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JACKSON lawsuit against AEG and the FUTURE in the hands of Michael Jackson’s FANS

April 29, 2013

Recently I went to the MJJ Community forum to find out the latest news about the trial. What I found there surpassed anything I could ever imagine – those active in the thread about the AEG trial were pouring hate and spite on the heads of Katherine Jackson and her family without having a single word of reproach for AEG.

The pretext was a plausible one – they don’t want the media to trash Michael Jackson’s good name, however to do so they are ready to let go of the company which actually brought about Michael’s death.

HIS DEATH and CHARACTER ASSASSINATION

In their opinion the company is not to blame (“it is business, you know”) and the one who is to blame is the man’s own mother who lost her son and wants some justice and legitimate questions answered (“she is an enemy and her family sucks”).

They cannot wait to see Katherine on the stand to see her “web of lies exposed” and hope that AEG is “doing their homework well”. In fact losing the case to AEG is the outcome many are even hoping for.  They advise AEG on how to form their strategy and reduce the amount of money for this greedy woman in case of the catastrophe of her winning the case:

AEG’s strategy should be to go after her and her real motivations for filing this lawsuit.

By showing her contradictions and lies to the jurors, AEG might be able to reduce the amount of money (in case AEG loses) jurors are willing to award Katherine. If AEG shows the lies, contradictions, Katherine’s own responsibility to MJ, her greediness for money will portray her in bad light, so I think it might help AEG reduce the amount she’ll be awarded if any, at least I hope so.

Do these people know what they doing? 

Most of them do not. They were brainwashed by AEG’s propaganda into thinking that poor AEG “has to” drown Michael Jackson in order to defend itself and it will be solely Michael’s mother who will be to blame for it.

AEG's attorney Marvin Putnam: "We're talking about Michael Jackson," Putnam said. "This is a man who would show up in pajamas. This is a man who would stop traffic and get out and dance on top of his car. This is a man who would go to public events with a monkey named Bubbles. This is a man who said he slept in an oxygen chamber." "I don't know how you can't look to Mr. Jackson's responsibility there,"

AEG’s attorney Marvin Putnam:                             “We’re talking about Michael Jackson,” Putnam said. “This is a man who would show up in pajamas. This is a man who would stop traffic and get out and dance on top of his car. This is a man who would go to public events with a monkey named Bubbles. This is a man who said he slept in an oxygen chamber.”
“I don’t know how you can’t look to Mr. Jackson’s responsibility there”

However assassinating the son in order to defend oneself from his parents’ accusations is absolutely not a necessity. And character assassination of Michael Jackson is what AEG is actually doing.

Shifting all the blame onto Michael’s mother is top hypocrisy and the most shameless deceit.  If character assassination of Michael Jackson is the only argument AEG can present to the jury to explain their negligence towards him it means that there is nothing else they have to say in their defense.

Some fans advise Katherine Jackson, “stay quiet, know your place, take it as it is, the estate is paying you money so what else do you want?” And the loudest call for punishing Michael’s mother, want her to get what she “deserves” and are ready to be at full service of AEG’s lawyers to drown in mud both this woman and her “deadbeat cubs” whom they detest and despise.

And all this in the name of preserving Michael Jackson’s legacy.

What disgusting hypocrisy and disgusting way of thinking of those who call themselves “fans” of Michael Jackson.

These people think and impose on others the idea that it is all about money and pretend not to know that there might be other concepts like “justice”, “dignity”, “loss”, “pain” and other similar motives which may be driving other people in their search for the truth – Katherine Jackson, for example.

It is indeed deplorable that due to some circumstances Katherine is unable to have her case handled by the criminal court – filing criminal charges against AEG is not her prerogative and all attempts in this respect have evidently failed. It is also very unfortunate that her civil suit against the company was stripped of its many crucial points. It is equally sad that a much more substantiated Joe Jackson’s suit in its amended version was dismissed for a reason that two members of the family cannot sue one company and that Katherine’s suit was chosen over Joe’s as hers came prior to Joe’s.

Now the whole AEG case is hanging on one thread only – that of AEG negligently hiring Murray. And it isn’t Katherine’s  fault that everything else was dismissed – it is her tragedy that the legal system closed its eyes on many of the key matters and dismissed the charges which could have been of real significance to the case.

Living where I live makes me perfectly aware of how difficult it is to fight the system which nips in the bud every single voice of dissent. So I can imagine how difficult it is to beat a multi-billion corporation which has numerous ways of influencing decisions in a place where they are also seen by many as a local tzar.

MJ05Only one little hope has been left now and this hope is that at least through their contract with Murray the AEG corporation will answer for driving Michael Jackson to death by their “business” which boiled down to making maximal profit on Michael’s name, humiliating him by ignoring his requests and decisions, and taking advantage of him and his genius.

THE JURY

Who will be to blame if Katherine loses? AEG’s propaganda machine of course because the jury are human beings too and may also be brainwashed by AEG’s daily character assassination of Michael Jackson. They do not live in a vacuum and are also susceptible to public opinion which is a process they may be totally unaware of .

The more the public and the media tell them horror stories about Michael and the more Michael’s “fans” trash his mother for her claims against AEG, the less they will be inclined to sympathize with Michael himself and his bereaved mother.

So when the MJJ Community “Senior Staff” was telling me that the jury will be guided by the truth of the matter only and what people say in their forum is in no way influencing public opinion it was a very big lie and an utterly hypocritical statement.

In fact what is more or less forgivable for ordinary fans who have lost their way in the jungles of AEG and media propaganda is not forgivable for the forum Senior Staff who are big professionals and are therefore perfectly aware that their alleged unbiased approach and their quiet nod to the incessant dirt against Katherine on the forum pages is creating a big slant in favor of AEG, which this corporation will undoubtedly appreciate.

SENIOR STAFF

Katherine and children at the funeralDisbelieving the picture of ruthless Katherine’s harassment I saw on the AEG thread of the MJJ Community forum I finally expressed my astonishment why some fans were advising AEG lawyers how to form their strategy against Katherine and wondered whether they understood what they were doing.

You won’t believe the effect this small remark produced on the Senior Staff maintaining this forum. They dropped everything they were doing and handled my humble persona only.

They behaved as if it was totally unnatural for a Michael Jackson supporter to say a word of support for Michael’s mother and say a word of truth against AEG. When everyone was trashing Katherine it was perfectly okay for the Senior Staff to keep silent, but when I raised my voice against AEG I was immediately restrained not to violate the “innocent until proven” formula.

AEG is innocent to these people while Katherine Jackson is evidently already guilty like hell.

What it means is that in a fan forum which by definition should be biased in favor of Michael’s opinion everything is happening exactly the opposite way – support of AEG is encouraged and protected from stray people like me, but Michael’s own views about AEG are disregarded and trashing his mother gets no objection as “humans are not ideal”, you know.

Of course it is in the power of the Senior Staff admins to correct human nature a bit, however they refrain themselves from this task.

The opinion of Senior Staff is actively supported by other proud members of the community (“proud” in terms of regalia and status) and this means that even four years after Michael’s death the forum is so masterfully maintained that up till now its ordinary members do not realize what horrible harm AEG did to Michael Jackson and that it was actually them who contributed to his death.

In fact even Michael’s own words about what AEG did to him are no guidance for these people:

I’m really angry with them booking me up to do 50 shows. I only wanted to do 10, and take the tour around the world to other cities, not 50 in one place. I went to bed knowing I sold 10 dates, and woke up to the news I was booked to do 50.”

Neglecting Michael’s wishes and ignoring his opinion was actually typical of AEG‘s attitude towards Michael but is generally untypical of Michael’s fans. However if you remind these fans of all the “good” AEG did to Michael they will defiantly reply that they are not to be told what to think, even if you are expressing your opinion only and never use the word “should”.

The “innocent until proven guilty” formula itself is perfectly correct, even in application to AEG Live, only the Senior Staff does not explain why in order to implement this formula it is indispensable to drag through the mud the other side of the dispute and why a simple balance of forces is not being maintained there – Michael’s mother and family may be freely trashed, ridiculed and stigmatized while a single voice elaborating on the legitimate claims against AEG should be almost immediately silenced.

MJ and Katherine exit courtroomThis is equivalent to allowing on TV only Michael Jackson’s detractors and denying any chance to his supporters before the 2005 trial, only in the reverse variant of course, as the party to defend itself this time is AEG Live.

And yes, the only person telling the truth about AEG was silenced there – they blocked me as they simply could not tolerate my voice against AEG for more than two days running and my questions were regarded by them as an unbearable insult to their morality.

“IT WAS ONLY BUSINESS”

The people in the forum do not have any claims to AEG as they regard it as “only business”. In their opinion AEG could demand anything of Michael in the same way an employer demands discipline at their workplace.

However for some reason their efficient Senior Staff failed to explain them that Michael was not in AEG’s employment – he was AEG’s partner who was also supposed to pay full production costs and was guaranteeing the show by the duty to repay all $40 million back in case something went wrong.

A partner is no employee. The most that can be expected of a partner is fulfillment of his obligations under the contract and nothing else than that. And Michael’s obligation was to do only a first-class show and not a rehearsal. If they considered his performance second class they could complain, but not before that.

So it was solely Michael’s business how to get ready for the tour and AEG could not demand anything of him, let alone set him conditions, read riot acts and declare tough love threatening to “pull the plug” if he did not oblige.

In short even though AEG behaved like masters towards Michael Jackson he was not in their employment. In contrast to that Conrad Murray was to report to AEG as he was to perform their services as “requested”, and they were to make sure he did nothing else but what was expected of him. However exactly this AEG failed to do. Instead they monitored Michael Jackson though in his case they had no right to.

In short both contracts were twisted and adjusted to their immediate needs – where they were obliged to interfere they did not, and where they had no right to interfere they did.

The Jacksons' attorney Brian Panish: "There was no risk to AEG, since the production of the tour would be secured by MJ's assets, which included the Sony catalog" (ABC7 Court News tweet)

The Jacksons’ attorney Brian Panish:               “There was no risk to AEG, since the production of the tour would be secured by MJ’s assets, which included the Sony catalog” (ABC7 Court News tweet)

Michael’s word could be trusted because he himself was fully answering for the shows by all his assets. Yes, by ALL of them because if Michael did not repay the first $40 million back in case of a cancellation AEG was to sue him for loss of profit and 50 vacant dates. The latter sum would be some $100 million even by the lowest estimate on the basis of the average face value tickets of $80-$100 per seat in a 20,000 seat O2Arena and the number of shows being 50.

Michael’s own and his children’s well-being were the best guarantee that he would perform – so all talk by the media and AEG about the possibility of his “freaking out” was malicious speculation which actually betrayed their innermost hopes – they themselves were most interested in cancellations and hoped to implement this variant at the first opportunity that presented itself.

And while they were actually dragging their feet Michael was already rehearsing “his ass off” at home and in the studios without the crew yet joining him. Some sources say that he began training as early as March 2009. And if Michael preferred individual rehearsals to public ones I can perfectly understand him too – being a perfectionist and shy after 12 years of non-performing Michael wanted to show himself to the public at his best, when he was absolutely sure of his skills or felt well enough to perform.

The owner of CenterStaging in Burbank says Michael started working in March 2009 (while AEG as you remember hired Ortega and dancers only in May):

“He was trying, and succeeding, in structuring the biggest, most spectacular live production ever seen,” said Johnny Caswell, co-owner of CenterStaging in Burbank, California, where Jackson worked on the show from late March to early June before shifting rehearsals to larger venues, according to the paper. “By the time he left my facility, he had graduated through several studios and was on a soundstage taking up 10,000 square feet,” Caswell said. http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1614882/michael-jacksons-last-tour-rehearsal-details-revealed.jhtml

Michael had to both build his stamina and spare his energy for the shows, and his individual plan of getting ready for them was not to be disputed. No one could know better than him when he was ready and no one should have imposed any conditions on him in this respect. His refreshed skills were demonstrated in their full brilliance at the last two rehearsals and even if Michael was ready to or wanted to perform full scale only on the days of his choice his desire should have been fully respected.

His schedule was his individual business which he alone was structuring for himself and absolutely no one was allowed to encroach on its secret formula. The most they could ask of him was attending the rehearsals for making decisions over some production issues as he was also a co-director of the show (yes he was, though you would have never guessed it by the way they treated him), but as to the dancing and singing he could have perfectly watched everything off stage. Twisting Michael’s arms and setting him conditions wasn’t “business” – it was encroaching on his most fundamental rights.

I repeat – under their own contract Michael’s sole obligation was to do a first class show and not a rehearsal, and all claims to Michael could have been made only after the first show. AEG would not have lost anything this way as the ultimate responsibility for the shows was still lying on Michael’s shoulders.

However simple explanations like the above are for some reason regarded by the Senior Staff of the fan forum as unacceptable. You are either accused of hypocrisy (for criticizing others for criticizing Katherine but allowing oneself to criticize AEG) or will be instructed not to digress and keep to the lawsuit on Murray and AEG which is the current topic.

However when you did speak on the current topic and mentioned that Murray spent half the night exchanging emails with insurers and this was done following AEG’s requests, this was not approved either. You can never please the Senior Staff of the forum as absolutely nothing of what you say is suiting these people.

TWO INSURANCES, TWO DOCUMENTS

Under his contract with AEG Murray was supposed to perform only the services requested by the Producer. This explained in whose employment Murray was and whose instructions he was really following. Kathy Jorrie mentioned at Murray’s trial that Murray wanted to perform services for Michael Jackson, but the final contract still stuck to the Producer variant preferred by AEG.

So when at the end of June Kathy Jorrie, AEG’s lawyer asked Murray to take care of Michael’s medical records, Murray obliged and took care of it not paying attention to his patient. This absolutely does NOT absolve him of his guilt as under NO circumstances he was to leave his patient, but the fact still remains that Murray did spend half the night when Michael Jackson died running on errands from AEG.

The discussion over the reasons why AEG needed a second medical examination was the most heated discussion I had with the Senior Staff which made me wonder why my views over this issue were so vehemently opposed.

The Senior Staff explained that this was Lloyds’s condition from the very beginning of the deal, and I said that it was not. We are talking about two different documents – the first insurance had been ready by the London news-conference in March already. It covered the first 10 shows and according to Randy Phillips himself was firmly in their pocket (which means that no addition physical examination was required).

And the second insurance policy replacing the first was made in April and had to be arranged due to AEG increasing the shows. The Insurance Journal explained when this policy was signed:

By Anthony McCartney | June 7, 2011

Underwriters at Lloyd’s of London sued AEG Live and Jackson’s company, claiming the concert promoter has failed to provide necessary medical information and details about the physician charged with the singer’s death.
The suit states Lloyd’s issued a non-appearance and concert cancellation policy in April 2009  roughly two months before the pop superstar died.
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news…/07/201668.htm

The second insurance was half-obtained for 30 dates only and had several new conditions set by the insurers – like medical records, a new medical examination and doctors attending the rehearsals, and it was this new AEG’s policy which Murray was so unsuccessfully attending to in the night of Michael’s death.

The Senior Staff sneered that I doubted the veracity of Lloyd’s documents, and I said that I didn’t – they simply presented the final variant of the insurance policy as there was no need to present the first, however only two consecutive insurance polices can explain why already in March Randy Phillips was talking of the insurance as a fully decided matter and later one some half-finished document suddenly appeared.

If 10 dates were later corrected and turned into 30 where can I see the corrections please in the final document presented by Lloyd’s?  And since there are none, it is clear that the final policy is a separate document. The first one was probably cancelled as too many terms had to be changed, and this first insurance policy we have never seen.

And if they had not increased the shows there would have been no need of the new insurance, and Murray would not have been running with the papers on the night Michael died.

In addition to the above the first insurance policy also proves that Michael agreed only to 10 shows, however at this stage the Senior Staff was already warning me that I do not listen to what I am being told and it was evidently then that my future on their fan forum was already decided.

The Senior Staff told me that increase or no increase it was unimportant anyway. I disagreed. The number is extremely important as firstly, 50 shows were decided without Michael knowledge and this testifies to how neglectful of Michael’s opinion AEG was, and secondly, it sent Michael into a tremendous stress immediately after that London press conference as a result of which he lost all sleep.

It was due to this terrible stress-factor that he could no longer sleep naturally and required Propofol. If there had been no increase and no stress Michael might have gone without it at all.

This was met with a point blank question from Senior Staff how I can explain that Michael always used Propofol (why are they so sure of it I wonder?) and why Michael took drugs before the show described by Cascio.

By then it looked like a full-time interrogation either on a Topix forum or in the courtroom presided by the Senior AEG Staff,  but I nevertheless answered – if Michael went for a rehab in 1993 for Demerol it does not necessarily mean that he used it in 2009 (no traces of it were found in his body), and the situation with Propofol is the same.

If Michael did use Propofol some time before it does not mean that in this particular case he would have done it too. When in Ireland he did not use it, when in Las Vegas he did not use it, and if in London he had had a comfortable schedule of 2 shows a week at the most there was a chance of him going without it either (or using it for emergency only).

ALL THEY WERE TO DO WAS DO AS HE REQUESTED

In fact this is the essence of my main claim to AEG. All they had to do was listen to Michael and do as he requested. Tohme and Gongaware knew of Michael’s insomnia full well (who didn’t?) however they intentionally ignored his wishes and set the impossible regimen of the shows for every other day.

The regimen sent Michael into a shock and it was then that his huge stress started. It lasted for full four months until his dying day. Witnesses say that after realizing how grueling the schedule was Michael fell into a panic and it was this pressure that killed him:

Pressure of 50-concerts killed Michael Jackson, says his old pal

“He thought there were going to be ten dates as announced. But then all of a sudden Tohme, along with Randy Phillips, president of organisers AEG, had arranged 20, 30 then 50 dates. But when Michael realised his schedule, he began to panic. It was one show after another, with hardly any days off.  He should never have been tied to so many, especially a guy who dances through more than half of his set,” he added. (ANI)  http://entertainment.gaeatimes.com/2…old-pal-12427/

You won’t believe it but the way AEG fully ignored Michael’s wishes did not produce any impression on any of the people in this fan forum courtroom.  Some said  “nevermind” to the number and regimen of the shows,  some said that the claims of the show/day-off pattern were false but they did not care anyway, and some said that 50 shows were for 9 months, evidently implying that the average number was 5-6 dates per month.

This reminded me of Randy Phillips’ formula that “on the average” it was a very comfortable schedule which was probably the way it was presented to Michael Jackson too, only the “average” numbers do not mean anything and are terribly misleading – the number of shows the fifty-year old Jackson was to perform following a show/day-off/show/day-off regimen was actually 38 as this schedule shows:

First they set 10 dates, then added 16 more. The show/day-off dates are in bold type except those which come after a period longer than 1 day. If you add up all the dates with only one-day rest between the shows you will have 38 such dates:

July 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30
August 1, 3, 10, 12, 17, 19, 24, 26, 28, 30
September 1, 3, 6, 8, 10.

Then 24 shows were added:

September – 21, 23, 27, 29
January 7, 9, 12, 14, 16, 18, 23, 25, 27, 29
February 1, 3, 8, 10, 12, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24

At this point the Senior Staff was already seriously annoyed by me and said it was time to return to the main topic. I said I thought it was exactly the main topic.

AEG ignored Michael’s most fundamental request – all he wanted was enough time for sleep between the shows, however they created a schedule which for a man with his insomnia was simply impossible to implement.

In short if there had been no stress about the future he would have not asked for Propofol already then, at the stage of rehearsals, and nothing would have happened on June 25.

Michael’s death was predetermined at the time when AEG and Tohme were ruthlessly setting the schedule the way they liked best, totally disregarding Michael’s insomnia problems.

And what is especially abhorrent is that they did it intentionally as both knew of Michael’s troubles, worries and requests.

And if the Senior Staff of the fan forum does not care about it, it does not mean that Michael’s mother does not – she does care and very much so. Since AEG Live drove Michael Jackson into that stress INTENTIONALLY she wants them to answer for it – in this or that way, even if it is only money which is at stake  (which is probably the only language AEG Live is able to understand).

If these “fans” were bothered about the way AEG treated Michael Jackson they would also care about those dates, however they are evidently only paying lip service to him and all their worries about Michael’s tarnished image are mere pretence on their part. I expressed this idea to the Senior Staff but by then yours truly was already blocked.

What they are doing there now I don’t know – most probably they go on trashing Katherine for her audacity to sue AEG. They are surely standing on the guard of AEG’s innocence and are evidently still of the opinion that Michael’s mother is the only person who ever sued.

The Senior Staff does not approve of suing in general and to tell you the truth I don’t either. However in the absence of a possibility to put AEG behind bars the civil suit is okay too.

THE FUTURE

The jurors are also human beings. The more AEG propaganda they hear the more of it they will absorb. And tomorrow this propaganda will be blasting from every cannon possible – from the press, TV and commentators like Diane Dimond. This cannonade will unfortunately not bypass the jurors. In the courtroom they will also be subjected to a barrage of tabloid horror stories told to them by AEG thus turning the trial into a freakish show.

Will it be Katherine’s guilt? Absolutely not. The media reaction is nothing of Katherine’s doing and is solely done by those who harassed her son for many years and the powerful corporation which contributed to Michael’s death and used him for their own greedy ends.

Do fans have the right to drag Michael’s through the mud and tell her to shut up? And can you tell a parent of an assassinated child to keep quiet and don’t bother the assassins for fear that “it will be worse”? WHAT can be worse for a mother than losing her son? I hope none of us will ever know the horror of it.

The huge propaganda machine currently working against Michael’s mother, family and children can be counter-balanced only by Michael’s fans.  However now the fans are busying themselves with something else – hate towards Michael Jackson’s mother and his family. And what may the jurors think if they see Michael’s own fans trashing the family and siding with AEG?

Could the poison spread by those forums turn into that last touch necessary for the jury to take a decision favorable for AEG ? This outcome is very much possible and those who guide the fans in their choices are evidently relying on it very much indeed despite the neutrality they officially profess.

I am not asking the fans to support Katherine if they are still in doubt. All I am speaking of is being at least neutral, refraining from working for the big anti-Jackson propaganda machine, giving Katherine an equal chance and letting the jurors decide on their own.

If Katherine Jackson loses,  Michael Jackson’s image will be tarnished and AEG will happily resume their usual practices with a double force. Now they will know that if they could do it to Michael Jackson they will be able to do it to everyone else.

If Katherine Jackson wins, Michael’s image may be tarnished but the offenders who turned the last four months of his life into sheer misery will have to pay. They will be taught a lesson and will now think twice before making profits on other people’s tears, misery and humiliation. Winning from AEG will probably restrain even some tabloids which will be reluctant now to undergo the same procedure as AEG.

The outcome of this case depends on Michael’s fans to a big extent. Their influence on public opinion now has become so big that it is impossible not to notice it or disregard. And jurors are the same people like us who are also affected by public opinion whether they notice it or not.

Fans should decide for themselves whether corporations like AEG Live will go on with their inhuman policies towards artists and take advantage of people’s vulnerability like they did it with Jackson. Or whether the corporations should give up their bullying ways and develop an ethical approach to people Michael represented and whose future saddened him very much.

Michael reflected on the fate of other artists and said he did not want to end up like James Brown or Jackie Wilson:

“Not the way James Brown or Jackie Wilson did, where they just killed themselves. I wish James Brown could have slowed down and been more relaxed and enjoyed his hard work.”

Whether Michael Jackson really becomes one of these people or whether he wins over the corporation even in his death  may very well depend on the choice of his fans. And this is why Michael’s fans are so closely monitored, guided and kept an eye on – it is their choice which may determine the future now.

It is you who decide.

129 Comments leave one →
  1. August 8, 2014 2:27 pm

    ——————– Thank you Anon for the the lack of words, you
    being appalled at the outcome of the AEG trial.And thank you Helena for the article of April 29.2013.That trial was was aberrant to say the least. First the judge amputated the trial and left out Randy Phillips and Paul Gongaware (why?),nobody was allowed to ask that question. Then questions given the jury further confuse the situation, especially question nr 2.And it is clear from the aftermath of the trial that the jury was confused. 4 jurors write letters expressing their regret for answering wrong,ie NO, and soon thereafter 7 jurors write identical signed letters that they indeed meant No as answer to question nr 2.ie that Murray was competent for the job he was hired for.In Helena´s words it sent shivers round the world that a GP is not expected to be ethical.Never heard such nonsense before.There is something wrong with this trial that has not given my mind piece.There has been some discussion ,but not enough.I know that law and moral are not the same. But how far apart can they drift? I truly hope this trial will be analysed again and more carefully.And Mrs Katherine Jackson did right when suing AEG over her son´s death. and a ps: There was also a mystery juror 27 who started writing after the trial.

    .

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  2. Anon permalink
    August 7, 2014 1:50 pm

    I’m revisiting this article because after being away for a long while (years), I too have seen the mud slinging going on in the fan community and – after catching up on everything – was very shocked at how much mud slinging there has been, and how alarmingly deep rooted it is. I understand if people didn’t agree with this lawsuit but I’m just baffled at how the facts being brought into this case does not alarm these fans AT ALL. Like at all. As if AEG was completely in the right, and I’m just…really at a loss for words. Appalled, really.

    Not to mention the ‘he was a grown man’ argument…its like repeated constantly. And to me it is the most cold, incompassionate thing I’ve ever heard repeated in the fan community. I mean, why didn’t they say that in the 93 and 03 cases? “He was a grown man, he shouldn’t have let those kids manipulate him like that”…so therefore the kids should have thrown him in jail for something he didn’t do? Or with Sony, “he’s a grown man, he shouldn’t have signed with sony so he should have had his album sabotaged” Or with the media, “he’s a grown man and he’s a celebrity, so he should accept the lies the media feeds – its a free country and not against the law” No, none of that makes sense, obviously, and yet they use that same argument here.

    And even if people don’t think AEG is liable for his death, surely they should be outraged by AEG’s treatment of MJ as a HUMAN BEING? As an artist who has been in the business for 50 years and should have had MUCH more respect than he got? That alone should have had fans in an outrage and NOT throwing stones wildly at Katherine! And yes I understand being wary of the Jacksons based on their past history, but if we REALLY want to fight for MJ, and we REALLY want to honor what he would have wanted, I doubt he would have been like “ATTACK MY MOTHER!” lol Hell, I doubt he would have been like “ATTACK MY ENTIRE FAMILY!” too, despite his own grievances and disputes with them, he still loved his family and would not want his fans throwing mud at them, almost blindly – not knowing what is going on behind the scenes. It makes no sense whatsoever. Based on everything MJ said coming from his own lips, he regarded Katherine as the ONE person in that whole family that he could confide in. Why are we going against that? I don’t get it.

    But even THAT aside, I just don’t understand what happened to the respect in the MJ community. Even if you disagree, lets love each other and stand by the fact that we all want what is best for MJ’s legacy and his kids. But that is completely lost. Instead people are reduced to throwing insults every chance they get and holding the ‘either you’re with us or against us’ mentality that is extremely TOXIC.

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  3. September 12, 2013 3:11 pm

    I LOVE MY FAMILY JACKSON SOOO MUCH AND HELENA THANK YOU SO MUCH 4 THE TRUTH ABOUT MJ HE IS SITTING ON HIS CLOUD BEING SO VERRY PROUD OF YOU KEEP UP THE GOED WORK!…..<3❤❤ YOU MORE

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  4. August 30, 2013 5:00 pm

    “BOTH are guilty-from MORAL point of view I not sure regarding legal point of view I am not lawyer and dont know well american laws but form MORAL point of view all of them-both family and the corporation are guilty in using this wonderful human being,outstaing artist. AS i SEE article is written at april hope after Randy Jacson and Katherine herself testimonies-the bolg author will stop to idealize them ” -Natalia

    Natalia, first of all I am absolutely not idealizing anyone and second, for Katherine I have infinite respect, love and gratitude for being what she is and raising a son like Michael. And her testimony proved to me that she is a woman of exceptional qualities.

    The third point is that it is a terrible fallacy to call “all of them guilty” because when all are guilty none of them are.

    But even if “all are guilty” the degree of their guilt is totally incomparable. One cared very much but is guilty that he chose inadequate ways of helping his brother (Randy Jackson), while AEG didn’t care at all and refused to give help even when they saw MJ dying. Their insurance for $17,5 mln was much more precious to them than the life of Michael Jackson.

    The difference between them is the same as between someone who tries very hard to save a dying man but makes mistakes because he doesn’t know how to help, and the one who sees a dying man but steps on his chest, walks over his body and goes on his way. In both cases the man died but the guilt of these people is incomparable.

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  5. August 30, 2013 2:07 pm

    “If you are fanatic so please stay in bliss of STILL believeing in saint Katherine and saint Jackosn family-I rather prefer facts and facts say againt them!” – Nataliya

    Nataliya, since “facts about the family” make you so furious, I wonder how you feel about AEG?

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  6. August 28, 2013 12:24 pm

    girls :Sina and Trinity(I hope your real name is not TAAJ MALIK because your style sounds familiar lol)- common!I knew die hard Jackson family fans who were blind and even justified Joe for violence etc but even they regain their eye sight back after what happned last summer,after Michael’s orphans were offended by this crazy family,this ridiculous granny kidnapping stunt! If you are fanatic so please stay in bliss of STILL believeing in saint Katherine and saint Jackosn family-I rather prefer facts and facts say againt them! and where I was lol-I was in my country,far from USA I am not fanatic not follower fan who stalked MJ all the time I have my life and respect privacy of him or any other artist -and even those”followers’ girls tried to warn him and his team about his AWFUL condition but it was too late and it karen FAKE who told them to shut up-I saw myself their conversations at FB before and after 25 June and saw those emails and letters they sent so I know what I talking about! And everyone who have sane mind know how hard is to work from age of five-professional ballet dancers go to pension at age of 35 and MJ had autoimmune illnesses whih made his condition worse plus sleep problems so I still dont know WHY he agreed to this fatal tour.And if his mother dear brother REALLY craed they would tried to force him to tour with them too!

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  7. August 27, 2013 7:03 pm

    @Natalia And I would like to add, that for any mother, I am sure that if she had to choose between going back to 2300 Jackson street and living paycheck to paycheck and have Michael with her today, she would gladly do that in a heartbeat! I doubt money makes any difference at this point, she never looked comfortable with having money anyway. She just wanted her kids to experience the world and all their possibilities and talent. Any mother would…. we all have regrets, but to say she was only after her son’s money is ridiculous. She never had money as her core value, so why would she do so now. She is already blaming herself for not trying to do more I am sure, but she certainly doesn’t need judgement from complete strangers. Nobody would want that…. “Treat others as you would like to be treated”.

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  8. Sina permalink
    August 27, 2013 6:52 pm

    @ Natalia
    If you had informed yourself you would have known that the first thing his mother did was to question the schedule and the number of the shows. As did Karen Faye.
    Btw if you had informed yourself more you would know that he never distanced himself from his mother as you will have noticed who he left his children with and if you were even beter informed you would also know that a judge confirmed more than once she was the best guardian for them.
    If his father has had acces to him as the AEG bullies freely had, he might still be here .
    You may also have noticed that the worst things that happened to Michael and still happens posthumously -re Wade Robson- is because of these so called other families.
    With your moral highground and judgement of others , where were you when he was deteriorating?
    It is not wise to blindly judge either and its immoral to make your own truth.

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  9. Alison Maleski permalink
    August 27, 2013 4:03 pm

    Totally and completely agree with you about Michael.

    Like

  10. August 27, 2013 3:52 pm

    It is not wise to take sides blindly,truth is objective and neutral! BOTH are guilty-from MORAL point of view I not sure regarding legal point of view I am not laweyer and dont know well american laws but form MORAL point of view all of them-both family and the corporation are guilty in using this wonderful human being,outstaing artist and humanitarian-using him as just money making machine ,seeing him just as milking cow for them,thinking of him as of some robot who can work no matter what heal;th problme he may has etc.And of cause family and especially mother must know better -their brother/son ,back then at 2009 they weren’t that concern how he will survive 50 concerts they were concerned how to manipulate him ONE MORE time via only person he trusted among family-own mother-to make him to perfomr withem which he didn need at all! they Needed it,has-beens and looosers!All of them-from karen fake,bush,ortega to own family saw and knew his issues with sleeping he had USULLY before while on tour or rehearsals-they ALL saw his deterirating and wanishing awy-so who is guilty-criminally Murderrey-morally-ALL of them and of cause aeg too!randy phillips is rare sociapath -his mannerism
    and even high voice reminds me of Joe Pesci sadistic mobsters form Scorcese movies-they are awful all of them and they didnt respected or cared for MJ noone of them.As for criminal guilt for me insurance is critical point also unsign murrey contract-murderry was e-mailing that MJ is healthy to London insurance company whileMichael was dying at the next room!also I wonder what Phillips told to Murrey,but we will never find real truthbut again returing to this lawsuitnow-AS i SEE article is written at april hope after Randy Jacosn and Katherine herself testimonies-th bolg author will stop to idealixe them and to conctinue to think they do it because of justice for htheir borther /son No it not true No wonder why MJ tried to be as far as possible form own f=greedy family he was like orphan with own living parents and nurmous sibling that why he mehad all these surrogate family -some of them were OK (not thatgood and honest as Frank Casio appreaed to be) but anyway..but some -were Chnders-he tried to fin love and understanign among stranger if he had goof loving anf caring OWN parents and borhter and sisters he would do this NOWAY!

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  11. August 27, 2013 8:05 am

    The first hippocratic oath is “First do no harm”. Murray left his patient alone with Propofol soaring through his body instead of monitoring him. All Michael wanted to do was sleep because of the stress of 50 upcoming shows. Murray’s incompetence resulted in Michael never waking up resulting in 3 young children left fatherless. Murray murdered Michael and AEG is not far behind. Instead of pulling the plug on the show, AEG’s lack of care essentially pulled the plug on Michael. We lost the greatest entertainer this world will ever see because AEG was concerned with the bottom line; Money. “They don’t care, they kill for the money. “

    Like

  12. August 26, 2013 9:45 pm

    BRAVO!!! Thank you for speaking out on behalf of Michael AND his mother and children!🙂 xxoo

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  13. Trinity permalink
    August 26, 2013 8:44 pm

    Regarding the concert dates, stress and propofol. Recently Debbie Rowe testified regarding her role in MJ’s life. She talked about a time that MJ resorted to Propofol to sleep in Munich, Germany. She said she can’t remember why there he found it most difficult to sleep. But as I was searching youtube the other day, I realized that it was 1997 and he was shooting the concert there with HD camera’s, 2 shows in fact. There was going to me more camera’s and angles and he planned to release the concerts as a DVD pkg. With MJ’s perfectionist mind, I am sure he was thinking about all of the added pressure and it being the end of the tour, which I am sure was like a marathon and needing everything to be perfect. With the catch 22 of not being able to sleep because thinking about the show and needing to sleep to prepare for the show, I am sure that could drive anyone mad.

    So, the pressure of the 50 shows and schedule I am sure was a shock and needed to figure out how to get through it if he no longer felt the power to change it. He said one time in an interview that he would control his eating because he said everything else in his life was controlled for him, but he could control that. So he did. Do I feel like MJ was pushed to a corner, absolutely, there are many bullies in this world. That is the problem with this whole thing is that there was no humanity. To me MJ’s death and this trial represents a lack of humanity that exists within us all and I hope we all shine this light upon ourselves and change for the good of all. But not only that, shine so brightly that the darkness fades away.

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  14. August 26, 2013 7:30 pm

    Hello Helena, I have so much Love and Respect for you and the amazing work you do for Michael.. Just want to quickly reply to “Kasey” your comment clearly shows you have not dug deep enough to know what happened to Michael, please do that before concluding, Helena has compiled everything here for you with links to support what she has written, to come along and make a blanket statement specially under a post that fully explains what happened to Michael is ignorant, no offense,

    Helena, I find the problem with the “Senior” staff on the forums is she just wants to be “Right”

    They jumped onto a moving train, along the way they do realize its wrong, but are too far gone to jump off,

    Also the senior member of MJJC is a paralegal. I guess she never had it in her to be a attorney so she plays that role on twitter,

    what amazes me is she seems to “Know it all.” Attorneys practice in certain areas, for example a trademark/copyright lawyer does not know much about family law, and the two of those don’t know much about Wills and probate law, This “Senior” member of MJJC dictates she “Knows it all” i guess when you pointed out the truth, she felt like she was being challenged, she blocked you bc she didn’t want “her” image tainted in the forum, You see Michael is lost in the EGOS, Thats all it is, egos, competitiveness, and along they way they dont care who they throw under the bus.

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  15. May 26, 2013 1:39 pm

    AEG stated that they and Michael were partners. Their behaviour towards Michael goes straight against this.Michael was excluded from the planning,he was just told what to do and when & how.

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  16. May 26, 2013 1:31 pm

    Nobody can transport a minor without a parent or parental consent to or from US.My understanding is that his mother and sister also came, not sure about the father. If they were still married his consent was needed. If divorced the divorce legal papers set certain limits to child moving or travelling abroad.I believe Tiger Woods divorced wife cannot take off to Sweden with the children just like that.

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  17. May 26, 2013 8:11 am

    “they are guilty and have no defense other than confusing the jury.” – Tatum

    Let me continue your thought – they have no defense other than confusing the jury with fake molestation cases.

    I have no doubt whatsoever that since the moment Katherine Jackson filed her suit against AEG, they thought of a retaliatory blow in the form of a similar case, only about “molestation”. This suit was to run parallel to theirs to distract everyone’s attention from them and do away with Michael as it is actually Michael who is the cause of AEG’s ruin.

    I have no doubt that since that moment several very knowledgeable people have been studying all the allegations against Michael trying to find loopholes for starting the molestation case anew. They were (and are) regular visitors of this blog and other blogs vindicating Michael and the purpose of their visits is to learn our arguments well in advance and see what evidence we can present to refute their future case.

    They purposefully introduced here lots and lots of documents, often without any comment – just for us to pick them up and discuss.

    Now they are fully equipped as they know our arguments and are ready to bring all those old molestation stories to a new level.

    To give them their due they’ve never beaten themselves in the chest and never proclaimed themselves to be ardent Michael’s fans. They just made dispassionate comments and threw in more and more documents for us to analyze.

    I am telling you this because we shouldn’t have any illusions and should know what we are in for. This Wade Robson thing is only the tip of the iceberg. Now it is clear this plan has been in preparation for a very long time. They finally launched it when the AEG case went to court. Only no one could expect them to go that far.

    Their goal is not only smearing Michael but ruining his Estate, Michael’s companies and the financial stability that has been more or less reached by Michael’s lawyers. Their train of thought is probably this: “If we have to lose, we will force you to lose even more”.

    I think that through their close ties with the AEG people Branca and McCain knew what AEG is capable of, and therefore tried as hard as they could to stay “above the battle”. However AEG has no mercy for anyone.

    I hear that Robson has filed a civil lawsuit in L.A. County Superior Court:

    Robson is targeting MJJ Productions — Michael’s record label (owned by Sony) which hired Wade when he was 11 — and MJJ Ventures which produced Michael’s music videos.

    The two corporations may have been involved in bringing Wade to the U.S. from his home in Australia, and it’s clear Wade will argue they had some responsibility for protecting him — kind of like the relationship between priests who molest and the Catholic Church.

    As for the individual DOES (Wade names 50 DOES) it’s very clear from our research that Robson is targeting the two executors of the MJ Estate — John Branca and John McClain.

    http://www.allforloveblog.com/?p=8069

    I can bet whatever you like that WR’s suit is being supported by all these AEG researchers who have studied the ‘molestation’ documents inside out together with us.

    I’ve also read that they have prepared two more ‘victims’ ready to go for their plan. They are now in a stand-by mode waiting to see how the first case turns out.

    God help us in support of the truth.

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  18. TatumMarie permalink
    May 26, 2013 7:20 am

    Amen to that – Helena. Im so sick of the press and even people in the fan community saying that Michael was a grown man who signed this contract. Reality check, he never agreed to this treatment. AEG are low down dirty dogs for trying to grunge up his image to cover up their actions. This shows that they are guilty and have no defense other than confusing the jury.

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  19. May 26, 2013 6:25 am

    “And if AEG contributed to Michael’s death, through omission or commission, I say, let them pay. LOTS.” -Shirley A.

    AEG did contribute to Michael’s death because they were the ultimate reason for his huge (pre-concert) stress which required propofol at all. AEG created those conditions themselves – by violating their own contract, setting 50 shows, pressing them into two 3-month marathons which no one would cope with let alone the 50-year old Michael. If they had spread the dates over 9 months as they originally said they did Michael would have managed even 50 concerts – all he needed was a comfortable schedule and normal partners instead of slave-owners like AEG.

    Yes, Michael DID sign the contract, but after how much pressure to do so?

    Shirley, let us never forget that we don’t even know what document Michael signed and if he signed at all. What Shawn Trell of AEG is saying is not complete truth. For example, he says that all of them signed the contract, but the copy available to us does not contain a single signature except the one by Randy Phillips. And Randy Phillips signed only a letter of intent. However when Radaronline was publishing that document they claimed that it was the final variant. So where are all those signatures?

    I remember “fans” claiming that it was Michael’s own fault that he agreed to 50 shows. These AEG collaborators call it “business”. But Shawn Trell admits that they have NO written consent from Michael to those concerts, though the contract states that all changes should be made in writing, at least by fax. But they do not have even a fax message about it!

    The fact that Tohme did not send any confirmation of those 50 dates with a facsimile signature of Michael (which was technically very easy to do) means that Michael fired him almost IMMEDIATELY after he realized what Tohme had done for him.

    Why did MJ fire Thome Thome?

    Why? Because the 50 dates were set for Michael by Randy Phillips and Tohme. Phillips himself said that all the dates were set by the two of them. Michael did not know and was not involved in the process. Everything was decided within some 20 minutes when Tohme spoke to Michael and told him only God knows what. Most probably he said that they were spreading the dates over 9 months and that the dates could be moved at any time. We know that they did promise him to change the dates from this article: http://www.ticketnews.com/news/Michael-Jackson-tickets-for-This-Is-It-concert-series-sell-out-in-hours3913461

    However when Michael realized what a catastrophe Tohme and Phillips arranged for him he fell into a panic (David Gest’s expression):

    “He thought there were going to be ten dates as announced. But then all of a sudden Tohme, along with Randy Phillips, president of organisers AEG, had arranged 20, 30 then 50 dates.”
    “It was one show after another, with hardly any days off.”
    “..when Michael realised his schedule he began to panic. They should have realised doing one concert a day, then one day off, would be tough for any performer, let alone someone who hadn’t been on stage for nine years, it was ridiculous.”

    I’ve touched upon this topic in this post: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2013/03/10/the-story-of-michael-jackson-tohme-tohme-and-aeg-live-part-1/ (points 5, 6)

    “They didn’t care, because their financial asses were covered with their insurance policy! Michael had to put up COLLATERAL for his forfeiture, which included the MULTI-BILLION dollar ATV music catalog! “

    AEG did not have a single thing to be concerned about as their asses were indeed very well covered and many times over too.

    One small correction though – their insurance policy did not cover all the costs and the insurance sum was ultimately not paid.

    The reason for that is because firstly, in accordance with Trell’s testimony the insurance company changed the terms and required a second medical examination to make the policy valid, and second the sum was not paid because the insurance company was resentful of AEG’s claim for a compensation as the policy was to cover AEG’s losses, but they did not sustain any. They were to prove to Lloyds that they had those losses but could not. Moreover they even made much profit on Michael’s death.

    AEG had to withdraw their claim to the insurance company because they could not prove those losses and this was the main reason for the claim withdrawal.

    As to Michael’s collateral and a possibility to have access to both of his Catalogs there are several subtleties here:

    – in case the concerts were cancelled, formally they had to right to claim repayment of the advances only and compensation of their production costs which they placed fully on Michael’s shoulders which is an outrage in and of itself (altogether some $34mln or so).

    – but they would have never stopped at that. They would have claimed at least some compensation for the tickets sold (unknown sum – multiply 1 mln tickets at least by their nominal value and add to it the price for the so-called premium tickets sold at hundreds and even thousands). Of course they were still supposed to have the sum they received from selling tickets which they could return but there would still be a lot of claims towards Michael and a lot of litigation involved.

    – but the main thing is that they would have claimed damages for their unfilled venues. They would have cried crocodile tears that the venues were empty and they could not organize replacement concerts quickly. So add to the above hundreds of millions of dollars more.

    This gives us some idea of the amount of money they could have claimed from Michael in case they themselves “pulled the plug”.

    To get such a huge sum the assets of MJ’s company were not enough, and they would have sued him to get to the assets which were in his individual posession. Shawn Trell admitted that Michael as an individual was also responsible for his financial obligations. And this was opening the road to the Catalogs. Both the Beatles and MJ’s own catalog could have been obtained – by means of a litigation process only but nevertheless could.

    The Beatles catalog is safeguarded by two Trusts, but these Trusts do not make the Catalog totally immune. If the court decided that Michael’s 50% share of it was to cover AEG’s “damages” that would be it.

    And please remember that AEG specifically mentioned in their papers with MJ that even a bankruptcy process was not saving Michael from repaying to AEG all their “losses”.

    And also please remember that the paper under which they gave him the initial $5mln was a kind of a general power of attorney. In case Michael did not pay them they were becoming his full-time attorneys who would have access to all Michael’s past and future earnings and act on his behalf in all his businesses.

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  20. Sina permalink
    May 26, 2013 5:31 am

    @Shirley A – Amen.
    I second every single word you said.

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  21. May 26, 2013 4:58 am

    “This is such BS..they supported Michael, paid off a 3 million dollar debt” -rebelijenne

    Who told you that AEG “paid off” a 3 mln dollar debt? They gave Michael an advance of $5mln which he was entitled to anyway as any artist is.

    Though this was Michael’s money they did not allow him to dispose of it as he wanted to and set a condition that 3 mln out of it was to be paid to the 2 sea records. The remaining sum was going to Michael’s company where Tohme was president.

    If AEG “pulled the plug” Michael was to return this $5mln. advance plus all the money spent on production. If he failed to AEG had the right to grab all Michael’s assets to compensate for the money spent. But they would have never stopped at that – they would have sued him for “lost profit”, “the venue unfilled on 50 dates”, etc. They would have charged him billions if they themselves cancelled the tour.

    Michael was absolutely terrorized by that prospect, especially since he never gave any reason to AEG to pull the plug.

    “sick of it.. go away…. More real important things on this life..”

    If you are sick of this “BS” you are free to go away at any time and take care of other things in life, however for some reason you are staying. As to me I will not go away.

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  22. rebeljenne@yahoo.com permalink
    May 25, 2013 11:28 pm

    This is such BS..they supported Michael, paid off a 3 million dollar debt, Mj hid what he was doing at night w/ Murray.. It’s all a mess.. sick of it.. go away…. More real important things on this life..

    Sent from my HTC One™ S on T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network.

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  23. Shirley A. permalink
    May 25, 2013 7:45 pm

    Wow: to Kasey and others who continue to say that the Jacksons are the greedy ones, and the ones who are tarnishing his memory, in LIFE, AEG were the greedy ones, who cared nothing for the man – all they saw was dollar signs in their pockets!!! Who, even as they were on their way to have Michael sign the contract and pose as his friendly business partners, were the ones calling him a “freak” and were anxious about even GOING TO HIS HOUSE because they thought him “creepy”!!! (What did they think he’d DO to them in his house??!! SMH…)

    THEY were the ones who ignored Michael’s state of health, regardless of the fact that if Michael fell ill, they wouldn’t have a show!!! They didn’t care, because their financial asses were covered with their insurance policy!!!! They hired “Dr.” Murray and agreed to pay his salary, in order to keep Michael in shape for the tour, and yet, they didn’t go over to MJ’s house on June 20th to read the riot act to MURRAY… No, instead, they gave MICHAEL shit!! And threatened to pull the plug on the show, and they REALLY didn’t care because again, THEIR ASSES WERE COVERED WITH THE INSURANCE POLICY!!!

    AND because within the contract, Michael, if HE forfeited for whatever reason, including poor health, would have to repay to AEG, every dime that they put out in pre-production costs!! For that, Michael had to put up COLLATERAL for his forfeiture, which included the MULTI-BILLION dollar ATV music catalog!!!!!!!! AEG had a win-win scenario for themselves in that contract. But Michael had NO safety net. He had no cancellation insurance should AEG fail to live up to THEIR part of the deal!!! Which included making sure he was in good health!

    Most promoters cater to their stars, ensuring their happiness and well-being, in order to bring out the best in them, and in consequence, to make their money. But AEG operated differently… They treated MJ as a possession, a commodity to be manipulated. Their hiring of Murray was for show only… to “appease” Michael Jackson. If they had really cared about Michael being in top form, they would have MADE SURE Murray was QUALIFIED to take care of Michael Jackson!! And they did NOT.

    They stood their ground on many other issues in the contract, doing their diligent research of all other fine points, but in this matter, they just went with whatever Dr.’s name came up first. WHY? Because they didn’t care. It didn’t make a diff to their wallets, because either way, show or no show, they’d make their money off Michael Jackson.

    Sure, they appeared to care because I’m sure they’d rather look like a company who promotes reliable artists and successful concerts, to save their reputation for future money deals… but if push came to shove, the money bottom line is the MOST important thing… they could always blame the artist and save their own reputation.

    Michael Jackson, as the media had always liked to report, was an easy mark for that, right?? Blame MJ… he was a drug addict, after all, right? A molester? A freak? A diva? They didn’t care about MJ’s health or happiness at all… They were operating like some Circus masters, who don’t give a damn about their animal acts, for instance. They’ll cage them and whip them if need be, to get them to still “perform” at ShowTime… AEG gave out “orders”, as master to a slave! And held over Michael’s head, the loss of the ATV catalog and in essence, his remaining financial life raft!

    Yes, Michael DID sign the contract, but after how much pressure to do so? And under what circumstances? What state of mind? And was this before or AFTER the agreement was changed from 10 shows to 50?? Before or after the additional number of shows were jammed into the same time frame? What backdoor agreements were going on between MJ’s original manager, Thome Thome and AEG, that MJ didn’t know about, and that were perhaps tying Michael’s hands so that he couldn’t get OUT of the deal?

    Why did MJ fire Thome Thome? Was it because of the changes to the contract and his inability to properly safeguard Michael’s best interest??

    It is not the Jacksons who are tarnishing Michael’s legacy, it is AEG who is TRYING to… NOW, to save their asses. Their insurance policy was denied by Lloyd’s of London. No safety net after all … Oops! Poor AEG!!! Oh, but wait… they managed to make their money back anyways… with the THIS IS IT film and DVD… they advanced a supposed $30 million in pre-production costs… and recouped it all and THEN SOME, thanks to the undeniable worldwide success of the film. But I guess THAT wasn’t being greedy, right?

    So, back to the Jacksons…. (and by the Jacksons, we are talking about his MOTHER, who is 84, and his CHILDREN, who are all MINORS!)

    WHY is it that THEY are seen as “greedy” and tarnishing MJ’s memory??? Is it because his mom and kids want to see justice done and have all persons contributing to his premature demise (murder) dutifully punished? Is it because they are bringing forth the emails from AEG execs and exposing AEG’s true distain of Michael to light??

    Do these people who hate on the Jacksons and support AEG think that prescription drug addiction, insomnia, and mental health issues are shameful? Do Michael’s health issues shatter their perfect perception of who Michael was?? Is it not okay for him to have been human and have frailties and moments of weakness from time to time like everyone else? WHY do they think it is okay for hundreds of other people to “make money off of Michael Jackson’s name” and not his own family, as retribution for the loss of their loved one? Did they feel the same way about civil court monetary settlements when OJ’s murdered wife’s family filed for the same kind of thing? The awarding of the money in the wake of a “win” in the Civil court is not usually why the family members file such claims; rather, they do so because simply, it is another way for those responsible for a death to be seen as responsible for said death; A way to hold them accountable; A way for the world to see them as such.

    If families were seen as being greedy every time there is a Civil Court claim filed, then surely, Civil Court trials would be abolished. Since they continue to exist, it is because they are seen as a family’s RIGHT to do so, in the eyes of the Law.

    The Jacksons have every right to be bringing down this lawsuit, and I sincerely hope that they win this battle. NO ONE should have the right to take advantage of another to the degree that they cause their death. Period. And if AEG contributed to Michael’s death, through omission or commission, I say, let them pay. LOTS.

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  24. May 25, 2013 3:09 pm

    “I have a hard time with the fake fans, those who support AEG. Why fight for AEG?” – kaarin22

    I haven’t been really following them as I had enough of all those disputes with the Senior staff (Ivy) on MJJ Community forum after which they blocked me. But I am amazed to learn that they are even fighting for AEG. How can that be possible?

    I mean how is it possible to even call oneself a “fan” of Michael Jackson if you are actually supporting people who turned Michael’s last days into a nightmare? Who made him suffer, despair, cry? Who disregarded his wishes, ignored his needs, laughed at him behind his back and called him a “freak”? Who made him work like a slave on a plantation forcing him into non-stop training and rehearsing?

    What right did AEG have to behave like that to Michael Jackson – the man on whom those concerts depended at all? Who are they in comparison with Michael? What good have they done to the world except that they keep stuffing their pockets with hundreds of millions for their own precious needs?

    If at this stage of the AEG trial – when we already learned so much about their mistreatment of Michael – there are still “fans” who support AEG it is time to name all these people one by one as the WORST Michael’s ENEMIES.

    I understand that some people may be supporting AEG, but then they should drop their masks and stop calling themselves Michael’s fans. It is EITHER this OR that.

    You cannot serve two masters. You have to choose between the Mammon and the Truth.

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  25. May 25, 2013 2:38 pm

    Thome Thome:I will take care of the business side,you the artistic one.(and we,the business, will drive you to the edge.)

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  26. May 25, 2013 2:31 pm

    I have a hard time with the fake fans, those who support AEG. Why fight for AEG? What in the world inspires them?–You said it,all they had to do was to listen to Michael. He did well on June 23 & 24, maybe it helped that he had rested for 2 days prior. Late 24 (or really early 25)
    he was very tired, knowing (or thinking)that he had to do another day of hard work the next day. There was plenty time to try out this type of schedule, but then they had set the dates and sold masses of tickets already,so..for them there was no turning back. They, AEG claim they were partners, it is customary to take the other into account if that really was the case.

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  27. May 25, 2013 2:08 pm

    “Lots of fake fans out there working for AEG and co. It’s not about the money like some think; it’s about justice.” – Carole

    Oh, you also noticed about those fake fans? I have the impression that whole forums and sites are full of these people.

    Of course it is about justice. If it were not for this trial we would not know the precious details we are learning now. All this information still needs to be analyzed to restore the truth as it was.

    And it would be only fair if Michael (and his children) got back the money he earned during those hardest months of his life. And a compensation for every minute of his suffering too. Why doesn’t anyone think that Michael earned it? Did he suffer for nothing in the hands of these beasts?

    Like

  28. Carole Tia permalink
    May 25, 2013 9:22 am

    Thank u Helene for your hard work on defending Michael.( am glad I found this blog)

    Lots of fake fans out there working for AEG and co.
    We the real Mj lovers are not blind we know the truth.
    I have faith KJ and Kids are going to “win”
    It s not about the money like some think; it s about justice.
    “Truth will always prevail where is pain taken to bring it to light”
    G Washington

    Like

  29. May 24, 2013 3:18 am

    Shirley A. shared with us invaluable information – thank you very much for it! It is a precious testimony from Jonathan Moffet:

    Last May 2012, I met with MJ’s drummer and friend, Jonathan Moffet, after an IMMORTAL show in Quebec City, and we sat down to talk about the This Is It tour. I had asked him specifically about Michael’s health and Jonathan explained that while MJ was getting stronger and that his voice was excellent, he (Jonathan) had been worried about the number of shows and the schedule.

    When I brought up the notion that the 50 shows were over a 9 month period, which didn’t seem that bad, and that MJ looked so capable in the This Is It film, Jonathan informed me of the winter break in the schedule, and that in actuality, they would be playing 3 to 4 shows PER WEEK!!

    He shook his head solemnly and said, for a singer, 50 years old, who suffers from intense insomnia due to adrenaline, and who lays his all out on stage for every performance, Michael needed more “off time” to recuperate between shows.

    The fact that they (AEG) kept adding more and more shows to the itinerary was cause for deep concern. And the fact that Michael objected and they didn’t care, was even more disturbing. He had been genuinely concerned for Michael’s health.

    Shirley’s conclusions fully coincide with mine and she worded it perfectly!

    So sad that some fans are dismissing Michael’s own needs and wants and are choosing to see this entire trial as a supposed “money grab” by the Jackson family. They are missing the big picture: That Michael would still be alive today, had he been able to have the tour schedule HE wanted, which would have placed much less stress upon himself! Had that happened, he wouldn’t have had the intense insomnia… he could have slept enough between even rehearsals! The propofol would not have been necessary, had he been allowed to prepare at his own pace, with nature and time enabling his rest, for rehearsal and performances alike! But it was AEG’s schedule that was in place. It was AEG who acted as if Michael was in servitude to AEG’s bidding. It was AEG, despite being PARTNERS with Michael in this venture, that seemed to think they were the “boss”. But the simple fact was, as Michael knew it, without HIM, AEG had no show!

    But, as anyone who has read the AEG/MJ contract knows, AEG didn’t even have to really worry about that: their financial asses were more than covered, if the performances were not to be; they stood to make millions, whether there was a show or not. and THERIN lies the real problem, and where Michael, and we, as fans, can truly state unequivocally, “They don’t really care about us!”

    Like

  30. May 23, 2013 11:12 am

    “MJ was responsible for the hiring of Murray…period!!!!” rebeljenne

    Michael Jackson was responsible for hiring Karen Faye too (as he invited her into the project), only like Murray and all the rest of them Karen Faye had a contract with AEG and had to obey their orders. All of them did, so who invited whom does not matter.

    AEG could hire, AEG could fire, AEG was the boss for Murray. Period.

    Like

  31. rebeljenne@yahoo.com permalink
    May 22, 2013 8:50 pm

    MJ was responsible for the hiring of Murray…period!!!!

    Sent from my HTC One™ S on T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network.

    Like

  32. Shirley A. permalink
    May 20, 2013 12:25 pm

    Hi Helena.

    Thanks for your “on the money” commentary. I have shared this with my friends on Facebook.

    I especially liked seeing the actual Tour Schedule.

    Last May 2012, I met with MJ’s drummer and friend, Jonathan Moffet, after an IMMORTAL show in Quebec City, and we sat down to talk about the This Is It tour. I had asked him specifically about Michael’s health and Jonathan explained that while MJ was getting stronger and that his voice was excellent, he(Jonathan) had been worried about the number of shows and the schedule. When I brought up the notion that the 50 shows were over a 9 month period, which didn’t seem that bad, and that MJ looked so capable in the This Is It film, Jonathan informed me of the winter break in the schedule, and that in actuality, they would be playing 3 to 4 shows PER WEEK!! He shook his head solemnly and said, for a singer, 50 years old, who suffers from intense insomnia due to adrenaline, and who lays his all out on stage for every performance, Michael needed more “off time” to recuperate between shows. The fact that they (AEG) kept adding more and more shows to the itinerary was cause for deep concern. And the fact that Michael objected and they didn’t care, was even more disturbing. He had been genuinely concerned for Michael’s health.

    So sad that some fans are dismissing Michael’s own needs and wants and are choosing to see this entire trial as a supposed “money grab” by the Jackson family.😦 They are missing the big picture: That Michael would still be alive today, had he been able to have the tour schedule HE wanted, which would have placed much less stress upon himself! Had that happened, he wouldn’t have had the intense insomnia… he could have slept enough between even rehearsals! The propofol would not have been necessary, had he been allowed to prepare at his own pace, with nature and time enabling his rest, for rehearsal and performances alike! But it was AEG’s schedule that was in place. It was AEG who acted as if Michael was in servitude to AEG’s bidding. It was AEG, despite being PARTNERS with Michael in this venture, that seemed to think they were the “boss”. But the simple fact was, as Michael knew it, without HIM, AEG had no show!

    But, as anyone who has read the AEG/MJ contract knows, AEG didn’t even have to really worry about that: their financial asses were more than covered, if the performances were not to be; they stood to make millions, whether there was a show or not. and THERIN lies the real problem, and where Michael, and we, as fans, can truly state unequivocally, “They don’t really care about us!”

    Like

  33. May 16, 2013 4:14 pm

    “I don’t know why you are leaving tohme out of Michael being killed ,he is up to his hairline in it. Remember it was Dr Tohme and AEG that put those extra concerts on Michael ((50 shows).”– Dolorea

    I am absolutely NOT leaving Tohme out of the gang that brought about Michael’s death. He was the other side of this terrible business. But I cannot write in every post about Tohmea again and again – there are numerous posts about him in this blog. Here are the latest three:

    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2013/03/10/the-story-of-michael-jackson-tohme-tohme-and-aeg-live-part-1/
    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/the-story-of-michael-jackson-tohme-tom-barrack-and-aeg-live-part-2/
    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/the-story-of-michael-jackson-tohme-neverland-and-some-irrelevant-questions/

    “all you have to do is look at that contract, they didn’t want him to make it to that 02 stage”

    I studied the contract and think that it is the ugliest document possible. I also agree that AEG most probably did not want Michael to make it to the O2 stage at all – even despite all their public demonstration of how terribly willing they were.

    Like

  34. Dolorea permalink
    May 16, 2013 3:27 pm

    I don’t know why you are leaving tohme out of Michael being killed ,he is up to his hairline in it. Remrber he is Randy Phillips brother in law and they are in this together ,all with the rest of them that took our Michael from us. All of Michael Jackson real fans , please let stand behind Mrs Jackson and Michael’s kids to help find out what happen to him and who did it.Mrs Jackson needs our help, don’t let AEG and them others get away with this . They are con artist, they want you to think that this is all on Michael and the doctor, NO!all you have to do is look at that contract, they didn’t want him to make it to that 02 stage,they had murray to give that stuff to him for 60 days to kill him before he could do it, The point to this is to do this so he would fail, so they could get paid. AEG contract was for them , not Michael Jackson, they was getting all the money and Michael was going to be broke, but instead he die.Remeber it was Dr Tohme and AEG that put those extra concerts on Michael ((50 shows).

    Like

  35. May 16, 2013 3:13 pm

    “I do hope and pray that the Jacksons will win this case….this is a matter of JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL!” – mariheart4michael

    I also get up in the morning and go to bed at night praying that they win the case. And I am sure that if they win a lot of money all these “molestation” stories will cease to exist as if my some magic. Everyone will be wary of coming up with their bogus repressed memories for fear of being sued.

    “thanks indeed for giving us an eye view of waht`s happening on the Mj funbase right now”

    As to the fanbase I have no doubt whatsoever that some people who are holding even key positions among fans (admins of forums, etc.) are working for AEG. In the face of so much evidence against AEG I simply have no other explanation why they become extremely concerned and even furious whenever you say a word against this company.

    What is also interesting that as a rule these people are very knowledgeable, well-informed and also having access to all necessary documents.

    Like

  36. May 16, 2013 2:58 pm

    Hi there Helena…..thanks indeed for giving us an eye view of waht`s happening on the Mj funbase right now..I was stunned that it`s happening… i could feel what Mom katherine and Michael`s children are going through….loosing Michael a loving son and a doting Dad…..I admire your Blog……I saw the schedule of thia is it which you posted..That alone made Michael so worried…how sad that no one has cared for him from day one..Many were speechless and cared only their own gains…or some friends were afraid to say the truth on his face….But this is destiny…I do hope and pray that the Jacksons will win this case….this is a matter of JUSTICE FOR MICHAEL! and Im sure he wants this to happen…The truth…as he said…” Lies run sprint but the truth….runs marathon…… is all for Love……

    GOD BLESS THE FAITHFUL SOLDIERS OF LOVE
    and Michael……..Rest in peace my Angel… For all time♥♥♥Mari Heart

    Like

  37. Roger Wauters permalink
    May 11, 2013 10:03 am

    In all interviews i seen of Katherine Jackson she made a sweet and honest impression on me. She has the same right as any one else to defend her son and the truth. It is a shame that this trial has brought down to only 1 accusation against AEG Live but it will be anough. They knew there wallot was in danger so made Michael pay in advance. MJF UNITED we stand!

    Like

  38. Sina permalink
    May 4, 2013 7:22 pm

    Helena I hope you dont mind that I post this message from Michaes cousin.

    https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10151661058948885

    My Grandmother and the Trial. may 4 2013 10:49

    I normally keep my mouth shut. I usually choose not to speak my mind and give any energy to negativity, opinions, news reports, blog comments, and even over the years I’ve become less and less interested in watching television for many of these reasons. Let’s just say as a close family member MOST of what you see or read or hear from others in general is FALSE information. I repeat FALSE information. Some are not malicious and just reporting on incorrect details and some are.

    With that said I just want to publicly say my heart goes out to my grandmother right now and the kids and pray she stays strong which I know she will. Lots of slanted accusations flying around reliable news outlets about her DEMANDING 40 billion which is lie and a tactic used to make the family look terribly greedy and desperate, leading to a lack of sensitivity that will overshadow the case. The jury decides the numbers.

    In the eyes of many out there these aren’t human beings, this isn’t a son, this isn’t a mother, and these aren’t children. But I assure you they’re no different than the rest of us and if it was your kid you would do EVERYTHING possible to go after the truth and apparently this new evidence brought to her attention could not be ignored. Something is obviously array to put it lightly with these documents and testimonies otherwise the judge would have fully dismissed the trial. This a mother who has a responsibility to her son since he also left her a great portion of his legacy.

    In this family we have never backed down, took what was given, or allowed ourselves to be bullied. We do our due diligence methodically, sticking to the facts and not getting wrapped up in the bullsh**t. Those of you who are supporters, thank you so much and please try to set the same example by sticking to the facts and remembering we’re all human and deserve to be given the same rights as anyone else.

    ~ Yashi Brown

    Like

  39. nannorris permalink
    May 4, 2013 12:09 am

    I also thought I had read a tweet that said that Murray called AEG when he got to the hospital after MJ died.
    If you just lost your patient , I dont think you would call a corporation, unless your responsibilty was to the corporation..
    He told the police that he was working for MJ but being paid by AEG, I think,,
    That sounds like something the people at AEG migh t have directed him to say also, to cover themselves legally..like he was coached by AEG , what to say to the police….
    I actually had respect for Ed Chernoff, he seemed like the only decent man on Murrays defense team ..I remember him getting very frustrated because he couldnt mention AEG..
    I will have to watch his closing argument again..
    Thanks for all the hard work that is put in on this blog..
    Hopefully Atty Parrish has this info also

    Like

  40. nannorris permalink
    May 3, 2013 11:57 pm

    This trial is tough, but it is going through , whether we all agree or not.The only thing I can say is everytime someone wants to expose” the real Michael”, he is shown to be a sweet gentle , vunerable and trusting soul, used and abused by greedy profiteers or ambitious prosecutors.
    Look what came out in Sneddons ten year investigation of MJ….NOTHING, but all the others were exposed in court..
    This is a man drugged and recorded by his own doctor, and he is talking about wanted to help children and build a hospital..
    He isnt the only person in America with prescription med addictions and every single thing he took , needed a prescription from a doctor , or needed to be given by a doctor like this propaful nightmare he was stuck in.
    I love Keith Richard too , but he did say he mixed some of his dead dads ashes with his cocaine and snorted it..
    People think that is fine but they got a problem with MJ ? insane
    .
    Helena , I wanted to ask you about this part of your post…

    But the worst insult of it is that after two months of playing games with Murray and Jackson AEG added a point to Murray’s contract which shifted all medical expenses onto Michael Jackson’s shoulders.
    It wasn’t enough for them to have all production expenses to be paid by Jackson – they decided to add the doctor as well though their previous agreement was a different one.
    Poor Michael died evidently never knowing that he was to pay for Murray as well…
    ————-
    Do you think they did that, at the last minute, to cover themselves in case MJ died from Murrays care , so they wouldnt be held liable?
    To make sure it was changed to MJ paying the doctgor, and not AEG?
    And possibly that is why they were so quick to do stuff with the film, because they were anticipating he could possibly die?
    It is a very scary thought..
    ———–
    I also think that as soon as Murray saw dollar signs , it was all over , because if he was doing this for 60 nights, he had time and opportunity to get him proper treatment, but he would have been out of a job, since he didnt have a contract.
    AEG not signing the contract was like dangling a carrot in front of him , because if they signed it, he may have actually been able to act like a real doctor, and not have been afraid of being out of a job…..Although I suppose MJ had the option of letting him go at any time….But if he got to England and refused , MJ wouldnt have been able to find another doctor willing to do such a thing..

    Like

  41. May 3, 2013 9:52 am

    Hopefully the judge will put some limit on the dirt slung on the victim,MJ here.
    And lets hope for the Childrens Hospital,Michaels true legacy.

    Like

  42. May 3, 2013 4:21 am

    “But what are these “fans” so much afraid of I wonder? What do they themselves think of Michael that makes them so afraid?” (Helena)

    That’s an important point to me. I think we have no reason to be afraid of the truth if we trust Michael. I’m sure there will be no shocking revelations during this trial that we don’t know already. Everything new that might be revealed will certainly fit in the context of Michael’s life and will be understandable and explainable – including his flaws. We also should allow Michael some flaws like everybody else, he was human.
    But I trust Michael so much from what I learned about him that I’m not afraid of any truth. Like Helena said, Michael didn’t do anything like Mick Jagger or Keith Richards or other rock stars who are known for having had drug orgies and sex parties and who are still well-respected in the industry and in the public. Here you see the double standard MJ is treated with.
    The loud shouting about “dark secrets” promised by AEG to be revealed is just a strategy to intimidate the opposite party and influence the jury, like it always happens in opening statements. Even addiction or dependency problems (which Michael only had temporarily) are no reason to be ashamed of. He had more reason than anybody else to get dependent on medication. And I don’t want to know how many people in our society are dependent on medicine and would not admit it.
    Let’s believe in Michael, he deserves our trust.

    Like

  43. lynande51 permalink
    May 2, 2013 9:15 pm

    An Murraywould hve done whateverhe had to do to keep from having blood tests done on Michae.

    Like

  44. lynande51 permalink
    May 2, 2013 9:11 pm

    Yes Conrad Murray killed Michael directly however he was taking directions from Randy Pillips and Paul Gongaware.It just came out in court that the police have a voicemail from Dileo to Murray on the 20th when he was so sick.He said that they had to get blood work on Michael to find out what he was doing.It was just after that at a meeting that Murray told Kenny Ortega not to play amateur psychiatrist.It would seem if Frank called Murray AEG knew that Michael was sick and dd nothing. They also put Murray in charge of gettng Mchael to rehersals and bring back Thome.

    Like

  45. May 2, 2013 4:33 pm

    “you never leave a patient unattended. They have to be constantly monitored and that is where Murray is at fault.” – Alison

    Murray has his guilt and AEG have theirs. If some doctor kills someone in a hospital through negligence, his personal guilt will not absolve the owners of the hospital of their own guilt – they did not provide the equipment, did not provide a nurse and did not even care what the doctor was doing.

    In fact they even saw the patient slowly dying, but instead of help were proclaiming “tough love” towards him.

    Like

  46. May 2, 2013 4:16 pm

    “I don’t understand why some fans are siding with AEG on this. AEG have made it clear they will do ANYTHING to defend their actions. This means they will drag Michael Jackson’s name down to the ground if they have to. Why do some fans think that this is acceptable?? Michael has paid with his life because of their ruthless greed.” – mjsilverfox

    Because they are falling for AEG’s blackmail and are ready to excuse them even Michael’s death only to make AEG keep their mouth shut.

    But what are these “fans” so much afraid of I wonder? What do they themselves think of Michael that makes them so afraid?

    Don’t they know that Michael never did anything that he (or we) could be ashamed of? He was sincere and honest, and always spoke about his problems openly. When it was Demerol he announced it to the whole world in his TV statement and further spoke about it in a great song “Morphine” which testifed to his determination to rid himself of the addiction. And he did beat it, which very few people accomplish.

    Well, what else? Propofol? And I would ask all those critics of Michael Jackson – what would YOU do if you could not sleep for several nights running but still had to do concerts? And if even the best medical system was unable to help you? And he had to work, survive, raise children… How are you supposed to live if you cannot sleep?

    If anyone tells me how I will be very much willing to listen to this person.

    Why don’t all these moralists imagine for a moment what it’s like to be totally deprived of sleep? It was Michael’s tragedy and not a drawback. How dare they compare it with some narcotics taken for recreation?

    But even if they do compare why don’t they have issues with Oprah Whinfrey then, who admitted addiction to opiates in her earlier years or Mick Jagger who was even involved in some scandal over drugs? Why only Jackson and why so much hypocrisy I wonder?

    All these moralizers tend to portray themselves as pure angels. Only if all of us are so ideal then why is this world so ugly a place to live in?

    Like

  47. Alison Maleski permalink
    May 2, 2013 3:47 pm

    Lyn you are right on target with what you are saying. But it still puts the responsibility back onto Conard Murray and he will pay for what he has done. Just to let you know I have worked in the healthcare as a nurse and know that you never leave a patient unattended. They have to be constantly monitored and that is where Murray is at fault.

    Like

  48. May 2, 2013 10:59 am

    @Teva
    The amount of propofol found in Michael Jackson was off the charts. He also had a slew of other prescription drugs that made a deadly cocktail with the propofol. The paramedic said he look like a hospice patient.

    I’m only going focus on one point. The facts are that AEG agreed to provide certain things for Michael and they did not. What came out in trial was that if Murray had the equipment he was supposed to have Michael’s life could have been saved. If AEG had provided Murray with the assistant his life could have been saved as well.

    Like

  49. May 2, 2013 10:58 am

    @ lynande51
    I agree, and what people are also forgetting is the fact that a doctor put Michael on propofol in the first place. He would have never used it to that extreme, and probably would have stopped had there been negative consequences that he was aware of but when a doctor tells you something is okay or even performs the procedure – What are you supposed to think?

    Like

  50. May 2, 2013 9:28 am

    “This should of been a criminal case. I don’t know if the Jackson team decided for this to be a civil case from the start or if the decision for a criminal case was taken out of their hands, leaving Katherine with no other alternative but to sue?”

    Silverfox, the short answer is that there was no chance to have a criminal case, let alone have criminal charges brought against AEG.

    In general the family can complain to the police, and the police can even open a criminal case. But when the prosecutor looks into all the evidence and does not see reason to bring charges the case will be closed and that’s it. (This is what happened with the Chandler case in 1993 – there wasn’t a single shred of evidence found against MJ and two prosecutors had to close the case).

    Even at the stage of looking into Murray’s case Judge Pastor decided there was no culpability on the part of AEG or Michael’s manager Tohme (no evidence pointing to their guilt) and ruled that no questions about AEG and the financial side of the deal should be raised. So during Murray’s trial they did not allow even simple and innocent questions like “Did Tohme know Randy Phillips?” and “In what place did the talks take place?” It was extremely disturbing to see this wall of silence around AEG.

    Chernoff made statements implying that that there was much more to the case than just Murray’s guilt:

    “Murray’s defense attorney Ed Chernoff pointedly asked a prosecution witness, “Are you being sued?” Later, during his closing argument, Chernoff referred to his client as “just a little fish in a big, dirty pond.”

    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Michael-Jackson-AEG-Katherine-Civil-Lawsuits-133582838.html

    When everyone around was indisposed even to look into AEG’s possible culpability the civil case was the only chance for Katherine.

    But there are some advantages in civil suits too. They are “wider” in terms of collecting evidence while a criminal case is “narrow” in this respect – you cannot go beyond certain limits in the discovery process:

    “Generally in civil court, the range of issues to be decided is far broader than they ever are in a criminal case; and that means a lot more evidence comes in,” said David M. Ring, a Los Angeles attorney. “Instead of just looking in the closet, you are looking in the whole house.”

    http://losangelescriminallegalblog.com/2011/11/jackson-wrongful-death-suit-criminal-and-civil-liability-for-homicides.html

    And second, the standard of proof in a civil case is not as high as in a criminal case, so it is easier to prove the guilt:

    “A prosecutor [in a criminal case] has to show the defendant committed the crime “beyond a reasonable doubt,” which is a difficult standard to meet.
    In a civil case, the plaintiff need only show responsibility by a “preponderance of the evidence,” which in layman’s terms means it is more than 50% likely that the defendant is responsible.
    Also, evidence laws are more lenient in civil cases than criminal, meaning that evidence excluded from the criminal trial may be used in the upcoming civil cases.”

    http://www.legalpad.com/2011/11/dr_conrad_murray_case_highligh.html

    So again, the criminal case was not possible while the civil one is. However if during the civil trial some evidence is found pointing to criminal intentions of AEG, a criminal case may be opened.

    Like

  51. mjsilverfox permalink
    May 2, 2013 7:33 am

    I agree 100% Helena!! Of course AEG need to take responsibility for the huge role they played in Michael’s untimely death. Ever since he passed away I haven’t been able to shake the fact that up until now they have gotten away with everything they put him through leading up to June 25th. The immense amount of pressure they put him under, the stress and the fact that it was becoming more and more obvious to everyone that Michael would never manage the amount of shows they had lined up for him, yet they continued to push & push, backing him into a position they knew he had no way out of.

    I’m unsure why Katherine has opted for a civil rather than criminal case against them. No sum of money will ever account for, or bring any kind of justice for what happened to Michael. This should of been a criminal case. I don’t know if the Jackson team decided for this to be a civil case from the start or if the decision for a criminal case was taken out of their hands, leaving Katherine with no other alternative but to sue? I don’t know. Whatever their personal reasons for that decision made, it’s irrelevant to the fact that AEG are still accountable for the negligent way in which they dealt with Michael. I will never back AEG in this EVER!! Whether it’s a civil or criminal case, AEG need to take responsibility one way or the other.

    This case is going ahead now and all we can hope for is that AEG don’t get away with trying to destroy his good name and everything he had achieved throughout his lifetime by dragging him through the dirt & publicizing negative crap about him. I don’t understand why some fans are siding with AEG on this. AEG have made it clear they will do ANYTHING to defend their actions. This means they will drag Michael Jackson’s name down to the ground if they have to. Why do some fans think that this is acceptable?? Michael has paid with his life because of their ruthless greed.

    As much as I’m aware that Michael would never have wanted any of this to be going ahead in the first place, I also know that he loved his Mum, and despite any opinions fans may have of his family I think he would hate it that fans are siding against his own Mother and attacking Katherine for her reasons for going ahead with this case.

    I personally believe that AEG are responsible for the fact that Michael is no longer with us and it’s about time that finally they are having to answer for what they did. Michael was really upset with the way they were taking decisions that should of been his, out of his own hands and forcing him into that kind of rigorous schedule. They knew full well that he wasn’t well enough to deal with it and their actions were totally unethical.

    Pushing my personal feelings about the Jackson’s to one side, (Not including the children in that) No Mother or family should ever have to go through what they did and still continue to go through daily. This could have all been avoided, had AEG acted responsibly & professionally and followed through with at the very least a basic level of care towards Michael. I hope Philip Anschutz, Randy Philips and Paul Gongaware are forced to face up to the fact that Michael would still be here if it weren’t for them and if that means crippling them financially as a way of making them see that, then I hope Katherine’s team does just that.

    ~ silverfox ~

    Like

  52. May 2, 2013 4:42 am

    Guys, I’ve added Lynette’s commentary on the medical side of the story to the post about DAY 1 (which turned into a post about WEEK 1).

    The same post was also updated with the latest tweets from ABC7 Courtnews and two more articles from the LA Times. It also has the following commentary from me:

    Since the gravity of Conrad Murray’s financial problems is no surprise to us let me focus on another point.
    WHO WAS TO PAY CONTRAD MURRAY AFTER ALL?

    From Marvin Putnam we have already heard that Michael expected AEG to pay for the doctor, and the confirmation that the expenses on Murray were indeed AEG’s obligation is found in Randall Sullivan’s book.

    His source Tohme, attempting to paint Michael as too self-important, recklessly blurted out the truth – the expenses on Murray were AEG’s responsibility and it was after a long, long argument that the poor company had to agree to the impossible demands.

    Do not allow this “self-importance” bias to distract you from the fact that it was AEG’s responsibility to pay for the doctor:

    “Of all the demands that Michael Jackson made during the negotiation of the contract for the O2 shows, his requirement that AEG pay for the services of a “ personal physician” had been the one that Randy Phillips and the company attorneys resisted most vigorously. Jackson’s refusal to compromise on this point suggested that his sense of self-importance had made a comeback every bit as extraordinary as the one Randy Phillips hoped to see onstage at the O2.

    “ Look,” Michael told Phillips, “ my body is the mechanism that fuels this entire business. Just like President Obama, I need my own doctor attending to me twentyfour/seven.”

    Paul Gongaware remembered Jackson pointing to himself and saying, “This is the machine. You have to take care of the machine.”

    Frank Dileo pointed out to Phillips and Gongaware that hiring a personal physician might be a good way to separate Michael from Arnold Klein, whom all three men believed to be Jackson’s primary drug supplier. AEG agreed to pay for a private physician, even yielding to Michael’s demand that he alone be permitted to pick the MD who would live with him.”

    So AEG agreed to pay to the doctor, supply him with the equipment necessary for taking care of Jackson and provide an assistant to him, but in return they demanded that he should perform the services requested of him by the Producer and not Michael Jackson. This was logical and even fair as the one who pays is ordering the music too.

    And the music they did order – AEG gave Murray various tasks, like making Jackson attend every rehearsal, taking care of the insurance and not paying attention to hysterical guys like Ortega, etc.

    But the equipment they did not provide and the payment they did not make.

    Yes, going into a deal with AEG Live is like playing football on a field with one gate only.

    But the worst insult of it is that after two months of playing games with Murray and Jackson AEG added a point to Murray’s contract which shifted all medical expenses onto Michael Jackson’s shoulders.

    It wasn’t enough for them to have all production expenses to be paid by Jackson – they decided to add the doctor as well though their previous agreement was a different one.

    Poor Michael died evidently never knowing that he was to pay for Murray as well…

    Like

  53. May 2, 2013 12:48 am

    “Michael could not order it for himself because you need a DEA number to order any drug from a pharmacy.”

    Lynette, this is one of the crucial points – Michael could not get propofol himself. I’ve marked this and several other things in your post in bold type. You’ve broken it down so well that I’ll add your comment to the “Day 1” post stating our first impressions.

    “Murray did not tell the truth to a single person in this situation, what makes you think he told Michael the truth? “

    Exactly. Brain Panish is going over all those Murray’s lies to show that not a single word of Murray can be trusted. And this means Murray lied to Michael in the same way, probably sounding very convincing. If Murray managed to convince the public that he was a good doctor and some even now think he was not to blame we can imagine how trustworthy he looked to Michael.

    Well, to AEG he probably sounded trustworthy too, but their job was to thoroughly check him out – and Phillips himself said that they did. What if they indeed knew what Murray was really like?

    “Michael was losing weight because he was doing what he was told by Murray I am sure. Before you administer an anesthesia to someone you have to be NPO (nothing by mouth) for at least eight hours prior to the administration of the anesthesia”

    Oh my God, I complete forgot about it! Yes, of course – everyone is instructed not to eat before anesthesia. Those of us who had operations experienced it ourselves. And Dr. Shafer spoke about the acid from the stomach getting into lungs it as one of the worst complications that may occur during anesthesia.

    Well, then many things are becoming clear – Michael was eating only once a day following his doctor’s instructions. I looked up the chef’s (Kai Chase) testimony once again:

    Chase arrived to the Jackson home between 8 and 8:30 a.m. on June 25, 2009, the day Jackson died. Chase noticed a white bean soup that she’d made the day before and left for Jackson to eat after rehearsing for his grueling comeback tour dubbed “This Is It” was still in the fridge. A breakfast of almond and granola that she prepared for Jackson that morning was also never eaten. Murray, Jackson’s personal physician, typically came down to bring Jackson’s breakfast to him each day, she testified.

    So Murray took care of the breakfast but allowed supper to be skipped. If only AEG had paid more attention to the other people’s concerns about Michael’s weight loss!

    “This probably went on as long as an hour if not more before he fell into a deeper state of sedation from the Propofol and went into respiratory arrest.”

    Yes, the death was not a momentary one. And now we can more or less trace it back. The paramedic said he thought Michael had been dead at least for an hour by the time they arrived, which makes it approx. 11:15 or even earlier, and breathing stopped at least 10-15 minutes before Michael’s heart stopped, and this makes it 11:00 or earlier, and breathing was stopping slowly too – so how long was Murray away then?

    For an hour for sure, and probably even more. If there had been a more expensive oxymeter it would have given a signal and Murray would have heard. It was the matter of one thousand dollars.

    Like

  54. lynande51 permalink
    May 1, 2013 11:29 pm

    I think there is a serious misunderstanding in the fan community as a whole that Michael had a responsibility to not ask for the Propofol. Well I have to respectfully disagree because Michael was the patient and Murray was the doctor. He had the control of the entire situation because he not only administered it he procured it in order to administer it. Michael could not order it for himself because you need a DEA number to order any drug from a pharmacy.

    It was and always will be up to the professional not to do something that will harm the patient and Murray knew what he was doing. Murray did not tell the truth to a single person in this situation, what makes you think he told Michael the truth? One thing none of you know is the difference between how a patient views a nurse and how they view a doctor. The nurse can educate you and tell you that something is not a good idea but if the doctor comes along and says it will be okay the patient will always believe the doctor simply because they are the doctor. I doubt if Michael was any different than anyone else in that regard.

    I will say that I thought it was not possible for Murray to have been doing this every night for 60 nights but it seems that he did. Whether or not there was only the one that I believe was a near miss we will never know for sure. But doing what he was doing as often as he was doing it, it was just a matter of pure luck that Michael did not die 3 weeks or more before he did. The difference that I believe happened that night has to do with Murray’s arrogance. He had been doing it for a while with no bad outcome, just a close call or two, and he just plain got sloppy.

    Michael was losing weight because he was doing what he was told by Murray I am sure. Before you administer an anesthesia to someone you have to be NPO (nothing by mouth) for at least eight hours prior to the administration of the anesthesia except of course in the matter of an emergency. This is to prevent the possibility of the deadliest of possible side effects of an anesthesia and that is nausea. If you become nauseated and vomit while sedated you will aspirate that vomit into your lungs and die from the aspiration. That is why Michael was losing so much weight. The weight loss was not a side effect of the medication per say, it was a side effect of listening to his doctor’s instructions so the medication could be administered.

    Paramedic Seneff said that Michael looked like an end stage hospice patient. He did not tell you that the blue lips, feet and hands (mottling) show more than anything else that Murray started that drip and walked away for hours. Michael was also given massive amounts of benzodiazepines (the benzodiazepine effect stated in the coroner’s report). They had started to peak during the time that Murray started the drip and left the room. That slowed Michael’s respirations to the point that he was not oxygenated enough for the oxygen to reach his extremities even while his blood was still circulating. This probably went on as long as an hour if not more before he fell into a deeper state of sedation from the Propofol and went into respiratory arrest. So Murray wasn’t even sitting by the bedside counting his respirations. Michael could not possibly have awakened to give himself anything because his brain, deprived of oxygen, shut down long before the Propofol shut it off.

    In other words he was in a coma and probably brain dead long before Murray ever reentered that room that morning.

    Like

  55. Sina permalink
    May 1, 2013 6:59 pm

    @Teva, speaking for myself I strongly oppose such extreme measures and the risk that was taken. First propofol is not for sleep, second when its administered for a medical procedure its done in an adequate environment with neccessary equipment and competent staff. It should not have happened to begin with. But since it happened, it would not have escalated had there been proper equipment, which Murray asked and didnt get .

    Like

  56. Teva permalink
    May 1, 2013 6:18 pm

    Why are fans trying to spin this was okay? That it was fine to be using anesthesia as sleep medication.

    Like

  57. Teva permalink
    May 1, 2013 6:14 pm

    @TatumMarie

    “. If AEG provided the supplies and assistant that Murray asked them for Michael would be alive.”

    I doubt that very much. The amount of propofol found in Michael Jackson was off the charts. He also had a slew of other prescription drugs that made a deadly cocktail with the propofol. The paramedic said he look like a hospice patient. His thin body could not handled all those deadly drugs at once. There is no spin to this. Michael and Murray should never have been doing this in the first place.

    Like

  58. Paula permalink
    May 1, 2013 11:13 am

    Justice for Michael & for his family . We love you .Love from Poland.

    Like

  59. May 1, 2013 4:46 am

    “AEG didn’t give a damn about Michael” – Zelda

    Exactly. They didn’t give a damn when they set 50 shows and when arranged most of them with only one day in between the dates, which was even worse than the number itself.

    They didn’t give a damn when Kenny Ortega was worried. Randy Phillips called it Ortega’s “hysteria”.

    Phillips lied to Ortega saying that the doctor was excellent and they “checked everyone out”.

    And he repeated Murray’s words (or Murray repeated Phillips’ words) that no one should “play amateur doctors” there.

    So not only did they not give a damn themselves but they did not allow others to show concern or take care of Michael. Their retort to everyone was that “the doctor knew better” though they had never even checked him out. Or most probably they did and what they saw suited their purposes very well.

    This doctor was listening to each of their words and was very easy to manipulate. “Remember who is paying you”.

    Like

  60. mjjacksonlover permalink
    May 1, 2013 1:22 am

    Helena, thank you for your continued hard work. I just want to say that I agree with what you said above..I am so sad things have come to this. Standing for Michael Jackson…always…”Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons” as we know Michael said this….

    Like

  61. May 1, 2013 12:36 am

    “What if AEG had provided the equipment?” – Teva

    Michael would be alive now. Even if Murray was not looking there should have been a device that sends a sound signal when breathing slows down.

    Like

  62. Zelda permalink
    April 30, 2013 11:16 pm

    all this talk about Michael being responsible for his choices he made, all I have to say is you can’t really say anything until you have walk in his shoes, do you really know what this man had to deal with, we are talking about money, control, power, people that are like parasites, greedy, and I am not talking about Michaels’ family who love him so dearly, I’m talking about AEG, who didn’t care how Michael felt or what condition he was in as far as health, all AEG though about was making money and the show must go on, they saw what kind of condition he was in and change the contract from 10 shows to 50 shows, that said it all, AEG didn’t give a damn about Michael

    Like

  63. April 30, 2013 9:10 pm

    I hope Katherine wins the case against AEG. I do not blame her, any mother would do what she is doing. What happened to Michael, no one should have to experience. I will keep the Jacksons in my prayers.

    Like

  64. April 30, 2013 8:20 pm

    @teva
    What if AEG had provided the equipment? Would Katherine’s argument then be – AEG aided and abetted Murray in providing a safer at home propofol environment? Don’t you see the problem – it is a catch 22.

    One thing is clear, no doctor would agree that propofol is a good method to treat insomnia but it wasn’t illegal to administer it in the home. Murray was not obligated to tell AEG in specifics about Michael’s medical problems but they were still obligated to give him the equipment he needed. If AEG provided the supplies and assistant that Murray asked them for Michael would be alive. Why was Murray charged in the homicide case and what were the main reasons it was ruled a homicide? Read Michael’s autopsy pg. 23 under ” The manner of death is homicide based on the following:”, there is more than this to the story but this point is not hard to understand.

    Like

  65. corlista1 permalink
    April 30, 2013 7:06 pm

    Thank you, Martin, for your information and thank you, Helena, for being a gift to the part of the MJ community that truly does love and care for him! I have often gone to you when I needed to find trustworthy and factual information. For your courage, loyalty to Michael and refusal to be intimidated, you are my hero.

    I am absolutely heartsick about all of this. I don’t know where I’ve been – reading dozens of books about Michael in the last years, I guess – but I am constantly on the net and blogs re Michael and I’m staggered by the level of hate and vengeance that is out there. WTH happened?! I can’t believe these attacks on Michael’s mother that he adored above all others along with PP&B. This is no different than the cruelty and hatred that was directed at Michael. NO ONE has the right to judge her pain or the actions she’s taken to deal with it. No one!! She is his mother and PP&B are his children. Who are we to say that we know more or better than them?? Our lives for the most part move on when we turn off the computer or tend to our families and friends. Theirs never will. I grieve for Michael every day but it can’t begin to compare with what his mother and children are feeling. If this was any average American family, people would be cheering them on as victims of the “corporation”. But because it’s Michael Jackson, everyone that wants to thinks they have the right to slander and decimate his family? Why should Michael’s family deserve any less respect and compassion? I don’t like what going to happen to Michael in this trial. In fact, it terrifies me. It’s already begun. There will be no bottom to the lengths to which AEG will sink but they will not walk away smiling and with clean hands. How many times before this do you think they’ve played dirty and not gotten caught? This time may be the last time – whether they win or lose.

    Like

  66. Teva permalink
    April 30, 2013 5:49 pm

    ” Sure, we can say that Katherine’s law suit is opening the doors to a media circus in which Michael’s name will be sullied once again. ” -Raven

    In any lawsuit Michael’s name was going to be sullied. The truth is if Katherine had chosen to sue Murray his lawyers would have done the same.

    @Raven
    What if AEG had provided the equipment? Would Katherine’s argument then be – AEG aided and abetted Murray in providing a safer at home propofol environment? Don’t you see the problem – it is a catch 22.

    Like

  67. April 30, 2013 3:56 pm

    “The media is going to sling mud, regardless. But at least if KJ can prove her case, there may be some validation in it-it will not have all been in vain. On the other hand, an AEG victory, for me, would feel like the ultimate victory for EVERYONE who bullied, dehumanized and played a hand in destroying him.” – Raven

    So you feel it too? I think that for all honest people AEG’s victory would be the justification of the worst done to Michael and a crash of the last hopes that anything can ever change for the better. I personally cannot accept this outcome, so for me it is no option.

    What’s taking place now is not a mere “lawsuit”. I see it as a chance for millions of people to reassess their values and decide for themselves what is more important to them – money/ profit/revenue or human life. Michael fell victim to a corporation which put its profits first and valued a human life last. His life by the way, though it was his talent and genius that were bringing them all that profit.

    Why should we always look up to what the media says? Let them look up to what we say. To what Michael Jackson said and still hoped for when he was alive. And he hoped that there would come a time when people look in the mirror and grow ashamed at who they have turned into. And change. And through changing their own nature change the world, making it a better place.

    And this “lawsuit” is just this last chance for a change. If it does not happen now it will never happen. And then it would mean that Michael Jackson lived his life in vain.

    Dear Michael’s fans, throw off all those chains of lies, illusion and fear which are still holding you to the ground. Climb the mountain and look at the world from atop. It is only then that you will be able to understand what Michael Jackson expected of you.

    Make his dream come true and let it happen at least in his death.

    Like

  68. DenmarklovesMJ4ever permalink
    April 30, 2013 2:51 pm

    I could say a word or two about some “MJ fans” and about those who simply wants their 15 minuts in the spotlight, but I don’t have to, my MJ brothers and sisters all over the world, who realy loved him and his music know who I am thinking about, and I am sure that they agree!!! I would never say a bad word about MJ’s mother or his kids❤

    Like

  69. April 30, 2013 2:45 pm

    “It is beyond my imagination how anyone is able to belittle the one woman Michael loved so much and the woman his children adore, Mrs. Katherine Jackson.” – Cadeflaw

    It is beyond my imagination too. How can anyone claim that their pain is deeper than the mother’s pain and how can they dictate her what she should or should not do? These people forget themselves. This is not some make-belief game – this is real pain the mother and her grandchildren are going through and will live with forever after. It will never go away and let these fans not pretend that their own unhappiness over Michael’s death is anything comparable to that of his mother.

    It is due to a spell of lies AEG and their helpers have cast on Michael’s supporters. Time to throw it off and wake up.

    “The only way the real truth was going to be uncovered was through a civil trial and Mrs. Jackson did the right thing. In her shoes, if I was fit enough to wear them, I would have done the same thing, nothing different.”

    Absolutely. And this was indeed the only way. I was extremely disappointed when the whole truth was not uncovered during Murray’s trial and when not a single question about AEG was allowed, but people told me to wait for the civil trial. Now here it is, and they tell us to let the sleeping dogs lie?

    “I will always believe that AEG set Michael up to let him down. I also believe the plan was to trap him into a major contract and then snatch everything away from him. I will never believe they intended for those concerts to ever happen. Am I a “Conspiracy Theorist”, maybe, I don’t know but I know what I believe and that is that a few people conspired to bring Michael Jackson down to the lowest degree they could bring him.”

    It is only AEG propagandists who will laugh at the conspiracy theory. In fact if you replace it with a better word it will turn into a “business plan” and everything will begin looking terribly “nice”. They were making “business”, you know.

    And as regards not wanting the concerts it is possible too. But the ideal variant for them could also be having both some concerts and cancellation for the rest of them (which was quite a possible variant considering the number of shows). This way they would have enjoyed the fame of the “saviors” of Michael and would still have had the right to demand the advances back, damages for their “losses”, etc. – even if Michael fell at the very end of the tour.

    “I still don’t understand why we should be afraid of the truth. The TRUTH is needed so that the healing process can finally take place.”

    Oh, the truth is not something to be afraid of. Only those who live in illusion can be afraid of the truth. If you come to think of it those who are afraid of the truth about Michael Jackson are the ones who are also not sure of him. They paint him with a gold paint and look at him as a flawless idol. But Michael does not need to be pained gold – he was ideal even with all his flaws.

    These flaws were the scars he got in a fight with the reality. These flaws were his wounds inflicted by other people’s cruelty. His insomnia and anxiety were actually not even his flaws – they were the reflection of the flaws of the society.

    “Be encouraged, Helena, you have done well and your work is most appreciated from many of us. Well DONE. Thank you, my sister.

    Thank you so much. We are indeed sisters and it is Michael who did it for us. Never expected anything like this, but this is the greatest feeling I’ve ever experienced. My big hugs to you and all other true Michael’s supporters. Be encouraged too.

    I have decided to stick with LOVE. HATE is too great a burden to bear.
    ~Martin Luther King, Jr.~

    Great words. Love and hate are indeed matters of choice.

    Like

  70. April 30, 2013 1:56 pm

    http://amazingwomenrock.com/the-story-of-the-cracked-pot-for-anyone-whos-not-quite-perfect

    Cadeflaw, thank you for the story. Though it ends with a different moral to me it is a great story about the “cracks” or what seems to be a shortcoming at first sight turning into a big advantage in the end. I keep my fingers crossed and hope that this trial will have exactly this outcome.

    Like

  71. Elke Hassell permalink
    April 30, 2013 1:46 pm

    You all gotta start reading between the lines and stop arguing. You make MJ look naive and foolish, which HE is certainly not. This Trial is of great importance to his Mum and to him and the rest of the Fam. If you all think that MJ took this last Trial with a pinch of salt, knowing full well who set him up once again, then you are very mistaken. Michael did plan his revenge, but it took years to come together and this is the result. It finally got to the point where the “GIANTS” (whose owners are part of the Consortium that caused MJ’s “swift and sudden fall from Grace” (check over the words from Stranger in Moscow once again) are now on TRIAL!!! This is the First time EVER that this has been achieved in the “Entertainment Business”, which if won will have devastating consequences for them, as they cannot get away with those “suspicious overdose death” any longer. Future Celebs will have an open door to investigate and bring those to justice as this trial will be quoted in History of Entertainment. Michael Jackson is a Genius in everything he does, everything! And I am sorry but for you all to even consider that Michael would just let himself get pumped up with anything, is simply inexcusable. Its a silent admittance of saying Yes he was an Addict. I for one have total faith in Michael and all those “silent” friends that continue to stand up and say they never ever witnessed any of such things, that Michael was always smart, attentive, brilliant businessman, kind, charming and full of life. Take their words instead of the regurgitation of the press or otherwise. This is Michael’s mission to expose those that dwell within EVIL and are capable of “MURDER”. Its up to you what to believe, I know what I believe.

    Like

  72. April 30, 2013 1:00 pm

    Helena:

    Thank you so much for posting this information and encouragement. I know that many may not receive it as an encouragement but it is for me. I am truly saddened by all the in-house fighting and yes the world have been watching and most have pulled up a comfortable seat to watch the division unfold among us. It is a pity that WE did NOT let them down. It is beyond my imagination how anyone is able to belittle the one woman Michael loved so much and the woman his children adore, Mrs. Katherine Jackson. The only way the real truth was going to be uncovered was through a civil trial and Mrs. Jackson did the right thing. In her shoes, if I was fit enough to wear them, I would have done the same thing, nothing different.

    I will always believe that AEG set Michael up to let him down. I also believe the plan was to trap him into a major contract and then snatch everything away from him. I will never believe they intended for those concerts to ever happen. Am I a “Conspiracy Theorist”, maybe, I don’t know but I know what I believe and that is that a few people conspired to bring Michael Jackson down to the lowest degree they could bring him. I don’t need a Bachelor or Master’s Degree to figure that one out and I don’t have to be an English Scholar to practice and recognize wrong doing. Pema Chodron said “Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth” and perhaps that is what’s taking place in the fan community. Of course I still don’t understand why we should be afraid of the truth. The TRUTH is needed so that the healing process can finally take place.

    Katherine Jackson will always feel that pain in her womb for the loss of her child. As mothers we experience, emotionally and physically, some of the same things our children experience. Those of us who are mothers will identify with what I am trying to convey. However, we will never be able to feel what she feel because the experience is different and Michael came from her womb. How can we possibly know what she is feeling or experiencing? We can NOT.

    Be encouraged, Helena, you have done well and your work is most appreciated from many of us. Well DONE. Thank you, my sister.

    I have decided to stick with LOVE. HATE is too great a burden to bear.
    ~Martin Luther King, Jr.~

    Like

  73. Raven permalink
    April 30, 2013 12:25 pm

    Helena, I admire the stance you are taking on this issue. I believe the root cause of the anger is simply that we all wish this trial wasn’t happening, but if you trace it even deeper, simply that we wish there was no NEED for it to be happening. But while I can understand the sentiments, that does NOT mean AEG should get a free pass. To echo my own tweet recently posted, they are not “the good guys” in this case. They are the ones who have made it very clear that they will throw Michael Jackson under the bus at any/all costs in order to defend themselves. While my position on it isn’t as extreme as yours, I do believe they bear culpability and that there are things they need to answer for. Why, for example, was Murray not provided the medical equipment he requested? And how can they feign ignorance of what was going on, in light of such requests? I believe that those who do not approve of the trial should, at the very least, take a neutral stance and not use this as an opportunity to sling mud at Michael’s grieving mother. We should get all of the facts and try to understand this action from her perspective. Sure, we can say that Katherine’s law suit is opening the doors to a media circus in which Michael’s name will be sullied once again. But it is AEG who is actively doing that sullying, and they will have no remorse in so doing. If anything, this trial will serve to bring out THEIR true colors-both how they regarded/felt about Michael as a human being then, and now.

    As I have stated, this trial is a no win as far as Michael’s reputation coming through unscathed. In so many crucial ways, he “loses” regardless of who wins or loses this case. It only boils down to a matter of convincing a jury whether he was this manipulative, secretive drug addict who lived a double life and did not want help (AEG’s version) or this pitiful, helpless, vulnerable drug addict who desperately needed help and, instead, was pushed to his limit (KJ’s version). The media is going to lap it all up, regardless.

    But seeing as how the trial IS here-like it or not-I think we need to be looking ahead to its outcome, and at this point, that is where our energies need to be focused.

    IF AEG emerges victorious, the Jackson bashers may say, good. The greedy vultures didn’t get their windfall. But since we’re so concerned about Michael’s reputaion and legacy here, let’s look at what an AEG victory really means:

    It is validation of “their” version of Michael as the manipulative “drug addict” who tricked people; who lived a notorious double life, who was erratic and unreliable. AEG becomes, then, only the “good guys in the white hat” who tried in vain to bail him out of his situation and to give him the opportunity of a lifetime-and MJ couldn’t even live up to that expectation and responsibility!

    THAT is Michael’s legacy if AEG wins.

    And if KJ wins? Okay, yes, it still comes at a cost. But which is more damaging in the long run to Michael’s public legacy and image ? That he was an evil and drug addicted manipulator, or a victimized addict whose back was forced to the wall by a greedy and ruthless concert promoter? Neither is preferable as far as what “we” want, but the way I see it, it is at least the lesser of two evils. And at this point, considering there is no turning back, really the best that can be hoped for. I agree with wishing that the trial wasn’t happening-or more aptly, that there was no need for it to be happening-but now that it is, I believe sincerely that an AEG victory is the worst thing that could happen.

    The media is going to sling mud, regardless. But at least if KJ can prove her case, there may be some validation in it-it will not have all been in vain.

    On the other hand, an AEG victory, for me, would feel like the ultimate victory for EVERYONE who bullied, dehumanized and played a hand in destroying him.

    There might have been a time when I would have said, yes, MJ was a grown man responsible for his own choices, but with so many things that have come to light regarding AEG’s dealings with Michael and this contract, I am not so sure anymore. Yes, Michael bore some culpability in his death by the choices he made. I would never be naive enough to deny that. But that still does not mean others who were culpable get a free pass.

    Like

  74. gel permalink
    April 30, 2013 9:53 am

    I think this is not the right time for more division in the fan community just because we do not share the same sentiments about this trial. In my honest opinion, no one – fan or family member can outright say with certainty if MJ supports this trial or not. Only Michael Jackson can answer that and he is not here to. He once allowed to settle the first allegation even if he was not guilty because part of the reason he just wanted to go on with his life. Who knows what he really feels about this trial? My loyalty and support only goes to MIchael, not with KJ and definitely not with AEG. I hope he doesn’t end up on the loosing end whatever the outcome maybe.

    I have never posted on MJJC but i am a regular visitor of their site the same way i am here. In fairness to them they have always tried to maintain balance and fairness in any MJ-related topic. They have their share of trolls and haters just like in any site but it is a forum site and not a blog so there is a lot going on on every diff topic or issue but definitely it is not an anti-MJ site. I am not endorsing any site, i just don’t want it to become a battle of MJ blogs/forums just because more people there are against the trial while more people here are for the trial.

    And by the way where is Tohme Tohme in all these, he is another person we need to hear answers from but his absence and silence is just mind bogglingly creepy.

    Like

  75. Sina permalink
    April 30, 2013 5:57 am

    Thank you Off the wall 1979. I noticed the same.
    Without its instigator fandom sadly turned into sectarian insanity.
    Many ‘discovered’ him after he died which is a good thing but with the wheat also came the chaff. The owners or moderators of these websites themself lack the integrity to demand basic human behavior from their members. Not everyone can handle free speech.. Some of them actively promote hate and bad behavior, their favorite subjects: derogatory comments about other or certain artists, name calling ,also at each other , bullying and of course the usual Jackson bashing. Others do it more subtle but with the same intend and effect.
    The way fans behave reflects on Michaels image and how the public sees him. Do we ever hear that kind of rhetoric from supporters of the greats like Nelson Mandela, Dalai Lama, artists Michael looked up to like Fred Astaire and James Brown.
    Michaels name is heavily protected against commercial abuse and there is a quick response when it happens. But everyone is free to abuse him and justify their misconduct in the name of fandom, on sites that have his name on it.
    Helena may be right that ratings is a factor. Michael said it : good news doesnt sell.
    If it goes on, in a year nothing will be left of the instant positive feeling we from Michaels generation used to get, just hearing his name. And many more will move on.

    Like

  76. Djacquuleen permalink
    April 30, 2013 5:10 am

    I am following https://www.facebook.com/THISISINX?ref=stream&hc_location=stream for news without the noise.

    Much love and respect to you Helena.❤

    Like

  77. Linda permalink
    April 30, 2013 12:26 am

    I cannot believe all the negative comments on every article about this trial about Michael’s mother. I’ve been wondering, where are the fans? Where are the people that know what happened between Michael and AEG? I’ve waited for this part of justice for so long. Now that it’s finally here, all I’m seeing is negative comments, except on this site. Now I’m understanding that the fans are actually undermining the truth and they are going to influence the outcome of this trial if they don’t change their tune.

    Catherine want’s and deserves justice, like we all do, and how else are we going to get that? It’s rare that I believe in suing for anything, but if this is what it takes to get to the truth I’m all for it, and right now I don’t see any other way to get to that truth.

    We’re not off to a good start. The biggest problem is it is a closed court. I don’t want to have to rely on the stinking media to give me the details. How can we really know what’s going on in there?

    Like

  78. April 29, 2013 6:16 pm

    Two words – Bravo Helena!

    Like

  79. April 29, 2013 3:39 pm

    “The spirit that the owners, operators and their website staff are actively promoting among the MJ fan base is reprehensible, shameful, and perverted. They’ve taught a new generation of fans that hating is a completely acceptable and normal way to be a Michael Jackson fan. For this view alone all of them belong in a prison cell next to Conrad Murray. So how do I define ‘Michaeling’? It should always be a positive experience that supports his legacy of talent, creative genius, celebrates his collaborators, and lovingly stands by his family. This kind of neighborly, loving support draws us closer together as loyal friends. That’s the kind of fan I want to be, because that reflects the real personality of The King.” – Martin Mendez Host of ‘Mornings With Michael’ (vaughnlive.tv)

    Martin, great words of wisdom.

    And thank you very much for your assessment of the present state of affairs at the MJJCommunity. I think many of us learned a lot. Actually I did not know even the simplest thing that it is owned by one person – Gary Taylor and that the people there are evidently hired personnel (?). Nothing wrong about it as they have a big audience and cannot depend on volunteers, but somehow it gave me a new understanding of the situation.

    So it is the ratings again… The same old familiar problem that ruined so many good projects… No wonder my interaction with the people there reminded me of Topix – the style is the same, and though they are not that bad yet they are going in the same direction.

    I did notice that they mention Michael as a matter of ritual – just use a couple of phrases and passwords for marking themselves as “fans” and then go ahead with their own agenda and what is really on their minds.

    Well, I may be an impossible idealist, but since there was a time when they were normal Michael’s supporters all is not lost yet. If we lose these people to Greed and Hate it will be the worst they may happen to Michael’s fans. After all the Bible told us to snatch people from fire, didn’t it? So it is at least worth trying.

    I wouldn’t give up on them. If in their race for winning they have lost the right track we can always talk to them – to the admins, the owner, whoever. And remind them that Michael was different and that there is no need to bring in these tabloid sneers, spice and pepper into the community. With the media around us we have enough of it even without them. We are not coming there to listen to more hate. We want to find a home where we can embrace each other. And if Michael leaves the place there will be no need to go there at all.

    I would say it right in their faces. It would be only for their and our common good.

    Like

  80. April 29, 2013 1:52 pm

    Helena,
    The MJJCommunity.com website I fondly remember existed in 2009. It was the daily home for a lot of us who needed comfort, consoling, and emotional support after MJ died. What it’s become 4 years later is far different from the friendly, supportive and positive place it once was. Gary Taylor’s entire team of administrators, moderators and news agents now proudly preach negativity, controversy and hate against the very people that helped create the legend known as Michael Jackson. We find daily attacks on Katherine, Joe, the siblings, Sony/CBS, Mr. Branca, Mr. McClain, everyone who ever collaborated with MJ, and now even his children are the subject of their hate. What’s their motive? It seems just to perpetuate the drama surrounding the MJ family and empire, after all hate and controversy sells a lot better than love on the web (and sells more books to be sure). The more mouse clicks at Mr. Taylor’s website the longer he can claim he’s the #1 MJ fansite and charge higher rates to advertise on his pages. The fact is it’s highly competitive among fan web forums and blogs, and if you haven’t noticed, all the popular MJ sites are taking the same approach as mjjcommunity.com. The bottom line is that’s theirs is a winning strategy. So as a matter of personal choice I’ve disassociated myself from Taylor’s and all these other sites that have become nothing more than slanderous online tabloids who thrive and revel in the drama seen in a KJ vs. AEG legal case. The spirit that the owners, operators and their website staff are actively promoting among the MJ fan base is reprehensible, shameful, and perverted. They’ve taught a new generation of fans that hating is a completely acceptable and normal way to be a Michael Jackson fan. For this view alone all of them belong in a prison cell next to Conrad Murray. So how do I define ‘Michaeling’? It should always be a positive experience that supports his legacy of talent, creative genius, celebrates his collaborators, and lovingly stands by his family. This kind of neighborly, loving support draws us closer together as loyal friends. That’s the kind of fan I want to be, because that reflects the real personality of The King.

    Martin Mendez
    Host of ‘Mornings With Michael’ (vaughnlive.tv)

    Like

  81. April 29, 2013 1:50 pm

    Sorry guys, but I don’t understand why these two of my comments went over to the top and got stuck there. It is probably because I changed the blog settings to Central Standard Time and as a result of it these two comments are now timed in the future. LOL

    Okay, I’ve managed to edit the time. Let the future become today!

    * * *

    What you are advocating here is an abuse of U.S. legal system. Let me give you two examples:

    “You lend $5000 under a promissory note to a friend, because he wants to start a new business and promises to pay you back as soon as the business takes off. Then you start realizing that your friend is dragging his feet and not putting enough heart and effort in making the business successful, and you realize it may not pay back after all. So you start pushing your friend to work on this business more, because its success is in your mutual interest. Your friend feels bad under pressure, gets drunk and dies in an accident. Are you liable for his death just because you wanted your money to be repaid and tried to make him work harder? No. In the same way AEG is not liable for Michael’s death just because they put a pressure on him.” – Moorinen

    The example is inaccurate in two of its points:
    – “You realize it may not back after all” does not apply to this case.
    – And you are not allowed to “start pushing your friend to work on this business more”.

    1) The $5000 you’ve given to your friend are fully backed up by all your friend’s assets. Even if he declares bankruptcy he will still have to pay. It is specifically stated in the promissory note you have (at least Michael’s promissory note to AEG did state it).

    This paper is a kind of a general power of attorney for you because if he does not repay you will assume full ownership of your friend’s company and can carry out all operations in his name as regards his other assets (for example those hidden in some trusts or other countries, etc.).

    This gives you so much confidence that your $5000 are well guaranteed against all trouble that you can relax forever after and never mind how your friend is doing his part of business.

    2) The fact that it is your common business does not change anything.

    If your friend were a pauper you could be afraid that the things he owns would not cover the first $5000 you gave him and the next $30,000 you spent on your joint business. Now he owes you $35,000 all in all because he is to repay you the whole sum.

    This is surprising because real friends share expenses while here you want only your friend to pay all the costs on your joint business, however this is another story.

    But the most crucial thing is that what your friend owns is so valuable that in case he does not pay you back the whole $35,000 you will get much, much more. Hundreds thousands dollars. Probably millions. And this variant will not be even so bad for you. Not bad at all.

    3) The fact that you gave your friend $35,000 does not allow you to interfere in the way he is planning to return you this money.

    If you go to his house every day and tell him that “he is lazy”, insist on his doing what you tell him to, if you prevent him from going to places he wants to visit or if you make him even threatening calls, you are only creating obstacles for your friend and hinder him in his job.

    And you simply have no right for it. It is nowhere in your agreement with a friend and he has the perfect right to tell you to mind your own business and not interfere in the way he does his.

    He can also tell you that your worries are useless. If he does not do his job well, everything he owns will be yours anyway, so for the time being just leave him alone and don’t get in the way.

    In fact he can even complain that you are preventing him from doing his job right. Or for example, his relatives can complain that you were a big nuisance and created unnecessary problems.

    Like

  82. April 29, 2013 1:42 pm

    “I don’t know if you read comments on MJJC anymore, so I’ll copy my response to you here.” – Morinen

    Morinen, I cannot either read or write and will appreciate it very much if you inform the readers of the MJJ Community forum that I don’t answer them not because I have nothing to say but because I am deprived of the chance.

    You are asking a friend to drive to a store and buy a couple of things for you. On his way to the store your friend hits and kills a pedestrian. Are you liable for this person’s death because your friend caused it while running errands for you? Obviously not. In the same way as AEG is not liable for Michael’s death even though Murray may have caused it while doing emails for them.

    Your example is inaccurate. It would apply only in case Murray went to his clinic and accidentally killed one of the patients there. No connection to AEG.

    But over here AEG is connected both to Murray and to the “pedestrian” he killed.

    1) AEG agreed to hire Murray for this person so that he should take care of him. He was to perform only those services which AEG approved of, and nothing else, so they were to check up on him to make sure he did not deviate. But they did not and he ran wild.
    They were to supply him with the equipment and assistant he asked for, but failed to.
    They also distracted Murray from his job by asking him to get documents from the “pedestrian” for the insurance, etc. and guided him in other ways.

    2) On the other hand they were tied to the “pedestrian” too. They had certain obligations towards him (best possible organization of the show) but they were rather slow. He asked them to arrange 10 dates and they arranged 50. They had a big dispute. He was extremely nervous.
    His problem everyone knew about (insomnia) was aggravated. AEG saw and heard signals from everywhere that the situation they themselves created for him was getting worse. But they did not care and even suggested to others that they should not interfere – his doctor said he was okay, and he knows best, so don’t play amateur doctors here.
    The doctor was indeed assuring them of it, but they did not check up on him.

    So given the above the accurate example would be as follows:

    The “pedestrian” was not a chance person to you. You knew him and hired your friend to take care of him. You said you would check on your friend how well he takes care of the pedestrian, but you never did. Your friend also said he needed some help and you promised to provide it but did not.

    Your friend was to fulfill your requests and not the requests of the pedestrian. So you give your friend a task to go shopping and he does, taking the pedestrian by the hand. When he does shopping for you he does not look what the pedestrian is doing – and he is crossing the street at the red light and gets killed.

    The follow-up investigation finds out that the pedestrian’s mind was confused because your friend gave him some medicine. You are surprised – you never expected it of your friend whom you hired. Others told you before that the person’s mind is confused but you thought your friend’s actions were always immaculate but never really checked (though you should have).

    The investigators also find that your friend was going on your errand when he left the pedestrian alone. Your friend says it was more important than looking at the pedestrian and refers to the contract under which you hired him. It says he is to fulfill your requests and not the pedestrian’s.

    Everyone around disagrees, because no shopping can be compared to a person’s life, but your friend says it was so much urgency that he simply forgot about the person in his care. He was afraid that you would not pay the money you promised him.

    The investigators also find that the pedestrian’s mind was confused because he was extremely nervous due to a scandal you had had with him one of the previous nights. They also find that the last four months of his life he had been living under much stress due to a big earlier conflict he had with you. He was stressed out and asked your friend for some medicine to calm down. He did and it is due to his confused mind that the pedestrian started crossing the road at the red light and was killed.

    So you hired your friend, you were to check on him but never did, others told you that the person in your friend’s care was not okay, but you did not mind because it was due to you that he was so nervous, and the person died when your friend was not looking as he was going on your errand – and now you say you have nothing to do with it?

    Like

  83. April 29, 2013 1:17 pm

    Thank you once again from the bottom of my heart❤ – OnlyJustice4MJ

    Thank YOU! I’ve also joined your prayer. Actually I am in constant prayer for the truth to win, but doing it together is special.

    https://twitter.com/search?q=%23PowerPrayer4MJ&src=hash

    Like

  84. OnlyJustice4MJ permalink
    April 29, 2013 11:14 am

    Hi Helena

    Thank you for your response.

    Yes the World Power Prayer for Michael, his children and his family is in a little less than 2 hours.
    I will let everyone know you too are joining in our prayers. Thank you.

    I have also shared your link to your blog and it has for the past few hours been flooding timelines on twitter and facebook.

    There are so many fans who feel the same way and are grateful for your blog to expose the sad reality of what has become of Michael’s fan base.

    Thank you once again from the bottom of my heart❤

    Like

  85. April 29, 2013 11:03 am

    This info is from the former,Ihave to put it this way as much has disappeared ,wikileaks,
    Thomas Barrack of ColonyCapital is behind everything that happened to Michael Jackson.
    Remember Thome Thome was working for them. They were at that time also involved with African oil.And they were keeping an eye on Michael as a distressed asset.,Barracks specialty.

    Like

  86. April 29, 2013 10:54 am

    There is almost no knowledge re Thome Thome. A very secretive man.But I found something,in french which I dont know.The little I did understand seemed interesting.
    So anybody who knows at least some french here is the address.www.Re.mysterieux
    Thome Thome-MJFrance Forum.-It was a long article ,march 6th 2013.
    A transltion would be nice,but a short abstact will do.

    Like

  87. April 29, 2013 10:50 am

    “AEG cannot be tried with criminal negligence so they have to be tried for financial damages- it’s not about money but is the families’ only option. For those that don’t support the lawsuit – what is the problem, AEG was negligent in Michael’s death as well. Part of the state’s case against Murray was that he did not have the proper monitoring equipment.” – TatumMarie

    AEG was to supply the equipment and help of the assistant but provided none. Murray’s request for an assistant was understandable – if Michael could not sleep, Murray could not sleep either and was to sleep in the daytime. But if he was to accompany MJ to rehearsals this was a problem. I can’t imagine Murray not saying a word about Michael’s insomnia to AEG when he was explaining to them the need for an assistant. One goes with the other.

    AEG must have known about Michael’s insomnia long time ago – at least from Gongaware who worked with Michael before, and from Murray himself.

    The attitude of some fans amazes me – they don’t support the lawsuit because it “sullies Michael’s image” but they don’t give a damn that AEG provided no equipment and no assistant both of which could have saved Michael’s life!

    Is Michael’s image more important to them than Michael’s life?

    Like

  88. April 29, 2013 10:29 am

    “it says they don’t have any evidence which shows AEG is responsible for Michael’s death.so that is why they don’t support the law suit. I will try to find you the link.” – Tina

    Well, this is a very cautious statement. In a similar way they could have also said they were not familiar with the materials of the case and are not ready to pass judgment. However they do not accuse Katherine either and refrain from loud statements or supporting the other side in the case. They simply removed themselves from it.

    If you are able to find the link please do. In matters like these every word counts and it would be very interesting to see the concrete words and the context (if possible). Previously we were sent a story containing these words but again it was not the original.

    Like

  89. April 29, 2013 10:27 am

    Whether Michael accepted the offer or didn’t want to, he was still well enough to deliver those shows. It seems to me that when he made certain decisions he was in fact well enough to make them. During that last month he became ill, and AEG kept pushing.

    AEG cannot be tried with criminal negligence so they have to be tried for financial damages- it’s not about money but is the families’ only option. For those that don’t support the lawsuit – what is the problem, AEG was negligent in Michael’s death as well. Part of the state’s case against Murray was that he did not have the proper monitoring equipment. Who was obligated to provide him with that wasn’t it AEG? What about the emails from Phillips expressing concern about Michael’s health that were ignored?

    It’s sad that because it is Katherine Jackson some fans are writing this off as greed. What do we have the option to do if a company or establishment doesn’t hold up to their contractual agreements? Would you not sue especially since the results were disastrous?

    Like

  90. April 29, 2013 10:19 am

    We have Worldwide Power Prayer for Michael, his children and his family everyday during the trial. Everyone is welcome to join us https://twitter.com/OnlyJustice4MJ at 1pm CST – OnlyJustice4MJ

    OnlyJusticeforMJ, thank you very much. I will gladly join. I didn’t know which time Central Standard Time is, so I found this site which shows the current CST time: http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/central-time/

    This blog has also been adjusted to this time now for better guidance (in my place it is 7:15 pm).

    Please know that even if I don’t go to your twitter account I will still be part of the prayer. So today the prayer will be in 2 hours and 45 min if my calculations are right.

    God help the truth to win.

    Like

  91. Tina permalink
    April 29, 2013 5:26 pm

    Helena, I know your stance about the estate. I am your long time reader🙂 I read the statement a while ago and it says they don’t have any evidence which shows AEG is responsible for Michael’s death.so that is why they don’t support the law suit. I will try to find you the link.

    Like

  92. April 29, 2013 5:17 pm

    “IMO one thing motivated these fans to act like this ,it is the statement from the estate which says they don’t support this law suit .I think that is why most of the fans is acting like this and I don’t think these fans are Michael’s fans. it seems they are the fans of the estate lawyers.”

    Tina, I myself praised the Estate for what they were doing for Michael and support them in their efforts to rebuild his fortune, therefore it is very interesting to me what they say. But I need the text. If you or anyone have the text of that statement please send us the link. I want to see what arguments the Estate gives for their position and whether this news is true at all.

    P.S. You surprised me by saying that many Michael’s fans are fans of the Estate. I was of a different impression, but things have probably changed, so I really don’t know.

    And thank you for your kind words to me.

    Like

  93. Tina permalink
    April 29, 2013 4:53 pm

    Helena,This is one of your silent readers.I don’t know how to thank you about this post of yours. I really admire your strength and IMO your posts are not driven by the hate of the Jackson family or the estate it is based on facts and love for Michael and that is why I really enjoy most of your posts.

    I couldn’t stand the discussion of the fans these days. There is a lot of mean words which is being thrown on Mrs. Jackson including on twitter Greedy is the easiest one which is been said again and again I have read more than that and it is disgusting.

    IMO one thing motivated these fans to act like this ,it is the statement from the estate which says they don’t support this law suit .I think that is why most of the fans is acting like this and I don’t think these fans are Michael’s fans. it seems they are the fans of the estate lawyers. If that statement was in support of this law suit, we wouldn’t be able to hear this uproar.

    Again thank you for this post and not going with the flow. God bless you and God help Katerine and the children in this difficult time.

    Like

  94. April 29, 2013 4:32 pm

    “Now you are advocating to use that to “punish” AEG for what they are not legally liable for – for Michael’s death. In other words, to use U.S. justice system for Katherine’s and your personal vendetta.” – morinen

    I have no personal vendetta against AEG. In fact I even like the face of Philip Anschutz. He seems to me a rather decent-looking person. I looked up his background and found that he is of Russian descent (same as you and me). It will never cease to amaze me why he can call himself a devout Christian and do things like those done to Michael.

    You have to realize that most of Michael Jackson fans care only about Michael Jackson. Now that he is gone, they care only about his name, his image, his legacy and place in history, about what people will think of him in future.

    This is very nice if this is true. However fans have to make a choice what they like best:

    – the image which may be tarnished by the media anyway (when someone like Andrian McManus pops up again) and letting go the company that caused Michael’s death
    OR
    – the image that may be tarnished (or may be not) and making the company that caused Michael’s death pay for it.

    To me the choice is obvious. I won’t decorate Michael’s grave with extra flowers and invite the giant that suffocated him to make a beautiful speech at his grave.

    I object to the grave itself and would prefer Michael alive.

    If this is not possible I will go after the giant instead of inviting him to a dance on Michael’s remains.

    Why I know that the giant is to blame? Because I’ve seen its contract and know what a beast we are fighting. This contract is the worst evidence against themselves. There will be a time when Michael’s fans study it too and I hope they will be ashamed that they wanted this giant to get away with what it already did (and wanted to do) to Michael.

    Michael died to AEG’s gross misbehavior towards him and if fans want to let this company go it is their choice. I hope they know what they are doing.

    Like

  95. April 29, 2013 4:18 pm

    To me it’s amazing how fans are going to extremes and how easily they blame the weakest.
    I’m ashamed of the fans who again don’t show any love and understanding and go after an old lady who together with his kids was the most important person in Michael’s life.

    Morinen even talks about abuse of the US legal system. Are you serious? You say this to an MJ advocate who dedicates her life to the research of what was done to Michael Jackson, but you don’t talk about all the abuse of the legal system by those who ruined MJ?

    This case is not only about legality or illegatiy of AEG’s deeds, but also about morality. Don’t you think there should be a change in this business in the way artists are used? Michael himself spoke up against it. It’s obvious that many fans, especially in America, don’t have a critical look at this “business behavior” of AEG because they regard it as normal in their country. It’s accepted because it’s the foundation of their way of life. They are used to competition and exploitation on the back of the weak, so ethics in business doesn’t seem to be an important subject. But this case could become a precedent the same way it was in Murray’s case for doctors, to create some changes.

    Of course it’s getting tough with all the media crap and I understand fans who are very concerned about the consequences in the media, but it’s nothing new. The humiliation of MJ already happened in the past, it can’t become worse. And none of all the stupid allegations now spread in the media beforehand the trial (as it always happens) will be proven in court, they will remain stupid allegations.

    Morinen also talks about the “emotional pain” of fans. Is that the most important thing? You put the emotional pain of fans above the pain of a grieving mother and grieving children who want justice? Why do fans believe all the time they possess Michael?

    It’s incredible how fans blame Katherine for the behavior of the media. Fans “will get angry at people who caused this to happen”. These “people” are his mother and his kids! It’s their decision, they are Michael’s family – not we, and they have a right to this decision. You really think fans have a right to get angry on her? Did you put yourself in the shoes of them and think about what you would have done if the victim was your son or father that died under such cirumstances? Wouldn’t you want to know the truth?

    Why are the fans going the easy way and blame the weak for what’s happening in the media? – an old lady, the victim’s mother and his children? I don’t get it! What a nonsense to say “his mother is ok with his naked photo being mocked”. To claim she is ok with this is really a smack in her eye.

    To say “He is used and abused for the sake of Katherine’s vendetta and financial prosperity” is so unfair, as Katherine is put in the same place as all of Michael’s detractors who used and abused him. It seems many fans also lost respect for Michael, otherwise they wouldn’t talk like that. I strongly believe that Michael would expect his fans to support his mother and his children. Why are there fans who cannot imagine that the primary goal of Michael’s mother is justice, not money? And how do they know in advance what she will do with the money?

    Michael’s mother was never bashed before in this way, she was always of high renown among the fans, so why now? What is wrong? Why aren’t those blamed for ugly media reports and Michael’s humiliation who are really responsible for it? Who create it?

    Well, I have too many questions why fans behave like this and I don’t know the answers. It’s just very sad. But I assume they will be very silent after the trial when we will have seen another victory for Michael as in all his legal cases. The outcome of the trial IS relevant, and if fans are not interested in a victory I don’t know why they care for his legacy at all.

    Like

  96. OnlyJustice4MJ permalink
    April 29, 2013 4:16 pm

    Dear Helena

    Thank you so much for standing up, speaking the truth and having common sense.

    I went on MJJC two years ago a couple of times and was disgusted / disturbed at the hate that is bred and cultivated within that forum against the Jackson family.

    You have described it in its mildest form.

    I too have seen fans publicly support AEG and blame Michael for his own death.

    There are many amazing fans of Michael, like yourself, who have been run out of the MJ fan base for speaking up, and I am so happy that you have the strength and will power to continue to do the same for Michael, his children and his family.

    We have Worldwide Power Prayer for Michael, his children and his family everyday during the trial. Everyone is welcome to join us https://twitter.com/OnlyJustice4MJ at 1pm CST

    Thank you once again for being an amazing fan of Michael and for standing up for the truth and plain common sense.

    Much love to you❤

    Like

  97. April 29, 2013 3:57 pm

    Reblogged this on MJJ Fan News.

    Like

  98. April 29, 2013 3:47 pm

    This makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would MJ fans support AEG Live? I, as you may remember, feel, maybe wrongly, that the legal system is part of a bigger sinister unproven establishment ‘umbrella’, wielding a big whip over AEG Live, the lawyers, the courts, the judges, the media and the police, which puts a completely different slant on proceedings. Everyone has to bow to the pressure, which is why AEG Live is muddying the water in a bid to exonerate itself. Merely my ESP (extra-sensory perception) opinion. So there is not much we can do about that, except voice our opinions and try to appeal to hearts and minds in the hope that love, truth and justice will win in the end. What else can we do? Here’s praying for a positive outcome for Katherine and the children. I would add that surely the jury should be prevented from seeing TV and newspapers as they were in the Conrad Murray trial; or is it somewhat different in a civil case? R.I.P. Michael.

    Like

  99. April 29, 2013 3:29 pm

    If somebody killed my son.. my first thougt would be to run and to buy a kalashnikov.That is why I support guncontrol. And that is why the legal system exists.I dont belong to the mafia.

    Like

  100. lynande51 permalink
    April 29, 2013 3:18 pm

    Kasey do you remember the 17 egregious deviations of the standard of care that Dr. Steven Shafer spelled out to the jury in the Murray trial? Everyone clings to the ones where he did not give CPR correctly and whether or not he called 911 as soon as he found Michael but the others are equally as important because they are all interconnected.

    The one that Dr.Shafer talk about being a written informed consent is equally as important as all the others. That proves that because of Murray’s knowledge of the use of propofol he did not inform Michael of the dangers of the drug that he was more than willing to use on him. It is a bald faced lie that he met Michael “with his own stash of propofol” because he started ordering massive amounts in April of 2009 and was ordering these massive amounts up until June 10th of 2009.

    Cherilyn Lee negates the information that Michael knew what he was doing when she relates back that he was not asking for the propofol but asked her about it and she went to find out about it. She then reported to Michael that what he was proposing was dangerous. It was not her obligation to inform Michael it was Murrays. Michael’s reply when she told him was “my doctors tell me it is safe as long as I am monitored”. Do you think he was monitored correctly by Murray and Murray was the doctor he was talking about.

    This case is different because Murray was a Doctor and his first obligation is to his patient even if what that patient wants is wrong. IF he was in fact the Doctor that was hired by AEG fo Michael he had the sole responsibility of telling Michael NO. He did no one else did. Murray did.

    AEG hired Murray supposedly at the insistance of Michael? Did they do that on so important background check that Randy Phillips eluded to in the email to Kenny Ortega? Apparently not because there are numerous things in his background that were found easily by me and the LAPD’s investigation. All it would have taken is a simple phone call or a check on his license to find these things out. Even a credit check would have done it.

    Now get down to what AEG in fact it was Randy Phillip and Paul Gongaware say about they and MURRAY thought that Klein was supplying Michael with drugs during his office visits to him and so they forbid him from seeing Klein. Why if it made a difference did Murray not stop the propofol use. As far as Katherine Jackson goes I am on her side I want to know just exactly what they did and no one knows but them and Murray.

    Like

  101. April 29, 2013 3:00 pm

    “NO ONE, not ONE fan was involved with the AEG NEGOTIATIONS” – Kasey

    Why should fans be involved in AEG negotiations? Now they have the AEG contract and if they have the desire to really look and study it they can see for themselves what a disaster AEG was planning for Michael together with Tohme.

    “why wasn’t his mother visiting, checking up on him and her grandchildren during this time..”

    Because it was the responsibility of AEG to check up on what Murray was doing and not Katherine’s. Murray was to perform the services required of him by AEG and not Michael, and they had the right (and duty) to check. They themselves insisted on it in their contract, however never did.

    “remember Joe has other women and other children/grandchildren which have nothing to do with KJ.”

    Yes, I remember it but see no connection. If someone is a womanizer it does not mean that he is not right as regards AEG and its role in his son’s death.

    “One final reply and I will not reply again.”

    You are welcome to come back any time you want.

    Like

  102. Kasey permalink
    April 29, 2013 2:42 pm

    One final reply and I will not reply again. NO ONE, not ONE fan was involved with the AEG NEGOTIATIONS, Knew how MJ lived day to day, what his routine was, how he made decisions, paid his bills, ran his business, made friendships, ended friendships, what his true relationships were with his wives, how his kids got here, his family dynamics, relationships with siblings, parents… so on and so forth.. what we knew is what MJ let us know or what we have read in tabloids, and heard in court proceedings.. Michael made poor decisions, he apparently wanted this huge comeback for his kids. It was more than he bargained for apparently and he was suffering from anxiety, stress, and lack of sleep. His body was not ready for what this entailed, he had not performed in over ten years. His mind had to be in the right place, it was not. I am saying this because he sought propofol early on from Cherlynn Lee. He continued ongoing visits to Klein’s office. He INSISTED upon his own doctor, Murray. We know all of this from the trial… aeg was fronting all the money as we read in the posted contract.. of course they had stipulations, this was a huge endeavor. You say, you don’t want to hear the words a 50 year old man is responsible for himself, well, it has nothing to do about not not being a fan and appreciating the music.. it has to do with it is absolutely true. No one held MJ hostage and hooked him up to a makeshift drip for three months night after night.. this was his idea, going backwards, bad habits and poor advice. He and he alone,, being MJ apparently was not aware of Murray’s financial plight, or maybe he was, we don’t know… they had their dirty little nightly secret and it cost MJ his life. NO jury is going to award the Jackson family money for what MJ chose to do. He had a choice. aeg is a company, they are a huge business, they could of handled things differently, but they were dealing with adults NOt children..You seen to avoid the fact that propofol is not a sleep aide, never had been and never will be.. there are medications for sleep, that are legal and do the job.. The reason fans are attacking KJ is because she and she alone is allowing all of this negative information that appeared to have been put to rest surface and start again.. Ugliness is going to come out of this trial, things we don’t need to know or want to know.. We know what happened via the trial in which Murray got as stiff of a sentence the California laws allowed. Don’t like the laws, californians need to change it.. those laws are the same ones that allow lindsey lohan to continue to laugh in the face of the california legal system. Back to MJ.. why wasn’t his mother visiting, checking up on him and her grandchildren during this time.. NOT AT ALL did that happen except for the one day they all met for the parent’s anniversary, which is a joke because they have no marriage.. they live separate lives and bond when it involves pimping Michael’s name for financial gain. remember Joe has other women and other children/grandchildren which have nothing to do with KJ.. an almost 83 year old woman wants to set up her other children because she knows when she is gone they are through ..she leaves them nothing from MJ’s estate because it reverts back to the kids.. the checks STOP, the ALLWANCE stops.. the free ride and rent is over.. so, that is the backbone of this lawsuit. she will not let her son RIP, she will allow the dirty laundry to be put out there, at the expense of the kids for money.. THAT is GREEDY and downright deplorable..No jury is going to reward Katherine Jackson anything..most people live in the real world and that is where reality guides our decisions.

    Like

  103. lynande51 permalink
    April 29, 2013 2:36 pm

    Morinen it would seem that you are forgetting one important thing or you have fallen into the AEG trap of belielving Murray’s lies. Michael was not a friend to Murray. The only people that think that are the ones that believe him.
    Murray was Michael’s private physician hired by AEG to provide medical care to Michael. He is obligated by law to provide the best care for his patient that he can give regardless of Michael’s ability to pay. He is supposed to give hs patient direction not take directions from either Michael or AEG. He took his directions from AEG that is obvious.
    Your question is: Is the employer responsible for the actions of their employee when it comes to the health and welfare of other employees? The answer is a simple Yes they are.
    http://www.nvo.com/beaulier/htmlpage/

    Like

  104. April 29, 2013 1:46 pm

    It is hard to see Michael and overwhelmed! He alone is able to know what he could or should do! Nobody was in place and can not say what he would do! What has suffered is extremely violent … leave the rest in peace!
    Helena thank you … ♥

    Like

  105. April 29, 2013 1:15 pm

    “Do we know how many sleepless nights KJ had and how often in the passed 4 year she had to comfort the children and probably the other way round.” – Sina

    Oh, none of those “fans” are talking about it. They have forgotten all of it too soon. Now it is mostly a cold, calculating approach typical of AEG managers for whom people are not human beings but distressed assets and means to generate money.

    Some fans pretend that they are grieving even more than his mother and children, which is impossible, so let us not pretend. No matter how we love Michael it is still incomparable to what his mother and children feel, and none of our tears are like theirs. No mother should ever see her child go before her time and I don’t wish anyone to know what it’s like.

    And there were also three small children lost, desperate, shocked. It must have been solely due to Katherine’s effort that the children got over their father’s death (if it is possible at all) without any excesses. It is Katherine’s great accomplishment first and foremost. God bless her and let her go further the same way.

    In her place I would also have a lot of questions to AEG even on the basis of the impressions people shared with her of those rehearsals. And people did say that AEG was taking advantage of Michael, that they were humiliating him, that he felt intimidated. If I were in her place I would also demand why AEG was treating her son that way, though it was him on whom the whole show depended on. And this even when she did not know any details of their disgraceful contract and the rest of it.

    “I commend KJ for being so determined. What world would it be if we voluntarily give up our rights,for fear of being bullied or for peoples nasty opinions.”

    She is a fantastic woman. Being so determined at her age. It is awesome. No wonder Michael was always looking up to her. May the Almighty help her.

    Like

  106. April 29, 2013 12:42 pm

    “I hope she wins big and will realise Michaels dream, the childrens hospital. Michael deserves that for his legacy..” – kaarin

    I also hope very much that she wins big and that Michael’s children take care of the money the way his father taught them to. There will surely be a children’s hospital and Paris said she would take care of Neverland. I pray for the best outcome and keep my fingers crossed.

    Like

  107. lynande51 permalink
    April 29, 2013 7:50 am

    I too am amazed at the things said by the fans about Michael’s mother and in fact some of them even here have said that Michal played a part in his own demise when he chose to use propofol for insomnia. How do you explain that Michael asked about the propofol not for it when he spoke to nurse Cherilyn Lee about it? That’s right he asked her about it not for it.
    That statement is the one that says that AEG propoganda has in fact infiltrated the fan base because it was the defense of Conrad Murray that started that particular thread of thinking.
    Allow me to correct you.

    Michael Jackson did not choose propofol for sleep, Conrad Murray chose it for him because he agreed to purchase it several times, accessed Michael’s veins and started the drip running in. Murray was solely responsible because he never told Michael that he could die from it he instead told him that it would be alright as long as someone monitored him. Michael beieved him. Murray had a responsiblity as his physician to stop it not continue to give it to him and even when he said was “weaning” him off he ordered more than he had ever ordered before. When you believe the lies that Mchael had used it for years you have not yet heard the testimony that will negate that issue.

    You have in fact fallen right into the lie that started with Murray and he started it to defend himself from his criminal act by blaming Michael..Did you know that from the very beginning he blamed Michael. The very beginning! It is no different than what AEG is doing now with the help of the tabloid media. And unknown to the fans Murray was conducting a two year long intervew that he was paid for up to and including during his trial. Doesn’t anyone recognize what they are doing. Murray did it because he had no defense for what he had done and it would seem that AEG is doing the very same thing so they must not have a defense ether.

    Now we have fans bothered by what the media is putting out there about Michael once again but where were these same fans when it was being said about him prior to the Murray criminal trial?

    I am ashamed of most of these fans because they obviously have never known or have forgotten just how much Michael loved his mother. He would never turn his back on her and would be so angry about the fans that have. He would have supported her and the kids in this lawsuit and he would find this behavior deplorable. He would be so angry with those that think they know better than his mother what he would have wanted. Katherine Jackson was sacrosanct to him, he thought she was a saint and guess what SHE is the person that he wanted more han anyone to model himself after.
    My question is when this trial is over and Katherine has proven her case and may just win how will you feel? Will you be apologizing to Katherine and the children because when you say the Jackson family Michaels children are also in that family and they probably hate what you say about their grandmother too.

    My guess is there will be no apologies form anyone to anyone because somehow this case has become more about what fan is right and what fan is wrong and has nothing whatsoever about what people in that company did to Michael.

    Like

  108. Mary Anthony permalink
    April 29, 2013 7:10 am

    Helena, Thank you for your post. I too believe that Katherine has had to go ahead with this trail if she is ever to get to the bottom of what happened and get some answers she must so desperately need. The way Michael was treated by AEG and all the others involved was unacceptable and she is unfortunately the only person who has the ability to expose their actions. I wish her love and strength to see what must be a very painful process to the end

    Like

  109. April 29, 2013 6:28 am

    Morinen, have you never heard of enslavement via indebtness. This is done purposefully in some countries.

    Like

  110. April 29, 2013 5:43 am

    Who says that Michael did not want to work to pay off his debts. And to let his children see what he does. He worked till he died. The proposal was do 10 shows, and Michael added. max 2 shows per week. So OK with Thome Thome. Just that he did not know who that man is. He did not use propofol when this agreement first was made. But this man Thome turned out to be the most clever, deviant, sinister psychopath whose business is to do really dirty things for the really big boys like T.Barrack of Colony Capital and Randy Philips et al for AEG.

    So it came to be 50 shows every second day and to continue for years if AEG so wished. Michael had to pay all production costs. Or he will lose everything, going bankrupt.

    Once he realised what this man Thome-Thome was it was too late. He was already ensnared. Just take a look back into this blog. And that man did not let go even after having been fired as Michaels manager and Michaels death. Michael became severely insomniac and desperate. Therefore the propofol. And Murray was just perfect for the purposes of some. After he got started on regular propofol anesthesia every night his health took a turn
    for the worse. Propofol has effects after anesthesia -a patient given sedation with it should never be let home unaccompanied. It was not that this was the only proposal for work he had, but psychopaths often have what is called psychopathic charm.– It was noticed by Thome, who then btw said he did not think Michael could do even 1 show, and others that his health was not what it should. So what to do to get the money anyway. They were lucky,or perhaps knew enough about Murray, a doc with ethical deficiencies too. Publicly they kept num about any health problems. The medical examination in London was also a problem. It must be noted that Thome worked for T.barrack of Colony Capital and they had been keeping an eye on Michael as a distressed asset for a year or more before he left Bahrain. It is possible that Murray also saw the children in Bahrain initially.
    By now we know what happened. And a mother is in grief and anger for her son being killed.

    I hope she wins big and will realise Michaels dream, the childrens hospital. Michael deserves that for his legacy..

    Like

  111. Julie Noel permalink
    April 29, 2013 4:43 am

    Seemingly, these “fans” all went to a seminar where they were taught some catch phrases and arguments to use against the truth. They say the same things. They continuously, contemptuously, and against all fact and reason, say that MJ was a drug addict for many years. They call his dear, old mother “greedy.” Who ran the seminars? Who paid for the donuts?

    Like

  112. Sina permalink
    April 29, 2013 4:25 am

    Here is what I posted on Ravens All for love blog. It fits very well with the subject so I will repeat it here.
    I have more fan reactions from that time I will post . They are a minute chronicle of what happened and how Michael was duped into 50 shows.

    The trial didn’t just started, it started 4 years ago but its only now that the civil case can proceed.
    Katherine has my full support and sympathy. The families need , time or means for closure or how to respond does not have to be in sync with the outside world. Our reality is not theirs. When we switch off and go back to our own families, KJ is still Michaels mother, the children are still his children and he is still missing from their lives. Do we know how many sleepless nights KJ had and how often in the passed 4 year she had to comfort the children and probably the other way round.
    I also hate the thought that Michael will again be the center of sick jokes and mud slinging.
    But let’s not turn things upside down. It is not the trial that makes haters think and act the way they do. Its human nature at its ugliest and the medias hunger for ratings.
    If AEG did nothing wrong and were the respectable company they pretended to be, why the need now to trash and ridicule Michael. Why did AEG retract their insurance claim after the email leak. Why were they negotiating with Murray about medical equipment that they didn’t deliver. Michael bares responsibility for accepting the offer without looking into the details, but he is not responsible for his death or for the dealings between Murray and AEG. AEG took advantage of a man who they knew and told had no way out.
    I commend KJ for being so determined. What world would it be if we voluntarily give up our rights,for fear of being bullied or for peoples nasty opinions.

    Murray is serving jail time and will hopefully lose his license. Why in the world would KJ be tied to this man the rest of her life and spend money on lawyers to monitor his finances. Any money he makes will probably be allowed to pay off his enormous debt and child support first before having to pay KJ a dime. Not his life will be a hell, but hers.
    Tohme is sued by the MJE executors for the bogus deals he had Michael sign, which I hope Include the AEG contract.
    AEG recouped 3 times the amount they spent on Michael. I hope they will be sentenced for what they did and have to pay accordingly.
    Michael paid the ultimate price. I wish people would stop blaming him as if he deserved to die for his mistakes.
    If his mother and children feel strong enough to go through this ordeal, bless them.
    We on the other hand have the choice to follow or not follow the trial and to read the media garbage or ignore it.

    Here are some fan reactions when 10 shows became 16, 21, 22 30….50 and fans started to worry. It was around the same time when Randy Philips was mocking Michael “no more shows Randy , no more shows”

    Reply #645 posted 03/11/09 10:55am
    LondonStyle
    Annika said:
    I wonder how many will be cancelled. 10 night seemed reasonable for his physique, but 30? Best case scenario, it’s still a huge stretch.
    Not that it affects me, I’ve got tickets for opening night!

    You lucky git…. , i’d say all nights after the 21 concert looks suspect ….as we known Prince did it ….but can Mike do more than 21 ??? can any Artist that’s the question as the 22 would be a world record…

    Reply #742 posted 03/12/09 3:33am
    leecaldon
    SquirrelMeat said:
    The new London dates are Jan/Feb.
    So where is he going in Oct/Nov/Dec….?
    Rest…or
    my bet…NY or Tokyo.

    Surely he’ll rest. I just can’t fathom how he’s physically going to be able do this. Unless half the show is just singing live with no dancing, which I would love. But I’m still greatly concerned he won’t be able to fulfil his commitments.
    Still, 45 dates is just incredible

    Like

  113. newrodrigo permalink
    April 29, 2013 4:15 am

    Well know we’ve got people believing Adrian McManus now…

    All you have to do there?
    Look at her in the past. ..admitting to making stuff up for her job’s sake because Michael was apparently threatening her…which makes no sense.
    Admitting to doing nothing regarding the child abuse she claimed to have seen. But makes it clear she went to help her evil boss when he was minutes from death.
    Stealing from her own family and her evil boss when he laid her off work.

    I could go on. But it pisses me off that people would believe somebody like her.
    She’s not even stating that Michael began taking the drugs after the accusations, because it shattered his already fragile mind.

    She’s actually one of the ones responsible for his death. Yes. She knows she lied. Lies that broke Michael.
    But guilt rarely ever gets to those people. She’s just bitter for being fired and sued.

    That doesn’t have much bearing on this topic, but I just need to state this for my own sanity. Get it off my chest, because it’s just so annoying that people will readily agree and believe that woman.

    Like

  114. April 29, 2013 4:12 am

    I don’t know if you read comments on MJJC anymore, so I’ll copy my response to you here.

    Helena,

    what you are advocating here is an abuse of U.S. legal system. Let me give you two examples:

    1) You are asking a friend to drive to a store and buy a couple of things for you. On his way to the store your friend hits and kills a pedestrian. Are you liable for this person’s death because your friend caused it while running errands for you? Obviously not. In the same way as AEG is not liable for Michael’s death even though Murray may have caused it while doing emails for them.

    2) You lend $5000 under a promissory note to a friend, because he wants to start a new business and promises to pay you back as soon as the business takes off. Then you start realizing that your friend is dragging his feet and not putting enough heart and effort in making the business successful, and you realize it may not pay back after all. So you start pushing your friend to work on this business more, because its success is in your mutual interest. Your friend feels bad under pressure, gets drunk and dies in an accident. Are you liable for his death just because you wanted your money to be repaid and tried to make him work harder? No. In the same way AEG is not liable for Michael’s death just because they put a pressure on him.

    That is why most of Katherine’s claims have been dismissed by the judge, and only negligent hiring stands. Now you are advocating to use that to “punish” AEG for what they are not legally liable for – for Michael’s death. In other words, to use U.S. justice system for Katherine’s and your personal vendetta. And you expect all other fans to support you in that. Why would they? Very few of MJ’s fans care about Jacksons’ personal vendetta.

    You have to realize that most of Michael Jackson fans care only about Michael Jackson. Now that he is gone, they care only about his name, his image, his legacy and place in history, about what people will think of him in future. I don’t know how closely you follow American and British press, but in case you haven’t seen it, since this trial started Michael has been called “a junkie” (on multiple occasions), “not the real dad” (on multiple occasions), gross photos of his burned scalp have been shopped around in tabloids, and a picture of his lifeless naked body has appeared in National Enquirer in every American grocery store (I personally had to eat in restaurants for a week and avoid shopping, to protect myself from seeing it). Not to mention comments to all these articles that general public reads, where MJ was dissed and humiliated over and over again. It causes Michael’s fans emotional pain to see this happening to him. And they WILL get angry at people who caused this to happen. All this happened ONLY because of this lawsuit brought on by Katherine and her lawyers who, on some occasions, intentionally brought up totally unrelated paternity and child molestation subjects that resulted in Michael being drugged through mud in the media again.

    Let’s remember year 1993 when Michael’s private photos were taken and the length he went to to make sure they never become public. So why is his mother now okay with his naked photos being mocked and paraded in front of the whole country? What makes her – and you – think her/your personal vendetta and probable monetary punishment for AEG justify this abuse of her son? I personally find it very egoistical to want to satisfy your personal desire for “justice” at the expense of Michael.

    I think most people here don’t really care about the outcome of this lawsuit (I certainly don’t) because for Michael it’s irrelevant. We all know he had been pressured by AEG, we all know he died of propofol administered by Murray. That’s it to the story. Whether AEG will be found guilty of negligent hiring or not, and whether Katherine gets the money or not is irrelevant, because it doesn’t change anything in Michael’s story and legacy. The only result of this lawsuit for him – regardless of its outcome – is that his reputation will be shredded once again. He is used and abused for the sake of Katherine’s vendetta and financial prosperity. He is already losing in this lawsuit every day, with every new media article, and the hearings haven’t even started yet. For Michael this lawsuit is evil. And it was brought on him by his own mother. Do you see my point? I’m not asking you to agree, but do you see it?

    If you are unable to understand this POV, then unfortunately, I think it’s a lost cause for us.

    Like

  115. Sina permalink
    April 29, 2013 3:42 am

    ‘I simply don’t believe in the premise of the lawsuit. I find the grounds of it shaky at best’

    @ Teva. The judge rulled there was enough substance to proceed.

    Like

  116. April 29, 2013 3:38 am

    “Why is his mother going after AEG?” – Alison

    The short answer would be because they killed her son by creating an impossible schedule for him. Unnecessarily hard and gruelling schedule which could be done only intentionally.

    “She and the kids are being well taken care of by Michael’s estate”

    So what? Do people sue others only due to poverty? When they cannot put the offender behind bars (due to various circumstances) they can seek justice this way. In this case it is not so important how much Katherine gets, it is important how much the offender loses. I hope they lose a trillion if they have it.

    “So once again why is his mother going after AEG.”

    Okay, once again, because they arranged “business” for him in such a way that it was humanly impossible for him to fulfil it.
    Because it went against their own contract.
    Because the contract itself was dubious as its various parts contradicted each other,and some parts were unfinished.
    Because most probably Michael was signing to 10 shows only. The first insurance paper spoke about 10 dates only.
    Because these “producers” were making Michael pay all production costs and I suspect that it was meant to be a surprise for MJ.
    Because they were threatening him that they would pull the plug (for no reason).
    Because they pushed him to perform at rehearsals though they had no right to.
    Because they disregarded his wishes and when he fired Tohme still imposed him on Michael and humiliated him by spitting on his decisions.
    Because Michael had to live the last 4 months of his life not in peace and quiet as everyone wants to, but in fear what the next day brings and how he will cope with those 38 shows every other day.
    Because…
    because….
    etc….

    “His mother needs to stop giving hand outs to her sons”

    I am not happy with the way some Jacksons behave but this “she should stop this”, “she should stop that” also look very strange to me, as I regard it is none of our business. The sum asked in the lawsuit is surprising to me, but it was calculated by Katherine’s lawyers so they must be having some reasons for it. I am interested to know which ones, because in my opinion AEG’s contract with Michael was highway robbery and he would have received next to nothing.

    Like

  117. Teva permalink
    April 29, 2013 3:11 am

    “They were brainwashed by AEG’s propaganda”. – VMJ

    I am one those fans who is not in support of this lawsuit. I am not brainwashed by AEG’s propoganda because I don’t read it. I simply don’t believe in the premise of the lawsuit. I find the grounds of it shaky at best.

    I do not say nasty things about Katherine Jackson, not because she is Michael’s mother, but because it is uncalled for and not my nature.

    Unfortunately I do believe that Michael was playing with fire using propofol to treat insomnia, and for that he did play a part in his own demise. Murray is no scapegoat, but a despicable former doctor that should have told Michael “no”. To this day he has never apologized for his actions or shown remorse.

    Like

  118. April 29, 2013 3:11 am

    “he needed his peace, his rest and his space. Because that is also what being 50 is about.” – LunaJO

    Exactly.

    “I do think he was pushed for the 50 dates and to him it was like they popped out of the hat.”

    I just need to note that the number of 50 is secondary to the schedule and the way the dates were arranged. They could have set for him even 100 shows motivating it by their general desire to spread it over three years. It would have been still a wrong thing to do but if the regimen was acceptable it would not have been that stressful.

    I think that first Michael learned of the number of shows and later of the schedule and space between the dates. And this is when the real shock came. For a 50 year old man with insomnia it is simply impossible to do 38 shows with only 1 day of rest in between the shows. Hence the need for propofol.

    And the second shock Michael must have experienced was the realization that the people around him meant him no good. He specially asked them not to, but they nevertheless did as they thought fit. These are no partners, these are bullies.

    Like

  119. April 29, 2013 2:57 am

    Sina, I changed some of the wording to make my idea clearer, then changed the title but then returned it to almost the original variant.

    Tomorrow I will think how to reword it (it is too late here) but now the only thing I want to say is that I firmly believe that our intentions, thoughts and words do change the world. The cleaner the thoughts are the cleaner the world is.

    Like

  120. Alison Maleski permalink
    April 29, 2013 2:38 am

    Is there any positiveness with any of this fiasco that is going on. Why is his mother going after AEG? She and the kids are being well taken care of by Michael’s estate. Michael is providing for them. The last I heard that the estate is worth billions. So once again why is his mother going after AEG. My thought is that she is using her portion and is passing it out to the rest of the family. If Michael wanted to support the rest of the family it would’ve been in his Will but it wasn’t. Just his mother, children and charities were in that Will. Where his mother is getting the pressure from is the rest of the family. They are the ones who think that Michael should be supporting them. NOT! His mother needs to stop giving hand outs to her sons. Michael left the group and went solo. They are the ones that are pressuring his mother and his children to pursue the case against AEG. They want their 2 cents that they think that is rightfully theirs. They think that it is owed to them and that Michael forgot where he originally came from — Jackson 5. I think his mother needs to learn how to live off of what she gets from the estate. They need to stop “living high off of the hog”. The greed has taken over all of the Jacksons (excluding Michael’s children)and they want more. What’s going to happen if they don’t win this case against AEG? I guess they will have to learn to live with what they get and leave it at that.

    Like

  121. April 29, 2013 2:26 am

    “The case is not tried by public opinion and writing or actually shouting in capital letters have no influence whatsoever”

    Sina, it is both true and wrong. True in the meaning that the decision is to be taken by the jury within the walls of the court.
    But for their verdict to be “clean” they should be isolated from society and not read or listen to any other information.
    This is hardly possible. So they will be affected by the press whether they notice it or not. And if fans add more negativity to the picture it may bias the jurors further.

    I will probably change the title and some expressions in the text, but essentially my idea will remain the same. By making choices we build the future. We don’t know to what degree each of our decisions affects the future but it does. That is why responsibility for each of our word and even thought has been stressed in ancient texts.

    Like

  122. LunaJo permalink
    April 29, 2013 2:17 am

    One word: Great!
    All those who are so quickly to say Michael was 50 and responsible for himself , are forgetting what the responsibility of Murray was as a doctor. I do think he was pushed for the 50 dates and to him it was like they popped out of the hat. He must have felt awful, being the person he was.
    He didn’t want to let anyone down.Maybe Michael was used to getting what he wanted, but only he should have been the one to decide what was best for him in order to make this comeback. And comparing his demands to what is standard for any second rang performer is nothing. He wanted to do this the best he could and in order to accomplish that, he needed his peace, his rest and his space. Because that is also what being 50 is about.

    Like

  123. Sina permalink
    April 29, 2013 2:15 am

    ‘The outcome of this case largely depends on Michael’s fans. Their influence on public opinion now has become so big that it is impossible not to notice it or disregard.”

    Wrong.
    The case is not tried by public opinion and writing or actually shouting in capital letters have no influence whatsoever .
    Justice will prevail and a jury would not want to be accused of paying lipservice to hysteria.
    This is not an incident its been going on for a very long time.
    Most people ignore it because they like to keep up the illusion that there is a
    fan comm- Unity which there is not and never has been.
    The army of love is an army of hate if you look at the rhetoric and many keep quiet for fear to be bullied, because that seems to be the modus operandi.
    It’s the same rhetoric that was used against Michael Jackson in 2005, only 10 times worse and still he prevailed . I am confident that he will again.
    Michael Jackson has nothing to do with ‘fans’ shameless conduct.
    Talk about tarnishing his legacy.

    Like

  124. April 29, 2013 1:49 am

    “He and he alone is responsible for the decisions he made.” – kasey

    Michael did not take any decisions. All business decisions were taken for him by Tohme who even bragged about it to the press:

    “We had an agreement,” Tohme continued. “I would never interfere with his creative decisions and he wouldn’t interfere with my business decisions.” http://www.today.com/id/31740617#.UUFxuBeeNEI

    As you know Michael was so intimidated by Tohme that he actually feared this person. That is why he rarely disputed with him. However in March 2009 Michael managed to fire him. Tohme did not go away as he stayed working for AEG. Without him the contract would have fallen apart – he was on every other page of it.

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  125. April 29, 2013 1:41 am

    “He signed the AEG CONTRACT, he agreed to the terms, 50 shows did not pop out of a hat like magic. Non of us were involved in the contract negotiations… NON OF US.. hearsay has been going on since his death regrding the fifty shows.. ten, then fifty… YOU were not there!!!”

    Kasey, the simple facts of the case is that Michael most probably never signed the contract as his two signatures do not match and there are grave suspicions that one is forged.

    The 50 shows did pop out of a hat like magic (only very bad one) – the biggest number the contract named was 31, and this only in case Michael’s company approved it. 50 dates were never mentioned.

    Though none of us were involved in negotiations contracts are such unique documents that it is not necessary to be present at the talks to know what’s what. Contracts are submitted to experts who are perfectly able to decide which one is valid and which one is not. Arbitration judges do the same in case of the most serious disputes.

    By the way written contracts annul all agreements made during the negotiations, so even if someone agreed about something there, the papers are the final authority to you. In short you needn’t have been there at all to know what’s what. However you need to be there when the decisions are taken.

    Michael did not take part in the business side of the negotiations. This was said by Randy Phillips at Murray’s trial.

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  126. Kasey permalink
    April 29, 2013 1:19 am

    Please don’t blast me, but: MJ was a 50 year old man who was responsible for himself, his health,his behavior*s, his business affairs, who he hired and fired, who he let into his life, his responsibility towards his three children, their well being and his committments. He was not a novice to propofol for sleep, anxiety medications, pain meds and alchol. Sure he was a SUPERSTAR, one of a kind who could put words to music, poems, writing and do magic with his feet and gestures.. BUT, he relied upon the wrong things to make him feel better, look better and sleep.. Michael made these decisions. He signed the AEG CONTRACT, he agreed to the terms, 50 shows did not pop out of a hat like magic. Non of us were involved in the contract negotiations… NON OF US.. hearsay has been going on since his death regrding the fifty shows.. ten, then fifty… YOU were not there!!! Michael over played his hand and this final time, what he sought out from Murray took his life.. BIZZARE, yes and walgreen said.. Michael was used to getting what he wanted,anyway, anyhow, anytime.. He and he alone is responsible for the decisions he made.. and Murray was one of them. NO jury is going to award the Jackson family a penny, nickel, dime, NOTHING.. they are greedy and will go to no means tarnishing his legacy to continue to make money off of his corpse.. That is why what you are reading is negative..

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  1. Part 6/ deel 6 Dutch/ nederlandse vertaling, pre-trial on MJJC | justiceandtruth4mj

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