March 8th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Star Arvizo Cross-Examination, Part 1 of 3

Sneddon continued his direct examination of Star Arvizo by asking Star to describe what Jackson allegedly told him and Gavin about not mentioning their alcohol consumption to their sister Davellin, because she may tell her mother Janet:

1 Santa Maria, California

2 Tuesday, March 8, 2005

3 8:30 a.m.

4

5 THE COURT: Good morning.

6 THE JURY: (In unison) Good morning.

7 MR. MESEREAU: Good morning.

8 THE COURT: You may proceed.

9

10 STAR DAVID ARVIZO

11 Having been previously sworn, resumed the

12 stand and testified further as follows:

13

14 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)

15 BY MR. SNEDDON:

16 Q. Good morning.

17 A. Good morning.

18 Q. I just have a few questions left. Okay.

19 You’ve indicated to the ladies and gentlemen

20 of the jury that an individual by the name of Aldo

21 was present during some of the events that you’ve

22 described; do you recall that.

23 A. Yes. Yes.

24 Q. Were there times when you were at the ranch

25 and Aldo was not there.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Were there times when you were at the ranch

28 when Mr. Jackson and Aldo was not there. 1189

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. With regard to your sister – okay. –

3 Davellin —

4 A. Okay.

5 Q. — did Mr. Jackson ever make any statements

6 about Davellin to you.

7 A. He told us not to tell her anything because

8 he’s afraid we might tell our mom.

9 Q. About what.

10 A. About what we’re doing.

11 Q. What do you mean. What were you doing at

12 the time that Mr. Jackson was making those

13 statements to you.

14 A. Drinking.

Sneddon ends his direct examination by asking Star if there were any other times when Jackson allegedly told him to keep all of their drinking activities a secret, and Star testified that Jackson allegedly said that he shouldn’t tell anyone, “not even if they put a gun to your head”:

17 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: At any time while you were

18 at the ranch during the period of time from Miami

19 till the time that you left, did you have any other

20 conversations with Mr. Jackson that you haven’t told

21 us about. Just “Yes” or “No.”

22 A. Yes. Yes.

23 Q. Okay. And with regard to those

24 conversations, what topics have you not told us

25 about so far in your testimony that you had a

26 discussion with Mr. Jackson about.

27 A. There was one time Michael told me — well,

28 it was me, my brother and Aldo were on the bed, and 1194

1 he was telling us not to tell anything that

2 happened, “Not even if they put a gun to your head.”

3 Q. Did he say why.

4 A. No.

5 MR. SNEDDON: No further questions, Your

6 Honor.

7 THE COURT: Cross-examine.

8 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, please, Your Honor.

Mesereau began his cross-examination of Star Arvizo by giving his usual introduction of “I speak for Mr. Jackson. I’m on his side, okay?”, and then asked Star to count the number of times he has testified under oath (prior to his cross examination), and then he repeatedly questioned Star about the alarms that go off outside of Jackson’s bedroom whenever someone approaches.

Star claimed during his direct examination that he witnessed Jackson abusing Gavin twice by sneaking into Jackson’s bedroom unannounced, but how could he do that if the alarms went off both times? Wouldn’t Jackson had heard the alarms and stopped his alleged abuse because he knew that someone was approaching his bedroom since the alarms went off? Mesereau certainly wanted the jury to ask themselves those questions! Star claimed that the alarms could not be heard from the upstairs suite when the doors were closed.

10 CROSS-EXAMINATION

11 BY MR. MESEREAU:

12 Q. Good morning.

13 A. Good morning.

14 Q. Mr. Arvizo, we’ve never spoken before,

15 right.

16 A. No.

17 Q. We’ve never met each other before, right.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. When you say “Yes,” we actually haven’t met,

20 right.

21 A. What.

22 Q. You’ve never met me before, right.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. When you say “Yes,” do you mean we’ve met or

25 we haven’t met.

26 A. We haven’t met.

27 Q. Okay. My name is Thomas Mesereau. Okay.

28 A. Okay. 1195

1 Q. And I speak for Mr. Jackson. All right.

2 A. Okay.

3 Q. I’m on his side. You know that.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Okay. Now, I’m going to ask you a bunch of

6 questions. Okay.

7 A. Okay.

8 Q. And I’m going to ask you some questions

9 about some things you said in the courtroom. All

10 right.

11 A. Okay.

12 Q. If anything I say is not clear to you, don’t

13 answer it. Okay.

14 A. Okay.

15 Q. Just tell me, “I don’t understand.”

16 A. Okay.

17 Q. Is that all right.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. If I say something that seems confusing, for

20 whatever reason, just tell me, “I’m confused. Could

21 you repeat the question.” Is that okay.

22 A. Okay.

23 Q. We don’t want you to answer anything if you

24 don’t really understand what I’m asking you. Is

25 that understood.

26 A. Okay.

27 Q. Okay. Now, you’ve testified before today,

28 right. 1196

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. How many times have you testified under oath

3 before today.

4 A. Three times.

5 Q. Three times. And could you please tell the

6 jury the three times that you testified under oath

7 before — I said “today.” I meant yesterday. Okay.

8 Please tell the jury the other three times that you

9 testified under oath.

10 A. Two times at the grand jury, and one time

11 yesterday.

12 Q. Are they the only times you’ve testified

13 under oath before.

14 A. I think so.

15 Q. Do you know for sure.

16 A. Not really.

17 Q. Well, you did testify under oath in a

18 deposition in the J.C. Penney case, right.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And how old were you when you testified in

21 that case under oath.

22 A. I don’t remember, but I was really young.

23 Q. Were you about ten.

24 A. No.

25 Q. Were you nine.

26 A. I think I was eight.

27 Q. You were eight. Okay.

28 Was that the first time you ever testified 1197

1 under oath.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Okay. And you testified under oath in

4 support of what your mother was claiming happened to

5 her, right.

6 A. What happened to us.

7 Q. “What happened to us.” You, Gavin and your

8 mother, right.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Okay. Let me ask you some questions about

11 the alarm system at Neverland.

12 A. Okay.

13 Q. You were interviewed by the police on

14 numerous occasions about what happened at Neverland,

15 right.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Do you know about how many times you’ve been

18 interviewed by the police about what happened at

19 Neverland.

20 A. Twice.

21 Q. And do you remember giving them descriptions

22 about the alarm system.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. You have given the police different

25 descriptions of the alarm system from time to time,

26 right.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. And let me ask you a couple of questions 1198

1 about the alarm. Is there an alarm that goes off

2 when someone enters Michael Jackson’s bedroom.

3 A. Through the hallway or through his bedroom.

4 Q. Let’s start with the hallway.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Is there an alarm that goes off when you

7 enter Michael Jackson’s hallway.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. How do you know that there’s an alarm that

10 goes off when you enter Michael Jackson’s hallway.

11 A. Because while you’re walking through the

12 hallway, you can hear it.

13 Q. And have you heard it before.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. When did you hear the alarm that goes off

16 when you enter Michael Jackson’s hallway.

17 A. Every time you walk through it.

18 Q. How many times do you think you’ve heard

19 that alarm go off.

20 A. A lot of times.

21 Q. And it’s pretty loud, isn’t it.

22 A. Not really.

23 Q. Well, do you know why the alarm is there.

24 A. No.

25 Q. Did you ever ask Mr. Jackson, “Why is the

26 alarm there.”

27 A. No.

28 Q. You have set the alarm off yourself, haven’t 1199

1 you.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. How many times have you set the alarm off

4 yourself when walking through Michael Jackson’s

5 hallway.

6 A. It’s not an alarm. It’s just a bell.

7 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, I’m sorry, it’s

8 hard to hear the witness here.

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You say it’s not an alarm,

10 it’s just a bell.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Is it an electric bell.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. How do you know it’s electric.

15 A. Because it doesn’t sound real.

16 Q. It doesn’t sound real.

17 A. Yeah.

18 Q. It sounds like a loud bell, doesn’t it.

19 A. It sounds electric.

20 Q. Have you ever tried to turn that alarm

21 system off.

22 A. I don’t know how to.

23 Q. Did you ever ask anyone, “How do you turn

24 that alarm system off.”

25 A. No.

26 Q. Okay. So, as far as you know, every time

27 you’ve walked through that hallway, that bell has

28 gone off, right. 1200

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And your understanding is that the purpose

3 of that bell is to let Michael Jackson know if

4 somebody goes through his hallway, right.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. That’s the purpose of the alarm, right.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Did you ever have any discussion with any

9 security guard at Neverland about that alarm system.

10 A. No.

11 Q. Did you ever ask anyone, “How does it work.”

12 A. No.

13 Q. You said you got a code from security guards

14 at Neverland, correct.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And what code did you get from security

17 guards at Neverland.

18 A. The master code.

19 Q. And do you know what security guard gave

20 that to you.

21 A. No. I don’t remember.

22 Q. And what is the master code.

23 A. 1849.

24 Q. And what does it do.

25 A. It gets you into all the doors in Neverland.

26 Q. Is that every door at Neverland.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Is that every door in every room. 1201

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And would that master code get you into

3 Michael’s children’s bedroom.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. You’ve been in that bedroom, correct.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. You’ve been in both of them, right.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. You’ve been in both of his children’s

10 bedrooms many times, right.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And you’ve been in other rooms in the main

13 house, correct.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. You’ve been into what other rooms in the

16 main house.

17 A. His room, Michael’s room. Prince and

18 Paris’s room. I think that — I think those are the

19 doors — oh, and then the two doors to enter the

20 main house.

21 Q. Have you been into any other rooms in the

22 main house.

23 A. The kitchen room. The living room. The

24 kitchen. Those are the only rooms I’ve been in.

25 Q. When did you get the code that lets you into

26 every room in the house.

27 A. A little after the Miami trip.

28 Q. You had been into every room in the house 1202

1 before you went to Miami, hadn’t you.

2 A. No.

3 Q. You had not been into every room in the

4 house before you went to Miami.

5 A. Not every room.

6 Q. Didn’t you go into the main house when Chris

7 Tucker was there and Michael Jackson was absent.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And you went upstairs when Chris Tucker was

10 there and Michael Jackson was absent, didn’t you.

11 A. No.

12 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, I think we’re

13 having trouble hearing, hearing the witness. If he

14 could just talk a little louder.

15 THE COURT: Everyone seems to be hearing.

16 MR. SANGER: Sometimes you can’t.

17 THE COURT: The audience is all nodding

18 affirmatively.

19 THE JURY: (In unison) We’re not.

20 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you. We can’t hear.

21 We can’t hear.

22 MR. MESEREAU: I didn’t want to instruct the

23 witness. I didn’t think it was my — it was

24 appropriate. If the Court would, I’d appreciate it,

25 Your Honor.

26 THE COURT: You need to speak up. People

27 right there can’t hear you.

28 THE WITNESS: Okay. 1203

1 MR. MESEREAU: Because some people didn’t

2 hear, I’m going to go over a little bit of this

3 again.

4 Q. How many times were you at Neverland before

5 the Miami trip.

6 A. I don’t know exactly.

7 Q. Approximately.

8 A. I don’t know exactly.

9 Q. I’m just asking if you can estimate.

10 A. Ten.

11 Q. Ten. And of those ten trips, how many do

12 you think Michael was present at. I’m talking about

13 the trips before you went to Miami.

14 A. I don’t know. I know it was more than

15 twice.

16 Q. Okay. When did you first learn there was an

17 alarm system when you entered the hallway to go to

18 Michael Jackson’s bedroom.

19 A. First time we entered his bedroom.

20 Q. And approximately when was that, if you

21 know.

22 A. I don’t know.

23 Q. And did you see Michael Jackson do anything

24 to the alarm system —

25 A. No.

26 Q. — when you first entered his bedroom.

27 A. No.

28 Q. So it went off, didn’t it. 1204

1 A. What.

2 Q. When you first entered Michael Jackson’s

3 bedroom, the alarm system in the hallway went off,

4 right.

5 A. The bell.

6 Q. The bell that is an alarm system, right.

7 A. I didn’t think it was an alarm system.

8 Q. You didn’t think the bell that went off when

9 you entered the hallway was an alarm system.

10 A. Well, because I’m thinking, like, an alarm,

11 like.

12 Q. But you knew it was an electric bell,

13 correct.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And you knew anytime you entered that

16 hallway it went off, right.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. When you first went into the hallway, you

19 heard that bell, didn’t you.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. You never saw Michael Jackson dismantle that

22 system, did you.

23 A. No.

24 Q. In fact, every time you’ve walked into that

25 hallway to go into Michael Jackson’s bedroom, that

26 bell has rung, right.

27 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object, asked and

28 answered. 1205

1 MR. MESEREAU: I didn’t — excuse me, Your

2 Honor, I don’t think I’ve ever asked that question.

3 THE COURT: Overruled.

4 THE WITNESS: Repeat the question.

5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Sure. Every time you —

6 THE COURT: I’ll have the court reporter

7 repeat it.

8 MR. MESEREAU: I’m sorry.

9 (Record read.)

10 THE WITNESS: Yes.

11 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, during the two times

12 you claim you saw Michael Jackson touch your brother

13 in bed, that bell went off, didn’t it.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. When you walk into the hallway, Mr. Arvizo,

16 is there another alarm system.

17 A. Which hallway.

18 Q. The hallway going into Mr. Jackson’s

19 bedroom. Once you go through the hallway, the bell

20 goes off, right.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And when you try to go into Michael

23 Jackson’s bedroom upstairs, is there any other

24 alarm.

25 A. No.

26 Q. Have you ever had heard of there being

27 another alarm that goes off as you try to enter

28 Michael Jackson’s bedroom. 1206

1 A. No.

2 Q. Okay. You’re aware that if you’re in

3 Michael Jackson’s bedroom upstairs, you can hear

4 that bell.

5 A. When the doors are open.

6 Q. Pardon me.

7 A. When the doors are open.

8 Q. Well, the purpose of it is to let Michael

9 Jackson know, if he’s upstairs, if anybody’s come

10 into the hallway, isn’t it.

11 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object to that.

12 Calls for speculation on the part of this witness.

13 THE COURT: Sustained.

14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Mr. Arvizo, did Mr.

15 Jackson ever tell you that the reason that alarm

16 system goes off is to let him know if anyone is

17 trying to enter his bedroom.

18 A. No.

19 Q. So you were not aware of that.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Okay. You have heard that alarm system go

22 off when you were upstairs, haven’t you.

23 A. When the doors open.

24 Q. Yes. You’re saying when the door’s closed,

25 Michael Jackson can’t hear the alarm system.

26 A. No.

27 Q. Is that what you’re saying.

28 A. Yes. 1207

Here is a sneak preview of something that I will talk about in further detail later on in the trial: Mesereau had documentary filmmaker Larry Nimmer film Neverland for the jury because Judge Melville refused to allow them to visit Neverland during the trial. Nimmer filmed an experiment that he performed on the bedroom alarms to prove that not only did they work, but they were loud enough to be heard by anyone who was in Jackson’s room, and he included the video of this test in his documentary “The Untold Story of Neverland”. (It can be watched in its entirety here.) He waited inside of Jackson’s bedroom with his camera rolling, and had a Neverland maid walk through the hallway leading into Jackson’s bedroom to activate the alarm, and you can see the results below:

It would have been impossible for Jackson and Gavin to have not heard that alarm! Another way to prove that Star was lying about seeing Jackson abuse Gavin is to look at the row of black speakers that line the top edge of the staircase leading into the bedroom. Beginning at the 00:43 second mark, the maid walked up the stairs, but you couldn’t see her face until she reached the very top of the stairs because the speakers were in the way!

In his grand jury testimony, Star testified that he was “six steps away” from the top of the flight of steps and was able to observe Jackson abusing his brother, but that is just absurd, as the aforementioned video clearly illustrates. Here is an excerpt from his grand jury testimony on April 15th, 2004:

Next, Mesereau asked Star if he had ever discussed the current case with his family, and he denied it but admitted to discussing it with “Tom, Gordon, and Ron”. It’s very telling that the Star and his siblings were on a first name basis with the prosecutors! Star also claimed to have no recollection of who Larry Feldman was, despite the fact that the family met with him after being referred to him by William Dickerman, and before they were referred to Dr. Katz!

10 Q. Okay. Before you testified yesterday, had

11 you ever discussed what you were going to say with

12 your mom.

13 A. No.

14 Q. Before you testified yesterday, had you ever

15 discussed with Gavin what you were going to say.

16 A. No.

17 Q. Before you testified yesterday, had you ever

18 discussed with your sister Davellin what you were

19 going to say.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Have you ever discussed this case with your

22 mom.

23 A. No.

24 Q. Ever discussed this case with Gavin.

25 A. No.

26 Q. Have you ever discussed this case with

27 Davellin.

28 A. No. 1212

1 Q. Have you ever discussed this case with an

2 attorney.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Who.

5 A. Tom, Gordon and Ron.

6 Q. Excuse me.

7 A. Tom, Gordon and Ron.

8 Q. I’m sorry, we’re having trouble hearing the

9 name.

10 A. Tom, Gordon and Ron.

11 Q. Tom, Gordon and Ron.

12 Have you ever discussed this case with Larry

13 Feldman.

14 A. No, I don’t remember.

15 Q. Do you know who Larry Feldman is.

16 A. I think so.

17 Q. Who do you think he is.

18 A. I don’t know what he does.

19 Q. Okay. You never heard the name “Larry

20 Feldman” before.

21 A. No.

22 Q. Have you ever heard the name “William

23 Dickerman” before.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And have you met with Attorney William

26 Dickerman before.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. How many times do you think you’ve met with 1213

1 Attorney William Dickerman.

2 A. Once.

3 Q. And that was before you ever spoke to anyone

4 with the sheriff’s department, right.

5 A. I don’t know.

6 Q. Well, do you know whether or not William

7 Dickerman sent your entire family to Attorney Larry

8 Feldman.

9 A. No. I don’t know.

10 Q. And you don’t recall ever meeting with

11 Attorney Larry Feldman.

12 A. I do recall meeting with him, but I don’t

13 know who sent us to him.

14 Q. And how many times have you met with

15 Attorney Larry Feldman.

16 A. Probably twice.

17 Q. And do you know approximately when that was.

18 A. No.

19 Q. Was it in the last year.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Last two years.

22 A. I don’t remember.

23 Q. Okay. Was your mom at that meeting.

24 A. We never had a meeting. Well, I don’t — I

25 don’t remember.

In this excerpt, Mesereau challenges Star about the material discrepancies in his testimony to psychologist Stanley Katz, the grand jury, the sheriff’s investigators, and his direct testimony regarding the abuse he claimed to witness in Jackson’s bedroom. For example, he gave different descriptions of the clothes that Gavin and Jackson were wearing; he initially said that he saw Jackson’s hand on top of Gavin’s underwear, but then he said that he saw Jackson’s hand inside of Gavin’s underwear, and he also initially said that Jackson touched Gavin’s butt, but then said Jackson touched Gavin’s crotch!

26 Q. Okay. Now, you’ve given different

27 descriptions at different times of what you say

28 happened in Michael Jackson’s bedroom, right. 1214

1 A. I don’t understand.

2 Q. Well, you’ve been asked to describe many

3 times what happened in Michael Jackson’s bedroom at

4 Neverland, right.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. You’ve been asked by the sheriffs a couple

7 of times, right.

8 A. No.

9 Q. Well, you’ve been interviewed by the Santa

10 Barbara Sheriffs about what you claim happened in

11 Michael Jackson’s bedroom, right.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And they’ve asked you to describe what went

14 on in Michael Jackson’s bedroom, right.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And you’ve also been before a grand jury to

17 testify about what went on in Michael Jackson’s

18 bedroom, right.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. You’ve also met with a psychologist named

21 Stanley Katz, right.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And Stanley Katz works for Larry Feldman,

24 right.

25 A. I didn’t know that.

26 Q. Well, you knew that Larry Feldman sent you

27 to Stanley Katz, right.

28 A. I didn’t know. 1215

1 Q. Never heard anything about that.

2 A. No.

3 Q. Your mother never told you that.

4 A. No.

5 Q. Well, when you met with Psychologist Stanley

6 Katz, you also describe what you claim happened in

7 Michael Jackson’s bedroom, right.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And would you agree that you’ve given

10 different descriptions almost every time that you

11 have described it.

12 A. I don’t remember exactly what I said.

13 Q. Well, you’ve given different descriptions

14 about what Michael Jackson was wearing, right.

15 A. I don’t remember exactly what I said.

16 Q. You’ve given different descriptions of what

17 Gavin was supposed to be wearing, right.

18 A. I don’t remember exactly what I said.

19 Q. You’ve given different descriptions about

20 what you claim Michael Jackson did in the bedroom,

21 right.

22 A. No.

23 Q. Well, there were times you said that Michael

24 Jackson put his hand on top of your brother’s

25 underwear, right.

26 A. I don’t remember saying that.

27 Q. And there are other times you said he put

28 his hand inside his underwear, right. 1216

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And there are times you’ve said your brother

3 was wearing pajamas, right.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. There are times you said he was wearing

6 underwear, right.

7 A. I don’t remember.

8 Q. And there are times you said that Michael

9 Jackson touched his butt and not his crotch, right.

10 A. When was this.

11 Q. When you did some interviews, right.

12 A. About what.

13 Q. About what Michael Jackson, you claim, was

14 doing in his bedroom, right.

15 A. I never said he touched his butt.

16 Q. Did you ever tell anyone that when you saw

17 Michael Jackson in bed with your brother, he was

18 rubbing his butt.

19 A. No.

20 Q. Never said that at any time to anybody.

21 A. No.

22 Q. Never said it to Mr. Katz, right.

23 A. No.

24 Q. Never said it to the sheriffs, right.

25 A. No.

26 Q. And never said it to a grand jury, right.

27 A. No.

Next, Mesereau used Star’s deposition from the JC Penney lawsuit to impeach him and highlight his current lies! For example, Star claimed that he couldn’t remember if he testified during his deposition that Gavin would never steal because he wanted to be a priest, but his memory was refreshed when he was handed a copy of the transcript. Star also claimedthat he never discussed the JC Penney case with anyone before his deposition, yet is father David told Mesereau’s private investigator that Janet gave Star and Gavin a script to memorize of what she wanted them to say about what they witnessed! (You can read David’s interview here.)

Star also claimed to have no knowledge of his meeting with Larry Feldman, and whether or not he discussed the current case with him before being transferred to Stanley Katz. He also had his memory refreshed again when he was asked if he had ever claimed to model for JC Penney, which he initially denied until he was presented with a transcript from his deposition:

28 Q. Okay. You indicated yesterday that Michael 1217

1 Jackson was trying to teach you and your brother

2 cuss words, right.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And was that the truth.

5 A. He wasn’t trying to teach us. He was just

6 telling us to cuss.

7 Q. Did you ever use cuss words before you met

8 Michael Jackson.

9 A. Not really.

10 Q. Did you ever know what those cuss words even

11 meant.

12 A. No.

13 Q. Okay. When you were — let me strike that.

14 Let me rephrase.

15 You had your deposition taken in the J.C.

16 Penney case on December 15th, the year 2000, right.

17 A. I don’t remember the dates.

18 Q. Would it refresh your memory if I just show

19 you the deposition date.

20 A. Sure.

21 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

22 THE COURT: Yes.

23 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you.

24 THE WITNESS: Okay.

25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Mr. Arvizo, have you had a

26 chance to look at that page.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. And it says, “December 15th, 2000,” right. 1218

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Okay. Where were you living during

3 December 15th, 2000.

4 A. I was living at the Soto address.

5 Q. Well, in that deposition, you said you were

6 living on Raymer Street; do you remember.

7 A. Yes. No, I don’t remember the deposition.

8 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

9 show you that part of your deposition.

10 A. Sure.

11 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

12 THE COURT: Yes.

13 THE WITNESS: Okay.

14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

15 look at that page of your deposition of the J.C.

16 Penney case.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And does it refresh your recollection that

19 you said you were living on Raymer Street at that

20 point.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Now, where is Raymer Street.

23 A. It’s in El Monte.

24 Q. Okay. Is that where your grandparents live.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Okay. And when you answered these questions

27 in the J.C. Penney case under oath, you were ten

28 years old, right. 1219

1 A. I think so.

2 Q. Okay. In that deposition, you were asked

3 whether you had discussed the facts of the J.C.

4 Penney case with anyone before you were deposed,

5 right.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Do you remember that. And you said you had

8 not discussed the facts —

9 A. Actually, I don’t remember that question.

10 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

11 show you that page.

12 A. It’s okay.

13 Q. Huh.

14 A. It’s okay.

15 Q. What do you mean, it’s —

16 A. Oh, okay.

17 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

18 THE COURT: Yes.

19 THE WITNESS: Where’s the question.

20 MR. MESEREAU: Right here.

21 THE WITNESS: Okay.

22 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

23 look at that page in your deposition in the J.C.

24 Penney case.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Does it refresh your recollection that you

27 said you had not discussed the facts of that case

28 with your mother or anybody else. 1220

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And was that true.

3 A. What.

4 Q. Was it true that before you answered

5 questions under oath in the J.C. Penney case that

6 you had never discussed the facts of that case with

7 anyone.

8 A. After the —

9 Q. Between the time the events happened, or

10 that you claim happened in the parking lot at J.C.

11 Penney, and the time you answered questions under

12 oath, you had not discussed the facts with anybody,

13 right.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Okay. You hadn’t discussed the facts with

16 your mother, right.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Hadn’t discussed them with Gavin, right.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Hadn’t discussed them with Davellin, right.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And you hadn’t discussed them with your

23 father David, right.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Now, you indicated to the jury that you’ve

26 done some training as a comedian; is that right.

27 A. It wasn’t really actual training. We just

28 did it for fun. 1221

1 Q. Pardon me.

2 A. It wasn’t actually training. We just did it

3 for fun.

4 Q. Okay. But did you take a class.

5 A. No.

6 Q. Did you take an acting class.

7 A. No.

8 Q. Have you ever modeled.

9 A. That was for our — our dance group that we

10 used to be in.

11 Q. Where did you model.

12 A. I don’t remember.

13 Q. Well, you claim you have modeled at J.C.

14 Penney’s, right.

15 A. I don’t remember the store.

16 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

17 you your deposition in the J.C. Penney case.

18 A. Sure.

19 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

20 THE COURT: Yes.

21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

22 look at that page.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Does it refresh your recollection that you

25 claim you were modeling at J.C. Penney.

26 A. Not really.

27 Q. Were you modeling at J.C. Penney.

28 A. I think so. 1222

1 Q. Pardon me.

2 A. I think so.

3 Q. You think so.

4 A. Yeah. Since it says it on the — there.

5 Q. Well, please tell the jury what the truth

6 is. Were you really modeling at J.C. Penney.

7 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object to that

8 question as argumentative.

9 THE COURT: Sustained.

10 The jury is admonished to disregard Mr.

11 Mesereau’s remark.

12 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Were you modeling at J.C.

13 Penney on that day.

14 A. What day.

15 Q. The day the events happened in the parking

16 lot.

17 A. No. That was — that was way before then.

18 Q. But you testified under oath that you were

19 there to model, didn’t you.

20 A. No. I was there — I was there to model

21 about — years ago. We were just waiting for our

22 mom to come out of her job interview.

23 Q. Correct me if I’m wrong, when you were

24 testifying under oath in a deposition, you said

25 under oath that you were there to model that day,

26 didn’t you.

27 A. Not that day. We were there before to

28 model. Not at that J.C. Penney’s. 1223

1 Q. Did you model before.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. When was that.

4 A. It was a long time ago when we were little.

5 It was a long time ago when we were little.

6 Q. Now, you testified under oath that your

7 brother Gavin took some clothes that weren’t paid

8 for into the parking lot, right.

9 A. I don’t remember.

10 Q. You don’t remember saying that.

11 A. No. It was long ago.

12 Q. Has anyone told you to give a response like

13 that to my questions.

14 A. No.

15 Q. Has anyone told you to say “I don’t

16 remember” when you respond to my questions.

17 A. If I don’t remember, I don’t remember.

18 Q. Okay. Okay. Do you remember testifying

19 that your brother went into the parking lot with

20 clothes that weren’t paid for to trick your father

21 into buying them.

22 A. I don’t remember.

23 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

24 you your testimony.

25 A. Yes.

26 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

27 THE COURT: Yes.

28 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to 1224

1 look at that page.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

4 you said under oath in the deposition.

5 A. A little bit.

6 Q. Well, you said your brother wanted to trick

7 your dad into buying clothes, right.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And you said that that’s why he went into

10 the mall with the unpaid clothes, right.

11 A. He went into the mall.

12 Q. Into the parking lot in the mall.

13 A. Oh.

14 Q. Let me restate it.

15 You testified under oath that your brother

16 left J.C. Penney’s with clothes that weren’t paid

17 for because he was trying to trick your dad into

18 buying them, right.

19 A. Yes, but the paragraph wasn’t over.

20 Q. Okay. What else did you say about that.

21 A. Um — could I reread it.

22 Q. Sure.

23 May I return, Your Honor.

24 THE COURT: Yes.

25 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

26 Okay.

27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

28 look at the page again. 1225

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And does it refresh your recollection about

3 what you testified to that day.

4 A. A little bit.

5 Q. Okay. How has it refreshed your

6 recollection.

7 A. It said right there that — that my dad took

8 them and put them back.

9 Q. Okay. Now, you said that Gavin wouldn’t

10 steal because he wants to be a priest, right.

11 A. I don’t remember saying that.

12 Q. You said he wants to be a priest and a

13 comedian, right.

14 A. I don’t remember saying that.

15 Q. Well, did anyone ask you to say that, if you

16 recall.

17 A. No.

18 Q. Before you went into that deposition to

19 testify under oath, did anyone tell you if you’re

20 asked if Gavin stole, say, “No, he wants to be a

21 comedian and a priest”.

22 A. I don’t remember nothing in that case.

23 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

24 show you another page.

25 A. Yes.

26 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

27 THE COURT: Yes.

28 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to 1226

1 look at that page.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

4 you said.

5 A. A little bit, yes.

6 Q. And didn’t you say that Gavin wants to be a

7 priest and a comedian when he grows up.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And you said that he wouldn’t steal, right.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Okay. But no one told you to say that

12 before the deposition, right.

13 A. Hmm, what was it. Say it again.

14 Q. Yeah. Nobody told you to make that

15 statement before you went into that deposition and

16 testified, right.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Now, you testified under oath that security

19 guards from J.C. Penney approached your mother in

20 the parking lot and said, “We’re going to fuck you

21 up,” and called your dad “a fucking asshole,” right.

22 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

23 object to the question as a violation of the Court’s

24 ruling.

25 THE COURT: Sustained.

26 THE WITNESS: I don’t remember the exact

27 words.

28 THE COURT: Just a minute. You don’t have to 1227

1 answer that question.

2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: But you’re telling the

3 jury that before you met Michael Jackson, you had

4 never used the “F” word, right.

5 A. I spelled it out for them.

6 Q. Spelled it out for you.

7 A. The people that were interviewing us or —

8 I didn’t say it.

9 Q. Okay. And in your personal life as a young

10 boy, you had never used that word once, right.

11 A. No.

12 Q. The first time you heard it was in the J.C.

13 Penney parking lot, right.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Now, you testified that your mother had been

16 beaten up in the parking lot, right.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. You said that her private parts had been

19 touched.

20 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

21 object. Same objection.

22 THE COURT: Sustained.

Mesereau continued to interrogate Star about his deposition during the JC Penney case, and he focused on the numerous inconsistencies, including getting Star to admit that he lied in his deposition when he said that his father had never hit him, and when he said that his parents never fought each other:

 

23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: When you went to Stanley

24 Katz, you knew he was a psychologist, right.

25 A. No.

26 Q. Did you know he was a therapist.

27 A. Not really.

28 Q. Had you been to a therapist ever before. 1228

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. When was that.

3 A. During the J.C. Penney case.

4 Q. Okay. Did you go with your mom.

5 A. I don’t remember.

6 Q. Okay. Well, your whole family went to a

7 therapist in that case, right.

8 A. I don’t remember.

9 Q. Don’t remember at all.

10 A. No.

11 Q. Okay.

12 MR. MESEREAU: May we approach, Your Honor.

13 THE COURT: No.

14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: In the J.C. Penney case,

15 you testified to what these guards were doing to

16 your mother, right.

17 A. Yes.

18 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

19 object. Same objection.

20 THE COURT: Sustained.

21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And that was the first

22 time you ever testified, right.

23 A. When.

24 Q. In the J.C. Penney deposition.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. And nobody told you what to say before it,

27 right.

28 A. Yes. 1229

1 Q. Never discussed it with your mom before you

2 went into the deposition, right.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Just like you’ve never discussed the facts

5 of this case with your mom at any time, right.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Okay. When was the first time that you ever

8 discussed what you claim Mr. Jackson had done to

9 you.

10 A. What.

11 Q. When is the first time you ever discussed

12 with anybody what you say Mr. Jackson did to you.

13 A. I think it was with Dr. Katz.

14 THE COURT: Excuse me.

15 If you can’t hear him, I’d like to have hand

16 signs. There’s no way I can know. And that way I

17 can just have him speak up. The people in the

18 audience are hearing him fine. But when he drops

19 off, I can’t tell whether you’re hearing him or not.

20 Sorry, Counsel. Go ahead.

21 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.

22 Q. When is the first time you ever discussed

23 what you claim Mr. Jackson did to you.

24 A. I think it was with Dr. Katz.

25 Q. Was that before you ever discussed any of

26 this with any police officer.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. And you discussed what you claim Mr. Jackson 1230

1 did to you with Attorney Larry Feldman, right.

2 A. I don’t remember.

3 Q. Do you remember one way or the other.

4 A. I didn’t understand that question.

5 Q. Sure. Are you saying you don’t remember

6 ever discussing this case with Attorney Larry

7 Feldman.

8 A. No, I don’t remember.

9 Q. Okay. But you do remember meeting with

10 Larry Feldman, right.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And your mom was there, right.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Gavin was there, right.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Do you remember saying in the J.C. Penney

17 deposition that your mom and dad never fight.

18 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

19 object. Same objection.

20 THE COURT: Overruled.

21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember saying

22 that.

23 A. Not really.

24 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

25 you a page from that deposition.

26 A. Yes.

27 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

28 THE COURT: Yes. 1231

1 MR. MESEREAU: Oops.

2 THE WITNESS: That’s okay.

3 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

4 look at that page from the deposition.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

7 you said.

8 A. A little bit.

9 Q. And didn’t you say under oath that your

10 mother and dad never fight.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Was that true.

13 A. Hmm, I really don’t — sometimes.

14 Q. I’m sorry, I didn’t understand your answer.

15 When you told — excuse me. Let me rephrase.

16 When you stated under oath in the J.C.

17 Penney deposition in the year 2000 that your mom and

18 dad never fight, were you telling the truth.

19 A. No.

20 Q. Did someone tell you to lie in that

21 deposition.

22 A. I don’t remember.

23 Q. You don’t remember at all.

24 A. No. It happened a long time ago.

25 Q. You also said in that deposition under oath

26 that your dad never hit you; do you remember that.

27 A. Not really.

28 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show 1232

1 you that page.

2 A. Sure.

3 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

4 THE COURT: Yes.

5 THE WITNESS: Okay.

6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

7 look at that page of your deposition.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And does it refresh your recollection about

10 what you said that day.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. You were asked if your dad had ever hit you,

13 and you said, “Never,” right.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Was that the truth.

16 A. No.

17 Q. Did someone ever tell you to lie about that

18 under oath in your deposition in the J.C. Penney

19 case.

20 A. I really don’t remember.

21 Q. Don’t remember at all.

22 A. No. I don’t remember nothing from there.

In this excerpt, Star denies to Mesereau that he has ever spoken about the JC Penney lawsuit to anyone in his family, and he also admits to using profanities prior to allegedly hearing them from Jackson, which contradicts Sneddon’s claim that Star never cursed prior to meeting Jackson:

2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have your — excuse me.

3 Has — did your father ever coach you about what to

4 say in the J.C. Penney deposition.

5 A. No.

6 Q. Did your mother ever coach you about what to

7 say in the J.C. Penney deposition.

8 A. No.

9 Q. Please tell the jury why you lied under

10 oath.

11 A. I don’t remember. It was, like, five years

12 ago. I don’t remember nothing.

13 Q. Have you discussed the J.C. Penney

14 deposition with any of the prosecutors.

15 A. No.

16 Q. Have you discussed the J.C. Penney

17 deposition with your mom.

18 A. No.

19 Q. Have you discussed the J.C. Penney

20 deposition with your dad.

21 A. No.

22 Q. Have you ever discussed the J.C. Penney

23 deposition with Gavin.

24 A. No.

25 Q. Have you ever discussed the J.C. Penney

26 deposition with Davellin.

27 A. No.

28 Q. Have you ever discussed the J.C. Penney 1234

1 deposition with any attorney.

2 A. No.

3 Q. You had an attorney representing you at the

4 J.C. Penney deposition, right.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Who was that.

7 A. I don’t remember.

8 Q. Have you ever discussed this case with your

9 grandmother.

10 A. No.

11 Q. Have you ever discussed it with your

12 grandfather.

13 A. No.

14 Q. Have you ever discussed the J.C. Penney

15 lawsuit with your grandmother.

16 A. No.

17 Q. And have you ever discussed the J.C. Penney

18 lawsuit with your grandfather.

19 A. No.

20 Q. Okay. Was Michael Jackson the first person

21 you ever heard use a cuss word.

22 A. No.

23 Q. Who was, if you remember.

24 A. It was a kid at school.

25 Q. That’s the first time you ever heard those

26 words.

27 A. I don’t remember.

28 Q. But you’ve never used them yourself, right. 1235

1 A. Yes, I’ve used them.

2 Q. Do you use them now.

3 A. No.

4 Q. Never use them.

5 A. What do you mean.

6 Q. Well, in your personal life right now, do

7 you ever use the “F” word.

8 A. No.

9 Q. Do you ever use the “B” word.

10 A. No.

Just a reminder to everyone, in their interview with Mesereau’s investigator, both Simone and Rijo Jackson stated that Star and Gavin called Simone a “fu**ing b**ch” when she refused to strip naked for them by the pool, and they both cursed Jackson after he left the movie theater one day, so Star’s claim that he “couldn’t remember” where he first heard those curse words is totally absurd!

Star’s cross examination will continue in the next post in this series: Open this link to read it https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2012/06/04/march-8th-2005-trial-analysis-star-arvizo-cross-examination-part-2-of-3/