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Conrad Murray’s crazy lies or HOW HE KILLED MICHAEL JACKSON

December 1, 2013

Conrad Murray and the media are now busy creating new myths about Michael Jackson. Some of them are bad, some are crazy and some are downright terrible.

A TERRIBLE LIE

In contrast to your expectations the most terrible lie out of everything Murray is now saying is a lie about Michael allegedly self-administering Propofol and killing himself by accident.

In his recent interviews Murray proclaims himself an innocent man and openly shifts the blame onto Michael.

Another terrible thing is that this lie is being propagated by the media too, and they began doing it even before Murray went on TV and started telling his stories there.

The first time I noticed it was in the episode of “Celebrity Crime files” dated the end of October. 

If you scroll to the very end of the tape here http://tvone.tv/shows/celebrity-crime-files/video/celebrity-crime-files–michael-jackson-full-episode.html  (31:00 and to the end of the video at 34:40) you will hear the following text:

This vague scene suggesting that Michael self-administered propofol was repeated several times in the film

This blurred  scene suggesting that Michael self-administered propofol was repeated several times in the film though IT NEVER HAPPENED THAT WAY

Voiceover: Toxicology from the autopsy revealed a lethal amount of propofol – total of 15 milligrams in Jackson’s body. But the defense argues that Dr. Murray gave him only half that much and that it was Jackson who made up the difference.

Valerie Wass: “Dr. Murray and the defense believe that while Dr. Murray was outside the room Michael Jackson self-administered a dose of 25 milligrams of propofol through the IV port.

Voiceover: But not all experts agree.

Dr. Shaffer: “….. he grabbed the next dose in the syringe, drawed it and shoved it into the IV, that’s just .. it’s a crazy scenario”

Another expert: “He would literally have to get up, kind of sit up in bed and lean over, and reach out and push that syringe”.

Wendy Burch, KTLA reporter: “I as a court observer had a hard time believing that” 

Voiceover: Many in the courtroom wanted to hear Dr. Murray’s version of the events. But he opts to remain silent throughout the trial. On November 7th, 2011 the jury reaches a verdict:

  • “We find the defendant Conrad Robert Murray GUILTY of the crime of involuntary manslaughter of alleged victim Michael Joseph Jackson.”

Voiceover: Murray is sentenced to a maximum of four years in prison.

Wendy Burch, KTLA reporter: “The defense of Conrad Murray just wasn’t strong enough ….and the charge of manslaughter seemed appropriate”.

Voiceover: But despite allegations of gross negligence on Dr. Murray’s behalf some remained conflicted about the case.

Dr. Tracy Faye Tolbert, Victimologist, Cal.StateUniversity: “Dr. Murray was going to be a scapegoat because someone had to pay.”

Voiceover: Later that month Dr. Murray’s lawyer files an appeal seeking to overturn the conviction. 

Valerie Wass: “He maintained that he is not responsible for Michael Jackson’s death. He stated that he wanted to bestow honor to the Jacksons’ family and to himself…”

“The defense of Conrad Murray just wasn’t strong enough?” What are they talking about at all??  Has any of them listened to the testimonies at the trial?

And they dare to call the charges against Murray “allegations” of gross negligence when the trial actually proved that Murray was grossly negligent and this is why he is a convicted felon now and not just an “alleged” criminal!

They are shifting the focus from the fact that all experts agreed that Michael Jackson could not self-administer propofol and are placing it on a lie that “not all experts” agreed about it, thus producing the opposite impression – while only one expert on the part of the defense ventured the self-administration idea and all the rest rejected it altogether!

They show the simulation of a fictional scene of “MJ doing it himself” several times over in the film and repeatedly accompany the scene with words describing how MJ could allegedly do it!

And they close the scene with a hint that Murray opted to keep silence because he wanted to “bestow honor to the Jacksons’ family”! The idea is that he felt sorry for them and this is why the noble he decided to keep silence, you know…

The film was shown sometime at the end of October and at the end of November Conrad Murray came on stage himself carrying with him a bag of lies one of which is that Michael allegedly “self-administered” the drug.

Here is an excerpt from his interview to 60 Minutes on Australian TV beginning with 0:30 (sorry for my poor transcript of it):

- If you didn't put it there, who did? - Michael.

Part 1 of the bad theatrical performance: “If you didn’t put it there, who did?”  Murray: “Michael”

– The coroner found that Michael Jackson died of acute intoxication of propofol and that his body had enough propofol in it that would be equivalent to someone having a major surgery. How did that get into his body?

– Well, this takes an education….I did not give it to him.

– If you didn’t put it there, who did?

– Michael.

– I think the depute coroner pointed it out that it is absolutely absurd.

– No, it is not.

– It would be almost impossible for him to come out of a sleep, inject the propofol and be unconscious and indeed no longer breathing  in the two minutes that you said you left the room.

– One of the good things about the properties of propofol is that it is so quick to act and it is so quick for the effect to leave you.

– In two minutes he has come out of his sleep, he has injected himself with propofol that I’m assuming is handy to him  to be  to do, and then he is gone back to sleep and then blow me down he’s died.

– I’m saying that Michael Jackson died unfortunately from an accident based upon his actions.

– You made that up. You don’t believe it.

– What?

– It’s just not true.

– No, that’s not the case.

– If you were his friend…

– Uhuh

– …you would not tell that story.

– I was not present when Michael Jackson took matters in his own hand. Michael Jackson as you have realized now is a drug-addict.

– I have to be honest with you and say: A court didn’t believe you. The jurors didn’t believe you. The judge said this was medical madness, that it was a homicide case, not even malpractice. Michael Jackson died because you killed him.

– I did not kill Michael Jackson. I met Michael Jackson in his state, lifeless or not, I met him in a state, all I was I did my best to help and to revive him.

Murray does not even bother to explain things and simply states that it was Michael’s own doing. This Australian journalist takes care to  remind Murray that Michael received the amount of propofol equivalent to the quantity given to a patient during a major surgery and what does Murray say to that?

He is completely unperturbed by this fact, says nothing to explain it and simply repeats his  now ever-present mantra that Michael “took the matter in his own hand”.

Okay, if he so much insists on it let’s look into this version and answer the question if Michael could really “take the matter in his own hands”.

Could he?

No, he couldn’t. This is indeed an absolutely crazy scenario and there are very many reasons for it.

One of them is that there were no Michael’s fingerprints either on the syringe, vials or bottles of propofol.   

Dr. Shafer shows that it is very difficult to draw liquid from a vacuum glass vial into a syringe

Dr. Shafer shows how difficult it is to draw liquid from a vacuum glass vial into a syringe. 2,5 ml is just what he managed to draw in.  This is the amount Murray claims  to have given to Michael

Another is that he would not be able to draw propofol into a syringe by himself because of a vacuum inside a glass vial.

Dr. Shafer showed it in the experiment he conducted before the jury. To be able to draw propofol through the rubber stopper one needs to know how to do it by pushing some air inside and back – otherwise the barrel stops and would simply not draw any liquid inside the syringe. I once tried it and the process was so hopeless that it sent me almost into a panic.

But even the difficulty in handling the syringe or lack of fingerprints are not the main factor showing that Murray is lying.

The main factor is that a syringe holds a maximum of 10ml of propofol while Michael died of about 206ml of it.

HE GAVE HIM MORE THAN 200ML OF PROPOFOL 

How do we know that Michael received at least 206 ml?

Easily – with the help of Dr. Shafer, the toxicology report and a precious table of recent scientific findings.

The toxicology report says that the quantity of propofol found in Michael’s urine was 0.15 micrograms per ml. Multiplied by the amount of urine recovered from Jackson (approx. 500ml) the residual propofol that went into his urine was the overall 82.5 micrograms. Let us remember this figure.

The toxicology report. Please pay attention to 0.15 micrograms of propofol in the urine

The toxicology report. Please pay attention to 0.15 micrograms of propofol in the urine

The precious table below shows us examples of how much Propofol goes into patients’ urine depending on the quantity they receive during operations.

The table was shown at the trial by Dr. Shafer who is not just another of those experts on propofol – he was actually the one who worked out dosages of propofol for the company producing it, so when he shares with us the latest scientific findings we can believe that we are getting the most accurate of information:

Propofol table - residual 1

The closest example to Michael in the above table is a patient with 70.71 micrograms of propofol in his urine (its amount is approximately the same =530 ml). This was the quantity of residual propofol in micrograms accumulated in the patient’s bladder after 4 hours of surgery as a result of 200ml of Propofol administered into his blood during the operation.

But if 200ml of Propofol flowing in the blood leaves 70,71 mcg in the urine, in order to collect 82.5 mcg Michael was to receive an even bigger volume than that.

Dr. Shaffer said that according to the latest studies only 0, 004% of the Propofol injected into blood goes into urine (the rest breaks up on the way). In Michael’s case this 0,004% amounted to 82.5mcg (see the figure calculated above).

This gives us all the figures we need to know. Now to be able to find out how much overall Propofol Michael received on the night of his death all we have to do is calculate the 100% following a simple formula:

(82.5mcg x 100%): 0,004   = 2062500 mcg = 2062,5mg =  206ml of propofol.                                

So whatever method we use, judging by the amount of propofol in his urine Michael received no less than 200ml of propofol on the night he died.

MURRAY’S BIG LIE ABOUT THE NIGHT OF JUNE 24

Murray claims that he gave Michael only 2,5ml (or 25 milligrams) of propofol, while all the rest of it Michael took by himself.

And now that we know that the overall quantity was at least 206ml, following Murray’s story we are supposed to assume that the rest of 200ml was self-administered by Michael Jackson and in the two minutes while Murray was away. Really?

These two minutes are by the way another of Murray’s big lies. Judging by the phone calls he made that night  forty minutes of being away from Jackson look much more realistic, so let’s accept the period of 40 minutes as a much more credible working theory and also as the one more favourable for Murray’s present version.

This amended variant will now state that he gave Michael only 2,5 ml of Propofol and the remaining part of it (forget about 2,5 ml, it was 200ml!) was self-administered by MJ during the 40 minutes while Murray was away. Was it possible?

No, it wasn’t.

Why wasn’t it?

A propofol bottle of 100ml = 1000mg. Michael received 2 bottles like this one from Murray on June 25th

1000mg of propofol is equal to 100ml. On June 24th Murray gave Michael at least 2 bottles of it, 100ml each

For many reasons one of which is that those 200ml of Propofol came in TWO bottles of 100ml each.

This means that first Michael had to self-administer one 100ml bottle (for example, in the first half hour while Murray was away), and then had to stand up and self-administer one more bottle of 100ml of Propofol which was to drip into his body during the rest of the time while Murray was not by his side.

And the most interesting part of it is that Michael Jackson should have stayed alive during those two procedures.

You wonder why? Because if he had not survived up to the end of the second bottle his urine would not have collected the amount of propofol found during the autopsy (82.5micrograms) as urine is generated only while the body is functioning.

In other words those 82.5 micrograms could be accumulated only while the 206mls of propofol were flowing into his body, his heart was beating and his blood was circulating as a result of which those micrograms of residual propofol finally landed in his urine.

This brings us to a conclusion that though Michael received at least 206 ml of Propofol that night, all the time while propofol was administered to him HE WAS ALIVE.

So as a very minimum the above means that Conrad Murray’s description of the events on the night of June 24 is FALSE through and through.

The amount of Propofol he gave to Michael that night was far more than 2,5ml and Michael didn’t inject himself with anything at all – because there was no need to. That night Murray gave Michael at least two 100ml bottles of propofol and as a result of that Michael was asleep for several hours.

How long did he sleep that night?

As we already know in case of a major surgery 200ml are enough to keep the patient under general anesthesia for approximately 4 hours. General anesthesia or deep sedation means that the patient is most probably not breathing on his own, and his lungs are ventilated by a machine.

This was not Michael’s case as there was no equipment to assist him to breathe, so he was breathing naturally and this means that he was under a light sedation. But if the same amount of 206ml of propofol was given to Michael for a light sedation (with a less dosage) it could keep him sleeping for a much longer time – probably 7 or more hours.

So on the night of June 24th Michael was sleeping, and up till now Murray was telling us a huge pile of lies. The heart-wrenching account of Michael being unable to fall asleep until morning may have been true, only it must be referring to another night in the same period of time when Michael was indeed totally sleepless and was unable to attend those damned AEG rehearsals.

And if here Murray tells us a big lie it means that Murray is so pathological a liar that it would be sheer lunacy to believe him in everything else.

ANOTHER CRAZY LIE

However when it comes to Jackson every journalist turns into a sort of a lunatic and this Australian interviewer is no exception. She specifically wonders what our big liar Murray has to say about Michael as a human being and opens the subject with a leading question:

“What do you make of the man who is sleeping with a doll and an urine bag attached to him? What do you make of that?”

Since all Murray is capable of is a lie only let me be the first to answer this question. Murray did not have to “make anything” of that urine bag and could simply say everything as it was. The matter was explained to me by a nurse in a hospital where I recently stayed. She said that during anesthesia muscles relax, “all holes open up” and the body may not be able to hold what it usually holds.

Considering that each night Murray was giving Michael fluids to compensate for dehydration during rehearsals the condom catheter was a necessity as Michael was receiving an excessive amount of fluids and was getting them during anesthesia that was making his muscles relax.

There were pictures of babies all around. So what?

There were pictures of babies all around. So what?

The doll was part of Michael’s room which among other things also contained pictures of children. These were probably the only reminder for Michael of the beautiful and innocent part of life which he had little opportunity to observe as most of the time he had to associate with the people he had to associate with. So at least during his sleepless nights he could look at some angelic faces and I cannot reprimand him for it.

Murray, a father of 7 kids by 6 different women, who does not give a damn about sustaining them in life, naturally has his own views on the problem.

After that question was asked of him and a theatrical scene of “overcoming his feelings” followed, this big connoisseur of human nature and a big drama actor finally declared:

Murray: “Michael…….I’m… I want to be so… I’m fair and I am open!…. and let me just say… that Michael is not a perfect man… By far! Michael has a huge dark shadow. Michael slept with dolls, yeah?” (she nods)

“Is that normal? No, it is not normal. But if you understood the history of Michael as a child and the things that he encountered in life and you are willing to listen you probably wouldn’t judge him. “

Interviewer: “Do you believe he is a pedophile?”  (frankly, she looked like the one who wanted to ask it from the very start)

This was followed by a scene of famous Murray’s stare for 15 seconds or so which ended in a statement:

"I'm not prepared to answer this question"

Part 2 of the bad theatrical performance: “I’m not prepared [pause] to answer this question”

Murray: “I am not prepared … to answer that question”.

Then came a solemn whisper:

“Not now…”

(I nearly jumped up. And when, dear? When they pay you a 6-digit sum and not these 5-digit peanuts?)

“And I’ll tell you the reason why. Because my interview which is quite candid and honest… I won’t be able to fabricate anything…”

(You perfectly will fabricate, especially after you sent all these signals to the future publishers. I already see the title of the book and it’s called “The book of revelations”)

Interviewer: As a friend, as someone who was his closest friend (a slow and solemn nod from Murray) I would have expected you to say “Absolutely not”.

Murray: “Well, sometimes expectations are not always satisfied. But one thing I’ll tell you is this. I may have formed an impression of an individual based upon certain things that I’ve seen or encountered…”

Interviewer: ‘The reason I am pressing you is because by saying what you are saying are you deliberately muddying the waters here? Because this is what you are doing. You are leaving it unclear about your thoughts. Is that fair to Michael Jackson? Or do you have something that you know?”

Murray: “I am not here to be unfair to Michael and I am not here to destroy Michael”. (I am here to sell my future book). “You’ve asked a question and I am not prepared to answer(because I haven’t yet decided what to invent and how to prove it).

And then again: “Not now”.

Part 3 of the performance: " I loved Michael very, very much".

Part 3 of the performance: ” I loved Michael very, very much”. With love like this who needs hate?

Interviewer: “What responsibility do you take?”

Murray: “For his death? None”.

Interviewer: “None? Absolutely nothing?

Murray: “Nothing.  Nothing that I gave Michael Jackson that should have killed him”

The curtain falls.

Well, I have a couple of suggestions for Conrad Murray’s future book.

Even if Michael had had something to hide (though he had nothing) it is a big mistake to think that Michael would have shared his secrets with Murray to open himself to blackmail, extortion, civil lawsuits and other beautiful things he so heavily enjoyed in life. So in no way can Murray present it as an open revelation on MJ’s part.

This leaves Conrad Murray the only chance that MJ blurted out some “secret” under sedation. However here Murray will encounter another difficulty as Michael had similar experiences in life and stood their test perfectly well.

First of all, he was sedated by Evan Chandler when he was in his house in 1993. However even that masterful extortionist did not manage to extract anything incriminating from Michael – under sedation he giggled and revealed some secrets about gay men in Hollywood but did not say a single thing which would be of interest and instrumental for Evan Chandler’s cause. It was with some disappointment that Ray Chandler wrote about the failed attempt in his book.

Another case of interrogation was Uri Geller hypnotizing Michael and also asking him about “boys”. The answer was “No” again, after which Uri Geller invited him to his wedding and he and Rabbi Schmuley continued to be big friends of Michael Jackson until the moment both of them betrayed Michael – Uri by introducing him to Martin Bashir and Schmuley by fiddling with the funds of the Heal the world foundation.

And the third case of an undercover interrogation was when Michael’s big friend Conrad Murray made a recording of him which convinced us of Michael’s complete innocence.

When Murray was putting Michael under propofol he recorded what Michael was dreaming of, and contrary to what you could expect of a p-le, he was talking of his dream to build a hospital for sick children, how much it hurt him to see them ill and how badly they needed game rooms and movie theatres inside hospitals to help them recover. “They are sick because they are depressed” said Michael and he was right.

Under sedation he also said that he had no more hope in the present generation and spoke about God.

Here is the text of Murray’s recording of Michael:

Jackson:  Elvis didn’t do it.  Beatles didn’t do it.  We have to be phenomenal.  When people leave this show, when people leave my show, I am them to say, “I’ve never seen nothing like this in my life.  Go. Go.  I’ve never seen nothing like this.  Go. It’s amazing.  He’s the greatest entertainer in the world.”  I’m taking that money, a million children, children’s hospital, the biggest in the world, Michael Jackson’s Children’s Hospital.  Gonna have a movie theater, game room. Children are depressed. The –in those hospitals, no game room, no movie theater. They’re sick because they’re depressed.  Their mind is depressing them.  I want to give them that.  I care about them, them angels.  God wants me to do it.  God wants me to do it.  I’m gonna do it, Conrad.

Murray I know you would.

Jackson: Don’t have enough hope, no more hope.  That’s the next generation that’s gonna save out planet, starting with-we’ll talk about it.  United States, Europe, Prague, my babies.  They walk around with no mother.  They drop them off, they leave – –   a psychological degradation of that.  They reach out to me – please take me with you.

Murray: Mmmnh-mmnh

Jackson: I’m gonna do that for them.  That will be remembered more than my performances.  My performances will be up there helping my children and always be my dream.  I love them.  I love them, because I didn’t have a childhood.  I had no childhood.  I feel their pain. I feel their hurt.  I can deal with it.  “Heal the World,” “We are the World,” “Will You be There,” “The Lost Children.”  These are the songs I’ve written because I hurt, you know, I hurt.

Murray: You okay?

Jackson: I am asleep.

There is a saying that “what’s on a sober man’s mind is on the tongue of a drunk one” meaning that when we are sober we are able to control our subconscious, but when we are affected by alcohol (or are in a half-conscious state during anesthesia) the brakes loosen and the man will show his deepest innermost self which may turn out to be anything.

If the above was the worst of Michael Jackson I can give an oath on the Bible that he was the most innocent man I’ve ever seen in life. I’ve never heard any drunk man talking how to heal sick children and I’ve never heard anyone willing to give away his last money to build a hospital for them. And I’ve never heard a man under any sort of sedation to loose his tongue bad enough to speak of God as his guiding spirit…

So God please save us from the revelations of a certain Conrad Murray who is evidently planning to take it upon himself to share his views on the man of Michael Jackson’s caliber.

Those who spend their whole free time in striptease clubs, abandon their own children, lie like crazy and kill without any remorse should keep their valuable thoughts to themselves please and not lecture others about those whom they are unable to even minimally come close to.

WHAT MURRAY SAYS ABOUT THE WAY HE KILLED MICHAEL JACKSON

However some of Murray’s revelations are very eye-opening. Let us listen to what he said in another interview given to DayBreakiTV the transcript of which was made by the Boycott Murray campaign group:

Int: Conrad Murray served two years of a four year sentence. He joins us now live from the USA. You do honestly believe Mr. Murray that you did all that you could to save Michael Jackson, he was a very vulnerable and fragile patient, do you think you did all that you could?

CM: Yes I did.

Int: You do, you think… because really he trusted you, didn’t he? He trusted you and why didn’t you call the Emergency Services right away?

CM: I am a clinical specialist, I am clinically trained in medicine of the highest level as a specialist as well as a sub-specialist and therefore that is my forte, reviving patients who are requires (sic) resuscitation is what I do. So if I stumble upon someone in need of that type of resuscitative effort then I will go straight in to that mode to try and help.

Int: So you honestly believe that you took proper care, at the time Michael Jackson was in your care, that you took proper care of him.

CM: Just absolutely.

Int: Do you feel any remorse or feel guilty about what happened to him?

CM: I feel very sorry that Michael is dead, there’s no doubt about it. It is a loss I will never recover from, but as far as having remorse from doing something wrong, I did not do anything wrong. Actually, I am an innocent man who was persecuted to the maximum, sent to jail, and has been demoralized over years as far as, you know, being harshly persecuted in every possible way that I can think, but despite the pain and suffering I have felt I carry no grudges, I’m not in any way looking to avenge what has happened to me. I would like to have my story, hopefully on adversity I’ve encountered be used well so that I can save the lives of many.

Int: You talk about your pain and suffering. What about the suffering of Michael Jackson’s family, especially his children and his fans. I mean his family, they were traumatized by this and as were his fans too. Don’t you… I mean you talk about your suffering but what about theirs?

CM: I am very, very sad about Michael’s children, there is no question about it. You know I remember Michael’s daughter, Paris was telling me that she didn’t want to be an orphan. I was close to those children as a parent can be.

Int: You’re not close to them now though? You’re not close to them now surely? Not in anyway at all, they want you to go away really, I mean they’ve actually said that. They would actually like you to leave the United States and to be quiet.

CM: Well you know I can tell you this. The Jackson’s have caused so much damage to their own son, and if you are a person that is impartial and if you understand Michael – Michael has been devastated through the years by his own family. Michael severed all ties with every member of his relatives before he died. Now you don’t know that because you were not that close to him but clearly I do because I was right in his presence when he made some statements. There was no communication whatsoever.

Int: Well his family aren’t here to actually rebut these allegations they you’re making but clearly what you’re saying… You’re saying you are an innocent man, the jury didn’t agree. You went to jail, you were convicted and you went to jail and yet you sit here still maintaining your innocence.

CM: Absolutely. Have you ever seen innocent men that have been incarcerated and have then found out that an error was made and they finally are released. I’m a man who has been persecuted to the extent. At this time, up until now, I have been blamed by a key witness Dr. Shafer, who states that there was Propofol and in Propofol there was Lidocaine, and although he makes the claim, they have refused my defense team and or myself, despite all of our efforts to test the substance to further show that there is no Propofol that is left in Mr. Jackson, there’s no Lidocaine, there was no infusion. The evidence was very clear. There was no evidence of Propofol in the bag, in the line that should have been attached to the patient, none of that. It was not there. The evidence does not support that.

Int: Well that’s what you are saying, again I say to you the jury did not agree with you and that’s why you went to jail and if you’re saying you had nothing to do with it then why did Michael Jackson die? What happened?

CM: Michael Jackson? I met Michael Jackson in a state of distress. Michael Jackson was basically lifeless. I was not there, you know my arms could only stretch so far, I was not even present in his bedroom…

Int: Why weren’t you present? Why weren’t you there and what were you doing rather than attending your patient?

CM: There was no reason for me to attend to Mr. Jackson any further. Mr. Jackson was given a small dose of Propofol around 10:40 in the morning. I did not leave his bedside until about 11:20 – 11:25. The effects of Propofol are completely gone within 15 minutes of administration. He had no issues, I didn’t even expect Mr. Jackson to be sedated and to fall asleep with such a minuscule dose of Propofol. But in my absence, after leaving his bedside when the effects of Propofol was gone way beyond the 15 minutes, I was not on the phone you can also look at the phone records that they gave me. The last phone call I made ended was at 10:43. At 11:07 there was a one minute call that came in that was a voice mail call and the next time I used my phone was 11:20 – 11:25, I moved from his bedside only so I do not disturb him, but this was a man after nine hours of no sleep umm I wanted him to get some rest if it was possible.

Int: I find it absolutely astonishing that someone is being given a powerful drug like that, a drug that’s used, as I know personally, is actually used to put you out during operations. We’re going to have to leave it there for the moment, we’re going to talk to you lots, lots more about your relationship with Michael Jackson and your plans for the future. Mr. Murray thank you for the moment.

Transcription By: @sgaa_mj

http://boycottcmcampaign.tumblr.com/post/68099455350/transcript-conrad-murray-daybreakitv-interview-part-1

Did anyone pay attention to Conrad Murray saying that he left Michael’s side when he fell asleep and the effects of Propofol was gone way beyond 15 minutes?

I’m afraid that over here Murray is describing the process of how he killed Michael Jackson.

Let me explain.

Dr. Shafer proved to us that Murray gave Michael at least two bottles of Propofol 100ml each. This should have kept Michael under anesthesia for at least several hours if not the whole night.  His body was functioning as traces of propofol kept accumulating in his urine in quantities big enough to later betray to specialists the real amounts Murray gave to Michael that night.

The amount of propofol they found there showed that while Michael was getting those 200ml of propofol he was still alive.

But not until the moment he was to wake up.

The moment of controlled waking up from anesthesia is no less important than the whole period while the patient is under it. Every person who underwent anesthesia knows that the surgery is not over until after the anesthesiologist makes sure that the anesthetic is gone and the patient is conscious, fully awake, is able to talk and sometimes even to get up.

In short they never allow the patient to go on “sleeping” after the operation is over – even if they know that the patient did not sleep the whole previous night due to pain, worry or agitation.

Why do they never allow the patient to go on “sleeping”? Because sedation is a state which cannot gradually slide into a natural sleep on its own. These are different conditions, and the patient is to be first woken up from anesthesia and after the doctor makes sure that he is okay, he can sleep in his bed for as long as he likes. But not until after he comes out of anesthesia first.

All anesthesiologists who testified at Murray’s trial said that “bringing the patient back” is an obligatory part of their job. When Flanagan ventured a question why Murray couldn’t let the patient “go on sleeping if he was so desperate for sleep”, all doctors said that such a consideration was not even an issue – every patient should come to himself after anesthesia and if he does not wake up it is a case of grave emergency, an indication that something went wrong and that immediate resuscitation efforts should be made.

Flanagan insisted – and what if the patient did not sleep before that? Should the doctor wake him up even after only 15 minutes of anesthetic sleep?

The anesthesiologists replied that the period of sedation did not matter. Even if it was 5 minutes only, the wake-up procedure is an absolute must. They were so vehement about it that I remember Flanagan shutting up with his questions in some confusion.

But now I am beginning to recall all those Flanagan’s questions once again.

Conrad Murray was in the courtroom and also heard those answers of professional anesthesiologists like all of us did. So how can he say now that he left Michael’s bedside after the “effects of propofol were gone way beyond 15 minutes”? What does he mean by it?

Propofol works on the patient only while it is dripping into his body. When the propofol is gone its effect is also gone and the patient immediately wakes up. There might be a little lag between the last drop of propofol and the wake-up moment, but it can be 10 or 15 minutes at the most.

So after the last drop of propofol went into his system and the lag period also expired Michael Jackson was supposed to wake up and Conrad Murray was supposed to talk to him. And Murray does say that he waited for the effect of propofol to go for “way beyond 15 minutes” which means that he waited for Michael Jackson to wake up for more than 15 minutes after the last drop of Propofol entered his body.

However Murray does not say that after all that waiting Michael woke up. In fact we know for sure that Michael did not wake up because there is not a single instance suggesting it in any of the stories we have heard by now.

But despite the fact that Michael did not wake up Murray still left his bedside. He explained it by not wanting to disturb him:

  • “I moved from his bedside only so I do not disturb him, but this was a man after nine hours of no sleep umm I wanted him to get some rest if it was possible”.

So what did Murray do if we listen to his story?

He waited for some time for Michael to wake up, decided that Michael progressed from anesthesia to natural sleep, and left his side to let him “get some rest”.

And if he did that way this was the most ignorant, most unprofessional and most tragic thing to do.

Following Murray’s own version the events were to come in the following succession:

  • Murray watched the propofol to stop dripping
  • Then he waited for some time for Michael to wake up
  • Michael did not wake up though Murray waited “way beyond” 15 minutes within which time all propofol was to be out of Michael’s system
  • Michael was quiet and Murray decided that Michael proceeded to sleep in a natural way and left his bedside
  • And it never occurred to Conrad Murray that at that very moment Michael actually began dying.

During the trial Dr. Shaffer answered the question how the moment of Michael’s death would look like. He answered that the overall quantity of Propofol in Michael’s body would gradually build up to a dangerous level and at some point reach a threshold after which his breathing would stop.

He said that in the absence of equipment monitoring Michael’s breathing this stop could go unnoticed – especially if Conrad Murray was at some distance from his patient.

A very specific and totally heart-breaking point is that when Michael’s breathing stopped his heart would go on beating for approximately 10 more minutes. This usually happens due to the amount of oxygen still kept in the lungs.

If Murray had cast a glance at the pulse oximeter it would have shown him the pulse and the oxygen dropping in the blood. However I recall Alberto Alvarez testifying that he saw Murray clipping the pulse oximeter to Michael’s finger only when he was already in the room, so before that moment Murray had not been even using that device.

So in the absence of any heart monitor the most Murray could do was just feel Michael’s pulse by the hand.

What he would notice at that point was that the pulse was quicker than usual and Murray indeed spoke about something of the kind in his interview to the police. Dr. Shafer explained that this would be the reaction of the heart to the lack of oxygen in which the heart is forced to function when breathing stops. This agitation is the first signal it sends before it slows down and finally dies.

If Murray felt the pulse and its quickness satisfied him though his patient was already not breathing, in his utter ignorance he assumed that Michael’s anesthesia had progressed into a natural sleep and under that barbarian impression he left the room in order “not to disturb him” and “let him get some rest at last”.

Thus he left his patient to die and attended to his other urgent business – all those emails about the AEG insurance and the need to pacify his other patient who threatened to sue him for abandoning him after the operation.

What makes us think that this plain but utterly horrid scenario was a likely one?

Conrad Murray’s own words in his latest interviews.

Over there he lies about a “small dose” given to Michael that couldn’t have killed him, but this lie does not change the fundamental fact that after waiting for that dose to evaporate he did not wake his patient up and allowed him to “sleep”, not realizing that something terrible was already happening, his patient was not breathing and was on the verge of death.

In fact even now Conrad Murray does not understand the very basics of anesthesiology which say that every patient should be woken up even after the minimal of doses, and if he doesn’t wake up it means that he is dying. If Murray understood it he would not be speaking about it himself.

However Murray is an arrogant imbecile with a pathological love for himself, which prevented him from learning a little anesthesia at least during the trial when all those professional anesthesiologists were speaking.

Please look at his words again and you will see that what he essentially says is that though Michael did not wake up for 40 minutes from 10:40 to 11:20 (allegedly from a small dose of 2,5ml) Murray left his bedside and simply went away:

CM: There was no reason for me to attend to Mr. Jackson any further. Mr. Jackson was given a small dose of Propofol around 10:40 in the morning. I did not leave his bedside until about 11:20 – 11:25. The effects of Propofol are completely gone within 15 minutes of administration. He had no issues, I didn’t even expect Mr. Jackson to be sedated and to fall asleep with such a minuscule dose of Propofol. But in my absence, after leaving his bedside when the effects of Propofol was gone way beyond the 15 minutes, I was not on the phone you can also look at the phone records that they gave me. The last phone call I made ended was at 10:43. At 11:07 there was a one minute call that came in that was a voice mail call and the next time I used my phone was 11:20 – 11:25, I moved from his bedside only so I do not disturb him, but this was a man after nine hours of no sleep umm I wanted him to get some rest if it was possible.

Someone should tell Murray that the effects of Propofol are completly gone when the patient wakes up and not when the bottle is empty and he waits 15 minutes after that and thinks that the patient “has no issues”.

Murray thought that anesthesia progressed into a natural sleep, while in reality this is when Michael began to die and Murray didn’t notice it.

We also noticed it only four years later because this is when we finally understood it, but the so-called doctor Conrad Murray does not understand what he is saying even now!

The imbecile does not understand that this way he is telling us himself  that this is how he killed Michael Jackson.

109 Comments leave one →
  1. December 6, 2015 6:18 pm

    Murray will never get rid of the guilty verdict.He only got 2 years and should VERY thankful for this light sentence. The truth is as long as he does not get a medical licence ever
    he will not be a danger to society.

    Like

  2. February 19, 2014 3:34 pm

    The news is so good that I cannot resist reposting it here too – Conrad Murray’s appeal is denied!

    So all that sooth talk and pretence about how “caring” Murray was for Michael didn’t work. I am happy to hear that the judges turned out to be neither corrupt nor gullible. Well, it does revive some hope and belief in the US justice system after all! Congratulations guys!

    Michael Jackson – Conrad Murray Denied Rehearing In Appeal Case
    by WENN | 14 February 2014

    Michael Jackson’s former doctor Conrad Murrayhas been denied the chance to pursue an appeal of his involuntary manslaughter conviction.
    The medic was found guilty of causing the popstar’s 2009 death and served almost two years behind bars. Following his release from jail in October (13), he attempted to clear his name by appealing his conviction.

    However, officials at a District Court of Appeal in California rejected his claim last month (Jan14), and now they have made it clear he will not be able to pursue the case any further by rejecting his request to take his appeal to the state’s Supreme Court.

    In the ruling, obtained by Billboard.com, officials concluded, “Appellant’s petition for rehearing is denied.”

    Murray was convicted of involuntary manslaughter in 2011 following Jackson’s death from a lethal dose of the anaesthetic propofol.

    http://www.contactmusic.com/story/conrad-murray-denied-rehearing-in-appeal-case_4066921

    Like

  3. JanCorey permalink
    December 18, 2013 6:08 pm

    I agree with you, you do appear to hate MJ.

    Like

  4. JanCorey permalink
    December 18, 2013 6:06 pm

    Not desperate for attention as you so wrongly claim, just an avid admirer of MJ.

    Like

  5. December 14, 2013 4:56 pm

    “Is there any way your site can widely publish the true autopsy report that is on the Smoking Gun site ahead of the program” – Marsha

    Marsha, I have found the variant of the autopsy report which can be embedded in the post. You can find the full document embedded in part 3 of the series about Conrad Murray: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/conrad-murray-the-man-who-killed-michael-jackson-part-3-on-how-not-to-do-it/

    P.S. SORRY, said it too soon! They display only the first two pages and the rest seems to be on a paying basis. So I placed there just a pdf version of the autopsy report: http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Celebs/jackson,%20michael_report.pdf

    Like

  6. Marsha permalink
    December 14, 2013 12:51 pm

    But u do not need a medical back ground to count the no. meds or to see where the arthritis was and if it was wide spread. Items which have clearly been exaggerated. nor do you need a medical background to understansddthat his liver was in great shape as well as his heart.. And also the program could doctor or manipulate words and numbers therefore I think that the official report and findings should be spread as widely and loudly as possible. Where everyone, those with med. backgrounds and those without can see the truth for themselves and inquire and demand accuracy and truth. If they are going to spread lies then we should spread the truth even concerning the autopsy. if there was no negative profit or any negative to be earned by this they would not waste their time in showing it. Therefore they must anticipate great neg. gain against Michael and his legacy. O, and the real autopsy may be revealed to some but not to all. It is like What Charles Thomson said about The World Music Awards. The media was there but they reported a a fabricated story one in which Michael was booed. When in actuality they cheered their heads off for him. People who were not there believed the story, they could do the same with the autopsy report. if it is not “Revealed” to the public at large. Maybe it is just me I am quite offended by this program. they tried to do it in America but it was foiled. I see that also they have not said they would do John Lennon or Princess Diana etc.

    Like

  7. December 14, 2013 11:33 am

    It is always helpful to look up the original sources.

    Now that I’ve checked up the autopsy report again I need to make one correction which is absolutely not in favor of Murray.

    The quantity of urine (550ml) we used for calculating the Propofol fed to Michael that night was found in the bladder alone. So the estimation of 206 ml of Propofol was made on the concentration of propofol solely on that portion of the urine collected. Over there the concentration was 0,15mcg per ml.

    But a slightly lower concentration of Propofol (<0,10 mcg per ml) was also found in the jug on the scene – and this amount was NOT included in the 206 ml calculation and should be ADDED there.

    And how much bigger will the volume of Propofol be calculated if we also include there the urine Murray disposed of in the morning?

    Here is the respective piece from the autopsy report:

    Part 3 of the series has been now corrected with this information.

    Like

  8. December 14, 2013 10:43 am

    “with the revealing of the true autopsy, those who love and care about Michael will be able to refute the “interpretations”.” – Marsha

    Marsha, but the true autopsy does not need to be revealed. It is all there for everyone to see: http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Celebs/jackson,%20michael_report.pdf

    However I am not sure that the people with no medical education will be able to refute the arguments of the media which is already screaming on every corner that “he had a cocktail of drugs in his system”.

    The word “cocktail” alone implies that the person took all of it by himself, while in Michael’s case the only remedy he wanted was propofol as a sleep aid (given in a proper way). All the other drugs – those three benzodiazepines, for example – were imposed on him by Murray. They were not Michael’s choice and the autopsy alone will not be able to say it.

    All the people will see is this:

    and these marks all over the body:

    Here is a fragment of the same autopsy report with a couple of my notes:

    Like

  9. Marsha permalink
    December 14, 2013 10:17 am

    I understand your position, but with the revealing of the true autopsy, those who love and care about Michael will be able to refute the “interpretations”. For instance in the summary they say that he was riddled with arthritis which is not quite true. According to the autopsy there was minimal arthritis in his lower spine,and it was found in his lower back and also in one pat of his rt rib. It was also found in some part of his fingers. I would not consider this “riddled” with arthritis. And there is no proof that he was caused any discomfort from arthritis. He was fifty plus some arthritis would not be unusual. In fact with his profession I would have expected to find arthritis in many more parts of his body. Also as to the no. of drugs found in his system there were seven found two of which can seen to have been used in resuscitation efforts Epineprine and Lidicaine (not counting the amt of lidocaine given by Murray although if the source was from Murray it could give more proof that there was a Drip). Valiun / Diazepam and Norsdiazepam are the same drug , Nordiazepam is the by product of valium. So that leaves essentially three meds. aside from Propofol. Ativan, Valium and versed.None of which were found in great quantities especially when you take into account the half life of the drugs (time it takes for half of the drug to clear body) if you do an autopsy on the ave. nursing home patient you will probably find many more drugs there and in higher quantities. Also this data in no way shows any problems with the medications as claimed in the summary of the T.V program. And the autopsy itself shows no indication either, as his liver and heart were fine. Other lies can also be refuted with the autospy.

    Like

  10. December 14, 2013 5:30 am

    “Is there any way your site can widely publish the true autopsy report that is on the Smoking Gun site ahead of the program that is to be aired in England In January. So that the lies and exaggerations can be seen for what they truly are.” – Marsha

    Marsha, I think the program to be aired in England early next year will show the true autopsy report and it is only the interpretation of it which may be untrue. What can an autopsy report say? Only that so many needle marks were found on the body and how much of this or that drug was there.

    But the autopsy report will never tell you how those needle marks occurred and how all that medication found its way into the body. This is where the problem is – the report itself will not tell you the whole or even part of the story.

    However I will probably place the full autopsy report here when I’m finished with this series about Conrad Murray. This series is meant to tell you what the autopsy will not.

    Sorry to everybody for not answering earlier (you can’t imagine how busy I was).

    Like

  11. Marsha permalink
    December 11, 2013 5:36 pm

    Is there any way your site can widely publish the true autopsy report that is on the Smoking Gun site ahead of the program that is to be aired in England In January. So that the lies and exaggerations can be seen for what they truly are. I have a real problem with this program. And think it is the height of respect of anyone let alone Michael and the others that they plan to cover.

    Like

  12. December 11, 2013 1:42 pm

    “Are you on psychotropic medications Marsha? Might want to check with your doctor(s). Have a blessed day.” – JanCorey

    JanCorey, I see that you so desperate for attention that have begun to insult others and make highly personal comments to humiliate people. In accordance with Rule #4 of this blog I will ban you (again). I think this is not the first time, is it?

    Like

  13. JanCorey permalink
    December 11, 2013 10:31 am

    I agree with you Marsha that you severely appear to absolutely hate MJ. I do not, nor do his fans that visit this site looking for informative information about our beloved genius and hero. There are facts you still refuse to consider and why you continue to attack MJ is anyone’s guess. Are you on psychotropic medications Marsha? Might want to check with your doctor(s). Have a blessed day.

    Like

  14. December 11, 2013 9:28 am

    Susanne: Thank you for your understanding.

    Marsha: As you can see a discussion with JanCorey is fruitless. We have some trolls who come here regularly to provoke and who cannot be talked to in a reasonable way. They love to get you embroiled in their nonsense. That’s why I recommended not to respond. This kind of bickering back and forth just distracts from the real purpose of the posts.

    Like

  15. Marsha permalink
    December 11, 2013 8:36 am

    How does my not agree with your unfounded facts mean that I hate MJ It seems to me that there is more evidence that you are the one that hates him, love covers and edifies none of which any of your statements has done. Is that the only aspect of his life that you can think about and talk about ? What about his kindness genius and generosity, his forgiveness, love etc. You need to widen your horizons.

    Like

  16. JanCorey permalink
    December 10, 2013 7:41 pm

    Not full of nonsense, just facts, Marsha. Why you appear to hate MJ just because he was a drug addict makes no sense at all, at least to those who still love and miss MJ.

    Like

  17. Marsha permalink
    December 10, 2013 5:57 pm

    O my, you are just so full of nonsense it is unbelievable. So he at one time said something about having a problem, which was years ago. According to the autopsy which you refuse to read because it would prove you wrong, there is no proof whatsoever that he still had such problems. And just how am I dishonoring Michael by refuting your nonsense. I think that it is you that dishonors him and I think that everyone that truly loves Michael will agree with me esp. on this site. Why do you insist on posting on this site. esp. since you have nothing new to say and you seem to want to vindicate “Dr. Murray”. why not start your site where you can give Murray all the accolades you want.

    Like

  18. JanCorey permalink
    December 10, 2013 5:29 pm

    Marsha, my premise remains correct and MJ said he was an addict and I believe him. Why you are so adamant to dishonor MJ is anyone’s guess, I believe it is simply because you are some troll-type insistent that MJ was wrong and I just don’t agree with you Marsha nor does anyone here that loves MJ.

    Like

  19. December 10, 2013 5:00 pm

    Dear Helena. When I said ‘this does not exonerate Conrad Murray from his very suspicious actions whatever amount he gave’, I was unsure about the amount of Propofol, but now, thanks to your explanation, which I have re-read and recalculated the figures, I now understand that it was 206 mls. which must have been given through a drip. Sorry if I caused any annoyance.
    I wonder if Jan Corey is one of the jurors affiliated to AEG? We should not let him/her provoke or sway us.

    Like

  20. Susanne permalink
    December 10, 2013 12:37 pm

    Susannerb, I didn’t know about the rules. I’m sorry about that. I’ve just read rule number 1 and it make sense. I would never intentionally do.anything to harm MJ. My apologies to Helena, Susannerb, all the readers of this blog and last but not least our beloved MJ.

    Like

  21. Marsha permalink
    December 10, 2013 10:18 am

    Were u speaking to Marsha or JanCorey ? If Marsha why is the word still in posts by JanCorey if you are speaking of the A. word. Just confused, not trying to be contentious.

    Like

  22. Marsha permalink
    December 10, 2013 10:10 am

    Where are your facts? You have none except hearsay. And evidently do not even want to read the the facts presented by the autospy. And I will have a blessed day. And if you really know the meaning of blessing then you would refrain from the things you insist on saying every single post.

    Like

  23. Marsha permalink
    December 10, 2013 10:03 am

    Was you statement about me breathing for Michael suppose to make me cry. Well it does not it only shows that u do not know what you are talking about. One would have to be in the same time at the same place in order to do that I was not, bur Murray was. and he failed to do so. When one stops breathing from diprivan you need someone or something to breath for you.

    Like

  24. Marsha permalink
    December 10, 2013 9:58 am

    If your premise were true he would not have been in jail, in the first place.You wax worse and worse.Who are the people that knew him well that you are referring to? Surly you do not mean you, Dr. Murray, Randy Phillips etc. heck even that one whose name shall not be named did not even state that he was in such a state, and he spent more time with Michael while he was awake and not sleeping than any of his so called friends probably did esp. more than Murray.

    Like

  25. JanCorey permalink
    December 10, 2013 9:37 am

    I don’t believe there is any guilt, Marsha, the doctor is free because of the lack of facts needed to hold him for a murder that never happened, simple as that, regardless of the truth about what a great MJ really was and will always remain to people who really knew him well.

    Pure speculation, maybe you should have breathed for MJ then he would be alive today. Your failures are then why MJ is dead now according to your point of view.

    Addicts kill themselves all the time, try using facts instead of your confusions on the Law. Have a blessed day Marsha and remember MJ always.

    Like

  26. Marsha permalink
    December 10, 2013 8:19 am

    Well that shows your limited scope of experience. I have known and do know lots of people that been delivered/ kicked these problems and have never looked back. even after decades. Mankind says you are always a certain way but with God all things are possible, and he can make you anew inside and out. Hence the autopsy did not show evidence of damage from such a condition Since Michael was quite spiritual he probably asked for help from God and did receive help from God concerning such things. My question to you is since you claim to love Michael’s music and miss his so much why do you find it necessary to keep posting about this supposed unproved cond. how does it profit or benefit Michael or his legacy? Maybe you should concentrate on your own motes and make the world a better place by doing so.

    Like

  27. Marsha permalink
    December 10, 2013 8:00 am

    If Dr. Murray had just breathed for him Michael would be alive.

    Like

  28. Marsha permalink
    December 10, 2013 7:57 am

    The Dr. is free because of the overcrowding of California jails, not because of his lack of guilt. and in fact he probably would have been given more time by the judge if the overcrowding of the jails were not an issue. I see that you do not understand the autopsy report. Or have you just not bothered to read it, or have you chose ignore it.

    Like

  29. JanCorey permalink
    December 9, 2013 10:12 pm

    Marsha, you are right, MJ killed himself as drug addicts often do. MJ will still be missed, at least by me.

    Facts always prevail, even if a person doesn’t understand the facts. MJ was a drug addict, he even said he was, and he died as a result of his addiction, that’s why the doc is free already and the family lost the billion-dollar lawsuit.

    I agree with you, MJ was a drug addict and died as a result of him being a drug addict. If he didn’t ever want Propathol, MJ would be alive today.

    Addictions are never cured, any addict that tells you they are no longer an addict is fooling you. Don’t be so gullible, addicts will always remain addicts like alcoholics will always remain alcoholics, at least according to the Experts and the facts.

    Like

  30. susannerb permalink*
    December 9, 2013 2:25 pm

    Susanne, I need to make you aware that we have some special rules on this blog. Regarding your post rule no. 1 is particularly important, I kindly ask you to read it (see above under “Rules”). I therefore allowed myself to edit the word you used in connection with Michael’s name.

    Like

  31. Marsha permalink
    December 9, 2013 1:46 pm

    yes and he was delivered from/kicked. that addiction. Don’t believe the lie or myth that once addicted always addicted, because it is not true, and I believe it was morphine that he was addicted to, which I do not believe was found in the autopsy.

    Like

  32. Marsha permalink
    December 9, 2013 1:34 pm

    O so now u can predict futures, The drugs that he had been addicted to before did not kill him it was an un-monitored dose of Diprivan. If the Dr. had truly tried to help him sleep which ,was the problem not addiction, e would have investigated more alternativievs perhaps , that is if he really cared. But he did not hence he gave the Diprivan without monitoring. and as to your other comments about drug addicts ,are you speaking from experience.

    Like

  33. JanCorey permalink
    December 9, 2013 1:33 pm

    Marsha, I am not arguing anything. However, I do believe the facts of MJ’s history, and I believe MJ when he stated he became addicted to drugs after the commercial hair-fire for pain-management. I believe MJ over any disbelievers and I also believe MJ was, while a drug addict, was one of the greatest musical geniuses we have had the fortune to witness.

    Like

  34. Marsha permalink
    December 9, 2013 1:26 pm

    If facts prevail, then u must be ignoring them. There was no proof giving that Michael was a drug addict at the time of his death. The autopsy proved it. The only drug in large amounts was diprivan, the other drugs given to him by the”Dr.” which he did not request were found in small amounts or were in therapeutic levels, where is your proof of addiction to any drugs, given that diprivan is not physically addicting? And no matter what Michael was or was not the Dr. is still required to be true to his oath.

    Like

  35. Susanne permalink
    December 8, 2013 2:28 pm

    Diane Diamond, is she for real? She makes me speechless but not in a positive way. She’s unbelievable! Still trashing MJ and feel the need to imply that he was indeed a pxxxxxxx. No wonder she was on MJ’s blacklist.

    http://www.noozhawk.com/article/diane_dimond_life_after_a_tabloid_scandal_20131207#.UqTD9ZG3PFq

    Like

  36. December 7, 2013 7:36 am

    I would like to add- Jan Corey- if you look up any of the interviews given by different people who had interacted with Michael on a daily basis- NONE of them had any proof that they had seen Michael take any form of drugs. All of them- ranging from Lisa Marie Presley, to Michael’s bodyguards, to Karen Faye and Katherine Jackson, said that they had NEVER seen MJ take any drugs and have found NO evidence of him taking drugs. So MJ’s ‘prolonged history of drug addiction’ does not come from ‘experts’ but are based on heresay fanned by the media for obvious reasons

    Like

  37. December 7, 2013 7:26 am

    Yes Susanne, you are absolutely right- God does act in mysterious ways and when He takes it upon Himself to vindicate as a pure a soul as Michael’s, then nothing and no one can stop it from happening. Conrad Murray is cutting a very poor image of himself in the course of these interviews. Randy Phillips and Martin Bashir have had to resign from their jobs and I am sure that this is just the beginning. Thanks Helen-Marie for coming out in defense of Marsha. I see that we have been warned not to pay heed to Jan Corey, but sorry I cannot help but state a few things about her posts. Jan Corey, from your comment that you keep missing Michael’s music- I gather that you do appreciate Michael as a musical genius but is simply deluded that he was a drug addict. Since you do visit this blog, please read through some of the write ups here which clearly prove that Michael Jackson was NOT a drug addict. He had suffered severe second and third degree burns in the course of the Pepsi commercial shoots, when the doctors had first prescribed him painkillers. Contrary to what you and many of the likes of you think, Michael had refused to take ant pain killers at all as he was aware of the dependency that these drugs cause in a vast majority of people. But despite his unwillingness, he was compelled to take painkillers. He did develop a dependency on Demerol- which most people do, and something which Michael had perhaps anticipated. However he declared before the world of this dependency and then went to a rehab to get over it. You will even find this video on You Tube.
    There is a very fine line of distinction between an ‘addict’ and a ‘dependent’. No actual drug addict would go to a rehab willingly. If you got through the testimonies given by some of the doctors who had treated Michael in the course of the AEG trial, you will see quite clearly that they have stated that Michael NEVER asked for any prescription drugs. In fact he kept pleading with the doctors not to administer him Demerol.
    As testified by Debbie Rowe, these money hungry doctors did just that- administered him addictive medicines so that they could mint money off him. Hence the media’s constant rant that Michael had a prolonged history of addiction is totally false. And this is being sated the zillionth time that Michael’s autopsy report did NOT have any recreational drugs. As Helena has stated, Michael was NOT and addict but an insomniac. He sought after Propofol to help him sleep. He was made to believe that the drug actually helps sleep- by a tour doctor in Germany back in the 1990’s.

    Like

  38. Susanne permalink
    December 6, 2013 8:01 pm

    “These Journalists and Murray following them are ready to make innuendos out of thin air. What a disgusting profession it turned into.” Vindicatemj (Helena)

    The funny thing about it is that the more crap they throw at MJ the purer he becomes. God works in mysterious ways.

    Like

  39. JanCorey permalink
    December 6, 2013 5:46 pm

    If MJ was forced to get the help he needed back then, he would be alive today and would have done his final tour. Addicts are very controlling and manipulative.

    Like

  40. JanCorey permalink
    December 6, 2013 5:44 pm

    MJ was a drug addict who killed himself after he paid Murray to help him. End of story Marshhead, with all due respects. Facts prevail.

    Like

  41. Marsha permalink
    December 6, 2013 8:33 am

    I see you do not seem to know much about the medical field., one can pick a Dr. that seems to be competent only to find out that he is not. Hence we have malpractice suits. Also let me ask you this? Say you are driving in a car and have an accident and there is a Dr that come to your aid. He looks at you, sees you are not breathing and just stands there watching you, and you die. Later it is determined that you could have been saved if CPR had been given and given correctly. Who would be to blame you or the Dr? The fact that Michael picked the Dr. Has no bearing on this case. It is still the Dr. responsibility to perform his duties according to his oath. As for me be responsible for his death well this in line we your other illogical and unfounded statements.

    Like

  42. Helen-Marie permalink
    December 6, 2013 7:42 am

    DEAR JAN COREY,

    With all due respect,

    I know it’s been said to ignore you on this blog and my goodness I have tried, but I cannot bear to read any more of your ridiculous, ill informed statements and not make comment.

    In my opinion the last post you made to MARSHA pushed the boundaries of provocation beyond the acceptable.

    PART OF QUOTE: (Jan Corey, December 6, 2013, 2.06am)
    “He was MJ’s doctor because MJ hired the doctor to be his doctor and I see you did absolutely nothing on your part to intervene on MJ’s choice for his own persona physician. Maybe you are part of the reasons MJ is no longer here, who knows, but I suspect it was MJ himself who is mostly responsible for his loss of life through his addictions and his drug abuse history”.

    There are two parts of your comment that were particularly damming to Marsha and that I personally found unacceptable;

    “I SEE YOU DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ON YOUR PART TO INTERVENE”

    “MAYBE YOU ARE PART OF THE REASONS MJ IS NO LONGER HERE”

    To sit anonymously behind a screen and throw accusations of this nature towards another in less you have solid evidence to prove it is wrong. So please enlighten us to the factual evidence you hold to substantiate these claims.

    As my own father used to say, “If you haven’t anything good to say, don’t say anything at all”. Your quote is morally wrong and the type of behaviour Michael had to endure all his life. There are boundaries in life we all must follow and respect should always be paramount and to come here on Helena’s blog and play childish games is deplorable.

    As for your quote;
    “I have not seen even a single lie spoken by CM, not a one”
    Jan Corey, dated December 1, 2013 11:25 pm

    “NOT ONE” ! I suggest like others here you read through the transcripts of both trials and see what an absolutely ridiculous blinkered comment this is.

    I do hope you will step onto moral high ground soon and stop yourself from anymore antagonistic behaviour, it’s such a waste of energy for everyone concerned, me included.

    Note to Helena,
    I am sorry that I had to respond to Jan Corey, but I felt this was over stepping the mark. This is a well respected and followed blog and for this person to make a mockery out of it taints it. The accusations towards MARSHA are unacceptable and I felt they needed to be addressed by someone they had upset.

    Like

  43. JanCorey permalink
    December 6, 2013 2:06 am

    Marsha, doesn’t matter if the doctor ever lied, matters not one sintella. He was MJ’s doctor because MJ hired the doctor to be his doctor and I see you did absolutely nothing on your part to intervene on MJ’s choice for his own persona physician. Maybe you are part of the reasons MJ is no longer here, who knows, but I suspect it was MJ himself who is mostly responsible for his loss of life through his addictions and his drug abuse history. Just a thought. There is not a day that goes by that I do mot miss MJ, he truly was a master of music and will be missed by millions.

    Like

  44. Linda permalink
    December 6, 2013 1:06 am

    No wonder this idiot didn’t open his mouth at his trial. Hard to believe Michael is talking to him after being killed by him. Actually, hard to believe anyone can say the stupid things he is saying and expect people to believe him.

    It’s pretty obvious he has book plans, just from the way he said he’s not ready to reveal whether MJ was a Ped, not yet, anyway. I sure hope people aren’t dumb enough to buy his book just out of curiosity. If they do, they will still be putting money in his pocket, and his pay for killing Michael will just get higher.

    I literally felt sick listening to that interview and watching his smug face and how much he loved Michael. How many times he said that like he’s trying to convince us all. It didn’t work. He just came off as a cold killer and a liar. I know I’m venting, but this really pissed me off, plus thinking he might actually make more money from this is infuriating when he was so obviously proved guilty. Even the judge was so mad I believe he would have given him life if he could. Too bad he couldn’t. I think he plans on doing Michael even more damage than the media has. I pray his kids are strong enough to handle what’s coming.

    Like

  45. Marsha permalink
    December 6, 2013 12:01 am

    So if I am rich and I hire a doctor to be with me constantly, which Murray was not with him constantly. That makes me a drug addict? It was the Dr. that wanted to give the drugs that were addicting Michael wanted propofol which is not physically addicting and would have been manageable if the Dr, had done what he needed to do in administering it.

    Like

  46. Marsha permalink
    December 5, 2013 11:51 pm

    If he gave only 2.5mg Michael would have only slept for perhaps five min. so what would have been the point of giving that amount. And then to leave when you knew he would be waking up very soon shows bad medical care to either way does not help Murray

    Like

  47. Marsha permalink
    December 5, 2013 11:32 pm

    There being a drip is the only logical way to explain the large amount of propofol in Michaels system, As to why he would not admit to it, perhaps because it proves he was out of the room far longer than he claims.

    Like

  48. Marsha permalink
    December 5, 2013 11:22 pm

    I wonder what universe you live in to say that Murray has not lied. He lied about how long he was away from his patient, He lied about Michael giving himself the injection because Michael would have had to withdraw and inject numerous times in order to get the high level found in the autopsy therefore there must have been a drip. he lied about the great friendship that developed between Michael and him. If Michael was at rehearsals during the daytime and into the late evenings and when he returned home he was sedated by Murray. for 4-8 hours how in the world would he have had time, or the opportunity to develop such an intense relationship.He lied by omission when he did not tell the EMS or doctors that he had given him Propofol . As for your comment about having being a drug addict a crime that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of, Number one propofol is not illegal, secondly you can become addicted to the drugs that doctors prescribe after one dose. Doctors know how addictive these drugs can be, thirdly he was not addicted he needed help to sleep. The crime and fault is that Dr. Murray overstepped his boundaries. and did not do what he should have, like perform proper CPR or use a simple AMBU bag to breath for Michael, but if You are not around when your patient stops breathing well……

    Like

  49. JanCorey permalink
    December 5, 2013 8:58 pm

    You are right Helena, right on track as always. But, MJ is the one who hired Conrad and it is MJ that wanted Conrad by his side all the time which is exactly what drug addicts like MJ typically do. Conrad may have been guilty of some degree of negligence but certainly MJ is the one who ever so slowly was killing himself for years.

    Like

  50. December 5, 2013 11:58 am

    “Maybe, just maybe, if the Laws are changed to make it a crime to become a drug addict, then maybe the death of MJ would have either not happened or it would have forced MJ to get him the help he so desperately needed. Any thoughts on that?” – JanCorey

    My first thought is that there was no need to force Michael to get him the help he so desperately needed. He himself eagerly looked for this help, only no one gave it to him. The glorious medicine only shrugged shoulders at seeing so grave an insomnia and AEG refused to help even when he was obviously dying.

    My second thought is that it is not a crime to be an insomniac.

    My third thought is that if Law had been functioning properly the people who didn’t give help to a dying man would have answered for it and would have not got away with their crime.

    And my fourth thought is that life is short and wasting it on silliness is a big mistake.

    Like

  51. December 5, 2013 8:03 am

    “Joseph Jackson’s lawsuit makes reference to this”.- Lopsided man

    Yes, I remember that. But I am surprised that at the AEG trial the lawyers did not produce the version of Murray’s contract without a reference to Michael’s consent to paying Murray. It was either a big oversight on their part or they didn’t have it. So unless we have the original version without this point we cannot refer to it as a proven fact. Hypothesis – yes, and a very sound one too.

    Subsequent to that article, you laid out the arguments for both the drip vs syringe theories in the comments section last April: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2013/04/03/thomas-mesereau-in-an-interview-with-piers-morgan-on-the-aeg-trial/

    I explore all possibilities. If you look at the picture once again you will see that Propofol could flow via two routes – from the bottle in the bag, from a syringe or from BOTH.

    Hypothesis No.1: Propofol is given by a syringe and there was no second tubing at all.

    Possible? Possible but to be able to reach the level of Propofol in MJ’s blood one had to make at least 20 undiluted 10cc syringe injections or 40 injections of Propofol diluted with Lidocaine. This hypothesis is ruled out as absurd.

    Hypothesis No.2: Propofol went from the bottle in the bag and the tubing was missing on the scene of crime because Murray hid it.

    Possible? Absolutely. It would explain the high level of Propofol in the blood and urine, and Murray was seen by Alvarez disattaching the tubing from MJ’s knee. This is when he could put part of it into his pocket. The bottle in the bag he could not hide in a pocket, so he put it in a bag which he hoped to retrieve later. This is why he wanted to return to Michael’s house after the hospital.

    The hypothesis is absolutely valid and was used as the main one at the trial.

    Hypothesis No.3: Murray puts MJ under a drip and goes away. Someone in his absence comes up, claps the tubing to stop the flow from the bottle, pushes a syringe or two into a side port instantaneously raising the level of propofol in the blood to a lethal level, then unclaps the tubing again and it continues to drip.

    Possible? Theoretically yes, but if someone else entered the room it was easier for this person to open the clap on the tubing to let Propofol flow freely from the bottle (and raising it to a lethal level this way) and then bring it back to the old dripping mode so that Murray does not notice it.

    This hypothesis will work only in case of a murder scenario, committed by someone else (or Murray?). To prove it we need other evidence testifying to the same. At the moment this evidence is scarce though there are some clues, for example, the fact that Murray’s girlfriend Alde Salding heard several voices in the room when she was on the phone with him (TV?)

    Hypothesis No.4: MJ himself put the bottle in the bag and unclapped the tubing.

    Possible? Absolutely not.

    Firstly, he received not one but more than two bottles that night (judging by the quantity of propofol in his urine). After the first he would wake up, relieve himself into a jug and walk with all that tubing and IV stand attached to him into the side-room to get the second bottle? If someone with a vivid fantasy says that it is possible, here comes the second factor.

    The second factor is that there were no MJ’s fingerprints anywhere on those bottles, syringes, etc. It is crazy to assume that he would put rubber gloves in order to make a slit in the bag, put a bottle there, then unclap the tubing and adjust the drip (difficult job), then lie on the bed and still have time to take the rubber gloves off – though Propofol works almost instantaneously!

    So out of these four scenarios hypothesis No.2 is the only realistic and rock solid one, hypothesis No.3 is technically possible but needs proof, while No.1 and No. 4 are even theoretically impossible.

    Like

  52. December 5, 2013 6:51 am

    “I am sorry for my lack of posting of late.I have myself undergone surgery and am tired anxious and all that.-rkatarina

    Katarina, I presume that you are Kaarin but again having problems with your password and writing in the blog? And you had surgery too, oh my God! This world is full of so much pain… I am sorry dear, but hope you will recover soon. Why do people have to suffer so much? Michael went through extreme suffering himself and this is why he understood other people’s pain so well. And the first thing he did when he arrived somewhere was going to a hospital to comfort sick children and bring them a little joy.

    If he were here among us we could always put our head on his shoulder and seek solace in his embrace. He would understand because he went through so much more of it himself.

    “There was a good point though, not checking on the uncoscious Micicael after waiting 2 or as he at times states 15 minutes. You never leave an uncoscious patient. The whole story seems much more complicated and ugly at this time.”

    The story is very complicated because Murray is telling a lot of lies and we have to pull through them as if through the jungles. You follow his lead and cut your path and at the end of the road once again realize that he sent you in the wrong direction.

    But what I want to say is that even when we listen to his “best” story (he gave only 2,5ml, then waited and then left Michael’s side), it is still no good for him because a doctor should not leave the patient’s side after giving an anesthetic.

    So it does not really matter whether the story is true or false. Even if it is true it still makes him guilty like hell.

    Like

  53. Lopsided Man permalink
    December 5, 2013 5:51 am

    “The fact that a requirement for Michael’s signature was added to Murray’s contract at the final stage only is most probably correct, only up till now we do not have proof of it. If we could only have the original version of Murray’s contract without a reference to Michael’s name it would be a great breakthrough”. – Vindicatemj (Helena)

    Joseph Jackson’s lawsuit makes reference to this.
    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/conrad-murray-and-aeg-in-michael-jacksons-life/

    “The short of Dr.Shafer’s testimony is in my old post here:
    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/conrad-murray-trial-week-4/” – Vindicatemj (Helena)

    Subsequent to that article, you laid out the arguments for both the drip vs syringe theories in the comments section last April:

    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2013/04/03/thomas-mesereau-in-an-interview-with-piers-morgan-on-the-aeg-trial/

    “In fact it was much easier to murder by turning the roller clap on the drip of Propofol, let it stream freely for some time, and then return it back to the original position. It could be done even while Murray was away. He would not notice a thing.” – Vindicatemj (Helena)

    But in terms of Murray’s defense, it was just as easy, and much better for him and his attorneys to claim that Michael simply opened the clamp on the IV stand to release the Propofol. My point is, Conrad Murray stealing the long tubing wasn’t necessary for his defense. It makes even less sense when you consider that on that day, Murray had waited for Alberto Alvarez to come to Michael’s room to remove the slit saline bag from the IV stand. In terms of “smoking gun” evidence, the long tubing is rather innocuous in comparison to the slit bag, right? And the scene was hardly “cleaned up by the time the EMT’s arrived.

    And remember Ed Chernoff’s question to Alberto Alvarez? Does it make sense that Murray would call Alberto Alvarez – someone he didn’t know well, to help in a cover-up of evidence in Michael’s death? Judge Pastor refused to let him answer. It remains unanswered.

    “But how can it be proved; what can be done?” – Nina Hamilton

    You’ve brought up important questions. You can also add Conrad Murray’s failure to keep medical records on Michael only AFTER he was hired by AEG. The cover-up of Michael’s actual contract with AEG. AEG’s attempted cover-up of Frank Dileo’s hard drive. The prosecution’s curious and repeated attempts to avoid discussing Murray’s second call to his assistant Stacey Ruggles at 11:07 AM (Read her criminal trial testimony, and remember what I’ve previously said about the importance of the 10:30 am 11:30 am time-frame). Innocent people don’t act like this.

    As to what can be done…..

    30 years ago, actress Natalie Wood died at the young age of 43 in an alleged drowning accident. There were always unanswered questions (bruises on her body, her lifelong fear of water, etc), and doubts about the investigation itself, about the real cause of her death. These pertinent questions were dismissed by critics who claimed she was just a drunk who simply fell into the water and drowned. While most of the public and the media moved on, a handful of writers like Marti Rulli, went on a crusade to challenge the official narrative, to get the truth out to the public. Finally, in large part because of those efforts, the Los Angeles Police Department has reopened the Natalie Wood death investigation as a homicide.

    Their work on that case can be a model for all of us going forward.
    http://martirulli.blogspot.ca/2013/07/july-20-2013-natalie-wood-would-have.html

    Hopefully it won’t take 30 years to get justice for Michael.

    The key is to never lose faith and remain active until we reach results.

    Like

  54. JanCorey permalink
    December 4, 2013 10:31 pm

    Maybe, just maybe, if the Laws are changed to make it a crime to become a drug addict, then maybe the death of MJ would have either not happened or it would have forced MJ to get him the help he so desperately needed. Any thoughts on that?

    Like

  55. December 4, 2013 6:33 pm

    I am sorry for my lack of posting of late.I have myself undergone surgery and am tired anxious and all that.- It is rerrible to have Murray come up with his lies again , he must be delusional.There was a good point though, not checking on the uncoscious Micicael after waiting 2 or as he at times states 15 minutes. You never leave an uncoscious patient.The whole story seems much more complicated and ugly at this time.

    Like

  56. December 4, 2013 4:53 pm

    “One thing that was annoying about the Australia 60 minutes interview was that they brought up the doll question. How dull was that.” – Susanne

    We can always rely on the media for taking out those dusty stories from their attics and place them in the center of attention again. I agree with our Susannerb – it was the main idea of the interview and the main bait for the viewers.

    In the meantime I looked up some photos and now am sure that the doll together with some racksack (or bag) were simply brought into Michael’s room, most probably by his children. These two items were put on the side of the bed where Michael was not sleeping and placed tidily together in the opposite direction from him.

    Any girl having dolls in her home will tell you that the doll should be near the pillow and not looking the other way:

    And this is Michael’s side:

    These journalists and Murray following them are ready to make innuendoes out of thin air. What a disgusting profession it turned into.

    Like

  57. susannerb permalink*
    December 4, 2013 3:15 pm

    Susanne, this is exactly how the media handles these kind of interviews, it’s nothing new and I don’t expect them changing their ways. They are interested in sensations, not in truth. That’s why they wanted an interview in the first place with this deplorable doctor, not because they wished to learn true facts.

    As my name is also Susanne, we already have been confused with each other. So I want to point out that my name as a poster is slightly different (susannerb)

    Like

  58. Susanne permalink
    December 4, 2013 12:54 pm

    One thing that was annoying about the Australia 60 minutes interview was that they brought up the doll question. How dull was that. They had the opportunity to ask Conrad Murray all kinds of questions and he is asked if MJ slept with dolls. I don’t believe that he slept with dolls. Who knows How the doll ended up in MJ’s bed. Maybe Paris dropped it in his room when she ran into his bedroom screaming and crying.

    MJ told Martin Bashir in “Living With Michael Jackson”.that he had the biggest doll collection. And MJ was laughing when he told Martin Bashir that fact . MJ was a collector as we all know. He collected all kinds of things from a huge green Hulk to antics, paintings and dolls. You name it he collected it. Nothing weird or strange about that.

    Like

  59. December 4, 2013 12:28 pm

    “I am having trouble with those figures as to the amount of Propofol given from your calculations. How many micrograms in a milligram? Is it a hundred or a thousand?” – Nina Hamilton

    Nina, here is the answer:

    Each milligram equals 1,000 micrograms
    http://www.ehow.com/how_8119230_convert-milligrams-micrograms.html

    Another difficulty is the correlation between milligrams and milliliters.
    In case of Propofol 1000mg are equal to 100ml, so when Murray claims he gave Michael only 25mg it means he gave him only 2,5ml (one fourth of a 10cc syringe). This quantity is barely noticeable in the syringe.

    Compare what he says with what he did and you will see that what he says should be multiplied by almost a hundred. He gave Michael more than 200ml.

    “However, this does not exonerate Conrad Murray from his very suspicious actions whatever amount he gave.”

    How can all that propofol given to Michael when Murray was not even looking exonerate him? This can only nail him down to his terrible guilt!

    Like

  60. December 4, 2013 12:16 pm

    “AEG only added Michael’s name to Murray’s contract 7 days before he died. They never sent it to Michael, or any of his “representatives” or assistant. Does this look like a mere oversight?” – Lopsided man

    The fact that a requirement for Michael’s signature was added to Murray’s contract at the final stage only is most probably correct, only up till now we do not have proof of it. If we could only have the original version of Murray’s contract without a reference to Michael’s name it would be a great breakthrough.

    Judging by what Tohme said to Sullivan Michael never agreed to pay Murray – from the very start of it Michael insisted that Murray was to be paid by AEG. So when AEG inserted into Murray’s contract the need for Michael’s consent to pay him it was another of their innumerable frauds.

    Like

  61. December 4, 2013 12:05 pm

    “It seems the defense & prosecution were each working at cross purposes here: Pumping 2 100 ml Propofol vials directly into Michael, then walking away, makes Michal’s homicide far more VOLUNTARY than the slit IV bag drip theory. Yet, Murray’s attorneys were working to undermine the slit bag theory.” – lopsided man

    Lopsided man, if I understood you right and you are thinking it was a murder, we needn’t discard the drip version. In fact it was much easier to murder by turning the roller clap on the drip of Propofol, let it stream freely for some time, and then return it back to the original position. It could be done even while Murray was away. He would not notice a thing.

    “Alvarez is a very tricky witness. He also testified that while he was talking to the 911 operator he helped move Michael’s body to the floor while he held the cell phone with his shoulder. That’s pretty specific.”

    I don’t remember that. Alvarez produced on me the impression of an honest witness.

    Like

  62. December 4, 2013 11:17 am

    “Walgren argued for the POSSIBILITY of the long tubing going into Murray’s pocket, because that’s what the case (involuntary manslaughter) rested on. It was never actually proven. In fact, the overall evidence re: the IV unit, suggests otherwise. The long tubing was there…it just tested negative for Propofol & Lidocaine.” – Lopsided man

    Lopsided man, what are talking about? Of course Dr. Shafer proved that there was propofol in the long tubing, only that tubing was gone.

    First of all there were two saline bags found – one was still hanging on the IV stand and the other saline bag was hidden by Murray and had a slit and an empty propofol bottle inside.

    The whole setup had an Y-form with two long tubes on the top and one short one at the bottom. The tubing that went from the saline bag hanging on the IV stand was clear of propofol. The other long tubing was gone. Propofol was found only in the short tubing.

    Dr. Shafer explained what happened and following his testimony I even made a picture of it (please note that the saline bag with an empty 100ml Propofol bottle was recovered from the scene of crime by police):

    The short of Dr.Shafer’s testimony is in my old post here: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/conrad-murray-trial-week-4/

    Dr. Shafer takes standard tubing (he wasn’t able to get the one shipped by Sea Coast) and shows an infusion port in the lower part of it where the syringe goes.

    The upper part of the tubing arrangement goes to the saline bag and a Propofol vial hanging on the top. The very end of the tubing goes into the body through the IV catheter which was below Michael’s knee.

    According to Murray this set-up was used by him for regular administration of Propofol by drip.

    Then Walgren shows two invoices for 150 pcs of infusion sets (people’s exhibit 220) from SeaCoast medicals records providing the picture of it. Walgren compares Dr. Shafer’s infusion set with the one used by Murray, which was cut for the purposes of toxicology. All its key parts are the same.

    Walgren says that the IV stand in Michael’s room had a saline bag with tubing attached to it. The upper tubing was clear of propofol, while the lower part tested positive for it. This could be the result of a syringe with 25mg of propofol being administered by Murray through a Y-connection.

    There was one more saline bag on the scene of the crime – an empty one with a slit on it which Murray hid into a bag. The tubing to it was never found (Walgren assumed that Murray had taken it away in his pocket). It should have been the same type as the tubing left hanging on the IV stand as it was shipped by the same company.

    Dr. Shafer begins his demonstration by attaching a catheter to the tubing and showing that the fluid from the saline bag on top of the IV stand is drifting freely from it. The saline bag is plastic and shrinks as the liquid flows from it.

    However with propofol it does not work that way. Propofol comes in glass bottles and therefore needs a vented infusion line which allows air to come into the bottle in replacement of the propofol coming out of it.

    Without the air going into the glass bottle propofol will not drip out as there will be a vacuum inside.

    Therefore the infusion set purchased by Conrad Murray for administering Propofol was different from the usual set – it had a small vent cap in it. When it is open the propofol flows freely down, when it is closed the propofol stops.

    This special tubing is meant to be used with an infusion pump and usually has a special device for attaching it.

    The Y-shape infusion port is in the middle of the tubing, approximately three feet from the catheter which was attached to Michael’s body. The bottom part is the shortest part of the tubing and is separated from the top and longer part of it by a clap (the clap is used for shutting off the infusion).

    Murray claimed that he clapped the tubing and slowly infused 25mg by a syringe into the middle port of it, so Dr. Shafer repeats his actions.

    He takes a 20cc=20ml syringe (Murray’s was 10cc), pierces the stopper of the 25mg vial, draws up the air into it and fills the syringe with one/tenth of it – 2.5ml of propofol (=25mg).

    Then Dr. Shafer injects this propofol into the port (wire connector) in the middle of the tubing and it flows down, and here we see that 2,5ml is so little a quantity that propofol does not even reach the end of the tubing and therefore does not reach the patient. Dr. Shafer demonstrated it:

    So the way Conrad Murray described the process the propofol should not have flown at all. It was to sit in the tubing until it was unclapped and the saline was allowed to push propofol to the patient.

    Dr. Shafer hangs the 100ml propofol bottle on the IV stand. Saline is also connected to the wire connector and Propofol starts competing with it. The lower the Saline bag is, the quicker the Propofol drips, and vice versa.

    We see that when the vent is opened propofol races down. When it reaches the end Dr. Shafer attaches a needle to it. The needle is then inserted into the wire connector in the middle of the tubing.

    Parallel to it is a saline bag which is also attached to the wire connector to allow propofol to flow freely.

    The arrangement has the form of a Y letter – the propofol and saline lines join each other at the wire connector and then turn into one common line.

    This arrangement is extremely unsafe as two fluids are competing with each other. The speed of the propofol drip depends on the relative height of the saline bag – if the saline bag is raised there will be more force on it and the speed of propofol will slow down and vice versa. The drip is fully dependent on gravity and may drip quicker or slower depending on the height and weight of the saline bag on the other side of the IV stand. This is why the infusion pump was a must.

    The only way to control the rate of propofol under this system is by using the roller claps (on the propofol line and on the saline line). The rate appropriate for sedation would be 12 seconds between each drop and Dr. Shafer tries to set this rhythm by means of a roller clap, but it is really difficult (another reason why the infusion pump was needed).

    If the roller clap is wide open propofol runs incredibly fast – like a stream.

    Walgren notes that in the arrangement shown by Dr. Shafer the top (long) part of the saline line remains clean, while the bottom part of it, beginning with the port where it is joined by propofol, has propofol in it.

    Then they talk about the recovered saline bag with a slit in it and a propofol bottle inside it. Dr. Shafer never saw that kind of an arrangement.
    But he puts the bottle inside the bag and we see that it stays in the same vertical position as it was before when it was hanging on its own.

    When all propofol flows down from the bottle and is finally empty, Dr. Shafer takes a spike out of it and disassembles the propofol line.
    Walgren notes that the tubing with propofol inside it fits into the palm of a hand and would easily fit into the pocket. It is indeed very small.

    Now the tubing left on the IV stand has a form of letter Y that has lost one of its lines on the top but retained its bottom line.
    The top part of the tubing is clean while the bottom part has propofol in it – and this is just the way it was found on the scene of the crime.

    Dr. Shafer explained it perfectly well.

    Like

  63. December 4, 2013 11:02 am

    I am so angry and frustrated that it seems nothing can be done to bring the guilty parties to book here. At least Katherine has filed papers for another trial to question AEG’s role in Michael’s death again. There are so many unanswered questions; why did the police wipe the CCTV tapes at Carolwood, and who was on them? Who are they trying to protect? Whose were the fingerprints on the bottles and vials? Why has there been no attempt to identify the owner/s? Why did the coroner’s forensic female officer behave in such an inefficient manner and overlook vital evidence?
    I read somewhere that the Los Angeles Police Dept, the Justice System, the political authorities, and AEG have close links; all in each others pockets in one huge corporate body.
    I am having trouble with those figures as to the amount of Propofol given from your calculations. How many micrograms in a milligram? Is it a hundred or a thousand? My number crunching has given me a headache!
    However, this does not exonerate Conrad Murray from his very suspicious actions whatever amount he gave. I can’t help but I feel too that AEG are very much behind everything, and could have been paying Murray to follow instructions. There seems to have been one hell of a clever cover up, every step of the way, right up to the jury verdict manipulation. Murray daren’t tell the whole truth out of fear because he knows what would happen to him.
    But how can it be proved; what can be done?

    Like

  64. Lopsided Man permalink
    December 4, 2013 4:58 am

    “I think he killed him on purpose because he is upset with him and with AEG because his $150,000 was going to be dream not real, and he felt he is used with no pay by MJ or AEG while he closed all his offices for this money but he worked for 3 months no money, he is upset because MJ was who brought him in to this situation.” – Mariam

    Unlikely. The ‘scene urine’ shows Michael received a smaller dose of Propofol earlier that morning. If he was in some kind of murderous state, why wouldn’t he have killed Michael then and there?

    Have you read Prince Michael’s testimony? Michael and Conrad both knew it was AEG that was responsible for the delays. Prince said his father would give Dr. Murray cash out of his pocket, while AEG was dragging out the negotiations.

    AEG was able to use Dr Murray to THEIR benefit, making demands, interfering in the doctor-patient relationship, merely by dangling the contract in front of him for 2 months. To my knowledge, Murray was the ONLY member of the ‘This Is It’ team this was happening to (others were working and being paid without finalized contracts).

    AEG only added Michael’s name to Murray’s contract 7 days before he died. They never sent it to Michael, or any of his “representatives” or assistant. Think about how many days AEG executives saw Michael at rehearsals. AEG were also in contact with Murray, Dileo, Tohme, Branca, Katz, etc. during this time…

    Does this look like a mere oversight?

    Within a 24 hour period, Murray signs and then faxes the final version of his contract to AEG, Prince witnesses Randy Phillips showing up at 100 N. Carolwood Dr. – after Michael left for rehearsals at Stapes Center – and having an angry conversation with Murray, and Michael is dead by noon.

    Whatever AEG’s motives for the contract delay prior to June 25 were, it certainly served their purposes in the aftermath. This contract, which Michael never saw, would be used by AEG to place plausible responsibility for Dr. Murray’s services on Michael’s shoulders after his death.

    Because, if Michael had died under Dr. Murray’s care BEFORE the addition of that last clause in the contract requiring Michael’s signature, AEG would’ve had a much tougher time trying to disown Dr. Murray.

    Remarkable timing and foresight on AEG’s part, I must say.

    Like

  65. Lopsided Man permalink
    December 3, 2013 7:17 pm

    Thanks 4 the song, Helena.

    The full version of “A Place With No Name” was leaked in the past 48 hours. It’s Michael’s version of “Horse With No Name” by the band, America. You can download it here:

    https://soundcloud.com/thebluegangsta1995/michael-jackson-a-place-with

    *Thanks to TheBlueGangsta1995 for the upload,

    Like

  66. Lopsided Man permalink
    December 3, 2013 7:07 pm

    “Not quite so. As far as I remember there were no traces in the short (side) tubing, but the long tubing was missing. I clearly remember the scene of Walgren showing how the long tubing could disappear in a pocket. And Alvarez also saw Murray disattaching the tubing from Michael’s knee. So the long tubing was simply not there.” – Vindicatemj (Helena)

    Walgren argued for the POSSIBILITY of the long tubing going into Murray’s pocket, because that’s what the case (involuntary manslaughter) rested on. It was never actually proven. In fact, the overall evidence re: the IV unit, suggests otherwise. The long tubing was there…it just tested negative for Propofol & Lidocaine.

    It seems the defense & prosecution were each working at cross purposes here: Pumping 2 100 ml Propofol vials directly into Michael, then walking away, makes Michal’s homicide far more VOLUNTARY than the slit IV bag drip theory. Yet, Murray’s attorneys were working to undermine the slit bag theory. That’s why they were reduced to arguments about swallowing Propofol….

    It reminds me of that former Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney Hamid Towfigh who revealed in an interview, that many in the office believed this was a case of 2nd Degree Murder with Implied Malice, but the D.A. chose to go with Involuntary Manslaughter instead.

    Alvarez is a very tricky witness. He also testified that while he was talking to the 911 operator he helped move Michael’s body to the floor while he held the cell phone with his shoulder. That’s pretty specific. We know the call ended before the EMTs arrived, and Senneff & Blount said Michael was either on the bed or being moved from the bed to the floor at the time they entered the room.

    “I understand that you are thinking of someone else giving Michael that Propofol (which cannot be ruled out), but Murray was not obliged to leave his fingerprints as he was supposed to work in rubber gloves, and rubber gloves were indeed found on the scene of the crime.” – Vindicatemj (Helena)

    They did find Murray’s left index finger print on the 100 ml Propofol vial found inside the slit bag.

    Like

  67. Nan permalink
    December 3, 2013 7:01 pm

    A scene of shocked silence follows. No one (the journalist, public, etc.) remembers about propofol any more. All attention is on Michael again and what this innuendo might mean. Murray has reached his goal and is terribly pleased with himself.
    ———–
    That is very true Helena, you are right,,It is how Victor Guiterrez and Evan Chandler slid by too..When you stop to look at these people, it is obvious they are lying
    But everyone always puts it back on MJ
    Murray lies everytime he opens his mouth.

    Like

  68. Marsha permalink
    December 3, 2013 5:51 pm

    Dear Helena I know that Michael was not a drug addict, but since so many people want to insist that he was ,my question or statment was to them. What does being an addict have to do with a doctor overdosing you on any kind of med. they seem to think that if someone was an addict that they deserve bad care, or no care, or do not count at all.

    Like

  69. December 3, 2013 4:39 pm

    David has sent us a new Michael’s song which I like immensely. Michael Jackson calls it “I am a loser”:

    For some reason I cannot resist accompanying it with this article:

    Randy Phillips out as AEG Live CEO; Jay Marciano named chairman

    By Ryan Faughnder
    November 25, 2013, 1:54 p.m.

    Anschutz Entertainment Group has parted ways with Randy Phillips, the chief executive of its live entertainment arm AEG Live, the company said Monday. Jay Marciano, AEG’s chief operating officer, has been named AEG Live’s chairman.

    The exit of Phillips, who joined the company in 2002, is part of a restructuring of the division’s management, in which Marciano will take a more active role in leading the subsidiary with a team of executives.

    The shakeup comes after Tim Leiweke resigned as AEG’s president and chief executive in March, an announcement that came as Philip Anschutz canceled plans to sell the company, which owns entertainment venues such as Staples Center in downtown Los Angeles. AEG Live is the world’s second biggest concert company, behind Live Nation.

    “Jay is a highly respected veteran of the live entertainment business,” said Dan Beckerman, AEG’s president and chief executive. “With his increased involvement in the management of AEG Live as its chairman, and with the wealth of experience and expertise found among the rest of the AEG Live executive team, there is no limit to what this group can accomplish.”

    Marciano’s executive team is led by Paul Tollett, John Meglen, Shawn Trell and Rick Mueller, all of whom have been given greater authority in the company.

    Tollett has been appointed as CEO and president of Goldenvoice, the AEG division that is the promoter of the annual Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival. Meglen will be AEG Live’s president of global touring, while Trell has been upped to the title of chief operating officer for AEG Live and Mueller has been promoted to president of AEG Live North America.

    Over Phillips’ more than 10 years with the company, he oversaw the development of a concert business whose roster includes artists such as Alicia Keys, Justin Bieber, Kanye West and Taylor Swift.

    He also figured prominently in the company’s legal battles over the drug overdose death of performer Michael Jackson. In October, a Los Angeles jury found that the company, which before Jackson died was the promoter of his planned 50-concert comeback tour, was not liable for the performer’s death.

    Just last year, Phillips signed a five-year contract to remain president and CEO at AEG Live.

    http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-randy-phillips-aeg-live-ceo-jay-marciano-20131125,0,5639472.story#axzz2mRFjUcLE

    John Meglen and Shawn Trell have been given greater authority in the company?

    Well, well……

    Like

  70. December 3, 2013 4:33 pm

    “pls listen his “documentary or interview” he had before he went to jail, may be it will help you to understand whether he is mentally sick or a murderer. After listening to his interview even before he went to jail, I suspected him that he killed MJ on purpose, now more suspicious than before” – Mariam

    Mariam, I think that with time we will find out whether Murray is a murderer. That he is psychopath I can tell you even now – the problem is only whether he is totally or only partially insane.

    And I’m afraid that it will indeed be necessary to listen to all his interviews – because of a drastic change in Murray’s policy. Now, for example, he doesn’t say a word about AEG or Kenny Ortega though previously he said that he was shocked by Randy Phillips’ words about Michael, that Michael called the AEG people “snakes” and that the person Michael hated most was Kenny Ortega. Now Murray keeps mum about it and all focus is suddenly on MJ’s so-called “secrets”.

    This sudden change in Murray’s priorities is a highly intriguing.

    “When the defense in Murray’s criminal trial, tested the spike, the IV bag (the one connected to Michael), the long tubing to argue that Michael ran the IV drip himself, they found no traces of propofol or lidocane in them.” – lopsided man

    Not quite so. As far as I remember there were no traces in the short (side) tubing, but the long tubing was missing. I clearly remember the scene of Walgren showing how the long tubing could disappear in a pocket. And Alvarez also saw Murray disattaching the tubing from Michael’s knee. So the long tubing was simply not there.

    “The slit IV bag (the one with the empty 100 ml Propofol vial inside) found hanging on the IV stand, DIDN’T have Murray’s fingerprints on them (or Michael’s), but had 4 identifiable prints which couldn’t be matched to anyone.”

    I understand that you are thinking of someone else giving Michael that Propofol (which cannot be ruled out), but Murray was not obliged to leave his fingerprints as he was supposed to work in rubber gloves, and rubber gloves were indeed found on the scene of the crime. This is why the absence of Murray’s fingerprints does not prove that it wasn’t Murray who administered that propofol.

    What’s important here is that there were no Michael’s fingerprints there and this is the first thing to say to Murray if he ventures his lies about “self-administration” again.

    Like

  71. December 3, 2013 3:36 pm

    “Thank you for the finer detailed points in your comments Helena, it has helped me see much more clearly the events of that night. During the Murray trial I watched what I could, but was baffled by the science involved” – Helen-Marie

    I know it is difficult, and I myself forgot some of the details, so it will probably be necessary to make a post about the hard facts we learned from Dr. Shafer which will be the basis for the truthful picture of that night. With a multitude of Murray’s lies which constantly need debunking it is easy to lose track and end up with a lot of confusion.

    Something similar was taking place at Murray’s trial – the doctors who testified for the prosecution could not even explore what really happened to Michael because they had to use Murray’s own words to prove that he is a criminal and therefore had to operate within the range of his lies.

    I mean if he said that he found Michael not breathing at 12 o’clock this is what the doctors had to use and start from, though in reality it could be much much earlier.

    The prosecutor’s job was to prove Murray’s guilt on the basis of what he was saying, and we have to do the same now. Murray constantly changes his story and tells new lies, and each time we have to follow his lead and prove that it was impossible. Liars are terrible distractors.

    Like

  72. December 3, 2013 3:14 pm

    “That does lead me to wonder how Michael came to meet such an overbearing and self centred character and put his full trust in him, playing life roulette with him for weeks on end without any of the necessary equipment on stand by. Nothing adds up.” – Helen-Marie

    Helen-Marie, a good question. I am not ready to answer it yet, except that we know that Michael actually wanted a proper anesthesiologist, Dr. Adams to accompany him, but Murray drove him away as he didn’t intend to share his piece of pie with him.

    We also remember that even when Murray was already part of the team Michael was still making enquiries about a doctor who could give him propofol (in his conversations with nurse Lee), so evidently he was wary of Murray’s services.

    I am also not sure that Michael was happy with Murray when he began making schedules for him and forcing him to attend rehearsals. However Murray still stayed which suggests that Michael was not his own master here. Indeed, according to Conrad Murray’s contract with AEG Michael could not fire him himself, he could only complain to AEG who had the right to dismiss. But something prompts me that even if Michael asked for a dismissal AEG would not fire Murray – he was too convenient to them.

    I also do not rule out that Michael did not intend to take propofol prior to the tour – he never did it before. Propofol was for the concerts and not rehearsal time, and it was only due to the need to dance, sing and perform for AEG 6 days a week for two months that he resorted to it and had to engage Murray in it.

    We need to think about it.

    Like

  73. December 3, 2013 2:52 pm

    “And to all those that say he was an addict . even if he was what does that have to do with anything, does it make him less worthy of proper medical care? No it does not.” – Marsha

    Addicts are of course worthy of proper medical care and should be helped by all means.

    But Michael was not an addict. He was an insomniac.

    There were two periods in his life when he was dependent on narcotic painkillers. But first of all he was not the initiator, wasn’t using them for recreation, they were a medical necessity and this eventually turned into a problem (as it often happens). And second, Michael was strong enough to overcome it.

    The first period of dependency on Demerol was easier and shorter, the second period was more difficult and longer.

    But he did overcome it as the autopsy clearly showed it – not a trace of any narcotics.

    Some other people also managed to do that, and in never occurs to anyone to call them drug-addicts. The recovered drug-addicts – yes, they are. All the more glory to them for it.

    For example: Angelina Jolie, Robin Williams, Carrie Fisher, Oprah Winfrey http://rollingout.com/entertainment/celebrity-drug-addicts-who-recovered/8/

    Like

  74. Helen-Marie permalink
    December 3, 2013 1:57 pm

    Thank you for the finer detailed points in your comments Helena, it has helped me see much more clearly the events of that night. During the Murray trial I watched what I could, but was baffled by the science involved, you have a clear and precise way of explaining things.

    When I watched Murray on 60 minutes I actually gasped in shock because I couldn’t believe what was spewing from his mouth. He came across as arrogant, egotistical, uneducated, clueless and most certainly blinded to the severity of what he had done to the greatest star that ever lived.

    It was clear to me that as soon as he was released he was going to do the media rounds and gather as much income that he could, knowing full well he would never work again. But apart from the obvious statements he made, I have to question how and why Michael had even struck up any kind of trust or friendship with such a character in the first place. It just doesn’t make sense that someone with such an enormous ego would mix well with Michael, as they were human traits that he despised .

    That does lead me to wonder how Michael came to meet such an overbearing and self centred character and put his full trust in him, playing life roulette with him for weeks on end without any of the necessary equipment on stand by. Nothing adds up.

    The question is, was Murray part of a bigger plan playing for the side of ‘evil’? A new take down plan after the ‘pedo allegations’ had failed once again and now out of jail is being told to mop up any remaining credibility Michael has left with an ambush of lies.

    I hope I am wrong.

    Like

  75. December 3, 2013 1:56 pm

    “Perhaps we can entertain and discuss another scenario: Randy Phillips and Paul Gongaware knew that there was no way that This Is It was going to be ready on the stated opening date, because of their spectacular ineptitude. So RP made a little visit to Murray to order him to impair MJ a bit. That way they could blame the delay on Michael, and maybe try to enforce their ludicrous contract that would allow them to get their hands on his assets. They probably didn’t intend to kill Michael, although that isn’t beyond possibility. But they relied on Murray, a ham-handed clown with delusions of competence.” – Simba

    Simba, I’ve found one interesting fact about Murray which we did not pay attention to previously. It may suggest that Randy Phillips knew that Murray was doing something not quite conventional for a doctor – something which could result in a medical problem. But I will need some time to write about it.

    Like

  76. December 3, 2013 12:28 pm

    “As far as having a doll in the bed….MJ was a visionary person , he wrote things on mirrors so he could visualize his success. He had a life size Spiderman which seem to fascinate the police, however , we now know he wanted to buy the comic book rights and make a 3D movie etc.” – Nan

    Nan, seriously, this doll is not even an issue. It could find itself there in a dozen possible ways. Paris could come into the room with a doll and leave it there. Someone said that Michael was packing those days and things were lying about and he could have prepared it for Paris to take it to London. It could stay somewhere on a sofa or armchair and someone could toss it to the bed in the chaos of that morning.

    The doll becomes an issue only when someone asks Murray a really serious question – for example, why Michael’s body had propofol enough for a major surgery, and he prefers to change the subject and divert all attention from himself. His interviews follow one and the same pattern – when it becomes too hot for Murray he does not give an answer and creates a theatrical scene.

    It is something like:

    Journalist: Why was there so much propofol in his body if you say you gave very little?
    Murray (in a manner suggesting sharing a big secret): By now we know that Michael was a drug-addict. I’ll tell you what – he had a dark side to himself…
    Journalist: (forgetting about propofol) What do you mean?
    Murray: I am not prepared to say it … not now.

    A scene of shocked silence follows. No one (the journalist, public, etc.) remembers about propofol any more. All attention is on Michael again and what this innuendo might mean. Murray has reached his goal and is terribly pleased with himself.

    Like

  77. December 3, 2013 11:54 am

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VPlh2O5Oju4

    “He was asleep. Not as deep as he normally would sleep because he was not snoring.” That statement raises a lot of thoughts and questions, doesn’t it? But as usual the Journalist doesn’t follow up the answer/statement.” – Susanne

    I haven’t seen this Youtube video yet because I’m sick and tired of Murray’s fountain of lies, but this statement about snoring indeed raises a lot of questions and very grave ones at that.

    I’ve looked up snoring under anesthesia and it is indeed possible, even in case a person does not snore under the usual circumstances. It happens due to muscles relaxing in the throat – and it is actually a grave sign because it shows that the throat is obstructed.

    If snoring under anesthesia stops it means that the throat has been blocked altogether and the patient is not breathing at all!

    Anesthesiologists use special breathing tubes to avoid this terrible complication. And what does Murray tell us?

    “He was asleep. Not as deep as he normally would sleep because he was not snoring.”

    Murray interprets it in exactly the opposite way! What he is saying here is since he was not snoring he was under a lighter sedation (or slept in a natural way), while in reality it means that he went into a deep sedation – general anesthesia – when breathing stops!

    Whichever way you look at Murray he is an arrogant IMBECILE. Even we understand more in anesthesiology than he does.

    – Can you snore under anesthesia?

    – The answer is YES, you can snore under anesthesia. If we put in a breathing tube or an LMA, you won’t. (Those bypass the upper airway where snoring happens) If we use a mask on your face, you probably will. We have airway adjuvants to help alleviate upper airway obstruction (which is what snoring is).

    In fact, you are more likely to snore under anesthesia than you are when you’re just sleeping, because our drugs usually make your muscles weak, even if we don’t paralyze you.

    I’m an anesthesiologist.
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080615103625AAHaVgZ

    Like

  78. December 3, 2013 11:49 am

    GIUSTIZIA PER MICHAEL!!!

    Like

  79. December 3, 2013 11:39 am

    “Murray says in the interview that he watched MJ for at least 30 minutes before he left the room. But if the effect of propofol was all gone in 10-15 minutes then why didn’t MJ wake up?” – Susanne

    Susanne, we’ve reached a stage when we need to bring some order into all these stories about Michael’s death. The first thing to do is draw a line between Dr. Shafer’s research showing what really happened to Michael (drip, respiratory arrest, propofol flowing into Michael’s body after his death) and the numerous lies told by Murray on every corner.

    The truth is only one while Murray’s versions are many – he was away for 2 minutes only, he was away for 40 minutes, he found Michael not breathing at 11 o’clock (the police version), he found Michael not breathing at 12 o’clock (the final version), so on and so forth.

    Since Murray’s lies are so many debunking his lies and searching for the truth are two different activities. Refuting his lies is a tedious business of analyzing why each new Murray’s lie is impossible, while looking for the truth is a separate research based on facts we’ve learned independent of Murray and going on irrespective of what he says.

    Let us consider this post to be the one that handles Murray’s lie about the so-called “self-administration” of Propofol which is currently his main version. Unfortunately it is being upheld by the media and this worries me a lot – why are they doing it? All of them can’t be that big idiots, can they? So why??

    But if they continue with this version and Murray goes on saying he left Michael’s side after waiting for 15 minutes after all propofol was gone I think the only right reaction to it would be to ask him back about why he left Michael’s bedside without waking him up.

    Doesn’t he know that a patient is to be woken up after anesthesia? If he doesn’t then he portrays himself as the worst possible ignoramus in medicine who should never be allowed to ever come close to patients. And an unteachable one as you said.

    Like

  80. December 3, 2013 10:33 am

    “If it was given by hand whether by Murray or by Michael, Michael would have awaked if all was well after the dose was not being given anymore stop the med patient wakes up. In fact he would have had to inject himself numerous times to get the levels that were found in him.” – Marsha

    Considering that Michael received more than 200ml of Propofol than night if he or Murray had tried to give it by a 10ml syringe they would have had to make 20 injections of clear Propofol (without the local anesthetic lidocaine) or respectively 40 injections – Murray said he was diluting propofol with lidacaine in equal proportions (1:1).

    All this is CRAZY and this is why I was completely shocked when a certain TV program (“Criminal files”) presented Murray’s version of MJ “self-administering” propofol in their 30-long video in October this year – even before Murray went on TV with his stories.

    I have the impression that the media is helping Murray.

    Like

  81. Susanne permalink
    December 3, 2013 10:24 am

    The man who killed Michael Jackson 1/5

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VPlh2O5Oju4

    About Conrad Murray leaving MJ alone in his bedroom:

    “He was asleep. Not as deep as he normally would sleep because he was not snoring.”

    That statement raises a lot of thoughts and questions, doesn’t it? But as usual the Journalist doesn’t follow up the answer/statement. Murray says in the interview that he watched MJ for at least 30 minutes before he left the room. But if the effect of propofol was all gone in 10-15 minutes then why didn’t MJ wake up?

    Like

  82. Nan permalink
    December 3, 2013 10:11 am

    I just wanted to mention another time when MJ was recorded without his knowledge , when he was on the phone with Ryan White and we see what an innocent he was .
    All this innuendo Murray is trying to make is ridiculous.
    It goes to the worst in human nature , that this Australian reporter even asked Murray any questions regarding his victim being a criminal.
    Michael went to court and was acquitted all across the board.
    Murray goes to court and is convicted , and then is given the opportunity to criticize the man he killed, and make money doing it.
    MURRAY is the convicted criminal.
    I wonder how any of these people sleep at tonight.
    As far as having a doll in the bed….MJ was a visionary person , he wrote things on mirrors so he could visualize his success.
    He had a life size Spiderman which seem to fascinate the police, however , we now know he wanted to buy the comic book rights and make a 3D movie etc.
    Just another visualization tactic.
    I would assume a person like him who was trying to visualize building a hospital , and liked to visualize things , may have a baby doll , and pictures of babies around to remind him what his focus should be.
    Murray is just a habitual liar..Even Flanagan admitted when cross examining Anon Steinberg, that Murray had left the room for a considerable amount of time.
    As far as why MJ was on a drip that morning, Murray had said that MJ had said , he wont be able to go to rehearsal.
    It was most certainly in Murrays best interest to get him to rehearsal, not just MJ.
    I think , once again , he was on that stuff, because it benefited Murray, just like it benefited him , NOT to get him away from that stuff, before his contract was signed.
    Once it was signed, he might have tried harder to get him off, and if he did and MJ didnt want him anymore, then I think the recording of him doped up would have come in play.

    Like

  83. Marsha permalink
    December 3, 2013 10:03 am

    Dear Helena I know that he received an obscene amount of propofol that is why Dr. schaffer and I believe there must have been a drip. That is the only way Michael would have stayed unconcious and have large amts found in his system. If it was given by hand whether by Murray or by Michael, Michael would have awaked if all was well after the dose was not being given anymore stop the med patient wakes up. In fact he would have had to inject himself numerous times to get the levels that were found in him. Now if Murray gave Michael the propofol he claims to have given that night /day then he knew that Michael would soon wake up, so why did he not check on him. In fact Michael should have been waking up almost as soon as he came from the “bathroom”. And as I said, if Michael was injecting himself he should have seen it. But michael did not wake up because there was a continuous drip going plus other sedatives on board. And the fact that they did not find the drip is no mystery it would not be Thay hard to get rid of esp. if you wait to call 911

    Like

  84. December 3, 2013 9:36 am

    Here is one more piece from Murray’s trial which explains why Dr. Shafer thought that Michael died very close to the moment when all Propofol ran out of the bottle https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/10/25/conrad-murray-trial-week-5/:

    “Chernoff produced Dr. Shafer’s final model (where Murray is giving a drip of 100ml of propofol) and asked an incredible question trying to impress the jury with its nasty implications:

    “You constructed a simulation where just by chance at the exact time the bottle ran out Michael Jackson also died. Is that sort of a coincidence”?

    Dr. Shafer politely answered,“No, it was my intent”.

    It was indeed Dr. Shafer’s intent to work out a model which would be totally consistent with all the data available to him.

    The major (and probably the only one) was the level of propofol in Michael Jackson’s blood found on autopsy. There was simply nothing else due to the absence of medical charts and records which Murray failed to make.

    To try to disprove Dr. Shafer’s 100 ml simulation of propofol in the blood, Chernoff asked if Dr. Shafer could make a projection of the level of propofol in the urine which would be consistent with his simulation of the level of propofol in the blood.

    And this means we can expect the show to go on. Now the defense will go after the number of propofol in the urine (and there were at least two samples of it – one in the jug, and another taken from the bladder on autopsy) and if they obtain those results they will compare them with Dr. Shafer’s final simulation trying to discredit it.”

    This happened on week 5 of Murray’s trial. But on week 6 Dr. Shafer analyzed the quantity of propofol in the urine and this was when we finally learned that Murray had given Michael at least 206 ml of propofol on the night he died.

    Like

  85. December 3, 2013 9:06 am

    “Now if he is so highly trained then he should have also known that the drugs he gave him aside from the propofol that night would increase the possibilty of michael not waking up from the sedation of propofol.- Marsha

    Exactly.

    “..I have to wonder if Murray was even in the house? I think he set up the drip and left to be with one of his female friends. And that somehow the gravity drip malfunctioned and michael received too much, or stopped breathing. (*Note breating problems from propofol are not determined by the dose given, it can happen at any dose level)”

    In fact what most probably happened was that Murray was NOT present when Michael died.

    I wrote this post exploring Murray’s lie about staying by Michael’s side for 15 minutes until after all propofol was gone, and this study showed that no matter what lies he tells his situation is not getting better – even if we follow his version of the events he is guilty like hell anyway.

    But now that I refreshed in my memory Dr. Shafer’s analysis of that situation I recall that the real scenario was different.

    Dr. Shafer used two measurements of Propofol in Michael’s body – the one in his urine and the other in his blood.

    The quantity in his urine showed how much propofol Michael received all in all that night (more than 206ml, which is consistent with the number of empty bottles found – two empty bottles 100ml each and two or three empty 20ml vials).

    And the quantity in his blood showed the way he received that propofol.

    Dr. Shafer’s conclusions were based on the phenomenal quickness with which propofol leaves the body while the patient is alive.

    Since the heart goes on beating for 10 minutes after a breathing arrest, by the moment of death ALL propofol should leave the blood and be almost zero there – it fully breaks up within 5 minutes.

    However Michael did have propofol in his blood and its level was very high. Out of several measurements of Propofol in blood Dr. Shafer used the most conservative figure (2,6 milligrams). The level measured at the hospital was 4,1 mg. One more was 3,2 mg from the heart and 2,6 mg was measured at the coroner’s office.

    Dr.Shafer made several computer simulations and found that this amount of propofol in MJ’s blood could accumulate only if part of that propofol ran into Michael’s dead body. If the bottle had run out before Michael’s death (and he died after that) there would have been no propofol in his blood. The only place where it would stay would be the urine where it goes while the person is alive and where it is stored after the final gate (kidneys) processed it.

    Since propofol was found in Michael’s blood it means that it streamed into his veins even after his heart stopped beating and propofol stopped breaking up.

    And this means that when Murray is describing that scene of “waiting for 15 minutes while all propofol is gone” and with so much vehemence too HE IS LYING AGAIN.

    It is just another of his umpteenth lies.

    What happened is this (Dr. Shafer described it on week 4 of Murray’s trial) https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/conrad-murray-trial-week-4/:

    THE FINAL SCENARIO

    Assuming that the time of death was around 12 o’clock (as Murray said) 100ml of Propofol started to be administered at 9.00 in the morning. It ran until 12 o’clock at which point all 100ml would have been infused.

    Since the infusion is made slowly the concentration of Propofol in the blood and in the brain is growing simultaneously. In case of a bolus injection it is different – propofol rises in the blood, but it reaches the brain rather slowly.

    Dr. Shafer says that for someone who does not understand the pharmacokinetics of Propofol after an hour of the infusion things will look pretty steady. However the situation is not stable because the levels in the blood and brain continue to rise. Propofol is filling up all compartments in the body and the apnea threshold (arrest in breathing) is approached slowly.

    What happens when the apnea threshold is approached slowly is that the rate of breathing becomes slower too.

    This slow-down in breathing could be detected – initially through measuring the CO2 with capnography, and as the breathing was getting so slow that no oxygen was getting in, it would have been picked up by pulse oxymetry.

    Murray could have even observed it physically, especially if the tongue was compromising the airway. Dr. Shafer said, “If he had been with the patient during that period of time he would have seen the slowing breathing. He could have easily just turned off the propofol infusion, raised his chin or in the worst case could have used the mask and ventilation and there would have been no injury to Michael Jackson”.

    According to Murray’s timeline at around 11.45 the flow of oxygen into Michael Jackson’s lungs stopped. Within 10-15 minutes the lungs no longer had oxygen for the heart and the heart stopped too.

    But if the heart stops and the infusion still goes on there is no opportunity for propofol metabolism to occur and for its level to drop. Propofol begins to accumulate in the blood without breaking up into metabolites. This is the only scenario which can explain the concentration of Propofol in femoral blood found in the toxicology report.

    If the heart hadn’t stopped beating when the vial ran out of Propofol, it would have been quickly metabolized and within 5 minutes its level would have significantly dropped. In fact if the 100 ml bottle had run out but the heart had been still beating the level of Propofol would have dropped to the same low level as before within only 5 minutes.

    But it did not drop and this means that Michael Jackson died while the Propofol was still running into his veins – even after his heart stopped.

    Dr. Shafer says that it fits with Conrad Murray’s description of the usual way he administered Propofol to Michael Jackson – which was a drip. It is also consistent with the 100ml vials he had ordered and shipped. He ordered 130pcs of 100ml vials for a period of 80 days which suggests he could use at least one vial per night.

    At some point while giving Michael a drip Murray left his bedside. Having observed him for a period of perhaps an hour and thinking that everything was okay he walked out of the room. At this very time the level of Propofol in Michael Jackson’s body was rising and reaching the critical level. Murray did not see that Michael’s breathing had slowed down and the level of CO2 was rising (he had no capnography).

    Dr. Shafer said:” I don’t know a single piece of data which is inconsistent with this explanation”
    Walgren asked: “When did the Propofol infusion end in this scenario?”
    Dr. Shafer: “At noon.”
    Walgren: “Is it because you assume that circulation stopped at noon?”
    Dr. Shafer: “No. The stopping of circulation and the bottle running out of Propofol are independent events. I simply timed them in the simulation so that they both occur at noon”

    It means that the same scenario may be applied to any time – 11 o’clock, 10 o’clock, whatever. If you ask me this could have happened at 11 o”clock as Murray initially said, and the results would have been the same.

    Like

  86. December 3, 2013 7:22 am

    Here is a piece from my other post (based on Dr. Shafer’s testimony) explaining that the lack of basic equipment was an unheard of violation of medical care standards:

    Lack of the infusion pump is another of egregious violations.

    Without the infusion pump the rate of propofol delivery cannot be precisely controlled. In the absence of this equipment the danger of an overdose increases many times over. Dr. Shafer says that this factor widely contributed to Michael Jackson’s death.

    David Walgren asked if it was possible to control propofol by means of a plastic wheel on the tubing. Dr. Shefer answered that the little roll which squeezes the tubing and stops the flow was extremely imprecise for propofol. The failure to have the infusion pump was a direct cause of Michael Jackson’s death.

    Another egregious violation was the pulse oxymeter which Conrad Murray used.

    This basic model is clipped to a finger only for quick measurements:

    This basic model was completely inappropriate for continuous monitoring of the patient. It is designed for a quick measurement of the pulse only. The models used in the hospital setting are supplemented by a sound device which accompanies each beat and even if doctors don’t see it they can hear the beats slowing down – so they know what is happening just from listening.

    In case of a respiratory arrest the oxygen starts dropping from the norm of 100%. By the time it reaches 92% the alarm starts off. This moment is simply impossible to miss and it requires an immediate intervention on the part of doctors to bring oxygen back into the blood.

    Dr. Shafer says that a proper pulse oxymeter would have saved Michael Jackson’s life.

    Let me add that the model used by Murray costs $275 while the models that could have saved his life cost $750-1500. Murray and those who were to supply the equipment (AEG Live) were economizing on Michael Jackson.

    Lack of a blood pressure cuff is another egregious violation.

    Propofol lowers the blood pressure – everyone’s blood pressure. This is an expected event which is handled by anesthesiologists either by giving another drug (ephedrine for example) or by administering less propofol.

    Considering that Michael Jackson was dehydrated from strenuous exercise (lacking enough liquid in his system) his blood pressure had a tendency to be low. Dr. Shafer explained the phenomenon which takes place when the blood pressure drops – the body closes legs and hands (that is why they feel cold) and preferentially sends the blood to vital organs only – like the heart, for example.

    But since propofol is circulating mostly to the vital organs it also becomes more potent and this is what physicians call “an exaggerated response”. It is an increase in the power of the drug simply due to a drop in the blood pressure – which in case of propofol may be crucial (any change in its concentration can involve a breathing arrest). This is why it is so important to have a blood pressure cuff fixed to the arm of the patient and monitoring his blood automatically and on a regular basis.

    Murray’s blood measuring device was manual but even this was not in use – it was packed into a cardboard box and looked like it was seldom used.

    Lack of an ECG machine was a separate egregious violation.

    This machine allows you to monitor the heart rate and see whether it s low, high, normal or abnormal. Dr. Shafer says that Murray cannot even tell us what Michael’s heart was doing at the time of the arrest.

    Capnography is the monitoring of the concentration of carbon dioxide (CO2). Failure to measure this concentration is an egregious violation.

    In the report Dr. Shafer listed it among serious violations first but later elevated it to the egregious one. He explained – in the hospital setting it wouldn’t be that crucial as there is a lot of other monitoring equipment which will set off the alarm in case of a problem. But in a home setting with no equipment available, capnography is one of the first things to have as its absence is a set-up for disaster.

    A capnogram can show when the patient stopped exhaling carbon dioxide and it may serve as the very first warning of a respiratory arrest. And a respiratory arrest is all we are talking about here.

    Another egregious violation is not having the emergency drugs at hand.

    These include drugs to raise the blood pressure, stabilize the heart rhythm and accelerate the heart if it gets too slow. If we come to think of it Murray did not have any medication at all to help Michael’s heart and cardiovascular system though he is supposed to be a cardiologist.

    The medication needed included ephedrine to raise the blood pressure (which acts as adrenalin) and a muscle relaxant in order to paralyze the very strong muscles in the mouth which won’t allow the tubing to be inserted into the airway for bringing in oxygen there.

    This didn’t contribute to the death of Michael Jackson, but Dr. Shafer said but it shouldn’t have even got to the point when such medication was required.

    Failure to make records is an egregious and unconscionable violation.

    Dr. Shafer stressed it again and again that keeping the records was not optional. It is part of the care of the patient. The doctor should always be able to reference himself to what happened 10 minutes ago and find an answer to a question – What did you do why the patient is having this reaction now?

    More information here: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/conrad-murray-trial-week-4/

    Like

  87. December 3, 2013 6:39 am

    “A pules oximeter tells you how much oxygen is in the blood. So if Murray had been using it he would have known that MIchael was in trouble even if he was “sleeping”.” – Marsha

    Yes, at Murray’s trial they explained what pulse oxymeter is and how it works, and I listened carefully. All the details are in the respective posts about Murray’s trial. Of course, even by its name it is clear that the device is for measuring the level of oxygen in blood, but it also shows the pulse rate.

    Whatever the case is Murray was not using that device for Michael that night because he clipped it to his finger only when Alvarez came into the room – just to create the impression that he had been monitoring Michael.

    I wrote about it in this post for week 1 of the trial https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/murrays-trial-begins/:

    “In the process of moving the patient Alvarez noticed an IV tube connected to his leg and saw Murray pulling it away. Murray took a brown box, which was not attached when the patient was on the bed and clipped it onto his finger. Alvarez said that he knew what it was. A few days before that Murray had come to their trailer and asked for batteries for this device. He explained that it was a heart monitor or “something to that extent”. It could have been a week prior to June 25.”

    Pulse oxymeter looks like this:

    Displays, Indicators, and Keys

    SpO2 (Oxygen): LCD Display
    Pulse Rate: LCD Display
    Keys: Power button/Display button

    Like

  88. December 3, 2013 3:42 am

    Simba: JanCorey comes to visit us here from time to time to provoke us with his/her addiction statements. Just don’t pay attention to him/her.

    Sina: If you’re under sedation, your body usually is not able to react to any problems occurring because the central nervous system is shut down and the body functions are “deactivated”. Of course there are several levels of sedation (minimal sedation, moderate sedation, deep sedation, general anesthesia) and if you’re only under minimal sedation you can respond to some extent. But according to the amount of residual propofol they found in Michael he must have been under deep sedation, even general anesthesia. And this means there is no gasping, noise or moving possible. That’s the reason why the patient under deep sedation has to be monitored carefully with the necessary equipment and you cannot leave him alone for a minute. And if you look aside for a minute, the device makes the noise in form of beeps. But the patient is not able to let you know that he is in trouble.

    Like

  89. simba permalink
    December 3, 2013 2:12 am

    Jan Corey – Conrad, is that you?

    Perhaps we can entertain and discuss another scenario: Randy Phillips and Paul Gongaware knew that there was no way that This Is It was going to be ready on the stated opening date, because of their spectacular ineptitude. So RP made a little visit to Murray to order him to impair MJ a bit. That way they could blame the delay on Michael, and maybe try to enforce their ludicrous contract that would allow them to get their hands on his assets.

    They probably didn’t intend to kill Michael, although that isn’t beyond possibility. But they relied on Murray, a ham-handed clown with delusions of competence. Considering the terse language in AEG’s termination announcement, could be that Phillip Anschutz found out something even more ugly about Randy Phillips and wanted to distance himself and his company before it comes to light.

    Like

  90. Marsha permalink
    December 3, 2013 1:30 am

    Dear helena great article, just one note. A pules oximeter tells you how much oxygen is in the blood. So if Murray had been using it he would have known that MIchael was in trouble even if he was “sleeping”. My question for Murray is, when he did not wake up after the drip or manual infusion why did he not wake him, when he supposedly knew that when the infusion stops the patient wakes up. Probaly because he thought that the other drugs he had given him had kicked in. But as I said if he had been using the pulse ox he would have seen that his blood oxygen level was low, and should have at that point taken action. Now if he is so highly trained then he should have also known that the drugs he gave him aside from the propfol that night would increase the possibilty of michael not waking up from the sedation of propofol. Also even if only one vial was used Michael still would have had to draw up the propfofol more than once for it to be empty because the syringe could only hold 5cc/ml. And if we hold Murray to his statement that he was only gone about three min. then if michael was injecting himself then Murray should have been in the room during the last one. Why did he not take action then to make sure he was breathing and his oxygen was where it should have been. And to all those that say he was an addict . even if he was what does that have to do with anything, does it make him less worthy of proper medical care? No it does not. I have to wonder if Murray was even in the house? I think he set up the drip and left to be with one of his female friends. And that somehow the gravity drip malfunctioned and michael received too much, or stopped breathing. (*Note breating problems from propofol are not determined by the dose given, it can happen at any dose level) And that is another thing why did he not have the propofol given by a pump that would only give so much per min.? Murray did so many things wrong that night. As to Murrays other comments about Michael well last time I checked it was not a crime or sin to sleep with a doll. With friends like Murray who needs enemies, if my freind slept with a doll or soiled his bed I would not be blabbing it to the whole world. Love covers you and protects. I have always wondered about Murray sanity.

    Like

  91. JanCorey permalink
    December 3, 2013 12:22 am

    With all due respects to you Mariam, it appears that you are not well-educated on forensics or the science of fingerprinting or even evidence collection procedures and you may want to include your apparent lack of expertise in these many areas so maybe you can try to add some credibility to anything you ask or comment upon in the future. I still admire your willingness to refute the facts of the case that indicates MJ was a victim of what he paid his doctor to do for him.

    Like

  92. Mariam permalink
    December 3, 2013 12:08 am

    Helena, I was waiting this and great job again and it is very detail. If in fact, MJ inject himself Propofol , his finger print should and must be on everything (on the syringe, on the stand, on the bottle of Propofol etc) . Who do believe CM lie, I prefer to believe an expert because they are an expert. I wish all the people listen the testimony from CM trial; all the experts’ testimony was very interesting.

    Also “urine analysis” you wrote is very telling. Also, anesthesiologist obligation “checking their patient if he wake up after anesthesia given” not doing that is deadly wrong as a doctor or as anesthesiologist. One thing also striking me is, CM didn’t even put the monitor on MJ’s finger from the bagging. He did not have respect for MJ life at all he didn’t care about him , and that hurts.

    MJ wishes/speak under sedation, makes me cry and also makes me to see his big heart and pureness. It tells you how much he concerned and cared for human beings and planet. God must put this in his heart and I believed God wants him to do that because Bible also tells us about distraction that human being created and how the future of this world will be. MJ sensed that and felt that. That is the reason all this test, all this disease he encountered in his life, all these attacks, all this hate he was fighting with all these years, all these obstacle he dealt with in his life since he was very young. The man who is afraid to hurt, afraid to offend others, who is humble, and loving person who loves to give for poor, should not went through all this. Absolutely, HE DOESN’T DESERVE THIS.

    Satan always tried to destroy those kinds of people who have God’s agenda in heart. MJ preached about love and peace in his life that is because he believes love can change our world which the word of God said too.

    Unfortunately, Satan used CM and AEG to destroy this precious and valuable man who had a positive message for our world and who could do much more for mankind. He is genius, knowing and believing that our children is a future generation and by investing our time and money, raising them with love and giving them the tools they need, he saw the potential and the outcome from distance on this new generation to change the world.

    The reason why I am upset about his death is, because we have no too many people like him, we have some but not enough compared to the problem we are facing.

    I read the article about Starvation in Africa in 1980’s (we are the world) and the person wrote, “MJ, literally fed a millions of people in Africa”. A people like him defiantly, have a bigger enemy both physically and spiritually, because Satan wants destroy the world and cause wars and MJ’s agenda is obviously against it, so he paid the price.

    Now, his legacy, his good name, the real,true Michael Jackson( the humanitarian, his passion to heal the world, the love and care he had for the children, his music, his art) should be presented appropriately. That is the battle we are in, fighting them to stop damaging his legacy and his good name. Destroyed him emotionally, sociologically and finally killed him still not enough. I am really scared of this doctor; I don’t know what he needs more from MJ.

    Helena, pls listen his “documentary or interview” he had before he went to jail, may be it will help you to understand whether he is mentally sick or a murderer. After listening to his interview even before he went to jail, I suspected him that he killed MJ on purpose, now more suspicious than before. because he is very upset on MJ even I think sometimes he hated MJ, but he didn’t want to tell us that or why, instead he is plying ” my friend” “I love him” game. I think he killed him on purpose because he is upset with him and with AEG because his $150,000 was going to be dream not real, and he felt he is used with no pay by MJ or AEG while he closed all his offices for this money but he worked for 3 months no money, he is upset because MJ was who brought him in to this situation.

    Well, one thing is certain, taking somebody’s life is serious crime against God, and the person’s soul and blood will never stop crying for justice until.

    Like

  93. Lopsided Man permalink
    December 2, 2013 7:39 pm

    Kris, don’t feed the trolls.

    To add to my last post…

    – When the defense in Murray’s criminal trial, tested the spike, the IV bag (the one connected to Michael), the long tubing to argue that Michael ran the IV drip himself, they found no traces of propofol or lidocane in them.

    The slit IV bag (the one with the empty 100 ml Propofol vial inside) found hanging on the IV stand, DIDN’T have Murray’s fingerprints on them (or Michael’s), but had 4 identifiable prints which couldn’t be matched to anyone.

    Like

  94. JanCorey permalink
    December 2, 2013 7:35 pm

    Thank you so kindly Kris for that update, I must have told wrong by the Experts that have commented on MJ’s addiction problems he suffered from, through his own admissions, after the hair-burning episode for the commercial he was contracted to do. You see? Facts must not be relevant to the truth. Thanks again Kris for the update.

    Like

  95. Sina permalink
    December 2, 2013 7:25 pm

    Helena , your take of the events seems very likely and is very well explained.
    But some things do not ad up or I dont understand very well.
    If there is such a short time between the administration of the( overdose) of propofol and Michael getting in distress when the oxygen level dropped and he couldnt breath, I wonder if it was not visible for CM , was he gasping for breath, making noise or moving his arms or legs. (or does it only happen in movies? )
    Or could it be that the ‘pams’ caused him to stay relaxed and asleep , the reason why he was given the mixture in the first place, and therefore Murray didnt notice ?

    Like

  96. Lopsided Man permalink
    December 2, 2013 6:43 pm

    Another great post Helena.🙂

    Everyone should pay special attention to the scene urine (from the jug near the bed).

    Murray told LAPD he had switched the urine jug at around 6:30 am – 7:00 am. Well, we know the scene urine contained ‘less than 0.10 micrograms/ml’ of Propofol so Murray’s story about giving in to Michael’s demand for Propofol at 10:40 am is patently false.

    Yet another lie.

    The one key part in Conrad Murray’s tale that seems true is that Michael didn’t die from the I.V. drip….which is actually worse.

    Like

  97. Kris permalink
    December 2, 2013 6:14 pm

    Jan Corey, Michael was drug-dependent due to severe pain issues. He was not an addict. Thousands upon thousands of people, including lots in the grueling entertainment industry, are drug-dependent. Why pick on Michael?

    Like

  98. JanCorey permalink
    December 2, 2013 5:42 pm

    Murray is a doctor TMJ, and his former patient was a drug addict who happened to be one of the most brilliant singer/song-writers in decades imo. MJ caused his own death imo as mandating drugs from his doctors as many drug addicts often do.

    Like

  99. December 2, 2013 2:47 pm

    Reblogged this on teammichaeljackson.

    Like

  100. December 2, 2013 2:46 pm

    Thank you Helen for another in-depth analysis. And most of all for watch Murray as i just could not stomach it. I need to read this couple more times for it all to sink in.

    Murray is a narcissist.

    Lv

    Like

  101. December 2, 2013 7:36 am

    Thanks, Helena. This creep shows his true self with every word he says. I cannot imagine anybody can overlook the massive contradiction between his claim to love Michael and his statements and allegations (and “pauses”) about Michael which are in no way loving. He is a lost man and he knows it deep inside, but he still fights against his own evil and lies to himself and to the whole world.
    He is one of the worst self-serving persons Michael ever met and this is the reason AEG could use him so perfectly.

    If they needed to interview him, he should have been pressured much more and asked all the necessary detailed questions Helena made us aware of and how Michael could get up and self-administer the propfol and do all the necessary steps with a catheter and an infusion attached to him. I mean either this man is terribly sick and doesn’t realize how crazy he is (as well as his lawyer) or he is fully aware of the craziness and he thinks he stands above all lies and rationality, which is highly criminal (and more likely to me). His whole demeanor in the interview is that of a bad actor. I always have to think of his poor children to have a father like him.

    It’s definitely a major point and absolutely true that a person has to be awakened after a sedation, even after a short one, to see if he/she is alright. After a deep sedation even all physical functions are checked and people are asked questions to see if their brain works normally. To let him continue sleeping without checking his condition is one more of all these egregious mistakes Murray made, and in his delusion he mentions this mistake himself. To mention this in an interview shows how unteachable and obstinate this man is that he even forgot or ignores what he must have learned once.

    Like

  102. mjbluemoon permalink
    December 2, 2013 5:47 am

    Thank U!! Murrays a murder & he also knew about Mjs allergies 2 HALDOL!!

    Like

  103. Mado permalink
    December 2, 2013 5:43 am

    Thank you once again dear Helena. I am very obliged to you for informing me on all MJ issues. I love reading your articles.
    I have never felt so angry in my whole life…

    Like

  104. December 2, 2013 5:02 am

    “I think I should point out an error in your timings when you write THE NIGHT OF 25th JUNE, as indeed Michael passed sometime in the morning of the 25th and the night before would have been the 24th June.” – Helen-Marie

    Helen-Marie, thank you for your remark – it settled for me what I’ve been thinking over myself. I decided that technically speaking the night (early morning?) of June 25th started at midnight, but this technicality also looked strange to me, so I will change it back into June 24th.

    Like

  105. Helen-Marie permalink
    December 2, 2013 4:46 am

    Helena, a great piece, but I think I should point out an error in your timings when you write THE NIGHT OF 25th JUNE, as indeed Michael passed sometime in the morning of the 25th and the night before would have been the 24th June. I know you work so hard to put accurate facts together and many follow you because of that accuracy, so please don’t take offence at my correction as it’s done with good heart. x

    Like

  106. December 2, 2013 4:11 am

    OMG I am crying……….I think we can rest assured that Murray will never get his license
    to practice again ..Thank you Helena

    Like

  107. December 2, 2013 2:43 am

    Brilliant analysis Helena. And yes the Michael Jackson we hear under sedation is no different from who he appeared to be. An amazingly beautiful soul. Incredible.

    Like

  108. JanCorey permalink
    December 1, 2013 11:25 pm

    I have not seen even a single lie spoken by CM, not a one.

    Like

  109. Christy permalink
    December 1, 2013 10:50 pm

    It is official..Murray is demented!! But then I am not surprised..I hate to think what lies he told Michael

    Like

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