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WHAT’S WRONG WITH VINCENT AMEN, a one-time associate of Michael Jackson?

March 31, 2023

Vincent Amen, a one-time associate of Michael Jackson, has recently surfaced with some very strange tweets.

His primary target was Joe Tacopina, the former attorney of Donald Trump who is now accused by the New York DA Bragg of paying some money to a porn star. Vincent Amen tweeted that since the Government has problems beating Joe Tacopina, he will do the job for them:

You see… Tacopina May Beat NY District Attorney Bragg for TRUMP. The Government has problems beating Joe Tacopina. But.. I beat Him, Tacopina. Ci Vediamo! Ma che Scemo o Ma che Schemo! An espresso toast! Un Doppio..

Translated from Italian:

“We will see each other! What a Fool or What a Scheme! An espresso toast! A double

The above looks like some incoherent drivel, but what is clear from it is that Vicent Amen is determined to do away with Joe Tacopina. He continues in an even more pompous fashion:

This is the link to the article on Joe Tacopina’s website. Let me say something: God, The Universe brings you to a crossroads sometimes. One chooses Good or Evil. Guess what I choose, Good, Children. Tacopina chose Evil. It’s locked in @DiDimond

So on his noble mission to sink Joe Tacopina Amen claims that he” chose Good” while Tacopina “chose Evil”, and then he refers us …to the Twitter profile of Diane Dimond whose whole career was built on demonizing Michael Jackson. Does all of it mean that Vincent Amen is ready to throw Michael Jackson under the bus in order to sink Joe Tacopina?

It does, because all of sudden Amen claims that Tacopina “covered up” for Jackson:

Listed on Notable Case, is that he represented “Jackson Associates”. That would be me and Frank Cascio. I’m the one who paid Joe Tacopina, hired him. It’s unfortunate how it turned out with Tacopina deciding the cover up for Michael.@DiDimond

This lie from Vincent Amen is something new on the horizon – when Michael Jackson was alive he never said anything even remotely close to the above. But the more he tweets now the worse it grows:

Trump Lawyer Joe Tacopina Previously Called Stormy Daniels HushMoney Scheme Illegal Tacopina was the 1st attorney I hired for the Michael Jackson Trial. He possesses Michael Jackson’s Child Pornography Magazine. I Changed Attorneys @DiDimond

The story gets “sick-er”. After Tacopina saw the child pornography magazine with “Little Naked Boys”, Tacopina goes on TV calling Michael Jackson Innocent, Michael would never would do that. I watching Tacopina sway Public Opinion. Then it gets “sick-er”, the story @DiDimond

Now that is completely outrageous. Vincent Amen claims that Joe Tacopina allegedly possesses a “child pornography magazine with Little Naked Boys”, which initially belonged to Michael Jackson, and despite that Tacopina still called Michael innocent, and this is when and why the outraged Vincent Amen changed attorneys?

But the whole thing is a pack of lies from beginning to end!

The lies are indeed outrageous, but also somewhat desperate and pathetically stupid, I would say, which will work only for those who are unable to put two and two together, don’t go beyond the headlines and have no idea who Vincent Amen is.

It is even interesting what made Vincent Amen fall so low, and this required in-depth research as a result of which I am making this post now. Here is just a fraction of what I’ve found.

WHO IS VINCENT AMEN?

Vincent Amen on Twitter

Few people know who Vincent Amen is, and from his tweets they may get an impression that he was someone important in Michael Jackson’s life.

The journalist Roger Friedman, for example, thinks that Amen worked for Michael Jackson “since 1993”.

This is wrong as Vincent Amen had not even met Michael Jackson until 1996 when he was 16.

Vincent Amen got acquainted with MJ through Frank Cascio and it was Frank Cascio he associated with since 1993.

Cascio and Amen are the same age, both were born in 1980 and lived in New Jersey, both are of Italian origin and have been school friends since the 8th grade. In 1996 Vincent Amen used to hang out with Frank at the Cascios’ house in New Jersey and on one of the occasions when Michael Jackson stayed there Amen met Jackson for the first time.

He was 16 then, but he went to Neverland and began working for Michael Jackson only in 2003 when he was 23.

Amen speaks about it himself:

“My name is Vincent Amen and I worked for Michael in 2003 – together with Frank Cascio, his personal assistant back then. I got to know Michael as a very cordial and friendly person who never missed a chance to let us know how much he appreciated our hard work.

Me and Frank were childhood friends and since Frank was also good friends with Michael, I first met him back in the 90s when he would visit Frank’s house where Frank and I would be hanging out together. When I first met Michael, I said “Nice to meet you Mr. Jackson”, and he quickly said “Call me Michael, no need to address me by my last name.” Michael wanted us to be casual around him, he was very nice and open to meet Frank’s friends, like me, even though he was a superstar and I had to be a teenager of 16 years at the time.”

In fact there is no record that he had ever been to the Neverland ranch until the moment he was hired by Michael Jackson in 2003 to work on a video special for Fox. His job was to select some clips from Michael Jackson’s home videos and show them to a Fox producer for further compilation.

Besides that Michael Jackson asked him and Frank Cascio, who for professional reasons went as Frank Tyson at the time, to entertain the Arvizo family while they stayed at Neverland and waited for the media storm from Bashir’s  documentary film about Jackson to die out (Bashir himself didn’t call it a documentary and said to District Attorney Tom Sneddon that it was a “cultural-affairs program”).

What’s also important is that Vincent Amen’s tenure with Michael Jackson lasted for one month only.

We know it from the transcript of Amen’s taped conversation at the Santa Barbara District Attorney’s Office on December 30, 2004.

Item 230

Vincent Amen Interview

Partial transcript

12-30-04

Present: Vincent Amen, John Jay Fahy, Jeff Klapakis, Steve Robel, Gordon Auchincloss

Robel: …Once we get started ….we’re gonna listen and let you take us from the beginning you know, when you first were employed by Michael, how that happened and just take us through you know, your month of being employed by Michael.

Amen: Okay.

 

So Vincent Amen was employed by Michael Jackson only for a month, and only in 2003, and I am specifically stressing this point not to let Amen lie about Jackson any further – like him appointing himself, say, “a witness of MJ’s inappropriate behavior” sometime in the 1990s, for example.

During that month in February-March 2003 Cascio and Amen took care of the Arvizos’ every need – drove Janet and children to shops, spas, movies, to restaurants and medical facilities, and even to her lawyer William Dickerman (twice), and throughout that time the Arvizos never complained about anything.

However it didn’t prevent the Santa Barbara DA Tom Sneddon from calling Amen and Cascio the “co-conspirators” in the alleged abduction and imprisonment of the Arvizo family and threatening to bring charges against them.

Frank Cascio described the experience in his book “My Friend Michael”:

Just before Christmas, on December 18, 2003, Michael was officially charged with seven counts of child molestation and two counts of administering an intoxicating agent, that is, the Arvizos were claiming that he got Gavin drunk in order to molest him. According to the legal documents, these crimes had occurred in February and March 2003, when we were all at Neverland following the Bashir fiasco.

Not long after the official charges were filed, Vinnie and I started getting calls from the district attorney’s office saying they wanted to speak to us because we’d been staying at Neverland during the time in question.

«Frank», Vinnie said. «Look, I don’t know our position, but I think it’s time we got an attorney.»

After meeting with a few superlawyers, Vinnie and I walked into Joe Tacopina’s office in Manhattan..

 Joe spoke to the district attorney’s office. They indicated that they were going to a grand jury which meant they believed they had enough evidence to warrant a trial. Their story was that Michael and I had formed a conspiracy in which I helped him gain access to Gavin, then covered up various nefarious activities and tampered with witnesses.

Over several meetings, Vinnie and I gave Joe a detailed history of our interactions with the Arvizos. Joe thought that we had considerable evidence showing that there had been no conspiracy, but this was a high-profile case with, as he put it, «a rabid prosecutor with a clear agenda.» He worried that Vinnie and I would be dragged into it because the idea of there having been a conspiracy made the case sound even more sinister.

Later in January 2004, when Michael was arraigned, Vinnie and I were named as unindicted co-conspirators. As Joe explained the co-conspirator charge, it meant that we weren’t being charged with any crimes and that the prosecutors had no evidence against us. We were safe ”for now” but if Michael was convicted, they would probably charge us.

The fact that I hadn’t been charged at the arraignment meant that I wasn’t about to be subpoenaed or arrested, but Joe still didn’t want me to be in touch with Michael. Against his advice, I flew to L.A. with my father and Eddie to visit Michael for a couple of days at the ranch.

When we walked into the main house, my father greeted Michael by reassuring him that we were all there for him and the kids ran up to us and hugged us. Once the kids were out of earshot, we talked about the upcoming trial ”we had to” but then we tried to have some fun.

… we didn’t want to talk about the looming allegations, and we couldn’t come up with any other subject to discuss. I wanted to say, «I told you so,» but I didn’t. And Michael wanted to ask, «How did this happen?» but he didn’t. Instead, we were mostly quiet, and every so often I would say, «Can you believe this fucking family?»

«I can’t believe this shit,» Michael would respond. We would look at each other and shake our heads. It felt like a bad dream.

 After that trip, both my lawyer, Joe Tacopina, and Michael’s lawyer, Tom Mesereau, firmly instructed me not to have any further contact with Michael. If I was called to testify, and the DA asked, «When was the last time you spoke to Michael?» they wanted me to be able to say that we hadn’t spoken since the charges were filed.

 I had confidence that our attorneys would reveal the truth, but our trial in the court of public opinion was a separate matter. A journalist named Roger Friedman was covering the trial for a Fox News entertainment blog called FOX411. I had never spoken to the press about Michael before, but this Roger Friedman was writing daily stories and his information was wrong. Now, frustrated with what I saw in his columns, I decided that if they were going to write about me, they might as well have accurate information. I wanted to get the truth out.

 Vinnie and I met Roger at a coffee shop on Seventy-sixth and Broadway. Vinnie put a big metal briefcase on the table and unsnapped it. He opened it wide, and Roger leaned forward for a closer look. Inside were piles of receipts. We explained to him that these were receipts from everything we had spent money on when we were taking care of the Arvizos during their stay at Neverland. There were receipts for hotels, movie theaters, restaurants, and spas. The press had been accusing us of kidnapping her, but, as was instantly clear to Roger, these were not the expenditures of kidnappers and their hapless victim. We had kept her comfortable and entertained while waiting for the media surrounding the Bashir video to die down.

Roger Friedman remembered it too:

“When those guys — Frank Cascio and Vinnie Amen– came to me in 2004 with a huge metal briefcase filled with records of what had gone on, the first thing I remember saying to them was, “Are you sure the Arvizos didn’t kidnap you?”

Frank Cascio says that before MJ’s April indictment Tom Sneddon spoke to Joe Tacopina and warned him that Frank was on a sinking ship and would “go down with the ship”.  Sneddon offered him their “lifeboat” – the immunity, in case Frank came to the DA’s office and testified against Michael Jackson.

This was actually an official invitation to lie about Jackson and Frank didn’t even consider it, but there can’t be any doubt that the same “lifeboat” was also offered to Vincent Amen and the latter accepted it. To give Amen his due he didn’t lie about Michael Jackson then.

Vincent explained his decision by saying that he would prove to the District Attorney that he and Frank had nothing to hide and the truth he would tell the prosecutors would help to escape jail time in case of a false charge. Knowing Tom Sneddon’s ways the danger of their indictment was indeed real, though Joe Tacopina was sure that even if they were indicted they would be acquitted as the DA had zero evidence against them.

Frank Cascio continues:

That spring, before the indictment, Joe spoke to Tom Sneddon, the district attorney of Santa Barbara County.

«Listen,» Sneddon said, «Frank’s on a sinking ship. He can take our lifeboat or go down with the ship.» He offered me immunity if I came into the DA’s office to testify against Michael.

I know people who watch shows like Law & Order are used to thinking that the DAs are the good guys, but this time they were on the wrong side of the case. Even if I were to be completely honest, they would look for ways to use whatever I said against Michael.

Joe explained to me that this was a common prosecutorial ploy. He had met with these people, and was certain they had no evidence against me. They were bluffing. Still it was Joe’s duty to remind me that I stood to be charged with a serious felony, and that in such a situation plenty of people would run straight to the DA. It was a no-brainer for me. I told him I stood by Michael and wanted to stay the course.

…I was lying in bed, with Valerie beside me, when the phone rang. It was Joe Tacopina. He said that Vinnie had gotten his own lawyer. I couldn’t believe it. Joe told me not to worry about it, but I was hurt. Why would Vinnie do this? Weren’t we in it together? Part of why I wanted to stick with Vinnie was that I felt horrible about and responsible for his situation. I had known him since I was thirteen years old. I brought him into Michael’s world, and now he was in this unthinkable situation because of it.

I called Vinnie, who tried to calm me down.

«Frank, you have nothing to worry about. We’re still working together. Legally, it’s just better if we have different attorneys. »

I didn’t like the idea, but it was what he preferred, so I went along with it. But then Vinnie decided to talk to the DA. He had done some reading on other cases in which people had been falsely accused, and he and his lawyer decided it made sense to tell his side of the story. There was so little evidence to support the conspiracy charge that Vinnie thought he could show the DA that they didn’t have a case without implicating anyone else.

He explained that he had not held Janet Arvizo hostage, that when he drove her around to various appointments, she had ample opportunity to ask for help or «escape.» He thought this was a good legal move on his part and that it showed the public that we had nothing to hide. Understandably he was tired of being stuck in legal limbo, of being trashed and slandered by media sharks.

As much as I accepted his logic, talking to the DA was like talking to the devil in my eyes. They were building a case against Michael and against Vinnie and me. They were already going to trial. The truth was irrelevant to them now; what mattered to them was building their case and winning.

I couldn’t believe he had done this. I felt betrayed. I thought we would go through this together, but for the rest of the trial, and afterward, I wouldn’t speak to Vinnie. Eventually I understood that Vinnie didn’t have the same history with Michael, or the same loyalty to him. Whereas I was willing to sacrifice anything for Michael, Vinnie wanted to make sure he didn’t see any jail time and if talking to the DA ensured that, then he would talk to the DA. I was so pissed at Vinnie that I didn’t speak to him for years. …

Now let us fit the above into the timeline of the events. More details were provided by our David Edwards in this post, so here I will select only some milestones which led Vincent Amen to an eventual deal with the Santa Barbara District Attorney Tom Sneddon.

  • Bashir’s slanderous “cultural-affairs program” about MJ was shown on February 3rd in the UK and on February 6th, 2003 in the US.
  • Since the moment it aired the Arvizos were relentlessly sought after by the media and found shelter at Michael’s Neverland to avoid the media’s frenzy. According to Sneddon their stay at Neverland began on February 7th, 2003.
  • On February 8th, 2003, the 60 Minutes journalist Ed Bradley arrived at Neverland to shoot an interview with Jackson about the Bashir film and found the Arvizo family at the same table with him having meals. They offered nothing but praise for Jackson.
  • On February 20th the Arvizos were interviewed by the DCFS social workers and again spoke of MJ in glowing terms. Incidentally, in late March 2003, Janet ran into one of those DCFS social workers while shopping and didn’t say a word of complaint to her again.
  • On the same day of February 20th the Arvizos shot the rebuttal video. Janet Arvizo and her children vehemently defended Michael by making statements such as: “Daddy Michael rescued us. Took us into his fold, became the surrogate father.” “God’s grace as God works through people, so does the devil. But God elected to work in Michael to breathe life into Gavin and to my two other children, and to me a much necessary love in a very traumatic time in our life.”

The Arvizo rebuttal video (screenshot)

  • On February 21st and 25th Janet Arvizo met with her attorney William Dickerman regarding the furniture put in some storage, and again didn’t mention the family being “abducted” and kept at Neverland against their will.
  • Despite all that and lots of other factual evidence Sneddon claimed that the Arvizos were “imprisoned” at Neverland from February 7th to March 10th, later changed into March 11th and then to March 12th 2003. This and other shifts in the timeline had to be made by the District Attorney because it turned out that Michael stayed at Neverland on occasions only and was not present when the alleged “molestation” of Gavin Arvizo allegedly began. Initially they claimed that it happened much earlier but as a result of the adjustments the prosecution scenario ended up with a version that MJ decided to “molest” Gavin right before the boy’s departure from Neverland.

The final tale was so absurd that Matt Taibbi of the Rolling Stone magazine called it circular, fantastic and downright mad. See page 6 of his book “Smells Like Dead Elephants”:

It was only after the filming of this so-called rebuttal video … and after the authorities had begun an investigation into Jackson’s relationship with the boy, that Jackson allegedly molested the child, in early March.

The prosecution’s case therefore boils down to this: in a panic over negative publicity, Jackson conspires to kidnap a boy and force him to deny acts of molestation that in fact never happened, and then he gets over his panic just long enough to actually molest the child at the very moment when the whole world is watching.

Thomas Mesereau was also amazed by the absurdity of Sneddon’s claims:

“The sexual abuse is supposed to have taken place when Mr. Jackson was under intense scrutiny because of the documentary by the news media, law enforcement and child welfare authorities, Mr. Mesereau noted.

“In the middle of all this is when they say the child molestation occurs,” he said. “Can you imagine a more absurd time for it to happen?” 

The timeline of the allegations is indeed sheer madness and is actually all you need to know about the Arvizo case, but let us continue with this craziness to see when Vincent Amen and Joe Topicana came into the picture.

  • When the Arvizos left Neverland nothing else happened, but by the summer of 2003 the family realized that they had missed a chance to extort Michael Jackson for money, so they made up a crazy story of “molestation” and took it to Larry Feldman, who was Jordan Chandler’s attorney ten years prior to that.
  • However, due to the changes in the legislation a civil lawsuit could no longer precede a criminal case as it did in 1993, so to their great disappointment the matter had to be taken to the prosecution first. This is when the DA office renewed their criminal investigation of MJ which was initially opened immediately after Bashir’s film but was closed a couple of months later due to total lack of evidence against MJ.
  • Then the Santa Barbara District Attorney Tom Sneddon waited until November 18th, 2003, the exact date of releasing Michael Jackson’s Number Ones album, and sent about 70 policemen to raid the Neverland ranch. Diane Dimond was waiting at the gate ready to report it. The police seized every piece of evidence from the ranch including computers, photos, books, magazines, bed linen, empty bottles, and actually every scrap of paper that could be found on MJ’s property. By the way, Michael Jackson and his children had been away from Neverland for at least 3 weeks by that moment, but the question who drank what and who left their belongings where during his absence was never asked.
  • A month after the raid, in December 2003 the press began talking that a conspiracy charge would be brought against Jackson, and this is when Vincent Amen suggested that he and Frank Cascio should retain an attorney just to be on the safe side. This is when attorney Joe Tacopina came in.
  • On April 21, 2004 Michael Jackson was indicted by a grand jury on multiple charges, including conspiracy involving child abduction, false imprisonment, and extortion. The case was to go to a criminal court now.
  • And a month later, on May 19th 2004 some sources revealed to Roger Friedman that Vincent Amen was already in secret negotiations with the prosecutors.

So by mid-May at the latest Vincent Amen had already flipped everyone off, changed Joe Tacopina for another attorney (John Fahy) and the new attorney had already approached the District Attorney’s office to make a deal for Amen.

Roger Friedman says that Vincent Amen began panicking “in the last few months” before that moment in May 2004 and this means that the coward began panicking almost immediately after the first rumors in December 2003 over just a theoretical possibility of being indicted on a conspiracy charge.

Both Frank Cascio and Vincent Amen were in a status of “unindicted co-conspirators” and Joe Tacopina explained that they were safe ”for now” but could be indicted if Michael Jackson was convicted (MJ was acquitted on all charges in case someone doesn’t know it).

But May 2004 was still one year off from the date of the acquittal, so on May 19 Roger Friedman reported that Vincent Amen’s was in separate meetings with the prosecutors:

“[Tyson and Amen] seemed to be on the same page for a while. They even shared an attorney. But in the last few months, Amen is said to have panicked because he might have big legal problems facing him thanks to the scandal. He changed attorneys and started making his own plans.

It didn’t help that Jackson’s team did nothing to reach out to Amen, my sources said. This was probably a huge strategic mistake. Nevertheless, sources say that Amen’s visit with prosecutors may have had an unintentional effect. At the meeting, Amen finally was able to explain many of the episodes recounted in grand jury testimony and in this column.

For example, Amen told the district attorneys how the accusing boy’s urine sample was ruined on a drive to the medical lab. The boy’s mother said Amen dumped it out, but Amen claims it fell over in his car. I’m told the prosecutors were persuaded that his stories were truthful. That causes a problem for them, however.

In associated testimony, the conspiracy part has taken a beating thus far. Tyson and Amen were said to have held the family for a week in a hotel in Calabasas, Calif. But this column reported exclusively that the family went on wild shopping sprees, to the movies and to many local restaurants. The mother even had a full body wax and a manicure. None of this is considered standard fare during a kidnapping. The family also made dozens of phone calls to friends and family, never mentioning once that they were in any peril.

The family’s attorney, William Dickerman, dealt the conspiracy part of the trial a fatal blow when he was cross-examined by defense attorney Thomas Mesereau yesterday. He admitted to writing several letters to Michael Jackson’s then-attorney Mark Geragos after the family left Neverland for good on March 11, 2003.

The letters, which concerned the return of the family’s meager possessions from a storage vault, were called a “series” by Dickerman. But the lawyer never mentioned in any of them that the family had been “held hostage” or made to do anything they didn’t want to do. At the same time, Dickerman indicated that during his many meetings with the family, none of them mentioned their “kidnapping” either.

In fact, Dickerman revealed that his first two meetings with the family were on Feb. 21 and 25, 2003. Amen drove the mother to the meeting on the latter date. On the same day, he and Tyson took the family on their seven-day shopping trip in Calabasas.”

In short the kidnapping story was a farce and after Janet Arvizo spoke at the trial of the need to escape from Neverland by a hot air balloon no sane person could believe it. However Vincent Amen was frightened out of his wits and worried about everything – even about the unfortunate urine sample that was spilled when he took Gavin and Janet Arvizo to a hospital in 2003.

The appointment with doctors was scheduled for March 10th in order to see if Gavin’s kidney was functioning properly, and Janet Arvizo later accused Amen that he had intentionally spilled the bottle in an attempt to prevent the alcohol in the urine from being detected by doctors and thus ruin her allegation that MJ “plied Gavin with alcohol  before molesting him” at Neverland.

Star and Gavin Arvizo

But I see absolutely no problem for Vincent Amen here – Gavin could have provided a fresh sample of urine upon his arrival at the hospital and if there was any alcohol to detect there it could have been detected anyway.

Most probably Gavin didn’t want to produce a fresh sample himself as numerous witnesses testified that the behavior of Gavin and his younger brother at Neverland had been brash and brazen, and they had broken into Jackson’s wine cellar and drunk alcohol on their own volition.

THE DEAL

Now we know that Vincent Amen and his new attorney contacted the Santa Barbara District Attorney’s office already in May 2004.

But for some reason Tom Sneddon and his people recorded a 3-hour interview with Vincent Amen only half a year later, on December 30, 2004. This is when he was finally offered the so-called “use immunity”, on condition that he told them everything about Jackson.

The frightened Amen told them everything he knew, but the interview didn’t produce anything to bolster the prosecution case against MJ and even “some inconsistencies” contradicting the Arvizos’ story emerged, so the prosecutors decided against calling Vincent Amen as their witness.

This alone is proof enough that Vincent Amen didn’t have any incriminating evidence against Michael Jackson (or Joe Topicana for that matter).

Amen was in so much panic that he was willing to give Sneddon anything he wanted, just to save his skin, however he had nothing bad to say, and at that time he didn’t want to lie about Jackson.

And this means that there was no “child pornography magazine with little naked boys” that allegedly belonged to MJ and is in possession of Joe Tacopina now.

In fact, a thing like that was even technically impossible – Tacopina was retained by Amen and Cascio a month after the police had searched the Neverland ranch and there was nothing for Topicana, or anyone else, to pick up there. Also, Topicana’s line of business was to defend Amen and Cascio in case the prosecution charged them with a conspiracy, so he wasn’t in any way connected with any evidence concerning that fictional “molestation”.

The story about a magazine was simply made up by Vincent Amen and used by him as an explanation why he changed his attorneys. In reality he gave up Tacopina in order to make a deal with Tom Sneddon.

In fact, we needn’t have done any research into this subject as child pornography magazines are not on sale in the US, so even in theory no such magazine could be in Topicana’s possession. And in Michael Jackson’s possession either.

The whole thing is just a malicious invention on Vincent Amen’s part.

You can examine the full list of items seized at Neverland all by yourself  here and you will see that the policeman who reviewed each book, magazine, periodical, photo and every scrap of paper that was in any way connected with children, specifically noted that “none of them would meet legal requirements to be considered child pornography”.

The only periodicals that could probably show nude children and their parents on the beach was a collection of nudist periodicals of 1934/35 and the 1960s, presented to him by his make-up artist Karen Faye.

People wonder why she made that present, and my opinion is that when observing Michael’s skin problems and seeing him exceptionally shy about his looks, Karen Faye wanted Michael to be less inhibited, more relaxed and more confident of his looks.

The nudist movement was a non-sexual philosophy of harmonizing oneself with nature, no matter how you look and of what shape or size you are, young or the sagging old, and it was wildly popular back in the 1960s.

Nudism was not a taboo even in the puritan Soviet Union – both for adults and little children even more so. Nudists didn’t pay attention to each other’s nudity and seeing another person naked on the beach did not sexually arouse anyone.

By the 1990s and 2000s the trend had become more a curiosity than a common activity. A collection of nudist periodicals has turned into a rarity and when you now look at their covers you are amazed to see how innocent those times were, especially in comparison with today’s depravity when nudity has been replaced with pornography.

The nudist magazines mostly showed naked girls on the beach (and not children), so if MJ did see them it does not speak to anything unusual in his behavior.

Actually, nowadays it is hard to find anything comparable to the virgin purity of those periodicals. And it was only the perverse logic of the prosecution that could turn those magazines into something sinister which they actually weren’t:

Searches of Neverland turned up sexually explicit DVDs and magazines, including 1960s-era nudist periodicals with pictures of naked children, Sneddon said. 

Here is  a photo of a “naked child” in a nudist magazine and the general way kids were shown there:

But let us go back to Vincent Amen again.

WHEN THE DEAL IS WITH THE DEVIL

It is clear why the prosecutors didn’t want Amen to testify at the trial – he didn’t say anything bad about Jackson and was therefore of no use to Tom Sneddon. But this is exactly the reason why his testimony was needed by the defense side – it could be helpful to refute the Arvizos’ allegations that they had been “kidnapped”.

So in May 2005, or half a year after the December 2004 Amen’s interview with the prosecutors, the MJ defense attorneys asked the court whether the immunity granted to Amen by Tom Sneddon would apply to his testimony if he testified for them. The defense attorneys asked for the immunity guarantees for Amen in case he was still fearful to testify.

Their motion said:

The prosecution and law enforcement interviewed unindicted alleged co-conspirator Vincent Amen on December 29, 2004. Prior to this interview, District Attorney Sneddon agreed to confer “use immunity” upon Mr. Amen pursuant to Penal Code Section 1324. The agreement was that Mr. Amen be granted “use immunity” in exchange for his truthful statements and testimony concerning his involvement in this investigation.

Mr. Amen submitted to a detailed interview with law enforcement and the prosecutors, in the presence of his attorney. The interview lasted several hours. Much of what Mr. Amen told the government contradicted the statements of the Arvizo family and defeated circumstantial evidence inferences which the prosecution has made. As a whole, Mr. Amen’s statements were exculpatory. The District Attorney did not call Mr. Amen as a witness.

The defense intends to call Mr. Amen as a witness and expects that this Court will honor Mr. Amen’s deal with the government. The Court should clarify that as long as Mr. Amen lives up to his end of the deal and testifies truthfully his testimony is protected by the use immunity already granted by the government.

May 9, 2005

But the prosecution absolutely didn’t intend to honor their deal with Vincent Amen. Gordon Auchincloss’s reply was devastating.  It turned out that their meeting with Vincent Amen had been “informal” and their agreement on immunity was “verbal” only and since they didn’t wish to summon Amen as a witness there were no grounds for granting him any immunity.

Here is the prosecutor’s reply:

On December 30, 2004, Vincent Amen, his attorney John Fahy, District Attorney Thomas W. Sneddon, Jr., Senior District Attorney Gordon Auchincloss and Santa Barbara Sheriff’s Lieutenant Jeff Klapakis had an informal meeting at the Santa Barbara County District Attorney’s Office. The meeting was arranged after Mr. Fahy contacted the District Attorney’s office and expressed his client’s desire to cooperate with law enforcement in an interview. During this meeting, Mr. Fahy expressed the opinion that his client was not culpable for any criminal wrongdoing but was concerned about statements his client might give during testimony at trial that could be used against him in some future prosecution.

It was verbally agreed among those present that, should Mr. Amen be called as a witness to the stand by the People, the People would petition the court for a grant of use immunity. A recorded interview of Mr. Amen was subsequently conducted and provided to the defense. Due to time constraints this interview was never completed.

Several material inconsistencies emerged during Mr. Amen’s partial interview and it was decided that the People would not call Mr. Amen as a witness. The People do not intend to call Vincent Amen and therefore will not be requesting that the court grant use immunity to this witness.

Dated: May 18, 2005

Signed by Gordon Auchincloss

 

In their objection to the above reply the defense attorneys referred to the transcript of Amen’s interview which didn’t say anything about any conditions set by the prosecutors:

Amen: And again the full story I — nothing can be sued against me?

Robel: Well, what we’ve done is, this is a proffer of — we mentioned it—, a proffer of when you’re aware. Nothing can be used against  you directly, it can be used against you for cross-examination or any fruits coud, they could check ot any fruits or check out any leads. That is …

Auchincloss:  And ths is the agreement, in California we call it “use immunity”, so nothing you say in this interview can be used against you. If we just — something Jay said is — we can go out and obtain fruits from this interview. Ah, but the fruits of that interview cannot be used against you. And if we obtain, find something as a result, direct result that we wouldn’t have found otherwise of this interview, we can’t use that against you. Okay, so it protects you for purposes of what you say here today. Alright.

Amen: Okay.

 

But Tom Sneddon’s cold reply dotted the i’s and crossed the t’s – the deal was valid only in case Vincent Amen was called to testify by the People, but since they decided against using his testimony, any claims for immunity for him as a witness for the Defense were groundless. No word was said that the original agreement stipulated nothing of the kind.

Here is Tom Sneddon’s reply:

Actually, the agreement was that Mr. Amen would be granted “use immunity” if he were called by the People to testify in this matter, and he was assured that his statements to the prosecutors and investigators in the course of the interview would be used against him in any later prosecution of him.

Defendant’s apparent belief – that the informal assurance of immunity given Mr. Amen to encourage him to discuss his role in the events surrounding the Arvizo family’s interaction with Defendnat Jackson obliges the prosecutor to petition this court for a grant of formal immunity to Mr. Amen so that he might testify for the defense at trial – is groundless.

DATED: May 20, 2005

THOMAS W. SNEDDON, JR.

District Attorney

 

In other words, the prosecution promised immunity to Vincent Amen if only he spoke against Jackson and agreed to tell lies about him, but since he told them the innocent truth, the prosecution was no longer interested and even indicated that if Vincent Amen spoke for the defense, he could still be charged as an accomplice in a “conspiracy” plot against the Arvizos.

Though they perfectly knew that the plot was non-existent as Amen’s interview had proven it to them.

Thus the prosecution effectively neutralized Amen as a witness by forcing him to make a choice between the immunity in exchange for lies about Michael Jackson and no immunity and the danger of going to jail for telling the truth about Jackson.

At that time Vincent Amen chose to withdraw from the scene of battle by refraining from telling lies about Jackson, but not testifying for the defense either. However today he decided to reenter the scene, and this time on behalf of the devil.

Why so?

THE REASON FOR VINCENT AMEN’S LIES

If we put aside the highly likely but uninteresting scenario that Vincent Amen is simply doing it for big money or other benefits offered to him by Jackson’s detractors, the only other possibility is that Vincent Amen’s U-turn is connected with the danger of jail time again – only not for himself but for his wife Rina Oh now.  

When Ghislaine Maxwell’s sex-trafficking activities were investigated it was found that Rina Oh was Jeffrey Epstein’s enabler and facilitator. In 2020 she was recognized as Epstein’s recruiter by several of his numerous victims, so in theory Rina Oh may be even charged with being complicit in his crimes.

Vincent Amen’s wife Rina Oh

In these circumstances Vincent Amen and Rina Oh could easily receive an offer they couldn’t refuse – they are to malign, vilify and slander Michael Jackson, and discredit Joe Tacopina on the way, and in exchange the authorities will close their eyes on Rina Oh’s own crimes against the young victims of Jeffrey Epstein and will grant her immunity.

History seems to be repeating itself – they already did it to Vincent Amen once, so it was no problem for him to go down the familiar road again.

The deal may explain Vincent Amen’s sudden activity against Jackson right at the time when the investigators were looking for Ghislaine Maxwell’s enablers.

First there was a rumor about his teaming up with Diane Dimond sometime in 2019.

The same year he obtained the publishing rights for an alternate juror’s notes made at the Arvizo trial and published them in September 2020 (see a reader’s review of the book) suggesting that people read it and come to their own conclusions about the verdict – though the juror’s notes are very fragmented, disjointed, taken out of context and can provide a screwed view of the trial.

And in the same year 2020 his wife Rina Oh spoke to a journalist and somewhat out of the blue mentioned Michael Jackson in connection with Jeffrey Epstein and his victims, leaving us with a vague feeling that she knew something sinister about Jackson but didn’t disclose it.

She even said that it was her husband Vincent Amen who “inspired” her to speak.

When you pick up these and other loose ends you get the impression that both of them are on a mission to stigmatize MJ further in order to get a deal with the authorities – to buy leniency for themselves as well as the media’s loyalty towards Rina and her doings. Otherwise it would be impossible to imagine why Vincent Amen would encourage her to speak.

Most probably someone’s big idea is to use Rina Oh’s scandal as a prelude to a new scandal about Jackson and present her as a victim of a predator by invoking the name of Michael Jackson and making a direct link between the innocent man and the real sex offender.

However it’s no use pretending that Rina Oh was a mere victim.

Epstein was her patron and “boyfriend” to whom she brought other girls who were her friends and who were unaware of what was awaiting them, and the extent of Epstein’s gratitude to her was so big that he rented her a flat and gave her a scholarship to take classes at the School of Visual Arts.

Epstein’s main accuser Virginia Giuffre wrote in the draft manuscript of her memoir, used at Ghislaine Maxwell’s trial, that Rina Oh even participated in sexual abuse and was especially intent on “bondage, whipping, hitting and cutting her sex partner with little sharp knives” which left Virginia with a 6-inch long scar on her leg.

Rina Oh and Virginia Roberts-Giuffre

Virginia and other Epstein’s victims were outraged that Rina presented herself as another of Epstein’s victims.

“Rina — if you read this I hope you live in shame for the rest of your life,” Virginia wrote. “You don’t intimidate me any longer & the physical & mental scars you left me with should be enough to put your a– in jail,” she added, along with a #LockHerUp hashtag.

She called Oh’s podcast interview “pathetic excuses from a deranged woman who was NO victim & should be sitting in jail next to #GhislaineMaxwell.”

“Rina — woman to woman, now that I am a woman, U disgust me,” Giuffre tweeted, calling her “an oxygen thief” and “a virus on humanity” who “procured & partook in the abuse of minors” with Epstein and his madam, Ghislaine Maxwell.

Isn’t it amazing that those who accuse Michael Jackson invariably turn out to be sex offenders themselves or at least their accomplices? The NAMBLA attendee Victor Gutierrez, the convicted pedophile Rodney Allen, the unscrupulous Diane Dimond for whom Gutierrez was “the best source” and now a sex-offender’s recruiter Rina Oh and Vincent Amen who is covering up for his wife…

And isn’t it all the more amazing that the law enforcement consistently turn a blind eye on these people while focusing on the innocent Michael Jackson instead?

Epstein ‘recruiter’ admits bringing girls to him and shopping with sex slave Virginia Roberts for schoolgirl outfit

Jessica Kwong

Published: Oct 28 2020

Rina Oh, 41, confessed in the podcast Broken: Seeking Justice that she dated Epstein and that he requested she bring him good-looking women including former model Marijke Chartouni.

However, Oh denied allegations from Chartouni and Virginia Roberts—another accuser who mentioned Oh in her memoir—that she perpetrated or directly participated in any sexual abuse they experienced.

In the podcast reported by the Daily Mail on Wednesday, Oh admitted that she participated in numerous activities involving Epstein, the American financier and convicted sex offender who died in August 2019.

Oh opened up about Epstein apparently asking her to take Roberts, then 17, on a shopping trip to find a “little school girl outfit.” When podcast host Tara Palmeri asked Oh if she thought it was strange that Epstein wanted a 17-year-old young woman dressed like a school girl, Oh responded, “I wasn’t asking questions. I just did as I was told.”

The mystery recruiter said, “I’ve brought three people to, to that place,” referring to Epstein’s mansion in New York, and that “when I’m, ready to talk about it, I’m gonna I talk about it.”

But Oh insisted: “My side of the story is I did not abuse anyone, period. People that knew about him wanted to meet him. And I brought those people there, period.”

A draft manuscript of Roberts’ memoir that was among court documents that became public last August stated that Epstein met Oh at an art gallery where he bought some of her pieces. The memoir alleges various sexual encounters, including that Epstein asked Oh to help Roberts massage him.

Oh, at the time about 21 years old, “loved bondage, whipping, hitting and cutting her sex partner with little sharp knives until they subdued (sic) to her punishment in agonizing pain,” Roberts wrote in the memoir. 

In addition, the manuscript states that Epstein was “absurdly taken” with seeing Oh use whips and toys on Roberts, and rented an apartment for Oh. 

Roberts said that Oh “fit into the subservient category” that Epstein liked and that she had a “bubbly persona.”

Oh is married to Vincent Amen, who worked and lived on Michael Jackson’s Neverland ranch, and it is he who inspired her to speak.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1706966/epstein-recruiter-admits-bringing-girls-shopping-schoolgirl-outfit/

~

…The interview with Oh came about after Marijke Chartouni found her: she has become the unofficial private investigator for Epstein’s victims and has helped to find their recruiters.

Through intensive online research Chartouni tracked Oh down to her home in New Jersey and she agreed to speak.

She said her reason for talking is that her husband is Vincent Amen who worked for Michael Jackson and lived on the Neverland ranch. Amen was named as one of the five alleged unindicted co-conspirators in the unsuccessful 2005 prosecution against Jackson for molesting minors. Amen denied the allegations.

Amen told Oh that getting his story out there saved his reputation and she decided to do the same.

Oh became evasive when pressed about why she didn’t raise the alarm [when she learned of Virginia Roberts’ abuse].

She said: ‘And you’re asking me, well, what was she doing? I was like, well, she was there to serve a purpose. She was brought in to serve a purpose. Like she was groomed to do this……at an early age’.

Oh has asked lawyer Brad Edwards to help her apply for compensation for the Epstein’s victims’ fund, which will be paid for from his $640m estate.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8885837/Mystery-recruiter-Epstein-admits-bringing-girls-pedophile.html

It seems that Amen thinks that his deal with the prosecution “saved his reputation” in 2003,  so now he encourages his wife to follow his steps.

Rina Oh decided to play a victim card and even alleges now that she “had to be victimized to understand what happens to victims”. She says she went to Epstein “for a reason”, same as her husband Vincent was involved with Michael Jackson also “for a reason” (?)

October 30, 2020

 “I wish I didn’t bring anyone there. I wish I didn’t go there. But I went there for a reason.

“My husband was involved with Michael Jackson, for a reason. Between the two of us, we know everything that we need to know,” she said.

“I had to be victimised to understand what happens to victims. Between the two of us, we do talk about it all the time,” she said.

Despite Ms Oh’s denials, Ms Giuffre on Wednesday tweeted that Oh is a “virus on humanity”.

Just look at this Rina Oh’s wild gibberish.

So she went to Epstein for a reason. Meaning what? Meaning that she wanted to be victimized to understand what happens to other victims? What an absurd idea!

And according to her, Vincent Amen was also involved with MJ for a reason. What reason, I wonder? Money, basking in the limelight of Michael’s fame, enjoying himself at Neverland or wanting to make a career at Michael’s expense? Did I forget anything to mention?

And why is this enigmatic talk about what “they know between the two of them” and discuss “all the time”? Give free rein to your wildest fantasies, don’t restrain yourself and think the worst about MJ that you can only imagine!

In 2020 Rina claimed that the two of them keep talking about “it” all the time, but in 2022 she revealed that her sufferings at the hands of Epstein were so horrible that she kept them a secret for 20 years and didn’t speak about them even with her husband.

So what did they talk about all the time then?

“I knew I was a victim after that last incident, but I was in so much shock and trauma that I sort of suppressed what he did for decades,” Oh says. “For two decades I never talked about it. I kept it as a secret, nobody knew. My husband didn’t even know.” 

Now she is shedding crocodile tears over her misfortune and the media is certainly ready to offer her a sympathetic shoulder to cry upon.  Within the last two years the tone of their publications has drastically changed and a whole series of articles to portray Rina as an ordinary victim has appeared.

And this could be easily expected.

Rina Oh thought Jeffrey Epstein was going to be her art patron. Two decades later, she’s coming to terms with being among his victims.

Ashley Collman

Jan 20, 2022

….Maxwell’s recent conviction brought little more closure for Oh, who says she doesn’t think the pain “will ever really go away.”

“I think I’ll always be scarred by what they did to me,” she says.

During the sex-trafficking trial, Oh says she was struck most by the words of one of Maxwell’s accusers, Carolyn, who said her soul had been “broken.”

“It made me break down because I know what that feels like,” Oh says. “I feel that that was their agenda. That’s what they did. They fed off the pain of others.”

https://www.insider.com/rina-oh-jeffrey-epstein-victim-others-accuse-her-enabling-abuse-2022-1

As you know Rina Oh has applied for a compensation from the fund created to support Epstein’s victims and is also suing Virginia Roberts-Giuffre for 10 mln claiming that she had “falsely accused” her.

And Vincent Amen is tweeting one thing after another trying to demean Virginia and kill two, if not three birds with one stone:

  • Firstly, he declares Virginia Roberts-Giuffre to be a scammer and money grabber. Rina Oh’s own application for a compensation for her activities and her own multi-million lawsuit against Virginia are certainly not mentioned.

“The Giuffre’s don’t work.. what does that mean.. they sue people for a living…how egregious.. The Giuffre’s can keep suing enriching themselves.. million here.. few million there.. Through hard work.. The Amen Family is worth more money than Giuffre’s and generates more money.”

  • Secondly, Amen is still at war with Joe Tacopina.
  • And thirdly, he keeps defaming Michael Jackson with some vague but dirty hints and pompously declares that his children know how to correctly fight back from “him with Jackson” and “how to Win in the US”.

“This all can be attributed to Virginia Giuffre’s false accusal in her manuscript she didn’t write, false accusations in the media; Twitter, Print, TV by Giuffre. One good, it shows to the children how you fight back correctly. They know this from me with Jackson. How to Win in US”

Maybe he does know some crooked ways how to win in the US, but despite all his pathetic self-aggrandizing he actually never fought, at least for the truth.

He proved himself a coward who betrayed both Michael Jackson and his friend Frank Cascio, who bargained with the authorities for separate immunity for himself and sheepishly followed their lead even when they didn’t honor their deal with him, and he still allows himself to be manipulated by others in the interests of those who are consistently working against Michael Jackson (and against Joe Tacopina and even Trump).

In fact, he produces the disgusting impression of a sleazebag who is ready to say anything about anyone in order to save his skin, and do it in the name of “justice”, “helping  victims” and “working for the benefit of people”.

By appropriating all those noble goals he is now telling outrageous lies about Michael Jackson – the man he praised and spoke highly of when he still thought that it was profitable for him to be on Michael’s side.

THE CHARITABLE EFFORTS OF MJ

by Vincent Amen, USA

“Michael, I saw first hand  your work and your wish to make this world a better place – and you truly excelled. I saw you charitable efforts and they made and make a difference for so many people. I also saw first hand what Janet Arvizo tried to accomplish and she truly failed in front of the world.”

But now he is singing another tune. You are already familiar with his tweets, but here are some screenshots from his August 2021 interview with the Alpha publishers who published his book with the alternate juror’s notes.

In this interview he says that the book was published for “educational purposes” so he hopes that the juror’s trial notes “will help the legal system”.

He claims there that he is “compassionate to victims” and doesn’t want to criticize the Arvizo boy because there is a possibility that “the child was victimized” after all.

He declares that now he has a political side to him which he hasn’t realized before. And he learned “how to fight”.

He says that he loves to do what his wife does. She is a creator.

He reveals that he “deals with media” and “works with reporters” and it is “another side project that he does”. He does it “on a local level, as well as on an international level”, which means that he uses international media to spread his stories there too.

He elaborates in much detail on how he works on “helping victims and standing up for them” and “revealing information to benefit people”, and he would like to be known as “someone that works to benefit people who have been victimized”.

And all of this was said in August 2021 when it was already perfectly clear that his wife Rina Oh was Epstein’s facilitator who had recruited for him her friends, thus betraying their trust and ruining their lives, and who possibly even participated in their abuse.

This doesn’t stop Vincent Amen from proclaiming her a victim, so he is now working for her benefit, together with reporters from the local and international media, and is standing up for her rights.

And in doing so he does not forget about his mission to vilify, slander and betray his former friend Michael Jackson too.

Virginia Roberts-Guiffre called Rina Oh and Vincent Amen “2 sick peas in a pod”. By saying it she meant something different but in the long run she was right.

These two people deserve each other, and one is no better than the other.

51 Comments leave one →
  1. June 25, 2023 2:23 pm

    “My dear Helena I hope you are well with everything that it’s happening over there and I pray for the end of the suffering and loss of life for all of you both countries” – Des

    Thank you, Des, for your prayers. After a year and a half of that nightmare I am a nervous wreck of course, but apart from that am more or less okay. My garden is saving me from the total frustration of seeing it happen, so I load myself with even more work there to take the load off my mind.

    And Michael is also a permanent life-saving boat. In times of crises we need him more that he needs us. It is even amazing how each time I turn to the real Michael (and not that caricature of him painted by the media) he somehow revitalizes me and gives me some comfort. I am sure that the same thing happens to everyone who managed to come closer to his real self.

    This is why I’ve made a post about Brett Barnes today. Despite seemingly not saying very much, Brett’s interview nevertheless manages to convey his sincere love and appreciation for Michael, his unaffected and lasting gratitude to him and the real pain he still feels at losing his friend. No wonder he stayed Michael’s friend until his dying day.

    And in general, the Barnes family comes across as the direct opposite of the cold and practical Joy Robson, for example. Or that jolly Safechuck’s mother who seemed to enjoy all the limelight of the Leaving Neverland film and the alleged “molestation” of her son.
    The Barnes are a stark contrast to all that. Genuine people.

    Like

  2. June 25, 2023 1:52 pm

    “I just stumbled upon some very bad news. Scott Ross is reported to have died.” – Jolie

    Oh, this is very sad. So many honest and upright people are gone in the prime of their lives. Michael Jackson himself and so many of his friends. I’ve lost count of them already…. This evil world seems to be ridding itself of the best. Who are we going to be left with? Only scumbags?

    Like

  3. Des permalink
    June 23, 2023 11:32 pm

    My dear Helena I hope you are well with everything that it’s happening over there and I pray for the end of the suffering and loss of life for all of you both countries it’s not the peoples fault but there the ones who pay the price if only prays can save you. Every time I leave a comment here it’s from the heart and I just want to say that it has been fourteen years since Michael gone but my God he is more alive than ever especially for us that we were not physically close to him every day I see or I learn something about Michael I have grown to love him and respect him even more than when he was alive I don’t compare him with other artists you can not compare Michael Jackson to anyone he was a special and unique human being he represented every religion every colour every country every emotion by being a human by making mistakes and not being perfect by having a plastic surgery by dressing different by being sensitive and being sensual when he was performing by being funny it’s like you can do all these things and more and be a good human being be an inspiration to us without us having to look for perfection or approval or being rich so we can do something good in our lives maybe for each other maybe for our planet it doesn’t really matter like he said it starts with us don’t wait for the governments to do everything you do you part no matter how small that is he was what a universal religion stands for,( LOVE ) (not what they practice some of them).LOVE &PEACE .

    Like

  4. Jolie permalink
    June 4, 2023 12:34 am

    Dear sweet Helena,
    I hope you are well.

    I just stumbled upon some very bad news. Scott Ross is reported to have died. I just want to let you & the fan community know because there is very, very little info on social media. I have a Twitter link from Nicole’s View dated June 2:

    & The MJCast Twitter link dated June 3:

    Actually, I am quite devastated by this…. FYI

    Love,
    Jolie

    Like

  5. April 27, 2023 5:41 pm

    “But this whole thing with Daily Beast also shows how easily some people can be tricked, also the ones that aren’t haters but very gullible, don’t do research of their own. They read the article about how Pellicano had found damning truths about MJ and….damage has been done.” – Tarkan

    Yes, the damage has been done. But you know, it is difficult for me to find fault with people who are bombarded with lies every single day and have no physical ability to fact check every untruth they are told.

    The responsibility to fact check stays with journalists – it is their responsibility first and foremost, otherwise they are no better than propagandists from the worst totalitarian countries.

    What saddened me about that story was that the Daily Beast’s manipulation was deliberate and very sophisticated. They wanted to sit in two chairs – tell a tiny bit of truth in that chart, saying that Pellicano found some damning information about the Chandlers, but pack it in a big and shocking false wrapping in the other article by creating the impression that the damning info was about MJ.

    It was if they were telling the public, “We did tell you the truth and it is solely your fault that you didn’t compare one thing with the other. So we are washing our hands off it”.

    This attitude is probably also taken to avoid any possible lawsuits against them, because technically they are right – they did tell the truth, only they fractured it and turned into a kind of a riddle, and if you didn’t manage to solve it, it is none of their business.

    In short it is a kind of a GAME they are playing with the public. And it is not the first time I notice it – sometimes they will tell you things contradicting each other just in one sentence, but people still don’t notice it because they were trained like dogs to react to only the negative stimulus about Michael Jackson.

    To me this game looks like an intentional mockery of the simple-minded and the gullible, oozing out a kind of intellectual disdain and a feeling of superiority. It is as if they are wondering, “We’ll tell them an even grosser lie this time – interesting if they will notice it, lol”

    In other words, it looks like they DESPISE their readers and think they deserve to be fooled if they allow themselves to be fooled so easily. And the more they lie (and get away with their lies) the bigger is their contempt and disdain for their viewers, readers and followers.

    In my opinion it has to do with the desire of someone to exercise their POWER over people, over their minds and lives, over structuring their lives in accordance with the desired pattern. And I can practically see them laughing at all of us behind the scenes.

    Actually, I have exactly the same feelings about the Russian propagandists – all of them also have a deep contempt for their viewers. The insiders who left our TV channels, unable to bear it any longer, said that behind the scenes those newscasters and hosts of the shows even made cynical jokes about it and told each other, “Now it is your turn to lie”. What they say now, I don’t know because times have changed from relatively vegetarian then to really vicious and fierce now.

    But the process of fooling people itself is essentially the same here and there, and it is probably only the intensity of it which is different.

    This is why lies enrage me so much.

    I feel nothing but rage when they throw them in our faces. Lies are no better than murder, only they don’t kill us physically – they murder our souls. Lies turn us into zombies and make us behave like puppets in the manipulators’ hands. They make us cruel, senseless and inhuman. And murderous towards the innocent.

    Like

  6. Tarkan permalink
    April 26, 2023 4:19 am

    @Helena

    I just finished reading it all about Pellicano. It’s clear as day that he’s in full defense of Michael. He said all those things many times, then there is indeed no way he said anything that’s exactly the opposite. He sounds like a man that actually won’t turn on someone and stab them in the back, especially not someone he clearly respected a lot.

    I do have to say that if that quote is legit “did something far worse to young boys than molest them. ” it is anything but ideal. Ideally he would have clarified what he meant here, because now the media can run with it and make it into something really bad, which they sure did. If its a joke, then wow, but this I doubt. Your guess about what he meant is way more likely, it was crystal clear what these opportunistic families such as Chandler, Arvizo, and now Robson and Safechuck expected that would happen, being set for life with riches.

    But man, I wish Pellicano would have just said this. But again, we’re talking about a source that has no problem deceiving its readers making it seem like damming evidence/truths against MJ were found, for all we know Pellicano did say a lot more but this Daily Beast just intentionally didn’t report it.

    The same with this person on Twitter claiming Pellicano has said he did destroy evidence for MJ. When we look at all the facts from what Pellicano really said in the 90s and way after that, there is no way he ever said this. People really are just making things up.

    But this whole thing with Daily Beast also shows how easily some people can be tricked, also the ones that aren’t haters but very gullible, don’t do research of their own. They read the article about how Pellicano had found damning truths about MJ and….damage has been done. The other day someone on Twitter went around claiming Pellicano fired MJ because of how disgusted he was, and then I see the likes and replied and I’m just…….sigh. For the gullible people it’s so very easy to fall into these traps.

    That’s why I am so thankful for this website and you always being helpful with replies. Because I too can be a bit gullible with some things. Long ago for a brief time I was like “hold on, are all these people conspiring against him? It’s starting to look a bit too crazy.” back then I had read about the former maids and their claims. But then I read about how they admitted on the stand that everything was made up, a lot became clear. It’s unbelievable that McAnus can STILL go on tv (and does so) and repeat these proven lies that she admitted (on the stand of all places) are lies and nothing is done against it. How is this not illegal and punishable by law?

    What this man has gone through, it’s unimaginable.

    Like

  7. April 25, 2023 5:08 am

    “I actually remember those parts about Pellicano allegedly having said MJ did something far worse. This was from several years ago and I believe it was some website that claimed this. If this had even been remotely true for sure he would have done something with it now that he’s free.”- Tarkan

    I made detailed posts “what Pellicano said” around ten years ago. Here is an excerpt from one of them, dated April 2014 (I hope it dispells your worries):

    …As regards Michael Jackson Pellicano always spoke of his innocence. And he did not just say it – he was adamant about it. He said it at all times while he worked for Michael Jackson and after the work was over too, when he quit the job in solidarity with his employer Bert Fields who was fired in December 1993.

    But the most interesting point in Pellicano’s story is that recently, in August 2011 he spoke in the defense of Michael’s Jackson again. It was in an interview he gave from behind prison bars to a journalist of the Daily Beast. The majority of people think that in that interview Pellicano recanted on his words.

    No, he didn’t. He was simply talking about a different thing.

    PELLICANO SPOKE OF SOMETHING DIFFERENT

    The story by the Daily Beast of August 7, 2011 was intentionally structured to produce the effect that Pellicano knew some unwelcome truth about MJ. In reality the same Daily Beast provided irrefutable proof that in his interview Pellicano was speaking about Michael’s innocence and the dark secret found during his 1993 investigation was about someone else.

    The trick was simple but practically unnoticeable.

    In the Daily Beast article of August 7, 2011 called “Hollywood Hacker Breaks His Silence” Pellicano was quoted saying that he quit the Chandler case because he had found out some truths. Then he allegedly dropped an ambiguous phrase saying that MJ ‘did something much worse than molestation’.

    And in the chart published the same day by the same Daily Beast but only on a different page called “Pellicano’s Reach”, Pellicano said that he had indeed found some damning evidence, only it was not about MJ, but was about the accuser’s family.

    This way those who read the article knew one thing, and those who saw the chart knew another thing. And it never occurred to anyone to bring the two pieces of information together.

    However if they do bring them together the true message from Pellicano will read as follows:
    Pellicano did find some truths … and it was damning information about the accuser’s family.

    The way the whole thing was done makes me think that it was a deliberate lie told by the Daily Beast journalist who snatched Pellicano’s words from context and all those ambiguous phrases dropped by her were meant to mask the truth who Pellicano was really talking about.

    Please reread the respective piece from the article again and please first take note of the fact that Pellicano warned Jackson that he had better not be guilty or Pellicano would be the first person Michael to “fuck him over”. Knowing Pellicano’s Cicilian temper I easily believe that he would have done it had he really found anything bad about MJ, especially since Pellicano himself is a father of nine children.

    Also please take note of the dots in the Daily Beast article which can easily stand for a gap in the journalist’s narration:

    “Later in the interview, Pellicano reveals that when he agreed to work for Jackson during the star’s 1993 child-molestation case, he warned Jackson that he’d better not be guilty. “I said, ‘You don’t have to worry about cops or lawyers. If I find out anything, I will f–k you over.’ ” The detective took the assignment, but says, “I quit because I found out some truths . . . He did something far worse to young boys than molest them.”
    But he refuses to say anything more about it. It’s as if Pellicano wants to send Hollywood a reminder: I know which closets hold the skeletons.
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/08/07/hollywood-phone-hacker-anthony-pellicano-breaks-his-silence.html

    And here is information from the “Pellicano reach” chart published the same day on the Daily Beast parallel page which contained the actual truth found by Pellicano. The text accompanying point 7 of the chart says:

    “Facing molestation charges, Michael Jackson reportedly used Pellicano, who claims he found damning information about the accuser’s family”
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/08/07/pellicano-s-reach.html

    To hide the fact that the article about Pellicano’s interview and chart were published on one and the same day (August 7, 2011) the Daily Beast did not place the date on the chart at all. The date of the chart could be found only in its URL and this is what made all this masquarade all the more intriguing:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/08/07/pellicano-s-reach.html

    • Note: Now I am told that the link to “Pellicano’s reach” is no longer working. Well, it means that my diagnosis of the plans of Michael’s adversaries is absolutely correct. They are erasing all traces of Pellicano’s support for Michael Jackson.

    As proof that the Pellicano’s reach chart has been there I’m posting here a screenshot of today’s Google search for it, which shows that only recently the page was there but is no longer available (blocked). It looks like someone doesn’t want the innocent truth about Jackson to be ever known.

    • Actually here is a cached version of the chart: http://web.archive.org/web/20110809130148/http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/08/07/pellicano-s-reach.html

    As to things “far worse than molestation” any normal person will tell you that nothing can be worse than child molestation, except murder, of course.

    So it was either a joke on Pellicano’s part or he was speaking about those families around Michael who initially thought that once they made friends with the famous Michael Jackson they would roll in gold ever since but later found all their hopes shattered into pieces.

    When it turned out that MJ couldn’t sustain them for the rest of their lives and instead of fame their children were doomed to carry the label of Michael’s “boys” forever after, this could indeed be a heartbreaking experience for many of them. The children had to grow up in the ruthless atmosphere of media ridicule and harassment from their classmates and intrusive public, and this way Michael’s desire to help or just be a good friend of the family could indeed turn into their worst nightmare, and this experience was probably far more horrible than any molestation.
    Other explanations of Pellicano’s words are also possible but all of them will amount to one and the same thing – Pellicano was talking not about molestation and this way even from behind bars Pellicano sent us a clear message of Michael’s innocence.

    Barresi, Pellicano and Michael Jackson ‘FBI’ files. Part 2

    Like

  8. Tarkan permalink
    April 22, 2023 5:12 pm

    @Helena

    Again, many thanks for taking the time to respond. Yeah, it seems the person that responded to the other Helena on Twitter is just making things up now. I agree that until we see and hear it from Pellicano’s own mouth we shouldn’t believe a thing.

    I recall that before he started working for MJ he made it very clear he didn’t want to find out he was a bad man, because MJ would be in trouble then. MJ knew who he hired for this. And you’re right, if during Sin Eater he had actually admitted to destroying evidence for MJ the media would have been all over it.

    As for what Madilyn posted, I actually remember those parts about Pellicano allegedly having said MJ did something far worse. This was from several years ago and I believe it was some website that claimed this. If this had even been remotely true for sure he would have done something with it now that he’s free.

    Like

  9. Madilyn permalink
    April 22, 2023 1:13 pm

    @Helena

    Thank you for responding to my questions.

    I knew the website I sent you the link to wasn’t sensationalist at all, it was posted on a fan website.

    When it comes to Pellicano, it sounds like to me these stories about “hiding evidence” and having “dirt on M.J” that he allegedly told are completely made up. Especially considering the fact that he has always said that M.J was completely innocent.

    P.S, I didn’t know what it meant when the Daily Beast article said Pellicano found damning information about the Chandlers, but now I do.

    As for all of the other stuff, I agree with you, those stories should NOT be trusted at all. Gutierrez admittedly attended a NAMBLA conference in 1986, Quindoy was not found credible EVEN by the tabloids, PLUS his stories are full of crap, and Jordan’s description DID NOT match at all.

    Thank you for reading (I’m probably not going to comment here again).

    Madilyn.

    Like

  10. April 22, 2023 8:16 am

    I just realized the link to the website talking about Pellicano is incorrect, here is the correct link:
    https://t.co/662sWjA1fv

    I saw it yesterday and didn’t find anything sensational about it. The article is the usual innuendo dated 2018 where the headline is not supported by the body of the text. Pellicano was still in jail at the time, and this is an echo of the same Daily Beast article I mentioned earlier.

    The answers provided in the thread are perfectly adequate. But I can look again – not now, as I have a lot of work to do in the garden. In case you didn’t notice it, the only chance I can really answer is the night time (in my zone), when all daily chores are done and nothing stands in the way – except the need to sleep, of course.

    In fact, I don’t answer every comment of yours or anyone’s because my research is done mostly at the expense of sleep, so I try to focus on the most crucial ones hoping that people will draw conclusions about the rest themselves…

    Like

  11. April 22, 2023 7:59 am

    “About question 3. You didn’t answer my question about Jordan describing the length of M.J’s pubic hair correctly, probably because I said it wasn’t important.” – Madylin

    I didn’t answer it because it is indeed totally unimportant. And also because I hear that all black men have short pubic hair, so there is no sensation in assuming that a black person will have short pubic hair.

    Wiki says about it:

    According to anthropologist and professor Ashley Montagu in 1989, East Asian people and black people such as the San people are less hairy than white people and West Asian peoples. Montagu said that the hairless feature is a neotenous trait.[19]

    Eike-Meinrad Winkler and Kerrin Christiansen of the Institut für Humanbiologie studied, in 1993, Kavango people and !Kung people of body hair and hormone levels to investigate the reason black Africans did not have bodies as hairy as Europeans.[20] Winkler and Christiansen concluded the difference in hairiness between black Africans and Europeans had to do with differences in androgen or estradiol production, in androgen metabolism, and in sex hormone action in the target cells.

    Over here I can only believe Wiki and other sources as I haven’t checked it myself :). Though looking at black sportsmen, for example, I do notice that they have less body hair than some white sportsmen, for example.

    And lastly, you have said before that Victor Gutierrez created the stories told by M.J’s employees, but the commenter said that the basis of the employee’s stories were true (like the story of M.J not returning Wade to his mother) and Gutierrez changed them to sound suspicious. I know this still sounds hard to understand, I’m just trying to provide more context for what I said.

    By “not returning Wade to his mother” you are evidently talking about Joey Robson looking for Wade while he was at MJ’s studio and being worried that they would not be able to catch a plane back to Australia? And Gutierrez turning it into something suspicious?

    But this was indeed Gutierrez’s usual modus operandi! He took a certain incident in MJ’s life and presented it in a pedophilia style typical for himself and his own mindset. His whole book about MJ is a pedophilia version of Michael Jackson’s wholly innocent life.

    On each page of that book Gutierrez projects only himself and no one else but himself by inventing and adding 90% of his own fantasies.

    As to pedophilia Gutierrez even openly condones it in the last chapter of his book referring to Ancient Greece and dreaming of a time when “pedophilia becomes a norm”.

    In fact, even if we didn’t know that Gutierrez attended the NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association) conference his book alone would be enough to qualify him as a pedophile. This is the actual reason why it was banned in the USA.

    As to his pathological ability to fantasize Gutierrez himself said that the writer Hernan Diaz Arrieta known as Alone who lived not far from Gutierrez’s home in Chile, was once horrified to see that instead of writing a summary of his book he added new characters to it and made it longer than the original story. Arrieta predicted that with so big a tendency for invention Gutierrez would become a writer.

    “Apparently, the elderly Arrieta who rarely went out and disliked meeting people, was disturbed by the boys noise while they played football; he went to them and told them that boys should not play in a residential neighborhood; he added that they should study and read books. Then he asked Victor if he had ever read a book. VG answered only the books that the school forced them to read. Suddenly, Alone went home and came back with one of his books and asked the boy to read it and to write a summary about it. VG did what he was told to.

    In 1996, Gutierrez talked about this meeting in a Chilean TV program called “Reportajes”:

    “When he [Alone] read it [the summary] he was almost horrified. He told me: this is longer than my story! And you have added new characters in the book! Probably, you’re going to be a writer or a journalist.”

    https://nonlocaluniverse.wordpress.com/victor-gutierrez/

    In short, Victor Gutierrez is a pathological liar. And he lies the way he himself likes it best.

    Like

  12. April 22, 2023 7:12 am

    Let me explain question 1. In part 2 of your post about Mark Quindoy, there is something that says he witnessed M.J run his hands down the boy’s legs, thighs, and all around his body, all while the boy was playing with his toys. I was asking who he was talking about when he said this. I’m sorry if you still don’t understand what I’m talking about. – Madylin

    I perfectly understood what you were talking about. But if you really read those posts about Quindoy you should know that Mark Quindoy spoke only about Safechuck (the episode near the pool) and the stay of Wade Robson’s family at Neverland (who stayed there “for a week”).

    There were no other boys mentioned in the prosecution so-called “Prior Bad Acts” motion known as motion 1108, though of all people the prosecutors tried hardest to follow every lead Quindoy gave them and the latter invented lots and lots of things about MJ.
    Here is a quote from the prosecutors’ 1108 “Prior Bad Acts” motion:

    Mr. Quindoy will also testify concerning a number of events, evidence of which does not constitute “evidence of another sexual offense” within the meaning of Evidence Code section 1108. However, disclosure of this evidence is relevant and appropriate as it may illuminate Michael Jackson’s conduct and behavior with regard to children and the parents of those children during their visits to Neverland Ranch.

    And the boy you are asking about is someone Quindoy spoke about in vague terms at his press-conference in 1993:

    He described a scene he had allegedly witnessed involving Jackson and one of his “special friends” as an example. “I swear I saw Michael Jackson fondling the little kid, his hands traveling on the kid’s thighs, legs, around his body. And during all this, the kid was playing with his toys.”

    Out of the two boys mentioned in the 1108 Motion the above can refer only to James Safechuck (and the scene at the Jacuzzi which Quindoy couldn’t see even from the technical point of view) or Robson (about whom Quindoy never said anything of the kind). And this leaves us with only one option – Quindoy invented it through and through just to draw attention to himself at that press-conference and to his future book.

    Judging by the description MJ must have hugged some toddler while the latter was playing with his toys and Quindoy, as usual, made a mountain out of a molehill.

    P.S. Here are the links to at least two posts about the Quindoys:

    What Do We Know About Mariano “Mark” Quindoy? Part 1

    What Do We Know About Mariano “Mark” Quindoy? Part 2

    Like

  13. Dee permalink
    April 22, 2023 6:27 am

    Sorry, but I don’t buy it. Pellicano has been fiercely loyal as regards MJ and was the catalyst in procuring the damning recording of Chandler, proving that Chandler’s motives were nefarious and all about extortion. I will not believe he’s about to sell MJ out now unless I hear it from his own moving lips. Look at the comments in quotation marks for what he supposedly said. The rest is just padding, likely to make MJ look guilty. Unfortunately, when someone is incarcerated, the media have an ‘anything goes’ party in la-la-land. We should know better.

    Like

  14. Madilyn permalink
    April 21, 2023 8:20 pm

    @Helena

    I just realized the link to the website talking about Pellicano is incorrect, here is the correct link:

    https://t.co/662sWjA1fv

    Like

  15. Madilyn permalink
    April 21, 2023 8:15 pm

    @Helena

    Let me explain question 1. In part 2 of your post about Mark Quindoy, there is something that says he witnessed M.J run his hands down the boy’s legs, thighs, and all around his body, all while the boy was playing with his toys. I was asking who he was talking about when he said this. I’m sorry if you still don’t understand what I’m talking about.

    About question 3. You didn’t answer my question about Jordan describing the length of M.J’s pubic hair correctly, probably because I said it wasn’t important.

    When it comes to question 4, the person quoting the tweet by that other person named Helena had a source to a fan website which I looked at, and it mentions that Pellicano claimed he fired M.J because he did much worse stuff. What could be worse than molesting a child though? Here’s the link: https://t.co662sWjA1fv

    P.S (I’m sorry if the link doesn’t work for you).

    And lastly, you have said before that Victor Gutierrez created the stories told by M.J’s employees, but the commenter said that the basis of the employee’s stories were true (like the story of M.J not returning Wade to his mother) and Gutierrez changed them to sound suspicious. I know this still sounds hard to understand, I’m just trying to provide more context for what I said.

    Madilyn.

    Like

  16. April 21, 2023 6:44 pm

    Madilyn, here are the very short answers.

    Question 1. I have read all 3 of your posts about Mark Quindoy. In one of them, you mention a claim he made saying he witnessed M.J fondle a young boy while he was playing with his toys, but he doesn’t directly say WHO the boy was.

    In which post did I mention a claim like that? I don’t remember saying it. The only time Quindoy claimed something of the kind was when he said he had accidentally looked out the window on the second floor of a house near the pool area and saw something “improper” near the pool. The analysis of his words brought me to a conclusion that he had to stand on tiptoe and that he couldn’t see anything at all as there was a tree closing the pool from sight. The story is Quindoy’s invention.

    As far as I remember Quindoy made his diary three years after he left Neverland and a very good thing about it is that though he made up all sort of stories about MJ he didn’t know he should invent a story about the 7-year old Wade left all alone at Neverland for a whole week by his parents, and this is why Quindoy never, ever mentioned it. Neither did Blanca Francia know Wade’s tragic story and didn’t lie about it either. And now it is a bit too late to invent it.

    Question 2. Did Mark Quindoy have financial motives behind his allegations of witnessing inappropriate behaviour by M.J?

    Well, if you read all my posts about Quindoy, you will remember that Mark Quidoy and his wife initially demanded 283 thousand dollars as overtime pay due to them. As their appetites grew the demands escalated to a million which they wanted for his diary, but no one paid them, so the matter was eventually dropped.

    Question 3. I know you’ve gone over this topic far too many times, but do you think that a uncircumcised penis with a short foreskin could be mistaken for a circumcised penis?

    No, there couldn’t be any mistake. These are totally different conditions. Even the short foreskin is still excessive skin, which is like an accordion which can be stretched and squeezed. But you can’t stretch a piano.

    Short foreskin:

    Long foreskin:

    Question 4. I’ve looked at a website talking about Anthony Pellicano’s recent claims about “destroying evidence” and having “damning information about the Chandlers.” What do you think about this recent U turn?

    And what makes you think that he made a U turn? Is it something the media said or did you personally hear him saying it? Please give me a link to the source then.
    Pellicano did indeed have damning information about the Chandlers as the chart from the Daily Beast showed it. I don’t know what Pellicano destroyed, but the Daily Beast did destroy their chart later. Fortunately I saved it, otherwise we wouldn’t have had even that. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the media made a new fabrication about Pellicano.

    Question 5. I saw a comment by a reader on your blog saying that the basis for the employees claims were true (the person used the “M.J didn’t return Wade” story as an example) and Victor Gutierrez twisted their stories.

    I didn’t understand the question. Please explain who claimed what. As to the fact that VG twisted it (whatever it was), of this I am sure.

    Like

  17. April 21, 2023 5:34 pm

    “I was watching an interview with a police officer who used to work with the FBI and Interpoland he was saying there’s no way to recognise a (P )it can be anyone it can be your neighbour your ,brother, your father you could be sleeping with one and they very good at covering up themselves” – Des

    Yes, the fact that they are extremely good at covering up themselves is the ONLY common feature of all p-les. All the rest is different and this is actually why experts say that there is no such thing as a“profile of a p-le.”

    What the media and MJ’s detractors always focus on is that ped-les make themselves look very likable and always produce the impression of your best friends. This is actually true, same as it is true for all con artists who make their living by fooling people.

    But suspecting a person of being a p-le or a con artist only on the basis of him being likable and friendly would be doing a great disservice to millions of people – many people are nice and kind, so what? Does it mean that all these people are monsters who only pretend to be nice and friendly in order to molest someone or swindle people out of their money?

    Thus equating likability with ped-lia is absurd. This feature is not even one tenth as important as the only common distinguishing feature of all ped-les – the fact that they behave in so ideal a way that you will never suspect a thing about them. Even Anna Salter says that even after her 40 years of research and with her experience she will still be unable to recognize a ped-le.

    And if you take this feature as the only one that is common for all sex abusers, MJ will absolutely not “qualify” and will actually pass the test for being completely innocent.

    He may have looked strange, unusual, sometimes foolish, stubborn and having poor judgment – but he was INNOCENT. And that is all that really matters.

    Like

  18. Madilyn permalink
    April 21, 2023 4:43 pm

    @Helena

    This is the first time I’ve commented on your blog, and I just wanna say that I’m very impressed with how much effort you have put into this blog by spreading the truth about M.J! I do have a few questions regarding some of the things I’ve seen and read on your blog though.

    Question 1. I have read all 3 of your posts about Mark Quindoy. In one of them, you mention a claim he made saying he witnessed M.J fondle a young boy while he was playing with his toys, but he doesn’t directly say WHO the boy was. I figured he could’ve been talking about Wade or James.

    Question 2. Did Mark Quindoy have financial motives behind his allegations of witnessing inappropriate behaviour by M.J?

    Question 3. I know you’ve gone over this topic far too many times, but do you think that a uncircumcised penis with a short foreskin could be mistaken for a circumcised penis? I also wonder if Jordan was correct or not about whether M.J had short pubic hair, we already know he got the circumcision issue wrong, and the splotches too, so it might not be that important.

    Question 4. I’ve read a comment on this blog and looked at a website talking about Anthony Pellicano’s recent claims about “destroying evidence” and having “damning information about the Chandlers.” What do you think about this recent U turn? To me, there are several reasons not to trust his claims. First of all, if M.J was guilty (not AT ALL saying he was), why didn’t Pellicano try to cover up for him BEFORE the allegations went public? Second, Pellicano is a convicted felon. Lastly, he claimed he was offered money to lie about M.J while incarcerated, he declined, but he said he still needed the money anyway.

    Question 5. I saw a comment by a reader on your blog saying that the basis for the employees claims were true (the person used the “M.J didn’t return Wade” story as an example) and Victor Gutierrez twisted their stories. But you say Gutierrez made up the whole stories for them. To me, both seem like possible scenarios, but what do you think?

    I’m sorry if these questions seem silly or if they are stuff you have already discussed in the past, I’m not a hater and I’m not trying to anger you. I’m just asking for some help with these questions. Doing all of this research is exhausting and I wish that all of these lies and distortions would just go away so M.J can rest in peace at last, and I can finally take a break from this exhausting research.

    Thank you for reading 🙂

    Madilyn.

    Like

  19. April 21, 2023 4:27 pm

    “it seems that Pellicano might have become trouble too”- Tarkan

    Absolutely not. I haven’t watched the documentary but I’ve seen the interview of the New York Times producers who made the film, and they say that he didn’t have any remorse “for what he did” and from their somewhat disappointed look I gathered that he hadn’t recanted his words about MJ either.

    This is why their film is called “Sin Eater: The Crimes of Anthony Pellicano”.

    What I mean is that if Pellicano had said anything bad about Michael Jackson, the title of the film would have been completely different – something much more sensational, like for example, “Finally: Pellicano tells it all” and the whole attitude towards him would have been much more favorable and overall positive.

    These days if you say something to smear Michael Jackson you can count on a good prize or medal of honor from the media and authorities. Their efforts, motives and attitudes are so predictable that it is even funny.

    The film was made by the New York Times and this newspaper has always been especially ruthless towards Michael Jackson. Which tells me a lot about who these people are.

    And the very fact that they called it “Pellicano’s crimes” shows that it was made as a kind of revenge for Pellicano being “uncooperative” with them.
    Here is the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZz2BCJPPxY

    By the way, is this you or another Helena?

    This is another Helena. I don’t write on Twitter. It is blocked in Russia and I have to use VPN to reach it. And if I do, my internet connection is immediately broken. So accessing Twitter and Facebook is quite an adventure 🙂

    Like

  20. Tarkan permalink
    April 19, 2023 3:40 am

    @Helena

    That’s actually a very good point. In some more alarming news….i guess is…

    A while ago here in the comments we were worried that Amen might become a real nuisance, maybe even a problem, and it seems that Pellicano might have become trouble too. Sigh, always years and years later after having initially always vouched for his innocence. I’m guessing the money is low now.

    By the way, is this you or another Helena? 🙂

    I don’t have the means to watch this doc, but it would be a damn shame if Pellicano really turned on MJ. I remember reading years ago that back in the day he had said to MJ he would go after him if he ever found out he did something before he started his investigation. From what I recall he’s always vouched for him, always said they were out to get him etc.

    So if this is indeed true, then I’m guessing he needs money after having spent time in jail. Because again, never said a bad thing, now after he’s gone, can’t defend himself, it’s so easy to lie on people.

    Like

  21. Des permalink
    April 19, 2023 2:12 am

    Helena
    You are so right a couple of months ago I was watching an interview with a police officer who used to work with the FBI and Interpol on the internet and he was saying there’s no way to recognise a (P )it can be anyone it can be your neighbour your ,brother, your father you could be sleeping with one and they very good at covering up themselves . I remember about ten years ago when I discovered your blog one of my first comments was (if Michael had something to hide he would not parade with children all over the world )the children didn’t let him down the adults did first by using their children and then when these children grew up and after his death and he said it himself.There’s so much we don’t know about other cultures even in my own small country there’s different traditions from state to state even families one thing it’s for sure we were always back then offered our beds to the visitors and to this day I still do the same thing and I will sleep on the floor or the couch, but when I was a young girl I did share my sleeping arrangements with other people, people that I knew boys girls and adults never thought about sex never been exposed to it never had any problems I felt protected and I was protected. Thank you again for everything you do.

    Like

  22. April 17, 2023 5:47 am

    “He never should have said to Bashir about sharing your bed on live TV. Because it’s making yourself a target, a big one at that too.” – Tarkan

    Tarkan, all your questions require a good post. But at the moment let me focus only on the above remark.

    We can dwell here a lot on what Michael Jackson meant by «sharing one’s bed» (he meant giving it to another person as many of his friends explained) but we won’t go into that, because no matter what you say people still take that phrase at its face value.

    So I will mention a much more important point – the fact that Michael talked about it. Most people who are sure of Michael’s innocence criticize him for speaking so openly about “sharing” one’s bed, but they don’t realize that this is the best evidence that Michael was innocent.

    Actually, it is a hard science fact that real offenders NEVER speak about it, NEVER disclose their intentions, NEVER open their minds, NEVER enrage anyone with any inappropriate remarks, NEVER frighten people with anything “weird” and NEVER do anything in public that could arouse even the slightest of suspicions.

    Their whole modus operandi is to present to the world an impeccable image of a perfect citizen and this is why it is so big a shock for everyone when their activities are finally exposed. No one – neighbors, relatives, friends, the colleagues at work – none of these people had the slightest suspicion that the person they respected so much could be a ped-le.

    Michael Jackson was exactly the opposite case. His remarks about “sharing one’s bed with others as the most loving thing anyone could do” outraged and annoyed the public, and kept people constantly on their guard in respect of Jackson.

    Almost everyone thought him to be an offender as a result of his own words, not knowing that this is exactly the opposite of what real ped-les do. Real offenders lead a highly secretive double life and are extremely careful not to raise any suspicions, and in doing so sometimes even pretend to be totally disinterested in children.

    In any case they take special pains to look absolutely normal to everyone around.

    Dr. Anna Salter, the main authority on ped-lia, who is usually quoted by MJ’s detractors, says that offenders keep up appearances so well that it is impossible to distinguish them from normal people. Even she, the author of the book “Predators Paedophiles Rapists And Other Sex Offenders”, and a Ph.D. who has studied them for more than 30 years says that she still cannot tell offenders from other people:

    Dr Salter: I had a neighbour come over and say “I don’t worry about this Anna, I can spot a paedophile”. And I said “Really? Because I can’t”. And she said “Oh sure you can. You’ve been working in this field for years, you write these books, you write academic books, you write mysteries about them. Sure you can spot them”.
    And I said “You know what my 30 years has bought? I know I can’t and you think you can”. And I truly believe that, I can’t spot them anymore than anybody else can.
    https://www.sott.net/article/272019-Behind-the-Headlines-Predators-Among-Us-Interview-With-Dr-Anna-Salter

    In fact, almost every page of her book is warning people that these people produce the impression of perfectly fine, upstanding and responsible citizens and this is why they are so dangerous.

    “Predators keep up an appearance of kindness and likability. Most of the predators I listed at the top of the article were extremely amiable. Several were extremely popular in their social groups. All of them were able to successfully project an image of fine, upstanding citizens. All of them were (and most still are) trusted by those around them. Nearly all have been praised for their fine Christian testimony.” (Salter, p. 26)

    …it is a misconception that child molesters are somehow different from the rest of us, outside their proclivities to molest. They can be loyal friends, good employees, and responsible members of the community in other ways” (Salter, p. 47).

    “Remember that a sexual offender nearly always has to lead a completely double life. The ability to be dishonest yet convincing is a daily requirement, and practice improves that ability. One of the most terrible lessons I have had to apply in my life is essentially impossible to observe: “Never mistake for truthfulness the ability to lie with impunity.” “The only rule for deception in sex offenders I have ever found is this: If it is in the offender’s best interests to lie, and if he can do it and not get caught, he will lie” (Salter, p. 73).

    Q. What makes child molesters so successful in going undetected?
    Dr. Salter: Deception. They are master deceivers. I have found that there are two characteristics of sex offenders:
    • It is in their best interest to lie.
    • It is something they can lie about and not get caught.
    https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/118996-predators-pedophiles-rapists-and-other-sex-offenders-who-they-are

    So let us agree on one thing – real offenders lead a double life. They constantly lie and lie very convincingly. The goal of their lies is to never get caught.

    Compare it with the way Michael Jackson behaved and you will see the stark difference between them and him. It even looks like he did everything in order to be caught, ostracized and harassed. And he repeated again and again: “What’s so wrong with giving your bed to another person?”, though he himself didn’t have any sleepovers with children since the 1993 case and ten years later was extremely wary of allowing the Arvizos to stay in his room (see Frank Cascio for that).

    The why did he repeat that phrase though he himself didn’t practice it any longer? Because it was a matter of principle for him. Giving one’s bed to another has nothing to do with ped-lia and he himself never hurt a child and never would.

    Why MJ thought that giving one’s bed to others was so good and why he allowed sleepovers in his house is a different matter, and is somewhat secondary as compared with the above.

    The main thing is that he opened his mind to everyone and what people saw there was indeed so unusual that they associated it with a crime. It just didn’t occur to them that he was telling the truth – outwardly extremely detrimental to him – but still the truth.

    Like

  23. Tarkan permalink
    April 15, 2023 8:53 am

    @Helena

    Thank you so much for all the information, it’s greatly appreciated. Again, I learn so much from you. I genuinely did not know this about the Dalai Lama. It certainly paints a whole different picture and quite clearly isn’t as black and white as I first thought. Although one thought did cross my mind and that was….if he really had a truly bad intentions, you don’t display this out in the open for everyone to see.

    It’s 100% true about how Michael grossly underestimated things. Sadly he made himself a target quite often too, with behaviour he genuinely didn’t think was strange or unusual, but he really should have realized the reactions by the world wouldn’t be much understanding, if at all.

    This brings me to this. I sometimes have talks about MJ with relatives, acquaintances, and more often than I’d like with detractors on Twitter which 99.9% of the time leads nowhere. I am absolutely a hardcore fan/admirer/supporter, but I’m not the kind to just defend everything the man did blindly. For example, he never should have said to Bashir about sharing your bed on live TV.

    I 100% believe in the man, in that he wasn’t capable of hurting a child, so I know he had no ill intentions with these sleepovers at all, but nor were these exactly ideal. You make yourself a target and this gives ammo to detractors. They go with the narrative that Michael only had boys accompany him to concerts and trips, the narrative created by the media. We as fans know he had boys and girls around him, visiting Neverland, going on trips with him, playing with him etc. So these detractors then come with quotes (no idea where they are from) that for example Michael shared his bed with Jordan Chandler many times while he was at the age of 30 something and that this is an undisputed fact.

    We know he has slept in the same bed with children that weren’t his too, I see several fans on Twitter saying to detractors that Michael never slept in the same bed, but I wish they wouldn’t say this. Since it’s just untrue and it’s not necessary. As a fan you believe he didn’t ever hurt a child, so just don’t dance around facts. You can say you see nothing wrong with it, but they should stick to facts.

    This is often a topic relatives bring up to me too, they’ve seen LN, hated it, wondered how on earth I could still be a fan. I then gave them Loving Neverland, Lies of LN, Square One and you could say they are starting to see the light. But they do go “buddy, be honest, even if you don’t believe he ever had any Ill intent and wasn’t a P, why the need for these sleepovers with kids?

    They bring up stuff like how Barnes’s sister admitted that her brother and MJ did share the same bed many times, they of course bring up Chandler. So while they do see all the lies and definitely are starting to see the way I see things, they do ask me this and I genuinely don’t really know what to say. Except for that he was a child in a man’s body, that the parents of these children were always aware, in fact that MJ made it a case that these kids always asked their parents first.

    And then back to detractors and haters, they come with the “only boys” narrative and the on top of that mention those sleepovers and conclude that this is behaviour of a P. They argue that only because it’s MJ we accept it and don’t find it strange and quistionable and that had he been anyone else we would have thought it to be very alarming. Implying that Michael didn’t know these kids and parents, when he really did, very well.

    But I have to admit that this will probably always be a sensative subject when it comes to MJ. Because again, I fully believe he was not into children, but I’m also not gonna say I didn’t wish he had been more self aware, had not done this (apparently) quite often. Because again, it’s making yourself a target, a big one at that too.

    It also makes people just start lying and making up things. Claiming he would take boys with him on trips (like Safechuck, but we know his mom was there too, and his sister) and then sleep in the same bed too. I don’t recall this at all, because it’s also impossible for anyone to know exactly the goings on of every trip the man made. I’ve seen several detractors claim that Safechuck’s father years ago claimed Michael kissed James on the lips and at that point I’m just done. I’m guessing they got that from the disgusting Victor Guiterez book or the ridiculous MJ Facts website. I wish I knew everything, that way I could just put these clowns in their place but it is what it is.

    Like

  24. April 14, 2023 7:48 pm

    Some people see malice in anything. So what if the little girl isn’t returning it, neither does she look scared in any way, let alone uncomfortable.- Tarkan

    Not only isn’t the girl scared and uncomfortable, but when she grows up she publishes this video as her fondest memory of Michael Jackson. And says:

    Sage (of Sage + The Saints) says one of the highlights of her life was working with Michael Jackson. Some new Behind The Scenes footage was found of the shoot! Happy Birthday Michael. RIP, you are missed. sageandthesaints.com

    Like

  25. April 14, 2023 5:24 pm

    “Detractors have been busy this week comparing Michael to the Dalai Lama, unbelievable. They are desperate and grasping at straws. Yes the video was disgusting, I hate it, but it has nothing to do with Michael.” – Tarkan

    My emotions are so conflicting that I don’t even know where to start. Firstly, the video with the Dalai Lama is indeed very unpleasant to watch, but it seems that this feeling of mine (and yours) as well as the whole outrage are because of the cultural differences – what the European civilization regards as child abuse, Tibetans think to be normal and even a sign of respect.

    I’ve recenly read that for Tibetans it is a tradition for grandparents to kiss little children on the lips and tell them “Eat my tongue”.

    “Eat My Tongue” “The Tibetan Phrase ‘Che Le Sa’”

    In Tibetan culture, it is common to see the old grandparents not only give a pop kiss to the small children, but also give a small candy or piece of food to children from their mouths – directly mouth to mouth.

    This may not be the norm of your culture, but this is commonly done. After the elder gives a pop kiss and a candy, since there is nothing left in their mouth, nothing left to give, they will say the phrase “Ok, now ‘eat my tongue” (not ‘suck,’ as His Holiness misspoke due to his less proficient English).
    The Tibetan phrase is “Che le sa”. They say that as in “I‘ve given you all my love and the candy so that’s it-all that’s left to do is eat my tongue.” And it is a playful thing that the children know. This is not really done in the Lhasa region (capital of Tibet) so much, but it is more common in the Amdo region (where HH is from). However, it is definitely a Tibetan custom.”

    This is why mixing cultures in one pot is not always a good idea.

    The Vice World News reports:

    The viral video showing the Dalai Lama asking a kid to “suck” his tongue—and the subsequent public outrage—has led to hundreds of Tibetans to come out and tell the world: It’s not what it sounds like.

    Over the weekend, an edited video of a Feb. 28 interaction between the 87-year-old spiritual leader and an Indian boy went viral, leaving many of the 6.7 million Tibetans across the world in distress and shock over the way their language and culture were misinterpreted.

    Tibetans told VICE World News that the meaning of this common expression used to tease and teach children is completely lost in cultural interpretation and its English translation. The correct phrase in Tibetan for this joke is “Che le sa”, which roughly translates to “Eat my tongue.”

    Tsering Kyi, a U.S.-based Tibetan journalist, told VICE World News that in Tibetan culture sticking out the tongue is a “sign of respect or agreement” which goes back to the legend around a cruel 9th century king, Lang Dharma, who had a black tongue.

    “Since then, people have shown their tongue as a way of saying that they are not like Lang Dharma,” she said.

    “It’s a sign of blessing,” she added. “When a kid wants to hug an elderly man, the old man complies, and then gives a kiss as a grandfather or a father would, and plays with the kid.”

    Kaysang, who goes by one name and is a Tibetan feminist educator in India, told VICE World News that “suck my tongue” in Tibetan is also a game for the elders to deter cheeky kids from pestering them.

    “The word ‘suck’ in the Tibetan language is ‘jhip’, and this is not a word that is sexualised in our culture,” she said.

    Kaysang works on the prevention of child sexual abuse in the Tibetan and Himalayan communities and said that it’s “distressing” to see an innocent expression in their culture being equated with act of pedophilia.

    At a press conference on Thursday in Delhi, Penpa Tsering, a political leader of the exiled Tibetan government, said their investigations showed “pro-Chinese sources” being involved in making the video go viral. “The political angle of this incident cannot be ignored,” he said.
    https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg5854/tibetans-explain-what-suck-my-tongue-means-dalai-lama-viral-video

    Indeed, the Global Times belonging to China is beside itself with rage at this video and seeing that some Westerners explain it by Tibetan culture accuse them of double standards. But the more enraged they are the clearer it becomes that it is China who is behind this scandal and their motivation is not moral but purely political. This Global Times article abounds in clichés like “the Dalai clique”, “the mythical spiritual leader title”, etc.:

    “The Dalai Lama is a separatist leader and has used his influence to instigate terrorist events in China, breaking real peace and stability in China’s Xizang Autonomous Region.

    The fundamental purpose of all the activities undertaken by the Dalai clique is to seek to split the motherland, rather than what it has claimed to be for the “well-being of the Tibetan people”.

    Although the Dalai Lama and his clique often change their tactics, their real political intention has never changed. In essence, the Dalai clique is nothing more than a separatist political group that has long been engaged in secessionist and destructive activities, harming China and the interests of Chinese people.” https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202304/1289092.shtml

    Tibet is a very specific place and has a very specific culture. It is lying at extremely high altitudes, is barren and bleak, and only a small amount of land can be cultivated there owing to the lack of water. Plots of land are in terraces and Tibetan farmers have to completely dig them out to remove the large rocks. Tibetan shepherds graze cattle in the areas too high for agriculture and accompany the animals on a daily basis. Traditionally, until 1950s, one brother in a family worked on the land, the second went away to herd the cattle and the third worked for “the lord” (aristocracy) for a year.

    In these circumstances another strange tradition appeared in Tibet – one woman married the older brother together with all his male siblings. Tibetan women lived with one brother at a time while the others were away fighting, herding, trading or spending time in a monastery. The oldest brother is generally regarded as the father of the children, who refer to all the brother-husbands as father. The custom is believed to have evolved to prevent the break-up of the family’s scarce plots of land.

    “When I asked Dorje why he decided to marry with his two brothers rather than take his own wife, he thought for a moment, then said it prevented the division of his family’s farm (and animals) and thus facilitated all of them achieving a higher standard of living.
    And when I later asked Dorje’s bride whether it wasn’t difficult for her to cope with three brothers as husbands. she laughed and echoed the rationale of avoiding fragmentation of the family and land, adding that she expected to be better off economically, since she would have three husbands working for her and her children.”
    [see POLYANDRY (MARRIAGE TO MULTIPLE HUSBANDS) IN TIBET]

    I bet the above tradition will also sound extremely strange and abnormal to those belonging to the European civilization (same as the Muslim tradition of one man having multiple wives), but this is what cultural differences are all about. And whether we like it or not, we cannot judge their lives by European standards and vice versa.

    In short, I don’t think that the Dalai Lama had any bad intentions and the fact that he did it in public tells me that he didn’t understand that people of a different civilization would regard it as child abuse. For old Tibetans it is a tradition and the only thing he has to apologize for is that he insulted the eyes of Europeans.

    Strangely, it does remind me of Michael Jackson – he also didn’t understand why his idea of giving his bed to others as “the most loving thing one could do” was not supported by those who were not raised in a crammed home where several people slept in one bed and thought it to be a norm.

    For Michael Jackson a separate bed was a luxury, so giving his bed to someone else was a gesture of generosity and top hospitality. Let me remind everyone that Michael never “invited” any children into his bed as the folklore has it – they occupied it themselves while he routinely slept on the floor or on a couch in the bathroom as his personal maid Gale Goforth said in her testimony (see the posts about her).

    In my opinion both MJ and the Dalai Lama are the illustrations how other people’s deeds and intentions are misinterpreted by those who don’t want to look any deeper – beyond the surface of things, and jump at conclusions resulting from stereotyped perceptions of good and evil. These people are usually predisposed to virtue signalling and are quick to teach others to be “morally correct”, though they may be far from perfect themselves.

    This situation with the Dalai Lama tells us how even an old and wise spiritual leader who lives in a rather closed world of his, may underestimate the effect his actions may produce on those who don’t understand the specific cultural tradition they come from.

    Michael Jackson, a strict Jenovah Witness, also lived in a kind of a shell since his early childhood, and underestimated the effect his sincerity would produce on people. So in a way it is even a comfort to find MJ and the Dalai Lama to be in one company.

    Both are innocent and both are gravely misunderstood. The Dalai Lama has never been the subject of my research, so it is more of a feeling, but as to Michael Jackson we have tons of proof of his innocence.

    Like

  26. Tarkan permalink
    April 13, 2023 4:46 am

    @Helena

    Thanks for your replies. Yep, once you put Vincent to the challenge he doesn’t respond. Several times a fan has posted direct quotes from him where Vincent praised Michael and iirc this was said by him after he now claims he knew about a book. Dude is full of it.

    Detractors have been busy this week comparing Michael to the Dalai Lama, unbelievable. They are desperate and grasping at straws. Yes the video was disgusting, I hate it, but it has nothing to do with Michael. But they went on to post a picture of the two together, oh wow, shocking, the two once met.

    And then there’s this…

    Some people see malice in anything. I see a human being who is so pure, so innocent and carefree here. So what if the little girl isn’t returning it, neither does she look scared in any way, let alone uncomfortable. It just shows that these detractors will try to find something bad in anything.

    Like

  27. April 12, 2023 1:27 am

    Oh, forgot to mention, the reason I suspect a connection between Rolling Stone and Leaving Neverland is more than just their recent anti-MJ content, it’s also the fact that they’ve been such a favorable platform for the likes of Dan Reed. Of course, Rolling Stone isn’t the only one (e.g., the Guardian) that’s been like this, but they’re particularly associated with the music industry. Also, the forces behind the scene might not be American.

    Like

  28. April 12, 2023 1:17 am

    @Helena You’re right. The questions you asked are the questions we ALL need to be asking. There’s a reason we haven’t heard the names of the people behind Leaving Neverland. This, to me, points to what you’re saying: evidence of a conspiracy. There’s also a potential connection between them and Rolling Stone. That recent ranking (#86) on their greatest singers/artists list was no coincidence. They intended to send a coded message. The question is, who has the motive to do this? Every personal acquaintance MJ ever had should be considered a potential suspect. In addition, anyone else who could possibly benefit, like a Harvey Weinstein type, or someone who may believe Michael was guilty and has a personal mission against perceived child abusers, should also be suspected.

    Like

  29. April 11, 2023 4:23 pm

    I’m starting to think it wasn’t actual fans but someone connected to Gutierrez? – William King

    It could be Rodney Allen – he was friends with Gutierrez and could probably visit Neverland. In his scam with a Canadian boy who was to make false allegations about MJ but failed, Allen coached the boy so well that the latter drew a map of the ranch and recognized some of its employees on the photos. Even if Rodney Allen received this information from someone else, it means that the scam was very elaborate and very well thought out.
    Rodney Allen was also obviously connected to the DA Tom Sneddon who wrote prior to the 2005 trial that “this time” Rodney Allen will not be involved. This way Gutierrez, Allen, Tom Sneddon and Diane Dimond are all in one pack.

    But besides Rodney Allen there could be many others who could present those books to MJ.

    I know Diane Diamond and that con artist Michael Jacobshagen were running around with a copy after Leaving Neverland.

    Oh, so Diane Dimond is at again? As to Michael Jacobshagen, he met Michael on one occasion only (in the presence of other fans), when Michael was on tour in Germany, so even in theory he could not know that a certain book had been planted at Neverland decades ago. Someone simply gave this book to him which he then paraded in some photos pretending to be a “victim”.

    This photo is actually fantastic evidence of an ongoing scam against Michael Jackson.
    Firstly, Michael Jacobshagen is a con artist notorious for swindling people out of their money and he wouldn’t do anything for free – so he was certainly paid for the photo.

    Secondly, this means that someone is ready to part with their money just to frame Michael Jackson. Only imagine it – MJ is no longer alive, but for someone it is top important that he should go down into history not as an innocent man, and these people spare no money on distorting his image on a never-ending basis.

    Thirdly, the more fabrications are made, the better it is. It does not even matter that the lies can be easily disproved – it is the sheer quantity of fabrications which matters.

    And this brings us to a question – Who is so intent on vilifying Jackson and why is distorting his image and smearing his good name so important to these people?

    Thinking that it is solely in the interests of tabloids will be an underestimation.

    Like

  30. April 11, 2023 3:01 pm

    “It wouldn’t have anything to do with ordering videos.” – William King

    That’s the point – the more you think of it, the clearer it becomes that different parts of the story don’t jibe with each other. So it’s no use racking your brains over it – the story is a fabrication.

    Like

  31. April 10, 2023 9:09 pm

    Never mind, I doubt it. It wouldn’t have anything to do with ordering videos.

    Like

  32. April 10, 2023 9:04 pm

    Now that I think of it, is it possible he’s referring to one of the books originally given to MJ by supposed fans (I’m starting to think it wasn’t actual fans but someone connected to Gutierrez)? I know Diane Diamond and that con artist Michael Jacobshagen were running around with a copy after Leaving Neverland. It wasn’t the original but I think I recalled a TV show (featuring Diane Diamond) where a picture of a young man was circled with a black marker. Again, this wasn’t the original book found at Neverland (as I understand it); they simply did this to emphasize certain aspects of the image.

    Like

  33. April 10, 2023 6:38 pm

    “He’s full of crap.” – William King

    Exactly!

    … with all the talk about the biopic, the “docuseries” Re-Righting HIStory is actually FAR more important. I don’t expect it to end all debate, but it could go a very long way to countering the propaganda out there. And if you put the biopic with the “docuseries”, you have a very powerful combination!

    I forgot to tell you that you are absolutely right here. The anti-Jackson propaganda works only because there is too much of it and too long. If it is countered by a steady torrent of truth about Michael – docu-series, interviews, blog posts, tweets – everything will do – it will at least even out the chances. The truth does not have the right to be silent.

    There are so many interviews to be taken – Michael’s maid Gale Goforth, or his driver Gary, for example – these are the people who worked for Michael for decades and knew him inside out, so let them talk.

    Like

  34. April 10, 2023 6:10 pm

    My mistake, I thought I saw someone else mention the “BDSM” books, not Gynoids. (I know others have done this in order to try and somehow incriminate him, and they routinely leave out MJ’s comments on Madonna and her gifts.) I’ve been perusing several MJ blogs lately so I could have gotten things mixed up. To be clear, I wasn’t referring to Gynoids. I don’t consider that pornographic material.

    As for Vincent, you’re correct. There was no abuse. But my point was that, if what he is saying were true it’d make him a very sick person to try to profit off of it by selling a book. A person who really had evidence of MJ’s guilt and who “chooses the children” (paraphrasing his words) wouldn’t be telling people to wait and read his book. He’s full of crap.

    Like

  35. April 10, 2023 5:37 pm

    But what’s really messed up is he’s allegedly (if you believe him) trying to profit off of abuse. How sick is that? – William King

    Well, for a start, there was no abuse. If Vincent Amen had known anything he would have become the star witness for the prosecution, however they didn’t even want to call him at the 2005 trial and plainly said so.

    Amen went to the DA Tom Sneddon of his own free will to get immunity for himself and spilled to him every secret he knew – after all, his freedom was at stake! But none of his stories suited Sneddon’s agenda, and if none of it was sensational at that time, it’s no use pretending that it has suddenly become sensational now.

    So yes, Vincent Amen is trying to sell his stories at a profit, but he is profiting off of LIES and not of something real. All these people were inspired by the “Leaving Neverland” fiction film and are now running a race of who will tell a bigger lie about Jackson.

    D I S G U S T I N G

    Like

  36. April 10, 2023 5:15 pm

    “regarding the BDSM books found at Neverland. I think a lot of them were actually books he got from Madonna.” – William King

    But what makes you think that MJ had BDSM books? Even a “lot of them”? As far as I know the policeman who reviewed every scarp of paper from the Neverland ranch mentioned it just once, in connection with Gynoids and in a very vague way saying that “the book appeared to have a fetish (bondage, sadomasochism, piercings, etc.) related theme”.

    Having said that I do not rule out that Madonna or anyone else could present him with books of their choice. And Michael – what’s the right word for it? – was somewhat of a pack rat who couldn’t throw away other people’s gifts or letters from his fans. Michael’s guards said that when he couldn’t sleep he went through a pile of the fans’ letters and their presents, and if he especially liked some of them he called these people back.

    As a result Neverland was full of cartons with books, some of which were only waiting to be opened. I’ve looked up “Gynoids” once again and see that the Japanese artist Hajime Sorayama had several of them – Gynoids (1993), Gynoids Genetically Manipulated (2000), Gynoids Reborn (2000), etc.
    The “Gynoids: Genetically Manipulated” has a different cover – here it is:

    The inside pictures are not available, but readers call it an “unusual and extremely erotic art book full of images of beautiful women “robots” in various sensual positions. The artist is extremely talented without being obscene.”

    Hajime Sorayama’s official website gives the idea what the images are like: http://sorayama.jp

    What jumped out to me is that in 1999 – just before the publication of that book – Sorayama collaborated with Sony and this is how MJ could learn about this Japanese artist. Sorayama created for Sony a series of robotic dogs:

    His collaboration with Sony in 1999 produced the iconic AIBO pet robot dog, which has since been enshrined in the permanent collections of the MoMA and the Smithsonian Institution.

    Sorayama worked for various Hollywood films, created the cover for Aerosmith’s album, worked with George Lucas and is now in collaboration with Dior:

    …the work he did for the films Brain Dead (1992), Timecop (1994), and Space Trucker (1995); design of trading cards, limited-edition prints, CD-ROMs, and the cover art for Aerosmith’s 2001 album Just Push Play; art exhibitions; and the initial design for what would eventually become Sony’s dog-like robotic “pet”, the AIBO. Production models of Sony AIBO went to market on May 11, 1999.

    In the 2000s, Sorayama’s first-generation AIBO design (the robotics of which were developed by Sony’s Toshitada Doi) received the Grand Prize of Best Design award, the highest design award conferred by Japan. AIBO has since been included in the permanent collections of the Museum of Modern Art (MOMA) and the Smithsonian Institution.

    In 2013 and 2014, Sorayama was engaged by Star Wars filmmaker George Lucas to create a spread of Twi’lek and droid fantasy Star Wars pin-ups for a tribute art book entitled Star Wars Art Concept.

    ….Pre-Fall 2019 collection for Dior: The focal point of the show – a huge Hajime Sorayama statue at the centre of the stage — is also referenced in the collection itself. The Japanese artist mixed his signature style, with robot women and dinosaurs, with Dior’s cherry blossom motif and monogram pattern.

    What I mean by all these quotes is that Saroyama was and still is in collaboration with the world famous designers, film-makers, art collectors, museums, etc. – and no one finds fault with him, while the only book of robotic women which MJ possessed is suddenly seen as something “inappropriate”? Inappropriate for whom? For nuns and monks?

    This is beyond my understanding. People can’t be serious about it.

    Like

  37. April 10, 2023 2:43 pm

    @Helena If he really has the evidence he claims he should have no problems answering those questions. There’s no reason for him to wait to publish a book if he’s truly sincere. But what’s really messed up is he’s allegedly (if you believe him) trying to profit off of abuse. How sick is that?

    Like

  38. April 10, 2023 2:36 pm

    Excellent article, Helena. This is why, with all the talk about the biopic, the “docuseries” Re-Righting HIStory is actually FAR more important. I don’t expect it to end all debate, but it could go a very long way to countering the propaganda out there. And if you put the biopic with the “docuseries”, you have a very powerful combination! After that, I think the legal battles with HBO and Wade will be key.

    Also, regarding the BDSM books found at Neverland. I think a lot of them were actually books he got from Madonna. If you recall, MJ spoke about receiving “spanky books” in his interviews with Shmuley Boteach. He could’ve started buying them himself after being exposed to them as well.

    Like

  39. April 7, 2023 6:11 pm

    The way he wrote one of his older tweets about how if you look closely you can see black sharpy circled areas around boys MJ wanted to see/order videos on. Wtf is he even talking about? Look closely at what? Even if such material actually existed, how is he going to prove MJ used the sharpy? For all we know he did it or someone else. -Tarkan

    You are talking about these tweets:

    Joe Tacopina ESQ, has Michael Jackson’s Child Pornography Magazine. The magazine with images of naked little boys that has circles (black sharpie circled) around the videos to be ordered. There was a cover up by Joe Tacopina ESQ. The full story will be in a future book.

    If you look close there are naked little boys.. look at the videos Michael Jackson selected to watch by circling the choice videos.

    All of the above is absurd and the best way to handle it is the way you did – just ask questions.

    Let him or anyone who believes this craziness answer the basic questions:
    1. What is the title of the “Child Pornography Magazine”? The year of its publication? Where can we see it?
    2. How can he prove that it wasn’t him but MJ who made those circles with a black sharpie?
    3. So the videos with naked boys were advertised in that magazine? What videos?

    Many more questions may be asked of him, but for a start, this will be enough.

    Amen may answer that you have to buy his book where he will answer these questions. But you need to know whether the book is worth the money he is asking for it. So answers first and if not – goodbye baby.

    Like

  40. April 7, 2023 5:37 pm

    Not sure what he was trying with his latest tweet, about two men, one a abuser and then MJ. – Tarkan

    He put Michael’s name beside the name of a real abuser to create a mental connection between the two, a kind of a learned association that creates a relationship between the stimulus and response. All these propagandists use conditioning and their audience is like Pavlov’s dogs.

    Psychologists explain it: Classical conditioning is learning through association and was first demonstrated by Ivan Pavlov. Pavlov showed that dogs could be conditioned to salivate at the sound of a bell if that sound was repeatedly presented at the same time that they were given food. The dogs had learnt to associate the bell with the food, and salivation was triggered by the sound of the bell.

    In the same way propagandists will first describe the crimes of some horrible abuser, and then just mention the name of MJ (sometimes even as a joke), and after several repetitions Pavlov’s dogs – I mean their readers and viewers – will give a correct response and will “salivate”. So the next time the media mentions anyone with ped-lia inclinations, the first reaction of Pavlov’s dogs will be “oh, he is like MJ!”. A totally scientific approach.

    I have a feeling Brooke Shields has been offered something too. In her new documentary she says MJ all kinds of weird things, how he was a creep obsessing on her and what not. Even dares to say she wish she knew the truth about his innocence.

    Brooke Shields is probably a victim of the “Leaving Neverland” fake and is certainly one of those Pavlov’s dogs. The effect of this fantasy film should not be underestimated – its goal was to break the viewers’ hearts through strong emotions which shut down the mind and do not allow them to think and ask even for some basic proof. Dan Reed and Co. created a make-believe world in which viewers believe in the same way they believe Avatar – without thinking.

    So Brooke Shields made a documentary of her own? I haven’t seen it but can bet that she was asked questions like “Do you have evidence that he was innocent?” The answer would be “No, I haven’t”. “So you don’t rule out that he could abuse?” “I don’t know. I was not present when it happened”. Aha, so she doesn’t have evidence that he was innocent! This is the core point around which such documentaries are built. Though those who believe the accusations were not present there either.

    This is a mockery of the US justice system. Propagandists interview each and everyone who knew MJ and ask the same questions. And people generally cannot prove that he was innocent while the other side needs “hard facts” and not just remonstrations.

    This way MJ’s “guilt” is presumed as an axiom thus overturning the main principle of justice of “Innocent until proven guilty”. And this despite the fact that Michael Jackson was PROVEN INNOCENT just several years before his death.

    This “Guilty until proven innocent” atmosphere is so rampant now that even Nancy Peloci who held one of the top posts in the country for so many years claims now that Trump should prove his innocence in court. “Weird, I thought the standard was ‘innocent until proven guilty,'” “Welcome to Pelosi’s warped America…” tweeted one of the commentators.

    The minds of people are indeed warped if they presume MJ guilt even without any facts proving it and consider him guilty even after he was proven innocent. This is a total disgrace.

    Like

  41. Tarkan permalink
    April 7, 2023 3:11 am

    @Helena

    Yeah,once it’s about MJ everything he does is weird and it’s abnormal. I have a feeling Brooke Shields has been offered something too. In her new documentary she says MJ all kinds of weird things, how he was a creep obsessing on her and what not. Even dares to say she wish she knew the truth about his innocence. Unbelievable. She was at his funeral, cried and clearly was on his side, but now after LN she wishes she knew the truth, sigh. This man really only had a few real friends.

    As for Amen, yeah he’s a really strange person. The way he wrote one of his older tweets about how if you look closely you can see black sharpy circled areas around boys MJ wanted to see/order videos on. Wtf is he even talking about? Look closely at what? He’s assuming everyone can see it.

    Even if such material actually existed, how is he going to prove MJ used the sharpy? For all we know he did it or someone else.

    To avoid confusion, I mean these two tweets. So very specific and detailed, he’s gonna need to actually show something and not just make up a story about it. He claims he has hard evidence, really, really don’t think so.

    The timing is certainly very curious with the biopic now confirmed to be coming out. It’s just unbelievable that people just won’t give up, but the fact he keeps signaling Dimond does say a lot. His tweets have surprisingly low amounts of replies, zero by detractors.

    Not sure what he was trying with his latest tweet, about two men, one a abuser and then MJ. And then yeah, showing a picture of MJ with Frank Cascio, it reeks of desperation.

    I will keep informing you on new tweets that could be handy for a future piece about him, perhaps.

    Like

  42. April 6, 2023 6:57 pm

    “I should have known better that all these descriptions would be grossly exeggerated. But that is definitely how they hook in truly gullible folks and then like you said, they don’t bother to do research.” – Tarkan

    They really hook in gullible folks this way – by alleging horrible things about perfectly innocent publications. The whole list of items “seized” at Neverland is built on this principle.

    Whatever you see on the 48-page list there, even books like “Cronos” which simply shows people aging, is interpreted by the police as “Based on my training, this type of material can be used as part of a grooming process”. Following this principle, they could claim the same even about the Bible.

    So I perfectly understand why you also thought that the Gynoids were something pretty extreme based on their description that “the book appeared to have a fetish (bondage, sadomasochism, piercings, etc.) related theme”. To me, it is a sign that the list of those items should be revisited and elaborated on once again.

    But what amazes me is that those who are horrified by perfectly normal books in MJ’s house consider it okay that Gwyneth Paltrow, for example, sells a “kit as a beginner’s guide to BDSM” at her site Goop. CNN just calls it an unconventional gift and explains that “for those not in the know, BDSM stands for bondage, dominance, sadism and masochism”. https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/16/us/gwyneth-paltrow-goop-bdsm-gift-guide-trnd/index.html

    When I first wrote about it people shrugged their shoulders and wrote something to the effect that “she has the right to do it”. But if this is the case, Michael Jackson all the more so had the right to have all the books and magazines enumerated in that police list! Especially nudist periodicals like “Health and Sunshine” and “American Sunbather”!

    The hypocrisy of those who frown at those periodicals but are just slightly ironic about Paltrow’s “unconventional” BDSM gifts for Christmas is driving me mad.

    As for the WordPress thingy, I will keep it in mind. But I don’t mind if it ends up in moderation. Or is this a problem for you? I don’t want that.

    It is no problem at all. My note just meant to explain to you and others why you can’t see your comment immediately after posting it in case it has many links 🙂

    Like

  43. April 6, 2023 5:58 pm

    “Another response from Amen. He calls your piece angry rambling and claims he has hard evidence. This guy, man.” Tarkan

    Thank you for keeping me posted. He claims that he has “hard evidence”? And shows a picture of MJ with a “drunk” boy who was recognized by the commentators as the 16-year old Frank Cascio, who was sober at that! Amen allegedly “turned the photo into FBI” and “is now requesting its return from the FBI”.
    Then he rehashes the old story about Gavin Arvizo allegedly given “wine in a soda can on the plane” – despite the whole thing being debunked at the 2005 trial.

    The people who responded to his tweet are great at pointing to the craziness of his claims. Some say that he sounds like a mental sicko and that it is even embarrassing to read his tweets. And Vincent Amen indeed looks like a mentally sick person.

    Initially I also thought so, but no longer now. His strategy is somewhat adequate for today’s circumstances – he may rehash each and every allegation from the 2005 trial and since very few people read the court transcripts they may indeed take his stories for something “new”. This is probably what his book will be all about and he is currently preparing ground for it.

    It seems that the only way to stop people like him from lying and degrading someone (the deceased all the more so, as they cannot answer) is to charge them with a crime of willful and malicious slander and put them behind bars or at least have them fined. The lies can be proven by comparing the things they allege and the documented evidence that contradicts their frivolous stories. The danger of a fine could immediately stop them from capitalizing on their lies.

    In Vincent Amen’s case, I am more than sure that money is involved and this project is not just his own – someone or something is encouraging him to tell lies about MJ. By his nature, he is a coward, and without a formidable force behind his back, he wouldn’t have done it on his own.

    Besides, those who are ready to tell lies about Michael Jackson are offered really big money for these lies – millions of dollars. Please don’t ask me how I came to know it.

    Like

  44. Tarkan permalink
    April 6, 2023 12:47 pm

    Another response from Amen. He calls your piece angry rambling and claims he has hard evidence. This guy, man.

    Like

  45. Tarkan permalink
    April 6, 2023 6:14 am

    @Helena

    Thank you for the response. There is indeed nothing wrong with the Gnoids book at all. It could have been concept art for a sci-fi videogame or movie. I should have known better that all these descriptions would be grossly exeggerated. But that is definitely how they hook in truly gullible folks and then like you said, they don’t bother to do research.

    He posted again today, about Trump and he just couldn’t help himself but mention Michael again too. He said:

    “I would love to see how Joe Tacopina handles President Trump’s statements in his latest rant. It’s hard to deflect on media interviews regarding these statements. Let’s what he comes up with! That’s worse than Michael Jackson’s damage control.”

    I then posted your article about him and in the tweet it directly shows the image of the Arvizos. He responded to me with :

    I don’t get this guy at all. But it’s clear he’s yet another snake, acting as if he’s on the right side, lying about Michael in the process to make him look very bad.

    As for the WordPress thingy, I will keep it in mind. But I don’t mind if it ends up in moderation. Or is this a problem for you? I don’t want that.

    Like

  46. April 4, 2023 5:31 pm

    “Why do I have a feeling something really bad is going to happen this year in regards the child molestation allegations? Like others have said, there seems to be a pattern: 1993, 2003, 2013, 2023? And they seem to coincide with major Michael Jackson projects like Michael Jackson One and Xscape. There’s a new Michael Jackson biopic coming out soon.” – Elyse

    Highly likely, I would say. The more innocent truth is uncovered about Michael, the fiercer is their effort to drag him through the mud. It is clear that those who orchestrated this campaign back in the 1990s are absolutely determined to “refresh” the allegations about MJ time and again and force the new generations of people to remember him as a p-le.

    The biopic will probably (these days I am not sure of anything) portray Michael as the innocent man he was, not to mention his genius, so his detractors will jump out of their skin again to distort his image and cement it in the minds of people in a bad light. They do it again and again, and from our experience we know that every new outbreak of their lies invariably “coincides” with a new MJ album, or a biopic in this case.

    Another marked trend is that those who vilify Michael consistenly work on destroying everyone who is capable of telling the innocent truth about MJ.

    Some are arrested and put into prison for decades (like Pellicano) for the things other private investigators do and are fined at the most, some are financially ruined (like Arnold Klein), the reputation of others is severely damaged through seemingly unrelated issues like the unfinished and overprocessed songs (Frank Cascio and his brother), others are lied about after their death (like Aaron Carter whose “book” was published by someone who Aaron himself later didn’t want to have anything to do with), etc.

    Lots of people who have died since Michael Jackson’s death could have told the truth about Michael but will never be able to.

    And in their absence nasty clowns like Vincent Amen emerge, who will make most absurd allegations and no one will stop them because most people will not even bother to do any research. And they blindly, blindly believe what they are told.

    In the circumstances we have no choice but stand up for Michael – until a new generation comes and takes over from us.

    Like

  47. Elyse permalink
    April 3, 2023 5:34 pm

    Why do I have a feeling something really bad is going to happen this year in regards the child molestation allegations? Like others have said, there seems to be a pattern: 1993, 2003, 2013, 2023? And they seem to coincide with major Michael Jackson projects like Michael Jackson One and Xscape. There’s a new Michael Jackson biopic coming out soon. I’m really afraid there might another accuser or some Leaving Neverland-ish bullshit on the horizon. This clown unfortunately might just be a teaser.

    Like

  48. April 2, 2023 7:28 pm

    “some of this sounds very extreme, especially that Gnoids thing.”

    “Sounds very extreme” – oh, that sounds great. But we shouldn’t go by the way it “sounds” but look at these things with our own eyes. I’ve made a whole series of articles about all those items including this book with the photos of their covers. Here is a post about some, including The Gynoids: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/07/13/porn-found-in-michael-jacksons-home-2/

    The Gynoids
    The Gynoids

    The Gynoids
    The Gynoid

    Isn’t it obvious that if Michael Jackson looked through those photos, he used some of these ideas for creating costumes for his shows???

    The policeman who evaluated this book labelled it as something that “appeared to have a fetish (bondage, Sadomasochism, piercings, etc.) related theme” but you can see with your own eyes how far-fetched, inaccurate and misleading the description is. And the same goes for ALL books and magazines that were found at the Neverland ranch.

    And unless you check it up and see what it is you will be under the impression that this is something “very extreme”. This way you can describe even the icon of madonna and her son as a “woman with a half-bare chest and a kid in full nudity” that will evoke questions like, Why is the kid nude? Why is she touching him? Are they related? and so on. In short, there are a hundred ways to present even the purest things in a most sinister light.

    And here is a post about the nudist periodicals: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/07/16/porn-found-in-michael-jacksons-home/?preview_id=2098&preview_nonce=aa65e4887e&preview=true
    It was written 13 years ago, so I completely forgot that Karen Faye was a nudist herself 🙂 and this is why she presented this collection to MJ.

    You will find the answers to your questions in these posts. If I have a chance I will update this information.

    As to Vincent Amen I will look into this matter again. What a lowlife he is.

    P.S. Remember that if you post too many links in your comment, WordPress will automatically put it into a moderation mode and it will stay there until I notice it.

    Like

  49. Tarkan permalink
    April 2, 2023 10:26 am

    He’s certainly not backing down. Today he’s actually back at it with absolutely bizarre claims.

    If you go through that thread he mentions something about Michael having made black circles around the videos he wanted to watch/order. That he’s keeping it all for his book. Just wtf. He’s implying Michael watched or wanted to watch videos of naked children and I’m like….dude, where the hell are you pulling this nonsense from? So he’s gonna talk about it in his book, no, where is your evidence?

    I honestly have no idea wtf he’s talking about here. Your thoughts on this @Helena?

    I also saw a detractor post a picture of the items seized (apparently) in his bedroom.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/DelermeElodie/status/1642478197613756417?s=20

    Now it’s far from a crime to have such material, but some of this sounds very extreme, especially that Gnoids thing. The bedroom doesn’t sound like the most ideal place, especially so if he was full aware of the many children visited him and apparently he was OK with them even going there when he wasn’t around. How/why wasn’t this stuff locked up at least? I guess it wouldn’t shock me at all if someone took the items (before the allegations started) and put them there. Because there is zero doubt in my mind about his innocence, Chandler, well enough has been said about that, Arvizo was a circus and Wade and James…….B-movie actors. And I cannot imagine Michael, a adult person (with a child’s heart, but not a child, not dumb, not that naive) would leave that highly erotica material just for everyone to easily see, right? The detractor is making it seem that way.

    Also, curious how the picture lists material with naked men on it too, didn’t they solely find heterosexual porn material?

    Last but not least, fantastic work, once again! Learn so much!

    Like

  50. April 2, 2023 5:20 am

    “I had to look up exactly what he did for Michael and why he was around him, just because – as you rightly say – he wasn’t around for long.”

    Dee, this is exactly the problem. No one knows anything about this Vincent Amen and people might think that he was privy to some innermost secrets about MJ, while in reality he was on the periphery and for a very short time too.

    Besides that Amen has a penchant for running to the authorities and the media at first signs of any threat to his well-being and saying things that are expected of him even if they contradict the truth.

    This is a very dangerous combination, so I am afraid that we can hear more wild ramblings from him in the future.

    In a way I understand that he is protecting his family now, but it is utterly disgraceful to do it by telling lies about an innocent person like MJ.

    Like

  51. Dee permalink
    April 1, 2023 11:46 am

    Excellent and thorough piece as always, Helena. I saw Amen’s ramblings on DR’s Twitter the other day, and remembered his name, but had to look up exactly what he did for Michael and why he was around him, just because – as you rightly say – he wasn’t around for long.

    Like

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