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Jacksons vs AEG trial. MARVIN PUTNAM’S CLOSING ARGUMENTS

September 25, 2013
Marvin Putnam is a very lively thing

Marvin Putnam: “We are responsible for the choices we make”  (with the exception of AEG, of course)

Before the AEG’s lawyers closing arguments start soon here is an article by Alan Duke on this being the last chance for AEG:

AEG Live to get its last chance to argue in Michael Jackson wrongful death trial

By Alan Duke, CNN

September 25, 2013 — Updated 1549 GMT (2349 HKT)

Los Angeles (CNN) — Michael Jackson’s last concert promoter has four hours Wednesday to convince a jury that it is not responsible for the pop icon’s death.

AEG Live attorney Marvin Putnam warned in his opening statements in the Jackson wrongful death trial five months ago that he would show “ugly stuff” and reveal Jackson’s “deepest, darkest secret.”

The revelations that jurors heard from 58 witnesses over 83 days of testimony over 21 weeks included details of Jackson’s drug use and his shopping for a doctor to give him the surgical anesthetic propofol that he thought would give him sleep.

Brian Panish, the lead lawyer for Jackson’s mother and three children, conceded in his closing Tuesday that the singer may have some fault for his own death, but said “it’s about shared responsibility.”

Jackson did use prescription painkillers and was warned that using propofol at home to sleep was risky, “but he never had a problem until Dr. Conrad Murray was working and until Conrad Murray negotiated with AEG Live,” Panish argued.

He urged jurors to award the family between $1 billion and $2 billion in damages for its share of liability in Jackson’s death — to replace what he would have earned touring, had he lived, and for the personal suffering from the loss of a son and father.

Katherine Jackson testified that she filed the wrongful death lawsuit three years ago against AEG Live “because I want to know what really happened to my son.”

Her lawyers argue that the company is liable in the death because it negligently hired, retained or supervised Murray, who was convicted of involuntary manslaughter in Jackson’s propofol overdose death.

After AEG Live’s Putnam delivers his closing arguments Wednesday, Jackson’s lawyer will have another two hours Thursday morning to sum up his arguments in rebuttal.

Twelve jurors, who have sat and listened in a Los Angeles courtroom for 21 weeks, will then begin deliberations.

The judge is allowing a television camera in court for the closing arguments and verdict.

AEG Live’s defense

Murray treated Michael Jackson and his children for minor illnesses while they lived in Las Vegas for three years, before the singer returned to Los Angeles to prepare for his “This Is It” comeback tour. It was Jackson — not AEG Live executives — who chose Murray to be his full-time doctor for his tour, the company’s lawyers contend.

AEG Live Co-CEO Paul Gongaware negotiated to pay Murray $150,000 a month only because of Jackson’s request to have his doctor with him as he performed 50 shows at London’s O2 Arena, they argue.

There was no need to check Murray’s background because he was a licensed, successful doctor who was known to Jackson, they said.

A key argument in the Jackson case is that AEG Live was negligent by not ordering a financial background check of Murray, which would have revealed he was in a dire financial situation and not successful. His desperation to keep his lucrative job led Murray to violate his Hippocratic Oath to do no harm by using the dangerous propofol infusions to put Jackson to sleep each night for two months, Jackson lawyers argue.

AEG Live executives had no way of knowing Murray was treating Jackson’s insomnia with propofol in the privacy of his bedroom, their lawyers contend. Jackson was a secretive addict, adept at keeping family, friends and other doctors in the dark about his medical treatments, they argue.

But two doctors testified that they told Gongaware about Jackson’s abuse of painkillers and his insomnia during tours in the 1990s, when the AEG Live executive served as tour manager. Jackson lawyers argue Gongaware, who was the top producer on the new tour, should have known that Jackson could suffer the same problems in 2009.

AEG Live can avoid a negative verdict if they are able to convince at least four of the 12 jurors that they did not hire Murray. It is the first of 16 questions on the jury verdict form. If jurors answer it with a “no” — that AEG Live did not hire the doctor — they would end their deliberations and the trial.

An AEG Live lawyer e-mailed an employment contract to Murray on the morning of June 24, 2009. Murray signed it and faxed it back to the company that day. But the signature line for AEG Live’s CEO and Michael Jackson were never signed since Jackson died the next day.

Putnam will point to those blank signature lines as evidence that Murray was never hired by his client. There were negotiations with Murray, but he was never paid, the AEG Live lawyer argues.

Panish, the lead Jackson lawyer, told jurors Tuesday that all the elements of an oral contract — “just as valid as a written contract” — were in place when Jackson died.

Murray had been treating Jackson for two month and the written contract stated that his start day was May 1, 2009. A series of e-mail exchanges involving Murray and AEG Live executives and lawyers supported his argument, Panish said.

Blame and damages

If the jury concludes AEG Live has liability, it would have to decide how much the company should pay in economic and personal damages to Jackson’s mother and children. They can use estimates of Jackson’s “lost earnings capacity” — the amount of money he could reasonably be expected to have earned if he had lived — to guide them.

AEG Live expert Eric Briggs testified it was “speculative” that Jackson would have even completed another tour because of his drug use, damaged reputation and history of failed projects. He suggested the star may never have earned another dime.

Putnam’s closing argument about damages must overcome the impression left on jurors Tuesday when Panish played a video montage of Jackson performances.

“That is, I think, the best evidence of if Michael Jackson could have sold tickets — not what Mr. Briggs would tell you,” Panish told jurors.

Panish suggested jurors pick a number between $900 million and $1.6 billion for economic damages. They should add on another $290 million for non-economic damages — or personal damages, he said.

The last question on the verdict form asks jurors to assign a percentage that they believe represents Michael Jackson’s share of blame in his death. The total damages owed by AEG Live would be reduced by that percentage.

Marvin Putnam, when he concludes Wednesday, could be expected to argue Michael Jackson is 100% to blame.

Panish will have another two hours to rebut Putnam’s arguments before jury deliberations begin Thursday.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/25/showbiz/michael-jackson-death-trial/?hpt=en_c1

Well, whatever AEG has to say it turns out that they were terribly unwilling to have the closing arguments heard at a bigger venue with more journalists and public present, and have the final days of the trial televised.

The proof of is a brief filed by AEG on September 18, 2013 saying that :

  • in prohibiting cameras in the courtroom during trial, this Court rightly acknowledged that heightened media presence, including cameras in the courtroom, could have a serious detrimental effect on the parties’ ability to receive a fair trial…

http://amradaronline.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/jacksonhearingdocsb.pdf

  • defendants respectfully request that the Court permit the proceedings to remain in Department 28 for the duration of trial…

brief not to televise

The above makes it clear that from the very start of the trial it was the AEG side that was interested in minimizing the public and media attendance of the trial and people never seeing with their own eyes what’s going on in the courtroom.

*   *  *

ABC is live streaming Marvin Putnam’s theatrical performance: http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/livenow?id=9259817

Here it is on CNNhttp://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/cvplive/cvpstream2.html

HLN is live-blogging again under the nasty title of “MJ’s dirty secrets come out in trial”:

Live blog: MJ’s dirty secrets come out in trial

By Graham Winch and Amanda Sloane
updated 5:01 PM EDT, Wed September 25, 2013

HLN is live-blogging the closing arguments in the Michael Jackson wrongful death trial. Minute-by-minute updates can be found under this story.

LIE: "Mr. Jackson a whole team of advisors!'

LIE: “Mr. Jackson had a whole team of advisors” TRUTH: Randy Phillips said MJ didn’t have a manager, didn’t have a lawyer, didn’t have anyone to talk to. “It was a nightmare” according to Phillips

Attorneys for AEG Live aired Michael Jackson’s dirty laundry in court Wednesday, claiming that the superstar’s years-long drug addiction is what ultimately killed him.

“Mr. Jackson spent decades shopping for doctors to give him the painkillers he wanted,” said AEG Live attorney Marvin Putnam during his closing argument. “He manipulated and he lied to those doctors so he could get double doses.”

As closing arguments stretched into their second day, AEG attorneys got their final chance to tell jurors why they shouldn’t have to hand over more than $1 billion to Jackson’s family.

The pop icon’s mother and three children say the concert promoter is responsible for negligently hiring, retaining or supervising Dr. Conrad Murray, the man found guilty in 2011 of involuntary manslaughter in Jackson’s death.

 LIE: "Kathy Jorrie checked Dr. Murray" [she googled him for 10 min on the Internet]


LIE: “Kathy Jorrie checked out Dr. Murray” TRUTH: She googled him for 10 min on the Internet

But AEG Live says it was Jackson who insisted on having Murray on his “This Is It Tour” and that he was solely responsible for paying the doctor, who admitted to giving Jackson the drug propofol for 60 days straight to treat his insomnia.
The pop star died on June 25, 2009, from a fatal overdose of the surgical anesthetic.“He had his children – Prince and Paris – give Dr. Murray stacks of hundred dollar bills,” said Putnam, who described how the stacks were secured with rubber bands.

Putnam said that this lawsuit has made it possible for AEG Live to get access to “Jackson’s most personal, most private material,” including financial records that show he was almost half a billion dollars in debt and that the house of his mother, Katherine, was almost in foreclosure.Putnam said all of the responsibility for Jackson’s death rests with him.

"Mr. Phillips just made a mistake in his testimony"

LIE: “Mr. Phillips just made a mistake in his testimony”. TRUTH: Mr.Phillips was impeached more than 40 times which means that, he was caught telling different stories at his deposition and on the stand

“The truth here is a tragedy, make no mistake about that… it’s incredibly sad. But it’s not a tragedy of AEG Live’s making. You can’t point the finger at them and you shouldn’t,” Putnam said.

“Mr. Jackson chose this doctor, years before. And Mr. Jackson chose the drug that killed him. Mr. Jackson, like every adult, is responsible for his own choices.”

On Tuesday, Jackson family attorney Brian Panish asked jurors to award the Jackson family a sum between $1 billion and $2 billion to account for the money he would have made touring had he not died, and also to account for the personal suffering from the loss of a son and father.

LIE: "June 19th was an anomaly" [TRUTH:  the AEG own staff said they saw MJ deteriorating for 8 weeks]

LIE: “June 19th was an anomaly” . TRUTH: AEG’s own staff said that MJ’s health was deteriorating for 8 weeks in front of everyone;s eyes (NOTE: These are only samples of AEG lies. Their list can be continued forever)

Jackson was scheduled to perform a record-setting 50 concerts in the same venue — the O2 Arena in London.
AEG Live’s lawyers say they never hired Murray and Jackson’s secrecy about his drug use made it impossible for executives to know that Murray posed a danger to the singer as he prepared for his comeback tour.
Jackson was scheduled to perform a record-setting 50 concerts in the same venue — the O2 Arena in London.
HLN is live-blogging closing arguments. Read below for minute-by-minute updates from the trial (best read from the bottom up):

6:57 p.m. ET: Mr. “Jackson was taking propofol long before Dr. Murray,” said Putnam.

6:53 p.m. ET: AEG Live never paid Murray according to Putnam. It seems like Putnam is wrapping up his closing argument.

6:50 p.m. ET: Putnam is explaining to the jurors that if they find Jackson himself was negligent and was a substantial factor in his own death then AEG Live is not liable.

6:40 p.m. ET: Putnam said the amount of damages the Jackson family is asking for is “ridiculous.”

6:37 p.m. ET: “Mr. Jackson was bound and determined to get propofol,” said Putnam. “Adults are responsible for their own choices.”

6:33 p.m. ET: Putnam said Jackson asked another doctor to administer propofol to him in April 2009 just a few months before he died.

6:28 p.m. ET: “Adults are responsible for their own choices,” said Putnam for the second time.

6:26 p.m. ET: “Jackson cut uncooperative doctors out his life permanently,” said Putnam.

6:21 p.m. ET: Putnam said multiple doctors refused to give Jackson propofol, because it was such a dangerous drug.

6:18 p.m. ET: Debbie Rowe told Jackson propofol was dangerous, but he did it anyway according to Putnam.

6:16 p.m. ET: “Adults are responsible for the mistakes they make,” said Putnam.

6:13 p.m. ET: Putnam is detailing Jackson’s history with propofol. Jackson told multiple people that he used it multiple times from different doctors.

6:10 p.m. ET: Putnam has resumed his closing argument for AEG Live.

5:47 p.m. ET: Putnam is playing a video of Jackson singing and dancing 12 hours before he died. Court has now recessed for a 15 minute break.

5:40 p.m. ET: Putnam played another video of Jackson singing two days before his death.

5:37 p.m. ET: The video shows Jackson dancing all over the stage two days before his death.

5:32 p.m. ET: Putnam said Jackson had “incredible” performance in rehearsal just two days before he died. He is now playing a part of “This is It” documentary that shows Jackson’s rehearsal on June 23, 2009. Jackson died June 25, 2009.

5:27 p.m. ET: Representatives with AEG met with Jackson to see if he was okay after he appeared to be sick in June 2009.

“Mr. Jackson a 50 year old man told his business partners that he was fine,” said Putnam.

5:21 p.m. ET: Jackson appeared sick on June 19, but Putnam said nobody knew why he was sick.

5:15 p.m. ET: Putnam just played a video of Jackson rehearsing on June 5 about a week before his death. The video shows that Jackson was healty right up to his death according to Putnam.

5:08 p.m. ET: Putnam showed pictures of Jackson to show that his weight was normal shortly before he died.

5:01 p.m. ET: “AEG Live believed Jackson was perfectly healthy,” said Putnam. “He was healthy. He was ready to perform.”

4:57 p.m. ET: “Nothing in Dr. Murray’s background would suggest he might be dangerous,” said Putnam.

4:54 p.m. ET: Putnam said that AEG was not required to supervise AEG.  They were never supposed to supervise him, because they have no medical knowledge.

4:49 p.m. ET: There was nothing that should have notified AEG Live that Dr. Murray was incompetent according to Putnam.

4:45 p.m. ET: Putnam said AEG Live did not know anything about propofol or should have known about the anesthetic being administered to Jackson and thus should not be held liable.

4:41 p.m. ET: Putnam has resumed his closing argument. He says Jackson’s attorneys didn’t proved that AEG Live knew or should have known that Dr. Murry posed a risk to Jackson.

2:58 p.m. ET: The judge has recessed court for lunch until 4:30 p.m. ET.

2:56 p.m. ET: “Mr. Jackson thought enough of Dr. Murray to let him provide medical treatment to his own children,” said Putnam. AEG didn’t know Murray was treating Jackson with propofol “behind his locked bedroom doors.” If Murray was hired to administer propofol, then he would have been hired by Jackson for this purpose, according to Putnam.

2:55 p.m. ET: As far as AEG Live knew, Murray was a general doctor for Jackson, according to Putnam. If Jackson wanted an anesthesiologist and hired Murray, that would have raised a red flag.

2:50 p.m. ET: Putnam says that, despite this e-mail, AEG Live co-CEO Paul Gongaware never had a conversation with Murray about who was paying him. Gongaware says he doesn’t remember seeing this e-mail or what he meant.

2:42 p.m. ET: Murray and AEG Live agreed there would be no oral agreement, only a signed contract, which never happened, according to Putnam.

2:40 p.m. ET: E-mails sent between Murray and AEG Live prove there was no contract between the two, according to Putnam.

2:37 p.m. ET: Court is back in session and Putnam has resumed his closing argument.

2:14 p.m. ET: The judge has recessed court for 15 minutes.

2:10 p.m. ET: Putnam is showing copies of Murray’s draft agreements.

2:05 p.m. ET: The only reason AEG Live ever spoke to Murray was because Jackson had asked them to advance money to pay the doctor, according to Putnam.

1:58 p.m. ET: AEG was going to loan a broke Jackson money to help pay Murray, according to Putnam. He also says Jackson agreed to be responsible for anyone he brought on the tour with him.

1:54 p.m. ET: Putnam says Jackson always paid Murray — AEG Live didn’t give him any money — and that Jackson would have his kids hand the doctor stacks of hundred dollar bills, wrapped with elastic bands.

1:52 p.m. ET: Jackson introduced Murray as “his doctor” to AEG Live executives, according to Putnam, and he insisted the doctor come on tour and he wouldn’t take no for an answer.

“It was not for AEG Live to interfere with that longtime doctor-patient relationship… Dr. Conrad Murray was Michael Jackson’s choice.”

1:48 p.m. ET: When it comes to who hired Murray, Putnam says there are four options (and all the evidence points to the first): Michal Jackson hired him, AEG Live hired, they both hired him or neither one hired him.

1:47 p.m. ET: Putnam is now addressing question #1 on the jury verdict form: “Did AEG Live hire Dr. Conrad Murray?” He says no because Jackson hired Murray and things “never even got that far” — there wasn’t a contract. “There was never a done deal.”

1:45 p.m. ET: “You can’t save someone, they have to save themselves. And more importantly… the law doesn’t say you have to,” said Putnam.

1:40 p.m. ET: Michael Jackson’s death “would have happened no matter what — with or without AEG Live,” said Putnam.

1:38 p.m. ET: “This case is about Dr. Conrad Murray,” says a slide Putnam has displayed. He gives some examples of when an employer is negligent in hiring an employee, such as: If the employer knows the employee has a violent history and is hired to work with weapons.

1:34 p.m. ET: Putnam is starting to go through the jury verdict form and the questions jurors have to answer “yes” to in order to find AEG Live liable.

1:30 p.m. ET: “The truth here is a tragedy, make no mistake about that… it’s incredibly sad. But it’s not a tragedy of AEG Live’s making. You can’t point the finger at them and you shouldn’t,” said Putnam. “Mr. Jackson chose this doctor, years before. And Mr. Jackson chose the drug that killed him. Mr. Jackson, like every adult, is responsible for his own choices.”

1:29 p.m. ET: “He was never hired by AEG Live to go on tour. If they hired him, they would have paid him,” Putnam said about Murray. If jurors don’t find that Murray was hired by AEG Live, then they can’t find AEG Live liable for Jackson’s death.

1:25 p.m. ET: “They never told the truth to AEG Live,” Putnam said about Jackson and Murray. “When Michael Jackson’s bedroom was searched, his secrets were revealed.”

Putnam also said AEG Live never would have agreed to finance the tour if it knew Jackson was playing “Russian roulette” every night in his bedroom.

1:22 p.m. ET: Jackson was about half a billion dollars in debt, according to Putnam. Jackson also “spent decades shopping for doctors to give him the pain killers he wanted,” said Putnam.

1:18 p.m. ET: Putnam says AEG Live isn’t responsible for Jackson’s death because “This was a choice Mr. Jackson made, not somebody else. He was a grown man… he is responsible for his own health — certainly his own healthcare. And his is responsible for his own choices, no matter how bad those choices might be.”

Putnam also says AEG Live tried to talk Jackson out of bringing Murray on the tour.

“Mr. Jackson would not take ‘no’ for an answer. If he wanted something, he got it,” said Putnam.

1:14 p.m. ET: AEG Live attorney Marvin Putnam will deliver the closing argument for the defense. He begins by thanking the jurors for their service.

1:11 p.m. ET: The judge is taking the bench.

1:07 p.m. ET: The judge has asked all parties to return to the courtroom at 12:30 p.m. ET Wednesday. The live blog will pick up once closing arguments resume, which should be any minute now.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/09/25/michael-jackson-aeg-wrongful-death-closing-arguments

* * *

MR. PUTNAM’S FARCE IS OVER.

WE NEED A NEW MOLIERE TO DESCRIBE THIS NEW TARTUFFE!

The number of lies in Putnma’s closing arguments is indescribable. It is one lie on top of another forming a non-stop stream of lies and creating a different reality which has nothing to do with real life.

But as every lie it is rather entertaining. If I were to give a name for Putnam’s theatrical performance I would probably call it “The ultimate art of illusion making” as essentially it is the same thing as the act of a conjurer.

The great TeamMichaelJackson has already posted Putnam’s  farce on YouTube.

If you want to know the truth this video is not a place to go to, but if you want to see the process of creating ugly myths and the technology of rubbing them into people’s minds, Putnam’s performance will be a perfect manual for you. It displays the full assortment of liars’ tricks from affected pauses to laughs and rolling one’s eyes in ridiculing the opposing party, and this makes you understand that real evidence is actually the last thing that is needed here.

Here it is:

TeamMichaelJackson has also obtained the transcript http://teammichaeljackson.com/archives/9847 . Frankly it  is so much BS that I am unwilling even to read it, so I am embedding it only for the record:

View this document on Scribd
15 Comments leave one →
  1. September 30, 2013 4:37 pm

    Guys, TeamMichaelJackson has obtained the transcript of Putnam’s closing arguments: http://teammichaeljackson.com/archives/9847. His speech is so much BS that I am unwilling even to read it, but I’ve still embedded it into this post for the sake of the record.

    Like

  2. Lopsided man permalink
    September 26, 2013 5:09 pm

    Helena, here’s a history of President John F. Kennedy’s health problems, and medications he needed to function on a daily basis. It’s amazing he could run a country with the state he was in!

    http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/g35.htm#zree6

    Like

  3. September 26, 2013 3:35 pm

    I had problems with the live stream today, so I also couldn’t see all of Panish’s rebuttal. Hope to be able to see it again.

    There’s some information about the differences between the law firms of Panish and Putnam in this article:
    http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-jackson-lawyers-20130924,0,6437424.story?page=2&track=rss

    Not only AEG is gigantic, also O’Melveny is.

    Like

  4. September 26, 2013 3:00 pm

    “William Wagener just told on FB that Tom Mesereau and Susan Yu are in the courtroom today to listen to Panish’s rebuttal. Hope they spread encouragement and good vibes.” – Susanne

    I’ve caught the very end of Mr. Panish’s closing arguments today and got the impression that he is extremely tired. He could not remember even the names of the doctors who testified at the trial. He also said today that AEG has “rows and rows of lawyers” conveying the idea to us that his own firm does not have the same resources as AEG does.

    AEG is indeed gigantic and I commend Mr. Panish for fighting the multitude of their lawyers all of whom helped Putnam, but Brian Panish was clearly exhausted by the fight and therefore some of the opportunities the Plaintiffs had were not used to the full.

    Like

  5. September 26, 2013 1:27 pm

    William Wagener just told on FB that Tom Mesereau and Susan Yu are in the courtroom today to listen to Panish’s rebuttal. Hope they spread encouragement and good vibes.

    Like

  6. September 26, 2013 10:09 am

    “What Dr.Czeltric meant was that so much damage had been done by prolonged propofol administrations that Michael would have died even without further such “treatments”. – Kaarin

    Kaarin, I’ve looked up Dr. Czeisler’s testimony and realized that I’m missing this particular part of it, so all I can go by is Alan Duke’s article who said the following:

    If the singer had not died on June 25, 2009, of an overdose of the surgical anesthetic, the lack of REM sleep may have soon taken his life anyway, according to an opinion by Czeisler.

    Lab rats die after five weeks of getting no REM sleep, he said. It was never tried on a human until Dr. Murray gave Michael Jackson nightly propofol infusions for two months.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/21/showbiz/jackson-death-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    It is possible that Alan Duke misunderstood Dr. Czeisler but the conclusion is actually logical – if rats die after 37 days of sleep deprivation a human being would die too, only no one ever conducted such experiments. And rats died not because propofol ruined their sleep – they died simply because of the lack of REM sleep and totally irrespective of propofol.

    In Michael’s case propofol might have dissipated sleep and contributed to insomnia, but even without any propofol his sleep deprivation would have brought about the same result. The lack of sleep should have been treated and could not be ingored the way it was. Michael was complaining to lots of people during the rehearsals that he could not sleep and gave it as the main reason for his fatigue, and Gongaware perfectly knew of the problem from his past experience with MJ.

    The problem always exacerbated during the tour but it never exacerbated that bad during rehearsals. Until AEG came Michael had never rehearsed that much before and was never required to attend every rehearsal for two months running 6 days a week.

    They demanded it of him while he was trying to save up his energy for the concerts, nervous as he was about their number and schedule. AEG pressured further, yelled and threatened, and this forced MJ to resort to extreme measure – propofol – to which he thought he would resort only during the tour and occasionally, just before a concert and only in case he could not sleep.

    This is what Dr. Sziesler said about it in the testimony I have. You will see that he connects the insomnia directly with the stressors of the tour, bu the clearly does not know to what additional stress Michael was subjected by AEG:

    Q. Ok, But your most important opinion in this case is that Mr. Jackson’s sleep issues were exacerbated by going on and preparing for tours; right?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And…
    A. That was when his sleep disorder became most acute.
    Q. Right. But you don’t even know when the tours were, do you?
    A. At the time that I was reviewing the material, I did look at the dates of the tours.
    Q. Ok, And where did you … what was your source of information for the dates of the tours?
    A. The tour dates were described in many of the depositions by the various deponents, some of whom were on the tours with him. For example, Mr. Gongaware, when he was on the tour with Mr. Jackson and various other physicians, when they were on the tours. And the depositions of a number of the doctors who accompanied him on the tours, they would state the dates of the tours in those depositions. So I certainly knew the dates of the tours when I had all the materials in front of me.
    Q. Ok,
    A. I just didn’t want to have a quiz program here where I’m trying to remember from memory the exact start and stop dates of each of these tours.
    Q. Ok, And none of those people who were on the tours … none of the doctors, none of the tour staff who testified … none of them said that Mr. Jackson had insomnia associated with tours; correct?
    A. I distinctly remember, for example, Debbie Rowe’s testimony, his wife at the time, that he had extreme difficulty sleeping when he was on tour.
    Q. Did she say it was just when he was on tour, or all the time?
    A. She specifically talked about difficulty … extreme difficulty sleeping in association with the tours, where he would sometimes not be able to sleep for a couple of days after a concert. And as I said in my previous testimony, he certainly had a chronic problem with chronic sleep disorder that was throughout the time he was – you know, that existed for many years. What I was trying to clarify was that it got much worse and was disabling in association with the tours. So … and that’s the key issue for me, is when it becomes disabling. Not to say it’s not present at the other times, but that it was not disabling except when he was in association with the tours. So just to clarify the distinction that I was trying to make.

    …A. In reading the hundreds of pages of her deposition, it was my conclusion from that deposition that it was exacerbated and became disabling when he was on tour but that it was not at that same level of intensity when he was not on tour.

    …Q. Ok. So lots of different types of insomnia that can be caused by lots of different types of things, correct?
    A. Accurate.
    Q. Ok. And with respect to Mr. Jackson, you think it was worse on tour or when preparing for tour because of anxiety that he had about performing and adrenaline from performing; is that fair?
    A. Yes, what is sometimes called adjustment sleep disorder. But it is that … It is that type of insomnia that’s associated with a specific stressor or stressors.
    Q. Right. Like anxiety or the excitement of performing?
    A. Well, just the … The … You know, the adrenaline and so on. It’s not just anxiety, but it can be performance of anyone performing. So, for example, if this court session were being held at midnight, and everyone is keyed up for the asking the questions or answering the questions, it probably would be difficult to fall asleep like right after the session ended.

    …Q. But you believe that Michael Jackson … In things that you’ve reviewed and the opinions you’ve formed, you believe that Michael Jackson knew he had a sleeping problem that got worse when he went on tour?
    A. Yes.
    Q. Ok. And you don’t have any reason to believe that Mr. Jackson didn’t know that he had that problem, right?
    A. No.
    Q. Ok. But he … From your review of the record, you’d agree, wouldn’t you, that Mr. Jackson didn’t want help from doctors to address his sleeping problems in the spring of 2009, right? I’m sorry. Did you understand the question?
    A. I’m … I don’t know how to interpret the question, because he tried … He tried to get help from many doctors to help him sleep.
    Q. Well, he tried to get propofol from many doctors, right?
    A. Actually, he … From dr. Lee, he tried a non-propofol therapy; and, in fact, he had prescriptions from a number of doctors for various medications for sleep medications, so the evidence in the record suggests that he went to many different doctors trying to get something to help him sleep.
    Q. Ok. We’ll come back to that a little bit … A little bit later. I want to talk again about your opinions that you need sleep and it’s bad if you don’t get sleep. Okay?
    A. Yeah.
    Q. You’d agree, wouldn’t you, that chronic sleep loss may have long term effects on a person’s health, correct?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And you think Mr. Jackson probably had some kind of chronic insomnia?
    A. He had a chronic sleep disorder, some type of insomnia that … That was … That was chronic, as is typical of insomnia, and is often … Even chronic insomnia is intermittent in nature, and … And in his case, from the record, it would appear that … That when he was stressed about something … In particular, tours … That his insomnia would get worse. I think it probably also got worse, for example … There’s evidence in the record that it did during the criminal trial that he had to go through.
    Q. The molestation trial?
    A. Yes. It wouldn’t be limited to tours, but it would be … A tour would be an example of something that would be particularly stressful?
    Q. Ok. I misunderstood what you were saying before earlier, then. You’re not saying that it was tours and tours alone that kicked up Mr. Jackson’s insomnia to critical levels, it was stressors, including tours, but also including the criminal charges against him?
    A. When that … Yes.
    Q. All right.
    A. I mean, adjustment sleep disorder would be particular stressors, and they would … Sometimes it’s the stressors in which there was an association that produced the insomnia, so if you … If it were the first time that you were going on tour, you may not anticipate or expect that you would have insomnia, for example, after a concert; but then after it’s happened 20 times, now you’re expecting it to happen, and that actually, unfortunately, makes the likelihood of not being able to sleep greater.
    Q. A self-fulfilling prophecy?
    A. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, yes.
    Q. Ok. But getting back to the general opinions, chronic sleep loss has negative effects on a person’s health, right?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And you think that Mr. Jackson suffered from chronic sleep loss?
    A. Yes, I do.
    Q. And from reviewing the record, you think that Mr. Jackson probably had some form of insomnia for decades, correct?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And the cumulative effects of sleep loss and sleep disorders have a wide range of consequences?
    A. That’s correct.
    Q. People become more distractible?
    A. Yes.
    Q. They got burned out more easily?
    A. Yes.
    Q. The sleep loss and circadian rhythm distraction that Mr. Jackson had would have an adverse impact on his immune system?
    A. It could, yes.
    Q. Which would put him at risk of becoming ill more than the average person that slept well?
    A. There is evidence that people with insomnia or sleep deficiency have an increased risk of becoming ill.

    …Q. I want to talk a little bit now about your opinion that Mr. Jackson, if appropriately diagnosed and treated, could have recovered from his sleep problems and performed and toured for quite a long time.
    A. That’s correct.
    Q. Ok. And that his sleep disorder was treatable?
    A. Yes.

    …Q. Ok. So for insomnia, if you … If Mr. Jackson had come to you and said, help me with my sleep problem, and you had gotten a licensed physician to partner up with you to diagnose and treat him, you would have taken a … Well, you would have used a whole team of sleep specialists to diagnose Mr. Jackson, right?
    A. Yes, I … If I were asked to help the most successful performer who ever lived, I certainly would have assembled a team to try to help him with being able to continue his success.

    …Q. People with chronic insomnia have helpless attitude?
    A. Many of them feel that they have tried everything and nothing works, and so they … I don’t know that I would call it helpless, but they’re pessimistic about the ability to treat the insomnia.

    …Q. And why do you think a concert promoter is an appropriate entity or person to make a referral to a doctor for their business partner?
    A. With the professional performers with whom I work, the organization usually tries to … Because of the intense demands that are put upon the performers to be in different cities and on sometimes grueling schedules, they usually accommodate most of their needs, whether it’s nutritional or accommodations, and so on. And many times, they have a physician who is part of the … The … For example, the … All the professional sports teams will have a team physician who accompanies the team issues that may come up, particularly the medical issues that are related to … To the performances that they’re doing. and addresses the medical
    Q. Ok. So a lot of sports teams or musical artists have a doctor that travels with them to help them with their health issues on tour while they’re playing away games or whatever, right… that’s part of what you’re saying?
    A. Yeah, or their home games, yeah.
    Q. In your experience?
    A. Yeah.

    …Q. Ok. And you said this study was repeated a lot, and I assume the findings have been confirmed by other people with other rats?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And the rats became scrawny and disheveled, right?
    A. Among other things, yes.
    Q. They were unable to maintain their body temperature?
    A. Yes.

    …Q. And, in fact, as of the time of your deposition in April of this year, you hadn’t figured out – put together that all these factors in the record that Mr. Koskoff read to you matched up with chronic sleep deprivation, correct?
    A. Actually, in my deposition, I did say that the chronic sleep deficiency that Mr. Jackson … From which he suffered impaired his ability to learn his dance moves and to … And to perform.

    …Q. So how long was Mr. Jackson suffering from total sleep deprivation, in your opinion?
    A. Probably a couple of months.
    Q. A couple of months?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And so it’s your understanding that he was getting propofol instead of sleep consistently for a couple of months?
    A. Yes.
    Q. Because in the rat study we looked at, if he had gotten even one day of regular sleep, he could have recovered from the negative health effects that you believe he was suffering from in June of 2009.
    A. There is recovery that would take place within one to three days. Since that rat study was done, one of the people who was an author of that study has continued for the subsequent several decades to do research on this topic and finds that the vulnerability … If you are exposed to the sleep deprivation, even if you have a reprieve and, then you are exposed again, and then you have a reprieve, and you are exposed again, you become increasingly vulnerable over time.

    …Q. Can you approximate the number of weeks… I mean, is there a number of weeks below which you don’t think these symptoms would have emerged?
    A. These … The rats died in three weeks. We don’t know exactly how many weeks it would take to reach the same level in humans, and I hope the experiment is never done to find out.

    A. …We know from the email correspondence that people talked about an eight-week period during which Mr. Jackson was deteriorating before their very eyes. I believe that was Mr. Bugzee who said that in an email. And we have various other people testifying that in April, he was doing fine, and he was performing well, and he was fit and competent, and then our testimony … The … The records that i’ve reviewed indicate that things deteriorated over that two-month interval in May and June, which is concurrent with when he was likely getting the propofol. That’s what the propofol was being ordered, and presumably being used. That’s what I mean.

    …Q. But … How long … How long would it take to … For a human to die without any sleep?
    A. No one knows the answer to that question.
    Q. What’s fatal familial insomnia?
    A. It is a disorder in which individuals … It is a Cryon disease in which there is deterioration of the brain, the … The individuals afflicted by this condition cannot sleep, and ultimately they die.
    Q. After how long?
    A. I don’t know the answer to that question.
    Q. You don’t know?
    A. No. I can’t tell you the exact number of days.
    Q. Can you give me an approximate range; it’s a sleep disorder, right?
    A. I’m not going to go down the pathway of the 20 minutes versus 30 minutes of propofol half-life.
    Ms. Cahan: your honor, can you instruct him to answer if he knows?
    The court: if you know the answer, yes or no; if you don’t, say you don’t know.
    The witness: I can’t estimate a range.
    Q. So just to be clear, fatal familial insomnia is a cryon disease that interacts with the brain that causes people to not be able to sleep, and they eventually die from not being able to sleep, correct?
    A. No, it is a cryon disease that involves brain destruction. One of the symptoms of that disease is that they cannot sleep, and eventually they die.
    Q. Ok. And you don’t know how long that takes?
    A. We don’t know if the death is caused by the sleep loss or the brain disease. You said in the question they eventually die of a sleep loss, and that’s why I said no.
    Q. That wasn’t my last question, doctor. Please try to focus on the questions. You don’t know how long it takes for somebody to die after the onset of symptoms and sleeplessness from fatal familial insomnia, correct?
    A. That’s correct.

    Like

  7. September 26, 2013 10:06 am

    Putman:”:You can´t save somebody,they have to save themselves.And more importantly the
    law doesn´t say you have to”.Yes you have to if you are somebodys “personal physician.”
    . Why does he think Murray is In jail?In a critical situation a doctor calls the shots and lets nobody interfere. Then Murray was really a very., very dangerous person maskerading as a physician while orders came from AEG.Michael was decieved and deprived of any say re nr of concerts,rehearsals and financing according to the “contract” practically deprived him of any input to financial arrangements.

    Like

  8. September 26, 2013 8:38 am

    Yes Helena, fingers crossed.

    Like

  9. September 26, 2013 8:34 am

    “Yes, Putnam delivered a shrewd performance, complete with the vilest monologue ever! Let us just await the verdict.” – Suparna

    Mr. Panish will have a chance to say the final word again. I wish he delivered a similar spectacular show but in contrast to Putnam on the basis of truthful facts and told to the jury the detective story of how all that fraud develeloped since January 2009.

    If he finished it with Conrad Murray running on AEG errands on the day Michael died it could make an effective end (of AEG of course).

    Like

  10. September 26, 2013 8:01 am

    Thanks Helena! Yes, Putnam delivered a shrewd performance, complete with the vilest monologue ever! Let us just await the verdict.

    Like

  11. September 26, 2013 7:59 am

    AEG;Murray was a successful doctor. How?Getting licenses in different states is real easy. Was he successful economically? No.No ordinary ,regular doctor would ever have done what Murray did.Sure there where a few who erred a bit on the wrong side in the past.,but none risked Michaels life.Have you ever happened on those traffic signs: “Do Not Even Think of Parking Here”What Murray did was insane or really a bad doctor to venture into what he did.–What Dr.Czeltric meant was that so much damage had been done by prolonged propofol administrations that Michael would have died even without further such “treatments”.Murray was a bad doctor, not keping records. Here, even for moderate illnessess you have 20-30 LAb examinations and + other examinations if indicated. And you follow up with repeat examinations.-Give Murray The Federation Licensing Examination. I bet he will flunk.
    And AEG is trying the 3 monkey method; Don´t see.,don´t hear, don´t speak (the thruth anyway,better not to remember)
    well,Murray, he took his orders from AEG.And they did their best to keep others silent about the thruth as well..It should be Murder.

    Like

  12. September 26, 2013 7:31 am

    “Marvin Putnam is just INTOLERABLE! Just can’t bear to watch his closing arguments! They are just too ugly and false!” – Suparna

    Suparna, I understand. The impression was that of one lie on top of another lie multiplied by a third one. Not a single word of truth. A stream of all sorts of lies poured on the jury and viewers with a smile, emotion, rolling eyes, pauses and laughs for effect, in a lively and almost dancing manner.

    It was a theatrical performance and would better belong to some sinister type of entertainment, and I was watching it as such – just as the art of making lies taken by Putnam to a level of sophistication I had never seen before.

    For a performance like this actually no evidence is needed – on the contrary, it is the art of hiding facts and replacing them with demagogy, hypocrisy and distraction.

    Now it remains to be seen whether all these tricks had any effect on the jury.

    Like

  13. September 26, 2013 6:25 am

    Hi Helena,

    Hope you are better now! Marvin Putnam is just INTOLERABLE! Just can’t bear to watch his closing arguments! They are just too ugly and false!

    Like

  14. September 26, 2013 4:20 am

    Guys, let me single out one Charles Thomson’s tweet:

    AEG lawyer: Jackson would have died anyway, with or without AEG. // On what basis is AEG claiming that?

    I want to draw a line between the above AEG’s statement and Dr. Ceizler’s words that MJ would have died all the same even without propofol.

    It is this “all the same” that may create a big confusion and look like it is one and the same thing.

    BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT!

    AEG says that MJ was an “addict” who would have died all the same – with or without AEG.

    And Dr. Ceizner says that MJ was suffering from a very grave case of insomnia and lack of REM sleep which would have ultimately brought about MJ’s death even without any propofol (so propofol is not even an issue here).

    AEG is justifying their indifference to the grave condition MJ was in by their own thinking of him as an addict who was “doomed”.

    But MJ wasn’t doomed – astraunats aren’t doomed by their insomnia on the space station. All that is needed is adequate help, which is given to astraunats and they work perfectly well in the outer space conditions, and which was denied to MJ exactly due to AEG’s preconceptions about Michael and discarding him as an “addict” who would “die anyway”.

    Like

  15. September 26, 2013 3:22 am

    Here are some of Charles Thomson’s, Karen Faye’s and other people’s tweets on Charles Thomson’s Twitter yesterday:

    Charles Thomson @CEThomson 14
    Is AEG seriously claiming ‘nobody’ knew MJ had painkiller issues? Seriously? Anybody who’d read a tabloid since 1993 knew it.
    AEG lawyer claims AEG didn’t know what MJ was doing. Irrelevant. Total smokescreen.
    Jacksons’ lawyer made clear that jurors need only find that AEG knew MJ was deteriorating. Emails prove conclusively that AEG did.
    Banging on about AEG not knowing what propofol was. Irrelevant.
    AEG lawyer talking about Jackson being an ‘addict’. Irrelevant. He was ‘addicted’ at times to painkillers. Not propofol.
    His death was a homicide, according to his death certificate. Nothing do with with ‘addiction’ to painkillers
    Claims AEG didn’t hire Dr Murray, even though they gave him a contract and exchanged bank details.
    On what basis is AEG claiming Murray was fit & competent? He treated insomnia with anesthetic without the right equipment & didn’t know CPR.

    Charles Thomson @CEThomson 13
    AEG lawyer: Jackson would have died anyway, with or without AEG. // On what basis is AEG claiming that? Murray flew out when AEG called him.
    AEG on Jacksons: Their claim is he was so sick and it was so obvious to everyone that AEG should have known that…
    … And then they say but he was going to go on and perform more world tours?
    AEG lawyer: Jacksons are ‘torturing’ AEG.
    @SurefireMJ AEG does not have to have known what MJ’s condition or treatment was.
    @SurefireMJ They simply have to have known that under their employee’s treatment, MJ was deteriorating. Emails prove this is the case.
    AEG lawyer still trying to claim AEG did not hire Dr Murray. Absolutely farcical. He’s making a fool of himself by even pursuing this point.
    Quite telling that AEG’s lawyer is basing so much of his case on the testimony of AEG employees who were totally discredited on the stand.
    AEG lawyer claims Jackson was to pay Dr Murray. Even though Murray had an AEG contract and his salary was in AEG’s budget.
    Claiming the fact that AEG never paid Murray is proof they never hired him. Totally untrue. Jacksons’ lawyer addressed this yesterday.
    They’ve hidden Stebbins behind a computer monitor today so the camera can’t catch her completely inappropriate behaviour.

    Dial Dancer @Dial_Dancer 13
    @CEThomson Sliding around the truth. MJ gave 2 money, but that is not same as him paying salary. Gave money 2 homeless but did not employ.
    Charles Thomson @CEThomson 13
    @Dial_Dancer Exactly.
    AEG says contracts show MJ was responsible for negligence of his tour party.
    Only AEG witnesses testified that AEG was not to control the doctor. Only AEG witnesses said Murray wanted contract changed to implicate MJ.

    TheMJAP @TheMJAP 13
    @CEThomson And, when MJ died, Murray pursued AEG and NOT the MJ Estate for reimbursement.
    @CEThomson That would hold water if AEG execs hadn’t made the EXPLICIT claim that ‘it’s AEG who are paying him, NOT MJ
    Charles Thomson @CEThomson 13
    @TheMJAP Panish will have fun with his rebuttal. ‘AEG never had an agreement with Dr Murray’. That’s why they have him an AEG contract?
    @TheMJAP He claims because MJ never signed, there was no contract. It is a laughable argument.
    AEG claims there was never an AEG/Murray contract. A contract between Murray and AEG was found in Murray’s car by police.

    sugerflywm @sugerflywm 13
    @CEThomson Why does he keep on saying “overwhelming evidence” when he is using only aeg testimony.. most of it being I dont recall
    Charles Thomson @CEThomson 13
    @sugerflywm All the way through the Jacksons’ closing argument, they showed documents, emails and videos.
    @sugerflywm AEG’s lawyer is just making endless bold statements without any supporting evidence whatsoever.

    MJsLoveIsMagical @MJLoveIsMagical 13
    @CEThomson In CA a verbal agreement holds up as well as the many emails which prove clearly that AEG hired CM and controlled his actions!
    Charles Thomson @CEThomson 13
    @MJLoveIsMagical Exactly. AEG’s lawyers are grasping at straws with their ‘we didn’t hire him’ argument.
    @MJLoveIsMagical I don’t know if they have a case elsewhere, but they don’t have a case on this issue. It’s lunacy.
    @MJLoveIsMagical The lawyer is likely acting on AEG’s instructions. He probably feels a wally having to stand there and say this stuff.
    The contract holding MJ liable for production costs was signed on his behalf after he died by someone he fired 2 months earlier.
    AEG now putting its own theories into the Jacksons’ mouths. Only discredited AEG witnesses say MJ insisted on Murray, decided his fee, etc.
    Contracts given to Murray said, paragraph 9, he couldn’t be hired without MJ’s agreement.
    AEG claims this means because Jackson never signed, AEG never had a contract or agreement with Murray.
    However, Murray had been working for 60 days while negotiating contract. AEG had his salary in their budget, took his bank details.
    AEG also agreed to give Murray medical equipment and hire him an assistant. Despite having ‘no agreement’ with him. Lunacy.
    AEG acted as though it had already hired Murray. It allowed him to work on AEG’s say-so. Put his salary in its budget.
    Promised him medical equipment and an assistant.
    Asked him to be present at meetings. Told other AEG employees that Murray should be their main point of contact for MJ.
    Emailed other AEG employees singing Murray’s praises, claiming to have checked him out and that he was ‘fantastic’.
    Gongaware sent an email saying the deal was ‘done’ at $150k per month.

    Karen Faye @wingheart 13
    Kenny Ortega, was taking orders from Randy Phillips. I was taking orders from Randy Philips, Kenny Ortega and Frank DiLeo. Michael was in no condition and incapable to make decisions. He was so ill, mentally and physically during the last weeks of his life. So who was making the choices on how to keep the ship from sinking? http://tl.gd/mnrcb0
    Michael Jackson never signed my contract, but I got paid and Randy Philips threatened to sue me under my confidentiality clause in the AEG contract when I was speaking out. http://tl.gd/mnrcsj

    Charles Thomson @CEThomson 12
    AEG lawyer urges jury to disregard Randy Phillips’ documented, videotaped claim that AEG had hired Dr Murray.
    AEG lawyer urges jury to disregard email by AEG exec saying that AEG was paying Murray’s salary and controlling him.
    Lawyer didn’t give much of an explanation as to why jurors should disregard that extremely damning email.
    He seems to be suggesting that unless you have videotape of AEG & Murray making an in-person, oral argument, you can’t make an inference.
    Even if contemporaneous emails show the involved parties explicitly stating that AEG is paying and controlling the doctor.
    Claims AEG execs were telling the truth when they claimed not to remember extremely important and sometimes deeply concerning emails.
    AEG lawyer appears to be saying jurors should disregard the evidence they do have in case it contradicts other evidence that doesn’t exist.

    Karen Faye @wingheart 12
    So, the contract is only valid when it works for them.
    Charles Thomson @CEThomson 12
    Murrays actions ‘far, far outside the job description’, says AEG lawyer. What job description? I thought AEG ‘hadn’t hired him’?
    AEG lawyer says it would have been a ‘red flag’ if MJ had asked for an anesthesiologist to come on tour.
    Wasn’t it a red flag when Murray asked for a nurse, a gurney & IV drips? Apparently not. AEG agreed to his terms. Despite ‘not hiring him’.
    AEG lawyer now saying again that AEG knew nothing about propofol. Jurors have already heard this is irrelevant.

    June Astford ?@JAstford 12
    @CEThomson and uses the wording in the contract to prove there never was a contract!!
    Charles Thomson @CEThomson 12
    @JAstford Yes, the irony of that is quite brilliant. ‘Dr Murray’s contract with AEG proves there was no contract!’ Magnificent.

    TK @amoremotus 12
    @CEThomson Lets not forget the meeting between RP and CM while MJ was AWAY! How is that justified if you have NO business with CM?
    Charles Thomson @CEThomson 11
    I’m giving up on AEG’s closing argument. It has been entirely feeble thus far. CSI is on. I’d rather watch that.

    https://twitter.com/CEThomson

    Like

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