JOHN BRANCA and RANDY JACKSON. Two advisors, two outcomes for Michael Jackson’s finances
The eve of Michael Jackson’s birthday is not the best moment for an article like this, but I still decided to post it before the birthday as after it would be even worse – let the time and our attention afterwards be spent on something better than this subject.
The information I am presenting here will start with a comment I made in reply to a screenshot taken by Shelly from the 2007 Prescient lawsuit against MJ http://i.imgur.com/JAU1Y.png :
Forget about the lawsuit itself for a moment – all we need from it now is the text which is retyped here:
- “Since inception of Sony/ATV, which was originally valued at $930,000,000, the partners have agreed to acquire about $400,000,000 of additional music catalogs. The MJ Trust has borrowed a total of $272,500,000 to support the purchase of additional catalogs at Sony/ATV, and to support other various working capital needs. Sony has provided the lenders to MJ Trust a credit enhancement (for which Sony receives additional payment of $9,000,000 annually).”
1. ASSUMPTION
This quote made me come to an assumption which is now in the comments section and will be repeated here because this is where this post started from:
The above confirms what I thought all along. So when the Sony/ATV joint venture was formed Sony and Michael agreed they would supplement their catalog with additional songs and buy more and more. From what we read about it the idea was that the money for those purchases would be generated by the joint catalog itself – they would acquire more songs from the profits the catalog made, not needing any more money input. So when Michael later bought Eminem’s songs it was within their initial plans.
The idea was not bad as it meant to turn Michael into a major musical publishing rights tycoon (with Sony being the other half) and it would have worked perfectly well in case Michael’s success had continued and no financial disasters had taken place. But they did take place – in the form of the 2003 case, the trial and many other projects which failed due to the extremely negative media which nipped each of his projects in the bud.
While Michael was fighting the unjustice Sony evidently went on adding new songs to the catalog and paying their share. I’ve read that they were even paying Michael’s share of the expenses, most probably out of the profit Michael was to receive from his 50% in the joint venture. This must have created constant tension between the partners, because surely Michael would have preferred to have cash instead of having to invest it into more songs. What looked like a good idea in 1995 turned into a big financial burden for him later.
The joint venture was evidently John Branca’s idea. He suggested it instead of selling Michael’s Beatles catalog which was advised by other Michael’s advisors in 1993 when Michael had to pay damages to Marcel Avram for canceling the Dangerous tour and huge costs on litigation with the Chandlers. It was then that the crisis started and Michael first faced the need to sell his Beatles catalog.
Now he could have got out of this joint venture again and by the same method too – by selling his share and at a higher price this time, however he still preferred to fight the circumstances.
I don’t remember the details now but at a certain point things became so bad that Michael was in a danger of losing to some creditors half of his share in the joint venture (or 25%), but his partner Sony helped him to avoid it. They evidently supplied him with some financing in return for the right to be the first to buy those 25% in case Michael had to sell it.
As a result Michael kept his 50% but was still involved in tremendous loans he had to take most of which were spent to fulfill his commitments under the joint venture project (and not on his “lavish style” as the media likes to portray it).
All of the above explains very well Michael’s feelings in respect of Sony – it was like sharing a home with someone you no longer love and even fight, but cannot part with due to the common property you share.
However life proved that Sony as a partner was not that bad after all – they had the right to acquire the 25% share of Michael’s catalog but never used it as Michael still keeps his half in the project.
If my understanding of the situation is correct, then the current merger of Sony/ATV with EMI and creation of a new giant holding music publishing rights this way is very much in line with the original idea Michael liked and went for. He could have sold the catalog long ago, but he still preferred to keep and expand it further – even at a tremendous financial cost and even sacrifice for himself.
If the new project is successful it will turn Michael’s children into tycoons of music publishing rights, but for it to be successful it will again require some money to service Michael’s commitments arising from it. That merger must have required a lot of money already, and this is where some of those millions from Michael’s Estate must have gone.
In short it isn’t ‘embezzlement’ – it is investment of the money, and probably wise investment too because it is meant to generate more money than the sums already spent on it. From the point of view of Michael’s siblings it is unwise of course because 1) it doesn’t bring immediate profit 2) leaves some of MJ’s debts still unpaid 3) will prove its worth in a somewhat distant future.
But from the point of view of Michael’s legacy and the future of Michael’s children the idea is good. I personally would very much like to see Michael’s children to benefit from other people’s songs. Somehow it feels like just the right outcome after all that their father had to endure.
This is my understanding of the situation, though of course the matter should be studied and studied thoroughly.
This was the assumption I made in the comments and now that I studied the matter further let me present to you the absolute minimum from the mountain of information collected.
2. A BIT OF HISTORY
Since everything revolves around the Sony/ATV famous catalog we need to refresh some basic facts about the way it was started. With a few slight exceptions Wiki paints a pretty accurate picture of how it began:
Sony/ATV Music Publishing is a music publishing company co-owned by the Estate of Michael Jackson and Sony Corporation.[1]In December 1995, ATV Music Publishing merged with Sony Music Publishing, a division of Sony Corporation, to become Sony/ATV Music Publishing.
Sony/ATV Music Publishing Type Limited liability company Industry Music Entertainment Founder(s) Lew Grade Headquarters New York, United States Key people Michael Jackson Services publishing Revenue 1.9 billion (2011) Owner(s) The Estate of Michael Jackson(50%)
Sony (50%)Website http://www.sonyatv.com Jackson was first informed that the ATV catalog was up for sale in Sept. 1984 by his attorney John Branca, who had put together Jackson’s earlier catalog acquisitions. Warned of the competition he would face in buying such popular songs, Jackson remained resolute in his decision to purchase them.[2][4]
Branca approached McCartney’s attorney to query whether the Beatle was planning to bid. The attorney stated he wasn’t; it was “too pricey”.[2][3] According to Bert Reuter, who negotiated the sale of ATV Music for Holmes à Court, “We had given Paul McCartney first right of refusal but Paul didn’t want it at that time.”[16] Lennon’s widow, Yoko Ono had been contacted as well but also did not enter bidding.[3]
McCartney had previously attempted to purchase the catalog alongside Ono in 1981.[2] He was offered the catalog for £20 million ($40 million USD) and proposed the pair would each pay £10 million.[3][5] Ono refused as she thought it was too high a price. McCartney spoke about the offer at a press conference in April, 1990, explaining that Ono “actually said ‘I think we can get it for 5.’ So I said, ‘Well ok, you know, let’s see what we can do.’ And we couldn’t.”[5] Not wanting buy the songs himself and potentially be seen as being “grabby” for “owning John Lennon’s bit of the songs”, McCartney let the offer fall through.[3][5]
The competitors in the 1984 sale of ATV Music included Charles Koppelman and Marty Bandier’s New York-based The Entertainment Co., Virgin Records, New York real estate tycoon Samuel J. LeFrak, and financier Charles Knapp.
The two sides began drafting contracts in Jan. 1985 and follow-through meetings began on Mar. 16. Jackson’s team described the negotiations as frustrating, with frequent shifts of position by the other side. One Holmes à Court’s rep described the negotiations as a “game of poker.” Jackson’s team thought they had reached a deal several times but new bidders would enter the picture or they would encounter new areas of debate. The prospective deal went through eight drafts. In May 1985, Jackson’s team walked away from negotiations after having spent hundreds of hours and over $1 million.
In June 1985, they learned Koppelman/Bandier had made a tentative agreement with Holmes à Court to buy the catalog for $50 million.[4] But in early Aug., Holmes à Court contacted Jackson and talks resumed. Jackson only raised his bid to $47.5 million but he had the advantage of being able to close the deal faster, having completed due diligence of ATV Music prior to any formal agreement.[4] He also agreed visit Australia as a guest of Holmes à Court and appear on the Channel Seven Perth Telethon.[4][16] Holmes à Court included some more assets and agreed to established a scholarship in Jackson’s name at a U.S. university.[4] Branca closed the deal and purchased ATV Music on Jackson’s behalf for $47.5 million on Aug. 10. 1985.[2][4]
Ono was pleased that Jackson had acquired Northern Songs and called it a “blessing”.[2] Speaking in November, 1990, Ono stated, “Businessmen who aren’t artists themselves wouldn’t have the consideration Michael has. He loves the songs. He’s very caring.”[2] She added that if she and McCartney were to own the songs, there would certainly be arguments. Ono explained that neither she or McCartney needed that. “If Paul got the songs, people would have said, ‘Paul finally got John’. And if I got them, they’d say, ‘Oh, the dragon lady strikes again'”.[2]contract provision to visit Perth, Western Australia and appear on the telethon, where he spoke briefly and met with two children.[4][16]
In 1995 the Japanese corporation offered Jackson $90 million for 50% of ATV Music Publishing.[19][20] [other sources name $100mln. and more]
Jackson gladly accepted; [I am not sure of it] he had essentially acquired half ownership of the Beatles’ songs for a large profit.[19] Jackson’s own songs were not included in the deal.[18] Having been merged, the company was renamed Sony/ATV Music Publishing and became the second largest music publisher in the world.[19] [according to other sources it was third or forth world publisher].
Michael P. Schulhof, President and CEO of Sony, welcomed the merger and praised Jackson for his efforts in the venture. “Michael Jackson is not only the most successful entertainer in history; he is also an astute businessman. Michael understands the importance of copyrights and the role they play in the introduction to new technologies.”[18] He added that Jackson recognises Sony’s “leadership in developing and realizing new technologies that serve to expand the creative horizon of artists such as himself”.[18] Administrative expertise was provided by Sony, who installed Paul Russell as chairman. Jackson was a company director and attended board meetings regularly.[19] As each party in the arrangement held the power of veto, both sides would have to agree on a decision before it could be made. If neither party agreed on a decisions, they would not be implemented.[19]
Michael Jackson was the first in everything he did, so it doesn’t surprise us that according to his own words he wanted to establish the largest music publishing company in the world:
- Merging of ATV with Sony establishes our commitment to create one of the largest music publishing ventures in the world. We have been working on this for over a year and, now, with the two of us together, the sky is our only limit. (Michael Jackson, 1995)
Immediately after the merger Sony/ATV’s mentioned its two main competitors:
- “Sony said its new catalog will be the 3d biggest in music publishing. The largest is Time Warner Inc’s Warner – Chappell, followed by EMI Music Publishing” – The Jet, November 1995.
So let us make a mental note that in 1995 the Sony/ATV catalog was the third biggest in music publishing business. Its main competitors were Warner Chappell and EMI Music Publishing.
Today we can very well state that both of them have given up their rights – partially or fully – to Sony/ATV.
3. THE DEAL WITH EMI MAKES SONY/ATV A NEW GIANT
Recently Warner Chappell lost its rights to administer Michael Jackson’s own songs which were passed over to Sony/ATV. In a second move a Sony-led group of investors bought the full music catalog from the British EMI Music Publishing, and this now makes Sony/ATV the biggest music publishing business the world over.
Isn’t it interesting to see how it falls in line with the words of Michael Jackson who said that the sky was the only limit to their plans?
It is also interesting that the EMI acquisition was made by the Sony-led investors despite competition from the same Warner Music Group who was and still is Sony’s main competitor. Warner fought for the right to obtain another arm of the EMI business – the recorded music (not publishing rights) but lost in a competition with Universal who got the deal.
In the circumstances of so fierce a competition and the stakes being so high (billions of dollars) one cannot help thinking that it isn’t only Michael Jackson’s haters who work against Michael’s fans, but most probably the Sony/ATV competitors in the first place too. Same as Michael’s detractors, they don’t want Michael’s joint venture with Sony to succeed and hold the key role in the music publishing business.
Knowing that Michael has half of Sony/ATV I think that it would be extremely unwise on the part of Michael’s fans to fight the only real company which is operating in the interests of Michael and his children (and is doing it in a superb way).
I am not saying that those who are in a constant battle with Sony/ATV are necessarily working for its competitors, but when Michael’s fans unwittingly or deliberately undermine Sony/ATV they should at least realize that they are playing into the hands of Michael’s competitors – no more, no less.
And Sony/ATV’s competitors did fight the deal with EMI tooth and nail. The price of the deal was determined at an auction and ranged from $2,1 billion from a competitor to $2,2 billion from Sony. The matter was more or less decided in November last year:
Citi to sell EMI for $4.1B to Universal, Sony
By CLAIRE ATKINSON
November 11, 2011
Citigroup has reached a deal to split up and sell iconic UK record company EMI to Vivendi’s Universal Music Group and a consortium of investors lead by Sony Corp.
Citi will sell EMI’s recorded music arm to Universal for $1.9 billion, and the publishing business to Sony group for around $2.2 billion.
The Sony consortium now includes Hollywood heavyweight David Geffen, who is still negotiating his investment in the bid, along with private-equity firm Blackstone and Abu Dhabi-owned investment fund Mubadala, sources said.
Both bids ended up higher than analysts and rival suitors had expected heading into the auction for EMI, home to acts such as ColdPlay, Katy Perry and The Beatles.
Len Blavatnik’s Warner Music Group bid was believed to have bid in the region of $1.5 billion for the recorded music unit, while KKR-backed BMG Rights were offering $2.1 billion for publishing.
The deal will cement Universal’s position as the largest music company in the world, though it will likely have to divest assets outside of the US.
EMI’s share of the recorded market in France and Germany is in the region of 75 percent, while in the UK it is between 40 and 45 percent. In the U.S, EMI’s market share is less than 10 percent.
For the new acquisition not to go counter the anti-trust legislation (which fights monopolies and ensures competition) Sony had to approach the European Union in March 2012 as well as the US regulators. To the European Union they had to make a concession by selling its rights to some of its other labels.
In April Sony got the approval from the European Union to purchase EMI’s music publishing unit, but only after it agreed to sell its rights to the chart hits by Robbie Williams and Ozzy Osbourne, as well as its rights to the Sony/ATV portfolio which was agreed to be kept separate in the deal.
This looks like a very interesting point to me (if I understood it right) because it shows that the Sony/ATV joint venture is not the same entity as Sony proper and is separate from it.
However if Sony sold its right to Sony/ATV doesn’t it mean that Sony/ATV had to buy it? And at an additional cost to the money paid to be part of the EMI deal? If this supposition is correct than the amounts paid should have been quite substantial to say the very least. And this at the time when the debt of $300 mln. to the Barclays’ bank still remains unpaid?
If my understanding of the situation is correct the above means that the Michael Jackson Estate is making further investments even though it is still indebted to the Barclays’ bank. Whether the risk is wise or not is a matter for dispute of course, but something tells me that had Michael been alive he would have readily gone for it. He was a very far-sighted businessman and was always looking into the day after tomorrow instead of a mere today.
The very least this situation tells us is that all those millions generated by the Estate are probably going in the direction of this deal. And of course also into financing the great Cirque du Soleil worldwide shows which is the biggest project undertaken by the Estate now.
The deal with EMI faced opposition not only from some Michael Jackson’s fans who oppose every Sony’s step since the time Tommy Mottola was fired ten years ago, but from Warner Music Group as well, and also Impala, an independent group of record labels.
Sony-Led Group Wins EU Approval To Buy EMI Unit
Apr 19, 2012
…. Sony Corp.-led group won European Union approval for its $2.2 billion purchase of EMI Group’s music publishing unit after it agreed to sell rights to chart hits by Robbie Williams and Ozzy Osbourne.
The European Commission approved the deal after the Sony group offered to sell the global rights to EMI’s Virgin catalogs and Sony/ATV Music Publishing’s Famous U.K. portfolio, the regulator said in an e-mailed statement.
The deal will give the Sony group control of EMI’s publishing rights to classics such as “New York, New York” and “Stand By Your Man,” adding to a portfolio of songs by Elvis Presley, the Beatles and Bob Dylan. Sony/ATV, the joint venture formed in 1995 that is co-owned by Sony Corp. (6758) and Michael Jackson’s estate, will oversee the new business.
The Sony group’s offer to sell the song catalogs eliminated antitrust concerns about the company’s control over online rights for chart hits by British and American artists, the EU said.
Dylan Jones, a spokesman for EMI, and Warner Music Group, an unsuccessful bidder for EMI, both declined to comment. Impala, a Brussels-based group of independent record labels that opposed the deal, is convinced that “the impact of this merger on the livelihood of authors has been underestimated, while the ability of the remedies to secure future competition has been overestimated,” Helen Smith, the group’s executive chair, said in an e-mail.
You can practically feel the fear of the author of the next article who says that the deal will give Sony/ATV too much control and even dominance as it will become the biggest music publishing business the world over – the news which I personally welcome very much.
It also mentions that in order to make the deal Sony had to sell the famous UK catalog to the Sony/ATV venture.
So if I understood it correctly while some bloggers are constantly telling us that Sony/ATV will sell Michael’s share to Sony, exactly the opposite scenario is taking place now – Sony sold its rights to the Sony/ATV joint venture and it seems to be a much more independent entity now than it used to be before:
Thursday April 19th, 2012 12:48
The European Commission will today green light the bid led by Sony to buy the EMI music publishing business, a takeover which will give Sony/ATV control of the EMI song catalogues, making for the biggest music publishing business in the world.
As previously reported, the Sony-led consortium offered EC competition regulators a number of concessions during the initial stage of the European investigation into the proposed deal, which some say will give Sony/ATV/EMI way too muchdominance in the publishing sector, digital licensing and the collecting society system. And seemingly those concessions were enough to overcome opposition and concerns across Europe.
According to the Financial Times, the biggest concern for EC regulators was the dominance Sony/ATV/EMI would have over the Anglo-American catalogue in the UK market. The proposed sale of the Virgin-branded songs catalogue, plus the Famous UK catalogue and some key songs by prominent Anglo-American artists, was designed to specifically deal with those concerns. Seemingly some extra US-owned rights were also thrown in to further placate officials.
Although the Sony/ATV deal still needs approval in the US, and is also being investigated in Australia and Brazil, having secured approval in Europe with just a one-stage investigation is a considerable achievement, not least because it’s European regulators who are often hardest to please.
The entertainment conglom does not own Sony/ATV outright – the Michael Jackson estate owns the other half – meaning the Sony recording and publishing businesses have never been as closely aligned as at the other major music firms.
Meanwhile Sony and the Jackson estate will each be only minority shareholders in EMI Publishing, meaning the new acquisition will remain an autonomous entity, albeit controlled and managed by Sony/ATV day to day. This slightly complicated structure seemingly enabled Sony to persuade EC regulators to be less tough than they were with Universal in 2006 when it bought the original BMG publishing company.
Needless to say, pan-European indie label trade body IMPALA expressed disappointment at last night’s reports that an EC all clear for the Sony transaction was incoming. http://www.thecmuwebsite.com/article/ec-to-green-light-sonys-emi-deal-as-marty-moves-to-allay-staff-fears/
In June 2012 the deal was finalized. Now the joint venture between the Michael Jackson estate and Sony will control over 2 million songs. If any MJ’s fans tell me that this is unwelcome news I will call these people hypocrites.
Sony purchases EMI publishing rights
June 30, 2012
Sony Corp. and the Michael Jackson estate said Friday they had purchased Britain’s EMI Music Publishing for $2.2 billion from Citigroup, creating the world’s largest music copyrights company with a catalog that includes hits from Motown, The Beatles, Jay-Z and Norah Jones.
Publishing has remained a steady business over the years, despite the onslaught of the Internet and the ongoing decline of compact disc sales, because of its diverse revenue sources. And by acquiring EMI, Sony/ATV, a 50-50 joint venture between Sony and the Michael Jackson estate, will control just over 2 million copyrighted songs. The new entity is estimated to capture nearly a third of publishing revenue in the world.
The Associated Press http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/06/30/2200109/sony-purchases-emi-publishing.html
The Associated press even calls the EMI catalog managed by Sony/ATV the world leader now.
Associated Press – Fri, Jun 29, 2012
WORLD LEADER: Sony’s partnership with the Michael Jackson estate, Sony/ATV, will manage the EMI catalog, which has songs from Kanye West, Rihanna and Norah Jones. The entity’s No. 1 market share is about 31 percent, compared to 22 percent for Universal Music Publishing Group.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/news-summary-sony-buys-emi-publishing-2-2b-214052409–finance.html
Others call the new consortium a giant force. This article explains in detail the way it will be run:
June 29, 2012, 9:08 AM
Sony Closes Its Acquisition of EMI Music Publishing
By BEN SISARIOAn investor group led by Sony closed its $2.2 billion acquisition of EMI Music Publishing on Friday, creating a giant force in music publishing, the unglamorous but lucrative side of the music business that deals with songwriting rights.
The deal will give Sony control over a catalog of more than two million songs, and a global market share of about 31 percent, nine points above that of Universal, its closest competitor, according to an estimate by the trade publication Music and Copyright.
Sony’s new catalog will include the 750,000 tracks — including 251 by the Beatles — that are controlled by Sony/ATV, the company’s joint venture with the estate of Michael Jackson. It will also include 1.3 million from EMI, with Motown hits, chestnuts like “Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas” and songs by contemporary stars like Norah Jones, Kanye West and Amy Winehouse.
The deal just completed between Sony and EMI Publishing reunites Mr. Bandier, the chairman of Sony’s current publishing arm, Sony/ATV, with the EMI catalog, which he ran until 2007.
The financial structure of the deal is complex, and while Sony will administer the EMI catalog through Sony/ATV, its deal with Jackson requires that EMI Publishing remain a separate company. Sony and the Jackson estate will have a 38 percent stake. The other investors are the sovereign wealth fund Mubadala of Abu Dhabi, Jynwel Capital of Hong Kong, Blackstone’s GSO Capital Partners and the Hollywood mogul David Geffen.
The royalties and licensing fees from publishing rights are often seen as the most stable side of the music business, offsetting the more tumultuous fortunes of record companies.
“Music publishing, along with the rest of our entertainment companies, has been a bright spot in our business portfolio, and we expect that trend to continue with this important acquisition,” Kazuo Hirai, Sony’s president and chief executive, said in a statement.
Sony’s deal was one of two reached by Citigroup in November, which took possession of EMI in early 2011 after the private equity firm Terra Firma defaulted on its debt.
In the parallel sale of EMI’s recorded-music division — which includes albums by the Beatles, the Beach Boys and hundreds of other acts — the Universal Music Group bid $1.9 billion. That deal is still under review in Europe and the United States.
Sony’s deal will also reunite Martin N. Bandier, the chairman of Sony/ATV, with the EMI publishing catalog, which he built over 17 years until he left the company for Sony in 2007. While Sony/ATV and EMI will be separate entities, Mr. Bandier made it clear in an interview that he intended to run them as one collection of songs.
Let us make some conclusions now. The share of 38% makes up more than one third of the consortium and belongs to Sony/ATV. In this stake Michael Jackson’s Estate has a half. This means that the personal stake of Michael Jackson’s children and his mother is 19% or almost one fifth of the new music publishing giant which is now number 1 in the world.
And this share belongs to Michael Jackson? The man who only three years ago was condescendingly looked upon as a ruined bankrupt, faded star and as someone who was completely done away with from the point of view of people like Tom Sneddon and Diane Dimond? Do you remember the snide remarks from DD and Peretti in that ugly film about Jackson where they practically labeled Michael a finished man?
And now this man has become a giant of music publishing business worth billions? And his estate will now receive profit each time Tom Sneddon and Diane Dimond listen to anyone’s music? Because Michael’s joint venture has control over 2 million songs and Michael’s detractors surely can’t avoid listening to them when they go shopping, watch TV or listen to the radio?
Imagine the feelings of those who made their living by mocking at Michael but are now humbled into listening from every corner to his and everybody else’s music, knowing that each minute of it brings profit to the man they ridiculed so much and wanted to see in the gutter?
And this giant worthy of billions is also the same man who was only recently humiliated beyond measure by the slavery terms imposed on him by AEG? And who was dictated their terms in the so-called riot act which threatened to pull the (financial) plug if he did not abide by their rules?
And all this miraculous change happened within the last 3 years only? With the help of the Estate lawyers by the way?
Oh Lord, your ways are full of wonder indeed! The Heavens definitely put their hand to it – none of us could ever count on a powerful revenge like that. The mills of God grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly small…
4. THE MIJAC CATALOG
As we know Sony/ATY will also administer the Mijac catalog which contains all Michael Jackson’s songs. The article below says that already half a year ago Sony/ATV had plans to take over the administration rights over Michael Jackson’s own songs from Warner Chappell.
What is exceptionally interesting in this information (dated February 2011) is that “according to sources, this arrangement was written into the MiJac contract with Warner Chappell years ago” which makes us think that Michael was well aware of the plans and probably even wanted it this way.
Another statement says that the process “would be triggered by the release of Michael’s next album–in this case, the recent ‘MICHAEL,’ and the repayment of loans”. Both of these terms have almost been fulfilled as the posthumous album was released and only $4 mln. of the initial loan pledged by the MjJac catalog is left to be paid.
Will MiJac Move To Sony/ATV?
Wednesday, February 16th 2011
Showbiz411.com have exclusively revealed that plans are developing to move MiJac Publishing away from it’s current administering company, Warner Chappell, and will become part of Sony/ATVMusic Publishing.
MiJac Publishing, owned entirely by Michael’s Estate not only owns all Michael’s iconic hits, but also those of Ray Charles, Curtis Mayfield and Sly and the Family Stone, to name but a few. Previously administered by Warner Chappell, in the face of the decline in the record industry, it could be that MiJac will leave them and become part of Sony/ATV Music Publishing, the company that the Michael Jackson Estate co-owns with Sony, and contains the Beatles Catalogue.
According to sources, this arrangement was written into the MiJac contract with Warner Chappell years ago. It would be triggered by the release of Michael’s next album–in this case, the recent ‘MICHAEL,’ and the repayment of loans.
The move by MiJac to Sony/ATV is important for many reasons. With both WMG and EMI Music for sale, Sony/ATV could be checking out each company’s publishing divisions for purchase. But Warner Chappell might be less interesting to Sony ATV considering they’re already getting MiJac and without MiJac, Warner Chappell–which just had a down quarter–might not look so good to other potential buyers.
http://www.mjworld.net/news/2011/02/16/will-mijac-move-to-sonyatv/
The same Michael Jackson fans’ source posted the message from John Branca which enables us to finally place it correctly in time. When Branca’s letter recently resurfaced we thought that it was written in connection with the latest maneuvers of Michael’s siblings over the will – however now it turns out that this was said a year and half ago, probably because the threat to challenge the will haunted the Estate lawyers then and is haunting them now (and haunts them on a permanent basis despite the fact that Branca was named Michael Jackson’s executor in four Michael’s wills).
Branca’s letter confirms that as long as he and John McClaim are in charge of the Estate they will never relinquish the ownership of Michael’s catalog to anyone. Even if it were passed to Sony/ATV it would be for a limited time only and on unprecedented favorable terms too. The main thing he says is that the catalog will by all means be passed over to Michael’s children (which is all that matters, at least to me).
Mijac & Sony/ATV
Thursday, February 24th 2011
There have been numerous questions asked regarding the Mijac catalog and reports in the press of it moving to Sony/ATV. Below is an email from Co-Executor John Branca to Jeff Jampol, GM of the MJ Online team, clarifying some of what has been publicized through various media outlets.
Forwarded Message From: John Branca Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:18:31 – 0600 To: Jeff Jampol
Subject: Michael Jackson/Mijac
Jeff, I understand that you are being asked a lot of questions about Mijac. Yes, there is a matching right that Michael granted to Sony/ATV but they only get to administer the catalog for a limited term AND only if they agree to unprecedented favorable terms. We will not relinquish ultimate control and ownership to anyone. We have favorably refinanced the loans on Mijac which will be paid off and the catalog WILL absolutely be passed to Michael’s children as long as we have anything to say about it. Sony/ATV is a great company and the Estate owns half of it but no one, not even Sony/ATV, will ever own Mijac while John McClain and I remain in charge. The current Sony team is the one Michael chose to work with on the ‘Thriller 25,’ release and they are good partners. As stated in the recent court filings, they worked with us to refinance the burdensome debt that had been placed on Michael’s interest in Sony/ATV to very favorable terms, an important achievement which insures that Mijac and Michael’s masters remain secure for the benefit of Michael’s children for years to come.
I would appreciate your sharing this with the fans that are asking questions. Thanks – John
John Branca Co-Executor, The Estate Of Michael Jackson, Los Angeles, CA
Source: MJOnline (The Official Online Team Of The Michael Jackson Estate) & MJWN http://www.mjworld.net/news/2011/02/24/mijac-sonyatv/
However let us pay attention to the phrase which is actually crucial for Michael’s ownership of the catalog – “We have favorably refinanced the loans on Mijac which will be paid off”. This phrase is indeed key to understanding the situation around the Mijac catalog of Michael Jackson’s songs.
5. ENTER FORTRESS INVESTMENT GROUP
If the loan for Mijac catalog had not been refinanced by Branca and McClain to a 4% interest rate it would have remained at the 16,5% it finally reached and would have required millions of dollars as monthly payments of the interest rate only.
And if the loan had had to be repaid at that outrageous interest rate Michael could have defaulted in payment and could have lost it altogether. In this case it would have gone not into Sony’s hands as everyone says, but into the hands of Fortress Investment group which acquired those loans from the Bank of America.
Here are some details about it from an article dated June 21, 2010. The article makes an important emphasis on the fact that the MJ Estate Executors are not actually “traditional executors” (who first pay the debts and then try to preserve whatever remains of the money). No, John Branca and John McClain are the people who are “aggressively managing Mr. Jackson’s affairs as a going concern”. The Estate Executives are not obliged to turn the Estate into a lucrative business, but they are nevertheless doing it and doing with much enthusiasm and fine professionalism.
From the article below we learn that the appalling interest rates which were to be paid for the loan backed by Mjjac catalog were handled in the most professional way and lowered to less than 4%:
Jackson Estate Steers to Next Challenge: Loan Refinancing
Since Mr. Jackson’s death last June 25, his businesses have been run by the singer’s longtime lawyer, John Branca, and a music-industry veteran and personal friend of Mr. Jackson’s named John McClain. Unlike traditional executors, Messrs. Branca and McClain are aggressively managing Mr. Jackson’s affairs as a going concern.
Mr. Jackson’s debts were spiraling out of control…. A loan backed by Mijac carried a crushing 16.5% interest rate, to be paid out of royalties generated by the company.
When the royalty payments fell short of the towering cost of servicing the debt, any unpaid interest was piled on to the principal. As a result, by the time of his death, the Mijac loan had reached $75 million, with $11 million due in annual interest, which was several million dollars more than the catalog was generating annually.
The loan has now been refinanced with an interest rate of less than 4%. And thanks to increased album sales since Mr. Jackson’s death and a new deal for public-performance royalties, the catalog is generating enough cash to pay off the refinanced loan a little more than a year from now.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703438604575315364195884770.html
The outrageous interest rates must have been the doing of Fortress Investments – the company which acquired all Michael’s loans from the Bank of America where they were initially taken by MJ.
Roger Friedman tells us the story of how Michael’s loans turned out to be in Fortress’s possession. Friedman claims that passing them over to Fortress shocked Jackson and was an unexpected move on the part of the Bank of America. What is top important is that as a result of the deal Fortress became the first in line to the ownership of Michael’s 50% share in Sony/ATV publishing venture in case he defaulted on the $200 loan.
The Fortress also acquired Michael’s loan for $72,5mln, which was backed by the Mijac catalog of Michael Jackson’s own songs. Friedman says that the new 9,5% interest rate on the loan was not negotiated with Michael and he simply had to accept it (eventually it turned into 16,5%.)
The above makes me ask Sony’s critics a question – who in their opinion presented a bigger danger to Michael Jackson in terms of losing not only one, but two catalogs, at least in the year 2005 – Sony or Fortress Investment Group?
When you read the article you’ll see that Roger Friedman thunders over Jackson’s rejection of the deal with Goldman Sachs and former advisors Charles Koppleman and Al Malnik who offered to buy half of his share (25%) to help him out of his liquidity crisis. Michael refusal shows that though this step would have solved his problems he was still intent on keeping his share intact (evidently to pass it over to his children).
In refusing Goldman Sachs Michael followed the advice of no other but John Branca. The press recently reported John Branca saying that it was him who advised Michael against selling half of Michael’s share, so Friedman is wrong in thinking that Branca sided with the others in the proposed deal.
Let us also disregard Friedman’s hostile tone (which is nothing new to us) and look at the factual side of the matter only:
FYI: Friedman – (Jackson) Shocked by Sale of Loans
From Roger Friedman’s column on May 5, 2005:
Michael Jackson was reportedly shocked Wednesday when he received word that Bank of America sold him out.
I can tell you exclusively that Bank of America has sold Jackson’s $270 million in loans to a private hedge fund. The group is called Fortress Investments, located in Manhattan. Their principals are Peter L. Briger Jr., formerly with Goldman Sachs, plus Wesley R. Edens, Robert I. Kauffman, Randal A. Nardone and Michael E. Novogratz — all with substantial backgrounds in finance.
Their specialty, according to their Web site, is rescuing “undervalued, orphaned and distressed investments throughout the United States, Western Europe and Japan.”
With this sale, Fortress now stands to become a 50 percent owner in Sony/ATV Music Publishing if Jackson should default on the loan.
Technically, he is currently in default. Furthermore, Jackson’s deal with Sony comes to an end this December, at which time the company can buy him out for $200 million if he can’t come up with a new buyer or enough money to pay back the loan.
The Fortress deal is also rumored to include a $70 million loan Jackson has on his own publishing catalog, called MiJac.
Jackson was apparently shocked, according to sources, when he got word about the sale on Wednesday morning from Bank of America. He had previously rejected a deal that would have netted him money, cleared debt and left him in good shape with people who were longtime friends. But now he’s in business with strangers.
Still in the equation, however, is grocery king Ron Burkle. He sent a letter to Bank of America several days ago saying that he needed 90 days to help Jackson refinance. Burkle could still be Jackson’s white knight and bail him out from Fortress, but so far he’s done nothing. Jackson remains cash poor in the meantime as he continues to stand trial for child molestation here in Santa Maria.
Michael Jackson has no one to blame but himself for what’s happened to him now. He can’t say record producer Tommy Mottola is a racist or that producer Charles Koppleman is out to get him. He’s cooked his own goose, with all the trimmings.
Jackson was severely taken aback to discover yesterday morning that Bank of America had sold his $270 million debt to a group of private investors. But why was he surprised at all? In the last few weeks, Jackson has done nothing but spit in the faces of the people who have kept him solvent for the last 20 years.
First there was his private banker at Bank of America, Jane Heller. Heller came with Jackson’s loan from NationsBank when it was merged into Bank of America. But the fact is, Heller has kept Jackson in carnival makeup and llama food for the two last decades.
Then there’s Al Malnik and Charles Koppleman. They’re not the Red Cross; they’re savvy businessmen. But they worked hard for Jackson over the last three years to help get his house in order and off the auction block. Jackson was frequent guest at Malnik’s Miami manse, bringing with him kids, nannies, etc.
In 2003, Malnik told Jackson that he should downsize his life, take stock and stop inviting children into his bed, before the current scandal broke in the fall of 2003. Jackson froze him out and the two have not talked since then.
Jackson also long ago stopped speaking to Koppleman and to his longtime attorney John Branca — two more advisers who kept him afloat. Instead, Jackson turned to a succession of con artists and hustlers who promised him the moon but simply mooned him.
There was also the brief infatuation with the Nation of Islam and the ill-fated association with Shmuley Boteach. To this day no one knows where the money went from the Feb. 14, 2001, Carnegie Hall event hosted by Boteach and Jackson “for children.”
But the one thing Jackson had with Heller, Malnik, Koppleman and Branca — besides a history — was affection. They cared about him even when he didn’t care about them. They protected him, too.
But last month Jackson refused a deal they offered that would have bailed him out of debt. He didn’t like it because he thought they would get something out of it. In his characteristic sneaky manner, he turned to grocery king Rob Burkle of Yucaipa Companies to save the day.
Malnik, properly insulted, quit. The bank, which considered Malnik their only link to reality, obviously had enough.
Who knows what the moneymen that bought out Jackson’s debt have in mind for the loan. One thing is for sure: The hedge fund’s major principle, Peter L. Briger, doesn’t know the former King of Pop and probably doesn’t want to.
Briger will function very well as a stranger to Jackson, dispassionate and businesslike as the clock counts down to December 20: the day when Jackson will have to either put up or shut for good. One thing’s for sure: He will get exactly what he deserves.
Source: MJFC / Fox News
Despite Roger Friedman’s highly negative attitude and resentment towards Michael the news that Michael was in a serious risk of losing his Beatles catalog was correct. It was repeated by CNN who said that the loan for $200 mln. sold to Fortress by the Bank of American was due in December 2005 or only six months from the moment when this article was written:
Michael Jackson to lose Beatles catalog?
The cash-strapped pop star on trial for child molestation finds some of his assets threatened.
May 5, 2005: 3:53 PM EDT
By Krysten Crawford, CNN/Money staff writer (excerpts)Two loans estimated at $270 million that are tied to the Beatles catalog and other assets have been sold by Bank of America, the nation’s No. 2 bank, to a private hedge fund, according to people familiar with the transaction.
Jackson’s financial troubles have been known for years. To secure the Bank of America loans in 2001, Jackson offered as collateral his 50 percent stake in a Sony partnership that holds copyrights to more than 200 Beatles songs. The loans were also backed by Jackson’s own music library and a partial deed on his Neverland ranch in Santa Ynez, Calif.
Technically Jackson has defaulted on loan payments, one of the sources said.
Typically, when a debtor defaults or is about to default on a loan, terms are renegotiated. Another option is for the lender to sell the loan — and the collateral that comes with it — to another party. Bank of America chose to sell the loans to the hedge fund, New York-based Fortress Investment Group.
Depending on negotiations with Fortress, the risk that Jackson could lose the copyrights to the Beatles songs as well as his own hit recordings is real.
An accountant testifying at Jackson’s child molestation trial this week told jurors that the rock star is in financial straits. Forensic accountant John Duross O’Bryan said Jackson is spending about $20 million to $30 million a year more than he earns.
Jackson, Duross O’Bryan testified, has liabilities of about $415 million. The result is “an ongoing cash crisis,” Duross O’Bryan testified.
To fund his lavish lifestyle, Jackson has borrowed against his assets. Duross O’Bryan said that one of the loans that Bank of America sold to Fortress, valued at $200 million, is due in December 2005.
Losing the Beatles rights could put into play one of the world’s most valuable song portfolios.
Jackson, 46, acquired the Beatles song catalog in 1985 for $47.5 million, outbidding ex-Beatles singer/bassist Paul McCartney. Jackson then sold a piece of his stake to Sony a decade later, creating a joint venture called Sony/ATV Music Publishing. The venture is now believed to be worth more than $400 million.
Royalty arrangements can be quite complicated. Basically, Jackson and Sony receive a fee each time one of the Beatles songs is played on the radio or a Beatles album is sold. Industry royalty rates for single-song plays can run under 10 cents, while rights holders typically earn a small percentage on each album sold.
Another major revenue stream for Jackson is Mijac Music, the copyright holder on all of his hits and other artists’ songs. Mijac is thought to be worth roughly $75 million, according to reports.
Hedge funds are largely unregulated investment vehicles that are designed for wealthy investors looking for big returns on riskier bets. According to InvestorForce, there are more than 4,000 such funds with more than $800 billion in assets.
A small fraction of hedge funds invest in what are known as distressed securities, such as debts like Jackson’s.
http://money.cnn.com/2005/05/05/news/newsmakers/jackson_loan/index.htm?cnn=yes
In almost every article of the period Roger Friedman’s exclaims that Michael was crazy to reject the deal from Goldman Sachs and his former advisors Charles Koppelman and Al Malnik who offered to purchase from him 25% of the Beatles catalog (or half of Michael’s share). For us Michael’s refusal is a sure sign of how terribly unwilling Michael was to part even with a fraction of his catalog though the dramatic situation and common sense were urging him to sell.
We also remember that Charles Koppelman always wanted to have the Beatles catalog and was one of the initial bidders for it, but lost to Michael in 1985, so I somewhat doubt the sincerity of his friendly gesture towards Michael Jackson.
6. EVEN A PLEDGED CATALOG NEEDS EXPANDING
From another Roger Friedman’s article we find out that under the initial agreement with Michael Jackson Sony was to go on adding new songs to the catalog and do it even on behalf of Michael Jackson. However the burden of it was not supposed to affect Jackson as the cost of new acquisitions was to be covered by the money generated by the catalog itself.
The idea was very good, as I’ve said before, but at the time there was no way to know that Michael would need a tremendous amount of cash to solve his legal problems both in the 90s when he had to settle numerous suits from Marcel Avram for disrupting the Dangerous tour and other commitments arising from it and during the 2003-2005 non-stop litigation process (all in all Michael Jackson faced more than 1000 lawsuits in his life).
What looked like an effortless acquisition of more and more songs became an extra burden for Michael when he started fighting the circumstances and those acquisitions could have well accumulated new debts for him – though “on paper only”, according to Roger Friedman.
Jackson Finances: CPA Got It Wrong (excerpt)
May 4, 2005
Readers of this column know we started generating stories here about Michael Jackson’s finances as long ago as 2001. This was after an excellent piece in Penthouse (of all places) by investigative journalist John Connolly. Later this material was picked up and repurposed without credit in Vanity Fair.
Yesterday, a CPA hired by the prosecution to analyze Jackson’s financial picture testified in the trial. This, of course, was District Attorney Tom Sneddon’s great revenge, to embarrass the King of Pop and show him as a pauper who lives beyond his means.
Unfortunately, the accountant assigned this task, while very nice, had no real experience evaluating song catalogs or entertainment portfolios other than, he said, some work on David Bowie’s finances. For example, a verbal fight ensued between John Durros Bryan, the accountant, and defense attorney Tom Mesereau over how much Jackson’s stake in Sony/ATV Music Publishing is worth. Even though Jackson has a 50 percent stake in the company, Bryan insisted he would get far less than that if the company were sold or if Jackson were bought out of his half.
If the company is worth $1 billion, Bryan claimed, Jackson would get only $200 million. Sony would get the rest.
Well, Mr. Bryan, you are — to quote Janet Arvizo — incorrect.
My sources, who have been right on the money about Jackson and Sony for a long time now, explain it this way: Jackson and Sony are in fact 50/50 owners of Sony/ATV Music Publishing. Sony often makes acquisitions for the company. They recently bought Acuff Rose Music Publishing, for example. But Sony’s deal with Jackson is that they must finance his half of such acquisitions. “That creates a debt on paper,” says my source.
But that debt, which is amortized over a 10-year period, is not counted against Jackson. That’s because the purchase of the acquisition turns a huge profit over the years to come, making money for everyone.
Jackson, in fact, has a $500 million stake in Sony/ATV. He has a Bank of America loan against it for $200 million. If the company is sold for a billion, or Sony buys him out, Jackson will be left with $300 million. Of course he has other substantial debts that would winnow that amount down considerably. But Bryan was wrong, my source says, when he testified that if Jackson sold his stake, he’d not only be broke but $40 million in debt because of his tax liability.
Frankly, the only thing Bryan said yesterday that was completely accurate was in response to Mesereau’s assertion that Jackson had offers to sell his stake for $400 million — thus bailing himself out of hock.
Said Bryan: “If that’s the case, then why doesn’t he do it?”
Responded my source, who knows Jackson well: “Because he’s crazy.”
Jackson, in fact, just rejected a deal from Goldman Sachs and his former financial angels Charles Koppleman and Al Malnik. The deal would have left Jackson with no debt at Neverland or on his own songwriting catalog, a 25% stake in Sony/ATV, $10 million cash and a $7 million-a-year income. Why? He just didn’t like it.
$38,000 to Pay $10 Million in Bills?
One true thing did come out of the long examination of Jackson’s finances yesterday. Schaffel, who was earlier identified as cashing checks for $1.5 million from a joint account with Jackson, clearly was reimbursing himself for money owed.
You may recall this column breaking the story of Schaffel’s civil suit against Jackson for $4 million. After John Bryan’s testimony yesterday, we know that around the time Schaffel was cashing those checks, Jackson had only $38,000 in cash for spending money. He had bills of $10 million.
It was hard to imagine when the story of the suit broke that Marc Schaffel was actually lending millions to Michael Jackson. But apparently Jackson’s lack of liquidity was so pronounced at the time — February and March 2003 — that Schaffel was loaning him money and advancing money for the production of Jackson’s rebuttal video and home movies, which were shown on Fox.
Source: MJFC / Fox News / Roger Friedman used with special permission.
Despite Michael’s lack of liquidity (ready cash) Wiki confirms that Michael Jackson never wanted to part with his share in the Sony/ATV catalog and that new acquisitions to it were part of the plan from the very beginning of the joint venture.
Michael Jackson said that his catalog would never be for sale:
In May 2001, Jackson denied rumours that he was planning to sell the Beatles’ song catalogue. Rumours had circulated that the singer was to sell them in order to finance the upkeep of Neverland Ranch and to cover legal bill expenses.[21] The singer announced in a statement, “I want to clarify a silly rumour – The Beatles catalogue is not for sale, has not been for sale and will never be for sale.[21]
Sony/ATV Music Publishing continued to acquire song catalogues in the 21st century. In November 2001, the company signed country singer Tony Martin to an exclusive songwriting and co-publishing deal. Through the deal, they acquired Martin’s Baby Mae Music catalog of 600 songs, which includes Joe Diffie’s “Third Rock from the Sun” and Jeff Carson’s “Not on Your Love”.[22]
In July 2002, Sony/ATV Music Publishing bought veteran country music publisher Acuff-Rose for $157 million. The venture included music publishing rights to 55,000 country music songs, including the music of Hank Williams, The Everly Brothers and Roy Orbison[23][24] as well as the master recordings of the defunct label Hickory Records. Sony/ATV revived Hickory Records as the in-house record label imprint in 2007, with distribution handled by Sony Music’s RED Distribution.[25] Sony/ATV also owns the masters of Dial Records, Four Star Records and Challenge Records.[26]
In 2006, Sony obtained an option to buy half of Jackson’s stake in the company at any time for a fixed price of $250 million.[27][28][29][30] Sony has not exercised the option.
Timeline of Sony/ATV Music Publishing 1955 Associated Television (ATV) is established by Lew Grade. 1957 ATV acquires Pye Records as a wholly owned subsidiary. 1957 ATV Music Publishing is created to exploit the songs owned by ATV. 1968 ATV Music and Lew Grade acquire the rights to the Lennon–McCartney song catalogue, Northern Songs. 1982 ATV Music Publishing and Pye Records are put up for sale. They are bought Robert Holmes à Court. 1985 ATV Music Publishing and its assets, Pye Records and Northern Songs, are again put up for sale. Singer Michael Jackson acquires them for $47.5 million. 1995 Jackson merges ATV Music Publishing with Sony. He earns $90 million in the venture. May 2001 Jackson declares that The Beatles’ songs “will never be for sale”. November 2001 Sony/ATV Music Publishing acquires Tony Martin’s Baby Mae Music catalogue of 600 songs. July 2002 Sony/ATV Music Publishing buys country music publisher Acuff-Rose for $157 million. The venture includes publishing rights to 55,000 songs. 2007 Sony/ATV Music Publishing acquires theLeiber and Stoller catalogue, which includes the Elvis Presley hits “Hound Dog” and “Jailhouse Rock,” and Famous Music, a music publishing business with song catalogue of more than 125,000 songs.
The new acquisition was made after Michael’s death:
| 2012 | Sony/ATV leads a consortium that acquires EMI Music Publishing, the world’s largest catalog with over 1,300,000 rights to songs, making Sony/ATV the world’s largest music publishing corporation with over 2,000,000 songs and about 1.26 billion dollars in revenue per year. |
7. THE “DAY OF RECKONING” WAS PUT OFF DUE TO SONY’S HELP
The day when the $200 mln. loan was to be repaid to Fortress Investment Group was December 21, 2005 which was only several months after the end of the 2005 trial, so we can very well imagine Michael Jackson’s emotional state at the time. If Michael did not pay it off he was to lose his share in the Sony/ATV joint venture which served as collateral for those millions.
From the article below we get a confirmation that Fortress also owned the second Michael Jackson’s loan, backed by his Mijac catalog, but as per December 2005 the loan for at least that catalog was not yet due.
Michael sought an extension of the deal with Fortress, however they agreed to only 6 months and with interim payments at the rate of 9,5% which amounted to $1,5mln. a month.
The LA Times has no respect for the man who seems to be doomed to a default in payment:
Michael Jackson Advisors Try to Stave Off Default
The singer, whose loans for $200 million came due Tuesday, is seeking a six-month extension.
December 21, 2005|Charles Duhigg | Times Staff Writer
Advisors to Michael Jackson spent Tuesday negotiating to keep the once self-proclaimed “king of pop” from defaulting on $200 million in loans guaranteed by the singer’s stake in the Beatles’ song catalog.
People familiar with the negotiations expected Jackson’s representatives to secure a six-month extension to repay Fortress Investment Group, which owns loans that came due Tuesday. Fortress purchased the debt from Bank of America Corp. in April [2005].
The loans are collateralized by Jackson’s 50% partnership in Sony/ATV Music Publishing, a joint venture between the singer and the electronics company that owns a 4,000-song catalog containing such songs as Bob Dylan’s “Blowin’ in the Wind” and 251 Beatles hits.
Jackson’s share in Sony/ATV, which also owns his valuable catalog and Neverland ranch in the Santa Ynez Valley, is worth more than $500 million, according to court testimony.
According to sources, Fortress will demand interim payments during the extension, and may insist on an interest rate that could reach as high as 9.5%, or more than $1.5 million a month.
Fortress also owns another Jackson loan, for $70 million, that has not come due. The sources requested anonymity because negotiations were still going on.
A spokeswoman for Fortress declined to comment on the negotiations. A spokeswoman for Sony/ATV declined to discuss specifics, except to say that the firm was “trying to be a good partner, and keep the partnership with Jackson going.” Jackson’s lawyers and spokeswoman did not return phone calls.
If Jackson does default on his loans, he may be forced to sell a portion of his half-ownership in Sony/ATV. Such a transaction, however, could take months to complete and might result in a tax bill of $40 million, according to court testimony from earlier this year.
Jackson was acquitted of charges of child molestation in June in Santa Maria, Calif. During that trial, court testimony revealed that the singer was strapped for cash, spending as much as $30 million more a year than he earned. During the last year Jackson was sued at least four times, accused of failing to pay $3.3 million in overdue bills.
Jackson is living in the Middle Eastern nation of Bahrain, and it is unclear whether he is personally involved in his finances. Once represented by established career builders such as Sandy Gallin and Jeff Kwatinetz, Jackson has in recent years had an ever-changing circle of advisors, many with little experience in finance or the music business. Often, the singer’s decision-making is based on “who has Michael’s ear at the moment,” as one longtime confidant put it in June.
Jackson’s financial troubles have worsened as his popularity has declined. Jackson’s 1982 album, “Thriller,” is No. 2 on the list of best-selling albums in U.S. history, shipping 26 million copies since its release, according to the Recording Industry Assn. of America.
But Jackson’s last album of new material, 2001’s “Invincible,” sold only 2.1 million copies, according to Nielsen SoundScan. Since 2003, domestic sales of Jackson’s albums have declined to about 1 million a year .http://articles.latimes.com/2005/dec/21/business/fi-jackson21
Six months later, in April 2006, or when the extended period was over, Fortress was relentless and was all ready to grab the Beatles catalog into its hands. In a desperate situation like that Michael Jackson turned to… you won’t believe it … he turned to Sony (!) or a company which, if we are to listen to some bloggers, was supposed to be his enemy until the end of times.
Sony helped to refinance the debt by procuring a $300 mln. credit from the Barclays’ bank and lowered the interest rate from the 9,5% down. In return all they asked of Jackson was the right to be the first to buy half of Michael’s share in their mutual catalog (or that 25% asked by Koppelman and Malnik), which was an option which Sony never used, either when Michael was alive or after his death.
This fact should be remembered and never to be forgotten by Michael Jackson’s fans – Sony never used the option of buying half of Michael Jackson’ s share!
Where are these bloggers who constantly hum in our ears that Sony is the main villain? Why do they forget about Fortress Investment Group for example? Or are they working for Fortress, Koppleman or Sony’s competitors or all of them taken together? Otherwise how can they explain that they choose to totally disregard facts?
8. ENTER PRESCIENT ACQUISITIONS GROUP
The article below repeats the usual mantra of a non-existent danger of Michael forfeiting his share to Sony and naturally does not say a word that as a result of Michael’s cooperation with Fortress he was in the imminent danger of losing all his belongings – including his whole 50% share in the Sony/ATV catalog plus the full of the Mjjac catalog (when that loan was due).
The article also introduces us to Prescient Acquisition Group which prides itself on finding investors who paid for Michael’s $272.5 million debt to the Bank of America. The article is very vague about who these investors are, but it must have been Fortress whom they found. In addition to Fortress another company mentioned is Transitional Investors LLC through whom they claimed that refinancing was done. For their services of middlemen Prescient Acquisition Group wanted $48 mln. in fees.
If all of the above is true it means that Roger Friedman’s initial story was incorrect – the transition of the loans from the Bank of America to Fortress Investment Group could not be a surprise for Michael Jackson as it resulted from the long process of finding new investors who would buy Michael’s debts from the Bank of America. On the other hand it could be correct as another option is that all these negotiations could take place behind Michael Jackson’s back.
Whatever it was, it is worth mentioning that none of these businessmen behaved in a way even remotely close to Sony who showed their goodwill towards Michael and readiness to help. Sony sent to Dubai two executives who met Michael and renegotiated the deal with Fortress Investment Group.
This article is clearly underestimating this fact. Moreover they are not even saying that it is Sony which helps Michael with the refinancing – instead they overemphasize the fact that Sony will receive a 25% stake as a result:
Michael Jackson Refinances to Stave Off Bankruptcy
By Alex Armitage and Dana Cimilluca – April 13, 2006
April 13 (Bloomberg) — Michael Jackson, struggling to stave off bankruptcy, agreed to a debt refinancing that may lead him to forfeit a share of a music catalog that includes more than 200 Beatles songs.
Jackson refinanced loans with hedge fund Fortress Investment Group LLC, the singer said in an e-mailed statement today. The statement didn’t disclose terms of the refinancing.
Under the agreement, Jackson gave Sony Corp. an option to buy half of his 50 percent stake in Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC, allowing him to refinance about $300 million of loans, according to people familiar with the transaction. The catalog, which includes songs from Bob Dylan and John Mayer, is worth more than $1 billion. The sale may help Jackson pay debts that mounted as he fought child-molestation charges.
“He wasn’t going to give it up willingly,” said media analyst Hal Vogel, chief executive of New York-based Vogel Capital, who values the catalog at $1 billion. “He didn’t want to give it up unless he had to.”
Jackson, 47, bought the catalog 21 years ago, outbidding Beatle Paul McCartney and John Lennon’s widow, Yoko Ono.
Grahame Nelson, a lawyer representing Jackson at Qays H. Zubi, didn’t return calls seeking comment. Sony spokeswoman Lisa Gephardt declined to comment beyond saying Sony is committed to its partnership with Jackson.
He paid $47.5 million in 1985 to acquire the ATV catalog, which has about 4,000 songs, including Dylan’s “Blowin’ in the Wind” and “Sweet Caroline” by Neil Diamond.
In 1995, Jackson merged his ATV Music with Sony’s publishing business to battle financial problems. The singer is currently living in Bahrain. His team for the refinancing included Bahrain- based financial adviser Ahmed Al Khan and lawyers Qays H. Zubi Attorneys & Legal Consultants.
Fortress, based in New York, manages $21 billion, including buyout, hedge and real estate funds. It’s run by former Goldman Sachs partner Peter Briger and Wesley Edens, a former partner at BlackRock Financial Management Inc. Lilly Donohue, a Fortress managing director, declined to comment.
The refinancing will lower the interest rate on Jackson’s debt, which had risen to as high as 9.5 percent, said one person, who asked not to be named.
Lawsuits stemming from Jackson’s financial woes posed a hurdle to refinancing the debt. At least one lawsuit against Jackson, filed in federal court in New York, is still pending.
Prescient Acquisitions Group Inc., a New Jersey-based financial company that specializes in asset acquisitions, sued Jackson last July, saying the entertainer owed $48 million in fees for helping him secure a loan that rescued his stake in publishing rights to Beatles’ songs.
Prescient said in the suit it helped Jackson find investors to help him pay off a $272.5 million debt to Bank of America.
Fortress holds the debt previously held by Bank of America Corp., today’s statement said. Citigroup Inc. arranged the refinancing.
Prescient said it also helped Jackson buy complete control of “MJ Publishing Trust,” which is also known as “Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC.”
Prescient said Bank of America found Jackson in default on part of the loans and creditors were setting their sights on MJ Publishing Trust and the Beatles catalog. The suit said the catalog was pledged as collateral for some of his loans.
Prescient said in the suit it fulfilled the contract and secured financing for Jackson through a group of investors that included Transitional Investors LLC and Fortress.
Evan Weintraub, a lawyer for MJ Publishing Trust, Jackson and MJ-ATV Publishing Trust, wasn’t immediately available for comment.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aT0PEoxVhUnY&refer=us
Michael Jackson happily announced that the restructuring with the help of Sony was successful:
Michael Jackson Restructuring Finances
MANAMA, Bahrain, April 13, 2006 /PRNewswire/ —
Michael Jackson is pleased to announce that he has restructured his finances with the assistance of Sony Corporation of America, the long time co-owner of Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC.
Following negotiations with several leading financial institutions, Mr. Jackson has concluded refinancing with affiliates of Fortress Investment Group, the lender that currently holds secured debts that were previously held by Bank of America. Citigroup structured the transaction for the parties. The terms of this new financing deal will not be disclosed. Mr. Jackson was supported on the refinancing by an advisory team that included Bahrain-based financial advisor Ahmed Al Khan and Qays H. Zubi Attorneys & Legal Consultants.
Source: MJFC / PRNewswire
However even after the restructuring and only a year after the ordeal of the 2005 trial Michael still couldn’t enjoy a moment of quiet. Several months later he faced a big lawsuit from Marc Schaffel plus some smaller ones. We’ll have to skip them and pass immediately to another mind-boggling event in Michael Jackson’s life.
9. THE “LIQUIDATION SALE” WHICH NEVER HAPPENED. A NEW CHARACTER ENTERS
The Liquidation Sale (of the Beatles catalog) was written about by Roger Friedman in March 2007 and was announced to take place on May 2008 a year later.
This Liquidation business is so confusing a matter that I would suggest you read Friedman’s article on your own to see how many new characters are introduced into the picture in addition to those we already know and how deadly was a game Michael’s so-called advisors involved him in.
It was at this stage that I suddenly recalled that John Branca had already resigned by then (he left in 2006) as he was totally unable to put up with what was going on around Michael Jackson at the time.
To my big surprise I found out from the same article that the person who is terribly hostile towards Branca now was playing the key role in the 2005-2007 drama as well. Now it seems to me that the rivalry between them has a long history of its own. Who this person is you will find from the article below that broke the sensational news:
Michael Jackson Will Lose Beatles Catalog in ’08
Written By Roger Friedman
March 09, 2007
Michael Jackson had better hold on to whatever money he pocketed in Japan this week during a promotional tour.
I can report today that Jackson will lose his hold on the Beatles catalog and Sony/ATV Music Publishing on May 31, 2008. That date, revealed here for the first time, is known as the “Liquidation Sale” among insiders.
And Jackson knows this. He even hired a famous law firm, White & Case, to evaluate the deal he made with Sony and Fortress Investments when he refinanced his shaky empire last year.
This doesn’t mean that Jackson won’t still owe Fortress $300 million after the liquidation sale is over. He will, but he can pay them back from the money Sony pays him to buy out their half of the music company.
Its value is somewhere between $1.1 and $1.6 billion, according to a Fortress exec who was deposed last year in preparation for a $48 million lawsuit brought against Jackson by Darien Dash, who helms Prescient Capital Group and is a cousin of hip-hop entrepreneur Damon Dash.
Recently, both Jackson and Prescient have asked the judge in New York to speed things along, and an answer is pending.
At question is whether or not Don Stabler, an accountant hired by Randy Jackson, Michael’s brother, had the authority to enter into agreements on Jackson’s behalf.
Stabler agreed to pay Prescient/Dash a nine percent fee for finding financing to replace Jackson’s $270 million at Bank of America.
Dash found Fortress, which offered over $500 million to help Jackson buy out Sony in his agreement.
That much wasn’t needed, but Dash is asking for his fee on that amount.
The original Jackson-Prescient-Fortress deal went down in May 2005 while Jackson stood trial in Santa Maria, Calif., for child molestation. But, unbeknownst to anyone, the negotiations had actually begun in November 2004. A year later, in the spring of 2006, Jackson — now bidden to Fortress — was out of money again and renegotiating his terms.
Sony Music came to his rescue, but at a price: they would be able to trigger a purchase of Jackson’s entire stake, not just half of it, at the end of May 2008. [This is a MISTAKE which Friedman later admitted and corrected – the share was 25% only]
And Jackson agreed to more than just that: he also signed a promissory note with Fortress for $20 million. It comes due this October.
Selling his half of Sony-ATV back to Sony won’t be so easy for Jackson or so lucrative.
According to testimony in various Prescient depositions, Jackson could be charged as much as $250 million “off the top” by Sony for expenses they’ve incurred while running the partnership.
That would whittle down his potential $600 million windfall almost by half. A further subtraction of the $300 million loan to Fortress would leave him with little wiggle room.
Jackson, it’s also revealed in the depositions, once tried to sell his half of the company to billionaire Ron Burkle during the child molestation trial.
“I remember precisely at court in the bathroom stall with the cell phone in my hand, saying why don’t you just buy it? I want to sell it you,” Jackson said.
Burkle, Jackson said, declined, telling him he had to keep the music catalog for his children.
Jackson’s deposition in the Prescient case, which is now becoming public, is otherwise the usual symphony of “I don’t knows” and “I don’t remembers” that Jackson offers in these circumstances. It was conducted last June 12 at Jackson’s expense — possibly $100,000 — at a hotel in Versailles, France, at his request.
But Jackson is far from stupid. His answers and vagueness seem coached, but from the Marx Brothers and Abbott & Costello. At one point he starts calling the proceedings “ridiculous,” an adjective he invokes often. Asked what’s ridiculous about the case, Jackson answers: “Three Stooges.”
There is also a long debate about where he lives. He doesn’t know the address, can’t tell the difference between Bahrain, Dubai and Oman or the various palaces he’s been in. “The Muslim names are kind of confusing to me, so it’s hard,” he says.
Jackson is also fairly embittered by his experiences in the music business.
“It’s full of sharks,” he says to one of the lawyers, “charlatans and imposters. Because there’s a lot of money involved, there’s a bunch of schmucks in there.” Of course, it’s the wrong word: schmuck means, loosely, losers.
At another time, it’s implied that flashy Florida attorney Willie Gary made an offer to buy Jackson’s Neverland Ranch. Now shuttered, Neverland is leveraged by Jackson with a $25 million loan, also with Fortress.
There’s an upside to all this: Jackson, under the renegotiation, receives an annual advance from Sony of $6.5 million. He gets another $2 million under another clause. It’s not a lot for a celebrity who likes to travel, stay in expensive hotels and shut down toy stores for private shopping. But it’s nothing to sneeze at, either.
What’s interesting about all this now is that it’s no longer about Jackson. His career is finished. It’s now more about what a hot potato the Beatles catalog has become, and why its ever-increasing value has permitted Jackson to live outside the norm. It may be the wisest investment ever made by a celebrity.
Jackson should be sending thank you letters to John Branca and Frank DiLeo, his two former advisers, every day of the week.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,258016,00.html#ixzz24mdWSKzU
Forget about Michael Jackson’s “finished career” according to Roger Friedman and other media – it was finished only when it was in the hands of people like the Fortress, Priscient and Randy Jackson. If the finances are in capable hands then what was a total catastrophe is turning into lucrative contracts, dozens of new opportunities and acquisition of new publishing rights worthy of billions.
But let us try to understand the meaning of what we’ve just read.
So almost a year before that, in April 2006 a refinancing deal was made by Sony in respect of Michael’s debt to Fortress. Fortress could be promised $300mln. instead of the initial $272,5 they bought from the Bank of America, and Sony was to buy 25% of Michael’s share in the catalog – probably as a guarantor that they would repay Michael’s debts.
In other words Sony was to buy half of Michael’s share in the joint venture and this way provide Michael with the funds that would enable him to repay his debts to Fortress. This is how I read the statement from Friedman which says :
- “This doesn’t mean that Jackson won’t still owe Fortress $300 million after the liquidation sale is over. He will, but he can pay them back from the money Sony pays him to buy out their half of the music company”.
We also find out that Fortress did not make a single step without deriving additional profit for themselves. Therefore they forced Michael to sign a promissory note with them for $20 mln. which was evidently covered by some of Michael’s assets. If he defaulted under it these assets were to be passed over to Fortress.
On the other hand we learn that under the same refinancing deal Sony was doing the impossible – it was providing Michael with “an annual advance of $6.5 million and another $2 million under another clause”.
It is surprising, but doesn’t Sony look like the best of all the characters taking part in this ugly play?
Another surprise is that it was Randy Jackson and his assistant Don Stadler who took an active part in finding a candidate to refinance Michael’s loan with the Bank of America.
This was taking place during the trial when Randy Jackson was attending to all Michael’s business matters and Michael didn’t have a chance to go into details. Is this why Michael didn’t know of the transition of his loans from the Bank of America to a third party and could it really be negotiated behind his back?
The good investor found by Prescient on instructions from Randy Jackson was Fortress Investment Group. For the honor of getting this investor finance Michael’s business Randy Jackson and his assistant agreed to pay to the middle man Darian Dash of the Prescient group 9% of the funds provided.
What’s interesting is the Prescient offered Michael the chance of $500 mln. to enable him to buy out Sony’s share in the Sony/ATV catalog, but it turned out that this wasn’t really needed.
The deal to buy out Sony’s share out of the catalog was probably initiated by Randy Jackson and this is why Prescient clever guys asked their 9% fee on the full $500 mln. amount promised and not the amount actually used to pay to the Bank of America for the loan passed over to Fortress which was $200mln.
Incidentally we also learn that Fortress acquired all Michael’s debts:
- the $200mln. loan was backed by the Beatles catalog,
- the $72,5 mln. were backed by the Mijac catalog
- and Neverland which was estimated at the price of $25mln was also in the Fortress loans porfolio!
All these assets were to pass over to Fortress Investments Group in case of Michael’s default in payment.
What did we forget? Oh, we forgot that Prescient was threatening Michael with stories that Sony would not pay the money due to him for his share in the catalog and would charge him $250mln for the expenses they incurred during that partnership. No such thing ever happened, but this is what Prescient thought or at least said in their depositions (evidently betraying their own ways of doing business with partners).
We also learn that billionaire Ron Burkle turned out to be a very decent man who refused to buy Michael’s catalog and said he should keep it for his children.
Michael did not lose his share in the catalog as Sony brought in the Barclays bank and they refinanced his deal with Fortress Investments at the very last moment. In return Sony could buy half of Michael’s share at any time at a fixed price of $250 mln but never did it:
“As part of the agreement under which Barclays ultimately refinanced that debt, Mr. Jackson granted Sony an option to buy half of his stake in the company at any time for a fixed price of $250 million. At the time that was a generous valuation” http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703438604575315364195884770.html
Several months after these events, in June 2007 Michael Jackson chose to settle the $48 mln. Prescient lawsuit, evidently to save the Jackson family from further embarrassment:
Michael Jackson’s court case settled
New York | June 20, 2007Singer Michael Jackson decided to settle a $48 million lawsuit, which was filed against him in New York by a New Jersey finance company.
The lawsuit alleged that Jackson had stiffed businessman Darien Dash and Prescient Acquisition Group after they helped him refinance a $272 million bank loan and helped secure $573 million in financing to help the superstar buy out Sony’s half of the Beatles’ song catalogue.
Lawyers announced Monday that the case had been settled out of court for an undisclosed sum just as Manhattan federal Judge Kevin Castel was preparing to select a jury.
We’re very pleased with the settlement, said Dash’s lawyer, Steven Altman.
Court records also revealed that the jurors were supposed to watch a recorded deposition from Jackson in which he accuses former financial advisers of swindling him out of money while he was in court to face child-sex charges.
http://news.webindia123.com/news/ar_showdetails.asp?id=706200117&cat=&n_date=20070620
Though this article does not name the sum paid by Michael Jackson Roger Friedman reported that the sum of the settlement was $5 million:
- “Jackson has recently settled a lawsuit brought by Prescient Capital for $5 million”. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287075,00.html
10. RANDY JACKSON
A couple of days prior to the news about that settlement, information about Michael being extremely angry with his brother Randy appeared in the NYDaily News:
World of Jax & robbers
Singer says his brother and pal tried to cheat him out of fortune
BY THOMAS ZAMBITO
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Sunday, June 17th 2007Michael Jackson claims he was nearly swindled out of his fortune during his kiddie-sex trial and only the wise counsel of the Rev. Jesse Jackson and billionaire Ron Burkle saved him.
The behind-the-scenes battle over the pop star’s finances is detailed in a sworn deposition he gave for a federal lawsuit scheduled to go to trial this week.
There is a possibility that Jackson himself might even be called to testify.
The seven hours of transcripts obtained by the Daily News reveal that the agitated entertainer was convinced his money woes were fueled by a cadre of disloyal advisers who stole from him while he was busy fighting criminal charges.
The Gloved One even fingered a man close to his older brother Randy as a key villain.
It was an ordeal that left Jackson bitter about the industry in which he’s spent his entire life.
“It’s full of sharks, charlatans and imposters,” he said in testimony taken last summer in Paris [another article says that Michael had to fly all lawyers to Paris at the cost of $100,000 as he himself was living outside the US].
“Because there’s a lot of money involved, there’s a bunch of schmucks in there,” Jackson said. “It’s the entertainment world, full of thieves and crooks. That’s not new. Everybody knows that.”
A Santa Maria, Calif., jury acquitted him of child molestation charges in June 2005, after which he retreated into the seclusion of his Neverland ranch.
But during breaks in the trial, Jackson says he was being pressured to sign off on a multimillion-dollar financing deal by Don Stabler, an associate brought in by brother Randy, his go-to guy on financial matters during much of his career.
Jackson initially took a liking to Stabler after Randy introduced them.
“He reminded me of people that live in mid-America like Indiana,” Jackson testified.
Stabler was persistent, at one point during the trial sending a message through one of Jackson’s Nation of Islam security guards that questioned the singer’s faithfulness to his African-American heritage.
It was a sore point for someone who has denied he purposely lightened his skin.
By then, Jackson had turned to Burkle, the billionaire pal of former President Bill Clinton, for financial help. Burkle brought in Jesse Jackson, who’s known Michael Jackson since his Jackson 5 days, to help with the consultation.
Burkle was calling him on the cell phone during bathroom breaks, warning him not to sign anything, Michael Jackson said. Stabler wasn’t happy, Jackson said.
“[Stabler] said, ‘What’s the problem? You’re not down, you’re with the Jews now. You’re not down with blacks anymore,’” Jackson testified.
“It was unkind,” Jackson added. “It was mean. It was meanspirited. It was nasty. Simply because he couldn’t get me to sign something that he wanted me to sign.“
The next time Jackson saw Stabler “he wanted to take my head off.” And his brother Randy wasn’t too happy, either.
Randy later claimed that Jackson and his staff had run up a $700,000 bill on his American Express card during the trial, which Jackson said he would repay.
It wasn’t the first time that Stabler teamed with Randy in trying to get him to sign off on a deal, Jackson claimed.
At a meeting in a bungalow at the Neverland ranch, Jackson said he had his mother at his side when he fought off another proposal.
“And I vehemently told them, ‘No, I am not signing this,'” Jackson recalled. “And I just remember how angry, the intensity of the anger in the room. And so they marched out.”
Jackson made his comments when he was grilled by lawyers for the Hackensack, N.J., finance company that is suing the singer in Manhattan Federal Court. The firm, Prescient Acquisition, is owned by businessman Darien Dash, who claims Jackson stiffed his company out of $48 million.According to Dash’s lawyer Steven Altman, Dash was due the money for helping Jackson refinance a $272 million bank loan and secure $573 million in financing to buy out Sony’s half of the Beatles’ song catalogue that Jackson co-owned.
But Jackson claimed he’s never heard of Dash, a cousin of hip-hop impresario Damon Dash, and doesn’t remember signing any agreement.
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/world-jax-robbers-article-1.225010
The next article says that Michael blamed Randy for his financial troubles and said that he and his associate tried to pressure him to sign off on various deals and do it against the advice of other financial advisors.
I can bet whatever you like that the “other financial advisors” for sure included John Branca (in 2005 he was still on Michael’s team) and this is where from Randy Jackson’s hostility towards Branca stems. This is evidently also the reason why Branca left the team in 2006:
6/19/2007Money Matters Spark Sibling Rivalry Between Michael Jackson And Brother Randy
A legal deposition is revealing some hard feelings between Michael and Randy Jackson. The “New York Daily News” says the King of Pop is accusing his younger sibling of trying to steal money from him during his 2005 trial on child molestation charges. Michael’s allegations against Randy came to light during a sworn deposition he provided for a federal lawsuit that was supposed to go to trial this week.In transcripts obtained by the “Daily News,” Jackson blames several people for his financial troubles, including Randy, who reportedly counseled the singer on various money matters during the trial. Michael says Randy and an associate named Don Stabler tried to pressure him to sign off on various deals against the advice of other financial counselors.
Meantime, the federal lawsuit against Jackson will not be going to trial after reports of a settlement. The New Jersey finance house Prescient Capital had sued Jackson and his MJ Publishing Trust for 48-Million dollars, claiming breach of contract. The company claimed it helped the pop star secure millions of dollars to pay off his debts. The terms of the settlement were not disclosed.
I doubt that Randy Jackson wanted to steal anything from Michael. Most probably he had some ‘ideas’ on how to improve Michael’s finances. It is also clear that he took a very anti-Sony position then as it was surely his initiative to buy out Sony’s share in the Beatles catalog (for the $500mln. procured by Prescient which Michael never used but for which he had to pay millions in fees).
Whatever Randy Jackson’s motives were the results of his involvement in Michael’s business affairs were disastrous:
- Michael had to endure a long period of new litigation and depositions soon after the ordeal of the 2005 trial
- The depositions were especially painful as he was asked questions even about the “molestation” issues over which he had been acquitted already and which had nothing to do with his finances
- Michael was brought into a partnership with Fortress Investment Group which provided him extremely unfavorable terms. Let us remember their 9,5% interest rates, for example
- Michael also had to settle the $48 mln. suit with the Priscient intermediary who brought Fortress in and charged for their services a fee at the interest rate of 9% on the $500 mln. The money was meant for purchasing Sony’s share which Michael evidently did not want or need
- Michael incurred tremendous additional expenses during the 2 years of litigation with Prescient and had to pay $5mln. in settlement of the deal he said he had never seen or signed.
11. SONY
A little later the storm in a teacup regarding the “imminent sale of Michael’s share to Sony” calmed down and even Roger Friedman admitted there was no cause for worry that Sony would buy the catalog in May 2008 (or any other time):
7-12-2007
FYI: Friedman: Beatles Songs ‘Safe for Now’
I have been telling you for some time now that on May 31, 2008, Michael Jackson will lose the Beatles catalog.
Sony has the right to buy it all out from him thanks to a 2006 refinancing deal.
But sources tell me that Sony isn’t so eager to pony up the $300 to $600 million this purchase would entail. For now, at least, my sources say, “the company is happy with its passive partner. Michael isn’t bothering us and we’re not bothering him.”
Recently, Sony/ATV Music Publishing has made some excellent strategic purchases thanks to new president and financial partner Martin Bandier. They picked up the Famous Music catalog and will continue to expand in the next year.
So Jackson is safe, but this also means he can’t raise cash against the catalog anymore. He would have to go back to work to do that.
Source: MJFC / Fox News / Fox411; http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288899,00.html
The strategic purchases Sony/ATV was making were indeed excellent. While guys like Randy Jackson were creating unnecessary drama in Michael Jackson’s life and forcing him into more debt and trouble, Sony/ATV was busy buying the Viacom catalog which includes Eminem, Bjork, Shakira and others.
The deal was agreed on at the very end of May 2007:
Viacom sells Famous Music to Sony/ATV
Posted 5/30/2007 10:31 AM |
NEW YORK (AP) — Viacom Inc. said Wednesday it is selling Famous Music, a music publishing business whose catalog has more than 125,000 songs including “MoonRiver” and “Footloose,” to a unit of Sony Corp. for about $370 million.
Famous Music was founded in 1928 to publish music from movies and owns the themes to many films including “The Godfather” and “Beverly Hills Cop.” The deal includes the assumption of about $30 million in debt.
Famous Music is being acquired by Sony/ATV Music Publishing, a joint venture formed in 1995 between Sony and trusts set up by Michael Jackson. It is not part of Sony BMG Music Entertainment, a business that combines the music operations of Sony and BMG, a unit of the German media conglomerate Bertelsmann AG.
Sony/ATV Music Publishing owns or administers more than 500,000 copyrights by artists including The Beatles, Beck, Joni Mitchell and Roy Orbison.
Viacom owns cable networks such as MTV and VH1 and the Paramount movie studio. Famous Music was its only property in the music business. Famous Music’s roster of songwriters includes Shakira, Akon, Linda Perry and others.
Through its Extreme division, Famous Music also supplies recordings and musical compositions for use in television and radio advertisements, film and television productions, trailers, and major network and cable broadcast promos.
The Associated Press http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2007-05-30-2986621890_x.htm
Jackson buys Eminem rights
- Rosie Swash
- Thursday 31 May 2007
Michael Jackson now owns the rights to Eminem’s back catalogue, after his partnership company Sony/ATV purchased the publishing company Famous Music for $370 million.
Bjork, Shakira and Beck are also among the many artists whose publishing rights were sold by Viacom, of which Famous Music is a subsidiary, at auction yesterday afternoon.
The acquisition comes just months after speculation that Jackson would be forced to give up the rights to the Beatles back catalogue because he was facing bankruptcy. Jackson outbid Sir Paul McCartney in 1985 for the rights to the Beatles music at a cost of $47.5 million, but rumours that the singer has been living beyond his means were reinforced when he sold 25% of Sony/ATV back to Sony last year [WRONG. Michael never sold his 25%. Even the Guardian is unable to report correctly!].
Yesterday’s deal means Sony/ATV own the rights to over 125,000 songs, of which Eminem is one of the most high-profile and profitable. In an interesting twist, Jackson once attempted to have the video to Eminem’s songJust Lose Ittaken down because it features the rapper dressed as Jackson and later rapping the words: “Come here little kiddies on my lap / Guess who’s back with a brand new rap / And I don’t mean rap as in a new case of child investigation accusate.”
Speaking about yesterday’s acquisition, Sony/ATV CEO Martin N. Bandier said: “The Famous Music catalogue is a world-class asset filled with evergreen songs that people know and love. The depth and breadth of the catalogue is what truly makes it great.”
These events took place in Michael’s life when we thought he had a chance to finally relax after the 2005 trial. We have not touched upon other lawsuits during the same period, however even the Prescient/Fortress/Randy/Don Stabler near fiasco – in comparison with what Branca is doing now for Michael – makes us come to certain conclusions and ask questions which I initially did not intend to ask.
Isn’t all of the above a perfect example of how some people do proper business while others are keen on creating drama only?
Doesn’t this information show which advisor brought what element into Michael Jackson’s life – one of them brought stability, success and prosperity into it, while the other one a lot of mess, confusion and unnecessary losses?
Isn’t it clear to anyone unbiased that passing over the Estate into the hands of the latter person would be a disaster to say the least? Even if it were entrusted to some lawyers whom he will recommend as new executors of the Estate?
Can his judgment in choosing the right people be relied upon?
And will these new people be as dedicated to Michael Jackson as the lawyers currently working for the Estate?
I must admit that initially I was neutral to this Michael’s sibling. He looked like a nice guy and his appeal to Thomas Mesereau for help to his brother was priceless. It came just in time, saved Michael Jackson from grave injustice and should never be forgotten or underestimated. But the very same person has a very unstable temper, has a difficulty in differentiating right from wrong and adheres to very peculiar views on how to handle other people’s business affairs.
In short, if he or his protegees ever come close to Michael’s finances and assets all we will be able to say is a quick good-bye to them.
So let him stay a brother of Michael Jackson only.
And let the Estate go on with the job they are doing so well for Michael Jackson’s legacy, his children and his mother.
* * *
Vindicating Michael 
Oh, this is a big subject and will surely write about it when I am finished with one more post.
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I always had good opinon abouth Branca. In many ways. I dont see him as bad person etc. I think he and other guy will do all they can to keep Michaels will real. I dont wonder why Michael didnt leave anything to his father or siblings. I think he had lots od reasons. But please do tell me …is catalogue part that is owned by michael sold to sony or it was other kind of buissness made ? I dont undestand this part best. Thank you
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“Jackson had offers to sell his stake for $400 million — thus bailing himself out of hock. If that’s the case, then why doesn’t he do it? Responded my source, who knows Jackson well: “Because he’s crazy.” – Nan
Nan, of course Michael wasn’t crazy. We don’t know all the details of the deal offered to Michael by Koppleman/Goldman and Sachs, but from what I remember of it eventually Michael would have had to sell his share and thus leave nothing to his children. And for Michael the trouble-free future of his children was his main goal.
This is why he cut off all his siblings from his will. He didn’t have any ill feeling towards them but the family is so big that it was simply impossible for Michael to take care of them all. He focused on his children and mother instead.
If Branca and McClain had not firmly stood their ground everything Michael’s estate earned after his death could have been easily dispelled for the various needs of the big family. And I am absolutely sure that no one can be a better manager of Michael’s Estate than Branca. In matters of business he has a talent. And also integrity. In contrast to him all other advisors to Michael were a sheer disaster.
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Just rereading this article and the part Roger Friedman put out about MJ being crazy for not selling his catalog.
———-
Frankly, the only thing Bryan said yesterday that was completely accurate was in response to Mesereau’s assertion that Jackson had offers to sell his stake for $400 million — thus bailing himself out of hock.
Said Bryan: “If that’s the case, then why doesn’t he do it?”
Responded my source, who knows Jackson well: “Because he’s crazy.”
—–
why should MJ have to sell off an asset everyone is dying to take from him , because he is embroiled in a RIDICULOUS trial, that is specifically meant , imo, to destroy him , not only personally but financially as well
That isnt crazy, he saw what an opportunity this was for others to do a money grab.
Mesereau had said that he believed people were in place to walk in and take his assets .
I was watching this clip about Jackie Wilson, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb9y1PTqa4c
one of MJ heros and how the entertainment people swindled him out of everything he had..
MJ knew about all that stuff, all the older people he admired , had financial issues.
The catalog represented , imo, not only financial freedom , but the artist , finally being able to win on the business side..It was a matter of pride for him too, because he knew how many talented people were treated like chattel by the business people in entertainment.
I think Branca set it up , to protect MJ as much as he could .To me, that is why they were always trying to undermine mj and branca relationship.
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WHAT A SCENARIO to BURNING THE BURDENS><8!!! ❤
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Reblogged this on mjjjusticeproject and commented:
This is why we support Michael’s decision of executors in his Will(s) as both John Branca and John McClain have done a phenominal job of implementing the ideas Michael’s and realizing the goals of his 5yr plan.
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A very interesting article about Michael’s finances was published by Forbes. It makes a lot of things clearer. The subjects raised there were discussed in points 3 and 4 of this post, and that is why I am adding it here.
As I thought the money generated by various projects of the Estate did not go into paying off the remaining $280 ‘business loan” because it was spent on buying copyrights for new songs (under the deal with EMI as far as I understand).
This was done because more songs generate more money, so it is not really ‘spending’ and certainly not ‘squandering’ – it is investing money.
Forbes says that all personal MJ’s debts will be paid by the end of the year and only a “business loan” of $280 will remain. It may be paid out very quickly “if necessary” but at the low rate of 2,9% a year “paying back the loan quickly, in full, may not even be financially expedient—the company’s funds could be better utilized by buying up new, money-generating copyrights”.
You remember that we were wondering why the remaning debts were not paid despite so much money generated by the Estate? Now it is clear why – it was invested into buying new music catalogs!
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“I explained this previously but will try and explain it using an example this time. If you owned a company with a net worth of $1 million and you defaulted on your home mortgage which carried a first loan of $200K and second loan of $100K, the mortgage company could only sue you for the total amount of loans only i.e., $300K. The mortgage company, by law, has no legal standing to take your $1 million business and could NEVER act on your behalf or your sole representative” – Susan Joyce
Susan, you don’t have to expain to me basic things like that. I didn’t answer you because I thought you were familiar with what I had written about all this before. Now I see that you are not. So let me also explain to you a couple of things.
The overall sum which had to be paid by the Estate to AEG was in excess of $40mln according to their first financial report. This was the sum which Michael would have had to return had his contract with AEG been severed. Those millions were made up of the $6,2 advance given to Michael and production costs which were fully placed on Michael’s shoulders (which is an outrage in and of itself).
In addition to those $40mln. next comes a sort of a forecast of the events that would have followed. AEG reserved the O2 Arena for Michael and would have surely claimed compensation for their losses in connection with their arena being vacant for all the period covered by the “contract”. They would have claimed loss of anticipatory profits – for sure. And how much is that alone? One third of a billion? Half a billion? More? To get the right figure we need to know the sum AEG got from the tickets sold plus the anticipated profit from the shows including all the merchandize, releasing the film footage, etc.
One more possibility is that they could have sued him for “fraud” as regards his health and their resulting payment for the multi-million insurance policy from Lloyds. Add to it such minor things like the $150,000 monthly salary to Murray which they would have also charged to his account (multiplied by several months) as well the $100,000 monthly salary to Tohme (which was initially their responsibility, but as a result of a trick with production costs salary to Tohme also became Michael’s business) – and I think everyone understands that after adding up all that it is even impossible to calculate the resulting multi-million sum which Michael would have had to pay.
Sorry, I forgot the legal fees for the many months of the litigation process with AEG.
Inevitable as those lawsuits were, even without them AEG had full access to everything Michael had. According to their Promissory note (for the advance of $6,2 mln.) if Michael delayed payment by 5 days a major default would occur and Michael would pass to AEG everything he ever had or would have.
There are two interesting points as regards this event of default:
– it could arise in case Michael did not pay at least one monthly repayment installment. The “contract” never said a word about any monthly repayments of the advances made, however the Promissory note mentions them, but somewhat in passing. What these installments are and how are they to be paid is a huge mystery because there is no schedule of how much and on what dates they should be repaid back.
But let us suppose that the monthly repayment was to be $1mln. If Michael was unable to pay this $1mln, five days later a full default of payment was to be declared, as a result of which Michael was to pay the full $40mln.
– if Michael’s company could not pay (which of course it could not), the “contract” had a tiny piece hidden in some funny miscellaneous clause which said that AEG would have access to all Artist’s assets as an individual. This was a direct road to all other Michael’s assets, even the ATV catalog, shielded by two Trusts.
Since the catalog was well protected access to it could be made only as a result of a lawsuit. However this was no problem as the forecast above shows it.
The Promissory Note also said that as a result of a default AEG would become the full Attorney-in-fact acting on behalf of Michael’s company and enjoying full rights. Let me say it again that though the Promissiry note emphasized that the matter concerned only Michael’s company and not the Artist individually, the contract contradicted this point and said that it did concern Michael as an individual (and therefore concerned all his belongings).
There is a short piece I wrote about it in this post: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/the-aeg-contract-with-michael-jackson/. If this is not enough I can expand this subject further (if you like):
Part of the Promissory Note:
And this is where the “monthly payments required” are mentioned (to our great surprise we find them in “Prepayment” clause:
Here is a piece i also wrote about that Miscellenous clause (its point 16.3):
P.S. Susan, your other statements were answered in your message. I do it for economy of space and time.
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“Helena, if you quote from an article you should credit that journalist otherwise we think it’s your writing. You primarily stated AEG would seize control of MJ’s musical estate…., I responded secondarily following you talking about events after MJ’s death”- Susan
Susan, the above was stated in an article sent by Truth Prevail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2197337/Michael-Jackson-Leaked-emails-reveal-star-basket-case.html
My reply was:
For some reason you selected only the quote not paying attention to the context, and now demand that I should have credited the journalist who said it. Can I ask you in return to be more attentive next time? And not give me lectures on the quotes you do not like and mistakenly attribute to me?
True, I expressed this thought long ago – when I analyzed AEG’s “contract” – but this time it wasn’t me who said it.
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We can blame Murray, AEG, even Michael himself for his own death.
But I simply blame Evan Chandler, Sneddon, the Arvizo’s and the media for his death. Not for them, he would never have been on meds at all. He would still be here.
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Question: “Then explain to me what could possibly motivate his siblings to suggest such a thing.”
1. Janet Jackson told Robin Roberts in her first interview after MJ passed away that she and her siblings went to MJ’s home in Las Vegas in 2007 for an intervention but MJ’s bodyguards wouldn’t let them in
[VMJ: This is only what they thought about Michael but it isn’t proof that he was taking drugs at the time. He did take Demerol earlier though and when he did he spoke about it himself, quite openly, in that Morphine song. No one dragged this information from him, he volunteered it himself]
2. The siblings also tried an intervention with MJ at Neverland and did talk with MJ. Janet was crying during the intervention. MJ told them he was okay. If I recall correctly, it was Jermaine that told this story.
[VMJ: Whatever problem Michael had with Demerol it was over. There was no Demerol found in his system, the autopsy report found no trace of it and this is all there is to it]
3. Elizabeth Taylor arranged for MJ to go to rehab in Mexico then he left there and went to Europe. I don’t recall the time frame….I’m guessing it was the mid-1990’s.
[VMJ: Goodness gracious, you don’t even know when Michael went to a rehab! It was in November 1993, when he was in the middle of the Dangerous tour and was totally shattered by the hue and cry over the Chandlers’ lies]
4. The search warrants from Neverland revealed the many prescription bottles with other people’s names typed on them.
[VMJ: You talk again and again about the past. Michael fought his habit and managed to beat it. In the later years Michael did not take any narcotics, he was given (by doctors!) various sleeping pills and that is all]
5. A doctor in Japan said MJ wanted meds for anxiety and to be able to sleep, but the doctor wouldn’t prescribe any to him.
[VMJ: So what? If some of us are insomniacs or feel anxiety and ask doctors for sleeping pills or sedatives, is it a crime or what?]
When MJ first died, the siblings and Katherine denied MJ was ever addicted to prescription meds. In 2010, they began opening up and talking about it. Joe Jackson claimed he knew a few months prior to MJ’s passing and wanted Katherine to come with him to intervene but she wouldn’t go.
[VMJ: Katherine and the siblings didn’t know a thing about Michael. Many of them had not talked to him for years. And in your interpretation “prescription meds” sound almost like heroin, while all it means is that doctors prescribed Michael sleeping pills like they do for millions of people worldwide. Do you “intervene” when someone takes sleeping pills?]
Was MJ an addict? I don’t know because I wasn’t there or knew him personally. In my opinion, I do believe that MJ did use prescription meds at times to sleep or for stressful events, but I don’t believe he took them on a daily basis for 5, 10 or 15 years.
[VMJ: You don’t have to know someone personally to know the truth. He did take Demerol at some time (and when he did he spoke about it himself), but that was over. In the later years of his life Michael had a huge sleeping problem and doctors tried on him all sleeping pills that are available to medicine. None of them helped and he had cases when he didn’t sleep for four days running as we learned from his recently auctioned note to Lisa Marie Presley. Someone tried propofol on him and it did work. So when Michael’s insomnia became unbearable and he was in a particularly demanding situation he asked for propofol as this was the only thing that helped. Insomniacs will understand his desperation]
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September 6, 2012 2:40 pm
Helena- “If Jackson were to back out then AEG would seize control of his musical estate to recoup its losses, something the singer knew all too well.”
My response – I politely disagree – Susan Joyce
****************
Today, Sept. 7, 2012
Helena – Susan, why don’t you send your disagreement to the journalist who published this statement? It isn’t just my word only – it is a quote from an article. And we are not talking of the events after Michael’s death, we are talking of the situation when Michael was still alive.
My response – Helena, if you quote from an article you should credit that journalist otherwise we think it’s your writing. You primarily stated AEG would seize control of MJ’s musical estate…., I responded secondarily following you talking about events after MJ’s death.
Helena – AEG threatened to pull the plug and withdraw from their contract. In this case Michael was to return all the money AEG spent on producing the show (as AEG put all production costs on his shoulders).
He was also to return the advance they gave him. If he was not able to return the full amount of money immediately (not just the first instalment) AEG had the right to all assets of his company. They had the right to fully act on his behalf and be his sole representative.
My response – I explained this previously but will try and explain it using an example this time. If you owned a company with a net worth of $1 million and you defaulted on your home mortgage which carried a first loan of $200K and second loan of $100K, the mortgage company could only sue you for the total amount of loans only i.e., $300K. The mortgage company, by law, has no legal standing to take your $1 million business and could NEVER act on your behalf or your sole representative. Regardless how the AEG & MJ contract was written, it cannot overrule the law to automatically receive $1 million when the mortgage company was only financially harmed by $300K. If this was the case, everyone would be suing everyone and most people in our country would be penniless and homeless.
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And maybe everyone here has misunderstood what I was saying about Murray.What I have said before and will stick by forever is this. MICHAEL DID NOT ASK FOR THIS DRUG UNTIL SOMEONE SUGGESTED IT. He did not seek this for sleep until someone told him it was okay. He did not do it without being told by someone that it was okay. Michael Jackson was not a drug addict. There was no evidence of it at all. Then explain to me what could possibly motivate his siblings to suggest such a thing.
Amen to most of this except the parts about the siblings. I’ve seen interviews where Latoya and Jermaine have outright said Michael was not an addict. Why do you feel like the family is painting him like an addict?
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As for the medical equiptment that Murray asked for even that was wrong for what he was doing. He asked for a defibrillator and IV stands and IV access catherters and IV push syringes.All that was for a rescue attempt or for dehydration. What Michael really needed if he was going to do this was a ventilator and a plumb pump to regulate that amount of Propofol. He needed respiratory support for while he was under not a defibrillator for when he stopped breathing and his heart stopped beating.Even that looks like Murray knew he could kill him with what he was doing.
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And maybe everyone here has misunderstood what I was saying about Murray.What I have said before and will stick by forever is this. MICHAEL DID NOT ASK FOR THIS DRUG UNTIL SOMEONE SUGGESTED IT. He did not seek this for sleep until someone told him it was okay. He did not do it without being told by someone that it was okay.Michael Jackson was not a drug addict. There was no evidence of it at all. Then explain to me what could possibly motivate his siblings to suggest such a thing.
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Oh I totaly agree about Thome knowing full well what was going on. I believe that he was one of the ones that suggested it to Michael in the first place.And I will continue to stand up and shout that from the roof tops I don’t know about Randy Phillips but I know one thing that you guys have misunderstood and that is that AEG is much more than Randy Phillips.To be perfectly honest if the lawsuit was not about big money a much more probable winner of just suing the people of AEG personally would prove what the family wants to prove if they have that proof.If they left the corporation out of it then they might have a case but just how much harm would it do to Michael.
As for the family member and the Will it is true that every single Will he wrote pretty much says the same thing as the one that they say is not legal. Are they going to try to prove that he was under the influence of something ( I will never believe that) when he signed them all. All that proves is just how desperate they are to get their hand on Michael’s money and they are willing to destroy his reputation to do it. Because if you don’t see what they did as hurting Michael’s image I don’t know what it was.
Can’t wait to read a book from Mann about Michael for Gods sake. So now he is going to tell us about someone he never met too.Look out world the Jackson siblings strike again.
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Howard Mann said he got them from here and there as info to write about MJ? I doubt KJ or PPB gave them. Did someone steal them from her locked drawer maybe? Someone Jackson?Maybe to show that their only successful family member (on big scale) only wrote wills while Under the Influence ,and therefore the wills are not legally binding?
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DO yuo even remember what started the last debate here on the blog between you and the others? It was you getting angry and saying that you did not believe that the emails were leaked by the family. As it turns out they were not leaked by either but they were leaked by someone with a special interest tie to the Jackson Family. It was Howard Mann just as I said it would be. The thing that completely escapes you at this moment is that you said that the emails were probably leaked by AEG. That investigation by the court will prove just what we said that Howard Mann most probably got them from a family member.
[VMJ: Okay, okay, Lynande51, you are a genius of investigative research. How about my suggestion that you stay apart from my highly amateurish efforts?]
Perhaps my choice of word was not exactly correct when I said advocate against the family. What I meant is to advocate FOR Michael even if it is against the family or you for that matter.
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“AEG does not want (allow?) those e-mails to be used on court”.Points to who might benefit from their publication.Murray killed Michael. This death occurred under very specific circumstances,many or most the makings of AEG You must be naive to think that AEG with Thome and Randy Phillips didn´t know what was going on.They received requests for very specific medical equipment which was never delivered. Still the timeline for starting the shows was put forward..
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“ANd sometimes advocating for Michael means that we have to advocate against his family.”- Lynande51
I am not going to advocate against his family – I analyzed what I consider their mistakes concerning the Estate, and hope that one day some of them will read my arguments and probably listen to them. And if it were them who leaked the emails it was the craziest thing to do as it harms Michael more than AEG and can make these documents barred from court.
I don’t advocate against anyone at all – even AEG. All I do is analyzing their stuff and sharing with others my astonishment with what I see there. This is called stating facts, and not “advocating against”.
I also want to know what really happened to Michael in his last days and this is why I search for the truth in various directions, including Murray and AEG.
You have mentioned that AEG’s tough love had “unfortunate” timing and they also “unfortunately” listened to Murray. Since you probably regard their contract with Michael as another of those “unfortunate” instances (while I do not) I think that our positions on AEG are incompatible. My opinion about AEG is based on facts, and will not change, and any further discussion of this issue is useless.
Therefore I suggest you go your way, while I go mine. You can take with you the crowd of people residing here who also sympathize with the unfortunate AEG, leaving me with those few who think the same as I do. You could even open an AEG fan site if you want to.
Let each of us mind our own business, okay?
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ANd sometimes advocating for Michael means that we have to advocate against his family. They were around alot longer and did alot more thing to him than AEG did.
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“What amazes me is that though you call yourself an advocate of Michael Jackson you are actually not saying a single good word about Michael. What you say here is a bit about everything without beginning or end. Reading you one would never guess that you support Michael Jackson and are supposedly his “vindicator”. Frankly, I don’t even understand what you are saying.”
I think all of my comments point to the guilt of Conrad Murray which is much deeper than you know Not one time have any of my comments been anti Michael. I will agree that they are often anti you because you have no idea how many things you have gotten wrong in the past.
[VMJ: I have transcribed every day of Murray’s trial, every person’s testimony there, so what is there that I do not know? And I am not talking of anti-Michael comment from you – what is actually not there is pro-Michael comment which is generally required of an advocate]
“As regards Shelly I noticed her affection for AEG long ago, however I tolerated it until it came into direct conflict with Michael’s interests.”
This is what makes people think that you are calling us haters because we all know how you feel about them. RIght or wrong you hate them and therefore if we point out that you are wrong about something regarding them you are then calling us haters. That is not a jump that is how it appears to more than me this time.
[VMJ: You go on twisting the truth. I don’t call anyone haters. And I don’t hate anyone, at least not yet]
“As to your personal attitude towards me, the amount of insults, twisting of facts, wrong interpretation of my words, attributing to me things I never said, constant telling me that I make mistakes and even downright lies about me – all this is far more than anything I’ve ever heard from anyone at all, even Michael’s haters as my direct opponents. Two months ago you harassed me in so terrible a manner that I had to shut up the blog and had a very hard time getting on my feet again”
Helena you are the one that often more than once have twisted what was written by me even going so far as lableing us haters.
[VMJ: A lie again]
Why do we think that ? It is because knowing how you feel about AEG to say that someone has an affection for a company that you despise so much what would that make us? It is not just me this time it happens to be several of us that agree that you take things to far when you accuse us of the things that you have. You have actually implied that we somehow work for them. Everyone else saw the same thing I did this time.
[VMJ: I don’t care how many of you are pro-AEG here. My conclusion about this company is based on their ‘contract’ with Michael and nothing will change my opinion about them. The fact that some people here are pro-AEG is indisputable.]
What is funny is that you have not even addressed that I was very right about who leaked the emails. I said it was Howard Mann and he now has even taken credit for it. You now have nothing to say about that. Now you turn it around and make it about us not being good enough advocates for you.
[VMJ: Not advocates for me. Advocates for Michael. Shelly never called herself one, while you did. And the veracity of it I very much doubt now. As regards emails I am not focusing as much as you do on who did it. My opinion was and still is that the leaks are more damaging to Michael than to AEG, hence the conclusion that it is a huge provocation, possibly from their side. I do not rule this out even now. However it may be one of the Jacksons, the brainwashed ones. Time will show who did what]
I don’t know how pointing out that Murray was killing Michael everyday, and that the idea to take that medication was all his idea is somehow hurting Michael.
[VMJ: I never said it. You are twisting my words again]
My comments point at Murray and how what he was doing was actually what caused the behavior that you have wrongly attributed to being caused by how Michael felt.Michael felt the way that he did because of what Murray was doing and what the medication was doing to him.
[VMJ: Michael felt that way not only to Murray but also due to AEG. All those who saw him at rehearsals were embarassed to see how Randy Phillips and even Kenny Ortega humiliated Michael. And we are not discussing Murray at all, I stated my opinion about this person long ago]
AEG unfortunately listened to Murray when he told Kenny Ortega not to play psychiatrist. Them going to Michael and giving him the tough love speech was like I said unfortunate timing and because of all the false reports over the years about Michael’s drug use they went in there thinking that it was Klein and it was Demerol that was causing it.
[VMJ: The tough love speech was just “unfortunate timing”? AEG “unfortunately” listened to Murray? So their humiliation of Michael Jackson and the terrible terms of their contract with him were just another of those “unfortunate” instances?]
Murray reinforced that assumption by getting them to tell Michael that he could not go to Klein anymore. Then when he spoke to the police in order to cast blame in another direction he said he had no idea who Michael was seeing and in the next breath directed them to Klein.
You have always focused on how AEG made Michael feel the way he did but have never given a second thought to how the medication that Murray was pumping into him every night was making him feel that way.
[VMJ: Why do you constantly speak for me? The medication Murray was giving Michael made his system terribly unbalanced and only half an hour ago I repeated it again that Michael was gravely ill on June 19 due to Murray’s medication]
How many eveil deeds have you attributed to AEG in the past and now including this one. This whole discussion started because you said that AEG probably leaked those emails themselves to avoid using them in court. Now we find that not only was Shelly right when she said that AEG did not do it but by his own admission it wa Howard Mann that did it. Helena he could only have gotten those Bates Stamped documents from the legal evidence given to Katherine. I don’t think Katherine was in on it but given the fact that she was gone and in the company of family member it is not a leap to think one of them gave them to Mann knowing and intending that he give them to the press.
[VMJ: If you taken the trouble to read my comments you might have noticed that I did not rule out that some Jackson could leak them. But this will NOT change my overall impression of AEG. It is not based on these emails which were not a revelation to me, but ON THE DOCUEMENTS I studied in full seriousness and therefore know who AEG are. You either didn’t study the papers as you didn’t say a single word about that contract – ever! – or you did study it and simply support the other side]
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No surprises from you either. Mean is not my word, but I should definitely learn it to be able to sometimes use it.
May I suggest that you go your “right” way, while I go my “wrong” one, and our paths never cross again?
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No surprises in your last comment Helena. Whenever you are proven wrong about something you blame and accuse the other person of just about anything. If anyone read those emails that I posted in June when you were spouting how we were mean and we needed to be more like Michael they now see a common theme. That theme is that you are always right even when you are wrong and no one is exempt from being labled a hater by you just because they happen to know things that you don’t.
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Lynette,
What amazes me is that though you call yourself an advocate of Michael Jackson you are actually not saying a single good word about Michael. What you say here is a bit about everything without beginning or end. Reading you one would never guess that you support Michael Jackson and are supposedly his “vindicator”. Frankly, I don’t even understand what you are saying.
As regards Shelly I noticed her affection for AEG long ago, however I tolerated it until it came into direct conflict with Michael’s interests.
As to your personal attitude towards me, the amount of insults, twisting of facts, wrong interpretation of my words, attributing to me things I never said, constant telling me that I make mistakes and even telling downright lies about me – all this is far more than anything I’ve ever heard from anyone at all, even Michael’s haters as my direct opponents. Two months ago you harassed me in so terrible a manner that I had to shut up the blog and had a very hard time getting on my feet again.
The drama created by the Jacksons was exactly what made me return. In the spontaneous post I made I expressed my astonishment at the way some Jacksons behave. Simultaneously I hoped that they would come to their senses and realize the awful mistakes made.
I am not pro-Jackson. I simply try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and am very patient with people.
I also stand for the truth. And as regards the situation with AEG the truth is that AEG’s misconduct towards Michael is gravely underestimated. For some reason neither you, nor Shelly have ever spoken about their mistreatment of Michael and do not allow me to talk about it.
For your information – I also have the right to have an opinion of my own. I even have the right to express it in my blog. If you do not like it it will be appreciated if you do not come here at all.
After all your lies about me I have nothing to talk about with you.
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In whole what I mean is that because of the build up in his system of the various meds that Murray was giving him he started feeling sick and then the symptoms started to show. It was just a very unfortunate coincidence AEG went to Michael’s house to see what was wrong. That is all. Whether or not they were noce about it or not it was not what killed him because if it was worry then why was there an absence of the symptoms for the two days after the near miss.
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Why is it the benzos because they are a central nervous system medication so they have central nervous system reactions and that is what you are looking at when you look at those symptoms.
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Approximately a week before that date, on June 11th, they made a sort of an ultimatum to Michael. Michael was treated by his “partners” so harshly that he got extremely nervous, began losing weight and practically fell ill.
NO Helena!This is exactly what a paradoxical effect of too many mg of multiple benzodiazepines looks likeand the use of FLumazenil to bring him out of it.That is the point I am making.Everything that you credit to stress from a meeting, threat or not is merely a physical reaction to being overdosed everynight by some mad scientist.
Murray had been doing that to hi for 9 weeks before he died. Of course he is going to have a physical reaction at some time.
Murrya never stopped giving Michael his nightly formula. The two nights when Michael got better were immediately after the day that I and I am sure David Walgren believes was a near miss meaning that he almost lost MJ that night or morning of June 19th. I think he almost killed him that time and it is my medical opinion that it was MICHAEL that said no to him for the next two nights which is why he was doing better. I think Michael got scared by that and he told him no. Then comes the night of the 25th and because we only have Murray’s word for what Michael said people are thinking wrong. What if he threatened MJ that night with that recording if he did not take the medicine he was giving him. Why has it escaped everyone that Murray is a sociopath that would do jsut exactly that. Threaten him to get him to use it again because if he didn’t Murray would not have a job.Then intentionally or not he did manage to kill Michael.
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Helena Howard Mann was a business associate of Katherine Jacksons. He was the one that bought the things from Vacarro and called it the Jackson Secret Vault. Do you know who put Katherine and Mann together. It was Randy Jackson. Guess what if they were the legal documents with the bates stamps on them he could only have gotten them from her or her house.Then look back through these comments you hate and see who it was that said if it wasn’t family it was Mann and see who has been right about this up until now.
I don’t think you understand the thing with the Benzos [VMJ: I understand it all right. I transcribed each day of Murray’s trial]. Murray ordered massive amounts of them too starting on April 28th of 2009. They were in vials meant to be used in an IV injection. That is what I mean when I say that he was using them as an adjunct to the Propofol every night for 9 weeks before Michael died. In no way will I say anything about the amounts of Propofol or benzos that were given from Murray because everythinghe said was an out and out lie from beginning until the end. When you see how many vials of Benzos he ordered that is the only explaination.
I think you are being mean spirited to Shelly and anyone else that shows that the family bears equal responsibility for the stress that MJ was feeling if he was feeling stress. My line of comments deal with one thing. You are wrong when you say that Michael was nto overloaded on Benzos everynight. That was not Michael’s doing or even his request for heavens sake. [VMJ: This is exactly what I said – Lorazepam never helped Michael’s insomnia and he never asked for it. I don’t understand what this woman is talking about]] It was one hundred percent Murray’s recipe for disaster and AEG could not have thought of it plain and simple.It took a doctor to do that and believe me it was not the stress of the contract that made Michael feel the way he did. It was from Murray pushing those drugs into Michael that made him feel that way.
I for one have always said that Murray was far more culpable than most people know because you could not have thought of that particular formula. I sent several emails to the LA DA Steve Colley’s office asking for an upgrade in the charges to 2nd degree murder but the one thing that was missing for it was Murray’s intent for Michael to die. That is all that is missing to have charged him with that because the amounts of those drugs put together and his education and experience he knew or reasonably had to no that he was playing the odds with Michaels life. Nothing I have said implicates that I or anyone else think that Michael was responsible just that we realize the responsible person is behind bars.
As for AEG I said it before and I will say it again. AEG is in fact an entity it is not a person, AEG is not Randy Phillips, Paul Gongaware or Tim Liewke it is a corporation, they simply work there. Heck those people that are listed are not even the top of AEG there is an entire board of directors involved plus the Head of the board of directors.
Please start to think about something reasonably before you jump to conclusions about anyone that tries to point out the errors in you statements before you lose all of your readers when they find out how unforgiving you are to them. How many of them have you called hater in the last few days. YOU are being unreasonable.
VMJ: What errors? And whom did I call hater? I simply do not want any AEG agents here with their propaganda of AEG lies. I am really being too patient with you.
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“Murray began weening MJ off propofol on Monday and Tuesday night by giving him benzo’s. On Wednesday night benzo’s didn’t put Michael to sleep so Murray resorted to propofol also. Michael had a total of 18 mgs of benzo’s in his system which should put an elephant to sleep. This reflects what a high tolerence Michael had adapted to which proves that he had taken benzo’s in the past.” – Susan Joyce
Michael was prescribed benzos occasionally like all people suffering from insomnia are. But they never helped him and this is what he complained about to all doctors before Murray.
As to Murray he was ordering Lorazepam in big quantities since the very beginning of his orders, together with Propofol. To be able to reach the level of Lorazepam Michael had in this system Murray should have given him benzos on a regular basis.
Considering that Michael never liked it we are safe to assume that Murray fed him benzos for a very long time despite Michael’s will. And this could be the reason why he felt so terrible in the last week of his life.
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Here is an article posted by Shelly. This article will stay but Shelly will not.
Source of leaked Michael Jackson e-mails identified
By Alan Duke, CNN
September 6, 2012 — Updated 0855 GMT (1655 HKT)
Katherine Jackson: Rumors are ‘stupid’
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Howard Mann tells CNN he gave controversial documents to the Los Angeles Times
Concert promoter AEG Live accused Katherine Jackson and her lawyers of leaking sealed e-mails
Mann says none of the documents came from the Jackson’s or their lawyers
The Jacksons are suing AEG Live for wrongful death
Los Angeles (CNN) — Dramatic e-mails about Michael Jackson’s condition before his death were leaked to a reporter by a businessman who just settled a copyright lawsuit with Jackson’s estate, that businessman told CNN.
The admission by Howard Mann that he provided the controversial documents to the Los Angeles Times contradicts a claim by lawyers for concert promoter AEG Live that they have “unequivocal evidence” showing that Jackson’s mother and her lawyers leaked the e-mails.
The source of the leak is crucial to the wrongful death lawsuit filed by Katherine Jackson and the late pop star’s three children since the judge in the case ordered the documents sealed.
AEG’s lawyers filed a motion Monday asking the judge to impose tough sanctions on the Jacksons, including fines and preventing them from using the e-mails as evidence in their effort to prove the promoter contributed to Jackson’s death as he prepared for comeback concerts in 2009.
AEG did not immediately respond to CNN’s request for comment about Mann’s claim of responsibility for the leak.
“We were able to learn today that apparently Howard Mann has admitted that he was the source, and that he definitely never received any documents from Katherine, Prince, Paris, or Blanket Jackson, nor from their lawyers in the wrongful death suit against AEG,” said Jackson lawyer Kevin Boyle.
Boyle criticized AEG’s lawyers for their haste in pointing the finger at the Jacksons.
“AEG made these accusations against the Jackson family and their lawyers apparently without doing even the most rudimentary investigation,” Boyle said. “We are further disturbed that the motion for sanctions filed by AEG was given to the press before it was served on Katherine Jackson or her counsel.”
If the AEG lawyers had reached out to the Jackson lawyers earlier, they could have helped solve the mystery of the leaked documents, he said.
“AEG has known about the alleged leak since a week before the article was published,” Boyle said. “AEG never contacted the Jackson’s counsel to inquire about the article or the documents.”
The e-mails revealed the promoter for Jackson’s “This Is It” concerts expressed doubts about the star’s ability to be ready for the shows but expressed confidence in the private doctor eventually convicted in Jackson’s death.
AEG Live President Randy Phillips was responding to show director Kenny Ortega’s e-mail, which said Jackson had “strong signs of paranoia, anxiety and obsessive-like behavior” and suggesting they hire a “top Psychiatrist in to evaluate him ASAP.”
Jackson died on June 25, 2009, from what the Los Angeles County coroner ruled was an overdose of a surgical anesthetic and sedatives, drugs that Dr. Conrad Murray told police he used to help the entertainer sleep as he prepared for the concerts set to start two weeks later.
Murray was convicted of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to four years in prison last year.
Mann, who once partnered with Katherine Jackson on a book and documentary about her family, said he obtained the documents from various sources, but none of them came from the Jacksons or their lawyers.
He gave them to reporter Harriet Ryan because he wanted the story of Jackson’s death to be told, Mann said. Mann’s company settled a copyright dispute with Jackson’s estate over use of Jackson’s images this week.
Ryan, who kept the source of the documents secret in her story, did not immediately respond to CNN requests for comment on Mann’s claim that he gave them to her.
AEG lawyer Marvin Putnam went on a public relations and legal offensive against Katherine Jackson and her lawyers this week in response to Ryan’s article and the subsequent stories by other news outlets, including CNN.
“AEG believes the unequivocal evidence shows that Katherine Jackson and her attorneys leaked these documents to the press,” he said in a statement to CNN. “The documents released to the press were given to Mrs. Jackson and her attorneys — and to no one else — confidentially in discovery and subject to a court order.”
But Mann said he got the e-mails from several sources, including Jackson fans who contacted him. Some of the documents were part of discovery in other cases, including the criminal trial of Dr. Murray, he said.
Boyle, the Jackson lawyer, also told CNN that other parties had the same documents, including lawyers involved in an ongoing insurance case against AEG.
Lloyds of London seeks to void a $17.5 million policy that AEG purchased in case Jackson was not able to perform the 50 shows scheduled for London’s O2 Arena. The insurer contends AEG hid Jackson’s health problems and failed to respond to repeated requests for his medical history.
“Katherine, Prince, Paris and Blanket Jackson and their lawyers deny AEG’s allegations that we gave any protected documents to the press,” Boyle said.
The documents made public in the Los Angeles Times story are not the most damaging to AEG that were uncovered, Boyle said.
“We can assure you that we are in possession of documents that make for an extremely compelling story in the wrongful death case, and that completely support the plaintiffs’ claims,” he said.
AEG Live’s president called Jackson’s death “a terrible tragedy” in an e-mail weeks after he died, he added “but life must go on.”
“AEG will make a fortune from merch sales, ticket retention, the touring exhibition and the film/dvd,” Phillips wrote. In fact, AEG Live was allowed to sell Jackson tour merchandise and share in the profits from the documentary “This Is It,” produced from rehearsal video.
The e-mails suggest AEG Live’s president saw Jackson’s problems first hand the day the pop star was to appear at the O2 Arena to publicly announce the shows.
“MJ is locked in his room drunk and despondent,” Phillips wrote in a March 5, 2009, e-mail to AEG Live’s parent company, the paper reported. “I (am) trying to sober him up.”
“I screamed at him so loud the walls are shaking,” Phillips wrote. “He is an emotionally paralyzed mess riddled with self loathing and doubt now that it is show time.”
The promoter blamed London traffic when Jackson was 90 minutes late for the announcement that day.
“He’s as healthy as he can be — no health problems whatsoever,” Phillips told CNN two months later to refute reports Jackson’s health was threatening the concerts.
The Los Angeles Times story, however, said the e-mails indicated major doubts about Jackson’s ability to perform.
“We cannot be forced into stopping this, which MJ will try to do because he is lazy and constantly changes his mind to fit his immediate wants,” AEG Live executive Paul Gongaware e-mailed to Phillips.
Jackson’s missed rehearsals in June triggered concerns in e-mails that he was slow in learning his dance routines and would have to lip-sync on stage, the newspaper reported.
“MJ is not in shape enough yet to sing this stuff live and dance at the same time,” one e-mail from the show’s music director read, the paper reported.
A production manager wrote: “He was a basket case. Doubt is pervasive.”
A loud warning from Ortega, who worked closely with Jackson on previous tours, came in mid-June, just over a week before his death.
“It is like there are two people there. One (deep inside) trying to hold on to what he was and still can be and not wanting us to quit him, the other in this weakened and troubled state,” Ortega wrote. “I believe we need professional guidance in this matter.”
Ortega testified at Murray’s trial about his concerns about Jackson’s frail condition and missed rehearsals. It resulted in a meeting six days before Jackson’s death in which Murray assured the promoters he would have Jackson ready for rehearsals that next week.
An e-mail from Phillips after that meeting said he had confidence in Murray “who I am gaining immense respect for as I get to deal with him more.”
“This doctor is extremely successful (we check everyone out) and does not need this gig, so he (is) totally unbiased and ethical,” Phillips’ e-mail said.
The correspondence could play a role in the wrongful death lawsuit, which accuses the promoter of contributing to his death by pressuring him to prepare for the concerts despite his weak condition.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/06/showbiz/michael-jackson-leak/index.html
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– “If Jackson were to back out then AEG would seize control of his musical estate to recoup its losses, something the singer knew all too well.”
– I politely disagree – Susan Joyce
Susan, why don’t you send your disagreement to the journalist who published this statement? It isn’t just my word only – it is a quote from an article. And we are not talking of the events after Michael’s death, we are talking of the situation when Michael was still alive.
AEG threatened to pull the plug and withdraw from their contract.
In this case Michael was to return all the money AEG spent on producing the show (as AEG put all production costs on his shoulders).
He was also to return the advance they gave him.
If he was not able to return the full amount of money immediately (not just the first instalment) AEG had the right to all assets of his company. They had the right to fully act on his behalf and be his sole representative.
The production costs were enormous – AEG spent the money without any check up from Michael and just informed Michael of how much they spent.
As far as I remember the Estate paid out something like $30 or $35 mln. to AEG after Michael died. A huge share of it was production costs.
ALL PRODUCTION COSTS WERE MICHAEL’S RESPONSIBILITY according to that ‘contract’ of theirs.
However if you read the contract you won’t be able to see it. You will be able to find out this crucial point only if you compare the text of the contract with the attachment to it. But even after a very thorough comparison you won’t be able to notice it again. Because this matter is worded in a very roundabout way.
It says that the artist’s fee is X sum minus this and that and minus Production costs.
And this is ALL about this matter in all those numerous pages of their ‘contract’.
This is only an example of how their contract with Michael was made. Nothing is stated directly. You have to guess about the most fundamental things.
Contracts are not made that way. There are many other instances in that contract which could make it simply void. I think that with papers like that AEG had no right to demand anything of Michael Jackson at all.
On the other hand I am sure that Michael could have made the concerts all right if he had had enough time for rest and enjoyed more psychological comfort. He himself was interested in those shows to be a success. And they shouldn’t have made 50 of them, especially without asking him. This alone is able to drive anyone into a depression.
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t6deja6igusmjj, I agree with you. As regards Murray instead of Tohme I don’t know, but everything is possible.
Your overall assessment of the situation seems pretty logical and correct. Same as the conclusion you are making.
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just my opinion, and sorry about English, i hope you understand what i want to say.
It seems for me, that when Michael fired Thome, AEG started to look for someone, who can control Michael instead of Thome. And find Murray, who desperately needed money. Maybe they noticed him even earlier as the second choice if something would go wrong with Thome and MJ. And then the drugs started. I dont think they would leave so big money bag (what Michael was for them) all alone. Only they didnt count that Michael would start to see through their plan.
What about contract between Murray and AEG, I dont think, they would ever sign it, because it would make their connection too obvious.
It may sound too fantasy, but its a common way for most of the world to make business, especially if there is involved big money.
Jacksons seem to be just someone who have been constantly manipulated. They just are not smart enough to come up with a multiple step plan. And considering the fact, that they want to earn as much money as possible from their brother death, makes them even easier target.
As far as I have seen, everything that comes out in media, works against Jackson and therefore in favor of AEG. I dont exclude a possibility, that it was AEG who leaked those emails, so that they could say, that it was Jacksons who did it and pan them in court. The more so, if these emails were already known to the public. Emails made much more damage for Jacksons side, than AEG. If instead it were Jacksons, who leaked them, than it is even more obvious, that someone is playing with them.
What about court, I dont think, that there would come up something good from it. Jackson doesnt seem to have any evidence to go after so big corporation as AEG. Only court what is permissible, is criminal, but AEG had 3 years time to destroy all evidence. So if there wouldnt happen some miracle, AEG would come out from this situation without any damage for them.
Thank you for reading this
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“All of your information about the “riot act” conversation comes from one email from Kenny to Randy the night that Michael showed up at the rehearsals sick from Murrays overuse of the flumazenil which is an antidote to the benzos.” – Lynande51
No, it isn’t. I analyze absolutely everything that comes my way. Of course if I am given a chance to do it and no one hampers my efforts.
Here is a much more detailed report on the events on June 11-25 (from the one you provided). I made it during Murray’s trial based on Kenny Ortega’s testimony – https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/murrays-trial-begins/:
On June 19, 2009 Kenny Ortega saw Michael so unwell that it caused his concern.
“Something was going on, he was troubled. He was chilled, he appeared lost, a little incoherent… there was something wrong”. Kenny offered him food, put a blanket round him and a heater, in a room, next to him. Michael asked him “Can I sit and watch the rehearsal?”
This sounded to me like asking for a permission, though Ortega said that both of them were co-editors and co-producers and that it was Michael who “always had the final word”. Didn’t look like it judging by that question….
Ortega tried to talk to Murray on the phone but was unable to reach him. Michael didn’t rehearse that day and watched the rehearsal for under two hours, approximately an hour and fifteen minutes. Kenny had NEVER seen him like that and suggested he leave. Michael agreed.
When asked “Did you express your concern?” he said “Yes” and when asked to whom he expressed it Kenny replied he had sent an email to Randy Phillips, CEO of AEG Live promoter on June 20 at 2.04 am the same night while he was still at the facility. The email was shown to the jury and Kenny read it outloud.
Its content confirms my worst suspicions about the way Michael was treated by AEG. CNN mentioned the report once or twice but as could be expected they omitted the crucial parts like “tough love” or “now or never card” Michael had been faced with by both Ortega and Phillips some time prior to that rehearsal:
Late in the morning or early afternoon on June 20 Ortega’s assistant told him that a call had been received (from whom?) asking Ortega to attend a meeting at Michael’s home. He assumed it would be about the incident the night before.
When he arrived at Michael Jackson’s house Randy Phillips, Frank Dileo, Conrad Murray and Michael were already there. Murray was upset that Ortega hadn’t let Michael to rehearse and sent him home. He told him to stop being an amateur doctor or psychologist and told him to leave Michael’s health to him. He assured him that Michael was physically and emotionally capable to handle all his responsibilities for the show:
”He was upset that I didn’t allow Michael to rehearse the night before and that I sent him home. He said I should stop trying to be an amateur doctor and psychologist and be the director and allow Michael’s … health to him. I said it wasn’t my choice. It was Michael’s request to sit out and watch the show and I felt that was a far safer place for him to be.”
Ortega said Murray assured him, sternly, that “Michael was physically and emotionally capable of handling all of his responsibilities for the show.”
“I was shocked. Because Michael didn’t appear to me to be physically or emotionally stable, at that moment. I said to Michael, ‘Michael, please tell the doctor that’s not the way it went down & that this was something we agreed on together,’ and Michael said, ‘Yes.’ I told him I loved him. I was concerned for his health and safety. He said, I’m fine Kenny, I promise you.’ He gave me a hug.”
Ortega’s portion at that meeting lasted some 10 minutes and he left before the meeting closed. The reason for it being so brief is that he was specifically called for that purpose.
After the meeting the first rehearsal was only on Tuesday, June 23 or two days later as the show was moving to the Staples Center. The rehearsal was great, same as the rehearsal on June 24:
“He entered into rehearsal full of energy, fill of desire to work, full of enthusiasm. It was a different Michael. I asked him if he was happy and he said he was very happy. He felt like we were accomplishing the dream.”
Some of Prosecutor David Walgren’s questions were centered on the mood of Michael Jackson during those last days – which, in view of the defense’s claims that Michael “self-injected” propofol (or committed “suicide”), is very important.
The mood was great, says Ortega. Michael was excited, involved and was a full participant in all areas of production. On June 25 some stage illusions were planned and Michael was looking forward to take part in them – he loved illusions and was excited about the special apparatus for it arriving the next day.
Ortega sighed with relief when the examination by Walgren was over, however Chernoff gave him a harder time. He noted that there was not one but two meetings at Michael’s home and Ortega said that he was only aware of it. Murray was made responsible for scheduling Michael’s time as a result of the first meeting. Who gave him orders to make those schedules Ortega “has no idea of”. The first meeting came as a result of Michael missing several rehearsals and the “playing the tough love” phrase refers to the resolution of that very meeting. In between the two meetings there was a series of conversations between Ortega, Randy Phillips and Paul Gangaware. Frank Dileo was not involved.
Chernoff asked him about the June 19 rehearsal (when Michael had to be wrapped in a blanket) whether Ortega thought that he might have been on drugs and Ortega said yes.
But Chernoff also asked if Ortega remembered that it was him who read Michael “the riot act” according to Karen Faye and wondered if he indeed told her not to placate Michael. Ortega said that he was not sure of the word and then said “No”:
“Did you tell Karen Faye not to placate Michael Jackson?” – “No”. [Ortega was visibly confused].
Chernoff’s further questions were evidently an attempt to show that though Michael was Co-director of the show, his request for a Ortega’s permission to sit and watch the rehearsals runs counter to that. I fully agree that Ortega is telling us only half the truth here:
Chernoff to Ortega:
– He was the boss?
– Yes.
– It was his show?
– Yes.
– This was his time?
– Yes.
Walgren to Ortega:
– Who had the last word?
– Michael.
But if Michael was the boss why did he have to ask for Ortega’s permission not to sing and dance that day? Remember that request beginning with “Can I….?”
Closer to the end of the cross-examination Ortega said that when Michael didn’t attend the rehearsals they didn’t record them. Ortega’s said the video tapes were made at Michael’s request (so there was no need to record anything else?). The explanation is strange because if Michael needed the recordings to monitor the show he would have wanted to see its progress when he wasn’t present.
Chernoff said each tape had a date on it and since Ortega edited the film for two months while making “This is it” he should have been able to at least recall the date when they moved to the Staples Center (Ortega said he didn’t remember).
The very last piece of information from Ortega was that on June 18 Michael missed the rehearsal and had been missing rehearsals for about a week before that. That missing week was evidently the result of the first meeting when they “brought the doctor into the fold” and threatened him to pull the plug.
This makes me return to the events prior to June 19th and Ortega’s e-mail sent to Randy Phillips that night. Let us have a closer look at the timeline:
Thursday, June 18th – the rehearsal missed. If Michael was away for about a week, this should take us to June 11th or around it.
Friday, June 19th – a rehearsal at the Forum (the stage prior to the Staples Center). Michael had chills and was under a heavy stress and Ortega sent him home.
Saturday, June 20th – a meeting in Michael’s house. A riot act is read by Ortega according to Karen Faye. He didn’t confirm it though. He also sounded confused over that point and I didn’t understand what he replied.
Sunday and Monday, June 21st and 22nd there were no rehearsals as they were moving to the Staples Center. Ortega couldn’t clearly name the date when they moved there.
Tuesday, June 23 Michael appeared at the rehearsal strong, excited and determined to work.
Wednesday, June 24. Another very good rehearsal before the last day of June 25.
Ortega’s email (sent early morning June 20th to Randy Phillips) started with “now that we have brought the Doctor into the fold”. When asked what it meant Ortega explained that Murray had started creating a daily schedule for Michael so that he could attend the rehearsals. When Prosecutor asked him about ‘tough love” he somehow avoided a direct answer and the matter was dropped to my big surprise, but was resumed by Chernoff whom I didn’t expect to talk about it at all.
During cross-examination it turned out that the schedule was the result of the events a week prior to that – Michael was missing the rehearsals and “someone” asked Murray to make a schedule for him. Chernoff asked why Michael was missing the rehearsals, “Was he tired or lazy?” Ortega again avoided a direct answer (or I probably missed it) and just said that he discussed the matter with Randy and Paul Gongaware.
Though he tried not to touch upon the first meeting, he agreed that his email referred to the resolutions taken at that meeting and that things “got serious at the time about coming to the rehearsals”.
I hope things will become clearer to us if we read Ortega’s email once again:
“My concern is, now that we’ve brought the Doctor into the fold and have played the tough love, now or never card is that the Artist may be unable to rise to the occasion due to real emotional stuff”. [They have declared a sort of an ultimatum to him before that, required Murray to take care of his scheduling, but the only result of their effort was that Michael became extremely nervous and unable to work]
“He appeared quite weak and fatigued this evening. He had a visible case of the chills, was trembling, rambling and obsessing. Everything in me says that he should be psychologically evaluated”. [Ortega realises that they “overdid” it – Michael cannot work in such an atmosphere and has been paralyzed by it. A more favorable psychological climate is needed]
“If we have any chance at all to get him back in the lights it’s going to take a strong Therapist to help him get him through this as well as strong physical nurturing”. [The situation is so bad that they need to replace Murray with a much better doctor]
“I was told by our Choreographer that during the Artist’s costume fitting with his Designer tonight they noticed he’s lost more weight”. [The first time we hear it – they never noticed it before?]
“As far as I can tell there is no one taking responsibility (caring for) him on a daily basis. Where was his assistant tonight? Tonight I was feeding him, wrapping him in blankets to warm his chills, massaging his feet to calm him and calling his doctor. There were four security guards outside his door, but no one offering him a cup of hot tea”. [This is an absolutely OUTRAGEOUS situation! NO ONE was attending to Michael’s needs! Ortega even called the doctor but to no avail! There was no doctor, no help, no care, no nothing! And this in spite all that Murray’s “scheduling” and his stern replies about everything being under control!]
“Finally, it is important for everyone to know, I believe he really wants this”. [ We’ve already heard that AEG thought Michael was faking illness to avoid concerts explaining it by his ill health. Earlier they even said that was taking medicine to “make himself ill” in order to go to hospital. This is what they were thinking of Michael all along!]
“It would shatter him, break his heart if we pulled the plug”. [ So by June 19th Michael had already been threatened by Randy Phillips that AEG would pull the plug! This was that ~June 11th meeting was all about]
“He’s terribly frightened it’s all going to go away. He asked me repeatedly tonight if I was going to leave him. He was practically begging for my confidence”.[This is what I’ve saying all along. Michael feared that he would involuntarily give them a pretext to “pull the plug” and was frightened of such a possibility. It practically paralyzed him and gave him the chills].
“There still may be a chance he can rise to the occasion if we get him the help he needs”.[ Ortega realises that Michael needs help and asks Phillips to provide it. He is not sure Michael will manage but he might if they stop pressurizing him, find a doctor and give him the necessary care he needs. Probably psychological help too. And we know what reply was given by Murray and Randy Phillips as Murray’s boss!]
Everything in this email refers to the events prior to that June 19th rehearsal.
Approximately a week before that date, on June 11th, they made a sort of an ultimatum to Michael. Michael was treated by his “partners” so harshly that he got extremely nervous, began losing weight and practically fell ill.
They told him they would pull the plug and this totally shattered him.
On June 19th he was a nervous wreck. On June 20 they discussed it and no one paid attention to Ortega’s warnings about Michael need for help.
The only thing done was Murray’s prescription to Michael of Diazepam (Valium) to be taken 1/2 to 1 pill every 6 hours in order to relieve his psychological pressure (or 2-4 pills a day).
We find information about his June 20th prescription in the Coroner’s report listing all medicines found in Michael’s house.
Valium was prescribed on June 20th or the day of the meeting in Michael’s house.
This was probably the only conclusion they drew from Ortega’s frantic email message and the dramatic events prior to it.
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@Helena
I know benzos were being used along with Propofol the night Michael died, not the previous nights in these same dosages. Also, in regards to Murray the details about the amounts given, how long he left the room and so on, is HIS story.
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“The trouble with your theory about AEG Helena is that half of it is based on things put out in the public by Murray’s defense team and the drama gossips of the This Is It rehearsals.” – Lynande51
Lynande, don’t misrepresent my theory about AEG here. I base all my conclusions on 1) the contract between AEG and Michael 2) the contract between AEG and Murray 3) the legal documents attached to Joe Jackson’s suit against AEG (now dismissed as a double to Katherine’s) 4) testimonies of various witnesses at the trial 5) and to a much lesser degree on newspaper reports and some little grains of information which very rarely come from those who saw Michael with their own eyes, spoke to him and know his side of the story
And what information do you base your opinions on? On the official AEG’s position?
You constanly deprecate me and my efforts to reach for the truth in this blog. Okay, this shows the agenda you have.
But when was the last time you said a good word about Michael?
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“I hate to disagree with anyone here but the last thing that Murray was ever doing was weaning Michael off of Propofol with Ativan, Versed and oral Valium.” – Lynande51
All of us perfectly know that Murray is a liar and there is no need to pretend that anyone here believes what he is saying. But it is a plain fact that he gave Michael huge dozes of Lorazepam too, which was discussed on a massive scale during Murray’s trial.
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“Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t remember it being mentioned that Murray gave benzos every night but propofol. Unlike propofol, benzos don’t leave the body as quickly so there would have been much larger quantities in his autopsy if this were the case.I refuse to base any conclusion on Murray’s words. “
You are wrong. One of the major strategies of Murray’s defense was their intention to prove that Michael died of a doze of Lorazepam and that he actually self-administered it. There was a huge discussion of it. They completely failed to prove it.
And the story about benzos was absolutely not only Murray’s words.
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“By the way, if what AEG was so awful, why did they chose to work with them.” – Shelly
This sounds like, “If the Chandlers and Arvizos were so awful why was Michael Jackson friends with them?” or “If Bashir was so awful why did Michael agree to make a documentary with him?”
Because some people are snakes, that’s why.
* * *
For the past three years you have not said a single word of reproach towards AEG though their mistreatment of Michael is obvious.
You have not answered a single of my questions and comments on the essence of the problem – the right (or actually absence of the right) of AEG to demand that Michael should perform at every rehearsal, not to mention all other issues of that dubious contract of theirs and their overall behavior towards him.
I first realized that you represented AEG when you started spamming the comments section each time I wrote a serious comment about AEG. You made en masse quotes from the 2005 transcripts which had nothing to do with AEG thus shifting my comment lower and lower in the comments list seen on the screen. When my comment disappeared from view you stopped quoting.
Now you have dropped all your covers and are acting here like a full-time AEG agent.
You have intentionally put this “dispute” about emails in a post about Randy Jackson so that it stays where you (or AEG) think it belongs, and not in a special post about those emails which I would have naturally made if you had not intentionally distracted me from the job.
You keep me busy commenting on your non-stop advocacy statements of AEG which are essentially spam as you are saying the same thing again and again, without answering any of my crucial questions.
You have not said a single word of support for Michael Jackson.
This way you showed that you not only represent AEG here, but are totally incapable of promoting objective views about Michael.
You have started promoting the image of Michael Jackson as a drug-addict which he wasn’t.
I never expected you to be a supporter of Michael Jackson, but now you are proving yourself an enemy of his.
Therefore you have no place to be here and will be banned.
All your previous comments in this blog will come with a note that you represent AEG’s views.
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I guess the emails were really the worst that the Jacksons had against AEG.
—
The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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@ lyn
I don’t think it was you I addressed about the addiction. I went through the exact same thing with my computer – I had a lot of info about Michael on my hard drive and some bastards broke in my house and stole it.
Murray exacerbated Michael’s insomnia with his use of propofol as well because this causes unconsciousness not sleep. Even if Michael made the request he hadnt slept all night, was in a panic, dehydrated and dellusional – why would Murray listen to him anyway? This was his condition at the time, this was not an addict trying to get a fix. When we look at everything surrounding this, it does appear like AEG has a portion of the blame.
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“This family needs to stop now.”
What do you mean, the lawsuit? I don’t think she really had the possibility to stop it now.
if you are speaking about leaking stuff to the media you are right but I don’t think it will happen, they were probably doing that years before he died.
—
The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Shelly so they know without a doubt that the documents contained were from one of the family or the family’s lawyers because of what was leaked.
The article written was skewed to because some of the ones from Kenny and Murray were used in the trial.
If Katherine doesn’t fire her attorney that did this she is running the risk of those kids getting sued. This family needs to stop now.
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Tatum my information about the benzos used as an adjunt is from the records of the orders for them. He started ordering large quantities of IV injectable Vesed and Ativan in April.
Yes sometimes in large quantities of benzo use there is a paradoxical effect. That would be restlessness, increased anxiety, sleeplessness ( which is exactly what Michael was exhibiting when he no longer reacted properly to them).I have been looking for a full list of the drugs ordered from Applied Pharmacy. I had it on my old computer but I don’t have it anymore because it was stolen.
If someone finds it somewhere it will show that the intention was not to wean him off a drug that, like I said, does not have the ability to become physically addictive but to adjunct his use of the Propofol. Murray in fact only exaccerbated the insomnia with his use of the benzos he did nothing to help Michael sleep. Michael by all accounts of the amounts purchased had not had natural sleep in almost two months because of Murray’s lethal cocktail.
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Someone made a comment about Michael having a high tolerance and an addiction to benzos. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t remember it being mentioned that Murray gave benzos every night but propofol. Unlike propofol, benzos don’t leave the body as quickly so there would have been much larger quantities in his autopsy if this were the case.
A large tolerance is a stepping stone to an addiction (not an addiction), but then again when Benzodiazepines are mixed in this way it can sometimes cause a paradoxical reaction as well. I refuse to base any conclusion on Murray’s words. The man still maintains that he did not kill Michael, and that he did nothing wrong.
Let’s ignore the contracts and all the technical details, AEG held a meeting days before Michael died about business, not health. AEG knew Murray was onboard and he did request certain things from them. I don’t fully blame AEG for Michael’s death but they need to own up to their part in this tragedy too.
Another thing I noticed about some in this blog is that we are so quick to play the “you’re not from the United States” card; this is a debate about ethics and things that were clearly outlined in the contract.
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—
The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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And the one that believes Murray’s version of events is in fact you so it would seem.
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If fact what he would have needed weaning from would have been the benzos not the propofol overdose resulting from Murray’s gross neglect. I have two Masters Degrees in nursing and one of them is in critical care nursing believe me I have used Propofol myself in the ICU and I do know what I am talking about. I never pull rank on people but in your case I will make an exception.
And I agree with aldebranredstar some of the insulting things that you are saying to us who dare to correct your misinformation is bordering on insanity. With all due respect what I am tired of is a secretary that thinks she knows more about medicine and US law than I do.
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I hate to disagree with anyone here but the lastthing that Murray was ever doing was weaning Michael off of Propofol with Ativan, Versed and oral Valium.
First and foremost the information about weaning comes from Murray as this was part of his police statemen. You do not have to be weaned off a drug that does not have the brain metabolism to become physically addictive. He would have had to be weaned off the benzo that Murray was using nightly since he ordered them on April 28th. He was using them as an adjunct to the Propofol to make the sleep deeper.
When Michael was sick on June 19th 2009 that was when Kenny Ortega wrote to Randy Phillips about his condition. It was in fact around 2 am that he wrote the email to Randy and then it was Murray that scolded Kenny the next day at the meeting that they had. At an earlier meeting they had 2-3 weeks prior Kenny was not there. That is when we have the supposed “riot act” conversation with Michael and that is when they tell Michael that he had to stop seeing Klein. So much for Michael beign afraid of what they said after that because he saw Klein a total of 6 times in June.
What Murray did was take portions of one conversation and portions of another conversaton and put them together. All of your information about the “riot act” conversation comes from one email from Kenny to Randy the night that Michael showed up at the rehearsals sick from Murrays overuse of the flumazenil which is an antidote to the benzos. That was the near miss that David Walgren said he wanted to ask Murray about if he ever had the chance.
The trouble with your theory about AEG Helena is that half of it is based on things put out in the public by Murray’s defense team and the drama gossips of the This Is It rehearsals.
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“If Jackson were to back out then AEG would seize control of his musical estate to recoup its losses, something the singer knew all too well.”
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I politely disagree. The first step AEG took to recoup their losses from their investment in TII was to sell the rehearsal tapes for $50 million. Michael was half owner of those tapes. Michael knew he was in heavy debt already with Mijac and his ATV catalogue, so in his mind he may have felt AEG would just be on the list of the other creditor’s that were after him. AEG could only be reimbursed what they had paid out to date in production and advances to Michael. If MJ’s musical estate (ATV and Mijac) together were worth say…..$800 million and Michael owed AEG a total of $100K, that is all AEG could collect. AEG would never own any of Michael’s musical estate.
Murray began weening MJ off propofol on Monday and Tuesday night by giving him benzo’s. On Wednesday night benzo’s didn’t put Michael to sleep so Murray resorted to propofol also. Michael had a total of 18 mgs of benzo’s in his system which should put an elephant to sleep. This reflects what a high tolerence Michael had adapted to which proves that he had taken benzo’s in the past.
Here’s a good interview with Frank Dileo and he explains how Tohme had scheduled Michael’s concerts close together and when Frank arrived he changed the schedule to give Michael more breaks inbetween concerts. Kathy Jorrie also testified that the concerts would last until the end of Sept. and there would be a 3 month break period before they started again to the second leg of the tour. Here’s Frank:
http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/news/newsPage.cgi?news07696m01
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Helena –
The list of medical supplies that Murray requested from AEG are listed in paragraph 3.3 of the Independent Contractor’s Agreement between Michael and Murray with AEG’s signature required. He requested a CPR unit, saline, cath’s, needles, and gurney.
Kathy Jorrie also testified during trial that Murray asked her to edit the I.C.A. by replacing the word “nurse” to medical assistant (doctor). The reason Murray gave to do this was this person could serve as his backup if he was tired and unable to care for MJ.
Here are the links to Kathy Jorrie’s testimony if you want to hear her speak:
Day 2, Part 3 – Kathy Jorrie
At 14:10 Jorrie explains CM telling her he wants to change contract to medical assist. (Dr) instead of nurse.
Day 2, Part 6 – Kathy Jorrie
At 7:05, Jorrie references Para. 3.3 in Independent Contractor Agreement the supplies CM needs in London. They include a CPR unit, saline, cath’s, needles and gurney.
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At this point I am pretty aware of your convictions that AEG is entirely and solely responsible for Michael’s death and your reasons. Since your mind is immoveably made up, there is no point in continuing the debate as far as the central conclusions you have drawn. The upcoming court case, in which KJ and PPB’s lawyers battle it out with AEG is where these ideas wil be found credible or not.
I do agree that you have berated and generally insulted anyone who has questioned the reasons on which you base your conclusions. This sentence is particularly appalling:
“A few days after the Riot Act Jackson died in the hands of the villain (who deceived everyone), but it doesn’t matter.”
I don’t know how you can accuse me, or anyone posting here, of taking the position that Michael’s death doesn’t matter. This is bordering on outright insanity.
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VMJ: All I’ve heard about Michael from some people here is that he was a drug-addict and that’s it. None of these “fans” or even Michael’s “advocates” show a single trace of sympathy for the man. As regards AEG please go and read their contract first, and only after that we can resume the discussion.
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I forgot the manager too. Dileo book him for more concerts and lot the Citadel lawsuit.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Any 50 years old man who has not tour for 12 years would be a nervous wreck. It’s normal, what isn’t issu having your family negociating and pressuring you to do more shows.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Who wouldn’t be a wreck?
You have, in your right mind, minimal chances of successfully providing 50 shows without a hitch. And you know your’re truly not up to it, so there’s a greater chance you’re going to balls it up, or actually die on that stage. But the 100% guarantee is, if you pull out, your life is well and truly over…everything you’ve fought for and accomplished is gone. You’ve ruined not only your life, but damaged your children’s lives as well.
Can you blame Michael for being a “basket case” in that situation?
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Nobody ever said that his sleep problems were not linked to the worrying. It was but it’s linked à lot more to what happened to hi
during his last years. You believe the contact was final, do you know what that man? He had his whole family, mother included, to break that deal for their own personnel gain. Who do you think did more damages to him
By the way, if what AEG was so awful, why did they chose to work with them.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Truth Prevail, this article has only one new thought – something I told everyone all along:
This was the biggest reason why Michael could not fall asleep that night. He kept saying to Murray that he could not miss the rehearsal as AEG would withdraw from the deal. They faced him with an ultimatum and he was really desperate.
I like one of the comments on this article:
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Hey everyone i just wanted to ask have you seen this?
Sorry for bringing it here just want to know your thought’s
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2197337/Michael-Jackson-Leaked-emails-reveal-star-basket-case.html
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“I do believe he had been using benzo’s because it was stated in court and a friend of mine who has been a rehab counselor said the doses and various benzo’s given by Murray the morning MJ died should have put him to sleep immediately. Since they didn’t, it proved how much of a tolerance he had built up in his system.”
Yes, the tolerance was there, but all of you have a very short memory.
It was Murray who was “weaning Michael off” propofol by giving him tons of benzodiazepines. Michael never wanted that Lorazepam. He knew that propofol was the only medication working for him, and had to take Lorazepam only because Murray forced him to.
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“Lynande, myself, aldebaran, people on other fan board are talking about that side.”
Since there is still no explanation what “other side” this crowd of people is talking about (though they firmly side by it) let me make a try and explain it myself.
The “other side” is evidently the following one:
– Murray is a villain who deceived everyone including AEG.
– AEG did not know that he was giving to Michael tons of propofol.
– AEF did not know that Murray was trying to wean Michael off propofol and was replacing it with tons of Lorazepam and other benzodiazepines
– AEG did not even know that Michael had a sleeping problem
– Because they never asked why Murray was staying every night in Michael’s home
– They just thought that he was lazy
– So they read a Riot act to him demanding that he attends every rehearsal and told Murray to take care of it
– The fact that AEG did not have the right to force him to attend every rehearsal does not matter
– The fact that they did not have a contract with Murray and could not boss him about does not matter either
– The fact that the artist could not sleep due to all the worry does not matter – all the more so.
– They forbade anyone even to talk about professional psychological help.
– For them it was “critical” (quoting Randy Phillips) not to act psychologists and not to render this help to Jackson
– They themselves were not ready for the shows (which were to start in 2 weeks’ time) as there were no costumes, no equipment, no 3D video, etc., but it does not matter
– They were short of time as they started production only in April and changed the date of the shows from July 26 to two weeks earlier than they planned (in the contract) but it does not matter either
– A few days after the Riot Act Jackson died in the hands of the villain (who deceived everyone), but it doesn’t matter.
– Because the profit is still there.
– It is business, you know.
– And even Dr. Shafer said in some comment that he was a drug addict.
– So who cares?
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Helena – I didn’t save a copy of the medical supplies that Murray requested from AEG. I will look for it on the internet. If I recall, it was listed in one of the emails Murray sent the morning MJ died or it was from Kathy Jorrie. It will take me awhile to find it but I promise to come back here and post it today.
Lynande51 – I’m not sure if you were addressing me to watch TII. If so, yes I did watch it. Michael looked and acted exhausted to me but I wasn’t sure if he was holding back deliberately to not overly exhert himself and save it for the 02 show. I didn’t think he looked skinny. I do believe he had been using benzo’s because it was stated in court and a friend of mine who has been a rehab counselor said the doses and various benzo’s given by Murray the morning MJ died should have put him to sleep immediately. Since they didn’t, it proved how much of a tolerance he had built up in his system.
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The camera’s were used during rehearsals because as we saw in TII, MJ would review the outtakes. MJ did not need to be at rehearsals everyday except the last 2 to 3 weeks. Travis Payne would go to MJ’s home everyday and rehearse with him. After all the routines were learned by the dancer’s is when MJ was needed to finalize everything.
AEG wouldn’t release their own emails to the public since it would not be beneficial to them. The emails made AEG and MJ both look bad equally. Every attorney knows that breaching confidential documents per court orders will involve sanctions and destroy the reputation of the attorney. They were released by someone who only saw one side of the story which they thought by blackening AEG it would benefit Katherine and AEG not being paid the insurance money. That person did not consider how the emails made Michael appear to the public.
If I had to guess who released the emails I would finger Perry Sanders. Why?
1. When the RRJJ gang’s hate letter to the executor’s was released to the media, the FedEx enveloped attached in that letter link proved by the tracking # of being sent and received at Perry Sander’s office in Colorado.
2. When Katherine was declared “missing” Perry Sanders was supporting this M.I.A., yet the minute she lost guardianship, Perry flip-flopped addressing her “kidnapping” excuse. He completely reversed his opinion within hours.
3. Perry Sanders recently joined Katherine’s attorneys, Panish, Boyle and Maxwell in her AEG wrongful deathsuit. Now we have released AEG emails. Coincidence? He seems to be attached to the Jackson controversary. He is also very arrogant in his statements regarding negotiating the Estate vs Mann settlement.
Harriet Ryan stated in her L.A. Times exclusive article on Sept. 2, that she received the emails “last week”. Last week would have been when Katherine was in Gary, Indiana and she arrived via RV, motorhome. Since they drove in the RV to Gary, they would have to depart Calabasas 2 days prior to the Gary events. If Katherine was aware of the emails being revealed to the public, she will never admit it. Trent and the bodyguards went to Gary also, so the Calabasas house would have been empty and locked up. If Katherine and Sanders were the only two that received copies of the emails for evidence, that leaves one person that could have contacted the L.A. Times during that time span.
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Yes Murray was very clever in covering up his use of propofol on MJ which shows that he knew what he was doing from the beginning.
Helena Dr. Adams was used by Murray in his statement to the police to say that someone else “showed” him how to use propofol and to point in any other direction than himself. He wanted to make it look from the beginning like he was some poor victim of Michael’s demands and yet it was proven in court that he is actually csdertified in the use of propofol. That was a lie. Dr. Adams said that he saw MJ one or two times in an oral surgeons office. Then he got a phone call from Murray to do the shows in London. Yes they were going to use his license to purchase the propofol.
The reason they are asking for the emails to be left out is because the public has heard them now. There were 250 emails and they only leaked about 3-4. To me it looks like they are being more considerate of Michael’s privacy than his family is. The family, especially Randy just don’t care that much about Michael unless it somehow benefits them monetarily.I have one question for you have you ever watched This Is It because I think you should. Everything that they say about Michael jsutis not true. The effects that they talk about are a direct result of the medications that Murray was pumping into Michael on a nightly basis not from anything AEG did.
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“All the supplies Murray listed could be used for dehydration, fainting, high blood pressure, etc. Murray was very clever is listing the supplies he needed which would not reveal his use of propofol but could also be used for a propofol patient.”
Susan, could you please provide us a source to see where those supplies were listed by Murray?
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Murray supplied his list of supplies needed for London to AEG to purchase. AEG did not purchase them before MJ died because Murray did not have a signed contract with AEG at that point in time to validate with AEG’s accounting dept. The medical supplies were to be used in London and AEG would most likely purchase them there rather than pay to ship them overseas. All the supplies Murray listed could be used for dehydration, fainting, high blood pressure, etc. Murray was very clever is listing the supplies he needed which would not reveal his use of propofol but could also be used for a propofol patient. Murray would have to be reimbursed via Michael for his propofol purchases or deduct it from his $150K monthly salary.
Murray used used a credit card to pay for the propofol he purchased from Tim Lopez at Allied Pharmacy. The detectives used the credit card receipts in Allied’s records to track the ship to address to Nichole Alverez. This was explained in the search warrant.
I’m guessing that Murray needed Dr. Adams in London because Dr. Adams would be able to purchase propofol legally as an anesthesiologist.
MJ and Blanket were meeting with Steve Wynn and Randy Phillips in Las Vegas in 2007 for lunches at the Wynn Resorts.
The Estate is opening an MJ Museum in Las Vegas May 23, 2013 per Branca. It will be located inside the Mandalay Bay Resort. Construction began in January 2012 for the permanent MJ show inside Mandalay Bay.
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“Lynande, myself, aldebaran, people on other fan board are talking about that side.”
I see that there are many of you.
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AEG has a very small part in MJ’s death. Théy are not the reason why hé asked for Propofol (Walgren’s word). Don’t forget what the Jacksons did during that same period.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Lynande, myself, aldebaran, people on other fan board are talking about that side.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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“The only thing it said is they wanted it to be barred from the trial because it was leaked to the media.” – Shelly
This is exactly what I said and which you considered wrong for some reason.
I am still waiting for you to state another side of the story which “I am completely missing” according to your words.
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By the way those emails were already tainted before thé article. As I said there is nothing new in that article.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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First, MJ had a drug problem when he died, it’s not me who said it, it’s Dr Shaffer who said it in an interview after the trial when he was asked about the benzo.
There is nothing wrong with the article I posted. The only thing it said is they wanted it to be barred from the trial because it was leaked to the media. Don’t forget that théy are the one giving the Jacksons the evidence against them.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Why is it wrong? The article which you yourself posted here, says:
“In addition to monetary sanctions, AEG wants evidentiary sanctions, too. They’re asking the court to prevent the Jacksons from using the leaked emails as evidence in the future–that they’re essentially tainted.”
So AEG does not want those emails to be used in court. And I have to repeat it – this was probably the whole idea of it from the start.
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“Stop making assumption about people. We are just trying to show you that there is another side to that story that you are completely missing.”
What is the other side of the story which I am completely missing? State it.
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By the way, I am not slandering MJ. He had a drug problem in the past and he had benzo problem when he died because of Murray.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
VMJ: That’s the point of it – he had a drug problem in the past but not at the time of his death. He had overcome his addiction. However you are evidently trying to make Michael out a drug addict which is totally incompatible with what I think of him.
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“Now AEG wants those e-mails not to be used in court. This was probably the whole idea of it from the start of it.”
Wrong, those emails are part of the lawsuit. There is gag order in place and it’s the Estate who asked for it.
Nobody is fighting for a AEG. Stop making assumption about people. We are just trying to show you that there is another side to that story that you are completely missing.
By the way, if there were any evidence that AEG knew about the Propofol and forced MJ to take it then that would be manslaughter.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Interesting how Murray suddenly becomes an unreliable source when it comes to information like the above, but is very well listened to when he tells real lies.
Now there really is a misunderstanding from something because I have never thought one word of truth came from that mans mouth and you are twisting what I wrote to suit your own purposes. I have never believed that Murray was capable of a single word of truth which was the point I WAS TRYING TO MAKE ALL ALONG. It was you that was using his information to make your own assumtions. You know there was more information in the news surrounding the trial than what came out in the testimony . Maybe you should try reading about it and stop pretending your thoughts and
feelings are some kind of expert opinion on everything because they aren’t. No I am not sorry for writing this to you either. I have sat and read what you wrote to anyone that was trying to make you see that there is another side to the story and you have done nothing but belittle and berate them.There are things that you know nothing about and the world of medicine and pharmaceuticals in the United States is one of them. Then the other might just be US law becaue you have made some real big mistakes in that one.
Also you should stop with your accusation about anyone that disagrees with you is some kind of enemy.It makes you look like Bonnie Cox.
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VMJ: I see that you are your usual nasty self. And when there are no more arguments you turn personal again. Nothing new under the sun.
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http://muzikfactorytwo.blogspot.com/2011/06/more-than-2-cameras-were-used-to-film.html
re the cameras and the intentions to use the film.
If there were more than 2 cameras then there will be even more questions to AEG.
This text says that Sony did not want to disclose the footage, and this I understand – they paid $60mln for it and now were requested to show it for free, but the mere fact that there were more than 2 cameras tells the tale to us. Recording the rehearsals with several cameras could be done only for fulfilling a plan to make a feature film out of it.
If Michael had known of those plans he wouldn’t have worn all that shabby clothing on stage.
He did not know.
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“If AEG knew that Michael was receiving propofol, if AEG hired and controlled Murray in order to give Michael propofol, if AEG prepared a list of medical supplies on their own, how come NONE of this came out at the Conrad Murray trial?” – aldebaranredstar
How come? I also wondered how come Chernoff kept asking those questions but each of it was immediately blocked by David Walgren. It was done in accordance with the earlier order of the judge not to involve AEG into Murray’s case.
This matter is covered in my posts about Murray’s trial. In one of them I wrote the following:
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http://muzikfactorytwo.blogspot.com/2011/06/more-than-2-cameras-were-used-to-film.html
re the cameras and the intentions to use the film.
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No lawyer would advise a client to release sealed discovery documents and still retain a law license. They would be risking their careers, their reputation, everything. I think the person most likely behind the leaks is Randy Jackson, who is said to be the one who saw his mother 4 or 5 times a week at one point and also is suspected of pushing her to file the suit vs. AEG when KJ publicly said she would not do so. Randy is also a central figure in the letter re the Estate and the executors.
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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4520080/Michael-Jackson-execs-bragged-we-will-make-a-fortune-after-singers-death.html
Rodrigo, the article is very biased and negative to Michael but one thing is important.
Quote: “AEG will make a fortune from merch sales, ticket retention, the touring exhibition and the film/dvd.”
Well, ALL OF IT was in AEG’s contract with Michael Jackson. The mere contradiction between AEG thinking that “he could not make it” and simultaneously selling tickets for extra 40 concerts shows the dark side of the matter. In good and professional legal hands it could even turn into a claim to commit a fraud upon the customers of those tickets.
And the fact that they shot every Michael Jackson’s move with two cameras also makes you wonder. Why two cameras? It is different from Michael’s usual practice to make recording material of the rehearsal. They say that he often had rehearsals recorded (in order to see the result), but this is done by one camera and no footage of previous rehearsals we’ve seen is comparable in quality to what we see here. It almost looks like an intention to turn it into a proper feature film but only presented as some “working materials” never meant for public view.
Is this another reason why AEG demanded that Michael attend all the rehearsals? They wanted to squeeze everything out of him and record it? Make the most of it now before something happened to him? Sheer exploitation with no regard for the performer and the one which they probably never had the right to demand at all?
The contract also left me with the impression that the footage should be Michael’s property and not theirs. However they sold it for $60 mln. and reserved for themselves the right to have a share in the profits generated by showing the film.
Oh, there is so much to see when you look at that contract!
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If Janet is sensible and decent why did she try and take the children from their home, take their passports and their cell phones? Why is she now banned from the house? Why did she send her security guards to the Calabasas home at 3 am, saying they were to take over, that the previous security team was fired, and her guards asked where the children go to school? Does that sound sensible and decent to you? Janet’s behavior in continuing to fight the executors–that doesn’t sound sensible either.
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“as I told you it would happen AEG Live has filed two motions in Los Angeles Superior Court against the family of Michael Jackson. The motions are a response to the leaking of emails in the Jackson family’s wrongful death suit against AEG to the Los Angeles Times. AEG wants monetary sanctions and they want to make sure everything concerning Michael Jackson’s health and other personal information is sealed.”
This sounds to me like a huge provocation. It would be ridiculous to think that Katherine could leak anything herself. And the timing shows that her “kidnapping” was no accident. Lynande’s supposition was probably correct – they could have arranged it in order to obtain those documents.
However I doubt that Michael’s siblings were able to devise such a devilish plan. If they in their simplicity, blind trust in some “well-wishers”, wrong understanding of the situation and possibly greed too, went for that plan – well, then they will have to face the music for it.
But I am more than sure that someone else also put a hand to it. Some lawyers must have advised them on this course of action (to dispute the will for example) and some financial advisors must have forced on them a false conclusion that the Estate is robbing them (and that is why they demanded their resignation).
I tend to think that someone misguided these people by wrong and probably even malicious advice. The reason I think that way is because of Janet Jackson who also signed that notorious letter. She looks like a sensible and decent person to me – though probably not a very smart one – so if she went for it, it could be only due to grave misconceptions on her part.
Now AEG wants those e-mails not to be used in court. This was probably the whole idea of it from the start of it.
It would be interesting to see what the judge decides and compare it with the way they treated Michael Jackson.
When Michael Jackson’s trial was in preparation the media was discussing all prosecution’s findings absolutely freely and without any restraint. Michael’s defense team made numerous statements about the illegal nature of those leaks and the need to investigate them, but no one cared.
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“Everybody here is talking about that lawsuit.”
I don’t see “everybody” here. All I see is that you and Lynande51 are fighting for AEG tooth and nail.
You keep talking about Katherine’s lawsuit while I am not. The moment I read it a year or more ago I said it pointblank that its focus is misplaced and is too limited. AEG’s mistreatment of Michael Jackson started much earlier – with the “contract” they signed (or not signed?) with him. And this is where the focus should be.
“AEG’s role in MJ’s is at worst during 2 years period only a very small part in his life. His drug problem didn’t start and were not caused by AEG.”
You are slandering Michael. Michael did NOT have a drug problem. He had a SLEEPING problem. And no matter what sleeping problems he had before he could still cope with them when he was not subjected to a grave psychological pressure.
The essence of the problem is – DID AEG HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXERT THIS PRESSURE ON MICHAEL?
In my opinion they did not, because NOWHERE IN THE CONTRACT there is a stipulation that he should attend every rehearsal. For all we know he could have rehearsed at home – at the time which was suitable to him – and he could have sat just looking when attending the rehearsals.
Let me I remind everybody that Michael was a co-director of the show as per Ortega’s testimony.
Ortega said that it was Michael who had the final say in everything concerning the show.
And this is in stark contrast with AEG’s demands that he should attend every rehearsal.
To put it simply IT WAS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS.
They could complain only if he did not provide a first-class performance during the show, but not during the rehearsal.
This is the conclusion coming from AEG’s ‘contract’ with Michael. And this is why it should also have a place in that lawsuit.
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“The rest of that story came from MURRAY who is not able to utter a single truth sorry.” – Lynande51
Telling of Michael’s wishes to have another doctor is absolutely not in the interests of Murray, nevertheless he did say that Michael wanted a proper anesthesiologist and the doctor agreed, but Murray never contacted him again (the implication is that Murray did not want to share money with him).
Interesting how Murray suddenly becomes an unreliable source when it comes to information like the above, but is very well listened to when he tells real lies.
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“you still didn’t prove that AEG knew about the propofol and that they forced Murray on MJ and that they forced MJ to take the Propofol.”
I am not here to prove all that. I am here to tell the truth about the way AEG horrendously mistreated Michael and I form my conclusions from facts – the contract and people’s testimonies at Murray’s trial.
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If AEG knew that Michael was receiving propofol, if AEG hired and controlled Murray in order to give Michael propofol, if AEG prepared a list of medical supplies on their own, how come NONE of this came out at the Conrad Murray trial? It would seem if Murray’s lawyers had gotten any idea that they could implicate AEG, they would have done so.
I do NOT condone or turn a blind eye to what AEG did, but I do NOT think they knew about the propofol. I think they were ruthless businessmen who were trying to get maximum benefit for themselves, and only Kenny Ortega seemed to have any genuine caring for Michael. However, in my opinion, Michael should have been protected by lawyers and managers. Instead, he had Tohme, a person who wants to take credit and get paid for arranging deals that were very bad deals for Michael.
It is a terrible idea to make deals in the entertainment business without a good lawyer or manager to protect your interests. Michael made a very poor deal with Bashir without having a lawyer there to protect him. In essence, he gave Bashir carte blanche–he had no right of prior approval before release. One could say this began his undoing, leading to the trial and so on. Michael even wrote about this in the song ‘Money.” The ones who smile the most can be the biggest back stabbers.
About the contract, I do not think it was a real contract but rather a letter of intent. I think Michael got Branca involved at the last minute to help him negotiate a better arrangement. I agree the contract as it was set up by AEG, with Michael shouldering production costs, was terrible. He needed a better team to stand up for him. Who was there at the ‘riot act’ to tell AEG to back off? Who was there at the riot act to defend him as a great artist and not someone to be told what to do? It was not Murray. But such a person should have been there for him.
AEG should not be asked to protect the artist to the extent of knowing what they did not know, namely, the risks to his health that were taking place. In a moral world, yes, but in the world of entertainment business that is not their responsibility. The responsibility falls on the representatives of the artist, who demand the best deal for theit client. And it falls especially on his doctor, who was there every night.
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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4520080/Michael-Jackson-execs-bragged-we-will-make-a-fortune-after-singers-death.html
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So in 2007 they talked about various projects and she was with and in the room just how bad could they have been at the time. Michael always did want to develop Neverland and make movies that was always his dream.To open it up like a real resort and then live somewhere else. If I didn’t know better I would swear that all the lawsuits that the Estate has gone for point to them getting back his belongings and maybe just maybe opening up Neverland and a Michael Jackson museum? I don’t know anything it just looks like they are very selective in their lawsuits and that is what they seem to be going after are the things that belong to him.
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According to Bain they started in 2007
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Wait a minute the family seemed to know what was in the interrogatory so who knows which member released them after looking at them.
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“Actually AEG and Michael started talking in November of 2008 and Michael died in June of 2009.”
I believe Bain said they started talking in 2007.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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@Shelly
So true.
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“In the meantime, we’ve all watched the press as the Jackson family has made ever-more-wild accusations against everyone involved in Michael Jackson’s life— except themselves.”
I really like that part, it’s so true.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Then they will have to explain in court who was able to obtain them to leak them. Probably Howard Mann.Anyone want to put odds on it?
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Alan Duke said on twitter that the Jacksons were not the sources. Wait and see.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Hi Shelly I was just going to post this article myself. Here is the link to it. It seems we were right about the family.
http://www.showbiz411.com/2012/09/04/michael-jackson-aegs-lawyers-file-motion-for-monetary-sanctions-against-jackson-family
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Exclusive: as I told you it would happen AEG Live has filed two motions in Los Angeles Superior Court against the family of Michael Jackson. The motions are a response to the leaking of emails in the Jackson family’s wrongful death suit against AEG to the Los Angeles Times. AEG wants monetary sanctions and they want to make sure everything
concerning Michael Jackson’s health and other personal information is sealed.
There had been a protective order prior to this, blocking any release of information that AEG had turned over to the Jackson side during the case. Now that that’s been violated, AEG wants the court to fine the Jacksons at least $50,000 and to investigate how it happened. They also want everything sealed including testimony from Kenny Ortega, producer of the “This Is It” concerts. The court date for hearing both motions is October 24th.
In addition to monetary sanctions, AEG wants evidentiary sanctions, too. They’re asking the court to prevent the Jacksons from using the leaked emails as evidence in the future–that they’re essentially tainted. If the judge rules in AEG’s favor, the Jacksons would essentially have done themselves in.
On Sunday, September 2, 2012, the Los Angeles Times published a misleading and inaccurate article about AEG’s supposed role in Michael Jackson’s life and death. This article was based on an incomplete set of highly confidential documents leaked to the press despite the fact that a court had ordered that they not be disclosed. As such, the documents were taken horrendously out of context and were calculated to be as damaging to AEG and as misleading as possible.
This is from AEG:
“AEG believes the unequivocal evidence shows that Katherine Jackson and her attorneys leaked these documents to the press. The documents released to the press were given to Mrs. Jackson and her attorneys—and to no one else—confidentially in discovery and subject to a court order. Accordingly, AEG has today filed a motion for sanctions against Mrs. Jackson and her counsel for this unlawful leak.
AEG was asked to comment on the article and to provide documents in its defense that would tell a different and more complete story. AEG, however, was unwilling to violate the court’s order in its defense. Many of the documents and other sources that support AEG’s position had also been designated as confidential by third-party witnesses in Katherine Jackson’s lawsuit against AEG. These witnesses trusted that their materials had been provided in confidence, that their confidentiality would be respected, and that only the court could order the materials’ release. AEG could not and would not violate those witnesses’ rights by turning their documents over to the press without their permission.
Even without those documents, however, the story as written shows that Katherine Jackson’s claims against AEG are simply not true. The story acknowledges, for instance, that Dr. Conrad Murray was Michael Jackson’s long-term physician, and that it was Michael Jackson who demanded to bring him on tour. The story also acknowledges that no agreement with Dr. Murray was ever signed, and that Dr. Murray was never paid by AEG.
The story also acknowledges, albeit obliquely, that even after Michael Jackson appeared ill on June 19, 2012, both Dr. Murray and Michael Jackson himself repeatedly insisted that Michael Jackson was fine, healthy, and eager to perform the concerts. And again, as the story acknowledges and the film This Is It demonstrated, Michael Jackson backed up that claim by performing brilliantly at the next two rehearsals. AEG could not, and did not, cancel its agreement with Mr. Jackson, a respected performing artist who insisted he was ready and willing to perform, simply because he’d been ill one night.
Given all this, one might wonder why Mrs. Jackson or her counsel would choose to leak these documents. After all, their publication hurts her son’s memory and her grandchildren more than anyone else. Unfortunately, the reason plaintiffs chose this course is transparent—plaintiffs know they cannot win on the law and are losing control over the case. After months of discovery, plaintiffs now know what we have known all along – there is nothing to support their claims. Defendants did not hire Dr. Murray nor were they responsible for the death of Michael Jackson. In the meantime, we’ve all watched the press as the Jackson family has made ever-more-wild accusations against everyone involved in Michael Jackson’s life— except themselves.
We look forward to telling the full, complete and accurate account of what actually happened, when the materials that were unlawfully leaked to the press can be put in context and the full story can legally be told. Until that time, defendants will continue to abide by their ethical obligations and the orders of the court.”
http://www.showbiz411.com/2012/09/04/michael-jackson-aegs-lawyers-file-for-monetary-evidentiary-sanctions-against-jackson-family
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Actually AEG and Michael started talking in November of 2008 and Michael died in June of 2009.
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“It is you who try to fit me into the narrow subject of that lawsuit. And I am talking about AEG and its role in Michael’s life.
And I realize perfectly well that with so much pressure from AEG’s helpers only God can help me go on telling the truth about them to the people.
Good night.”
Everybody here is talking about that lawsuit. AEG’s role in MJ’s is at worst during 2 years period only a very small part in his life. His drug problem didn’t start and were not caused by AEG.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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And he knew Dr. David Adams even longer. Why do you think he wanted a professional anesthesiologist to attend to his needs? Probably because he didn’t believe Murray, saw that he was dancing attendance to AEG, and wanted to stay alive?
Helena Dr.David Adams was the one that MURRAY said showed him how to administer propofol in a cosmentologist office. He has vehemently denied this and said that the only time that he saw Michael was during an oral surgery. The rest of that story came from MURRAY who is not able to utter a single truth sorry.
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“I am neither prosecution, nor an investigator. I am simply analysing things. And the analysis points to them knowing about propofol.”
Wrong, the only thing it shows is they never asked question. It’s only your personal opinion they knew about that not a fact.
“Why do you think he wanted a professional anesthesiologist to attend to his needs?”
Just to stay safe. Now with all of that, you still didn’t prove that AEG knew about the propofol and that they forced Murray on MJ and that they forced MJ to take the Propofol.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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“Wrong we are talking about the lawsuit.”
It is you who try to fit me into the narrow subject of that lawsuit. And I am talking about AEG and its role in Michael’s life.
And I realize perfectly well that with so much pressure from AEG’s helpers only God can help me go on telling the truth about them to the people.
Good night.
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Clearly you don’t know just how regulated the medical community in practice is here. Here they have lot numbers on all the anesthisias and controlled substances so they can be tracked from the pharmaceutical company to the distibiting pharmacy to the hospital pharmacy to the operating room where they are used and which patient is goes into.The last place those lot numbers could be tracked to was Nicolle Alverez’s apartment which is the address that Murray gave for his “clinic”. That proves that the had intent to divert them from the pharmacy to somewhere they were not supposed to be.
That said it was thirteen thousand dollars for just that for two months. Tim Lopez charged it to one of GCA clinic, Murray;s clinic. I don’t know if he ever even got paid for the propofol that he sent to Murray.Don’t you think he would have had that added into the cost for medications in order for AEG to pay for it. My guess is he was going to try to get it “under the table” so to speak how I haven’t figured out for sure becaue of the controls in the UK.
Helena I don’t have to be on anyone’s side other than Michael’s to advocate for the right thing whether you agree with me or not. I am able to think for myself and I have and I happen to think that the AEG contract was not what killed Michael.It was in fact a greedy selfish man that was allowed a medical license at one point in his life.
As for the beginning of the conversation that started all this I just don’t think it was AEG that leaked the emails and that article as much as said it was the family that did it so my money is on Randy he is always the one that wants to make the most drama.
As for the page that you showed me it was attached to the lawsuit and it was done by Joe’s lawyer just like Sony did in their lawsuit against Mann. For your information I do know what I am talking about I just don’t see why I have to agree with you about every matter in order not to be belittled. And I don’t know that I didn’t comment on your articles about AEG before but I can tell you that during the trial I was on Twitter not here on the blog as much. I think if you look I probably did.
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“All of that doesn’t prove that they knew. They should have questions yes, but you have 0 evidence that they knew.”
I am neither prosecution, nor an investigator. I am simply analysing things. And the analysis points to them knowing about propofol.
“MJ knew Murray for years before that. Who do you think told MJ that he would ok doing that?”
And he knew Dr. David Adams even longer. Why do you think he wanted a professional anesthesiologist to attend to his needs? Probably because he didn’t believe Murray, saw that he was dancing attendance to AEG, and wanted to stay alive?
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Over here you are wrong. That contract is a complete outrage.
And the manner in which AEG treated Michael Jackson is a complete outrage too.
And all production costs put on his shoulders are a complete outrage. It is part of a promoter’s job to invest their money in the project or procure financing through other investors. Over here AEG did nothing except providing the Arena.
And adding 40 more concerts to the agreed 10 without asking the performer is a total outrage.
Especially if they thought that he would never be able to make them.
This way it is not only an outrage towards the performer. It is also an outrage to those who have bought the tickets. It is almost like knowing that there will be no concerts, but still collecting money in the hope that … well… they will keep them as memorabilia of what never takes place. I’ve read that this is what indeed happened – many kept those tickets and AEG did not have to recompense them.
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“I am not so much after those who are spreading this gossip and even do not rule out that it could be some Jacksons. I am discussing what AEG did (and is still doing) to Michael. It is you and Shelly who try to turn the conversation into the direction of the “gossip thing”. Gossiping isn’t my style.”
Wrong we are talking about the lawsuit.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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“There is secondary evidence that they knew about it – it is clear from their mentioning the CPR equipment, needles, saline, etc. The CPR equipment is not something for routine use – it is used for resuscitating a patient (bringing him back to life)”
All of that doesn’t prove that they knew. They should have questions yes, but you have 0 evidence that they knew. As for Murray, why would they chose him over an European doctor who would be less expensive than him?
MJ knew Murray for years before that. Who do you think told MJ that he would ok doing that?
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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If you stop misleading people I will stop speaking about it. An unsigned contract is not a zero as you wrongfully think. It is an important evidence of the intentions of one party towards another party. It is a statement of their goals and means to achieve these goals. If it were a zero and meant nothing AEG would not have fought tooth and nail not to show it to Katherine Jackson. It was only by court order that they had to.
“Shelly is right because when this lawsuit goes to trial we will find out just exactly who it is that has been spreading all the gossip about Michael and I bet you anything it was not anyone tied to AEG or the Estate.” – Lynande51
I am not so much after those who are spreading this gossip and even do not rule out that it could be some Jacksons. I am discussing what AEG did (and is still doing) to Michael. It is you and Shelly who try to turn the conversation into the direction of the “gossip thing”. Gossiping isn’t my style.
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“And why should we be LESS angry with AEG than with all the people mentioned above?”
Because what is in that contract can’t be compared to what they did.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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And why should we be LESS angry with AEG than with all the people mentioned above?
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“Because there is no evidence that they knew about the Propofol”
There is secondary evidence that they knew about it – it is clear from their mentioning the CPR equipment, needles, saline, etc. The CPR equipment is not something for routine use – it is used for resuscitating a patient (bringing him back to life):
It is also interesting that Kathy Jorrie, the lawyer for AEG, had to admit under much pressure from Chernoff that before drafting the contract she received a list of the equipment required for Michael Jackson from AEG (and not from Murray). So it was not even Murray who was ordering that equipment, but AEG!
By the way, evidence is such a thing which can be discovered once you look for it. I wonder if anyone took the trouble to do it in this case.
“and they hired Murray because MJ wanted him”
Following your phrase it is AEG’s side of the story. But if Michael wanted him so much I personally do not understand why he didn’t put his signature under Murray’s contract and why he wanted another doctor, Dr. David Adams, a professional anesthesiologist, to join him on the tour. The doctor agreed and sent Murray a message that he wanted to be on board, but since then he heard no more from either MJ or Murray.
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“OF COURSE Murray’s gross negligence makes him guilty like hell, but why should he be the only one to answer here? AEG has its part in Michael Jackson’s death too as is clear from their own contract with Murray, so why are you, Lynande51, so vehement in defending AEG?”
Because there is no evidence that they knew about the Propofol and they hired Murray because MJ wanted him.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Yes, that comment about Murray shows how much Phillips did NOT know about Murray.
The contract also lists a series of situations that would cause termination of the contract, and one of them is the failure to provide the licenses.
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The list clearly states “Medical equipment, Supplies, Professional expenses”. Why should Murray charge all the expenses to his clinic if he has a chance to get the money from AEG? Murray was practically bankrupt.
Joe Jackson’s lawsuit said about it:
So he was unable to pay $1,103 to his child but would pay $13,000 for propofol???
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“It turns out that AEG was to cover expenses on medical equipment and supplies for the sum of $8000 a month.”
You left out the “Professional Expenses” part of that category. We do not know the breakdown–there are 3 items covered in the total.
You seem to be suggesting that AEG knew about the nightly propofol. To my knowledge there is no evidence of this.
You say you cannot respect anyone who ‘supports’ AEG–but is it supporting AEG to take the view that others are responsible as well as AEG, such as Tohme, Murray, and others who put undue pressure/stress on Michael at that time?
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“I notice that the contract with Murray and AEG says Murray presents himself as a ‘licensed cardiologist”–is that accurate? I thought he was not Board Certified in Cardiology. Does anyone know?”
As far as I remember he was not certified. It seems that they believed his word for it.
You may also notice that AEG requires Murray to present proof of his licences within two weeks from the date of the Agreement, or AFTER they hire him for Michael Jackson.
Considering how accurage and demanding AEG executives are in their own business affairs it is surprising (to say the very least) that they hired a doctor about whom they knew nothing and did not even see his licences before contract signing.
Incidentally in those recently reported emails Randy Phillips says:
“This doctor is extremely successful (we check everyone out) and does not need this gig so he [is] totally unbiased and ethical,” Phillips wrote.
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Murray was charging the Propofol, Ativan, Versed and all of his supplies to his clinic. I once figured out what it cost for Propofol for the 100 ml vials that he ordered. It is about $100 for on vial and he ordered 130 100 ml vial and several others so just for the propofol it was $13000 for just the 100 ml vial that he ordered not icluding the 20 ml vials and the Ativan and Versed and the IV catheters and saline and Flmazenil which he ordered in bulk quantities too. That is not on the list that Joe’s lawyer made and gave to the court.
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Death released Michael Jackson from his contract. But AEG is still very much here.
Really? In the same way the Jacksons could probably sue AEG for its breach of oral agreement with Murray – not supplying him with the equipment, a nurse, not paying him, etc. – all of which resulted in the death of his patient.
OF COURSE Murray’s gross negligence makes him guilty like hell, but why should he be the only one to answer here? AEG has its part in Michael Jackson’s death too as is clear from their own contract with Murray, so why are you, Lynande51, so vehement in defending AEG?
Because you are with them too?
Is this why you never criticised AEG when I was writing post after post about it?
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I notice that the contract with Murray and AEG says Murray presents himself as a ‘licensed cardiologist”–is that accurate? I thought he was not Board Certified in Cardiology. Does anyone know?
Helena, I can tell you are in a rage with AEG, and you have your reasons, which you state eloquently, for what they did to Michael. What I am saying is that they were ignorant about the nightly propofol. They had no idea. It was kept from them. What they saw re Michael’s physical and emotional state was troubling b/c they had the goal of getting the show up. Unfortunately, they did not understand why he was deteriorating, losing weight, unfocused. The nightly propofol wreaked havoc on Michael’s body and mind. For one thing, you are not supposed to have a full stomach when you take an anaesthetic, so this in itself would lead to weight loss. Kenny Ortega had the right idea–get professional help, but that route was not taken. Murray is obviously a major con man and has duped many, including Michael, with his bs. Unfortunately and tragically, the powers that be at AEG went along with putting confidence in Murray, the most unreliable, immoral person.
I do not expect you to stop hating AEG, but they did not know about the propofol and they were in the dark as to what was going on as a result. They acted without full knowledge, and their actions made things worse (the riot act).
It seems we are reliving the Conrad Murray trial.
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This is true. But this is only half true. Joe Jackson’s lawsuit against Murray (now dismissed) had an interesting document attached to it.
It was a list of the expenses to be covered by AEG in their cooperation with Murray.
It turns out that AEG was to cover expenses on medical equipment and supplies for the sum of $8000 a month. So it was highly unlikely that AEG did not know about the drugs Murray was buying. The fact that the contract was not signed does not matter here – it is their intentions and how much they knew of the propofol that we are analysing here:
Now we know that:
– their contract of May 1, 2009 stipulated the provision of CPR “cardio pulmonary resuscitation unit (“CMR Machine”) and a “qualified medical assistant” employing “saline, catheters, needles and other mutually approved medical equipment, necessary for the services”. The CPR equipment is not an everyday thermometer, so this alone makes one think that AEG could know about propofol.
We also know that:
– AEG was to cover Murray’s expenses on all medical supplies. This is understandable – Murray had a limited budget of $3300 a month, and even this budget was gone when he quit his job in his clinic and took his assignment with Michael Jackson. Considering that he didn’t have any of his own money (AEG did not pay him for 2 months), the question is:
WHO PAID FOR THE MEDICAL SUPPLIES THEN?
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In reference to the Murray agreement that you started talking about with the riot act. There is such a thing as an ORAL agreement here in the US. That is when Murray made the agreement to take over Michael’s schedule and make sure he was at the rehearsals on time.
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Murray’s unsigned by AEG and Michael’s contract shows that Michael had a right to refuse. The producers obligation was monetary.
Could you explain why the AEG contract caused Michael any more stress than any other stressful situation that he lived through? Because I think that is what you are saying. Why should we be any more angry at AEG than we are at the Arvizo’s, Sneddon, Diane Dimond, Maureen Orth and the Chandler just to name a few. I have a right to my opinion that it was not the Michael asked for Murray but it was Murray that made Michael ask for him and he wanted to get paid very well for it to.
Stop saying that I am misleading people because an unsigned contract is just that an unsigned contract not worth the paper it is printed on.
Shelly is right because when this lawsuit goes to trial we will find out just exactly who it is that has been spreading all the gossip about Michael and I bet you anything it was not anyone tied to AEG or the Estate.
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You are misguiding people as regards the time when AEG gave those instructions to Murray. As per Ortega’s testimony it was approximately a week before the Riot Act.
Ortega described two meetings with Murray. At one of them they instructed Murray to ensure Michael’s attendance of the rehearsals (this was evidently in line with their contract with Murray, requiring him to fulfil the Producer’s requests).
And at the second meeting, when even Ortega was worried about Michael, Murray told him (following Randy Phillips words) that he should not play the amateur psychologist or psychiatrist.
Let me remind everyone reading these lines that the contract between AEG and Michael Jackson DID NOT HAVE A CLAUSE REQUIRING HIM TO ATTEND THE REHEARSALS.
Michael Jackson was obliged to produce a first-class performance only during the show, but not at the rehearsals.
It is only in case Michael Jackson poorly performed in concert that AEG had the right to make claims against him.
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“[Murray’s] part of the agreement was to assure that Michael was at the rehearsals and at the shows. The largest part of which was to insure that he was safe and healthy.” – Lynande51
Firstly, there was no such point in the agreement as you see from page 2 of Murray’s contract with AEG (Responsibilities of Murray), and secondly, he did not fulfil “the duty of insuring that he was safe and healthy”.
When Kenny Ortega wrote a worried letter to Randy Phillips the night he sent Michael home (June 20) he said that Murray was not answering the phone and there was nobody there to give Michael a cup of tea. In reply to those concerns he received from Conrad Murray a rebuttal that he should stop playing an amateur psychologist and leave Michael’s health to him:
Incidentally, from those emails mentioned recently we find out that it was actually Randy Phillips instructions and Murray was simply repeating Phillips words:
“It is critical that neither you, me or anyone around this show become amateur psychiatrists or physicians,” Phillips wrote.
So who was Murray listening to – Michael Jackson or Randy Phillips?
Instead of “insuring that he was safe and healthy” THEY READ THE RIOT ACT TO MICHAEL on June 20, 2009.
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Contract law in the US. Here is a link.
http://corporate.findlaw.com/business-operations/contracts-law.html
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The good part of that lawsuit is we might learn who told all those crazies stories about MJ ‘s drug addition to Friedman before MJ died .
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Helena the contract with Murray was not signed by either AEG reps or Michael ever. It was actually signed by Murray the night of Michael’s death. Yet another distraction from what he was doing.
The days that Michael showed up and was upset emotionally and physically ill, were in fact before they read him the “riot act”.That meeting was on June 20th.The days that you are speaking of were June 18th and 19th. That reaction was in response to the medication that Murray was giving him. He showed up at the rehearsals complaining of being cold, having the chills, not being able to focus and was emotionally labile because of the medication that Murray was giving him.No one seem to know this or even take this into consideration. Not the family, not his friends and none of the fans seem to even consider that possibility. WHY?
As I said before there were many times throughout his life that Michael was under unbelievable stress and he did not use any medication for sleep. He is on record several times saying that it was hard forhim to sleep on tour because of the adrenaline and in the past the time zone jumping that he was doing. That started when he was very small from staying up late to rehearse or to perform because a persons circadian rhythms are not set until you are about 8-10 years old. From there he started touring the world at a young age as well. It was not just psychological reason for him not to be able to sleep there were many physiological reasons as well. He was a life long insomniac.
That does not mean that Murray had any right to take on the treatment that he did. He was his doctor and he had a legal and a moral obligation not to do what he did. Doctors are asked every day to give things they shouldn’t and the majority of them don’t. Murray was in the deal for Murray and had no respect for Michael, his Children or anyone else for that matter. Just think of the things he said and did to Michael. Why do we think what AEG might have said to Michael was any worse than what Murray did when you think of that recording.
Do you know that the reason that Katherines lawsuit has so many errors in it is because it was based on gossip? And guess who the gossip was. Karen Faye. The one that also told the fan community that Michael was onyl 106 pound at the time of his death among other things.
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You are misguiding people. We are not discussing the validity of this contract now. We are discussing the validity of this contract then, when Michael was alive. And there are many doubts that it was. And if the contract was not valid AEG had no right to claim anything at all.
You are misguiding people again. No, it was not. There was no such point in Murray’s contract. However there is a point that AEG is to provide the CPR equipment since the beginning of the Term (the Term started on May 1, 2009)
Page 1:
The contract with Murray also said that the Doctor was to provided Services requested by the Producer (and not Michael Jackson)! AEG was also to pay for the nursing assistant to be selected by Murray and approved by AEG:
Page2:
Michael Jackson could say that he was refusing the “services” of Murray, but Murray could be fired only by the Producer:
Page 3:
And independent doctor will not provide “services” and will not listen to “requests” from anyone – his sole responsibility is to take care of his patient.
The confidential clause of the agreement between AEG and Murray is so confidential that it will last forever, even when the Term of the contract is over.
And in his lawsuit Joe Jackson claimed that the initial variant of the contract did not stipulate Michael’s signature under the contract:
Page 4:
Pge 5:
It is interesting that the date when Michael Jackson was to put his signature under Murray’s contract was JUNE 24, 2009:
Page 6:
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I guess everyone is in it. The Jacksons are lots more responsible for what happened to him.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
VMJ: Over here yes, everyone discussing with me the AEG contract is “in it”.
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In what?
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“It is not my summize that says that Murray was giving Michael Propofol every night for at least two months before he died.It was David Walgren and Debra Brazil.” -Lynande
Murray had been giving Michael propofol for two months before he died on June 25 – which covers May and June. Murray was hired on May 1, 2009 and for two months after that his contract was not signed.
And you said it in a totally different way. You said that Murray had given Michael propofol for two months before AEG even considered him as a doctor. Please do not distort the truth.
“I also just reread Katherine Jackson’s original complaint and it has nothing to do with the contract.It says that AEG forced Murray on Michael.”
Are we discussing Katherine’s lawsuit (which has a lot of flaws in it) or are we discussing the people who terribly mistreated Michael, read riot acts to him and were a reason for his awful psychological state? And if Katherine’s suit does not have anything to do with the AEG contract is it reason enough for us not to discuss this shameful document?
So you are in it too?
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“I think we should focus on the AEG vs. KJ and PPB lawsuit, the leaked emails, and not the contract between MJ and AEG” – aldebaranredstar
The contract AEG prepared for Michael Jackson is the worst document I have ever seen – from the point of view of its horrendous terms and dubious validity of some of its clauses. It is a monument of shame AEG has erected for itself with their own hands. Not talking about it would be like doing gravest injustice to Michael Jackson.
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“I hope the discussion stays respectful of people’s comments even tho’ there may be disagreements.”
You are asking for the impossible. I cannot be respectful towards those who support the company which treated Michael with disrespect, scorn and arrogance. Who humiliated him beyond any possible measure and who turned his last days on earth into an utter misery. The man whose little finger they are not worthy of.
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The contract with AEG stopped being valid or invalid for that matter the day that Michael died. That is contract law because he could not be held responsible for the shows that were not going to happen after he died. That contract is a moot point. It is not like they are holding the Estate liable for the contract by insisting that they deliver the Sony/ ATV catalogue. No court anywhere would hold him in breach of that contract.
The contract in question is Murray’s contract ( it was never signed by Michael or AEG only Murray). No matter if he agreed through oral agreement or in a written contract his part of the agreement was to assure that Michael was at the rehearsals and at the shows. The largest part of which was to insure that he was safe and healthy. He was the one that agreed supposedly in the meeting on June 20th, 2009 to assure that Michael got to the rehearsals at the time because that is what AEG and Kenny Ortega were concerned about. He took over Michael’s schedule per Kenny Ortega’s testimony.
However Conrad Murray knew that he was performing an illegal and dangerous act when he was infusing Michael with Propofol every night, thus making it a strong possibility that Michael would die or at least suffer an overdose that would render him incapable of completing his contractual obligations. Almost every action he took prior to and immediately following Michael’s death proves it.
He illegally ordered the Propofol and the Benzodiazepines from Applied Pharmacy. This is not a regular drug store like Walgreens down the street. This is a specialized pharmacy that provides Intravenous medications to hospitals and clinics you buy it in bulk to use on many different patients, not one, and you don’t tell the pharmacist that you have a clinic where you don’t. That is just the tip of the iceberg of lies that man told.
He did not disclose to AEG or Michael that there was that dangerous possibility and in fact misinformed Michael about the hazards involved in what he was doing per Michael’s statement to Cherilyn Lee. Who knows what he might have told Michael if Michael had in fact told him what Cherilyn Lee had said to him. That is something that only Dr. Murray can answer now and I don’t expect at this time that he will ever tell the truth. He is incapable of it because everything he did before and even now after his conviction is all about Conrad Murray.
Needless to say there is nothing about the contract with AEG now or after Michael’s death that even mattered because his death released him from that contract. The people that should actually be suing Murray for Breach of Oral agreement are in fact AEG which is a kind of kick in the teeth.
I will make no excuse for Randy Phillips and think he is just like any other man in the corporate world, he is an asshole. But so is Randy Jackson so I guess they are even in that. I will say this though, Randy Phillips is a business man and had a working business relationship with Michael. Randy is his brother and Michael should be able to expect more from him, not this mess he creates all the time.
And once again I will say that Michael not being able to sleep because of the contract is not quite right. He is heard in many interviews saying that he has trouble sleeping when he was on tour because of the arenaline rush from the performances. If it the way they were talking to him added stress to his life I still say that a contract with collateral would have been nothing in comparison to the stress of the 2005 trial. He couldn’t sleep then either but he did not go out and find a doctor to give him Propofol at night. That said that particualr remedy must have been presented to him after that trial andI still think it was presented by Thome and Murray. Sorry if I have an unpopular opinion.
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All the Jackson’s are vultures. They said that people kept Michael away from them? Michael tried keeping himself away from them since he left Encino.
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“I also think, that Jacksons can simply be manipulated. Of course, not everyone from this family have Michael’s best interest in their mind, but they are not smart enough to come up with this plan all alone”
NO DOUBT ABOUT IT
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“What do you think calling Branca a murderer during the last 3 years.”
I think of them the same as I think of all those fans who have been saying it for the past three years too – that they are not smart enough.
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I am pretty sure the contract with Murray was backdated so that he would have been paid for ‘work’ he already had done prior to the actual signing of the contract, which of course ever happened–so his contract did go back to earlier months.
I read the complaint filed by KJ in her suit with AEG. There are errors in it, such as stating she is the Guardian Ad Litem and getting dates wrong, for ex. the date of missed rehearsal, the ‘riot act.’ However, what struck me later after reading another website was that she named the children as part of her complaint; she is specifically asking damages for emotional distress due to Prince seeing his father in the bedroom due to Murray calling him to come up the stairs. How is AEG responsible for Murray calling Prince to come up the stairs? And the problem is it opens the children up to these depositions.
Personally, I think we should focus on the AEG vs. KJ and PPB lawsuit, the leaked emails, and not the contract between MJ and AEG, which contract has as far as I know not been shown to be valid in court and I question the relevance to our discussions.
Helena, I can see there are disagreements here but I do greatly admire and respect your work and your efforts to vindicate Michael, so I hope the discussion stays respectful of people’s comments even tho’ there may be disagreements.
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VMJ: The contract AEG prepared for Michael Jackson is the worst document I have ever seen – from the point of view of its horrendous terms and dubious validity of some of its clauses. It is a monument of shame AEG has erected for itself with their own hands. Not talking about it would be a grave injustice to Michael Jackson.
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Thanks, lyande51, for the info re the settlement just announced.
Helena, I did read the information in that post about the contract. “VMJ: When asking questions about Tohme, etc. you sound like you’ve never read this blog’s column about AEG: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/category/aeg-the-horrible/“–and I even made some comments at the time I read it.
I am wondering why you made that comment, which actually seems to suggest I am uninformed, simply b/c I asked why Tohme didn’t do more to protect MJ. Apparently, he didn’t even have his own lawyer, only Tohme’s lawyer. One can ask why MJ’s manager who arranged the deal with AEG doesn’t share some of the responsibility for a lousy contract, one that may not even stand up in court.
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And one last thing about the contract with Murray: His employment was to start in London on the tour not in Michael’s bedroom with 15 liters of Propofol ordered starting on April 6th, 2009. Not to mention the Versed, the Ativan, and the Valium. Murray took it upon himself and promoted himself to Michael remember? He brought his girlfriend/instrument to introduce her to Michael in February. He was the one that was controlling Michael’s medical regimen right up to his diet. He is responsible for Michael’s death it is that simple. For the record because of what Michael said to Cherilyn Lee I fully belielve that it was Murray that told him it was safe to do what he did.Maybe even Thome Thome because if everyone remembers he first promoted himself as Dr. Thome Thome. I also believe that when friends talk about Michael using Neal Ratner in 1997 for the HIStory tour it was not Propofol that he was using but some other medication. That is just my opinion but no one knows for sure what it was except Neal Ratner and that information first surfaced thanks to LIsa Marie who thought it was Morphine or Demerol.
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Right there wasn’t because everything that was taken into evidence by the Prosecution was on that Motion to Return and they asked for and got the DNA test result from all of it. So if the underwear were Michael’s big deal they were his underwear. Obviously the other things that were taken by them did not have his DNA on them or the notes that meant absolutely nothing about the Rubber Head Club. That whole thing was ridiculous but what is even more so is that Katherine doesn’t seem to be able to understand when some of the people her husband and children bring around are not suitable for her consumption. Shame on Randy for bringing Howard Mann into his Mothers life and the trouble he started in order to get control of something he couldn’t control if he tried. I am talking about his brothers Estate.
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The funny thing is Vaccaro said there was nothing incriminating in the vault.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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Oh I forgot to say in my previous comment that when the Jackson Family had Katherine in Arizona at a “spa” in July Howard Mann had a hearing coming up. Isn’t this a version of the shell game where you get the person to look over here so they don’t see what the other hand is doing over there? Randy at the same time he was pressuring Katherine to bring the lawsuit against AEG was also introducing her to none other than Howard Mann. Another amazing coincidence isn’t it.
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Here is a link to an article in The Washington Post. This one is about the Howard Mann lawsuit. Now I will ask one question: Why is it that everytime something gets stirred up by the Jackson family that paints one of their oppositions in a negative light this man is not far behind. Just like the letter to the Estate from the siblings that started that fiasco we now have a selectively leaked email drama to go with the start of his trial. Marc Schaffel is in partnership with Mann in the Jackson Secret Vault. Marc Schaffel had friends in the tabloid business that came out in the 2005 trial. Now tell me that those emails are just a coincidence considering the way that Mann got Katherine to along with it was to say he wanted her to be able to get rid of the embarrasing things in the Jackson Secret Vault. That is called duress and coercion in case anyone is wondering.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/music/trial-to-determine-value-of-some-michael-jackson-copyrights-that-businessman-improperly-used/2012/09/04/e745ab2a-f66e-11e1-a93b-7185e3f88849_story.html
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Helena the contract was never signed and it was back dated to May 1st if you remember the testimony correctly. It was still not signed at the time of Michael’s death. It is not my summize that says that Murray was giving Michael Propofol every night for at least two months before he died.It was David Walgren and Debra Brazil.
As for the email from Murray to BobTaylor… Yes it was written when Michael was laying dead so the wording tells me that it was Murray that was protecting himdelf from discovery of his illegal acts.You know you wrote the piece on Randy and you have researched the Prescient Acqusition case so why is it so hard for you to believe that the family would leak a few emails to the press after what they have done just a couple of months ago.
I also just reread Katherine Jackson’s original complaint and it has nothing to do with the contract.It says that AEG forced Murray on Michael. That they forced the drugs on Michael and that simply is not true. Murray is not a fall guy. He knew what he was doing and he knew it was wrong that is why he did not want blood work done on Michael because he was afraid that a routine tox screen would show the level of benzos and Propofol in his blood. The problem in the lawsuit is that Katherine claims only cover from June 18th until Michael’s death.Well what about all the time that Murray was poisoning Michael before June 18th?
The ones that are commenting here are not the one that created the problem the other day.Neither is AEG. It is the family and my guess would be Randy with the help of Howard Mann whose trial starts in a couple of days. Howard Mann is another fiasco of Randy’s making. He was the one that introduced him to Katherine who then got Schaffel involved. He is actually trying to get Katherine to pay for footage that Michael only gave him permission to use for the Michael Jackson Private Home Movies. ONe has to wonder if Katherine was so up on what was happening in Michael’s life how she wouldn’t know that Schaffel once claimed in court that she asked for $250,000 for the interview for the Fox Rebuttal to Martin Bashir’s dog and pony show.
You know that Roger Friedman has been accused of talking for the Estate well maybe he is and maybe the lawyers involved in all this know some things that we don’t. It is Michael’s lawyer that may be asking for sanctions not AEG’s lawyers. Maybe the reason that they asked for this to be under seal was to protect Michael and the reason that it was leaked is because someone is desperate and does not care what they do to their brothers legacy. The way they treated Prince, Paris and Blanket in July tells me all I need to know about whaty Randy Jackson is all about.
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When Murray wrote his reply to Bob Taylor re authorization to send certain info, Murray´s reply was “authorization denied.”.Michael may already have been dead without Murray noticing.The amount propofol given was calculated on the basis of what was found in the full bladder at autopsy.There was the bottle on the table with urine also containing propofool, somewhat less than what was found in the bladder.So Michael had not been awake for some time before death or he would have relieved himself.
I mentioned the contract,fraud,(fraudulent contract) only because these may have been reasons for not complying with AEG´s requests.These were small points in the court papers by AEG.Really I don´t know their meaning exactly.
So who exactly will benefit from the this leak of e-mails? Is it revenge? that will backfire for sure.
Michael’s illnesses, his use and alleged abuse of drugs was extensively dicussed around the time of Murray´s trial. And Randy Phillips is a big liar.
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Helena, I also think, that Jacksons can simply be manipulated. Of course, not everyone from this family have Michael’s best interest in their mind, but they are not smart enough to come up with this plan all alone
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VMJ: You have no problem throwing all Jacksons under the bus too. I hope that at least Katherine Jackson will be spared.
Wrong, all the stuff I said can be back up. What do you think calling Branca a murderer during the last 3 years. And what about making business deals with people who called MJ a pedophile like Marc Schaffel, what do you think of people like Rebbie claiming that Stacy Brown is a great guy?
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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“They were “advised” by some of these people, provoked into unwise actions, given false hopes and were simply USED”
They are not use. They know the people who advise them for years. They kept makeing deals with people who threw MJ under the bus because they didn’t care. They have no problems throwing people under the bus..
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
VMJ: You have no problem throwing all Jacksons under the bus too. I hope that at least Katherine Jackson will be spared.
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“the Jacksons, desperate for money after their failed attempt to snatch Katherine Jackson this summer, are looking for sympathy in the court of public opinion”
The Jacksons are a bunch of people who have been brainwashed, threatened and bombarded with arguments against Katherine’s lawsuit by “well-wishers” and AEG agents like ones we see here coming from very corner.
They were “advised” by some of these people, provoked into unwise actions, given false hopes and were simply USED.
They have their flaws as all human beings but these flaws were terribly taken advantage of by someone whom they thought to be their friends.
And now, if they indeed took the lead of these “friends” and did as they advised them, they will enjoy all the fruit of their own flaws, simplicity and trust in wrong people.
In situations like these only the truth can heal.
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I think he did.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
VMJ: Then it tells us all we need to know about Roger Friedman. However I doubt that he read all the papers making up that “contract”. That contract needs comparison with its attachments, that’s the point.
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I left a short (for lack of time) comment on Roger Friedman’s article.
Before you write things like “AEG wanted him to succeed” go and read their so-called contract first.
The comment is in moderation.
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The lawyers for AEGLive, the company being sued by Michael Jackson’s family for his alleged wrongful death, are fuming. I am told they may ask the court for sanctions against the Jackson family and their attorneys as early as Tuesday over emails that were leaked to the Los Angeles Times last week. The emails, which the Times published, were sealed as part of the wrongful death suit as evidence. The court case won’t be heard until next year.
But my sources say that the Jacksons, desperate for money after their failed attempt to snatch Katherine Jackson this summer, are looking for sympathy in the court of public opinion. I’m told they selectively pulled a few mails from hundreds and turned them over to the Los Angeles Times in an effort to make AEGLive look guilty of somehow forcing Michael to perform 50 concerts in London.
The truth when the totality of the emails is uncovered in court will be quite different. Michael Jackson was in deep debt when AEG first proposed he do 10 shows at the O2 Arena. That was in the fall of 2008. Jackson waffled. But eventually he was persuaded to agree simply because he had no choice. In practical terms, he was broke. AEG offered him an easy way to make some decent money and get back on his feet.
One thing is true: on the way to the O2 Arena announcement in March 2009, Jackson freaked out. He got ripping drunk. The result can be seen in the video of the announcement. Michael is grinning from ear to ear, laughing, and has no idea what to say other than “This is it.” On the way to the announcement from London, he was petrified. He was very late arriving at the Arena, as well, making everyone wait.
What the LA Times has discounted is the documentary, “This Is It.” For as much as Michael was petulant, stubborn, lazy, scared, etc, he was also a perfectionist with certain specific abilities. The latter are seen in the film at the rehearsals that he did show up for. And no one at AEG Live was trying to kill him, or overwork him to the point of exhaustion. AEG wanted Michael to succeed. They let him handpick everyone from Dr. Conrad Murray to his chef to trainers etc.
Let’s not forget: on May 5th, 2009 Kevin Spacey’s former manager Joanne Horowitz ran into Michael at Dr. Arnold Klein’s office. Michael was in great shape and looking forward to the tour. (Link follows.) Jackson’s mental and physical status changed on a daily basis as the London shows loomed. Like any performer, there were days when he was excited and others when he was apprehensive.
http://www.showbiz411.com/2012/09/03/michael-jackson-lawyers-may-ask-court-for-sanctions-over-leaked-emails
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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“They didn’t implyed that he killed himself it’s your own interpretation of that article nothing more.”
Yes, it is my impression of the way the information is presented in the article. However this is a question not to AEG, but to the authors of this 2nd article. They shortened the original article and left the readers with the impression that MJ denied authorization and less than an hour later died.
Here is the message they are talking of:
The essence of it is that Murray was busy writing all this when Michael was dying. He left him unattended and was not even looking.
The insurance was what AEG was insisting on – it is there in their “contract” papers – Michael never insisted on it and thought that the four and a half hour examination that took place in Los Angeles was more than enough.
The authorization was denied to the medical records for the past period. Lloyds wanted the following from Jackson:
More about it here: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/conrad-murray-trial-week-2/
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Guys, isn’t it interesting to find at last who is listening to Jackson’s side of the story and who is not?
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Murray was giving MJ massive amounts of propofol everynight for almost two months before AEG considered him for MJ’s doctor. As for his Psychological state being in question I would like to say that if he did not use this during the trial or consider taking his life then he most certainly wouldn’t do it over money or a contract. At that point Michael would have just had his lawyers fight it out with AEG he certainly would not have been that worried about it. Remember that Michael was a very seasoned defendent in lawsuits because he was sued over a thousand times in his life.Why would he be so worried about something that he had lived with most of his adult life?And there is a saying here in the US that says ” there is no such thing as an airtight contract” and it happens to be true.
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VMJ:
Murray was hired on May 1 if I remember it right, and propofol was ordered sometime in April, so “two months before AEG considered him for a doctor” is a gross exaggeration.
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Thanks, Shelly, for the correction re Neil Ratner not Metzger who gave the propofol before.
About the contract with AEG re TII, how come Michael’s manager–Tohme–could not get him a better contract?? He wanted huge sums and still does, but how come he couldn’t earn his $$ by protecting MJ with a good contract?? How come he could not refinance MJ’s debts? What about the lousy Neverland deal with Colony Capital?? With a better manager, MJ would have been in a better situation financially and with AEG.
I read this re the suit for wrongful death (AEG vs. KJ and PPB):
“After Tuesday’s hearing [back in April] , Jackson family attorney Kevin Boyle said he will weigh the option of filing a motion for a priority trial date because of the Jackson boy’s age [referring to Blanket]. But he also said the new trial date may actually help his clients.
“The way we keep obtaining more information, it might be beneficial,” he said.
AEG Live attorney Marvin Putnam — who has called the Jackson case a “shakedown” of his clients — said even if Boyle files a motion for a priority trial date, the soonest it could be set is six months from the Sept. 10 date and nine months at the latest.
In additional court papers filed Monday, AEG Live attorneys state that deposition testimony from Katherine Jackson and two of her children revealed that Michael Jackson “had a decades-long history of severe substance abuse, including an addiction to prescription painkillers and repeated interventions.”
The information contradicts the Jackson family’s claims that AEG Live “somehow forced Mr. Jackson to receive dangerous medication from his physician,” according to the AEG Live court papers.
The more information that is obtained from the Jacksons increases the likelihood that it will “further undermine their case,” the AEG Live court papers state.”
This is a knockdown fight for millions, way more potentially damaging IMO than the 17 million suit with Lloyd’s. Let’s see what happens in court.
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VMJ: When asking questions about Tohme, etc. you sound like you’ve never read this blog’s column about AEG: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/category/aeg-the-horrible/
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@aldebaran,
It was not Metzger who gave him Propofol. It was Neil Ratner. AEG is not innocent, but they are not responsible for his mental state. I find strange that the Jackson worked with AEG for their Unity Tour.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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I am not convinced that AEG is entirely to blame for Michael’s death according to the argument that they put him in a ‘terrible psychological state’ that led to the increased insomnia and the need for meds. (“This was the main reason why Michael could not sleep and needed medication.Take away the reason and he would be alive now.”)
Let’s look at this. First, Michael’s psychological state has to have been influenced/caused in part by the previous the events that led to AEG–going back from 1958 to 2007. We are looking at a host of characters, including Tohme, his family, his ex-wives, his ‘spiritual advisors,’ his managers, Sneddon, the media, the lawsuits from his supposed ‘friends’ as well as others. We also have his financial situation–the debts, which were breathing down his neck. Branca has said he was close to bankrupcy at the time of death. These debts came before AEG. I do agree AEG’s restrictions, disrespect, punitiveness, demands, diastrous contract all contributed, but I am asking to look at the others that put Michael in the vulnerable state as well as AEG.
“They promised Murray to provide medical equipment and a nurse but never did.
Murray had nothing to monitor Michael with.” It came out at trial that Murray could have purchased a monitoring device that sent a loud signal when the blood oxygen levels dropped for as little as $80. He would have heard the beep while he was in another room. Murray was administering the propofol in a careless way, for which he was convicted of manslaughter. I think Murray had the final responsibility. He was apparently spending $ in strip clubs so he had that much to spend on equipment for sure. He could also have refused to continue to administer the propofol without the necessary equipment, but he did not. Even if he had stayed in the room with MJ, MJ would not have died. However, it was not the propofol alone that killed Michael–it was the combination of propofol with other sleep drugs, like lorazepam, that killed him–or at least stopped him from breathing and sent him into cardiac arrest. It was Murray who did not call 911 for 20 minutes.
The other point is that Metzger had given Michael propofol before and that is probably why Michael thought there was no danger. However, Metzger was a trained anasthesiologist and was not stupid enough to mix meds in a fatal combination. It was the mixture that was the fatal mistake on Murray’s part. He was ‘weaning’ Michael of propofol and injecting other prescription meds but then added the propofol, and left the room.
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VMJ: The fact that Murray is guilty like hell does not acquit AEG of their part.
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They are not responsible for his sleep problems. He already did that before. What you are claiming is only the Jackson’s side of the story. As always there are 2 sides of that story. The other side of that story is his own relationship with his family which was probably lots more damaging than what AEG ever did. All you said about the contract is not part of that lawsuit.
“They increased the number of concerts to 50 and did it without ever asking his consent.”
Jackson’s side of the story only. Dileo said he wanted to do his 50 shows and I guess it’s probably AEG’s side. Someone is lying and nobody knows who.
“hey changed the terms of their ‘contract’, first saying that Tohme would get $100,000 from (their) production costs, but then putting Tohme on Michael’s shoulders together the rest of those costs.
They said their contract was final.”
It’s nowhere in KJ’s lawsuit. If it comes during the trial and KJ won, they won’t be convicted about that because KJ isn’t making any claim about that.
“This was the main reason why Michael could not sleep and needed medication.”
Or maybe his own family, trying to force him to do a concert show that he didn’t want to do, trying to impose him Rowe as a manager even though he was under lots of lawsuits for stealing money, or his family siding with Allgood entertainment and the ceased & desist letter because of a contract he never signed or pressuring him to find a deal with AEG so that he could make the Allgood concert. That stuff never happened that why he was hit by a lawsuit, which turns out to be a 300 millions dollars lawsuit after This is it.
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“This way they want to impose on readers a LIE that Michael, being afraid of the medical check-up, took his life himself!”
They are just saying that MJ died an hour after Murray claimed MJ refused it, nothing else . They didn’t implyed that he killed himself it’s your own interpretation of that article nothing more. They never said he killed himself.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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It probably comes from the Lloyd trial
No, it probably comes from another company.
Look at the way this article is structured – it is a shortened variant of the LATimes article. One paragraph says that Michael denied authorization for another medical check-up and the next (last and crucial) paragraph says that less than a hour later he stopped breathing.
This way they want to impose on readers a LIE that Michael, being afraid of the medical check-up, took his life himself!
Dr. Shaffer provided full and final proof during Murray’s trial that Michael COULD NOT self-administer propofol. It was simply technically impossible to do it. After the initial dose (which Murray admitted) wore off, MJ was to stand up, go to the closet (dragging the IV stand after him), then bring an 200ml bottle, put it on the stand, start pouring propofol and LIE ON THE BED after that.
And this in spite of the fact that a few seconds after propofol starts streaming the patient gets unconscious! MJ would have been found on the floor had he taken it himself!
No, the situation is exactly the opposite. The medical check-up was looming and AEG started panicking. All their previous statements about Michael’s excellent health would turn against them – how come Michael reached that horrible state within several months only and while he was under the care of a doctor hired by AEG?
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Randy Phillips is a liar as good as Murray. He, Phillips went around smiling and joking about Michaels good health and physique just prior to Michaels death. He was so subdued at the Murray trial.
Still only a few days before Michaels death he had arrangenged the Riot Act.: ie. intentional infliction of emotional distress (this is a point mentioned in the court papers by Lloyds) and ordered Michael to only take the meds Murray gave him. Which Michael complied with.
Lloyds also have some point re contract. ie no contract, fraud, (in this case fraudulent contract I would believe)
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“By the way, the lawsuit is not about the contract. It’s about AEG forcing MJ to take drugs, what is in the contract is not in the cause of actions. The entire lawsuit is about Mj and drugs nothing else.”
This I know and this is the mistake of it.
Joe Jackson amended his lawsuit with claims concerning the validity of the AEG contract, but his lawyer Brian Oxman was disbarred and the judge dismissed the case saying that it was a double to Katherine Jackson’s.
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It probably comes from the Lloyd trial
“Numerous emails show Lloyd’s of London unsuccessfully pushing for access to five years of Jackson’s medical records in order to expand insurance coverage for the concerts.”
http://music-mix.ew.com/2012/09/03/michael-jackson-promoter-emails-a-mess/
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“don’t make them responsible for his death cause they are not.”
AEG is responsible for the terrible psychological condition Michael was in prior to his death.
Because of them Michael did not sleep and was afraid to miss a single rehearsal.
They threatened to pull the plug and if they did he would lose his company and possibly all his assets.
They played “the tough love” on Jackson and refused to render him qualified medical help.
Randy Phillips even said that it was “critical” not to play psychologists with Michael Jackson.
They promised Murray to provide medical equipment and a nurse but never did.
Murray had nothing to monitor Michael with, but had all the financing needed for buying 4 gallons of propofol.
They increased the number of concerts to 50 and did it without ever asking his consent.
This added to Michael’s anxiety and made him stop eating and sleeping.
However they obliged the doctor to ensure Michael’s attendance of every rehearsal.
They treated him like a machine as Michael himself said it.
They put ALL production costs on Michael’s shoulders and released themselves of the need to invest in the shows as other promoters do.
They changed the terms of their ‘contract’, first saying that Tohme would get $100,000 from (their) production costs, but then putting Tohme on Michael’s shoulders together the rest of those costs.
They said their contract was final.
But the page which carries Michael’s signature on it says that the agreement is still to be finalized.
They made him sign a promissory note under which Michael was losing his company and all its assets in case he did not return his advances.
They could demand his advances any moment, for example, if they pulled the plug.
They read to him a riot act under which they would pull the plug if he missed at least one rehearsal.
This was the main reason why Michael could not sleep and needed medication.
Take away the reason and he would be alive now.
So what shall we do in this situation?
The answer is “Nothing, just let the Estate deal with that in their lawsuit against Tohme”
So AEG surrendered Tohme. Glad to hear that.
I would suggest that they should also surrender Randy Phillips.
When Sony was responsible for a tiny fraction of what AEG is responsible for now, they at least fired Tommy Mottola.
Strange but Sony never tried to smear Michael Jackson either before or after that dismissal.
However AEG is not Sony.
They are going to “defend” themselves.
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His emails could come from the Murray trial.
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The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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I just looked at lyande51’s link to the MJJCommunity summary of the AEG lawsuit actions. It is long and I did not read every word, but what struck me is that AEG is asking KJ and PPB (who are also named in the lawsuit) for lots of info and they are also asking KJ and PPB for the basis of the claim, or what led them to believe there was a basis for the claim. AEG says (in the mjjc summary) that they suspect there is no basis and that KJ and PPB are waiting for info to emerge from AEG itself that will in essence convict AEG. B/c AEG suspects this they indicate that they will take action (legal) if that is the case, namely that the lawsuit was started without any evidence or any basis.
So these emails may in fact provide the crucial basis for the lawsuit and thus protect KJ and PPB from a countersuit being brought against them b/c they filed a frivolous lawsuit–frivolous in the sense they had no basis for bringing the suit and were engaged in a fishing expedition.
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By the way, the lawsuit is not about the contract. It’s about AEG forcing MJ to take drugs, what is in the contract is not in the cause of actions. The entire lawsuit is about Mj and drugs nothing else.
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I am indeed saying that KJ is bad–and not in a good way. And it’s b/c you said something about her lawsuit being for the primary purpose of justice for Michael. That’s why I brought it up. As far as the AEG contract–how is that relevant to the leaked emails and the upcoming lawsuits? Are you saying that you believe that AEG killed Michael deliberately? Do you think they knew about the propofol? Do you believe that LaToya was right when she claimed Murray was the fall guy? What would you like to see happen here?
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“May I repeat my question now – what do you suggest doing with those horrible papers which AEG passed for a contract with Michael Jackson? Forget about them? And let AEG live a long and happy life ever after?”
Nothing, just let the Estate dealing with that in their lawsuit against Tohme, or at least filed a lawsuit based on that contract alone, but don’t make them responsible for his death cause they are not.
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“Shelly is right AEG is going to defend themselves against the lawsuits.”
You say it as if I didn’t know it.
Lynette, and what do you suggest?
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You know guys, I find it very interesting how the emails leaked about AEG are turning into a discussion on how bad Katherine Jackson is.
May I repeat my question now – what do you suggest doing with those horrible papers which AEG passed for a contract with Michael Jackson? Forget about them? And let AEG live a long and happy life ever after?
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Defending themselves, means proving that MJ was a long time drug addict and his durg addiction and Propofol use has nothing to do with them. It’s why they deposed his previous Drs were deposed and it’s partly why they asked the Jacksons questions about his drug abuse, his mental health before they knew him.
They are trying to prove what was his mental health before they met him. It’s why they asked questions about whether or not he had mental health problems, his drug problems, questions about what he said about his father. They tryed to establish the facts that he was exploited by his own family.
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Helena an interrogatory is written list of questions posed to a party in a civil suit either in lieu of a deposition or prior to a deposition. It is used as a method of discovery in a civil suit. Randy and the rest of the family were probably shown the interrogatory by Katherine and were aware of what was coming.
Shelly is right AEG is going to defend themselves against the lawsuits. They are a business and they have to.I am sorry for that and in that defense is going to be all the questions that the family themselves started within two days of Michael’s death about his supposed drug abuse.
It is not that we are supporting AEG but Shelly is right next year when these two cases go to trial it will do alot of damage to Michael. Coming on the heels of that letter and before Bad 25 I have to question who that benefits is all and it is not AEG.I think someone somewhere would like to undo all the good that has happened for MJ since the Murray trial. We have seen an upturn in positive articles about him and now this. What does that say?
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“Its goal is to convince fans that the justice Katherine is seeking for Michael is actually harming Michael Jackson’s legacy.”
Helena, I have to respectfully disagree that KJ’s lawsuit against AEG is primarily to seek
justice for Michael. She is after big bucks and she will get it if she can prove what is alleged. I do agree that AEG took advantage, pressured, failed to protect Michael–but that is exactly what his family did to him, so in a way it’s the rats fighting the rats.
If KJ wanted justice for Michael she would not have done to him all the betrayals she has done over the years, including putting the kids on Oprah and using them to sell her projects. She would not be in constant battles with the Estate, costing huge amounts of legal bills, which the Estate has to pay for–both her side and theirs. She would not have been pressuring Michael to do concerts with Allgood when he was struggling with so much.
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Because the questions are about whether his family exploited MJ. Those questions are about their financial situation, are about who was paying the bill for the entire family and the pressure they put on him to bring money. It’s why they started asking questions about Don Stabler
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“What you don’t understand is AEG is going to defend themself.”
I do understand that AEG is already defending itself.
So what do you suggest?
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It’s not going to hurt AEG, you might not like it but that doesn’t change the fact that AEG is not responsible for what Murray did. They didn’t forced Murray on MJ. Murray was a friend of MJ before they hired him. The drug addiction problem that MJ had in the past had nothing to do with AEG but it’s in that lawsuit. MJ didn’t become unable to sleep because of his contract, it was before that.
What you don’t understand is AEG is going to defend themself. You do know that his medical records from the eighties are part of this lawsuit? All the stuff he claimed about his father are also in it? All that stuff is in those legal documents that are available. It has nothing to do with the fans.
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“She wasn’t deposed but they did gave her a list of questions she has to answer. They all knew on what they had to testfiy”
Wait a minute – if the Jacksons “kept smearing their brother and sold stories about him being a drug addict” as you say, why would they worry that they and their mother should answer those questions?
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“You’ll have a blood bath next year. The 2 sides are claiming MJ was a drug addict. All that stuff, is actually in their deposition. There is no campaign started in the fans community. Yes, it’s harming MJ’s legacy big time there is no question about that”
So let us leave AEG alone with their contract and let them live a happy life ever after?
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Oh by the way the Lloyd’s lawsuit also names Michael Jackson Company LLC as a defendent. Go figure. Anyway like I said before there are more possibilities for the leak than AEG because it did not benefit them at all. and the one email from Kenny Ortega was in reference to that Saturday when Michael was so ill from what Murray was doing. There is another source for you possibly Murray’s defense team because they would have had these emails too would be my guess.
For the record if either of these cases are successful in proving what they want to prove Murray will go free because no matter what he did according to these lawsuits it was either Michaels fault or AEG’s fault. Does anyone in the fan community want to see Michael labled as the picture that his family members painted of him.
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Helena more articles have been written about the emails since yesterday and from them there is more information. One thing is that the AEG lawyer has implied that Randy Phillips exaggerated in the emails. Well of course he did because I never saw what he claims was going on at the time he claimed it was going on. Michael arrived late at the O2 Arena for his announcement and I am sorry to say anything negative but Michael was notoriously late his entire life. For everything including his interment! He was even an hour late for that( it is true but I found that so very funny for lack of a better word to be late for his own funeral)! He loved the sizzle as he called the anticipation up to his appearance. As for him being a basket case I would be too if it was the first time I was going to make a statement since that god forsaken trial. Wouldn’t you be when you consider everything that was said about him. I know I would. I believe that Randy Phillips exaggerated and remember Thome was his manager at the time.
Second there is even more information that points to the Lloyds case being the leak which is being handled by California lawyers so that is your answer. Apparently they are suing not to pay because they have to here if they don’t want to. It is not as simple as saying no we won’t cover that. They also use information in the articles from the Murray trial of all things including the fact that Murray wrote an email to them saying that he had conferred with Michael and the answer was no to the medical records. The funny thing about that is that they say Michael was dead an hour later like that would somehow help them when we know from the trial testimony that Michael was dead long before Murray said he was. They use his timeline of all things to conclude that it is somehow accurate.
I am in no way a fan of Randy Phillips but this did just as much damage to him and AEG as it did to Michael. And given what the articles say I would not wager that AEG was the leak in the email case so to speak. But dredging up all the negative about them put Michael in the limelight. My guess is there is a hearing in that case coming up soon Here is a link to the lawsuit that Lloyds has against AEG and Michael Jackson Company LLC.
Anyway suffice it to say that there are at least two other possibilities for the source of the leak that would benefit them more than AEG and that is certain members of the family and the insurance company.
Click to access MJ-Lloyds.pdf
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“This change of heart from Randy Jackson is very interesting. So he lied that his mother was interrogated?”
He didn’t lie about that. She wasn’t deposed but they did gave her a list of questions she has to answer. They all knew on what they had to testfiy which is by the way about all the interview they did about MJ being a drug addict, their alleged interventions, financial deals they had in relation to MJ, everything they knew about him.
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It’s the Jacksons who kept smearing their brother, who sold stories about him being a drug addict, not AEG.
It has nothing to do with the fans. Everything I told you is in the legal documents. You’ll have a blood bath next year. The 2 sides are claiming MJ was a drug addict. All that stuff, is actually in their deposition. There is no campaign started in the fans community. Yes, it’s harming MJ’s legacy big time there is no question about that
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“The Randy that Shelly is refering to was Randy Jackson not Randy Phillips.He was the one that was delighted and pushed for his mother to sue AEG. Then suddenly in July we here from him and his siblings that the lawuit is hard on his mother because of the questions that were being asked in an interrogatory that she has not even answered.”
This change of heart from Randy Jackson is very interesting. So he lied that his mother was interrogated? So when he said it was hard on her there had been no interrogation yet? Interesting. Sounds like someone told him that it indeed would be hard on his mother and probably even asked to talk her out of it.
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It’s a lawsuit against AEG and the Estate.
Click to access MJ-Lloyds.pdf
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“What do you think it’s going to happen? MJ hired Murray, MJ asked himself for Propofol. His past drug history is in that lawsuit, they took deposition of his previous doctors including what happened during the History tour. You have the whole family, except for Jermaine, who sold stories about him being a helpless drug addict. What do you think is going to happen, who is going to lose even if the jackson won”
What do I think about it? I think that a new campaign is being started by someone among MJ’s fans. Its goal is to convince fans that the justice Katherine is seeking for Michael is actually harming Michael Jackson’s legacy.
If she withdraws the lawsuit everything will be quiet and no stories about Michael being a helpless drug addict will be in the press. But if she goes on with the suit Michael will receive one blow after another. There will be more leaks, more stories, more brainwashing and confusing of the Jacksons and more blackmail.
Yes, in its very essence it is blackmail – you withdraw the suit, we stop smearing him.
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“Lloyds is also not a tabloid and has a reputation. And a reputation is something which companies earn for centuries and they do not want to lose it due to some emails. I think that Lloyds can very well limit themselves to discussing the matter in court and not in tabloids.”
I don’t know if it’s Lloyd who did that. To be honest, I expect them to behave better than that. I was just saying that they have a motive to do that if they did. You know that they actually refused to pay and that they are in a middle of a lawsuit against AEG and the points which are in that article are the points of their lawsuit and it’s going to trial.
Against, I expect them to behave better than that, but we don’t know and it’s possible that they did it.
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“Anyway, that certainly doesn’t come from AEG.”
Shelly, you have made your point about this certainly not coming from AEG. It does not convince me. I do not go by what people tell me. I go by their motives. Lloyds of London is absolutely not interested in smearing Michael Jackson’s name in the press in order to refuse to pay insurance to AEG. They can simply say No and that will be it.
Lloyds is also not a tabloid and has a reputation. And a reputation is something which companies earn for centuries and they do not want to lose it due to some emails. I think that Lloyds can very well limit themselves to discussing the matter in court and not in tabloids.
Someone wants to smear Michael very much and this leaves us with a task who wants it and who benefits by it. Also the article itself should be analysed in minute detail, however none of the people who are set on discussing this burning issue have done it yet. The conversation has suddently been taken in a totally different direction with everything being discussed except the main issue.
I wonder WHY?
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Because Lloyd is in the middle of a lawsuit against AEG, and maybe there isn’t a gag order. One of their claim is that MJ was a drug addict and it was hidden from them, and that MJ lied to them when he told them he never had a dependency issue, it’s the point of the article.
Anyway, that certainly doesn’t come from AEG.
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“And the answer as to who leaked the emails is the insurance company that is suing AEG. That wouldbe Lloyd’s of London which of course is how they got around the gag order.”
I wonder how you guys come to a conclusion like that? Any action should have a motive, and when there is no motive attributing something to somebody is a mere speculation. Why would Lloyd’s of London leak these 250 pages all of a sudden? What good is Lloyds getting for themselves from leaking the documents and risking their reputation at that?
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I am reading the comments–thanks lynande51 for the links to the AEG lawsuit–I will check them out. Maybe it will become clearer over time where the leaks originated. I am just going with the fact that this summer we have had a series of Jackson sibling ‘productions’–the letter saying the executors are corrupt and the will fraudulent, the KJ kidnapping, the loss of KJ guardianship, the co-guardianship, the lies (IMO) that KJ told re the tv and phone not working and her being totally unaware she was considered missing even tho’police came to visit her, the attempt to take the kids from their home, the ‘new’ security guards showing up at 3 am. And now this leak of the 250 emails. It seems to be a pattern, but I could be persuaded otherwise if some new info is presented. Meanwhile, this does not help AEG as it makes them look like they covered up the fact that Michael was (supposedly) not in a physical or mental shape to perform 50 concerts.
I myself believe that he was understandably nervous about how the press conference would go, and I find it sad that someone so talented and marvellous would have the self-doubt he apparently had, which was understandable given so many ordeals he experienced, esp. from the media and Sneddon (let’s not forget WW’s efforts). However, I do not think Michael was in such bad shape until Murray overdosed him with 6 weeks of nightly propofol, which Judge Pastor said was a kind of medical experiment of the worst sort on a human being and that is why Murray is in jail.
As far as Michael’s weight, the coronor said he was at normal weight (137 pounds). Just be/c you are thin doesn’t mean you are not strong. Joe Ferragomo (sp??) his trainer (the hulk) said he was in excellent shape (interview with Nancy Grace-less). I recall that Michaeal’s driver’s license from way back when he lived at Hayvenhurst said he weighed 120 pounds!!
Whoever leaked this knew the media would swarm on it like flies, and now there are 260 media that have picked up the ‘story.’
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@lynande,
What you said is probably true. It would be interesting to know if there is a gag order in that lawsuit too.
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I wonder what will be the Jackson’s excuses for what they did to Branca if it turns out he did nothing wrong.
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And the answer as to who leaked the emails is the insurance company that is suing AEG. That wouldbe Lloyd’s of London which of course is how they got around the gag order. Does everyone remember that is the way the press found out Jordan’s name. Everyone knows that the best way to circumvent US law is to go outside the jurisdiction and release in the UK.That probably makes the most sense.Just another case of the tabloid media machine. Has anyone actually seen the emails in their entirety yet?
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Michael left guardianship of his children to Katherine or Diana Ross. That says one thing. Form them he expected them to raise his children with love and keep them away from Joseph. He left his money matters to John Branca and John McClain because they were always the ones that had proved themselves trustworthy when it came to his best business interest. he deliberately left his father and siblings out of his will because they had proven the opposite. All he wanted from Katherine was love for his kids.It sure is a shame she is not able to put them before her own grown children.Even Prince said it when he wrote on Twitter that “his father had told him how some people worked” and he wrote that to his aunts and uncles that sent that letter and were lying to his grandmother.
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“How many more instances do we have to go through before people get that that family was only after Michael’s earning ability from beginning until the end.”
You forgot the reality show that some of the Jacksons wanted to do during the 2005 trial.
I wonder why KJ perjured herself in July 2009 when she said in court she didn’t know he had a will. She had a meeting with Branca before that, so she knew he had a will. Magareth Lodise called her a liar in front of the judge because of that.
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Shelly unfortunately for Michael his life was filled with his family throwing him under the bus for money.As a matter of fact that is just exactly what happened to his childhood. Joe knew that Michael was the star of the show and part of his abuse of Michael was to minimize his importance to the group. Without Michael the Jackson 5 would have been just another 1970’s R&B boy group. Joe used to batter Michael to keep him in his place meaning let him know that he was the boss and yet Michael from the age of 5 was the family breadwinner. Don’t let anybody kid you on that.The real reason that Michael held his mother in such high regard was that she was the only parent he really had because Joe was jsut a manager he was never his father once he heard him sing.
Then moving ahead to LaToya and her fiasco. Does anyone know that she got paid, or according to her, Jack Gordon got paid $100,000 dollars for her to make that speech against Michael in 1993 when he was at his worst.
Let’s not forget Word To The Badd, and the Vaccaro lawsuit courtesy of the family. You even reference the Prescient lawsuit courtesy of Randy. Jermaine was the one that introduce Michael to Thome. How many more instances do we have to go through before people get that that family was only after Michael’s earning ability from beginning until the end.
You know I have a link to an interview that Frank Dileo did with Larry King talking about Rowe and Joe Jackson and one of the saddest parts of the interview,any interview for that matter was when Larry asked about Rowe and AllGood Entertainment.Frank said that Michael came to him and said, “we have to get rid of Rowe” so that is when Frank said “Okay” and they sent a letter to Rowe firing him. It seems that Rowe had a very shady past in business affairs. Joe was the one that had Michael meet with him at a bungalow at the Beverly HIlton and badgered Michael about a different tour than the one with AEG. Joe wanted hin and his other sons to go on tour with Michael or wanted a part of the deal with AEG. Frank’s exact words were that “Michael never wanted to do business with Joe,he jsut wanted him to be a father”.
That is heart wrenching when you know that even in his death Joes only used Michael’s name to promote himself and whatever project he was promoting now.It would make your blood turn cold to here him outside the BET awards two days after Michael’s death promoting some girl singer that he had signed up.Two days. This family and that man don’t know how to make money without attaching Michael to it in some way. Yes it is sad when it turn out that the people that cared the most about you other than your children are the ones that handle your money for you after you are gone.
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“And last but not least all this article does is show just how passionately and compassionately John Branca, John McClain and Howard Weitzman are protecting Michael’s legacy.”
It’s a sad thing when the only one who are acting in your best interests are your lawyers and the whole family is throwing you under the bus for money.
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“The siblings letter complained that they filed for all documents in the KJ and AEG lawsuit to be filed underseal and asked for the gag order in the case.”
They said it in the letter, they wanted evidence coming from AEG to be a public evidence.
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“Since I cannot grasp any longer what you are talking about at all, let me take a leave of absence for some time and walk my dog, okay?”
The siblings claimed the restitution was dropped without them knowing it. Do you really believe that..
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“So, why not saying it, instead of claiming on twitter that the family didn’t know about that?”
Since I cannot grasp any longer what you are talking about at all, let me take a leave of absence for some time and walk my dog, okay? Probably when I come back I will be able to see your point.
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Don’t forget that it’s only a selection of the emails.
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“Katherine wants justice for Michael and wants the court to clarify what AEG did to her son.”
Sure, that’s why they filed a civil lawsuit against AEG. What do you think it’s going to happen? MJ hired Murray, KJ already said it in an interview. His kids already that they knew him before 2009. The Jacksons are going to have a very hard time to prove that they forced Murray on him. MJ asked himself for Propofol. His past drug history is in that lawsuit, they took deposition of his previous doctors including what happened during the History tour.
You have the whole family, except for Jermaine, who sold stories about him being a helpless drug addict. What do you think is going to happen, who is going to lose even if the jackson won, which is very far from being sure considering the fact that they started a lawsuit without having evidence of what they claimed (they said it).
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And last but not least all this article does is show just how passionately and compassionately John Branca, John McClain and Howard Weitzman are protecting Michael’s legacy. The siblings letter complained that they filed for all documents in the KJ and AEG lawsuit to be filed underseal and asked for the gag order in the case. They cetainly had more feeling for Katherine and the children than Randy Jackson does or did.
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“As regards why Katherine dropped the restitution, it is because it was based on a false conclusion that the AEG contract could provide Michael with millions. Accepting that fact and calculating the sum of Michael’s profit would have been giving that contract legitimacy which it does not have. So not to give validity to those papers the restitution was dropped.”
So, why not saying it, instead of claiming on twitter that the family didn’t know about that?
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Another lie told by the family in their letter to the Estate Helena was that their mother and MJ’s children have been deposed. It is a lie because according to the summary at MJJC she has not answered the interrogatories yet so their is no deposition of her yet. I think we have to see this article for what it is. One is makes AEG look bad and Michael look bad which will of course alter the sales projections of Bad 25 and show the workd how unfeeling AEG was.I can’t help that AEG was a business and the people in it were ruthless.
The Randy that Shelly is refering to was Randy Jackson not Randy Phillips.He was the one that was delighted and pushed for his mother to sue AEG. Then suddenly in July we here from him and his siblings that the lawuit is hard on his mother because of the questions that were being asked in an interrogatory that she has not even answered.
Don’t let Randy Jackson color your judgement because all Katherine would have to do is ask for copies of the documents and they would be hers and remember she was with Randy and other siblings out of touch with her Grandchildren for 10 days, ample time to get those from her possesion to theirs.
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“You mean if Katherine Jackson wanted the emails in the media, the media would have them?”
No, I meant the Jacksons. KJ isn’t alone in that. For the restitution stuff, it’s very easy, Murray can now makes money with his stories, that would not have been possible had they chose to keep the restitution because the money would have gone to the kids. The restitution has nothing to do with AEG. It was about Murray.
“Goodness gracious, Randy was happy about the lawsuit??? Where did you read this fairy tale?”
I was speaking about Randy Jackson.
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“The family sources for what was going on with MJ was in fact just that gossip,unfortunately from people like Karen Faye who is one of the biggest gossips.”
Lol at their story about Carol Lemere giving drugs to MJ, which is Taunya’s testimony. I wonder who was the family friend who leaked that to Friedman.
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You mean if Katherine Jackson wanted the emails in the media, the media would have them? But I doubt very much indeed that Katherine Jackson would want it. And since she is the only party to the lawsuit, this only party is out.
No comment.
I am trying very hard, but I simply cannot see any other party having access to those documents (except Katherine) and no other party interested in smearing Michael’s name as much as AEG. Joe Jackson is a huge suspect of course, but I doubt that he had access to the documents, and this brings us full circle to AEG again.
I don’t understand how dropping the restitution could give the right to Murray to sell his stories (?). There is no link whatsoever between these two events. As regards why Katherine dropped the restitution, it is because it was based on a false conclusion that the AEG contract could provide Michael with millions. Accepting that fact and calculating the sum of Michael’s profit would have been giving that contract legitimacy which it does not have. So not to give validity to those papers the restitution was dropped.
Katherine wants justice for Michael and wants the court to clarify what AEG did to her son. Justice for Michael was not made in Murray’s trial – four years is a joke, and what’s more important, Murray seems to be a stalking horse in this matter, someone secondary and dependent on people like Randy Phillips or the whole of AEG.
Easily. But even if she claimed only 1 dollar from AEG but all the dirt behind that contract was revealed and the public found the truth about what happened to Michael, it would still be a not too bad outcome.
Goodness gracious, Randy was happy about the lawsuit??? Where did you read this fairy tale? I am talking of Randy Phillips of course. And what Randy are you talking of?
I don’t know whether he is pissed off or not. I don’t believe a single word of what Randy Phillips is saying. For all I know he could have arranged the leakage himself and now create a scene of desperation. However from what I see from various media sources Randy Phillips is acutally enjoying himself very much indeed by telling all these stories about Michael, isn’t he?
When someone leaks unwelcome news about you people usually say “No comment. This information was supposed to be sealed”. However this news is regarded by AEG as a huge information event which enables them to throw Michael into the mud.
Probably it was the very idea of it from the very start.
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When you read the summaries you will see that the answers that Katherine did give are based completely on unsubstatiated fan gossip or family gossip. Did you even know that Taunya, Randy’s ex girlfriend was in fact Karen Faye’s manager? The family sources for what was going on with MJ was in fact just that gossip,unfortunately from people like Karen Faye who is one of the biggest gossips. The trouble with her is that she now wants to back out of being involved in it once she started the trouble.
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I also have no attachment to AEG either Helena. I would like to make some points to you if I may. As I said in my previous comments the article had a specific theme and that theme was to make AEG look bad at the expense of Michael. Why would anyone not see that the article benefited the Jackson family lawsuit. I hope you read the summaries that are posted on the link that I gave you so you can see what has been happening so far.
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Here is a summary of the Katherine Jackson vs AEG lawsuit up to now.
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/michael-jackson-news/katherine-jackson-v-s-aeg-lawsuit-summaries-and-update
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” I think that Joe Jackson and Michael’s siblings did not have access to emails exchanged by AEG employees among themselves. Sorry, but arguing over this matter further will only make me suspect that you have a special attachment towards AEG.”
KJ’s lawyers had access to them, it means that if the Jacksons wanted it to be in the media the emails will be in the media. I have no attachment to AEG’s. Try to see the situation at the whole not only MJ vs AEG.
Why do you think KJ drop the restitution, giving the right to Murray to sell his stories to the tabloids? What interest she has to file a civil suit against AEG when she can have all the money she wants? How do you think will get her part of that money, if she won?
Why do you think Randy was so happy about that lawsuit? Why do you think he is so pissed off now?
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“I was speaking about the legal documents. If you read their interview the only thing they could talk about is his drug addiction.”
Shelly, some Jacksons indeed talk mostly about things they know nothing of but like speculating about. Many of them did not see their brother for years, but they still offer their opinion as if they really knew. Even Katherine had no idea what was hapenning to her son, not to mention the others.
But we are indeed not talking about Jacksons or Leonard Rowe, but about legal documents only – 250 pages of emails leaked to the press. I agree that people like Joe Jackson would be able to leak them (if this is what you want to hear from me) if they had them, but this is exactly what I doubt. I think that Joe Jackson and Michael’s siblings did not have access to emails exchanged by AEG employees among themselves.
Sorry, but arguing over this matter further will only make me suspect that you have a special attachment towards AEG.
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“Quote from CNN:
“He said Jackson hired him to handle the finances for his final tour..He said the singer told him he agreed to do ten shows but that the promoter, AEG, sold out 50. …He said Jackson asked him to figure out a more doable schedule. Rowe says he asked AEG to cut
back.” But the same CNN transcript says that Rowe (same as Joe Jackson and Randy Jackson) was sure that Michael would not cope with the shows, voicing Joe Jackson’s opinion about his son:
Rowe appeared in MJ’s life in 2009 because he was hired by Allgood Enterntainment. Allgood first hired Dileo to make a deal with Jackson, when it didn’t work they hired Leonard Rowe. Rowe was an employee of Algood when he became MJ’s manager. His job was to make sure MJ will work for Allgood not for AEG. I don’t know if MJ knew about Rowe’s deal with Allgood or not but it’s what Allocco said in interview and in his lawsuit against AEG, Dileo and the Estate.
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“I spoke about a typical showbizz, what is included in it?”
The points typically included in a showbizz contract (primitive though) are provided in one of my first posts about AEG made a year and a half ago: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/michael-jacksons-agreement-with-aeg-a-contract-or-a-letter-of-intent/
Michael’s contract was much more detailed but this is not the point – whether primitive or complicated the contract clauses should still be consistent with each other and made according to rules. One clause cannot say that it is final, while another say that it is not. Things like that are simply NOT POSSIBLE in a contract.
As regards Michael’s catalog being completely protected it was indeed put into a Trust, but in case the matter was taken to court no Trust would protect a catalog from being acquired by another party if the judge ordered that it should.
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Here we go, Bad 25 on the way and all this garbage is being published. I didn’t hear any mention of drugs when I read about the emails, but it does appear like their trying to make it seem like Michael had alcohol problems. I don’t understand why Michael’s ability to perform is still a debate when the coroner said that Michael was in good shape and could have performed those 50 shows. There’s so much that he incorporated in that show when watching TII that I don’t believe he was being fully coerced.
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“He never worked on the AEG contract. He was hired by Allgood entertainment to become MJ’s manager and takes control of his finance.”
Indeed he could not work on the AEG contract because AEG alleged that it was signed in January 2009. But Leonard Rowe definitely discussed the financial matters and therefore dealt with the contract papers, and not of AllGood entertainment but those of AEG.
Quote from CNN:
But the same CNN transcript says that Rowe (same as Joe Jackson and Randy Jackson) was sure that Michael would not cope with the shows, voicing Joe Jackson’s opinion about his son:
This takes us to the conclusion which I myself would have never been able to think possible – the interests of AEG and part of the Jacksons coincide but are in opposition to Katherine Jackson’s and those of Michael’s kids.
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Even Patrick Allocco, from Allgood Entertainment, who was suing AEG, the Estate and Dileo said it.
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” If Michael is announced a “basket case” in the court of public opinion Michael Jackson’s shows will look like a hopeless case for AEG, and this is exactly what AEG wants.”
It’s the Jackson’s side of the story that MJ was a hopeless drug addict controlled by AEG. It’s the story that they were selling to the media from the beginning. Every interview that they did, except for Jermaine, was about his drug addcition. It’s Joe Jackson who told the world that his son was controlled by AEG.
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“I hate to put a damper on the AEG leaking these emails. Don’t forget the theme of the article points to AEG pushing a scared Michael to do more shows than he was capable of, which is the basis of Katherine’s lawsuit. ”
NO, guys, this is a misconception. Publishing these emails is not helping Katherine’s suit in any way. If Michael is announced a “basket case” in the court of public opinion Michael Jackson’s shows will look like a hopeless case for AEG, and this is exactly what AEG wants.
Even if technically some nitwit in the Jacksons’ family disclosed those emails, the source and instigator could be only the party opposing Katherine Jackson. And this party is AEG.
The result is already there. I’ve just read an article in the Russian Internet which claims that “Michael Jackson was done away with by alchohol and paranoia” http://news.rambler.ru/15363674/
Does Katherine want it? Absolutely not.
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“Why they never said it openly? Because it would really be too much. Throwing their brother into the mud in order to dispute his will? Even for Joe Jackson this would be a public suicide.”
I was speaking about the legal documents. And considering the facts that they had no problems selling stories about him being complete drug addict for years, selling stories about drug intervention in 2001, what would be the problems. If you read their interview the only thing they could talk about is his drug addiction.
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“Good question. But I think that Leonard Rowe had personal access to it since he was Michael’s manager for some time and was to take care of Michael’s finances (at least he said so in his book). So I think that Rowe risked disclosing it himself.”
He never worked on the AEG contract. He was hired by Allgood entertainment to become MJ’s manager and takes control of his finance.
When I spoke about a contract, I spoke about a contract I spoke about a typical showbizz, what is included in it? I know that there is stuff in that contract that should not be in it but what is a normal contract for a tour. I was also speaking about the catalog. I don’t remember what is exactly in the Prescient lawsuit but there is a part where the catalog is completely protected.
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“why they never spoke about that in their opposition to the Executor?”
Why they never said it openly? Because it would really be too much. Throwing their brother into the mud in order to dispute his will? Even for Joe Jackson this would be a public suicide.
But I cannot say that the Jackson are really spreading these views on purpose as that twitter blogger claimed. I simply don’t know though the idea itself didn’t sound that impossible. Unfortunately everything is possible, and there is nothing new under the sun.
I will try to find the text of that message if I stored it.
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“The only problem with that is you don’t know what is a normal contract, as I remember you have others people who have a different views than yours on that contract.’
Over here you are wrong. I KNOW what a normal contract is. I also know that AEG’s contract does not only contain unfavourable terms for Michael Jackson (which is deplorable but still acceptable from the point of view of business), but it is also extremely contradictory in all its parts – for example, the body of the contract contradicts its addenda and vice versa. And a proper contract does not allow any conflict of interest like the one they have over one lawyer shared by Michael and AEG, and contracts are not made in the form of personal letters to “Dr. Tohme Tohme”. A contract cannot say on one page that it is still to be finalized and claim on another page that it is already final. In short it cannot be such a mess, especially from a big corporation like AEG.
People who argued with me over some points are unable to dispute fundamental things like the above, so all we discussed was minor matters.
“And, by the way who leaked it? The contract is on Rowe’s book, who gave it to him?”
Good question. But I think that Leonard Rowe had personal access to it since he was Michael’s manager for some time and was to take care of Michael’s finances (at least he said so in his book). So I think that Rowe risked disclosing it himself.
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“Over there this person said he(she) knew very well that portraying Michael as a drug-addict was their idea, as this could enable them to show Michael off as incapable and dispute the will under this pretext.”
It could be about the Will it’s what I thought at the beginning, but if it’s about the Will then why they never spoke about that in their opposition to the Executor?
By the way, the Jackson were leaking story about Mj’s drug addiction probably before his death. Friedman had an article where Grace was isolating MJ from his family and giving drugs. That story is in Randy’s girlfriend deposition. Friedman claimed it was from a family friend.
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“The damage done by their own contract is their own doing, not someone else’s.”
The only problem with that is you don’t know what is a normal contract, as I remember you have others people who have a different views than yours on that contract.
And, by the way who leaked it? The contract is on Rowe’s book, who gave it to him?
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“I hate to put a damper on the AEG leaking these emails but this benefits the Jackson camp more than it does AEG”
The matter of who did it in my opinion is not that important. However the Jacksons’ own total misinterpretation of Michael’s behavior, lifestyle and habits is extremely important. If they really think that Michael was a drug-addict (or pretend to think so) it is horrendous.
Recently one of my friends sent me a link to a twitter account which evidently belongs to someone in the Jacksons’ family. Over there this person said he(she) knew very well that portraying Michael as a drug-addict was their idea, as this could enable them to show Michael off as incapable and dispute the will under this pretext.
If there is anyone standing behind this devilish scheme it could be only Joe Jackson in my opinion.
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“it does not mean that the main parties to the suit will immediately disclose all their secrets to these people.”
There are no secrets about those emails, there were already mentionned on Internet before that articles anyway.
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But that the point that you don’t understand is if KJ is a party to that lawsuit it means all the family is.
Why do you think the Jacksons always described MJ as the desperate drug addict? Why do you Janet went to the Murray trial only when Philipps testified, because that lawsuit is for their personal interest. Do you really believe that the siblings never talked to KJ’s lawyers or to KJ about that lawsuit?
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“My one comment did not show up where I said that if Michael was drunk at the announcement of the concerts I would sure like to have that part pointed out to me because I have watched that announcement over and over.”
Lynette, I’ve checked the spam filter, and there are no pending comments there, so you must have accidentally deleted it yourself.
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“Those emails are in the possession of the lawyers from both sides”
But Randy Jackson is not a party to the suit. Katherine Jackson is, but not Randy. Anyone who gets involved in the case in this or that capacity can hire a lawyer for himself, but it does not mean that the main parties to the suit will immediately disclose all their secrets to these people.
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“Will they include my private opinion into a lawsuit – that Michael was quite capable to do at least 10 shows if they were well spaced in time and if he slept of course?”
By the way, not only if you were pat of the lawsuit. The Estate used some comments on fan board during their lawsuit against Heal The World to prove their point.
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I hate to put a damper on the AEG leaking these emails but this benefits the Jackson camp more than it does AEG. I think we all know by now just how this works. When sealed documents are leaked they are usually skewed to benefit one side or the other. And don’t forget the theme of the article points to AEG pushing a scared Michael todo more shows than he was capable of, which is the basis of Katherine’s lawsuit.
My one comment did not show up where I said that if Michael was drunk at the announcement of the concerts I would sure like to have that part pointed out to me because I have watched that announcement over and over.As for them checking on Murray,I don’t think so or they would have been well aware of just how much he needed to get that job.He was a desperate man and he did everything he could to influence MJ into hiring him.
I Don’t know how many people realize this but it was in fact the family in particular Joe that started the drug addict business. He went on Larry King and started announcing it to the world the day after Mj died. Then Randy said they tried to have an intervention when we now know that the reason that the gates were crashed was because he wanted money. That and the fact that MJ specifically asked Frank Dileo to get rid of Leonard Rowe because when Joee found out there was going to be a comeback tour he was upset that he and the other boys were left out of it.There is an incedibly long history of that family using Michael for his money making power.
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“Again, why AEG would leak documents where they appear like big asshole?”
And who tells you that the leaked documents make AEG look like a big asshole? As regards their public image their own contract with Michael says it all. Just as they themselves predicted, when they were fighting the motion to unseal the document to the public, it did indeed leave a terribly negative impression of their practices. The damage done by their own contract is their own doing, not someone else’s.
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“Will they include my private opinion into a lawsuit – that Michael was quite capable to do at least 10 shows if they were well spaced in time and if he slept of course?”
If you were part of that lawsuit yes? You do know that everything is part of a lawsuit including what you said on twitter.
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“Shelly, anyone could say that Michael Jackson was a “basket case” (= a person or thing regarded as useless or unable to cope), but it is inconceivable to include someone’s private opinion into a lawsuit document.”
No, because in a lawsuit you have to give everything to the other sides. The Jackson’s ask for every email and communication AEG had about MJ, it’s how that email became part of that lawsuit.
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Because of his lawyers and because of KJ’s lawyers. Those emails are in the possession of the lawyers from both sides. It just mean that a lawyer leaked it that their client agreed with it.
Again, why AEG would leak documents where they appear like big asshole? For them it’s not only about Jacksons, it’s their public image. Do you really believe that they want to appear like a company who exploit their artists until they died?
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“The basket case comment is in an AEG lawsuit document”
Shelly, anyone could say that Michael Jackson was a “basket case” (= a person or thing regarded as useless or unable to cope), but it is inconceivable to include someone’s private opinion into a lawsuit document. I for one saw the “This is it” documentary and saw Michael tirelessly repeating one and the same routine again and again. And singing too. And dancing in a marvellous way. Will they include my private opinion into a lawsuit – that Michael was quite capable to do at least 10 shows if they were well spaced in time and if he slept of course?
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“The siblings are lots more than just witnesses. They were deposed and they had to give their financial records”
They may be more than just witnesses, but this is not the point. All those taking part in a lawsuit are not privy to the confidential information collected there as evidence. Only the lawyers of the two parties know about it. For example, the girls who supported Murray at his trial did not have access to the evidence seized from AEG even if both belonged to the same side of Murray’s defenders.
So how could Randy Jackson have access to 250 pages of emails between AEG employees is beyond my understanding.
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I was just giving you the name of the firm. It’s Baker & Hostetler. The fact that they are Randy’s lawyer came in the Randy’s girlfriend’s deposition.
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The basket case comment is in an AEG lawsuit document filed around 2010 and in another document filed this year. It’s publicly available you just have to buy it at the los Angeles Superior Court. The basket case comment was in an email from June 19th.
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“It’s the company which is on the jackson’s letter to the Estate. They were hired by Randy jackson for about a year now”
But the letter says that these lawyers are ready to take the place of the current Executors of the Estate. This has nothing to do with AEG and the confidential information sealed in the AEG case.
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“Then how do you explain, the fact that fans knew that people at AEG called MJ a basket case?”
Fans have a way of knowing it not from documents, but from the people who were witnesses to the horrendous way Michael was treated by AEG. There was even a letter published by an eye-witness to the rehearsals who said that they were embarrassed to see Michael being publicly humiliated so much. Kenny Ortega yelled at him, Randy Phillips yelled at him, and Michael was very much intimidated by their ways. How can a person feel in such a situation? Especially if he is the one who is ultimately to pay for the whole thing?
The correct word for it is bullying, and this is what they were doing to Michael – the man who the whole show depended on.
However we are talking of the documents which none of the fans had access to. There can be no doubt of it that the fans never saw any of the emails exchanged.
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“It just described someone who is in panic.”
Over here I agree. Not only was Michael afraid of a cool response his announcement would receive but I’ve also read that Michael was afraid of being shot. Also he didn’t know how people would react to him after that 2005 trial though he was fully acquitted there – there was (and still is) too much negative feeling towards him.
Michael’s fears were understandable. But despite all that the general tone of the article is very unkind towards him while being “understanding” towards AEG.
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The siblings are lots more than just witnesses. They were deposed and they had to give their financial records (or at least they were asked lots of questions about that) and all of their communications about MJ. Lots of their financial deals are becoming part of that lawsuit because the AEG side of that story is MJ was already a mess before they knew him and that partly because of the Jacksons.
The story where Randy crashed his car against the gate was not a drug intervention but it was because Randy wanted money for Don Stabler, who hired Dash from Prescient. It was said under oath by Randy’s girlfriend. Guess who were opposed to her deposition Randy, Jermaine and Janet.
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“But you say that Randy has his own lawyer in this lawsuit? And what is his position on this matter I wonder?”
It’s the company which is on the jackson’s letter to the Estate. They were hired by Randy jackson for about a year now
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“I realized that none of the papers on AEG could ever surface at the time.”
Then how do you explain, the fact that fans knew that fans actually knew that people at AEG called MJ a basket case?
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“They are part of that lawsuit. Why do you think Randy Jacksons have his own lawyer in that lawsuit. All the Jacksons were deposed or will be deposed. Then you forgot that those emails were part of the Murray trial so it could come from there too”.
But being deposed does not mean that the person has full access to all the documents. The person deposed is no more than a witness.
And Murray’s trial was intentionally kept apart from anything concerning AEG. Seeing how vehement David Walgren was in declaring irrelevant all Chernoff’s questions regarding AEG I realized that none of the papers on AEG could ever surface at the time. Chernoff did not manage to get a single reply to any of his questions about AEG – both the prosecution and the judge blocked even an attempt at it.
In these circumstances I doubt that Randy Jackson (or any other Michael’s siblings) could get those documents for themselves.
But you say that Randy has his own lawyer in this lawsuit? And what is his position on this matter I wonder?
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“The very first scene the article starts with is meant to convey this impression. And all of the rest of the article is done in the same style.”
No it didn’t. It just described someone who is in panic. Anyway, both side claimed that MJ was a drug addict and it had nothing to do with the Will, and they never claimed a drug addiction in their paper to contest the Will. The Jacksons always said that MJ was under pressure and a drug addict when he died because of AEG.
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“And is the evidence produced in the course of investigation made easily accessible to those who are not even part of the lawsuit? I mean Michael’s siblings? The evidence should be produced to the lawyers all right, but not to Randy Jackson.”
They are part of that lawsuit of that lawsuit. Why do you think Randy Jacksons have his own lawyer in that lawsuit. All the Jacksons were deposed or will be deposed.
Now, who spent the last 3 years feeding the media with that kind of that story., it’s the Jacksons Then you forgot that those emails were part of the Murray trial so it could come from there too.
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“If AEG allegedly knew that Michaels condition was so “bad” why on earth did they go on to increase the concerts to 50 and to a wolrld tour of 3 years?”
Kaarin, this was the first thought that came to my mind too.
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If AEG allegedly knew that Michaels condition was so “bad” why on earth did they go on to increase the concerts to 50 and to a wolrld tour of 3 years? I remember Randy Phillips making fun of Mj símulating him in a funny voice:(no more concerts,no more concerts) and also stating he would change his body for Michaels any time. An alternative would have been to go on with the concerts 10 to start with as was originally agreed.Instead they loaded Michael with an inhuman task and a totally onesided contract to ensure their own profits.Their unconsciuonable greed led to this and they did not count on the manslaughter as they showed a most indifferent attitude to Michael. Callous I would say.
Michael wanted the shows for his childrens sake, ut not this mega tour.Randy Phillips and Thome Thome were the architects of the devilisah contract.Both worked for AEG.Their intentions were far from pure.
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“There is no mention of MJ being an irresponsible drug addict.”
The very first scene the article starts with is meant to convey this impression. And all of the rest of the article is done in the same style.
“By the way, the article said it’s not from AEG”.
Do you refer me to this paragraph?
So all that correspondence was produced “as discovery in ongoing litigation”? And is the evidence produced in the course of investigation made easily accessible to those who are not even part of the lawsuit? I mean Michael’s siblings? The evidence should be produced to the lawyers all right, but not to Randy Jackson.
The way it looks to me the emails could come only from AEG as the original source. Of course we can also contemplate the exotic version that AEG provided Randy with the emails and he – in the absurdity of his behavior – leaked them to the press. Possible too.
But the major point is that I don’t see how these emails can “portray AEG in the negative light”. All these emails play into the hands of AEG, except one.
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“Isn’t it much more logical to assume that it was AEG who disclosed their own emails in order to show Michael an irresponsible addict and to justify their tough love towards him this way?”
There is no mention of MJ being an irresponsible drug addict. By the way, the article said it’s not from AEG. Why do you think they choose to call AEG’s lawyer? Because they choose to be fair, and they needed a statement from AEG’s lawyer.
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“The most to whom these documents could be available were 1) AEG aand 2) Katherine’s lawyers. So how could anyone from the Jacksons family obtain them? By hacking the lawyers computers? Breaking into their office?”
No, it just means that the Jackson’s lawyers leaked them. If you read the article it said it was leaked illegally, against the judge order. Why AEG would leaked something like that?
In that there is no mention of MJ having a drinking problem, just he was probably drunk during the press conference which is not the same thing at all. You have Philips screaming at someone who is probably drunk, then exploiting someone who is very depressed. Who do you think look bad, the guy who is probably under drugs and depressed or the guy who is exploiting him? Who spend the last 3 years claiming that MJ was a drug addict?
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“But over here I do not see how the Jacksons could get access to all those 250 pages of documents.”
Because it’s part of their lawsuit. In that lawsuit the discovery process is over which means that AEG already send those emails to the Jacksons.
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“I know that this has been said before but after seeing just how far that family especially Randy is willing to go no wonder these have been leaked. He doesn’t care how MJ comes out looking as long as the end result is money for Katherine that she can more easily give to him.”
The Jacksons probably leaked them, if it comes from them, because the AEG lawsuit isn’t going well for them.
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“the only one who look bad in that article is AEG”
Shelly, I think the only one who looks bad in this article is Michael Jackson.
However I do not rule out the possibility that someone in the family is also interested in declaring Michael a drug-addict or the one having a drinking problem (for example, in order to dispute his will). But over here I do not see how the Jacksons could get access to all those 250 pages of documents. The most to whom these documents could be available were 1) AEG aand 2) Katherine’s lawyers. So how could anyone from the Jacksons family obtain them? By hacking the lawyers computers? Breaking into their office?
Isn’t it much more logical to assume that it was AEG who disclosed their own emails in order to show Michael an irresponsible addict and to justify their tough love towards him this way?
However as regards the interests of some Jacksons and AEG, the sad thing is that as regards the “need” to portray Michael as an addict their interests coincide here.
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“Surely AEG “
Wrong, The Jacksons and the Insurance had it, it’s in the article when they claimed it was part of the discovery process, and the only one who look bad in that article is AEG. Remember that the Jacksons side of the story is that MJ was a drug addict and pressured by AEG to do the concerts. It’s exactly what is in the article.
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“There is.”
Which one, all the stuff about Randy Philips, the insurance were already on Internet 2 or 3 years ago.
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“who leaked that?”
Surely AEG (who else had the whole package of emails sent between themselves?). It is meant to cast Michael in a terribly negative light – “a drug-addict”, “a drinking problem”, etc. Look at the scene with which it starts and it will tell you why the article was released at all.
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“There is nothing new in that article, it was already posted 2 or 3 years ago.” – Shelly
There is.
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“See News report in LA Times re This Is It Tour and emails released re MJ’s physical and mental state between AEG officials, esp. Randy Phillips. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-aeg-jackson-20120902,0,6711027.story“
Aldebaranredstar, thank you for the link. It sent me to their comments section to write a couple of things about Michael and AEG. We need a proper post about it. I’ll try to make it later today.
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@ lynande51, I think you made a good guess. Of course, the media picks through the 250 emails for the worst stuff they can publish to make Michael look bad–this is how they operate. If there is an email in the pile saying he looks great, they will never publish it. I recall that in the Conrad Murray trial, the defense asked to see all 100 hours of taped rehearsals and the judge allowed it. They wanted to find videotape of Michael looking bad, but they found nothing! This is clearly a way to make AEG look like they knew Michael could not do the 50 concerts, etc. Randy Phillips sure missed the boat when he ‘checked out’ Conrad Murray. I agree that Randy Jackson will stop at nothing–he is super desperate. I wish the leaker of these sealed documents could be prosecuted.
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The emails that were leaked were attached to documents in one of two cases. One is the insurance carrier Lloyds of London and the other is KJ’s lawsuit against AEG.Since they were obtained by the LA Times my guess is the latter of the two lawsuits. The article even says that the case that the emails were obtained from is sealed and that would be the KJ lawsuit so if someone wanted to make the company look bad who better than someone from the family. sorry but that was one of their things that they listed when they wrote the letter to the Estate was they wanted to know why the documents were filed underseal which they should have been because the depositions include the kids.
I know that this has been said before but after seeing just how far that family especially Randy is willing to go no wonder these have been leaked. He doesn’t care how MJ comes out looking as long as the end result is money for Katherine that she can more easily give to him.
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It’s pretty much irrelevant to anything right now. What’s it for? To mention he died of drugs? He was self hating? He was too up himself to think over 130 million was not enough for him?
Just dragging up the past to spit on Michael’s…again. I think it’s all done strategically, cause it’s got a lot of attention from fans and haters…like everything else does. Remember the more MJ fans and haters go look, and lets face it, theres a lot on both sides, the more $$$ they get for it.
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“Why bring it up now? Wait, don’t tell me……to cast a negative light on Michael for no reason other than to sour the hype with Bad 25?”
Good question and who leaked that?
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Why bring it up now? Wait, don’t tell me……to cast a negative light on Michael for no reason other than to sour the hype with Bad 25?
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There is nothing new in that article, it was already posted 2 or 3 years ago.
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Aldebaranredstar ,thank you for the ref. to LA Times.I always felt Randy Phillips was a liar.
And so was the rest of AEG- a mafia. They should not get a penny for what they did.
Some jailtime would do them good too..
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I honestly don’t know what to make of that.
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See News report in LA Times re This Is It Tour and emails released re MJ’s physical and mental state between AEG officials, esp. Randy Phillips.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-aeg-jackson-20120902,0,6711027.story
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Tom b arrack has now been offered uo to 100mil for Neverland if he he sells it. several billionaires have asked. He is in no hurry.Says if they sell it the Estate has no rights?!
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“One of the trade secrets would have been acquiring other catalogues. If the seller knows that someone is very interested in a catalogue they can keep driving up the cost of the catalogue…The information that was denied Duross O’Brian was in possession of David LeGrand so he knew that there was more than one offer for that catalogue that went over one billion dollars. “
Lynette, sorry, I didn’t get it. Are you talking about Sony/ATV acquiring new catalogs and not disclosing their interest to others, or someone wanting to acquire the Sony/ATV catalog for a billion dollars?
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@lynande,
I know that and MJ had at least 2 offers. Sometimes I wonder if they realized how stupide they look. The guy was a world icon not an american icon. He could do business anywhere in thé world. I wonder job they felt when he sol every ticket for this is it within à few hours.
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Also part of the original deal with Sony in 1995/1996 was to help cover expensive production costs for MJ’s new album HIStory and that world tour. What he got upset with Tommy Mattola for was not covering the expenses of production, promotion and tour of Invincible. Michael might have spent a few million or two on his “stuff” throughout the years but most of his expenses brought on by that additional $72 million pertained to production costs because Michael always wanted to put on the biggest and the best shows and he was a perfectionist when it came to his albums.
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Shelly Duross O’Brian said that he tried to get the documents for the trust but Michael’s legal team got the Subpoena surpressed for the firm that held the Trust because of the trade secrets that were in that contract. One of the trade secrets would have been acquiring other catalogues. If the seller knows that someone is very interested in a catalogue they can keep driving up the cost of the catalogue that was to be purchased so if you read his testimony he does say that he was not given access to that information.The information that was denied Duross O’Brian was in possession of David LeGrand so he knew that there was more than one offer for that catalogue that went over one billion dollars.
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Thank you for all this valuable information..I didnt know all these details but I have always thought that people wanted to alienate Branca from MJ so they could take advantage of him .
I think had it not for Branca coming back , his assets would have been sold off at a fire sale
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Net publisher’s share
Net publisher’s share is, in the music industry, the amount of royalties received by a music publisher less any amounts of those royalties that have to be paid to writers, performers
and anyone else who receives a share of royalties.
Net publisher’s share can be useful in valuation as it is an indication of how big a music publisher is. The is similar to valuing a company on a revenue multiple such as EV/sales.
It is usually preferable to use profit multiples rather than revenue multiples, and net publisher’s share is a modified revenue number. It is also not a number that is always disclosed. In addition, music publishing is usually part of a larger music business (e.g. recorded music sales).
The royalty streams that a publisher receives include performance royalties, mechanical royalties and synchronisation fees.
http://moneyterms.co.uk/net-publishers-share/
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Shelly, if pro-forma shows projected figures, then I was correct in assuming that the figures in the right-hand column show the figures planned, while those on the left show their real results.
The difference is indeed impressive – the projected costs on management were $18 mln, while in reality they came to $40mln.
The projected cash to MJ Trust (the document says that the Trust was established to provide financing to Michael Jackson) was $73 mln, but Michael received only $12 which is $60 mln. less. Instead of the money due to Michael Sony gave him a credit for $9mln. (don’t know on which terms).
Now it is becoming clear that the conflict between Michael Jackson and Sony was due to too many expenses on managing the company and too little cash paid to him out of their net profit.
Document 12-8 of the Prescient lawsuit says about it:
This text of the lawsuit essentially says that Sony was receiving money for providing services to Sony/ATV (the sum was $32 mln bigger than the projected one), and Sony took out substantial money which may not be even related ot Sony/ATV to compensate for some of their other expenses.
We should make a mental note of this fact. It is interesting that the matter is being raised by Don Stadler and not Michael Jackson himself. The so-called engagement letter of Don Stadler does not have Michael’s signature on it.
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Maybe you should read the O’brien testimony, he was the financial expert for the prosecution in 2005. You can also ask some questions to Zack O’greenburg
He is writing a book on MJ finance and wrote the articles about the 4 Wills
About pro forma
Definition of ‘Pro Forma’
A Latin term meaning “for the sake of form”. In the investing world, it describes a method of calculating financial results in order to emphasize either current or projected figures.
Investopedia Says
Investopedia explains ‘Pro Forma’
Pro forma financial statements could be designed to reflect a proposed change, such as a merger or acquisition, or to emphasize certain figures when a company issues an earnings announcement to the public.
Investors should be careful when reading a company’s pro-forma financial statements, as the figures may not comply with generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP). In some cases, the pro-forma figures may differ greatly from the those derived from GAAP.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/proforma.asp
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“You have an example here http://i.imgur.com/RpyPg.png“
I am sorry, Shelly, I am not a financier, and not an accountant, so I cannot properly interpret this document. These are the only things I understand:
– evidently in the year 2004 the catalog generated $360mln (or is it by the year 2004?)
– out of this sum $251 mln. were paid to various singers and artists as royalties
– the share of publishers (Sony/Michael Jackson) was $109mln, so divided by two it should be roughly $55mln. for each of them
– cash given to MJ Trust was $12 mln, but according to “pro-forma” it is $73mln. However pro-forma means nothing, because it is “done as a formality only”. In my practice it was used for papers stating a symbolic sum accompanying a sample we sent to a prospective buyer for testing. But what does it mean here?
Does it mean that it was supposed to be $73 mln, but in reality was only $12mln?
Does it mean that management fees were supposed to be $18mln, but in reality were $40mln?
I’ve looked up EBITDA and see that it means “Earnings Before Interest, Tax, Depreciation and Amortization”. So these earnings were supposed to be $73 mln, but in reality were much smaller, only $42mln? Minus taxes after that?
Can anyone interpret this document? All I see here is that their earnings were lower than expected, and the management costs were much higher, right?
Can these high management costs be the reason for a conflict between Michael and Sony? (if I interpret it right?)
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“To find out the details all we need to know is the annual income it gave to Michael and how many years he needed to buy a catalog which cost an X sum.”
You have an example here
—
The author of the comment represents AEG’s views
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“Well the entire quote said that “The MJ Trust has borrowed a total of $272,500,000 to support the purchase of additional catalogs at Sony/ATV, and to support other various working capital needs.” One of the docs I send you said 72 millions was a line of credit so I guess he used the 72 millions for himself and used the 200 millions to buy other catalog.”– Shelly
I think that “other working capital needs” mean that this capital was to “work” too – for example, generate some income by being spent on an album (meant to give profit). It is absolutely not the same as spending money on some whims. In short it wasn’t his “lavish spending habits” the way the media described it, but a real business need.
Okay, even if “only” $200 mln. were taken as a loan to buy new songs it still shows Michael as a person who wanted to keep his catalog and was keen on expanding it. Now we know what to say to haters when they habitually accuse Michael of irresponsible squandering his money next time – Michael took those multi-million loans in order to invest in more songs!
I guess that it wasn’t just $200mln, but much more. Please correct me but the major part of the profit from the Beatles catalog could also be spent on further investments and this is why Michael most probably received little cash from his catalog. To find out the details all we need to know is the annual income it gave to Michael and how many years he needed to buy a catalog which cost an X sum. I think that that Forbes author is going to cover all of it in his book.
Of course Michael liked to spend a lot – why shouldn’t he? He had Neverland, albums to produce, he had to keep up a certain style, he liked making gifts and he spent a huge, a totally incredible amount of money on charity.
But all of it was well within his means, and it was only constant litigation which drained him of his cash. Brian Oxman and Thomas Meserau said that Michael was sued more than 1000 times! And each time lawyers were to be paid per hour, not to mention the settlements he often had to make too.
His longtime “friend” Marcel Avram alone sued him three times! And according to some reports Michael had to pay him $20mln. in the first suit – for canceling the Dangerous tour in 1993. Then suing Michael turned into Marcel Avram’s habit. At a certain point he filed a complaint against Michael even for “anticipatory breach of contract” (the contract not breached, but only anticipated to be breached). No wonder that some journalists called Michael “a one-man cottage industry for the legal profession”.
Here is an article about Marcel Avram’s lawsuits against Jackson. Marcel Avram had no reason for complaining – the 1999 concert in Munich was lousy from the point of view of its organization – the screen behind Michael was malfunctioning and the bridge on which Michael stood dropped from a big height. Michael continued with Earth song but was in great pain as he badly injured his spine. After a trauma like that (due to the organizers’ fault) he had the full right to refuse any further concerts – however Marcel Avram evidently did not consider himself responsible and filed another $20mln. suit agaisnt Michael!
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“So they say it absolutely directly that Michael borrowed money to be able to pay for adding new catalogs to the initial one?”
Well the entire quote said that
One of the docs I send you said 72 millions was a line of credit so I guess he used the 72 millions for himself and used the 200 millions to buy other catalog.
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“I don’t get the 1 billion dollars story. If you read the docs you posted., the value of the catalog at the time of the Prescient deal was 1,3 billions so why Sony would have to pay 1 billions for half of the catalog?”
Shelly, you were right. That billion story was some grave misconception on the part of a Topix author (what else could we expect of Topix?) I’ve also found information that the 25% share was to be passed over to Sony at a fixed price of $250mln (of course if they asked for it, which they never did).
Now the incorrect information was erased and this point amended.
If $250 mln made up 25% of the catalog, the figure of $537,500,000 allegedly sought by Michael, becomes understandable too. It was meant by Don Stadler (and Randy Jackson?) for buying out 50% Sony’s share in the catalog. And if 25% was $250mln, then the whole catalog was valued at one billion at the time.
And I was also a complete fool not to focus on the meaning of the quote you’ve sent:
“The MJ Trust has borrowed a total of $272,500,000 to support the purchase of additional cataloges at Sony/ATV”
So they say it absolutely directly that Michael borrowed money to be able to pay for adding new catalogs to the initial one? No “lavish style”, no “extravagant spending” – none of all that brought about those debts. It was the result of his fulfillment of the terms on which the deal was made from the very beginning of it!
Of course it was a great burden on Michael and a source of tension between him and Sony. But same as Sony, he also wanted the catalog to expand. We know it from the fact that Michael had the right to veto any decision by Sony, but did not do it when it came to adding new songs to the catalog.
Tomorrow I will amend the post with this information.
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“And last but not least here is a portion of the report that David LeGrand ordered in February of 2003 into MJ’s finances. This is the part about the investigation into John Branca. When you read this I think it will be clear just exactly who the hero is in Michael’s business life and it WAS and STILL IS John Branca. http://www.scribd.com/doc/44182289/Smear“
Lynette, I think we can believe what Branca is saying about Malnik according to this confidential report – it is a very interesting assessment of him. Roger Friedman’s glorious words about the offer Koppelman and Malnik made to Michael always seemed to me over-exaggerated and untrue. It was probably a kind of an open promotion of their plan in hope that Michael would read and go for it.
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FYI –A Forbes writer just announced he is doing a book on Michael’s business and financial dealings, to be published in 2014.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomal…l-jackson-inc/
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From Defending a King ( page 148) “On one occasion, the boss’s brother Randy surprised and worried the security guards with his sudden appearance at the Summerlin estate. Before they realized what was happening, Boyd and Baron watched a large vehicle crash through the front gate and drive around the circular driveway. It came to an abrupt stop near them. Boyd drew his weapon and prepared to open fire when he noticed that the invading vehicle’s occupants were Randy Jackson, who was the driver, and a female companion in the passenger seat. From the open window of his car Randy yelled out, insisting on seeing his brother Michael. He shouted something about Michael owing him a lot of money. . . . Boyd, doing his job, confronted Randy politely but firmly, Randy responded by threatening to call the media. . . . ” after Randy leaves, the guards tell Michael about the incident. “He seemed afraid . . . of his own younger brother. . . . For the next several days, there were no security details to run or errands to complete for the boss. Mr. Jackson secluded himself in the house without any word heard from him.”
This account is pretty creepy–that Randy would do something like this and that Michael would be afraid of him and hole up secluded in the house for a few days.
It seems there was also some bullying in the effort to get Michael to sign when Randy and Stabler wanted him to do so re the Fortress/Prescient deal.
It seems sometimes certain family members pick the times when Michael is facing an ordeal and is the most vulnerable to try and take control of him to their advantage, rather than unselfishly trying to help and support him.
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“Oh and just like every other lawsuit brought against Michael from 1993 on it had questions pertaining to the allegations in a deposition.”
It’s because they had a weak case, so why not taint the jury?
“About Randy, I am wondering if this anger is the cause of his crashing the gates of Michael’s Las Vegas Summerlin home with his SUV, which the security guards said he did. He also yelled out to Michael, who did not come out of the house, ‘You owe me money!”
Ivy bought docs from the AEG lawsuit and Randy’s girlfriend was deposed
“- Vegas event. Taunya says she and Randy went to see Michael for a business matter. Bodyguards did not open the gate so they waited until someone came in and they drove right behind them and parked at the front door and asked to see Michael. Bodyguards did not allow it, according to Taunya they were “belligerent and aggressive”. Randy later called Joe Jackson who came and was upset that the bodyguards was coming between brothers. Taunya says they wanted to leave but bodyguards was blocking their way. They let them out a few hours later. Taunya is asked about to explain the “business matter” they went to see Michael for, she replies “it was a financial matter”. She makes it clear that visit was not an intervention attempt. AEG asks “is it about Michael Jackson owing Randy Jackson money?” Taunya refuses to answer.
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/96284-Katherine-amp-MJ-s-kids-sue-AEG-Trial-date-delayed-to-April-2-2013/page152
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Oh and just like every other lawsuit brought against Michael from 1993 on it had questions pertaining to the allegations in a deposition. I would think that all deposition questions would have to pertain to the matter at hand but then why not force him to settle if you could leverage him unjustly with the threat of questions.
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That’s right Shelly Randy had no right to do that. He more or less made the deals behind MJ’s back at the time because MJ was focused on the Arvizo trial and preventing having his children taken away from him. The funny thing is about the Prescient Acquisition deal is that MJ didn’t know anything about it until Stabbler and Randy started pressuring him to sign this deal with Fortress. I don’t know if Randy even knew what he was doing in this case because the fact is he just is not that business savvy but what is even worse is that after Mj’s death Stabbler sued the Estate and Randy swore in a deposition that MJ owed Stabbler the money.What part of the fact that it was settled already does he not get? Probably the part where he never got any money out of almost losing the entire Estate of Michael Jackson.
Michael knew before he died that his Trust was heavily leveraged and he had to bring inpeople to help him keep the catalogue and that was Branca and McClain.He knew that they would be able to work with Sony to rebuild this empire and what Michael wanted in the first place was to have an empire in the music industry. What the Estate Trustee’s have done is secure that part of Michael’s dream.With his MiJac catalogue now under the same roof as the Sony ATV catalogue it is secure form people that don’t care about Michael Jackson like Warner Chappel and others. When they renegotiated the deal in 2007 it protected it,it didn’t harm it in anyway.
I think one of the things that inspired the siblings letter to the Estate was the fact that they (the estate) had taken control of the catalogue from Warner where it was about to be up for sale.We see that though the catalogue generates a lot of revenue what is generating the most revenue are in fact MJ’s own catalogue when you think if the deals that were made since his death.
I have a question though when you consider all of these things about the deals that went on behind MJ’s back I have to wonder now what kind of deals Randy has been making behind the Estates back for him to become as vicious as he has.I wonder if most of this that is happening is an attempt to undermind that success of some of the best deals that were ever made posthumously for an artist. Think of when Randy nonsense started and what is coming up and I think the answers are all right there because everytime a good business announcement comes up regarding the Estate up come some controversy started by some family member.
I don’t think that anyone in that family should have anything to say about MJ’s business dealings because all they have done up until now is cost him money in settlements against him.Randy has had his shot at taking over now he should just go sit down and be quiet because anyone that has read that trust document can see that Michael intention always was and always will be that it belongs to his children.
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Yes, Randy was his manager and he introduced Don Stabbler who worked on the Prescience deal even though he didn’t have the right to do it.
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Thanks so much, Helena. I think I need a flow chart to understand it all–wow! It is very complicated with all the players and deals and almost-deals, but what comes through loud and clear is that hanging on to the ATV/Sony catalogue was in the long-term best interests of Michael and his estate and his heirs. It’s also good to understand that the Estate is not doing the traditional thing, just pay the debts, and see what’s left to distribute (if anything), but is actively protecting and buttressing the assets for the long term. They have a lot on their plate.
About Randy, I am wondering if this anger is the cause of his crashing the gates of Michael’s Las Vegas Summerlin home with his SUV, which the security guards said he did. He also yelled out to Michael, who did not come out of the house, ‘You owe me money!” This was in Defending a King by K. Moriarty. This incident happened after Michael returned to USA from Ireland. Security guards said the Michael was ‘scared’ and did not come out of the house for a few days. I am wondering how much power Randy had during the 05 trial. Was he Michael’s official manager?
It is amazing to me that Michael offered to sell his stake in Sony/ATV to Burkle–isn’t that a big switch from all previous years–?? I am shocked.
Yes, there were plenty of sharks circling the water. “Everyone wanting a piece of Michael Jackson. They want to see that I fall ’cause I’m Michael Jackson.” I think the stock market was doing pretty well in that time–the fall didn’t happen til 07-08–so any investors were making good returns on their investments. Wanting $48 million for making a lousy deal is pretty amazing. 9.5% interest on million dollar loans is probably what did Michael in more than anything. That was NOT a good deal at all–and to expect millions for arranging such a deal is wrong. How did it go up to 16.5%–maybe because of penalties for lack of payment? I know one time I was late and my rate shot up to 25%–unbelievably punitive–luckily, I got it changed back to what it was.
I agree some fans go with the simplistic view, maybe b/c it’s easier to handle than all the in-depth complicated realities.
I agree Friedman is not a reliable source and not a sympathetic one either.
Thanks so much for all this!!
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Shelly the Billion Dollar figure comes from this proposal by Goldman Sacs/ Charles Koppelman via Al Malnik. Here is an overview of the Goldman Sachs Proposal and it blatantly says the Michael would have to forfeit his publishing catalogue to Goldman Sachs/ Charles Koppelman but that it would get MJ out of debt. So it is this that was considered the billion dollar proposal by people that did not understand the world of finance. This is the proposal that MJ rejected on the recommendation of John Branca. All that proposal and the ensuing $70 million loan naming Al Malnik a Trustee did was add to Michael’s debt.
Click to access 43790300-michael-jackson-bill-gates.pdf
Click to access 43788454-jackson-s-goldman-loan.pdf
As for Koppelman not being after MJ I believe it was his inside information on the loan defaulting that lead to the acquisition of the loan to Fortress Investments. It was a former associate with Goldman Sacs that was the head of Fortress Investments. Because of this information I think it is reasonable to think that Koppelman information about the loan led to Fortress Investments Peter L. Briger Jr. knowing in advance when exactly they could offer to buy out the BOA loan. I think this because MJ rejected the Goldman Sachs proposal in August of 2003 and that gave them 3 months to work out the deal with BOA
.
“Their principals are Peter L. Briger Jr., formerly with Goldman Sachs, plus Wesley R. Edens, Robert I. Kauffman, Randal A. Nardone and Michael E. Novogratz — all with substantial backgrounds in finance
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155529,00.html#ixzz24xHvpGuR”
http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/inside-secrets-goldman-deal-22479
And last but not least here is a portion of the report that David LeGrand ordered in February of 2003 into MJ’s finances. This is the part about the investigation into John Branca. When you read this I think it will be clear just exactly who the hero is in Michael’s business life and it WAS and STILL IS John Branca.
Sorry for this last comment because today should be a happy birthday message to Michael.
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Lynande, what do you mean? Thé lawsuit said there was 272 millions for mis debt and 200 millions to buy Sony’s share offre the catalog
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And since I sincerely believe that Schaffel was Friedman’s source during the trial ( he did that because it was in his OWN best interest to get Michael off of the conspiracy charge) I will correct something else he said. The documents that show that Michael owed him money were generated on a home computer by none other than Schaffel himself.In the Schaffel lawsuit it was proven that Schaffel back dated check on the Neverland Valley Entertainment for his own personal use. He had Michael enter into a business agreement forming a partnership between him and Michael in September of 2001 to produce the video that would accompany the song What More Can I Give. They formed a business called Neverland Valley Entertainment so that they could circumvent the loan restricitions put on MJ by the BOA loan. Then Michael fired him in on November 14th 2001 after Ziaa Modabber showed him what Schaffles real line of work was,a gay porn producer. Schaffle said that he back dated checks for the production costs of the video that he was producing so he would not be held accountable for them.However it was proven by a forensic accountant that Schaffle actually used the money he had written to himself for his own personal use of purchasing a house in Calabasas CA. Schaffle was a crook then and is still a crook now because he has partnered with Howard Mann to use some kind of undue influence on Katherine Jackson in the now defunct Jackson Secret Vault.He was actually trying to sell back video footage of the family that he was given permission to use in the rebuttal film “The Footage You Were Never Meant To See.’. I think it might be illegal for him to try to sell what rightfully belongs to Michael and or his Estate.
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@ Shelly
Michael would not have needed the entire $500 million to purchase the entire catalogue he only would have needed a minimum of 20% down to take over then payments to go to the entire loan of $500 million.It was also supposed to add liquidity to his holdings.
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Thank you Helena for writing this. Since the family debacle in July I have been far to busy at work to write but intended to show everyone the part of Randy in the spiral down of MJ’s finances.It is also important to know that the CEO of Fortress Investments at the time was formerly with Goldman Sachs so he knew ahead of time when that Bank of America loan would be in default so he had time to work the deal once he sent someone in there.However today I think it is important for everyone to remember Michael as the greatest artist,humanitarina and businessman (with the help of John Branca and John McClain) of our time.
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A very good article, it really does shed some light on the last ten years of Michael’s life. He was such a strong person to endure so much at the same time.
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“And this attitude is even much better than the 1 billion explanation. If you insist that it is not in the Prescient papers I will erase it”
I don’t know if it’s in the documents, there are tons of docs available and I didn’t read everything but I don’t get the 1 billion dollars story. If you read the docs you posted., the value of the catalog at the time of the Prescient deal was 1,3 billions so why Sony would have to pay 1 billions for half of the catalog?
“Since inception of Sony/ATV, which was originally valued at $930,000,000, the partners have agreed to acquire about $400,000,000 of additional music catalogs.”
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I have lots of others documents, if you are interested.
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Did you get the documents I send to you yesterday?
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Oh, I see now that you’ve sent me the documents by email! Shelly, thank you so much for all the trouble you took! Considering the number of them they will require a big new study!
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“in that lawsuit one of the document said MJ had the possibility to buy Sony’s share for 200 milliobns dollars, so I really doubt the 1 billion dollars story”.
Shelly, since you have the documents of the Prescient lawsuit and I don’t, you know better than I do. I relied on the person who said he read those hundreds of pages but if you say it is not there I’ll take it away.
This information is not actually that important – it showed Sony as a company which did not buy out half of Michael’s share because it could not raise the billion dollars. However if the stake was much lower ($200-$250mln) it means that they could have raised that sum much easier but nevertheless did not do it.
So the motive for not buying half of Michael’s share was not a financial one – they did not snatch it from Michael because they still wanted him to keep it or wanted him as a partner or were his friends, or whatever along the same lines.
And this attitude is even much better than the 1 billion explanation. If you insist that it is not in the Prescient papers I will erase it.
If you come to think of it if we manage to find the truth about Sony it will be the best present to Michael on his birthday. At least one suspect in scheming against Michael will be out. And a sort of justice will also be done – this time for Sony.
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Another point, in that lawsuit one of the document said MJ had the possibility to buy Sony’s share for 200 milliobns dollars, so I really doubt the 1 billion dollars story.
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This is from the Prescient lawsuit according to Ivy
Stabler : I got a call from Taunya who said Grace said Michael did not want to have the meeting. Randy talked to Taunya & said “fuck that”
Stabler : Randy said we are having this meeting, We’ve gone through a lot of trouble for it. I’ll take care of it when we get there.
Randy asked us to stay in the car, he went in and spoke with Michael , later come out and said the meeting is on.
Michael looked at the document we gave him and said “I’m not signing any document that asked me to give part of my catalog”
Randy tried to explain the docs to him, Sydow said he’ll go through it line by line. Michael said he didn’t want to go through it
Before Randy can say anything Michael said “you know I don’t want any violence”.
Randy tried to go through the document with Michael but Michael was just not having it. I suggested Randy that we leave.
In the car Randy said my brother has been drinking. 20 mins later Grace called me and said Michael said to go meet Ron Burkle.
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Guys, I apologize to all of you for making this particular post on Michael Jackson’s birthday. It was meant to come much earlier, but there was so much material to study that I got drowned in it.
I was also in very much doubt whether I should post now or later – but then decided to hurry up to get rid of the unpleasant subject and not to return to it afterwards. This is the opinion in the dispute between Randy Jackson and the Estate I myself came to, and it is absolutely unnecessary to discuss it further (if no one wants to).
To mark Michael’s birthday there will be another post today, made by a totally new contributor to this blog – Susanne, whose article is indeed marvellous and is only waiting for the proper headline to it. Please give us a little time to finish it off.
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