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What does Valerie Wass’s appeal tell us of Conrad Murray’s case?

April 13, 2013

Updated and corrected on April 14, 2013

Valerie Wass filed an appeal for her client Conrad Murray claiming that he is not to blame for the death of Michael Jackson. She says that the night Michael died he was not on a drip and that Murray delivered Michael only 25ml of propofol (by a syringe) after which Michael allegedly self-injected himself with another portion of 25ml (by another syringe) and this allegedly caused his death.

Though Wass is trying to present her story as something new it is the exact replica of what the defense and Dr. White already proclaimed during the trial and each of their statements were refuted by the prosecution and Dr. Shafer in a thorough, meticulous and super scientific way.

This is why I would like to make a short summary of the main arguments that unequivocally prove Murray’s guilt. Since this is a purely scientific matter my main problem here was to express complex things in the simplest language possible, so please don’t be cross with me for wording things primitively. My goal is that everyone, even Valerie Wass, understands that Murray is simply fooling us.

WASS’S DISPUTE WITH THOMAS MESEREAU

Valerie Wass voiced her version of the events during an interview with Piers Morgan in the course of a vehement discussion with Thomas Mesereau. She was so adamant about her story that she hardly gave Thomas Mesereau a chance to put in a word. The conversation started with Murray singing a song on the telephone which produced an inimitable impression on everyone present and made me doubt Murray’s adequacy:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONRAD MURRAY, MICHAEL JACKSON’S FORMER PHYSICIAN: (Singing) He’s a little boy that Santa Claus forgot and goodness knows he did not want a lot, he wrote a note to Santa for some crayons and a toy, it broke his little heart when he found Santa hadn’t come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MORGAN: A surreal moment from Anderson Cooper’s interview with Dr. Conrad Murray when the convicted of involuntary manslaughter in Michael Jackson’s death burst into song on live television last night. Meanwhile, jury selection continues in Katherine Jackson’s lawsuit against AEG, seeking $40 billion.

Now Conrad Murray’s attorney, Valerie Wass, is here to go head-to-head with Michael Jackson’s attorney, Tom Mesereau.

Welcome to you, Valerie Wass. You weren’t happy watching Tom and I discussing this last night. Why not?

VALERIE WASS, ATTORNEY FOR DR. CONRAD MURRAY: Well, I felt that he was — he was viewed in a — in a wrong manner. I feel very strongly about Dr. Murray, and that he’s a compassionate man and I believe that he is an innocent man. I believe he was wrongly convicted. And I don’t know if Tom really knows the facts of the case and has read the record and all of the evidence, such as I have done for the last year.

THOMAS A. MESEREAU JR., DEFENDED MICHAEL JACKSON IN MOLESTATION TRIAL: I haven’t read — I haven’t read the record, but I watched a lot of the trial. And every single physician in this courtroom, including the — including Murray’s own expert, thought that having propofol in the home and administering it the way he did was a gross deviation from the medical standard of care.

Nobody justified having propofol in their house. Nobody justified administering it the way he apparently did. He didn’t have the equipment, he didn’t have personnel assisting him. He didn’t have backup equipment. He didn’t have the medications you need if something goes wrong. He didn’t have the power supply if something goes wrong. Everything he did, in my opinion, was a disgrace, and I think he caused the death of Michael Jackson.

MORGAN: Valerie?

WASS: Well, even if he deviated from the standard of care, he didn’t cause the death of Michael Jackson because on the night Michael Jackson died, he was not on a propofol drip. And that’s what nobody understands. And using propofol in a home is not — is not illegal. It’s not — it’s not illegal. It’s an off-label use. And off-label use —

MESEREAU: Did you read the toxicology?

WASS: Absolutely.

MESEREAU: The toxicology — the toxicology examined eight specimens from his body. The stomach, the liver, the heart, the veins, the femoral artery. He had propofol in every single of the eight specimens, OK?

WASS: That’s correct. And the toxicology results are —

MESEREAU: I mean, he was loaded with propofol.

WASS: He was loaded from propofol from a 25 milligram bolus injection that Michael Jackson self-administered shortly before he died. It matches up with all the toxicology findings.

MESEREAU: First of all the — the amount of propofol grossly exceeded the 25 that Mr. — Dr. Murray said he administered. First of all. Second of all —

WASS: That’s right. Because Jackson administered another 25 milligram dose.

MESEREAU: Well —

WASS: And when he administered rapidly, that’s what caused cardiac arrest and it comports with the toxicology results.

MESEREAU: Well, the jury came back in eight hours, finding that Michael Jackson did not self-administer propofol, that your client was grossly negligent and caused his death. And now listen, I don’t think he intentionally did this. He wasn’t charged with premeditated murder, he was charged with gross negligence, involuntary manslaughter, and every single expert that testified admitted he had committed gross negligence in a variety of ways.

One expert said there was 17 acts of gross negligence. Propofol in the home, administering it the way he did —

WASS: That’s right. But he was not on a propofol drip on that night, how can he be — there was no cause.

(CROSSTALK)

MESEREAU: Your client told the police —

WASS: No, the two months that Dr. Murray administered propofol to Michael Jackson on a drip, Michael Jackson was fine. It was after he stopped administering the propofol drips that he died.

MESEREAU: Well, that’s your argument. I understand that. And I think you’re doing a commendable job defending him. The problem is, the jury rejected it in eight hours and every single medical expert rejected it as well.

WASS: I actually spoke to one of the jurors last summer and found it really interesting that they adopted this slit saline bag theory. It was a ludicrous theory that was — that probably came about because the prosecutor popped the tab on the Exhibit 30 bottle and they were forced to find another way to hang the bag. It was an absurd method. No — even the prosecution’s expert had never heard of such an absurd method of hanging a drip.

MESEREAU: Well, your client ordered propofol, took it into his home. I think he had it delivered to his girlfriend’s apartment, took gallons into his home and that alone was a gross deviation from acceptable medical standards.

WASS: That’s right. But it’s not — it’s not a causative factor. That’s the difference.

MESEREAU: It’s not a causative factor? Then what caused his death? Every single specimen was loaded with propofol. It was a propofol induced death. That was the cause of death and nobody really disputed that. The argument was, where did the propofol come from, and Murray should not have brought it in the home. It doesn’t belong in the home. It’s not a treatment for insomnia.

(CROSSTALK)

WASS: Michael Jackson had his own stash of propofol when Dr. Murray first started treating Michael Jackson. There’s evidence that he was on propofol —

MORGAN: OK. Let me — let me jump in and speak — it’s been fascinating to watch you both go at it. He’s obviously already been tried and is in jail as a result. Let’s move to what this new trial is basically going to come down to, which involves a responsibility aspect of who was really employing Conrad Murray.

http://www.cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1304/03/pmt.01.html

Here is the video of the conversation:

So Valerie Wass claims that Michael was supposedly not on a drip that night. Moreover according to her Michael was on a drip for two months before that (so Murray does admit it now) and all this time he was alive, and when Murray stopped administering propofol this way and made only one 25 milligram injection Michael suddenly died. Wass agrees that Michael was loaded with propofol but she is sure that all of it came from a 25mg bolus injection and that the fatal injection was made by Michael himself and he died of a cardiac arrest as a result of it.

Dr. Shafer day 13-6To check up this crazy but washed out version we need to recall what was determined at the trial about the possibility of Michael dying of a single 25mg bolus injection. This matter was thoroughly discussed by Dr. Shafer.

 25 MG OF PROPOFOL

Dr. Shafer said that though 25mg is an extremely small quantity under certain circumstances it can arrest a patient’s breathing (25mg are equal to 2.5ml)

He made a computer simulation for this case and showed that at the moment when propofol is pushed into the vein the concentration of propofol in the blood is very high, however then it drops almost immediately (see the dot line on the picture below).

On the brain propofol does not work that fast – over there propofol gradually grows and reaches its peak only  two minutes later (see the non-dot line on the same picture).

The level of propofol in the brain is crucial as propofol acts via the brain and its only danger is a possibility that it might affect the brain so hard that it stops sending signals to the lungs to breathe. Therefore the most common and in fact only complication when administering propofol is a respiratory failure and anesthesiologists are always on the lookout and ready for this complication.

However a bolus injection of 25mg is so minimal a quantity that it cannot affect the brain and therefore cannot start a breathing arrest. The picture shows that the “brain line” of propofol does not even remotely reach the “apnea threshold” which is a point when breathing stops.

To exclude any possibility of a mistake in this simulation Dr. Shafer extended the corridor of sensibility to the drug adding individual people’s reactions to it and after that it turned out that a small number of people did fall into a risk group.  See the “brain line” rising towards the gray area and at one point reaching it – this is exactly the 1,5 minute period within which a small number of patients are at the risk of stopping breathing:

If patient-to-patient deviations are added to this model a small number of patients will be at risk even with this small dose

If patient-to-patient deviations are added to this model a small number of patients will be at risk even with this small dose

But then Dr. Shafer proved that though in theory this scenario was possible for Michael’s particular case it was not applicable.

The gist of it is that even if a patient stops breathing as a result of these 25mg his heart will go on working for another 10 minutes – there is still some air in the lungs and it keeps the heart beating. During those 10 minutes all propofol in the blood will be broken up or metabolized. The computer simulation shows that by the time the heart dies both lines (propofol in the blood and propofol in the brain) come close to a zero point. You can see it in bottom right hand corner of the picture.

However the autopsy report showed the level of propofol in Michael’s blood as 2,6 micrograms. And this figure is customary for cases when patients receive not 25mg of propofol but a full-time general anesthesia involving 200ml (2000mg) of this drug or more.

The propofol concentration of 2,6 mcg taken from the autopsy report was the most conservative figure used by Dr. Shafer as all the rest were much higher – for example, the overall propofol level measured at the hospital was 4,1 mcg and the level found in the heart was 3,2 mcg.

The 2,6 mcg level of propofol recorded in Michael’s blood is shown in the picture as the Femoral Vein line. And if we compare the nearly zero point where the 25ml injection takes us to after the 10 minutes of heart beating with the real level of propofol found in Michael’s body we realize that he should have got a bigger, a much bigger dose of propofol.

This 2,6 mcg level required an explanation and Dr. Shafer provided it:

  • “Michael Jackson received more than 25 mg”.

50 MG OF PROPOFOL

However Wass was talking of two 25mg injections – the initial was given by Murray and the next 25mg injection was allegedly self-administered by MJ thus bringing the total quantity to 50mg (5ml).

Let us put the matter of “self-injection” aside for a moment and see whether the level of propofol found in Michael’s body (femoral vein) is consistent with Wass’s 50mg theory. Dr. Shafer naturally looked into this version too and even turned it into a much harsher scenario – in his simulation all 50mg was given as one injection and pushed as a bolus (at once)  instead of two possibly slow 25mg injections with a time span between them.

The snapshot made during the trial demonstrates total impossibility of this scenario for Michael’s case.

50 ml scenario

Now you know what to look for in the picture and see that at the moment when the heart stops ten minutes after the injection the level of propofol is approximately 5 times as low as the level registered in the autopsy report and this means that the propofol given must have been much higher than the 50ml mentioned by Wass.

The reason why the level of propofol drops so fast after it is injected is always the same – when breathing stops the heart goes on beating for at least 10 minutes, the blood continues to circulate and the metabolism process quickly takes away propofol from the system.

This is why doctors and patients like propofol so much – no matter what amount of it has been given it metabolizes so quickly in the body that the moment it stops dripping the patient opens his eyes – it breaks up into its metabolites almost instantly with no trace of propofol found in the blood. The most it takes to fully drive all propofol from the system is 5 minutes or less.

The only place where a little bit of propofol remains even after all of it is gone is the urine. The reason why it happens is because a tiny fraction of non-metabolized propofol manages to escape into the bladder and stays there until the urine is evacuated. If the patient dies the bladder will still act like a bag which keeps the propofol that accumulated there when the patient was still alive and producing urine. Upon his death no more propofol will be added, but the one that got there will be stored.

For propofol to be found in the blood, like in Michael’s case, first of all its quantity should be so big that when breathing stops and the level of propofol begins to quickly decrease, by the time the heart dies (ten minutes later) some propofol should still remain in the body and show a level higher than zero – like the 2,6 mcg in Michael’s blood, for example.

Another reason why propofol may register in the blood is when it flows into the body after the patient dies. In this case it simply streams into the veins and accumulates there without breaking up as nothing in the body is working any longer and no metabolism is taking place.

What course of events could produce the result of so much propofol in the blood?

Dr. Shafer came to a conclusion that it should be a dripping process during which the quantity of propofol was slowly building up and at some point reached a level when breathing stopped. Ten minutes later Michael’s heart stopped too but since propofol was still dripping its concentration in the blood continued rising and reached the level found at the autopsy. The reason why all this happened is because Conrad Murray was simply not looking and is therefore guilty of an unheard of,  terrible, egregious, unconscionable negligence.

The other scenario can be worked out on the basis of Valerie Wass’s words. She says that it was not a dripping process and all propofol was delivered by a syringe. But in this case Murray must have first made an injection of propofol big enough to stop Michael breathing and then continued making these injections again and again until ten minutes later the heart stopped and inject propofol even after that in order to further accumulate it in the blood.

But the described process is actually a premeditated murder. So if Valerie Wass wants to prove that Murray is actually a murderer and not a grossly negligent doctor she is very much welcome to prove it. This is in fact what she is trying to do now.

However you have probably noticed that Valerie Wass used the argument that Michael did not die of a respiratory failure but of a cardiac arrest. Dr. White heavily relied on this version too during the trial but it was also thoroughly disproved by Dr. Shafer.

But how is the situation different in case it was a heart arrest and not a breathing failure?

NO CARDIAC ARREST

You have seen that all above scenarios were based on the assumption that breathing stopped first and ten minutes later a heart arrest followed.

This assumption has an explanation. Propofol does not affect the heart at all and acts on the brain only. And if brain activity stops it no longer sends a signal to the lungs to breathe and this is how the catastrophic scenario is triggered off.

All scientific community knows that propofol acts on the brain and not on the heart, and the doctors who testified at Murray’s trial completely ruled out a heart arrest as a complication of administering propofol.

However Dr. White said that in some cases the heart arrest could still be possible. Indeed, despite the coroner’s conclusion that Michael’s heart was clean of atherosclerosis and was surprisingly healthy and strong, accidents do happen. The possibility of this accident is probably as tiny as the chance of a brick falling on your head now but in theory it is still possible, isn’t it?

Though doctors say that this scenario never happens even in hospitals, unless the patient previously had a heart problem, in theory anything is possible and it is on this virtually non-existent scenario that Dr. White based his assumptions.

But what difference does it make whether it was a breathing failure or a heart arrest?

The difference is a fundamental one – when breathing stops first, propofol has full ten minutes to break up until the heart stops beating, and if the hearts stops first no metabolism takes place and all propofol that was in the body remains there as it is.

Do you remember the two pictures of Dr. Shafer’s simulations? On both pictures the dot line showed that propofol in the blood initially rose to a very high level – even in case of 25mg only – so if the heart stopped at that particular moment, the level of propofol in the blood could indeed be very high.

Dr. White3

Only one doctor insisted that it could be a heart arrest

In the circumstances when all doctors say that it could be only a breathing arrest resulting from a huge quantity of propofol, but one doctor (Dr. White) says that it was a heart arrest resulting from the initial 25ml only, there was no other way to prove that Michael received too much propofol that caused his death but look into its level in the urine.

THE FINAL ARGUMENT

You remember that urine always keeps at least a little of propofol which gets there while the body is still functioning, and if the patient dies it simply stores the propofol already excreted into it. This way the bladder acts as a depositary of the propofol collected before, when the patient was still alive.  If propofol manages to get into the bladder in its original form it does not metabolize there and is stored as it is as metabolism takes place in the liver only.

The amount of propofol in Michaels’s bladder found on autopsy was 0,15 micrograms per ml which multiplied by the amount of urine recovered (approx. 500ml) made up 82,5mcg (micrograms).

This is a very tiny figure, especially if you consider that one microgram (mcg) is equal to 1/1000 of milligram (mg) and this indeed shows that practically all propofol is broken up by the liver and very little non-metabolized propofol reaches the bladder.

On the surface it looked like a huge amount of propofol (2000mg or more) infused in the blood could not produce the tiny quantity of only 0,0825mg in the urine. Logic suggested, at least to Dr. White, that if the propofol quantity found in the urine was tiny a similar tiny quantity should have been administered into the patient’s blood too.

However propofol is known to be vanishing extremely quickly and Dr. Shafer managed to find exact information about how much propofol vanishes and how much of it stays, and what is the exact ratio between the quantity injected into the patient’s blood and the quantity of unchanged propofol reaching the bladder.

Usually propofol reaches the bladder in a metabolized form with only a tiny fraction of original propofol going there, and at first scientists could not differentiate the original form of propofol from its metabolites. But eventually scientists learned how to differentiate the molecules of propofol in is original form from the molecules of its metabolites. And according to their estimations the amount of the original drug getting into urine is indeed incredibly tiny. They found that only 0,004% of the quantity of the original propofol infused into blood goes into the bladder.

And the autopsy report showed propofol in Michael’s urine exactly in its original form.

Now the only thing we need to do is take a calculator and see how much propofol was given to Michael if 82,5micrograms of it remained in the urine and this quantity made up only 0,004% of the original amount given. If 82,5mcg makes up 0,004% how much will be 100% of it?

My calculations brought me to 2062500 micrograms =  2062,5mg =  206ml of propofol.

This means that on the basis of the highly accurate scientific estimations we learned that the 82,5mcg of unchanged propofol in the urine could be produced only if Murray injected 206ml of propofol into Michael’s blood.

This amount is more than two bottles 100ml each and this quantity should have dripped into Michael’s blood while he was still alive as urine is produced only by a living body.

This makes all Valerie Wass’s talk about Michael dying of 25mg (2.5ml) ignorant, foolish and absurd. And though it would be ridiculous to go on looking into Wass’s theories further her self-injection idea is still worth discussing in order to silence all innuendoes about it.

NO CHANCES FOR A SELF-INJECTION THEORY

There is absolutely no way that Michael could make any injections himself.

The first thing we need to remember is that the moment a patient tries to self-inject himself with propofol he becomes unconscious almost immediately. However since an injection may be a bolus one and reaching the brain takes at least a minute we will disregard this argument as not a definitive one and proceed to the rest.

The primary reason why the self-injection scenario could never happen is that in order to inject himself with at least 200ml of propofol which he actually received, Michael would have had to make himself twenty  boluses 10ml each as the only syringes found in the room were two 10cc (10ml) ones.  Even the way it sounds it is totally ridiculous, so let me not comment on things which are impossible in principle.

The situation becomes even more impossible as Michael’s fingerprints were never found on any of those syringes, saline bags, propofol bottles, etc. In fact no Michael’s fingerprints were found on any of that medical equipment. As a side note let me state that someone else’s fingerprints were found on the empty saline bag with a slit on it but for some reason the prosecution did not explain whose fingerprints they were.

out of three bottles of lidocaine 2 were partially consumed

Lidocaine comes in 10ml bottles

Wass’s scenario is all the more impossible as propofol is usually diluted with lidocaine, a local anesthetic which makes the injection less painful. Propofol gives a terrible burning feeling, so injecting it in its pure form hurts very much. Making it without lidocaine would have made Michael scream with pain and hopefully this could have made Murray pay attention to his patient at last.

Let me also mention that a layperson will not cope even with a simple thing like drawing propofol into a syringe. Dr. Shafer made a special point of it that propofol comes in a glass bottle with a rubber stopper on it and when the needle pierces it all you can do is draw a couple of drops, after which no more liquid comes into the barrel because of the vacuum created inside. To overcome this obstacle some air should be pushed into the bottle. Therefore propofol is drawn by little bits by pushing the air inside through the needle and then drawing back.

By the way the syringe on the bedside table near Michael did not only miss his fingerprints on it  but it did not have the needle either.

Okay, even if we agreed that Michael Jackson self-injected himself with propofol and imagined the worst scenario possible – that he did it with a full 10ml (100mg) syringe made as a bolus (at once), Dr. Shafer proved in a separate computer simulation that the result of this scenario would be totally inconsistent with the findings of the autopsy report – so this version is also fully ruled out.

He showed that in this worst case scenario the respiratory arrest would be imminent but since the heart is still beating propofol continues to metabolize and 10 minutes later, when the heart stops and the level of propofol gets “fixed” in the blood, its quantity (0.7mcg) will still be much lower than the 2.6mcg really found in Michael’s veins:

100mg scenario

Even if Michael had self-injected the FULL 10ml (100mg) syringe of propofol, by the time his heart stopped the level of propofol in his blood (0.7mcg) would not have come anywhere close to the 2,6mcg level found in the Femoral vein after his death

No, self-administering propofol via a syringe was impossible as none of the scenarios are workable.

But could he make it via a drip then? And could Michael stand up after the first 100ml bottle and replace it on the IV stand with another one?  And can anyone stand up and replace one bottle with another one without leaving any fingerprints on both of them? Can anyone administer propofol to himself without lidocaine and not scream at that? Or replace one bottle with another one if he has already died from the first bottle?

No, the whole thing is so ridiculous that it is not even worth discussing it any more though there are a dozen other reasons why Michael could not do it himself.

LIDOCAINE

There is one more point in Murray’s story which I would like to mention. It was never discussed at the trial but I personally always wondered about it. You have probably noticed that Murray said that he diluted propofol and lidocaine in the ratio of 1:1.

From what I’ve read about it lidocaine is never used in the equal proportion to propofol. The usual ratio is 1:10 (one part of lidocaine to 10 parts of propofol), and it is due to its minimal use of this local anesthetic that lidocaine comes in vials of 10ml only.

Murray most probably spoke of the incredible 1:1 ratio to conceal the fact that he had given Michael huge portions of propofol. The lidocaine bottles found in the room included two empty vials 10ml each and four more vials, three of which were half-full. So the cumulative quantity of all lidocaine used that day should be at least 30-35ml.

Among other things the number of lidocaine bottles found in the room may testify to the fact that Murray was making syringe injections several times, each time starting with a new bottle. Let me remind you that Lidocaine is generally used for making the initial injection as when the patient is put under the drip he does not feel the pain anyway and no longer needs lidocaine (however there might be variants here).

As I have said even a rough estimation of lidocaine shows that its cumulative quantity given by Murray to Michael was at least 30 ml and if we apply this quantity to propofol following the usual ratio of 1:10 we will come to at least 300ml of propofol administered that day.

But could Murray indeed dilute propofol in the proportion of 1:1 as he said he did? I doubt it very much. Unless he was using Michael as a rat for his experiments this thing is never done. The most I’ve seen in the science literature is 1:9 (9 parts of propofol mixed with one part of lidocaine) but even here scientists argue that it is no good as the effect of propofol could be diminished:

There have been reports in the literature indicating that the addition of lidocaine to Propofol in quantities greater than 20 mg lidocaine/200 mg Propofol results in instability of the emulsion which is associated with increases in globule sizes over time and (in rat studies) a reduction in anesthetic potency. Therefore, it is recommended that lidocaine be administered prior to Propofol administration or that it be added to Propofol immediately before administration and in quantities not exceeding 20 mg lidocaine/200 mg Propofol. http://www.drugs.com/pro/propofol.html

So since the 1:1 ratio is hardly possible, let me repeat that the most probable reason why Murray said he diluted lidocaine with propofol in equal parts is to create the impression that he administered propofol in the amount not higher than that of lidocaine.

Lidocaine could be easily calculated by the police on the basis of the vials left and if they had derived the quantity of propofol following the standard dilution formula this alone could have told them how much propofol was used.

HOW MUCH PROPOFOL WAS IT?

The amount of propofol administered to Michael that night must have been gigantic. Judging by lidocaine alone it was enormous. But the key evidence in this respect is the level of propofol in Michael’s blood and urine.

Roughly speaking the concentration of propofol in the blood mainly points to the amount of propofol Michael received after his death.  Why so? Because while the patient is alive most of the Propofol going into the body is breaking up and though it does accumulate in the body it is accumulating rather slowly (within hours).

After propofol stops dripping everything that built up in the body fully metabolizes within the next 5 minutes. Even if there is a breathing arrest the heart goes on beating for a period twice as long (10 minutes), and within this time all propofol should be gone from the system.

However all Michael’s tissues were loaded with propofol – he had propofol in every organ, even in his eyes. And this means that the drip went on even after his heart stopped. Propofol freely flowed into his body saturating him after his death with no one looking at him or taking care.

And the level of propofol in the urine shows how much propofol Michael received while he was still alive. Urine is produced only when the body is functioning, and this is when the residual propofol equivalent to 200ml went into the bladder. And it seems to me that this amount should be added to the propofol which accumulated in Michael’s blood after his death.

So how much propofol does it make all in all then? 300ml? Or even more?

And after that Valerie Wass says it was 25mg (2.5ml) only?

Valerie Wass wants us to think that there was no drip on that fateful night and Murray injected only one syringe, but does not explain how that dreadful amount of propofol could be found in Michael’s body. Michael is ruled out as even the biggest possible 10ml self-injection would not bring about a result even remotely close to the one found during the autopsy.

But if no dripping was involved the only other option left is that Murray injected syringe after syringe and did not stop even after the heart stopped. So does Wass want us to think that Murray committed a premeditated murder? And if she insists that it wasn’t Murray, then let him please name someone else who could have done it.

It would be great if Wass stopped retelling us Murray’s stories she so blindly believes in but tried to make Murray give truthful answers to questions we are indeed interested in. For example, what really happened the night when Michael died? And why was there a murmur of voices and a cough heard by Murray’s girlfriend on the phone when supposedly there was no one else there but Murray?  Or why were all video tapes from Michael’s home erased except for the moment when Murray arrived? And whose fingerprints were found on the saline bag with a propofol bottle inside it? And why doesn’t Murray tell us if anyone else entered the house after he arrived there?

In short we need to hear the answers and in case Valerie Wass really wants to do something for her client she should make him tell the truth instead of silencing him. Owing to people like Dr. Shafer we already know that Murray was grossly, unbelievable negligent towards Michael and that he uncontrollably gave him huge amounts of propofol without keeping to the very basic rules, but if he has anything else to tell us besides what we already know, let him tell the rest of it too.

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85 Comments leave one →
  1. July 6, 2014 5:53 pm

    —-
    Great article.There is a problem with my Computer or something.The first words are left under the”enter your comment..”Now that Murray is loose it is good to review old articles.His trial and then the stupid Wass thing.He, Murray says he will take it to the supreme court.Can he as he was denied the overturn of conviction?
    It is so unfair, Michael was killed, his killer is free following a really short jail time.I just reviewed the AEG trial. It has been bugging me ever since..So many stated that it was judicially correct. Maybe. But what was wrong with the jury? The answer to question nr 2 is ofcourse YES.

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  2. July 6, 2014 5:39 pm

    What a great article Helena on the propofol findings. I note I have made a mistake regarding the propofol metabolism. It is the unmetebolised form,ie the original molecular form that is measured in the urine to get the result of the amount propofol given. This is of course also what was measured in the original scientific experiment on several pleople.-Murray repeatedly talks of giving lidocaine 50/50 mixed with propofol.Possibly to somehow make it sound less severe.It is in contrast stupid. Why have so much lidocaine floating around the body. Lidicaine is given prior to propofol in order to work as a local anestetic for the injection of propofol.You can in fact use one needle stick, push in a few ml.of lidocaine, leave the needle in and switch to a tube or another syringe with propofol.

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  3. February 19, 2014 3:24 pm

    One more great piece of news – Conrad Murray’s appeal is denied!

    Michael Jackson – Conrad Murray Denied Rehearing In Appeal Case
    by WENN | 14 February 2014

    Michael Jackson’s former doctor Conrad Murrayhas been denied the chance to pursue an appeal of his involuntary manslaughter conviction.
    The medic was found guilty of causing the popstar’s 2009 death and served almost two years behind bars. Following his release from jail in October (13), he attempted to clear his name by appealing his conviction.

    However, officials at a District Court of Appeal in California rejected his claim last month (Jan14), and now they have made it clear he will not be able to pursue the case any further by rejecting his request to take his appeal to the state’s Supreme Court.

    In the ruling, obtained by Billboard.com, officials concluded, “Appellant’s petition for rehearing is denied.”

    Murray was convicted of involuntary manslaughter in 2011 following Jackson’s death from a lethal dose of the anaesthetic propofol.

    http://www.contactmusic.com/story/conrad-murray-denied-rehearing-in-appeal-case_4066921

    Like

  4. June 9, 2013 3:54 pm

    I am sure Murray just lied about giving lidocaine/propofol in a 1:1 proportion.And if so he would have done it throughout.For many,many weeks.He had been doing some cardiac diagnostic proceedures at the clinics with an anestetist giving the propofol.So even Murray may have noticed that lidocaine is given prior to a propofol injection as propofol burns like hell.Which goes to show that nothing he says can be taken for truth.

    Like

  5. sanemjfan permalink
    June 9, 2013 12:23 pm

    Here’s Flavor Flav’s new diss song dedicated to Conrad Murray! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8IdlvRBVzw

    Like

  6. May 3, 2013 9:32 am

    For the info to Valerie Wass. Michaels bladder with the propofol split from the fatty part showed that he had gotten 2036.xx mgs, this does not take into account of the propofol still in his blood and other organs,IE in the liquor in hie eyes. The fact of the finding in the kidneys shows that he had been given propofol over a reat.long period of time. Don´t forget the bottle on the table, there was propofol in that one too. Using the same scientific method it had a little less than the urine in his bladder which was filled to capacitybefore death #..In the trial against Murray there were several well informed special witnesses aware of the latest science on propofol. Don´t forget Murray first wanted pigs to be give propofol orally, a totally inane idea.
    Really I think you will go along with Murray´s out of the blue ideas and I should not give you any hints. But anyway .you have probably worked out some way around his ideas.
    Also familiarise yourself with the video his PR firm did for him. LOL.Do´t forget the Holy Spirit
    visiting him.# this speaks agaist one large injection, it indicates a drip

    Like

  7. April 27, 2013 2:38 am

    Sina, each of it is a great word of wisdom. So let me repeat:

    1. One thing we know for sure, Michael had no narcan implant when he died. Anything else is speculation. It doesn’t even make sense because an implant would be counterproductive with certain medication .

    2. And If he did have one, it is to his credit that he worked on prevention. Thats why there are gastric bypasses for obese people who have eating disorder to prevent them from overeating.

    3. What AEG is doing is character assassination. They make in into a personality trait that Michael alledgedly didn’t tell his doctor about an implant, suggesting he could also have lied to them.

    4. Praising him to high heaven in the media when he served their purpose and now trashing him because they are sued says much about their credibility.

    5. KJs lawyers should ask them why they contracted him if they knew all this. They had been after him for years and had enough time to do background checks.

    A version: In case they thought he was like that they could have simply used him and simulated some production activity hoping all the way that he would break well before the shows. The prize was all Michael’s assets. They could have looked at him as another of those “distressed property” like Neverland. Though this version is rather complex I cannot explain why it is going over and over in my mind.

    Like

  8. April 27, 2013 1:48 am

    “I have been arguing that the Narcan Implant story was false since the first time the media reported it. Ivy on Twitter and I went around and around about it.”

    Ivy on Twitter? I wonder if it is the same Ivy I was talking to today.

    I proved to her that here in the US there was no such thing as a Narcan IMplant until February of this year and she argued that he could have gotten it in a different country like Germany or Australia.I then asked her to point to the scarrring that would have been mentioned in the autopsy if that story was true.

    Lynette, you’ve made excellent points.

    So first, when David Fournier claimed that Michael did not tell him of that implant in 2003 Michael could not even know of it as it simply did not exist at the time.

    And second, since the coroner said no such implant was found, some will claim that it was taken out, but then it should have left the scarring of approximately the same size. But the coroner did not note anything of the kind either.

    Some of Michael fans have really started to accept that he was an addict and this really troubles me because the source of information for that story is the tabloid media.

    But are you sure that they are fans? I am no longer sure of anything at all.

    Like

  9. Sina permalink
    April 27, 2013 1:22 am

    One thing we know for sure, Michael had no narcan implant when he died. Anything else is speculation. It doesn’t even make sense because an implant would be counterproductive with certain medication . And If he did have one, it is to his credit that he worked on prevention. Thats why there are gastric bypasses for obese people who have eating disorder to prevent them from overeating.
    What AEG is doing is character assassination. They make in into a personality trait that Michael alledgedly didn’t tell his doctor about an implant, suggesting he could also have lied to them. They cant prove either but they do it to tarnish his image and they know the shock value works as is proven by fans reactions , some of which are really shocking to me. Posthumously trashing the character of a a victim of manslaughter is abject, no jury will fall for it. Praising him to high heaven in the media when he served their purpose and now trashing him because they are sued says much about their credibility.
    KJs lawyers should ask them why they contracted him if they knew all this. They had been after him for years and had enough time to do background checks.
    If they keep pushing the liar angle they are doomed as there is more than enough documented evidence of AEGs own pattern of lies.

    Like

  10. April 27, 2013 1:04 am

    “computer is crazy tonight. I’m trying to send you a screen shot, like you told me but nothing is working. I sent you a long post but I don’t think it sent either. I keep getting this same malware message. I wrote it down word for word for you but I don’t see it in the comment section. I don’t know what’s going on.”

    Linda, can you ask some computer guy for advice and an explanation what it is? If you can’t post it here in the comments can you send me some information via “Contact us”? Not that I am an expert but I can at least seek advice too.

    Like

  11. lynande51 permalink
    April 26, 2013 6:10 pm

    I have been arguing that the Narcan Implant story was false since the first time the media reported it. Ivy on Twitter and I went around and around about it. I proved to her that here in the US there was no such thing as a Narcan IMplant until February of this year and she argued that he could have gotten it in a different country like Germany or Australia.I then asked her to point to the scarrring that would have been mentioned in the autopsy if that story was true.

    Some of Michael fans have really started to accept that he was an addict and this really troubles me because the source of information for that story is the tabloid media.

    Like

  12. Linda permalink
    April 26, 2013 11:06 am

    HELENA

    computer is crazy tonight. I’m trying to send you a screen shot, like you told me but nothing is working. I sent you a long post but I don’t think it sent either. I keep getting this same malware message. I wrote it down word for word for you but I don’t see it in the comment section. I don’t know what’s going on.

    Like

  13. April 25, 2013 11:11 am

    “my Google Chrome came up with a message that said your website was infected with malware that could steal my identity and all kinds of bad stuff happening to my computer.”– Linda

    OMG, how can it be infected if it is a wordpress site – one of the millions they have? However if this is the case and someone has done it to me could you make a screenshot of what you see so that I can send it to WordPress? The poor hosting service has so much trouble with me that I even feel sorry for them.

    In theory someone could try to enter this blog to steal my password and destroy the blog from within, or it may be a trick to drive people away from it (and then who is doing it I wonder?)

    This is how screenshots are made:

    Using Your Keyboard

    1 Open the application, browser window or anything else you may want to take a screen shot of.

    2 Press the key PrtSc to capture the full screen. Press Alt+PrtSc to capture only the active portion of a screen.

    3 Open a program such as Paint and press Ctrl + V to paste in the image.

    4 Save the image.

    Read more: How to Make a Screenshot | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_4531194_make-screenshot.html#ixzz2RSLwcM5l

    Like

  14. Linda permalink
    April 25, 2013 8:55 am

    Wow, I just spent all this time writing a post here, and my Google Chrome came up with a message that said your website was infected with malware that could steal my identity and all kinds of bad stuff happening to my computer. I tried to copy and paste it to you, but it wouldn’t even let me copy it. I don’t know where that came from and I don’t see my post, so I don’t know what just happened.

    Like

  15. April 25, 2013 1:09 am

    “And those who dont care to look for the truth dont understand that this will totally negate Valerie Wass.. argument that he was in Demerol withdrawal.” – kaarin

    Indeed, if the implant nullifies the effect of opiate-based drugs why did Klein use Demerol as a painkiller then? (Klein said that he never prescribed it and used it only during the cosmetic procedures to dull the pain).

    And why did Michael have insomnia allegedly as an after-effect of Demerol if it did not take effect anyway?

    No logic applies here. They simply want to hit and run, leaving the people to consume the lie.

    BUT WHY DON’T PEOPLE CARE TO LOOK FOR THE TRUTH? This question bothers me more than anything else.

    Like

  16. April 25, 2013 12:55 am

    And those who dont care to look for the truth dont understand that this will totally negate Valerie Wass.. argument that he was in Demerol withdrawal.

    Like

  17. April 25, 2013 12:40 am

    “Still 200 publisist made the attempt..” – kaarin

    All media sources readily reprinted the “news” which comes now under one headline: “Michael Jackson had secret implant”. If you type it in Yahoo as I did you will have page after page with the same title, and this will go deep into down into level 20 or more.

    Here is the way I still see it on level 15 – the “news” was reprinted all over the world without fail:

    AND THERE IS NOT A SINGLE ATTEMPT TO PUBLISH THE CORONER’S MESSAGE AND DISPROVE THIS STORY!

    Now I see no real difference between the English-language media and my country’s media propaganda machine.
    The same style, the same scope. It is disgusting.

    Like

  18. April 25, 2013 12:38 am

    Yes Helena,the jihad radicalisation is making progress in many areas of the world. I am wondering what makes it so attractive.

    Like

  19. April 25, 2013 12:17 am

    re that implant. It has been said that it is difficult to prove something that did not happen.And trying to prove it by such strong wording,explosive, secret,addict, all negatives pointing to Michael.
    Still 200 publisist made the attempt..

    Like

  20. April 24, 2013 11:21 pm

    Let me post here the great document provided by Laura Messina on facebook. It is the answer of the Coroner who performed the autopsy on Michael Jackson to the question whether he could confirm the information published by the Sun. The Sun claimed that an anti-drug implant had been found on Michael’s body:

    DRUG-ravaged Michael Jackson had a secret medical implant to stop him getting pleasure from opiates, The Sun can reveal.
    The Thriller star was fitted with the device — which dosed him with Narcan — in 2003 to battle the hopeless addiction that led to his death aged 50. Narcan — trade name for naloxone — is prescribed for heroin or morphine addicts. It works by blocking pleasure receptors in the brain — making drug taking pointless.
    The implant was found in the King of Pop’s body after he died but has only just come to light in explosive newly released court papers.
    They contain evidence from one of Jacko’s former doctors, Beverly Hills anaesthetist David Fournier who treated him in the 1990s and early 2000s.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/4882089/michael-jackson-used-secret-anti-drug-implant.html

    The Coroner’s office which not only performed the autopsy but also studied the medical records replied that no such device had been found and no medical records had any reference to it:

    Hello Laura,

    The information in the article is incorrect. No such device was found and we have seen no medical records that document or even refer to the device.

    Craig R.Harvey
    Chief Coroner Investigator & Chief of Operations
    Department of Coroner
    County of Los Angeles

    1104 North Mission Road
    Los Angeles, CA 90033

    The false information is found on at least 23 levels of Google pages which makes more than 200 articles reprinting the story, but I have not been able to find a single English-language article publishing the truth.

    The only one which posted it was an Italian source: http://www.zimbio.com/Michael+Jackson/articles/yBevv8d7dva/Ennesima+baggianata+mediatica+su+Michael+Jackson

    Like

  21. April 24, 2013 11:06 pm

    “now that the identities of the 2 men who set the bombs in Boston are known it is difficult to understand their motives.Supposedly legally in US and from Chechnya or Kazakstan.I do not think there are religious fanatics in those regions.” –

    Kaarin, in Chechnya there are no religious fanatics? I am afraid you are misinformed. I am really sorry to hear about the many wounded and the dead.

    Like

  22. April 19, 2013 10:55 pm

    now that the identities of the 2 men who set the bombs in Boston are known it is difficult to understand their motives.Supposedly legally in US and from Chechnya or Kazakstan.I do not think there are religious fanatics in those regions. Why attack innocent people at an event meant for people from all over the world. They could as well have been participants.

    Like

  23. April 19, 2013 8:41 am

    @ Helena,

    “gross injustice done to honest people at my place now and the fact that the majority seems to be indifferent to it. This is indeed a suffocating feeling.”

    It is a prevailing theme and feeling found in many places these days. It occurs when people become accustoming to losing, to being ignored and therefore accept or hide from what they believe they have no power to fix. People who believe they are powerless become fearful of losing the little they do have it they try to speak out again. This is the means by which Nations have been conquered and the people opposed and displaced. But then you know this already.

    On a lighter note. CNN is in the doghouse with the FBI & Boston PD. They are still trying to recover from their hasty, unauthorized and incorrect report that a suspect for the Boston Bombing had been identified and arrested. Their fellow Media dined well on CNN’s embarrassment.

    Even FOX News tried to act above such actions.

    Like

  24. April 19, 2013 12:42 am

    “True, we have to be strong with this upcoming trial, but don’t lose hope. So far all of Michael’s trials always ended with a victory for him.”

    Susanne, justice must prevail one day or otherwise we will have to reconcile to the fact that all of us are doomed. And I keep my fingers crossed about the AEG trial too. My present feelings are mostly connected with something different – with gross injustice done to honest people at my place now and the fact that the majority seems to be indifferent to it. This is indeed a suffocating feeling.

    Like

  25. April 19, 2013 12:42 am

    Dear Helena,

    I imagine you have heard of the latest with Jason P. and an alleged audio message from Klein’s office. A recording he just happen to retrieve obviously from the office system on to a separate device. Although I guess he could have used his status in the office to access elsewhere and then recorded to a separate device. Does not make much difference as I believe either to be an illegal act.

    A recording he has given to Radar Online which published it online for its’ readers. Thus far Radar Online has allowed him 3 new articles.

    The first: “Michael Jackson Feared Being Shot Says Friend”.

    The second: “Secret Michael Jackson Voicemail: King Of Pop Caught On Tape ‘Shopping For Drugs’ Just Seven Weeks Before His Death”

    The third: “Crying Michael Jackson Spoke Of How He ‘Couldn’t Forgive’ Dad Joe For Childhood Abuse, Reveals Pal.”

    All these private conversations which cannot be disputed, but will be extremely helpful to painting a special “commissioned” picture.

    Funny how they are quick to slap the “friend”, “insider” and “pal” label on any piece of dung who occupied space with Michael.

    J,P or as I call him J.F. has “offered” his services… uh I mean testimony and information to AEG. I am so sure it is done out of the goodness of his heart without expectation of recompense, because he has shown himself to be that kid of loyal, selfless and not voraciously greedy person.

    I am trying to stay away from the Tabs, but I wanted the audio recording.

    I have a new word for you. “Mimic”. There is a series of horror movies where the creature is a giant roach. It can cover its true self with the shell of a human being. It does discard the shell at will and take on another human shell. Jason Pfeiffer like so many others is a Mimic.

    It is a great pity that Michael had “Mimics” during his lifetime and even more now that he is gone.

    Like

  26. Susannerb permalink*
    April 18, 2013 11:04 pm

    Helena, we who hate injustice, greed and immorality, will always suffer from it and be frustrated about the human race, as long as we live. But I’m convinced there will be a time when justice will prevail.
    I like to read the Proverbs of the wise King Solomon who was loved by God, though he was also a sinner:
    “The fears of the wicked will overcome them; the desire of the righteous will be granted.” (Proverbs 10,24)
    “A false witness will not escape punishment, and one who utters nothing but lies will not go free.” (Proverbs 19,5)
    “Though the good man may fall seven times, he is soon up again, but the rascal is brought down by misfortune.” (Proverbs 24,16)

    I love this divine wisdom and I believe in it. And we have to keep this always in mind, as long as we have to deal with these “inhumane beings”. True, we have to be strong with this upcoming trial, but don’t lose hope. So far all of Michael’s trials always ended with a victory for him.

    Like

  27. April 18, 2013 10:32 pm

    The virus must have been placed by someone absilutely hating all thruth or maybe by a p/file.

    Like

  28. April 18, 2013 10:15 pm

    Michael said,I never smile while performing. This is not so, in the early days or decade of his career he did smile.

    Like

  29. April 18, 2013 4:51 pm

    Guys, I would still like to sum up a few more things about AEG Live and will make a couple of posts to get ready for this trial – if I manage to overcome my present frustration with the injustice and immorality which seem to be ruling the world. This will never end unless people change and reevaluate things, but is there a hope that it will ever happen?

    Your part of the world is full of greed and immorality, my part of the world is full of greed, immorality and abuse of power, so how is it possible to survive here? Lies are suffocating. I even envy those millions of people who have adjusted to this atmosphere and no longer need the oxygen of truth.

    Have you noticed that at some point Michael simply stopped smiling? I think it is because of his great dissillusionment in human beings.

    Like

  30. April 18, 2013 3:56 pm

    “No matter what, we all know that Murray is guilty and screwed up in every way that a doctor can. Everything he did was wrong. Still, there’s too many unanswered questions, and still, AEG has a LOT to answer for. Hopefully all the guilty people will come out in this trial.” – Linda

    I hope for it too. Everything we have already found (and will find) about AEG does not absolve Murray of his guilt. His negligence and carefree attitude to what he was doing is criminal and his lies and desire to shift all the blame to Michael are disgusting.

    But AEG is no better either. Even if none of them did any physical harm to Michael their guilt is still enormous – they took advantage of his vulnerability, they exploited and humiliated him, they aggravated his anxiety and turned his insomnia into something totally incurable, thus creating a problem Murray so unsuccessfully tried to cope with.

    In fact the AEG people simply abused Michael. And abusing him in a state he was in after the 2005 trial and all his vagabond travels around the world was like abusing a child.

    Like

  31. April 18, 2013 3:27 pm

    “I’ll take the opportunity to remind you to see the excellent Danish movie with Mads Michelson, JAGTEN in English The Hunt. Every fan, and hater too for that matter should see it.” – kaarin

    I was punished for trying to download it free by catching a terrible virus which disabled my computer for some time. But I hear that the film is very good. Here is the trailer:

    Like

  32. Linda permalink
    April 18, 2013 9:16 am

    I actually expected at least some of the crap about AEG to come out during Murray’s trial. I felt so let down that nothing came out. I guess it took a whole different approach, “law suit” to bring it all out and “This is it”. Hopefully we’re going to finally get to the bottom of it with Katherine’s law suit.

    No matter what, we all know that Murray is guilty and screwed up in every way that a doctor can. Everything he did was wrong, and he will have to live with that for the rest of his life. I do think he is a fall guy, or scape goat too, but that is by his own choosing. He played along with it knowingly or not? He was a doctor who did not take care of his patient, and broke all of the rules of medicine. Guilty as charged!

    Still, there’s too many unanswered questions, and still, AEG has a LOT to answer for. Hopefully all the guilty people will come out in this trial.

    On a brighter note, just have to say that Paris is looking so beautiful. Michael would be very proud of her.

    Like

  33. April 18, 2013 1:44 am

    While waiting ,forever it seems, to find jurors and to seal various info I’ll take the opportunity to remind you to see the excellent Danish movie with Mads Michelson, JAGTEN in English The Hunt. Every fan, and hater too for that matter should see it.

    Like

  34. April 17, 2013 6:14 am

    Something wrong with my computer again..meant to say that it takes less than a minute to empty that line from the bottle that had the proofol bottle inside. Its a no/brainer,so if no wetness noticed,it had just easily been emptied.

    Like

  35. April 17, 2013 6:02 am

    Lyn has given extensive info on the propofol infusion,injections and equipment. I will only add,as some say that the long line Murray is ooaid to have put in his pocket would have been too wet to show.–Now recall that paramedic Blount saw murray still

    Like

  36. April 16, 2013 7:15 pm

    Can anyone answer me a question about the picture in the LATimes mentioned earlier? The comment to the picture says: Michael Jackson in “This Is It.” (Kevin Mazur / May 28, 2009)

    So the question is: Is it supposed to be Central Staging at Burbank judging by the date?

    I thought it was the picture of one of the last rehearsals at Staples Center. They moved to Forum Inglewood at the beginning of June and on June 22nd to the Staples Center.

    Central Staging does not even have a stage:

    The way it looks to me AEG is rewriting history now pretending that this rehearsal took place at the end of May, while in reality it was June 23d.

    Can anyone confirm or refute it?

    Like

  37. April 16, 2013 9:51 pm

    Guys, the date accompanying the picture in the LA Times http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-ln-la-jackson-aeg-20130410,0,5459012.story showing Michael on stage is a forgery. The photo shows an episode from This is it but is dated MAY 28, 2009 which is wrong.

    At that time the whole team was at Central staging – a big angar near the airport. At the beginning of June they moved to Forum Inglewood and only on June 22nd they went to the Staples Center.

    “This is it” was filmed on two locations – Forum Inglewood and Staples Center, and since that picture is taken from “This is it”, even in theory it could not be made on May 28, 2009 because the team had not yet even moved to the Forum (or Staples Center where the picture was most probably taken).

    Why are the AEG Live, their PR company and the media changing the dates of the photos from “This is it” footage dating them a month earlier?

    Because they are pretending that they still had very much time ahead of them.

    In reality the picture was most probably made on June 23d in the Staples Center.

    P.S. The dates began to be attached to the name of photographer Kevin Mazur only recently.

    Like

  38. April 16, 2013 6:03 pm

    Jackson-AEG: Trial hasn’t started, but lawyers are already fighting


    Michael Jackson in “This Is It.” (Kevin Mazur / May 28, 2009)

    By Corina Knoll
    April 10, 2013, 3:44 p.m.

    The legal showdown between Michael Jackson’s family and AEG has yet to begin, but sparks are already flying between attorneys.
    For more than a week, jurors have been brought into Superior Court Judge Yvette M. Palazuelos’ courtroom in groups of 35 and asked whether they had the ability to serve on a trial that is estimated to take as long as four months.

    On Wednesday, after Palazuelos mentioned the court could schedule a couple days off to accommodate jurors during the trial, attorney Brian Panish objected to prolonging proceedings in any way.

    “I don’t have 1,000-plus lawyers in my law firm and I don’t have 20 lawyers working on this case,” said Panish, who represents Jackson’s mother, Katherine, and the pop star’s three children.

    The four filed a wrongful death lawsuit alleging that AEG negligently hired and supervised Dr.Conrad Murray, who gave the singer a fatal dose of the anesthetic propofol. The family alleges that the entertainment firm pushed the singer to go forward with a comeback tour even though he was physically incapable of handling it.

    AEG, an entertainment giant and a major player in Los Angeles, alleges that Jackson was an eccentric who shopped for doctors and demanded that Murray be brought on board for the tour.

    Jackson died two weeks before a planned series of comeback concerts promoted by AEG Live. The tour was to open in London.
    Panish accused AEG’s attorneys of dragging the case out and filing unnecessary motions that forced him to seek additional time to write responses.
    Palazuelos said she believed the trial could be whittled down to 60 days if both sides cut down their lengthy witness lists, which total more than 200 names, including Prince, Diana Ross, Spike Lee and Lisa Marie Presley.

    At one point, the discussion became heated with attorneys speaking over one another. Panish said he had made efforts to be civil but that the defense was wasting court resources by turning everything into “World War III.”

    “Is that part of your civility?” AEG’s attorney Marvin Putnam asked.
    “Excuse me?” replied Panish, quickly adding, “You’re the most uncivil lawyer I’ve ever practiced against.”
    “Are we really going to do this, your honor?” Putnam asked Palazuelos.
    “C’mon,” said Panish. “Bring it on.”

    A pool of potential jurors who have demonstrated that serving on the trial would not cause them hardship is scheduled to be questioned starting Monday.
    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-ln-la-jackson-aeg-20130410,0,5459012.story

    Like

  39. April 16, 2013 3:33 pm

    Laura Messina is writing about the current court proceedings based on TeamMichaelJackson twitter updates:

    Laura Messina 11:23am Apr 16

    JACKSONS vs AEG TRIAL UPDATE:

    Hearing started with counsel’s long discussions about what/who should be on verdict form for Jurors when finding liability Should Randy Phillips, Paul Gongaware as opposed to AEGLive, AEGLive Productions (which was formed 4 TII tour) judge will rule later.There were lengthy arguments whether Conrad Murray’s name should be on a line. AEG attorneys didn’t want Murrays name, Panish stated AEGLive have never admitted Murray did anything wrong, Judge did agree Murray to name. AEG stated Guardian ad litem had to do a waiver for plaintiffs to receive any damages awarded. Panish stated this to be ridiculous as judge assess who is awarded portion of damages. Is this another plot BY AEG, entry door for BRANCA, as he controls guardian ad litem? Usually award to minors is deposited into trust account till they are of age. AEG attorneys saying MJ was not “sole” supporter of KJ, so will try reduce damages from this angle. Saying other fam members supported KJ.

    AEG WERE going to hold Mrs Jackson liable for the death of Michael Jackson!!!The claim against Mrs Jackson would’ve been a countersuit. Jude ruled against it. Decision on Verdict Forms will be made later by Judge.

    Judge Yvette Palazuelos gave each perspective juror a list of plaintiffs and defendants potential witnesses. They looked over to see if they knew anyone.

    One of the Jurors has a very close friend, talked to every night, worked on This Is It. He knows guitarist too. He is music producer, he knows Lisa Marie and Sharon Osbourne. He met Randy Jackson (just said “Hello” to). He was at memorial with KJ and MJ3 He said he heard every night what was happening at TII. Judge asked him if he could put everything aside and focus on the evidence presented and reach a decision on the evidence produced in court. He replied “I know what happened, now people are trying to do other things, i know the facts 1st hand already”. Sidebar called, Juror excused.

    Jurors Mother knows Dr Warren since before Juror was born, 25+years, had brunch with him just yesterday. Not excused.

    Juror was at a social gathering attended by Murray (after 06/25/o9) didn’t know who he was till Murray was in the news. Not excused.
    Juror has religious believes against passing judgment/awarding $$ damages, it shouldbe left up to higher power. JUDGE didn’t excuse. The judge juror stated she had met Tom Mez few times. Bar/multi cultural events. Not excused.

    One juror wanted to be excused his daughter works for accountant for MJEstate, was excused because found to have difficulty processing info.

    17 jurors dismissed yesterday, 87 remaining in the pool. They are ordered back tomorrow morning to resume jury selection. First order of business today will be hearing on protective order and sealing of docs. Judge to decide what will be public and what not. The hearing will be out of the presence of the jury.

    https://twitter.com/TeamMichael777

    Like

  40. April 16, 2013 2:25 pm

    TeamMichaelJackson has an excellent account of the court proceedings at the Jacksons/AEG trial – weeks 1 and 2 (highly recommended).

    Among many other things the blog reflects a fight the opposing parties have over the position of the Estate. AEG says the Estate wants many documents sealed and at first it produced the impression that the Estate was on AEG’s side, but the next day the Estate stated they wanted MJ’s medical records sealed and the depositions related to Michael’s medical condition filed by AEG – and now this looks like they don’t want Michael’s name dragged through the mud. At least this is the way I gathered it.

    All of it is extremely interesting:

    http://teammichaeljackson.com/archives/8110

    Like

  41. April 16, 2013 2:10 pm

    “It was just a commentator stating that Paris let in Randy Philips that night Micael was murdered.” – kaarin

    I’ve just found on TeamMichaelJackson a reference to a Youtube video where LaToya Jackson says that Michael’s children told her they allowed Randy Phillips into Michael’s house when he was still at a rehearsal on June 24th! And they did not see him leave the house before they went to bed.

    Well, if only it were not LaToya who is saying it… She starts talking about it at around 5:00

    http://teammichaeljackson.com/archives/8072

    Like

  42. April 16, 2013 1:57 pm

    Michael Jackson’s doctor says he’s a ‘scapegoat’ for star’s death

    Amid the Jackson family’s $40 billion wrongful death lawsuit against AEG Live, Conrad Murray — who was sent to prison for the death of Michael Jackson — is telling his side of the story.

    April 3, 2013, 4:05 a.m.
    Michael Jackson’s former doctor is speaking out on the eve of a civil trial in which the King of Pop’s family is seeking money from entertainment giant AEG.

    Jackson’s mother and children are suing the Los Angeles entertainment giant, alleging it is liable for Jackson’s death because it hired and supervised Dr. Conrad Murray, who used a powerful surgical anesthetic in an effort to help the singer cope with insomnia. Murray was convicted of involuntary manslaughter in 2011.

    In an interview with CNN from behind bars, Murray defended his actions with respect to Jackson. He said he was “in the wrong place at the wrong time.”

    “My entire approach may not have been an orthodox approach, but my intentions were good,” he told CNN. “I think that is the definition of a scapegoat. Nobody has taken any responsibilities for anything that they may have done to this man but, because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, then here I am.”

    Jury selection in the case began late Tuesday morning and is expected to run for days before opening statements in the case are made.

    The case is likely to veer into the sensational, pitting Jackson’s towering legacy against a business enterprise that has had a profound influence on the entertainment scene, particularly in Los Angeles.

    Though the trial will zero in on whether the singer or AEG is responsible for hiring Murray, testimony will likely touch on the singer’s death, his feeble state as his much-anticipated comeback tour approached and his eccentricities.

    In court papers, Jackson’s family has described AEG as a heartless, money-driven machine that pushed Jackson to prepare for a tour that he was not physically capable of pulling off.

    AEG says it in no way controlled the singer and that bringing Murray aboard as Jackson’s personal physician was Jackson’s choice. The company, in court papers, said it recommended hiring a British doctor.

    Jackson’s “This Is It” comeback concerts were to have debuted in London in 2009. The singer died two weeks before the tour was to launch.
    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-michael-jacksons-doctor-says-hes-a-scapegoat-for-stars-death-20130402,0,4763310.story

    Like

  43. April 16, 2013 11:39 am

    “That is another part of Murray’s story that has to be a lie when you look at the amount of propofol and the amount of lidocaine then they should have been equal if he was mixing them 1:1.” – lynande

    This is exactly what I also found – even the ratio of 1:9 (instead of the recommended 1:10) destabilizes propofol, so if Murray was giving it in the ratio of 1:1 it means that he was conducting experiments on Michael as if on a rat.

    But most probably all his talk about equal parts of lidocaine and propofol is a big lie, meant to conceal the huge amount of propofol he actually gave him. If lidocaine is diluted as it should (1:10) its empty bottles point to no less than 300ml of propofol given to Michael.

    I am afraid that Murray is a pathological liar who is totally incapable of telling the truth. Even if he testifies he will probably tell a new pile of lies, so it would probably be best for him to keep silence after all. This person is hopeless.

    Like

  44. lynande51 permalink
    April 16, 2013 5:26 am

    Oh and I forgot that the IV canula that he was using was smaller than recommended for propofol because it is mixed in a lipid base and that makes the solution thicker consistancy. No you are not supposed to mix lidocaine in with the propofol because it destablizes. You can inject a small amount into the vein before starting the propofol but not in with it. That is another part of Murray’s story that has to be a lie when you look at the amount of propofol and the amount of lidocaine then they should have been equal if he was mixing them 1:1.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12873935
    .

    Like

  45. lynande51 permalink
    April 16, 2013 5:12 am

    Actually the 2.5 ml of propofol can never get from the port to the IV canula the way Murray described it because he said he stopped the saline drip. If Michael had done it it would have been the same, it never would ahve gone into him.The IV tubing isn’t just longer it is a larger gauge meaning the inside hollow part is bigger.

    Like

  46. April 16, 2013 1:56 am

    I dont put much weight on that comment really. What was outrageous though was the fact that as soon as he had made his speech at the official declaration of Michaels death he,Thome, goes to Carolwood 100. It wastill Michaels private home and Thome going there was utterly disrespectful.It would not have surprised me if he had retained a key for himself.

    Like

  47. April 15, 2013 9:17 pm

    As far as I know Wass is not arguing that it was murder – it was just an attempt at irony on my part. – VMJ – It was irony on my part as well. I know thats not her full intention but based on her claims in harmony with the facts of what was in Michael’s system -she’s painting an even more negligent picture of Murray which I didn’t think was possible.

    Like

  48. April 15, 2013 5:28 pm

    “It was just a commentator stating that Paris let in Randy Philips that night Micael was murdered. I can not vouch for the veracity of the statement.”

    Kaarin, no, I hope not. The children must have been asleep though Paris said she always waited for her father to come home. But still this sounds to me as some terrible misunderstanding. People who mean harm to others don’t manifest it so openly. And there are a dozen other ways of getting into the house besides using the key. In fact someone could have arrived there quite openly. As far as I know no one even asked the guards.

    Let me say that all this talk is just a theory and in case some of it is true it does not absolve Murray of his enormous guilt. Among many other things he should have never left his patient alone – no matter what. Sending emails and talking to girls while his patient is under a drip of such a powerful anesthesia is equivalent to a desire to kill him.

    But if there is anyone else in this terrible story these people should also answer – even if their only guilt is in manipulating the doctor.

    Like

  49. April 15, 2013 4:02 pm

    Murray had entered through the gate before Michael arrived late on 24.th or after midnight 25.th.The comment was on youtube, .Dr. Conrad Murray Walks out of interview 8 days before guilty verdict,dated 10.11 .11. It was just a commentator stating that Paris let in Randy Philips that night Micael was murdered. I can not vouch for the veracity of the statement. Just that Murray justifies the delay with the 911 call that nobody could open the gates. Well Murray could and could have sent the chef, she also had a key I suppose.

    Like

  50. April 15, 2013 3:42 pm

    “My last comment mysteriously disappeared.It concerned the ease of Thome and Randy Phillips to enter Michaels home. I was also referring to a post on www. 10.11.2012”

    Kaarin, I haven’t seen it and it is not in the spam either. I was rewriting the end of the post as my poor attempt at irony only confuses people and I tried to clarify my point.

    Please repeat the comment if you can.

    As regards someone else entering the house I am thinking only of Tohme. It seems to me that he is the only person (out of those we know) who is capable of anything really outrageous. His former or current associates probably even feel awkward that their names are associated with such a shady character.

    And Tohme had easy access to the house. It was him who rented it in the first place and he was regarded by everyone as Michael’s manager – Randy Phillips introduced him as such only a couple of days before that. So who would object to Tohme’s coming? No one would. And knowing Michael’s nocturnal style it would not be even suspicious.

    Like

  51. April 15, 2013 3:27 pm

    My last comment mysteriously disappeared.It concerned the ease of Thome and Randy Phillips to enter Michaels home. I was also referring to a post on www. 10.11.2012.

    Like

  52. April 15, 2013 2:44 pm

    “Wass is arguing that Murray is not guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter because hes guilty of Second degree murder or first degree. Is she really serious?” – Tatum

    As far as I know Wass is not arguing that it was murder – it was just an attempt at irony on my part. What I mean is that if she insists that there was no dripping that night then it should have been a syringe injecting that huge amount of propofol, and since it wasn’t Michael as Dr. Shafer so effectively proved, then someone else did it.

    The obvious choice is Conrad Murray himself, but if it is not him (as he says he didn’t do it) let him name who it might be. As simple as that.

    However I don’t doubt the dripping theory – Michael must have been on a drip that night. All I am saying is that if we follow Wass’s words it gets only worse.

    Like

  53. April 15, 2013 2:25 pm

    Michael never injected himself with anything. Not propofol or anything other either. He was needle phobic. It takes both hands and some dexteririty to get 2.5 ml from a bottle.
    It was never investigated what was in that storage unit Murray had 2 female friends clean out on June 25 2009. Who were they and why the hurry.
    Recalling the pic of his bed and the bag for urine from the catheter he was not able to easily remove himself from this entrapment.I recall that the bottle on the table was also examined for propofol.

    Like

  54. April 15, 2013 1:30 pm

    “I think I can help you out without you having to go through all kinds of calculations about how much propofol Murray gave Michael.” – lynande

    Thank you, but these calculations should be made anyway as it is a one hundred per cent proof that Michael could never self-inject the killing quantity of propofol himself.

    Even if he had infused the full 10ml syringe of pure propofol, by the time his heart stopped its level in blood would still be much lower than the one found in his body.

    If the dripping process was on and someone else came up, interrupted the dripping, injected a syringe and then continued with the dripping, it would have been possible, but Michael could not do it because a single shot of it does not produce such a result.

    What I mean is that if Murray keeps insisting that Michael died of a single injection of propofol, it was done by someone else and not Michael. And it could have happened only on the background of dripping. Dr. Shafer naturally did not look into such a possibility because this scenario is not simple negligence – it is murder. I am not saying that it happened this way, but it was possible.

    P.S. Actually if someone wanted to kill I realize that there was a much easier opportunity for it – someone could come up to the IV stand, ease the roller on the tubing so that propofol freely flowed and arrested breathing by terribly rising in concentration, and then adjust the roller on the tubing to where it was before.

    Again, I don’t insist that it happened this way – just showing how easy it was under those circumstances.

    Like

  55. April 15, 2013 1:17 pm

    “when Murray said that he gave Michael 25 mgs it would have actually been 2.5 ml of fluid drawn into a 10 ml/cc syringe. Believe it or not that is actually hard to do because it is a small amount of fluid in a syringe that is large.” – lynande

    Yes, I understood it the moment I realized that the syringe was 10ml and the quantity drawn in was supposed to be only 2,5ml. Is this why Murray said he was mixing it with lidocaine 1:1 though it should be only 1:10? Just to “give more body” to it? Sorry for keeping asking about that 1:1 ratio – I simply want to know whether it was correct to dilute propofol with an equal quantity of lidocaine, and what its ramifications may be.

    This small quantity of 2,5 ml makes it clearer why Dr. Shafer said that the method described by Murray (injecting 2,5 ml in the tubing) was simply not possible – all this quantity would simply sit in the tubing.

    Dr. White tried to deceive the jury and to demostrate how Murray allegedly did it he took a very short tubing (some 20cm) and injected a bigger quantity of propofol (5ml) mixed with lidocaine 1:1 (another 5ml) and it is only then that the mixture began dripping out:

    And Dr. Shafer shows that standard tubing is much longer, so if 2,5ml of propofol is injected it won’t easily drip out of it:

    Like

  56. TatumMarie permalink
    April 15, 2013 8:29 am

    I really like this article Helena. It puts into perspective the events leading to Michaels death and how there is no way he could have injected himself with so much propofol. Wass is arguing that Murray is not guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter because hes guilty of Second degree murder or first degree. Is she really serious? I watched that interview on CNN mind boggled.

    Like

  57. lynande51 permalink
    April 15, 2013 6:37 am

    Helena I think I can help you out without you having to go through all kinds of calculations about how much propofol Murray gave Michael. Propofol is a solute in a liquid so it is 10 mg of the solute propofol per ml of fluid that it is mixed in. In other words when Murray said that he gave Michael 25 mgs it would have actually been 2.5 ml of fluid drawn into a 10 ml/cc syringe. Believe it or not that is actually hard to do because it is a small amount of fluid in a syringe that is large. I guess I’m just saying that from someone who draws medications into syringes everyday of my life it would have been impossible for Michael to do in a semi conscious state like he would have been from waking up from Murray’s supposed 25 mg.

    Like

  58. April 14, 2013 11:32 pm

    “although my heart was breaking, from a medical point of view it was riveting. If only it had been a drama and not real life.” – MagUK

    Yes, there were so many conflicting emotions about it – the triumph of science, the increduility of seeing Murray so incompetent and mean, and the unbearable thought that Michael’s death could have been averted so easily. All Murray needed to do was to at least look.

    P.S. The doctor witnesses explained everything in a dispassionate scientific manner but some scenes were really tragic. I think it was Dr. Steinberg who said that breathing doesn’t stop at once – it slows down and simply dies away with every breath. When breathing stops the heart gets agitated and starts beating faster asking for more oxygen. Then it also slows down. And this lasts for full ten minutes.

    Just imagine that right at that time Murray was sending emails, discussing insurance or speaking to girls. What does all of it matter in comparison with a chance to live?

    Like

  59. April 14, 2013 11:18 pm

    “You are doing a great job Helena..No matter how we “add up the numbers” (for want of a better expression) the answer is the same inasmuch as the explanations/evidence given at the trial represent the truth.” – magUK

    Mag, thank you very much for your kind words. Now I realize that a good job was indeed done, but it was during Conrad Murray’s trial. Now I can find almost everything in the posts made for each of those 6 weeks.

    Some typos in those posts have now been corrected, and in the process of work I found one more great proof that Michael could never self-inject himself with propofol. I’ve added it to the current post:

    Okay, even if we agreed that Michael Jackson self-injected himself with propofol and imagined the worst scenario possible – that he did it with a FULL 10ml (100mg) syringe, Dr. Shafer proved in a separate computer simulation that the result of this scenario would be totally inconsistent with the findings of the autopsy report.

    Following the earlier described method he showed that 10 minutes after the respiratory arrest, when the heart stops and the level of propofol gets “fixed” in the blood, the propofol quantity (0.7mcg) will still be much lower than the 2.6mcg really found in Michael’s veins:

    No, Michael did not die as a result of a self-injected shot. He was under the drip. And if a shot was made to him on the background of the drip it should have been done by someone else.

    Like

  60. April 14, 2013 9:39 pm

    Body fat is is naturally lighter than water. Other organ tissues come close enough to the weight of water.I dont think they even took those amounts still in the body into account when calculating the total propofol given. They checked them for propofol concentration ,for ex I recall the concentration in the liver was given and the concentration of the liquor of his eyes. The latter mostly shows that propofol had been given some time ago as it is diffused into this liquor the slowest, it is totally transparent and has no blood vessels at all.
    I mentioned earlier that propofol is metabolised in 3 stages with 3 different modes.
    The amounts found metabolised in the bladder give 88% of the total given. That was already so overwhelming that no further calculations were necessary. The blood level was same or corresponded to what is used in surgeries.
    V.W. sounds breezy and grandiouse,even her personal life, esp the affair,and how she acted points to that.
    And the propofol in the stomach that they initially created such fuss over amounted to about 1,one, grain of fine sugar in a 1kg package.They would have had to put poor Michael,about all of him, into a blender to get the very exact nr of mcg,s.And recall Murray wanted pigs to study propofol.So many crazy ideas fly around before a trial,esp. when murray is involved./ Maybe propofol in liver was accounted for. But really it would make no
    practical difference. ps I meant grain in the sense of small,not as a measure of weight.

    Like

  61. MagUK permalink
    April 14, 2013 9:07 pm

    You are doing a great job Helena.. No matter how we “add up the numbers” (for want of a better expression) the answer is the same inasmuch as the explanations/evidence given at the trial represent the truth.

    When people (such as Dr White. and now Ms Wass) try to change the truth, they tend to trip over themselves constantly trying to justify their theories, and creating questions that they can’t answer. .

    The truth is the truth and really can’t be changed. I remember watching all those professional witnesses explaining all the various aspects of Michael’s autopsy, and although my heart was breaking, from a medical point of view it was riveting.If only it had been a drama and not real life.

    Like

  62. April 14, 2013 7:58 pm

    Well guys, NOTHING had to be recalculated because the mistake turned out to be a pure typo, though I am terribly sorry for it. Initially it was made in the hurry of reporting Murray’s trial and this time I just repeated it. All posts for Murray’s trial will also have to be checked up now.

    In this post 25ml has been corrected into 25mg, but nothing changed in the essence of the matter. The 25mg and 50mg scenarios were discussed by Dr. Shafer exactly in the milligrams version – it is even written in his computer simulations.

    And the quantity of the amount Michael received while he was still alive (and his body was producing urine) was exactly the one mentioned in the post – 2062500 micrograms = 2062,5mg = 206ml of propofol (as 10mg = 1ml).

    The changes made in the post concerned some lidocaine matters and the 10ml (10cc) syringes. If Valerie Wass still adheres to the idea that Murray gave only 25mg (2.5ml) that night she will have to explain why Michael actually received the equivalent of 80 such injections and received it while he was alive too.

    Please excuse me again. The positive side of it is that we have at least learned the difference between milliliters and milligrams.

    The 25mg of propofol Wass is talking about is 2.5ml.

    Like

  63. April 14, 2013 6:03 pm

    I’ve checked up my own notes about it made a year and a half ago and found the following table provided by Dr. Shafer – 155,000 milligrams are equal to 15.5 liters = 15,500 milliliters.

    So 10 mg of propofol are equal to 1 ml of it. One bottle has 2000mg = 200ml:

    1937 milligrams are 193.7 milliliters, so the amount Murray was giving on a daily basis was approximately 200 ml (Dr. Shafer’s calculations):

    Now I will have to recalculate everything in the post and see what we come to.

    Like

  64. April 14, 2013 5:36 pm

    Guys, I’ve just deleted a comment about a 10cc syringe being equivalent to 10ml because the mistake I made about it earlier is not that important. I’ve made another mistake and was writing about 25mg as if they were 25ml. Dr. Shafer was talking about 25 milligrams of course!

    How much 25 milligrams are in milliliters or vice versa depends on the density of the substance. If the substance is dense one ML may be heavier than one MG.

    The general conclusions in the post will be the same of course (otherwise Murray would not have been found guilty) but those vials will have to be rechecked once again – whether they were in ML or MG.

    The system of converting MG into ML is complex:

    Instructions
    1
    Convert your milligrams into grams since this will make your calculations easier later. Do this by dividing your milligrams by 1,000 or by simply moving the decimal 3 places to the left. For example, 182 mg of titanium will become 0.182 g.

    2
    Determine the specific gravity of your substance by either consulting a table of specific gravities for various substances or by using the formula “specific gravity = density of substance / density of water”. Use 1,000 kg/m^3 as the density of water and use the density of the substance provided to you in the data you have or look it up in a scientific reference. Plug these values into the equation to determine your specific gravity. For example, the density of titanium is 4,507 kg/m^3 so take that divided by 1,000 kg/m^3 and you get a specific gravity of 4.507. Note that units are not necessary with specific gravity.

    3
    Put the mass and specific gravity data into the formula “volume = mass / specific gravity,” which will also look like “milliliters = grams / specific gravity” in terms of units. For example, using the data above, milliliters = 0.182 g / 4.507 = 0.04 mL. So, 182 milligrams of titanium is equal to 0.03 milliliters of titanium.

    http://www.ehow.com/how_6973088_calculate-milligrams-milliliter.html

    Sorry for the confusion. Physics is not my strongest point.

    Like

  65. April 14, 2013 2:00 pm

    BTW if there was a third person present who gave that huge extra shot of propofol it does not absolve Murray, on the contrary it makes him a co conspirator in murder.

    Like

  66. April 14, 2013 1:54 pm

    Lyn, my computer has been tricky of late,I cannot find the NBC interview where Murray speaks of things behind the curtain.

    Dr. Shafers testimony and his reference to the 2062.5mg of metabolosed propofol found in the full to capacity bladder of MJ at autopsy absolutely and clearly imply that MJ was given over 200mgs propofol that night. Then there is the additional bottle on the table with a somewhat less amount of metabolised propofol. When was that given..or does he save urine in bottles.

    There was a well controlled study in 2002 about this very fact, how the unmetabolised propofol in urine gives you the exact amout of propofol given. This does not account for the propofol slill in blood and other organs. Dr. Shafer’s staments absolutely confirmed that he had been given over 200 mgs.

    Naturally it does not speak to the fact of who gave them, except that it was not Michael. If it was people could give their own anestesia during surgeries. But Murray keeps num about that. Sort of a contradiction in terms..

    Murrays little songs are stupid and also nasty. Weird. Makes fun of his victim and the fatherless little boy. How much has he been a father to his numerous out of wedlock children.

    Like

  67. April 14, 2013 1:00 pm

    “I am in bed right now with a flu and my brain is working very slowly, but I could understand everything perfectly. I wonder why Wass makes such a fool of herself with her theories.”

    Susanne, I hope the spring sun will help you get over the flu in no time. As to the post I will probably add a couple of details to it. And let me also offer a theory why Wass is making such a fool of herself.

    The theory is fantastic but possible.

    In her Facebook account Wass wrote something like “the truth will blow peoples minds off” and that Murray suggests she writes a book about it. This made me think that she knows more that she is telling us. And since there are still some inexplicable facts in this strange story I keep thinking if and how it would be possible to connect all the conflicting facts together – Dr. Shafer’s perfect explanation, Wass’s strange “syringe story” and those inexplicable facts which still remained unanswered (someone else’s fingerprints on the saline bag, and the murmur of voices in the room, for example).

    And I think there might be a way to tie all this into one knot.

    Wass claims that there was nothing wrong with Michael while he was on a drip for two months (a disputable point but partially true as at least then he was alive) and that he died of a bolus shot of 25ml of propofol made that night. And she presents it to the world as if it was MJ.

    But Michael could not do it himself – he was under a drip and was unconscious.

    However someone else could do it.

    It is very easy to come up to the IV stand, shut off the propofol tubing line for a moment, disconnect it from the wire connector and shot a bolus of 25ml of propofol into it. Considering how much propofol was in Michael’s body at that moment already that bolus would for sure provoke an immediate breathing arrest.

    Then this person could reconnect the tubing once again and let propofol go on dripping. Dr. Shafer’s scenario fully applies here.

    This person could leave or could stay in the room (if he was there from the start of it) and pretend that he doesn’t know what happened. On the surface everything would be exactly the same – propofol is dripping, everything is quiet. If Murray was away doing his calls he himself would not know what had been done to MJ.

    However Murray could also be the person who did it. His girlfriend said on the phone that he was “not quite himself” when he talked to her.

    On the other hand he was extremely nervous when the paramedics arrived and was clearly in a state of a shock, so it could be something unexpected for him too.

    This is why it is so important to make sure that no one else entered the property that morning. And the testimony of the night guards and the video recordings is crucial. Unfortunately in both cases we have none – no testimony as these people were simply not asked and no records as they were erased by police.

    Therefore it is absolutely imperative that Murray speaks and says what he knows. It is in his interests first and foremost. If a third person is involved in this story there is no way Murray will survive when he leaves the jail.

    P.S. You will say that my imaginination is too vivid. Possibly it is, but I am simply trying to bring all those small details together. And I absolutely do not insist on this variant – it is only a theory which needs a thorough check-up by the respective authorities. Unfortunately it is highly unlikely that anyone will be looking into it.

    Like

  68. lynande51 permalink
    April 14, 2013 7:05 am

    I know very few Michael Jackson fans watched the Special on NBC that Murray did but you should watch it, you should see what he says behind the scenes about these other doctors like Dr. Steinberg and Dr. Shafer. You would not believe his arrogance. He says he could cross examine ALon Steinberg and slice him like a sword and he is gritting his teeth through the whole section. It was disgusting.

    Like

  69. lynande51 permalink
    April 14, 2013 6:56 am

    Here is my question how can AEG say that MJwas an addict and say that they had no way of knowing or at least suspecting what Murray was doing. You see that one card that they continue to try to play is going to work against them if they keep it up. I mean if they say they knew MJ had a history of drug use then they have to have known what Murray was doing right?

    Like

  70. April 14, 2013 4:48 am

    Conrads tale of timing needs to be checked against the timing of his phonecalls and textings.I will repeat.Texting and calling are among the 10 most serious mistakes of all mistakes doctors make.

    Like

  71. nannorris permalink
    April 14, 2013 2:56 am

    I just wonder how long MJ was dead , to have all that stuff still flowing into his body before Murray came back in the room, if he even left the room at all…He could have just been sitting right next to him , making his calls and ignoring MJ too..
    .I was watching TMZ live the other day and Harvey was saying that the Jackson case has no merit , because how would AEG know what Murray was doing.
    But then at other times he says it was very well known that MJ would do this stuff.
    So how could it be that AEG supposedly had no idea what Murray was giving him , that MJ would insist on this particular doctor, for a huge sum of money, and a supposedly healthy person is so confused and fragile at some of the rehearsals..
    If they thought Klien was the only shady doctor, what did they think all that money was going to be paid to Murray for., when MJ could have gotten a doctor over in England.
    They had to have known something was going on with Murray.

    Like

  72. nannorris permalink
    April 14, 2013 2:43 am


    In this video Flanagan tries to get DR Steinberg to say that MJ was already dead by the time the paramedics arrived, but the doctor is going by Murrays statement, and wont budge.
    Flanagan is basically saying Murray lied about how long he had been out of the room and that MJ was already dead when he found him.
    They tried every scenario possible, and Murray is stil guilty.
    Wass knows he is guilty too, but she is getting her name well known because of the connection to MJ
    She couldnt pay a million dollars to get, her name mentioned, in the same sentence as a lawyer as famous and admired, as Tom Mesereau unless somehow MJ was involved.
    She works out of her home and Starbucks and is doing this pro bono for the media attn.

    Like

  73. April 14, 2013 1:08 am

    Nina Hamilton re the toxicology,the amounts are given per ml or appr by cc.That is femoral blood 2.6mcg per ml, heartblood 3.3 mcg per ml.For the total amout you need to know the amount of blood. You can approximately asess the amount of blood from total body size.
    In a full autopsy most organs like liver,kidneys etc are weighed and from there you get the amount of ml calculated. I dont think this was separetely done on all tissues in Michaels case as the total amount in blood and the metabolised amont in the kidneys was so overwhelming. I would guess total amount of adult blood about 5 liters, that is 5000ml.
    Just about every organ had some propofol, even the liquor in the eyes.

    Like

  74. April 14, 2013 12:36 am

    I dont know what lawyers Valerie Wass will be up against. Really I dont know the procedure for an appeal in US. She would have 0 chance against the witnesses at the original Murray trial.—–I tend to agree with Nina Hamilton. But how to prove that. Those corporations have unlimited amounts of money, and unfortunately money speaks.
    There is Murrays consistent silence. He only sang that song for, the TV program. It probably was aimed at Michael..the little JW boy who did not get all he wanted from Santa. Gives you an idea of the vein he might be writing his book in, that is infantalising Michael. And if he gets the chance. The video he had his PR firm to do was to laugh at. Hmm, it was ok to make a video but he dares not open his mouth.

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  75. April 13, 2013 11:43 pm

    There are so many facts that just don’t feel right to me with all this. My gut feeling is that AEG Live, who employed Murray, were/are part of a bigger sinister picture. The CCTV tapes erased, the other unidentified fingerprints, Murray’s inexplicable criminal actions when he is supposed to be a doctor, the fact that he seems afraid to speak or attend the new trial,and him saying that if he did speak, it would blow the roof off, or something like that. Also my maths are not too brilliant; you say that Michael had 2.6mcg of Propofol in his blood, does that mean 266 ml or 26mg? Sorry. I’m suspicious, and confused.

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  76. April 13, 2013 9:59 pm

    Well done research, Helena. For anyone who followed the Conrad Murray trial, it was fairly clear that Michael was given Propofol and not monitored while Murray called his girlfriend(s) on his iPhone. It is also clear that Murray made 47 minutes of phone calls, after Michael was already dead instead of calling 911, and possibly being able to save his life. Does she think we’re a bunch of idiots? Even if Michael could or did self inject, which is impossible because you cannot self inject Propofol, 25 more mg would not have killed him. All his organs swimming in Propofol made it then and makes it clear now that Murray was reckless, unprofessional, unethical and walked away from Michael while Propofol was streaming into his bloodstream. Woss said “No, the two months that Dr. Murray administered propofol to Michael Jackson on a drip, Michael Jackson was fine. It was after he stopped administering the propofol drips that he died.” For your information, Propofol doesn’t induce real sleep and Michael wasn’t fine, Murray was actually slowly poisoning him, which is likely why one half of his body was hot and one was cold. Sorry, Valerie Woss, your client is guilty. Perhaps Murray should ask forgiveness from Michael’s family and fans instead of still maintaining his lies. We’re not dummies.

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  77. Susannerb permalink*
    April 13, 2013 9:22 pm

    Thanks, Helena, you brilliantly explained everything again in a very compehensible way for laypersons. I am in bed right now with a flu and my brain is working very slowly, but I could understand everything perfectly.
    I wonder why Wass makes such a fool of herself with her theories. Is it just stupidity or is her main goal for a reason to influence the public (or potential jurors) she probably thinks don’t know or remember anything of the facts? Scientific experts must laugh at her. I mean, is it “political say” or is she simply foolish? I always think people cannot be that stupid, there must be another reason when they expose themselves to such ludicrousness.

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  78. April 13, 2013 8:54 pm

    “I can not understand how she can hope for anything with these arguments.” – kaarin

    She hopes that everyone has forgotten the details of the trial and is simply trying to make as much noise as possible. Her appeal will most probably go nowhere but she is working for effect only and hopes to shatter public opionion in favor of Murray by creating the impression that it was the jury’s mistake and that some evidence was “overlooked”.

    What surprises me is that despite the overwhelming evidence against Murray Valerie Wass is given so much chance to present her wrong views on TV. I don’t remember reading any materials about Michael Jackson’s appeal against Diane Dimond and this matter being discussed at all. So not all appeals are treated equally and this one is given much preference. It is disgusting, depressing but is also helpful in clearing us of any illusion.

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  79. April 13, 2013 8:39 pm

    Hi Helena,

    I think you should bring this analysis to the attention of the lawyers representing the Jackson Family, as I believe it would be quite helpful for this case against AEG. You explained everything so that even people not in the medical field (me) can understand. Thank you. And even though people may try to disprove your theory about the amount of propofol used, they still can’t disprove the fact that MJ’s fingerprints were no where to be found.

    Like

  80. April 13, 2013 8:19 pm

    Kay, your idea does not hold up to common sense,even less to science. Propofol does not metabolise after death. True,Michael may have been clinically dead at the time the ambulance arrived just after midday. He was given artificial ventilation and his heart was artificially, electrically stimulated in the hospital. At autopsy there were definite findings of propofol metabolism.Had a dead corpse been infused these would not be there. The metabolism had occurred while he still had some blood ciculation, but it stopped when his heart stopped.I would guess some time am on June 25 th.

    ofol does not

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  81. kay permalink
    April 13, 2013 5:32 pm

    Why don’t they just tell the truth the man was almost dead when ambulance brought him to Carolwood and when he died someone gave him propofol to look like cause of death Then murray started calling for help Michael is alive the man that die was a dying man from a hospic center there were 2 ambulances there 1 broght the dying man to carolwood and no. 2 carried him to Ucla

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  82. April 13, 2013 4:41 pm

    Michael must have weighed at leat 50 kgs. So how can he,unbelivably by himself, have injected up to 50 mgs of propofol.And how can the simplest of math explain the amounts found in the different organs. Never mind the really scientific explanations very clear set out in the trial against Murray in 2011.It is worth taking a look at them.
    Sorry for the fist post,something went wrong there.

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  83. April 13, 2013 4:23 pm

    Valerie Was.s appeal tells us about her ignorance of biology, science,and moore.Lets just for the sake of argument take her statement that Michael got loaded with 25 mgsplus another 25 mgs that he unbelievably

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  84. MagUK permalink
    April 13, 2013 4:22 pm

    My husband and I watched every minute of the Murray trial live ( we live in the UK so it was transmitted early evening for us). He (much less emotional about the whole thing than me) watched it purely on a factual basis, and was completely and easily convinced by the professional witnesses for the prosecution, who presented their evidence in a way that was easy to understand with no room for doubt.(whilst those for the defence seemed generally confused)

    The sad thing about this appeal , and what worries me,..is that the media will still find Michael responsible for his own death, especially with the AEG lawsuit going on..It will be 2005 all over again I fear, no matter how implausible the appeal arguments are.

    No matter how “innocent” Michael is, and proved to be, he is always the one to be branded guilty.Sometimes I wonder how he managed to get out of bed in the mornings

    Thankyou for explaining things clearly.. and had I not seen the trial, I would still have been able to understand what happened from your explanations.

    Like

  85. April 13, 2013 1:07 pm

    I can not understand how she can hope for anything with these arguments.She makes up new theories from of her own mind never heard of in science.-There is little point in even showing her the grave misunderstandings in her theory,it is so far out of touch with scientific reality.

    Like

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