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Victor Gutierrez and his monstrous book about Michael Jackson. Part 2. HIS CLASSICAL CRAZY LIES

June 8, 2011

Let us have a closer look at Victor Gutierrez

The purpose of part 1 about Victor Gutierrez’s book was not rebutting the author’s lies but looking at Gutierrez’s sources and the author himself. The idea was to find out how the author could know Jordan’s most intimate thoughts about his passionate “love for a male adult” and how come Gutierrez could describe those sex scenes with so much detail.

Answering these questions in my opinion is even more important than rebutting Gutierrez’s lies. After you see them with your own eyes you’ll understand that it doesn’t require too much effort to refute them – most of the lies are so ridiculous that one can’t help wondering what was wrong with the people if they believed them so easily – was it a mass hypnosis? Mass delusion based on the mass ignorance? Or our readiness to be entertained in an extremely vile and sick way?

Whatever it was we are fortunately past that stage and that is why it is so much important to see how Gutierrez came to know all those intimate details. If he didn’t have Jordan’s diary (which he didn’t as Ray Chandler said Jordan never kept it) and Evan’s diary either, at least in its present form (the conclusion I came to in the first part) the only other alternative left is that the author wrote the diary himself and described those oral sex scenes from the experience of his own. And this brings us to a question –  HOW COME VICTOR GUTIERREZ KNOWS THE SUBJECT SO WELL?

We have already started suspecting him of being a member of NAMBLA as he himself said he had attended its highly secretive assembly. Considering that the FBI agent Robert Hamer (described in this post) who after infiltrating NAMBLA had to wait for almost two years before he received permission to make his presence at its conference (the attendees didn’t  know where this mafia-like assembly would be held and got the address at the last minute in the form of a personal invitation) I am terribly disinclined to believe Gutierrez’s nonchalant version that he attended the conference as a reporter for a newspaper, as he initially claimed.

His later version of attending NAMBLA undercover for LAPD does not hold water either as in the same article where he makes this statement he also says that he was “nobody to the police”, just “a poor Latino reporter” and that is why the LAPD didn’t pay attention to any of his findings which he presented in his book (go to this post for details please).

This leaves us with only one possible explanation for his attendance of this conference – Victor Gutierrez could have been there only as a member and he probably loosened his tongue about this astonishing fact out of his boundless belief in other people’s stupidity and habit to brag about his ‘exclusive sources’. He thought that his explanation would satisfy the gullible public but now it turns out that it doesn’t and makes us wonder instead – in which capacity did Victor Gutierrez attend the NAMBLA conference?

Looking further in the same direction we are now examining his book where Victor Gutierrez tells us incredibly intimate details of love plays between a boy and an adult and cannot provide any credible explanation as to how he came to know all those things again… Are you thinking the same thought about Gutierrez which has entered my mind? If you are, let all us always have the terrible guess in our minds while examining his book – if we know what to look for some more evidence to prove our suspicions may incidentally present itself.

Most readers have been asking whether this or that lie has been told by Gutierrez in his book. There is no need asking guys – ALL lies ever told about Michael can be found in this anthology of lies. The only problem for me is how to present them to the innocent public without doing any more damage to Michael or giving further promotion to Gutierrez’s stories. With some precaution though I will try to introduce you to the catchiest lies from Victor Gutierrez, most of which have now acquired the status of classical ones about MJ.

If you have enough patience and stomach to listen to hundreds of filthy lies non-stop let us start then with Gutierrez’s most monstrous hits. The first one is:

A fairy tale about a lion and the poor fate of Michael’s animals

The story made up by Gutierrez about Michael’s animals is so incredible that it is worth reproducing here in full:

“Jackson’s Private Zoo

On Saturday morning, Jordie was eager to play and have fun. Today, though, he would see a side of Jackson that he had not expected.

Jackson took Jordie, Brett and their sisters to see the animals in his private zoo. Jordie wanted to see the lion that Jackson called “Kimba.” Upon arriving at the lion’s cage, Jordie saw the poor condition he was in, not to mention the filth in which he lived. The security guards were watching the host and his guests from nearby, and saw the lion frighten the children when he roared at them.

“Michael saw that Brett, who was very timid, was scared,” recalled Abdul and other security guards who were present. “Michael then shouted at the lion, ‘You’re going to pay for scaring my boy [Brett].’ At Michael’s request, the children went to get buckets which were used for the animals’ food, and filled them with stones. All of them, especially Michael, began to stone Kimba, who began bleeding.

Brett asked Michael not to do it anymore, saying that he was fine, but Michael continued throwing stones with Jordie. The poor lion didn’t know where to hide.” Jackson’s cruelty towards his own animal did not end there. To impress Brett and his guests, Jackson told the children to go get fireworks and firecrackers from the house.

“It was incredible to see Michael Jackson, who says he is a protector of animals, throwing lit firecrackers and small bottle rockets at Kimba,” Abdul recalled. “We were afraid the roof of the animal cage would catch fire, so we advised the fire department by radio to be prepared in case something happened.”

At the end of Jackson’s game with his little friends, the security guards went to check on the poor animal. Since there was neither a veterinarian nor a caretaker, the guards, without any kind of training, were now in charge of attending to the animals. Sometime before, an employee had felt pity for the animals and anonymously notified the authorities.

 “When the authorities arrived they found a lot of infractions and negligence in the zoo,” Abdul continued. “But they did not find Kimba. How were they going to find him if we were ordered to put poor Kimba in a truck and leave the ranch, and return when the authorities had left? The reason we took the lion off the ranch was because Michael didn’t have a legal permit to have the lion on his property, much less in the horrid conditions he was in.”

Kimba’s conditions are not unique in Jackson’s zoo. According to his own animal trainer, Bob Dunne, “the majority of Jackson’s animals are in poor condition. Michael is not interested in animals. He doesn’t set aside funds to hire veterinarians or expert zoo keepers.”

These statements were echoed by Melanie Bagnall. “Why have animals and not take care of them? Simply because the children like them.”

 Another example of Jackson’s indifference to the animals was observed by Abdul. “One of the giraffes died from the lack of care it received. They didn’t have shade and they didn’t receive any attention, which the authorities themselves had noted in their report. We notified Michael and he said that if we advised the authorities they would bring charges against him upon seeing what had happened. So he ordered us to bury it on the ranch. We knew it was illegal. The painful thing was to see the poor giraffe have chains put around its neck to drag it by truck to the burial place. We all stopped working to see this cruel act. They dragged it over the whole ranch, its skin scraping off against the earth and jagged sticks that it passed over.”

“Today Jordie would see a side of Jackson that he had not expected?” Today we have seen the side of Gutierrez that we never expected! It turns out that he is capable to invent a horror story out of complete nothing – I mean not a single true fact! The lion living in filth! Stones and fireworks thrown at the poor animal! The fire brigade ready to put out fire! The giraffe with chains around its neck! Its skin scraping off against the earth! Buried there illegally! And all this despite the care of a well-respected veterinarian attending to Michael’s animals and employed by Michael for more than 20 years?!

What makes it both funny and tragic is that despite total absurdity of the above the Prosecutors and the Defense in 2005 had to look in full earnest into this indescribable pile of Gutierrez’s lies. Below is part of Wade Robson’s testimony which makes it clear that the young man has no idea why crazy questions like that are being asked of him by serious people on both sides (he probably never read Gutierrez’s book, that’s why!).

He sounds baffled as for him it was nothing but “a lion that was in a cage”:

Ron Zonen’s examination of Wade Robson:

11 Q. Were there ever occasions where you and Mr.

 12 Jackson were throwing stones at the lion in the zoo?

 13 A. Stones at the lion. Yeah, I think so.

 14 Q. That did happen, didn’t it?

 15 A. Yeah.

 16 Q. Mr. Jackson was throwing stones at the lion

 17 in your presence; is that right?

 18 A. Yes.

 19 Q. Was he encouraging you to do the same thing?

 20 A. Yeah. Little pebbles, but, yeah.

 21 Q. They weren’t exactly pebbles. They were

 22 good-sized stones, weren’t they?

 23 A. No, I remember small stones.

 24 Q. It was designed to irritate the lion, wasn’t

 25 it?

 26 A. Yeah, we were trying get him to make some

 27 noise.

 28 Q. Because it was entertaining to Mr. Jackson 9124

 1 and to you?

 2 A. Yeah.

Thomas Mesereau’s cross-examination of Wade Robson:

 10 Q. Now, the prosecutor talked about your

 11 throwing pebbles at a lion.

 12 A. Uh-huh.

 13 Q. Would you please explain what you were

 14 describing.

 15 A. Well, there’s a lion that was in a cage

 16 And, you know, went to see the lion roar, and it’s

 17 pretty much just sitting there, you know, not doing

 18 anything. So we picked up a couple little stones

 19 and threw them at the cage, you know.

 20 Q. And the prosecutor used the word “stones,”

 21 and you said “pebbles.” How big were these things?

 22 A. Little, you know — I don’t know,

 23 quarter-inch sort of things.

 24 Q. Were you trying to hurt the lion?

 25 A. No.

 26 Q. To your knowledge, was Mr. Jackson trying to

 27 hurt the lion?

 28 A. No. 9133

Yes, to be able to understand the point of this discussion you need to read Gutierrez’s book first or otherwise you will completely miss what the whole thing is all about. So it wasn’t stones but small pebbles, and it wasn’t several buckets of them but a couple of pebbles only? And the lion wasn’t bleeding and half-dead, but it wasn’t even hurt? And it didn’t roar and scare the children but was quiet and ‘just sitting’  and that is the exact reason why they threw those pebbles and wanted it to make a noise? And no authorities or fire brigades were notified? Because there was nothing to notify them about? And so on and so forth? See the power of Gutierrez’s imagination and the amount of work he is capable of giving us?

Another package of documents has to be looked into to debunk Gutierrez’s myth that the animals lived ‘in filth’ and there was “no vegetarian or caretaker attending to them”. This lie is further aggravated by a follow-up action by PETA (“People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals”) who evidently read too much of Gutierrez and created a terrible scandal when Michael left Neverland after the 2005 trial.

These well-meaning people, brainwashed by Gutierrez, Diane Dimond and the like, started screaming that (quoted from http://www.hecklerspray.com/michael-jackson-officially-not-cruel-to-animals/20062022.php) the “aerial shots of the Neverland zoo showed giraffes standing around in pools of their own blood, elephants stamping around in their own feces and crocodiles crammed into tiny enclosures”. Do you recognize the poisonous side-effects of Victor Gutierrez’s presence? After his venom had spread all over the media the PETA people were ready to believe anything – just anything – about Jackson! Their spokesperson Lisa Wathne was totally apoplectic, saying:

  • “These photos make it clear that the animals are being held in what can only be described as cruel conditions. They are abysmal and little more than holding cells.”

PETA complained to the US Department of Agriculture, urging them to send an inspector to Neverland, even closing it down if needs be. But Darby Holladay, spokesman for the US Department of Agriculture, said:

  • “I’m unaware of any violations of the Animal Welfare Act at Neverland.”

What they actually found was that the animals were in good condition and were well taken care of. The Neverland highly-respected vegetarian Martin Dinnes said that he would provide the best of care to the animals even if he wasn’t paid when Michael left the ranch (his non-payment dispute was later settled) –  so if he took good care of them even when Michael was away and the vet was not temporarily paid can you imagine how much more attention was given to the animals when Michael was living there and paying him???

Martin Dinnes said that the standard of care at Neverland was such that “you could eat off the ground on that property” – which is an excellent rebuttal of Gutierrez’s claims that the animals “lived in filth” there. Martin Dinnes said:

January 25, 2006

Vet Dr. Martin Dinnes, the veterinarian who cares for the animals at Neverland Ranch has said “I’ve not talked to anybody else in the media at all. The animals are fine. Our dispute (over payment) is all settled.”
“Through all of this, all the principals, and Neverland, and MJJ, and all of Michael’s entities knew that even if I didn’t get paid,” he added, “I was going to take care of those animals.”

Dr. Dinnes has worked with Michael for twenty years, helping him to assemble and maintain his private zoo of exotic animals.

Last week, the U.S. Department of Agriculture said that it had investigated a complaint from PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, who expressed concern that the animals at the ranch were being neglected. The agency visited the ranch and found the animals in good condition.

“Attacking the health and welfare of those animals is a direct attack on me, and my credentials are impeccable,” said Dr. Dinnes. “We really have nothing to hide. Our doors are open, to the right people. You could eat off the ground on that property.”

Michael and I are very close,” Dr. Dinnes said. “We’ve been close for 20 years. My dispute was not with Michael. It was with his business people. Through everything that Michael went through, their mind wasn’t on a lot of things. I’ve been there with him before, through times when I failed to get a check on time, but they never, ever stuck me, and I was assured they never would again. Something triggered me to file, but it’s all settled.”

Dr. Dinnes is satisfied that the matter is completely settled. “We got a clean bill of health from the USDA and I have that in writing”. “Contrary to what people are saying in all these looney-toon reports, the animals are fine,” said Dr. Dinnes. “I go up there once a week. The animals are well-fed. They’re in good condition. It’s just not like what’s reported.

“My attorney asked the Enquirer (tabloid mag,) ‘Where’d you get the information?’ They said, PETA. ‘Where’d you get the pictures that you took?’ They said, ‘From a helicopter.’

“You know how you can doctor pictures; I’m just surmising. They did take a picture of the elephants being walked, and they conveniently had a clump of elephant poop around them. They took a picture of the giraffes in the yard, and claimed that there was a dark spot on the ground that they said was blood. Under my watch, that can never happen,” said Dr. Dinnes.

PETA admitted that they did not have access to privileged information.

Source: MJFC / newspress.com

http://www.myspace.com/TheKingOfPop/blog/81136957

“Under my watch this can never happen”! But then, under Martin Dinnes’s watch, no ruthless stoning of a lion or neglect of a “poor chained giraffe” could never happen either – not to mention the total absurdity of accusing Michael of cruelty. ALL people who knew Michael said that he was unable to hurt even a fly!

PETA later somewhat backed on their accusations. Their Lisa Wathne said:

  • “Because Neverland is not open to the public, it’s very difficult to get information about the place. But when we hear accusations like that – and many accusations – we have to take note.”

Dear PETA, you shouldn’t be listening to sources like Victor Gutierrez in the first place and then you won’t find yourself in embarrassing situations like the above. You could have approached the well-respected vet Martin Dinnes who would have told you that Michael provided for the animals even after leaving Neverland. Since the upkeep of the animals cost a fortune it forced Michael to find his animals new homes.  He gave the job to Martin Dinnes:

Thriller and Sabu from Michael's Zoo. Michael seemed to take special care for each of his animals to have a mate!

The animal rights activist Tippy Hedren, who shared the vet with Michael Jackson, received his tigers “Thriller” and “Sabu” and said the animals were in perfect condition and had enjoyed the best of care while in Neverland:

“Tippi Hedren is best known as the mother of Melanie Griffith. She is also known for her lifelong love and commitment to animal rights, particularly “the big cats” […] at The Roar Foundation’s Shambala Preserve near Acton, California, which she founded in 1983.

This is the place where Jackson’s Tigers Sabu and Thriller were blessed to go live when he had to give them up for adoption. I asked her about the treatment of Jackson’s tigers knowing that her experience qualifies her to know when animals arrive at her sanctuary having been abused or mistreated, “They were absolutely beautifully treated. Animal organizations actually doctored photos.”

I also learned that for a three year period she and Michael Jackson shared their veterinarian, Martin Dinnes, who she has been in partnership with for over 30 years.

She said, Everything was perfect for those animals, they had the best food, best human care, wonderful areas to live, it was spectacular. He loved those animals. When Michael had the financial problems he asked Marty (her vet) to find the best homes in the U.S. for them. Michael once said about his animals, “Everything that I love is behind those gates. We have elephants, and giraffes, and crocodiles, and every kind of tigers and lions. And – and we have busloads of kids, who don’t get to see those things. They come up, sick children, and enjoy it.” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-mannino/michael-jackson-loved-his_b_224324.html

For the record, PETA is trying to make up for the wrong done to Michael as now they are playing a totally different tune. In their letter to Michael’s children requesting them to turn Neverland into a sanctuary for neglected animals they say that Michael Jackson was well-known for his love for animals and that they praised him for his affection for them:

  • “Your father showed his well-known love for exotic animals by building a zoo at Neverland and through his notable affection for his chimpanzee companion, Bubbles. We praised your father for having made the responsible decision to relocate Bubbles to a true sanctuary where he could live with other primates. By turning Neverland into a sanctuary, you could both honor your father’s memory and provide a safe haven for animals like Bubbles—while also educating the public about the plight of captive exotic animals. 
  • “Michael realized that Bubbles belonged with others of his kind in a loving and safe environment, and we hope that Prince Michael and Paris will honor his memory by doing the same for other animals,” says PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk. http://www.peta.org/mediacenter/news-releases/PETA-Calls-On-Michael-Jackson-s-Kids-to-Make-Neverland-a-True-Animal-Sanctuary–Not-a-Roadside-Zoo.aspx

Isn’t it incredible to first hear all those horror stories about the “poor plight” of Michael’s animals and then see them replaced by the praise of Jackson for taking Bubbles  into a “loving and safe environment”? What fantastic U-turns Michael’s fate is making! Life is full of wonders indeed…

However we have almost forgotten about our liar Victor Gutierrez. If you think that he is finished with his “animal lies” you are too good of an opinion about Gutierrez. He is far from finished:

“Michael took us to the chimpanzee cage,” Jordie said. “Then he grabbed between his legs and called upon the monkeys to do the same. He told me they were trained. The chimpanzees held their penises and began to play with their penises in front of us. My little sister didn’t understand what was happening, so I got her out of there. For Michael, it was fun and he told us to watch.”

 Jackson’s  security guards were witnesses to the fact that the children didn’t find it very amusing to watch the chimpanzees play with themselves in front of them. “Some of the kids laughed at first, but wanted to go when they continued doing it,” said Ralph Chacon. “Michael asked them not to go and asked them if they knew what the animals were doing. The kids just shrugged their shoulders without knowing what was happening. We couldn’t do anything.”

Firstly, let me remind you that “Jordie” didn’t keep a diary and didn’t meet with Gutierrez or anyone else from the press for the simple reason that he was not allowed to do so by the confidentiality agreement.  Maureen Orth tried to make him breach it but she never succeeded and didn’t go as far as Jordan’s uncle. So if Jordan rejected Maureen Orth of the Vanity Fair magazine, intimate talks between him and a sleazebag like Gutierrez (Ray Chandler’s expression) are simply out of the question. Incidentally Victor Gutierrez never claimed that he had a chance to talk to Jordan.

But if Jordan didn’t say that, who could have been a witness to that memorable scene (if it ever happened at all)? Other children? But even Tom Sneddon didn’t double check that narration with Brett Barnes or Wade Robson at the 2005 trial – he was probably afraid that the expression on their faces at hearing those questions would impress the jury so much that it would ruin the case altogether.

Could Ralph Chacon have told that story as Gutierrez claims in his book? He could, only Ralph Chacon said in his testimony that he didn’t make any statements to Victor Gutierrez! He was probably lying in court but to me it doesn’t change the essence of this person – if he is capable to lie under oath he is all the more capable to lie in other situations:

Q. Mr. Mesereau mentioned something about an

individual called Victor Gutierrez. Do you remember that?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were you ever paid any money by Mr. Gutierrez?

A. No, sir. 5277

Q. Did you ever give him a statement at all?

A. No, sir.

No, trying to find proof of Gutierrez’s lies is a totally useless job. When you start looking into his “evidence” it dissolves into a mere nothing the moment you ask for it. And this makes me think that the situation with the chimps (if it ever took place at all) could be exactly the opposite one and it was Michael who discouraged the group of children from viewing the sexual activities the naughty chimps were involved in. Knowing how old-fashioned Michael was – with those paper pieces stuck to nude pictures or being ashamed to have sex outside marriage until a very ripe age – this will be exactly the behavior you could expect of him in a situation like this.

As regards the author’s claims that the chimps were “trained” to show those tricks let me remind you that the media also used to say that Bubbles was “trained to moonwalk” – however I’ve recently learned that it is natural for chimps as they always walk backside when they play. Here is an article about Bubbles’ life after leaving Neverland which contains this information:

Bubbles the chimpanzee  28 Jun 2010

Few will need reminding that Jackson’s highest-profile pet was a chimpanzee named Bubbles. After rescuing him from a research centre in the early Eighties he took him on his Bad world tour.

Bubbles wowed fans by mimicking his moonwalk on stage and the two became inseparable. At Neverland, the ape slept in a cot in the singer’s bedroom and used his lavatory.

However, after the birth of Jackson’s son Prince Michael Jnr, Bubbles – who was growing into moody adolescence – was deemed potentially dangerous and moved to a sanctuary for Hollywood animals.

For the past six years he has resided in Florida at the Center For Great Apes. Half of the money needed for his care – which costs £12,000 per year – is still provided by Jackson’s estate.

‘Michael owned Bubbles all these years,’ says Patti Ragan, who runs the centre. ‘He would visit him, but he couldn’t handle him anymore.

‘Chimps that appear on television are almost always very young. When they grow up they get very big and have huge canine teeth. They become very dangerous so can’t work around actors and entertainers.’

Bubbles, Ragan says, is now 26 years old and weighs nearly 13 stone. ‘It isn’t pink anymore,’ Ragan says. ‘When chimpanzees get older their faces get covered in more and more black freckles and turn a beautiful, dark rich colour.’

The chimp, like his owner, is also very fond of children. ‘There are some youngsters in his group, little kids, and he loves to play games with them,’ she says.

However, Ragan says categorically that Bubbles does not dance and dismisses reports that he attempted to commit suicide after hearing of Jackson’s death, or that there were ever any plans for him to attend the funeral.

‘All chimpanzees walk backwards if they’re playing so his moonwalking was nothing special,’ she says.

‘This is a 180lb great ape, not a chimp baby in a red suit. He is not a person.’

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/7843202/Michael-Jacksons-menagerie.html

So Bubbles grew big and Michael couldn’t handle him anymore and placed the chimp in the best possible surrounding (according to PETA), visited him and his estate continues to provide for this grown-up ape which is what Michael Jackson evidently did himself when he was alive? And how long were they telling us the opposite – about Michael’s cruelty – following Gutierrez’s crazy stories? I hope these people are very much ashamed of their behavior now…

If we are more or less finished with the ‘animal’ lies from Gutierrez let us get down to the next ones which are essentially the same sh*t, but this time in the literal meaning of the word:

A case of Gutierrez’s severe diarrhea and the story of a poor maid who had to handle it

The diarrhea story is very spectacular of course, but from the point of view of lying is practically useless. It doesn’t add anything to the “molestation” nonsense the author is so keen on (at least on the face of it), so Gutierrez’s sole intention in reciting it is the unspeakable humiliation to which he wants to subject the main character of his novel.

Imagining that anyone would like telling about his enemas to his alleged “lover”, guard, or even a maid is equal to imagining that these people will be terribly interested in hearing such a story. Frankly, I have never heard even very outspoken people to dwell on the details of their enemas, so imagining that a shy and introvert guy would do so would be too much of a job for my imagination… However Gutierrez goes further than that and claims that the man not only profusely talked about it but allowed the boy to see the process and for hours too.

This is really too much…. Does Gutierrez mean to say that watching this scene for hours is a new way to win love from anyone at all? So you see the absurdity of the story even though you haven’t read it yet?

Despite the whole thing being totally ridiculous I will still refrain from repeating it the way it is related in the book. Since I am afraid to do damage to MJ by quoting it I decided to change the name of the main character to another one – for example, Gutierrez (any coincidence in names is purely incidental, as you understand). However if you wish to apply this scene to our Gutierrez I don’t mind it either, as the whole of this book is about the beauty of the author’s true being anyway.

Here is a slightly shortened version of his indescribable chapter with some of my changes introduced to the text:

“Jordi and [Gutierrez’s] relationship was already like that of a couple. Jordie was seeing intimate details of [his] life that nobody else in the world would imagine about [him]. One of these was to see his friend, the most famous man in the world, insert hot liquids into his anus with a special bottle. “I didn’t understand what that was for,” Jordie confessed to his best friend. “I saw him do it for hours. He told me that it felt good, it excited him and that many people did it for hygiene. I had seen an ‘ass washer’ in his bathroom, as he called that little toilet where he sat to wash himself. He would move around in the bathroom with pleasure when he did it. At first it seemed strange, but later I got used to seeing it. He told me that his sister did it to lose weight.”

A small note from Wiki as regards the “pleasure” of enemas:

  • An enema is the procedure of introducing liquids into the rectum and colon via the anus. The increasing volume of the liquid causes rapid expansion of the lower intestinal tract, often resulting in very uncomfortable bloating, cramping, powerful peristalsis, a feeling of extreme urgency and complete evacuation of the lower intestinal tract. An enema has the advantage over any laxative in its speed of action, and some people prefer it for this reason.

As someone who has also experienced this doubtful pleasure I can assure you that the “uncomfortable feeling of bloating and cramping” is  indeed very much there, so I don’t know how anyone’s perverse imagination could suggest the possibility of anyone “moving around the bathroom with pleasure” after it….

Gutierrez claims that several employees were informed about these enemas:

“The boy’s observations were confirmed by several of [Gutierrez’s] private employees who worked with him during different years. “I know very well what enemas are. I saw bottles in a pointed shape and another wide one for the liquid in his bathroom,” said Adrian MacManus, personal maid of the [man], who replaced Blanca Francia, and thus inherited the role of being the only employee who had access to his bedroom. “I was the one who cleaned them. He had an enema daily.”

The only employee who had access to his bedroom? Let us remember this point. In the meantime here is a note from Wiki which says that there is no need to “clean” any enema bottles any longer as most of them come as disposables with pre-packaged liquids in them – so “cleaning” those bottles was most probably added by Gutierrez just for the effect of it:

  • “many self-given enemas used at home are the pre-packaged, disposable, sodium phosphate solutions in single-use bottles sold under a variety of brand names, or in generic formats. In medical or hospital environments, reusable enema equipment is now rare because of the expense of disinfecting a water-based solution”.

Now that we’ve reached this stage I cannot help asking a few questions:

–      Isn’t it strange that Gutierrez is constantly preoccupied with a feces issue? Why is he?

–      Why did the guests who stayed in MJ’s bedroom and surely used his bathroom never notice a barrage of enema bottles there and never mention them?

–      Why don’t the maids of other famous people tell the press about their bosses’ enemas?

–      Why would people throw away in disgust a book about enemas which Diane Dimond, Larry Feldman or Tom Sneddon have (for example) but would read with relish this journalist’s opus about MJ’s similar procedure (if he had any)?

–      What would be the right word for the literature telling all these details and with very much excitement too? Will the word ‘shit literature’ be appropriate here?

The author of this literary product is going on with his revelations:

“Another person who remembered this habit of the [man] was Orietta Murdock. “Of course he used enemas. I was the one who bought the pressure bottles in the pharmacy when I worked for him. I remember being embarrassed because I bought them so frequently that I thought the pharmacists looked at me funny. I couldn’t tell them, ‘Hey…these aren’t for me, they’re for [Gutierrez].’ It would have been amusing to see their faces.

It would also be amusing to see the face of a female secretary of a young and handsome guy – let us say president of a big company – if he asks her to go to a pharmacy and buy him bottles for enemas. It would be amusing to see his face too… Don’t they have home-delivery services in America so that poor secretaries have to run round pharmacies in search of enema bottles?

He told me, ‘My sister uses them, too, because she has a big butt and wants to lose weight.’ Another way in which he lost weight was to eat steak, French fries and hamburgers one day and drink only liquids the next. But I believe that the enemas were for pure sexual pleasure, since he was already very thin and didn’t need them to lose weight.” [You have definitely noticed a very specific Gutierrez’s touch to the narration].

Blanca Francia was also a witness to his enemas. “I saw the boxes from the pharmacy and the bottles with strange liquids, and I asked him what they were. He told me that they were to lose weight. ‘It doesn’t hurt,’ he explained, ‘it actually feels good. I’m already used to it.’ I was surprised. I had never known anyone to practice that [Strange she doesn’t know – this method is old as life itself].  But now I think that he did it for pleasure.” [Everyone “now” thinks that it is for pleasure, but no one thinks of it being used for its primary purpose! How very typical of Gutierrez it is!]

One employee had access to these instruments [enema bottles] and took them home to show a friend, who didn’t believe that he used them [these people took everything they wanted from his home!]. The instruments were never returned [they say themselves that they stole them?], and are still being kept as a souvenir, among other objects belonging to him. “Together I hope to surprise people with this strange, small museum that I have in my house.”[Stealing things for souvenirs? And doing it long enough to collect a sort of a museum? And this in addition to that Elvis Presley drawing stolen from MJ? Why didn’t they put Adrian McManus into jail for her home museum of stolen things? Their small price shouldn’t confuse anyone – intimate things belonging to a celebrity can cost millions if passed to a tabloid]  

During interviewing for my book, I had the opportunity to see this employee’s “collection.”[I just remembered the so-called confidentiality agreement which these people seemed to constantly breach and what a nightmare it must have been for Michael to live with all these spies and enemies behind his back]

I would recommend that if it does someday become public, one should take a camera so that his or her friends believe it. [and so that there is proof of Adrian McManus’s stealing from Neverland, breaking law and all rules of human decency].

Dear readers, if you haven’t had enough of it yet, the follow-up will be something totally indescribable. If you feel you are not strong enough for the real sh*t from Victor Gutierrez (in the literal meaning of the word), please skip several paragraphs. I have changed some of the names though:

Aside from the enemas and the joy they gave to [him], [Gutierrez] had another habit that not only surprised Jordie, but also other boys and employees of the [man]. “Jordie told me that he had seen [Gutierrez] insert different types of feminine hygiene products in his behind. I could hardly believe it at first,” said a friend of Jordie’s who asked to remain anonymous. “But after all of the personal things he told me about him and [Gutierrez] I have no doubt that it’s the truth.” [so not only all boys and employees allegedly knew of this alleged habit, but the friends of their friends allegedly knew every detail too! And these ‘sources’ naturally wanted to remain anonymous!]

Adrian MacManus confirmed this account. “That is nothing new.” “Everyone at the ranch knew. [The boss never made secret of it and EVERYONE at the ranch was allegedly informed!] I threw tampons in the trash after finding them on the floor in the bathroom and near his bed. They were covered with feces and blood. Imagine he used them more often than I did.” [Oh, WHY WHY WHY didn’t Tom Sneddon, Gil Garcetti and the police didn’t use them as evidence of some “perversion” in their 1993 investigation if they were lying about so freely? This is much more impressive than someone’s odd socks and a pair of soiled underpants found before the 2005 trial!]

Blanca Francia also remembers Jackson’s tampons. “Now I can’t believe the stupid things I put up with to keep my job.” The male employees who saw the dirty tampons asked what was going on with their boss. [So the male employees also “saw” them? How come they could “see them” unless Adrian McManus was running about the ranch showing the trash to each and every one despite her status of a personal maid and the confidentiality agreement she allegedly signed?]

“I knew that the people in Hollywood were strange and did different things than most, but I had never seen so much strange stuff in one room,” said security guard Ralph Chacon. [Didn’t Gutierrez say it himself that Adrian McManus was the only employee who entered that bedroom? And that it was a “sanctuary” where very few were admitted? So how could Ralph Chacon “see” anything in that room if he was not allowed in? Especially if he worked on night shifts only? And especially if he said in his 2005 testimony he never confided in Gutierrez and made statements to him?]

Dear readers, you think that you’ve had enough of this garbage? Well, Gutierrez has not really started yet!

The continuation of his BS is even more impressive than its beginning. It tells us of the alleged numerous occurrences of diarrhea witnessed by one maid, another maid and some of the guards (actually the same Neverland Five). The man allegedly “didn’t even care” when and where it happened to him. He “did it wherever it happened to him”! Knowing that Michael gave three-hour shows day after day and for months too when he was on a tour all this looks like a ridiculous lie told with extremely malicious intent. However the most incredible touch to the whole narration is that the clothes after these alleged accidents were allegedly not thrown away – no, they were allegedly given to the maid for washing!

Victor Gutierrez overdid it again – he was so eager to humiliate the man and show the plight of the poor personal maid who had to do this disgusting job that he took his ridiculous story to a totally absurd note.

Even I with my modest means will not bother to keep the clothes dirty with diarrhea and will throw them away –  so saying that a multi-millionaire just wanted them to be washed and willing to put them on again is like … like… I cannot find the right comparison… it is simply like having only one piece of clothes and having nothing else to wear! The homeless living in the street would probably be in a better situation – as charity helps them – than the multi-millionaire Gutierrez is describing here….

The following is the nastiest part of all from Gutierrez and I will understand you perfectly well if you skip it altogether:

“”I was talking with him about something not so important,” remembers Adrian, “when he told me that he had to go to the bathroom. He didn’t take two steps when he defecated right there in front of me. It was a diarrhea that ran down to his shoes. It was a shame. The guards that saw it went to another room to have a laugh.”[this is indescribable…. what kind of a mentality should a person have to speak or write about anything like this? And what were the guards allegedly doing in the house all the time? As far as I know their duty was to walk the outside premises only, but Gutierrez describes them as if they were always in the same room!]. “He slowly hobbled to the bathroom, dirtying the floor along the way. He later brought me his clothes to clean. It made me sick. The other employees were teasing me, laughing and yelling, ‘how does it feel to be his personal assistant?’ It was very distressing.” [No, it is totally indescribable….. So the clothes were dirty all over, and he collected them and brought them to her for cleaning? How many of us would do the same instead of throwing the clothes into a plastic garbage bag? NO ONE? And those present allegedly yelled and laughed! No, all this is totally indescribable…]

“Unfortunately for him, it wasn’t the last time, according to Kassim Abdul [Gutierrez is definitely overdoing it – if you listen to him the Neverland Five were permanent witnesses to everything happening in and outside the house!] . “The poor guy couldn’t make it to the bathroom, and it got to the point that he didn’t even care. If he had to go, he did it right there, wherever he was [Presumably in front of the children, their parents and numerous guests! Why doesn’t any of them remember anything like that? I wonder what Brett Barnes and Wade Robson would say to that?]  “Poor Adrian was the one who suffered, but at times we would help her pick up the dirtied clothes and clean the floor [Didn’t Kassim Abdul and Ralph Chacon say in their testimonies that they worked on night shifts only – so how could they witness what Adrian and Blanca saw while working in the daytime? And help them do the cleaning too if they were physically not there?] “He would put tampons in his ass to stop the diarrhea. He thought that we wouldn’t tell anybody anything, since all employees had to sign a contract indicating that we could not reveal anything we saw or heard on his properties.”

If their boss thought they would never tell lies to anyone he was thinking too well of them…. “All employees had to sign a contract?” So why didn’t it prevent them from telling all that filth then? Didn’t they know that they could be sued for millions, tens or even hundreds of millions for breaching the agreement in such a despicable way?

But since they knew of the consequences can it be that the whole of the above is simply a pathological lie from our wholly pathological Victor Gutierrez? Yes, it can! But what can be the purpose of all his BS  then? And why is Gutierrez finding so much pleasure in this issue at all? What is wrong with him if he is so fixed on it?

Gutierrez indeed acts as if he is obsessed with the subject of “anus”, “feces” , “pleasures of enemas” and the like and this small peculiarity – noticeable in other episodes of the book too – made me have a closer look at the subject. The first thing I studied was the matter of “enemas being a pleasurable experience”. Frankly it was the first time I heard about it and the first person who told me that was Victor Gutierrez.

Victor Gutierrez: "I AM NOT GAY, MY PARTNER IS GAY"

This suddenly made me remember that Victor Gutierrez is gay, but a gay who says that it is his partners who are gay and not him… Wiki tells us more about this subject or otherwise we would have never learned about it ourselves:

  •  “An enema may also be used prior to anal sex or anilingus in order to enhance the sensation of intercourse, or to remove feces prior to sex, possibly reducing bacterial transmission and risk of infection, or just to reduce the possibility of fecal material adhering to the genitals or sex toys used during the subsequent activity. …In males, enemas can stimulate the prostate gland. Unexpected erections are common in medical settings, even if the person would otherwise consider it an unpleasant procedure.”

See what it is? It is probably Gutierrez’s own hygiene or love play techniques coming prior to anal sex acts that he is describing with so much knowledge in this book! Gutierrez wants us to think that MJ was gay and is therefore projecting himself and his own sexual preferences onto Michael this way!

Victor Gutierrez may have heard from someone that Michael and Janet were using enemas for losing weight (this is a rather well-known method, especially in combination with a diet) and then it was a matter of sheer technicality for Gutierrez to turn this innocent piece of news into another of his horror stories similar to a lion “living in filth” or a “chained giraffe dragged  by a truck with its skin scraped off its neck”.

The final touch Gutierrez gives to his enema story is linking all this business to Jordan (who allegedly saw him doing it for “hours”) and voila – here we are led to thinking that the man was not only homosexual but a homosexual allegedly involved with boys…..  No, Gutierrez is a complete devil to say the very least….. He pours this torrent of lies, innuendos and downright mockery on the poor heads of his readers knowing full well that they will be shocked to such an extreme that it will make them unable to see that the story is a total farce! A farce where nothing, absolutely nothing, fits in:

–      If someone wants to win another person’s heart he doesn’t sit in front of him for hours having enemas and suffering from the resulting diarrhea

–       This other person will not inform the ‘journalist’ of such intimate details for the simple reason that he never spoke to him personally and never kept a diary which this ‘journalist’ is allegedly using (let us remember that Victor Gutierrez never claimed that he had talked to Jordan. The only thing he referred to was his diary which never existed)

–      The performer who is capable of giving three-hour long shows every other day for several months running cannot suffer from any such diarrhea described by this “journalist” – or otherwise much more people would have had first-hand information about his problem

–      Even a person with a small budget will not wash the clothes soaked in liquid feces (unless he has nothing else to wear), so saying it about a man possessing millions and a huge wardrobe is preposterous

–      The guards working on night shifts cannot be physically in the same room as the maids working in the daytime and witness the same scenes as they do. Neither can they  ‘help them do the cleaning’ for the same reason.

–      This is all the more true if the same guards say in their 2005 testimony that they never made any statements to the author about this or any other episode (Ralph Chacon, for example, in whose name this BS story is being told by Gutierrez)

–      People in general will be highly unlikely to confide in a “poor Latino reporter” if they are bound by the confidentiality agreement and are terrified by the consequences of its breaching so much that this terror prevents them from telling the truth about the alleged “molestation” at Neverland. They simply cannot be simultaneously carefree about breaching the agreement over one thing and be terrified to breach it over another thing – it is either this or that, as a breach of a contract is a breach of a contract no matter what you are speaking about.

–       So if they did talk to the “journalist” it means they were never afraid of any “confidentiality agreement” and this pretext is just another of their BS lies. They either never saw anything or were covering up for the “molester” and should accompany him to prison for being his accomplices

–      If three women (two maids and a secretary) tell you that they now think that a man can derive pleasure from an enema it means that a certain author – practicing it himself – evidently enlightened them on the subject.  For women it is totally impossible to know that an enema can arouse a male and contribute to an erection as they simply haven’t got a prostate in their physiology. So these three women have evidently had prolonged discussions with the above knowledgeable author and have learned from him innumerable perverse stories of the same type.

–      The above author is using the pretext of making an investigation into the life of a famous singer for publishing his totally indecent and pornographic stories in which he is actually exhibiting himself and his own way of life. He gets away with revealing it to the world only because he speaks about someone else, attributes all the crucial texts to other people, while he himself is staying aside and is greatly enjoying the fun of it.

These are only some of the conclusions from the above diarrhea farce – please feel free to add your own ideas if you wish.

To finalize the 2nd part of the post about Gutierrez let me provide you with another of his big lies which will go with no comment on my part. By now you can probably see for yourself that Gutierrez is capable to say anything about Michael Jackson (or everyone if you ask my opinion) and the scope, character and absurdity of his lies are reaching such a point that all this multitude of lies turns into its opposite and serves as the best rebuttal of itself.

I hope you understand what I mean when you read this:

Story of a mysterious grave in Neverland and a small skeleton inside it

“As the investigation and the battle in the press intensified, the employees at the Neverland ranch faced a dilemma. Were they going to cooperate with the authorities and tell the truth, or were they going to remain loyal to Jackson. As the employees did not know how the investigation would go, they didn’t know which road to take. They were used to covering up for Jackson. Once the gardener found a small skeleton buried at Jackson’s ranch, and showed it to Kassim Abdul. “It looked like a baby,” commented Abdul. “There were small bones. But nobody at the ranch could tell whether it was a baby or whether it was a small dog, as someone suggested. My superiors told me that it was just a dog and I shouldn’t say anything to the authorities. They said that I shouldn’t even mention it again to the other employees.” Nobody has spoken of it again, nor reported it to the authorities,” said Abdul.”

Should Victor Gutierrez be placed into a mental institution?

After reading the above innuendo at a murder allegedly committed at Neverland and not disclosed to the authorities by its criminal employees I suggest the following action on our part:

–      We can notify the authorities that the guards concealed the fact of an alleged “murder of a baby” in Neverland. Though the possibility of such a crime is a total zero, it doesn’t make any difference as the police should nevertheless keep an eye on the people who are (theoretically) capable of being accomplices to a murderer.

–      We can notify the authorities that the guards thought that an alleged “molestation” was taking place but nevertheless decided to “cover up” for it (the fact they confessed themselves). The authorities should do something about these people who (theoretically) can be accomplices to child molesters too. The least they can do is make them attend lectures on how a responsible citizen should act if he sees molestation with his own eyes.

–     Or we can start collecting signatures under a petition to the authorities to put Victor Gutierrez into a respective mental institution for giving him some corrective treatment there. At the moment Gutierrez is living in Los Angeles so some American mental treatment facility will probably be able to help him.

SHOULD VICTOR GUTIERREZ BE PLACED IN A MENTAL INSTITUTION?

IN MY OPINION HE SHOULD.

(to be continued)

126 Comments leave one →
  1. June 3, 2016 5:42 pm

    “Hi, Helena do you anything about Orietta Murdock and her role in the allegations?” -EM

    Yes, I do, but I still need to round it up. For a start I suggest you read this post https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2015/11/05/stacy-browns-lies-about-20-victims-and-200-million-allegedly-paid-by-michael-jackson/ which started a series about the court documents. You will find there some information about Orietta Murdock.

    Like

  2. May 31, 2016 1:32 am

    Hi, Helena do you anything about Orietta Murdock and her role in the allegations? Could you give me some links if you have them. I am doing a Youtube channel on the Chandler allegations soon, so I would like all the information I need. Thank you.

    Like

  3. July 13, 2012 2:52 am

    Just to be fair about Jermaine, this is what Anne Kite said during the trial

    Q. When you went and spoke with Jermaine

    Jackson, can you tell me how that meeting came

    together?

    A. I had been speaking with Rita Cosby from

    FOX. She suggested that I might want to call

    Jermaine Jackson because he was very concerned about

    his brother. She gave Mr. Jackson my telephone

    number.

    He called me. We spoke. He asked if I’d be

    willing to come and meet with him. And I told him 508

    yes, I would. And I went.

    Q. And you expressed concern about some of the

    team members to Mr. Jermaine Jackson?

    A. Yes, I did.

    Q. Did you express any other concerns about Mr.

    Jackson to Jermaine at that time?

    A. Yes, I did.

    Q. What did you tell him?

    A. I expressed concern about his –

    MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Relevance; 352;

    foundation.

    MR. AUCHINCLOSS: The full conversation.

    THE COURT: Overruled.

    THE WITNESS: I expressed concern about Mr.

    Jackson’s financial situation.

    Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: In what respect?

    A. Um –

    MR. MESEREAU: Objection, Your Honor. The

    Court’s ruling.

    THE COURT: Sustained.

    Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Did Mr. Jermaine

    Jackson indicate whether or not he was close to his

    brother during this conversation?

    A. I don’t think he ever said he was close to

    his brother, but he didn’t say he was distant

    either. He indicated great concern about his

    brother.

    Q. Did he indicate whether or not he had 509

    communications with his brother?

    A. Yes, he did.

    Like

  4. Rodrigo permalink
    July 12, 2012 8:24 pm

    I can’t believe how many people are roped in by the National Enquirer. Tons of people on the Daily Mail website are quick to assume that the stories about Tom Cruises and Katie Holmes’ personal life is true and that he’s only suing American Media Inc. to silence them.

    If only they knew that about what they tried to do with Michael. Sheepeople.

    Like

  5. July 12, 2012 1:32 pm

    Summer, I know that National Enquirer offered $200,000 to the Newt family to claim that MJ “molested” one or both of their twin boys. And the father even agreed to sign a contract for it but changed his mind at the last moment and wrote “No good sucker” where his signature was supposed to go. Here is a link to that case: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152708,00.html

    And no, I have not read Jermaine Jackson’s book yet because – frankly – I am not really interested in what he is saying. I remember his awful song about Michael and this is all I need to know about the way he used to treat Michael. I also read that there was no love lost between Michael and Jermaine after that, though Michael did forgive him as he always did. He simply didn’t want to associate with Jermaine and that’s it.

    But I also think that it is none of our business to judge. Jermaine’s today’s attempts to speak up for Michael may be his way of feeing remorse for all the damage he did to his brother. There might be an element of self-promotion in it too, but the general impression is that he is genuinely frustrated by Michael’s death. The pain of losing someone often helps people to reevaluate things in life.

    Whatever the case with Jermaine I think that we are not in a position to harass him for what he did. First, we simply have no right to, and second, his own conscience may speak even louder to him if we do not. If fans start attacking him he will retreat into his cave and feel a victim (and will have certain grounds for it). If they do not, his conscience may do the job of repentance all by itself.

    But this is how I look at these things. Now I see that my evaluation of human relations may be totally different from anything customary in your country. I simply don’t understand personal attacks against people. Simply do not understand why and what for they are done. For some reason persons and the ideas they are carrying are often separate things to me. I may be very angry with what people say but at the same time feel sorry for them as humans – for their ignorance, bloated ego, stupidity and emotional complexes consuming them.

    Yes, I do understand that Jermaine started many bad rumors about Michael (probably even about his children not being his?). But I will prefer to simply state his past misdoings to assert the truth (so that it is not lost or distorted), and that’s it. Just as a simple record of events.

    Like

  6. summer permalink
    July 12, 2012 12:35 am

    Read Jermaine Jackson’s book, and you understand how many bad rumors this man started. Did you also know that National Enquirer offered to pay millions to get stories against MJ? These scandals were false, but people bought them as facts. It really was modern day lynchin.

    Like

  7. December 28, 2011 7:13 am

    I find that part of Abdool’s testimony very interesting, he was in direct contact with the tabloids when he worked for MJ

    “Q. And one of your jobs was to try and keep

    19 media people away from Mr. Jackson, right?

    20 A. Keep anybody away from — from the property,

    21 any intruders.

    22 Q. But you were particularly concerned about

    23 tabloid-type people, correct?

    24 A. I would say generally anyone, any type of

    25 intruder.

    26 Q. But weren’t you particularly concerned about

    27 media attempts to get to Mr. Jackson?

    28 MR. SNEDDON: Object; asked and answered. 7431

    1 THE COURT: Overruled.

    2 You may answer.

    3 THE WITNESS: I — we were concerned — I was

    4 concerned with any intruder on the property.

    5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. And would that

    6 include the media?

    7 A. Yes, sir.

    8 Q. Would that include people who write for

    9 tabloids?

    10 A. Yes, sir.”

    Like

  8. December 28, 2011 7:03 am

    Why did they all forget to say that, after all they spoke together about what they were going to say to the grand jury

    “Q. Now, between the time that you received that

    6 subpoena and the time that you actually appeared

    7 before the grand jury to testify, okay?

    8 A. Okay.

    9 Q. We’re talking about that time frame.

    10 A. Yes.

    11 Q. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Chacon,

    12 Ralph Chacon, about what he saw the night that you

    13 found the swimming trunks side by side in the rest

    14 room?

    15 A. Yes, sir.

    16 Q. And did he tell you what he saw?

    17 A. Yes, sir.”

    Like

  9. December 28, 2011 6:10 am

    I really wondered why Chacon never spoke about the Vaseline, he was with Abdool when it happened

    http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/041505pltsuppmot11081101.pdf

    They all forgot something like that.

    Like

  10. November 26, 2011 1:24 am

    “Victor Gutierrez´s imagination and writings based on it has served as a “source” for so many journalists who have spun their stories in tune with V.G.´s smutty fantasies”

    Oh Kaarin, I’ve just remembered Maureen Orth with her blood baths. I also clearly remember an article retelling Gutierrez’s lie about Michael and some boy stoning a lion in Neverland’s Zoo almost to death. Later I could not find it but the article was a nightmare to read. Only later I found out that it was Gutierrez who started that lie. And the lie was so persistent that Tom Sneddon at the trial asked several former youngsters in Michael’s surrounding what size stones Michael was throwing at the lion (those were small pebbles – they just wanted to make the lion roar).

    Everything VG says should be divided by a hundred, or better a thousand.

    Like

  11. November 26, 2011 12:20 am

    What is really surprising,shocking and sad is that Victor Gutierrez´s imagination and writings based on it has served as a “source” for so many journalists who have spun their stories in tune with V.G.´s smutty fantasies.Hiding behind some law that shields sources.Michael did sue him and won.How come he is back in US? Or is he?.Now that Michael has been killed I am afraid some more may follow in V.G.´s foot steps,maybe on the net or some other way.

    Like

  12. November 25, 2011 6:17 pm

    “Well we know people too, the FBI, and our people beat their people.”

    Lol

    Like

  13. ares permalink
    November 25, 2011 5:34 pm

    Well we know people too, the FBI, and our people beat their people.- Teva

    Looooooooool. I was crying a this.

    Well, David asked him or her to present his or her proofs and he went strangely silent. So i’m guessing that those evidence are just a wishfull thinking of him.

    Like

  14. Teva permalink
    November 25, 2011 6:20 am

    “@ Joe Banks I don’t believe for one second that you actually know people that investigated him. ” – lynande51

    Well we know people too, the FBI, and our people beat their people.

    Like

  15. Teva permalink
    November 25, 2011 6:16 am

    @sanemjfan

    What materials is he talking about? …and what people? By people does he mean the FBI or DFCS? Or does he mean Orth and Dimond.

    By material does he mean love letters, child porn, sex tapes? IDK because the FBI found nothing to convict him with.

    Like

  16. sanemjfan permalink
    November 24, 2011 5:18 pm

    @ Joe Banks
    Would you mind presenting us with those materials? Thank you!

    Like

  17. Suzy permalink
    November 24, 2011 9:23 am

    @ Joe Banks

    If people who investigated him found material that would change everybody’s mind why didn’t they present that damning evidence in court?

    Like

  18. lynande51 permalink
    November 24, 2011 9:13 am

    @ Joe Banks I don’t believe for one second that you actually know people that investigated him. Give us names. Another thing that I have found interesting in my life experiences is that sometimes a self proclaimed open mind like yours is nothing more than an empty mind that repeats and believes everything that it is told by those who know nothing.
    I can also say without a doubt that nobody feels sympathy for a pedophile but another pedophile. The rest of us recognize what they are and that is what Victor Gutierrez is.
    It is time for the Michael Jackson detractors to get used to something and that is; that it is you that have the closed minds when all we have done is provide the facts for you to read. A closed mind is like a closed door, there is is no point in talking to it.

    Like

  19. Joe Banks permalink
    November 24, 2011 8:33 am

    To vindicate a child molester like Michael Jackson is just sick! I know people who investigated him, several times. The materials they found would change your mind, if only your mind were open to the truth!

    Like

  20. June 19, 2011 9:57 pm

    “I don’t feel comfortable reading that gutierez book. To me he seems like he is projecting his own desires through that piece of junk. Disturbing.”

    OMG, Ares, what a delicate way of saying it! I couldn’t read it for several months because each time I started it gave me the feeling of nausea. Frankly, I can’t even understand when it suddenly changed – evidently when the amount of truth we had learned about Michael exceeded the damage Gutierrez’s lies were doing.

    As regards Gutierrez projecting his own desires through this piece of junk you are absolutely right! All of us who have read the book felt it very acutely but our problem was how to convey the same feeling to our readers – we cannot repeat what Gutierrez is saying and we cannot leave him alone because it is becoming all too clear that Gutierrez has personal knowledge of the subject. If he is really what we think him to be it means that this kind of a person was consulting Diane Dimond all these years, was working as a producer on NBS during the 2005 trial and was making filthy documentaries on ABC together with Bashir!

    If he so clearly projected his own personality through this book, how much more did he project himself in various filthy stories about Michael while cooperating with all these media channels???

    Like

  21. Linda permalink
    June 17, 2011 3:55 am

    @ Jan
    A friend has brought this to my attention:

    directsattv.com/directv/direct-tv-blog/Trials-of-Michael-Jackson-hits-Documentary-Channel.html

    just thought I would share it.

    Wow, this sounds very interesting. I hope it is really well done. I’ll be watching for it, or buying it. It’s about time someone shows the truth on public tv for everyone to see what really happened in that trial and expose all the bs that has caused so many people to still think Michael was guilty. Thanks for putting this info out there, I can’t wait to see it.

    Like

  22. shelly permalink
    June 16, 2011 3:30 am

    One of the fans on imdb told me that she spoke to Barnes and he told her his mom wanted to sue Sneddon for harassment. I never asked him about that myself.

    Like

  23. Suzy permalink
    June 16, 2011 3:23 am

    @ Shelly

    Poor Brett, they didn’t leave him alone, did they?

    Like

  24. shelly permalink
    June 16, 2011 1:37 am

    Tom Sneddon obsession

    “It was also revealed that Mr. Sneddon had traveled to Australia in search of other alleged victims of Mr. Jackson and that an alleged victim from the 1993 case had been interviewed in 1999 by a sheriff’s detective.”

    http://site2.mjeol.com/mjeol-bullet/pt-3-1993-investigation-not-a-problem-for-defense-–-mb-254.html

    Like

  25. June 15, 2011 2:53 pm

    Agree with Shelley.Rodrigo go back to te site you love and leave this alone.
    You are just a nuisance. Make your own beloved site poular if you wish to be heard.

    Like

  26. shelly permalink
    June 15, 2011 1:52 pm

    You forget all the legal documents.

    Like

  27. Suzy permalink
    June 15, 2011 12:24 pm

    VG’s book even contradicts with Ray Chandler’s.

    The scene where Evan drugges up Michael and asks him if he’s gay and he says he isn’t, is there. But the part about Michael swarming about Jordan is not there, that’s VG’s own invention.

    BTW, this proves that the Chandlers did collaborate with VG originally in writing his book. He could not have known about this detail where Michael got drugged up if the Chandlers didn’t talk to him about it.

    Like

  28. ares permalink
    June 15, 2011 11:47 am

    I don’t feel comfortable reading that gutierez book. To me he seems like he is projecting his own desires through that piece of junk. Disturbing.

    Like

  29. shelly permalink
    June 15, 2011 10:56 am

    So according to VG, Evan knew MJ wanted to live with his son, slept in the same bed and told him that

    But he never suspected anything?

    Like

  30. shelly permalink
    June 15, 2011 10:53 am

    Like

  31. shelly permalink
    June 15, 2011 10:52 am

    How many weekends MJ spend at Evan’s house? Because, according to VG Evan never suspected anything during that week end

    Like

  32. shelly permalink
    June 15, 2011 9:55 am

    I also wonder what Carrie Fisher thinks of that book.

    Like

  33. shelly permalink
    June 15, 2011 9:22 am

    I wonder sometimes if VG realised how stupid he is. How old was Jordy when he first met MJ?

    The second times he met him he was 4. According to VG at 2 or 3, he was already so in love with MJ that he couldn’t eat when he met him.

    Like

  34. jan permalink
    June 14, 2011 12:33 pm

    A friend has brought this to my attention:

    directsattv.com/directv/direct-tv-blog/Trials-of-Michael-Jackson-hits-Documentary-Channel.html

    just thought I would share it.

    Like

  35. Teva permalink
    June 12, 2011 10:17 pm

    How do you know it is the “June Chandler”?

    Like

  36. June 12, 2011 9:49 pm

    You can track it all through real estate websites. She lived at the house in LA from 2004-2010.

    Like

  37. shelly permalink
    June 12, 2011 8:33 pm

    “June Chandler sold her LA house in June of 2010 for $1.7 million dollars, then moved to another house in California, the address is known to fans. She isn’t hidden at all.”

    How do you know that?

    Like

  38. June 12, 2011 8:01 pm

    If MJ had been falsely convicted, she would have rolled out the red carpet for Sneddon, Zonen, the Arvizos, the Francias, Orth, Dimond, Grace, Bashir, etc

    Oh wow, could you imagine? They’d be hailed as heros. Gavin would be cracking his jokes and people would be saying how brave he was for surviving all that.

    Make me angry just to think about how true that would be. Ugh… then Evan would crawl out of the woodwork to do a victory dance somewhere and not try and kill his son.

    Like

  39. June 12, 2011 7:54 pm

    June Chandler sold her LA house in June of 2010 for $1.7 million dollars, then moved to another house in California, the address is known to fans. She isn’t hidden at all.

    Like

  40. Okunuga permalink
    June 12, 2011 3:20 pm

    I’ve been wandering a lot about that VG comment about him not being gay but his partner being one,i think he was just admitting that he is probarbly a p…ple and was not attracted to his gay partner just my opinion.

    Like

  41. June 12, 2011 6:31 am

    I’ve wondered if that twice asked two word question found in Michael’s FBI File was another creation of V.G., the Master of Sick “Male Chimp?”

    Like

  42. lcpledwards permalink
    June 12, 2011 6:14 am

    @ Dialdancer
    No indeed! Oprah has never invited Mesereau, or anyone associated with the case, obviously because she was dissatisfied with the verdict! LOL! If MJ had been falsely convicted, she would have rolled out the red carpet for Sneddon, Zonen, the Arvizos, the Francias, Orth, Dimond, Grace, Bashir, etc. Aphrodite Jones and Geraldine Hughes have also tried to get booked on her show, but their efforts were in vain. I guess Oprah feels that “if it don’t make dollars, it don’t make sense!”, i.e. she won’t do shows on MJ’s innocence because the ratings aren’t there (especially while he was alive).

    Like

  43. June 12, 2011 5:50 am

    Has anyone seen a recent picture of V.G, R.C and in particular Jordan?
    A friend said they are hiding in plain sight especially Jordan who most
    people even MJ fans remembers as a kid rather than a 30 year old man.
    Where did June go? It was reported Evan had some minor facial surgery
    done, what about the others?

    “5. Or I will change my mind and I will fight my failure to report ( for reason number 1,2 and 3 ) and ask Bob Sanger or Tom Mesereau to defend my case pro bono:)?”

    I wonder if this man was raised in the church like most Latins? He had a serious problem with “coveting” Michael’s everything. Was going to get Neverland and Michael’s legal team?????

    You notice many will attack Geraldine Jones book, some have tried to invalidate the information in Aphodite’s book, but none have disputed Tom Mersereau when he says Michael was innocent, they roll their eyes or ignore his word continuing to speak of other things; however, none will verbally challenge him face to face. Has Mr. Mesereau ever been invited on Oprah’s show?

    Like

  44. TatumMarie permalink
    June 12, 2011 1:53 am

    So hilarious, Truth Prevail- you have made my day. To see Gavin running like that—Oh My! Lol– Hilarious.

    Like

  45. shelly permalink
    June 12, 2011 1:38 am

    “During interviewing for my book, I had the opportunity to see this employee’s “collection.”

    Poor Adrian, karma is a real bitch I guess.

    Like

  46. ares permalink
    June 11, 2011 10:59 pm

    @ Sara William
    -He is extremely obsessed with feces and shit-

    Maybe that is Victor’s favourite dish that’s why he can’t stop speak about them.

    Like

  47. monica permalink
    June 11, 2011 9:13 pm

    I wondered about VG in front of the TII poster too. It’s almost like returning to the scene of a crime. Wasn’t he afraid fans would recognize him and hurt him? Hmmm, that didn’t last too long. As far as DD goes with the picture in her home… it’s a trophy. Similar to mounting a deer on the wall after (you) have hunted, killed, and slaughtered it. I imagine her thinking to herself, “This is a symbol to me of what I worked for as a journalist. I worked hard for this success and this man is a reminder of my triumph”. Uhhhh. I got a bad feeling just typing that phrase…God….these people make me sick

    Like

  48. June 11, 2011 6:13 pm

    This man Gutierrez is one disgusting creature, he is indeed a pervert wnating to project his self filth image in Michael’s good name.
    He is extremely obsessed with feces and shit ,his crazy sick innuendos are mind blowing desiring to depict Jackson as someone abnormal while he is only writng his own biography LOL..
    I mean either Gutierrez mentally disturbed or he is just an evil wicked sly with completely repulsive mind.
    Thanks Helena for your great work.

    Like

  49. stacy2 permalink
    June 11, 2011 6:02 pm

    Haters are obsessed with Michael Jackson just as much as his fans are. They all claim to hate him and say that he was a pedophile, etc yet they create blogs about him, websites, facebooks, etc…Love him or hate him, MJ has that kind of effect on people.

    Like

  50. Suzy permalink
    June 11, 2011 5:21 pm

    @ Nan

    You see that well. It makes me sick.

    Also didn’t Diane Dimond had a picture of Michael on her wall on one of the pictures that was made in her home? And what was the point of her taking Michael’s underwear from Vaccaro?

    I really think these people are mental. I mean there are fans who love Michael and then there is another group of people who have a sick kind of obsession with him.

    Like

  51. nan permalink
    June 11, 2011 4:41 pm

    am i imagining things or is one of those pictures of vg ,him standing in front of a this is it poster?what is with these people ….they do everything they possibly can to destroy him,and yet they cant get enough of him…..like dimond bought one of his hats..it is like a really sick infatuation with him..like when somebody shoots someone famous so they will be linked to them forever,…

    Like

  52. lynande51 permalink
    June 11, 2011 12:27 am

    How could Jordan ever have a normal life with Maureen Orth after him? And how much peyote was Chacon smoking before he wrote that confabulation of words? These people never cease to amaze me really.

    Like

  53. shelly permalink
    June 10, 2011 11:46 pm

    It was on TV a few months after MJ’s death.

    Like

  54. hana permalink
    June 10, 2011 11:10 pm

    Lol look at that fat pig run. He’s nothing but a coward. I hope him and his disgusting mother gets exposed one day.

    Like

  55. Alison permalink
    June 10, 2011 10:38 pm

    I hadn’t seen the video though knew what gavin said to his teacher. i thought the video was interesting – that it actually reported what gavin had said for a start! and also i thought the tone of voice of the presenter suggested she believed – or was presenting it as such – it had all been untrue, it was disappointing m.o. had to be on it with her sour face looking like she just sucked on a lemon but it seemed at odds with the tone and purpose of the report. or am i misunderstanding it? was that last year?

    Like

  56. shelly permalink
    June 10, 2011 10:06 pm

    It’s what Gavin told his teacher in 2003. There is nothing new in this video.

    Like

  57. Truth Prevail permalink
    June 10, 2011 10:03 pm

    Some of you probaly have seen this

    LMAO! At the way gavin is running away!!!

    Like

  58. hana permalink
    June 10, 2011 9:15 pm

    @shelly

    Lol I love Mesearu. He’s a brutal cross examiner. It was reported that after Chacon was cross examined, the 300lb security guard finally cried and said he wanted to go home.

    Like

  59. shelly permalink
    June 10, 2011 9:03 pm

    Ralph Chacon during his cross examination

    9 Q. Are you planning to go to a tabloid after

    10 you testify?

    11 A. No, sir. I just want to go home.”

    Like

  60. hana permalink
    June 10, 2011 7:15 pm

    @ares

    Exactly! Who files a wrongful termination lawsuit against someone who they claim is a child molester?

    Like

  61. ares permalink
    June 10, 2011 6:58 pm

    @hana

    But there were five of them, weren’t there. What those people say is that pretty much everybody in Neverland had seen MJ do stuff to kids and for some reason none of them went to the police to report it. But six or seven people working on Neverland had no problem speaking to tabloids about what they had seen when money was given to them. So, i ask why didn’t those people who saw MJ do those things to kids, didn’t go together to the police and report him. Surelly the police would have believed a group of people who claimed to have seen such disturbing things. But instead of doing that, they sued MJ because he had fired them. What the hell! How can somebody sue someone for dismissing them, when they claim that that person was a sick individual doing sick things to kids? On the other hand, what kind of sick person wants to work in a place where they claim they had seen a person doing disgusting things to kids?

    Like

  62. nan permalink
    June 10, 2011 6:46 pm

    Thank you for the Spanish language articles,Alison was also interested in finding out more about vg…now i am really intrigued,who is this guy really a puppet for..How does somebody like that get introduced to dateline with no info available about his work in the states
    then come back to the states while he still has a judgement against him..not worried about that i guess….unless he is runnng out of places he feels welcome…jeez

    And that stuff written about the spider attributed to Ralph??i think it is someone else writing under his name..These 1108 people were not too bright as evidenced by their testimony..I think they are just out there living their lives under the radar..jason fracia has a fb page…… at one time,not too long ago, open so you could read what he was doing..jason was just riding his motorcycle,going on road trips, playing his guitar……i ,found his mom blanca ruth through his friends…nice ,picture of a smiling blanca…..no worries at all…..sickening…….now its private because i believe people started leaving messages.
    .
    i just dont think those people who worked for mj dwell on this stuff,they just were used by this vg,took the cash, and tossed aside……….bet the last thing they ever thought is that they would have to get on a witness stand and try and defend that garbage…………i would think it would be vg,possibly, still writing under ralphs name because for starters,chacon would be looking for a check, to go along with it , as well..

    Like

  63. hana permalink
    June 10, 2011 6:34 pm

    @Ares

    Chacon stated in his testimony that he didn’t go to the police because he didn’t think anyone would believe him…*rolls eyes*

    Yeah, he didn’t think anyone would believe him with the exception of a tabloid flashing big bucks.

    Like

  64. shelly permalink
    June 10, 2011 6:31 pm

    That guy is crazy. If he really witnessed that why did he say nothing to the police? Why did he thinks he had the rights to sell his story to the tabs make the life of those children even worse.

    Like

  65. ares permalink
    June 10, 2011 6:24 pm

    I am impressed by Ralph Chacon eloquence. I wonder where did this talent of him in words went when he, as he has alleged, saw MJ do all those thing to younge boys. Why didn’t he go straight away to the police and so eloquently tell them of what he saw instead of suing MJ for sixteen million for wrongfully terminated job? Or the fact that he didn’t get anything from MJ after suing him was too hard for him to swallow and writing stupid things in a blog was a good way to take his revenge? I bet is the second one.

    Like

  66. June 10, 2011 6:05 pm

    “As the black widow spider who is patiently spinning its web for the unsuspected innocent prey so is this evil black pale spirit, wondering the world spinning a web of love for humanity ….Woe unto you deceived and manipulated souls of humanity, for you don’t know the hour of your demise …come unto me oh little ones for I’m the king of the worlds populous….. his smirking evil mask that captivates their minds with its evil…….feeds his dreams with allusions of pubescences?”

    This guard didn’t sound that poetic when he was giving his testimony. I bet he doesn’t know half of these words, not to mention “allusions of pubescences”!

    Like

  67. hana permalink
    June 10, 2011 5:54 pm

    Here’s a comment Ralph Chacon wrote about MJ on a blog:

    Ralph Chacon
    Sep 10, 2006 at 1:04 am

    OH! I have seen one evil magical glove and a mask of deception inside a menagerie of children who are lost in a neverland of dreams and sexual exploitation.

    As the black widow spider who is patiently spinning its web for the unsuspected innocent prey so is this evil black pale spirit, wondering the world spinning a web of love for humanity and for its innocent little children who are supervisor only by his weeping spirit who sings songs of imaginings?

    Singing, come unto me oh little ones for I’m the king of the worlds populous, I shall save you from your families’ hate, which compensates you without love.

    Woe unto you deceived and manipulated souls of humanity, for you don’t know the hour of your demise. Your innocent little children have been captivated to a web of a wonderland of sexual abuse, beyond the span of your imaginations; this smirking evil mask that captivates their minds with its evil white glove and gestures of sexual exploitation, feeds his dreams with allusions of pubescences?

    Like

  68. shelly permalink
    June 10, 2011 4:45 pm

    @Teva

    Connie Cascio is called Mumma Rubba in the Invincible album. Did he molest her.

    Like

  69. June 10, 2011 4:08 pm

    “i googled him to find out more about him and it was difficult because there are loads of people with that name, but i couldn’t find anything else he’s written”

    Nan, below is a link to a Spanish search engine which came up with a lot of articles mentioning Victor Gutierrez. Some of them don’t open but the overall number of entries is more than 1700 – so we can probably fish out something from there (despite the translation). Even the headlines may be instrumental.
    From one of them we learn that Gutierrez reported from the US about MJ’s death and was afraid that he would be recognized by Michael’s fans. But he wasn’t because his name and face are very well hidden from everyone’s sight and none of the fans have naturally read his book:

    Nobody recognized Victor Gutierrez
    08/07/2009 – LUN (Chile)
    He left early in the morning and scared by offices for the “People like you.” Victor Gutierrez was convinced that Jackson’s fans try to lynch him and confessed on camera. But no one recognized him as the author of ….

    Here is another impressive headline showing that some people do understand what a dirtbag Gutierrez is:

    Victor Gutierrez Flores quipped
    24/02/2011 – La Estrella de Valparaiso (Chile)
    In his press conference after his successful show, Mauricio Flores quipped with journalist Victor Gutierrez that would have previously criticized. “Remember that you are saved because Michael Jackson is dead, I’m not dead,” he said.

    Another headline and we learn that Victor Gutierrez failed to attend his mother’s funeral:

    Victor Gutierrez’s mom died
    30/07/09 – LUN (Chile)
    … In a tiny voice on the telephone from the United States Victor Gutierrez at the death of his mother, Aida Prieto, colon cancer patient to do … I thanked him for believing in me, “says excited Gutierrez , who fails to travel to attend the funeral …

    Another headline and we find out what Michael’s fans living in Chile think of Gutierrez:

    Thriller: fans wanted to lynch Victor Gutierrez
    27/06/2009 – LUN (Chile)
    While last night Victor Gutierrez was digging sordid details of Michael Jackson in “Close”, fifty [fans of] Jackson wanted to eat the reporter live. “What rot Victor Gutierrez , is a damn, “president of the fan club gritó.La” Dancing in the dream” said.

    http://buscador.emol.com/dispatcher.php?query=Victor%20Gutierrez&query2=&offset=0&portal=todos&sort=rank&sortdir=descending&o2=13&o3=31&o4=41&cn=emol&Submit=Buscar

    Like

  70. June 10, 2011 2:44 pm

    “i googled him to find out more about him but i couldn’t find anything else he’s written, does anyone know what else he has written to qualify him for this title, or is his one and only production this book of perverse lies?

    Nan, given enormous Gutierrez’s “contribution” into destroying Michael’s life it is surprising that you will not find information about Victor Gutierrez in the English-language press. Though he is said to be living in Los Angeles now the press is keeping complete silence about him. That is why I have to “read” (in Google translation) only Spanish papers which have a lot about Gutierrez. The only problem is grasping the meaning of what they say despite a very rough translation. I will try to find a page with several articles about him for you.

    Like

  71. nan permalink
    June 10, 2011 1:17 pm

    from Alison..
    you know vg is constantly referred to as a freelance writer – i googled him to find out more about him and it was difficult because there are loads of people with that name, but i couldn’t find anything else he’s written, does anyone know what else he has written to qualify him for this title, or is his one and only production this book of perverse lies? in which case i wonder where he came from (or what rock he crawled out from under), and what he did and who he knew before stalking Michael Jackson’s friends.

    I tried googling him too and couldnt get any info, I thought of emailing Dateline to ask what his qualifications were to have been hired,but I figured they wouldnt respond,I think they just hired him to smear MJ.
    Tom Mesereau investigator was Jesus Castillo,.I bet Mesereau had him do some background checking on this Victor.
    Maybe he would answer you if you had some specific things you wanted to ask regarding vg..

    Like

  72. jan permalink
    June 10, 2011 12:48 pm

    from william wagener, this is important, see:

    Like

  73. Teva permalink
    June 10, 2011 1:57 am

    “Rubba” & “Applehead” were terms of endearment. On Michael’s Memorial booklet his family and closest friend each wrote a goodbye paragraph. Taj Jackson, Tito’s son signed his “I love you Applehead” and Siggy (Jackie’s son) signed his “Rubba”. Are we to surmised that they too were M*lested?

    Like

  74. hana permalink
    June 10, 2011 1:24 am

    Why were’nt all these lying witnesses prosecuted for perjury?

    Like

  75. Alison permalink
    June 9, 2011 11:05 pm

    Yes Helena, but its not really a diversion i don’t think. its not strictly about the detail of the events that affected Michael, but you are right that these things ARE at the back of it, and also they are what he was talking about when he said what he wanted to change in the world – they are the cause of all the war, poverty through greed and lack of distribution of food, also same for medicines and vaccines, environmental destruction, they cause abuse and heartache – and his message about the innocence, creativity and divinity of (most) children’s hearts is right because a heart like that would not do those things. he said we need to heal the world through having the heart of children rather than that of greedy, lying, destructive adult hearts. its true.
    BUT it doesn’t make money so the horrible greedy adult hearted people couldn’t let him continue to influence people, children, young people, future adults, in this way. he had to be destroyed.
    Far from the stupid “regressed 10 year old” scenario, blah, blah blah, Michael was one of the wisest of all of us. he chose innocence, childLIKEness instead of dark so-called adultness. – but he was an adult man, fully developed and very intelligent, too intelligent for them, they didn’t understand him. standard intelligence with emotional and spiritual intelligence.
    they destroyed him finally, physically, and thought that would be it but they reckoned without his legions of fans and admirers, they’ve been taken by surprise and now they send all these haters along to try to destroy our faith and stop us from shining the light to expose their deeds.
    did i post this the other day, i’m not sure, i know i thought about it, but i read that in 91/92 Michael announced he had formed a film production company, with someone else, and they were going to make family, healthy films with a healing message (instead of throwing stones at lions and teaching chimps to play with themselves in front of children!!) . that wouldn’t have gone down well with those who want to make heaps of money through films about sex and violence. shortly afterwards chandler happened. coincidence? maybe, not sure.

    you know vg is constantly referred to as a freelance writer – i googled him to find out more about him and it was difficult because there are loads of people with that name, but i couldn’t find anything else he’s written, does anyone know what else he has written to qualify him for this title, or is his one and only production this book of perverse lies? in which case i wonder where he came from (or what rock he crawled out from under), and what he did and who he knew before stalking Michael Jackson’s friends.

    Like

  76. June 9, 2011 8:36 pm

    “i think it does require some sort of psychological make up to have total zero concern for others and total concern for themselves.”

    Alison, I regard it as a battle between the high and low taking place inside a human being’s soul. The margin between good and evil is going not outside us – it is going inside ourselves and it is absolutely within our power to shift the borderline into one or the other direction.

    Some people choose lies, betrayal and manipulation of others as a means to obtain their goals, while some voluntarily choose honesty, truth and hard work to do the same. Frankly, it seems that at the moment the latter ones are finding themselves at a disadvantage – but for these people even this obstacle isn’t big enough to make them change their ways. They simply cannot live in any other way and it is probably only due to these people that the world is still surviving.

    Rascals feel that they have taken the upper hand and their sacrifice of high ideals was not in vain. They have achieved a bigger material success which enables them to forget – at least for a time being – what they had to give up in order to achieve it.

    But when they see an honest man reaching the same success (or even bigger), this is what they are totally unable to stand. It is a complete insult to them and their life-long beliefs. They had to lie, betray, destroy other people’s lives and here comes this guy – who has never said a false or a bad word to anyone and has done only good to people – and look at him, he is a multimillionaire adored by everyone and is going stronger with every coming day!

    For people like them it is almost like breaking the corporate ethics. No wonder they looked at Michael as an outsider with totally unacceptable ideals. I suspect that if he had been a poor genius idealist they would have put up with him and his ways – but it was the wealth and success of this idealist which was so terribly annoying. It devalued their own achievements and showed another possible way – being honest, kind and loving AND successful too.

    Michael was a third way and it seems that it was this new alternative way of living a life which evoked so much hatred from those people.

    What is also interesting is that he was not accepted mostly by those who made lies and lack of concern for others the principle of their life – Diane Dimond, Victor Gutierrez, Martin Bashir, Sneddon, Feldman and all those witnesses who told numerous lies about others without batting an eyelid. But Michael was and is being fully accepted by those who adhere to his ideals of honesty, love for the people, selfless help and concern for others – and Thomas Mesereau is the most vivid example of them.

    An interesting division, isn’t it?

    Like

  77. Alison permalink
    June 9, 2011 7:17 pm

    Helena that brainwashing info is really extremely interesting, i have made a completely separate note of it, i recognise some of these techniques from a job i used to be in where there was a lot of bullying and undermining going on to enable the perpetrator who presented themselves as the victim, to get exactly what they wanted and zoom up the hierarchy whilst destroying people’s confidence, lives in some cases, career options and get the threats out of the way until they could take complete control. it has devasted a lot of people, including myself, but objectively it is very interesting to see how it can happen in a workplace. it is very effective but is so wrong because of the carnage it leaves in its wake. i think there are only some people that are capable to do this thankfully. and i think it does require some sort of psychological make up to have total zero concern for others and total concern forthemselves.

    Like

  78. hana permalink
    June 9, 2011 7:07 pm

    according to prosecutors, MJ called his male friends “rubba” because he liked to rub them in certain places, and he called Macaulay Culkin “bee-stung” because he loved his big red lips..lol

    Like

  79. June 9, 2011 6:42 pm

    “the man is truly insane. and a pervert, you are right its all about his own fantasies and experiences. but i think its totally weird that so many people were taken in by all this bs.”

    Alison, yes, Gutierrez is sick as a human being but professionally is sane enough to use scientifically proven methods of brainwashing people. Recently I’ve learned that telling a very big, monstrous, unbelievable lie is one of the best methods of making people believing it (frankly, I thought it was the opposite). When the lie is really monstrous few people doubt that anyone could have invented it. Wiki has a summary of methods of brainwashing the public and the BIG lie technique is one of them. In fact Gutierrez uses them all:

    Big Lie
    Tell a lie so large that no one will question the authenticity because of the size of the lie. This is a time tested, proven propaganda technique.
    Big Lie is the repeated articulation of a complex of events. The descriptions of these events have elements of truth, and the “big lie” generalizations merge and eventually supplant the public’s accurate perception of the underlying events.

    Half-truth
    A half-truth is a deceptive statement, which may come in several forms and includes some element of truth. The statement might be partly true, the statement may be totally true but only part of the whole truth, or it may utilize some deceptive element, such as improper punctuation, or double meaning, especially if the intent is to deceive, evade, blame or misrepresent the truth.

    Selective truth
    It is critically important to occasionally tell the truth in order to maintain credibility or legitimacy

    Emphasis and repetition
    Cover stories which match your agenda over and over and over……and over. People will remember repetition and will come to believe anything if it is repeated often enough.
    George Orwell said that if you repeat a lie frequently enough, people will take it to be true.
    According to Adolf Hitler “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”

    [the example is the word “ped-le” Gutierrez constantly repeats. When he repeats it so often there is actually no need to prove anything – people start believing it all as it is. This is the reason why he uses it as his mantra]

    Fabricated evidence
    This technique is practiced by promoting as self sourced or repeating “evidence” that could range from non existent to fabricated. This could include doctored photographs to include, exclude or exaggerate information, audio recordings and video productions, as well as dossiers or written documents. Any or all of which promoted as “the truth” and may in fact have only some basis in truth or be entirely fabricated.

    Vilification and character assassination
    People or personalities whose opinion or positions are to be suppressed are subtly (or not so subtly) vilified and sabotaged, usually by over blowing a trivial issue relating to something people are sympathetic to. Vilification is most effective when used subtly and over a long period of time, so the audience or readership becomes slowly programmed as to who is “good” and who is “bad”.
    A broad array of techniques can be used ranging from hiring investigators to “dig up dirt”, then using the volume and coordination technique. The “He Said, She Said” technique is also employed for character assassination. Using this method, the author or newscaster can cast the backlash to someone else and say something they know isn’t true, or isn’t fair, but they want to say it anyway.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

    “he looks a bit like bashir don’t you think?”

    It is highly surprising but Gutierrez and Bashir do look very much alike! Moreover they remind me of one more person who you know too and whose photo I came across only once -Thomas O’Carroll. This similarity may not mean anything but nevertheless it is amazing!

    Like

  80. shelly permalink
    June 9, 2011 5:37 pm

    @vindicate

    Sorry for that and thanks for the article. I think the Andersen article really showed that Francia was using bad publicity in order to force MJ to settle.

    Like

  81. lynande51 permalink
    June 9, 2011 5:31 pm

    I Just updated my post about The Neverland Five to show who the Rubba’s really were and yesterday I added other information if you read that addendum.

    Like

  82. lynande51 permalink
    June 9, 2011 5:23 pm

    I will just add the two photos to my post about the Neverland FIve and that way we can just see who the Rubba’s were. Give me time to edit it.

    Like

  83. June 9, 2011 5:19 pm

    “I wonder when the book was published, Amazon said it was in June 1997 but I found this article from 1996”

    Shelly, here is information about two editions of Gutierrez’s literary product:

    1st Edition: March 1996.
    2nd Edition: January 1997.
    COPYRIGHT © 1995 BY VICTOR M . GUTIERREZ PRIETO.
    INSCRIPTION NO. 95.144 SANTIAGO, CHILE.

    By the way I had to insert various comments into the article you’ve found about Gutierrez’s book. Please look up the rules.

    Like

  84. lynande51 permalink
    June 9, 2011 5:17 pm

    If you guys wait a few days unless someone can tell me how to add a photos to a comment I will be able to show you the origin and the reality of the name Rubba’s and then we can have another laugh. And I think people just took a stab at explaining it when they didn’t know the truth. He had those notes from Vaccarro’s storage locker but they were different than who the Rubba’s were and yes there was a Baby Rubba.

    Like

  85. June 9, 2011 4:59 pm

    “To Michael they were all “Rubba”. Why Rubba? From “rubbing boy against his body”, Francia surmised. “He had boys sitting in his lap, rubbing them.” Quindoy reached the same conclusion: “He called them Rubba because he was always rubbing up against them.”

    To be fair to Gutierrez there is no mention of Rubba in his book (or I might have missed it) – so this must be an invention by Christopher Andersen himself. It seems that these people were competing with each other as to whose lie would be more spectacular and whose imagination would be more perverse.

    Roger Friedman explains how the word was coined:

    Jacko Pal: TV’s Webster Coined ‘Rubbaheads’
    Monday, May 03, 2004
    By Roger Friedman

    Yesterday’s news reports about Michael Jackson’s unearthed personal belongings were long on innuendo and short on fact. They’d also been reported earlier in People and The National Enquirer, but that’s another story.

    Much has been made of some kind of secret club Jackson may have had called the “Rubbaheads,” which had typed rules and regulations. A note to other Rubbaheads was found in the Jackson family storage bin purchased by a man in New Jersey. There’s an implication that because Jackson called some boys “Rubbas,” it connotes any number of unseemly things.

    So I asked one of the boys, now grown, about the alleged Rubbahead Club of 10 years ago, when all this happened. He says when he heard about all this a few weeks ago and again yesterday, he was stymied.

    “First of all, there was no Rubbahead Club. Rubba was a name Emmanuel Lewis, who played Webster, came up with,” he explained. “Everyone called everyone Rubba. It didn’t mean anything. What we did have was the Applehead Club, and that was from ‘The Three Stooges.’ Everyone was an Applehead because Michael loved ‘The Three Stooges.'”

    This was 10 years ago, when a number of well-known 13-year-old boys were coming and going from Neverland. They included Macaulay Culkin, Wade Robson, Lewis, the young man I spoke with and the young man from the Jackson case 10 years ago.

    “It’s nothing sexual,” my source continued. “Michael even called one of the younger kids Baby Rubba. It didn’t mean anything.”

    So what about the typed list of rules found in the storage bin? They included requiring members to be “idiots and act crazy at all times”; be vegetarians who fast on Sundays and avoid drugs; watch two episodes of “The Three Stooges” daily; know the Peter Pan story by heart; and when seeing another member, “give the peace sign, and then half of it.”

    In fact, insists my source, “there were no rules at Neverland. The whole thing was about not having rules and having a good time. It was all from Peter Pan. There was no club, no initiation, and I never heard of a ‘club kit’ or anything else.”

    What’s clear about all this is that, when witnesses are called in the Jackson trial next winter, many things will be left to interpretation. What may seem prurient to the public on first impression may turn out to be completely innocent. It will be up to Jackson’s lawyers to help a jury understand that.

    Ironically, there was a serious misinterpretation in yesterday’s reports about the meaning of a poem by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow called “The Children’s Hour.” In the poem, the narrator addresses three little girls, not little boys, which was the impression given in the reports.

    I say “ironically” because a play called “The Children’s Hour” by Lillian Hellman, inspired by the poem, was about two female teachers whose lives are ruined because of unfounded gossip that they are secretly lovers.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118795,00.html

    SO THE REAL SIX RULES AT NEVERLAND WERE:
    1) “idiots and act crazy at all times”;
    2 ) be vegetarians who fast on Sundays
    3) avoid drugs;
    4) watch two episodes of “The Three Stooges” daily;
    5) know the Peter Pan story by heart;
    6) when seeing another member, “give the peace sign, and then half of it”

    AND NOW PLEASE COMPARE THEM WITH THE OTHER SIX INVENTED BY GUTIERREZ:
    1) no to wenches, bitches, heifers or hoes (whores).
    2) never give up your “bliss” (sex acts).
    3) live with me in Neverland forever. ‘
    4) no conditioning.
    5) never grow up.
    6) be better than best friends forever (lovers)

    SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

    Like

  86. nan permalink
    June 9, 2011 4:58 pm

    I think I do remember the prosecutors, thinking him calling people ” Rubba ” was sinister too in some way..Quincey Jones is on tape laughing about MJ calling Frank Dileo, ” Rubba “while he was dancing around to one of MJs songs…..He called a lot of people “Rubba”..They could NOT have been looking for the truth in any way about Michael, as just about anyone could have cleared that up for them….

    The blowhole nickname with Starr…….I didnt understand why .Mesereau had to establish Starr coined that name for himself…because he was so fat he looked like a blowfish..LOL..That was supposed to be sinister also..
    I wonder what the jurors thought of all these odd questions..?
    I think the prosecutors names should be added to The Victor Petition…They need a mental health check also..

    Like

  87. shelly permalink
    June 9, 2011 4:13 pm

    They also talked to Christopher Andersen

    “There was more. According to Francia, Michael seemed to have decided that he did not have to abide by the rules of polite society. If he felt the need, he would not bother to find a bathroom he simply would relieve himself in his pants. “Don’t be surprised if you see any dirty underwear,” Francia recalled him saying. “Sometimes I can’t hold it, so I just go in my underwear.”

    MORE revealing and disturbing was the “special name” he now gave his young friends. To Michael they were all “Rubba”. Why Rubba? From “rubbing boy against his body”, Francia surmised. “He had boys sitting in his lap, rubbing them.” Quindoy reached the same conclusion: “He called them Rubba because he was always rubbing up against them.”

    http://www.plussizedresses.com.au/plus-size-dresses-articles/1995/1/22/jacko-sad-mad-or-bad/

    Like

  88. shelly permalink
    June 9, 2011 11:30 am

    I also find that horrible article about that book and the Quindoy. I think it explains why the DA didn’t want the Quindoys. Could you imagine Mesereau cross examination about what happened to Bubble?

    Jacko faces new sex storm; Chimp abuse claims.(News)
    Publication:Daily Record (Glasgow, Scotland) Publish date:December 13, 1996 More results for: Michael jackson was my lover

    Wacko Jacko is about to be rocked by new claims that he DID molest children – and his pet chimp.

    The star’s former employees, Mark and Faye Quiondoy, are touting their “tell- all” book for pounds 15million.

    They claim that Jackson enjoyed performing sex acts with monkey Bubbles.

    And the couple say he molested “numerous” children during the three years they spent working as estate managers on his Neverland ranch.

    Allegations that 38-year-old Jackson sexually assaulted Jordy Chandler, 13, were dropped when the singer made a deal.

    The Quiondoys claim other children were also paid off by Jacko to keep them quiet.

    The performer, who recently wed again and is now a dad-to-be, is suing a US TV show which claimed he molested a boy.

    A South American book, called Michael Jackson Was My Lover: The Secret Diary Of Jordy Chandler, is being sold under the counter at American gay stores.

    Like

  89. shelly permalink
    June 9, 2011 11:21 am

    I wonder when the book was published, Amazon said it was in June 1997 but I found this article from 1996

    Jordie’s shocking secret diary of sex abuse by Michael Jackson; THE SCANDAL THAT WON’T GO AWAY.(News)
    Publication:Sunday Mirror (London, England) Publish date:September 29, 1996 Author:Wills, Colin More results for: michael jackson

    VMJ: Since I cannot see MJ’s name associated with Gutierrez’s filth I’ve changed MJ’s name in the narration below into an anonymous Gutierrez or just He:

    With a wave of his gloved hand, [he] signed the cheque for 25 million dollars.

    The world’s biggest and richest pop star believed he had finally put paid to claims that he had sex with children by buying the silence of young Jordie Chandler.
    [VMJ: Buying silence? They were telling every lie they had to say for half a year before the settlement and are still telling them! It looks like the Chandlers agreed to reduce the initial $30 mln. asked to the $15,3 received so that Jackson didn’t t take the matter to a criminal court – otherwise they wouldn’t have got any money at all!]

    Two years on, these allegations are still refusing to go away. While Jackson struts his stuff at the start of a year-long world tour, he is facing two multi-million-dollar law suits in the States which pull no punches in painting the Pied Piper of Pop as a pae-le.

    Even more sensationally, American fans have been stunned by publication of Jordie Chandler’s secret diary in a new book which tells in graphic detail how Jackson used his power and wealth to seduce the 13-year-old…and then win his silence. [VMJ: There was no diary and no silence as the first one never existed according to Jordan’s own uncle and the second one was too thundering to be called silence]

    Revealingly, in one entry Jordie writes: “[He] and I talked about what would happen if I told someone about our sexual relations.

    “It was simple, he said. He would go to jail, I’d go to a children’s home and my parents might be jailed on the charge of negligence.

    “[He] told me, `If someone asks you if we have done something, just deny it’.”

    But neither Jordie nor his parents are willing to keep silent any more. And Jordie, now 16, is willing to take the stand as the family seek pounds 40 million damages in court. [VMJ: How very impressive. Jordan Chandler refused to go to court and threatened he would sue the authorities if they insisted. His uncle Ray Chandler fought his subpeana tooth and nail. And no one ever, ever heard of Evan Chandler ever, ever willing to give his testimony in court – so the family was indeed “willing” to take the stand].

    They are accusing Jackson of breaking an agreement never to discuss the case by denying on a TV talk show that he ever molested Jordie. [VMJ: The more we learn about it the more it becomes clear that the confidentiality agreement was a way to shut Michael Jackson’s mouth and prevent him from telling the truth]

    Ex-bodyguard Jerome Johnson, who is suing Jackson for wrongful dismissal, is adding to the star’s problems.

    In his lawsuit he claims that he smuggled boys into the singer’s bedroom [VMJ: Then he should go to prison].
    He also alleges that he had to keep estranged wife Lisa Marie Presley away from Jackson’s bedroom during a stay in Las Vegas because he had two young boys with him.

    But it is the diary – the cornerstone of a book by Victor Guiterrez – that is the most damning.[VMJ: For Gutierrez – yes, it is damning!]

    With childlike innocence, Jordie tells how he wandered into Jackson’s bedroom at his fabled Neverland ranch and found a group of young boys playing a slot machine that paid out $100 bills…naked. [VMJ: Wrong. Gutierrez describes it as if the boys were invited into the bedroom as if into a sanctuary which no one else could enter. A “sanctuary”? It was the most populated area in the whole house with everyone coming and going as they pleased!]

    [Gutierrez] assured him it was to make sure no one could cheat by hiding trick devices in their clothes. He also made sure the boys knew they should never tell anyone else about the game.

    Guiterrez says the star mounted a calculated campaign to seduce Jordie. And Jordie’s account of their time together bears this out.

    Early on in their relationship, Jordie recalls: “[Gutierrez’s kisses were so passionate. He touched my hair and put his tongue in my ear.”

    In Los Angeles, Jordie adds: “We kissed with [Gutierrez] touching me all over my body – but only on top of my clothes.”

    In Monaco, where [he] was receiving a music award, Jordie tells how [he] invited him to have a hot bath.

    “While I was taking off my shirt, [Gutierrez] took me in his arms and began to kiss me,” says Jordie.

    “Gutierrez finished taking off my shirt and then took off my trousers. When I was left only in my underwear, he pulled them down and took them off with his teeth.”

    They got into the bath hand-in-hand and Jordie then tells of the “games” [Gutierrez] taught him to play as they sat among the soap suds. Those “games” included oral sex and mutual masturbation. [VMJ: Oh, you can’t imagine how much Gutierrez has taught me already by his book. It is a great teaching aid on gay love and pornography. With so masterful a teacher all his readers will become great experts in the field. Could it have been one if his purposes?]

    As they dried off, [Gutierrez] assured Jordie that what they had done was OK.

    To prove it, he recited a list of the other boy “lovers” he had had in the past.

    Incredibly, Jordie had been accompanied on the trip by his mother June and his little sister Lily.

    On a previous trip to Las Vegas, June had discovered that Jordie and [Gutierrez] had shared a bed for the first time. Incensed, she confronted [Gutierrez], who burst into tears.

    He assured her: “Ours is a friendly, honest, true and loving relationship. I don’t see anything wrong with Jordie and I sleeping together.

    “From then on,” Jordie notes, “[He] and I slept in the same bed.”

    The next day, [he] bought June a Cartier bracelet worth 12,000 dollars and gave it to her along with a note “thanking her for her friendship”. [VMJ: Few people know it but Gutierrez claims that Michael gave Evan Chandler a Cartier watch too – the first time they met]

    One of the ways [Gutierrez] allegedly persuaded Jordie to participate in the sex games was by detailing his sexual activities with another boy, Brett Barnes. “If Jordie, wouldn’t do the same,” he claimed, “perhaps Jordie doesn’t love me as much as Brett loves me.”

    Jordie’s father Evan was divorced from his mother and he reeled back in shock when Jackson came to stay – and he found him in his son’s bed.

    “Jordie was in the foetal position, with Gutierrez hugging him from behind,” says Evan. “[His] arm was in front of my son’s body with his hand resting in my son’s crotch area.

    “I was extremely confused. I didn’t want to start a fight with a high emotional charge when I might hurt my son.”

    Evan says [Gutierrez] insisted in sleeping in the same room as Jordie and Jordie’s stepbrother Nikki. “I thought that it was because he was a simple person who didn’t need luxury,” he says. [VMJ: All this is very nice of course, but the above allegedly happened at the end of May 1993 while at the beginning of April the same year – or two months before that – Evan Chandler was allegedly asking everyone – Dr. Klein, for example, why Michael was “sleeping with his son”. Klein said Michael was heterosexual and Evan shouldn’t worry. What is interesting is that according to Gutierrez Evan Chandler was making those enquiries at the time when he had not yet learned about those slumber parties].

    Jordie says [Gutierrez] joined him in his bunk bed where they masturbated each other. It had a serious affect on Nikki.

    “Next morning he woke Nathalie and me up, asking if it was all right for two boys to get married,” Evan recalls.

    “When we asked him why, he didn’t respond. Later he told us, `[Gutierrez] is bad, he was hugging Jordie in bed’.” [VMJ: Very nice again, only the Department of Children and Family Services who surely interviewed Nikki for a possible moral damage to the boy didn’t find anything of the kind. The DCFS say they found NOTHING that could prove the allegations in 1993]

    As [Gutierrez’s] hold over Jordie grew, he would tell him to repeat six “wishes” three times a day so that they would come true.

    They were: NO wenches, bitches, heifers or hoes (whores). NEVER give up your “bliss” (sex acts). LIVE with me in Neverland forever. NO conditioning. NEVER grow up. BE better than best friends forever (lovers). [VMJ: Very specific rules! Look very much like Gutierrez’s code of conduct with his partners. Never heard them from anyone else but Gutierrez]

    Evan adds: “By then [Gutierrez] and Jordie were so close they had developed their own vocabulary, shared the same inside jokes…they even had the same movements and style of dress.”

    Jordie was no longer the same boy that he knew.

    His second wife Nathalie put it coldly, if accurately, when she told him: “Jordie doesn’t even notice if you’re in the same room.”

    Puzzled, he asked what she thought was wrong. “It’s obvious,” she replied. They’re in love.”

    Adapted from Michael Jackson Was My Lover: The Secret Diary Of Jordie Chandler by Victor M. Guiterrez.

    VMJ: Yes, very much adapted from Gutierrez. Shelly, I am sorry for having to remind you about our rules – we shouldn’t leave such filth without a comment!

    Like

  90. shelly permalink
    June 9, 2011 9:33 am

    Adrian McManus had a room full of tampons with diarrhea and she is proud to show that to her friends (lol).

    Can you imagine that?

    Like

  91. Alison permalink
    June 9, 2011 9:19 am

    @ Teva – yes i have! standing at the corner. he’s only temporarily in my room while i sort out the house though, to keep him from being damaged, and at the moment he is being quite useful as i didn’t know where to put my hat and he is man enough to not mind wearing it for now. but i am not going to reveal if he belongs to me or my daughter. he might be hers, – but then again he might be mine! its very nice though whoever owns him.

    Lynande51 – “But you know what else has me laughing is the idea that Adrian McManus collected used enema bottles and used anally inserted tampons home and kept them in a room for others to see”. –
    just as well i wasn’t sipping from my coffee RIGHT at that moment, it would have splurted all over the keyboard!!
    I wonder if they realise what complete idiots – ohh, a**h***s ! he he! – they have made of themselves quite apart from everything else, or if they are still so deluded by greed that they feel justified.
    Helena suggested a petition to get vg committed to a mental institution, i think thats a good idea.

    Like

  92. Suzy permalink
    June 9, 2011 5:40 am

    The sad thing is that tabloids were quoting and spreading this book’s stories. This article was written only three days after Michael’s death!

    http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/notw/news/381252/Jordy-Chandlers-secret-diary-of-sex-abuse-with-Michael-Jackson.html

    The book was more than 10 years old. The stories in it has been debunked in court. Even the Chandlers said it wasn’t true. Yet, the media are quoting it. And just three days after Michael’s death. What does that tell about the media?

    Like

  93. lynande51 permalink
    June 9, 2011 4:08 am

    I am still laughing about this post. But you know what else has me laughing is the idea that Adrian McManus collected used enema bottles and used anally inserted tampons home and kept them in a room for others to see. And the tabloids called MJ Wacko and the haters call us floons? Who looks more foolish now for believing this man and his shit literature?

    Like

  94. Teva permalink
    June 9, 2011 2:13 am

    “So glad i’ve got a lifesize cardboard cut out of Michael in my room, i can recommend it for getting through all this.”

    You’ve got a WHAT?!

    Like

  95. nan permalink
    June 9, 2011 1:48 am

    WOW!..I was reading this and was reminded that when Zonen was giving his closing argument, he made a remark like “given Michael Jackson reputation…”..well, I was thinking…what reputation???.He doesnt have a bad reputation.I guess now I know what he was referring to..LOL
    I picture Tom Sneddon and company reading this rubbish,buying it hook,line and sinker.. Eating it up, like a bunch of gossipy old ladies sitting under the dryers in a beauty parlor……How incredibly STUPID..
    .Evidently,they seem to think lots of people go around reading filth and everybody would know what they were alluding to,with some of those questions to people testifying..It would be laughable if it hadnt hurt Michael so much..Probably,one of the last people on earth capable of this garbage.
    I agree that these things are this mans own sick fantasies..At first I thought that he was trying to hijack Michaels good name and the love that people had for him all over the world ,intending to make people think the nambla people sick behavior with children is more acceptable if it is affiliated with him, almost like Pepsi wanted him to endorse their product to make it more popular……
    But now I just think this guy is a sick nut….I guess dateline doesnt have any cracker jack investigator reporters if they used him as a consultant..
    Now I want to go back and reread the 1108 witness testimony…I will bet I get alot more out of it..
    Thank you for making everyone more aware of what Mj was up against,and thank God Michael had Tom Mesereau…

    Like

  96. Alison permalink
    June 9, 2011 12:27 am

    So glad i’ve got a lifesize cardboard cut out of Michael in my room, i can recommend it for getting through all this.

    Like

  97. Alison permalink
    June 9, 2011 12:22 am

    OK I have finished reading, had to get a drink to help – the rest wasn’t funny so i think i stopped at the right time.

    the man is truly insane. and a pervert, you are right its all about his own fantasies and experiences. but i think its totally weird that so many people were taken in by all this bs.

    he looks a bit like bashir don’t you think? something to do with the piggy eyes.
    did he pay up with the money he owed Michael then, how come he can live in LA otherwise?

    Ow my ear hurts, i was so desperate to listen to Michael i shoved the earphones in too hard!

    Like

  98. lynande51 permalink
    June 9, 2011 12:10 am

    Yes his lovely touch is throughout the book.What am I saying it is the book! It was love, passionate kissing,long, lingering,burning looks of veiled passion and profound cosmic love.Lol

    Like

  99. shelly permalink
    June 8, 2011 11:52 pm

    In Ray Chandler’s book, the Toradol story is very different than in Gutierrez book.

    From what I read MJ never told Evan how beautiful Jordan was, and almost how much in love he is with Jordan.

    Like

  100. Alison permalink
    June 8, 2011 11:09 pm

    OMG!! I can hardly breathe! i’ve only got as far as the tampons and i gotta have a break, besides i think my neighbours will be banging on the walls soon, as its after midnight. i haven’t laughed so much in years. and Helena you are SO funny!
    when i was little i used to love the Just William books, they had me in hysterics and this is about the same level of comedy. (i know its awful as well, but at the moment its just so funny because its so ridiculous).

    Like

  101. June 8, 2011 9:20 pm

    “What?! VG said the first Michael had sex with was a chimp? I can’t believe this guy!’

    The translation of the video title says it. Unless some of us can understand Spanish we cannot be sure that they are talking about MJ – however knowing Victor Gutierrez I must say that he is capable of saying anything. THIS MAN IS A PERVERT and all his ideas are sheer perversion.

    Our biggest problem is that we are taking him too seriously, while he is clearly a severely mentally impaired case.
    Here is another piece from a Spanish-speaking blogger who has seen Gutierrez in a TV program about MJ (the same Martian Chronicles). The blogger repeats some of Gutierrez’s statements which show that he got himself a complete frenzy about that ped-lia issue. The translation is Google again which doesn’t make it an easy read and I will also shorten the word “pedophile” as Gutierrez repeats it an innumerable number of times:

    I’m not a fan of Michael Jackson , or musically or personally. However, since time is running a mindless popular opinion is against him, considering him guilty of ped-hilia in advance.

    … All this came to my mind as I saw the other day in The Martian Chronicles .Appeared Victor Gutierrez , a South American struggled accelerated to repeat every two sentences that “Michael Jackson is a ped-ile, deserves to be condemned.” Of course, was promoting a book that explained all this. And naturally, immediately suspicious of a person making accusations against each other without providing any proof. And this was what happened with this individual. Then it struck me that, in fact, what I wanted was to live the din mounted in the wake of the attacks on Jackson, that is, live from harming another person, which is itself quite petty.

    I was shocked by some of his phrases: “whatever happens in court, the people have already tried and found guilty Jackson” (I’m surprised that this statement of clearly right-wing pass unnoticed at the time for the normally so committed Javier Sarda ), “Macaulay Culkin is going to go to trial to lie, like all witnesses of Jackson “(but have obviously no evidence to prove his claim) and the stranger:” I knew the data of an organization of ped-iles meets once a year. I made a report of them, called NAMBLA and belongs to the North American Man / Boy Love Association, which came out that Jackson was a ped-hile “(” an organization of ped-iles with statutes, whose members have a membership card ?). Fortunately, in five minutes appeared Jesus Palacios to, rightly, that South America speak of the presumption of innocence, its sensationalist claims and fascist, and so far all charges against the singer were based only in testimony.

    That gentleman was confined to defend himself with the following sentence: “I am sure that Michael Jackson is a ped-ile, and I’ll say it everywhere and at all times. Michael Jackson is a ped-hile. I repeat: Michael Jackson is a ped-ile. The ped-ilia goes hand in hand of murderers and evil people “(making it now). Soon after, looking on the Internet, I learn that this individual has been reported by Jackson and that, throughout this scandal, has landed a job at ABC. The image of Jackson given was quite unlikely by malicious: an evil, compulsive ped-ile, who performed all actions with the sole purpose of seducing children, that was broken (I can hardly believe it, really) and made large investments to month and then return them to threaten legal action to companies that seek to report about it”

    http://misobsesiones.blogia.com/2005/043001-michael-jackson.php#comentarios

    Isn’t it interesting that Victor Gutierrez AGAIN mentions that he reported from NAMBLA?

    Like

  102. shelly permalink
    June 8, 2011 8:31 pm

    ‘The first who had sex with was a chimp’

    What?

    Like

  103. June 8, 2011 8:29 pm

    There is hope that Michael will be vindicated in court.Lloyds of London and their
    underwriters will sue AEG and their Does 1-75;ficticious names of individuals and entities that are responsible in some manner for events and happenings. The insurance contract mentions all manner of deat, but not homicide.They want information on Dr. C. Murray too. And more.

    Like

  104. Suzy permalink
    June 8, 2011 8:27 pm

    What?! VG said the first Michael had sex with was a chimp? I can’t believe this guy!

    Like

  105. June 8, 2011 8:16 pm

    “VG’s claims are not even in accordance with the official allegations. No boy has ever claimed MJ penetrated him.”

    Of course no one ever said that! And Tom Sneddon never even dared mention such an idea! Moreover, even such “knowledgeable” sources as Thomas O’Carroll never alleged anything like that! It is only Victor Gutierrez who “thinks” that way – but from what I’ve read about him he will think all those perverse things even if he talks of stones. Here is a sample from a Spanish-language article (Google translation, but the gist is more or less clear) about a “Martian Chronicles” TV program where Gutierrez took part during the 2005 trial:

    Michael Jackson’s guilt debated at Martian Chronicles

    There are conflicting opinions about it. On the one hand, Victor Gutierrez, a journalist who has been researching the life of Michael Jackson for fourteen years and found out after thinking that he is guilty of pedophilia and Jesus Palacios believe he is submitted to a public trial which may not ever recover.

    Victor Gutierrez claims that Michael Jackson slept with many children and has done terrible things to them, even penetrations. The reason that many do not want to testify against bribery is the singer who puts them and their parents agree. Victor even think Jackson is guilty not think you condemn, as in U.S. prisons inmates punish pedophiles even by death.

    Not everyone thinks this way, Jesus Palacios believes that the version of Victor only based on witnesses and not on hard evidence for what he considers to be borne in mind the presumption of guilt of Jackson and not submit to this parallel public trial is already underway.

    Video: ‘Victor thinks that Jackson is guilty’
    Video: ‘The children did not accuse him because they are afraid’
    Video: ‘The look of Jackson is a cartoon to appeal to children’
    Video: ‘The first who had sex with was a chimp’
    Video: ‘We must be careful with people’s trials ”
    Video: ‘Just testimonies’

    http://www.cronicasmarcianas.telecinco.es/dn_549.htm

    Like

  106. June 8, 2011 7:48 pm

    “All of this salacious garbage is straight out of Victor’s book.”

    Hana, yes, Gutierrez shows himself at his worst when he is describing all those things in minute detail – first this, then that, then again this and then after a pause again that – you can almost feel that he is enjoying it! However I can assure you that these salacious details will not be reproduced in my posts, so guys, please don’t be afraid of the rest. The worst has come in post #2 and the monstrosity of what Gutierrez lied about those “love plays” will have to be imagined by you on the basis of what he lied about the lion, animals, diarrhea, a skeleton in the grave, etc. etc.

    Like

  107. Suzy permalink
    June 8, 2011 7:45 pm

    VG’s claims are not even in accordance with the official allegations. No boy has ever claimed MJ penetrated him.

    Like

  108. June 8, 2011 7:36 pm

    “I believe this is a work of fiction and the product of a very over active, mentally deranged imagination.”

    Lynette, I regard it in an absolutely the same way. Our readers are still shocked by these VG’s texts – same as we were when we first tried to read them – but I hope very much that the initial shock will pass and everyone will see that Gutierrez is simply a mentally deranged person. In the very least he is a nasty son of a bitch who saw a legitimate way to splash his own inside dirt into the pages of this book knowing that nobody will ever punish him for it – and so he gave full rein to his perverse imagination, which is very perverse indeed!

    As an introduction to further posts about Gutierrez I can say that he is being continually involved in various scandals in Chile – he throws his accusations to the right and to the left and all his lies have a common sexual touch – three deputies of parliament were accused of pedophilia, a woman host of a talk-show was described as a bisexual and a former winner of a beauty contest was said to have a sexual affair with a Brazilian writer who never even met her (as far as I understood it from Spanish sources). In the latter case Gutierrez was forced to pay money in compensation for the moral damage done according to the court ruling.

    Gutierrez still appears on various TV shows and still spreads lies about MJ and his younger friends. His constant theme is “penetration” – this boy was “penetrated”, another boy was “penetrated”, everyone was “penetrated” – it makes your head spinning to read this stuff! VG’s style is that of “confident knowledge” because when he is asked about this and that, his face assumes an important expression and he says “Yes, I think all of them were penetrated”. He thinks so as if everybody is interested in his mental process and not facts!

    Either Gutierrez is living in a totally different reality than the rest of the world does or he is a totally abnormal creature. His own countrymen call him nothing else but a parasite (though some consider him very respectable and on some TV channels he is very much in demand).

    Like

  109. June 8, 2011 7:11 pm

    “I think they talked to him. I think VG asked them about how Michael lived, who were around him and some details of his life that they could observe. I don’t think they could say anything sensational, but it gave some basis to VG’s stories. VG took these kind of small anecdotes and put his own crazy spin and exaggeration on them, according to his agenda. And sometimes he simply made up stuff – like this diarrhea, tampon, enema story. I think those episodes are from his own life….I think it was a collaboration between the N5 and VG.”

    Suzy, I fully agree with you. It was a collaboration and VG’s conversation with the Neverland 5 was probably a continuous one – they told him anecdotes and he kept giving his own interpretation to them (“So you found some small bones in the soil? Could it be a baby? Are you sure it was not? So you are not sure?”) Victor Gutierrez seems to be a master of this type of an interview – the one which confuses people until they don’t understand what they are saying and what they themselves believe in. I am not justifying these people – no, far from it – but it seems to me that Gutierrez did a lot of brainwashing on them.

    Like

  110. shelly permalink
    June 8, 2011 7:02 pm

    I think I’ll never understand why Sneddon did nothing against those people. They all said they sawn kids being molested and they never talked to the police. Blanca Francia said she suspected someting with her son but she did nothing.

    Like

  111. June 8, 2011 6:49 pm

    “Actually Shelly it has always been my belief that Gutierrez told them what to say not them telling him.”

    I agree

    Like

  112. hana permalink
    June 8, 2011 6:13 pm

    @ vindicatemj

    Not only did SNeddon want jurors to believe that Michael Jackson was a serial child molester but he also wanted them to believe that he was so carelesss with his molestations that he did them out in the open and all these people just so happened to see it, and were able to come to court 12 years later and describe it in such clear detail. Remember, this is the same guy who he claimed had alarms and locks in his bedroom to let him know when someone was coming so that he could stop committing crimes yet he also wanted them to believe that he was molesting kids in front of people. So which is it? Was he a careful ped-le or a reckless ped-le? There’s no doubt that the neverland 5 all committed perjury in 2005. Ralph Chacon and Mcmanus all drafted their lurid testimonies from reading victor’s book. Like how mcmanus claimed to have seen Michael changing shirts with jordie and then taking the boy in his arms and kissing him in the mouth and then put his hand on his crotch, or Chacon claiming to see Jackson take a shower with horde and putting the boy’s penis in his mouth and kissing him passionately with his hands all over his body. All of this salacious garbage is straight out of Victor’s book.

    Like

  113. lynande51 permalink
    June 8, 2011 6:00 pm

    Actually Shelly it has always been my belief that Gutierrez told them what to say not them telling him.

    Like

  114. lynande51 permalink
    June 8, 2011 5:34 pm

    I laughed until my sides hurt. I am torn. here I am a mandated reporter and I should be notifying the Santa Barbara authorities that their former star witnesses were accesories after the fact of the murder of an infant at Neverland Valley Ranch while they were employed there. Of course I haven’t signed a confidentiality agreement like his employees did so I have no worries about reporting this.Besides even if I am wrong a mandated reporter cannot be sued for turning in a false report when they have even just a suspicion of abuse and it is made in good faith.And I for one consider murder to be the highest possible form of abuse.
    There are however a few reasons that I will not be reporting this to the authorities:
    1. I believe this is a work of fiction and the product of a very over active,mentally deranged imagination.
    2. The possible repercussion of being contacted by my own local authorities and taken off to “the hospital” for believing it if I report it.
    3. I have many more important things to do today.
    4. I will gladly pay the fine if this is found to be true and I am found to be negligent in my reporting.
    5. Or I will change my mind and I will fight my failure to report ( for reason number 1,2 and 3 ) and ask Bob Sanger or Tom Mesereau to defend my case pro bono:)?

    Like

  115. shelly permalink
    June 8, 2011 5:10 pm

    It’s in that document

    http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/041505pltsuppmot11081101.pdf

    Like

  116. shelly permalink
    June 8, 2011 5:09 pm

    The story about the vaseline was told by Abdool to the Grand Jury in 1994. Barnes was never a part of that story. I believe Abdool told Gutierrez that story and he added Barnes to have a more awful story.

    Like

  117. Suzy permalink
    June 8, 2011 4:55 pm

    “And sometimes he simply made up stuff”

    Well, not sometimes – pretty often.

    Like

  118. Suzy permalink
    June 8, 2011 4:48 pm

    I think they talked to him. I think VG asked them about how Michael lived, who were around him and some details of his life that they could observe. I don’t think they could say anything sensational, but it gave some basis to VG’s stories. For example someone must have told him about the basis of this lion story. Someone of the Neverland 5 certainly saw it when Michael and Wade threw pebbles (BTW, how did Wade become Brett and Jordan in VG’s version? And when did the prosecution realize it was actually Wade?).

    So VG took these kind of small anecdotes and put his own crazy spin and exaggeration on them, according to his agenda. And sometimes he simply made up stuff – like this diarrhea, tampon, enema story. I think those episodes are from his own life….

    Then he may have talked to the N5 again and told them these stories to spread them in the media. In other words: I think it was a collaboration between the N5 and VG.

    Like

  119. June 8, 2011 4:44 pm

    “I don’t know if I really agree with you. I really believe the Neverland 5 spoke to him and told him what is in the book.”

    Shelly, I must have made myself not too clear on this issue (now I have rewritten it a bit). I think VG did talk to them – Adrian McManus never denied it and Blanca Francia and Orietta Murdoch talked to him too (according to the newspaper article we studied). As regards Ralph Chacon I was very much surprised to see his denial of any contact with Gutierrez in his testimony – he was probably lying under oath when he was saying it. But whichever is the case with Ralph Chacon – whether he was lying during the trial or lying when he was speaking to Gutierrez or doing both – it doesn’t change the essence of these people.

    I am very interested in looking into the Neverland Five further and comparing their testimonies with Gutierrez’s words, as I really want to know the truth behind all these stories – who said what and why. One of the next parts will be about them, but studying all those testimonies and comparing them will take time.

    Like

  120. shelly permalink
    June 8, 2011 4:26 pm

    @vindicate,

    I don’t know if I really agree with you. I really believe the Neverland 5 spoke to him and told him what is in the book.

    Like

  121. June 8, 2011 3:25 pm

    Suzy it’s obvious VG is suffering form several paraphilias-klismaphilia among them. The guy is a severe mental case and he can’t help exposing himself in every given chance.

    Like

  122. June 8, 2011 1:54 pm

    “I couldn’t make it all the way through his book. What a disgusting piece of garbage.”

    Dear Tatum and readers – yes, this book is an unbelievably disgusting piece of garbage.

    I hope you understand that speaking about VG’s filth is a very difficult task indeed. On the one hand all of us should know over which piece of garbage Michael was trashed for most part of his life and on the other hand this filth is almost impossible to read. This is probably what Michael’s haters always counted on. The book itself was never promoted in the media – they stealthily used Gutierrez’s lies without naming the source. The media coverage was actually permeated by Gutierrez’s poison. His lies have become so deeply rooted in the minds of the public that at least half of the 2005 trial was based on it. And the more we read of VG’s book the more proof of it you will find.

    So it seems that it is necessary for all of us to know what source is being used by Michael’s haters as their Bible. If you ever raise yourself to read it my advice is to replace the name of MJ with the name of Victor Gutierrez as what you are reading is about Victor Gutierrez anyway! This way you will get familiar with the haters’ bible and will not form any connection between it and the man they wanted to smear with it. At least this is the method I am using and intend to use in the future.

    Victor Gutierrez is the key player in the whole game and the world should know it “heroes”. He is absolutely no chance passer-by in Michael’s harassment campaign – please remember that he worked for Martin Bashir at ABC, was a co-producer for Dateline on NBC during the trial and is still considered by some as the “best expert” on MJ.

    And all this despite him being a practically mental case.

    Like

  123. Suzy permalink
    June 8, 2011 1:42 pm

    In VG’s story it’s Brett and Jordan who are with Michael in this lion story. In reality it was Wade.

    Here is Jane Goodall talking about her visits to Michael’s Neverland ranch. The only thing she criticized was that the chimps she saw were dressed!

    I guess if Michael had wanted the kids to see how the chimps were playing with themselves he would not have had them dressed!

    Does VG have a sh*t fetish? It looks like he does. I’d really not like to imagine what he is doing in bed. It’s obvious that these are all his sexual fantasies projected on MJ.

    BTW, were these enemas and tampons brought up in the 2005 trial or even Sneddon realized the absurdity of it? Is there any proof at all that Michael had this stuff?

    If Michael had such a serious case of diarrhea, I guess it would have caused him big problems during his public appearances as well. Imagine him doing a concert with this problem…

    Like

  124. hana permalink
    June 8, 2011 1:00 pm

    If the prosecution used this book to build their case, then no wonder why they lost..lol

    Like

  125. TatumMarie permalink
    June 8, 2011 12:27 pm

    I couldnt make it all the way through his book. What a disgusting peice of garbage.

    Like

  126. June 8, 2011 12:09 pm

    VG has turned his own personal experiences into a book. It’s as simple as that and it could not be more obvious.

    Like

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