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Conrad Murray is found GUILTY. A little bit of justice has been served

November 8, 2011

the best picture ever

Conrad Murray was found GUILTY of involuntary manslaughter. And though he was heavily undercharged, it still gives us a little bit of satisfaction and a feeling that at least some minimal justice has been served.

Michael Jackson trial verdict: guilty Murray led away in handcuffs

As a Los Angeles jury of finds him guilty of the involuntary manslaughter of Michael Jackson, Conrad Murray is led out of court in handcuffs after being remanded in custody

Following a dramatic six-week trial cardiologist Murray, 58, was convicted of a charge of involuntary manslaughter after the jury decided his care of the singer had been criminally negligent.

Members of the Jackson family including his mother Katherine, sister Janet and brother Jermaine, were present as the verdict was delivered in the Los Angeles court.

The case was then adjourned with Conrad Murray led away in handcuffs after being remanded until November 29 when he will return for sentencing.

Murray faces a maximum of four years in prison.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/8875589/Michael-Jackson-trial-verdict-guilty-Murray-led-away-in-handcuffs.html

THE VERDICT

JUDGE MICHAEL PASTOR says:

“The public should be protected. This is a not a crime involving a mistake in judgement. This is a crime where the end result was the death”

I don’t want to spoil the moment but at a press-conference today the Los Angeles District Attorney has said it will be very difficult to have Murray enjailed (please correct me if I am wrong).  Does it mean that he indeed can serve the term at home? I am afraid it does and this may be the reason why Conrad Murray took the verdict so emotionlessly. But let us not spoil the joy of the moment now…

As a summary of the trial here is a great article from the Huffington Post by Tanya Young (posted before the verdict):

MJ Death Trial: This Is It for Conrad Murray

Posted: 11/7/11 10:00 AM ET

A very close friend toured Michael Jackson’s rented mansion with the intention to make a offer on the $38 million dollar home. I asked him to take pictures for me so I could get a better sense of the home in which Michael Jackson would breathe his last breath. I was surprised to see that vestiges of Michael Jackson and his children remain in the house, untouched. Upon seeing Michael Jackson’s handwritten affirmations on his bedroom mirror and reading his children’s message to him on a chalkboard in the kitchen, I was moved beyond words. I could no longer just write these articles as one who is not emotionally affected by this trial. I am angry. I am disgusted with Conrad Murray and his unmitigated gall to waste tax payers money and cause additional pain and anguish to Michael Jackson’s children and family, when he knows that his grossly negligent actions killed The King of Pop: Prince, Paris and Blanket’s daddy.

This is it for the Michael Jackson trial. The evidence is no longer being seen by the public on national television or watched live on countless websites, it is locked in the jury room, with the jurors who will decide the fate of Dr. Conrad Murray. It’s been a six week trial, wherein the prosecution laid out their case over a five week period. The defense used only one week to present evidence in an attempt to prove the innocence of Dr. Conrad Murray. In total, 49 witnesses took the stand.

The defense, led by attorneys Ed Chernoff and J. Michael Flanagan called 16 witnesses. The attorneys were obviously divided as they tried to rebut the prosecution’s overwhelming evidence that Dr. Conrad Murray is guilty of involuntary manslaughter due to gross negligence and the substandard medical care given to Michael Jackson.

It was during the defenses’ presentation that Michael’s true motivations for embarking on the This Is It tour was revealed. Randy Phillips, the company president and chief executive officer of AEG, who first proposed the concert to Jackson, was called by the defense in an effort to bolster their claim that Michael was ridden with anxiety, and would go to the deadly extreme of giving himself a lethal dose of propofol, in a desperate attempt to sleep before final rehearsals. However, Randy’s answers were often in direct contradiction to the defenses’ portrayal of Michael. Phillips testified that Michael was excited about restarting his career with the This Is It tour in London and was committed to its unparalleled success.

Michael left a note on the mirror

The tour had the potential to erase Michael’s estimated $400 million debt and make him very rich again. At the time of his death, AEG was paying for everything in his life including his rented Los Angeles mansion, his personal chef, his entire staff, as well as, the huge production expenses ofThis Is It. Phillips testified that Michael would have to reimburse AEG $30 millions dollars for personal living expenses, but this was not a real concern for the contracted parties due to the sold-out status of the tour. In fact, Mr. Phillips had a very intimate conversation with Michael wherein Michael cried. Phillips said, “The primary reason was that he wanted to finally settle down and get a really, really good home for the kids and his family so they weren’t in his words living like vagabonds.”

To my surprise, the defense’s strongest evidence presented was in the form of character witnesses. The former patients of Dr. Murray, all senior citizens, whom he had not cared for in over a decade, attested to his skill as a doctor and his willingness to care for patients who were elderly and/or indigent. The witnesses testified that Dr. Murray was the most attentive and caring doctor they ever had. They told of how Dr. Murray’s skill, as a cardiologist, altered the course of their lives in a positive way and in some cases, saved their lives. It was during the character witnesses’ testaments to Dr. Murray’s humane characteristics and great skill that Murray began to cry. He was touched – it appeared. However, I found it ironic that he was never moved to tears when the naked, dead body of Michael Jackson was displayed on the autopsy gurney. He remained stoic when testimony of Michael’s daughter screaming and crying by the side of their dead father’s body was given. He was unfazed when Michael’s intoxicated, slurring voice was heard detailing his loneliness, his pain as a child and his life-long struggle to fit in. Dr. Murray’s tears were sincere but they only seem to fall when the focal point of the story was Conrad Murray.

Throughout the 22 days of the testimony, Dr. Murray appeared somber, vulnerable and despondent as he sat between his two high power attorneys. However, after watching the trial everyday, listening closely to the testimony, reading transcripts, attending court proceedings, speaking to Murray’s supporters and most importantly, looking into his eyes from a very close distance, I believe with great certainty that Dr. Murray is an arrogant, self-absorbed, narcissistic man.

The greatest support for my unwavering perception of Conrad Murray’s selfish character, were his actions when he entered Michael Jackson’s bedroom while speaking on the phone with one of his girlfriends. When Conrad Murray realized that Michael Jackson was dead, he went into “Me First” mode. I have lived through the same type of narcissistic “cover-up” behavior first hand in another high profile case in which I was intimately involved. I am repulsed by Conrad Murray’s actions. Similar to the case in which I was involved, Dr. Murray also “pretended” to give CPR to Michael Jackson when the head of security, Alberto Alverez walked into the room. He also put on a charade in the presence of Michael Jackson’s assistant when he gave Michael Jackson mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. We now know, from trial testimony, that Michael had already been dead for up to 20 minutes when Alverez and Williams entered the bedroom. We also know, according to Murray’s police statement, that he immediately attempted to give Michael CPR when he entered into the room and found him non-responsive. Therefore, his act in front of Alverez and Williams was a disgusting, thought-out sham in an attempt to cover-up his killing of Michael Jackson. What type of man gives CPR and mouth-to-mouth to a knowingly dead victim, just for show: A narcissistic, selfish, sick individual like Conrad Murray.

A long-time friend and supporter of Conrad Murray, who spoke with me outside of the courthouse on more that one occasion, shared a glimpse of the real Conrad Murray with me. He stated, “Conrad is arrogant and nobody can tell him anything. He is my friend but blaming Michael for killing himself is crazy.” In light of all that I’ve seen and heard, I completely believe This Is It Director, Kenny Ortega’s testimony detailing his conversation with Murray following a rehearsal in which everyone saw that Micheal was “out of it”. Ortega testified, “He (Murray) said I should stop trying to be an amateur doctor and psychologist and be the director and leave Michael’s health to him.”

As the indisputable evidence showed, Conrad Murray is also a liar. He lied to the pharmacist, he lied to each of his girlfriends, he lied to AEG, he lied to the insurance company, he lied to the paramedics, he lied to the UCLA doctors, he lied to Ms. Katherine Jackson at the hospital, he lied to the police during his two hour recorded statement. But he didn’t lie on the witness stand because he exercised his Fifth Amendment constitutional right not to take the stand; how convenient? It would have been suicidal for Conrad Murray to take the stand in his own defense. As brilliant as he thinks he is, he would not be able to withstand the barrage of questions regarding his outright lies. Having listened to every word of testimony and offered commentary for KTLA in Los Angeles and Headline News, I have a very clear understanding as to what really happened on June 25, 2009. Yet, the only question that I have yet to get an answer is “why did Conrad Murray record Michael Jackson in a drug induced state?”. What was Conrad Murray’s self-serving ulterior motive?

Conrad Murray has lived a reckless life for many years: at least 7 children with 5 women; a trial and eventual acquittal for domestic violence, two child support sentences that almost landed him in jail, dating numerous young girlfriends simultaneously, medical disciplinary measures levied against him; and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt. When the trial began, I had an open mind regarding Dr. Conrad Murray and his guilt or innocence. Now, six weeks later and after listening to 49 witnesses, I know that Conrad Murray is guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter and probably other lesser and more serious charges. Conrad Murray’s greed, arrogance and reckless character is the direct cause as to why Michael Jackson is not with us today, but more importantly, why Michael Jackson’s children, Prince, Paris and Blanket, no longer have their daddy.

Conrad Murray chose to spend the day before closing arguments at a very public beach with his girlfriend and his 7th child. It’s a luxury Michael Jackson nor his children will ever have again. I believe Conrad Murray was trying to garner sympathy from the jury before deliberations. Unfortunately, I’ve been where the defense is and I know all the tricks. Conrad won’t fool anyone. This is it for him and his career as a doctor. It’s curtains for Conrad Murray.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tanya-young-williams/michael-jackson-trial-dr-conrad-murray_b_1076587.html?ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

Jackson fans, family see justice in doctor’s guilty verdict

By Martin Kasindorf, Special for USA TODAY
Nov 7, 2011

LOS ANGELES – The conviction Monday of Conrad Murray in the death of Michael Jackson ended a lengthy trial that exposed not only the extreme measures Jackson used to get to sleep but also the sad final days of the star as he worked desperately to make a comeback.

Murray, 58, a cardiologist, showed no emotion as the court clerk read a verdict of guilty on one count of involuntary manslaughter in the medication-overdose death, concluding the rare prosecution of a physician after a patient died. Murray’s mother also had no visible reaction. A shriek came from La Toya Jackson, the singer’s sister.

Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor denied a motion by Murray’s chief counsel, Ed Chernoff, to let the doctor remain free on his existing $75,000 bail until sentencing Nov. 29. “Dr. Murray’s reckless conduct in this case poses a demonstrable risk to the safety of the public,” Pastor said.

Murray was handcuffed behind his back and led into custody through a side door. As he left, he nodded and murmured a few words to his mother and five friends.

Chernoff said later that the verdict would be appealed. Sentencing possibilities range from probation to four years behind bars. Because of a recent change in state law, Murray probably will serve his time, if any, in a county jail.

The conviction means Murray will automatically have his California medical license suspended, Los Angeles County District Attorney Steve Cooley said at a news conference after the brief court session. Cooley said he hoped the other states where Murray is licensed to practice medicine — Nevada, Texas and Hawaii — will do the same.

Filing out of court, Jackson family members hugged prosecutor David Walgren and co-prosecutor Deborah Brazil. Matriarch Katherine Jackson kissed Brazil on the cheek.
“Justice!” the entertainer’s sister Rebbie and brother Jermaine shouted as they left the courthouse. Jermaine Jackson pumped his left fist and gave the V-for-victory sign.

On the street, fans cheered and car horns were honked.

The jury of seven men and five women reached its decision at midmorning on the second day of deliberations, after spending eight hours and 34 minutes considering the evidence. Pastor submitted the case to the jury late Thursday after 22 days of testimony from 49 witnesses.

The 340 exhibits of evidence included a poignant recording Murray had made on his cellphone. A heavily sedated Jackson is heard voicing his hopes that a series of concerts in London would establish him as the “greatest entertainer in the world” and would enable him to finance a children’s hospital.

The verdict held Murray responsible for Jackson’s death on June 25, 2009, from an overdose of the powerful surgical anesthetic propofol, aggravated by effects of the sedative lorazepam.

The jury accepted Walgren’s arguments that Murray’s conduct went beyond malpractice, causing death through criminal negligence and “egregious, unethical and unconscionable” violations of medical standards.Walgren said Murray acted criminally in using propofol to treat Jackson’s insomnia. The setting in Jackson’s upstairs bedroom was inappropriate and lacked the required monitoring and resuscitation equipment, Walgren said.

Prosecution witnesses testified that Murray delayed for 20 minutes in asking a security guard to call 911, performed CPR improperly, tried to hide evidence and failed to tell rescue personnel he had administered propofol to Jackson.

Murray, who did not take the stand, told police two days after Jackson died that he had administered propofol intravenously at Jackson’s request nightly for two months. At the time, Jackson was preparing for a comeback — 50 concerts under the title “This Is It” — after 10 years off the stage.

Anesthesiologist Steven Shafer, an expert on propofol, testified for the prosecution that Jackson probably died from a three-hour intravenous drip of propofol, running continuously through the moment of death.

Paul White, the defense’s anesthesiology expert, said Jackson self-injected the fatal propofol and swallowed a deadly quantity of lorazepam pills while Murray was away from the bedside. Walgren said throughout the trial that Murray still would be culpable if that happened because he provided the medications in a dangerous setting and “abandoned” Jackson, leaving him with access to potent drugs.

Murray told police he left Jackson for two minutes to use the bathroom, returning to find his patient not breathing. Cellphone records showed Murray was phoning and e-mailing for 45 minutes around the time Jackson died. Among people listed in the cellphone records were three girlfriends.

Only a few doctors in the USA, including suicide assister Jack Kevorkian, have been charged with homicide. Cooley, asked whether he had filed the case just because the alleged victim was Michael Jackson, said no. “This one,” he said of the Jackson case, “takes on a viral, international dimension because of the celebrity status of the victim, but that just comes with the territory.”

Two years and four months after Jackson’s death, the jury decided that the death was a crime.

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-11-04/michael-jackson-doctor-trial-verdict/51113244/1?source=twitter

110 Comments leave one →
  1. February 2, 2013 3:20 pm

    Here is another piece of information as I am catching up with the news. Now Conrad Murray is playing victim again. Apparently a year and three months in jail is too much for our sensitive killer daisy.

    Laura Messina who has sent the news is absolutely right in her comment:

    I’ve always known you are hugely better than me… you were taught to love and forgive anyone, which you did have in your heart. But Michael, tell me how I could feel any simpathy for a man who intoxicated you for months and recorded you in your most vulnerable moments to blackmail you and let you DIE without asking for help in time and didn’t tell anything but LIES to anyone who was trying to save your life and has never shown the least remorse.

    You are in costant DEATH because of this murderer who keeps complaining for anything ignoring how generous that scam of “justice” system has been with him. The constant pain is what he DESERVES. He didn’t have any mercy upon you, he can’t expect mercy from me.

    http://www.tmz.com/2013/01/23/dr-conrad-murray-crying-voicemail-constant-pain-phone-cant-sleep-jail/5/#comments-anchor

    And here is Thomas Mesereau’s reaction to it:

    After just a few seconds, Tom turned it off with a disgusted look on his face, saying, “I can’t listen to any more of this. This man is despicable. This man has never taken responsibility for what he did to Michael Jackson. He’s always been a blamer. He blames Michael Jackson for everything. He wants everyone to feel sorry for his situation. He caused the death of one of the greatest artists in world history , WHO ALSO HAPPENS TO BE ONE OF THE GREATEST HUMANITARIAN OF THE WORLD HISTORY, a kind, decent, wonderful, nice person. He caused his death and he’s never taken responsibility for it. He’s DESPICABLE! I can’t listen to all his statement. I don’t believe anything he says. I saw that statement he made before the verdict, he was blaming everything on Michael Jackson in my opinion, he takes no responsibility for anything he’s done, so I don’t believe a word that comes out of him.

    Famed MJ Attorney Tom Mesereau is DISGUSTED By Conrad Murray Voicemail

    Thomas Mesereau’s reaction has been recorded by TMZ:
    http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_gw5hrhvy/

    TMZ is studying public reaction to a call to “free Murray”. Here are the poll results (what are the 26% thinking about?):
    Free Murray
    No 74%
    Yes 26%
    Total Votes: 64,924

    Like

  2. nannorris permalink
    April 6, 2012 3:45 am

    OMG..to think that Murray would subject MJ and his family to all that extra CPR when he knew he was dead to further cover his own butt ..Makes me sick.
    He is a sociopath..
    .I wish they could charge him with obstruction of justice or something..

    Like

  3. kaarin22 permalink
    April 6, 2012 2:49 am

    Another peculiarity of Murrays behaviour on 6/25 22012 was his absolute refusal to put his name on Michael Jackson´s death certificate.In extreme situations people are prone to primitive,magical thinking.Like a superstition not having his name on that piece of paper.

    Like

  4. March 12, 2012 2:57 pm

    Kaarin22 expressed a crucially important thought, so I had to repeat it in a proper post:

    “Dr. Shafer demonstrated without doubt that Michael had been given at least 2063.mgs or more if the propofol content in the bottle remining+the urine discarded are taken into account.
    It does not surprise mr that Murray delayed the 911 call. His CPR was a sham and having had training in cardiology he knew that.
    Dying does not stop all biological functions at once. So once at the ER he changed the tune and practically forced the ER physicians to extraordinary measures to revive the heart, hoping that any residual propofol be flushed out. If by a miracle they had succeeded Michael would have been a vegetable depending on oxygenation by intubation.”

    Kaarin, you cannot imagine how important your note is. Propofol evaporates from the body easily, but only as long as the heart is beating and blood is circulating in the body.

    Murray wanted to keep that process active through CPR – this way the heart would still erratically beat and push the blood circulating.

    Several doctors were surprised why Murray was making CPR at all (Michael needed oxygen, while his heart was okay) and why it was done in such an unprofessional way (on the bed).

    The answer is – because Murray didn’t want to revive him. He just wanted propofol to leave the system!

    So what everyone thought to be his clumsy way of reviving Michael was actually something totally different – Murray knew that Michael had been dead for some time, but he needed the heart to beat artificially to make propofol leave the body! Even in case the brain was already dead.

    This is why he insisted on all those resuscitation methods when they arrived at the hospital! It was absolutely useless at that stage, but he needed it to hide the traces of propofol!

    Considering the fact that some propofol left Michael’s system through all these artificial methods, we can safely assume that Michael received that night much more than the 2063 mgs, the traces of which were actually found.

    Murray is a cold-blooded Liar and Murderer.

    Like

  5. February 9, 2012 9:07 pm

    Now here is another very interesting piece which was not discussed at Conrad Murray’s trial.

    It is a report about how Murray’s employees emptied his storage facilities on the day Michael died. Prosecutor David Walgren probably didn’t mention it or summon this witness out of shame for his colleagues who didn’t search Murray’s premises the same day. Indeed they went to Murray only a month later!

    Here is the story from MJEOL site written at the time when the police finally got interested in Murray, or a month after Michael’s death.

    From the time frame given it seems that the employees were emptying the storehouse while Michael was still lying in bed and even before the paramedics arrived! So this was whom Murray was calling!

    And if they ARRIVED at 11:22am it means that he had called them much earlier as they still had to get there! And this means that Michael died much earlier than Murray said he did. Just as we always suspected it…

    27 JULY 2009
    If all that weren’t bad enough, verified reports that Murray had employees go to a storage unit and remove boxes of stuff on the day Jackson died have surfaced. This storage unit was later the subject of a police search a few days ago.

    The general manager of that storage facility, Sue Lyon, gave an interview saying that Murray rented the 10×15 foot storage unit back in April. She says they came at 11:22 am (PST). The 911 call was reportedly placed at 12:21 pm (PST). And Murray claims he found Jackson about 30 minutes before that time, which means he found Jackson at approximately 11:51am if he was telling the truth.

    However, recent reports claim Jackson may have died hours before paramedics were finally called which would put his death before the time someone calls these women and tells them to remove items from that storage unit.

    Lyon said the two women claimed they were managers of Murray. Of the women taking the boxes out of the storage unit on June 25, Lyon said, “They were very casual about it. I asked them if they were moving out, and they said, no, they were just moving some things. They’re nice women.”

    She says it took them about half an hour to move whatever it is they came to get, and though the women came in a Mercedes, the boxes were loaded into another older vehicle.

    One hell of a “coincidence”, huh? I don’t believe in coincidences that huge.

    The problem is that any evidence may have been long gone by the time authorities finally raided Murray’s Houston office and that storage unit. It’s been a month since Jackson passed. I would hate to think police waited too late to take the idea seriously that maybe Jackson didn’t die solely by his own actions. The situation stunk from day one.

    Please go to the site to watch the video of FOX news who reported it:
    http://site2.mjeol.com/mjeol-bullet/suspicions-grow-over-jackson-doc-conrad-murray-%E2%80%93-bullet-336.html#comment-191

    Like

  6. February 9, 2012 11:46 am

    I dont know if this document is on here somewhere but I guess flanagan is going back to court eh end of the month, unless this is old news and it has been canceled or anything. http://www.scribd.com/doc/80158211/Notice-of-Motion-and-Motion-for-Release-Pending-Appeal?secret_password=1no6ie13r6g5nvfay39a

    Nan, I left a comment about it in another post though I was so angry that I should have probably made a post about it. Here it is:

    Flanagan made a motion to release Conrad Murray on a nominal bail (as he has no money) since he “presents no threat to the society” .

    What does it matter whether he presents a threat or not? He committed a crime and was punished for it, so isn’t he to serve at least some term to answer for it?

    They say he was a complete saint before Michael Jackson and those were just “unusual circumstances”. The conviction was the result of his “desire to assist” MJ in a difficult situation! And he did assist his patient by never paying attention to him and hoping to get a mere $150,000 a month for all his “goodwill”!

    Conrad Murray “never intended to injure anyone”! OMG, if he had INTENDED to injure MJ it would NOT have been an involuntary manslaughter – it would have been an intentional murder punished much more severely!

    Not only will he serve only 2 years out of 4, but the poor guy does not want to serve ANY time in a solitary cell! Two months are just enough for him – he prefers to live with his girlfriend and son!

    If the motion is granted and it goes on like that why don’t the US authorities let ALL convicts serve nominal sentences?

    Let’s say someone poisoned someone through criminal negligence, but since he behaved very well before that and it was the “first time”, let us forbid him to use poison in the future and let him go home patting him on his shoulder and telling him to behave himself.

    What of it if the person he poisoned is dead? It was the first time he did it! And he also has 7 children to support! And a harem of women too! The person needs work! How can we be so inhuman and leave the poor children without support of their father?

    Cruel, impossibly cruel society! A deplorable state of morals it is if the society does not set the criminal free immediately upon him committing a crime!

    The cameras in the courtroom were also terribly in the way for our good guy – they allowed people to see the truth while all they were supposed to know was the convict’s documentary about himself expressing his invaluable point of view on his victim.

    Didn’t you know that the victim is always to blame? Not all victims of course, but Michael Jackson for sure? Didn’t you know that whatever Michael Jackson did it was always his fault and no one else’s?

    Who said that Michael Jackson could be killed? How dare you? Didn’t Conrad Murray explain to you that it was “just a mistake”?

    And he even said that he was sorry! To whom did he say that? Let me see… to two policemen two days after the victim’s death! I didn’t notice it when reading the papers but he says he said sorry to someone, so who am I not to believe him?

    And look, this saintly guy is also in dire straits and cannot pay for the bail. Shouldn’t we be merciful and compassionate to the one who meant only well? And let him go on a nominal bail? Especially since he fell a victim to this horrible Michael Jackson who dared die in his hands?

    Freedom to the saintly Conrad Murray!
    Freedom to the man who did a service to the society!
    Freedom to all innocent guys whose victims had the cheek to maliciously die in those innocent hands!

    Like

  7. nan permalink
    February 9, 2012 6:29 am

    I dont know if this document is on here somewhere but I guess flanagan is going back to court eh end of the month, unless this is old news and it has been canceled or anything..
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/80158211/Notice-of-Motion-and-Motion-for-Release-Pending-Appeal?secret_password=1no6ie13r6g5nvfay39a

    Like

  8. January 14, 2012 2:36 pm

    Judge Pastor was also a positive surprise.

    Like

  9. Suzy permalink
    January 14, 2012 11:12 am

    That’s great. They deserve it.

    Like

  10. sanemjfan permalink
    January 14, 2012 1:49 am

    Walgren and Brazil are being honored for their prosecutorial excellence next week!

    http://psbar.wordpress.com/2012/01/13/la-county-prosecutors-to-receive-national-award/

    Next Tuesday, my friends and colleagues at the Center for Lawful Access and Abuse Deterrence (CLAAD, @claad_coalition) will recognize Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorneys David Walgren and Deborah Brazil for their excellence in the prosecution of Dr. Conrad Murray. CLAAD is a national coalition dedicated to preventing prescription drug diversion, misuse, and abuse.

    CLAAD will commend the LA County prosecutors for their national leadership in implementing the policy recommendations set forth in the National Prescription Drug Abuse Prevention Strategy (of which I am a primary author). The National Strategy urges prosecutors to exercise moderation and to analyze facts in prescription drug cases from a medical perspective. Some 30 non-profit organizations have endorsed this year’s National Strategy.

    CLAAD will issue a news release on Tuesday, Jan. 17. If you are interested in obtaining information about the award before then, please e-mail info[at]claad[dot]org.

    Like

  11. sanemjfan permalink
    December 20, 2011 3:33 am

    Here is part 1 of 3 of an interview with Dr. Shafer! Parts 2 and 3 are coming later this week. There are a total of 86 questions.

    http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/120606-MJJC-Exclusive-Q-amp-A-with-Dr.-Steve-Shafer-Read-his-answers-Part-1

    Like

  12. December 18, 2011 12:35 pm

    Murray’s request for a public defender.

    http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/murray-request-for-public-defender.pdf

    Like

  13. sanemjfan permalink
    November 17, 2011 6:14 am

    Here is an interview with Frank Cascio about his new book. It’s a shame that most of it was dominated with talk about his use of drugs……………

    http://gma.yahoo.com/video/music-26594262/michael-jackson-s-personal-assistant-releases-book-27282181.html

    Like

  14. November 16, 2011 1:24 am

    Now of course we have Elizabeth Taylor’s angry tweet to Arnold Klein (following those “gay” reports) and Arnold Klein’s answer to her.

    Okay, Lyz Taylor had the misfortune to read the media and believe some of their stories. This is what she wrote to Klein:

    “Dr. Arnie Klein declared on May 2 that he did not betray Michael Jackson by saying publicly that he had a homosexual relationship with someone in Arnie’s office.”
    “It seems he supplies not only women (Debbie Rowe), but men too … how convenient.”

    And this is what Klein replied to her:
    @DameElizabeth “Dearest Elizabeth Michael CHOSE whom he loved; I only SUPPLIED medical care. May God bless you and Michael. Your friend Arnie”
    14 May 10 via web http://twitter.com/#!/awkmd/status/13994043427

    Personally I didn’t notice that Klein was saying in his reply that Michael was “gay”. He didn’t even say whom Michael chose. He just picked at Liz’s choice of the word “supplied” (which is the usual bickering between two people who are terribly annoyed with each other).

    The media naturally explained what was the right way to understand the above. For some reason the exact words of Elizabeth Taylor are in quotes while Klein’s further comments are only described with no link to them (while I would like to see his exact words):

    Elizabeth Taylor Defends Michael Jackson, Slams Dr. Arnold Klein For Gay Affair Story
    May 14th, 2010 6:54 AM by Free Britney
    Elizabeth Taylor, who like Dr. Arnold Klein was very close to Michael Jackson, and who like MJ was a patient of Klein, is slamming the doctor for his recent blabbing.
    Specifically, about MJ’s alleged gay affair with Jason Pfeiffer.
    Not only did Klein back up his former office manager’s account of an affair with Jackson, he flat out said Michael was gay, then said he didn’t betray Jackson’s trust.
    An irate Taylor Twittered this yesterday, lambasting the dermatologist and noting the connection between Klein and other person with romantic ties to Jackson:
    “Dr. Arnie Klein declared on May 2 that he did not betray Michael Jackson by saying publicly that he had a homosexual relationship with someone in Arnie’s office.”
    “It seems he supplies not only women (Debbie Rowe), but men too … how convenient.”
    Not finished, Taylor added this stinger: “Just what we want in our doctors. And then to say he did not betray Michael’s confidence. No wonder he has death threats.”
    “I thought doctors, like priests took an oath of confidentiality. May God have mercy on his soul.”
    Rough, to be sure but the legendary actress certainly has a point!
    Klein’s defense of the comment was that it was made not to slander Michael, but show was not a pedophile. For what it’s worth, Joe Jackson and Michael’s bodyguards have also come forward to deny the gay affair story.
    No comment from Team Arnie or from anyone in the federal witness protection program he may or may not have enlisted in during the past week.
    Read more celebrity gossip at: http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/stars/arnold-klein/page-2.html#ixzz1dcdKdOpH

    * * *
    Still looking for the proof that “he flat out said that Michael was gay” ….

    Like

  15. November 16, 2011 12:39 am

    There is another media mystery concerning reports of Klein’s crimes. This mystery concerns the DATE when the “gay” story was told.

    1) The very first attempt was made on August 21, 2009 by The Telegraph which reprinted a story from a certain Australian magazine “Woman’s day”. For some reason the story was not very well promoted by the press and died out for a whole year:

    “Clinic worker claims to have had homosexual love affair with Michael Jackson”
    A clinic worker named Jason Pfeiffer has claimed he and Michael Jackson were “soulmates” who were involved in a homosexual love affair.

    Mr Pfeiffer claims he and Jackson had been in regular contact until he died, aged 50, following a cardiac arrest in June. Photo: REUTERS
    8:25AM BST 21 Aug 2009Comment
    Mr Pfeiffer, 35, who works at the offices of Jackson’s dermatologist Dr Arnold Klein, alleges he and the Thriller singer first got to know each other over the phone.
    According to him, the relationship escalated when Jackson asked him for a lift home and it soon developed into a “short romantic love story that ended in tragedy”.
    Speaking to Australian magazine Woman’s Day, he said: “I guess our first ‘date’ was in my car. We went for a drive and were talking and having fun, but Michael had his minders who were ‘nosy’ as Michael put it.
    “We had to make sure we were not caught, and although the date was short as I had to take him home before anyone noticed, we had a great time.
    “I thought nobody else knew, but have since discovered that others did surmise the truth.”
    Mr Pfeiffer claims he and Jackson had been in regular contact until he died, aged 50, following a cardiac arrest in June.
    He said: “I’ve lost my soulmate. It’s very hard to describe the loss I feel – but there is something that’s empty in my heart.”
    Mr Pfeiffer also claims that Jackson, who had been married twice, “completely changed” in the last two weeks of his life.
    He said: “He was overly religious, overly dramatic, exhausting and exhausted.
    “He was saying goodbyes the week before passing. Everyone was creeped out by it.
    “Michael got very retrospective in the last few weeks, he was talking about God and the Mayan calendar and the year 2012 – which is when the Mayan calendar ends.”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/6065010/Clinic-worker-claims-to-have-had-homosexual-love-affair-with-Michael-Jackson.html

    2) The second attempt was much more successful and was made by Extra almost a year later – at the end of April 2010:

    King of Pop’s Secret Lover? ‘I Was Michael Jackson’s Boyfriend’
    April 29, 2010 | Michael Jackson
    Jason Pfeiffer, a former dermatologist’s assistant and current CEO of a medical company, is going public in an explosive new interview, claiming he was Michael Jackson’s boyfriend right up until the King of Pop died.
    Pfeiffer tells “Extra” in a new interview airing Thursday, April 29, that he had a very “passionate and sexual” relationship with the King of Pop. He also plays a voicemail message which he claims Michael Jackson left for him. The interview was conducted by special correspondent Alicia Jacobs.

    “We definitely hit it off the first time we met,” Pfeiffer says, claiming he and Jackson met in 2008 at the office of Jackson’s famed dermatologist, Dr. Arnold Klein, a longtime friend of Jackson’s and rumored to be the biological father of the singer’s two older children, Prince and Paris.

    Dr. Klein tells “Extra” he personally witnessed Jackson and Pfeiffer together when he once walked in on them, Jackson allegedly shirtless. “When you see two people looking at each other you know what’s happening. I was just very happy for both of them.”

    Pfeiffer says he and Jackson instantly connected because of their childhoods. Pfeiffer was smitten. He tells “Extra,” “We were just sitting there and we both started to cry and I got up and went over to him and said it’s going to be okay Michael… We hugged. And it was kind of then that the hug was a little bit more.” He goes on to say, “It wasn’t until a few months later that it was obvious that Michael had feelings for me as well.” Their friendship soon blossomed into something more, according to Pfeiffer.

    Jackson emphatically denied throughout his life that he was gay. “I just assumed that he was probably bisexual,” Pfeiffer says, claiming their relationship lasted until the day Jackson died. “I know we loved each other, I know he told me that all the time. I believe that he was probably my soulmate.”

    So why come forward now?

    “Setting the record straight and telling the truth, as opposed to hiding in some house in the middle of nowhere… I think he would have approved of that, yes.”
    http://extratv.warnerbros.com/2010/04/king_of_pops_secret_lover_i_was_michael_jacksons_boyfriend.php#comments

    I’ve specially listened to and watched Jason Pfeiffer. It seemed to me that he could hardly scrape any arguments to prove his point of view. Actually he didn’t say anything definite. Yes, he said Michael always said he loved him. But Michael said “I love you” to everyone… The rest of his recorded interview is similarly laughable. I am emphasizing the word “recorded” because this is the only thing I can really believe in.

    However what is top interesting is that though we have 1.34min of Pfeiffer talking to Extra we do not have even a second of Klein talking to the same source.

    Klein is not even sitting next to Pfeiffer and is nowhere to be seen. All we know about Klein was what was told about him by Extra.

    The only other “proof” I have been able to find of Klein allegedly confirming Pfeiffer’s story is Harvey Levin’s words who said he spoke with Klein on the phone and retold his (or someone else’s) words to the viewers live.

    This was of course a very effective gesture – but still only a gesture. I prefer to see or hear the real thing.

    * * *
    Still looking for the proof of Klein’s crimes…

    Like

  16. November 15, 2011 9:01 pm

    Speaking about Klein there is another mystery which surrounds the rumor of him saying he was the kids’ father.

    1) This “news” was broken by one source only – it is the US Weekly. All the rest only reproduced the story. When I tried to find this article published a couple of days after Michael’s death I found that it is no longer there. All articles are in place except this one.

    Correction: If US Magazine and US Weekly are the same then this is probably the source of the rumor dated June 30, 2009 – http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/dermatologist-is-father-of-michael-jacksons-kids-2009306. In addition to the lie told by an “insider” it also says that Klein himself will not make any statements on the allegations because of adherence to HIPAA regulations:

    “In a statement, Dr. Klein’s attorney Richard L. Charnley tells Entertainment Tonight: “Dr. Klein is aware of media reports connecting him to Michael Jackson. Because of patient confidentiality Dr. Klein will make no statement on any reports or allegations. Out of respect for his patients and adherence to federal HIPAA regulations, Dr. Klein asks that the media not contact his patients nor interfere with their medical treatments. Like millions of Michael’s fans around the world, Dr. Klein is saddened by Michael’s death and extends his condolences to Michael’s family.”

    2) From the way it was reproduced by other papers we can more or less see that the news was presented as fact and came not from Klein but from an “insider” in Klein’s office or home:

    Arnold Klein: Biological Father of Michael Jackson’s Children
    June 30th, 2009 1:22 PM by Free Britney
    Michael Jackson used to be married to Debbie Rowe, but neither were the biological parents of the singer’s first two children, Michael Jr., 12, and Paris, 11.
    Their father is Arnold Klein, Jackson’s L.A.-based dermatologist and Rowe’s former boss, multiple sources confirm to celebrity gossip magazine Us Weekly.
    “He is the dad,” says an insider of Arnold Klein, who has not commented. “He and Debbie signed an agreement saying they would never reveal the truth.”
    News that Michael Jackson is not the biological father of any of his kids surfaced earlier today. Now we’ve learned he never legally adopted them either.”
    http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/06/arnold-klein-biological-father-of-michael-jackson-children/

    3) On July 8, 2009 (a week after the “news” was broken by US Weekly) Klein denied this fact on Good Morning, America. He said “he didn’t want to feed this insanity that was going around”:

    By SARAH NETTER
    July 8, 2009
    “The Beverly Hills dermatologist who was by Michael Jackson’s side for years sparked a new round of questions after offering a vague denial of reports that he may have fathered the pop icon’s two oldest children.
    “To the best of my knowledge, I am not the father of these children,” Dr. Arnold Klein told ABC News’ Diane Sawyer in a “Good Morning America” exclusive. “I can’t answer it in any other way. I don’t want to feed any of this insanity that is going around.”
    US Weekly reported in the days after Jackson’s death that Klein, not Jackson, is the biological father of Prince Michael I, now 12, and Paris-Michael Katherine, 11, Jackson’s children with ex-wife Debbie Rowe.
    “I will tell you one thing: These are brilliant children and I want them in no way to be harmed. These are wonderful, fabulous children who he loved deeply.”
    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/MichaelJackson/story?id=8030165&page=1#.TsAbiPQvDGY

    4) In November 2009 in an interview with Harvey Levin the only thing he said was that he had given his sperm to a sperm bank (and didn’t know what happened to it later).

    “What’s wrong with giving your sperm to the bank?” he asked. Levin said: “Nothing”.

    5) In the July 2009 interview with Larry King he also spoke about donating sperm but did not connect it to Michael and maintained this point adamantly. He said he was willing to undergo a DNA test (if someone wanted it).

    This article says that no other source except US Weekly confirmed this “news”. The US Weekly also said that they were reporting this “exclusively”:

    “Last night, Arnold Klein took a similar route on Larry King Live, though he did elaborate a little bit, admitting that he donated sperm at one point – to a sperm bank, and not to Michael Jackson directly, he maintains adamantly.
    As far as he knows, he is not the father of Jackson’s children. End of story. The dermatologist said he’s willing to submit to a DNA test to establish paternity.
    Us Weekly has stated as fact that Klein is the biological father of Prince and Paris Jackson. No other celebrity news publication has confirmed this.
    http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/stars/arnold-klein/page-3.html#ixzz1dcq33Ua4

    6) However even these denials did not stop the same US Weekly and all the other media to simply refer to Klein as the kids’ father again and again – months and even years later:

    Michael Jackson’s Doctor to Be Charged With Manslaughter
    CELEBRITY NEWS AUGUST 19, 2009 AT 1:40PM BY USWEEKLY STAFF
    Fox reports that Jackson’s longtime dermatologist (and father of his two eldest children), Dr. Arnold Klein, will also be charged for medical malpractice. As investigators continue to build their case against him, he will not be arrested for at least another two weeks, according to the report
    http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/report-michael-jacksons-doctor-to-be-charged-with-manslaughter-2009198

    * * *
    Still looking for the truth….

    Like

  17. November 15, 2011 8:20 pm

    “Klein called in to TMZ live last week, to break the news, claiming Jason was “the love of [Michael’s] life”. It wasn’t just something TMZ made up. Klein CALLED IN to support Pfeiffer’s story! There were also videos of him on TMZ talking about it and “confirming” it. (I don’t know if those videos still can be found, but maybe somebody can help me out.)”

    Suzy, I will help you out. I am slowly collecting information about Klein (my mobile internet does not allow it quicker). This Klein thing is somewhat intriguing me, only I cannot do much due to my present technical difficulties. So please check up whether my findings are correct.

    1) I’ve found the videos of Klein allegedly calling TMZ on 04/30/2010. There are three parts of TMZ Live (questions and answers).

    2) This article says that it was in that particular broadcast that Klein called Harvey Levin. It also retells what he allegedly said to him: http://www.tmz.com/2010/05/01/arnie-klein-michael-jackson-jason-pfeiffer-gay-boyfriend/#.TsKMdz223Ga

    5/2/2010 4:08 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
    Arnie Klein: I Did Not Betray Michael Jackson
    Dr. Arnold Klein — Michael Jackson’s long-time best friend and physician — tells TMZ he did not betray Michael Jackson by claiming to TMZ that MJ had an affair with Klein’s office manager … and he’s freaked out that he’s getting “a lot of horrible death threats.”
    Klein and office manager Jason Pfeiffer were featured on “Extra” a few days ago — during the interview Pfeiffer claimed to have had a romantic relationship with MJ.
    Klein called in during TMZ Live last Friday, and said Michael was gay and Jason was “the love of his life.”
    On Saturday, Klein told TMZ he does not believe he betrayed Jackson because Jackson never tried to hide his sexuality. We called Klein out on his statement, because it seems to us MJ went to extreme lengths to keep his sexuality a secret.
    Klein told us Saturday, “Was he gay? Yes.” He then went on to say his declaration is meant to shoot down rumors that Jackson was a pedophile. And, Klein says, as far as he knows, Jason’s alleged two-month relationship is the only gay relationship Jackson ever had.
    Pfeiffer says, “Michael was not ashamed of his sexuality.”
    Klein and Pfeiffer say they have received numerous “horrible death threats” since their statements became widely public this week. They have both been in touch with the FBI and now say they have bodyguards.

    If we follow the link provided in the article we will get to part 1 of the TMZ video. I’ve managed to watch it despite my poor Internet but over there Harvey talks only about Lindey Logan.

    3) To check whether indeed Klein said anything like that to Harvey Levin I found the remaining two parts on YouTube.

    These I could not watch properly as the sound was not catching up with the video. But what I managed to hear is that Harvey Levin says he is receiving a call from Klein and says he is retelling Klein’s words to the viewers. Then he retells that person’s words.

    Evidently the technical facilities at TMZ are so poor that it was impossible to put the person on the other end on a loudspeaker.

    The last time I heard of this method was in a comedy film where some con artists said they were calling Brigit Bardot on the issue of animal protection. But over there they at least had the decency to let the listeners hear the pre-recorded “Qui” which was supposedly pronounced by the actress in agreement to their questions. In Harvey Levin’s telephone interview of Klein I did not hear even that.

    But I may be wrong because I could not hear it properly. Please check it up in case I’ve missed something:

    Part 1:

    part 2:

    part 3:

    My mobile Internet is very slow and the sound is not coming together with the video, but what I managed to see of it does NOT show Klein calling TMZ. What I could hear (I think it was in part 3) is that someone called into the studio, Harvey took a cell phone and said he would reproduce the words said to him by the caller. He said it was Klein. But we do not hear Klein talking.

    It could be anybody.

    Like

  18. Chris permalink
    November 14, 2011 2:46 am

    The only thing I would add to it is everyone always talks about the individuals when they die and how they threw away there life etc.
    Yet an individual is an individual. Unique from any other.

    The industry stays the same the people are always different which none grew up to come to that end. Does that tell us more about the individuals or the industry?

    Like

  19. November 14, 2011 1:16 am

    chris, that article has such an important message, thanks so much for posting it.

    “This column space isn’t large enough to fit all the names of entertainers who died directly—or indirectly—due to drugs or suicide. Still here are a few names to consider: Dinah Washington, Charlie Parker, Billie Holliday, Phyllis Hyman, Dorothy Dandridge, Sonny Clark, Frankie Lymon, Donny Hathaway, David Ruffin, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, John Belushi, Ol’ Dirty Bastard, Kurt Cobain, Dee Ramone, Janis Joplin, Judy Garland, Elvis Presley, Lenny Bruce, Freddie Prinze, Inger Stevens, Chris Farley, River Phoenix, Heath Ledger—and more recently Amy Winehouse.

    To make matters worse, child stars, like Michael, face an added danger of being damaged by the pitfalls of the entertainment industry. The travails of Todd Bridges, Gary Coleman, Danny Bonaduce and Lindsay Lohan as well as the untimely deaths of Dana Plato, Corey Haim, Scotty Beckett and Bobby Driscoll serve as a cautionary tale of this reality.

    Everyone wants a piece of those who’re said to be “successful.” In Michael’s case, he was eaten alive by the music industry, the paparazzi press—and by members of his own family. “

    Like

  20. Chris permalink
    November 14, 2011 1:01 am

    Not sure exactly where to put this but it is something that has been on my mind since the trial ended.
    I see a lot of young kids want to be famous, and fear a lot of other names could be added to this list in the article.

    http://blackstarnews.com/news/135/ARTICLE/7782/2011-11-13.html

    Like

  21. November 13, 2011 8:45 pm

    This post:Conrad Murray has been found Guilty. A little bit of justice…
    Now ofcourse murray was not the only person causing harm, but it was CONRAD MURRAY who KILLED Michael.And now his docomentary is making the rounds in many countries around the world.Even after it was scientifically proven that Michael died of a dose of 2062.5 mgs of propofol infused into him on 6/25 2009.Lets concentrate on this liar and his despicable ,selfserving story.We can get to the other villains later, and not branch out in every direction now.

    Like

  22. Truth Prevail permalink
    November 13, 2011 8:43 pm

    there are some people or haters who still trying to say Michael was guilty of his death just because he was taking propofol to get some sleep. the fact is michael being on propofol did NOT! kill him but the fact who administered the propofol put too much in him and thats what killed him so if murray was monitoring his patient just as he was supposed to and give him just the right amount of propofol not over the limit michael woulduve been here probaly finished the concerts and be Blossoming with his kids right now. But the thing is people/haters somehow just want to put the blame on michael or have of it when in fact the court has proven MJ is not to blame but murray is indeed GUILTY with his reckless behavior as a DR.

    Like

  23. Suzy permalink
    November 13, 2011 9:40 am

    @ Helena

    “And your desire to portray me as someone who makes everyone shut up here has been noted.”

    I don’t have a “desire” to portray you in any way. You portray yourself by the way you react to people’s opinions.

    As you could see from the posts below most MJ fans have the opinoion that Klein is not credible. This doesn’t mean anyone is trying to discredit your post about AEG. People simply make that conclusion from Klein’s history, nothing else.

    Like

  24. November 13, 2011 7:41 am

    I think Klein looked very guilty with those statements.

    Like

  25. Teva permalink
    November 13, 2011 6:24 am

    “I don’t think Klein is Michael enemy. I think he’s an idiot, amoral, a fame-whore who is in debt and looking to make money; I think he was a God-awful enabler to Michael and has since gone on to exploit his name. I also think he will not take responsibility for his actions but instead, like Murray, wants to paint himself as someone who has done no wrong and was a savior in Michael’s life.

    His interview right when the Jury were deliberating and his statement that Michael was addicted to propofol was a strategic, manipulative play to absolve himself of guilt lest he find himself facing a jury, too, sometime in the future.” – Ameera

    So nice I had to say it twice. 🙂

    Like

  26. November 13, 2011 5:17 am

    As Friedman said, like father like son

    Conrad Murray’s Bad Doctoring: Like Father, Like Son

    09/29/11 11:00pmRoger Friedman0

    I wrote this on July 23, 2009 in this column. But it seemed appropriate to recall in light of the current trial.

    Michael Jackson’s Dr. Conrad Murray, now under investigation by the LAPD for possible manslaughter in Michael’s death: medical malfeasance may be in his genes.

    Dr. Murray’s biological father, whom he met at age 25, was the late Dr. Rawle Andrews of Houston, Tex. Dr. Andrews died in 2001, but was a respected Houston physician.

    However: Dr. Rawle Andrews medical license came under review and severely limited’according to the Texas Medical Board’from 1994 to 1999.

    Dr. Andrews was found to have prescribed “controlled substances and substances with addictive potential to [two patients, names reduced to initials] for extended periods of time without adequate indication.”

    The board particularly cited four “dangerous” drugs in their order:

    Stadol’a powerful pain reliever used for migraines after surgery’connected to Demerol

    Nubain’another powerful pain reliever, delivered through IV, equivalent to morphine and used as a supplement to anesthesia;

    Talwin’ yet another monster pain reliever/narcotic used before surgery and anesthesia

    Phenergan’a more moderate pain killer but also an antihistamine used for itching and swelling.

    If any of these turn up in Michael Jackson’s toxicology report, the parallels may be more than just a coincidence. What probably killed Jackson was an overdose or misuse of anesthesia-based drug Diprivan. Certainly, Dr. Murray knew that his father had had disciplinary action taken against him for prescribing and administering similar drugs.

    The citation reads: “Agreed Order entered restricting license for 5 years for prescribing or administering a drug or treatment that is non therapeutic in nature or non therapeutic in the manner the drug or treatment is administered or prescribed.”

    Both Dr. Andrews and his son, Dr. Murray, are graduates of Nashville’s Meharry Medical College.

    http://www.showbiz411.com/2011/09/29/conrad-murrays-bad-doctoring-like-father-like-son

    Like

  27. November 13, 2011 4:34 am

    @ VindicateMJ “It might mean it, if this person makes me speak about Klein exactly on the day he called my post about AEG the truth.”

    I can assure you, I don’t have the power to “make” anyone talk about anything!

    @ VindicateMJ “I wasn’t speaking about him at all and wasn’t imposing my opinions on anyone. At that time we had a totally different topic to worry about – it was Murray’s documentary.”

    Yes, you were. Lynette brought him up, then you defended him and said you liked him
    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/conrad-murray-is-found-guilty-a-little-bit-of-justice-has-been-served/#comment-16439

    @ VindicateMJ – “However in the midst of it all it was Klein who was suddenly forced on me. And two hours later I find out that that very day he mentioned me on Twitter twice. He said that my post about AEG is the truth and that he had also been trying to say it.”

    “Is it because someone wants to say that if “crazy Klein” praises my post about AEG, then my post is “crazy” too? Or that I am “in cahoots’ with Klein? Or that Klein is an enemy to Michael, so “vindicatemj” is?”

    _______________________

    Ok, that to me is jumping to leaps of conclusions. No one can “force” a conversation on someone; we all get to choose what we want to talk about.

    As I said above, the first two posts in this thread from me addressed Dr. Drew and JVM, and the whole question of whether Michael was an addict, why I believe people have such a problem admitting that he struggled with addiction and nothing about Klein.

    I don’t think Klein is Michael enemy. I think he’s an idiot, amoral, a fame-whore who is in debt and looking to make money; I think he was a God-awful enabler to Michael and has since gone on to exploit his name. I also think he will not take responsibility for his actions but instead, like Murray, wants to paint himself as someone who has done no wrong and was a savior in Michael’s life.

    His interview right when the Jury were deliberating and his statement that Michael was addicted to propofol was a strategic, manipulative play to absolve himself of guilt lest he find himself facing a jury, too, sometime in the future.

    Like

  28. November 13, 2011 4:19 am

    @ Lynette “I for one applaud the fact that Michael was aware enough of the problem to get the help he needed because that isnot easy and is nothing to be ashamed of it should be praised.”
    ___________________________
    I so agree w/ this statement. I’m not sure where this whole conspiracy theory of how and why Dr. Klein criticisms were made is coming from. The only reason I first commented was to address the whole “addict” conversation. Klein was brought up by someone else actually and my comments about him were ancillary to my whole point about addiction not being a shameful issue and the only reason people balk at the label re. MJ is because they find it shameful.

    I was actually surprised to hear ANYONE defend Klein because I think his actions are pretty indefensible.

    Like

  29. November 13, 2011 1:58 am

    “I will give you one source as an example on the Pfeiffer story: http://entertainment.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978211415

    Suzy, I will study all the sources as thoroughly as it is only possible – as this is the only standard I adhere to.

    “Just because someone has a different opinion than yours it doesn’t mean that person has underhanded motives.”

    It might mean it, if this person makes me speak about Klein exactly on the day he called my post about AEG the truth.

    Surprised that there was so much talk about Klein in this blog I even wondered (when answering my correspondent who spoke for the first time here) why Klein suddenly became so important? I wasn’t speaking about him at all and wasn’t imposing my opinions on anyone. At that time we had a totally different topic to worry about – it was Murray’s documentary.

    However in the midst of it all it was Klein who was suddenly forced on me. And two hours later I find out that that very day he mentioned me on Twitter twice. He said that my post about AEG is the truth and that he had also been trying to say it.

    After that I am beginning to guess why Klein, why in this blog and why at this exact moment.

    Is it because someone wants to say that if “crazy Klein” praises my post about AEG, then my post is “crazy” too? Or that I am “in cahoots’ with Klein? Or that Klein is an enemy to Michael, so “vindicatemj” is?

    In a totally haters’ environment we exist in, when even Charles Thomson was declared an enemy to Michael, I do not rule out anything at all.

    There was a time when a horde of haters tried to proclaim me an advocate of ped-lia – only it didn’t work because I had made an extraordinary number of posts exposing it.

    Now it can very well be another move against me and my intentions to talk about AEG and examine their contract further (if it is just an extraordinary coincidence I apologize to my correspondent for the suspicion).

    But if my guess is right, let us just consider that I’ve been warned.

    What I need to say in this respect is that by making that contract AEG Live have done their own best to undermine themselves. Now that those papers are public there is no stopping it. So if it is not me someone else will. I just need to do my part of the job – analyze the contract, because this is a subject I know and because Michael probably needs this of me.

    And as regards Klein plain common sense demands now that I distance myself from him and say that I was totally wrong and am covering my head with ashes with shame. I probably will, but only after I study all the materials about Klein and try to get to the truth of the matter. Not earlier.

    Suzy, I don’t expect you to agree with me, especially since whatever I say seems not to be to your liking anyway. And your desire to portray me as someone who makes everyone shut up here has been noted.

    P.S. To preempt any questions about my “relationship” with Klein let me inform everyone that after all that I also created a Twitter account and approached Klein with a question whether he knew anything about Michael’s situation with AEG. He has not answered me.

    Like

  30. shelly permalink
    November 13, 2011 1:10 am

    Thanks for your answer, Lynande.

    If MJ was already using Propofol when Murray was hired, who was the Dr who gave it to him. Why Murray said nothing to the police, why MJ hired Murray if he already had a Dr who was giving it to him every night? It makes no sense.

    Like

  31. lynande51 permalink
    November 12, 2011 11:05 pm

    @ Shelly No the name is not on the bottle itself even when it is used in a surgical suite it is just assigned to the suite from the pharmacy. That is because it is hard to know just exactly how much is going to be used for a specific patient depending on proceedure.What is not used on a patient is wasted per protocol because once you tap the vial it has air in it an it is only good for 6 hours.

    Like

  32. lynande51 permalink
    November 12, 2011 10:55 pm

    @ rockon

    Klein’s latest target has been Frank Cascio on his facebook because Frank said MJ had issues with Demerol and Klein vehemently denies this was ever the case, which I believe is a lie factually based on the letters for “D” and “Buprinex” and Dr Farschian we have seen where MJ’s awareness of his own issues with Demerol are addressed. Klein now claims MJ has always been addicted to Propofol, something he claimed no knowledge of back in 2009.

    I know when I first heard that Frank was saying Michael used Demerol I was upset too then I realized when he was referring to and I settled down.I will be the first to correct anyone when they say that Michael had addictive behaviors.The note that was found in 2003 was a good example that he was concious of his problem and was taking the correct measures to deal with it.He was physically dependant on opiates on different occasions throughout his adult life.Klein knew that and he is just being off the wall with that whole propofol addiction. I think what bothers me the most is the timing of the whole thing and how Murray was using it to some kind of advantage toplace the blame on Michael for him killing him with propofol.I for one applaud the fact that Michael was aware enough of the problem to get the help he needed because that isnot easy and is nothing to be ashamed of it should be praised.
    As for Dr. Klein there is something wrong with him or around him and he comes across as opening his mouth and inserting his foot.If he has nothing to hide comeout and say what it is that needs to be said and leave Steve Hoefflin out of it for a change.It looks like he is always making up a new story to cover up the last story that wasn’t true.

    Like

  33. shelly permalink
    November 12, 2011 10:52 pm

    Is the name of th Dr who ordered the propofol on the bottle it self or not? If he had his own supply why did he asked Murray to buy it. If MJ knew that Murray had already ordered the propofol why did he asked the nurse to buy it and why did he talked to Metzger about intraveinous sleep agent?

    Like

  34. November 12, 2011 10:06 pm

    Why does the media not? Their incentive is ratings and money,they´ll sell their soul for that. And the general public, well many just are lazy ,like the sleaze and go along. Still I don´t want to believe all people or even most are like that.The trial was televised,but many working people may not have had the time to follow it closely.
    A good answer would be to show the trial again.-Murray is the main target at present as he has been filmed and will” tell all”.Anybody who believes one word of what he says is out of their mind.This is not to say that others may not have contributed to Michaels suffering.
    Murray killed Michael. On 6/25 2009 he infused 2083.5 mgs of propofol into Michael. Just check Dr.Shafers merits and his testimony.The only other possibility is the man behind the curtain.-And no need to go into Klein at length on this post. There is “the doctors around MJ” for that. MJ had a long history with Klein,and even in friendships there are ups and downs and breakups.
    More important at this point is to fight the lies being spread by murray.Unfortunately someone has to report on that despicable film and interview so we know what we are up against.
    Michael needed to fix up his face for the concerts.A big fault or problem was that all preparations for this megatour were left to the last minute.Not to speak of the crazy contract, even that has to be for another time.

    Like

  35. ares permalink
    November 12, 2011 4:34 pm

    I thought that we all knew that Klein was an untrustworthy person, to say the least. Why is this even discussed? The guy has said some pretty amazing things, like Mike peeing on front of people, the gay lover story, etc. Few of them has take them back.

    You can’t trust Klein. The guy says whatever comes in his mind and then take it back. And is he who says them, no one forces him.It’s his doing. The guy is a total scumbag.

    Like

  36. November 12, 2011 2:42 pm

    It wasn’t just something TMZ made up. Klein CALLED IN to support Pfeiffer’s story! There were also videos of him on TMZ talking about it and “confirming” it. (I don’t know if those videos still can be found, but maybe somebody can help me out.)

    Yes, he did that. It’s harder to find something like that though because the on-air TMZ thing are harder to track, it was on April 1st 2010. Harvey Levin actually challenged Klein on the air saying MJ was a very private person and would never have wanted anything like that out there and Klein was saying Pfeiffer was his soulmate and MJ was in the closet because African Americans are homophobic.

    He also tried to push the story on his own twitter, even responding to Elizabeth Taylor about it.

    Like

  37. November 12, 2011 2:36 pm

    A link keeping track of everything Klein said and done although missing his recent stuff

    http://youtoobrutus.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/arnold-klein-and-jason-pfeiffer-and-michael-jackson/

    I think people decided to attack Klein here for the simple reason that his name came up and a few of us have very many reasons to dislike and reject anything he says about MJ.

    Klein’s latest target has been Frank Cascio on his facebook because Frank said MJ had issues with Demerol and Klein vehemently denies this was ever the case, which I believe is a lie factually based on the letters for “D” and “Buprinex” and Dr Farschian we have seen where MJ’s awareness of his own issues with Demerol are addressed. Klein now claims MJ has always been addicted to Propofol, something he claimed no knowledge of back in 2009.

    Like

  38. Suzy permalink
    November 12, 2011 1:19 pm

    @ Helena

    I will give you one source as an example on the Pfeiffer story: http://entertainment.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978211415

    “Dr Arnold Klein, dermatologist to Michael Jackson (and possible biological father to his children), and his assistant Jason Pfeiffer are coming forward, claiming the King of Pop was gay and had a passionate affair with Pfeiffer.

    Random, right?

    Klein called in to TMZ live last week, to break the news, claiming Jason was “the love of [Michael’s] life”.

    It wasn’t just something TMZ made up. Klein CALLED IN to support Pfeiffer’s story! There were also videos of him on TMZ talking about it and “confirming” it. (I don’t know if those videos still can be found, but maybe somebody can help me out.)

    And when Elizabeth Taylor called him out on Twitter, Klein tweeted back – again, sticking to the story. How is that the media’s doing?

    He backtracks now because he had a falling out with Pfeiffer and now they throw each other under the bus exposing each others’ lies and Klein is trying to distance himself from that lie to get back in the graces of MJ fans. But he was in it with Pfeiffer. They made up and promoted that lie together.

    “But what surprised me most is that this unexpected interest in Klein and all this anger suddenly splashed into this blog exactly on the day he said it.”

    Just because someone has a different opinion than yours it doesn’t mean that person has underhanded motives.

    Like

  39. November 12, 2011 11:11 am

    “I was going to start my new series on Sunday, and it’ll take around 10 days or so to finish. Can your post on Klein wait until I’m finished? “

    Sure, David, no problem at all. Actually I am grateful to you as it gives me a chance to relax over the weekend – for the first time within a long period.

    And collecting information on Klein will take some time too.

    I will look forward to your posts as everyone else will!

    So bye-bye for now, I am off to the country!

    Like

  40. November 12, 2011 11:04 am

    “Murray implied that Michael had his own propofol which is about as ridiculous as the toenail story. How and who would have gotten this for Michael when orders for this require a medical license number to get it. So Murray can say he was caught up in it all he wants. He ordered the propofol with his license.”

    Lynette, yes, this important point was totally overlooked. Murray brought propofol into Michael’s house and then shifted all the blame for it to Michael (as usual). But the fact that only a doctor with a licence could do it is an undeniable proof that it a complete lie – another of Murray’s innumerable lies about Michael.

    I even remember Tim Lopez saying that all suppliers of medicines check up a licence required by the Drug Enforcement Agency – even if the medication is not a controlled drug: “Benoquin is not a controlled drug but it is our habit to ask for that number, so Murray’s number was verified and found active.”

    Like

  41. sanemjfan permalink
    November 12, 2011 10:49 am

    Okay, I see that we simply cannot do without Klein and a post about him. This will be the next thing I will try to do within the next few days. Basically it will be his interview with TMZ which will be a way to discuss most of the questions asked above.

    Helena, I was going to start my new series on Sunday, and it’ll take around 10 days or so to finish. Can your post on Klein wait until I’m finished? I’d prefer to have my series uninterrupted, if possible. If its urgent, then I can wait until you’re done.

    Like

  42. November 12, 2011 10:35 am

    “It was Klein who was there on TMZ and other media saying those things. Or do you deny he was on TMZ and Extra saying Michael was gay and had a gay relationship with his assistant? Do you deny him saying Michael loved to pee in a cup in front of people? Do you deny that even when Elizabeth Taylor called him out on Twitter he stuck to the Jason Pfeiffer gay lover story? (Yeah, what about Elizabeth’s words about him?) Do you deny that after Michael’s death he was on TMZ gossiping about him every couple of days?”

    Okay, I see that we simply cannot do without Klein and a post about him. This will be the next thing I will try to do within the next few days. Basically it will be his interview with TMZ which will be a way to discuss most of the questions asked above.

    To cover the rest, may I ask you, Suzy, to supply me with the links to what was reported about Klein by TMZ – while they were still friends – and what Klein said later when they fell out of love with each other? And how he explained the things he (allegedly) said before?

    I am asking for your assistance here as you seem to be very well versed on the subject, much better than I am. Since I don’t believe and don’t read TMZ much I am basing my opinion of Klein only on his own words in the TMZ interview disregarding the rest told by TMZ as gossip.

    If you are a neutral researcher you should be also interested in finding the materials on how Klein explained the whole thing.

    When we collect everything then there will be time to make certain conclusions on this matter.

    “To turn a blind eye on his actions and words just because you like his opinion in one subject (AEG) is cherry-picking IMO.”

    I was giving Klein the benefit of the doubt well before he voiced his opinion on AEG, and was as surprised as everyone else when he said it. But what surprised me most is that this unexpected interest in Klein and all this anger suddenly splashed into this blog exactly on the day he said it.

    In terms of the research it is an interesting phenomenon.

    Like

  43. Suzy permalink
    November 12, 2011 9:51 am

    @ Helena

    “No, he can also blame the media for making him look untrustworthy. By saying that you believe those things about Klein you and others are practically admitting that you believe the tabloid media.”

    WHAT he said and did was his own doing, not the tabloid media’s. Or to be more precise: the tabloid media’s doing in all this was that they gave a platform to his lies and possibly even encouraged him to lie. (Is it a coincidence that they came out with the gay lover story when Klein’s creditors were on his heels? How much did he get paid for saying it? But being broke doesn’t give you a pass on raising money in whichever unethical way you want.)

    It was Klein who was there on TMZ and other media saying those things. Or do you deny he was on TMZ and Extra saying Michael was gay and had a gay relationship with his assistant? Do you deny him saying Michael loved to pee in a cup in front of people? Do you deny that even when Elizabeth Taylor called him out on Twitter he stuck to the Jason Pfeiffer gay lover story? (Yeah, what about Elizabeth’s words about him?) Do you deny that after Michael’s death he was on TMZ gossiping about him every couple of days? What’s up with him being on TV last week claiming that Michael was a “Propofol addict” (when Propofol is not physically addictive – and he said this while the jury was deliberating!) and things like once he “saved” Michael when they were in New York and Michael was given Propofol by another doctor and he went down running on the street because of that? How does Propofol make one running down the street? That’s ridiculous. How is this the media’s doing? It was Klein saying these.

    And how do you think Michael would like his behavior? Do you think they still would be friends if he did this to him while he was alive?

    I hate the tabloid media from the bottom of my heart but you cannot blame everything Klein did on them. To turn a blind eye on his actions and words just because you like his opinion in one subject (AEG) is cherry-picking IMO.

    Like

  44. lynande51 permalink
    November 12, 2011 6:17 am

    I know that story but have a couple of questions about it. First it comes from TMZ. Sorry but that is my feeling about TMZ and Harvey Levin. While he does have some connections most of what he says is slanted to portray the picture that he wants to show which is usually somewhere off to the left of the truth. Then there is the date of the article 7/24/2009.Harvey was really hot to prove that Michael used propofol in the past so this doctor that Michael allegedly still owed half the money too then said that he thinks that he used propofol. Not really conclusive but interesting.
    Contrary to what a lot of people still think for some reason it is not as easy to get propofol as the media would like to imply. Up until Michael was found dead from propofol the only people that used it illegally were people in the medical profession that had access to it. I think everyone has overlooked a crucial and critical part of the testimony from the trial. The testimony of Tim Lopez when he said that Murray lied to him and said that the address that he was sending it to was his office/surgical center is just as important as the amounts that were shipped there. No pharmacist is going to send massive amounts to a home address to someone without the medical license to use propofol. That is what makes that whole propofol addiction thing so impossible.
    Murray implied that Michael had his own propofol which is about as ridiculous as the toenail story. How and who would have gotten this for Michael when orders for this require a medical license number to get it. So Murray can say he was caught up in it all he wants. He ordered the propofol with his license. The DEA searched through records of sales of propofol for this case which required quite a bit of work on their part because Murray was not very helpful or forthcoming when it came to records of what he did to Omar Arnold.
    That is the other funny thing. Michael supposedly had all this long list of aliases that he used and yet Omar Arnold was the same one used with Klein. Then with Murray he had an x-ray of a subluxation of his knee (not hip as Murray said) under another name but of all the names that the police were given by outside sources none of them came up with the dreaded Demerol which is carefully controlled. What I am trying to say is that since you have to have a medical license and an office to get this how would Michael have been addicted to something like propofol without a doctor’s help? And now that we know what happened to Michael when a doctor did this to him how is it completely lost on people that Michael never would have survived years of use of propofol. The idea is just as ridiculous again as the toenail story.The bottom line is that propofol did not kill Michael Jackson, it was Conrad Murray that killed him, his choice of weapon was propofol.
    Now that it has been definitively determined that Michael died from propofol use we have Dr.Klein out there saying that Michael was a propofol addict. First Murray points at Klein for using Demerol now Klein points at some unnamed doctor mostly Steve Hoefflin for getting Michael addicted to propofol. I would love to ask him how that crazy talk helps anyone but him. He has done nothing to help Michael’s image since he died and but he certainly has used Michael to improve his popularity in the press.
    Well the upside to that story if it is true, is that he used an anesthesiologist.Personally I think that it is time to start drug testing some of these doctors to see if they need an intervention.

    Like

  45. November 12, 2011 3:56 am

    Dr.Klein never used propofol on Michael during a proceedure so he is out

    http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/klein-does-surgery-on-jackson-in-gyno-office/#.Tr21klbZ2Iw

    He hired an anesthesiologist whilst he performed a procedure on MJ once.

    Like

  46. lynande51 permalink
    November 11, 2011 11:22 pm

    Although I question the practice of Dr. Klein what everyone has missed is something hidden in Michael’s words to Cherilyn Lee and the timeline.It was April when Michael asked Cherilyn Lee about propofol and his statement to her was this “doctors have told me it was safe”. Has everyone overlooked the plural of doctor being doctors? That means that there was more than one.
    Dr.Klein never used propofol on Michael during a proceedure so he is out.Dr Adams never said this to Michael and actually says that Murray was looking for another Dr to do this as far back as 2007. Dr. Allen Metzger never said this to Michael and refused to give it too him so who was left? One was Conrad Murray I am sure of that and the other is hidden in the timeline.Dr.Tohme Tohme. Even though no one can find a medical license on that man or records in a medical school he called himself a Dr of medicine right up until Michael died and the press started looking for that llicense of his.Dr. Tohme Tohme was fired by Michael as his financial advisor and manager in May of 2009.
    He fought a subpoena by the defense and won so we heard no testimony from him.It is not a reach to believe that Tohme R.Tohme also assured Michael that this would be safe.At the time of him asking Cherilyn Lee about the propofol Michael was still heavily involved with Tohme and there was no reason for him to believe that Tohme Tohme was not a doctor as he implied that he was.

    Like

  47. November 11, 2011 9:46 pm

    “Klein can only blame himself if he is not considered trustworthy”

    No, he can also blame the media for making him look untrustworthy. By saying that you believe those things about Klein you and others are practically admitting that you believe the tabloid media.

    I do not. I distrust the media absolutely – so when I see them harassing someone in Michael’s surrounding I have an automatic reaction to think the opposite and instead of believing them get interested in this person.

    The only trusted source I have of Klein is his 90min. interview with TMZ and though I have several big questions to him over it, the overall impression is not that bad. One day I will probably post the full transcript of it, together with my questions to Klein – so if he accidentally sees a post about himself in this blog he will at least know that it is not going to be plain sailing for him.

    “We just look at his actions and words and make our conclusion.”

    I hope you are indeed looking at his actions and words (and not at the actions and words of the media).

    This situation reminds me of the poor Cascio family who were some of the most trusted and best friends of Michael Jackson but were nevertheless dragged through the mud because they dared present to the world some new Michael’s songs. Many fans called the Cascios “liars”, “fake family extorting Michael in death”, “low life scumbags”, etc. These “fans” also thought it necessary to make their conclusions about the Cascios and impose their opinion on all others.

    As you remember I never shared those conclusions either though at that moment the fans’ fury was huge like an ocean wave. I am reminding you of it just to show that what “the fans say” is not always the truth.

    If anyone is interested in that period in the life of our blog here is the respective post: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/12/07/on-true-and-fake-michael-jacksons-friends/

    Like

  48. ares permalink
    November 11, 2011 9:29 pm

    -I wonder why the fans are so selective and do not go after him.- Helena

    Because Quincy Jones is this great producer and apparently for lots of people, including some fans, that means that he can say whatever he wants and he is forgiven for always being this ignorant fool.

    Like

  49. November 11, 2011 8:42 pm

    “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” -Edmund Burke

    There is a prominent evil that has served as a constant throughout Michael Jackson’s lifetime and even in death he hasn’t been able to escape it. The level of human indecency that continues to loom over Michael’s legacy is disturbing and downright cancerous, considering he was one of the greatest humanitarians to have ever graced this earth with his existence.

    Recently, just as Justice for Michael Jackson took a step forward when Conrad Murray was found guilty for causing Michael’s death, MSNBC, NBC, and their affiliates swoop in and drag the Jacksons, Michael’s children, and his fans 10 giant steps back leaving us all gutted with their inhumane practice of paying a convicted felon for his crime. Not only that, but we’re forced to relive June 25, 2009 for the third time.

    http://youredoingwrong.blogspot.com/2011/11/triumph-of-human-indecency.html

    Like

  50. November 11, 2011 8:28 pm

    I believe there was no “perfect storm” just a doctor would willfully and more likely repeatedly leave his patient unattended for long periods. This doctor abused a major standard of patient care, but moreover he abused the faith his patient had in believing Murray would do only two things, continuously monitor him while he slept and do no harm.

    There are many article and comments on the Intenet saying “It was going to happen”.

    Oh yeah… If Michael had been using Propofol for sleep for the number of years as being put about then why on June 25, 2009? Here is something which may explain why.

    Posted extract of Transcript of Murray’s Nov 11, 2011 Today’s interview.

    “The interviewer talks about him being out of the room for phone calls and text messages and asks if he was distracted. He said he left the room because Michael, who was so desperate for sleep, was finally sleeping and he wanted to let him sleep. He said, ”

    “”What was I supposed to do? Stay there and rub his feet or something?””
    “The answer would be, YES!, you should have stayed right there.”

    “Where the woman really nailed him, was when she said,”
    ” “Oh, you could see him from where you were standing?”, to which Murray replied,
    “”NO, I couldn’t see him.””
    “Unbelievable! (Let me help you with that shovel, Dr. Murray.)”

    “She then said”
    “”You thought you could hear him?” Murray said,……. “I think I could have heard him if he had gotten up and moved around.””..

    “So, Murray’s defense that Michael got out of bed, pulling his infusion stand and urine bag and “pushed” the final dose, just flew out the window. If Murray couldn’t hear THAT activity, he must have been on the other side of the house!”

    “The interviewer said,”
    “” “Would you have been able to hear that he stopped breathing?””
    “He replied, again, that Michael wasn’t on an infusion, so he shouldn’t have stopped breathing.”

    For full text transcripts: Nov 11, 2011
    Part : http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/119939-MSNBC-to-air-Murray-Documentary-quot-Michael-Jackson-and-the-Doctor-quot-Interview-part-1-transcript-pg28

    part 2: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/120004-Murray-Interview-amp-Documentary-Full-Transcripts-so-you-don-t-have-to-watch-it.

    Like

  51. November 11, 2011 8:20 pm

    “Jones said if Murray had not been treating Jackson there would have been another medical practitioner doing exactly the same.”

    Not doing the SAME! No other doctor would have been pouring propofol into Michael without a measuring device, economizing on basic monitoring equipment and talking on the phone while his patient is dying. Only Murray did it.

    “Such a good friend. Quincy has always something nice to say about MJ.”

    This “friend” should have long been included into the list of Michael’s detractors or at least those who cannot forgive him his success. I wonder why the fans are so selective and do not go after him.

    Like

  52. November 11, 2011 10:32 am

    I’ve read the snippets about the mockumentary here and on twitter, and can only say that Murray is making himself look worse, not better. It’s quite obvious he would have been totally creamed by Walgren. Does he even know what he’s saying? He sounds absurd, and I’m guessing that the honorable Judge Pastor will not take kindly to Murray’s ill-conceived attempts to ingratiate himself to viewers. I’m guessing the scale of justice is swinging in the opposite direction of what the careless doctor intended.

    Like

  53. Suzy permalink
    November 11, 2011 9:05 am

    “Who will believe Klein’s words after so vehement attacks?
    No one will.
    And this makes me wonder.”

    Helena,

    Klein can only blame himself if he is not considered trustworthy – and he is not by the majority of MJ fans, including me and, as I see it, several others who comment on this blog. You really think we are all in a conspiracy to attack Klein? No. We just look at his actions and words and make our conclusion.

    Like

  54. ares permalink
    November 11, 2011 5:29 am

    Did anyone by chance catched what Quincy Jones had to say about the Murray trial and his conviction? No? Well let me bring the good news.

    Conrad Murray’s Guilty Finding a Joke, Says Quincy Jones

    Two days after Dr Conrad Murray, the personal physician of Michael Jackson, was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, the star’s record producer and mentor has spoken out against the result.

    “It’s a joke,” said Quincy Jones, 78, Jackson’s producer on the hit albums Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad, which together have sold more than 160 million copies.

    Speaking in Dubai, Jones said if Murray had not been treating Jackson there would have been another medical practitioner doing exactly the same.

    “People of Michael’s stature get whatever they want, it just goes with the territory,” said the producer, who has earned a record 79 Grammy nominations over five decades. “There were 40 other doctors lined up to do the same thing, whatever it is.

    “I don’t know why a guy would kill someone who’s giving him $150,000 a month.”

    Such a good friend. Quincy has always something nice to say about MJ.

    Like

  55. November 11, 2011 1:30 am

    @Rockforeveron

    That wouldn’t at all surprise me, if Arnold Klein’s mental capacity was impaired, it would certainly explain some of the absolutely ridiculous things that he says.

    “Michael Jackson was “totally addicted to propofol,”

    “Propofol addiction is very specific.Once addicted you cannot sleep without it”

    At this point, Murray and Klein are finger pointing to deflect blame. I don’t see Klein’s self-serving statements and his interview as any different from Murray’s self-serving documentary . They both make ego-driven statements where they are the hero and doing everything right while everyone else is wrong.

    I’d like to ask Klein, what do you believe YOU did wrong, or do you think you’re perfect?

    Like

  56. November 11, 2011 1:00 am

    “We are trying to increase the number of readers and subscribers that we have on this blog”

    David, as you understand I am also happy that the blog is getting so much attention but let me add just a very small note to what you said.

    I don’t want our readers to think that we are trying to increase the number of readers just for the sake of it. We are here not for the sake of popularity – we are here for the sake of the truth about Michael.

    We never, Never, NEVER forsake the truth in return for popularity and are ready to choose unpopular paths if we know that this is where the truth is taking us.

    This blog is actually a kind of an on-line investigation. To be able to find some totally new grains of truth about Michael and what was happening around him we need to keep our minds open and look into all possibilities.

    Sometimes this annoys our readers because it clashes with the way they see things – they have set their minds on something and nothing will change their views no matter what.

    This is not the way we do it here. Those who come to this blog should be ready for thorough work done jointly where you have to dig a lot of mud before you find a small grain of truth. And our experience has shown that truth can be found in most unexpected places and may come in totally unusual forms.

    And in most cases before we form an opinion about something or someone we do a great amount of research – to be one hundred percent sure of what we are saying.

    Like

  57. November 11, 2011 12:54 am

    @Ameera

    I’ve heard that Klein has an actual medical condition, I’m not sure about the specifics but it’s something that does affect him and require medication (and also Pfeiffer talking about how Klein needed help going to the toilet and other things was based on this medical condition). I suspect it also gravely affects his mental health.

    Like

  58. November 11, 2011 12:29 am

    “I believe he is fame-hungry and a liar.”

    I’ve just been told that Arnold Klein has written on Twitter ttoday hat my post about AEG’s intentions towards Michael is THE TRUTH.
    I know that it is even without his confirmation for the simple reason that I’ve studied their contract and it is all there – stated point blank. But Klein’s opinion is still very important to me as it comes from a man who saw at least some of it with his own eyes.

    This is how this news was sent to me: http://twitter.com/#%21/awkmd

    But what I also find extremely interesting is the strange coincidence – his tweet coincided with a sudden enormous attention to Klein’s personality and a focus on him as a ‘liar’.

    Who will believe Klein’s words after so vehement attacks?
    No one will.
    And this makes me wonder.

    Like

  59. November 11, 2011 12:08 am

    @David, thanks for your comments.

    I kind of bristle when I am attacked for having a dissenting view, so thanks for letting me know that even though it may not be popular or in full agreement, I can express myself freely.

    I appreciate that.

    Like

  60. November 11, 2011 12:05 am

    @Vindicate MJ, “Over here you are mistaken – now I know you. And with all due respect to you, there is definitely a difference between us.”

    if you think a name on a screen and a few comments allow you to “know” someone, then yes, I agree, we are very different. Many people think they knew Michael too, because they read a few words in an article or heard a comment from someone, or saw him dance a few dances, and we know how wrong they were.

    You are attacking my personage because you don’t agree with something I wrote – I don’t do that. So, yes, there we are different.

    _____________________________________________

    @ Suzy and Rockforeveron,

    I absolutely believe that Klein was in cahoots with Jason in that story they concocted, and not only that, the inner-fighting between the two of them and the accusations that were flying back and forth with disgusting detail further convinced me that both Jason and Klein were completely dysfunctional.

    I believe he is fame-hungry and a liar. He was no different than the many “friends” of Michael’s who was near him only for the shine that they could get from it.

    Carrie Fisher in her new book explains what that is: “Micheal’s celebrity turned many people into eager, greedy stargazers who only wanted something from him above and beyond what a normal human is willing or expected to give. They were there for the anecdote. It’s what I call the “shine.” People want to rub up against it, and in so doing, their own value is increased. ”

    I know a lot of people like that!

    She describes a Christmas they spent together in 2008, and all the pictures that were taken:

    “But the main reason the documentation came up this time was mostly for Arnie’s friends, who wanted to take pictures of their meeting with Michael so they could carry his shine around. The encounter elevated them. It became, “Oh, I had Christmas Eve dinner with Michael Jackson. What did you do?””

    Lots of people have used their association with Michael as a way to make themselves more important. Murray did it. Klein did it too. Many people, even though he is dead, are still trying to do it.

    Like

  61. November 11, 2011 12:03 am

    “And he topless photos of Debbie in Klein’s clinic were taken for something to do with breast cancer screening, they weren’t taken for any other intention.”

    Breast cancer screening? I doubt it. Most probably it was just for fun. Or to show the pictures to Michael at some opportunity.
    She was pretty, attractive and playful. After seeing this video I think she was a good match for Michael. They shared the same zest.

    Like

  62. sanemjfan permalink
    November 10, 2011 11:59 pm

    @ ameera
    Your comments are welcomed here anytime. Despite whatever disagreements that we have on this blog, we all love and respect each other, so don’t feel that your thoughts have to be muzzled. We are trying to increase the number of readers and subscribers that we have on this blog, and we want everyone to feel welcome. Thanks!

    Like

  63. November 10, 2011 11:25 pm

    And he topless photos of Debbie in Klein’s clinic were taken for something to do with breast cancer screening, they weren’t taken for any other intention.

    Though I do find Debbie’s animosity towards Klein interesting.

    Like

  64. November 10, 2011 11:07 pm

    @Suzy

    I personally think they made up that lie together.

    They did. Someone who was there remembers them coming up with it together. Paul Camuso and Alicia Jacobs are both friends of Klein’s, Klein was also the one calling up TMZ to support Pfeiffer. The stories were both about money for Klein.

    Klein inserting himself into the guardianship order of only “Prince and Paris” speaks volumes to the motives of that. Talking about how good looking Prince is recently. Saying Michael was not straight or gay, he was too much of a child to have sex with anyone. Saying he staged interventions with Michael and Michael once had Propofol and another drug that Klein alleges was given to him by Hoefflin (Klein’s hatred for Hoefflin is almost cartoon like) and had gone running down the street only to be rescued by Klein, because an anesthetic obviously makes people run down anywhere. in 2009 he claimed no knowledge of Michael and Propofol and now he claims he knew and staged interventions. Saying he was restoring Michael’s nose after it had collapsed and his jawline, Mike never lost his jawline and a collapsed nose cannot be restored using only fillers.

    He’s a pathological liar, I think there’s something very very deeply wrong with him.

    Like

  65. November 10, 2011 10:28 pm

    “Oh brother, VindicateMJ, why do you have to get personal? That is not at all mature and it is very unnecessary.”

    I am a woman and I am not getting personal. You are actually amazing me.

    “Comments like the one you’ve left, with all due respect, are not in the spirit of the life that Michael led. Since I understand that this is your blog, I will try to keep my thoughts to myself from now on since it seems free thoughts are not appreciated.”

    The fact that your comments are staying here is proof that I absolutely allow free thoughts. But I believe that I also have the right to an opinion of my own and have the right to express it, especially since it is indeed my blog (which other admins joined later).

    “Most importantly, VindicateMJ, you don’t know me! How can you possible say “this is the difference between us”.”

    Over here you are mistaken – now I know you. And with all due respect to you, there is definitely a difference between us.

    Like

  66. November 10, 2011 10:04 pm

    @Suzy: “I personally don’t trust him at all and I totally agree with Ameera regarding him that he is not credible at all and probably a drug addict himself (just look at how incoherent he sometimes is).

    I also think his medical practice on Michael was highly questionable. He knew Michael was once addicted to Demerol, so why did he give him Demerol as a pain killer? That to me is very irresponsible.

    Murray is responsible for Michael’s death, but let’s not pretend there weren’t other shady doctors around Michael. Klein is definitely one of them.”

    _______________________________

    Suzy, thanks for pointing out in your response the many reasons why I mistrust Dr. Klein. I agree with everything you’ve said.

    Like

  67. November 10, 2011 10:00 pm

    “I gave my opinion on Dr. Klein. I don’t like him or believe he was a good friend to Michael, but I don’t require you to agree with me. I hope you don’t have that requirement of me — that I agree with you”.

    Ameera, I haven’t got any requirements of anyone. All I am expecting of people is not to be too harsh on others. I shudder when I see mob behavior and everyone rushing to accuse someone at the very first lie told by the media. This is frightening because it is no different from the way people behaved towards Michael.

    People tend to make mistakes and sometimes act in a foolish manner. That is why I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt. Always. By the way I am the first to suffer from it because the occasions when people took advantage of my soft heart are innumerable.

    @VindicateMJ – “You are probably young. I am not. And this is the difference between us.”

    Oh brother, VindicateMJ, why do you have to get personal? That is not at all mature and it is very unnecessary. Amazing that you say you expect people not to be too harsch and then you end your comment assuming to know how old I am, and making an inference that my age makes my thoughts, ideas and beliefs inferior to yours.

    If you act as if your opinion is superior then how are you different than the “haters” who do the same thing?

    I don’t think the age I am has anything to do with it, and that kind of comment reminds me of one of your staunchest opponents who often uses age to attack a commentator (though she often complains that they are old)

    I really don’t understand your response to me in light of your November 7th article about Arnie Klein article where you express misgivings about him and criticize him yourself.

    “I am definitely no fan of Dr.Arnold Klein but irrespective of his share of guilt in Micheal’s health problems Conrad Murray cannot be released of his own responsibilities of a doctor either.”

    “We cannot rule out that the people who were dispensing Demerol to Michael included Dr. Klein and Debbie Rowe as there is evidence showing that in the 90s the amount of Demerol injected by Debbie in Klein’s office was enormous.”
    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/08/27/doctors-around-michael-jackson-dr-arnold-klein-and-dr-steven-hoefflin/

    Most importantly, VindicateMJ, you don’t know me! How can you possible say “this is the difference between us”.

    Full candor, I read here sometimes and while I appreciate and applaud the hard work for the many contributors, I hardly comment because I often observe mob like behavior where people who disagree with the popular opinion on here are either unceremoniously lumped together under the category “hater” or labelled a “non-fan”.

    I believe that there are some strong similarities between the two fighting factions and that the two sides might have a lot of learn from each other.

    Comments like the one you’ve left, with all due respect, are not in the spirit of the life that Michael led. Since I understand that this is your blog, I will try to keep my thoughts to myself from now on since it seems free thoughts are not appreciated.

    Like

  68. Suzy permalink
    November 10, 2011 10:00 pm

    So that you don’t have to watch the documentary:

    Conrad Murray – NBC Today Show Interview – Part 1 – Aired 11-10-2011

    Savannah: Michael Jackson was one of the most beloved entertainers in this country, around the world. what is like to be blamed for his death ?

    Murray: Well I love Michael too. I’m as much of a fan as any of the others. To be blamed for his death has not been an easy thing.

    (Voice over) Murray first met Michael Jackson during a house call in Las Vegas at 2006 and then saw him on and off from that point forward.

    (Video of TII announcement)

    (Voice over) When Jackson agreed to a comeback tour in 2009, he wanted his own full time doctor with him and the concert promoter agreed to hire Jackson’s pick Dr. Murray for a salary of $150,000 a month.

    Savannah: Do you now wish that you never met Michael Jackson?

    Murray: (I don’t want to?) put blame on Michael as an individual. I’m not sure I regret that I meet Michael, I only wish maybe in our dealings with each other he was more forthcoming and honest to tell me things about himself.

    Savannah: You think he lied to you?

    Murray: Definitely.

    Savannah: About what?

    Murray : Well certainly he was deceptive by not sharing with me his whole medical history, the doctors he was seeing, the treatments he might have been receiving.

    (video of Walgren at trial talking about medicines)

    (Voice over) In court prosecutors laid out dozens of prescription bottles found in Michael Jackson’s home days after his death. A pharmacopia of pain killers, anti depressants and anti anxiety medications.

    Savannah: Did you really not know he had an addiction problem?

    Murray : Absolutely not. did not have a clue.

    Savannah: But wait a minute, you knew he was seeing other doctors. on bedside there are all these prescriptions with other doctors names on it.

    Murray : I cannot prevent Michael from seeing other doctor for whatever reason.

    Savannah: When he hired you, you must have realized the main reason he hired you was to give him this drug Propofol.

    Murray: No. Not at all.

    Savannah: But when he hired you full time one of the first actions you took was to start buying Propofol and sending it to California.

    Murray : Absolutely that’s not correct. First of all I met Michael with Propofol. This was not something that I introduced to Michael.

    (voice over) In fact Murray was hired in March 2009 and between April and June of that year prosecutors say he ordered 255 vials of Propofol adding up to more than 4 gallons for Jackson’s personal use.

    (video of security footage)

    (voice over) For 2 months Jackson came home late at night for rehearsals and Dr. Murray’s work day began. Setting up Michael with an IV in his bedroom, administering Propofol to help him sleep.

    Savannah: To you there’s still nothing wrong with giving Propofol in a home setting?

    Murray: I think Propofol is not recommended to be given in a home setting but it’s not contraindicated.

    Savannah: Was it wrong for you to give it in the conditions in which you gave it to Michael Jackson?

    Murray: I look at Mike’s condition but Michael – not as giving it but trying to find a method to take away something from him that I felt he should not be using on his own.

    Savannah: but why didn’t you just walk away?

    Murray: I should have walked away but if also I walked away I would have abandoned a friend.

    (voice over) Dr. Murray claims he was weaning Jackson off the drug.

    Savannah: Why should anyone believe that after 60 days of administering Propofol that suddenly in those last few days you decided to stop giving him Propofol? Why should anyone believe that?

    Murray: Well I tell you what. That happened. 3 days towards his death he was weaned off and I was success- I was extremely happy. because I finally received the state I wanted. The state was Michael away from Propofol.

    (voice over) Whatever his state was that night, at trial one of the most shocking pieces of evidence showed Michael Jackson in early May under the influence of something

    (partial audio of May 10 recording)

    (voice over) The slurred voice of Michael Jackson 6 weeks before his death in a recording police found out on Conrad Murray’s iPhone.

    Savannah: What was the purpose of recording him in that state?

    Murray : It was incidentally recorded.

    Savannah: You mean an accident?

    Murray: Yeah it was an accident.

    Savannah: When did you find out that it had been recorded?

    Murray: In court.

    Savannah: During the opening statements?

    Murray: H-hmm.

    (another part of May 10 recording is played)

    Murray : I ask him a question “Are you okay?” , I’m heard saying that to Michael. Then he says yes and then the next thing I heard is that he says “I’m asleep”.

    Savannah: Was he on Propofol?

    Murray : He was.

    (footage from TII movie)

    (Voice over) Although he desperately wanted that comeback, Michael Jackson’s days was numbered and Dr. Murray was the last person to ever to see Michael Jackson alive.

    Savannah: How much pressure did you feel to get him to sleep?

    Murray : Tremendous, tremendous. It was like nothing that I had ever encountered.

    Savannah: You are the last person to see him or talk to him before he died. What was he like in those final hours?

    Murray: A desperate man. Desperate.

    Savannah : Are you the cause of Michael Jackson’s death?

    Murray: No. I’m not.

    Savannah: Do you remember his final words before he died?

    Murray: (thinks for a while) It was probably – I don’t know – Probably when he was pleading and begging me to please please let him have some milk because that was the only thing that would work.

    Tomorrow he’ll answer : why he didn’t call 911 right away, why he didn’t tell paramedics that he had given Propofol and how long was he really out of the room.

    Like

  69. November 10, 2011 7:10 pm

    Debbie Franklin, Member Of The Conrad Murray Trial Jury, Describes Deliberation Process(VIDEO)

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/debbie-franklin-conrad-murray-trial-jury_n_1083957.html

    Like

  70. November 10, 2011 2:13 pm

    “I gave my opinion on Dr. Klein. I don’t like him or believe he was a good friend to Michael, but I don’t require you to agree with me. I hope you don’t have that requirement of me — that I agree with you”.

    Ameera, I haven’t got any requirements of anyone. All I am expecting of people is not to be too harsh on others. I shudder when I see mob behavior and everyone rushing to accuse someone at the very first lie told by the media. This is frightening because it is no different from the way people behaved towards Michael.

    People tend to make mistakes and sometimes act in a foolish manner. That is why I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt. Always. By the way I am the first to suffer from it because the occasions when people took advantage of my soft heart are innumerable.

    You are probably young. I am not. And this is the difference between us.

    Like

  71. Suzy permalink
    November 10, 2011 10:42 am

    Did British documentary pay for Murray’s costly defense?

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-et-1110-murray-doc-20111110,0,3333162,full.story

    Like

  72. Suzy permalink
    November 10, 2011 10:14 am

    @ Helena

    With all due respect I strongly disagree with you about Klein. He never said Michael was gay? Did you forget about the Jason Pfeiffer gay lover story? Yes, he retracted that since then, but only because he had a falling out with Pfeiffer and now they throw each other under the bus and expose each other. Back then he helped Pfeiffer spread and sell his lies and he supported them. I personally think they made up that lie together. If he found it so easy to lie in public then what makes you think he’s honest about everything else? I also found the peeing in the cup story outrageous and it didn’t help Michael at all. It made him look like a pervert – someone who likes to pee in a cup in front of other people, including children just for the sake of it. No, Klein did not put this story into a context. He did not say Michael did that out of necessity, for example at a concert backstage when he didn’t have time to go to the bathroom. Instead he left the impression (I think deliberately) that Michael had this kink to pee in front of other people. How did that help improve Michael’s public image or to defend him against the accusations?

    He also liked to run to TMZ and tell stories about Michael (true and false alike). How much Michael would have liked that?

    I personally don’t trust him at all and I totally agree with Ameera regarding him that he is not credible at all and probably a drug addict himself (just look at how incoherent he sometimes is).

    I also think his medical practice on Michael was highly questionable. He knew Michael was once addicted to Demerol, so why did he give him Demerol as a pain killer? That to me is very irresponsible.

    Murray is responsible for Michael’s death, but let’s not pretend there weren’t other shady doctors around Michael. Klein is definitely one of them.

    Like

  73. lynande51 permalink
    November 10, 2011 6:45 am

    @ameera Yes.

    Like

  74. November 10, 2011 6:29 am

    Yet Klein wants to wash his hands and pretend that he has no culpability.

    “He spoke of his belief of being targeted in the courtroom — just because you’re a little different. He likens his plight to Galileo and Jackson. ” http://www.hlntv.com/video/2011/11/05/exclusive

    If I had to render a guess, I think it’s Klein who is the addict. I can hardly understand a word that he says, and comparing himself to Galileo? Please. I don’t think its a coincidence that this interview was conducted and aired just as the jury was deliberating.

    Like

  75. lynande51 permalink
    November 10, 2011 6:11 am

    @ameera I think I forgot to mention something and that is when there is suspected diversion, possibly by an employee, in a medical practice like Arnold Klein’s. it is the doctor that is also in big trouble because he is the ultimate authority in his practice. He should know where medications especially the schedule 2 are going.He can be fined and most certainly would be,he could have his license suspended and he would have restrictions placed on his DEA number.That could be very difficult in his practice.

    Like

  76. November 10, 2011 2:18 am

    @VindicateMJ – “Ameera, frankly I don’t understand why we have to talk so much about Klein when it is actually Murray who is an issue.”
    _______________________

    Actually it was Kris who brought him up when she said: “Drowned in hearsay and lies, as usual–including Arnie Klein’s. That man has single-handedly done more damage to Michael’s reputation than most. All in an effort to save his own skin. And yet he knows exactly the conditions Michael suffered from.”

    Lynette spoke about Klein and also yourself, and then I after reading the comments gave my opinion on Dr. Klein.

    Of course no one has to talk about anything. I don’t like him or believe he was a good friend to Michael, but I don’t require you to agree with me. I hope you don’t have that requirement of me — that I agree with you.

    @VindicateMJ”I am totally amazed that Klein started giving Demerol once again after he himself condemned Hoefflin for starting Michael’s addiction. So I would very much like to hear his explanation of that.”

    I’m amazed, too, so at least with do agree on that, but I’m not interested in hearing his explanation because I don’t believe he is an honest person. For me, his enabling and exploitation of Micheal’s insecurities is unforgivable. I think Klein’s “treatment” of Michael is very relevant, because he, like Murray, abused his patient. Michael just didn’t so happen to die while under his care.

    @VindicateMJ – “But I am totally not disposed to mix together what is good in Klein with what is bad in the same man.”

    I don’t believe in black and white thinking, but when a person’s bad behavior outweighs their good, I’m not willing to give them a pass. Especially if they are not accountable for their actions. Klein admitting to giving Michael Demerol but trying to justify it, speaks to me of a lack of accountability.

    @VindicateMJ – “His words about him “to the best of his knowledge being absolutely no father” to the children come from that interview too. It isn’t a strange way to word it – he gave his sperm to some “sperm bank” and what someone did with it is really beyond his control. He might have a dozen children this way and would not know about it.”

    Yeah, that’s true, so then why even bring it up if its so speculative. People who donate sperm don’t walk around saying, You know, I might be the father of several children. They donate and move on. Speaking that way just gives rise to more questions — it doesn’t lend itself to dispelling rumors but rather inflaming them.

    @VindicateMJ “You may believe or disbelieve him, but if all Klein wanted to do is get a legal representation for the kids it is okay.”

    I think Klein’s words were self-serving at bestand an attempt to paint him as a savior looking to fly in and save the day; that’s my opinion. I think real friends don’t tell tales, like Elizabeth Taylor, and by the way, her tweet to Klein speaks volumes.

    I don’t care that Klein took responsibility for injecting Michael continuously with Demerol, it was completely dysfunctional and wrong on so many levels for him to do so and he has the nerve to try to justify it.

    I detest gossip, and wish Klein had kept his comments about Debbie and Micheal’s sexual relationship to himself. It was no crime, but it was in poor taste, imo, from a professional doctor and a self-proclaimed friend.

    History has shown when you fuel the tabloid medias insatiable appetite for “information” they don’t change their mind, right their wrongs and rescind their false comments about a person, they just twist the information to fit their agenda.

    Like

  77. November 10, 2011 1:41 am

    “His 90 min. interview with TMZ, where he completely violates his doctor/patient confidentiality by discussing Micheal’s over all physical healthy, his burn, lupus and vitiligo treatments, his drug use, his sexual relationship with Debbie Rowe, his “love” of urinating in front of people, and let’s not forget the plastic surgery and the paternity of Micheal’s children..
    IMO, completely unethical behavior. His trying to insert himself into the guardianship of Micheal’s children also at the time – outrageous.”

    Ameera, frankly I don’t understand why we have to talk so much about Klein when it is actually Murray who is an issue.

    I have a full transcript of that TMZ interview thanks to our reader and though I am not fully satisfied with some of his statements, his other statements – exactly about lupus and vitiligo – have helped me to get down to the bottom of the problems Michael was facing (and write a post about his lupus).

    Lupus is a disease everyone forgot that Michael was having. It exacerbated the burn scars he had on his scalp and the balloons put under his skin by another totally irresponsible doctor (Hoefflin) did not help Michael to get rid of that burn but only aggravated the problem.

    Stretching the skin in such a barbarous way was a monstrous thing to do. It didn’t help at all (Michael had to wear a wig after that) and it got him addicted to Demerol. Hoefflin made those operations one after another leaving Michael alone to handle the excruciating pain of it. It was probably Hoefflin who started that Demerol on Michael while Klein was only continuing with it.

    So to me Klein’saccount of that story is absolutely not “violating the patient’s confidentiality” – it is just setting the record straight. And the account is true because the “balloon thing” was confirmed by artist David Nordahl who saw those huge balloons under Michael’s skin with his own eyes.

    I am totally amazed that Klein started giving Demerol once again after he himself condemned Hoefflin for starting Michael’s addiction. So I would very much like to hear his explanation of that.

    But I am totally not disposed to mix together what is good in Klein with what is bad in the same man.

    Many of his words in that 93 min. interview were misinterpreted and distorted by TMZ.

    His words about him “to the best of his knowledge being absolutely no father” to the children come from that interview too. It isn’t a strange way to word it – he gave his sperm to some “sperm bank” and what someone did with it is really beyond his control. He might have a dozen children this way and would not know about it.

    As regards going to court for the children this is what Klein said in that interview:

    But let me tell you one little thing about this. I promised Michael Jackson one little thing. I said once, he was at my house and all the kids were at my house and the kids really like me and they gave me two little…a bunch of toys, he said, “If I ever go I want you to be responsible.” My greatest fear with these kids, and I don’t about the father, the schmather, that’s not important, I’m worried about whether their money is going to be taken, so what I made sure of is that they had their own legal representation. I went to court over that.

    I’m not going to get the kids, I don’t want the kids, but the welfare of the kids I was worried about. I was worried that the family would steal all the money because I think that’s what they’re there for.

    You may believe or disbelieve him, but if all Klein wanted to do is get a legal representation for the kids it is okay.

    Here are some things which are indisputably good about Klein:

    – Klein always said that Michael was not gay and loved women. Considering that Klein is gay himself he is the one who should know the difference.

    – Speaking that Debbie and Michael had sex is no crime. In fact Klein’s story of Debbie having a photo session in his office was proved by the amazing photos I’ve seen. Debbie was evidently setting on the road of seducing Michael and was photographed half naked and in extravagant postures. She looked very pretty there, by the way.

    – Klein never said anything bad about Michael’s association with children. He spoke about it to Harvey Levin and said that Michael was simply childlike. He was also the one who answered Evan Chandler that he had nothing to worry about his son and Michael when Evan Chandler approached him through a friend.

    – Klein took full responsibility for those Demerol injections on himself. This was very honest of him.

    – His “pee story” was a clumsy attempt to explain why Jordan could have seen Michael’s genitalia. Klein evidently doesn’t know that there was no match and offered the only explanation he could think of. There is nothing outrageous about it. Men often pee together – in public toilets for example (I know about it from movies), so it is not something terribly uncommon. And other people also said that Michael sometimes had to use bottles or cups during the concerts. Sometimes he had to do it to avoid going to public toilets where he once heard a camera clicking from somewhere underneath! He was being photographed there! (He spoke about it to Barbara Walters).

    In short, considering other Michael’s “friends” Klein is not the worst. Not the best either, but definitely not the worst.

    Having said that I reserve for myself the right to study Klein’s role in administering Demerol to Michael. As well as Hoefflin’s.

    Like

  78. November 10, 2011 12:29 am

    I found this comment on another site:

    “”Vinny Politan made the point that should Conrad Murray get an appeal, there’s even more evidence of his lies in the ‘documentary’ to convict him than in the statement he gave police. At appeal, the film would be shown to the jury.””

    If the Defense applies for and is successful in getting an appeal would the new prosecutor be able to bring any evidence that comes to light after initial investigation and court trial?

    A well known Tabloid hustler is reporting there may have been a language barrier (so called juror relative said). Now this I do not believe, the Defense hired a jury selection consultant and the jury questionnaire was most extensive, but the story made good fodder for those who have bias against naturalized citizens.

    Like

  79. November 9, 2011 11:46 pm

    Conrad Murray Juror
    The Decision Was Easy

    A juror in the Conrad Murray trial tells TMZ … the decision to find Murray guilty of involuntary manslaughter was not difficult, and jurors were all in agreement early on in the deliberation process.

    The juror — who asked not to be identified — tells us jurors were not conflicted and that “it was a concrete decision.”

    The juror also said the jurors were unified early on … long before they ended their 8-plus hours of deliberations.

    As for what swayed the jury, the juror did not want to speak for the others but said it was the totality of the evidence. We asked if Murray’s 2-hour interview with LAPD detectives was a turning point, but the juror said it wasn’t. The juror said the body of evidence — not one individual item — was just overwhelming.

    The juror is “glad it’s over” and is happy to return to “normal life.”

    http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/09/conrad-murray-trial-juror-decision-verdict/#.TrqgykP7jbA

    Like

  80. November 9, 2011 11:37 pm

    “Ameera, this is what Arnold Klein said to Harvey Levin:

    Levin Are you the father of any of Michael Jackson’s kids?
    Klein To the best of my knowledge, absolutely not.
    Levin Yet you donated sperm.
    Klein I once donated sperm but I don’t think absolutely I’m the father. I don’t think so. What’s wrong with giving sperm?

    The majority of people here realize that the media is lying, but nevertheless believe them when they report their lies. I DO NOT.

    I believe only the actual words of actual people when I hear them say that. And as far as I remember Michael asked us not to believe anything about anyone unless we hear it from their own mouth.

    So what Klein’s “friends” said to some papers is no proof to me at all. Especially now that I learn from David’s post that Jason Pfeiffer is a friend of Diane Dimond.
    __________________________________

    Oh, I don’t believe anything really unless I hear it from the horse mouth. Problem is if a person is a liar, you are not going to hear it from their mouth. They are going to continue to lie, distort and mislead. “I don’t think absolutely I’m the father” — that is a very strange way to articulate a denial, but any way. Klein’s behavior IMO, is what I have a problem with.

    What comes to mind is:

    His “Heal The Skin” lecture in memory of Michael Jackson. where he displayed posters for the event that included photos of Michael holding Blanket over the balcony and Micheal’s 2003 mugshot.

    Oh, there is also the car he put up for sale on ebay, boasting that Michael had rode in it in order to garner interest.

    His 90 min. interview with TMZ, where he completely violates his doctor/patient confidentiality by discussing Micheal’s over all physical healthy, his burn, lupus and vitiligo treatments, his drug use, his sexual relationship with Debbie Rowe, his “love” of urinating in front of people, and let’s not forget the plastic surgery and the paternity of Micheal’s children..

    IMO, completely unethical behavior. His trying to insert himself into the guardianship of Micheal’s children also at the time – outrageous.

    Prescribing a drug to Michael under an alias Omar Arnold is bad enough, but giving someone Demerol, consistently, overtime, knowing that they have a history of addiction to the substance is unconscionable, especially when it was in the practice of enabling Micheal’s BDD.

    And he says he was Micheal’s friend? I don’t call that friendship.

    So my feelings about Klein, as I said, are based on his words and his actions, not the media. I can tell you that I take everything reported on t.v. and in print with a huge grain of salt. And even though I detest TMZ and gossip columnists, I have to acknowledge that they are not always lying, thus you quoting Harvey’s interview with Klein.

    _______________________________-

    @VindicateMJ

    “The above can give us some idea what hell Michael had to go through when he was fighting his Demerol addiction. Psychological problems here are only one tenth of the problem – mostly it is huge physical pain. And we remember that firstly, it wasn’t him who started it, and secondly, he fought it well enough to keep it under control.”

    Michael always had psychological problems, emotional scars from childhood that had never healed. They didn’t just go away because he then developed real, physical pain. If anything, they would have been exacerbated by physical pain. I’m speaking about the things that he readily and consistently shared with us, his loneliness, his depression, his problem accepting his physical appearance, his being a perfectionist. Then when you think of the trails and the accusations, how he must have suffered.

    I personally just don’t believe it is an either or, all or nothing issue. When looking at what led Michael down the road that he inevitably found himself on, we must look at everything.

    In no way do I believe that Michael is at fault for his condition, because I do not believe in blaming the victim. The fact is that Michael had emotional/physical pain that instead of being helped with and healed, he was instead taken advantaged of and exploited. This is including Dr. Murray. Dr. Murray is not the only person who did that.

    Like

  81. November 9, 2011 11:07 pm

    “Conrad Murray told TODAY’s Savannah Guthrie that he didn’t call 911 when Michael Jackson stopped breathing because emergency responders would not have been able to get through the gate to the singer’s home.”

    Conrad Murray’s case is pure pathology. There was something uncanny in him being so calm during the trial. His arrogant appearance showed he didn’t care for what justice said. He knew he had something better up his sleeve to show us after the trial.

    And now it is beginning to spread like the plague.

    A new alliance between the last Judah Iscariot and Michael’s life-long detractors.

    Only recently we were told that Savannah Guthrie is friends with Diane Dimond and that Dimond had another “Jackson project” – and here we are with overwhelming proof of it. Their latest project is to justify Michael’s killer.

    Now he is a welcome guest at every media outlet.

    And we thought that he was in jail. Probably he is, but he was so terribly thoughtful to supply them in advance with enough lies to last them through his term. And when he comes out they will hail him as a hero.

    He is their hero because he killed the man they wanted to get rid of all their lives.

    I don’t know how the Heavens can put up with it.

    Like

  82. Suzy permalink
    November 9, 2011 10:17 pm

    My god! What a pathological liar!

    another update

    Conrad Murray talks about why he didn’t call 911

    Michael Jackson’s doctor speaks exclusively to TODAY’s Savannah Guthrie

    TODAY co-host Savannah Guthrie sits down with Dr. Conrad Murray in an exclusive interview airing Thursday, Nov. 10, and Friday, Nov. 11.

    By Gael Fashingbauer Cooper
    TODAY.com
    updated 40 minutes ago
    Print Font:

    Conrad Murray told TODAY’s Savannah Guthrie that he didn’t call 911 when Michael Jackson stopped breathing because emergency responders would not have been able to get through the gate to the singer’s home.

    “No one is allowed to come upstairs except for Mr. Jackson,” he said.

    “You called his bodyguard,” Guthrie said to Murray, who was the singer’s personal physician when he died in 2009. “Couldn’t you have said, ‘Call 911, and meet ’em at the gate?”

    Murray responded that he didn’t want to “leave a full explanation on the phone,” and that he didn’t think Jackson’s employee would return his call. Instead he began giving cardiopulmonary resuscitation, and a guard at Jackson’s rented Los Angeles mansion eventually called the emergency number 20 minutes later.

    Guthrie’s interview with Murray will air Thursday and Friday on TODAY. The MSNBC documentary “Michael Jackson and The Doctor” will premiere on MSNBC Friday at 10 p.m. ET.

    On Monday, Murray was convicted of involuntary manslaughter in the 2009 death of the pop star. He is now in jail awaiting sentencing on Nov. 29. He faces up to four years in prison and the loss of his medical license.

    Murray also told Guthrie that he didn’t tell the paramedics on the scene that Jackson had been given propofol because “it was inconsequential” as the effects of the drug would have worn off by that time. When Guthrie asked why not supply the information anyway, he insisted the drug “had no effect.”

    The doctor has been criticized for leaving the room to use his cell phone while the singer slept, and for making phone calls and sending texts and emails while Jackson was apparently dying. Murray told Guthrie that Jackson had finally fallen asleep and was in no need of his presence.

    “Am I gonna sit over him, sit around him, tug on his feet, do anything unusual to wake him up?” Murray said of leaving the singer alone. “No.”

    Murray also says he felt that just three days before Jackson’s death, the singer was successfully weaned off of the surgical anesthetic propofol upon which he depended for sleep. When Guthrie questioned why he had left the singer in a situation where he might have a chance to inject himself with the drug, something that was suggested by Murray’s defense team, the doctor said “that was not a foreseeable situation.”

    Guthrie also asked Murray why, when he felt he shouldn’t be giving Jackson propofol, he didn’t walk away from his $150,000 a month position as Jackson’s personal physician.

    “I should have walked away,” Murray said. “But if also I walked away, I would have abandoned a friend.”

    Like

  83. November 9, 2011 2:16 pm

    “I haven’t forgotten that he claimed he was the Prince’s and Paris’ father.”

    Ameera, this is what Arnold Klein said to Harvey Levin:

    Levin Are you the father of any of Michael Jackson’s kids?
    Klein To the best of my knowledge, absolutely not.
    Levin Yet you donated sperm.
    Klein I once donated sperm but I don’t think absolutely I’m the father. I don’t think so. What’s wrong with giving sperm?

    The majority of people here realize that the media is lying, but nevertheless believe them when they report their lies. I DO NOT. I believe only the actual words of actual people when I hear them say that. And as far as I remember Michael asked us not to believe anything about anyone unless we hear it from their own mouth.

    So what Klein’s “friends” said to some papers is no proof to me at all. Especially now that I learn from David’s post that Jason Pfeiffer is a friend of Diane Dimond.

    Like

  84. November 9, 2011 1:36 pm

    “Addiction to opiate pain killers is more complicated. Everyone who takes then becomes physically dependent on them.That is because everyone has opiate receptors in their brain that respond to severe physical pain.When the natural endorphines that are released in response to severe pain are not enough to ease that pain an opiate is introduced and the receptors are bound with that opiate.The opiate receptors grow in response to this binding and require more opiates to alleviate that pain, because they are no longer filled with the same amount of opiate because they are now larger. If the person does not recieve the additional opiates they will feel even more pain in their body because the natural receptors have been blocked by the opiates.That is when it becomes an addiction.That is the part that I would like Dr. Drew to make clear”

    Lynette, thank you for the scientific explanation of addiction proper. I have also read about physical addiction. It isn’t simple dependency – like a psychological dependency on coffee for example. No, it is an absolutely horrendous vicious circle which appears sometimes even after ONE take of an opiate. Since natural endorphines in the body stop working an opiate addict is doomed to take more and more of it.

    I’ve read that natural endorphines are produced by our body because all processes taking place inside us are actually painful – the blood circulating in vessels, the muscles contracting, the joints rubbing against each other when we move. Endorphines work as a sort of natural anesthesia against all that.

    And when an opiate is taken endorphines stop being produced on their own – that is why an addict’s whole body gives him the pain which people generally do not feel. An opiate addict has to take opiates just to get to the level of normal people – or otherwise they go through terrible pain. And with the majority of us this can happen from one intake of an opiate only!

    This is what the media should be educating people about. The book I’ve read is rather old so probably now they have learned how to handle physical addiction but from what I hear treating it is still a huge problem. This is what “once an addict, always an addict” saying means. Taking a narcotic is a step which cannot be undone as the harm done by it to the body is irreversible.

    The above can give us some idea what hell Michael had to go through when he was fighting his Demerol addiction. Psychological problems here are only one tenth of the problem – mostly it is huge physical pain. And we remember that firstly, it wasn’t him who started it, and secondly, he fought it well enough to keep it under control.

    Propofol Michael took for sleep is something totally different. It does not give any physical dependency and therefore could be stopped at any time – if, for example, Michael was in a less stressful situation, did not have to do shows and could get several hours of natural sleep. It is something like coffee taking or smoking which all of us can stop if we want to. However even coffee and smoking are pleasure-seeking processes while sleep is not.

    Sleep is not a pleasure – it is indispensable to a human body. And this is a premise all of us should start with when discussing Michael’s problem.

    Like

  85. November 9, 2011 8:22 am

    Thanks for the response and explanation, Lynette. I can’t help but feel that those who become addicted to opiates because of physical pain want to distinguish themselves from addicts who become addicted to substances because of emotional pain, because of the stigma attached to the label “addict”.

    In actuality one can have a physical and an emotional addiction. The problems can co-exist.

    I believe in the mind body connection and actually feel that a person with an emotional/mental attachment to a drug might have a much more difficult road to travel than one who has a physical addiction.

    Anyway I believe Michael was in both physical and emotional pain.

    Dr. Drew did make the distinction on his show, but I believe he would only air such a show as you’re asking if the ratings and viewers called for it; unfortunately that is the business he is in. Since we all have an ego, we all have to be careful that we don’t cater to it. I think his passion to educate the world about addiction is real, but he also caters to his network and ratings.

    As for Klein, I don’t like what he does, what he’s said and what he stands for. I haven’t forgotten that he claimed he was the Prince’s and Paris’ father.

    Like

  86. lynande51 permalink
    November 9, 2011 8:07 am

    ameera.
    I would like to add a quote from your reply to me if I can, to use as an example.

    “Once an addict, always an addict – it’s a life long struggle. Why do addicts become addicted, whether the pain is emotional, physical or both, the person is trying to alleviate pain. Whether the medication is self-administered, prescribed, requested or given, the desire to be pain free is the motivation.”

    This somewhat sums up what addiction is in general.Addiction to opiate pain killers is more complicated. Everyone who takes then becomes physically dependent on them.That is because everyone has opiate receptors in their brain that respond to severe physical pain.When the natural endorphines that are released in response to severe pain are not enough to ease that pain an opiate is introduced and the receptors are bound with that opiate.The opiate receptors grow in response to this binding and require more opiates to alleviate that pain, because they are no longer filled with the same amount of opiate because they are now larger. If the person does not recieve the additional opiates they will feel even more pain in their body because the natural receptors have been blocked by the opiates.That is when it becomes an addiction.That is the part that I would like Dr. Drew to make clear and in response to your comment that it is the label that makes it bad it couldn’t agree more.I would just like some more education on the topic instead of a half attempt in a sound bite.I would love Dr. Drew to devote an entire show to opiate addiction and how it occurs in anyone that takes them.
    As for Dr.Klein I would have to say that he seems to be troubled by all of this probably more than we know but I will say that Helena was right.He never blamed Michael for his addiction he blamed other doctors unlike Murray who first blamed Michael and has reached the epitome of blaming others in the documentary that is going to air where he place the blame on Alberto Alverez.

    Like

  87. November 9, 2011 6:57 am

    @Lynette “The problem that I have with “addiction’ being used is that they are not educating the masses what an opiate addiction really is.It is a chronic disease with periods of relapse and remission and in this case the reuse of opiates was started not by Dr. Klein but by Murray when he prescribed Lortab to Michael 2 years before he started seeing Dr. Klein and recieving the Demerol.”

    Educating the masses takes time, and since many are sheep and don’t like to think for themselves, it’s difficult. Still others are in the throws of their own addictive behavior and don’t want to be educated.

    Once an addict, always an addict – it’s a life long struggle. Why do addicts become addicted, whether the pain is emotional, physical or both, the person is trying to alleviate pain. Whether the medication is self-administered, prescribed, requested or given, the desire to be pain free is the motivation.

    I think only the most callous person can NOT understand that and just dismiss it.

    As for Klein, I have to say that I disagree that he is of any help to Michael. He contradicts himself, stating that Michael was not an addict, but was addicted to propofol. I believe he is only looking to clear his name.

    Like

  88. November 9, 2011 6:50 am

    @Kris @ameera “Having watched HLN a lot lately, I can tell you that Jane Velez-Mitchell and Dr. Drew have an agenda that blinds them to any facts that do not fit into their world view.”
    ____________________
    That could be true, probably is true. Those who oppose them though suffer from the same malady.
    ___________________
    “To call Michael and addict and junkie is wrong. . . According to him, we are free to love Michael, but only after we accept that he was a junkie “for at least the past thirty years.”. . . Let him find his addicts and addict-lovers elsewhere.”

    See that, these sentences speak to exactly what I’m talking about. An addict is not a sub-par human being deserving of scorn. An addict is a person who is suffering and has a problem and needs help.

    IMO, the problem is not the opinions of JVM or Dr. Drew, the problem is how those opinions are being perceived and judged.

    How did he malign Michael, but saying in his opinion he was an addict?

    How is that maligning a person? Only because being called an “addict” is perceived as an insult.

    I see that as black and white thinking. I see that as judgment of those who are suffering. The truth is many of us have addictions, we just won’t admit it.

    With prescription pain medication addiction being one of the number one killer in America, we need to stop vilifying the people suffering from of it.

    Some of us fans are addicted . . . to Michael and the image we have of him in our heads.

    I watched HLN, I filter out what I agree with and ignore the rest. I don’t look for morality in television, especially in shock value t.v.

    Like

  89. November 9, 2011 2:30 am

    @ameera Having watched HLN a lot lately, I can tell you that Jane Velez-Mitchell and Dr. Drew have an agenda that blinds them to any facts that do not fit into their world view. I have personally caught him (and her) sprouting inaccuracies and hearsay and presenting them as truths. Actually, I don’t care whether or not Michael was addicted to anything. On the other hand, I do care if someone paints him with that brush when he doesn’t deserve it. The worst thing Dr. Drew does with his innocuous statements is pull in suckers who don’t want to think for themselves and imagine that just because he has a D and an r in front of his name he speaks with the voice of authority. To malign someone who is dead and can’t defend himself is wrong. To state as facts innuendos that he “heard somewhere” is wrong. To call Michael and addict and junkie is wrong. What I like about this site is that the people who administer it try to get to the truth of things and then tell it, step by step. That is not what Dr. Drew does. It’s commendable that he’s trying to save the world, but I think his mission has put some mighty big blinders on him that he can’t see around, and an ego to match. According to him, we are free to love Michael, but only after we accept that he was a junkie “for at least the past thirty years.” I don’t need his permission for anything. I’m willing to bet I’ve done tons more research about Michael than he has. And unless he takes the trouble to find out who Michael is and was, I’m not interested in another word he might sprout. Let him find his addicts and addict-lovers elsewhere.

    Like

  90. November 8, 2011 8:16 pm

    Like

  91. sanemjfan permalink
    November 8, 2011 5:05 pm

    @Helena
    I will wait until this weekend to do my post because I want to make sure I have everyone’s undivided attention, and right now everyone is focused on getting Murray’s documentary cancelled.

    Like

  92. November 8, 2011 5:01 pm

    Like

  93. November 8, 2011 4:11 pm

    Like

  94. November 8, 2011 4:00 pm

    “Hey guys, this is David: 1. Please take note of my new username, sanemjfan. 2. Helena & Lynette: whenever you guys are completely finished doing posts on the trial, let me know, because I have some posts that I want to publish some new posts ASAP. But I want to wait until the trial is completely behind us.”

    Hello David. Sanemjfan is a nice username – in this crazy world of lies, pretence and hypocrisy Michael’s advocates are probably the only sane people left. If you want to publish your posts you can do it right now. There is no problem at all as the next step (looking into AEG’s contract) will take some time for me. And I also think that we will never be completely finished with the trial.

    Like

  95. November 8, 2011 3:32 pm

    “in this case the reuse of opiates was started not by Dr. Klein but by Murray when he prescribed Lortab to Michael 2 years before he started seeing Dr. Klein and recieving the Demerol.His reactivation predates Dr. Kleins administration and therefore he would be the one that reactivated the condition not Klein”

    Lynette, this is a very interesting point. As far as I understand this Lortab has nothing to do with the pneumonia Michael was suffering from? And it is not prescribed in such cases at all?

    “I am not sure what is going on with Klein he appears to be on Twitter with more and more conspiracy nonsense.That is not helping his cause.”

    If you have an opportunity to do so please repeat here what he is saying. It might not be “nonsense” at all – we are in the very midst of a huge publicity case where some people want to stay clean at the expense of everyone else. Klein will be one of their first and natural targets.

    There are very many methods of compromising people and getting them out of the way – Klein is easy prey for them as he was giving Michael Demerol (though in probably more or less safe doses) and was said to be telling strange stories. He is also terribly confused now, is bankrupt and does not understand how his best friends could have robbed him. And he sometimes says things without thinking what harm they can do.

    But there is something I like about Klein – even in his worst moments he never shifted the blame for that same Demerol onto Michael. He could have said that it was Michael who asked for it – but Klein specifically says it again and again that he gave it to him on his own. This way he is practically committing suicide, but he is still doing it.

    I think that Klein is on Michael’s side.

    Like

  96. Suzy permalink
    November 8, 2011 2:22 pm

    Here is a short clip from the documentary: http://www.tmz.com/videos/1_hl03beg3

    Like

  97. November 8, 2011 12:09 pm

    That documentary is really disgusting. At least, it shows Murray’s true color: greed.

    Like

  98. Suzy permalink
    November 8, 2011 11:25 am

    So what happened and what was proven at the trial is not “an accurate portrayal of what happened” but what Murray and his attorneys will say to the media is? If Murray has something to say why didn’t he testify?

    Judge Pastor seems like a no-nonsense guy. Hope this won’t go unnoticed for him as he considers the sentence for Murray.

    Like

  99. lynande51 permalink
    November 8, 2011 10:04 am

    And now we have promises of an accurate portrayal of what happened between Michael and Conrad Murray.If this were truly accurate wouldn’t Michael be alive to tell his story because we do know now that Murray has been legally proven to be a liar.
    The media and yes I am just as tired of writing that word as I am of hearing what they have to say are saying that this showed the seedy side of celebrity with the inplication that Michael lived a seedy life. When are they going to get it through their thick skulls that anything seedy in the death of Michael was introduced to them via Conrad Murray. I am not a big enough fool to fall for that. He was the one that said that Michael was addicted to a drug that he would never have survived addiction of. He was the one that said that Michael asked for this yet Cherilyn Lee says he was asking for someone to monitor him because it was suggested by someone else.That someone else was Conrad Murray.He conviently told police with a sarcastic tone in his voice that Michael was probably doing Demerol. That information came from him a proven liar..He was the one that said that Michael was stressed and could not sleep so he gave him propofol.Then when Michael died he was not sleeping due to his drug use that he also supposedly knew nothing about. Randy Phillips said he was excited and the piciture of Michael’s words on the mirror in his room show he was excited.He was the one that taped Michael on May 9th and then shortly after that a deal was made to hire Murray.Why has it escaped everyone in the media that he probably used that to force Michael to hire him or else he would take it to the media and ruin his comeback. He was the one that told Frank Dileo, Kenny Ortega and Randy Phillips to leave Michael’s medical care to him.He was in control.He was the one making the decisions and he was the one that forced his type of medical care on Michael. At what point do we think he is even a tiny bit capable of a truthful statement.I for one intend to watch that documentary just so I can count more of his lies and see how much more is spouted as the truth.I also find no surprises that it was produced in the UK and MSNBC is the one that is going to air it.No surprises there at all.

    Like

  100. Tahlia permalink
    November 8, 2011 9:28 am

    Michael wasn’t abusing prescription medication. Here’s the medical evidence that was logged. See autopsy report pages 5-10

    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf

    The following is on a topic on facebook:

    Amoxicillin (500mg capsules): [Prescribed by: Dwight James/Cherilyn Lee]
    Date of issue: 2/2/09
    Directions: 4 times /day = 1 every 6 hrs
    Number Issued: 28
    Number remaining: 21
    The evidence was logged on 7/9/09, which means that Michael took the capsules for only about two days.
    Aspirin: on the scene there was found a open bottle of BAYER Aspirin—over the counter purchase
    Azithromycin (250mg tablets): [Prescribed by: Dwight James/Cherilyn Lee]
    Date of Issue: 3/9/2009
    Directions: 2 tables on 1st day, then 1 tablet for 4 days
    Number Issued: 6
    Number remaining: 2
    The evidence was logged on 7/9/09, which means that Michael took the tablets for 3 days only.
    Bausch & Lomb eye drops: over the counter purchase.
    This evidence was logged in on 6/29/09
    Benoquin (20% lotion) [no doctor names]
    This evidence was logged in on 6/26/09
    Ultravate Ointment: a small tube was found with no prescription directions or doctor names.
    This evidence was logged in on 7/9/09
    Clonazepam (1mg tablets): [Prescribed by: Dr. Metzger]
    Date of Issue: 4/18/2009
    Directions: 1 at bedtime
    Number issued: 30
    Number remaining: 8
    The evidence was logged on 6/26/09, which means that Michael took this medication for 22 nights.
    Diazepam (10mg tables): [Prescribed by: Dr. Murray]
    Date of Issue: 6/20/2009
    Directions: ½ to 1 every 6 hrs
    Number issued: 60
    Number remaining: 57
    The evidence was logged on 6/26/09, if we assume that Michael took the highest recommended dose (which is 1 every 6 hrs), then it means that Michael used the medication for 1 day only. If we assume that Michael took the lowest recommended dose (1/2 tablet every 6 hrs) then it means that Michael took this medication for maximum of 2 days

    ECA Stack (no dose capsules): [no doctor names]
    The evidence was logged on 6/29/09, there’s no indication of recommended dosage, prescribing doctor, or the initial number available in the bottle. The remaining number is however mentioned to be 14.
    Flomax (0.4mg Capsules): [Prescribed by: Dr. Murray]
    Date of Issue: 6/3/2009
    Directions: 1 per day
    Number issued: 30
    Number remaining: 24
    The evidence was logged on 6/26/09, which means that Michael took this medication for 6 days.

    Flumazenil (0.5mg/ml Liquid): [no doctor names]
    In the medical evidence log, it is mentioned that the investigators recovered an empty glass vile of Flumazenil on 6/26/09. The investigator has also logged in on 6/29/09 4ml-5ml glass vials of Flumazenil; however there’s no indication of how many of these vials were recovered. It appears that there’s also no indication of the prescribing doctor or patient’s name of the vials.
    Hydroquinone (8% Lotion): [ no doctor names]
    The evidence was logged on 6/26/09 & there’s no indication of how much of the lotion was used.
    Lidocane (4% Lotion): [Prescribed by: Dr. Murray]
    The evidence was recovered on 6/26/09 & there’s no indication of how much of the lotion was used.

    Pages 5-10: Medical Evidence Continued
    Lidocaine HCI (6-30 ml liquid): [no physician or patient name]
    This evidence was logged in on 6/29/09.
    Lorazepam (2mg tablet): [Prescribed by: Dr. Murray]
    Date of Issue: 4/28/2009
    Directions: 1 at bedtime
    Number issued: 30
    Number remaining: 9
    The evidence was logged on 6/26/09, which means Michael took this medication for 21 nights.
    Aside from the above mentioned Lorazepam tables, the coroner’s investigator has recovered few injectable vials of Lorazepam from the scene:
    Lorazepam (4-5ml liquid): [no physician or patient name]
    It is not mentioned how many were recovered
    Lorazepam (2-4ml liquid): [no physician or patient name]
    It is not mentioned how many were recovered
    Midazolam (5-10ml liquid): [no physician or patient name]
    This evidence was logged in on 6/29/09
    Prednisone (10mg tablet): [Prescribed by: Arnold Klein]
    Date of Issue: 4/25/2009
    Directions: 6 tablets on the issued date, 4 the next day
    Number issued: 10
    Number remaining: 0
    The evidence was logged on 7/9/09, which means Michael did take the medication in full and as directed.
    Propofol (3-100ml liquid): [no physician or patient]
    This evidence was logged in on 6/29/09.
    Also the medical evidence log has an entry on 6/26/09 indicating recovery of an empty glass vial of propofol.
    Temazepam (30mg capsules): [Prescribed by: Dr. Murray]
    Date of Issue: 12/22/2008
    Directions: 1 at bedtime as needed
    Number issued: 30
    Number remaining: 3
    Tizanidine (4mg tablet): [Prescribed by: Dr. Arnold Klein]
    Date of Issue: 6/7/2009
    Directions: 1/2 at bedtime
    Number issued: 10
    Number remaining: 8
    This evidence was logged in on 6/26/09, which means Michael took this medication for about 4nights.
    A second set of Zanaflex was entered into the evidence log on 7/9/2009, below is the details:
    Zanaflex (4mg tablet): [Prescribed by: Dr. Arnold Klein]
    Date of Issue: 11/6/2008
    Directions: 1/2 at bedtime
    Number issued: 4
    Number remaining: 0
    Trazadone (50mg tablet) : [Prescribed by: Dr. Metzger]
    Date of Issue: 4/18/2009
    Directions: 2 at bedtime as needed
    Number issued: 60
    Number remaining: 38
    This evidence was logged in on 6/26/09, which means Michael might have taken this medication for about 11 nights.

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/topic.php?uid=296194732047&topic=13879

    Like

  101. Suzy permalink
    November 8, 2011 9:27 am

    Here we go. The immoral media at it again giving a platform for Murray to cash-in on his crime.

    NBC, Nine Network, C4 to rush to air Conrad Murray doc
    Adam Benzine

    NBC, MSNBC, Australian broadcaster Nine Network and UK net Channel 4 are among the broadcasters that will rush to air a documentary boasting exclusive access to Dr Conrad Murray (pictured), who was today convicted for the involuntary manslaughter of late singer Michael Jackson.

    Michael Jackson and the Doctor: A Fatal Friendship (1 x 50-minutes) and an accompanying exclusive news interview with Murray (1 x 15-minutes) have both been produced by UK indie October Films, in association with What’s It All About? Productions.

    The documentary, from director Tom Roberts, promises to explore “the surreal world inhabited by Jackson in the last three months of his life,” while also examining “his fatal friendship with the doctor he handpicked to care for himself and his children.”

    The two companies secured exclusive access to Murray in November 2009, prior to him being charged, and “filmed with Dr Murray throughout the intervening two years and have continued to record with him during the trial,” according to Zodiak Rights, which is handling distribution and pre-sales for the project.

    Jane Millichip, executive producer for Zodiak Rights, said: “The combination of unique access and first-rate filmmaking make this documentary and news interview truly landmark television. The collaboration of MSNBC, NBC, Nine Network and Channel 4 has been vital in delivering this great piece of television.”

    Nine Network in Australia is slated to be first off the block, airing the documentary this coming Thursday (November 10), while MSNBC in the U.S. will air the documentary a day later (November 11), at 10 p.m. EST and again on Sunday (November 13) at 9 p.m. EST. Channel 4 in the UK will also transmit later this week.

    Zodiak said it has brought on board more than 10 more international broadcasters who will swiftly follow with their transmissions.

    The exclusive news interview with Murray was conducted by UK-based journalist Steve Hewlett on Sunday, October 30, and is billed as the only interview Murray will conduct.

    Adam Bullmore, executive producer for October Films, said: “Made with remarkable levels of access and complete editorial independence, we believe this film was the most complete and accurate story of what really happened to Michael Jackson and Conrad Murray on June 25, 2009, and why.”

    The news comes after a jury today found the Texas physician, who administered a powerful surgical anesthetic to Michael Jackson hours before his death in 2009, guilty of involuntary manslaughter following a six-week trial. Murray now faces up to four years in prison and the suspension of his medical license.

    http://realscreen.com/2011/11/07/nbc-nine-network-c4-to-rush-to-air-conrad-murray-doc/#ixzz1d5A4wMWC

    Like

  102. sanemjfan permalink
    November 8, 2011 7:33 am

    Hey guys, this is David:

    1. Please take note of my new username, sanemjfan. I’ve decided to change it to that after an epiphany that I recently had, after going through some disagreements with some other fans over a topic that disturbed me.

    2. Helena & Lynette: whenever you guys are completely finished doing posts on the trial, let me know, because I have some posts that I want to publish some new posts ASAP. But I want to wait until the trial is completely behind us.

    Like

  103. lynande51 permalink
    November 8, 2011 7:31 am

    teva if DD and JVM are still spouting the use of propofol for rapid withdrawal I need to stop them.That is just more irresponsible uneducation of the public. More dangerous misinformation they need to stop before someone else thinks the same thing that they do or are doign to others.

    Like

  104. lynande51 permalink
    November 8, 2011 7:07 am

    I agree Kris that has been Dr. Drew’s focus since the minute the defense came out with the word Demerol in Dr. Klein’s (partial) medical records. I am not sure what is going on with Klein he appears to be on Twitter with more and more conspiracy nonsense.That is not helping his cause.
    I’m not sure what the downside is here for Dr.Drew he said he wants the kind of doctor that Murray was to be held accountable or doesn’t he?If he doesn’t I would have to ask why since it was my understanding that is what his whole purpose was in his show. What happened to him with that guilty veridict was puzzling.As soon as a guilty verdict was found and there was obvious rejoicing he wanted everyone to be somber for Murray’s family? He has been puzzling me for some time with his stance that Michael wa addicted.He on one hand says that we should understand addiction and then with that shows no compassion whatsoever for Michael’s family.He even went so far as to say that his wife Tweeted him in tears.Who were those tears for?Yes thanks to the hypocrisy of people in the media we still have a lot of work to do.
    The problem that I have with “addiction’ being used is that they are not educating the masses what an opiate addiction really is.It is a chronic disease with periods of relapse and remission and in this case the reuse of opiates was started not by Dr. Klein but by Murray when he prescribed Lortab to Michael 2 years before he started seeing Dr. Klein and recieving the Demerol.His reactivation predates Dr. Kleins administration and therefore he would be the one that reactivated the condition not Klein. More finger pointing by Murray making it look like it was someone elses fault. There is also the factor that Murray lied about nearly everything in his statement to the police at what point and what parts do we believe?
    I do know the action potential of propofol and the rapid metabolism.It is highly unlikely that Michael would have survived 80 nightly doses of propofol in a drip that Murray says he did.Murray was too careless for Michael to have survived it.I think he started giving it to him about 2 weeks before when people started noticing a change in Michael.I think prior to that he was using Midazolam and Lorazepam to get him to sleep.The reason that he started using the propofol was to cover the fact that he had become tolerant of the benzos and they were no longer working.We heard from Kenny Ortega how Murray reacted to them wanting to have Michael checked out by someone to see what was wrong. He chastised all of the others in the room and stated that he was in charge of Michael’s health.That is a mighty powerful statement to make and more of a coverup by Murray considering he knew exactly what was being done to Michael everynight.As for what Murray was doing with the propofol that might have remained unused I think he just plain threw it away more covering his ass.

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  105. November 8, 2011 7:03 am

    edit – by way of clarification, when I say, “there’s nothing wrong w/ having an addiction” I mean that it doesn’t mean that the person is a bad person or defective in some way. It means that the person is suffering and needs help.

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  106. November 8, 2011 7:01 am

    It’s not taking away from Michael’s humanity to acknowledge that obviously he struggled with addiction. What needs to change is the publics distorted perception of addiction as the nine letter dirty word that conjures images of a junky on a corner knocking an old lady over the head.
    Dr. Drew and JVM have a passion about educating the world about addiction. There’s nothing wrong with that. The world needs to be educated about it and if this verdict can in some way stop doctors from abusing their patients and the power they have to write prescriptions, then that is a good thing.

    When fans deny that Michael struggled with addiction, they are also denying the obvious pain he was in, both emotional and physical, and that does not humanize him. In order to see Michael the man, IMO, we need to look at the whole picture and stop deifying him.

    Yes the media has an agenda, and their motivation is sensationalism and shock value t.v. to get people to watch. To rise above this though, one doesn’t have to feed into what they say and immediately be on the defensive. One can say, for example, there is nothing wrong with having an addiction, and certainly Micheal’s struggle with it was well warranted.

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  107. Teva permalink
    November 8, 2011 6:53 am

    @Kris Heywood
    ….and what is worst DrD and JVM have determined that the propofol was to treat the withdrawal from opiates!! Ridiculous and unfounded.

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  108. November 8, 2011 6:04 am

    Listening to HLN, I am given the impression Michael was severely hooked on everything for a very long time and everyone knew it but me. They’re still trying to take away his humanity and make a caricature out of him. I don’t think I can make myself sit through Dr. Drew, who threatens to make his whole program about addiction, doctor-shopping, and enablers. Where’s Michael Jackson in all this? Drowned in hearsay and lies, as usual–including Arnie Klein’s. That man has single-handedly done more damage to Michael’s reputation than most. All in an effort to save his own skin. And yet he knows exactly the conditions Michael suffered from. I hear no one mentioning lupus or dancer’s feet, etc. All we are shown is a willful, stubborn entertainer who wanted his own way . . . There’s lots more work for us to do!

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  109. November 8, 2011 3:38 am

    A Message from John Branca and John McClain, Co-Executors of The Estate of Michael Jackson

    The Estate of Michael Jackson and Michael himself has always believed the jury system works and despite the tragedy that brought about this trial we are in agreement with the jury’s verdict. In this case Justice has been served. Michael is missed on a daily basis but his genius and his music will be with us forever. He is “the greatest entertainer that has ever lived”

    http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/news/message-john-branca-and-john-mcclain-co-executors-estate-michael-jackson

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