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The misuse of Michael Jackson and Propofol by Murray and AEG

March 8, 2013

“Propofol is safe, but Conrad Murray was not” 

Sometimes we need to come back to a topic when we learn something new about it or when we happen to make an experience in connection with it. It can be amazing when things we have written and talked about suddenly affect us personally and give us new insights, confirmations or recollections.

These recollections now will come back especially with the upcoming trial against AEG, and we will also remember the trial against Murray and the way Michael died. 

But before I come to this topic I have to start with a story about my sister.

I have a sister who suffers from PKU (phenylketonuria), a genetic metabolic disorder which leads to mental retardation by the amino acid phenylalanine which accumulates in the body because it cannot be metabolized. Today a mental retardation mostly can be avoided because through newborn screening the disease can be detected immediately after birth and the children receive a strict Phe-less or low-protein diet, usually their whole life. However, when my sister was born – in 1962 – the newborn screening did not yet exist in Germany. It was only found out what she suffered from when she was 2 years old, her brain was already damaged. The phe-less diet was started too late. So unfortunately my sister is disabled and cannot speak – only a few words. She is afraid of medical treatments because 12 years ago she was very sick and almost died. But she is a very lovely person, always in a good mood, smiling, trusting, and we can communicate with her very well. She understands many things we tell her and is very attentive to everything that happens around her.

And the most important thing is: She is singing the whole day. She has one huge talent and that is music. She hears a song once – and can sing the melody immediately. And she has a feeling for different genres of music. Well, we are a musical family and she learned to listen to all kinds of music through us. But it’s just amazing, how she sings chorales of Johann Sebastian Bach as well as blues songs of B.B. King and Muddy Waters. She sings Eric Clapton, Bob Dylan and Joan Baez as well as the famous Hallelujah of Händel’s “Messiah”. She loves R&B as well as Irish folk or baroque or church music.

And, of course, she loves Michael’s music, who combined several music genres. She knows every song by heart and expresses great joy when I play his songs. She even knows the sequence of the songs on the albums by heart and starts singing the next song before it begins to play. I am 100% sure that Michael would have been very impressed by her if he had known her. She literally cannot live without music, it must play the whole day and she complains when someone turns it off.

But this is just the introduction to this post. I wanted to make understandable why my sister needs a sedation for a dental treatment. In fall last year we realized that she needed to have her teeth checked. This is always a problem because she doesn’t open her mouth. I am her legal guardian and so I looked for a dentist who would treat her with the help of an anesthesiologist. This is not always easy because the treatment is more complex, needs more time and patience as usual. Of course, she doesn’t understand what’s going on, is afraid and tries to resist a treatment. She is crying and sometimes screaming. It can be nerve-racking.

The documents for my sister’s anesthesia said that it would be deep sedation with Propofol

But then I found a wonderful dentist who really cared. He arranged for an appointment with an anesthesiologist who worked with him, and they were both very kind-hearted and understood the problem. We discussed the procedure and I had to sign the documents for anesthesia.

It said: “Deep sedation with propofol.”

I wasn’t surprised and it was okay for me. I am working at a university children’s hospital and I know that many of our children are sedated with propofol when they need a cardiac catheter or an MRI for diagnostics.

However, at that time I didn’t know that I eventually would be present when the sedation is carried out. The appointed day was the 21st of December of last year, the day when the world was supposed to end. Well, I knew that in reality it was meant as the beginning of a new cycle, and that’s what I exptected it would be for us, too, because we would be very glad when we finally got over with it right before Christmas.

I hoped I could avoid being present, I shied away from seeing her being sedated. But it was clear that someone would have to hold her because she would try to resist.

We brought her to the dental chair, my mother held her one arm, and I held the arm where the cannula was placed to inject the propofol. And so I witnessed the direct effects of propofol with my own eyes.

Within seconds of pushing the syringe my sister was motionless and knocked out. No way someone can do it him/herself. She was knocked out before the syringe was completely pushed to the end. I could see the effect at first in her eyes. Her eyes suddenly ossified and stayed open. The lids only became a little heavy. And then her mouth opened automatically. We then went outside and the dentist began his treatment, but when I left my sister I saw her like Michael’s assistants described it – with fixed open eyes and open mouth.

However, it was a wonderful feeling to know that the anesthesiologist stayed at my sister’s side for the procedure and watched her breathing, ready to intervene in any case of complication. I wasn’t there when they finished and she awoke, because I had to go to work. But my mother told me that she was awake very quickly, they just sat with her for a while in the waiting room before they took her home – altogether she was at the dentist’s for barely 2 hours.

When my mother also described me how caring the anesthesiologist was, that he even dressed her with her jacket, zipped it, and walked with her to the door to make sure she is alright, I thought: If only Michael had had such a doctor.

I can only say: Propofol can be a blessing. It’s so helpful for cases like my sister or for the kids in our children’s hospital, who would be scared to death without being sedated in case of very grave diagnostic methods and treatments. I was nervous before we went to the dentist and it was a bit odd to watch this situation, but now I am glad I could see all this. It seems so normal now to me that a substance like propofol is used for the benefit of patients.

Afterwards at work I talked with two of our doctors about the use of propofol, and they both confirmed to me how useful and popular it is. One of them even called it a “blockbuster” because everybody prefers it now to former anaesthetics. The experience also made me somewhat emotional and I had trouble to sleep the following night. The picture of my sister on the dental chair switched with Michael’s picture all the time. It’s so incredible that Murray left him alone in this state and didn’t care. And it’s strange that the substance that killed Michael is such a blessing for everybody else.

But it was good for me to get the confirmation with my own eyes that in reality it wasn’t the substance that killed Michael, but a person who did it the wrong way, an entertainment company that apparently put a lot of pressure on him – and on a larger scale the mankind that was so cruel to him.

To remind us of what really happened to Michael when he died, I want to repeat the judgment of Dr. Raphael Gershon, Chief of Anesthesiology at Grady Memorial Hospital, on Conrad Murray in an interview with CNN. He said that it isn’t the matter of propofol per se as it is a very safe medicine to use in a proper setting – it is the matter of the “wrong person doing the wrong thing in the wrong way and in the wrong setting”.

It is the matter of the wrong person doing the wrong thing in the wrong way and in the wrong setting.

We can find the statement in this blog’s post of 28th September 2011:  

We have to remember this and not be afraid of any use of this anesthetic in our own life by real professionals.

I also want to remind us of the interview with former Deputy DA Hamid Towfigh (Link to Jane Velez-Mitchell talking to Hamid Towfigh: )

Towfigh: In their opening statement of the defense they are telling us if their theory was based on self-injection or self-ingestion by swallowing the propofol. That’s very interesting. But under both reasons they’ll fail.

First of all propofol or deprivan is only vial available [ ] If you swallow propofol it will not cause the reaction of death. That’s in the medical literature, you can ask Dr. Sanjay Gupta about this.

Velez-Mitchell: What about Michael Jackson somehow making an injection or opening the drug?

Towhigh: This is not possible, because according to the Coroner’s report Michael Jackson had a general anesthesia level of propofol in his blood. If you ask anesthesiologists they’ll tell you it is about 200 mg or higher of propofol. The syringes that were in the room of Michael Jackson were 10cc syringes which is the equivalent of 100 mg. That means that he would have had to inject himself twice 200 mg of propofol to get the levels that the coroners said he had.

That is not possible, because after the first dose that Michael Jackson supposedly gave himself, he would have passed out.

And besides propofol is a very painful drug. That’s why they mix it with lidocaine. Michael Jackson had lidocaine in his system. They mix propofol with it because when it goes into your body it’s very painful. So had Michael Jackson self-administered this (which he didn’t) he would have screamed [ ] and Conrad Murray would have heard him in the other room.

Velez-Mitchell: I think that what you are saying is brilliant. [ ] He had so much propofol in his system according to the autopsy report that it was enough for major surgery. He would have had to use two bottles [in a shot, drip or whatever]. And at the time of administering the first one he would have been knocked out so that he couldn’t have been awake to administer the second one. Is that what you are saying?

Towfigh: Exactly.

Velez-Mitchell: Wow!

 Why MJ cannot have administered propofol by himself is described very well also in this post by Helena, who did a great job in covering the Murray trial in 2011:

Dr. Steven Shafer – key witness and brilliant propofol expert at the Murray trial – said that one of the reasons he reviewed the Murray case without being charged was that as a practicing anesthesiologist he now hears patients say to him again and again, “Are you going to give me the drug which killed Michael Jackson?”

It was Dr. Shafer’s personal interest to dispel the fear many patients have acquired after Murray’s deeds. In my case he was successful. I never doubted his explanations. And this also helped my sister, so I want to express my thanks to Dr. Shafer for making this decision easy for me.

Dr. Barry L. Friedberg, another well-known anesthesiologist, said: “The general public has been needlessly traumatized over the safety of propofol. I have said from the outset that propofol is safe, but Conrad Murray was not.”

On January 18, 2013, Dr. Barry L. Friedberg posted on his website:

“We do not blame the automobile for the reckless drunk driver’s deaths. By his own public admission, Conrad Murray was reckless by giving Jackson propofol & leaving the room.

Hundreds of millions of patients worldwide have safely received propofol because someone was watching them breathe & monitoring their oxygenation.


Conrad Murray was practicing as a cardiologist with hospital privileges to catheterize & stent diseased coronary arteries under propofol sedation & pulse oximetry. Despite this knowledge, he chose to buy the cheapest pulse oximeter monitor for Jackson – one that made no sounds & had no alarms.

Clearly, Murray does not believe the normal safety measures apply to his practice, behavior that defines him as a sociopath that never again deserves a license to practice medicine.”  

When Dr. Shafer called Murray’s deviations from the standard of care unconscionable, I think this assessment also applies to the people of AEG Live, who treated Michael apparently with the same ethical violations of his rights as a human being. The tone of AEG’s attorney Marvin Putnam says it all:

“The most important thing to note is that Michael Jackson asked AEG Live to be his concert promoter, not his sobriety coach. AEG never assumed a duty to protect Michael Jackson from his longstanding private demons or from his longtime doctor,” lead defense attorney Marvin Putnam, a Los Angeles partner at O’Melveny & Myers, wrote in an e-mail to The National Law Journal. ”  

This and the exploitation of Michael by AEG is also very apparent from this leaked email Paul Gongaware wrote 11 days before Michael’s death, obviously because Murray didn’t send him to rehearsals:

“We want to remind (Murray) that it is AEG, not MJ, who is paying his salary. We want to remind him what is expected of him.”

By the way, did Michael Jackson really ask AEG Live to be his concert promoter? Wasn’t it the other way round? Didn’t AEG ask Michael several times to do a concert series with them when Michael was not ready to do it? Randy Phillips himself told it. They persuaded Michael to do the shows together with those who told him he is broke.

AEG Live probably put so much pressure on Michael and also on Murray to get Michael ready for the rehearsals and the shows that propofol was used as means to an end to reach their goal. Propofol was misused the same way Michael was misused. And both are a blessing for mankind and should be treated with respect.

56 Comments leave one →
  1. March 8, 2013 2:51 pm

    Susanne, thank you so much. It is a wonderful reminder that what is an indispensable tool at a kitchen or dinner table will turn into a weapon only in a hand that kills.

    The knife itself is not to blame – it all depends on how you use it.


  2. March 8, 2013 4:02 pm

    I think that in the fall of 2008 Michael’s camp contacted AEG and said that MJ might be willing to go on tour again. Also, I have to say that through experience, I know that a physician is bound to put his/her patient first…just as Dr. Shafer so eloquently explained at trial. Regardless of pressure, no matter how severe, it must not persuade, conjole, influence a physician in patient care. Lots of docs face financial pressures but are still bound by their first duty. This is where the felon failed miserably. And this is why he is absolutely responsible for that death. If AEG is guilty, then so is every manager, lawyer, handler, law agency, previous docs, friends, family and even some fans who used/abused Michael for years. They are just the last in a long line.


  3. Alison Maleski permalink
    March 8, 2013 10:30 pm

    thank you Suzanne. I, too, knew that it wasn’t the propofol that killed Michael. It was the other medications that Murray had pumped into his body. It was all the sedative type of medications. The medications that end in -am or -pam. That is what killed him. And I commend Katherine Jackson and Michael’s children for filing a suit against AEG and Murray. I sure hope that they win and justice can be done on behalf of Michael.


  4. lynande51 permalink
    March 8, 2013 11:10 pm

    Michael’s breathing was supressed because of the benzos but it was stopped because of the propofol. He reached a state of deep sedation requiring ventilation and Murray was not in the room to even notice. By the time he did notice that Michael wasn’t breathing his heart had to have stopped because he started compressions immediately. You don’t do compressions on a beating heart you do rescue breathing on people who have stopped breathing. IF it had only been a few minutes he would have been able to do that rescue breathing until Michael started breathing again on his own.
    Michael was dead when he finally got off the phone to realize it. The question is just how long was he down before he even came back into the room? Everything he says must have been a lie even his version of his ” heroic” attempt to save Michael.

    Murray had been dripping that stuff in every night for weeks on end and he did it because he was reminded that he was to do whatever it took to get Michael to rehearsals.


  5. Susannerb permalink
    March 9, 2013 1:20 am

    “Murray had been dripping that stuff in every night for weeks on end and he did it because he was reminded that he was to do whatever it took to get Michael to rehearsals.” lynande51

    Absolutely! And I agree that Michael must have died before Murray came back from all his business, before the paramedics arrived and long before he was brought to hospital. Murray knew it exactly and immediately made up his version of events.


  6. March 9, 2013 1:44 am

    I am glad to see many doctors on KJ.s expert witness list. There is one on the list that mentions sports medicine, ie musculosceletal issues.
    I wish they had some one addressing the contra couching they exposed Michael to. Just the opposite that is done for athletes and other performers. Remember Dr. Shafer said he testified free because he felt Murrays behaviour cast a shadow on the whole medical profession.

    And thank you for the article about your sister susannarb. Also I think Helena did a good analysis of the contract when this blog was first started.


  7. lynande51 permalink
    March 9, 2013 1:46 am

    It wasn’t even immediately that he made up that story. It took him two days before he gave a statement to police and by that time he had lawyered up. Two days and a lawyer or two later can make it a very different story by that time.


  8. March 9, 2013 2:44 am

    I have said this many times, that I am very suspicious and find it hard to believe that a cardiologist trained in heart care, didn’t know about compressions on a hard surface, or never on someone still alive with a heart rate of 122 b.p.m., breathing/oxygen ventilation and not to leave his patient alone while sedated. I really smell a rat. How did Murray get away with it? Makes no sense to me.


  9. March 9, 2013 2:57 am

    I should have said ‘get away with murder’, of course.


  10. March 9, 2013 3:24 am

    No need to believe even one word of what Murray told the police 2 days later. He was probably texting to the insurers that all is fine while Michael was already dead. Then he heated up the room .You know time of death is often estimated in the temperature of the body.


  11. March 9, 2013 3:49 am

    Couple of things: Since the coroner ruled that the cause of death was propofol intoxication and since Dr. Shafer very eloquently explained how that happened, I do think there is no question as to COD.

    Also, Murray was an office, hospital based cardiologist (maybe not certified). Therefore, he would have rare occasion to utilize CPR skills. His actions and non-actions on that morning had everything to do with panic because he knew his patient was dead and reflected his attempts at covering up his incompetence. And, as we know, he lied to EMS, ER docs and to law enforcement.

    And, again, a physician has a higher duty to put his patient first. AEG or any organization that applies pressure for whatever reason is secondary to the doctor/patient relationship.
    AEG is not responsible for Michael’s death, as much as many people, including the family, would like to believe. That falls directly on the felon’s shoulders and is why he should have been hounded for every penny he makes in the future.


  12. Sina permalink
    March 9, 2013 5:54 am

    AEG is an accomplice in the circumstances that led to Michaels death.

    They took advantage of a man in a vulnerable position who they knew and madeclear too in no uncertain terms , had no way out. They could and should have known that a doctor who needs a heartmachine and a nurse /assistance needs it for a PATIENT not for an artist who in a few weeks time was supposed to take off on a long running series of concerts. His first in 12 years.

    They supervised a doctor who they could and should have known was not treating his patient appropriately, ethically nor medically AND that any procedure he was treating Michael with was specifically and solely to fulfill his duties to them, not for any other purpose. They were not naïve to think that Michael always had a doctor around 24/7 for that amount of money.

    They knew that there would be problems with the insurance. I think the only reason why Murray was weaning Michael off the propofol and other medication was so he could pass the medical exams for AEGs Insurance.

    ‘THE FAMILY ‘s claim is supported by a judges ruling, who saw enough ground for a trial. This will be decided in court and not by public opinion. I hope they win.

    Murray is serving his sentence albeit a ridiculous one for the crime he comitted. AEG should pay with what THEY are worth. Michael paid with his life.


  13. lynande51 permalink
    March 9, 2013 6:02 am

    Yes that is true Lauren but the negligence comes from them hiring him without that obvious background check they say they did. Then when they saw things going wrong with Michael they believed Murray and put him in charge over Michael making Michael feel as if he had no choice in the matter. They interfered with the doctor/patient relationship and that part is obvious from that email.

    I don’t think they are trying to prove that AEG killed Michael just that they added to the problem when they hired Murray and they paid him 10 times what he would have made. I think it is time that everyone understands that money can make anyone do anything even a doctor.


  14. March 9, 2013 6:09 am

    Since I am in the same profession as the felon, I am speaking from first hand knowledge. A lay person (in this case AEG) is NOT responsible for patient care. The physician is. Felon knew he needed proper equipment and ignored that himself. And how would AEG know that the felon was dripping propofol into his patient for weeks? Are they responsible to protect a person from his preferred personal physician, one that he requested?

    When concerns were voiced by Ortega, they were addressed. It is Murray who assured them, as did Michael. I dislike AEG’s manipulation, attitude, seeming disregard for Michael’s well being…however…I will not agree to allowing the felon space to be a victim in any way.
    None. His decisions, his behavior, his unconscionable disregard for life. 20 years experience and an Oath behind it…

    As far as the judge’s ruling, the meat of this suit was dismissed. What is left is hiring and supervision. AEG cannot be held liable for what the felon did nor can they be held responsible for breaching a duty of care.


  15. March 9, 2013 6:20 am

    Background checks focus on malpractice history, of which felon had none; on education, experience and peer input. Lots of docs have financial pressures…lots of them. Duty is to disregard when it comes to your patient.

    Michael requested Murray. AEG wanted to hire an MD in London. And the e-mails were
    cheery picked by plaintiffs and released. And it doesn’t matter anyway. Murray had responsiblity to say NO and he didn’t.

    And if you recall, felon asked for 5mil and that was denied. Michael is the one who suggested the $150,000/mo which Murray agreed to. And if a physician, in this case, Murray puts money, status and the limelight of fame ahead of his duty as physician, that is on him.

    I clearly remember Dr. Shafer’s statements in court. If one is to listen again, he is quite clear on where the responsibility lies.


  16. Sina permalink
    March 9, 2013 6:44 am

    This is by no means a medical issue, but a legal one that could happen in any profession.
    The medical maltreatment is the consequence of negligent hiring. For $150000 per month !


  17. March 9, 2013 6:51 am

    It is a medical issue because Michael died. And the medical maltreatment is due to the incompetent, lazy, selfish and unconscionable actions of Murray. Not because he was hired, at Michael’s request, for a paycheck which was agreed upon by all parties involved.

    The e-mails released were chosen for a specific reason and the result is clear and unfortunate.


  18. Sina permalink
    March 9, 2013 7:21 am

    This is not a criminal trial about who killed Michael. Murray is serving his sentence for that. Its about hiring an incompetent doctor. The relationship between Murray and AEG has every characteristic of an agreement, even though the contract was not signed and even though he was Michaels personal doctor.
    Key is that AEG supervised and gave orders to Murray, that he would be paid for his services, that they knew that he was already treating Michael, even encouraged it. They had authority over Murray and Michael.


  19. Lopsided man permalink
    March 9, 2013 1:03 pm

    You guys need an entire post on the timeline of events for 6/25. So many inconsistencies & unanswered questions remain about the official story….

    Frank Dileo’s account [CNN Larry King Live; Wed. Aug. 5, 2009]:

    Dileo was having lunch the Beverly Hilton, when he receives a call from a fan who sees an ambulance in front of 100 North Carolwood Drive. Dileo hangs up, calls Michael Amir Williams (aka “Brother Michael”) about it. M.A.W. says he’s heard about it, and that he was on his way to the house. Dileo then calls AEG’s Randy Phillips about the ambulance; since Randy Phillips is closer to the house, Dileo tells him to get there as soon as he can, and that he’d meet him at the house. When Dileo arrives at the house, he was told they’d left for UCLA Medical Center. Dileo arrives at UCLA, waits with Phillips. Tells Phillips, “I think he’s alive. We have a shot here he’ll be ok.”

    Frank Dileo’s account [Raffles van Exel interview; Nov. 4, 2009]:

    The morning of June 25, 2009 – Dileo wasn’t scheduled to go to Staples Center until 4 o’clock that day. Was having lunch with a friend at Beverly Hilton Hotel at 11:30am. Receives phone call from fan asking if he knew that there was an ambulance at 100 North Carolwood Dr. Dileo says he called Michael Amir Williams, who confirmed that he knew about the ambulance. M.A. Williams says he was leaving his apartment and going to the house. Williams mentioned that Dr. Murray was with Michael at the house. Dileo hangs up, and calls Randy Phillips (Dileo says Phillips was at the cleaners), tells him about an emergency at Michael’s house and to get there right away, since he was closer.


    Dr. Arnold Klein’s account of June 25, 2009 [TMZ; Nov. 6, 2009]:

    Arnold Klein tells TMZ’s Harvey Levin about a phone call his office received that morning from Frank Dileo. Klein clearly suggests that AEG and Dileo are lying about when they found out about Michael’s cardiac arrest/death.

    Harvey Levin: I do have something else that came up when we talked on Sunday….

    Arnold Klein: Sure.

    Levin: ….about a phone call that came to your office during the emergence when Michael Jackson was taken to the hospital, by one of Michael Jackson’s people.

    Klein: Yes. Frank Dileo called my office. Now, here’s the question that always remains: Who was called by Dr. Murray? We know I wasn’t called, contrary to what a certain doctor [likely referring to Dr. Steven Hoefflin] said. Again, this lovely doctor said I was called. but who was called? And, I mean, is it public who was called? Do people publicly know who was called?

    Levin: No

    Klein: Okay. But there’s been conjecture about many people who’ve been called.

    Levin: Right.

    Klein: And one conjecture was that the head of AEG was called. That’s a conjecture. One was Frank Dileo , who used to be his manager, was called, and whoever the third call was, was supposedly a patient who was suing Dr. Murray. Okay? That was supposedly what the third call was about, and that’s my knowledge. I can’t say for fact and it may be a big lie, but that’s what I was told.

    I was told one call went to a patient who was suing Dr. Murray – that’s the first person he talks to after his patient has died, next thing went to the head of AEG, then they talked to Frank Dileo and these were the three calls.

    And I know fairly well, I was assured yesterday that the first call was to this patient who was very angry…


    Randy Phillips’s account [Testimony in Conrad Murray’s criminal trial; October 25, 2011]:

    *Sorry, I can’t find a complete transcript at this time…

    Randy Phillips says he received a call at 10:30am – 11 o’clock in the morning from Frank Dileo saying that Michael wasn’t breathing. Says he got into his car and arrived at N. Carolwood Dr. in 15 minutes.


  20. Susannerb permalink
    March 9, 2013 5:33 pm

    The legal aspect of AEG’s behavior and actions will be decided in court. After all, the fact that there will be a trial at all shows that there is enough evidence that the judge regarded as worth for a legal case.
    But even if AEG’s behavior is “only” a moral question, I think it is necessary to make it public and to denounce it. Do you think it is not worth talking about it? You sound like this is normal in business and that we have to accept it, because it is like it is. Do you want to live in a world where stars or other “money-worth” people are used up and exploited for the benefit of companies or in a world where decency in business is not necessary or regarded unimportant?
    You said yourself that you don’t like “AEG’s manipulation, attitude, seeming disregard for Michael’s well-being”, but you seem to regard it as a normal standard that we all have to accept.


  21. March 9, 2013 7:16 pm

    No, of course not. Yet, we know who will be sacrified here, if allowed, by both sides.
    AEG: wants to establish decades long addiction…Plaintiffs: want to establish AEG was aware. So who suffers the mudslinging? Let me just remind what the judge’s ruling was:

    Judge ruled out there’s no evidence that AEG controlled Michael’s medical care as he was able to see other doctors.

    Judge stated strong financial pressure does not equal to control or any special relationship.

    Judge ruled that AEG did not have power over Michael and he wasn’t a slave for AEG.

    Judge says jury should decide if it was foreseeable Murray’s financial situation / debt could have made him compromise his Hippocratic Oath

    judge also ruled that Murray was an independent contractor and not an employee of AEG.

    AND: AEG “emails show Murray told Phillips that MJ was healthy and well, and that stopping the show would be the worst possible thing for him,”

    Only remaining claim is hiring and supervision.

    Now, lest anyone forget or choose to ignore,let’s look at who else was applying pressure on Michael during this very same time period.


  22. March 9, 2013 7:34 pm

    “Randy Phillips says he received a call at 10:30am – 11 o’clock in the morning from Frank Dileo saying that Michael wasn’t breathing. Says he got into his car and arrived at N. Carolwood Dr. in 15 minutes.” -lopsided man

    That was a great statement from Randy Phillips which no one followed for some reason. It points to the time when Michael Jackson most probably really (not officially) died. At a later time (11:51) Conrad Murray began talking to his girlfriend Sade Alding and “he didn’t sound himself to her” as she noted. He sounded “like something was wrong.” Then he was suddenly gone and she heard the mumbling of voices, and a cough and then there was silence. This was happening around 12 p.m.

    In the light of what can be considered a “mistake” in the timeline made by Randy Phillips, this mumbling of voices and couphing in the background is becoming extremely interesting, isn’t it? Conrad Murray was probably not even alone at the time he was talking to his girlfriend. And Michael had already been long dead by then.

    “Sade Anding

    Today Houston cocktail waitress Sade Anding, who met Murray in February of 2009, took the stand. Prosecutors asked her about the odd phone call she had with Murray on the day of Jackson’s death, during the moment when prosecutors believe Murray discovered Jackson had stopped breathing.
    During today’s hearing, she reiterated statements made earlier this year in an exclusive interview with “Good Morning America.”
    Anding told GMA during the call Murray “sounded like something was wrong.”
    “He was like, ‘Well.’ And it seemed like he wanted to say something. And I wish I would have just shut up and let him finish. Because he just said, ‘Well.’ And then he took forever,” she said. “He didn’t sound like himself to me at all.”
    Then, she says, Murray became distracted.
    At today’s hearing she testified, “I said, ‘Well let me tell you about my day and I started telling him about my day…that’s when I realized he was no longer on the phone … I was just talking and the next thing you know I said, ‘Hello? Hello?’ and I didn’t hear anything. That’s when I pressed the phone on my ear and I heard mumbling of voices … I heard coughing and nobody answered.”
    Anding also told the court today that after she told Murray she had been questioned by police he allegedly told her not to speak to them again without his lawyer.

    He said, “I’m going to give you my lawyer’s number and make sure before you speak to LAPD you have my lawyer present,” she recalled.

    During her interview with GMA, Anding said Murray had lied to her, saying he was divorced with two children when he really had seven kids. Prosecutors said he supported several girlfriends, along with his family, on a $150,000 a month salary as Jackson’s personal cardiologist.”

    “You guys need an entire post on the timeline of events for 6/25. So many inconsistencies & unanswered questions remain about the official story….”

    You have done some good preparation work. Do you want to continue and make a post? I am doing the same now but with a much earlier period covering March – June 2009. Need more time to finish it up.


  23. March 9, 2013 8:21 pm

    Let’s go back now and question David Walgren’s superb prosecution of this case. Let’s go back and suppose that he missed or purposely overlooked a ‘smoking gun’ statement. And let’s wonder why the defense did not pursue this matter further. Conspiracy theories tend to place a pall of suspicion over everyone.involved. Simply not realistic. Four years later and murder/conspiracy theories have gone nowhere.

    We are down to hiring and supervision.

    Of course, one is free to believe whatever they choose.


  24. March 9, 2013 8:31 pm

    “judge also ruled that Murray was an independent contractor and not an employee of AEG.” – Lauren

    Not an employee of AEG? Though the contract was between AEG and Murray, and Murray was directly answerable to AEG and not to Michael Jackson? Michael could not even fire Murray – he first had to complain to AEG and they were to take a decision. But they were of a very high opinion of Murray. Even without checking his background. And ‘trusted’ him very much though there were indications that Michael did not (and wanted a proper anesthesiologist).

    “Only remaining claim is hiring and supervision.”

    Not a bad result considering how helpless the initial Katherine Jackson’s suit was – I thought they would not be able to achieve even that. However I am still dreaming of a time when AEG Live’s contract with Michael Jackson is found unconscionable or invalid or illegal or whatever. It is that contract where the real problem with AEG Live is.

    There is so much fraud there that this alone amounts almost to a murder. Michael was extremely stressed out as a result of it and desperately needed sleep – he could not afford to miss a single rehearsal. AEG did not have any right to demand his obligatory attendance of the rehearsals on their terms. This was excessive pressure they exerted on him and it does not matter how they did it – via Murray or directly. It was this pressure that pushed Michael into the need of propofol. And all the rest of it was a technical matter. Murray’s poor qualification. Murray terrible negligence. Murray’s indifference to his “client” and being answerable only to his boss – AEG Live.


  25. March 9, 2013 8:41 pm

    Fraud, exploitive contracts, nasty suits…do not add up to murder. A doctor disregarding his patient’s welfare in the manner proven in court led to Michael’s death. And the judge has already ruled that AEG cannot be held responsible for the felon’s actions…and, in the medical arena, independent contractors are quite common.


  26. March 9, 2013 8:47 pm

    “Let’s go back now and question David Walgren’s superb prosecution of this case. Let’s go back and suppose that he missed or purposely overlooked a ‘smoking gun’ statement. And let’s wonder why the defense did not pursue this matter further.’ – Lauren

    Ed Chernoff did try to ask a couple of perfectly legitimate questions, but was never allowed to continue and I very much wondered why David Walgren did not allow a single question to be asked about AEG. All of them were nipped in the bud. When I asked why, someone in this blog said that when the time for the civil trial came all those questions would be answered. But now we are on the eve of the civil trial and no questions are being answered again. Frankly it is beginning to remind me of our own glorious legal system.

    “Four years later and murder/conspiracy theories have gone nowhere.”

    This is what is so bad about it. Fortunately the AEG contract is open for everyone to see. And if no one on your side sees how outrageous and probably illegal it is, so much the worse for you. Even if you do not see it, others do and the whole of it is not doing much credit to the best legal system in the world.

    Just my opinion.


  27. March 9, 2013 8:55 pm

    “Fraud, exploitive contracts, nasty suits…do not add up to murder.” – lauren

    There are different ways to commit a murder. Sometimes people are intentionally made so stressed out that this may result in a heart attack. Will all the bullying that brought about another person’s death be considered a crime in this case? Or is it nothing in your opinion? Just a joke on someone’s part?

    However even that pressure was a minor point if we speak of AEG Live. They did many more outrageous things to Michael.


  28. March 9, 2013 10:04 pm

    I’m not on any particular ‘side’. I’m stating
    fact as I see it. Agree or not, doesn’t matter
    What matters to me is the price that Michael’s memory could potentially pay
    Because of a ‘deep pocket’ suit. Pressure is a popular word used here. Seems quite a bit of it was placed on Michael by certain parties in early 09, including the adult plaintiff, to wrest his finances into Rowe’s hands and to tour with sibs. No one’s hands are clean in this. And, to me, all the
    demands placed on Michael culminated in
    trusting an incompetent physician who killed him


  29. March 9, 2013 10:27 pm

    “I’m not on any particular ‘side’.”

    layne4, I am terribly sorry but you forgot to change your email address. And it is the same as that of my previous opponent whose name is Lauren. I don’t object and it is wholly up to you under which name you are coming here, but why the need to play all these games?

    And I am afraid that you are still on the same side as before, aren’t you?


  30. March 9, 2013 10:30 pm

    Uncalled for question IMO
    We’ll see what happens in court.


  31. March 9, 2013 10:39 pm

    “We’ll see what happens in court.” – layne4/Lauren

    Well, at least the masks are off now.


  32. March 9, 2013 10:48 pm

    Same person. Now on cell phone. Disappointed at the use of words opponent and games.
    Again, we’ll see what happens in court.


  33. March 9, 2013 10:57 pm

    “Again, we’ll see what happens in court.”– layne4

    Do I understand it right that you will be happy if nothing comes of it?


  34. March 9, 2013 11:27 pm

    Well, I would have preferred the felon was
    forced to pay restitution because my opinion is as I’ve stated. I would have preferred that Michael’s memory not be potentially hurt by what AEG/plaintiffs argue
    about in court. So now it goes to court and if there is $ award I would like to see a donation to charity…and if KJ loses, plaintiffs can ask if it was worth it.

    Now…it’s up to jury based on instructions after evidence


  35. March 10, 2013 12:09 am

    Thanks for the great article about your sister and propofol, Susanne. I wish it had been available immediately after Michael’s death, or at least during the trial.


  36. March 10, 2013 12:15 am

    “I would have preferred that Michael’s memory not be potentially hurt by what AEG/plaintiffs argue about in court.” – layne4

    This is a possible danger. But the truth about Michael cannot really hurt – at least us, because Michael was incapable of doing anything bad. As to others they do not even need any ‘facts’ to drag Michael through the mud. They will do it anyway irrespective of what AEG argues. But there is still one more possibility – that we will learn the truth about AEG and what they did to Michael, and this truth may turn out to be the best reward to all of us. But if we do not try we will never learn it.

    “So now it goes to court and if there is $ award I would like to see a donation to charity…”

    I would too, however it is up to Katherine.

    “if KJ loses, plaintiffs can ask if it was worth it.”

    It is always worth to know the truth. Truth has an absolute value. But if we do not try we will never know. If we fear we will never win. If we never try, one day we may feel very sorry that we lost the chance.


  37. March 10, 2013 5:32 am

    I can understand to a great degree Laurens viewpoimt. However you have to look at the agreement which was explained by Helena when this blog was started. Sure that is not enough,but it is possible some fraud was commmmited, esp. in regard to the paybacks so soon, but even so it may not count.That is why I have tried to emphatise the psychological pressure put on Michael, ie what I have called contra couching that Michael was subjected to.The riotacts,they occurred on one or two occasions not much before Michaels death.

    I have the suspicion that something underhanded happened and they understood very well about certain facts,beside the econonomic ones, of Murrays background. Also I would be afraid if a doctor very much wants to be your friend. Being friendly is another thing. Murray was the tool for an accident to happen. Murray was tool for AEG in their situation they created….Still, as somebody has suggested it would have made more sense to sue Murray, who knows what drivel he will write about Michael once he gets the opportunity.

    And why did they fire Michaels staff so in practice he was isolated and sleepless.
    After the Riot acts he could hardly have felt secure and comfortable with Murray.It is known he was looking for an anestetist. And ofcourse it was not an accident. I believe murray was not a good doctor, but was he really unintententionally so bad/. The events of the morning 6.25 2009 are by no means clear. And why was a psych.consult not done when Kenny Ortega suggested it.


  38. lynande51 permalink
    March 10, 2013 4:29 pm

    Prince is going to be called as a witness, possibly Paris. Then the time will end when the world, extended family, questionable doctors and business associates, and the media will have to stop calling their father an addict. Prince might have been young in years but I think both he and Paris have proven that they are very wise beyond their chronological age. Michael Jr. will be able to set the record straight and we will finally have an end to “what is out in the public”.

    The Public consists of sources like Klein, Murray, Karen Faye, Grace Rwaramba, Lisa Marie, and family that were after Michael as well. DId you know that most of the sources for most of the articles are from Schaffel and Mann? Why would anyone ever trust those two is beyond me because their primary goal was to get a piece of the Michael Jackson pie. They were shot down in court and now their agenda is to destroy the pie. If they can’t have it nobody can is what they are up to.

    Mann should be forever barred from the Jackson Childrens home. Schaffel should never have been allowed back in he was the original source of all the addiction rumors. He did that in an attempt to get Michael to give him more money than he was entitled to.


  39. lynande51 permalink
    March 10, 2013 5:21 pm

    Lauren 3 of the plaintiffs are Michaels’ children. Katherine brought the lawsuit in their behalf. No matter what you think of Katherine you need to remember that when you say plaintiffs you are talking about Michael’s kids. and the other thing that you need to remember that there was one woman on this planet that was sancrosanct and that was Katherine. No matter what you think of her you need to remember that the people that you are talking about used her as well and that Michael would have abhorred what his fans are saying about her.


  40. shellywebstere permalink
    March 10, 2013 6:30 pm


    I don’t know what Lauren thinks, but lots of fans don’t include the kids as plaintiffs because they are kids. I doubt the Jacksons asked them if they agree or not with that lawsuit even if they said yes they are under the influence of the Jacksons.

    As for Katherine, I believe Mann and Schaffel are using her but you can’t blame fans for thinking she, at least, should know better than that and you don’t make business deal with someone who called your son a child abuser.


  41. March 10, 2013 7:00 pm

    @lynande51 I can imagine how a mother would feel wondering how her son could have died the way hers did. Did he agree to those medications? Why? Knowing the doctor is
    responsible but believing that someone, something else must have caused that situation in some way. Such a shocking, almost lurid scenario for her to deal with.

    I can only speak from my own experience and knowledge of the felon’s responsibility, and I can’t do that any better than Dr. Shafer did. Suffice to say that, yes, a physician holds a higher duty to put his/her patient first. Outside pressures of any severity must be put aside.
    Some docs make life and death decisions everyday and some…typically office or hospital based practioners, don’t. Felon moved from seeing patients in little rooms and performing hospital procedures to caring for one patient, in his home. When the idea of propofol for sleep was considered, his duty was to say NO. Like others did; like the nurse did. And we know what happened. His motives don’t really matter because whatever they were had to be set aside when it came to patient care.

    For me, to consider the felon in any way a victim of AEG’s pressure to deliver Michael for rehearsals is abhorrent. Contracts, fraud, nasty comments, horrendous attitudes…whatever lay behind the pressure placed on him…which also included his patient’s pleas for sleep….did not in any way change his ultimate, singular responsibility.

    I imagine Michael’s situation…his own pressures, health issues, maybe PTSD effects, hounded from all sides…including family….and at the mercy of a physician who apparently was willing to sacrifice his duty for a paycheck.

    So, maybe the jury will find something in AEG’s hiring practice or some way to reconcile the supervison question vs. holding them resp for the felon’s actions (which was dismissed)….
    that will depend on evidence and the all important jury instructions.

    I hope that when this is over, it will finally be time to let Michael rest without the world prying into his private history, medical and otherwise.


  42. March 10, 2013 7:13 pm

    @lynande51 I refrain from discussing the children; simply worry about their welfare.
    Mann and Schaffel partnering with KJ? Perry Sanders introduced by Randall Sullivan?
    Speaks volumnes about potential coercion and sharks surrounding this situatiion.


  43. March 10, 2013 7:26 pm

    I will say hisgain.,Where there is a prey vultures will gather by instinct.


  44. March 10, 2013 8:04 pm

    I will also address the symptomatology of PTSD, something that Michael
    most likely suffered from.It can occur acutely,be chronic or of the delayed type.In its severity it can be compared to an acute psychosis.
    The symptoms are, .Intrusive recollections,recurrent nightmares,prolonged times of heightened arousal,flashbacks, expieriences of dissociative states when the person at once is as if transported to the traumatic situation,ie a change in consciousness,fear of threat and a sense of foreshortened future.
    There are more symptoms that can be associated with it,such as hallucinations and paranoid thinking.And more, but this may suffice to know that it is not a minor neurosis. During the stress he was under,which was increased by the Riot act and threats to pull the plug he most likely expierienced symptoms of the delayed type, triggered by
    the hostile attitude of persons in that time period.


  45. March 10, 2013 8:49 pm

    PTSD seems to be a strong possibility. One only can think of a childhood of abuse, 93, 2005 and, unlike a soldier who figuratively leaves the field of battle, Michael was exposed constantly to the the recurring nightmare. Don’t care for armchair analysis by people who never spoke with or examined him, myself included, yet it is something to consider. Wonder if any of his myriad number of care providers ever considered it.


  46. Sina permalink
    March 10, 2013 9:28 pm

    Speculations that Michaels memory will be hurt because of this case are invalid arguments to not seek justice. Then no civil case would ever be filed because the opponent will always find dirt to throw at you, as Murray did in front of the world.
    Even when he died the media and the majority of the public had no mercy on him.
    Michael’s memory does not depend on this or any case, but on the great works he has done.
    The worst that could happen to him has already happened.
    And when it really mattered, when he was alive and being kicked left and right, his privacy and humanity violated day in day out, the punchbag of any idiots sick jokes where was everybody.
    I challenge anyone with a nasty opinion on Katherine Jackson to show evidence that they supported him when he truly needed it. His mother was there and took the hurt and the pain, because as a mother when your child is hurting you feel it double.
    Murray was sent to jail for killing Michael, now its time to find out what happened in the proces leading to his death. Who could be against that.
    I have a feeling that the reason some are defending AEG tooth and nail are the rumors by anonymous sources (as always) of a settlement of a substantial amount, which is just speculation. God forbid she will get money out of a win or settlement.
    Would Prince cooperate if he thought what his grandmother is doing is wrong?
    Or is he only considered wise and mature when it suits peoples agenda?
    And is he also like the Chandlers now?
    What a stab in Michaels back to compare his death by homicide to the false accusations of an extortionist.


  47. lynande51 permalink
    March 10, 2013 9:30 pm

    I think everyone has forgotten that grief has alot to do with this. Maybe money isn’t the motive behind the lawsuit. Maybe there is something else that Katherine wants out of this and it is spelled out in the plaintiffs replies to the defense and to the court. Maybe just maybe she wants to world to know just how it treated her son.
    AEG Live is really no different than Schaffel or Mann are. Mann and Schaffel conspired to get close to Katherine and sell back that memorabilia that was once part of a lawsuit ( Henry Vacarro). Schaffel wanted her to buy back the footage that was released to him when they produced Michael Jacksons, Private Home Movies. AEG was not paying for the filming of the rehearsals of This Is It, Michael was but suddenly in order for it to be released they got 10%? What was that for?
    I like you know and understand that Murray is primarily responsible for killing Michael. Personally after I heard the recording he made of Michael I have to wonder just how much Michael wanted his “experimental” medicine and how much was forced on him through that tape? Who did Murray threaten to play that for? Was it Phillips? Was it the tabloids? Doctors don’t do that to their patients as a matter of fact I know of no one that has ever done that. For that tape alone he should permanently lose his license to practice. There are a million reason that he shoudl be in jail but the only one left alive to know the truth is Murray and unfortunately we will never hear it from him. He has no intention of ever being rehabilitated because he is still trying to say he did nothing. There is no responsibility from him. But like I said that recording alone makes me ask more than one question just like it should everyone.
    You know that the only conversation that we a privvy to are the ones that were presented in court and from the parties involved. How do we know if any of them are telling the truth?
    The only way to find out is to go to court and see all of the evidence.


  48. shellywebstere permalink
    March 10, 2013 9:46 pm

    “I think everyone has forgotten that grief has alot to do with this. Maybe money isn’t the motive behind the lawsuit. Maybe there is something else that Katherine wants out of this and it is spelled out in the plaintiffs replies to the defense and to the court. Maybe just maybe she wants to world to know just how it treated her son.”

    Maybe, but in that case why did she dropped the restitution against Muray? She could have both, the restitution and her case against AEG.


  49. shellywebstere permalink
    March 10, 2013 9:52 pm

    “Would Prince cooperate if he thought what his grandmother is doing is wrong?”

    He has no choice in it, he is only 15.


  50. lynande51 permalink
    March 10, 2013 10:07 pm

    Shelly in the midst of the trial and just after Katherine was completely taken up with protecting Michaels’ life, not just his livelihood, but his life. She had one focus and that focus was to keep Michael from jail for the rest of his life for a crime he did not commit. It is not her fault if in the middle of all of that she didn’t know or doesn’t remember the names of all those that were working against him.There is a real possibility that she did not know about Schaffel or remember him.
    When we demonstrate our concern for Michaels’ kids I think the most important thing to remember is that HIS FIRST CHOICE if something ever happened to him was HIS MOTHER. Only in the event of her death was someone else named and even she says that it is best that they are with Katherine. Why do we question his choice? Is it because of what happened last summer?
    Last summer was unfortunate because Katherine was only being told one side of a story (this happens a lot in Michaels’ life unfortunately) she was not given the entire picture and we got that picture from Michael Jr. and Paris.They were being lied to about their Grandmother and they wanted her home, for no other reason than they love her and know that she loves them.
    Every person from Evan Chandler forward that brought a lawsuit against Michael threatened to “reveal” some truth about Michael if he fought them. Why would we think that AEG Live and Randy Phillips would be any different? This is just the same tactic in reverse because AEG is the defendent in this case. We can expect more tawdry and salacious innuendo in the coming months before this goes to the jury. I understand that the trial has been continued now until July.


  51. shellywebstere permalink
    March 10, 2013 10:18 pm


    He was on trial with Schaffel, and what about the other family members? If she forgot, then maybe they could have told her.

    No, let’s not forget that they were busy selling stories about their brother.

    As for his memory, yes it will survive, but at what price? Everybody want to make him look like the ultimate drug addict.


  52. March 10, 2013 10:41 pm

    Believe the trial is still scheduled for April 2. There are issues/rulings of underlining redacted docs/pleadings that, for some reason, are delayed until July.

    Whether the suit should move forward is a moot point now. However, it is a watered down version of the initial complaint since the most incriminating claims have been dismissed. As it stands today, the murder conspiracy theories are going nowhere and I suspect we will find out that AEG is a non caring, profit making organization that exploited their artist and were primarily interested in the bottom line and recouping their investment. Much the same as what Michael described as ‘sharks’ in the entertainment business.

    Judge Pastor addressed that recording in court and I most certainly agree with his opinion about it. And, for the record, I am not on AEG’s ‘side.’ My view is that the ultimate responsible party has been tried, convicted and, for now, sits in jail.


  53. March 11, 2013 12:35 am

    “I have a feeling that the reason some are defending AEG tooth and nail are the rumors by anonymous sources (as always) of a settlement of a substantial amount, which is just speculation”

    Sina, fortunately I don’t know anything of these rumors but what I know for sure is that AEG advocates are working all over the Internet and mostly among Michael’s fans. Some of them even have Michael Jackson’s blogs where they pretend they speak up for Michael while the sole reason for their existence is to take away any potential anger of Michael’s fans away from AEG Live. Everyone is responsible for Michael’s death – Sony, Branca, Hann, you name it – except AEG Live!

    Considering the way Michael was treated by Randy Phillips and Michael himself saying that “they treat him like a machine” the fact that these people do not say a single word of reproach about AEG is telling us all we need to know about these people.


  54. March 11, 2013 12:45 am

    “Maybe money isn’t the motive behind the lawsuit.” – lynande51

    What does it matter? When AEG was draining millions out of that footage which even didn’t belong to them and took part in distribution of profit even after they sold the footage for $60 mln.(?) to Sony, it was Sony and the rest of the world which was so terrible, while AEG again remained a saint. How much longer will people listen to all this AEG propaganda?

    “I understand that Murray is primarily responsible for killing Michael.”

    I also understand that Murray is primarily responsible for killing Michael. But it wasn’t only him. And others responsible for Michael’s death should also answer. Of course we would prefer them to go to jail, but if this is not possible let them pay, even if Katherine dispells all the banknotes over the ocean after that. It is none of AEG’s or anyone’s business what she will do with the money.

    I hope AEG pays her a billion. These people understand only the language of money.


  55. shellywebstere permalink
    March 11, 2013 1:02 am

    Just a point about the This is it deal


  56. Ray Jackson permalink
    March 18, 2013 1:59 am

    Trust me, there is no way you can administer that stuff your self, I’ve had Propofol lie 4 times I was out instantly once they had out the needle in my arm and injected the Propofol I saw how they did it. It wasn’t even fully empty when I have passed out I didn’t even make it to 7 when I counted to 10 I was out in literally seconds. Although Propofol is the best stuff you can ever get! Lol I love that stuff if it want deadly I guarantee many people would take it and I am admitting to that I would to! You get the best sleep ever!


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