skip to content

March 3rd, 2005 Trial Analysis: Albert Lafferty (Cross Examination) and Davellin Arvizo (Direct Examination), Part 2 of 2

May 21, 2012

When they arrived at the ranch, Davellin claimed that Frank Cascio told her that there were people making threats against the Arvizo family:

17 At the time you were at the ranch before you

18 left with Mr. Salas, with Jose — Jesus, did you

19 hear anybody threaten you or any member of your

20 family.

21 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

22 THE COURT: Sustained.


24 THE COURT: Just a moment. He’ll have to ask

25 you another question.


27 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Well, can you tell us

28 whether or not you personally ever received any 697

1 comments from somebody that scared you.

2 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

3 MR. SNEDDON: It’s not a leading question.

4 It’s an open-ended question.

5 THE COURT: All right. Overruled.

6 THE WITNESS: There was one point that Frank

7 had told us that there was death threats on us.

Sneddon then goes on to ask Davellin about the filming of the rebuttal video at the home of Jackson’s videographer Hamid Moslehi, and she claimed that the tears that she cried were not for the good deeds that Jackson had done for her family, but rather because of the way that Gavin was teased at school after the documentary aired:

8 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Okay. Do you

9 remember a point in time where you — let me ask

10 this question: Have you ever been to the residence

11 of Hamid Moslehi.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And what was going on when you went to his

14 house. Why did you go there.

15 A. That’s where we did the rebuttal at.

16 Q. And where had you been prior to going to his

17 house.

18 A. The ranch.

19 Q. And who was at the ranch at that time.

20 A. Frank — no, Frank wasn’t there. Vinnie

21 was —

22 Q. Let me ask it this way: How did you get

23 from the ranch to his house.

24 A. Hamid came and picked us up.

25 Q. Who did.

26 A. Hamid.

27 Q. Who was in the car with you.

28 A. Me, my mom and my brothers. 698

1 Q. Okay. And you went to where.

2 A. To his house.

3 Q. Okay. And what was the — what was the —

4 why were you there.

5 A. To do the rebuttal film.

6 Q. Now, before you left the ranch that

7 particular night, did you have a conversation with

8 anybody about the film.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And who was that.

11 A. Dieter.

12 Q. And what did Dieter tell you.

13 A. To say nice things.

14 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.

15 MR. SNEDDON: Same purpose, Your Honor.

16 THE COURT: Overruled.

17 THE WITNESS: To say nice things and to not

18 talk about what goes on around the ranch.

19 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: I’m sorry.

20 A. What goes on in the ranch.

21 Q. I didn’t hear you. You’re going to have to

22 lean in there and talk —

23 A. To say nice things about Mr. Jackson.

24 Q. And you said something else.

25 A. And to not talk about what goes on in the

26 ranch.

27 Q. Where did this conversation take place.

28 A. I think it was the main house. 699

1 Q. What — what time was it when you left the

2 ranch.

3 A. It was night.

4 Q. Was it dark outside.

5 A. Yeah. It was late night.

6 Q. When you got to Hamid’s house, who else was

7 there.

8 A. Frank was there. Vinnie was there. And

9 another male, younger male was there. And Bradley

10 was there, Mr. Miller was there.

11 Q. Okay. And that night, you eventually ended

12 up in a video; is that correct.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. An interview.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Do you remember the name of the gentleman

17 who actually did the interviewing.

18 A. No. I don’t remember. He was a young male.

19 Q. Can you describe him at all.

20 A. Thin face. White skin. He was

21 young-looking. I don’t remember.

22 Q. Now, before — when you got to Mr. — when

23 you got to Hamid’s house and before the filming took

24 place, what were you doing. You personally, what

25 were you doing. Where you were in the house.

26 A. In Hamid’s house.

27 Q. Yes.

28 A. Standing, facing the — like the area where 700

1 we filmed it.

2 Q. Did you see where your mother was in the

3 house.

4 A. She was getting ready, like in the rest

5 room, like —

6 Q. Did you see your mom have any conversations

7 with anybody.

8 A. Don’t remember.

9 Q. Okay. Now, who participated in the video.

10 A. Me, my mom and my brothers.

11 Q. And how long did it last.

12 A. Very long time. We were there until, I

13 think it was like 4:00 in the morning.

14 Q. Now, during the interview — I want you to

15 speak for yourself, okay.

16 A. Okay.

17 Q. Nobody else. During the interview, you were

18 depicted at one point crying on the interview.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Okay. And why were you crying.

21 A. I was crying for my brother.

22 Q. And why were you crying for your brother.

23 A. Because I was talking about things about

24 him.

25 Q. What was so upsetting about that.

26 A. Because Gavin had heard, like, people say

27 that he was a faggot. And he would cry to me about

28 that. And that hurt me, being his older sister. I 701

1 wanted to protect him any way I can.

2 Q. Were there any other things that you had

3 heard that were upsetting you when you were talking

4 on this video that made you cry.

5 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


7 THE COURT: Overruled.

8 You may answer.

9 THE WITNESS: The only thing that hurt me

10 was things about my brother. There was no other

11 reason to cry.

12 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Didn’t have anything to do

13 with the defendant.

14 A. No.

Davellin then says that she initially liked Jackson, but those feelings faded, and that she was dishonest in the rebuttal video when she said that Jackson helped them with homework, and allowed the family to call him anytime:

18 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: On the video, there are

19 some statements with regard to Mr. Jackson

20 helping — helping you kids with homework. Do you

21 remember those statements.

22 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

23 MR. SNEDDON: Just foundational, Your Honor.

24 MR. MESEREAU: And hearsay.

25 THE COURT: Yeah, the objection is overruled.

26 You may answer the question. I’ll have it

27 read back for you.

28 (Record read.) 702 


2 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Did Mr. Jackson ever help

3 you with your homework.

4 A. No.

5 Q. Why are you smiling about that.

6 A. Becasue they took us out of school. There

7 was no homework to help us with.

8 Q. On the video, there are statements to the

9 effect that Mr. Jackson was always there and you had

10 a phone number where you could call him.

11 A. Uh-huh.

12 Q. Do you remember that.

13 A. Yeah.

14 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading.

15 THE COURT: Overruled.

16 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Was that statement true.

17 A. No.

18 Q. Why.

19 A. Because any phone number we had of him, that

20 Gavin had of him, it would get disconnected.

21 MR. MESEREAU: Excuse me, Your Honor. I

22 didn’t quite hear that. Could I have it read back,

23 please.

24 THE COURT: Yes.

25 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you.

26 (Record read.)

27 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you.

28 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: At this particular point in 703

1 time, with regard — I only want you to speak for

2 yourself, not for anybody else on that video. Okay.

3 There are statements on that video that —

4 about people thinking of Mr. Jackson as family.

5 A. Yeah.

6 Q. And as your dad.

7 A. Yeah.

8 Q. Or daddy. Only speaking for yourself at

9 this point in time, were those sentiments that you

10 shared.

11 A. At the beginning, I found him like a close

12 friend, but they started changing, my feelings

13 towards him.

14 Q. Why.

15 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; nonresponsive.

16 THE COURT: Just a moment, please.

17 Sustained; nonresponsive.

18 Do you want the question read back.

19 MR. SNEDDON: I do, because I thought it

20 was. Maybe I can look at it on the screen or read

21 it back.

22 (Record read.)

23 THE COURT: I sustained the objection. I

24 didn’t mean for you to read the answer.

25 THE REPORTER: I’m sorry.

26 THE COURT: The question was — just

27 rephrase the question so we can move on.

28 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: With regard to the 704

1 statements about considering Michael Jackson, the

2 defendant in this case, as “Daddy” or “Michael

3 Daddy,” did you share those sentiments.

4 A. No.

5 Q. Did you share them at one time.

6 A. As a close friend, yes.

7 Q. Pardon.

8 A. I felt him as a close friend, yes.

9 Q. When was that.

10 A. At the beginning.


Next, Sneddon asks about the interview with the Department of Children and Family Services:

10 Q. All right. After the filming took place,

11 where did you go. After you filmed at Hamid’s

12 house, where did you guys go that night.

13 A. Vinnie took us — we stood at a hotel in

14 Calabasas, I think. I think that was a period of

15 time.

16 Q. Did you remember a situation where you met

17 with some social workers.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And when did that occur. Before or after

20 the rebuttal film.

21 A. That was after the rebuttal film.

22 Q. Do you remember when in relationship to the

23 rebuttal film, in terms of time.

24 A. After.

25 Q. Okay. Bad question. How long after.

26 A. I think it was the next day. Next morning.

27 That morning. Because we did — we slept — we

28 didn’t really get that much sleep, and then the 706 

1 ladies came that morning.

2 Q. Okay. Where did the interview occur.

3 A. At Jay’s house.

4 Q. How did you get to Jay’s.

5 A. Vinnie took us.

6 Q. From where.

7 A. From Hamid’s house.

8 Q. From Hamid’s house.

9 A. Yeah.

10 Q. Now, were you a part of that conversation.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And prior to the time — let’s just try it

13 this way. What time — do you remember what time it

14 was when everybody started to arrive at the

15 apartment.

16 A. It was early. Late morning, early — yeah,

17 it was early afternoon.

18 Q. Okay. So who’s at the apartment.

19 A. Um —

20 Q. Before anybody arrives, who’s at the

21 apartment.

22 A. Jay — no. Jay wasn’t there. It was me, my

23 mom, my brothers.

24 Q. Who’s the first person to arrive.

25 A. Aja is.

26 Q. And Aja is who.

27 A. Chris Tucker’s fiancee.

28 Q. Okay. And when they arrived, did she bring 707

1 somebody with her.

2 A. She brought her little baby, Dustin.

3 Q. And who arrived after that.

4 A. One of Mr. Jackson’s security bodyguards.

5 Q. Can you describe this guy for us.

6 A. He was a big man, light skin, blondish-type

7 hair, orange, I don’t know. And he was just — big

8 arms.

9 Q. Called “buffed”.

10 A. Yeah.

11 Q. All right. Now, had you ever met him before

12 at this point in time.

13 A. No.

14 Q. And were you present when he actually came

15 into the apartment.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Did you answer the door.

18 A. No. I think the door was open.

19 Q. And did you hear him identify himself.

20 A. Yeah. He talked to my mom.

21 Q. Okay. Now, did anybody else arrive before

22 the social ladies — social workers.

23 A. Other than Aja and the bodyguard, no.

24 Q. Now, do you recall what happened when the

25 social service ladies arrived.

26 A. They asked everybody to leave. They only

27 wanted to talk to me and my mom and my brothers.

28 Q. How many ladies came. 708

1 A. Three ladies.

2 Q. Do you remember their names at all.

3 A. No.

4 Q. Now, did anything happen before, or at the

5 time that the ladies asked everybody to leave.

6 A. Yeah.

7 Q. What happened.

8 A. There was a time that Mr. Jackson’s

9 bodyguard pulled my mom aside into her room — well,

10 Jay’s room.

11 Q. So you couldn’t hear what was going on

12 inside that room.

13 A. No.

14 Q. Could you see anything.

15 A. Well, after he left —

16 Q. No —

17 A. Not after he left, but like the door —

18 Q. Let me rephrase the question. At that time,

19 when your mother and the bodyguard walked into the

20 bedroom, could you see anything at that point in

21 time.

22 A. No.

23 Q. Okay. Now, later, did you go into that

24 bedroom.

25 A. Later I could see into the bedroom.

26 Q. Okay. And what did you see.

27 A. There was, like, a black little square thing

28 on the bed. And I saw my mom grab it and put it on 709

1 top — inside the closet, on top.

2 Q. Okay. Now, did — were there any other

3 things that occurred before you started your

4 interview with the ladies.

5 A. No.

6 Q. Did you see a video played at any time.

7 A. Not that I remember.

8 Q. All right. Tell us what happened during the

9 interview. Who’s present during the interview.

10 A. Me, my mom and my brothers and the three

11 ladies.

12 Q. And were you interviewed all at the same

13 time or at separate times.

14 A. All together.

15 Q. And how did that occur.

16 A. They just asked us what were the sleeping

17 arrangements, how we felt about Mr. Jackson, and

18 that’s what I remember.

19 Q. Do you remember what you said during that

20 time.

21 A. I don’t remember.

22 Q. Were you present during the entire

23 conversation. All of you stayed there the whole

24 time.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Okay. Now, how long did that conversation

27 take.

28 A. About 30 minutes. It wasn’t that long. 710

1 Q. And you guys — when I say “you guys,” you

2 and your brothers and your sister and your mother —

3 all remained in the same room through the entire

4 conversation.

5 A. Me and my brothers and my mom, yeah.

6 Q. Yeah, your sister. I apologize.

7 Now, after that conversation with the social

8 ladies – all right – where did you go.

9 A. Aja took us back to the ranch, because —

10 Q. Took “us.” Who is “us”.

11 A. Me and my brothers. My mom stayed. But the

12 bodyguard wanted to take us, but we asked Aja to

13 take us.

14 Q. So the bodyguard was still there when you

15 guys finished the meeting.

16 A. Afterward. We didn’t know where he went.

17 And then he showed up afterwards. And we were,

18 like, near Aja’s car, and we were saying bye to her.

19 Q. And where did your mother go, to your

20 knowledge.

21 A. She stood there at Jay’s apartment.

22 Q. So you went back to the ranch, and did you

23 stay there, that night, at the ranch.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Okay.

This is a crucial part of Davellin’s testimony: in this excerpt, she claimed that she saw her brothers drinking alcohol in the wine cellar at Neverland, located under the arcade. Notice how she says that she was only in the wine cellar once; this is an inconsistency that Mesereau will exploit during his cross examination:

Q. I think where we left off was at Neverland

17 Ranch.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And you had described to us the arcade and

20 the cellar inside the arcade.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And I think what I asked you was, did you

23 ever see your brothers drink at the ranch.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. On how many occasions.

26 A. Once.

27 Q. And where.

28 A. It was in the wine cellar under the arcade. 722

1 Q. And who else was present at that time.

2 A. Mr. Jackson, Gavin, Star and Aldo.

3 Q. And what was going on when you — did you

4 walk down there with them, or did you join them

5 there.

6 A. No, I had always seen people walking down

7 there and they would come up with cups. But I never

8 knew what was really down there until one time I

9 walked in, and I just followed them when they were

10 going down.

11 Q. And this is the one time you’re talking

12 about.

13 A. Yeah.

14 Q. All right. When you followed them in there,

15 tell us what you saw.

16 A. When I walked into the wine cellar, I saw

17 Mr. Jackson pouring wine into cups.

18 Q. Into what.

19 A. Into cups.

20 Q. Lean forward. I’m sorry, we got to do that.

21 And how many cups.

22 A. I don’t know. They were just cups. I don’t

23 remember how many there were.

24 Q. Did everybody have one.

25 A. Yeah.

26 Q. Did you see anybody drink out of it.

27 A. Yeah.

28 Q. Who drank. 723

1 A. Well, I saw Gavin, Star and Aldo drinking.

2 Q. All right. Anybody else.

3 A. Well, Mr. Jackson was drinking also.

4 Q. Did you get offered something to drink.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And did you take it.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And what was it.

9 A. It was wine.

10 Q. What makes you think it was wine.

11 A. I don’t know. Because it was clear and — I

12 don’t know anything about liquor, so I don’t know.

13 Q. How did it taste.

14 A. Funny and, I don’t know, weird.

15 Q. All right. Is that — were there any other

16 occasions while you were at the ranch that you saw

17 your brothers drinking with Mr. Jackson.

18 A. No.

19 Q. Were there any other occasions at the ranch

20 where you drank.

21 A. No.

22 Q. How long were you downstairs in the wine

23 cellar.

24 A. Ten minutes.

25 Q. Did they all leave in ten minutes or did

26 just you leave.

27 A. Well, we all went up.

28 Q. Where did you go. 724

1 A. Back up to the arcade.

2 Q. Did you take your cups with you, or did you

3 leave them down there. Tell me what you did with

4 your cup.

5 A. Well, I drank some, and then we went

6 upstairs and I just left it on the counter.

7 Q. A counter where.

8 A. In the — in the arcade there’s a counter,

9 and you could just put it — I just put it right

10 there, and there’s like a slushy machine there next

11 to it.

12 Q. A what.

13 A. A slushy machine next to it. It’s kind of

14 like — I don’t know how to describe it. It’s just

15 a counter, and then behind it there’s like a fake

16 cash register and stuff.

17 Q. You put your cup there.

18 A. Uh-huh.

19 Q. Now, with regard to the other individuals

20 that were in the cellar, let’s talk about them one

21 by one. Okay.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. You came up the stairs and put your cup on

24 the counter there.

25 A. Yeah.

26 Q. With regard to the defendant, Michael

27 Jackson, did he come up the stairs at the same time

28 as you. 725

1 A. Well, yeah, one after another.

2 Q. And so everybody came upstairs.

3 A. Yeah.

4 Q. Everybody at the same time.

5 A. Yeah.

6 Q. Did — when you all got upstairs and you

7 were all back in this arcade area, what went on

8 then.

9 A. They just listened — well, we all listened

10 to music and then they were playing some games.

11 Q. By “they,” who do you mean.

12 A. Well, all of us. Gavin, Star, and then Mr.

13 Jackson was listening to music.

14 Q. Did Mr. Jackson stay there.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Now, with regard to the cups that everybody

17 had downstairs, can you tell us whether anybody

18 besides yourself brought their cups upstairs.

19 A. Everybody did.

20 Q. When you were up there, did you see whether

21 or not the people who brought their cups upstairs

22 continued to use those cups and continued to drink.

23 A. I saw them sipping on it and drinking it. I

24 don’t know when they stopped or — but from what I

25 saw, they kept drinking it.

26 Q. Did you see your brother Gavin drinking

27 upstairs.

28 A. Yeah. 726

1 Q. And your brother Star.

2 A. Yeah.

3 Q. And Aldo.

4 A. Yeah.

5 Q. And how about the defendant.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. How long were you up there in the arcade

8 with them that time.

9 A. Not very long because it was already night

10 and I was tired, so I didn’t stay there very long.

11 Q. When you left the arcade that night, can you

12 tell us whether or not anybody left with you.

13 A. No, they stood there.

14 Q. I’m sorry.

15 A. No, they stood there.

16 Q. Now, when — when you came up the stairs out

17 of the cellar —

18 A. Yeah.

19 Q. — okay. – is there a door to that cellar.

20 A. What do you mean, like “door”. Like when

21 you walk down the stairs, I don’t remember seeing a

22 door. That’s not the actual wine cellar. You got

23 to go to the right, and there’s a little room and

24 that’s where the wine bottles are at.

Davellin goes on to describe walking into Jackson’s bedroom one night, and seeing Jackson, her brothers, and Frank Cascio’s younger brother Aldo, with empty bottles of alcohol in the room:

14 Q. Now, during the time that you were at

15 Neverland Valley Ranch, did you ever go into Mr.

16 Jackson’s bedroom.

17 A. During the stay at Neverland Ranch, yes, I

18 did once.

19 Q. How many times.

20 A. Once.

21 Q. And do you remember when it was that you

22 went into his bedroom, in terms of how long you’d

23 been there once you got back from Miami.

24 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Misstates the

25 evidence; leading question.

26 THE COURT: Sustained as to misstates the

27 evidence. Just rephrase it.

28 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: You told the ladies and 728

1 gentlemen of the jury that you had been in Mr.

2 Jackson’s bedroom on one occasion.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. This is at the ranch.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. All right. When, in point in time, was it

7 that you went into his bedroom. Was it in the

8 daytime or in the nighttime.

9 A. It was in the nighttime.

10 Q. And was it before — was it after you

11 arrived back from Miami.

12 A. Yeah.

13 Q. So it was during that time frame.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Now, would you tell us the circumstances

16 under which you got into Mr. Jackson’s bedroom.

17 A. I went after the boys, because there’s no

18 way I could get into the room unless it was after

19 them.

20 Q. Why is that.

21 A. Because there’s a code to get into his room.

22 Q. Did you have the code.

23 A. No.

24 Q. And you said the boys went — you followed

25 the boys.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Was there anybody with the boys.

28 A. Aldo was there, I think. I think Mr. 729

1 Jackson was already in the room. I’m not sure.

2 Q. So you followed them into the room, in any

3 case.

4 A. Yeah.

5 Q. Okay. Describe what you saw when you got

6 into the room.

7 A. There’s a couch.

8 Q. Lean into the mike. Nice and loud, please.

9 A. There’s a couch there. There’s a music

10 thing. There’s a little game that — that’s all I

11 remember. And then if you go straight back, there’s

12 his bathroom, and then right up next to the door of

13 the bathroom there’s, like, a desk and it has a

14 phone on there.

15 Q. Now, when you followed the boys into the

16 room, what part of the room did you go into at

17 first.

18 A. Just that front area. I guess it’s like a

19 living-room-type.

20 Q. And how long were you there.

21 A. Ten minutes. Not that long.

22 Q. And Mr. Jackson was there.

23 A. Yeah. I don’t remember. I just remember us

24 like sitting and me looking around, like, because

25 I’d never been in there before.

26 Q. Okay. Did you ever go upstairs.

27 A. Yes. I went upstairs after.

28 Q. And when you got upstairs, describe the 730

1 upstairs to me.

2 A. There’s a bed in the middle and then there’s

3 a little nightstand. There’s a bunch of figurines.

4 When you first walk up the stairs, like, a bunch of

5 like toys and like figurines right here. And then

6 there’s a screen that can be pulled down to watch

7 movies. That’s all I remember.

8 Q. Do you remember whether the screen was down

9 or up at the time you went in.

10 A. I think it was down already.

11 Q. Now, who was in the bedroom.

12 A. Mr. Jackson, Gavin, Star, Aldo and me.

13 Q. Okay. Where was Mr. Jackson in the room.

14 A. Well, after we all got settled, Mr. Jackson

15 was laying on the bed, and then Gavin was next to

16 him, and then Star. That’s what I remember.

17 Q. Do you remember where Aldo was.

18 A. I think he was sitting on like the corner of

19 the bed. And I was sitting on a chair.

20 Q. Go ahead.

21 A. I was sitting on a chair.

22 Q. When you walked into that room that time,

23 did you see any alcohol in the room.

24 A. Yes. I saw empty bottles or half full

25 bottles.

26 Q. Of what.

27 A. Of alcohol — I know the shape of bottles,

28 but I don’t know what they were, like the names. 731

1 Q. Where did you see it.

2 A. Some were on the nightstand. Some were on

3 the desk, like a stand where the computer was. Some

4 were on that, where the figurines were.

Next, Sneddon asks Davellin to describe a shopping trip that she went on with Frank Casio to buy luggage for her trip to Brazil, and a meeting with Jamie Masada at the Laugh Factory, where none of the Arvizo family complained about their alleged imprisonment at Neverland:

20 Q. You told the ladies and gentlemen of the

21 jury that there was a time that you went to that

22 Calabasas hotel that you identified in those

23 photographs.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Now, while you were at that particular

26 hotel – okay. – did you go anywhere with Frank Tyson

27 or Vinnie Amen.

28 A. Yes. 736 

1 Q. Where did you go.

2 A. They took us to go get passports.

3 Q. Did you go with them.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Where else.

6 A. That’s all I remember right now.

7 Q. Did you ever go shopping.

8 A. Oh, we did go shopping one time.

9 Q. Where did you go.

10 A. We went to like an outlet place to go pick

11 up some luggages. And then we went to the mall and

12 picked up some clothes.

13 Q. And what was the reason you went shopping.

14 A. They told us we were going to Brazil.

15 Q. I’m sorry, I couldn’t hear you.

16 A. Because they told us we were going to

17 Brazil.

18 Q. Who told you that.

19 A. Frank. And then earlier on Dieter had

20 already said that.

21 Q. Did they say why you were going to Brazil.

22 A. Because they said that — to get us away

23 because there was death threats on us.

24 Q. Who told you that.

25 A. Dieter. And then Frank told me another

26 time, also.

27 Q. And you mentioned earlier in your testimony

28 that you had made a trip to The Laugh Factory. 737

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Okay. Where is The Laugh Factory; do you

3 know.

4 A. It’s in Hollywood.

5 Q. And do you remember — was it during the

6 time you were at Calabasas or some other time.

7 A. I think it was during that time.

8 Q. Now, who went to The Laugh Factory.

9 A. We all — Vinnie, my mom, my brothers and me

10 went to The Laugh Factory. But my mom and Gavin

11 were the only ones that got off.

12 Q. “Got off.” What do you mean, “got off”.

13 A. Got off the car and went to go see Jamie.

14 Because Vinnie told us to stay —

15 Q. Just slow down. Let’s take it one at a

16 time. Okay. Make sure we got all the characters

17 here.

18 You got into a car. You left from

19 Calabasas, and you went to The Laugh Factory.

20 A. Yeah.

21 Q. Who’s in the car.

22 A. Vinnie, me, my mom, and my brothers.

23 Q. All right. Now, you get to The Laugh

24 Factory. Who leaves the car.

25 A. My mom and my brother Gavin.

26 Q. Okay. Now, did Vinnie tell you something at

27 that point in time.

28 A. He told me and Star to stay. 738

1 Q. Did he say why.

2 A. No.

3 Q. So your mother and Gavin went inside.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Now, did you ever go inside during that

6 trip.

7 A. Yes, because Vinnie — sorry.

8 Q. That’s all right. We’ll take it one step at

9 a time. So you went inside.

10 Now, how long had it been before — how long

11 were you in the car with your brother and with this

12 Vinnie person that you’ve identified in the

13 photograph before you went inside.

14 A. About 15 minutes. About 15 minutes.

15 Q. Okay. Now, what happened.

16 A. Um —

17 Q. Why was it that you went inside.

18 A. Because Vinnie kept saying, “Where’s your

19 mom. Where’s your mom. Go get her.” Because he

20 was, I don’t know, impatient. He wanted us to

21 leave.

22 Q. Did he know, to your knowledge, who your

23 mother was meeting with.

24 A. Just Jamie.

25 Q. Now, when you went — you told the jury you

26 went inside.

27 Do you want some water.

28 A. Yeah. 739

1 Q. All right. Did Star go in with you.

2 A. No.

3 Q. Why.

4 A. Vinnie told him to stay.

5 Q. So he let you go, but he kept Star.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. All right. Now, you went inside. And when

8 you went inside, who did you see.

9 A. I saw Gavin, my mom and Bill.

10 Q. Did — okay. Anybody else.

11 A. That was it.

12 Q. Now, the person you’ve identified as Bill —

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. — had you ever met him before.

15 A. Never.

16 Q. This is the first time you met him.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. How long were you inside with your mother

19 and Gavin and this person you’ve identified as Bill.

20 A. Five minutes, because I just ran and told —

21 I just ran in and told my mom what Vinnie told me to

22 tell her.

23 Q. So after that, did you leave The Laugh

24 Factory.

25 A. Yes. And I went back outside.

26 Q. Who came with you.

27 A. My mom and Gavin stood there a little bit

28 longer and then they came out. 740 

1 Q. Did — while you were at the Laugh Factory

2 that day, did you ever see Jamie Masada.

3 A. Yeah, he was sitting right there.

4 Q. Right where.

5 A. With my mom and Gavin and Bill.

6 Q. So he was there.

7 A. Yeah.

8 Q. So how long do you think in total that it

9 was that your mother was indeed with this person

10 Bill and Jamie Masada.

11 A. I think about 30 minutes.

12 Q. Now, after you came out of The Laugh

13 Factory, where — did you get back in the car.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And your mother and Gavin came out at some

16 point, I would assume.

17 A. Yeah.

18 Q. You all got in the car.

19 A. Yeah.

In the last part of her testimony for the day, right before the court adjourned, Davellin described going to Toys R Us with Jackson, her brothers, and a few fans, and she also describes how Gavin had to be taken to the hospital to give doctors a sample of his urine for testing. She also described being told by Frank Cascio to leave a suitcase full of Gavin’s clothes at Neverland as they left to be taken to their grandmother’s house at Janet’s request:

7 Q. Okay. Do you remember an occasion after you

8 came back from Calabasas — I’ll get away from that.

9 At any time while you were at Neverland

10 Ranch, did you ever go on a trip to Toys R Us.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Do you remember, in relationship to your

13 time that you spent at Neverland Valley Ranch, when

14 that was.

15 A. I don’t remember.

16 Q. I mean, was it like early on, late on, in

17 the middle; do you remember.

18 A. In the middle. And later on. Like

19 somewhere in there.

20 Q. Do you remember who you went with.

21 A. Mr. Jackson. Aldo. Marie Nicole. Gavin.

22 Star. Me. Frank went. Chris, the bodyguard went

23 also, I think.

24 Q. Who.

25 A. Chris, Mr. Jackson’s bodyguard also.

26 Q. A guy by the name of Chris.

27 A. Yeah.

28 Q. Okay. 755

1 A. And we had picked up some fans also.

2 Q. Where did you pick up some fans.

3 A. Driving down the road, like before we made a

4 turn. They were on the corner.

5 Q. Is this on the ranch premises or off the

6 premises.

7 A. Off.

8 Q. And how many of them went with you.

9 A. I don’t really remember how many there were.

10 I just — I just remember that one boy.

11 Q. And then you went where. Do you remember

12 what town you went to, to go to Toys R Us.

13 A. I don’t remember.

14 Q. How far it was.

15 A. 20 minutes. I don’t remember. It wasn’t

16 close by, though.

17 Q. I’m sorry.

18 A. It wasn’t close by, though.

19 Q. And how long were you there at the store.

20 A. 45 minutes. 30 minutes.

21 Q. What was going on.

22 A. They were just getting toys and we were just

23 shopping.

24 Q. Who was.

25 A. Everybody that went.

26 Q. So everybody was buying things.

27 A. Yeah.

28 Q. What did you buy. 756

1 A. I think I got some roller skates. I think I

2 got roller skates.

3 Q. So after this trip to the toy store, where

4 did you go.

5 A. Back to the ranch.

6 Q. Now, with your brother — his cancer’s been

7 in remission, you said.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And to your knowledge, does your brother

10 still have to go back and see the doctor

11 periodically.

12 A. Yes, he does.

13 Q. How often.

14 A. Well, now that they —

15 Q. Let me —

16 A. Back then.

17 Q. Yeah, back then.

18 A. Okay. He would have to go every so many

19 weeks. Because they were monitoring his kidney.

20 Q. And was there something that he had to do in

21 connection with that monitoring.

22 A. Yes, he did.

23 Q. What was that.

24 A. He would have to pee in a bottle for two

25 days or 24 hours, something like that.

26 Q. And have you ever seen this bottle.

27 A. Yes, I have.

28 Q. Could you describe it to us. 757

1 A. It’s about this height, of this.

2 Q. Of the water container there.

3 A. Yes. And then it has a thick handle, it’s

4 plastic. And it’s got a real secure, like, top.

5 Q. Now, while you were at the ranch, did you

6 receive any information – don’t tell me what it

7 was – that caused you to go looking for your

8 brothers about the trip to the hospital.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. From who was it that you got the

11 information.

12 A. My mother.

13 Q. And did you do something as a result of that

14 information.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And what did you do.

17 A. I went to Mr. Jackson’s — because there’s

18 two doors. A door that goes straight into the room

19 and there’s a door that goes into a hallway that

20 goes into his room. That door, I was knocking and

21 pounding on.

22 Q. Okay. When you say “that door,” I’m not

23 exactly clear yet. Talk about that again.

24 A. Because there’s a door that goes straight

25 into his room. That’s the one that has the code on

26 it.

27 Q. Right.

28 A. Then there’s a door down — that’s on the 758

1 hallway, in the front of the hallway. That door was

2 locked.

3 Q. Okay.

4 A. So I was pounding on that door.

5 Q. You were pounding on that door. So you

6 never got into the hallway.

7 A. No, it was locked.

8 Q. And did anybody ever come to the door.

9 A. No.

10 Q. Did you go back — where did you go after

11 that.

12 A. I went to my mom and told her that, “They’re

13 not letting me in”; that, “They’re not answering.”

14 Q. Now, after the — after — the day after the

15 incident where you were pounding on the door –

16 okay. – did you see your mother leave the ranch.

17 A. Yeah, her, Gavin and Vinnie were taking

18 Gavin to his doctor’s appointment.

19 Q. Did you actually see them leave.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Do you know whether it was in the morning or

22 the afternoon or —

23 A. It was in the morning.

24 Q. And did you actually see them get into the

25 car.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Did you see whether or not at that point in

28 time Gavin had his bottle full of urine. 759 

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And who was actually physically carrying the

3 bottle at that point.

4 A. I think Gavin was carrying it at the

5 beginning, but he passed it to my mom.

6 Q. Now, did you see where they were seated in

7 the car.

8 A. Gavin was sitting in the back and my mom was

9 in the front and Vinnie was driving.

10 Q. And was it at this point — when your mom

11 was in the front of the car, could you tell us

12 whether or not she had the bottle at that point.

13 A. I think she did, because right before they

14 got in the car, that’s when Gavin passed the bottle

15 to him — to my mom.

16 Q. So I take it you just saw them drive off.

17 A. Yeah.

18 Q. Now, later that day, did you see your

19 brother Gavin.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. After he had gone to the hospital.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Was he back on the ranch.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Did you see him drive up or —

26 A. Vinnie drove him up.

27 Q. Did you see that.

28 A. Yeah. 760

1 Q. So where were you when you saw Vinnie and

2 your brother come back.

3 A. I was in front of the main house.

4 Q. Was your mother with them.

5 A. No.

6 Q. All right. When your brother got out of the

7 car, where did he go.

8 A. I think he went to go look for Mr. Jackson.

9 Q. I’m sorry.

10 A. I think he went to go look for Mr. Jackson.

11 I don’t remember.

12 Q. But your mother wasn’t there.

13 A. No.

23 Q. Now, after your brother and Vinnie came back

24 from the hospital trip – okay. – at some point in

25 time after that, did you have a telephone

26 conversation with your mother.

27 A. Yeah.

28 Q. And as a result of the telephone 762

1 conversation with your mother, did you do something.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. What did you do.

4 A. I packed all of our stuff and I just threw

5 everything together. My stuff was pretty much

6 already together. Just the boys’ clothes were

7 everywhere.

8 Q. And what did you do with the boys’ clothes.

9 A. Put them back in suitcases.

10 Q. Now, when you talked to your mother on the

11 phone – okay.

12 A. Yeah.

13 Q. – was anybody present with you.

14 A. No.

15 Q. And at any point in time, were you present

16 when your mother was talking to anybody else at the

17 ranch on the phone before you packed your bags.

18 A. I don’t remember.

19 Q. Now, when you come out after packing your

20 bags, do you know where you’re going.

21 A. I’m going to my grandparents’ house.

22 Q. And did anything — did anything happen when

23 you came out.

24 A. Came out of the ranch, or —

25 Q. No, no, no. You packed your bags, you’re

26 going to get a ride, and you’re going back to your

27 grandparents’ house, right.

28 A. Uh-huh. 763

1 Q. Before you left, did anything happen.

2 A. Yeah.

3 Q. Okay. Tell the jury what happened.

4 A. Well, Vinnie came — or I think it was Frank

5 came up to me and said, “Just leave that suitcase.”

6 And —

7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.

8 MR. SNEDDON: It’s offered under 223, Your

9 Honor.

10 THE COURT: All right. It will be

11 conditionally accepted.

12 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Lean into the

13 microphone.

14 A. Well, Frank had told me, “Just leave that

15 suitcase.” And Gavin said, “Yeah, just leave it.”

16 It was Gavin’s things in there.

17 Q. And did you leave the suitcase.

18 A. Yeah.

19 Q. And to your knowledge, did you ever get that

20 suitcase back.

21 A. No.

22 Q. You didn’t see it come back.

23 A. I don’t remember getting it back.

24 Q. When you left the ranch, who left.

25 A. Me and my brothers.

26 Q. Do you know who took you.

27 A. Either Frank or Vinnie. I don’t remember.

28 Q. Where did they take you. 764

1 A. To my grandparents’ house.

2 Q. When you got to your grandparents’ house,

3 who was there.

4 A. My mom and my grandparents. I think Jay was

5 there, too.

6 Q. Who.

7 A. I think Jay was there, too.

8 Q. Now, did you ever go back to Neverland

9 Valley Ranch after that.

10 A. No.

11 THE COURT: Take our afternoon break now.

12 MR. SNEDDON: Thank you.

13 THE COURT: See you tomorrow morning.

14 Remember the admonitions.

15 (The proceedings adjourned at 2:30 p.m.)


Davellin’s cross examination began on the next day, as well as the beginning of Star Arvizo’s direct examination! Stay tuned…..

Here is the link to the next day’s testimony:

9 Comments leave one →
  1. nannorris permalink
    May 21, 2012 7:27 am

    Thanks for doing these court transcript summaries .They are excellent


  2. lynande51 permalink
    May 21, 2012 8:50 am

    Here I go before we get any farther and hear any more about the urine test and the reason that Vinnie supposedly dumped it I will fix something. Janet Arvizo said that Michael and his “people” were worried that it would show that Gavin had been drinking. That is just poppycock!
    What Gavin was having done is called a creatinine clearance test. That shows how well his remaining kidney is functioning. You start urinating into a container called a urinal and it is all dumped into the container that looks like a gallon jar (think mayonnaise) it is plastic and brown not clear. There is a reason for the color but I don’t remember what it is and it doesn’t matter anyway because you can’t see through it.It has a screw on cover. You start at night and go through the next day until your first urine on the second day, and this container is kept on ice.
    Now here is where the math comes in. The average urinary output in an adult with two healthy kidneys is 30 cc’s per hour. That is an average. There was 90 cc’s in the jar when it was delivered to Kaiser Permanente. That would have been about three hours and remember what I am talking about is 90 cc’s in a container that would hold 3785.42 cc’s because like I said it was a gallon container. In order for it to be full Gavin would have had 126 cc’s of urine output per hour for 24 hours. or 4 times the urinary output of two kidneys. His one kidney could have been healthy enough for his output to be 30 cc’s per hour but nobodys are healthy enough to urinate 4 times that amount.
    Now for the part you are going to really hate me for after I made you read all that math: they would never have looked for alcohol!The Doctors order was for a creatinine clearance test. It takes a doctors order to test for alcohol. A lab does not just run a UDS on urine unless they are told to because it has to be billed and there has to be a reason for it and you have to list it in the order under the part called rational. The doctor could only order it if a police officer required it as part of an arrest if he did not have Gavin’s permission. Janet could not even ask to have it done because even a 13 year old has the right to refuse drug or alcohol testing if they don’t want to and it is not related to a criminal event. That is a given it is the law and it is the law in all 50 states. You do not have to submit to a UDS ( urine drug screen which is what would show the alcohol in your urine) unless you are obviously under the influence and have been caught operating a vehicle or committing some other crime. So they would never have looked for it but then the whole urine story is hogwash just like the alcohol, anyway so why bring reason into it.
    Not to mention the part that all it takes is 10 cc’s out of whatever is turned in to do the creatinine clearance test so there was plenty for that or to detect alcohol if that was what they wanted. All the urine gets mixed togehter in the container it doesn’t have layers it is a fluid and of there was alcohol in all of it there was alcohol in the 10 cc’s that were required if the doctor had ordered a UDS.The reason that they did not do the creatinine clearance test is because the lab tech forgot to collect a blood sample from Gavin because you have to have a blood sample to complete the creatinine clearance test. So that whole story about dumping the urine was just some of Janet Arvizo’s creative script writing just like the drinking.


  3. stacy2 permalink
    May 21, 2012 2:06 pm

    I wonder if we will ever hear that interview with Gavin’s friend from high school that was promised by Debbie of reflection of dance.


  4. shellywebstere permalink
    May 21, 2012 7:16 pm


    I don’t think it will happen. Debbie started speaking about that interview 2 years ago.


  5. lynande51 permalink
    May 22, 2012 7:25 am

    This is off topic but here are a couple of articles about the John Travolta case. They are good to read because they give insight into just how settlements are reached whether the person being sue wants them to be or not. This is a good example because one attorney dismissed the case without prejudice for personality differences with John Doe #1 when it was proven that John Travolta was not in Los Angeles on the day that he said the incident occured. What is the best part of the story? Gloria Allred is getting sued by another unscrupulous lawyer LOL!This will be the high point of her entire career! Sorr yI just couldn’t resist.


  6. Moi permalink
    May 22, 2012 12:55 pm

    One correction: “…and Jackson’s younger cousin Aldo.” He’s not MJ’s cousin. That’s Aldo Cascio, Frank’s little brother, right?

    Anyway, thanks for these summaries! I wish we could contact/interview one of those past boyfriends about what Davellin supposedly told them re: her mother’s plans against MJ, etc. Very, very interesting.


  7. sanemjfan permalink
    May 22, 2012 1:44 pm

    Thank you for that correction! I don’t know what I was thinking; I’ll be sure to double check my work next time before posting! I’ll change it right now.


  8. stacy2 permalink
    May 22, 2012 2:12 pm

    “So that whole story about dumping the urine was just some of Janet Arvizo’s creative script writing just like the drinking.”

    The Arvizos are very horrible people, aren’t they?



  1. March 3rd, 2005 Trial Analysis: Albert Lafferty (Cross Examination) and Davellin Arvizo (Direct Examination), Part 1 of 2 « Vindicating Michael

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: