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News summary of week 15 at the AEG trial. A word about AEG’s strategy

August 12, 2013

Here is a summary of week 15 at the AEG trial based on the ABC tweets.

Monday August 5, 2013. DAY 62

LaPerruqueOn Monday August 5, 2013 Michael LaPerruque, MJ’s chief of security and a former LAPD deputy sheriff  continued his testimony (the first part was on Thursday August 1).

He is so great a guy in Michael Jackson’s life that needs a separate post, so now I will not say much – just a couple of words:

  • LaPerruque was Michael’s head of security during one of the most difficult periods of his life – in 2001-2004. The year 2001 was a battle for the Invincible album and 2002-2004 were connected with Bashir and Arvizos’ allegations.
  • With his 22,5 years of experience as a policeman LaPerruque says it pointblank that Michael was innocent and if he had ever had a single doubt he would have been the first to put handcuffs on his hands.
  • He said that Michael took the false accusations very hard and he often saw him cry.
  •  Despite approximately 30 times he heard and saw Michael having slurred speech within the 3 years of work for him, he never saw any drugs, never saw any IV stands though he had unrestricted access to his room, had the key and could enter at any time.
  • He also said that the slurred speech could be due to Michael taking sleeping pills for the night, and he made a supposition that on the 15 occasions Michael summoned him to his room at night it looked like he was lonely and simply wanted someone to talk to.
  • LaPerruque’s way of handling Michael’s problems was very gentle and Michael appreciated it very much.
  • He said Michael worked very, very hard to fight his dependency on prescription medication. They never discussed it, but despite that Michael saw it necessary to inform him of the progress he was making in beating the dependency – at some point without a single question asked he reported to LaPerruque that he was clear and determined to stay that way.
  • Their communication was very interesting – they understood each other almost without words. LaPerruque said they went through different times together but he loved Michael very much. When Michael arrived from Ireland and called him to work for him again he dropped a prestigious job with the Los Angeles Times and went back. His second period of work for Michael was 2007 until beginning of 2008. During all this time he never saw Michael under the influence of any medication and never saw Murray.

Here is the very short of what he said on his second day of testimony on Monday, August 5:

Monday August 5, 2013 DAY 62

Hello from the courthouse in downtown LA. Day 62 of Jackson family versus AEG trial — Week 15 — is currently underway.

Michael LaPerruque, Michael Jackson’s former head of security, resumed testifying. Jackson’s atty, Deborah Chang, did the cross examination.

Katherine Jackson is present in court, wearing a long jacket in a green and pink water color print of tulips.

LaPerruque said 2001-2004 were very difficult years for Michael Jackson. They were also very busy years.

MJ was recording “You Rock My World” single and shooting a short film at the Universal Studios when LaPerruque began working for the artist.

Change showed clip of “You Rock My World” with Marlon Brando and Chris Tucker and MJ. The single became part of “Invincible” album.

LaPerruque was present when the song was recorded.

In 2002, LaPerruque said Blanket was born. MJ was very excited about being dad again.

LaPerruque went to New York with MJ to be at the Apolo Theater with President Bill Clinton to encourage people to register to vote.

Chang showed clip of President Clinton introducing MJ to the crowd.

She also showed the 2003 American Bandstand 50th anniversary in Pasadena and MJ’s cameo in “Man In Black 2” in 2002.

Chang: Did MJ have a good sense of humor, including about himself?

LaPerruque: Yes

Chang asked about MJ passing out in Florida and his children called 911. LaPerruque said he doesn’t know what caused him to go unconscious.

LaPerruque said paramedics are more prepared than him, as former sheriff’s deputy, to assess a patient.

LaPerruque never saw the paramedics report. They did not take the MJ to the hospital.

Chang asked if there was a mention of low blood sugar in the report. Defendant’s attorney objected based on hearsay and judge sustained it.

LaPerruque said it was hot and humid that day in Orlando and he does not know when was the last time MJ ate or drank anything.

The head security never saw drugs in MJ’s room.

I never saw the doctors actually treating Mr. Jackson, LaPerruque said. He said he only took MJ to doctor’s office and would wait outside.

Chang: Did you ever raise concerns to Dr. Farshchian you thought he overprescribed medication?

LaPerruque: Yes

There seemed to have been a social relationship between Dr. Farshchian and Michael Jackson, LaPerruque said.

Chang: From 2001-2004 went through a lot of pain, stress and anxiety?

Objection, vague. Sustained.

LaPerruque was never aware of the kind of treatment necessary to treat MJ’s vitiligo and burned scalp.

In 2007 – 2008 LaPerruque worked back with MJ. He had never heard about Dr. Murray.

Chang: Would it be fair to say that throughout the years you worked for MJ you never saw him overdose?

LaPerruque: Yes

LaPerruque raised his concerns with Dr. Farshchian, Dr. Slavitch in San Francisco and Grace Rwamba.

At one point, LaPerruque and Rwamba had a system to try to stop doctors to overprescribe drugs to MJ.

Chang: You tried to protect Mr. Jackson, right?

LaPerruque: Yes

Chang: Have you ever seen him with terrible case of chills?

LaPerruque: No

Chang: Have you ever seen an alarming weight loss?

LaPerruque: No

Change: Have you ever heard people complain they could see his heart beating through his chest?

LaPerruque: No

Chang: Have you ever seen MJ lost, paranoid?

LaPerruque: No

Chang: Did you ever hear MJ saying that God was talking to him?

LaPerruque: No

Chang asked if LaPerruque saw those symptoms, what would he have done.

I’d have been very concerned and if I thought it was life-threatening I’d have taken him to the hospital, LaPerruque said.

Randy Jackson was by himself when he arrived at Neverland by helicopter. He did have a pilot, though, LaPerruque clarified.

Chang: Did you ever hear Randy Jackson speak about an intervention?

LaPerruque: No.

Chang: Did you ever hear the word intervention that day?

LaPerruque: No.

Chang: Did you ever know there was an intervention?

LaPerruque: No.

After 2004, LaPerruque didn’t see MJ on a day-to-day basis except for 2005 during the criminal trial. He never saw MJ in 2006 and early 2007

MJ was acquitted of all child molestation charges and left the country after the verdict.

Rwamba contacted LaPerruque to go back to work for MJ. He said he wouldn’t have jeopardize his job at the time if he thought MJ was on drugs

LaPerruque never observed any problems in 2007 with MJ being under the influence of prescription drugs.

Chang: Do you have any idea who was in charge of MJ’s finances in 2007?

LaPerruque: Raymon Bain

The head security said he learned Bain became MJ’s manager in 2006. She was the CEO/president of MJJ Productions. She signed his contract.

Chang asked if LaPerruque noticed there was a transition with Bain’s position at the time he wasn’t paid. He said he didn’t know.

LaPerruque said he wasn’t aware of MJ’s worth and/or debt at that point. He received call from Bain said MJ would not be needing security.

LaPerruque said Janet Jackson hired him and other personnel to work at the May 14, 2009 event, which was her parents’ anniversary.

The event took place at Chakra Indian restaurant in Beverly Hills. That was the last time LaPerruque saw MJ, a month prior to his death.

Chang showed picture of MJ on June 2009.

Chang: He did not look anything like this, correct?

LaPerruque: Correct.

Chang: If he had you’d have been alarmed?

LaPerruque: Yes

Chang: Was he a kind and gentle person?

LaPerruque: Yes

The fact that MJ was one of the most famous artists in the world didn’t change his way of being humble, LaPerruque said.

Chang asked if LaPerruque knew MJ gave thousands of dollars to United Way. He said yes.

LaPerruque told the jury there was a time where MJ asked him to go to Toys R Us to buy as many presents he could.

He said MJ wanted to give the toys to the children at the Women Shelter in Hollywood, Florida.

He said MJ spent thousands of dollars there, and MJ decided to decline his appearance because he didn’t want it to become a media circus.

LaPerruque said MJ learned with his mother to give money to the poor.

We went and donated the toys, LaPerruque said.

C: Did she love him?

LaPerruque: Yes

Chang: Based on your observations and the things he told you, did he love his mother?

LP: Yes

LaPerruque described MJ’s relationship with his children as excellent. “It was a very loving relationship,” he said.

LaPerruque: They wanted to be with their father, I think MJ was the happiest when we was with his children.

He said MJ wanted them to really want something and appreciate what they had.

MJ would restrict his children to one present and one present only when they went to a toy store, LaPerruque testified.

MJ’s intention was for the kids to really want something and appreciate what they had, LaPerruque explained.

LaPerruque: Not only that, he pushed them toward educational type of toys that they could’ve learned from.

He wanted to be the best father ever, LaPerruque testified.

One of the things LaPerruque remembers the most about Michael Jackson is the fact that MJ was always kind and gentle with his children.

The 2001-2004 period was the time MJ was trying to quit addiction to drug use, wanted his family away from Neverland, LaPerruque said.

For the parents’ 60th anniversary party, the restaurant was closed for Janet Jackson and the party members.

LaPerruque: In my course of employment with Mr. Jackson we’d have a room for him for down time also called green room.

LaPerruque made sure the room was set for MJ upon arrival. They first saw each other in the main room but talked in the private room.

Chang: A family member come to the ranch on one occasion, right?

LaPerruque: Yes.

Chang: Was MJ always able to perform and complete his functions?

LaPerruque: Yes

Chang: If there was ever a time he could not get up on stage to perform, that would’ve been a concern for you?

LaPerruque: Yes.

LaPerruque is then excused. Eric Briggs returned to the stand to conclude his testimony from last week.

So next comes Eric Briggs again as if we didn’t have enough of him during those many days of his testimony for AEG. I am absolutely unwilling to repeat any more of Briggs’ lies here, so let me explain instead my understanding of where we are with AEG at the moment. All of it will be about MJ’s health and his earning potential which is Briggs is supposed to estimate at the trial.

AEG’S OFFICIAL VERSION is that all the time they observed Michael he was healthy, vigorous and alert, and this why they planned for him 186 shows.

This was Gongaware’s own number used by the Plaintiffs’ expert Erk to estimate Michael’s earning potential (186 shows x $108 ticket price x  number of seats = $1,1 bln  plus the cost of merchandise and endorsement deals. Total: $1,5 bln).

To explain why AEG were planning this outrageous number of shows AEG had to say that Michael was healthy.

February 2009

February 2009

But now that they are in the danger of losing a billion they are keen to prove the opposite – that MJ could not do all those shows, was ill, his life expectancy was short and 186 shows were ruled out and and even 50 shows were under a big question mark.

The reason why they planned 186 shows for so ill a man is that he had a “dark secret”, was an “addict” and the poor AEG did not know and this situation took them completely unawares.

This explains why the AEG bosses officially “never heard” of Michael’s dependency, never knew, never witnessed, never saw and even Gongaware learned of the drugs only from a TV announcement though he went with Michael on the Dangerous tour when the situation was at its worst.

Randy Phillips “didn’t know” either, but staged an intervention for Michael in the middle of June 2009, only “it wasn’t drugs” but the need for some protein cocktails or whatever. How could we even imagine that AEG knew that Michael could be unwell? Didn’t we know that he was perfectly healthy until the day he died?

However my understanding is that in contrast to the sleek and bright AEG’s official version, already in autumn 2008 they knew that Michael was very weak. It was his temporary condition due to a heavy blow delivered to him by Barrack and Tohme and threats that they would be “presiding on a funeral” if he didn’t work and didn’t enter into an agreement with AEG.

AEG and the two other parties in this trio took full advantage of Michael’s then state. They planned 186 shows which were to bring them billions, especially if tickets were sold on the secondary market. 50 shows were only the beginning and they wanted even more and if it were not for Michael who put a stop to their mad sale of tickets in March 2009 by constantly calling Randy and saying “No more shows please, no more shows”, they would have sold 100 or even 200 shows in London alone, leaving Michael to deal with all the consequences of what they did.

March 14, 2009  What can be his weight here?

March 14, 2009
What can be his weight here?

But even when setting those 50 shows they knew that Michael was frail. The picture dated March 14, 2009 does not leave doubt that Michael looked extremely thin and insecure then, and it was impossible for AEG and Tohme not to see it. No, they did see it, but completely neglected it, because the idea was to grab as much as possible leaving Michael to take care of the rest.

However Michael’s condition changed already in April 2009 when due to his incredible willpower, determination to do the concerts, phenomenal perseverance and the great boost of energy he got from his fans he rose from ashes again and overcame the situation.

For him those concerts were for real and he was determined to make them a success. For AEG they were most probably not – they never thought he would make them, hence all those numerous reservations they made in their contract for getting his assets in case of cancellations.

So AEG knew that Michael was in a rather frail state in autumn 2008/winter-spring 2009 but presented him as healthy and vigorous. He wasn’t vigorous but he wasn’t taking any drugs – he was simply depressed and deeply overwhelmed by his financial problems.

But AEG always attributed his frailty only to abusing prescription drugs though now they pretend they didn’t know.

It was impossible not to know of his past dependency. Everyone knew of it as Michael openly declared it even in a song, not to mention his earlier TV announcement in 1993. AEG, Tohme and everyone were sure that the dependency continued, only no one discussed it in the open – officially Michael was in the best of health and AEG still needed a big insurance, and for the insurance Michael was to be clean, fine and strong, both at that moment and for at least 5 years prior to it too.

However now AEG’s own mantra about Michael being perfectly healthy at all times is turning against AEG as they face the danger of paying a billion dollars. Hence their new strategy saying that only recently, from depositions of various doctors they were amazed to learn about his “drug addiction issues”, how “short his life expectancy was” and that “he wouldn’t live a week”. Poor AEG never knew it and this took them completely by surprise!

This is why Briggs is doing his best to say that Michael had only a week to live and would have died without making a dime.

But the reality is totally different. Michael was exceptionally strong and was even unusually healthy for his age of 50 as the autopsy said. And he wasn’t a drug addict – he simply had to go through unimaginable lows in his life and several times found himself on the brink of a complete catastrophe that would have broken any of us.

Any of us but him. He always managed to bounce back to normal due to his incredible willpower, determination to live a healthy way of life, a huge sense of responsibility and love for his children and a great faith in God which helped him rise from ashes even after a nearly fatal blow.

And his life expectancy was long as he had no life-threatening conditions except lack of biological sleep as both the autopsy and medical findings at this trial prove it.

And if it were not for AEG and their openly contemptuos and expoitative attitude towards him he would have done not only 50 but 200 or more concerts if he wanted to. Touring that much he did not want of course, but this is a different story.

What I mean is that if it were not for AEG Michael would have lived to be a hundred. And he was strong and healthy and was no longer dependent on drugs – though AEG thought he was, but never said it and now pretend that their eyes opened to it only five minutes ago.

But if they discovered it only recently let them please explain why they denied help to a totally drug-free person when they clearly saw that he was dying. What if all those symptoms had been a sign of diabetes, for example?

I suggest that we keep in mind all the intricacies of AEG’s chameleonic logic when reading about one more day of Briggs’ testimony on Monday August 5:

Sabrina Strong did the questioning. She asked if Briggs recorded the time worked in this case as it’s customary in the industry.

During the course of my 15 year career, this is the normal course we bill clients, Briggs responded.

Strong asked if the amount he billed had anything to do with his opinions. Briggs said no.

Briggs: I set out to evaluate the reasonable projections based on Mr. Erk’s numbers.

He said he attended Erk’s testimony, gave depositions, did extensive research to come to his conclusions and opinion.

Briggs said the first time he saw Erk’s projections was during Erk’s deposition in March. He was deposed a couple of days later.

Briggs said after his own deposition, he did additional research. He looked into the history of MJ’s tour in the US and overseas.

He also analyzed the history of any artists selling out all the shows.

Briggs said the projection was done based on a solo artist, thus he didn’t analyze MJ as part of Jacksons 5 group.

Briggs said he analyzed Erk’s projection and upon concluding it was speculative, it wasn’t for him to speculate forecast in lots of pages.

Strong asked about Brian Panish inquiring Briggs’ background in audits. “This case does not involve audit dispute,” Briggs responded.

Briggs said Erk submitted specific projection of an entertainment project that MJ would’ve potentially be part of.

What the economics of the project is is what I do everyday, evaluating risks and projecting income, Briggs explained.

Strong showed slide created by Panish. The blue bars is what has been publicly known to have occurred, Briggs said

Strong asked if the green bars are “imaginary tours” result of math problem. “Those are tours that never took place,” Briggs said.

Briggs explained Panish’s math: MJ’s average public multiplied by number of shows by other artists multiplied by Erk’s $108 tix price.

Briggs said Panish used 3 different statistics and multiply them all. “It’s just a math problem,” he said.

Strong: Looking at this, did Mr. Panish compare apples to apples?

Briggs: I don’t think so.

Briggs said 55k people multiplied by 167 shows in AC/DC tour results in over 9 million tickets, doubled what was ever associated with MJ.

Briggs said HIStory tour sold 4.5 million tickets for 82 shows, Bad also sold roughly 4.5 million tickets for 123 shows.

Briggs: Historically, his shows sold 4.5 million tickets, appreciating he sold more albums at that point and was more active.

Strong: Was that the peak of his career?

Briggs: I think so.

Briggs said Erk’s projection is “significantly in excess of MJ’s prior tours & significantly in excess of imaginary tours Panish calculated”

Strong: Could MJ have audience of 13 million on his show?

Briggs: I don’t know how you can be reasonably certain that would’ve happened.

Briggs said Gongaware email communication indicate there was a proposal to go on a worldwide tour on Sept. 26, 2008.

Briggs said there were number of words in the email that indicates to him it was a preliminary plan.

In Sept. 2008, the agreement between MJ and AEG had not been signed yet.

This is clearly in the early stages of a proposal, Briggs said.

Regarding email saying “his gross would approached half a billion dollar,” Briggs said he interprets it to be total ticket sales/merchandise

Erk’s projection was $1.56 billion, he compared.

Email says “Net to Mikey $132 million,” which Briggs explained indicates the amount AEG was expecting to have MJ net.

Briggs said Erk projected roughly $900 million net for MJ.

Briggs: There was no formal plan (for world tour), this is early proposal and Mr. Erk’s projection was entirely speculative.

Regarding shows in Japan and India, Gongaware was planning 4 shows in India. Briggs said Erk projected 60 shows in India.

Gongaware planned 8 shows in Japan plus 1 private for a total of 9 shows, versus Mr. Erk’s projection of 50 shows in Japan, Briggs said.

Briggs said he saw some headlines regarding MJ donating proceeds from a tour to charity. He said he doesn’t know if that ever happened.

Briggs said he relied on Gongaware’s testimony that MJ’s tours lost money or broke even, since the actual amount is normally confidential.

Strong: If he didn’t make money from those tours, would he donate money?

Briggs: If he didn’t make any money there would be no profit for him to donate.

Briggs reviewed Dr. Shimelman’s deposition in this case. The doctor was asked to give his best estimate of MJ’s life expectancy in June 2009

Briggs: He clearly stated that Michael Jackson’s life expectancy was 1 week as of June 2009.

Strong: What other issues did Dr. Shimelman rely upon other than MJ’s use of Propofol?

Briggs: He spoke specifically to the synergy of the drugs MJ was taking and the impact of them on the artist.

Briggs said Dr. Earley and Dr. Levounis also relied upon knowledge of history of his drugs use/manner which he took them for their opinion.

Strong: Did they rely solely on Propofol use?

Briggs: There were testimony of the synergy of the drugs, the interaction of the drugs MJ used

I don’t see how an interest for a world tour makes it reasonably certain it will happen, Briggs said.

He said there was no agreement beyond 50 shows at the time of MJ’s death. [Note: there was no agreement for 50 shows either].

Also, there’s a need to consider MJ’s history of drugs use and canceling shows, and the broad risk in the business.

Briggs said there was significant demand that exceeded expectations for the London show.

It means in London there were many people interested in seeing MJ do what he did best: perform, he explained.

But Briggs testified there was a difference between demand for seeing MJ and a company sponsoring the artist.

He said AEG was not able to secure any endorsement even after the high demand for tickets.

Briggs: It indicates there was a demand, it does not alleviate the health risk, it does not alleviate the cancellation risk.

Tom Barrack testified he did not know about Mr. Jackson’s drug use, Briggs said.

Briggs said he was asked to analyze what we have today and the key factors we know now that we didn’t know back then.

Erk specifically stated he did not take Michael Jackson’s drug use into consideration to form his opinion, Briggs testified.

There’s no reasonable basis for those projections based on the facts we know, Briggs concluded.

Outside the presence of the jury, Putnam told Judge Yvette Palazuelos that Panish threatened Briggs during the break.

Putnam said Panish told Briggs “you’re lucky we’re in court.” “I can’t have my witness threatened, you honor,” Putnam said.

Panish said the events were not quite like that. He told the judge Briggs ran him over, said “this witness ran me over”.

Judge laughed and said “I’d be surprised if anyone can run you over, Mr. Panish.” Panish said he didn’t touch or hit him.

Judge: Mr. Panish, don’t talk to any witness unless you’re talking about this case.

Panish: I didn’t threat him, he’s not afraid, he’d know if I threatened him.

In re-cross, Panish asked if Briggs was put aside to accommodate another witness who had scheduling problems. He said yes.

Panish: Is it fair to say your bills is $700 thousand now?

Briggs: That’s fair to say

Panish: And for 700k your opinion is that MJ would not have earned one dime from working to give to his children?

Briggs: Yes

Panish: In your opinion, it’s speculative MJ’d earn any money working, correct?

Briggs: Any projection of earning is speculative

Panish: You don’t determine what’s relevant in this courtroom, right? “Concerning my opinion, I determine what is relevant,” Briggs said.

Panish asked about Briggs’ interaction with MJ Estate’s lawyer.

I told you there was not a written waiver with the Estate, Briggs explained.

The Estate has different lawyers, they are not represented by Panish’s firm, Briggs said.

He said his understanding is that his partner called the Estate lawyer, Jeryll Cohen, notifying he would testify in this case.

Panish: So that statement under oath was untruthful, sir?

Briggs: That’s not correct, that was my best understanding at the time.

Panish said Briggs testified he asked the Estate for permission to be hired by AEG and testify in this case.

I now understand the substance of the call was not an authorization but a call of notification, Briggs explained.

There was a call to notify the Estate not to receive authorization from the Estate, Briggs said.

Panish: Is your testimony you called Ms. Cohen prior to signing the engagement letter with AEG’s attorneys?

Briggs: That’s not correct.

I never called Ms. Cohen to get authorization to testify, Briggs said. “No one called for authorization, they called for notification.”

Briggs said his partner, Roy Salter, called Hoffman’s company to notify Briggs was going to testify in this case.

Panish: And you are as sure of that as everything you testify to in this case, correct?

Briggs: Yes

Briggs said the general counsel at FTI took care of the issue.

Panish: Are you concerned about giving false testimony under oath?

Briggs: Of course I’m concerned of giving false testimony under oath!

There was no authorization sought, there was a notification to the Estate, Briggs said.

Briggs said he doesn’t have any record of speaking with Salter about it.

He said his best recollection is that it happened a few days prior to the firm’s engagement with AEG’s counsels.

Panish showed Briggs’ opinion. “This is the basis of my opinion that it’s speculative that the UK shows would be completed,” Briggs said.

One basis is the health of MJ, Briggs said. “As part of that basis, life expectancy is key.”

Panish: Did you write anything up about the Coroner’s testimony?

Briggs: I did not.

Panish asked if Coroner’s testified about life expectancy. “I understand the Coroner was not deposed,” Briggs said.

Therefore, he said he could not note anything about it in his notes. “I did not make reference of autopsy report,” Briggs explained.

Panish asked how many projects MJ did after the “Dangerous” tour. Briggs said it depended on how the work was classified.

Panish named several projects MJ worked, such as Luciano Pavarotti Benefit for the Children, “United We Stand” 911 benefit.

He also performed in NY with Bill Clinton, participated in movies “Man in Black 2” and “Miss Castaway,” Thriller 25 album re-released.

Briggs knew about some of the projects, not all. He said “Thriller 25” was extremely successful.

Panish: Do you know he recorded 100 new songs between 2001 and 2008 for new release?

Briggs: I did not know that.

Just to be clear, I’m giving an opinion to future earning, not about his albums, Briggs said.

Briggs explained if they had a plan, that would be in support of the O2 tour, as well as detailed budget and financing.

Financing appeared to be in place for O2 concerts, yes, Briggs said. There was also a director and approximately $34 million investment.

O2 arena’s capacity for MJ show is 15,000 average. “The contract contemplated a possibility for a world tour,” Briggs opined.

Territory is a define term in the contract, Briggs said. “Territory is defined as the world.”

Panish: Is this evidence a world tour was contemplated by MJ and AEG Live?

Briggs: Yes, this is evidence a world tour was contemplated.

Panish showed email Kathy Jorrie wrote: Nonetheless, I recommend that a background check be performed through a private investigator and/or at a minimum, that someone at AEG Live meet with Michael Jackson to make sure he understands that we are entering into a tour agreement with him that will require him to perform a worldwide tour…

Panish: You told us MJ’s drug use makes it speculative that he could do a worldwide tour and earn a dime?

Briggs: His drug use was a factor and basis for my opinion.

Briggs said endorsement companies have a long memory about the people they want to associate themselves with.

Panish asked if endorsement companies had a long-lasting memory about Tiger Wood. Briggs said athletes and very different from artists.

Panish: Tell us every endorsement deal you remember you reviewed as part of your experience.

Briggs said he doesn’t remember reviewing specific contracts for endorsement, need moment to think.

The expert did say he reviewed 50 Cent and Vitamin Water endorsement deal.

Briggs said he’s reluctant to disclose values, but knows 50 Cent received equity in the company.

Panish: It was more than $100 million, wasn’t sir?

Briggs: Not at the time, he entered into a deal thought to be much less than that.

Briggs said the deal was around $10 million, but he doesn’t recall any cash transaction. Today the deal is said to be valued $100 million.

Briggs wrote in his note:

Paul McCartney — $5 million Lexus

Rolling Stones — $10 million Citibank

Others in the $1-2 million range

Panish asked Briggs where that information came from. Briggs said he doesn’t recall, can’t give specifics.

Regarding the 4 year plan that included Australia tour, Briggs said: “I do not see how demand addresses a one week life expectancy.”

Panish addressed the judge: Your honor, I ask that Mr. Putnam stop making comments.

Judge: I already said I’m not going to babysit the two of you. Jury didn’t laugh this time around.

Panish discussed with Briggs, extensively, the chart and how Erk arrived at those numbers.

Strong, in re-re-re-direct: Did you ever dispute a world tour was contemplated?

Briggs: I did not.

He said he took that in consideration, but it didn’t alleviate some of the concerns he had.

Briggs said the general counsel of his firm cleared that there was no conflict of interest for him to testify in this case.

The Estate has not objected to my involvement in this case, Briggs said.

Panish, in re-re-re-cross: You’re sure as anything else you testified that your company contacted the Estate before signing the agreement?

Briggs: That’s correct.

Briggs is excused and judge gave a break in the afternoon session.

Isn’t it interesting to see how the story of the Estate “giving permission to testify for AEG” turned into the story of Briggs just “notifying” them about it?

May 8, 2009 Timm Woolley's email to Murray 1The same day the jury saw the video deposition of Tim Woolley. In all his emails to Murray he assured him that the work on the contract started on May 8th 2009 though Kathy Jorrie (who will testify the next day) will say that she started only on June 15th. Why did AEG drag their feet for a month and a half I wonder?

AEG’s attorneys played video deposition of Timm Wooley, a financial advisor who worked on “This Is It.” He’s been an advisor for 20 years.

Kevin Boyle, Jacksons’ attorney, did the questioning. Boyle asked if he thought it was weird MJ wanted a doctor on tour.

It was his choice, whether it was usual or not usual was not my place to decide, Wooley responded.

I think I wanted to get Mr. Murray off my back, Wooley said regarding emails he wrote to Murray. He said the intention was to put him off.

Wooley said Prince had done some shows in O2, he acted as financial consultant. Gongaware contacted Wooley to work in the “This It It” tour.

Wooley got an email in early 2009. He said Gongaware wanted him as his deputy to work on projections, payables, payroll, petty cash. Deputed for him in matters financial, when delegated to me, Wooley explained.

Wooley said he did not do the negotiations with Dr. Murray. He said negotiations is a broad term, may have done some work.

He said he gathered information on behalf of MJ, his doctor that the artist wanted to contract, Wooley explained.

Wooley said Gongaware told him MJ wanted to hire Conrad Murray, whom he said he later found out was MJ’s primary physician.

Boyle: Did you ask why MJ wanted a personal physician on tour?

Wooley: Not mine to ask.

Wooley remembers calling Murray once in early May to check if he needed anything that he would get the info to the appropriate people.

One email says: “Need for one venue-based, one home-based extracorporeal CPR units.”

Wooley said he suggested Dr. Murray to get CPR units. He said he was working for the tour, called the doctor on behalf of Michael Jackson.

Boyle: Did you take any orders from MJ?

Wooley: No

I enumerated that item as an item he might wanted to have, Wooley said about the CPR, or defibrillation, units.

He said in his community there was installation of CPR units in some houses and he thought of asking.

Boyle asked if Wooley lived in a retirement home. He said he’s not retired.

Boyle: Did you have any reason to believe MJ could have suffer a heart attack?

Wooley: None

I was gathering information to compose projections and budget, Wooley testified.

Boyle: Did you discuss Dr. Murray giving injection of Propofol to MJ?

Wooley: No

Wooley never discussed the need for IV lines and needles. He said the doctor told him he may needed an assistant.

Wooley said they did not discuss need for nurse or doctor. “We didn’t talk about his services,” Wooley said.

Boyle showed an email Wooley sent to Dr. Murray on May 14, 2009. It says he was following up with Dr. Murray.

Email from Murray on May 15, 2009: As for good faith with my client… I’m sure you’re aware my services are already fully engaged with MJ.

Wooley doesn’t remember the email and doesn’t know what “my services are already fully engaged” meant.

I was attempting to be helpful, Wooley explained. He said he was not aware that Dr. Murray was treating MJ on behalf of AEG.

Email from Dr. Murray :Dear Timm, I gather from your last email my contract is taking a little more time to get than usual…

Email said his services are being done in good faith and asked, in reciprocity of good faith, to have payment for May deposited.

I didn’t have any agreement with Dr. Murray, Wooley said.

Boyle: Did AEG have an agreement?

Wooley: Never. There was never a completed agreement between Dr. Murray and AEG.

Wooley said he had no idea if AEG would pay Dr. Murray for May. He said he never read the contract.

Wooley testified he would’ve told Dr. Murray he would not get paid until the contract is completed.

Wooley said he does not recall specifically receiving an email from Dr. Murray with his bank account info and request for $150k payment.

Wooley said he does not remember if he asked Dr. Murray his bank account number.

The advisor said he was gathering the information with Dr. Murray to be put in a contract.

Email on May 28 from Wooley to Murray said doctor’s contract was delayed because it was rare event physician engaged to go on tour.

Yes, as far as I know, I was telling the truth, Wooley said. “I was putting him off.”

Boyle wanted to know if Wooley asked why they were taking the doctor along.

Did I not say it was Mr. Jackson’s request and it was not my place to question that? Wooley responded.

Wooley said Dr. Murray came from Vegas and MJ was living in Vegas for a period of time.

Wooley wrote email that AEG policy dictates you can only pay someone with fully executed contract. He said he knows it based on his experience

Wooley testified he forwarded to Dr. Murray the contract Kathy Jorrie sent him. He said he did not read it.

Boyle showed Wooley a chain of emails between him and Kathy Jorrie. He said he did not recall the chain specifically.

In an email, Wooley apologized for the delay in getting the contract to Murray, said once contract is executed AEG could pay May/June salary

There wouldn’t be any payment until a full agreement, Wooley said.

Wooley said he remembers Dr. Murray had MJ’s medical record from 2006 to 2009. It was needed for purposes of securing insurance.

Wooley testified Dr. Murray seemed to be the person to have the records, which was needed for underwriter of insurance.

Wooley said they would not have needed CPR units until they went to the UK. He did not quote any prices for the machine.

extracorporeal CPR unit in use

extracorporeal CPR unit in use

Wooley expressed he never discussed with Dr. Murray what kind of treatment he would be giving MJ.

Wooley testified he never saw any of the drafts of the contract between Dr. Murray and AEG, only forwarded them.

Brigitte Segal was MJ’s personal tour manager, Wooley said.

Wooley was not asked to run a background check on Dr. Murray and doesn’t know if it was ever requested by anyone.

Wooley said Dr. Murray asked for a “locum,” a British medical term for a person who stands by in place of a physician.

That ended Wooley’s deposition. Judge adjourned session until tomorrow morning. Attorneys are ordered at 9:30 am PT, jury at 9:45 am PT.

Attorneys and judge will discuss the video deposition of Joseph Marcus, the Neverland Ranch manager. Kathy Jorrie will testify next.

We hope to see you all tomorrow for full coverage of the trial. For the latest, watch @ABC7 and . Good night everybody

Before getting down to Tuesday please note that Murray asked for two “extracorporeal” CPR units which are absolutely not the portable CPR unit they finally agreed to. An extracorporeal CPR unit is a highly sophisticated piece of equipment and a very costly one at that.

So I doubt it very much that in the almost two months of negotiating Murray’s contract they never discussed why Murray asked for that equipment and therefore what kind of treatment he would be giving MJ. In fact anyone looking at the price and sophistication of that piece will exclaim in surprise – what do you need an extracorporeal CPR for?

Tuesday August 6, DAY 63

responsibilites of MurrayTo Kathy Jorrie, the lawyer who drafted the contract between AEG and Conrad Murray I have several questions:

1)     Why did it take her approximately 40 days to make the first draft of the contract though Timm Wooley promised to start working on the contract already on May 8th, 2009?

2)     Why did she first specify June 24 as the effective date of the contract and only when Murray noticed it changed it to May 1st? Was she trying to deceive Murray? After all payment was to start only from the date of executing the contract (when all parties were to sign it). So why was she so keen on saving up Michael’s money? Or was it AEG’s money that she was economizing?

3)     She says she forgot to replace “Producer” with Aritist” in the crucial phrase of Murray’s contract saying that “The doctor is to perform services reasonably requested by Producer”. But Murray specially requested her to change it, so why didn’t she?

services approved by the producer4)     And why did another paragraph (3.3) say that they were to supply the equipment to assist Murray to provide the services approved by the Producer? So AEG were supposed not only to request but also to approve his services, and this is how big AEG’s power over Murray was?

5)     Why didn’t she send Murray’s contract to MJ’s representatives? Especially considering the fact that Branca asked Randy Phillips to send him every paper to be signed by MJ and not allow him to sign anything without his approval?

6)     Has Kathy Jorrie ever read Tohme saying in Sullivan’s book that Conrad Murray’s salary was AEG’s responsibility and this is what Michael insisted on and AEG even agreed to it? Sullivan can be trusted in providing us this information – he repeated without any discrimination or criticism everybody else’s stories, so we can perfectly rely on Sullivan here – retelling the story the way it was told to him is his biggest and most valuable asset.

You will not find truthful replies from Jorrie to any of the above questions so you won’t lose anything if you skip her long testimony of polished lies and go over direct to Wednesday. Her testimony is provided here only for the record:

Tuesday August 6, 2013

Hello from the courthouse in downtwon LA. Day 63 of Jackson family vs AEG trial, Week 15, underway.

Katherine Jackson is present in court, wearing a purple jacket with black flowers on it.

Judge Yvette Palazuelos and attorneys spent more than 1 hour and 15 mins this morning discussing boundaries for next witness, Kathy Jorrie.

Jorrie is a lawyer who works for AEG and put together Murray’s contract. Both sides argued extensively regarding attorney-client privilege.

Jury entered the courtroom at 11:09 am PT. AEG called Kathleen Ann Jorrie, an attorney who works at a private firm and does work for AEG.

Attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina did direct examination.

Jorrie said she’s in the business for 20 years. She did undergraduate at UCLA and got JD degree at Hastings College of Law.

Jorrie is a partner at a law firm, works in Los Angeles. Her firm is an international company with close to 80 attorneys in the LA office.

Jorrie said she splits her work between being a trial litigator and transactional work, one who deals with contracts.

The focus of her clients has been the entertainment business. Her clients involve motion pictures studios, television content producers.

She also works with movie distributors, satellite providers, live entertainment promoters, etc.

Jorrie said she works with AEG Live and AEG in their live entertainment business. She deals with Shawn Trell (who testified earlier on.)

The attorney said she worked on more than 75 tour agreements with prominent artists, Rolling Stones, Bon Jovi, Britney Spears, Kanye West.

Over the years, Jorrie said Trell asked her to help negotiate agreements with vendors. She said she normally works on big agreements.

Jorrie worked on third party agreements for “This Is It” tour. She worked on deal with Bravado for merchandising, negotiated stage.

Jorrie also did the contract for Dr. Conrad Murray that Michael Jackson requested.

I drafted the version that was sent to Mr. Wooley, who provided my draft agreement to Dr. Murray, Jorrie explained.

Jorrie said, to her best recollection, she received a call from Timm Wooley to help prepare an agreement for Dr. Murray in late May of 2009.

The attorney never talked to Murray before drawing the first draft. Initial draft was based on basic terms Wooley provided her, Jorrie said.

Jorrie: He told me that MJ had agreed to pay $150,000 per month for Dr. Murray, that Dr. Murray was MJ’s personal physician.

In addition to providing medical care, Dr. Murray would be on call for emergencies, Jorrie explained.

Jorrie said nurse would be provided as selected by Dr. Murray and paid for by AEG Live. The doctor would have the air fare to/from London.

Also, the doctor and family would be provided housing in London.

Wooley said Dr. Murray wanted personal insurance in case he got sick. The payment to commence as of May 1, 2009.

Jorrie said he did not say what ended point would be. She put all the terms in the first draft agreement, but most details were missing.

Jorrie said she included other important terms:
– End date to be end of O2 arena in Sept. 2009
– Termination provision
– Indemnity

Jorrie said she sent the draft to Wooley and if he was happy with it to forward it to Dr. Murray.

Jorrie said there were 2 more drafts after the first. She said she looked at other AEG agreement contracts she had prepared AEG as template.

Jorrie explained she worked off the base contract and included a bunch of other provisions to the agreement.

Jorrie said the “Scope of Services” was a mix between what Wooley requested and her additions.

At Wooley’s request, she included that Dr. Murray was MJ’s personal physician and had been for some time.

Jorrie added “services to be provided by Dr. Murray administer those services professionally and greatest degree of care expected.”

The attorney said Wooley told her that Michael Jackson had asked Dr. Murray to go on tour with him and that MJ would pay for it.

Jorrie said she included in the contract “Artist Consent,” saying the contract was not enforceable unless and until MJ signed the agreement.

She said she added a line for MJ’s signature at the end of the document.

Jorrie said this provision was included in the 1st draft. She said Murray had no comment regarding the first 2 provisions of the contract.

Jorrie said Recital A, Paragraph 9 and wording above MJ’s signature explained Dr. Murray was hired on behalf of Michael Jackson.

Jorrie explained the Termination provision that allowed AEG to terminate the contract with Dr. Murray.


1- in event there was a default of the agreement by the doctor

2- in the event series of concerts postponed or canceled

3- if artist decided he no longer wanted or needed Murray

4- failed to maintain all licenses and approval to practice medicine

5- failed to submit written evidence that he was legally authorized to practice medicine in US

6- no later than July 3rd, evidence he was allowed to practice medicine in the UK

Jorrie said she believes she sent the email to Wooley/Dr. Murray on June 15. She testified she never received any documents from Dr. Murray.

Jorrie said Murray called her on 6/18/09:
1- Murray and MJ relationship
2- Some of changes he wanted made
3- Couple of questions Jorrie had

The attorney said the conversation about Dr. Murray and MJ relationship did not result in any change to the contract.

Jorrie: The changes he mentioned to me during the call, he wanted his company GCA Holdings to be the contracting party instead of him.

Dr. Murray also wanted to change provision where Jorrie referred to nurse.

Jorrie explained Dr. Murray said he wanted flexibility to have a “qualified assistant medical person,” who could be another physician.

Another change requested was to provision 7.7 regarding termination, Jorrie said.

Jorrie: He also let me know he was license to practice medicine in 4 states and gave me the states.

Jorrie: Dr. Murray told me he preferred to have GCA Holding as contracting party and he as employee of the company.

Jorrie said that it was okay but she wanted Dr. Murray on the contract also.

Jorrie: I asked why you needed another physician as opposed to a nurse. He told me in case he was unavailable or tired.

Jorrie said Dr. Murray wanted to have the flexibility to have someone on stand by, payable for by AEG Live.

Jorrie said ultimately she made the changes. Dr. Murray was the one who would identify who this medical person would be, but never did.

The attorney said Dr. Murray told her he was licensed to practice medicine in California, Nevada, Texas and Hawaii.

The first payment was to be no later than 5 days after contracted was fully signed by everybody, including Michael Jackson.

Dr. Murray wanted to modify section 7.7, termination either because MJ decided he didn’t want him anymore or the concert canceled.

As a result, he would not want to be in a position he would have to refund any part of his payment.

Payment was due to him on the 15th of the month to cover from 1st-30th. If he were terminated on the 20th, he wanted to keep full payment.

Jorrie: My response: Dr. Murray, $150,000/month is a lot of money!

Jorrie said Dr. Murray told her he had 4 medical practices making a million dollar a month, and it was not fair to have to return money.

Jorrie: Murray said under no circumstances he was leaving his practice if when terminated he couldn’t keep the whole 150,000 received.

Jorrie explained that provision 7.7 detailed what happened if there was a termination. Dr. Murray asked her to limit that provision.

Jorrie: He had asked to be able to retain the full payment for the month he received.

He thought it would be fair and appropriate due to him leaving his established medical practice, Jorrie explained.

Jorrie said she asked Murray about the CPR machine. The doctor provided a list of equipment he needed to Wooley, who in turn sent to Jorrie.

Jorrie: I asked Dr. Murray, why do you need a CPR machine? He said he needed one in London, MJ puts on a strenuous performance.

Jorrie asked if O2 arena didn’t have one. He said he didn’t want to take risks, wanted one at hand. He also told her it’s customary.

Giving Michael’s age, giving his age, and that he puts on a strenuous performance, he just didn’t want to take a chance, Jorrie said.

Jorrie recalled there was other equipments on the list, normally for dehydration purposes, like saline and catheter.

Contract said “producer to provide medical equipment portable CPR, saline, catheter, needles, gurney and other mutually approved equipment.”

Jorrie: Our conversation concerned London, he said he needed one (CPR machine) in London.

Jorrie said she took the information she got from Dr. Murray, went online and checked it out.

The attorney said she went to the Nevada Secretary of State to check if GCA Holdings, LLC was indeed a valid company.

Jorrie said she checked the medical boards Dr. Murray told her he was licenses and googled the doctor.

Jorrie testified GCA was a proper company and Dr. Murray was the manager of it. She added the address on the contract and Dr. Murray’s title

Jorrie said it was very easy to check the medical licenses. She went on the Medical Board websites and checked his licenses in all.

There was no disciplinary action against Dr. Murray, Jorrie said. She checked in California, Nevada, Texas and Hawaii.

Jorrie testified she did the medical license check on June 18, 2009. She said she sent the draft to Dr. Murray, but the email bounced back.

She then sent email to Wooley asking him to forward the contract to Murray.

Jorrie said she also attached a comparison doc with the redlines marking the changes she made for easier understanding.

Jorrie explained it’s her practice to save doc as “final pdf version.” She said it is a personal indicator that the final version was sent.

The attorney told the jury once the contract is fully executed, she saves it “fully executed.”

Jorrie said she was asked by the general counsel to see if she could ask Dr. Murray for the medical history for insurance purpose.

Dr. Murray said he had told me he had been MJ’s physician for a period of time, Jorrie expressed.

Bina: Did you send this email because you believe Dr. Murray was MJ’s physician?

Jorrie: Yes.

Jorrie asked that if Dr. Murray was not the right doctor to provide records, if he could please direct her to the appropriate physician.

The attorney said Dr. Murray told her he would help. Jorrie explained she had 3 drafts of Dr. Murray’s agreement.

GCA would actually provide the services of Dr. Murray, Jorrie said. The $150k would be paid not to Dr. Murray, but to GCA Holdings.

Jorrie changed Provision 3.4 at the request of Dr. Murray, from nurse to qualified medical person (assistant).

Change in 7.7: If there’s termination, GCA shall have no obligation to refund any portion of any installation due and payable before.

Jorrie said Dr. Murray called her again on June 23, 2009 asking for some more changes.

Jorrie spoke with Randy Phillips on June 19, 2009 on an unrelated matter and Dr. Murray’s subject came up.

It was phone conversation, she relayed Dr. Murray was licensed to practice in 4 states. “I checked out, or confirmed the info,” she said.

Jorrie testified she told Phillips Murray appeared to be very successful in his practice, may have told him about a million dollar a month.

I definitely told him he’s very successful in his practice, Jorrie said. “I confirmed he was licensed to practice in 4 states.”

Jorrie: AEG Live has been a consistent client of mine since 2000. Approximately 300 matters have been opened in 12 years.

First change was the effective date, from June [24] to May 1, 2009, Jorrie said.

Jorrie: He said he was promised that when the agreement was signed he would’ve been paid retroactively to May 1, 2009.

When Bina asked about payment provision, Panish objected to prevent Jorrie from expressing her opinion about the contract.

Judge: I’m going to strike the entire testimony if she keeps interpreting the contract.

Jorrie: He wanted to extend, by about 5 months, his engagement.

End date changed from Sept, 2009 to March, 2010

Jorrie asked if MJ would be paying him even though the tour would be on break. He said yes.

1- Scope of Services — it had language saying perform services reasonably requested by “Producer.”

Jorrie: Murray said we need to change that to Artist, it’s the artist who’s my patient. I said absolutely right, the artist is your patient.

Jorrie said provision 4.1 also says “Perform the Services reasonably requested by Producer.”

Jorrie: I didn’t change it to Artist because Murray didn’t draw my attention to that and I didn’t remember that language was in there twice.

Jorrie said if she had seen it, she would’ve changed it to Artist, not Producer.

Bina asked if on June 23 Jorrie discussed with Dr. Murray to get MJ’s medical history. She said yes.

Jorrie revised the agreement, emailed to Dr. Murray on 6/23/09: saying ‘I have attached a clean pdf version, which is ready for execution.’

Jorrie said she sent 3rd version of the draft to AEG Live. She didn’t send it to MJ or his reps, was not in communication with MJ about it.

Jorrie explained it was never her understanding that MJ’s medical records would have been sent to her but to insurance underwriter.

Jorrie: Late in the evening on June 24, I received a fax with a document signed by Dr. Murray. I forwarded a copy to it to Mr. Trell.

Jorrie said neither Michael Jackson nor AEG signed the contract.

The attorney said she has negotiated with third party vendors before without showing the drafts to the artist.

Jorrie: The reasons is that attorneys for the artist would have the document exactly like they wanted.

Judge: How do you know if you don’t talk to the artist that the agreement is what the artist’s want?

Sometimes we enter in agreements the artists never see, Jorrie told the court.

Jorrie said this is the first third-party vendor agreement she was involved with a medical doctor.

Jorrie sent Dr. Murray the last version on June 23rd, Dr. Murray faxed it back on June 24th.

Jorrie said she didn’t talk to Murray about specific treatment he was giving to MJ. “He didn’t tell me anything he was doing to treat MJ.”

Bina: Did Dr. Murray ever ask you for payment?

Jorrie: Never.

Jorrie explained paragraph 4 of the contract, which detailed the responsibilities of GCA/Dr. Murray.

Jorrie testified she discussed with Dr. Murray the requirement for UK medical license either on June 18 or 23.

Jorrie said July 3, 2009 was the date Dr. Murray was planning to go to London with Michael Jackson.

Bina showed the last page of Dr. Murray’s agreement. Under the signatures, it is dated June 24, 2009.

Jorrie said she put that date since she thought the parties would’ve signed the contract that day.

I do not know if Michael Jackson would’ve signed the agreement, Jorrie testified.

Regarding the reference that AEG hired doctor at request of MJ, Jorrie said she never did this on any other agreement on behalf of AEG.

Because we’re talking about Michael Jackson’s physician, Jorrie explained.

June 15th — first draft written, sent to Dr. Murray
June 18th — negotiation with Dr. Murray began, over the phone

June 19th — checked medical license, business standing
June 19th — spoke with Phillips about it

June 23rd – Murray called asking additional changes
June 23rd – third draft sent to Murray
June 24th – Murray signed it and faxed it back

Jorrie emailed Dr. Murray one more time after that related to the insurance for the tour.

In cross examination, Panish asked if Jorrie is an independent witness.

Jorrie: I don’t understand the question, Mr. Panish.

Panish: Are you being paid for the work you’ve done in this case?

Jorrie: I’m not being paid as I sit here today.

Panish asked if her company has received millions and millions of dollars from AEG. She said since 2000, yes.

Panish inquired if Jorrie is friends with Randy Phillips and Paul Gongaware.

I’d like to think all my clients are my friends, Mr. Panish, Jorrie explained. “They are business friends.”

I’m aware that Mr. Gongaware was sued one time, but I want to be absolutely certain, Jorrie said.

Panish: Professionals keep itemization of the work they do, don’t they?

Jorrie said she keeps tabs of the work she does.

Panish asked if Jorrie hires expert witnesses. She said yes. He inquired if professionals keep itemization. She said yes.

Panish: Have you ever paid an expert $700,000?

Jorrie: I have not.

Panish asked if Jorrie brought the contract she used as basis for drafting Dr. Murray’s contract.

Jorrie said she has it in her office. Panish asked to see it, she said she can provide it, redacting the name of the third party.

Jorrie charges AEG $595 per hour. She said she’s not billing AEG for the testimony today.

Panish: How much have you billed AEG related to the “This Is It” project?

Jolie: Work started in October 2008.

Jorrie asked if it included litigation. Panish said yes.

Jorrie: Of all matters related to This Is It?
Panish: Yes. More than 20 million?
J: Of course not
P: 10 million?
J: No
P: 5 million?
J: No

Jorrie said she can have her accounting department put together a spreadsheet with all she has billed AEG.

Panish said Paul Gongaware and John Meglen were sued for stealing the name Concerts West.

Bina objected, saying the lawsuit was dismissed and Panish was trying to tarnish Gongaware and Meglen’s reputation.

Judge: Was the case dismissed?
Panish: Yes
Judge: Then it’s not stealing. Please refrain from using that word. Describe it accurately.

Jorrie: For all of those matters, for 12 years, it would be millions of dollars.

Panish: How many multi-million dollars has your company been paid?

Jorrie: It could be over $5 million for that period of time (since 2000).

Panish: You knew MJ was going on a 3-5 years worldwide tour, correct?

Jorrie: That’s not correct.

Putnam was present when Jorrie spoke with LAPD after Michael Jackson’s death.

Panish: Did you go meet with LAPD and discussed MJ going to go on a worldwide tour?

Jorrie: No, they came to my office, asked questions.

Panish: Did you tell LAPD the that MJ was going on a world tour?

Jorrie: No.

Panish: Did you say European tour was just the beginning and MJ would be making a worldwide tout?
Jorrie: Not that I recall.

That’s not my statement and I don’t recall that, Jorrie testified.

Panish: Did you tell LAPD that MJ was going on a worldwide tour after European leg was over?

Jorrie: No.

Panish: Did Mr. Putnam tell LAPD MJ was going to do a world tour for 3 to 5 years?

Jorrie: Yes. Not like that.

Panish: You denied making that statement?

Panish asked if Detective Schmidt is called to testified and said Jorrie told him about MJ going on a worldwide tour, if that’s a lie.

He would’ve been mistaken, Mr. Panish, Jorrie said. “Because he misunderstood what I was saying about the tour.”.

Jorrie said she did not bill for the time she testified at deposition.

Panish: Did you tell the police department Dr. Murray took in $12 million a year?

I said that he told me that his 4 medical practices brought in more than a million dollars a year, Jorrie said.

Panish: Did you say one million dollar a month?

Jorrie: Dr. Murray had 4 practices, I told one million dollars a year and they added up to 12 million. [Note: Does 1mln times 4 make 12 mln?]

I spoke with him about the tour agreement and how it would work, Jorrie testified.

Judge adjourned session until tomorrow at 9:30 am PT. Jorrie will be back on the stand to resume cross examination.

Judge said Ortega all day Thursday & Friday. Rowe next week.

Debbie Rowe

Kenny Ortega

Kathy Jorrie — tomorrow

Upcoming Witnesses:

We hope to see you tomorrow for full coverage of the trial. For latest, watch @abc7  and . Have a good evening!

 Wednesday August 7, 2013

On Wednesday August 7, 2013 Kathy Jorrie continues with her lies but over here some interesting answers are elicited from her:

1. She says the contract with Michael Jackson was signed on January 26th, 2009. But Shawn Trell, who saw Michael just once said that he went to sign a contract with Michael on January 28. Can someone please explain how AEG can have two dates for one and the same event?

A quote from Shawn Trell::

A I’m sure the contract signing is the only time I met Michael Jackson

Q no sir, you told us ten times, and counsel had it in her questions, that on January 26th, 2009, you met Michael Jackson, and he signed all of those agreements.  You told us all about that, didn’t you, sir?

A that’s my recollection yes

And here is the famous exchange of emails saying that Trell is going to sign a contract (and meet the “freak”) on January 28, 2009:


2.  Panish rightfully points out that Kathy Jorrie overlooked the “mistake” that Murray was to perform the services requested of him by the Producer not just once, but on 4 drafts of Murray’s contract.  Jorrie does not explain why.

3. Kathy Jorrie also prepared a letter for Tohme to sign on behalf of Michael’s company stating that MJ agreed to cover production costs. However Tohme was not a ligit representative, but our good lawayer naturally “didn’t know” about it –  she didn’t know that he was never a representative of Michael’s company same that she never knew that Tohme had been terminated by Michael Jackson from whatever position he had.

4. When Panish asked her why she didn’t verify with John Branca on June 28th, 2009 whether Tohme representated Michael or not, in reply she challenged him with a defiant question “and why did Branca agree to pay the expenses then”?

Panish’s answer was intriguing – and how did she know that he agreed if she never saw the budget papers she says she never saw?

(Indeed, Kathie Jorrie isn’t an AEG employee and is not privy to this information, is she?)

5. And the next phrase about the “implication that the Estate didn’t recognize contract as valid” made me jump on my seat – so there is some hope that the Estate also considered the contract invalid?

Can it be that the Lord heard my prayers at last?


Wednesday August 7, 2013 DAY 64

Hello from the courthouse in downtown LA. Day 64 of Jackson family vs AEG trial, Week 15, is underway. We’re now on lunch break.

Kathy Jorrie is back on the stand for cross examination. Brian Panish, attorney for the Jacksons, doing the questioning.

Jorrie brought copy of the contract she used as template to draft Dr. Conrad Murray’s agreement.

She also gathered an estimate AEG paid her law firm since 2000, covering 14 years of work. Panish asked if it was in excess of $7.2 million.

Jorrie: It’s my estimate that my firm received a little over $ 7 million since 2000, which is about $500,000/year for services for AEG Live.

Panish: Did you say you negotiated probably 75 agreements with artists?

Jorrie: It’s about 75, but it could be more, all for AEG Live.

Panish: Where you representing Michael Jackson when you were preparing Dr. Murray’s contract?

Jorrie: I was not.

Regarding the LAPD conversation, Panish asked Jorrie if she was represented by Marvin Putnam in that meeting. She said no.

I really didn’t feel like I needed representation in that meeting, sir, Jorrie said. “I was a witness.”

Panish asked if Jorrie represented herself, since she is a lawyer. She said she doesn’t know how to answer, you always represent yourself as attorney

Jorrie met with LAPD twice in her office. Detective Smith questioned her, Putnam and Deborah Brazil, one of the DAs prosecuting Murray, were present

Panish: Do you remember telling me yesterday that you never told LAPD that MJ was engaged to go on worldwide tour?

Jorrie: Yes

Panish: Do you remember you denying telling the police department that statement?

Jorrie: Yes

Panish asked if after reviewing LAPD’s interview, Jorrie contacted Det. Smith to fix it. She said no, read it only months later.

Panish: Did AEG ever enter into a tour agreement with Michael Jackson that required him to do a world tour?

Jorrie: Yes

Jorrie explained some things had to happen before the world tour could take place.

She said the world tour was contemplated, but it didn’t mean it was going to happen.

Jorrie explained that if the parties agreed, then the tour could go on beyond London.

Jorrie said Dr. Tohme was a manager for Michael Jackson during the time they negotiated the tour and continued until the time of death.

Michael Jackson’s contract with AEG was signed on Jan 26, 2009.

Panish: Did you ever have reservations in January 2009 about Dr. Tohme?

Jorrie: I did

Jorrie said she googled Tohme and couldn’t see he was a music manager.

Panish asked Jorrie if she checks people on google. “That’s usually my first step in the process,” she responded.

Jorrie: As an alternative, yes.

Panish: And you recommended that a background check be done on Tohme, right?

not the real McCoy

Kathy Jorrie: “Tohme is not the real McCoy” (click to enlarge)

Jorrie explained she recommended at minimum that someone meet with MJ to make sure he understands he’s entering into worldwide tour agreement.

Jorrie said background check was not done on Dr. Tohme, at least to her knowledge. She didn’t do one.

Jorrie explained promoters and producers can and do negotiate third party vendors agreement as part of the business.

The attorney said she was very much involved in drafting Michael Jackson’s agreement with AEG.

Panish said Jorrie refused to have her deposition videotaped. Jorrie explained she was not properly notified about video deposition.

Dennis Hawk, Tohme Tohme and Michael Jackson’s company received a copy of MJ contract with AEG, according to Jorrie’s deposition.

Panish: On January [June] 28, Mr. Tohme approved the cost in excess of $7.5 million, correct?

Jorrie: On January [June] 28, Dr. Tohme had provided written approval that MJ company had approved certain production costs.

Jorrie said it’s actually June 28, 2009, not January as she previously stated. MJ died on June 25, 2009.

Panish: At the time of MJ’s death, are you aware of anyone approving production costs in excess of $7.5 million that was in the contract?

Jorrie: I’m not privy to everything, so I don’t know.

Panish: Did you ever see a written agreement for more than 31 shows as stated on the contract?

Jorrie: No, not that I recall.

Panish: The agreement specified the territory of the tour as the world, correct?

Jorrie: Correct

Panish shows contract of Michael Jackson with AEG.

Panish: And the term was Dec 2011 or conclusion of world tour, whichever occur later, right?

Jorrie: That’s what it says in the paragraph.

The contract says the shows were not to exceed 1 per day and 3.5 shows per 7 days.

Panish asked, if under the contract, Michael Jackson was prohibited to tour except if done with AEG.

Jorrie was not allowed to answer, since it calls to interpretation of the contract.

Jorrie said she sent the contract to Michael Jackson’s representatives.

Panish: Did you ever learn Tohme ceased being MJ’s manager?

Jorrie: To my best recollection, that issue came up after Mr. Jackson’s passing.

The fact that Tohme stopped representing MJ came up and it’s in litigation, Jorrie said.

Jorrie said Howard Weitzman, attorney for Michael Jackson’s Estate, told her about Tohme in connection with litigation several years ago.

Frank DiLeo may also have told her, she said. There’s also litigation about it as well.

Jorrie said she doesn’t recall if Weitzman was the first person who told her about Dr. Tohme not representing MJ at one point.

On June 28, 2009, there was a meeting at John Branca’s office with all the higher ups for AEG and MJ’s representatives.

Panish: AEG was out $34-plus million at the time?

Jorrie: I believe so, perhaps more.

Panish: On that day you questioned if Dr. Tohme was an officer of Michael Jackson’s company?

Jorrie: I did.

Panish: And that day you didn’t have anything in writing approving $34 million in expenses?

Jorrie: Correct.

Jorrie said she believed Dr. Tohme was an officer of MJ’s company prior to June 28, 2009. Paul Gongaware may have been the one telling her.

During the meeting on June 28, Jorrie said Tohme told her, personally, that he was an officer of Michael Jackson Company, LLC.

Jorrie said in Delaware you can’t check officers for LLC online.

Panish: Did you look up to see if Dr. Tohme was an officer of MJ’s LLC?

Panish inquired if Jorrie could’ve asked MJ directly if Tohme was an officer of his company. She said yes, if she felt it was necessary.

Panish: You never spoke with Michael Jackson, did you?

Jorrie: Not once.

Production costs summary

Tohme was no officer of MJ company either in January or June 2009 when he approved all production costs on Michael’s behalf

Jorrie was involved in drafting a consent agreement for Tohme to sign.

Panish: Who signed the tour agreement on behalf of Michael Jackson’s company?

Jorrie: Michael Jackson.

As of January 2009, Michael Jackson was the sole officer and signatory of Michael Jackson Company, LLC.

Jorrie received that information from MJ’s attorney, Dennis Hawk.

Panish: Before MJ died you had nothing in writing that MJ was not the sole company officer?

Jorrie: Nothing in writing was provided to me.

Jorrie said in the meeting they were getting consent from Tohme that production expenses had been approved by MJ’s company.

Panish: But you needed someone approved by MJ’s company, right?

Jorrie: That’s why we had confirmation he was an agent.

Total expense was around $34 million, plus $7.5 million that was pre-approved based on the contract resulted in $27 million outstanding.

Panish: AEG had $27 million out there that they had spent?

Jorrie: That’s my understanding.

Panish: And you and Mr. Trell had a document you gave Tohme at the meeting?

Jorrie: Yes.

Panish: And the word “consent” was there?

Jorrie: I’m not sure it was there.

The document was prepared by Trell and Jorrie prior to the meeting at Branca’s office.

Panish showed Jorrie a letter from Michael Jackson to Randy Phillips on April 22, 2009.

The document, signed by Michael Jackson, terminated Dr. Tohme’s representation as his manager.

Jorrie said she does not recall seeing it.

Letter from Concerts West to The Michael Jackson Company, LLC Jorrie helped draft, dated June 28, 2009.

1.I hereby confirm that Artistco (MJ) approved the attached budget of expenses which includes Production Costs and Pool Expenses

3.The undersigned Dr. Tohme Tohme represents he’s officer of Artistco, has full authority to act on behalf of Artistco/to sign this document

Panish: You never asked Tohme after MJ died if he was an officer of MJ’s company?

Jorrie: That’s right.

Jorrie: He confirmed to me, at the meeting, that he was an officer of Michael Jackson’s company.

Panish: Did you see any document saying Tohme was an agent of Michael Jackson’s company?

Jorrie: I had not seen any such documents.

Panish: Did you make any effort to confirm Tohme was an officer of the company? Jorrie said she spoke with Tohme about it.

Panish asked if Jorrie inquired John Branca, MJ’s attorney, if Tohme was authorized to sign on behalf of Michael Jackson Company, LLC.

Panish asked if she discussed with Branca about Tohme signing the document. Jorrie said she didn’t

I didn’t ask him that question, Jorrie said.

Panish said the document she handed to Tohme has a budget attached to it. Jorrie said she did not review the attached budget.

Jorrie said budget was given to her by Gongaware. Panish asked if the budget included payment of $150k/month, times 2 months, for Murray.

Since Jorrie testified she didn’t read the document, there is no foundation for her to answer the question. Judge sustained the objection.

I had nothing in writing that said Tohme was an officer of Michael Jackson’s company, Jorrie testified.

Panish asked if Jorrie saw the attached budget. “I never looked at that, that was Paul’s job,” she answered.

I have never seen a single piece of paper saying Tohme was not an office of the company, Jorrie said.

Jorrie: Why would the Estate approve the expenses then, sir?

Panish argued Jorrie doesn’t know what’s on the budget, so how does she know the Estate paid what’s requested.

Jorrie: I know Dr. Murray was not paid because he was not entitled to be paid.

Panish: Was Dr. Tohme there on the budget for $200,000?

Objection, sustained (since she had not read it.)

Judge told Panish to move on or she will cease the examination.

Defendants objected again based on attorney-client privilege

Panish: Mr Trell never told you about this document (MJ’s termination of Tohme)

Judge sustained the objection and ordered lunch break.

Outside the presence of the jury: Judge Yvette Palazuelos to Panish: You keep invading attorney-client privilege.

Judge: As to the budget — she keeps telling you she didn’t review it. Any question about the budget is without foundation.

Judge: I don’t want to waste time with that, over and over. I know you understand the ruling, I assume you have nothing better to ask.

If you don’t move on I’ll shut down the examination, Judge Palazuelos told Panish.

Panish explained what he was trying to do, that Jorrie volunteers and continue to volunteer what is not asked, almost more than any witness.

Panish: It’s improper what she did, your honor. As member of the bar, she knew as of January that this person was not officer of the company

Panish: Nonetheless she, as concerned he was not the real Mccoy, brought document to him with $34 million for him to sign off.

Bina said it was done in good faith, Tohme told her he was an officer of the company. She said DiLeo also told Jorrie MJ approved the budget

Panish: When she says my client told that, why can’t I ask about communication about that?

Judge ordered Panish to move on or she will finish his examination.

After lunch, outside the presence of the jury, Panish told judge he’s excluding anything that’s potential violation of atty-client privilege

Panish asked the judge to strike testimony of Jorrie when she issued opinion that the Estate didn’t pay Murray because he wasn’t entitled to

Jacksons attorneys want the judge to tell the jurors to disregard it, since the implication is the Estate didn’t recognize contract as valid

Jury entered the courtroom at 1:42 pm PT. Katherine Jackson is present in court wearing a navy blue jacket over a floor-length dress.

Jorrie explained she doesn’t recall working on agreements where AEG was both producer and promoter of the show.

Jorrie said she never worked on a contract for a doctor to go on tour, except for Michael Jackson.

Email from Murray to Wooley: I am basically in agreement and reiterate that your memo is correct pursuant to our conversation of May 8, 2009

Email cont’d: As for good faith with my client I’m sure that you are aware that my services are already fully engaged with Mr. Jackson.

Jorrie said she doesn’t recall receiving or seeing this email. Murray never told her he was meeting with AEG people regarding his contract.

Panish: Did Dr. Murray ever tell you he met with AEG personal at anyone’s request?

Jorrie: No

Wooley did not tell Jorrie that Dr. Murray’s services were being rendered.

Panish: Did you ever tell Dr. Murray he could not perform work without a fully executed contract?

Jorrie: Of course not.

Jorrie spoke with Murray about getting medical license to work in the UK. She knew Brigitte Segal was looking for housing in London for him.

Panish asked if it was in anticipation the contract would be all signed by July 3, 2009.

Panish: They were undertaking acts that were spelled out in the contract?

Jorrie: Yes.

Panish: Dr. Murray was undertaking acts that were spelled out in the contract?

Jorrie: I was told he was the personal physician for 3 years.

Panish showed the template contract Jorrie used to create Dr. Murray’s agreement. Jorrie said she took out paragraph 7 about Conflicts.

Panish: Regarding pay, equipment, starting and ending date provided by Mr. Wooley and not Dr. Murray, correct?

Jorrie: That’s not right, Mr. Wooley didn’t give me an ending date, for instance.

CPR machine was on the list Wooley provided to Jorrie regarding the requirements for Dr. Murray.

Panish played video of Jorrie’s testimony in Murray’s trial. She said in latter part of May, Wooley advised her he needed contract prepared.

May 1, 2009 is the commencement of the contract. Jorrie sent the contract to Dr. Murray on June 15, 6 weeks later.

Panish: Did you ever testify that payments had been promised to Dr. Murray retroactively to May 1?

Jorrie: Yes, once the contract was signed

Panish played another part of Jorrie’s testimony in the criminal trial.

DA asked if irrespective of the contract becoming activated, Murray was contemplating compensation from a period retroactively to 5/1/09.

Panish discussed paragraphs 3 and 4 of the contract, which spelled out the obligations for AEG and Dr. Murray.

Panish asked if AEG could terminate Dr. Murray without the consent of Michael Jackson. 

Jorrie: Yes

He told me his four medical practice was grossing a million dollars a month, Jorrie testified.

Panish: Did you find his website?

Jorrie: No, I didn’t find a website.

Panish said $150,000 per month equates to $5,000 a day for 30 days.

Jorrie put Conrad Murray and the names of his two clinics on google.

Jorrie: He said he had 4 medical practice, but I only found 2 clinics.

Panish: He was making a million dollars with two clinics?

Jorrie said she could find addresses for only 2 clinics, but Dr. Murray told her he had 4 medical practices.

Jorrie explained she looked up Dr. Murray’s medical license and two clinics are named.

I don’t know for sure it was his companies, Jorrie admitted. “It was my assumption they were his.”

Jorrie said the clinics were in Nevada and Texas, didn’t find anything in Hawaii and California.

The attorney said she spent about 10 minutes researching Dr. Murray online. Panish asked if Jorrie charged AEG for the time she spent.

Jorrie: Yes, for all my clients.

Panish: Sometimes you do freebies for AEG?

She said she doesn’t know.

Jorrie uses Lexis for legal research, she said. Panish asked if she checked how many judgments existed against Dr. Murray. She said not.

Jorrie didn’t check any pending lawsuits, litigation regarding child support or if Dr. Murray’s properties were in foreclosure.

Jorrie conceded she could’ve searched Dr. Murray in Lexis.

I definitely said he (Murray) appears to be successful, Jorrie said about her conversation with Randy Phillips.

Panish: And you determined Dr. Murray was successful based on 2 clinics?

Jorrie: No, it was based on my conversation with him and verifying the fact that he was licensed to practice medicine in 4 states.

Panish: Did you tell Phillips Dr.Murray made a million dollars a month?

Jorrie: I think I told him he (doctor) appeared to be successful and may have told him about his practices making a million dollars a month.

P: You verified licenses, googled him for 10 mins?

Jorrie: Yes

Panish: Your successful assessment was based on what Murray told you?

J: Yes

Panish asked Jorrie if Dr. Murray had to shut down his practice in order to work for MJ. She said no.

Panish: Dr. Murray could keep, sell or have someone else run his practices as to retain the $12 million/year revenue?

Jorrie: Yes

Jorrie never communicated with anyone representing Michael Jackson regarding Dr. Murray’s contract.

She did not send MJ or his reps any draft of the agreement, but sent them to Shawn Trell at AEG.

Dr. Murray called Jorrie on June 23, 2009 and told her he spoke with MJ about extending the end of the contract to March.

Dr. Murray would receive salary for 3 months plus without working, since the tour would be off, Jorrie said.

Panish asked if Jorrie checked with anyone in MJ’s camp whether the artist had indeed approved the extension of the contract. She said no.

I did not check anything with MJ’s representatives about Dr. Murray’s contract, Jorrie testified.

Jorrie sent the last version to Murray on June 23, 2009. All versions said 4.1- Perform the Services reasonably requested by Producer.

Jorrie’s files:

Murray Agreement 6-15-09

Revised MJ/AEG/GCA Holdings Agreement 6-18-09

Final MJ-AEG-GCA Holdings Agreement/Dr Murray 6-23-09

Panish concluded cross examination. Jessica Stebbins Bina did re-direct of Jorrie.

Jorrie said the names of the files included all signatories of contract.

Because it was for Michael Jackson’s physician, Jorrie explained

Jorrie said she values the relationship with AEG, but that does not prevent her from testifying in a truthful manner.

Bina asked about the time Jorrie represented Gongaware and Meglen.

She said it was a lawsuit filed by the children of Tom Hulett against AEG Live, Paul Gongaware and John Meglen.

Panish’s old firm represented the children, Jorrie said. It was a trademark infringement case.

We prevailed in all counts, Jorrie said.

Jorrie said plaintiffs claimed they were using Concerts West name without permission.

Jorrie: My clients received the judgment. It was appealed and the judgment in favor of my clients was affirmed.

The tour agreement had a potential to be a world tour Jorrie said. “In order for tour to continue beyond London, the parties had to agree”

Michael Jackson could’ve chosen not to approve the itinerary, Jorrie said.

Jorrie told LAPD detective that the agreement had potential to be extended to a world tour, based on mutually-approved itinerary.

Bina asked about paragraph 11 of MJ’s contract, which talked about “Approvals.” It says no party can withhold approval unreasonably.

Initial production advance not to exceed $7.5 million.

Contract Section 8.2 — Production cost

Bina: Based on that provision, if they request them (costs), they are responsible for them?

Jorrie: Yes

Jorrie explained, based on the contract, AEG was to recoup all costs incurred for production. Outstanding balance was MJ’s responsibility.

Bina showed the document Tohme Tohme signed approving the costs of production.

Jorrie said John Branca requested a meeting on June 28, 2009 to discuss several issues, among which how to unravel the tour.

Branca was named executor of MJ’s estate, had to be approved by probate court.

At this point, judge adjourned trial until tomorrow at 9:45 am PT. Kenny Ortega will be back to testify tomorrow.

Jorrie is ordered to be on call to conclude her testimony, probably Friday morning and Randy Jackson’s depo Friday afternoon.

We hope to see you tomorrow for full coverage of the trial. For latest, watch @ABC7 and visit . Good night everyone!

Thursday August 8, 2013. DAY 65

There is something fundamentally wrong in examining a witness on one date and cross-examining him months later. No one remembers the weak points of his earlier testimony, and all of it has to be started afresh with the only difference that now it turns into some small talk with little new information added and the old information already forgotten, and all attention is focusing  now on the witness’s pleasant manners and a nice tan.

What for did they ask Kenny Ortega to the stand again? To make him out as a great friend of Michael Jackson and an impartial witness?

But Ortega is NOT an impartial witness – it was him who reported Michael to the AEG bosses and threatened to quit the show if he didn’t attend the rehearsals. It was him who suggested playing a tough love and now-or-never card on Michael.  It was he who by the accounts of eye-witnesses was rude and over demanding towards Michael, and did not allow him even take away his ear piece though now he hypocritically says that he considered Michael his “boss”.

I’ve heard Ortega speak to Michael in This Is It film and his tone was far from that of an employee speaking to his boss. It looked like it was exactly the opposite.

But no one recalls now that Ortega didn’t give a damn that Michael’s shows were scheduled too close to each other and he had no time for rest between the concerts. No one remembers that after doing his director’s job Ortega could relax, while for Michael the 50-date tour was only starting, but Ortega never spared him and complained that he was missing too many rehearsals. And in Travis Payne’s opinion, for example, MJ missed no more than 4 or 5 rehearsals in the whole period of it.

On June 19th Ortega realized they had gone too far in pressurizing Michael, grew frightened of what he did and backpedaled a bit with all those panicky emails. The emails were regarded by Randy Phillips as an unforgivable weakness and he brushed them aside as Kenny’s “hysteria”, saying that “this guy was beginning to worry him”.

This was the drama and tragedy of those days we witnessed and cried over when he was testifying for the first time at this trial. However now all the tears and chill of those tragic days are forgotten and are happily replaced by a lot of pleasantries instead.

I bet that now Ortega is sun-tanned, well-rested and a nice sight to behold. Now he is reflecting at his leisure that Michael “didn’t show at all” in June 2009, he doesn’t remember AEG to put any pressure on MJ and Murray, and he can’t even remember MJ deteriorating in front of his eyes.

Michael Jackson is no longer the top artist for him but is “pretty close to it” and he is not sure that he would have commanded the world like he did before.

In addition to all that now he says that no one was responsible for Michael’s health but Michael himself! For some reason this quickly reminded me of prisoners in concentration camps and some overseers there making cynical observations that the health of their inmates is fully in their hands too.

Good-bye, Mr. Ortega – all I can say as a farewell to you is that it is extremely unfortunate that your nice ways managed to fool the jury. With pleasant guys like you the world can crash into abyss and everyone will be still applauding. What can await us in the future if we allow ourselves to be so easily deceived?

Thursday August 8, DAY 65

Hello from the courthouse in downtown LA. Day 65 of Jackson family vs AEG trial, Week 15, is underway. Session now in lunch break.

Katherine Jackson is in court wearing an ankle length black dress with a black and white polka dot jacket.

Jury entered the courtroom 10:10 am PT. Judge Yvette Palazuelos advised jurors she came up with new time estimate for the trial.

Judge: My estimate has now changed. The case will probably be submitted to you at the end of September.

It is what it is, judge said. She told jurors before they would get the case at the end of August.

Outside the presence of the jury, AEG attorney told judge he will be done 1st week of Sept or so. Panish said he has 4 rebuttal witnesses.

Judge said they are bringing Kenny Ortega back on the stand out of order to finish his testimony.

Ortega is under cross examination by AEG’s attorney Marvin Putnam. Ortega had professional engagement overseas, not available until today.

Putnam showed Ortega a “Certificate of Employment — Loan-Out,” which Ortega said it’s certificate that he works for The K.O. Company, Inc.

AEG Live had an agreement with K.O. Company for the services of Ortega.

P: What were you employee of?

O: K.O. Company

Putnam: Did you understand you were an employee of AEG Live?

Ortega: No

I was only contracted, and we were only focused, on the London tour at this time, Ortega explained.

Ortega’s contract was executed on April 26, 2009. “I believe I was paid in advance of signing,” Ortega said.

In his deposition, Ortega was shown documents to refresh his recollection. Putnam showed him the same documents.

Ortega looked at the document and said he was paid on May 11, 2009, which is after he signed his contract.

Ortega: That’s what appears in this document.

Putnam: You were paid after the contract was executed, right?

Ortega said he has put himself in the position of working prior to signing a contract. “It’s what I call working in good faith.”

Putnam: If you don’t reach an agreement, you could work and not get paid?

Ortega: Yes

It’s sort of common in the industry, Ortega said.

I can recall specifically, but I’m sure in my 40-something years in this business that has occurred, Ortega testified.

In Ortega’s contract, there is a provision for bonus in case “This Is It” tour went around the world.

Putnam: If tour was successful, you already have in your agreement what you’d be paid in bonus, correct?

The shows were not booked or guaranteed, Ortega said. “That’s what I think Michael hoped to do, but wasn’t booked.”

Ortega’s contract does not have a signature line for Michael Jackson.

Putnam read Murray’s contract were it says the contract is not valid unless MJ consented to it and asked if Ortega has that in his contract.

Ortega: That’s what I understand it’s in my contract

Ortega went thru all the pages of his contract and said: “I do not see that anywhere.”

Putnam: Did you consider it a tour?

Ortega: We called it tour, term used in the industry, but we weren’t really touring, it was 1 venue.

People were calling it a tour but it was more like an event, Ortega explained.

He told me he only wanted me, Ortega said about Michael Jackson’s wished that he be the director.

Putnam: Is it fair to say you were the “TII” director because of MJ?

Ortega: Yes.

Ortega said he doesn’t remember who he said reached out to him first regarding the tour in his deposition.

Putnam showed Ortega’s deposition transcript. “In deposition, I remember it to be Dr. Tohme,” Ortega said.

In a deposition related to Lloyds of London litigation, Ortega also said Dr. Tohme first reached out to him regarding TII.

In Dr. Murray’s criminal trial, Ortega said it was Paul Gongaware.

Putnam: Do you remember as you sit here today who first contacted you?

Ortega: I’m not really certain.

Ortega said he didn’t really know who Dr. Tohme was, have never met the guy at that point. Tohme said he called on behalf of MJ.

Ortega testified he never really fully understand Dr. Tohme’s role related to MJ. He thought was a friend.

Regardless of who contacted him first, Ortega said he was hired because Michael Jackson wanted him.

Ortega said AEG Live and MJ were co-producers of the show.

Ortega said he reported to Michael Jackson for the creative side of the tour and regarding budget/financial matters he reported to Gongaware

Ortega explained he dealt with Gongaware regarding technical things, like moving dates to new rehearsal venue, delivery of stage parts, etc.

Ortega would discuss with Michael about hiring someone and the director would go to Gongaware to get the contract drawn and the person hired

Ortega did not discuss with Gongaware anything related to creative matters.

Because the creative person was Michael, and myself, Ortega explained.

We talked about these things together and I’d go with Michael’s blessing to Paul to begin the process, Ortega explained.

Putnam: Did he ever tell you you couldn’t get something?

Ortega: No.

I’d go and say ‘this is what we’d like,’ Ortega said.

He would just make it happen, Ortega said. He could not recall Gongaware denying anything.

Final say would be Michael, Ortega said. “Michael had final creative say.”

Putnam: Why?

Ortega: Because he was brilliant and he knew what he was doing.

At the end of the day, creatively, we trusted Michael knew what we needed, Ortega said.

Ortega said February, March and April MJ was very involved in the creation of the show, would show up a lot.

A lot meaning 3-4 times a week, Ortega clarified. He said things changed as they were moving to the Forum, which was end of May.

Putnam: Who did you consider your boss?

Ortega: Michael.

Ortega: I thought of MJ as my partner, I didn’t think of him as my boss. But MJ always had the final creative say in all the years we worked

Putnam: Did you feel AEG Live supported MJ?

Ortega: Yes

Putnam: Did you ever see AEG pressure Michael in any way?

Ortega: No

Ortega: Everything we brought to AEG, in terms of enormous creative needs, that AEG was very supportive in doing all they could.

Ortega said he would ask Gongaware for more and more things to create the show. Gongaware never denied anything.

He said there were professional discussions like ‘is this something you really feel it’s going to benefit,’ ‘do you really need this.’

Ortega: I think we were getting in a place were we had a ceiling, because we were already with a fat budget.

Ortega: But at the end, I believe they thought Michael had what he wanted.

Ortega said he learned from Randy Phillips that Dr. Murray was responsible to get MJ to rehearsals on June 15, 2009.

He explained he didn’t think Phillips was involved as much in MJ’s scheduling, but was overseeing it.

Ortega said he never spoke with Timm Wooley about scheduling.

I looked at Mr. Phillips as the promoter, Michael’s promoter and producing partner, Ortega testified.

Ortega: In this stage of the game, Mr. Phillips took on overseeing position to make sure the schedule was responsible for Michael.

Ortega: I think they were trying to create a schedule to factor in all of Michael’s needs (like family) and still could come to rehearsal.

Putnam asked about June 19, 2009. “I’ll always remember June 19,” Ortega said.

Putnam asked if Ortega testified before he thought MJ had a really bad case of flu.

I supposed I might have suggested it could look that way, Ortega said. “It would’ve been a really, really bad flu.”

Putnam asked if throughout the night on June 19th, if MJ got better. Ortega said yes.

P: Calm?

O: Yes

P: More engaged?

O: Yes

P: Warmed up?

O: A bit

Putnam: He was coherent?

Ortega: Yes

I felt somewhat calm when we left, Ortega said. But he said he was still concerned, thus the email he sent to AEG high ups.

Ortega: It didn’t appear to me it was drugs, it appeared to me it was something else, emotional.

Putnam: It never crossed your mind it could be drug related?

Ortega: No, I was thinking it was something else.

Putnam: You have never seen Mr. Jackson like that before?

Ortega: No.

Ortega sent an email after seeing MJ that way because he thought Phillips and Gongaware should know about it.

There was a meeting scheduled next day to address MJ’s problems on June 19.

Ortega said he thought it was a responsible way to deal with it, and pretty immediate after the fact.

At the meeting, Dr. Murray told Ortega to stay out of it and to leave MJ’s health for him to take care.

Dr. Murray told Ortega to quit being an amateur doctor and that MJ was physically fit to show, the director recalled.

Putnam: MJ assured you that he was fine?

Ortega: I didn’t feel assured

Ortega: He said don’t leave me, I’m gonna take the reins, you’ll see I’m going to change this. He seemed absolutely committed at that point.

Ortega: Murray started up saying I had no right to not allow Michael to rehearse that night and that I had no right to send him home.

Ortega testified he said: ‘Wait a minute, that’s not at all what happened.’ The director recalled Dr. Murray said MJ told him that.

Ortega: I looked at Michael and asked him to tell what had happened, that I didn’t forbid Michael of anything.

Ortega said, at one point, MJ told him he was going home. “I said yes, go home, tuck your children in, feel better,” Ortega described.

Ortega: I did think it was right he didn’t rehearse that night, I did think it was the right thing he went home.

Ortega said Dr. Murray told him to be the director and to quit his concerns with Michael Jackson’s health because it was not his job.

Ortega: I’d like to think that Michael would not set me up that way, I’d like to think Dr. Murray misunderstood Michael.

Ortega said Michael explained in the meeting that what Dr. Murray said was not what had occurred.

Putnam: Did you talk about drugs in that meeting?

Ortega: No

Putnam: Did he (Murray) offer any explanation of what happened to MJ the night before?

Ortega: I don’t believe so.

Putnam: Do you think MJ was being responsible with his own health?

Adults are responsible for their own health, Ortega opined.

Ortega: I worked with 10,000 people in the Olympics, how can I be responsible for everybody’s health?

Ortega: I didn’t think he was being very responsible, but it was his responsibility, in my opinion.

Jurors were writing viguroulsy at this point. Juror number 6 looked over at Katherine Jackson.

Ortega: I wanted to take care on him, you want to take care of someone when something is not right, but you can’t be responsible.

Putnam: Were you responsible for MJ’s health?

Ortega: No.

Someone on behalf of Michael Jackson contacted Ortega to be part of the HBO special.

Ortega never asked MJ about his rehab stint or any drug use.

Putnam: Did you have any reservation to work with him after rehab?

Ortega: No

P: Why not?

Because he came out of rehab, Ortega said. “He was moving on with his life in a healthy way, hopefully.”

Putnam: Did you ever talk to him about nutrition?

Ortega: As a general idea

P: Physical therapy?

O: Yes

Ortega said he would talk to MJ, as a performing artist, and ask if he was focusing on nourishment, health, warming up, stretching, sleeping

MJ wasn’t really fond of massage, Ortega said. “Don’t forget to eat, get some rest,” Ortega would tell MJ.

The singer would smile and answer “okay” in a very loving way, Ortega recalled.

Ortega said MJ liked to be in a certain kind of place (weight) to execute his moves and to get the look he

wanted. “I might have been a little concerned (with his weight) when I brought that up, yes,” Ortega testified.

Putnam: In your opinion, was Mr. Jackson always skinny?

Ortega: In the early years I worked with him he was light, lean performer.

“He was strong,” Ortega said. But 20 years later, when Ortega worked with MJ in the “This Is It,” the

director said MJ was much different.

Ortega’s first time working with MJ was in the “Dangerous” tour. He said he may have been director of the project. It was in 1992-93.

Ortega said he usually likes to stay in tour until everything is working to everybody’s satisfaction. He said it may be 4-5 shows or 8-10

Putnam: Did you have any concerns he might have been using drugs then?

Ortega: No. At this time, MJ was living at Neverland.

Ortega said they never rehearsed at MJ’s ranch, but a stage in Los Angeles.

Ortega was called to help MJ with the HBO special.

Putnam: He seemed well to you?

Ortega: Unhappy

Putnam: Was he physical well?

Ortega: He seemed tired and unhappy, stressed.

Putnam: But at no time you thought he was using drugs?

Ortega: No.

Ortega was present at Beacon Theater when MJ collapsed. He didn’t see the artist fall, though. He said security responded quickly, everybody stayed away to give paramedics room to work. MJ was transported to the hospital. Ortega didn’t go, because he said he wasn’t invited. “Certainly concerned,” though, he explained.

HIStory tour rehearsal was done in Los Angeles, Ortega said.

Putnam: Did you have any concern with MJ’s health?

Ortega: I don’t recall having any concerns

P: How about mentally?

O: No

Putnam: Were you concerned MJ was doing drugs before “TII” in 2008?

Ortega: No, I saw him.

Ortega said he had dinner with MJ a couple of times, MJ took his children to see High School Musical, and that he looked fine.

The director described MJ very excited, even not knowing yet what “TII” was going to be, but feeling exhilarated.

Ortega said MJ was being approached by someone from American Idol, also Randy Phillips approached him, they wanted to do something with him.

I think seating in a theater for 5 years in Las Vegas wasn’t really attractive to him, Ortega explained.

Michael wanted to get out on the road, Ortega said.

Ortega: I was happy for him, because he had been through so much, I wanted him to be the King again.

Ortega: I think the arrival of his children in his life brought something he didn’t have before.

He seemed exhilarated, excited, like the Michael I always knew, Ortega described.

Ortega: He was unbelievable! His reasons for doing the tour were incredible. He was motivated.

Ortega said the meeting on June 20th was at MJ’s Carolwood home. On June 23rd, Ortega testified MJ was in great spirits, ready to work.

Putnam: Completely different?

Ortega: Completely

Ortega: He seemed healthy, ready and happy, there didn’t seem to be any left over issues from the 19th.

Ortega said MJ was always a little chill, but not like on the 19th. The director was surprised how quickly MJ got better.

Putnam asked if Ortega inquired MJ what had happened. “I didn’t pry in his personal live,” he replied

It was like metamorphosis, he said.

Putnam: How was the rehearsal?

Ortega: Great. It was one of the best rehearsals we had up until then.

Putnam: Had he taken the reins?

Ortega: Yeah

MJ was there a number of hours, Ortega said. He went through a number of songs.

Ortega: He was in charge. Not only capable to rehearsing but to talk about other aspects of production, like films, the effects, costumes.

Ortega said he just embraced it and went with it. “We were all delighted” Ortega recalled. “The energy in the room changed, hope returned”

Ortega: Everybody felt there was a different Michael in the room.

Ortega said MJ was almost as good on the 24th as the 23rd. He seemed a little tired from the day before but talked about things for the show

MJ also rehearsed and performed. Ortega said he was feeling they were back on track, believing they were in a new chapter.

Maybe it was a lot of rest, Ortega opined. “He did seem rested, stronger”

Ortega felt less excited, deeply grateful about MJ’s come back.

Putnam: Did you have concern on the 23rd or 24th he was taking drugs?

Ortega: No.

Ortega said said excitement was pretty unanimous among all the people working on “This Is It.”

In re-direct, Panish asked: Prior to June 23rd, you thought Michael got real organic sleep?

Ortega: Yes.

Panish: And before that you thought he was not having any sleep?

Ortega: Yes.

Panish: The symptoms he had, did it seem like someone who wasn’t sleeping?

Ortega: I think that might have been a factor there.

Panish asked Ortega to assume MJ was getting Propofol for 60 days then didn’t have Propofol the last few days before his death.

Ortega: I assumed sleep had to be a part of it, he looked rested.

Panish asked is Ortega saw MJ several times appearing under some kind of drugs during TII.

Ortega: It seemed like it was doctor related, so it wasn’t like taking drugs but just being under the influence.

Panish: In all your years in the industry, have you ever heard a producer involved in hiring a doctor for an artist?

Ortega: I haven’t.

Ortega said he thinks it’s unusual for producers to engage attorneys to hire a doctor for an artist.

Ortega clarifies that the only artist, “the” artist, was Michael Jackson.

Panish asked if MJ could’ve been fired by AEG. “No, he was a partner,” Ortega responded. He said Michael told him that.

Panish: The producer could fire you if they wanted, right?

Ortega: I think Michael would not be happy with that.

I assume they could give a good try, Ortega responded. “I assume they could do that but I doubt it would last more than 24 hours.”

I don’t think producers can fire Tom Cruise, Ortega opined. Panish said movies are different from singers.

I don’t think producers can fire Cher, Ortega said.

Panish: Were you ever involved in a show where promoter was buying CPR machine?

Ortega: Not that I know of.

Panish: Were you ever involved in a show where promoter was buying saline, catheter, needles for a doctor?

Ortega: No.

Panish: Have you seen a CEO for promoter/producer involved in artist rehearse attendance/schedule?

Ortega: CEO no, producers/promoters yes.

Panish: Have you ever seen a situation where a CEO for promoter/producer set rehearse schedule with artist’s doctor?

Ortega: No

Panish: Did you think you were not being demanding enough of MJ’s attendance and schedule?

Ortega: No

Email from Woolley to Bob Taylor saying Randy Phillips and Dr. Murray were responsible for MJ rehearsal and attendance schedule.

I recalled that Dr. Murray was going to be responsible for the schedule, Ortega said.

Earlier in the trial, Ortega testified rehearsal schedule and attendance was up to Dr. Murray and Randy Phillips.

Ortega said, at one point, there was a standstill regarding his contract.

Email from Gongaware to Ortega on March 25, 2009: I’m afraid we may not be able to meet your financial requirements for a deal.

Panish: Are you aware of any artist in the world with the drawing power of Michael Jackson?

Ortega: I’d think if done right, that Michael would be the highest draw on the planet.

Panish: You don’t think Celine Dion would be bigger?

Ortega: I think the Stones come close, McCartney come close. But if MJ was not the number one, he was very close.

He sold 50 shows, Ortega said. “Pretty awesome, historical.”

Ortega said he disagrees with anyone who says there’s no way MJ could’ve done 50 shows.

Panish: Did you ever have assistant producer say she was afraid an artist would die in weeks of a show and they actually did die?

Ortega: No.

Yes, he did change over time, Ortega said about Michael Jackson.

Panish: Was MJ perfectionist?

Ortega: That would be something that people would have called him.

Ortega: Most of us have never seen anyone work as hard to accomplish something as MJ.

Ortega said he didn’t see MJ at practice for a long period of time in June.

Panish: In June, he didn’t show at all?

Ortega: That’s correct

It was fairly obvious he was not moving forward in the rehearsals with this sort of tempo, Ortega testified.

Panish: Did you have concerns about his physical condition on June 14?

Ortega: I’d say yes.

Panish: Sir, did you tell anyone that MJ should’ve been taken to the hospital?

Ortega: I might have.

Panish: Did you say that after MJ died?

Ortega: No, I think I’d have said it sooner than that.

Panish: You didn’t think Dr Murray was doing a good job?

Ortega: No

Ortega suggested another physician, not Murray, come to check MJ out.

Panish: Did you think MJ was irresponsible?

Ortega: It seemed to me that he was in trouble.

Ortega: MJ was very cool, bold, strong in his ideas and what he wanted all through the beginning of the process.

Eventually he started to decline and disappear, Ortega recalled.

Panish: I want you to assume that AEG Live hired Dr. Murray. Would you expect them to hire a fit and competent doctor?

Ortega: Yes.

Panish: You expect AEG to check them out, not being under conflict of interest situation?

Ortega: Yes.

Panish asked if Ortega was doing his job when he sent email with concerns. “More than just doing my job, looking out for my friend” he said.

Ortega said Dr. Murray did not have the same mindset as him in the June 20th meeting.

Phillips didn’t do anything to stop Dr. Murray’s admonishment of Ortega in the meeting, Panish said. Ortega agreed.

Panish: Did you ever learn that Phillips was grabbing Dr. Murray’s arm?

Ortega: I never heard that.

Panish asked if Ortega knew how much pressure AEG was putting MJ and Dr. Murray on.

He said no.

Panish: Did you heard Murray walked out and said he couldn’t take this s**t anymore?

Ortega: No, I never heard that.

Ortega then opined: If Michael ever heard you talk like that it would not be appropriate. Isn’t that right Mrs. Jackson?

Katherine Jackson nodded in the audience in agreement. “In respect of why we are all here for, that’s not nice,” Ortega said on the stand.

Ortega said he never told Faye MJ had to face his fears; used the word tough love, may have said the show could be cancelled if not ready.

Ortega: Michael had not performed in 10 years. Whether he’d command the world like he had before remained to be seen.

However, the sell out at the O2 for 50 shows showed he still had drawing power, Ortega opined.

Putnam did re-cross.

Putnam: Did you see Michael deteriorate over 8 weeks?

Ortega: I would’ve not used the word deteriorate to describe what I saw.

The week of June 15th is when Ortega grew concerned with Michael Jackson.

Ortega said nobody came up to him on the 23rd or 24th expressing concern about MJ. They did on the 19th but not after MJ came back on 23rd.

Putnam: Would it be surprising to you that the Rolling Stones have a doctor on tour with them right now?

Ortega: No.

Putnam: You just don’t know some of those things, right?

Ortega: Yes.

Putnam: Have you ever worked on a tour where an artist was $400 million in debt?

Ortega: Not to my knowledge.

Putnam: Have you ever worked on a tour where the artist could not afford his daily expenses?

Ortega: I don’t believe so.

Putnam: Have you ever worked on a tour where the promoter/producer was advancing all daily expenses?

Ortega: It’s possible, I don’t know.

Putnam: Have you ever worked on a tour where artist was unable to pay his personal doctor?

Ortega: I don’t think so, assumption on my part.

Putnam: Who introduced you to Dr. Murray?

Ortega: Michael

P: Did AEG introduce you to him?

O: No

P: What did MJ say?

O: This is my doctor.

Putnam asked if AEG checked if the doctor was licensed and if he had been disciplined, if it was responsible thing to do. Ortega said yes.

Putnam: If they weren’t hiring Dr. Murray, would that responsibility be above and beyond anything they needed to do, in your mind?

Ortega: I think that would’ve been responsible.

Putnam: Did Mr. Phillips ever tell you he wanted MJ to come on tour?

Ortega: No


In re-re-direct Panish: Would it be responsible to place a doctor in a conflict of interest had they hired him?

Ortega: In my opinion, no

Putnam in re-re-cross asked if it’s common practice to check a doctor’s credit report prior to hiring him.

I wouldn’t think it would be something that would be the norm, Ortega responded.

Putnam: Do you think it’s responsible for a studio to hire Kenny Ortega if he were in debt?

Ortega: I’ve been there and they hired me.

Putnam asked if being in debt diminishes your capability. “I don’t think so,” Ortega responded.

Ortega: Being in debt doesn’t change your talent, your gift, your ability.

Panish in re-re-re-direct: Do you have access to a prescription pad?

Ortega: No

Putnam and Panish took turns in asking out-of-the-ordinary questions regarding responsibility to Ortega.

Jurors were laughing out loud with the exchange between the attorneys. The director kept his composure and responded to all questions.

Ortega was dismissed, subject to recall in AEG’s case in chief.

When the director got up, all jurors clapped for him. He thanked the jurors, kissed Mrs. Jackson, shook hands with Shawn Trell and left.

Judge adjourned session a little early. Jurors ordered back 9:30 am tomorrow. Kathy Jorrie is back on the stand.

AEG plans to play Randy Jackson’s deposition and Dr. David Adams from Las Vegas in the afternoon. We hope to see you tomorrow! Good night!


Friday August 9, 2013 DAY 66

Kathy Jorrie continues with her lies.

Now she says that Panish never showed her any document proving that Tohme had no right to represent the Michael Jackson company. But we have an email from Dennis Hawk to her and Shawn Trell dated January 14, 2009 (two weeks before signing a contract with MJ) saying that Michael is the sole officer of his company and is the only one who can sign for it (so Tohme can’t, especially after MJ’s death when all representation of him ceased).

MJ is the sole officer of the MJ companyKathy Jorrie also explains that she was in no hurry to draft a contract with Murray as she thought that he was working for Michael then and it was his usual job which he had been doing for MJ for 3 years before that.

Over here I have two questions:

1) If she thought that before the AEG contract Murray was working for Michael, for whom was he supposed to work after it? For AEG as Tohme is telling us?

2) And didn’t she hear from another AEG witness LaPerruque, MJ’s head of security, that he never saw Murray in 2007 and beginning of 2008? So what three years is she talking about?

Kathy Jorrie also says that “of course” AEG was not to supervise Murray but does not explain how it was possible for AEG not to supervise Murray if he was to do as they requested and his services were to be approved by AEG?

And they had the right to terminate him without asking MJ’s opinion by the way!

You can read all her further lies if you want, but I suggest you skip and go over straight to Randy Jackson’s deposition. You can fully enjoy it without my comment as I will refrain from it for the moment. All I can say is that it is the exact opposite of LaPerruque’s and his approach to any problems Michael Jackson could be having:

Friday August 9, DAY 66

Hello from the courthouse in downtown LA. Day 66 of Jackson family vs AEG trial is underway. We’re currently on lunch break.

Kathy Jorrie is back on the stand. Jessica Stebbins Bina resumed re-direct examination.

Katherine Jackson is not present in court today.

Bina showed Jorrie MJ’s contract. Paragraph 13: Artistco hereby represents/warrants that Artist does not posses any known health conditionin, juries or ailments that would reasonably be expected to interfers with Artist’s first class performance.

injuries or ailments that would reasonably be expected to interfers with Artist’s first class performance.

Bina: Who signed this?

Jorrie: Michael Jackson.

Bina: So MJ represented that he did not have any health condition that would interfere with his performance?

J: None whatsoever

Bina: Drug problems?

Jorrie: I never had any information that MJ was not in good health.

Bina asked if Jorrie believed Tohme was an officer of MJ company.  She said yes

Bina: Insomnia or sleep problems?

Jorrie: Not in the least.

Bina: Did Mr. Panish show any documents that he was not an officer?

Jorrie: He did not.

Regarding the email Dennis Hawk, MJ’s attorney, sent Jorrie on January 14, 2009, she said they wanted to replace the name of MJ’s company.

It’s usually the type of representation she gets

Bina: Before Jun 28 you had been told Tohme was an officer of the MJ’s company?

Jorrie: Yes

Bina asked if Jorrie was told on June 28, 2009 that Dr. Tohme was an officer of MJ’s company when he received the consent document.

Jorrie: That’s my best recollection, I was informed that he was an officer of Michael Jackson’s company.

Jorrie said Tohme himself represented to her he was an officer of MJJ’s company.

Jorrie said the meeting on June 28, 2009 was called by John Branca, co-executor of MJ’s Estate, co-executor John McClain was on the phone.

She said Frank DiLeo and various AEG reps were also present at the meeting and Tohme was there speaking about things having to do with MJ.

Dr. Tohme was there discussing MJ’s business in front of everybody, Jorrie testified. “Nobody challenged Dr. Tohme or his presence.”

Jorrie said Dr. Tohme signed this document. She said she has seen Frank DiLeo’s signature as well approving the expenses.

Bina asked if Weitzman told her Tohme had been fired but nevertheless the Estate agreed to reimburse AEG for production costs

Jorrie: I’m aware that the Estate reimbursed some costs.

Bina asked if Woolley forwarded Jorrie an email saying Dr. Murray was fully engaged in Mr. Jackson’s treatment in May. She said no.

B: Did Murray tell you that?

J: He did

Bina: Did it surprise you Dr. Murray was fully engaged and treating MJ in May 2009?

Jorrie: No.

Bina: Why not?

Jorrie: Because I understood from Murray that he was MJ’s personal physician for 3 yrs

Bina asked if Jorrie told Dr. Murray to stop treating MJ until they had an agreement. She said no.

Jorrie: The reason is that Dr. Murray was Mr. Jackson’s physician and it would not be my place to tell him not to provide services.

Jorrie said MJ had been his patient for many years.

Bina: Did Dr. Murray need an agreement with AEG Live to treat patients?

Jorrie: No, he did not need an agreement from AEG Live to perform services to his patients, including Michael Jackson.

Jorrie read graph 9 of the contract, “Artist Consent.” It says that without the express written consent of MJ the contract was not valid.

Jorrie: This is an independent contract agreement. Dr. Murray was MJ’s physicians, retained to and in the expense of the artist.

Bina: You didn’t put any provision for Dr. Murray to be supervised by AEG Live?

Jorrie: Of course not.

Bina: Are there any words in agreement that says Murray can only use medical equip approved, bought by AEG?

Jorrie: There’s no such wording

Jorrie said there was also no word about Dr. Murray having to use only equipment provided by AEG to treat Michael Jackson.

Bina: Did Dr. Murray ever ask you for any equipment?

Jorrie: No

Bina asked about end date of contract. Original date was Sept. 2009, but Dr. Murray asked it to be changed to March 2010, Jorrie said.

Bina asked Jorrie why she didn’t check with MJ or his reps about changing the end date of the contract.

Jorrie explained they were negotiating a contract to a place where Dr. Murray was happy with the agreement.

She said it would then be presented to MJ and his representatives for approval.

Bina: Did you ever send the signed agreement to MJ?

Jorrie: No, I didn’t.

B: Why not?

J: Michael Jackson passed away.

Jorrie used as template an independent contract agreement used in the King Tut exhibition.

It was between an individual and affiliate of AEG. There is no mention of artist consent in that contract, it was not a service to an artist

Jorrie said she took out the conflict provisions because they dealt with conflict of interest for the individual working for a competitor.

She said that provision was no applicable to Murray. Jorrie also took out provision “Intellectual Property” since it was not applicable also

Bina asked if Jorrie’s understanding was that Dr. Murray was making one million dollars a month.

She said he understood his medical practice brought in a million dollars, from which he had to pay his expenses, nurses, medical equipments.

Jorrie said from the conversation she had with Dr. Murray she did not understand he was going to close his medical practices to go on tour.

He told me he was leaving the practices to go on tour with MJ, Jorrie explained. Dr. Murray never told her he was closing his practices.

Jorrie found that there were two places of businesses associated with Dr. Murray and his medical licenses.

Jorrie: I found Dr. Murray was licensed to practice medicine in 4 states, no disciplinary action against him in any state.

The clinics she found were in Nevada and Texas, Jorrie said. “The 2 places of businesses that I assumed were clinics.”

Jorrie: It was just spot check, I checked his medical licenses, there were no disciplinary actions, company was legit, everything matched.

I had no reason to doubt the information given to me was incorrect, Jorrie said. “There were no red flags.”

Jorrie: I didn’t think it was my place to check Michael Jackson’s physician, who he had for many years.

Jorrie said GCA Holdings was a legitimate company, its license had not be suspended.

Panish then did re-cross of Jorrie.

Panish: Did you bill AEG for the research you did?

Jorrie: It was 10 minutes of research and it was part of preparation of Murray’s contract

Jorrie explained she would not have entered into the invoice a spot check of Dr. Murray’s licenses/company.

Panish: Does your time entry has anything about check you did on Murray? Jorrie said she needs to look at the documents to refresh memory.

Jorrie said a red flag is when things come up that alerts her to evaluate further.

Panish: There were no red flags raised in the 10-minute search you did on Dr. Murray, correct?

Jorrie: That’s correct.

Jorrie said she was checking to make sure the information Dr. Murray gave her were correct.

Panish: Did you ever do a google search for Michael Jackson Company?

Jorrie: No.

Jorrie said she went on to the Delaware Secretary of the State website to check Michael Jackson’s company.

Panish: MJ’s company was a sole member LLC, wasn’t it?

Jorrie: That I don’t recall when I looked at it.

Jorrie said she believes she has a copy of the Delaware Secretary of the State of when she checked MJ’s company.

Panish: Did you bill your client for that work?

Jorrie: I don’t recall, I have to look at the time and see whether or not I billed them.

Jorrie said she never received any document from Shawn Trell stating anyone else as officer of Michael Jackson’s company.

Panish: Did you ever contact Delaware Secretary of State to see if Dr. Tohme was an officer of MJ LLC?

Jorrie: No.

Jorrie did not contract John Branca, co-executor to be, to check if Dr. Tohme was an officer of MJ’s LLC.

Jorrie said Mr. Tohme did not sign the consent document in her presence. She gave him the document for review.

Panish: Were you aware Dr. Tohme was supposed to get paid $200,000 for signing this document?

Jorrie: I wasn’t aware, sir.

Panish: Were you aware the budget called to pay Dr. Murray $450,000?

Jorrie: I was not aware, sir.

She testified she never asked Branca if Tohme was officer of MJ’s company.

Jorrie said the budget had to be approved prior to any payment.

Jorrie said she saw Dr. Murray was licensed for cardiovascular something. He was also licensed in internal medicine.

Panish asked if there’s such a things as cardiovascular license. “I told you what I remember seeing,” Jorrie explained.

Panish: Did you see his internal medicine license had lapsed in 2008?

Jorrie: No, I don’t remember seeing it.

Panish: Is your testimony that Dr. Murray was licensed in internal medicine and cardiovascular?

Jorrie: It’s my testimony under oath that’s what I saw 4 years ago, yes.

Jorrie said she told Dr. Murray he would get paid once the contract was fully executed.

Jorrie sent all drafts of the contract to Trell and AEG, but never sent them to Michael Jackson or his representatives.

This was the 1st time Jorrie negotiated a contract for an artist’s physician. She never researched about third party contract for artist/doc

Jorrie said she did not go out of her way to check Dr. Murray’s credit report, debts, outstanding child support claims.

Panish asked if Jorrie was copied on any of the chain email “Trouble at the Front.” She said she was not.

Jorrie said the only medical check she’s aware of that Michael Jackson underwent was for the insurance company.

Jorrie said Howard Weitzman may have told her about the dispute in termination of Dr. Tohme.

In re-re-direct, Bina asked: Why didn’t you ask John Branca if Dr. Tohme was officer of the company?

Jorrie said Branca was a co-executor to be and she believed he would not know the answer. He had been MJ’s attorney for a week.

Jorrie thought Dr. Tohme would be the most appropriate to ask whether he was an officer of MJ’s company or not.

Bina: Did you think there was conflict of interest in the contract? “I believe that there wasn’t contractual conflict of interest” Jorrie said

Jorrie explained MJ and Dr. Murray’s interests were aligned, to treat him and keep him healthy while performing at the O2 arena.

In re-re-cross, Panish asked if Jorrie has expertise in medical conflict of interest. She said she’s not an expert in medical conflict.

Jorrie said she read that Branca represented MJ about 10 years before.

Panish: AEG didn’t have to have a contract with Dr. Murray, right?

Jorrie: It was an accommodation, sir.

Panish asked if there was anything preventing AEG from preparing the contract with Dr. Murray and giving it to MJ. She said no.

In re-re-re-direct, Bina asked if MJ specifically asked AEG to draft the contract for Dr. Murray and advance funds necessary?

Jorrie: Yes

in re-re-re-cross, Panish rebutted: And AEG could’ve refused it, right?

Jorrie: Yes

Jorrie was then excused. Judge broke session for lunch. We are waiting for trial to resume, since judge is dealing with other matters.

AEG changed witnesses. They will play video deposition of Dr. Gordon Sasaki, a plastic surgeon of Pasadena, CA.

The other witness scheduled is Randy Jackson, also via video deposition.


AEG claims Randy doesn’t want to come testify in person; Jacksons say AEG doesn’t want him to come in person. What do you think is true?

We’ll bring you complete coverage of this afternoon’s session as soon as we are able to tweet. Remember, per judge, no live tweets.

Everyone still in the hallway waiting. Fans, reporters and many lawyers on stand by.

Back in session…

Jessica Stebbins Bina said AEG is calling Randy Jackson via video deposition.

Q- Question (by an attorney)

A- Answer (by Randy Jackson)

First deposition was on Nov 6, 2012.

Q: Do you know Grace Rwamba?

A:Yes, and fired her too.

Q: Why?

A: Because he asked me to.

Q: Your brother Michael did?

A: Yes

Randy said he and Michael were pretty close, since they were close in age.

The attorneys stipulated the firing occurred in 2004/2005.

Randy said he doesn’t remember when it was the last time he spoke with MJ. He said MJ was traveling.

Q: Did you call him in 2009?

A: I don’t remember

Q: Did you see him in 2009?

A: I don’t remember

Randy said Frank DiLeo was MJ’s manager. “From what I understand until my brother passed,” he explained.

There was a time he was the manager, then not manager, then manager again, Randy said.

Q: Your brother didn’t want to see you and you went to see him?

A: Yes

Q: Couple occasions?

A: Yes, 3 or 4 times

I wanted to make sure he was ok, Randy testified.

MJ’s brother said one intervention was in Vegas, then in NY then LA. Randy remembered 3 times and intervention being attempted.

Because I had received call that he had been abusing prescription drugs, Randy said. Grace called him, he’s sure if she called anyone else.

Randy said it was around the time of the trial, doesn’t know if before or after, not sure.

MJ was staying in Vegas. Randy said he went there with Jackie, Rebbie, maybe Janet, maybe Marlon.

Randy said he spoken with Grace, the other siblings spoke with her too. “We may have had a conference call.”

Q: Have you ever believed MJ was abusing prescription drugs before?

A: Yes.

Grace called Randy before about MJ using prescription drugs. He said she called him two or 3 times before.

Randy confronted MJ every time Grace called him.

Randy said security told him MJ didn’t want to see him. Just drive in and walked in the house. The gate was open, I just drove in walked in.

Q: Did you see MJ?

A: Yes. I told him him I was taking him to rehab,” Randy said. “He said he was not going. I said you are, he said I’m not.

MJ didn’t go to rehab. Randy said the other siblings told MJ the same thing, to go to rehab.

Q: Did he admit having a problem?

A: No

Q: Did he deny he had a problem with prescription drugs at that time?

A: No

Q: Did he say whether or not he had a problem with prescription drugs at that time?

A: No. No he didn’t say it

They were with MJ for 2 hours

Randy said MJ told him ‘Don’t worry, I’m okay. I’m not gonna go.’

Q: Did he seem ok?

A: At the time yes

Q: Did you leave thinking he had a problem?

A: Yes

Q: When was next discussion?

A: That may have been the last time, maybe. There were prior times.

It was just around the Santa Maria trial, Randy said. “It was after, I think.”

Q: Up until the time of his passing you never discussed it with him again?

A: No

Q: Why not?

A: I hadn’t gotten call from Grace or anyone

Randy said Leonard Rowe told him MJ may have problem with prescription drug. He guessed it was around time shows in London were being prepared

Randy: No, let me correct that. Initially we were playing on our tour, the brothers tour. There was concern then.

Q: Did you ever discuss that with your parents?

A: Yes

Q Their reaction?

A: Displeased

Q: With?

A: Him not getting the help that he needed.

Randy said he doesn’t know if the parents talked to MJ. Randy and Janet had a doctor in the mix for the Vegas intervention.

He was an experienced interventionist, Randy testified.

Q: How did you know that?

A: He told me

Q: Had you met him before?

A: No. Internet, maybe

Q: Was this Mr. Webb?

A: No. I don’t recall

Q: Besides siblings and the doctor was there somebody else who went?

A: I don’t recall who the 2nd guy was. I didn’t arrange it, Janet knew

They talked to MJ while there, Randy said. He doesn’t rememeber specifically what was said, but that the family loved him, wanted to help.

Randy said he met the interventionist doctor at Madeo for lunch, probably met doctor one time prior as well.

He said he wanted to know just what they do and what is the procedure here, what they suggest.

Randy discussed MJ’s stint in rehab before with the singer. Randy said he thinks it was one time that MJ was in rehab.

Randy said he told the doctor there had been prior attempts to get MJ help and they weren’t successful, needed professional help.

Randy discussed with the doctors the attempted interventions. Randy did not speak with the doctors again after that.

Besides Michael, just security was present.

Q: You mentioned another one in NY?

A: Yes

Randy believes the NY attempt happened prior to the Vegas time. He said he was worried about MJ, about “prescription,” “prescription abuse.”

Grace had called Randy each time. Janet, Rebbie and Tito were with Randy in NY. It happened in early to mid-2000.

Grace called him, he called the family, other family members, Rebbie, Tito, Janet, Randy said.

You need to get down here, Randy said Grace told him. She didn’t need to say anything else. “Because, my brother,” Randy explained.

Randy went with family only to the NY intervention.

Q: Did he agreed to see you?

A: I guess, I just walked in.

He wouldn’t go Randy said about his attempt to take MJ to rehab.

Q: Did you tell him to go?

A: Yes

Q: Did he tell you he wouldn’t?

A: Yes

Randy doesn’t remember the details of the conversation, whether MJ admitted or not abusing prescription drugs.

MJ didn’t go to rehab, Randy didn’t tell the parents, he said he didn’t want to stress them out.

Randy called Grace. “She told me that he cleaned up,”

Q: How?

A: Because I was there, probably.

Randy testified the brothers just talked to him. “Just tell him that his family loves him, concerned for him.”

Q: Did he clean up after LV intervention?

A: Yes

Randy: He stopped using these things, as fas as I know, he stopped using it. I learned it from Grace, pretty much Grace.

Randy doesn’t know how he cleaned up. The intervention at the Ranch occurred after NY. He got a call from Grace “You need to get down here.”

Randy told siblings, Rebbie, brothers, Janet. They had another conference call. The parents were not on the call.

Randy: I think my mom found out about the Grace.

My family went with me, he said.

Q: Did you mom go?

A: I think so. Janet, Rebbie, no Marlon, not sure LaToya, no Jermaine, Tito maybe, Jackie

Randy said he just walked in. One the brothers went over fence to open the gate

Q: Because security won’t let you in?

A: Yes. We don’t ask

MJ didn’t want to go to rehab that time either. The brothers stayed a few hours. It was just family, no doctors.

Q: Believe your brother had problem with prescription drug?

A: Yes

Q: Did MJ deny he had a prob with prescription drugs?

A: Yes

Q: He also refused to go to rehab?

A: Yes

I didn’t believe him, Randy testified.

Just leaving there all the brother talked about it, Randy said. Other family members didn’t believe him either.

My mom didn’t believe it, Randy explained. “But it’s my mom, she didn’t want to believe it.”

After the Las Vegas intervention, Randy said he watched MJ clean up. He was around, it was around Santa Maria trial.

He just did it and got ready for the trial, Randy explained. MJ never discussed any drug problem with Randy ever.

They were at the Ranch for 2/3 hours. Randy discussed with MJ the Ranch intervention after.

I told him I wanted him to go to the therapist with me, Randy described. He said this was after Santa Maria trial, which took over things

Randy said he went to visit Frank DiLeo in the hospital after he was in a coma. He knew DiLeo for 20-30 years.

Randy learned DiLeo came back as MJ’s while the O2 show was being put together.

Q: Was he a good manager?

A: Yes

Q: Did MJ talk to you about his burned scalp?

A: Yes. He said it was painful.

I went to visit him at the hospital, Randy said about MJ. He never discussed with MJ insomnia, sleeping problems.

Randy did not know about MJ taking anesthesiologists on tour.

Randy said he never saw MJ take prescription drugs or illegal drugs. He never heard of propofol or diprivan prior to MJ’s death.

Q: Did your brother ever discuss taking medication to sleep?

A: No

I never got a call about illegal drugs, Randy explained.

Q: When did you first come to believe MJ had a prob with prescription drugs?

A: I guess it was Grace.

The first time was in Los Angeles, she called me, Randy said. It was around 2000, year 2000.

She just told me she was concerned, Randy described. “Because he was using prescription medication too much.”

Q: What medicine?

A: Sedatives, whatever they call them, sedatives.

Randy didn’t talk to MJ about it at this point. He talked to Rebbie. “I was investigating about it, talking to people around him.”

Randy: Also, as I recall, I tried calling a doctor in Vegas and a doctor in Florida, but they wouldn’t talk to me about it.

Randy said he forgot the doctors’ names. He talked to doctor friends he knew about his concerns of MJ’s prescription drug abuse.

Q: Was he addicted?

A: I don’t know, I wasn’t sure, I wasn’t clear on it.

Randy: Just excessive use, maybe, I don’t know if I would call that an addict, I’m not a doctor.

Q: Did he ever tell you he had a problem with prescription drugs?

A: No.

Q: Did you ever discuss you believed your brother had a problem with prescription drugs with your mother?

A: Yes

That was after the second attempted intervention at Neverland, Randy testified, which was the same as the one his mother attended.

Randy said he had a phone call with his mother, he initiated the conversation.

I told her that we need to plan an intervention and that, her being a mother, because she was there.

Q: Did your mother ever tell you she believed your brother had problem with prescription drugs?

A: No, no, she didn’t tell me that believed

Randy said he and his father tried to call MJ while he lived at Carolwood home. “We were unsuccessful,” he said.

Randy: There was a drug issue. He wasn’t eating. All of these things were happening at the same time. And, you know, a lot of pressure.

Randy: Leonard Rowe was involved very much in the shows and was giving reports to me that he didn’t look too good.

Randy said they were concerned about prescription abuse around the time MJ was living at the Carolwood house.

Randy had already selected a rehab facility to take MJ. It was in the Bay area, San Francisco. The same place were interventionist worked

Randy said his brother didn’t drink. “I never seen him drink alcohol.”

Q: From 2000 until the time that your brother passed were there periods you believed he didn’t problem with prescription drugs?

A: Yes

Second part of the deposition was taped on March 26, 2013.

Randy said Michael enjoyed touring.

Q: Why do you say that?

A: Well, because we like to tour, perform.

Q: Did you ever see any signs he was on prescription meds on tour?

A: No.

Other than the times Randy described in the last deposition, she said saw signs MJ was on prescription medications at home.

Randy said this was in 2005 at the Shadow Wood home in Beverly Hills. “He was under the influence of something.”

Randy said his speech was slurred. Then Grace, his nanny, would tell me all the time, “You need to get over here. Something’s not right.”

I went over to help him out and take everything away as I could, Randy testified.

Grace called Randy again to come over. “She needed help with him. He wasn’t doing so well.”

Randy: We had discussed this before, so I kind of knew what was going on.

Q: And what did you see when you went over there?

A: He was certainly under the influence of something that was altering his normal way of functioning. I tried to get him some help.

Randy said he tried to take everything away, from Grace too. “It was ironic because she was giving it to him but complaining about it.”

Randy said some prescription drugs were in Grace’s name. “It was upsetting to me. I think she had a hard time saying no to him.”

Q: You just looked around the house and took bottles?

A: I made her show where everything was.

Randy: Because what good would it be to help him if you’re leaving stuff there?

Randy said there wasn’t much to talk to MJ then. “Yes, I could talk to him but I’d pick my moments. I’d wait till he’d be a bit more in tune

Q: Did he tell you what he was taking specifically?

A: No

Q: Did you do anything else besides take it away?

A: I went downstairs, I think he had some friends over. And I went downstairs to eat something.

Randy: They ran downstairs and told me that he had collapsed. And I went upstairs. I picked him up, put him on the bed, it was pretty late.

Randy: And as I recall, I called my doctor who lived literally around the corner. My doctor came over and took care of him, said he’ll be ok

Randy said the doctor gave MJ something that would counter, help counter whatever it is he had done.

Just let him rest it off. Somebody should sleep next to him, make sure he doesn’t vomit or choke, anything like that, doctor told Randy.

Randy instructed one of the Cascios to sleep next to MJ. He stayed overnight as well.

Next morning, Randy said MJ was sleeping pretty late. “I wanted to make sure he was ok, then I left,” he said.

Randy asked MJ next day if he remembered what happened. He said MJ replied “no, no, but I heard.”

He said he took it to help him sleep, and he said it was a mistake and that he was sorry about it, Randy testified.

I was just kind of taken aback by it, maybe, he said.

Q: Did you have concerns about MJ at that point?

A: Yes

Randy: I staged several interventions and set up, tried to get him help many times.

Q: You mentioned Grace would call but was getting him medication?

A: Yes. A few times I would meet her at the pharmacy.




Las Vegas

Q: Were there any other?

A: It was more than one at Neverland.

There were a few over there. I don’t know, maybe 4 or 5, Randy responded. It was around 2004, 2005. Or 2005-06.

Randy said he was spending a lot of time with him, so he kind of got close look at what was going on.

Randy wrote letters to my family about MJ’s problem and that they had to do something to help.

Q: Who did you send the letter to?

A: Everybody, copied everybody. I made sure everybody knew it.

Randy: He’s an addict, and at this point, addicts aren’t so responsible for what they do.

Randy:  So this is where the family needs to step in and do something about it because their desire becomes physical.

Q: Did you send it to your mother as well?

A: Everybody got a copy of it.

He wrote the letter down on paper and had assistant copy it. He said not  everybody in his family looks at email.

Q: Did you get responses?

A: I think everyone was in shock, maybe a little denial. I always got responses, my dad, Rebbie and Janet, always

Randy: No, my mon no. As a mom, I guess maybe it was hard for her, you know, for a mother to see that.

The 4-5 interventions at Neverland were between 2004-2006. “One of them included my mom,” Randy said.

Rebbie and Janet went on all of them, except one or two.

Q: Describe the 3-4 additional interventions:

A: First one at Neverland, not the one that KJ was present. Janet, myself, Rebbie. Maybe my mom was at that one. I think my mom was there.

Katherine was at one intervention only, Randy said. “That must’ve been the first one, around 2002-2003, at Neverland.

Randy said Rebbie and Janet were always supportive, always with him. “My dad also.”

Q: What happened when you arrived at Neverland?

A: I think that time he wasn’t there.

Randy didn’t speak with MJ that day. He said people would tip MJ off. “So it’s bad news. Randy’s coming to shake things up.”

After Vegas, there were no more interventions, Randy said. “I tried to get him help but I couldn’t get as many people to stage intervention”

Randy tried to jump the gate a few times. “My dad and I tried a few times to get him help.”

Shadow Wood home was 50-thousand square feet. Randy said he hated it, it was just too big.

Randy: Michael wouldn’t want to really be around his family too much, I think because he didn’t want us to see him that way, specially me

Q: Could you give a range if years that this was happening?

A: It happened over a period of time, when I was, he stopped doing it also.

Randy: When I was helping with the situation in Santa Maria I was able to make it stop. I fired Grace, stopped it from coming in.

Randy said MJ would really, really enjoyed being around his children. He would cook for them.

He was in a great place, Randy said. “Then Grace came back around and he started using it again. I was very pissed off about it.”

Randy said he started right before Santa Maria trial but he got MJ clean. He told Rebbie “don’t leave his side” because I didn’t trust Grace

Randy: I fired her again, I noticed when she was around there was a pattern. Whenever she’s around, he’s wasted. So I fired her again.

Q: Were all of the interventions before the Santa Maria trial?

A: There was one after, the Vegas was after.

Randy: He was using it again because there was a… it was quite disturbing to me.

Randy: There was a People Magazine article coming out talking about his drug use. Grace told him that I was behind putting this article out.

Randy: Grace and actually Raymone Bain because I fired them both.

I fired them both that’s probably what they said it, Randy opined. “It had nothing to do with me.”

Randy said MJ got people in his family to sign a letter that was on People Mag saying he never used drugs. “I was really disturbed by that.”

He said he wasn’t behind the article, but didn’t sign the letter. Janet, Rebbie and his dad didn’t sign it either.

The letter was MJ’s idea, Randy said.

Q: Did you mom sign it?

A: My mom, LaToya, all my brothers.

Randy: My mom, you know, she would never want to believe it. She’s a mom, you know. I felt bad for my her.

Randy: Did she ever believe he had a problem? Yeah, but I  think she was in denial, she didn’t want to believe it.

Randy: MJ didn’t want to talk to me too much. Because maybe I wasn’t afraid to say no to him.

Randy: He would get physical with me, I wouldn’t be afraid to say no. But he was 90 pounds, it wouldn’t do much.

Randy said MJ was really scared before the Santa Maria trial. And somehow Grace was able to get him something.

Randy: He didn’t want to go to court. He didn’t show up to court. And I was freaking out because it was on the news.

Randy: I went to hospital MJ said “I don’t know what you’re thinking. I’m not walking into that courtroom so don’t even think about it Randy

Randy: And I said “Okay, but you are going to court.” He goes “No, I’m not.”

Q: Was he in the hospital because he had reaction to his drug use?

Randy: No. He was in the hospital because he didn’t want to go to court.

Randy said that when Grace was around MJ, he was under the some kind  of influence. “But we had him go to court and had the doctor with him”

Randy: Then I later found out she had gotten him a patch. I was livid.

Randy doesn’t know what kind of patch it was.

He said MJ had slurry speech. “He was really frightened to go to that courtroom.”

Randy: He didn’t know who to trust, because people around him were lying to him, telling him things just to secure their positions.

Those were the only two times Randy saw him under the influence. “I’d get calls from Grace all the time,” he said.

Randy said the last time Grace called was a long time ago. “I made my presence known, there wasn’t lot more. She didn’t need to call.”

Randy: He was doing good in Ireland from what I recall. 06-7, 07-08 around that time.

Q: Do you know if he slept well while on tour?

A: He slept well

Randy said MJ had no issues sleeping that he knew of.

Randy: My dad and I tried to get the house at Carolwood. They wouldn’t let me through. My brother didn’t want me to see him like that.

Q: Who did you see there?

A: Security guard.

They told Randy “he’s not here, he’s not there.” Randy questioned if he wasn’t there why they had the gate closed. “Open it up, no big deal”

After being turned down, Randy would then go home.

Q: After Carolwood, did you or father take any other action?

A: No, after that time no.

Randy talked about interventions in NY, Neverland, Las Vegas. And there was another intervention in Taiwan.

Q: Did you go to Taiwan?

A: Yes, with Rebbie and some family members

MJ was doing shows in Taiwan.

Randy said what spurred him to go to Taiwan was the fact that he needed help, he was far away, we said we need to go.

Randy: I dind’t know anything but we had heard things. That’s why we were there.

Randy: I dind’t know anything but we had heard things. That’s why we were there.

Randy said in Taiwan they visited him, gave him family love, wanted to make him feel comforted so he wouldn’t think about doing those things

Q: Did he seem he was using drugs at that time?

A: Yes, his speech was slurred, but nothing terrible.

That was probably the first one, the first intervention, Randy said.

Q: Was MJ isolating himself?

A: Yeah, he would do that.

Q: Was he doing it in the 5 years before his death? Isolated?

A: Oh, parts, parts of it.

Q: Did you speak with him regularly?

A: I don’t talk to anyone in my family regularly.

Sometimes he would isolate himself because he didn’t want people to hear his voice Randy said.

Q: Because he might be using drugs?

A: Yes

Randy: After MJ died, everyone was shocked. I was really displeased with all the stuff that was going on in court with Branca, Weitzman.

Randy: We were still trying to figure out how to grieve, and these people are in court, and will, and this nonsense.

I haven’t even buried my brother yet, Randy said.

Randy said he pushed everything to the side and was getting together this memorial for him and did it with AEG, Kenny Ortega and those guys.

Q: Did you have a positive experience with AEG?

A: Horrible! (laughs) No, I’m just joking. They were nice. They were very nice.

Randy: I practically slept there to put the show together.

Q: Do you recall telling Randy Phillips that you see that Michael was fortunate to have AEG involved in his return to the stage?

A: I don’t remember saying that, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t say it. I kind of felt that way at the time.

That was the end of Randy’s deposition. Court adjourned until Monday at 10 am PT. AEG has not announced who the next witness is.

We hope to see you then for full coverage of the trial. For the latest, watch @ABC7 and . Have a great weekend!

65 Comments leave one →
  1. alice permalink
    August 12, 2013 11:51 pm

    Thanks for the news summary, Helena, very comprehensive 🙂
    First of all, I feel your analysis of AEG’s current position in this case is spot on.
    It’s also very interesting to see how much we do miss without full transcripts in the news mix, isn’t it? Sidebars and the intricacies of objections etc tell us so much.
    But it is good to have the reflection of these sources comparing, as you do (though you do a much better job of course!), new statements with old ones.

    Case in point from ABC news:
    “I recalled that Dr. Murray was going to be responsible for the schedule, Ortega said.
    Earlier in the trial, Ortega testified rehearsal schedule and attendance was up to Dr. Murray and Randy Phillips.”

    I know I’ve been saying that I’m trying to reserve my judgement on Kenny as it’s clear he did love and care for Michael. I would still like to give him, Travis, and particularly Randy the benefit of the doubt. But you’re not making it easy for me, Kenny! Haha, oh dear 😦
    I’m growing increasingly concerned by the ease with which we can infer that Kenny’s preoccupation with his own career and connections with AEG may be affecting his testimony. Perhaps he is too worried about burning his professional bridges by directly implicating AEG members. This is a big shame, if so. I also feel, as you indicated Helena, there is nothing of massive importance we have really learned from his testimony which concurrently makes me notice even more why his answers to much the same topics have, as exampled above, changed ever so slightly since his original testimony.
    Indeed, the point of bringing him back again also seems elusive. What has it achieved?
    Also, as we know from the invaluable transcripts and detailed sidebar discussions in them where scheduling of witnesses is discussed, it was incredibly difficult for Kenny to fit this return into his schedule – he is starting work on a new Disney movie.
    So the question is, as you say, – why?? Why make it difficult for him?? Why insist??
    Conversely, I wonder – why were AEG so accommodating to get Kenny back on the stand and yet so quick to tell the judge there was no way Randy could make it in and were so unwilling to accommodate his being there in person?
    It seems AEG were willing to move mountains to get Kenny back.
    But how the sands shifted when the choice between running an editable video deposition and examining an un-editable Randy in person arose.
    As a side question, do we know if any of the other Jackson family will testify, apart from Rebbie? Perhaps Janet? I wonder if she could perhaps clarify the specifics of the interventions with greater sensitivity than Randy obviously did.
    Just a few of my stray thoughts.
    There are a lot more I have on the lie-infested filth that was Kathy Jorrie’s testimony.
    What a piece of work she is.


  2. alice permalink
    August 12, 2013 11:53 pm

    Ugh! Again, proofreading was clearly not at the front of my mind just now…
    For my post below, I said: “Perhaps he is too worried about his professional burning bridges by directly implicating AEG members.”

    When I should have said: “Perhaps he is too worried about burning his professional bridges by directly implicating AEG members.”

    It’s a good thing I’m not on the witness stand! Haha, Panish would have a field day with me.

    * * *
    vmj: Alice, I’ve corrected it.


  3. August 13, 2013 2:45 am

    Helena, thank you for your hard work.
    I love you my dear Always.


  4. alice permalink
    August 13, 2013 2:54 am

    Hi all!

    I’ve been scrolling back through the years of Kenny’s official twitter.
    Here are some interesting ones that jumped out at me for their dates, references to rehearsals and Michael, plus other happenings leading up to the sad June 25 day.

    Make of them what you will, everyone…. keep in mind that keeping up the illusion of progress would have been in everyone’s interests at the time to pulling off a successful tour…. what I am interested in these mostly for their dates and the fact he notes when Michael is there, what else Kenny is up to at the time, and how all of these tweets compare to both of his testimonies now. Interesting…

    Without further ado:

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 11 Jun 09
    Another amazing day with MJ. He has been an inspiration from day one. His heart and imagination are in every part of THIS IS IT! Peace out!

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 13 Jun 09
    Workin late hours to get it all right. Thanks for your patience, we’re bringing you the magic soon. Peace and Love KO

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 13 Jun 09
    I’m off to rehearsal. I promise to send your love and praises to the MAN! Peace my peeps. Love somebody 🙂

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 14 Jun 09
    Rehearsals have been awesome! The Band, Dancers, Singers and entire Team are so dedicated. MJ feels your love Peeps! Keep it coming 🙂 xo

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 14 Jun 09
    I’m off to the airport, a quick overnighter. Catch me if you can haha. Ciao friends 🙂

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 14 Jun 09
    I’m in Vegas working on THE LAKE OF DREAMS. It’s a feature at the Wynn Hotel. Only 5 Star Hotel in Vegas. If you’re in town, check it out!

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 15 Jun 09
    Off to LA and rehearsals. I’m looking forward to a great week with MJ and the Team! Rock ON! TII ! COUNTDOWN TO LONDON @

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 15 Jun 09
    Kicking back with Manly after a great rehearsal. Thanks for putting out the tweets! We’ve grown to 1,452 only 550 more to reach 2002! TII !

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 16 Jun 09
    @ImInLoveWithMJ haha thanks buddy! You all Rock! Countdown to 02 continues. All is good 🙂

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 16 Jun 09
    Off for another day of rehearsal, and living the dream. Peace my Peeps!

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 18 Jun 09
    Rockin at rehearsal. Thinking of you guys. Hope you’re having a great night.

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 19 Jun 09
    10 more, it’s happening as I’m headed to my car to drive to rehearsal. Awesome Peeps. Sending a personal shout out soon! Thanks all!

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 20 Jun 09
    Have a Rockin Weekend my friends. Off to rehearsal and another day of magic and living the dream!

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 21 Jun 09
    Enjoying a restful day in the sun. Tomorrows rehearsal bring us another day closer to the dream. We feel your love & excitement! 21 days TII

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 21 Jun 09
    Sup Peeps? I’m in Vegas finishing up a project at the Wynn called the LAKE OF DREAMS. Did you know I choreographed the Bellagio Fountains?

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 22 Jun 09
    Good morning from Las Vegas Nevada 🙂 Wishing everyone a great week!

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 22 Jun 09
    Yes! REHEARSALS TODAY 🙂 Heading home in a few. 21 Days to TII Peace!

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 22 Jun 09
    Later Peeps, off and running. Have a good one .)

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 22 Jun 09
    Sweet Dreams All! I’m off to slumber. I have to rest up for a very big TII week. Imagination creates reality! Peace in Iran and the world!

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 24 Jun 09
    Rehearsal was awesome tonight. My lips are sealed as to any specifics, but know we’re back and we’re bad as ever 🙂 19 days and counting TII

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 25 Jun 09
    Great day at rehearsal! Enjoying a big bowl of cereal then reading Manly a bedtime story. Sweet dreams and tweets 19 and counting to TII!

    And, well, we know what happened next…


  5. Jimmy permalink
    August 13, 2013 3:28 am

    La traduction est déplorable je ne comprends rien dommage car les textes son intéressants


  6. August 13, 2013 4:43 am

    “La traduction est déplorable je ne comprends rien dommage car les textes son intéressants” – Jimmy

    Jimmy, try the Bing translator then:
    You can translate whole texts there.


  7. August 13, 2013 5:10 am

    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 11 Jun 09 “Another amazing day with MJ.”
    Kenny Ortega ‏@KennyOrtegaBlog 21 Jun 09 “Enjoying a restful day in the sun.” – Alice

    Very interesting indeed. June 11 is after several days of Michael’s rehearsals at the Forum but before June 13 when he was so tired that Conrad Murray gave him a sick leave, which in its turn was followed by a certain “intervention” on June 16-18.

    On June 18th Michael looked very frightened to Karen Faye.

    And on June 20th they had a panicky meeting following the June 19th rehearsal when Michael shook all over and was cold as ice. However after all that on June 21st Ortega is “enjoying a restful day in the sun”?

    I think that if it were not for this trial up to today we would be under the impression that Michael was thoroughly enjoying himself in his cooperation with AEG. And that he didn’t shed a single tear and didn’t have a single worry. They made his last days happy, warm and blissful, surrounding him with so much unimaginable love and peace…


  8. August 13, 2013 5:46 am

    “Indeed, the point of bringing him back again also seems elusive. What has it achieved?
    It seems AEG were willing to move mountains to get Kenny back.” – alice

    It is a very well planned strategy of AEG. At the beginning of the trial all those witnesses shocked the jury with the details they had to disclose to Panish and his team, and now the few chosen by Putnam are returning to tell a much more perfunctory story of the same with the AEG attorneys putting a lot of gloss and powder over their testimonies.

    It only seems that you hear the same but it is not the same. Most of the most dramatic details have long been forgotten while the points convenient for AEG are now singled out and focused on. And the jurors may not even remember what those witnesses said at the beginning. And the one who speaks last leaves the jury with the most lasting impression too. This is why AEG is summoning the same witnesses – they are trying to erase in the memory of the jury the shocking impression they initially had.

    The first time Ortega cried and now he is all smiles – “nothing bad happened, guys, life is going on”.

    That applause from the jury for Kenny Ortega is a very grave sign. I think it is a grave mistake on the part of the judge to allow all this coming and going with a 3 months span between the visits.


  9. August 13, 2013 5:56 am

    “Helena, thank you for your hard work. I love you my dear Always.” – mjjyo

    Thank you very much mjjyo. It is probably due to your and other people’s support that I still manage to go on despite all my fatigue. And on my part I want to thank all Japanese fans for the great love they gave to Michael, and the warmth and comfort of it. And the confidence he felt when he was in Japan. So few people made Michael happy and Japanese fans were always the ones. You can pride yourselves forever that among you Michael was happy without any reservation.


  10. alice permalink
    August 13, 2013 9:45 am

    Hey Helena!

    “That applause from the jury for Kenny Ortega is a very grave sign. I think it is a grave mistake on the part of the judge to allow all this coming and going with a 3 months span between the visits.”

    I did not like the sound of the applause either when we first read the brief mention of it, but I’ve been waiting anxiously for TeamMJ to upload the full transcript so I could read the details of the closing of Kenny’s testimony to get the full context of why they may have done it. There’s nothing specific in the court transcript about the applause itself, though you can interpret where probably it happens – at the point where the judge dismisses him and Kenny says thankyou a lot to everyone – “thankyou to mr panish, thankyou judge, thankyou…” then “thankyou ladies and gentlemen” (I expect this is where they have just clapped).
    However, the mention of banter-like questioning of Kenny by both attorneys Panish and Putnam does, I feel, factor somewhat into their applause.
    The judge’s allowance of both sides to couch their questioning in ‘responsibility’ towards the topic of hypothetical hirings of doctors means both end up being very obvious, quite funnily so, at the very end of the testimony. Like some of the other moments we’ve seen and heard about so far in the trial, there has been a bit of laughter and such going on in the courtroom. Not out of disrespect to the subject matter, mind you, but more from the proceedings that occur like that I outlined above.
    When you read the end of the transcript, I feel this situation is just an exaggerated moment of the other more ‘entertaining’ parts of the trial for the jury, if you like.
    Forgive my phrasing it all in this way, it’s just my crude way of offering one interpretation as to why they applauded (and not just solely for Kenny’s testimony itself).
    Effectively, we could infer that they are applauding out of appreciation for both the repartee at the end, the judge’s good humour to let it happen for a little, as well as Kenny’s own ability to continue answering sensibly and his patience addressing each question despite their obtuse ridiculousness.
    We could say that the jury were left in a good mood by this little play, and wanted to express their appreciation for it. However, I’m still hesitant to rule out the somewhat evasive and carefully altered answers of Kenny’s as being very troublesome to the jury’s views.
    I do see your opinion Helena as being incredibly valid; there is no doubt that a lot of whitewashing is and will continue to be done by AEG attorneys.
    I sincerely hope Panish can keep on top of this and not let the excellent work exposing all the vile truths about the defendants earlier on be forgotten.

    The transcripts for Kenny’s latest testimony have just been added today by TeamMJ.
    Link here:
    And I will try and embed here below as well:
    Jackson V AEG Live August 8th 2013 Transcripts of Kenneth Ortega (This Is It Director/Creator)

    The ‘funny’ parts (for want of a better phrase, I’m sorry) begin leading in from about page 100, and then kick into gear from about 108 onwards. I’m yet to read the entire thing yet, but I just wanted to skip down to those sections to try and understand the applause.


  11. August 13, 2013 10:03 am

    I would have no idea what is going on with this trial if it wasn’t for this site.Thank you Helena.

    Randy: I didn’t know anything but we had heard things. That’s why we were there.
    This is obvious from his testimony; most of what he spoke about Michael’s drug use was speculation. Katherine was the only one that had real access to Michael on a constant basis.


  12. August 13, 2013 10:44 am

    Here is the news of Mr. Ackerman’s testimony on Monday August 12, 2013.

    William Ackerman charged a lot too ($800,000) but the job he did was indeed extensive. The picture of Michael’s finances he portrayed is sad but he didn’t make any accusations of Michael about his “lavish style and spending”.

    Most of the money Michael spent was to repay the interest on the loans taken.

    The first debt occurred as early as 1993 and was accumulating since then. It was most probably connected with the need to pay for cancelling the Dangerous tour. At that time Marcel Avram wanted $40 mln. and we know that Michael settled with him. Simultaneously the Chandlers demanded $30 mln (and got $15,3) and now I see that Michael himself was interested in the insurance company to stop that case and pay to the Chandlers as the cost of litigation could have been incredibly high and would hamper his capability to earn money in the future.

    The calculations below require a good analysis, but one thing I am happy about is that these figures will finally put a stop to idle talk about MJ never having a debt and all the money earned by the Estate being misused. Another thing these figures explain is that Michael was creating a sort of a show when in Bashir’s film he was buying vase after vase at $100,000 each. He was trying to produce the impression that he could afford it – while in reality he didn’t need any of it and could make do with very little. The show was most probably meant for his creditors.

    Ackerman confirmed that Neverland with its amusement parks and great many employees consumed a lot of money. Ackerman also said that Michael was generous and helped others a lot.

    And AEG is stingy. For 50 strenous concerts these people were going to pay Michael only $22 mln with all the rest of it going into their pockets. After reading the calculations below one strange thought crossed my mind – I very much wish Michael were alive, but I am happy he did not have to do those 50 shows and did not receive his pauper’s $22 mln for that. After doing so great a job getting so little money would be a terrible insult and seeing him deceived again is an extremely painful thought – even for us, simple onlookers.

    MONDAY AUGUST 12, 2013:

    Forensic accountant William Ackerman is today’s witness. He’ll be testifying about Jackson’s financial history, spending.
    Testimony got a late start (abt 50 minutes) because attorneys were arguing issues about Ackerman’s opinions and whether he could testify.
    Plaintiff’s attorney Brian Panish argued that Ackerman’s testimony should be blocked because it was cumulative.
    Panish argued that another defense witness, Eric Briggs, had testified about Jackson’s debts and Ackerman’s opinion would be redundant.
    AEG Live’s lawyers however argued that Ackerman’s opinion was about Jackson’s financial history and spending and weren’t duplicative.
    There are 200,000 pages of Jackson’s financial records that form the basis of Ackerman’s opinion. Many are from the 2000s.

    The judge agreed to allow Ackerman to testify, but did tell AEG to take out certain pictures from slides that will be shown to the jury.
    For instance, the judge told AEG to take out slides showing a BMW and the Harvard logo. AEG said those were things Jackson’s children might be entitled to. Judge also said AEG shouldn’t show an image of Carolwood mansion to reflect the Jacksons’ housing

    When Ackerman took the stand _ 48 minutes after the jury was ordered to be at the courthouse _ he brought 2 large boxes of documents.
    Ackerman started pulling out binders large and small and stacking them behind him in the witness box. It took him 3 minutes to set up.

    He is a forensic accountant with the consulting firm Freeman and Mills Inc., which handles a lot of litigation-type cases.
    Ackerman said he has testified in approximately 60 trials and arbitration proceedings.
    He said his experience was pretty evenly split between being a witness for plaintiffs and defense cases.
    Ackerman’s firm has billed more than $800,000 for work in the case, which involved compiling Jackson’s financial history.
    His testimony so far has been interrupted by one sidebar so attorneys could again argue about slides, his testimony.
    Before the lunch break, he described in great detail Jackson’s debts and earnings. He said MJ died $400-500 million in debt.

    His underlying testimony so far has been to show that Jackson was spending millions more per year than he was earning in the 90s, 2000s.
    Many millions of dollars each year were spent repaying interest on loans, Ackerman said. He also didn’t have complete records on Jackson’s personal spending in the early 2000s, so he said his debts for that time period were probably higher than shown on his charts.
    In 2001, Ackerman Jackson’s income was about $15 million, but his expenses were roughly $32-33 million.
    One of his charts showed Jackson’s spending versus what plaintiff’s expert Arthur Erk calculated for MJ’s expenses.
    Erk projected that Jackson would spend roughly $7 million a year if he had lived. Ackerman said the historical figures were much higher.
    For instance, in 2009, Ackerman said Jackson would have spent close to $30 million on annual interest payments alone.
    The interest payments were for loans taken against his Sony-ATV and Mijac music catalogs and various properties (Neverland, Hayvenhurst.)

    Sabrina Strong did direct examination of Ackerman. She asked how tall he is. The expert said he’s 6’7″
    Ackerman was asked to determine the amount of support the plaintiffs received and could expect to receive had MJ lived.
    This afternoon, plaintiff’s attorneys argued that some of Ackerman’s slides and testimony should be stricken.
    Plaintiff’s lawyer Brian Panish says Ackerman’s testimony about Michael Jackson’s consumption, which includes interest payments, is improper
    Panish argued that Ackerman’s figures create an improper comparison to plaintiff’s expert Arthur Erk’s figures on MJ’s expenses.
    AEG Live’s lawyers say the issue can be fixed on cross-examination, but the judge wants to hear more arguments in the morning.
    Some of his testimony and charts shown to the jury may get stricken, but the judge made clear she wants to think about it some more.
    In the afternoon session, AEG Live defense attorney Sabrina Strong completed her direct examination. Panish started on his cross-examination

    After the lunch break, Ackerman reiterated a point he made this morning, that Jackson was “tapped out,” meaning he couldn’t borrow any more.
    Ackerman also told the jury that one major piece of Jackson’s debt was a $300 million loan against his share of the Sony-ATV catalog
    The note on the Sony-ATV catalog loan would have come due in 2010, Ackerman said. Defaulting on the loan would impact MJ’s income, he said.
    Ackerman also told the jury about missed payments on Jackson’s Neverland property and on his family’s Hayvenhurt home.
    “He dug himself a pretty good hole,” Ackerman said of Jackson’s debt, adding that he isn’t sure MJ could have continued to support his family at the same level that he had been supporting them. He pegged that figure at about $3.5 million/year for Katherine, MJ’s kids.

    The $3.5 million figure was Ackerman’s estimate of support Jackson was providing his family in 2009.
    The consultant gave detailed breakdowns of how he arrived at those figures for the jury through various slides showing payment breakdowns.
    The slides showed how much was spent on security, schooling, utilities, food and other expenses for Katherine & the kids.
    Ackerman then went into another set of figures, which were projected levels of support based on risk calculations he said are commonly made.
    Part of his analysis involved estimating Katherine Jackson’s life expectancy until about age 89 based on a table used in court proceedings.
    Ackerman made no projection of how long MJ’s life-expectancy would have been, but projected out his likely level of support for 15 years.
    The bottom line figure of his projection was $21.5 million dollars for Jackson’s mother and children if MJ had lived for 15 ½ years past ‘09
    The chart was basically a sliding scale, allowing the jury to see Jackson’s projected support if they think his life expectancy was shorter.
    Ackerman said he was asked to try to determine the amount of support plaintiffs would received/could expect to receive had MJ lived.

    Scope of Work – Michael Jackson’s finances – Support, contributions, gifts and benefits – Present value Calculation
    Ackerman explained he developed what we would describe as a financial profile of Michael Jackson.

    Ackerman said he/his firm reviewed over 200,000 pages of documents. About 10 people in his office worked in reviewing these documents.
    Strong showed Ackerman a question that was posed to Arthur Erk. He was asked if he reviewed thousand of documents in this case.
    Erk responded he had access to them but decided to read only what he thought was pertinent.
    Erk’s testimony: Otherwise we’d spend millions of dollars and I didn’t think this was necessary.
    Ackerman said he reviewed all docs, didn’t amount to millions of dollars. He testified his firm spent between 2800 – 3000 hours on this case
    Ackerman said it probably took well over 2000 hours just to read all the documents. He spent between 650 and 700 hours alone.
    Ackerman’s hourly rate is $475. Other people in his firm charge between $325 to $75 an hour.
    “We submitted invoices in excess of $800,000″ Ackerman testified. He said he doesn’t know how it’s possible to opine without reading all
    Ackerman said he looked at books and records for Michael Jackson and was asked to measure what MJ paid to plaintiffs for support.
    Ackerman: I think it’s important to share with jury that there was some doubt of his ability to continue to provide support.

    A. Spending Exceeded Income
    B. Growing and Significant Debt
    C. Profile of Financial Condition
    “MJ’s spending exceeded his income on an annual basis,” Ackerman testified.
    “He had significant debt over time, the interest had become more and more burdensome to meet,” Ackerman described.
    Ackerman said he put together a profile of Michael Jackson’s financial condition.
    He said he focused on 2001 to June 2009 period, since the financial information was the most complete during this period.
    Ackerman: During the last decade of his life the primary source of income was Sony/ATV catalogue and his own MIJAC catalogue.

    Ackerman said the Sony/ATV catalogue merged in 1995. As part of deal, MJ received a substantial amount of money.
    The expert said MJ was to continue to receive $6.5 million every year for royalties and $11 million from 2008 and forward until 2014.
    Ackerman: MJ had ATV catalogue alone and received $115 million over a three year period of time for the merge with Sony’s catalogue in 1995.

    Ackerman said MJ paid $49,5 million dollars for the ATV catalogue, which then was merged with Sony.
    Ackerman said MJ had multiple corporations. He said most of his expenses were from one of his entities and not by himself as a person.
    Ackerman testified that some times the spending on a given company would be bigger than the income, would have a loss.

    Michael Jackson Company is the corporation that entered into an agreement with AEG.
    Strong showed a chart of MJ’s Finances — Spending Exceeded Income 2001: $17 million in income $33/34 million in expenses
    MJ’s Finances in 2008: $26 million in income $42 million in expenses
    Ackerman said 2002, 2003 and 2004 there were no personal expenditures record. So they were not included in the graphic.
    The expert said those were the years MJ was living at Neverland Ranch. And no expenses were reported.
    Ackerman said there were not a lot of books and records provided for the year 2007. MJ had some sort of dispute with his business manager.
    Ackerman said MJ was spending $15-20 million a year on average more than his income.
    Michael Jackson’s Finances — Expenses Erk: $6.8 million in consumption

    Strong: What things did you see MJ would spend?
    Ackerman: The large expenditures was in interest.

    Ackerman: All expenses of the different businesses he had, payroll, Neverland Ranch was very expensive to maintain.
    Ackerman said MJ was a generous man and donated a lot money to charity. He also gave a lot of gifts to different people at different times.

    The expert said he had to take care of the animals at Neverland, had people on the payroll, spent half a million dollars in amusement rides.
    Ackerman said Michael Jackson had to take on more and more debt to keep going, since income was not sufficient.

    Strong showed chart with MJ’s Interest on Debt, which is the amount of incurred interest over the years.
    Ackerman said from 2001/2004 the annual interest on debt was from $13 to $15 million 2005: $20 million 2006: $25 million 2009: $30 million
    “This is the cost to rent somebody else’s money,” Ackerman explained. He said the interest rate was 16,8%, almost 17%.

    Ackerman said this amount was all separated from his monthly expenses.
    Ackerman: He was close to about $400 million on long-term debt, had other debts to credit he received.
    Total debt is $400 and $500 million.

    Ackerman said he saw on documents that MJ was as much as $30 million in debt as early as 1993.
    “It continued to grow over time to the final numbers,” Ackerman said.

    Strong showed chart with MJ’s outstanding debt: 2001 — $231 million 2005 — $275 million 2006 — $325 million
    Ackerman said in 2007 it was $400 million, plateau there until his passing in 2009.

    Ackerman said MJ received in Oct 1995-97 — received $150 million from Sony. But he spent $32 million in 1993, $140 million in 1998.
    Strong asked what that means. “He liked to spend money,” Ackerman responded.
    Ackerman said he believes Dangerous tour in 1993 broke even or lost money. He reviewed Gongaware’s testimony with that info.
    Ackerman said the books and records shows MJ lost $11.2 million in the “HIStory” tour.
    The expert said MJ created new companies for the “HIStory” tour and he analyzed the books, which showed he lost money.
    Strong showed chart with MJ’s Assets Securing Debt in June 2009: 50% Interest in Sony/ATV Catalog MIJAC Catalog – $ 300,000,000
    Neverland Residence – $ 71,509,703 Hayvenhurst Residence – $ 23,000,000 Lindley Residence – $ 3,985,211
    Strong showed another chart of MJ’s Finances. Profile of Financial Condition: 1- Significant Debt 2- High Borrowing Rates
    Profile of Financial Condition: 3- Catalog Cash Flow Committed to Servicing Debt 4- Bankruptcy Remote Trust Formed in 2006 5- Neverland 6- Hayvenhurst

    Ackerman said that, based on his review of the documents, the royalties were dedicated to repay the debt.
    Ackerman: Mr. Jackson never got paid that money from royalties, it went straight to the lender.

    “It was earmarked to either pay the interest of the debts or the debts themselves,” Ackerman said.

    Ackerman said he believes lenders were getting nervous in 2006, formed bankruptcy remote trust that included Sony/ATV and MIJAC catalogues.
    A bankruptcy remote trust is established to protect the interest of the lender in case the borrower files for bankruptcy.
    Ackerman said his understanding is that the trust would protect the catalogues against other borrowers.
    Bankruptcy remote trust was formed in March 2006. It was called “New Horizon Trust.”

    Neverland: Ackerman said about $23 million had been lent against Neverland.
    “It has become very close to foreclosure by Colony Capital in 2008,” Ackerman said about Neverland.
    Colony Capital came in and replaced primary lender — non-interest bearing loan to MJ for $23 million.
    Ackerman said the mortgage at Hayvenhurst was delinquent 3-4 months and was scheduled to be foreclosed on June 26, 2009, a day after MJ died
    “He was in a very precarious financial condition,” Ackerman opined. “He dig himself in pretty good hole.”

    Ackerman calculated Annual Support to Plaintiffs Around 2009: Katherine – $1,167,000 Prince — $785,000 Paris — $780,000 Blanket — $780,000
    Annual Support for Katherine Jackson included all expenses for Hayvenhurst, Auto/RV,Travel, Gifts.
    Annual Support for Katherine Jackson alone: Hayvenhurst mortgage on March 2009 — 31,513/month
    Hayvenhurst property taxes — 34,000/year
    Hayvenhurst repairs and maintenance — $111,000/year Hayvenhurst homeowner insurance —
    $36,000/year Hayvenhurst utilities — $64,000/year
    Hayvenhurst employees/independent contractors — $252,000/year (groundkeeper, butler, housekeeper, personal assistant, driver, security man) Hayvenhurst security/alarms — $69,000/year
    Food allowance — $30,000/year (just for Mrs. Jackson)
    Auto/RV MJ had given Mrs. Jackson a top of the line Mercedes and recreational vehicle — $118,000/year
    Travel — $35,000/year (Family vacations for 2010 was $118,362 and 2011 was $160,471) Gifts — $40,000/year
    Ackerman said the books and records listed out the gifts MJ gave to Mrs. Jackson. In some years, there was no gift amount listed.
    Strong: What you see on the records, it decreased overtime? Ackerman: It appears that way.
    Prince, Paris and Blanket Annual Support Around 2009: Prince — $785,000 Paris — $780,000 Blanket — $780,000.
    The difference is because Prince was going to Buckley School, which Ackerman said is higher than home schooling for Paris & Blanket in 2009.
    Rent — $1,200,000 Butler — $31,000 Housekeeper — $31,000
    Chef (Kai Chase) — $128,000 Utilities — $64,000 Total Annual Cost — $1,454,000 25% Allocation per child — 364,000
    Education: Buckley School in 2013 is $36,000 for ages 12-17. In 2009 was $28,000.
    2013 cost of private university — $63,000 (Harvard). Ages 18-21. In 2009, it was $51,000. This included tuition and room and board.
    Travel: $122,000 per child Ackerman said MJ would travel by private plane and would rent entire floors of hotels.
    Security: $69,000 per child per year Caretaker: $22,000 per child per year
    Auto: Ackerman said MJ had acquired 2 top of the line Escalades. $42,000 for MJ and 3 children, about $14,000 per child.
    Ackerman said he projected kids to have own cars at 16. He testified he thinks the dream car would be a convertible BMW — $35k/year/child
    Groceries: $17,000 per year per child Other $121,000 per year per child for toys, gifts, clothes, electronics, books, jewelry, boats, places
    Ackerman said he gave $110,000 cushion in the last category to catch all that was possibly missed.
    Ackerman used a discount rate of 18% to put numbers in present value.
    Katherine Jackson — Projected Support From 2009 – 2019 Period 1 – Ending 12/31/2009 — $557,000
    Period 11 – Ending 6/30/2019 — $6,111,000
    Projected Support to Plaintiffs (cumulative) Period 1 – End 12/31/2009 — for KJ and children — $1,684,000
    Period 11 – End 12/31/2019 — for KJ and children — $19,452,000 Period 16 – End 12/31/2024 — for KJ and children — $21,498,000
    Ackerman said Mrs. Jackson’s life expectancy was 10 years from 2009. So he stopped calculating future earnings based on that.
    For MJ, he calculated 15 and half years of life expectancy, although he didn’t offer his opinion on how much MJ would live.

    “He would have to have some form of income to pay those figures,” Ackerman testified. Strong concluded her examination.
    Brian Panish did cross examination. Ackerman said he has an engagement letter with AEG for work in this case.
    Panish asked if he has a contract. He said yes. Attorney asked if he could bring a copy of it.
    Ackerman said the general requirement is to have a written agreement before work begins.
    OMM hired Ackerman in another case, the Cussler case. Bert Fields was the opposing counsel. Anschutz company was one of the defendants.
    Panish: Did your firm bill in excess of $1 million for that case?
    Ackerman: I don’t know exactly, but I’d not be surprised.
    The bill of $800,000 to $825,000 was for work up until July. Since then, Ackerman worked another 60-100 hours.
    Ackerman said he keeps time records for the work he does. “I don’t know what the industry standard is, I know what we do in our firm.”
    Panish: A professional way would be to itemize your bill, right?
    Ackerman: I don’t know, I know what our company does.
    Ackerman estimated the bill for last month to be between $50,000-$100,000, which is on top of the $800,000-$825,000 already billed.
    Panish: You were very critical of Erk’s consumption amount, right?
    Ackerman: I was very critical of it.
    I didn’t come up with specific number, but probably in the $30-$50 million range, Ackerman testified.
    Panish: How much did MJ’s debt increase from 2007 versus 2008?
    Ackerman: Approximately $1.5 million.
    Panish: And from 2008 versus 2009?
    Ackerman: I show the debt going up only a few hundred thousand dollars.
    Ackerman: Looking at this graph, it’s an average of somewhere between $30-$35 million.
    Ackerman said he, himself, did not read all the documents related to the case.
    Panish: Who were the officers of Michael Jackson Company, sir?
    Ackerman: I know Michael Jackson was.
    Panish: Was it a single liability company?
    Ackerman: I don’t recall, have to look up.
    Ackerman: Michael Jackson Company was created on Feb 8, 2007. It’s a Delaware company.

    Panish: Was Dr. Tohme sitting on $5 million of Michael Jackson’s money in 2009?
    I made aware that Dr. Tohme may had been holding some money for MJ, Ackerman responded.
    Panish: Did you testify in your deposition that it was stated by a number of people that Dr. Tohme was incompetent and dishonest.
    Some people were of that frame of mind, Ackerman answered.
    Panish: $5 million would’ve covered the entire expense at Hayvenhurst in 2009, correct?
    Ackerman: Yes, sir.

    It appears that he was providing support, Ackerman said.
    I know that Janet Jackson was also providing, so you have to draw the line where life necessities is, Ackerman explained.
    Ackerman said Mrs. Jackson testified Janet was giving her $10,000 a month.
    Mr. Panish, I’m just trying to say that she was also being subsidized by his daughter, Ackerman explained.
    Panish: Do you agree with me that Mr. Jackson was paying for his mother’s life necessities?
    Ackerman: He was providing the bulk of the support for his mother.
    Panish: What was the standard life expectancy for Michael Jackson?
    Ackerman: I don’t know.
    Panish: Did you read that MJ had 28.8 year life expectancy?
    Objection — sustained
    Panish told the judge this is a good point to stop. He says he needs to argue with the court. Judge responded: “And you can’t wait!”
    Judge adjourned session until tomorrow morning at 9:45 am PT. Ackerman is ordered to return then. He’s expected to last all day on the stand
    We hope to see you tomorrow for full coverage. For latest watch @ABC7 and . Have a great night everyone!

    * * *
    At this point I’ve got a question:

    How did AEG intend to “help” Michael if they monopolized him for three and a half years (denying him a chance to make money in any other way) and were to pay him only $22mln for 50 concerts? Wasn’t it a sure way to drive him into a much bigger debt than before?


  13. August 13, 2013 11:41 am

    “However, the mention of banter-like questioning of Kenny by both attorneys Panish and Putnam does, I feel, factor somewhat into their applause.” – Alice

    It could be one of the reasons. But all this fun was actually at the expense of serious matters that could have been discussed but were not. I’ve begun reading only just now and since TeamMJ sent me a variant which is easier to copy and paste I will probably paste here the pieces I don’t like in that testimony.

    By the way I asked TeamMJ about the funds and they say that the funds received will be enough for one more week. This is definitely too little, so it is time for those who have missed the opportunity before to contribute now!

    I am not asking those who have already done it and several times too, but those who have not yet tried to work for the truth.
    Please join us and send a gift via Paypal to

    Working for the truth is great. It gives a marvellous feeling that you are not living your life in vain.


  14. August 13, 2013 12:35 pm

    Guys, these will be spontaneous comments while reading Ortega’s testimony. I’ll just tell you what I am terribly unhappy with.

    I am unhappy with the vagueness over production costs. I would prefer Panish to have clarified the matter long ago. I am almost 100% sure that Michael never agreed to pay for production. However there is no clarity over this matter in the jurors’ minds. Look at this piece for example and check up your impression with mine, please:

    Putnam: And let me understand that just a little bit. So you and Mr. Jackson would meet, go over items, talk creatively. You’d reaffirm what you were thinking about, ideas, and then you would go to Mr.Gongaware once you had them set and say, “hey, we’d like to do the following. Can we do this, or is it too expensive?”
    A. I don’t know if I would say, “is it too expensive?”
    Q. Well, that’s why I asked.
    A. I would go and say, “this is what we’d like.”
    Q. And then he would execute it; right?
    A. Yeah.

    The impression is: What a great generous daddy Paul Gongaware (and AEG) is! Whatever Michael asked Gongaware immediately fulfilled without saying a single word.

    The truth: If we are to believe that Michael was the one to cover the costs, it means that all expenses on production were to be agreed with Michael first and not Gongaware. The procedure should have been as follows – they ask Gongaware how much it is, he comes back, MJ gives his okay and Gongaware goes and fulfills the order.

    But the very way Ortega is describing it, it can mean only two things:
    1) it was AEG who was to pay for everything, so production expenses were theirs (which was probably true) and now they are lying,
    2) or if production expenses were Michael’s then AEG was breaking the contract as regards the need to first okay everything with him.

    Did Panish speak about this? As far as I know he did not. I consider this a missed opportunity.

    Here is more of it, and if you understand that it was actually Michael who was to pay (according to what AEG says now) all of it is just a BIG SHOW, but I am afraid that the real meaning of it was lost on the jury:

    Q. And did you feel that AEG Live was supportive of Mr. Jackson during this process?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And why is that, sir? Why do you feel that way?
    A. I just feel that they — everything that we brought to AEG, in terms of, you know, the enormous
    creative — our enormous creative needs in order to realize the full potential of “this is it,” Michael’s
    vision that I shared, that AEG Was very supportive in doing all they could to assist us in making those
    things happen.
    Q. And let’s talk about that, just very briefly. This production grew and grew and grew in the time you
    were working with Michael, did it not?
    A. Yes, it did.
    Q. And the cost of it grew and grew and grew, didn’t it?
    A. I would suppose it did.
    Mr. Panish. I would just object on that. Foundation for this witness.
    The Judge: Sustained. If he knows.
    Q. did you go and ask Mr. Gongaware for more and more creative things to be added to the show?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And, again, I think — and he never said “no,” did he?
    A. Not that I recall.
    Q. And as a result you and Mr. Jackson worked together over months to build the show; correct?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And you kept adding elements from the time you began in February until the time that you were
    about to go to the 02; correct?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And was there ever a time that anybody at AEG Live came to you and said, “you’ve got to stop. This
    is getting too big and too expensive”?
    A. Not in those words, no.
    Q. Well, tell me, what they did do?
    A. Well, I think as professionals, they may have said, “really? Do you need this? Is this something you
    really feel is going to benefit? Don’t you believe we have enough here?” I think that, you know, that
    they felt that we were getting to a place where they would like to have a ceiling, you know, because it
    was a pretty fat budget. But in the end, I always felt that Michael was getting what Michael wanted.
    Q. And when you went and asked for these things, you went and asked for them because Michael
    wanted them; correct?
    A. Yes.
    Q. Did you ever ask for something that Michael said he didn’t want?
    A. No.


  15. August 13, 2013 1:28 pm

    I agree, Helena, that AEG’s strategy with the latest witnesses is worrying. But Panish already said that he wants to bring several rebuttal witnesses when the defense closes their case. I think he will try to bring a few issues back to the attention of the jury, so I hope like alice that he will keep on top of this.

    TatumMarie: “This is obvious from his testimony; most of what he spoke about Michael’s drug use was speculation. Katherine was the only one that had real access to Michael on a constant basis.”
    Thank you, that’s it, I absolutely agree.

    Helena: Regarding the show Michael created in Bashir’s film with buying the vases, that’s what I always assumed. Because of all the rumors, he just wanted to show Bashir and probably others that he was not broke. I remember that Dieter Wiesner also told in his book that these vases were actually never purchased.

    Yes, I also think it would have been insulting for Michael to receive so little money for 50 shows. He at least would have felt like a real slave to the business and its bosses, which he always fought against, also for other artists. It certainly would have depressed him very much.

    These large interest payments show how bad his representation, his management was. The responsible persons apparently were not able or interested to negotiate better conditions with the creditors/banks, something Branca did successfully after Michael’s death.


  16. August 13, 2013 2:52 pm

    “These large interest payments show how bad his representation, his management was. The responsible persons apparently were not able or interested to negotiate better conditions with the creditors/banks, something Branca did successfully after Michael’s death.” – Susanne

    Susanne, Michael’s management was mostly horrible. Those enormous interest rates go back to Fortress Investment group which gave MJ a loan to pay off his $272,5mln debt to the Bank of America but set much bigger interest rates which by 2010 reached 16,5%.

    Who found Fortress Investment Group for Michael? From the documents I’ve read it was the company called Prescient Acquisitions Group Inc. And who found Prescient Acquisitions Group Inc.? It was Randy Jackson and his advisor Don Stabler. How much did Prescient want Michael to pay for that service? $48 mln.

    So in addition to greatly increased interest rates Michael was also to pay $48 mln though he didn’t even know about the involvement of that company in his affairs – it looks like it was done behind his back. The matter was settled with Prescient for a smaller sum if I remember it right, but he still had to pay!

    I don’t remember now who was the ultimate holder of that 16,5% interest rate credit but what’s important is that in 2010 the Estate renegotiated this deal and brought it down to the interest rate of 4% only.

    So if it was possible in 2010 it was quite possible when Michael was alive too! This is why I am in awe with what Branca did with Michael’s finances. I’m sure that if he had been running his business Michael would not have accumulated that debt.

    Jackson Estate Steers to Next Challenge: Loan Refinancing
    June 21, 2010

    Since Mr. Jackson’s death last June 25, his businesses have been run by the singer’s longtime lawyer, John Branca, and a music-industry veteran and personal friend of Mr. Jackson’s named John McClain. Unlike traditional executors, Messrs. Branca and McClain are aggressively managing Mr. Jackson’s affairs as a going concern.

    Mr. Jackson’s debts were spiraling out of control…. A loan backed by Mijac carried a crushing 16.5% interest rate, to be paid out of royalties generated by the company.

    When the royalty payments fell short of the towering cost of servicing the debt, any unpaid interest was piled on to the principal. As a result, by the time of his death, the Mijac loan had reached $75 million, with $11 million due in annual interest, which was several million dollars more than the catalog was generating annually.

    The loan has now been refinanced with an interest rate of less than 4%. And thanks to increased album sales since Mr. Jackson’s death and a new deal for public-performance royalties, the catalog is generating enough cash to pay off the refinanced loan a little more than a year from now.


  17. August 13, 2013 3:26 pm

    Now I’ve read the full testimony of Kenny Ortega and as usual the full transcript makes things much more clearer. But though in the full version Ortega looks a little better he still did a lot of damage to MJ and is now telling a lot of lies.

    For example:

    Q. Dr. Murray got involved in scheduling during the week of June 15th. Do you remember speaking about that?
    A. Again, I don’t remember the exact day. But, yes, I do recall discussing Dr. Murray’s involvement in Michael’s portion of the scheduling.
    Q. And up until that point — I’ll represent to you that at the time you were testifying, we were talking about the week of June 15th; okay? So up until that time period, was there ever any other time that you’re aware of that Dr. Conrad Murray had anything to do with Michael’s scheduling?
    A. No.
    Q. So this was a new thing?
    The witness: yes. To me, it was a new thing.
    Q. and were you in the meeting where it came about where Dr. Conrad Murray took on that scheduling role?
    A. No.
    Q. So how did it come to be — did you learn this from somebody else?
    A. Yes.
    Q. Did you learn it from Mr. Jackson?
    A. No.
    Q. Who did you learn that from?
    A. If I’m not mistaken, I learned it from Mr. Phillips.
    Q. And you also mentioned, when you were talking about that, that you thought that Mr. Phillips at this point also got involved in the scheduling. You remember talking about that?
    A. At this point I don’t know that he so much got involved in it as he was watching over it.
    Q. That’s what I want to ask you about, because when you were here before —
    A. Yeah.
    Q. — you were shown an e-mail, you may recall —
    A. Uh-huh.
    Q. — from a man named Timm Woolley?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And in that e-mail, it indicated that suddenly Dr. Conrad Murray and Randy Phillips were involved in scheduling. Do you remember being shown that? ….

    The lie is in the fact that all of it was absolutely not “sudden” and Ortega had a direct bearing on it. He informed AEG that Conrad Murray had given MJ a sick leave, Gongaware sent Murray an email reminding him who was paying his salary, Randy Phillips made Murray several calls, evidently giving him instructions, and as a result of it at the meeting on June, 15th (16th) Murray and Phillips were made responsible for ensuring Michael’s attendance of rehearsals. And all of it at Ortega’s initiation. And now all of it is “sudden” to him?

    And it was Ortega who told Karen Faye that if Michael was not coming to rehearsals the company would pull the plug, and said so many horrifying things to her that the next morning she was still shaking with terror and early in the morning typed a message to her boyfriend (which she retrieved only recently).

    In the piece below Panish is talking about that message to Ortega and what does he reply? He doesn’t remember any of it!

    Q. Do you know what time Michael Jackson was supposed to be at rehearsal on the 18th?
    A. I’ve seen emails, Mr. Panish; but I don’t recall.
    Q. You were upset that day, though, right?
    A. I believe I was.
    Q. And do you recall whether you told Karen Faye that Dr. Murray and Randy Phillips had held some sort of intervention with Michael?
    A. Do I recall having a conversation with Karen Faye where I told them that Dr. Murray and Randy were having an intervention with Michael?
    Q. Yes.
    A. I don’t recall that.
    Q. Do you recall whether you told — told Karen Faye that AEG was funding Michael’s entire life right now; his food, kids and everything?
    A. No.
    Q. Okay. Do you recall whether you ever told Karen Faye that AEG has told Michael that they’ll pull the plug if he doesn’t get it together?
    A. Maybe in some capacity to that.
    Q. Okay. How about did you ever tell Karen Faye that AEG had told Michael that if he doesn’t do this, he loses everything?
    A. No.
    Q. Okay. Did you ever tell Karen Faye that any hand-holding of Michael had been removed?
    A. Again, we may have had a conversation about something like that, sir; but those — that wouldn’t
    have been the way I would have talked to Karen.
    Q. Okay. Fair enough. Did you ever tell Karen Faye that Michael had to face his fears?
    A. No.

    SO IT WAS ORTEGA WHO WAS PRESSURIZING MICHAEL A LOT! And now he makes himself sound like he is an innocent baby.


  18. August 13, 2013 4:24 pm

    There is one good word in swedish that well describes Kenny Ortgas testimony.I don´t know of any like it in english. The word is ;tvetydig.Meaning that a statement or statements can be judged as having 2 oppsite meanings. He was one who made a U-turn just about in the last minute. Now he has moved to the middle at best. Tve is derived from the word for 2 and tydig from tyda = to mean. Maybe he just wants to forget about June. “He(MJ) was very involved in Feb., March and April.
    Jorrie knows things she should not and vice versa. I just hate these often repeated words: He (Murray) was his personal physician for some time. And he administered services professionally and with greatest of care?! Briggs is a nasty overpaid —–. You can´t blame Panish for feeling frustrated, I would think many others would too.


  19. August 14, 2013 1:55 am

    My comment of today was misplaced under the wrong article ,trial day 24 ,rather than this.
    Heavy reding this testimony.

    Repeated here:
    La Perruque , such a symphatetic person.And clear in his testimony. HE like Michael´s doctor in Ireland doctor Treacey, made the same remark that there was a certain sadness about Michael
    I am sure all along Michael knew about Victor Guitirrez,NAMBLA and of course the press that followed in their foot steps.Just imagine that all that would not have happened.
    Reading the testimonies last night, and that after I got carried away with all the videos and music,I had bad dreams about an ex-bf who very much had a love for money and some other negative attributes as well, not immediately dicernable.


  20. alice permalink
    August 14, 2013 2:00 am

    Hey everyone,

    Hope you are all well!
    I just have a quick and slightly random question.
    I’ve spent the good part of two hours trying to google and find any direct quotes or articles about Prince speaking about his anger and dissatisfaction during his experience with AEG – possibly regarding his tour at the O2?
    I’ve read lots of comments and references to it but can’t for the life of me actually find the real thing. Did he do so in concert? Is there footage of it?
    (if it was just video footage by a fan then I guess it’s probably hard to find, since he is so, so conscious of maintaining his copyrights and ownership of his intellectual property by getting unverified versions of his work or his brand published anywhere)
    Would love to know if anyone can point me in the right direction.
    Thankyou so much.


  21. alice permalink
    August 14, 2013 2:03 am


    wow! thankyou for sharing that word and its meaning: tvetydig, is that right?
    I love the concept of it’s definition and really agree it fits not only Kenny’s testimony but I’m sure it’s something we will also see again as more witnesses take the stand.
    It’s fascinating hearing and learning of words that my native language may not have its own version for.


  22. alice permalink
    August 14, 2013 2:58 am

    Hey again all,

    Just something I found in an interview from 2008 (after Randy Phillips made that first proposal to Michael in 2007 and was turned down, but now pretends everything was hunky-dory between them and no, nobody at all felt spurned by Michael’s decision because didn’t you know, Michael approached HIM?) with AEG concert promoter Rob Hallett.

    The interviewer/journalist’s lead in to the piece was:

    “He coaxed Leonard Cohen out of retirement, staged Prince’s 21-night London run, is bringing Britney Spears to Britain and taking Damon Albarn’s Monkey opera to China.
    Concert promoter Rob Hallett of AEG has been behind some of the landmark live music events of recent years. He now has a major reunion up his sleeve – just don’t ask about the chances of a Michael Jackson comeback.”

    And the excerpt I pick goes as follows:

    “Q: AEG is reported to have made an offer to Michael Jackson to promote his comeback shows – what’s the situation with that?

    A: I dunno, who’s Michael Jackson? Wasn’t he the head of the BBC once? [interviewer’s note: A TV executive called Michael Jackson was controller of BBC One and BBC Two in the 1990s.]

    Q: Have you got an offer in?

    A: I’m not really into TV execs turned into singers.

    Q: With the other Michael Jackson?

    A: Is there another one?

    Q: I’ll take that as a no comment. Moving on…”

    Hahah, yeah AEG. Not bitter AT ALL.
    Do I detect the smell of burning resentment?


  23. Sina permalink
    August 14, 2013 4:13 am

    I’ve spent the good part of two hours trying to google and find any direct quotes or articles about Prince speaking about his anger and dissatisfaction during his experience with AEG – possibly regarding his tour at the O2? -Alice

    Hi Alice, Here is the link of the review. Helena wrote a piece about what Prince was making from the AEG gigs vs Michael


  24. Sina permalink
    August 14, 2013 4:16 am

    Sorry Alice. I see the link is rking. Here is another one. If not, I have the article
    Bootleg Reviews, Music Reviews, Prince, Unreleased Prince


  25. August 14, 2013 2:06 pm

    “My comment of today was misplaced under the wrong article ,trial day 24 ,rather than this. La Perruque , such a symphatetic person.And clear in his testimony. HE like Michael´s doctor in Ireland doctor Treacey, made the same remark that there was a certain sadness about Michael” – kaarin

    Kaarin, since you misplaced the comment Sina and I also misplaced ours, so let me repeat here what I already said about LaPerruque and Treacy.

    When the media approached LaPerruque during the 2005 trial he said he was so sure of Michael’s innocence that he would leave his own small children with him. So powerful a word in support of Jackson from a former deputy sheriff with 22,5 years of police work was invaluable at the time.

    And Patrick Treacy was so impressed by Michael’s radiant personality and incredible fate that he didn’t hesitate to draw a parallel with Jesus’s life. He said that Michael was a Christian WHO LIVED HIS FAITH. And was CRUCIFIED. I fully agree with both.

    Here is a post about him made at the time of Conrad Murray’s trial:

    And an excerpt from Patrick Treacy’s talk about Michael to Deborah Kunesh (from the above post):

    0:30 Michael was very spiritual and very gentle…

    3:25 He did his charitable, humanitarian works behind the scenes. This was one of the reasons that people were sort of unaware of his humanitarian work or the depth of it.
    At times Michael lived penniless, I know this. He would be giving away many-many millions to people he saw as less unfortunate. And certainly his image because of that will go on for years to come. People will find the truth about him and realize that so much injustice was done to him… and the treasure they had…

    4:40 My great concern now is the trial that’s coming up… I get a feeling that we will be all subjected to a media barrage of corporate America trying to further distort his name. He’ll be made out some sort of a drug freak that self-injected himself and is culpably responsible and in some way involved in his own death.

    5:20 There will be time when we have to defend his name. Out of 14 charges every one thrown out and not even a word spoken in the media the next day for Michael’s defense. This time round we’re going to see something similar happening. Because the public was to a certain extent conditioned to some level of brainwashing they have an appetite for listening to false [information].

    6:15 I’ve already been offered close to 5 to 6 digit numbers to try and say bad things about him. Number one they don’t exist but someone would want to print or make up something just for the sake of selling the paper… It really astounds me in many ways. And that was not even only from your side of the Atlantic, it was on ours.

    7:35 The sad fact is that all you had to be in his company 5 minutes to admit his total radiance of goodness. And you never really heard him give out on anybody else. Even though people were stealing from him moneywise. There was just no badness about him. Continually he was thinking about other people. We mentioned the kids in hospital that were burnt. He would ask me a couple of days later: “Are these children in pain now?” These things bothered him continually and it was genuine affection for other people and particularly children.

    9:30 D. Kunesh: “It was twisted into something evil. People described God’s love in his heart and love emanating from him”.

    P. Treacy: “I certainly experienced it on almost every occasion I met him. He almost worked on two different levels… There was an interaction over what you do but there was a continual thought process. People who reached a sort of spiritual enlightenment always have within themselves this continual wanting to help other people. It was fascinating to see it in Michael. I’ve had many experiences like that with him…

    10:20 I’ve met many celebrities, but there was no one like Michael – really, no.

    12:15 Of course he was crucified. If there was the tabloid media present on Earth during the period of Jesus Christ two thousand years ago, they probably had branded him a ped-le as well. From the point of view that Jesus liked children, and Michael very much was almost the same way. We all now are almost afraid as much as smile at children in case people would get the wrong impression. It’s just incredible how almost in one generation the whole relationship between children and adults changed as well.

    And more in other parts of the video:

    10:25 What a loss! There would be long-long time before the planet has anybody of that level of integrity, spirituality, creativity. He had them all in one package!

    11:35 There was universality about him. He was a Christian and certainly maintained Christian beliefs in everything he did, analogous to other great religious people that lived on planet. You don’t necessarily have to draw too many conclusions there, but a lot of people would see him analogous to the love that Jesus had for people.

    12:15 He lived his faith. There is no doubt about it.


  26. August 14, 2013 3:47 pm

    “I’ve spent the good part of two hours trying to google and find any direct quotes or articles about Prince speaking about his anger and dissatisfaction during his experience with AEG – possibly regarding his tour at the O2? I’ve read lots of comments and references to it but can’t for the life of me actually find the real thing.”- Alice

    Here is the link:


    February 27, 2012
    Bootleg Review: Prince “L.A. Confidential”

    “It must be said at this point, Prince was unhappy with the sound quality throughout the evening. All three shows were marred by technical problems, feedback and poor sound systems. By the time this show was in motion he had enough. During the early part of this set he asked for adjustments to the sound several times. Before the next song, he launched into an epic rant from the stage, directed at AEG who he had been working with for a number of years on his tours, including the massively successful Musicology Tour of 2004. AEG oversees the entire L.A. Live complex and Prince started naming names, specifically calling out AEG Live President and CEO Randy Phillips and AEG’s President and CEO Tim Leiweke from the stage in a 90 second public lambasting.

    “Before we play this, Randy Phillips, Tim Leiweke, they run AEG. And, uh, this is their building so the buzzes you hear you can talk to them about it. I’m gonna play through it, I’m gonna do my best. Now feel me, they spent a lot of money on the seats, and the lights are beautiful. But I done told them several times, let’s work on that sound. I came to see Alicia Keys here and it was the worst sound I ever heard. But Alicia is a genius, bar none. She is music and she deserves the best, alright? So we’re all in this together. So if we fix the sound, I’ll be here every night. This is what I do. And I’ll do it for free, I won’t charge ’em. But now I got to go back to my three million a night!”

    Prince then kicks into “She Spoke 2 Me” by shouting sarcastically “It’s alright Tim and Randy, we love ya!”, then during the performance gets the crowd to chant ‘AEG, AEG’ over and over. I cannot emphasize enough what a monumental night this then became. AEG made Prince a ton of money helping him make his 3121 shows in Las Vegas and his 21 Nights in London a reality. He planned to do a similar 21 night stand in L.A., but in one onstage rant, he called out the highest executives of the company by name, publicly embarrassed them and burned yet another bridge in the entertainment industry. His relationship with AEG, again a company that made Prince millions of dollars, was over and he blew it up right in front of about 2,500 fans. The fact we now get to see it on video is priceless. Prince closes the performance of “She Spoke 2 Me” by introducing the band then getting one last shot in at AEG by declaring, “And my name is Randy Phillips. Thank you, goodnight.”


  27. August 14, 2013 4:37 pm

    “There is one good word in swedish that well describes Kenny Ortgas testimony.I don´t know of any like it in english. The word is ;tvetydig.Meaning that a statement or statements can be judged as having 2 opposite meanings. Tve is derived from the word for 2 and tydig from tyda = to mean.” – kaarin

    “Tvetydig” is a great word and most of Ortega’s testimony is the example of opposite meanings – first a bow to one side, then a bow to the other side. “Yes, Michael could draw the audiences but it remained to be seen whether he would have the same command now”. “Yes, Michael would be the biggest draw on the planet… but if not be the number 1, would be darn close,” and all the rest of this pas-de-deux.

    “He was one who made a U-turn just about in the last minute. Now he has moved to the middle at best”.

    Ortega is in full support of AEG. Previously he was frightened as he didn’t want a suit against him too and he also knew his guilt for much of that pressure which drove Michael into his grave.

    But now even the fear and the first initial guilt are gone and only some ritual phrases about him being a friend of Michael and “love for him” remain, and are repeated so often that their sweetness makes you sick.

    The reason we know that Ortega is fully on AEG’s side is not only because his lawyer is paid by AEG, but because he makes outrageous statements that Michael was “responsible for his health”. This is true only in cases people are allowed to take care of their health and are not bullied, insulted and humiliated. All of it makes an insomniac lose his last hopes for sleep and denies him a chance to stay healthy.

    But Ortega behaves in a way as if he doesn’t know about Michael’s insomnia and that his own harshness with him and threats to leave the show were also a big reason for it. Now he makes Michael responsible for all that stress and masks it with excessive conversation about “love for him”:

    A. Adults are responsible for their own health.
    Q. At the time, did you think Mr. Jackson was responsible for his own health?
    Mr. Panish. This calls for speculation.
    The Judge: Overruled.
    The witness: I didn’t think he was being very responsible, but it was his responsibility, in my opinion.
    Q. and that’s hard for you to say; right?
    A. Well, I wanted to take care of him. You always want to take care of someone if you care about them
    and they’re not feeling right. But you can’t be responsible for them; they have to be responsible for
    Q. And did you ever think that you were responsible for Mr. Jackson’s health?
    A. No.
    Q. You loved him; right, sir?
    A. Yes.
    Q. You cared deeply about him?
    A. Yes.

    Lies result in double standards and hypocrisy, and it is hugely hypocritical to claim that Michael’s health was his sole responsibility. He was given blow after blow from the people around him and was already bleeding while they hypocritically announce that his health was his own responsibility.

    They were beating him and he responsible for the wounds he got?



  28. August 14, 2013 5:12 pm

    Here is the news from the second day of Ackerman’s testimony followed by Dr. Sasaki’s video deposition:

    Tuesday August 13, 2013 DAY 68

    Hello from the courthouse in downtown LA. Day 68 of Jackson family vs AEG trial, Week 16, is about to begin.
    Katherine Jackson is present in court, wearing a long navy blue jacket.
    Outside the presence of the jury, attorneys and judge are now arguing about boundaries for William Ackerman’s testimony.
    They are also discussing exhibits and charts presented yesterday. Jury is sitting in the hallway waiting to be called in.
    AEG’s expert witness, CPA William Ackerman, is set to resume testimony today. He’s expected to last all day on the stand.
    We’ll bring you all the details of today’s testimony as soon as we can. Remember, per judge, no live tweets.

    Ackerman is back on the stand for cross examination. Brian Panish, attorney for the Jacksons, doing the questioning.
    Panish asked what was the life expectancy for a 50 year old male based on the table he used to calculate Katherine Jackson’s life expectancy
    Ackerman: According to this table a male of 50 years old would be 29.6 years.
    I can’t speculate what he’d give for support Ackerman said. “I do know he was in very precarious financial situation at the time he died.”
    He could’ve been bankrupt within 6 months as far as I know, Ackerman opined. Panish asked if after bankruptcy MJ wouldn’t have debt left.
    Ackerman: He would not be able to provide support for his mother and children then.
    Ackerman said MJ received $6.2 million in advance from AEG. Panish said MJ received $23 million in 6 months in 2009.
    Panish: You can’t tell us what support he would be able to provide, right, sir?
    Ackerman: I think that’s for the jury to decide.
    Panish: Did you know MJ gave Mrs. Jackson a $500,000 RV?
    Ackerman: Yes, it was in my analysis.
    Ackerman said there was no record of MJ’s amount of donations over the years.
    Ackerman testifies he saw on documents that MJ was going to donate the proceeds of “Dangerous” tour to charity.
    Panish: Did you see he donated over $60 million to charity?
    Objection, sustained.
    Panish: Do you agree MJ was a very generous person?
    Ackerman: I absolutely agree with that.

    Panish asked if he thought MJ would give the kids everything he thought important. Ackerman responded MJ wanted his children to be humble
    The bill for Ackerman’s firm is about $900,000 currently. Panish wrote on a board what other damages expert for AEG charged.
    Bill from damages experts for AEG:
    Ackerman — $900,000
    Briggs — $700,000
    Total: $1.6 million
    Ackerman doesn’t recall being qualified as expert witness for plaintiffs in a wrongful death case.
    Panish asked what percentage of his work is in wrongful death cases. “Very small percentage,” Ackerman responded.
    Ackerman said he reviewed a lot of trial testimony, but even more depositions in this case.

    Panish asked Ackerman for amount he used for the chart before he applied the 18% discount rate to bring the final number to present value.
    Ackerman looked at docs in his binders, said he doesn’t have original numbers with him. He said the calculations need to be done in software
    Panish showed Ackerman Formuzis analysis and the calculation for personal consumption and professional fees.
    Formuzis used 7% discount rate. Panish asked if Ackerman used the same rate. “It’s an improper rate why would I do that?” Ackerman responded

    MJ had a $320 million debt against the Sony/ATV catalogue. Ackerman said the highest interest rate was 16.85%.
    Panish asked Ackerman if he read IRS valued of Sony/ATV catalogue at $700 million.
    It would not change my conclusion, no sir, Ackerman explained.
    Panish said Briggs testified independent appraisal valued at Sony/ATV catalogue at $700 million: $300MM on top of $400MM MJ had in debt.
    I’m having a really hard time using that number, Ackerman said.
    Ackerman said MIJAC catalogue was same amount of the debts on it. He said the value is about $75 million.
    There was no equity in that asset in June 2009, Ackerman said he read in the documents.
    Liability exceeded any amount of value of the assets, Ackerman testified.

    Ackerman said he did not put a value on the assets MJ had.
    Neverland — there’s some value
    MIJAC catalogue — there’s some value
    Sony/ATV catalogue — there’s a value
    Panish: AEG knew MJ’s financial condition when they entered into an agreement with him, didn’t they, sir?
    Ackerman: I don’t know that.
    Panish asked if Ackerman read Randy Phillips’ deposition where he said they were aware of MJ’s finances.
    Panish asked if Ackerman read Tom Barrack’s testimony that he met with MJ several times to straighten his financial situation.
    Ackerman said there was some mention to it but doesn’t remember the details of the meeting.

    The expert said his normally hour rate is $475.
    Panish showed Ackerman several bills from his firm where they researched Colony Capital and MJ’s deal.
    Ackerman: Colony Capital came in when Neverland was about to be foreclosed and lent MJ $23 million with a very [high?] interest rate, by the way.
    Panish: But didn’t you testify yesterday the loan had no interest?
    Ackerman explained it was high interest loan but he didn’t have to pay it

    Panish: He never liquidated his assets, did he sir?
    Ackerman: He never did.

    Panish said MJ didn’t want to liquidate his assets, instead he wanted to go back touring.
    Ackerman said Michael Jackson signed the contract with AEG to go back on tour.
    Panish asked where Ackerman researched Colony Capital and MJ’s deals.
    There’s a really interesting tool called internet, there are a lot of things you can find there, Ackerman responded.
    Panish asked if MJ decided to go on tour after meeting with Tom Barrack. Ackerman said it appeared that way.

    Panish: Did you do any discount rate of 7, 10 or 15%?
    Ackerman: No, I did not. I used 18%.
    Panish: Have you prepared calculation of personal consumption for MJ per year?
    Ackerman: I actually calculated something this morning.
    Ackerman said the bars on the graph he showed yesterday include personal consumption.
    Panish asked if he came up with numbers after speaking with his attorneys yesterday.
    Today is typically after yesterday, Ackerman responded.
    Judge struck the answer.

    Panish: Do you know if AEG submitted a $300,000 in expense that had been accrued for the the services of Dr. Murray?
    Panish showed documents to Ackerman to refresh his recollection.
    Ackerman: I have a vague recollection of seeing this number.
    Judge then broke session for lunch. We should be back shortly.

    Panish asked if Ackerman knows that Erk did not include the interest rate in his calculations of consumption. He said yes.
    Ackerman said had Erk included interest, the red bar would go much higher, since most of the expenses are interest.
    Panish: Did Mr. Briggs give a number for loss of future earnings for MJ?
    Ackerman said he recalls Briggs saying projections were speculative
    Panish: Did Mr. Briggs give an opinion the amount MJ would lose in future earnings?
    Ackerman: I don’t recall.
    Panish asked if Briggs said the amount for future earning for MJ would be zero.
    Ackerman said he doesn’t remember Briggs putting a number. My fundamental understanding his (Briggs) testimony is that Mr. Erk’s calculations were speculative, Ackerman said.
    The reality is that Mr. Jackson could lose money, Ackerman said, pointing that MJ had debts that could offset anything he earned.
    Panish: Did Mr. Briggs put no figure for loss of income for MJ’s life?
    Ackerman: That’s correct.
    Panish: And in your opinion is that the children lost $21.5 millions in future support?
    Ackerman said that was correct, if you were to believe MJ would continue to give the same support as previous years.
    It could be zero support too, Ackerman opined. “He was in pretty bad financial situation.”
    Panish asked if support could’ve been zero. “I guess in that situation yes, it could have been zero,” Ackerman responded.
    Panish: For $1.6 million, it’s your and Briggs’ opinion, that MJ’s loss of future earning could be zero?
    Ackerman: That’s a possibility.

    Panish concluded, Sabrina Strong did re-direct.
    She asked the witness if there a difference between consumption and spending. He said no.
    I believe I shared multiple data points of how much Mr. Jackson spent on the last 8 years of his life, Ackerman said.
    Strong showed exhibit with chart Ackerman made regarding MJ’s expenses. Ackerman said the bars show what MJ actually spent.
    Strong: Does that include business and personal spending?
    Ackerman said yes, that the bars included interest, business, personal, all that came out of MJ’s checkbook, since he was responsible for all
    He dug himself a very deep hole, Ackerman explained. “He was tapped out.”
    Ackerman said there was very strong language in Michael Kane’s deposition that Michael Jackson was tapped out.
    Mr. Barrack was in the frame of mind that MJ didn’t have enough income to support his spending and lifestyle, Ackerman testified.
    Strong: Were there other outstanding debt for Mr. Jackson at the time Tohme was holding the $5 million for MJ?
    Ackerman: Huge
    Ackerman listed MJ’s debts:
    Ackerman said on top of that there were creditors debts in the amount of $100 million.
    There were just no shortage of people he had to pay, Ackerman explained.
    As the debt continue to grow, the interest continued to grow, Ackerman explained.

    Ackerman: There is a significant issue of doubt whether he (MJ) would be able to continue to provide support.
    He couldn’t get an increase in his $50,000 credit card limit, Ackerman said. “That’s how bad it was.”
    Ackerman said the MJ’s income were from Sony/ATV and MIJAC catalogues. “You lose the asset, you lose the income,” Ackerman opined.

    Strong asked about IRS’ valuation of Sony catalogue. Ackerman said Briggs’ opinion was that that asset was not that valuable.
    Ackerman said Briggs did valuation of Sony/ATV catalogue for tax return purposed on behalf of MJ’s Estate.
    Ackerman said the Sony/ATV catalogue debt interest was 7%. This was the majority of the debt MJ had.

    Ackerman explained the Sony/ATV loan was very unique in many ways. He said it was collateralized by the catalogue itself.
    He also said there was a bankruptcy remote trust attached to the catalogue, if asset were to be sold the proceeds would first to repay debt.
    On top of that, Ackerman said Sony guaranteed they would pay $300 million in case everything else failed.
    It was the most secured loan I’ve ever seen, Ackerman said. “It caused the interest rate to go way down.”

    Strong asked about the bill Panish said AEG submitted to MJ’s Estate that included $300,000 for the cost of Dr. Murray’s services.
    Ackerman read the footnote: the contract is not signed by MJ and such a signature was a condition precedent to any payment obligation.
    Regarding necessities to live, Strong asked Ackerman if a mortgage of $35,000 a month is necessary to live. He answered no.
    Strong: Do you believe $111,000 a year in repairs and maintenance necessary to live?
    Objection, lack of foundation. Judge sustained.
    Ackerman said Prince drives a Ford truck. He calculated his car to be a BMW.
    The expert explained his oversight only benefited the plaintiffs, since he calculated more money for support.
    Ackerman said MJ would have to have enough income to service all the debts, personnel, creditors and to support to plaintiffs.
    I think he’d have significant difficulty in continue to provide the support, Ackerman opined.

    Panish, in re-direct, asked if Barrack testified that, with Colony Capital help, MJ could overcome his debts and he could become a success?
    Ackerman: I don’t recall that.
    After reviewing Barrack’s deposition, Ackerman said yes.

    I think they all thought and hoped the tour would be successful, Ackerman testified.

    [QUESTION: How could he repay if AEG planned to pay him only $22 mln?]

    Panish: Did you read anything about MJ’s relationship with his mother and children?
    Ackerman: My recollection it was very loving.
    Panish: Did you read anywhere that MJ denied his mother or children anything?
    Ackerman: I don’t recall that.
    Panish asked if Ackerman is here to help the plaintiffs. He said he’s here to try to be fair.
    Ackerman said he came up with a very generous support numbers should the jury decide to award anything.
    Ackerman said at the end of MJ’s life, he had close to $30 million a year in interest, his total overall expenses was $30-45 million range.
    Panish: Did you do a calculation for the loss of their father, loss of care, comfort, society, affection?
    Ackerman: I don’t think I’m qualified to calculate that.

    Ackerman was excused. Judge broke for afternoon break.

    [I think that losses should be calculated on the estimation of the damage done not only to the family but the world]

    Outside the presence of the jury, there was a discussion with the attorneys whether plaintiffs have formally rested their case.
    Panish to tell the judge in the morning. She wants to tell the jury and put it in the record.
    Defendants have filed a motion for non-suit already. Judge said she won’t rule on it right away.

    AEG called their next witness via video deposition Dr Gordon Hiroshi Sasaki
    Jury entered at 3:27 pm PT. Katherine Jackson left for the day.
    He graduated from Pomona College in 1964, degree in Bachelor of Arts.
    Q: Question by attorney
    A: Answer by Dr. Sasaki
    He went to Yale University for his medical school, graduated in 1968.
    Dr. Sasaki served in Vietnam and wore several hats as doctor, including anesthesia and plastic surgery on days off.
    He laughed at that last comment.

    Q: Did you ever provide medical treatment to MJ?
    A: Yes, I did.
    Dr. Sasaki said he did two surgeries on MJ’s scalp and 3 on the upper lip for contouring.

    March 16, 1993 was the first surgery Dr. Sasaki performed on MJ. It was to reduce scar on the scalp, the bald spot.
    Second surgery was on October 31, 1997 for scar revision to reduce the width of the reduced scar on the scalp.

    Dr. Sasaki: The medical care, which included post operation and pain management, were taken out of my hands willingly.
    Dr. Sasaki said the care was placed into two other doctors that Mr. Jackson thought would be the best.
    Dr. Sasaki said the other two doctors were Steven Hoefflin and Arnold Klein. At some point Dr. Metzger as well, he said.

    Dr. Sasaki on how he met MJ: I received a phone call from Dr. Steven Hoefflin, a plastic surgeon.
    Dr. Sasaki said he was asked to assist him in providing different alternatives to take care of the bald spot on his scalp.

    The consultation with MJ and Dr. Hoefflin was set up, Dr. Sasazi said. Dr. Hoefflin is a well known plastic surgeon in Los Angeles.

    The surgery in 1993 lasted about half an hour.
    Dr. Sasazi explained he put a metal on a side of the defect and a metal on the other side.
    He then put stitches going from one side of the metal to the other, crank it to put the sides together.
    Dr. Sasaki said the method results in about 30% more skin from stretching. He then put ballon in the scalp to stretch further to cover scar

    [They cranked the two metal pieces together stretching the skin – what a medieval torture!]

    Dr. Hoefflin was his first assistant in the surgery. Dr. Sasaki said he knew generically that in 1988 MJ had a burn in is scalp.
    He said he understands the burn happened during a Pepsi commercial and it had healed, but MJ wanted to reduce the scar.
    The scar was in the middle part of the scalp, Dr. Sasaki said.

    Dr. Sasaki: He was kind enough to invite myself and my family to Neverland.
    Dr. Sasaki: We went up there, he was not there, but he was not supposed to be there. The staff served us lunch and showed us around.
    Dr. Sasaki said he visited Neverland Ranch twice, once with his family and once at MJ”s request.
    Dr. Sasaki: I think he just wanted to have me look at his wound, which was healing quite well.
    More than talking about him, we talked about the Bible, Dr. Sasaki said.
    He said he was there for medical purposes, though, The visits may have been 5 years apart.

    Dr. Sasaki prepared a summary of all the treatment of MJ on Feb 7, 2013. He wrote Dr. Hoefflin told him MJ had a low threshold to pain.
    Dr. Hoefflin strongly suggested he managed the pain medications since he knew the patient better.
    Dr. Sasaki said that with celebrities, when he doesn’t get to see patients frequently, he prefers not to treat them.
    Q: Did you provide any post operation pain care?
    A: None
    Q: Was that unusual?
    A: It’s highly unusual
    Dr. Sasaki said if he doesn’t see the patient regularly he prefers not to give pain medication.
    He said he never talked to MJ about the pain treatment.
    Dr. Sasaki: I think when you’re dealing with high profile clients, some doctors prefer to keep it under control.
    Dr. Sasaki said he did the surgery but didn’t see the patient until 2-3 months later, which is highly unusual.
    Q: Did you prescribe any medication to MJ?
    A: No.

    Dr. Sasaki said normally a patient who undergoes that kind of surgery has pain lasting for 6 weeks.

    Dr. Sasaki testified from his record that on June 30, 1993 he had the first post op follow up at the Dr. Klein’s office.
    He said MJ was experiencing pain due to his work and rehearsals. He had to wear a hairpiece to camouflage the scar.

    Dr. Sasaki said he told Debbie Rowe that the area should be exposed to air as much as possible to heal.
    On July 3, 1993, Dr. Sasaki prescribed Percocet for MJ. It was the first time he prescribed pain medication to MJ.

    Dr. Sasaki said he spoke with Dr. Klein and that Klein suggested Percocet.
    On July 20, 1993, there was another request for Percocet, due to strenuous rehearsals, prescribed with the knowledge of Dr. Klein.
    On Aug 10, 1993, Dr Sasaki received a phone call from Dr. Klein that MJ was experiencing extreme pain.


    Doctor said pain was normal 4-6 weeks after surgery due to the nerves growing back.

    Dr. Sasaki suggested to Dr. Klein that MJ be seen by a pain management specialist.
    I was concerned about pain patterns and his use of Percocet, Dr. Sasaki testified.
    Q: Was he taking too much?
    A: Yes
    Q: Where you the only person prescribing Percocet to MJ?
    A: I don’t know
    Dr. Sasaki said he prescribed 45 tablets of Percocet each time.
    Dr. Sasaki told Dr. Klein and MJ he would no longer prescribe Percocet to MJ since he was asking for too much.
    Q: Was that very frequent?
    A: Frequent
    Percocet prescription, 45 tablets each time, were prescribed on:
    July 3, July 20 and Aug 10, 1993.

    On Aug 15, 1993, Dr. Sasaki said he saw patient, with Debbie Rowe. He was complaining to pain in scar area, area had healed completely.
    Dr. Sasaki said he injected site with pain reliever, gave Demerol 100 mg, suggested MJ to see pain specialist.
    Aug 15, 1993 Dr. Sasaki prescribed Demerol to MJ under Omar Arnold. This was the first and last time Dr. Sasaki gave Demerol to MJ, he said
    Dr. Sasaki explained Demerol is for acute pain, not chronic pain, following major surgery.
    Q: About how often do you prescribe Demerol?
    A: None
    Because I don’t do that kind of surgery that requires that kind of pain medication, Dr Sasaki testified.
    Dr. Sasaki said MJ was the only patient he injected with Demerol.

    He testified he is not familiar with MJ’s announcement in 1993 about being dependent on prescription medication.
    I’m totally ignorant regarding that, Dr. Sasaki said.
    May 1998 was last time Dr. Sasaki saw and spoke with MJ. He knew doctors Hoefflin, Klein and Metzger treated MJ back then.

    That ended the video deposition. Jurors ordered to return tomorrow at 10:45 am PT. Juror 6 has a court hearing somewhere else.
    Debbie Rowe is expected to take the stand tomorrow. We hope to see you then for complete coverage of her testimony.
    For the latest, watch @ABC7 and go to . Have a good evening everyone!


  29. alice permalink
    August 14, 2013 5:24 pm

    Thanks so much for posting the review, Helena!
    I really appreciate it.
    Thanks for your efforts too, Sina.
    I doubt very much Prince (the artist, not Michael’s son) will actually be called to testify even though he’s on the witness list but I still very much wanted to know to what level he was dissatisfied with his experience of them. It does make for interesting reading. Thankyou!
    I know AEG also worked on tours for Britney Spears. I think it would be very telling if we saw some of the emails executives may have sent around about her during that time…
    Unfortunately it would not be in her interests to do so and I’m sure her conservatorship over her would prevent this.
    I also found Kenny’s reference to responsibility very weird.
    Something about the way Putnam introduced the topic and Kenny was able to answer so… smoothly? I’m not sure if that’s the word I want… but the particular way he approaches the answer isn’t exactly something that he would have formulated within the few seconds he had to respond, you know?
    It doesn’t feel as obviously staged as that stupid Mark Lester interaction with Randy Phillips & Putnam (what was it, four name mentions? and the whole time Phillips ONLY ever refers to him by his full name?? he’s not James Bond for heaven’s sake… who talks like that? you half expected him to spell out the guy’s last name so the jury and press could catch it all…) but there is something about it which makes me think this was either a conclusion Kenny came to himself during the time period he was away from the stand these past few weeks, or Putnam put the thought into his mind before getting back on the stand. “I’m going to ask you a bit about responsibility for our own actions so… just think on that will you…”


  30. alice permalink
    August 14, 2013 5:27 pm

    I’m going to make it a rule to myself that I can’t press send until I’ve proofread everything at least six times.

    In my post below I say: “Unfortunately it would not be in her interests to do so and I’m sure her conservatorship over her would prevent this.”

    I should have clarified that I meant Britney speaking of her experience with AEG would not be in here interests, also due to conservatorship, etc…

    The way it reads below probably brings up a different interpretation.


  31. alice permalink
    August 14, 2013 5:36 pm

    “Panish asked if he came up with numbers after speaking with his attorneys yesterday.
    Today is typically after yesterday, Ackerman responded.
    Judge struck the answer.”
    Rude, arrogant git.
    I also expect his bringing three folders of ‘research’ and stacking it behind him for three whole minutes was clearly staged for the effect of a visual response to Panish ripping Briggs to shreds over his lack of research and tiny half-inch stack of paper in.
    Also, does anyone understand the point of AEG attorney Sabrina Strong asking Ackerman on the stand how tall he is? (6 foot 7)
    It’s her first question to him and then she just moves on from there.
    I mean yeah, 6 foot 7 is tall, but seriously?
    What is the point of that?


  32. alice permalink
    August 14, 2013 5:47 pm

    Hey Helena,

    RE: “[I think that losses should be calculated on the estimation of the damage done not only to the family but the world]”

    Wow, what a point. Can you imagine if the fans sued AEG also? Though I doubt we can because they are already being tried for that same charge now.
    And what about all the countries that have lost the ability to boost their economy by hosting Michael for a concert or showing his movies… things like that do wonders for the local economy with guests and crew needing somewhere to stay and pay for it… catering needs to come from somewhere… tourists will come to the area and stay also…
    Then there’s the profits from DVDs that would have been released after his tour as well… plus the music he was working on with… if there’s anyone who knows how to monetize things it’s him…
    And I’d hedge a bet that Michael’s decision to release one single at a time for each of the 10 concerts (that he agreed to) at London would have made infinitely more money than the posthumous controversy-ridden Michael album.
    Random thought – when are Frank Dileo’s emails being brought in??


  33. alice permalink
    August 14, 2013 11:19 pm

    Hey all,

    So I’m sure as most of you know Debbie Rowe was on the stand today.
    The media are obviously all over it like a rash and she does certainly give a lot of compelling and quotable testimony.
    I do have a few questions though…
    If she was aware doctors were not looking after Michael and only trying to outdo each other, as well as pretend to treat him but only sedating him, WHY didn’t she say or do something to stop them? I understand she turned to Dr Metzger eventually but why not report the conduct of the other doctors if she was so worried?
    And she also describes how she was the one who told Michael he needed to go to rehab during the Dangerous tour and it was her doing and words that got him there…Is she forgetting a little woman called Elizabeth Taylor?
    There are some other things that immediately raised questions for me as well, but she certainly paints a very sad picture of the lies and dishonesty and complete lack of care that was surrounding Michael for much of his life – it certainly brought me to tears a few times.
    Her fiery response to Putnam about whether Dr Metzger was Michael’s physician is worth mentioning too; “I don’t know because Conrad Murray got in there and killed him.”
    Jackson attorney Ms Chang was only given 15 minutes to examine Debbie after AEG had her so Debbie will return tomorrow.
    Love to know what you all think, we are yet to get full transcripts yet, but here is the summary reportage from TeamMJ:


  34. alice permalink
    August 15, 2013 12:30 am

    The few months leading up to Michael’s passing weren’t easy for him for another reason:

    From the New York Post:

    “MADGE [and MJ’s most of all] GUITARIST’S GRIM DEATH
    March 7, 2009 —

    THE unsung hero behind Madonna and Michael Jackson died yesterday morning, and the grieving family of David Williams is furious over the disrespect shown to him by the music community and by what they say was neglect by the hospital where he spent his last days.

    Williams, who was 58, was the guitarist for the pop superstars and toured with both of them as well as Jessica Simpson, Chaka Khan, Lionel Richie and Van Halen for more than three decades, succumbed to complications from high blood pressure.

    Williams collapsed and was taken to Sentara Hospital in Hampton, Va. where he slipped into a coma last week. While he lay dying in ICU, his family was urged to “pull the plug because he had no medical insurance,” a family friend said. “The hospital was trying to force them to pull the plug. This man was a Vietnam veteran and gave his life to music and still had no benefits.”

    Jackson has announced a new tour and Madonna is still a top-grossing act. “But David, who supported them onstage all those years, has nothing,” said the friend. “[His ex-wife] Deborah just wanted him to have some integrity, and instead the hospital was despicable at best over his lack of insurance.”

    On Thursday, the evening before Williams died, Deborah, who had four daughters with him, wrote us: “During this very difficult time where our focus should be on the nurturing and care of David, we are battling with hospital officials just to get and maintain the care he deserves, a hospital whose main interest lies in his ability to pay for his care.” David, like many industry veterans, lived without adequate health insurance.

    A music industry insider said, “What about NARAS [National Academy of Recording Arts & Sciences]? What about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? They collect huge amounts of money every year to help musicians in David’s situation – and they throw themselves parties instead. It’s disgusting.”

    A rep for Sentara said she’d look into the situation but didn’t return calls.”



  35. alice permalink
    August 15, 2013 1:03 am

    ps, if Randy Phillips, Gongaware and Meglen are so keen to play down the demand for Michael maybe the head of Ticketmaster can help refresh their memories:

    “Chris Edmonds, managing director of Ticketmaster U.K., said in a statement: “We have witnessed an unprecedented level of demand for the Michael Jackson concerts at the O2. Unfortunately due to a technical issue, we were unable to facilitate all immediate ticket requests. Apologies to those fans who were unable to log on, but fans should keep on trying to purchase tickets.””

    After tickets sold out, it snared the records for:
    The biggest audience ever to see an artist in one city.
    The most amount of people to attend a series of arena shows.
    The fastest ticket sales in history.

    I also found something a Prince fan mentioned on a Prince forum back in 2009 where AEG sold tickets to a concert that Prince had not even finalised or approved & it had to be cancelled.

    “Remember, they [AEG]sold tickets to a Prince concert a year or two ago when things weren’t finalized and it was cancelled fairly close to the performance date. I learned that after driving up to the L.A. Forum and finding out P had cancelled the show. That was such a HORRIBLE letdown! So now I try to keep myself at the lower end of excitement until the show actually starts.”

    Well that sounds familiar.


  36. alice permalink
    August 15, 2013 4:41 am

    Hey all,

    Just a little heads up.
    TeamMJ have added much more to their personal report from Debbie’s testimony today.
    Link here:
    It’s virtually impossible to read without crying.


  37. August 15, 2013 4:43 am

    “Something about the way Putnam introduced the topic and Kenny was able to answer so… smoothly? I’m not sure if that’s the word I want… but the particular way he approaches the answer isn’t exactly something that he would have formulated within the few seconds he had to respond, you know?” – alice

    Oh, so you also noticed that much of Kenny Ortega’s testimony was staged? Remember that Ortega’s lawyer was provided by AEG, so they do have common strategy. In this connection let me also note that Putnam and Ortega spent unnaturally long time discussing the fact that Michael wanted only Ortega and didn’t want him to leave. On the face of it these conversation look innocent but the very fact that they raised it many times during the testimony made me wonder:

    Putnam: And you said that Mr. Jackson chose you; right?
    A. He invited me, yes.
    Q. And did you have an understanding as to whether Mr. Jackson ever wanted anyone else but you?
    A. I was — no.
    Q. In fact, do you have an understanding as to how badly he wanted you, don’t you, sir?
    A. He told me he only wanted me.
    Q. You were his first and only choice; right?
    A. As I understood it, yes.
    Q. Well, he told you that, did he not?
    A. Yes.

    Panish: Mr. Ortega, have you testified under oath in this case that the producer could fire you if they wanted to?
    A. I assume they could give it a good try.
    Q. Sir, you knew they could fire you. You’ve testified about that in this case, have you not?
    A. I’m saying they could fire me, but I doubt that it would last more than 24 hours.


    The real meaning of this talk is that Ortega evidently set Michael an ultimatum on June 15-16th – “You attend every rehearsal or I leave the show and we pull the plug on it”. It must have been done in a very harsh manner because Karen Faye was so shocked that couldn’t sleep the night and first thing in the morning sent out a message to her boyfriend (which the AEG lawyers did not allow her to read as the message “had not been introduced as evidence” – she indeed found it in her old telephone only the day before).

    After setting the ultimatum Ortega made an open demonstration of his intentions and even left LA for one day, allowing Randy Phillips and Murray to sort it out with MJ. When he arrived he learned from Phillips that from now on he (Phillips) and Murray would be personally responsible for MJ’s scheduling and attendance. Somewhere around that time such expressions like “tough love”, now-or-never card”, etc. were used for blackmailing MJ and at some point Ortega admitted that “tough love” was his expression:

    Q. And — and you understood when you raised these concerns that Randy Phillips and Dr. Murray were both going to be responsible for M.J.’s rehearsal and attendance schedule, correct?
    A. I recall it was Dr. Murray that was going to be responsible for the schedule.
    Q. Okay. And attendance?
    A. The schedule.
    Q. Well, let’s put up your testimony.
    A. Okay.
    Q. That’s page 9937, lines 12 to 21. Okay? This is what you testified when you were here before. Do
    you remember that?
    A. Okay.
    Q. And you told the truth then, didn’t you, sir?
    A. I always try to tell my — the truth.
    Q. Okay. All right. Good. And your memory, was it better then than it is today, or is it better today?
    A. It gets better all the time.
    Q. I wish I had that. Let’s go up and put up what you said, Mr. Ortega. Let’s start — I’m just going to go through line 12.
    Q. So at some point in time, you raised some concerns, and we’ll get back to that, but it was before this,right?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And you understood after concerns that you had raised that Randy Phillips and Dr. Murray were both going to be responsible for MJ’s rehearsal and attendance schedule? Is that what you understand?
    A. Yes.

    Q. Do you know what time Michael Jackson was supposed to be at rehearsal on the 18th?
    A. I’ve seen emails, Mr. Panish; but I don’t recall.
    Q. You were upset that day, though, right?
    A. I believe I was.
    Q. And do you recall whether you told Karen Faye that Dr. Murray and Randy Phillips had held some sort of intervention with Michael?
    A. Do I recall having a conversation with Karen Faye where I told them that Dr. Murray and Randy were having an intervention with Michael?
    Q. Yes.
    A. I don’t recall that.
    …Q. Do you recall whether you told — told Karen Faye that AEG was funding Michael’s entire life right now; his food, kids and everything?
    A. No.
    Q. Okay. Do you recall whether you ever told Karen Faye that AEG has told Michael that they’ll pull the plug if he doesn’t get it together?
    A. Maybe in some capacity to that.
    Q. Okay. How about did you ever tell Karen Faye that AEG had told Michael that if he doesn’t do this, he loses everything?
    A. No.
    Q. Okay. Did you ever tell Karen Faye that any hand-holding of Michael had been removed?
    A. Again, we may have had a conversation about something like that, sir; but those — that wouldn’t have been the way I would have talked to Karen.

    In other words on June 15-16th Ortega made a big row and set an ultimatum. Phillips arranged an “intervention” for Michael and when Ortega returned pacified him with assurances that now both he and Murray would take care of MJ’s attendance of rehearsals.

    On June 18th Michael came to rehearsal, was stoic as Karen Faye said but looked very frightened. And when he came on June 19th it was Ortega’s turn to get frightened – he realized that he had gone too far. This is why he talked of a psychiatrist and of Michael’s state of mind – “he was like a lost boy, he begged me to stay with him,” etc. And the next day the same was repeated “Don’t leave me. I promise to take the reins.”

    All of it produces the impression that they were not so much discussing Michael and his health, but Ortega’s involvement and fears that he would fulfil his threat to leave the show. Even Conrad Murray’s words look a little different in this context:

    Q. And he went on to say that Mr. Jackson was physically capable of handling the show; correct?
    A. Yes.
    Q. He said that Mr. Jackson was emotionally capable of handling the show?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And last time you said that at that point, Mr. Jackson stepped into the conversation. You remember
    A. Yes.
    Q. And you said that Mr. Jackson told you he was ready to take the reins?
    A. Yes.
    Q. He told you not to worry?
    A. Yes.
    Q. He thanked you for worrying but told you not to be afraid?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And he assured you he was fine; right?
    A. Pardon me?
    Q. He assured you that he was fine? Michael Jackson.
    A. I didn’t feel assured.
    Q. I was going to go there next. But he said he tried to assure you that he was fine?
    …A. He said — I just remember him saying, “don’t leave me. I’m going to take the reins. You’ll see. We
    can do this,” you know. And he did seem absolutely stronger and committed.
    Q. On the 20th?
    A. On that moment, yeah. At that moment.

    Ortega’s role in pressurizing Michael is heavily underestimated and is most probably not pursued by Panish not to distract attention from AEG, but he does play a very big role in Michael’s demise.


  38. alice permalink
    August 15, 2013 5:04 am

    Hi everyone again – I’m so sorry I know you must be getting sick of my comments!

    This is off topic from Debbie from a second (when I manage to tear myself away from re-reading her testimony), I’ve found this article from the LA times which is an interesting read about the use of experts in the trial and how much they cost… the reporter also takes care to note a nice comparison between Briggs’ ludicrous costings for such little testimony of worth in comparison to one Jackson expert who is donating all of his costings from testify to a Michigan hospital. It’s a good read.
    Link here:
    And now I return back to Debbie… the testimony that just keeps on giving.


  39. alice permalink
    August 15, 2013 5:27 am

    Hello Helena!

    Thankyou so much for the response. I hope you are well 🙂

    “Oh, so you also noticed that much of Kenny Ortega’s testimony was staged?”

    Yes, just this second one of his when he returned to the stand. The first one, not so much. This second one, just particularly that moment I highlighted, I could sense it rather than notice it – if that makes sense? Put it this way – in my view it was not as obviously staged as Phillips was with Putnam and that stupid Mark Lester moment (though, to be honest, Phillips entire testimony was full of stupid moments), but more… prepared?
    It just felt like a few topics had been hinted at by Kenny’s lawyer beforehand, or something.
    “Just consider these issues… you’ll probably get asked about this…” In broad terms.
    Yes, I know his lawyer is being paid for by AEG. I don’t think Kenny wants to directly destroy the Jackson case or anything – but he wouldn’t want to destroy his career either.

    “In this connection let me also note that Putnam and Ortega spent unnaturally long time discussing the fact that Michael wanted only Ortega and didn’t want him to leave.”

    Mmm, I agree this was dwelled upon unnecessarily – especially as it was already covered in his first time on the stand. I believe it’s true, of course, that Michael did want him. But Putnam’s preoccupation with it is just weird, now. Like he’s trying to whitewash Kenny as a completely independent witness when he isn’t, he’s a ‘hostile’ one in the judge’s terms. So even though he’s on the Jackson witness list, he’s not independent or beholden to them. I also find the fact that AEG attorneys were so insistent on calling Debbie a hostile witness today, how they had to drag her in with a subpoena, as though she had heaps of dirt about Michael’s ‘DESPERATE SEARCH FOR DRUGS BECAUSE DIDN’T YOU KNOW IT’S ALL HIS FAULT HE DIED NOT OURS’. But some of the consensus now is that egg is all over AEG’s faces because Debbie’s testimony could easily be interpreted as clearing Michael of blame and instead placing it on all the doctors who failed him and took advantage of him. Now even CNN are blasting AEG for their stupidity at bringing her in, which says something. I just find it interesting that AEG will only announce the agenda or non-agenda of a witness when they think it suits them.

    “The real meaning of this talk is that Ortega evidently set Michael an ultimatum on June 15-16th – “You attend every rehearsal or I leave the show and we pull the plug on it”. It must have been done in a very harsh manner because Karen Faye was so shocked that couldn’t sleep the night and first thing in the morning sent out a message to her boyfriend (which the AEG lawyers did not allow her to read as the message “had not been introduced as evidence” – she indeed found it in her old telephone only the day before).”

    Mmm, I note and appreciate your view on this but am still not 100% convinced that it was an ultimatum in that specific kind of manner. I’m not personally sure that what Karen texted to her boyfriend was something to do with Kenny. If it was powerful enough for AEG attorneys to try and block I think it has to do with AEG execs directly. Again, that’s just my current view and I always welcome your thoughts. Do we know if there is a transcript from when the AEG lawyers were objecting it being entered? It would be interesting to hear her answer and justification for not including something like this.

    I do agree Kenny played a role in the pressure on Michael but I’m still hesitant that he was doing it intentionally or cruelly like most everyone else. I feel Kenny felt under pressure also with such an appalling schedule set by AEG to get such an enormous production ready in time, and also pressure he placed himself under to produce a concert that was perfect for Michael. The same kind of pressure Michael would put upon himself to create perfection.
    But I’m always open to new knowledge.


  40. alice permalink
    August 15, 2013 7:08 am

    Tom Mesereau shares his thoughts with Piers Morgan on Debbie’s testimony so far…

    Link here:

    Embed below:



  41. August 15, 2013 8:35 am

    “I’m not personally sure that what Karen texted to her boyfriend was something to do with Kenny.” – Alice

    It was about Ortega and what he told her the night before. Only this information was not disclosed and was only indirectly reflected in some questions/answers in Karen Faye’s second testimony and it was never returned to by either of the sides as far as I know. Most probably those messages were blocked at some sidebar.

    From Karen Faye’s testimony on June 28:

    Q. And those subpoenas asked you to hand over documents that related to Mr. Jackson’s time period; correct?
    A. Correct.
    Q. As well as texts and phone messages?
    A. Correct.
    Q. But you didn’t hand those over to us; right?
    A. I had no idea I still had the phone, sir.
    Q. But since you’ve testified, you’ve now found those texts?
    A. When I was sick, sir, I was looking, because I was trying to remember stuff and dates and… yes, sir.
    Q. Did it help you remember stuff now?
    A. It helped me clarify some dates, sir.
    Q. And did you turn those texts over?
    A. I gave them to….
    Q. To whom?
    A. To plaintiffs, sir.
    Q. Did you give them to the people who asked for them in the actual subpoenas that you were given?
    A. No, sir.
    Q. No? So you didn’t hand them to them. You found them and gave them over to plaintiffs?
    A. (no audible response.)
    Q. Did we receive those?
    A. I don’t know, sir.
    Q. Did you ask them to give them to us?
    Mr. Putnam: I guess we’re getting them now.
    Mr. Panish: Better now than never.
    A. when did I…
    Judge: when did you give them to them?
    A. just recently.
    Judge: just now?
    A. yeah. I mean, like, today.
    Mr. Putnam: you gave them to them today?
    Judge: OK. All right.
    Mr. Putnam: is that what you’re saying? You gave them to them today?
    A. Yeah. This morning.
    Mr. Panish: Okay. And then you went back and, as you told him today, you found your old phone and you found text messagesregarding certain events, correct?
    A. Correct.
    Q. Okay. And you told us earlier about the circumstances in which the text messages were prepared. Don’t tell me what’s in them. And were those text messages contemporaneous of the events that you heard from Mr. Ortega? But don’t tell me what he said.
    A. Correct.
    Ms. Stebbins: Objection; vague as to “contemporaneous.” Your honor, I think we’re going to need that sidebar.
    Judge: Overruled.
    Mr. Panish: Can I do that? Is that okay?
    Q. And when Mr. Ortega — you told me that day, the 18th, was upset, what was your reaction — strike that. Don’t tell me what Mr. Ortega said; but did he make some statements in your presence that day, without telling me what he said?
    A. Yes.
    Q. Okay. And how did you feel when you heard the statements that he made? Don’t tell us what he said.
    A. No. I’m just trying to go back to that time when I heard it to try to be accurate of my feelings. I was pretty — I was pretty upset about it because it wasn’t —

    Q. I don’t want you to say what’s there.
    A. No.
    Q. I’m going to get in trouble.
    A. It wasn’t what I thought should happen.
    Q. Okay. Was it upsetting to you?
    A. Yes, sir, it was upsetting to me.
    Q. And you got home at what time that night?
    A. 2:30, sir.
    Q. And the minute you woke up, did you write a text reflecting exactly what Mr. Ortega had said?
    A. Yes, sir.
    Q. At that time, did you have any idea whether or not Mr. Jackson would be dead six days later?
    A. No, sir.
    Q. Were you still upset when you wrote the text?
    A. Yes, sir.
    Q. At the time that you sent the text, did you have any idea that there was going to be this lawsuit?
    A. No, sir.
    Q. How was Michael’s demeanor and psychological psyche on June 19th?
    Ms. Stebbins: Objection as to psychological psyche, your honor. This is a lay witness.
    Judge: Sustained.
    Q. How would you describe Michael’s emotional state on June 19?
    A. June 19 or June 18?
    Q. Let’s go to June — let’s take June 18.
    A. Because the 18th was the day he came back to the — at 9:30.
    Q. 9:30 at night?
    A. At night.
    Q. And how was he doing there?
    A. He was pretty much — I reported — I think I said that before, that he was almost kind of catatonic. He was like so stoic,I think is the word that I used. Usually he’s kind of happy and stuff, but he appeared to be scared to death.
    Q. And that’s at 9:30 at night?
    A. When he came in.

    Q. Who is Barry?
    A. Barry is my boyfriend, sir.
    Q. Okay. Did something happen, don’t tell me what it is, on June 18 that caused you serious concern?
    A. Yes, sir.
    Q. Okay. And what time at night did you get home when you were concerned about this event? Don’t tell me what it is.
    A. You’re asking me what time, but don’t tell you?
    Q. No, no. What time did you get home? Sorry. Do you remember what time you got home?
    A. Yes.
    Q. What time?
    A. 2:30 in the morning.
    Q. Okay. Were you very upset?
    A. Yes, sir.
    Q. Okay. The next morning when you awoke, did you immediately do something? Don’t tell me what it was, just whether or not you did something.
    A. Yes, sir.
    Q. Did you send a text — don’t tell me what was in it — to anyone at that time immediately upon awakening?
    A. Yes, sir.
    Q. And do you know did Michael come to rehearsal on June 18th?
    A. Yes, sir; but late.
    Q. What time did he come?
    A. He came in at 9:30, sir.
    Q. How was Mr. — Mr. Ortega’s demeanor on that date?
    A. Earlier, he was very angry, sir.
    Q. What did you observe — don’t tell me what he said — in his demeanor?
    A. He was very angry that Michael hadn’t been to rehearsal yet.
    Q. Do you know whether — don’t tell me — just yes or no, whether a meeting occurred with Michael Jackson and anyone else that day?
    A. Yes, sir.
    Ms. Stebbins: Objection; lacks foundation. Her only foundation, your honor, for this is hearsay. We’ve had lengthy sidebars on this before.
    Mr. Putnam: This was a lengthy sidebar when she testified last time.
    Ms. Stebbins: Originally, your honor, several weeks ago. We’ve gone far down this road before.
    Judge: How much more do you have on your examination? In other words, can we come back to this and you can finish what you have?


  42. August 15, 2013 8:58 am

    Alice, I’ve embedded the Youtube video from your link. It is some wordpress problem.

    Here is one more youtube video with Thomas Mesereau:


  43. alice permalink
    August 15, 2013 9:22 am

    Hey Helena,

    Oh my goodness yes, of course! How could I forget that part of Karen’s testimony?
    Thankyou so much for reminding me and re-posting that part of it for me.
    Gosh, you can see how easy it may be for the jury to forget these things too.
    A scary thought.
    Thankyou for embedding the video also.


  44. August 15, 2013 10:11 am

    “Gosh, you can see how easy it may be for the jury to forget these things too. A scary thought.”

    Alice, the jury evidently never grasped that all that stress put on Michael prior to June 19th was Ortega’s doing, otherwise they wouldn’t be applauding him. It was a shameful episode. The media is not covering Ortega’s role and the trial provides too much information for me to go over everything, so all these things will have to be returned to later.

    In the meantime here is Debbie Rowe’s testimony which clarifies a lot. She is fantastic and the truth about Michael is much more thrilling than any lies they invented about him.

    The ABC tweets:

    Hello from the courthouse in downtown LA. Very busy day today in Jackson family vs AEG trial. Debbie Rowe took the stand.
    Katherine Jackson was present in court, wearing a floral jacket with purple, fuchsia and grey.
    Deborah J. Rowe on the stand. AEG attorney Marvin Putnam is conducting the direct examination. She’s testifying pursuant to a subpoena.
    Rowe: It’s a little warm in here.
    Putnam: How are you doing today?
    Rowe: I took a shower (people laughed).
    Putnam: Did you do anything to prepare for your testimony today?
    Putnam named several attorneys for both sides and asked Rowe if she knew them. She knew some by name only, mostly she said no.
    Rowe said she lives 60 miles away. “I sat in traffic at a light for 20 minutes! 20 minutes! ”
    He became a patient, that’s how I met him, Rowe said about MJ.
    Rowe said she breeds and trains quarter horses and paint horses for 10 years. She was born in Spokane, Washington.
    Rowe’s father was a pilot for the Air Force. Her parents divorced, the kids moved to Los Angeles. Rowe was 11.
    She went to Hollywood High, Valley College, studied to be a nurse tech, EMT, began working with Dr. Klein.
    Rowe studied to be EMT — Emergency Medical Technician. She worked for extern time with Shaffer ambulance company.
    Rowe began working with Dr. Klein in July 1978-79. She said she’s not good with dates, but is good with facts. “I hated history,” she jokes.
    She graduated high school in 1977, went to college for a year, EMT class and then began working at Dr. Klein.
    One of the girls who studied with her worked in the insurance billing of Klein’s office and said the dermatologist was looking for assistant
    He was a legend in his own mind, Rowe said about Dr. Klein. “We had a very high profile clientele.”
    Rowe said Klein is a dermatologist, began working on skin diseases, then specialized on Botox and collagen, which he’s most known for now
    She worked with Dr Klein until 1997. Rowe said she’d take patients to the room, take their history, find out why they came to see the doctor
    She explained the procedure, return call for the doctor, did biopsy reports, scheduled appointments.
    Michael encourage me to go back to college, Rowe said, that’s why she left Dr. Klein’s office in 97.
    Rowe did Antioch University for 2 1/2 years. She got a degree in psychology. Rowe left LA and started her horse breeding in Palmdale.
    Rowe said Dr. Klein would see high profile patients after hours or weekend. She got a call from Dr. Klein and tried really hard not to go.
    She said even though they we not registered nurses, Dr. Klein called them nurses instead assistants.
    Rowe said she opened the door of the room and MJ was there. “I introduced myself, said nobody does what you do better, you’re amazing.”
    And nobody does what I do better, I’m amazing. She said MJ laughed about it and that’s when the friendship started. This was in 1982 or 84
    This was the first time, to Rowe’s knowledge, that MJ went to see Dr. Klein.
    Putnam asked what kind of treatment it was. Rowe asked judge if she’s allowed to disclose medical information about patient. Judge said yes
    He was there for acne, Rowe responded. MJ was a patient of Dr. Klein until the time he passed away.
    Rowe said Dr. Klein would call her, but she was probably the worse nurse, not formal at all.
    She said she’s great hand holder but not a good to have scientific discussions. And Michael liked her casualness that way.
    He came in more frequently, Rowe said after MJ was diagnosed with lupus in 93. “We would speak on the phone, quite often.”
    They spoke regularly until they were divorced. Rowe said she married MJ in 1996. They were married for 3 years.
    She said she didn’t move to Palmdale until 2002. Rowe said besides acne, they treated MJ for lupus and vitiligo.
    She said she doesn’t remember when collagen was approved by FDA. I know for sure it was during “Dangerous” tour. Putnam said it was 1992/93
    MJ was receiving collagen before the tour for acne scar. Botox was not available yet.
    Rowe: Not in the beginning, I think we did it without anything once or twice.
    Putnam: Was he being given pain medication or numbing?
    Rowe said they’d give MJ 100 mg of Demerol intramuscular. “I gave him the injection,” she said. “Because of the pain of collagen injection.”
    Putnam: Where there other drugs for pain?
    Rowe: The only thing was 100 mg of Demerol.
    He had a low tolerance for pain, Rowe said.
    P: Valium?
    Rowe: No
    Putnam: How about percodan?
    R: No
    Putnam: How about Vicodin?
    Rowe: Not for procedures in the office.
    Michael respected doctors tremendously that they went to school and studied. And meant no harm, Rowe said, crying.
    Rowe begins to cry.
    Unfortunately some doctors decided when Michael was in pain that they would try to outbid each other on who could give the better drug
    So he listened to the doctors. Rowe said the doctors were Klein and Hoefflin.
    MJ asked Rowe to be present to make sure everything was ok. “Michael had a very low pain tolerance,” she said.
    His fear of pain was incredible, Rowe said, crying. “And I think the doctors took advantage of him in that way.”
    Rowe: If someone comes to you and say they’re the best at what they do and someone else that you see claims the same, who do you listen to?
    Rowe said Dr Sasaki prescribed Percodan and Vicodin to MJ after the scalp surgery. Sasaki’s procedure on MJ was extremely painful, Rowe said
    Michael Jackson’s doctors:
    Klein — dermatologist
    Metzger — internist
    Hoefflin — plastic surgeon
    Rowe went to see MJ twice a day and over the weekend when he had the surgery.
    Rowe said docs Klein and Hoefflin were competing. “I was concerned that he was not getting better, the two doctors were going back and forth
    … and I needed one doctor to talk to me. And I chose Dr. Metzger.” Rowe said.
    She said she called Metzger as a friend, since it was probably not appropriate to call another doctor to rat out the doctor you worked for
    Klein was not doing what was the best for Michael, Rowe testified.
    The only physician who ever did anything, who cared for Michael was Dr. Metzger, Rowe said, crying again.
    Putnam asked if there was any other doctor who treated until he passed. “Dr. Murray got in there and killed him, so I don’t know,” she said.
    Rowe said that after the burn, his scalp had scars and, because he was black, he developed keloid, thickening, painful scars.
    He didn’t want to wear the hairpiece, Rowe said. They were going in and having ballon expansion surgery every week.
    His sensitivity to pain was off the charts at this time, Rowe explained.
    Putnam: What was your concern with Dr. Hoefflin?
    Rowe: Overprescribing medications.
    You don’t call someone and say here, let’s take dilaudid instead of aspirin when you’re trying to get off, she said.
    These idiots were going back and forth all the time and not caring about him, Rowe said.
    Dilaudid is a form of morphine, she said. Putnam asked if MJ took the stronger painkiller.
    No, because I took it away, Rowe said. “Hoefflin gave it to him and I said no, you’re not taking it. So I threw it away.”
    He was so afraid of pain because the pain was so great, Rowe recalled.
    Rowe said she ended up with Michael all the time, until the procedure was over. “I think he had to rehearse for the tour.”
    Dr. Metzger laid out plan to reduce Demerol and substitute medication for non-narcotic.
    Rowe: To wean him off narcotic to non-narcotic, because he was leaving to go on tour.
    I was the one giving the medication to Michael at the time, Rowe said.
    Rowe: He (MJ) had a place in Century City, I worked in BH, I would be there every day to take lunch, stopped before going home.
    She would come back if MJ needed. That lasted 6 weeks, until MJ went on tour, she said.
    Rowe said she didn’t know anything about Propofol back then. She now knows Diprivan is the same as Propofol.
    MJ was getting Diprivan for procedures. Rowe said she doesn’t know if it was at Dr. Hoefflin or Klein’s office, maybe for collagen injection
    Rowe said Klein had a handful of patients who got Demerol for collagen injections.
    Hoefflin had an anesthesiologist and surgical suite in his office. Over the years, Rowe said Hoefflin gave Diprivan to MJ probably 10 times
    Rowe: However, there were occasions that MJ wanted to have it, he had extensive scarring on his nose that made it difficult to breathe.
    Rowe said there were occasions Michael asked Hoefflin to do inject steroids on his nose, and Dr. Hoefflin would put MJ out.
    He didn’t treat him, he would tape him as he had injected him, Rowe testified.
    It took him a little while to wake up, 4-5 hours, which I think it’s normal for plastic surgeon.
    Rowe said when anesthetist David Fournier woke MJ up, it was maybe 1 hour for Michael to recover. With Hoefflin, she was there for 4-6 hours
    Rowe explained Dr. Hoefflin said he didn’t see the scaring in MJ’s nose, so he wasn’t going to do the procedure.
    Putnam: But he told Michael he had done the procedure?
    Rowe: Yes
    Putnam asked when Propofol was used in MJ. “Only with the injections for scaring around the nose,” Rowe responded.
    Putnam: Otherwise he would not have Propofol?
    Rowe: Diprivan. All the time I went to see Dr. Hoefflin he put him under.
    Rowe: Fournier is a nurse anesthetist, would come to the office with all the equipment to monitor Michael.
    Rowe: He was allowed to do it until 1996, when law changed and it had to be done at surgery center.
    Rowe said she doesn’t remember who the person giving Diprivan was in Dr. Hoefflin’s office. She described Fournier as a very nice man.
    Rowe said MJ got Diprivan (Propofol) when Dr. Klein injected collagen, if we had to do acne treatments.
    She said Dr. Klein has 5-6 patients who take Diprivan for collagen injection and Botox.
    After lunch, Rowe is back on the stand.
    Putnam: How are you doing, Ms. Rowe?
    Rowe: I missed you…
    Everybody laughed.
    Putnam asked if MJ talked about going to doctors office to sleep. “He talked with Dr. Metzger about that,” Rowe said.
    She testified that after Hoefflin put him out, it took him 4-5 hours to wake up. Whereas in Klein’s office, in one hour he was fine.
    He did have trouble sleeping, Rowe said.
    Putnam: Did he tell you he sometimes went to a doctor to be put under to sleep?
    Rowe: It was he got sleep after he had the procedure done.
    Putnam: So he didn’t get put under to get sleep?
    Rowe: No, I misunderstood what you asked (during her deposition).
    Putnam played video deposition of Rowe.
    Putnam: And did you have an understanding MJ would seek help to sleep at doctor’s office?
    Rowe: Not until we became friends
    Putnam: Did he ever discuss it with you?
    Rowe: Only when I was there
    Putnam: Did he get sleep at doctor’s office?
    Rowe: Sometimes
    Putnam: Do those include the 3 times he was out of the country?
    Rowe: Yes
    Putnam: You were insisted to be there?
    Rowe: Yes
    Rowe: I wanted to make sure he woke up (crying)
    Putnam: Why did you insist on that?
    Rowe: He was put down, procedure didn’t take 1 hour, but for some reason the anesthesiologist put him under, he slept longer than Fournier.
    Rowe clarified that MJ wasn’t put to sleep, he didn’t have the IV running, he was in the recovery room sleeping.
    Rowe: For whatever reason, he was in the recovery room for 5-6 hours as opposed to an hour in our office.
    I don’t know what the difference in how they sedated Michael, Rowe said.
    Putnam: Did it concern you?
    You make it sound like he was going in all the time, but he wasn’t, Rowe said crying. “You’re talking about a 12 year period.”
    Rowe said the scalp surgery was different from the time he was having scar tissue on his nose and couldn’t breathe.
    She said MJ would go in sometimes every 6 months, some times sooner than that to see Dr. Hoefflin.
    Putnam: How often was he seeing Dr. Klein?
    Rowe: In the early 90s, not that often.
    Rowe: We tried not using an anesthesiologist, and that’s when Klein suggested to use Demerol.
    Rowe: After his scalp surgery, it’s when the issue with his pain became more of a problem. His fear of pain became a bigger issue.
    He didn’t have that before, the Demerol he got was enough, Rowe explained.
    Rowe said MJ didn’t come in for collagen unless he had to do a performance or appearance somewhere.
    Putnam: Did you believe when he told you he was in pain?
    Rowe: Klein was injecting him in the lower eyelid, yeah, I believed him.
    Rowe said in the beginning when they did the collagen they were doing it on the nasal-labial fold.
    But the pain was closer to the nose area because of the scaring, it was turning black and blue.
    Rowe: When he’d lose weight, this would come up. He would lose weight because he was rehearsing. He lost 8-9 lbs of water every show he did.
    Rowe: It’s when you get to the eyes and around the eyes, it does hurt. We didn’t start doing the center of the face until later.
    Rowe said in “Dangerous” tour (92-93) there was collagen for nasal-labial fold, acne treatment and management of lupus.
    Rowe said she was assigned to MJ. “He was my patient,” she said. She was the assistant Michael would have.
    Rowe said MJ was getting Diprivan with Dr. Hoefflin because it was for surgical procedure.
    Rowe said after the procedure with Dr. Sasaki in 93, she was concerned with MJ’s use of prescription drugs.
    I don’t remember if it was worse and worse (the pain), or it was just not getting better, Rowe said.
    Rowe: MJ had seen Hoefflin, Hoefflin had given him dilaudid and MJ called Klein. Klein didn’t understand anything he was saying on phone.
    I left the office and stayed with him at the Sheraton, Rowe said. She believes dilauded is a morphine.
    Putnam: Was this around the time of the first allegations against MJ?
    Rowe: No.
    Rowe: He was heavily under the influence of whatever Hoefflin had given him. The bottle on the dresser when I walked in and I took the pills
    Rowe: I put them in my purse
    Putnam: You took them?
    P: Did you tell him you were taking it?
    R: Yes
    Putnam: What did you say?
    Rowe: I’m taking this, you’re f***ed up, I’m sorry.
    Putnam: What did he answer?
    Rowe: He said yeah, and then I asked if he was ok. Then I unplugged all the phones in the hotel room.
    Rowe: He liked to talk on the phone, you couldn’t understand him, I didn’t want him to embarrass himself. I was there all night.
    Rowe said she doesn’t know why MJ was at the Sheraton, she thinks he never told her.
    Rowe said there was Dr. Sasaki in 93, Sheraton going on, MJ was getting ready for a tour, a leg of a tour, I don’t know which.
    Rowe: We couldn’t get grip of pain, Sasaki had stepped away, Hoefflin and Klein were having a pissing contest over who gave him better drugs
    Not a contest, a pissing match, Rowe said.
    Rowe said MJ was fine the next morning, he didn’t need anything.
    I didn’t leave dilaudid with him and didn’t leave the medication that Klein sent him, Rowe explained.
    Rowe said she took meds from Klein’s office and she knows Hoefflin’s drugs came from his office also, there was no prescription.
    Putnam: Was Dr. Klein giving MJ Demerol?
    Rowe: If he was seeing Klein for acne treatment, yes.
    Rowe said it started with 50 mg of Demerol, Klein bumped up to 100 mg
    then 100 mg with 50 mg of disteril.
    She said the disteril was to give less demerol. Disteril is like benadryl, she explained.
    Rowe: There were times I’d take the Demerol out and give more Disteril. Because I didn’t think he needed that much.
    Putnam: Did you ever tell Klein you changed the doses?
    Rowe: No. He was my boss, he was the doctor, he didn’t need to know I called Metzger
    We couldn’t get a grip on the pain, when tissue expands gets bigger and bigger gets more pain, Rowe said.
    Putnam asked about the Fentanyl patch. Rowe said she doesn’t know the details of the patch, but knows about the patch.
    Rowe said the closer it got for MJ to go on tour, the more often it became (visits to Klein). He’d have to fly Klein and became expensive.
    Putnam: What were you concerned about?
    Rowe: It was the Demerol and him going on tour.
    Rowe: Michael was getting ready to go on tour, he wasn’t completely off Demerol, but he was right there.
    It was a fight to get him there because he had such fear the pain that would happen if we didn’t catch it, Rowe recalled.
    He was going so well, I didn’t want anything to screw up, Rowe testified.
    Putnam asked what happened when she arrived at MJ’s house and everything is gone. Rowe said she was told MJ’s gone on tour.
    Rowe said she was told ‘well they took him, there’s nothing we could do.’
    Rowe: I didn’t know he was leaving. I called Dr. Metzger and told how concerned I was.
    Rowe: I got a call back, said I needed to take all the meds I had to wean him off Demerol and take to this doctor at the Peninsula Hotel.
    Rowe said Metzger had given specific notes on how to give MJ the meds. “I met this doctor at the Peninsula,” she said.
    I offered to go over everything with him, he just grabbed the bag, said I know what I’m doing, and left, Rowe recalled crying.
    Rowe called Metzger and said she was concerned about what had happened.
    I found out Forecast had gone to Bangkok, 1st thing he did he gave MJ 100mg of demerol, screwed everything up we had done Rowe said, crying
    Rowe then points to Jessica Bina, attorney for AEG, and says “She’s mad because… what????” Judge said attorneys need to talk sometimes.
    Putnam: Were you trying to get him off the drugs?
    Rowe: At the very end of this time period yes
    P: Why?
    R: Because he was going on tour
    He knew you don’t stay on, you can’t do narcotics forever. He knew that, Rowe recalled.
    Rowe said Metzger designed a plan to wean him off the drugs. She said she stayed in Century City with MJ most nights.
    He was my friend, Rowe said. They were friends, he was not a patient, she said.
    Putnam: Did you stay to help him with surgery or get off the drugs?
    Rowe: Both
    He was worried about the pain, she said. “I was probably one of the only people who said no to him.”
    Rowe: He respected the doctors and did what they were told to do by the doctors. I was concerned about what Klein and Hoefflin were doing
    Metzger said he was going to talk to Klein and Hoefflin. She heard Metzger on the phone with Klein, said they then became using disteril.
    Putnam: Do you think Michael was proud of what he had done?
    Rowe: Michael was a prideful person.
    Rowe said she told MJ in Mexico City that he had a problem with drugs.
    During the 3 week period in Century City, she didn’t say it was a problem. “I said you’re taking too much, you can’t take this forever.”
    Putnam: Do you know the amount of Demerol he was taking?
    Rowe: Dr. Metzger probably did because of the plan he had put together.
    Putnam: Was it a difficult 3 weeks?
    Rowe: It was for Michael. The fear of the pain, he was very restless.
    Putnam: And when you went to his apartment everthing was gone?
    Rowe: I didn’t know he was leaving.
    That’s why I was so upset that Dr. Forecast was not listening, Rowe explained. “Forecast hadn’t been in on anything over last few months”
    He was taking everything and being an arrogant a** about it, Rowe recalled.
    Rowe said she was at the Peninsula Hotel for not even 5 minutes. She met Dr. Forecast on the lobby.
    She said she believes there was some Demerol, Toradol, notes, everything that had been done, Metzger’s number, Klein’s number.
    Rowe said Dr. Metzger told her to bring all these to Dr. Forecast. She was told Dr. Forecast was going on tour with MJ.
    Dr. Klein treated MJ while on tour. Rowe went with him. She remembered going on the Dangerous and HIStory tours and end of Bad tour.
    Bad tour was just acne treatment, Rowe said. Dangerous tour was acne, collagen and vitiligo; HIStory acne, vitiligo, lupus, collagen.
    Putnam: How about Botox?
    Rowe: I don’t think Botox was approved before I left.
    Putnam: How do you travel with collagen?
    Rowe: It’s almost like you ship the seed of love from a horse in a thermos.
    Everyone laughed.
    Rowe: I’d give Demerol and Disteril and Dr. Klein would treat him.
    Putnam: Was there a time on tour you were concerned with MJ misusing Demerol?
    Rowe: Mexico City
    Rowe said MJ was supposed to go to Puerto Rico after Mexico City, but never made it.
    He was a hot mess, Rowe said when she saw him in Mexico City.
    He was depressed, he had taken something, I don’t know what he had taken or he had gotten it from, Rowe recalled.
    He was on something, that he was taking something. I thought he was back on Demerol, Rowe said.
    Rowe: I walked into the room, his suites were never a mess. The suite was a mess. He wasn’t kept, he was always kept.
    Rowe: He wasn’t making eye contact, he wasn’t speaking, he didn’t make sense when he did and he said was having problem with his scalp again
    We got in a fight, Rowe said. “I’m hot headed, I went off on him about Forecast.”
    Rowe: I was angry that Forecast had intercepted Metzger, that Forecast had undermined everything that was done.
    I thought Forecast was hurting him not helping, Rowe explained. “He was arrogant.”
    It had only been 6 weeks since Rowe had seen Michael. “Then I went to Mexico City and he was a completely different person,” she said.
    You go to Puerto Rico is like going to US, Rowe told MJ. “You need to straighten up, face whatever is going on and we will get through it”
    This fight went on for 2-3 days, Rowe said. “You have to go somewhere to get better or it’s not gonna work,” Rowe told MJ.
    Putnam: Did he admit he had a problem?
    Rowe: He knew that he screwed up. He knew he was messed up.
    He went to some place in England, rehab.
    Michael and I had a few fights and when we had them it was lulus, Rowe described.
    She said she flew off the handle, asked why he flew off the handle, why got angry. “I’m not about to lose my friend over this,” Rowe claimed
    I can’t make everything better as much as I want to, so you have to do it, Rowe testified she told MJ. She cried on the stand again.
    I said it will pass, you haven’t done anything wrong, you just need to be strong, Rowe said.
    Rowe: He felt that he had disappointed me. I told him he hadn’t disappointed me, I blamed it on Forecast.
    Forecast was yet another doctor who didn’t put him first as a patient, as a human being, Rowe expressed.
    Putnam: Did you confront Dr. Forecast?
    Rowe: They would not let me see him, the management people.
    He foolish trusted a lot of people, Rowe said. “He knew I was going to go and chew his a** out.”
    Rowe: I asked security to talk to the doctor, they said I needed to get it cleared, and was told no.
    As far as she knows MJ completed the rehab program.
    Putnam: Did you see after rehab?
    Rowe: Yes
    P: How did he look?
    R: He looked great
    P: Did you talk to him about it?
    R: No, it didn’t interest me at the time. He said he was feeling better and was ok, Rowe testified.
    Putnam: After that, was there ever a time you were concerned with his use of Demerol?
    Rowe: Not like that, no.
    Rowe: No, because he was fine, he was clean. At that time he was really, really busy recording HIStory album.
    Rowe said MJ needed a driver because he was always on the phone. She would drive him from Klein’s office to the studio.
    There were occasions MJ would receive Demerol, she said. After the surgery the area that was done fell apart and started with the pain again
    Putnam: Did he continue to receive Demerol until the time you left Klein?
    Rowe: He did.
    He wasn’t in the office an inordinate amount of time, Rowe testified. She said she saw him on set of “Ghost” and he looked great.
    Putnam asked about MJ using Propofol for sleep. It happened only in Germany, and it was 2 days, she responded.
    Rowe said Prince was a baby, it was 1996, 97 during HIStory tour. “There were 2 anesthesiologists and equipment, looked like surgical suite”
    Putnam: So in Germany during HIStory tour, MJ was taking propofol/diprivan to sleep?
    Rowe: Only those two occasions.
    I believe it was set up through Dr. Metzger, she said.
    Putnam: And no procedure was being done, just to sleep?
    Rowe: Yes
    Putnam: Two nights in a row?
    Rowe: You guys haven’t seen a concert of his
    There’s no way he could ever do concert 2 nights in a row, Rowe testified. “His shows were so physical, usually had 1-2 nights in between”
    “Rowe explained the German tour:
    Day 1 night before show — Propofol
    Day 2 show
    Day 3 nothing
    Day 4 Propofol
    Day 5 show”
    Rowe said Propofol was not done in Paris and London. In Germany, MJ was in a hotel room, doctors came in and set it up.
    I didn’t know we were going to have a second time. She said she didn’t know there was going to be a first time either.
    Rowe said MJ had called Metzger and said he didn’t sleep. “I called Metzger to find out what we could do,” Rowe described.
    They had set everything up and Metzger said the doctors were coming. Rowe said she voiced her concerns to MJ and Metzger.
    She said it was a little drastic to do something like that and they were in another country, she didn’t know the name of the medications.
    Rowe said Dr. Metzger talked to Michael and it wasn’t Dr. Metzger’s first choice.
    Putnam: Why diprivan not sedative, sleeping pills?
    Rowe: I think he tried and it didn’t work. And if he couldn’t sleep, he couldn’t perform.
    P: Did he indicate he had done it before?
    R: No
    He said he was at the end of his rope and didn’t know whate lse to do, Rowe recalled.
    Putnam: Did he indicate he was worried about this? Rowe: He didn’t seem to be. We sat with the doctors and went over all the risks/concerns
    “They said it was the same stuff we had used in the States,” Rowe explained.
    She’s familiar with Fentanyl, Diprivan, but not Propofol, never used that word. “They warned him that any anesthesia is dangerous” Rowe said
    Putnam: Did you tell him you were afraid he might die? Rowe: No, I said what happens if you die.
    “He had so many procedures done with Hoefflin I don’t think he was worried about it,” Rowe said.
    Putnam: Did he seem worried at all? Rowe: No, he just seemed worried about not sleeping.
    Rowe said the doctors did a physical on MJ prior. “I was very impressed, I was very comfortable with Michael being under their care.”
    It was a hard 8 hours period, Rowe said about Diprivan/Propofol. “It was 8 hours and that was it.”
    Rowe said next day MJ warmed up with his voice coach on the phone and went to the venue, rested voice during the day, did meet and greet.
    I asked next day how he was feeling. He said he felt better, Rowe remembered.
    Putnam: Did you remain concerned he had done this?
    Rowe: No, it was the one time
    Putnam: But then he did it again one day later?
    Rowe: Yes
    Rowe: He said he hadn’t slept after the concert, I called Dr. Metzger, I believed it was decided this is something you can’t do all the time
    Rowe: Dr. Stoll and his assistant did it. They did a physical, it was almost exactly the same as the first time.
    They were a little more emphatically you can’t do this, we are not doing this again, Rowe said.
    Rowe recalled this was the end of the tour.”I think we were going to address the issue after.”
    He always had a sleep disorder, but I don’t remember why it had kicked in high gear like it had, Rowe said.
    Rowe said they were going to a sleep facility, she wasn’t with him, she believes Dr. Metzger went along.
    Rowe said that before, MJ had gotten the procedures done and had gotten sleep.
    Even with the doctors in Germany, he woke up, she said. “He was not sound asleep like when he saw Dr. Hoefflin.”
    Rowe: In Germany, he was awaken within 1 hour after the drip had stopped. With Hoefflin, he was in the recovery room, with oxygen, for 5-6 hrs
    He’d come to Klein’s office and sleep, Rowe said.
    Putnam: With Diprivan?
    Rowe: No just sleep.
    Rowe: He slept when he had the procedures at Hoefflin and he slept after Hoefflin had done the procedure.
    Rowe: But that was the only place that had happened that I had seen Michael have anesthesia, that was only place it happened, at Hoefflin’s
    Putnam: After second time in hotel room, were you concerned he was going to do it again?
    Rowe: That wasn’t going to happened again. It just wasn’t going to happen again.
    You don’t give someone Diprivan to sleep. It’s not appropriate, it’s not a labeled use, Rowe expressed.
    He never did it when I was around. It would not have happened, Rowe said about MJ using Diprivan/Propofol again to sleep.
    Putnam: Did security, nanny see him being put under?
    Rowe: No, I’m not going to let anyone in when he’s sleeping. That’s rude.
    She said her and Grace had been in the room while MJ slept. Rowe took notes of the procedure and gave Dr. Metzger to include in his chart.
    I’d go to Europe every other week to see Prince, Rowe said. “We were making Paris.”
    Rowe: After Michael and I decided to separate, Michael got “custody” of the doctors. It was more important for me that he had Metzger.
    Rowe: Because Metzger cared about Michael as a human being, wanted the best for him, talked to him for hours.
    Rowe: Michael could be strong for about 10 minutes, then reasonable and he respected Dr. Metzger very much.
    Rowe: We were married. When I was no longer working with Dr. Klein, I felt like I had a completely different role in his life.
    I couldn’t go in to Dr Klein’s office and look at his chart, it’s illegal. I felt if he wanted me there he’d talk to me about it Rowe said
    He needed somebody to be there for him, to not take him, to not look at him as a cash cow, Rowe expressed.
    Rowe: I wasn’t sure how Michael would be when he woke up. We’d stay in different areas of the hotel because fans would keep the baby awake
    Rowe said that he told Grace if MJ didn’t look ok to not let him alone with the baby.
    Klein at one time was a brilliant physician, and it was very sad what happened to him, Rowe testified.
    Rowe said they would get together at Klein’s office and talk. “Everybody agreed that it was a little too much to have Diprivan to sleep.”
    Paris was for the last time Rowe saw Michael. That would’ve been in 2003.
    Putnam: When it came out he died of overdose of Propofol, how did you react?
    Rowe: I actually called Dr Klein and said ‘what did you give him, you killed him’
    I thought he was responsible in some way Rowe testified
    Rowe: I didn’t know what Propofol was. I still didn’t know. I think it was at a deposition I was told it was the same thing (as diprivan)
    Putnam: Other than Germany, was there any other time MJ used Diprivan to sleep?
    Rowe: Not that I was aware of, no.
    Putnam concluded direct examination.

    Deborah Chang, attorneys for the Jacksons, did cross examination at 3:55 pm PT.
    Chang asked how Rowe was. “I have a headache to die for, I’m tired,” Rowe said.
    At the day of the deposition, plaintiffs didn’t show up. Rowe said AEG attorneys told her they didn’t want to come.
    Rowe hung up on Mrs. Jackson’s assistant when asked to talk to KJ’s attorney because she said she didn’t want to testify on anyone’s behalf.
    She’s here now because of defendant’s subpoena, would not come to testify voluntarily.
    Rowe is not the legal guardian of either Prince and Paris Jackson. Mrs. Jackson and TJ Jackson are, she said.
    Chang asked if prior to this year is it true she spent little time with Prince and Paris. Rowe said that was true.
    Rowe said she reestablished seeing daughter Paris this year. She never spoke to the kids about this lawsuit.
    It was not like we ever hated each other, Rowe said about MJ.
    Chang: Do you agree you were close friends for 20 years?
    Rowe: Yes, longer.
    Chang: But communication got complicated because of divorce lawyers?
    Rowe: There were divorce lawyers/personal assistants that were annoying
    Rowe said at Klein’s office they did studies of collagen and Botox. She knew Dr. Klein well.
    Chang: Despite what you think of him now, was Dr. Klein considered a respected dermatologist?
    Rowe: He was, he was brilliant.
    First time MJ went to Dr. Klein he was still in his 20s, and acne caused embarrassment, Rowe said.
    MJ had discoid lupus, which is a disease in the skin, Rowe said. Discoid lupus is not systemic lupus, which is all over the body.
    His scarring was from the burn in the Pepsi commercial, Rowe said. MJ also had vitiligo, which causes discoloration of the skin.
    Chang wants to show a picture of a black male’s hand with vitiligo. Defendants objected, Chang asked for sidebar.
    Judge broke session until today at 9:30 am PT. Rowe is ordered back. We hope to see you here for full coverage.

    Here’s our story on @ABC7:

    Michael Jackson trial: Debbie Rowe cries during testimony
    Wednesday, August 14, 2013

      By Miriam Hernandez and Christina Salvo
    LOS ANGELES (KABC) — Michael Jackson’s ex-wife Debbie Rowe took the stand Wednesday in the pop icon’s wrongful death trial, crying as she described Jackson’s fear of pain.

    It took a subpoena to bring Rowe, mother to Prince and Paris Jackson, to court to testify for the defense. Prosecutors questioned Rowe about Jackson’s drug use when they were a couple. AEG attorneys want to show that Jackson had drug problems as far back as the early 1990s.

    Rowe was a nurse assistant to dermatologist Arnold Klein, who she said provided the painkiller Demerol and Propofol for many of the hundreds of treatments Jackson received over 20 years.

    According to records in evidence, Klein was treating Jackson up until three days before his death.

    Rowe broke down on the witness stand, describing Jackson as a victim of doctors competing over a celebrity patient.

    “Michael respected doctors immensely,” she testified. “Unfortunately, some of the doctors decided that when Michael was in pain, that they would try to outdo each other, who could give the better drug.”

    Rowe identified the doctors as Klein and plastic surgeon Steven Hoefflin.

    “These idiots were going back and forth the whole time and not caring about him,” Rowe said.

    Rowe testified that Jackson had trouble sleeping, but always seemed to be able to sleep after a doctor’s appointment. She said his use of pain meds started with his accident in 1984, when his scalp burned filming a Pepsi commercial.

    In 1993, she described a painful surgery to stretch his scalp and remove scar tissue. Even though the surgery happened three years before Jackson wed Rowe, she was present during the surgery. She said Jackson asked her to be present to make sure everything was OK.

    “Michael had a very low pain tolerance,” Rowe said as she began to cry. “His fear of pain was incredible.”

    Klein and Hoefflin, she said, were providing powerful drugs — to the point she consulted with Jackson’s internist. She testified that Dr. Allan Metzger designed a plan to wean Jackson off the meds.

    She told the jury that another doctor foiled the effort as Jackson left on the Dangerous World Tour, and that he rejected Metzger’s directions. Later that year, Jackson announced he was cutting his Dangerous World Tour short to enter rehab.

    “My friends and doctors advised me to seek professional guidance immediately in order to eliminate what has become an addiction. It is time for me to acknowledge my need for treatment in order to regain my health,” Jackson said in a recorded statement at the time.

    Rowe returns to the witness stand on Thursday.


  45. August 15, 2013 3:30 pm

    Debbie is no sycophant,nor does she bear ill will re MJ.Who else was there to put their foot down.


  46. August 15, 2013 3:55 pm

    You make it sound like he was going in all the time, but he wasn’t, Rowe said crying. “You’re talking about a 12 year period.”
    It was a fight to get him there because he had such fear the pain that would happen if we didn’t catch it, Rowe recalled. – Debbie Rowe

    Thank you Helena. As usual, the media is completely dirtying up her testimony to make it seem as if she is painting Michael to be a drug addict. I also found it interesting what she stated about the scarring tissue on Michael’s nose. Apparently he had to get the surgeries due to his lupus, something the fan community has already confirmed. The media is also making it seem as if more drugs were required because he simply had a low tolerance to pain. Not the fact the high levels of pain he experienced were intolerable.

    Also, I am confused about one thing regarding the plaintiffs’ case. They called an addiction specialist to testify and it was my understanding that they were trying to contradict AEG by showing that Michael was not an addict. At first it seemed to me that both sides were trying to say he had addiction, but that’s not the case is it?


  47. August 15, 2013 5:59 pm

    Helena, I think you’re right with Ortega’s role in pressuring Michael. I already had the impression a few weeks ago after his first testimony. There must have been something like an ultimatum, it makes absolutely sense. And I also believe that most people, above all the jury, don’t get that. I wonder if Panish is aware of it. He probably is, but how can he bring it to the jury and the public if the content of Karen’s text message is not allowed in?

    Re Debbie’s testimony, I almost can’t take any longer how much Michael suffered. It becomes clearer with every word she says what was done to him, but on the other hand it’s also great that many of these health issues are once and for all clarified for the public – scalp burn, vitiligo, discoid lupus, tissue scaring etc. A few years ago I never imagined others than the fans would learn about it in a way it can’t be denied anymore – through a trial with witnesses and everything on record including medical documentation.

    @TatumMarie: I think at least the plaintiffs wish to make clear that that there is a difference between addiction and dependency and that there is no proof for an addiction, but just for a dependency. Also they want to point out that this dependency was limited to certain time periods, whereas the defense wants to present Michael as a longtime permanent addict. This seems to be the difference for me between plaintiffs and defense.


  48. Jolie permalink
    August 15, 2013 9:18 pm

    Vindicating Michael…


  49. Jolie permalink
    August 15, 2013 10:16 pm

    Karen Faye tweeted today: “I cannot imagine a life filled with so physical and emotional pain, yet giving so much joy to others. Love and caring for others was his escape. That is Divine.”

    YouTube Video – History Tour Munich “You Are Not Alone”


  50. alice permalink
    August 16, 2013 12:56 am

    Just a point on the ongoing debate in court between how much Michael could have earnt purely in ticket sales and how much of a venue factors into the sale; If Meglen and Gongaware have such supposed difficulty trusting Billboards figures for ticket sales maybe they should ask their friend Randy.

    In an interview in 2007 he said the following, after AEG went into partnership with Billboard itself:

    “Remember something — Billboard’s not just a print product, it’s a brand. The Billboard newsletter, which is digitally distributed every day, is probably the quickest access to information on a day-in, day-out basis… I look at Billboard as a brand that has meaning both to industry and the consumer. It’s very rare to find that. And from a credibility standpoint their charts are really the standard of the industry.”

    Ohhhhhhhh but no, Billboard are just big fibbing liars, Randy, didn’t you know? Their figures are always inflated and factually incorrect. How do I know, you ask, Randy? oh, well. Your mates Paul and John said so. Yes, yes, that was part of an argument in court they made so that meant they could dispute how many tickets Michael could sell. What of it, Randy? What? oh. You say you stated exactly the opposite in a past public statement, endorsing Billboards credibility? And this was the basis upon which you and your friends decided to join with Billboard in the first place? Wow, how awkward for you now that your friends are saying something different. I am sure it is just a misunderstanding, Randy, though. Surely you cannot be suggesting your friends are liars. You say someone should ask your friends, Randy, why they are highlighting that the entertainment news source their company partnered with must be telling fibs? Oh I am sure they just didn’t know that Billboard were big silly fibbers when they partnered with them. I am sureit was just a big surprise for them to find this out. Ou know, just like all the other things that surprise you guys. Like the worldwide knowledge and public statements of relevant artists that form the core of your own industry. yeah, things like that. I am sure it was just another surprise they and you did not know about. Oh except you say they did? And you acrually stated it on public record? I see. Well you know what Randy? Maybe they just can’t recall that now. You kow, like absolutely anything else that could possibly have any relevance or influence on their verdict during this trial which has no impact on their own credibility. Mmm. Yes. An honest case of the Forgetties. That is what you all had. But, um. You might just want to check Billboard are still happy to be partnered with you guys, that’s all. You know, double checking to make sure things are okay with everyone involved? So shit does not hit the proverbail fan? What? Yeah double checking. Oh, that sort of thing isn’t company policy, you say? I see. Well then. Maybe you just need to forget I ever told you any of this. Do you think you can do that? Yes? Yes, so that sort of thing is company policy is it? Forgetting things that could get you into trouble? Good. I think you should be just fine, then. Splendid.

    And this from online entertainment blogger Wayne Rosso: “I’ve know Brandon K (Randy) Phillips, president of AEG Live, for 30 years, when he was a piss ant manager representing the likes of Meadowlark Lemon. In 1992 The New York Daily News reported that Randy, when he was co-managing Rod Stewart (at the time Rod was a huge concert draw) had been skimming concert tickets from Rod’s shows and selling them to ticket brokers and pocketing the cash. Well, its been reported that about 25% of the fans who bought tickets to the O2 shows in London are keeping their tickets as keepsakes instead of getting refunds. Go figure.”

    I don’t think this one even warrants me to go into a hypothetical sarcastic monologue.


  51. alice permalink
    August 16, 2013 1:08 am

    Randy is really turning forgetfulness into an art form. Quoting him from an article back in 2009 just after Michael’s passing:

    “The doctor who reportedly was at Michael Jackson’s home when the pop star went into cardiac arrest had been hired by the concert promoter working on Jackson’s upcoming comeback shows in London, the promoter told the Associated Press.
    Dr. Conrad Robert Murray has been interviewed by police, but authorities have said he isn’t under criminal suspicion at this time. He is a cardiologist with offices in Texas, Nevada and California.
    Jackson had been preparing to kick off this summer a series of 50 concerts staged by AEG Live, and the singer wanted Murray to accompany him to London, the company’s president and CEO, Randy Phillips told the Associated Press.
    AEG Live advanced Jackson the money to hire Phillips, logging it as production costs, Phillips said.”

    Ha. I bet he will forget doing that interview too. It’s a wonder he remembers his own socks.

    link here:



  52. alice permalink
    August 16, 2013 1:10 am

    Pps I should probably start differentiating between Randy Jackson and Randy Phillips. I will call Randy J as Randy and Randy P as Phillips from now on.


  53. alice permalink
    August 16, 2013 1:40 am

    From an interview in July 2007 with abc news:

    “While the team insists that they saw no sign that Jackson was using drugs, Phillips said worries mounted that Jackson did not have the energy to endure. His weight showed signs of wear and tear.

    “Kenny [Ortega] used to cut his chicken breast for him and feed him,” Phillips said. “I actually, in the last week, brought in someone whose sole purpose it was to remind him to eat. That was my biggest concern, was his weight.”

    Jackson told Ortega he had issues with insomnia.

    “He would say to me, ‘I didn’t sleep much last night,'” Ortega said. “If he got inspired, then he would work on a song, work on a lyric. He would go downstairs and work in his room and work on a dance step or call me on the phone at 3 o’clock.”

    Yeah, you had no idea he was sick or losing weight. Sure.



  54. August 16, 2013 1:43 am

    Michael did well in asking Debbie to the mother to the 2 first children.She got some damage from the delivery of Paris (among others it was a face presentation).She was very ( and I may say appropriately) emotinal during testimony.
    ps I have a lot of personal problems at present and will follow the blog ,but perhaps not make too many or long comments.
    So many witnesses had a variety of memory problems, Randy J. and the AEG officials.
    K.O.´s role comes through as more malevolent now.Maybe while away he has been thinking of the future for his own career.
    Please recall the testimony of Dr. Czeltric.


  55. August 16, 2013 1:47 am

    And,yes Helena,this trial will require much and a lot of good memory from the jury.


  56. August 16, 2013 5:46 pm

    When medicine is driven by entrepeneurism & growing corporazation it becomes a commodidity and only self-interst & and working of the marketplace are motives.for professional activity.In a free-market economy,effacement of self-interest or any conduct shaped primarily by the idea of altruism or virtue is simply inconsistent with survival.Professionalism is the basis for the contract with society..Competence is more than technicality.Ethical practice and professionalism are closely related & incorporate the realationship with the patient and family & society.
    Unprofessional behaviour must have consequences.One of the core tenets for professionalism is being consistently respectful towards the patient and his/her family.This need not be inconsistent with medicine being a science, an art and a business.Never only the latter. And above statements brings it into a direct contradiction with the interests and tenets of AEG.
    And Murray can not write his a book and also remain a physician.


  57. Truth Prevail permalink
    August 17, 2013 5:10 pm

    When Randy Jackson is talking about MJ in hospital because he did not want to go to court is he talking about Pajama day?


  58. Truth Prevail permalink
    August 17, 2013 5:10 pm

    Why is Randy Jackson a witness for AEG?


  59. alice permalink
    August 17, 2013 8:11 pm

    Hey Truth!

    RE: Randy being on the AEG witness list (instead of the Jackson side, you imply?).

    I was confused by this initially too but if you read through their whole list, there’s actually quite a few on there who are probably only on there for the sake of being on A witness list.
    From my interpretation, the boundaries on who is on whose witness list are actually pretty flexible. Katherine, Prince and Paris are on both lists, for example. How I understand it, it’s not like AEG or the Jacksons have actually spoken to all the people on their respective lists to get their approval on testifying. They are just possible people to be called, and then they can either decline or accept. If they decline and the attorney argues to the judge enough that their testimony will be relevant, the court can serve a subpoena.
    Like, Debbie was on AEG’s list but she did not want to come in and testify. She would not speak to anyone’s attorney. I doubt she would have been spoken to about being approved to go on a list in the beginning, and even if she was, I’m certain she would have said no. But what people on a witness list say does not seem to matter, if the attorney and court both believe their testimony to be relevant. I mean, it took a subpoena, served by AEG and the court, to get Debbie in there. And a lot of stuff she said didn’t help their case.
    LaToya is also on AEG’s list, but considering how much she has spoken out against a conspiracy towards Michael’s death earlier on I’m sure she’s not suddenly going to wage a massive vendetta against her own mother by lying for AEG or anything of the like.
    And remember, the respective side always has a chance to cross-examine the witness. It’s like as we saw with Debbie and her cross done by the Jackson attorney Ms Chang; cross-examining does not always mean discrediting the witness to make their initial testimony seem like rubbish. A witness can help both sides. And they (Jackson attorneys) knew that what she would have to say (after hearing her examination by AEG) could help their side too. So it can go both ways, irrespective of which list you are on.
    It also doesn’t make much sense doubling too many people up; why have 500 people on both witness lists when you can split them up and have 250 on each?
    Another point is that people like Prince and Spike Lee are on the Jackson list, too.
    But I speculate it will probably require a subpoena to get them there if the Jackson attorneys suddenly want to call them in. Prince especially. Regardless of what he would have to offer for the truth, I’m unsure he would even agree to testify due to how much media attention it would get and whether what he has to say could damage his career through his work with AEG. But then the judge can always serve a subpoena if she thinks what he has to say is relevant enough.
    Prince being called or served probably won’t happen anyway, though, as the Jackson attorneys have now rested their case – at least until AEG rest theirs and Jackson can go forth with a rebuttal. They can call more witnesses then, of course. So who knows, we may see Prince! Or Spike. Or whoever other famous people are on the Jackson list.
    I for one hope this is about the time when emails from Frank Dileo’s computer can be brought in as evidence.
    Put simply, I don’t think what a person agrees to or whose ‘side’ they are on factors much into whose witness list you officially appear on.
    Hope this answers your question 🙂 It was how I went about discerning some answers or reasoning behind the same question I originally had myself.
    If anyone knows more about trial particulars regarding wtiness lists than I do (not hard to beat, to be honest, haha) then please let us know.


  60. Mariam permalink
    August 18, 2013 4:08 pm

    Do you think we will get something from Frank Dileo’s computer, because I read somewhere AEG lawyers had it before and I think they destroyed all important info.
    What is this “reset” thing, is this helping or hearting? Why the judge forcing KJ lawyer to do this? I think that is what I read if I am not mistaken
    Do you think Debbie’s testimony helps? If so, in what way? Because it bothers me the whole week because some news reporters said she helped AEG than KJ. For me knowing what was going in his life is, makes me cry and also makes me proud of him, because shows me how strong person & fighter he was. I think it is also good all worlds know what was happened in his life, because it will answer a lot of questions. Also appreciate her being there & holding his hand in his difficult time of his life and for giving him what he love most his children. Thinking of how happy he was with his kids makes me feel better, out of all his life, I found 2 things that I think made him happy -his children and his music.


  61. alice permalink
    August 18, 2013 8:06 pm

    Hey Mariam 🙂

    Helena will do a much better job answering your questions than I probably can, but I will offer my two cents just in case she is busy.

    “Do you think we will get something from Frank Dileo’s computer, because I read somewhere AEG lawyers had it before and I think they destroyed all important info.”

    I was of the understanding that the Jackson lawyers were to be given all relevant info from Frank’s computer from the independent computer technician, as I think they were the ones who managed to override AEG’s efforts to smother it (Putnam trying to ‘represent’ Frank’s wife legally without her knowledge) in the first place. I believe they requested it through the courts and once Frank’s wife got a new lawyer and declared Putnam had never been hired by her, the process was allowed to continue and the computer was handed over to the computer technician for retrieval of information he/she deemed relevant to the case.

    I do find it weird that we still have not heard anything about any information being found on there, considering these changes happened a while ago now, but I expect there is either so much on there to go through that it is taking Panish and his team some time to filter what will help them, and if there is anything of relevance then he still has the opportunity to introduce it during his rebuttal. There may also be conflict from AEG’s side as to whether it can be brought ‘into evidence’ at this stage of the trial but that will only be if they know it can harm their case. And it will be up to the judge to decide on its relevance. She reviews all evidence given by the attorneys to assess whether it will be submitted.

    Also, even if AEG did get hold of the computer while they were ‘representing’ Frank’s wife, the independent technician claims he can still retrieve all material even if it has been deleted. The only way, really, that the info could be destroyed is if the laptop itself was destroyed. And this is not the case – that we know of. I do hope we see something soon, though.

    “What is this “reset” thing, is this helping or hearting? Why the judge forcing KJ lawyer to do this? I think that is what I read if I am not mistaken”

    I think here you might mean ‘rest’ instead of ‘reset’? As in ‘resting’ their case? When an attorney team rests their case, it means they are finished presenting their side of the trial through directly calling witnesses and direct examination. After they have done this, then they pass over the opportunity for the opposite side for them to present their case in the same manner. Both sides can cross-examine each other’s witnesses during both presentations. It’s just a formality of who has the power to call who to the stand. I did see on TeamMJ’s twitter that, in their view, the judge was forcing the Jackson attorneys to rest their case & were implying that she was doing so before they were, in fact, ready to do so. TeamMJ were very vocal about it. But upon reading the transcripts, I don’t think the matter is a big issue or happened like this at all – for the judge it was simply a formality.

    In this situation, the Jackson attorneys had technically already ‘rested’ their case and the judge was merely asking them to clarify that in spoken words to the jury to make it clear. We know Jackson attorneys had rested their case because now AEG were presenting their case and calling their own witnesses. The jury could see that. But from my view, the judge was just asking the Jackson attorneys to clarify it for the record and for the jury. The judge just felt that this switch had not been made overtly clear to the jury and also needed it to be present in the court record. There was no dispute from the Jackson attorneys on this request from the judge, because they had already chosen to rest their case previously. Panish acknowledged the need to do it officially – and promptly did so afterwards. No fuss. So, in my view, the judge was not forcing the Jackson attorneys to rest their case before they were ready. If she was, the AEG attorneys would not have already started calling their own witnesses. And I’m sure Panish would have kicked up quite a fuss if so.

    From this, I also feel there is also need to clarify here that, in this situation, ‘resting’ from the Jackson side of things does not mean they have no opportunity to offer more evidence or testimony to support their case. Because after AEG have rested their case (which they are in the process of presenting now), the Jackson attorneys will still have allocated time for a rebuttal afterwards. This is when they can call more witnesses or bring more back to the stand to effectively ‘reinforce’ or add more to their case. Plus they are always being given the opportunity to cross-examine every witness AEG call to the stand during their presentation anyway, which is also their way of helping their case. In my opinion, there is no issue here with what the judge asked. And Panish did not seem to think so either.

    “Do you think Debbie’s testimony helps? If so, in what way? Because it bothers me the whole week because some news reporters said she helped AEG than KJ. For me knowing what was going in his life is, makes me cry and also makes me proud of him, because shows me how strong person & fighter he was. I think it is also good all worlds know what was happened in his life, because it will answer a lot of questions. Also appreciate her being there & holding his hand in his difficult time of his life and for giving him what he love most his children. Thinking of how happy he was with his kids makes me feel better, out of all his life, I found 2 things that I think made him happy -his children and his music.”

    Yes, I absolutely agree that we are fortunate to have someone as passionate as Debbie speaking out on the record about the things Michael loved and what made him such an incredible person because of it. Like you, I also found her testimony incredibly moving. And that emotion is important to a trial outcome, sometimes. Just as much as facts.

    As to the issue of who her testimony helps, I believe it is difficult to say. The media are obviously going to side with AEG’s argument that it shows how much ‘drug use’ was going on in Michael’s life because it suits their needs to sensationalise everything they produce. The public feed off sensationalism.

    Like I said, it’s very very difficult to say whose side her testimony has ‘helped’ because it all depends on what way each side chooses to frame it – and how the jury interpret or misinterpret that framing. Personally, I think Debbie’s testimony helps reinforce the Jackson side. But I am also painfully aware that the jury do not have the same luxury that I do of attentively reading Helena’s posts, going back over the transcripts of every witness testimony with a fine-toothed comb thanks to TeamMJ posting them, realising that very little presented in the media is the truth, or having the time and inclination to spend hours trawling the internet/youtube/twitter/etc to corroborate or highlight facts and inaccuracies.

    We’ve got to consider that they have spent every single day of the last few months (bar weekends) inside the court room listening to hours of testimony and attorneys arguing. They have been instructed by the court not to look up things to do with the case or watch tv during their personal time – which of course many will do. The court can’t control that, merely instruct. So the media noise would undoubtedly be affecting them, or at least some of them, which is exactly AEG’s plan and why they are keen to put across to the media that she has helped their case. Because it’s their hope the jurors will see that and be affected by it. Judging by some of the summaries TeamMJ gave us of the 18 or so prospective jurors is encouraging to me, though. I feel there is slightly more of a balance towards those that are sympathetic and/or fans of Michael than there are those who hate him or are indifferent to him. One man said he does not believe the media and thinks the molestation trial and coverage was ‘like a lynch mob’. So there is hope. But it is an uphill battle. AEG also managed to get a few jurors in that scare me with their views on Michael.

    Yet, above all, Debbie’s testimony – probably one of the most truthful we have seen thus far – is the kind of testimony, I feel, that will require both sides to argue very effectively to make it to their advantage and convince the jury of this.


  62. Mariam permalink
    August 18, 2013 10:39 pm

    Thank you alice.
    Thank you for your clarification and taking time to answer my question.
    I am glad the info is still available from FD computer and I am hoping KJ lawyers will find valuable info that could help their case, I have a feeling they will find some e-mail exchange between AEG & FD behind MJ so that will help.
    I am praying if God once again be MJ side and the people who heart him get punished


  63. August 19, 2013 7:13 am

    “Why is Randy Jackson a witness for AEG?” – Truth Prevail

    Truth, Alice has given a pretty comprehensive reply but I need to add that witnesses can be subpoenaed and if they are there is no chance to refuse. The reason AEG wants Randy Jackson is because they think his testimony may damage MJ. And they need LaToya for the same reason – to make her repeat all ugly things she used to say about MJ and compromise her views in general by her own earlier statements made to the press.

    The reason why both sides have one and the same witness on their list may be connected with the scope and area they can probe. I don’t know whether it is true for civil cases but criminal cases have a strict rule – if it’s a witness for the prosecution the defense can examine him only within the scope of questions asked by the prosecution (and evidently vice versa?).

    I remember it clearly from the example of Dr. Katz who was testifying for the prosecution in 2005. Sneddon didn’t ask him questions about the McMartin school false molestation case where Katz was a trainer for the interviewers of children, and as a result all those children accused their pre-school teachers of unspeakable things, but since Sneddon didn’t ask Katz about it Thomas Mesereau couldn’t ask either.

    So the jury never heard that Katz was the one who was directly responsible for dozens of children making false allegations against their teachers! Now we know that the case was fictional as the children (now grown-ups) say it themselves, but the jury had no idea that Dr. Katz had put his hand to it. And Thomas Mesereau could not say it himself without Sneddon first opening the discussion.

    These limitations in questioning may be also the reason why AEG is summoning all those witnesses once again. The first time they told their dramatic story, but the second time the AEG lawyers are smoothing a lot of things so that the jury forget the first testimony and remember only the smooth version presented by AEG. See Kenny Ortega’s testimony as the example of it.


  64. August 19, 2013 7:32 am

    “Do you think Debbie’s testimony helps? If so, in what way? Because it bothers me the whole week because some news reporters said she helped AEG than KJ. For me knowing what was going in his life is, makes me cry and also makes me proud of him, because shows me how strong person & fighter he was. I think it is also good all worlds know what was happened in his life, because it will answer a lot of questions.” – Mariam

    Mariam, you’ve answered your question yourself – in any case it helps Michael because it helps the general public to understand him at last and see how unfair they were to him. So many crazy things were said about him that he went into his grave slandered all over which is a complete shame.

    Some people’s legacy can be hurt by the truth, but not Michael’s – the truth about him can only clean him of all that dirt. Michael was a shining example in every way, so telling the truth about him is a cleansing and healing process. And I think that we can even forget about the AEG case in this respect – AEG is not forever while Michael is.


  65. Mariam permalink
    August 19, 2013 9:16 pm

    Thank you Helena & alice and all MJ’s fans for being his voice, for being his defense. I really proud of you guys. MJ trusted you and he was right.

    Thank you again


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