Skip to content

Wade Robson’s early years in Australia. Could he be abused by SOMEONE DIFFERENT?

July 19, 2015

Every normal person will agree that Wade Robson’s story claiming that for thirty years “he always remembered that he was raped” but “didn’t realize that it was sexual abuse” is insane and may sound convincing only in case it refers to the memory of a very young child.

Indeed, it is only toddlers and very small children who are unable to differentiate between right and wrong in the behavior of adults and who give their trusting little hand to almost any of them, accepting everything done to them as a norm (alas).

While it is unfortunately easy to cheat a five-year old by saying that “what we are doing is right” or go without any explanation at all, similar behavior with a teenager will already get him very much on his guard. And convincing a 22-year old that rape, for example, is perfectly okay will be a totally impossible task – with the exception of complete imbeciles of course.

But Robson doesn’t look like one, even though he talks of “not knowing what it was” even when a grown-up. The complaints filed by him against the MJ Estate have some parts redacted for the general public, but his lawyers and MJ haters who for some reason are extremely knowledgeable about the details of Robson’s case, explain to us that Robson denied everything for so many years because “he thought that rape was a manifestation of love” and “he didn’t realize that it was sexual abuse”.

And not only didn’t he realize it when he was in his teens, but he didn’t realize it when he was almost 23 and testified about Michael’s innocence at the 2005 trial (where he said that MJ had never as much as touched him), and it was only when he turned 30 that some good therapist finally enlightened him on the subject and explained to him that rape is sexual abuse after all.

Never mind that the story is ridiculous, that none of it ever happened and there is overwhelming proof that Robson’s is telling us a huge lie – Robson’s version is so big an insult to human intelligence and common sense that it is no use even going into that.

But there is another possibility here. A kid may indeed not realize that he was sexually abused if it happened to him at a very early age – the very small don’t question the behavior of adults and don’t properly realize what is done to them and why.

Remember Dylan Farrow never liking sitting in Woody Allen’s lap? She felt uncomfortable by what he was doing to her but without realizing what it was. And how is a small kid supposed to know that caressing her hair is perfectly okay, while caressing her other body part is absolutely wrong? The kid will feel uneasy but will still tolerate this behavior because he or she does not see the difference between the two and because small children are always taught by adults to “behave themselves”, obey the elders and do as they are told.

In contrast to that a teenager would not tolerate the same or as a very minimum will be fully aware of what is being done to him or her.

So when a 30-year old man says that “he didn’t realize that it was rape” his story is either fiction or the abuse happened when he was very, very small.  There is simply no other alternative no matter how hard the narrator is trying to adjust, extend and apply his story to a different age.

But what is the age borderline between the time when the child “doesn’t realize” and the time when he “already knows”?

All of us were children once, so our own personal experience can help here, however if you don’t want to rely on that here is what scientific research says:

“From the ages of three to seven children begin to have a sense of learned modesty and of the differences between private and public behaviors”.

“From the ages of three to five they are old enough to understand that no one — not even family members or other people they trust — should ever touch them in a way that feels uncomfortable.”

http://kidshealth.org/parent/growth/sexual_health/development.html#

So as regards Robson our estimation will be that at the age of seven and a half, when he went to the US in 1990 and met MJ there, he was mature enough to know and understand that allowing someone to fiddle with his body parts was not quite right.

But at the age of four or five it was probably not that clear to him, same as it was for the rest of us.

To my big surprise this early preschool period in a child’s life turned out to be the time when boys are at the biggest risk of being sexually abused. You will never guess it but according to the US statistics the age when boys are most likely to be sexually assaulted is age four. 

Girls enter the main risk group ten years later, at the age of fourteen.

Pennsylvania University did a sweeping research in cooperation with the FBI and other US agencies and its 2001/2002 report said (parents, attention please):

Average age of abuse for boys is 4 years old, for girls 14 years old according to Pennsylvania University Report, 2001

Average age of abuse for boys is 4 years old, for girls 14 years old according to Pennsylvania University Report, 2001

Based on the NIBRS data, the year in a male’s life when he is most likely to be the victim of sexual assault is age 4. By age 17 a male’s risk of victimization has been cut by a factor of 5;

A female’s year of greatest risk is age 14. In the later juvenile years (ages 14-17), the female victimization rates are at least 10 times greater than the male rates for similar age groups.

http://es.scribd.com/doc/78886345/The-Commercial-Sexual-Exploitation-of-Children-In-the-U-S-Canada-and-Mexico-Complete-CSEC-020220

In short, if ever Robson was sexually abused, according to statistical data and his own description the most likely period when it could happen to him was age four or around it, which was the time well before he went to the US.

If this is the case, Robson is simply using the deceased Michael Jackson as a scapegoat for something he didn’t do but should pay for another person’s guilt. One allegation more about Jackson, one allegation less about him – what does it really matter to some people? The real perpetrator may not have money while the MJ estate does, and this is all that matters for a crooked and cynical mind which is ready to substitute the innocent for the guilty.

Those who think that such a scenario is too far-fetched will have to be reminded that it is based solely on Robson’s own story.

If we assume that he could really be abused in his childhood and for this reason had a nervous breakdown many years later, and if we believe his version that he couldn’t properly understand what had been done to him until he sought some insight therapy at the age of 30, this type of long-term “unawareness” could happen only if the abuse took place at a very early age. There is simply no other alternative here, guys, whatever MJ haters say.

I repeat, only in this case Robson’s childhood experience will be more or less consistent with his current incoherent story and may sound more or less believable to us.

The reason for that has already been pointed out – very small children are unable to realize the meaning of sexual actions towards them by some monstrous “kiddie-fiddlers”, but are able to push the memory of the ugly experience into the back of their minds half-remembering and half-forgetting it, all the time being troubled and depressed for seemingly no reason, and then, many years later have a flashback into the past when some chance occurrence triggers off the painful experience in a kind of a bang.

See what the Australian singer Debra Byrne says in her book “Not quite Ripe” about being abused by her own grandfather since as early as she could remember:

Debra Byrne

Debra Byrne

“From inside the car, I can see the beach. I hear my family talking and other children playing games. The game has begun and my senses begin to shut down . . . a familiar smell is in the car, I don’t like it. His hands are on the back of my head, pushing it down . . . I want to cry but I don’t, I want my mum but she never, ever comes. No one looks for me and I know they never will.”

“My grandfather had been sexually abusing me since as early as I can remember,” she recalls. “It’s quite common for a pedophile to abuse a baby… No age is too young, it’s very complex. It’s not that you hate it…you don’t actually understand it – you don’t really have an opinion of it and that’s exactly what you’re meant to have – no opinion of it – because this is out of your control…”

“You don’t really understand it and don’t have an opinion of it” – this is how a very small child feels when being abused. The child knows what is happening and feels horrible about it, but thinks it is appropriate, in the same way kids think it is okay for adults to bathe them or give them bitter-tasting pills and never doubt their right to do so.

So it is Robson’s own description which is suggestive that the abuse (if any) could happen to him only at a very tender age – like him being three, four or five years old. And in this case even in theory it could never be done by MJ as until seven Robson never left Australia, so in search for his possible abuser we will have to go to his homeland and look at his early years there.

There is no guarantee that we will find anything there but we could at least look at the people he associated with and see whether an abuse was possible in the social environment he was in.

EARLY YEARS IN AUSTRALIA

Robson, born on September 17, 1982 made his first TV appearance in 1986, apparently at the age of four. This is when he went on a local Australian talent show “New Faces 4” and performed there a dance routine to Michael Jackson’s “Smooth Criminal” (according to this earlier wiki article). Or it could be another MJ’s song given that Smooth Criminal was only in a demo version at the time.

Robson at age 5. Together we will change the world

Wade Robson was five when he first met Michael Jackson in 1987

Whatever, a year later, in 1987 he won a contest where the prize was to meet Michael Jackson. The boy and his mother did indeed meet Michael and he even took the little Wade to perform with him on stage the next day. It was Michael Jackson’s second show in Brisbaine during the Bad tour and it took place on November 28, 1987. The boy and his mother once again saw Michael the next morning after the show and talked to him for two hours or so.

After that concert Robson didn’t see Michael for another two years and met him again only in winter 1990 when Robson’s “Johnny Young Talent School” dance troupe was invited to Disneyland.

As we already know it took the family eight days to find the telephone number of Michael’s manager Norma Staikos who eventually arranged for them to visit MJ at his recording studio. Michael invited the Robson children, parents and grandparents to spend two weekends at Neverland and a couple of days in his Los Angeles Westwood condo where the three Robsons stayed with MJ.

All in all during that visit the family spent with Michael around a week and this is why it impressed the child as a “week-long trip” while in reality the family was in the US for nearly a month – at least from the day of his performance at Disneyland, January 26th until approximately February 18th, 1990.

Though this is not the goal of the present post let me still note that any abuse of Wade Robson during those days was absolutely ruled out. Robson’s story gets exceptionally sloppy when it comes to its details and every single detail of what he is saying now is in contradiction with the 2005 testimonies of his own mother Joy, sister Chantal and Michael’s maid Blanca Francia. These people were simply describing on which day they did what never realizing that it would become so instrumental in establishing the truth ten years later and disproving Robson’s current lies (see this, this and this post for the proof of it).

Following that winter 1990 visit Robson and his family travelled to the US on two more occasions, in May and September 1990, and then (what a surprise) spent a whole year away from Michael Jackson which is a fact Robson never mentions since it doesn’t suit his story.

It was within that year that Wade, his mother and sister took a decision to separate from the rest of the family and in September 1991 the three of them went to live in America though according to Robson’s later interview (2002) the remaining part of the family thought it “insane”.

By the time of their arrival in the US Robson had already turned nine. However the age of nine is already well beyond the time limits of the scenario we are investigating here, and that is why we will return back in time, to the year 1987 when Wade was only five.

TURNING PROFESSIONAL AT 1987 

Robson’s official website says that his professional career started right after that notable concert with MJ. The very next day after the show he enrolled at a Brisbaine dance school called the Johnny Young Talent School and “became a professional” at the age of five.

In his 2002 interview Robson said that he didn’t want to be choreographed like the rest of the children and liked to “do his own thing”, so they just “put the dancers behind him and choreographed them” while he was perfecting his imitations of Michael Jackson’s dance.

Speaking about Johnny Young’s Talent school Robson said that their child troupe travelled all around Australia and performed in Melbourne and Sydney. The troupe was performing in shopping malls, clubs and on morning TV programs and their concerts were “roughly fourteen times a week” according to his website.

Wait, so they performed fourteen times a week? But this is twice a day on every day of the week including Saturdays and Sundays!

You will agree that so dense a work schedule could be possible only when the young dancers were on holidays, but once they were, the children must have been away from home for whole days, if not weeks.

This is the first time I realized that if Robson travelled with the dance troupe for several years (since 1987 to 1991 when he moved to the US) beginning with age five or six, even the constant presence of his mother would not save the boy from the danger of a possible abuse.

There were surely moments when the children were left on their own, were in the company of older dancers, the school staff or agents taking care of their travel, accommodation and catering, and some of those who were in regular contact with the children could easily turn out to be wrongdoers.

Though this danger sounds abstract you will agree that it did exist, and mind you, we don’t even know if the parents were allowed to accompany the young dancers as taking the parents along with their kids would be double the cost.

There is one other thing I need to mention as regards that dance team.

Below are a few screenshots from the videos of Johnny Young’s Talent school performances of the period when Wade Robson was part of the troupe.

My first surprise was to find that the dance team was made up of children of different ages some of whom looked to me almost like grown-ups.

And the other surprise was the fact that the outfits of the group were somewhat provocative for a team of child dancers. Consider me an old-fashioned and conservative moralist but I simply see no point in having the children dressed in so sexualized a way.

Here is a screenshot from their show in Queen street Mall in Brisbane on the 11th of September 1989 as part of The Warana Festival. This group looks like the fifteen/ sixteen year olds.

The Johnny Young Talent School,  September 11, 1989

The Johnny Young Talent School, September 11, 1989 (screenshot)

And below is a screenshot of the same group performing in Brisbaine a year later.

The Johnny Young Talent Team was mixed in age and included younger and older children

The Johnny Young Talent Team was mixed in age and included younger and older children (screenshot of June 24,1990 performance)

Considering  the scenario we are investigating here you needn’t be surprised by my emphasis on the dance group being mixed in age.

The US statistics quoted earlier says that in terms of sexual abuse older juveniles are very often a threat to younger children.

Researchers from Pennsylvania University say:

“During the course of our field research we encountered many “opportunistic customers” of children for sex.

The majority of these persons were men (75%), but a distinct minority were other juveniles (20%) and women (5%).

With the exception of the juveniles interviewed, most of these sexual exploiters of children did not indicate a sexual preference for children but, rather, said they had sex with children because “they were available”.

So for some people all that matters is that “children are available”, you see?

With regard to Robson’s dance troupe all this talk about a theoretical danger from older juveniles is purely abstract of course and it would be totally improper to assert anything here, but since in theory it was possible this risk factor still needs to be mentioned.

As to the children’s provocative outfits look at the screenshot of their performance on January 12th, 1990 (it was right on the eve of their travel to Disneyland on January 26th) where the seven-year old Robson was dancing with some girls.

Wade Robson and the Johnny Young Talent Group on January 12th, 1990

Wade Robson and the Johnny Young Talent Group on January 12th, 1990 (screenshot)

Debra Byrne mentioned above, was also a member of the Johnny Young Talent team and also found it unsettling that the 1980s were marked by the tendency of the YTT staff to make the children look more adult-like.

She says that in the 70s when she was part of the team the children on YTT were much more child-like.

Debra joined Young Talent Time (YTT) in 1971, and now finds it unsettling to look back on some of the episodes.

“If you look back at the original YTT there was a lot more child-like appearance, and unfortunately a lot of that footage was destroyed… so what we see now is of the 80s, and they did start to fluff up a lot… They were wearing a lot of make-up, 80’s hair, accessories… whereas when we were in the show the skirts were high, sure, but they weren’t trying to make us look like adults..”

However irrespective of the YTT tendency to make the children look more adult-like and provocative at the time when Robson was with that school, none of it would really matter if no cases of child sexual abuse ever took place within the walls of the company.

Unfortunately this is not the case.

At least one girl was abused on the YTT premises and this is actually what we know (and how much we don’t?). The girl was Debra Byrne, and yes, it was the Debra Byrne we have already talked about.

The man who groomed, seduced and eventually raped her was one of the employees of Johnny Young Talent Time crew who worked as the boom operator at the YTT studio. Later he was charged with statutory rape and convicted of “carnal knowledge” as Debra Byrne describes it in her autobiography book.

JOHNNY YOUNG TALENT TIME

Unlike Robson Debra Byrne was not studying at the Johnny Young Talent school but was a member of the original cast of the Johnny Young Talent Time show produced for TV.

This young talent quest show ran for 17 years from 1971 to the end of 1988 and was the core project of Lewis-Young Productions, a partnership between host Johnny Young and his friend Kevin Lewis.

The schools where Wade Robson and other children learned the art of performing were opened by Johnny Young several years later after the launch of YTT on TV and were Johnny Young’s separate project though in some association with the show.

YTT was very popular in Australia and it was a dream of every Australian boy and girl to be selected for its main cast. The age limit for the applicants was strict – as soon as the children turned 16 they had to leave the show and make room for other budding stars with a gift for singing and dancing.

It seems that many children and their parents regarded the talent schools run by Johnny Young as a sort of a preliminary step to Johnny’s YTT show and this makes me think that Wade Robson also joined the school in the hope to eventually make it to TV and join the regular cast.

The original Young Talent Time Team

The original Young Talent Time Team (Debra Byrne is sitting on the floor)

Wiki says that generations of Australian children believed that if they worked hard enough they would become a star like the kids on YTT:

Because the series ran for such a long time and featured young performers, Young Talent Time made an indelible mark on the psyche of several generations of Australian children, leading them to believe that if they tried hard enough, they too could be a ‘star’ like the kids they saw on television (Johnny Young launched talent schools in his own name in early 1980s).

Lorena Novoa, a member of the YTT show who began her career at Johnny Young’s Talent School recalls the way her dream of joining the regular cast came true. She says they went to sing and dance there after their school hours and on one happy day her gift for singing was noticed by Johnny Young himself.

“It had all happened so quickly. Six months earlier I’d enrolled at the Johnny Young Talent School. After school I’d go there to sing and dance. My dedication paid off when I sparked the interest of Young Talent Time creator, Johnny Young himself! ‘We’d love you to join the team,’ he’d said.
Now, here I was sitting backstage with the very people I’d watched on TV. I was singing for the nation on Young Talent Time, one of Australia’s biggest television shows.

<>When the TV season came to an end, we’d go on tour, performing around the country. It didn’t take long for the Young Talent Time crew to become my second family. In 1987, after three amazing years in the limelight, my stint on the show came to an end. I was too old to perform. 

‘What will I do now?’ I sobbed to Mum. I had to learn who I was without being Lorena from Young Talent Time. The following year, I was devastated when Young Talent Time was taken off the air after a 17 year run.” 

http://www.thatslife.com.au/Article/Real-Life/Real-Life-Stories/Where-are-they-now-After-Young-Talent-Time

Indeed the Johnny Young Talent Time show was known to be a successful springboard for several stars who made a lasting career in entertainment industry, and this is why it was so big a shock for everyone when at the beginning of 1989 the TV network announced that the show would not be resumed.

The Young Talent Time Team in its last episode on December 1988

The Young Talent Time Team in its last episode on December 1988

“The ‘talent quest’ aspect of YTT, which discovered many budding stars, was not new, but YTT differed from other talent quests in one crucial respect — the best young performers they discovered were offered the chance to develop their craft and career by becoming permanent members of the cast, the so-called ‘Young Talent Team’.

Over the years, dozens of kids were selected as regular performers on the show and its enormous popularity made them household names. Some stayed only briefly in the limelight, but many went on to make lasting careers in entertainment and a few even became major stars; their success is a lasting tribute to Johnny’s encouragement and guidance. Among the best known YTT discoveries are Tina Arena, Debra Byrne, Dannii Minogue, Jane Scali, Jamie Redfern, Rod Kirkham, Phillip Gould, Karen Knowles and Joey Perone.

For nearly twenty years, from 1969 to 1989, Johnny had enjoyed great success with his various enterprises, but in the late 80s and early 90s he faced a series of painful reversals that, for a while, looked like they might wreck his career and his life. The trouble began in 1989 when the Ten Network abruptly cancelled Young Talent Time, a decision that cost Johnny dearly. He had recently invested every cent he had to build his own TV studio facility to produce the show but the unexpected cancellation forced him to sell his family home to meet the debts.

http://www.milesago.com/Artists/YoungJ.htm

The problem was that the show had been struggling for ratings in its final years and finally lost to a competitor called “Hey Hey It’s Saturday”.

Interesting, but for some reason Debra Byrne thought it necessary to post on her FB the news that the long-time director of “Hey Hey It’s Saturday” was recently acquitted of raping and assaulting a 17-year old employee sometime in the 1990s. The accuser alleged that he was told that it was “all part of show business”. On her FB Debra Byrne posted this article about that case without any comment.

Whatever it was, after the YTT show lost to its competitor, the Johnny Young Talent School still functioned for some time and was later merged with another school for performance arts (Studios Entertainment School). But even while it was still operating it surely lost most of its allure to the hopeful youngsters as there was no more prospect of going on TV and turning into a star there.

This point is important to note, because now it doesn’t look like a chance occurrence that a year after that TV show was closed Robson and his mother began looking for other opportunities for themselves.

Indeed, if you connect the dots you will realize that by the time Robson went with his dance school to Disneyland in January 1990, the YTT show on TV had not been functioning already for a year and this is probably why he decided to “further pursue his talents after a dance at Disneyland sparked his interest in the US” as his official website says.

As a side note let me say that in the context of Robson’s present claims this “sparked interest” wording sounds somewhat surprising as it clearly shows that it was Robson’s own intention and wish to move to America and Michael Jackson was simply a convenient connection for making these plans possible.

However let us go back to Debra Byrne and see what happened to her when she was with the YTT.

THE CASE OF DEBRA BYRNE

In her autobiography book published in 2006 Debra Byrne recalls that it was on YTT that she was introduced to sex, drugs and alcohol.

Debra Byrne on YTT

Debra Byrne on YTT

From 24 October 2006, weekly magazine New Idea featured articles on Byrne’s autobiography, Not Quite Ripe, which alleged that from the age of 12 she was introduced to sex, drugs and alcohol on Young Talent Time.

The claims were vigorously denied by Young. He stated that Byrne was already 14 when she started and that drugs were not available on set. “Any drug-taking Debra did, she certainly didn’t do it on our show.” He said no-one on the show was aware of her affair with “Michael”, a boom operator ten years her senior.

Johnny Young said that he was always conscious of a duty of care to the children working on Young Talent Time and was adamant he didn’t know anything. I fully believe him, however it doesn’t make things easier for anyone – whether he knew or didn’t know, the girl was still seduced, raped and engaged in an ongoing sexual relationship with someone who was part of his crew.

And if there was a child abuser on the YTT show no one can guarantee that there were none among the staff of the YTT school, where the five or six-year old Robson was performing and who he was travelling with.

If it happened once it could happen twice, and same as Johnny Young didn’t know about Debra’s abuse he could be unaware of other similar occurrences too.

Johnny Young’s reaction to what Debra Byrne said about the situation with sex, drug and alcohol on the set was an extremely angry one:

“Johnny Young’s first reaction to the magazine story was one of absolute anger and then fear about what the story would do to the careers of the people running his talent schools and what parents, who entrust their children into the care of the teachers at those schools, would think”.

His reply to Debra was formal, businesslike and surprisingly harsh considering that the girl was really abused by one of his employees and she didn’t do anything to Young or demand of him except just mentioning that episode in her autobiography book.

Johnny Young focused on the damage her revelations could do to his business and threatened to sue the magazine that published excerpts from her book, especially since the magazine misinterpreted and exaggerated the story (as is usual with the media).  By the time of that publication Young had opened a new Johnny Young Talent school and the things that concerned him most were the enrolment figures and his ratings on the radio.

Debra Byrne (left), Johnny Young (center)

Debra Byrne is on the left

Even despite what happened to Debra Johnny Young claimed that the duty of care for children entrusted to him was 100 per cent:

Young said he was always conscious of a duty of care to the children working on Young Talent Time.

“We had security people everywhere and we were very aware we were dealing with children,” Young said.

“Our duty of care was 100 per cent when those children were in our care, but those children were not in our care 24 hours a day.

“They were in our care for three to four hours a day after school and on Saturdays they were delivered by their parents to Channel 10 and they rehearsed and at 6.30pm we would do the show.”

<>”I wanted to do one story where I could say `this is what’s happened to me without any care for 20 years of hard work – probably the most important thing I’ve done in my career – tarnished with lies’.

“Whether I sue them or not will be a business decision I’ll have to make depending on whether the kids re-enrol in the school and how my ratings go on the radio because people may not want to listen to me any more if they believe that crap.”

 http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/johnny-young-breaks-silence-video/story-e6frg13u-1111112790466?nk=fc69bdae54335af700f8016967e7eead

Debra replied to Johnny Young with posts on her FB page and it is here where the story becomes really interesting. In her posts she provides the unique details of the way things were organized at YTT and of the humiliation she had to go through when her abuse was uncovered as well as the treatment she, a real victim of abuse, was getting from the YTT people:

  • “I am not afraid of being taken to court I am afraid of never having a day where I can speak in court of what I know and what happened and who it happened with. I have been threatened and told I am crazy a fake and most horridly, responsible for the abuse.”
  • Johnny Young states there was security for us. This is untrue. There were security guards at Channel 0 but they were not employed to look after the children and they were not employed by Lewis Young Productions.”
  • “I was groomed, seduced and eventually raped and emotionally manipulated by Michael Bain Outtrim the boom operator on YTT.” 
  • “…the relationship between myself and Michael Bain Outtrim who was later charged and convicted with carnal knowledge, began in the first year of YTT. At the end of that year I had already been sexually assaulted. Caravan Holiday was made in 1972. I was still 14 years old. In 1972 I attended sessions for counselling at the children’s court building which was on Batman Avenue. When the court case took place I was 15 years and Lewis Young productions employed a lawyer to have the case closed on the day.”  
  • “he was employed to ensure the case was heard in a closed court. my mother and I did not know that was going to occur until the morning we arrived at court. the case was heard in a closed court.”
  • “I was forced to be a witness for the police as the man was charged and later convicted. It has been said that I have accused persons working on YTT they should have been looking out for the children on the show.  Well that’s absolutely true. How did a man speak with a young girl enough to groom and seduce.? It took months. We met in vacant control rooms. My parents were not there to watch out for me. The parents were not in the studios or rehearsals or taping of shows. So who’s job was it to look after the children?
  • Latest from Johnny Young is I am a low life.
  • I am accused of harassing his family and having no morals.
  • Dale Evans who worked at Channel 0 and knew Michael Outtrim has written on FB that Michael who she says LOVED me was charged and convicted and his life was ruined and so what do I want. I did not choose to ruin his life. He took that path when he first second third fourth fifth time attempted to have sex with me until he raped me and then after which made promises of love and marriage and when he was caught and charged pleaded not guilty took my love letters and poems and cards and scarf to the court house as evidence of my willingness.
  • You say <>that I was a willing participant in all things including Michael Outtrim. And that I should forgive myself for what I was and did. I was 14 15 years Michael was 24 and he would after trying to have intercourse with me tell me that I was frigid cold and that I didn’t love him. I didn’t know what frigid meant but what I did know is that each time he tried it hurt a lot. I wasn’t so willing Dale. 

https://www.facebook.com/debra.a.byrne/posts/10153158842631982?fref=nf

  • Maybe I was 13 when I started rehearsing for the show, not 12, but I was very, very young and the fact is I was underage and having a sexual relationship with a crew member and the court case that followed was extremely harrowing.
  • The police told me that the Channel 0 executives believed I was nothing but a little moll who had seduced Michael. Michael’s solicitor said that Michael wasn’t the only man I was having sex with, he asked me if I had used tampons before I had sex with Michael . . . tears were streaming down my face, I keep swallowing and gagging on my words. . .

http://www.couriermail.com.au/archive/news/debra-byrne/story-e6frep2o-1111112470176?nk=fc69bdae54335af700f8016967e7eead

When all of it was happening no one yet knew that Debra had earlier been abused by her grandfather – she revealed it only in her book published many years later. Back in 1972 she was simply one of the many hopeful and innocent youngsters like everyone else on that show. And she didn’t willingly fall into that boom operator’s arms – it was a classical modus operandi of every pedophile that included brainwashing the girl and grooming and seducing her that took months.

Surprisingly, but what our poor Robson “didn’t understand” until the age of 30 this young girl already knew when she was fifteen. And this in spite of the fact that she was also confusing the abuse with “love” and was even attached to her abuser.

Occasionally it seemed to me that Robson used Debra Byrne’s 2006 book as a blueprint for his claims – when, for example, the molester was persuading her that it was “love”. However even here her behavior had a decided difference from Robson’s, because even despite all her confusion and “love” for the guy it didn’t stop the fifteen year old girl from telling the truth to the police — though it cost her a torrent of tears streaming down her face and lots of humiliation and ridicule from the company’s executives.

And please note that this girl had to break ice by her statements and persuade everyone that she was telling the truth – in contrast to Robson for whom nothing could be easier than testifying against Jackson. Back in 2005 the prosecution, media and the public didn’t need any persuasion as everyone was actually expecting accusations and even wanted Robson to confirm what they thought they knew about Jackson anyway.

And is it possible to imagine the stuttering and sobbing Debra defending her molester in court and sounding off-hand and easy as Robson was? And even cracking jokes like he did at the 2005 trial?

Absolutely not and this is how you know a difference between a true victim and a fake one.

In Debra’s case the YTT production company and its bosses were indeed responsible for their employee and the children in their care, and this again is in stark contrast with Robson who is now shaking for money those who could not exercise any control over the situation, even if there had been anything to control.

As to our supposition that Robson was abused by someone else when he was a very small kid, and this is why he didn’t realize what happened to him, and now he is covering up for this fact by making false claims against the innocent man now that we know how security was organized at the YTT venues and that a person who was supposed to help children was actually abusing them, the chances that something of the kind could happen to Robson are no longer as abstract as they initially looked.

And this becomes all the more true when we learn that Debra Byrne was sexually assaulted again and it again happened at one of the YTT venues.

The incident took place when after the trial Debra resumed her role on the TV show. The public didn’t know of her abuse as the case was heard in a closed court and the audience would have been perplexed if she had disappeared from the show without any explanation.

But for the YTT insiders Debra was obviously “damaged goods” and one of their crew took advantage of her again. Though this assault is only an alleged one, there is no reason for us not to believe Debra Byrne – she is a well-known Australian personality and she wouldn’t risk her reputation by telling fictional tales.

ABUSED AGAIN

In 2014 Debra Byrne told more about her work with YTT and revealed that when she was making a film “Caravan Holiday” together with other YTT young performers she was digitally raped in a swimming pool by one of the crew.

She also referenced another incident which allegedly took place while she and Johnny Young were filming a Red Tulip Chocolates commercial but didn’t elaborate on what happened in that studio.

Her post on FB read:

 Debra Byrne about a swimming pool incident

  • Hello to you all and I hope that you will be able and willing to help me. [Michael Outtrim] was charged and convicted of carnal knowledge. I was the girl he abused. I was on young talent time and he was the boom operator on the show. He pleaded not guilty but after a horrendous experience of virgin testing and giving detailed sexual evidence at a very young age the court case was adjourned. [Outtrim] then pleaded guilty and took along with him the priest who spoke on Sundays mornings television from channel O. He was convicted and given 12 months good behavior. After that horrid experience I continued on with my part in YTT later in the summer the YTT team took part in the filming of Caravan Holiday… the cameraman on that film was [name withheld] after a days filming we the YTT and crew were swimming in a pool.  I don’t recall where the pool was but while I was in the pool [name withheld] swam up to me and digitally raped me. I was a very disturbed girl and was abused I believe because I was considered fair game. I am now asking if anyone can remember being in one of the smaller studios at channel O [name withheld] and I were filming a commercial for red Tulip Chocolates for a Easter show. I remember the sound man was a very short man and a friend of [name withheld] there were more than two people in the studio. If this jogs anyone’s memory and you are comfortable to speak with me about what took place in the studio please me.  Blessings, Debra Byrne

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2715260/Former-child-star-Debra-Byrne-launches-Facebook-campaign.html

With the help of her YTT friends Debra seemed to find the name of the person responsible for her new sexual assault. Her cryptic notes on FB said:

  • “His name was Barry but is now Barrie”
  • “thank you I have confirmation of Barrie Windley working with Johnny Young at Television house. can anyone else remember him there?
  • “just a little more info regarding Barrie Windley I am trying to locate him. I am told he worked with Johnny Young during the 80’s at Television House Lennox st Richmond.”

The notes were accompanied by a photo of Barrie Windley who turned out to be a middle-aged man pictured on stage close to a small boy with a microphone in his hands.

Debra Byrne about Barrie

Debra Byrne found her offender’s name (screenshot from her FB)

Judging by the picture this person definitely worked with the children who performed on stage and had a contact with many of them.

It seems that Debra’s little investigation took her nowhere however this is not the point.

The point is that all of the above portrays a horrendous atmosphere of loose and anything-is-allowed attitude towards children that were engaged in show business at least back in the 1980s.

This monstrous atmosphere reigned on TV and in movie film studios and evidently at other venues where children were performing, most probably including schools like Robson’s too.

And it did not necessarily concern only YTT. It seems that this atmosphere was everywhere (remember the allegations about the “Hey Hey It’s Saturday” boss?) and the fact that child abuse was so wide-spread at the time is the real reason why it happened to Debra again and again. The entertainment business involving children attracted too many perverts who knew that kids were an easy target and no one would really listen to them if they complained.

So are there any questions now whether sexual abuse could happen to young Robson too? I have no doubt whatsoever that at least the chance for it was there.

If you are not yet convinced let us have a look at another case – that of Jamie Redfern who was another YTT member and who was by the way also filmed in that 1972 Caravan Holiday YTT movie on whose premises Debra Byrne was sexually assaulted.

JAMIE REDFERN

Jamie Redfern was 14 when he joined the YTT show original cast. The boy had a great voice and was a huge success with the Australian audience.

He was called “the Australian King of Pop”,  “a little boy with a big voice” and even had a separate “Jamie Redfern Show” with Johnny Young as a host and other YTT cast that sold a number of concerts at Melbourne’s Festival Hall.

What happened to Jamie Redfern is that after ten months with YTT he was taken on a long tour over the US by an admirer who was no other than Liberace.

Jamie Redfern and Liberace

Jamie Redfern and Liberace

Jamie Redfern’s success in the US was also a smashing one, but when he returned to Australia after a 16-months long tour with Liberace his career suddenly came to a halt.

There is no apparent reason for so sudden a change and I am not inclined to take seriously the information in one source that says that “his career ground to a halt after a dispute over a recording contract”.

This boy had too great a talent to be so easily rejected by the entertainment industry, especially after the rave reviews of his performances in the US.

Here he is singing “I’m your little boy”:

I must have become too nervous by now about the atmosphere surrounding those boys and girls back in the 80s and am probably imagining things, but it gives me a shudder to think that two years before Liberace took the 16-year old Scott Thorson into his home and a week later entered into a relationship with him (according to Thorson), Liberace also freely picked for himself another 15-year old and toured with him for 16 months.

The Australian Broadcasting Commission interview with Johnny Young showed how the naïve YTT staff was thrilled by this exclusive opportunity for their protégé. They most probably didn’t know of Liberace’s ways or were too trustful of others, but whichever way it was it did put the young boy at a risk of being abused:

JOHNNY YOUNG: He came in, he was only 13, 14 or something, and, er, what a voice. He’d could just stand there and sing a song without any accompaniment. You know, the true boy soprano with a really, really big powerful voice.

MARIE-CLAIRE WOLLASTON: Jamie’s star was rising fast. He was having hit after hit in the charts, wooing audiences and picking up nearly as many awards as he had fans. But it was when he was presented the King of Pop award by Liberace that his life changed forever.

LIBERACE: Incidentally, Johnny, I’ve been watching the show and I’ve enjoyed all the performers who have been on and that little boy, that Jamie, he’s fantastic. He really… I’d like to take him back to the States.

JOHNNY YOUNG: I thought he was only joking and, a few days later, we got a call from Seymour Heller who’s a delightful man who was also managing Shirley MacLaine and Debbie Reynolds and a whole bunch of other people in America. He rang us and said, “Look, we really would like to take him to America and have him as a special guest on Liberace’s program.”

http://www.abc.net.au/dimensions/dimensions_people/Transcripts/s817807.htm

Jamie Redfern is not giving much comment on Liberace and just noted that “there were rumors at the time” which he clearly doesn’t like to dwell on. Now he is a happily married man with two daughters who is running the Academy of Dance and Acting in Melbourne and hosts his own national television show “Jamie Redfern’s Superkids” which airs weekly on the Australian TV.

But what Jamie Redfern does admit is that he is battling depression, same as some other YTT child stars.

As it happens, depression has left it’s indelible mark on me in ways I could never have imagined, and my family and I continue to deal with it’s accursed and seemingly relentless impact on our lives on a “one day at a time” basis. 

<>I know some people like that, and I bet you do too. A number of my Young Talent Time brothers and sisters fight depression – although watch them perform live and I can bet you couldn’t tell which of them it is. 

Oh, and by the way, … yes, I’m a battler too ! 

http://www.tooraktimes.com.au/content.php/2682-Liberace-as-controversial-as-ever-!

Depression is not necessarily connected with the abuse in one’s childhood and may easily be the result of frustrated childhood hopes, a decline in the career and a myriad other reasons (which are equally true for Robson).

But when Robson is now complaining of depression and links it to some sexual abuse, let us first note that he is not the only one to have it – several other child stars from exactly the same surrounding are suffering from it too. And secondly, if sex abuse is the real reason for his depression the trail is definitely taking us back to his childhood years in Australia for reasons explained above.

Johnny Young doesn’t seem to be engaged in any of it and there were never any allegations against him personally. His company and entertainment business involving children attracted too many perverts at the time and it was difficult to know who was up to what there. So if there was any guilt on John Young’s part, it looks like it was too much trust in the wrong people and too much focus on his business being a success, with everything else being a side matter.

And if it wasn’t just too much trust how else can we explain that after Jamie Redfern’s time with Liberace the YTT staff thought of nothing better than offer him another hopeful teenager?

This second boy was Dennis Walter who was 15-years old and had a uniquely deep baritone unusual for his age. Listen to him here (audio only): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r0n75OoYxQ).

The YTT staff apparently meant well and suggested that Liberace had a look at Dennis Walter after Jamie Redfern returned from America.

“Set to follow in the footsteps of boy wonder Jamie Redfern, Walter was the second Young Talent Time discovery destined for international greatness under the watch of Liberace. But while Redfern went on to US television and touring with rave reviews, for Walter the outcome was another story. 

“Jamie’s time was coming to an end and Liberace was touring Australia, so it was suggested by the Young Talent Time people, that he have a look at me and hear my voice. It was the novelty of the skinny 15 year old with the big deep voice,” said Walter.

“There were about 20 people and he listened to me sing and there was all this excitement about me going to the States.”

http://www.tvtonight.com.au/2014/06/from-young-talent-time-to-liberace.html

Liberace did indeed choose Dennis as his second companion for performing in the US, however something went wrong with that project – after the initial joint rehearsal with Liberace and “some material organized” the boy was taken to the US where Liberace went on a tour but the boy stayed all alone. Liberace’s manager (a very nice person as they say) invited him to his home on one occasion but that was it – Dennis Walter never met Liberace again and returned to Australia where he pursued his career of a singer for 40 years ever since.

The elation of the YTT staff about their young protégés going to the US with the great Liberace shows that they evidently didn’t know of the performer’s succession of underage male sexual partners which is no secret to anyone now. But irrespective of their good intentions those boys were put at a risk, and no one can guarantee that something of the kind didn’t happen to the very young Robson wonder kid.

As a final word to this saga let me tell you that after the YTT show was closed the gay issue had an unexpected and a totally ridiculous follow-up. Robson had already left for the US by then, but the story of Johnny Young’s Talent Time would be totally incomplete if we didn’t mention this episode.

“IS HE A PEDOPHILE?”

At the beginning of the 1990s Terry Higgins who was a long-time Young Talent Time studio director was diagnosed with AIDS. The YTT show had already been closed by then and Johnny Young was going through a time of big trouble – he had lost his business, family house and even his marriage. However Terry was a friend of his and when he was diagnosed with AIDS Johnny Young financially supported him. And when Terry sought some miracle cure “ozone therapy” in the Philippines Johnny followed him there.

There were gay and non-gay patients at the clinic and Johnny Young stayed there for 12 months until one day the Philippines authorities raided them. It turned out that the clinic had been run without a permit and as soon as the police appeared all the staff including doctors and nurses vanished within moments. The police arrested Young as the most visible target and threw him into a military prison on charges that he was running an illegal AIDS clinic.

Subsequently all charges were dropped, but Young’s public image was damaged by media coverage of rumors regarding his sexuality. Soon after Johnny Young and his friend returned to Australia Terry Higgins died and besides the shock of his friend’s death Johnny Young was devastated to learn that his own reputation had been ruined.

He explained it on the Australian TV program in 2000:

JOHNNY: Then when I came back it even got worse. Because, and it didn’t occur to me at the time… It’s like “well Johnny Young does this programme with children. What’s he doing in an AIDS Clinic?” was the thought, right, and it raises thoughts in people’s heads. “What is he.. gay.. Why has he got a gay friend?” You know he was a friend. The fact that he was gay has nothing to do with it. I’ve got lots of gay friends and Irish friends, and Jewish friends and Catholic friends and all sorts of friends. But that was the toughest part. 

LISA HOWES (YTT music coordinator): There were always rumours and stories about John because no one could ever believe that he was ah as sweet and as flawless as he appeared. And of course he wasn’t. Of course he had flaws. And I know all the years that I worked with the show and afterwards there were lots of rumours about. “Well any grown man that spends so much time with young children must have a problem there.” I think that 50% of the audience that regularly watched the show watched it because they loved him. I think 50% of the audience that regularly watched the show loved to watch it because they hated him.

MARY REILLY: I remember one of the guys in the group saying when he returned at the airport. He had cameras shoved in his face and reporters screaming at him, you know. “Is John Young Gay? Is he a paedophile?” It just went into absolute hysteria.

JOHNNY: This guy saw me and he said “that’s Johnny Young.. get the kids out of here. I don’t want to be in the same place as he is.” Now that just devastated me. It just completely devastated me. I couldn’t believe it. It knocked me about. I couldn’t talk to people for days. I couldn’t believe it had got to that. And then I thought, well how do I defend this. Well you can’t. You know if I defend it, it’s like ‘though protesteth too much.’ If I’ve ever been inappropriate with a juvenile, with a younger person, don’t you think they would have come out of the woodwork by now to get their lousy hundred thousand dollars off the media for the expose. But there’s nothing to expose.

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/transcripts/s97797.htm

Though Johnny Young surely has his own flaws the ungrounded accusations thrown at him in the 90s made me side with him at the last moment. After seeing what has been done to MJ, we know that nothing can be worse than unjust allegations against the innocent.

Johnny Young is right – there is nothing to expose about him.  He is absolutely not a child abuser and his biggest flaw as I’ve said seems to be too much trust in the wrong people, and this is probably the biggest reason why all these misfortunes fell on him and the children in his care.

He has learned his lesson hard and it took him much time to revive his reputation and career. His current business has returned to its former success – a new Johnny Young Talent School has been established and in 2012 the Australian television revived his YTT show with a new cast and host to look for new talent among Australian children.

And in 2013 Johnny Young’s Talent School visited Disneyland again…

CONCLUSIONS

If we go back to Robson and reply to the question whether he could be really abused in his early years during his time with the YTT school, after all we have heard about this business an honest answer would be YES, HE COULD. Considering his surrounding and all the precedents we’ve learned of, the sexual abuse of the small boy while he was in Australia cannot be absolutely ruled out.

In addition some other conclusions can be made here.

Robson decided to leave Australia not so much due to Michael Jackson. A much more probable reason for his decision was the closure of the YTT show, the indefinite future of his dance school and no more publicity opportunities for Robson owing to Johnny Young’s own misfortunes. Robson’s mother no longer saw any prospects for her son on the Australian TV and local entertainment industry and this is why both decided to try their luck in the US.

So when the seven of them travelled to America in 1990 it was a sort of a reconnaissance trip and this is why they stayed in the US for almost a month. Michael Jackson was sought after also for purely practical reasons.

At least a year prior to their September 1991 move Joy’s relations with her husband deteriorated and when they finally decided to part the younger children followed the mother to the US, while their older brother stayed with the father. We can very well guess that the plan to go to the US was supported by Joy’s parents (with whom they travelled to the US) but was not supported by the relatives on the father’s side who thought it “insane” as Wade Robson admitted.

And Michael absolutely didn’t insist on their coming to the US. Prior to their move they hadn’t seen each other for a year but when the final decision was taken he didn’t leave them alone, assisted them in their relocation and helped to get some foothold in America.

And now Robson is paying Michael back by placing on him the responsibility for his sexual abuse which judging by his own story could happen to him only at a very early age (if ever at all) and at the hands of another person.

Michael Jackson is an easy target and Robson is taking advantage of it now. By accusing the real perpetrator Robson can gain nothing except negative publicity and the recollections that hurt, however by accusing the MJ Estate he can grab a big prize – if luck is on his side – and get even with them for refusing him a lucrative job on the Immortal and other MJ projects.

And isn’t it a marvel that all these conclusions arise from the way Robson is telling his story himself?

AFTERWORD

What I would also like people to realize is that the situation with Robson may turn out to be more complex than we think it to be.

The choice is not necessarily between “he was abused and is telling the truth” and “he was not abused and is telling a lie”. There might be a combination of it – he could be abused, but is lying that it was MJ.

Someone could have paid him to place the guilt of other(s) on an innocent person.

39 Comments leave one →
  1. Kae-Leah permalink
    July 3, 2017 4:36 pm

    I’ve got an ex-friend who thinks something may have been going on between MJ and Wade because of a part in the trial transcripts where Joy Robson admitted that Michael called her, sometimes in the middle of the night, and that there were “occasions when she’d walk her son across the street”, which she takes to basically mean sometimes she’d deliver Wade to him and they’d go straight into bed in the middle of the night 😦 Helena, you’re the expert. How would you rebut that argument? She seems to be reaching to me.

    Like

  2. Coup De Grace permalink
    January 7, 2017 11:58 pm

    Apparently Wade tried to publish a book about his so called sexual abuse. If this doesn’t wake contractors, nothing will.

    Like

  3. November 14, 2016 3:15 pm

    “do you guys have an article dedicated to the alarm system argument that Michael apparently only had one in his room specifically to alert him of people approaching his room?”

    No, we don’t. After so many people describing their free access to Michael’s room at any time of day and night (McCulkin’s father waking them up early in the morning, for example) I think this point isn’t even worth discussing.

    Like

  4. Coup De Grace permalink
    November 14, 2016 2:37 pm

    This doesn’t correspond with this particular thread, but do you guys have an article dedicated to the alarm system argument that Michael apparently only had one in his room specifically to alert him of people approaching his room? Detractors occasionally use this as an argument that he wanted to be alerted of anyone approaching while he was with children. What is the full nature and context of that?

    Like

  5. November 13, 2016 6:37 pm

    “I am struggling to understand why this guy and the other one are doing this now. Is it just for money or something else?” – Sarah Thompson

    Sarah, the motives could be a hundred. End of career and the need for money in the first place. Taking offense at the Estate for not giving the job and the desire to take revenge. An attempt to get some compensation for the weeks/years/decades of explaining that Michael never touched him and having to rebuff constant jokes from the media and everyone around. This constant media ridicule was indeed extremely painful to all his friends and for many years too, and this problem should not be underestimated.

    To a certain extent Robson is indeed a victim – only not of Michael, but of the witch hunt Michael had to endure. And Robson’s probable train of thought is: Yes, Michael suffered a lot, but at least he earned a lot of money and his Estate is now getting millions. And what do I have? Why did I have to suffer? I was always his friend and always stood by him, and what good did my honesty and uprightness give me? They even refused me the job I so much counted on! If I had followed Jordan Chandler’s steps I would have been a millionaire now….

    In short, he is a typical Judah. Judah also believed in Christ and was one of his disciples, but only until the moment the persecution of Christ began. He was dreaming of being close to the new King and his throne, but his whole world collapsed in disappointment when he realized that the only thing that awaited him was the need to share suffering with his teacher. Thirty silvers were much better – he could buy a whole field for that money.

    A very sad occurrence, but not the first and not the last time, I am afraid.

    As to the possibility that Robson was indeed abused – only by someone different – this cannot be ruled out and I tend to think that he was. When he was a small boy he was heavily engaged in entertainment industry in Australia and was touring all its major cities with his dance troupe. One of the girls was abused by the company’s long-time employee, and there could be many more victims – including Robson.

    All these circumstances taken together may explain why he is so messed up. Add to it the bipolar problem he could inherit from his father and you have a perfect illustration of a very neurotic man.

    But whether neurotic or not, some things are simply not done. Robson wants to follow Judah’s steps and wishes to be remembered as such. Well, it’s his (and now Safechuck’s) choice.

    Like

  6. October 23, 2016 10:51 am

    SarahThomson, I found your post most interesting and also plausible..There are a few things
    I very much would like to have clarified. Jordan was taken ,allegedly, to NYC to see this known specilist in child custody cases among other childhood poblems (I presume as he was specialized in child-adol. psychiatry) He apparently assumed Jordan was “alienated ” from his father as Evan was given custody.This seems a bit strange as according to Victor Guitirrez he cooperated with his, Jordans diary , or something to that effect. None of this sc
    cooperation is necessarily true.There is no-way he flew or travelled from LA to JFK & NYC
    on his own. One or both parents must have accompanied him and if so Dr, Gardener would
    also have interviewed parent(s).Once in his fathers, Evans care the latter severely hit him on the head with a dumb bell, why was Evan not seen By appropriate child welfare agency for childabuse?.And whichever parent accompanied him to see Dr. Gardener must have had some influence on the report that followed this inerview (if it really occurred).That interview as reported on this blog is full of contradictory statements.-Basically I believe that during this whole project Jordan became not only confused but somehow disgusted By all his parental persons, all 3 or 4 of them that he just wanted to absent himself from this macabre mess.
    And, did Dr. Gardener know that Evan was bipolar and apparently in or well on his way into a psychotic episode? I have never read that Evan would have attended appropriate therapy for himself.I say this because with meds and therapy bipolars can be quite functional, mostly anyway.His, Jordans, mother was not a neutral person either.Neverland staff claimed she
    acteds if the reigning lady of the Estate.Not to speak about her feelings for MJ.

    Like

  7. Sarah Thompson permalink
    October 22, 2016 5:04 am

    I am going to upset some people with this theory, I believe in MJ’s innocence, this is about Wade. It was the comment he made about ‘he enjoyed it and felt ashamed of himself’ Just so noone starts calling me a victim blamer I have been molested and raped in my past, as young as 14. I am also autistic and even though I was a bit slow with things growing up and naive even I knew it was abuse. So if I thought MJ was really guilty I would never defend him fan or not. I grew up around some strange people and some other abused teenagers whose abuse started much younger as children and they all knew what was done to them and were badly effected. 2 boys I knew one was my first boyfriend confided in me he had been raped as a boy and felt ashamed that when he hit puberty early… he began fantasising about other boys and men, aswell as girls. And he started to use drugs by age 12. he was messed up badly. He invented elborate sexual fantasies about people, mostly celebrities and I have known other teenage boys and even young men who had a similar childhood who also did that.
    Perhaps a way to cope or normalise what they went through for their own sanity. I am not always good at explaining but I hope you see what I am getting at here? Might be worth a mention in Wades case. For example… if a grown man ‘had’ been in love with or fantasising about another man from a young age and was also close to him, and if he was also abused as a young boy or not… perhaps as he was older, got married had a wife and a child he could feel ashamed of this even get depressed over it and confused to his own feelings and sexuality, and after being through this mess with the abuse allegations against MJ, being exposed to the court case and all the details… concocted this allegation as a way to in his way shift the guilt from himself and blame MJ for it? It is just a possibility that I thought of.
    And it was not uncommon for people to have a crush on MJ… there are 12 year old girls on youtube making tribute videos to him even now saying how ‘sexy he was. Even men passed out at his concerts. I do not want to acuse wade of this, because I don’t know, but since he will acuse MJ who is passed on and cannot defend himself, and this seems so absurd and wrong to his fans I am struggling to understand why this guy and the other one are doing this now. Is it just for money or something else? It would explain his nervous breakdowns. This whole thing just makes no sense at all and I hope it will be over soon.

    Like

  8. October 2, 2015 1:03 pm

    “Apparently, Robson has a won a legal battle” – newrodrigo

    No, he hasn’t, but the case was allowed to proceed to its next stage. According to Ivy of DailyMichael blog “Judge is required to accept all the claims as true for the purposes of demurrer and is only determining if there is a legal basis for a lawsuit. Furthermore in demurrer stage the defendants (Estate in this instance) cannot bring any evidence or witnesses. They could only argue against Robson’s claims using the law and the precedent cases.”

    So at this stage the judge was required to look at the plaintiff’s allegations favorably and was to rule solely on the technical side of the matter – whether it is legally correct to file a lawsuit. Well, he ruled that the case could go to the next stage – this next stage requires discovery of facts and collection of information to support the claim. DailyMichael is writing about it:

    Robson civil case demurrer ruling document : http://www.scribd.com/doc/283138843/Robson-Demurrer-Ruling

    On September 21, 2015 after 2 months of waiting Judge ruled on MJ Estate’s demurrer for Robson’s civil case. Estate’s demurrer was overruled, this means Robson’s claim will proceed to the next phase of summary judgment.

    In his civil case Robson has sued two of MJ’s companies – MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures. According to the law, a person can bring a childhood sexual abuse case until their 26th birthday. However there is an exception. This exception allows lawsuit against third party non perpetrators (in this instance MJ Companies) if they knew or had a reason to know about the unlawful sexual conduct of their employee/ representative/agent (MJ) and failed to take reasonable steps to prevent it.

    Robson was over 26 years old when he filed his lawsuit and he has been claiming this exception. Estate was arguing against it. The demurrer has been mainly about statute of limitations.

    Demurrer can be explained as “even if the facts alleged in the complaint were true, there is no legal basis for a lawsuit”. In other words Judge is required to accept all the claims as true for the purposes of demurrer and is only determining if there is a legal basis for a lawsuit. Furthermore in demurrer stage the defendants (Estate in this instance) cannot bring any evidence or witnesses. They could only argue against Robson’s claims using the law and the precedent cases.

    Judge explains nature of demurrers in his ruling.

    — “As the parties are well aware, on a demurrer, the court must construe all allegations of the complaint liberally and allow all reasonable inferences and implications in favor of plaintiff

    Overall all Robson needed to do was to allege something more than boilerplate [“boilerplate” is anything standard]. Judge decided that Robson alleged sufficient facts of a business environment between himself and MJ Companies. This is a fact. We all know that Robson (and his mother) was employed by MJJ Productions and MJJ Productions sponsored Robson’s work visa to USA. Given there is indeed a business relationship and given the judge needs to accept Robson’s claims as true for demurrer purposes, judge overruled Estate’s demurrer.

    However this doesn’t mean Robson’s claims have any merit. To the contrary judge repeatedly wrote in order to determine if those claims are true or not there needs to be “factual determination in a proceeding beyond demurrer.” (Note: What judge refers as “ultimate fact” or “some facts” on his ruling are Robson’s claims from third amended complaint [TAC]).

    — “Plaintiff has alleged the ultimate fact defendants had the ability to control Michael Jackson. Plaintiff’s allegations are more than mere boilerplate because plaintiff has alleged some facts demonstrating certain individuals within defendants (Norma Staikos) had “some control” and authority beyond that of Michael Jackson. The extent of the control and authority – and whether it satisfies this third element of section 340.1, subdivision (b) (2) requires a factual determination in a proceeding beyond a demurrer”

    In other words both sides need to present their evidence, witnesses etc. to determine if these claims have any merit at all and if it can satisfy the exception conditions. In order to do that discovery, depositions of witnesses and experts have to be completed and the dismissal issue will get revisited at summary judgment.

    Robson supporters will see this ruling as a victory; personally I see it as expected. For example Robson claimed Norma Staikos had some power over MJ. Given the judge needed to accept Robson’s claims as true for the purpose of demurrer and Estate can’t bring any counter evidence during demurrer , some fans (including me) expected this to survive demurrer, discovery happen, reconsidered during summary judgment based on evidence. This is exactly what the Judge wrote in his ruling (as it can be seen in the above screenshot)

    Also please be aware if anyone claims this case is “definitely / absolutely” going to trial, they would be wrong. There are several steps and the very important summary judgment hurdle before this case comes anywhere near to going to trial. It’s not over yet.

    So what’s next? Most probably it would start with scheduling, determining deadlines for discovery, depositions and so on. Even a trial date can be set tentatively – but again it doesn’t mean it would go to trial for sure. If they haven’t already done so, parties will work on a protective order to be able to keep discovery, depositions as confidential. Discovery disputes are also pretty common. Overall we probably won’t hear much until it is time for summary judgment and that would be several months away.

    Note: Case summary system also shows that judge granted Estate’s demurrer for Safechuck’s probate case – meaning it got dismissed. Safechuck also has a civil case fild against MJ companies but he doesn’t have as strong business relationship with MJ Companies as Robson.

    Current status of Robson & Safechuck cases:

    Robson probate claim got dismissed.
    Safechuck probate claim got dismissed.
    Robson civil case survived demurrer and proceed to discovery & summary judgment phase.
    Safechuck civil case recently started. Estate is expected to file a demurrer.
    http://dailymichael.com/lawsuits/robson-v-estate/311-robson-civil-case-demurrer-ruling

    Like

  9. September 30, 2015 6:33 pm

    Apparently, Robson has a won a legal battle, and it has to do with the parties associated with Michael that brought him and with his family over from Australia. Pointing the finger at them is exactly what he wanted from the beginning, so this is a downer.

    http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/michael-jackson-sex-abuse-victim-wade-robson-legal-victory/

    Like

  10. Suze permalink
    August 1, 2015 6:57 am

    Thank you for your answer and clear it out. It makes sense for me..

    Like

  11. July 31, 2015 3:16 pm

    “I asked all these 4 questions because these MJ haters used it as disturbing and their “proof”. I just found it weird on why Michael would stand beside his half naked nephew with sigh of his pubes. That part confuses me plus the kissing knockers which looked like two boys, but maybe I am overthinking.” – Suze

    Strange, but though I come from a country with most conservative traditions nothing confuses me, especially since the picture of half-naked Taj Jackson was not even used. It was clearly meant for the screaming fans of the 3T handsome boys but was eventually replaced by a much more restrained photo for the album cover.

    When we listen to what MJ’s haters say one could imagine that they are the people of highly puritan morals. Have they ever seen the covers of glossy magazines which are on sale on every corner? Or today’s music videos where the butt is taking half the screen?

    If they haven’t I’ve just picked a couple of ads for them to make them familiar with today’s culture.

    Don’t know what is being advertized here:
    And this is supposed to be an ad for eye wear (from a certain Tom Ford):
    And this is the favorite butt theme (for advertising chewing gum, of course):

    I am no longer surprised by anything. My only surprise is that MJ’s haters constantly feel confused about everything Michael ever did or possess. They had better look around themselves to make a check of the reality they are living in.

    As to that kisser knocker let the haters think about it whatever their imagination suggests them. The 70 policemen who raided Neverland on several occasions and the formidable Tom Sneddon thought nothing of it though they naturally scrutinized it, but if MJ haters are still confused about it let them be.

    To me it looks like a somewhat sentimental knocker promoting the concept of love and placed on a door of a miniature castle in the center of the amusement park in full view of everybody. As everything else in Neverland it was built following some favourite children’s Disney cartoon, movie or fairy tale. And my imagination tells me that it is the castle of the Sleeping Beauty who was freed of her curse by a kiss of a prince.

    Like

  12. Suze permalink
    July 31, 2015 12:49 pm

    Thank you Helena. I haven’t been quite in detail in my question.
    I asked all these 4 questions because these MJ haters used it as disturbing and their “proof”.
    I just found it weird on why Michael would stand beside his half naked nephew with sigh of his pubes. That part confuses me plus the kissing knockers which looked like two boys, but maybe I am overthinking.

    Like

  13. July 31, 2015 12:40 pm

    “The photoshoot of Michael and his nephew who is half naked and you can see a tiny amount of his nephew’s pubes.” – Suze

    You must be talking about the photo on the bottom right-hand side: As you understand from this collection this is part of the photoshoot of Michael and 3T for their song WHY. They made several tries and eventually selected a not so sexy one not to tease the girls and the public too much.
    My opinion about it? I think that it is bold but it was not used anyway. And what’s your opinion?

    “Boys together by Larry Stevens. True or false that it was Michael’s?” – Suze

    This book is not on the list of what was “seized” by the police from Neverland. Who told you that it was Michael’s?
    Could you give a link to the source, please?

    Like

  14. July 31, 2015 12:14 pm

    “There’s a kissing knocker in Neverland Ranch, some say its two boys kissing and other says its couple. What’s your opinion of this?” – Suze

    This one?

    It was taken by some photographers who sneaked into Neverland when Michael had already left. Their comment says: “Most of the rides and buildings were in surprisingly good shape. But the castle, where this photo was taken, was very rundown.”

    So the door is from the castle which was part of the amusement park in Neverland (the picture source http://www.legendarymichaeljackson.nl/rob-swinson-michael-wanted-to-be-remembered-as-a-person-not-as-a-personality/):
    I’ve read that it was too small for adults and could be entered only by children.

    Since you’ve asked my opinion about it I think that it is a Disney castle of the Sleeping Beauty and the couple kissing on the knocker is Prince Phillip who kissed Princess Aurora to remove a curse.

    Like

  15. Suze permalink
    July 31, 2015 8:13 am

    @Paulo Thanks for clearing that out! Appreciate it alot.

    Like

  16. paul permalink
    July 31, 2015 6:50 am

    @Suze

    MJ said “If you love me then you’ll sleep in my bed and I’ll sleep on the floor”. He made this comment to Gavin Arvizo after they were debating over who would take the bed after the boy asked to sleep in his room. He wanted to sleep on the floor, but MJ insisted that he take the bed since he was the guest and MJ would sleep on the floor instead.

    Like

  17. Suze permalink
    July 31, 2015 5:59 am

    Hi Helana
    Okay I will ask. Be aware, I am asking out of curiosity. I strongly believe in Michael’s innocence. Now to some things.

    1. On the Martin Bashir documentary with Michael. At one point Michael says “If you love me, you will sleep in my bed.” Some say it was straight up from a pedophile playbook. ?

    2. There’s a kissing knocker in Neverland Ranch, some say its two boys kissing and other says its couple. You can find the picture easily on Google.

    3. The photoshoot of Michael and his nephew who is half naked and you can see a tiny amount of his nephew’s pubes.

    4. Boys together by Larry Stevens. True or false that it was Michael’s?

    What are your opnion on all this?

    Like

  18. July 30, 2015 1:05 pm

    “Are you ever gonna make a connection article comparing the (now very likely true) accusations against Bill Cosby to those against Michael, the way you did with Woody Allen?” – Michael Moore

    Michael, I’ve seen your earlier question about the same and even got familiar with lots of materials on Cosby which I hadn’t done earlier. But as regards a post I am not sure – do you think there is a need for it?

    His case looks to me like a very simple one and typical too. Hollywood has been known for their “casting couch” for so long that it stopped being news to anyone. The system is horrible and the worst part of it is that everyone is taking it for granted – whether it’s 17 or 15 year-old girls or boys. And these people look at themselves as untouchable for law in principle.

    Look at Brian Singer’s case – the accuser’s lawyer had to even apologize to Singer though the matter is crystal clear to everyone. I myself have seen a photo of a party in Singer’s house where the pool was filled with grown-up males and several boys looking like 14-year olds. You could see with a naked eye that grooming was in full swing there.

    The novel feature in Cosby’s case is that he used to drug these girls to knock them out and then raped them which decidedly turns him into a criminal even by the standards of corrupt Hollywood. However if he weren’t black I am not sure that they would have allowed a leak of his 2005 deposition where he admitted to buying drugs to seduce these young women.

    With the above exception the pattern with Cosby was the usual one – already in 2005 he admitted that he used drugs for young women he wanted to have sex with but no one paid attention to it and all complaints fell on deaf ears. Same with Saville, same with Sandusky and same with many others in Hollywood and entertainment industry, and Corey Feldman’s story who spoke of his abuse to the police but no one cared about is the best proof of it.

    Barbara Bowman, one of Cosby’s victims said about her own complaints:

    “I’ve worked so long and hard to tell my story and screamed on deaf ears,” Bowman said. The documents, obtained by TheWrap, go on to state that “defendant [Cosby] testified that he obtained seven prescriptions for Quaaludes.” When asked if he gave the drugs to other people, Cosby replied “yes.”
    Bowman went on to call the documents “validation of my stories and the other women’s stories — to have him call us liars for so long,” she said. “No one believed us. No one believed me when I was 17 and no one was listening in 2005.”
    “Why wasn’t I believed?” she asked. “Why didn’t I get the same reaction of shock and revulsion when I originally reported it? Why was I, a victim of sexual assault, further wronged by victim blaming when I came forward? The women victimized by Bill Cosby have been talking about his crimes for more than a decade. Why didn’t our stories go viral?

    Cosby does look like being guilty – it’s enough to look at the number of women speaking out against him now. It is 45 already. And the majority of them want no money of him. And the statute of limitations expired long ago anyway.

    The huge number of accusers and the way they were treated by law enforcement is in a very big contrast with those 4 and a half so-called Michael’s “victims” the US law enforcement bodies scrambled within the 20 years of keeping him under a microscope. And even they turned out to be fake as all of them told lies and wanted money of MJ (including Gavin Arvizo):

    1) Chandler (1993) failed to corroborate his story and made every mistake in describing MJ’s private parts that was possible to make. Money was the key issue from the start of it.

    2) Jason Francia (1993) was examined by the police so long that he wanted to strike them with something heavy on their heads. Eventually he said that he had been “tickled” on two occasions. Jason’s mother put that tickling to a good use and got a couple of millions for it.

    3) Ten years later Arvizo (2003) claimed that he was abused but pointed to the time when MJ was not even there. The date had to be changed by the prosecution but it didn’t make their case any easier – as a result the “abuse” fell on the time when MJ was under the harshest scrutiny from the police and media (after Bashir’s film aired in 2003). So now it looked like he decided to abuse Gavin in order to prove charges against himself. Great story whichever way you look at it.

    4) Ten years later Robson (2013) suddenly decided to change his mind. Previously he testified twice about MJ’s innocence and the change came when he suddenly realized at age 30 that he had been raped and for seven years too. The poor imbecile explains that he never realized that “rape” was a sexual assault.

    5) And the last “victim” is Safechuck who also decided to join Robson and try his luck with the Estate, but cannot say anything coherent either, probably because he is a mental case (as I hear).

    And this “abuse” was so “regular” that it happened once every ten years. Nonsense? Yes, of course. Especially when you compare it with the regularity of Cosby’s, Saville’s and Sandusky’s exploits.

    For Bill Cosby different sources give different numbers but when putting them together you get at least 45 accusers. And this is typical again – as soon as the gate of silence opens the accusations come in a flood. Here is the list I compiled from two sources:

    1. Sunni Welles. Date of Alleged Assault – Mid-60s
    Welles claimed that she met Cosby when she was a little girl, due to the fact that her mother — who once considered him to be a friend — was a theatrical agent. “I once liked Cosby very much, but that has changed now,” Welles said.
    According to Welles, in the mid-1960s when she was 17 her mother took her to the set of Cosby’s “I Spy,” where Cosby asked her for her number. Cosby then invited Welles to see jazz. The teen, who was auditioning for background singer jobs at the time, was “thrilled” by the invitation. At the jazz club, she ordered a Coke, and that “things began to become blurry” after she took a sip of it. Welles, who said that she didn’t remember leaving the club or driving anywhere, added that she woke up naked in an apartment where Cosby couldn’t be found. Welles went home and showered, she told reporters, and felt like she had sex. “I did not want to believe that a family friend would do that to me,” Welles told reporters at the office of attorney Gloria Allred.
    2. Kristina Ruehli. Year of Alleged Incident: 1965
    Kristina Ruehli is 71 right now. She was 22 in 1965, the year she alleges Cosby drugged her and began to sexually assault her while she was passed out.
    “He must have drugged me. There is just one point at which I was having a drink and feeling normal and the next I was somehow passed out completely,” she told Philadelphia magazine in an interview published on Friday. “He must have slipped something into my drink. I woke up in the bed. I found myself on the bed, and he had his shirt off. He had unzipped his pants. I was just coming to. He was attempting to force me into oral sex. He had his hand on my head. He had his cock out, and he had my head pushed close enough to it — I just remember looking at his stomach hair. And the hair on his chest. I had never seen a black man naked before,” she continued.
    “And it never went past that. I immediately came to and was immediately very sick. I pushed myself away and ran to the bathroom and threw up. I was feeling really ill. And I never got sick like that from alcohol, at least not that small of an amount.”
    Ruehli said she didn’t speak of the incident for quite awhile because she was embarrassed, but she changed her mind when another accuser came forward.
    “I didn’t want to bring it up. I was embarrassed,” she said. “When Andrea Constand brought her lawsuit against Cosby, I decided to come forward to her attorneys. I didn’t think I was damaged, so there wouldn’t be any lawsuit coming from me. I don’t need money or aggravation. I’m very wealthy, so I have nothing to gain. But I wanted to come forward to tell the truth to back up other people.”
    3. Carla Ferrigno. Year of Alleged Incident: 1967
    According to actress Carla Ferrigno – wife of The Incredible Hulk star Lou Ferrigno, although the two were not married at the time – she had allegedly been invited on a double date with Cosby and his wife. Carla claims that both couples went to Cosby’s home and were shooting pool in the basement. She goes on to allege that at one point, she and Cosby ended up alone together, and that he allegedly pulled her close and kissed her roughly as she tried to fight him off. Carla opened up about the alleged incident on KFI-AM’s John and Ken Show on November 20.
    4. Joan Tarshis. Year of Alleged Incident: 1969
    Tarshis went public in Nov. 2014 with allegations that Bill Cosby had raped her in 1969 (the same year he made jokes about spiking women’s drinks with drugs) when she was a 19-year-old comedy writer. She said Cosby invited her to help create material for his short-lived sitcom The Bill Cosby Show. “I was sitting up writing one second, and the next second I was lying down on the couch having my underwear taken off,” Tarshis alleged in an interview with CBS News. She went on to claim that Cosby raped her twice.
    5. Cindra Ladd. Year of Alleged Incident: 1969
    Cindra Ladd, wife of “Blade Runner” producer Alan Ladd Jr., came forward with allegations against Cosby in a troubling HuffPo op-ed.
    She said she met the comedian in 1969 and they saw each other socially on multiple occasions. Once, when they were supposed to watch a movie, she said he coerced her into taking a mysterious pill. Ladd alleges she blacked out as a result and eventually woke up naked.
    “It was obvious to me that he had had sex with me,” she wrote. “I was horrified, embarrassed and ashamed. There was a mirror above the bed, which shocked me further.”
    “I don’t remember where the theater was nor very much of the evening,” she continued. “What I do recall, vividly and clearly, is waking up the next morning nude in the bed of his friend’s apartment and seeing Cosby wearing a white terrycloth bathrobe and acting as if there was nothing unusual.”
    6. Linda Brown. Date of alleged incident: 1969
    Brown said she first met Cosby after shooting a Wonderbra commercial in Toronto in 1969. Brown, then 22, said the comedian took her to dinner, but instead of taking her home afterward he took her to his hotel room to give her a gift.
    “He then went into the other room, got me a soft drink and then he said he needed to make his call. I took a sip and blacked out,” she said. “When I awakened I was naked in the bed beside him. I had no idea how my clothes came off or how and why I was in his bed.”
    “I was shocked and had no clue as to how I got there or why Mr. Cosby was beside me under the covers naked. I couldn’t move or speak,” she added. “I felt paralyzed. He flipped me over and sexually assaulted me. I felt like a rag doll and like a real life blow-up doll for him.”
    7. Victoria Valentino. Year of Alleged Incident: 1970
    Former Playboy Playmate Victoria Valentino said she and a female friend met Cosby for wine and steaks at a restaurant called Sneaky Pete’s in 1970. She claims the comedian gave her drugs while they were there. “He was trying to cheer me up, and he stuck a pill in my mouth,” Valentino told the Washington Post in a video published on Friday. “He said, ‘This will make us all feel better.’ ”
    They took the pills and then headed back to the an apartment near the Chateau Marmont in West Hollywood. Once there, she said she got nauseous while her friend passed out near Cosby, who she said had an erection.
    “I reached out, grabbing him, trying to get his attention, trying to distract him,” she said. “He came over to me and sat down on the love seat and opened his fly and grabbed my head and pushed my head down. And then he turned me over. It was like a waking nightmare.” She said she protested, but he did not stop. Valentino said Cosby raped her and then left the scene. She never called the police because she feared they wouldn’t believe her: “What kind of credibility did I have? … In those days, it was always the rape victim who wound up being victimized. You didn’t want to go to the police.”
    8. Autumn Burns. Year of Alleged Incident: 1970
    Burns claims that she met Cosby while working as a waitress at the gaming tables in a casino in Las Vegas. Burns claims that, after attending one of the comedian’s shows, he gave her a drink that caused her to feel woozy. Burns further alleges that Cosby raped her in his hotel suite.
    9. Louisa Mortiz. Year Of Alleged Incident: 1971
    Actress Louisa Mortiz (“One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest,” “Love American Style”) said Cosby confronted her in 1971 and forced his penis into her mouth shortly before appearing on “The Tonight Show.” “He took his hands and put them on the back of my head and forced his penis in my mouth, saying, ‘Have a taste of this,” she told TMZ. “It will do you good in so many ways.’”
    When he walked out of the room she alleged he then said, “Now you don’t want to upset me and the plans for your future, do you?” Moritz, now 68, said she intends to file a civil lawsuit against Cosby.Cosby’s attorney responded to her claims: “We’ve reached a point of absurdity. The stories are getting more ridiculous… Mortiz is a lawyer who was disciplined by the California State Bar and ordered not to practice.”
    10. Donna Motsinger. Year of Alleged Incident: 1971
    Motsinger spoke with the New York Post’s Page Six on Nov. 26, where she claimed that she was Jane Doe witness No. 8 in the 2005 suit filed against Cosby. Motsinger claims that Cosby drugged and raped her while she was working as a jazz club waitress in Sausalito, Calif.
    11. Katherine McKee. Year of Alleged Incident: Early 1970s
    Former Vegas showgirl and girlfriend of the late-Sammy Davis Jr., Katherine McKee, claims she was sexually assaulted by comedian Bill Cosby during the 1970s.
    “He was a buddy. He knew I was Sammy’s girl,” McKee said.
    McKee said she brought ribs to the comdeian’s hotel room once, which is when she alleges he assaulted her.
    “I remember I walked in the door, and he had a robe and cap on. He took the ribs from my hands and just grabbed me,” said McKee, who said she had known Cosby for eight years before the incident. “He spun me around, pulled my panties down and just took it. We were still standing at the door when he attacked me. It was so fast and so shocking and so unbelievable.”
    “To me, there was a different personality involved,” she added. “He was a different man. It felt like a different person performing the act.”
    12. Linda Joy Traitz. Date of Alleged Assault – 1970s
    In a Facebook post, Linda Joy Traitz claims Cosby offered her pills and “wouldn’t take ‘no’ for an answer” in 1970.
    The incident occurred in 1970 while she was 19 and employed at Cafe Figaro, a Los Angeles restaurant Cosby co-owned, she said. Traitz said Cosby offered him a ride home from work one evening and she accepted, but instead of driving her home he took her to the beach. “[He] opened a briefcase filled with assorted drugs and kept offering me pills ‘to relax,’ which I declined,” she wrote. “He began to get sexually aggressive and wouldn’t take ‘No’ for an answer. I freaked out and demanded to be taken home.”
    “I never went after him for this and have no financial gain to put myself out there like this,”she added. “I’m 63 years old now and felt compelled to speak out.”
    13. Helen Hayes. Year Of Alleged Incident: 1973
    Hayes claimed to have encountered Cosby in the summer of 1973 while attending a tennis tournament in Pebble Beach, California. She said that Cosby followed her party around all day, “even though we had changed restaurants several times to avoid him.”
    Eventually, Hayes claimed, Cosby “approached me from behind and reached over my shoulder and grabbed my right breast.”
    “His behavior was like that of a predator,” she added.
    14. Judy Huth. Year Of Alleged Incident: 1974
    Huth filed a lawsuit against Cosby on Dec. 2, in which she claims that she first met Cosby back in 1974, when she was 15 and she – along with an unnamed 16-year-old female friend – wandered onto a movie set where Cosby was working. According to the lawsuit, Cosby allegedly befriended Huth and her friend, and invited them over to his home where he served them alcohol.
    Huth’s lawsuit goes on to claim that Cosby knew how old she was, and that he took her to a party at the Playboy Mansion where he allegedly told her to tell anyone who asked that she was 19. While at the party, Huth alleges in court documents that, when she emerged from using the restroom in one of the mansion’s many rooms, Cosby was sitting on a bed waiting for her, and then allegedly sexually assaulted her by taking her hand and making her perform a sex act on him.
    Huth’s suit claims that “this traumatic incident, at such a tender age, has caused psychological damage and mental anguish for [Huth] that has caused her significant problems throughout her life.” Huth and her lawyers are seeking a jury trial.
    15. Tamara Green. Year of Alleged Incident: 1975
    Green first publicly shared her story on the Today show in 2005 in the wake of the civil lawsuit filed by Andrea Constand. She told Matt Lauer she was suffering from the flu when she met Cosby and “a number of other people” at an L.A. restaurant. According to Green, Cosby gave her pills that would help with her flu symptoms, and before long she was nearly unconscious. Green went on to claim that Cosby took her back to her home, undressed her and began groping her.
    “I actually told him that he would have to kill me, that if he didn’t kill me and he tried to rape me, it was going to go very badly,” Green said. “I guess it was inconvenient at that point, I had not been crushed successfully into submission and he left two $100 bills on my coffee table and he left my apartment.”
    Green spoke out again in 2014, even writing an op-ed for ETonline in which she detailed the adversity she encountered sharing her story. “To go for help and be dismissed because he’s very cool and famous and you are not,” she wrote. “It is crushing and you are a victim all over again.”
    16. Margie Shapiro. Date of Alleged Assault – 1975
    Shapiro told reporters that she met Cosby in 1975 while she was working at a donut shop in Santa Monica, where Cosby ordered dozens of donuts. She claimed that she was invited to Cosby’s film set, where she spent the afternoon with the comedian. Afterward, she was invited to a casual dinner with Cosby, but the dinner was canceled and the comedian invited her to the Playboy Mansion instead, Shapiro, who said she was 19 at the time, continued. Instead, the pair entered what she called a “rec place” or “game house,” and Cosby told her whoever lost at pinball had to take a pill. Shapiro lost — and when she came to, both she and Cosby were naked, and Cosby was inside of her. Shapiro claims to have “mercifully” passed out again, but every time she regained consciousness, Cosby was touching her sexually.
    The alleged victim said that Cosby acted as if nothing had happened, eventually telling her that they would not be seeing Hugh Hefner and that she wasn’t dressed nicely enough, instead a driver took her home.
    17. Marcella Tate. Year of Alleged Incident: 1975
    According to Tate, she attended a party at the Playboy mansion as Cosby’s guest. Tate claims that Cosby gave her a drink that caused her head to get “cloudy.” Tate claims that she woke up in an unfamiliar bed the next day, allegedly with a naked Cosby in bed with her.
    18. Therese Serignese. Year(s) Of Alleged Incident: Mid-1970s
    Speaking with People Magazine on Nov. 20, 2014, Seringese alleged that she met with Cosby in Las Vegas, after one of his stand-up shows, when she was 19 years old. She claims that Cosby pressured her into taking Quaaludes – a powerful sedative-hypnotic drug – and then pressured her into agreeing to engage in sexual activity.
    Serignese told People, “My next memory is I felt high; I don’t remember what happened in the meantime.
    “The next memory I have was I was in a bathroom and I was kind of bending forward and he was behind me having sex with me,” she said on Thursday. “I was just there, thinking ‘I’m on drugs, I’m drugged.’ I felt drugged and I was being raped and it was kind of surreal. My frame of mind was that it would be over soon and I could just get out of there.”
    Serignese also claims to be one of the 13 Jane Doe witnesses that were prepared to testify against Cosby during Andrea Constand’s 2005 civil suit, before it was settled out of court in 2006.
    19. Shawn Brown. Year of Alleged Incident: Mid-1970s
    Brown, the only woman that Cosby ever admitted having a sexual relationship with, claimed in an interview with The Daily Mail that Cosby drugged and raped her, despite her previous willingness to sleep with him.
    She claims that Cosby convinced her to drink alcohol, got her high on marijuana, and then had sex with her after she had blacked out. “I had never really been into him and the other times I had really just been going through the motions,” Brown said. “I don’t think I was freaky enough for him, and that’s why he drugged me.”
    Brown claims she became pregnant from the affair and gave birth to a daughter, Autumn Jackson, who Cosby secretly helped support. Jackson was later arrested and charged with a felony when she allegedly tried to blackmail Cosby for $40 million to keep his affair with her mother and his alleged paternity of her a secret.
    20. Joyce Emmons. Year of Alleged Incident: Late 1970s
    In the 1970s, Joyce Emmons ran a number of comedy clubs and claims that she and Cosby would often hang out. According to allegations by Emmons, Cosby had “a drawer full of drugs,” including Quaaludes.
    Emmons spoke with TMZ on Nov. 22, and claimed that Cosby gave her a pill that was supposed to cure her strong headache, but instead caused her to pass out. Emmons claims that when she woke up, she was in bed with one of Cosby’s friends who had attempted to hit on her earlier in the evening.
    21. P.J. Masten. Year of Alleged Incident: 1979
    In an interview with the New York Daily News, Masten claims that Cosby attacked her when she was working as a Playboy Bunny at the Playboy Club in Chicago. According to Masten, Cosby allegedly lured her to his room where he served her a glass of alcohol, after which she claims to have blacked out.
    Masten alleges that she woke up, hours later, in bed next to Cosby who was naked. Masten further claims that Cosby has done this to several Playboy Bunnies, saying, “There are a dozen former bunnies that I know of with similar stories, but they’re afraid to come forward.”
    22. Linda Kirkpatrick. Year of Alleged Incident: Early 1980s
    Kirkpatrick claimed to have met Cosby during a mixed doubles tennis tournament in Las Vegas in 1981. After she bested Cosby in their match, Kirkpatrick claimed she attended his show at the Las Vegas Hilton and, arriving at his dressing room, was given a “tall, thin champagne type of glass” by Cosby which contained a clear liquid that “tasted terrible.”
    Later, in Cosby’s dressing room, Kirkpatrick said he “was on top of me kissing me forcefully” even though she “had no interest in sex of any kind” with him.
    Kirkpatrick also added that she had “no conscious recollection of how I got home” and, the next day, “began violently throwing up … as a result of what I believe to be ingesting some kind of drug.”
    23. Lynn Neal. Year of Alleged Incident: Early 1980s
    Neal claims that Cosby sexually assaulted her when she was in her mid-20s after the comedian invited her to one of his stand-up performances at the Las Vegas Hilton. According to Neal, Cosby took her out for a bite to eat after the show and bought her a drink. “By the time we walked back to his dressing room, I was having problems walking,” Neal claimed at a press conference held by Gloria Allred on Jan. 7. “When we entered the dressing room I sat on the couch and he started taking my pants down … I felt helpless and I couldn’t stop him.”
    24. Janice Baker-Kinney. Year of Alleged Incident: Early 1980s
    Baker-Kinney alleges that she met the comedian in the early ’80s during a pizza party thrown by a casino, where she worked at the time. Baker-Kinney claims that Cosby gave her two pills that caused her to pass out, only to allegedly wake up the next day in bed with Cosby.
    25. Janice Dickinson. Year of Alleged Incident: 1982
    Janice Dickinson, former “America’s Next Top Model” judge, claimed the comedian sexually assaulted her in 1982.
    The now 59-year-old reality star said she was on a trip in Bali when Cosby contacted her and urged her to come to Lake Tahoe, where he was performing. According to Dickinson, the comedian then dangled the prospect of work in front to her. According to the former model and television personality, Cosby gave her wine and a pill, which caused her to pass out. However, Dickinson claims that she has a recollection of being sexually assaulted by Cosby.
    “The next morning I woke up, and I wasn’t wearing my pajamas, and I remember before I passed out that I had been sexually assaulted by this man,” Dickinson claimed. “Before I woke up in the morning, the last thing I remember was Cosby in a patchwork robe, dropping his robe and getting on top of me. And I remember a lot of pain. The next morning I remember waking up with my pajamas off and there was semen in between my legs.”
    26. Renita Chaney Hill. Years of Alleged Incident: 1982-1986
    Renita Chaney Hill appeared alongside Cosby during the 1980s in his “Picture Pages” educational videos. He had scouted her when she was just a 15-year-old model and aspiring actress.
    Hill spoke to CBS’s Pittsburgh affiliate KDKA about the alleged attacks and told KDKA reporter Ralph Iannotti that Cosby flew her to various cities, including New York and Atlanta. She said she wouldn’t see him during the day, but would go to his hotel room at night. She claimed the comedian gave her drinks she now believes were drugged.
    “One time, I remember just before I passed out, I remember him kissing and touching me and I remember the taste of his cigar on his breath, and I didn’t like it,” Hill told KDKA. “I remember another time when I woke up in my bed the next day and he was leaving. He mentioned ‘you should probably lose a little weight.’ I thought that odd, how would he know that?”
    Hill said she can’t know for sure if she was raped because she was unconscious. “It just felt weird to me, and I remember being in high school saying to him, ‘I’ll come see you, but I don’t want to drink because it makes me feel funny,’” Hill said. “And he would tell me that if I didn’t drink, I couldn’t come see him.” Hill says she came forward after hearing Cosby’s attorney criticize the other women who have already done so, and she is unapologetic about waiting so long. “No one wants to be associated with something like this, but the bottom line for me is that no one has the right to violate someone else, no matter who they are,” she said. “I don’t care how big they are or how the community sees them, it’s not right.”
    27. Beth Ferrier. Years of Alleged Incident: Early to mid-1980s
    Following the 2005 civil suit filed by Andrea Constad against Cosby, Ferrier came out as one of 13 women who had been preparing to serve as a Jane Doe witness against Cosby before the case was settled out of court. According to Ferrier, one night after she ended their months-long consensual affair, she was drinking a cup of coffee in Cosby’s dressing room in Denver. “He said, ‘Here’s your favorite coffee, something I made, to relax you,'” she says. And then she blacked out. When she came to, Ferrier claims that her clothes were disheveled and her bra unhooked. Ferrier told People magazine in 2006 that when she asked Cosby about the incident, he allegedly said, “We’ll never speak of this again.”
    28. Heidi Thomas. Year of Alleged Incident: 1984
    Thomas alleged that Cosby sexually assaulted her when she was a 24-year-old aspiring model. Thomas claimed that her agent sent her to meet Cosby at Harrah’s Casino in Reno, Nevada, so that he could mentor her. Thomas alleged that when she arrived at the airport in Reno, she was picked up by a driver who took her to a house outside of the city where Cosby was waiting for her. Thomas claimed that Cosby asked her to perform a series of monologs, including one where she was supposed to act drunk.
    Cosby allegedly then gave her a glass of wine. Thomas claimed her memory became hazy after drinking the wine and that she lost consciousness. She alleged that, when she woke up, Cosby was forcing her to perform oral sex on him. Thomas made her claims in an interview with CNN, published on Feb. 26.
    29. Beverly Johnson. Year of Alleged Incident: Mid-1980s
    Supermodel Beverly Johnson wrote an essay for Vanity Fair in December, alleging that she was drugged and almost attacked by Cosby after she auditioned for a role on The Cosby Show. In the op-ed, Johnson wrote that after meeting with the sitcom star at a taping of the show, “He seemed genuinely interested in guiding me to the next level.” She claims that she was invited to Cosby’s home on multiple occasions, but during her last visit, he allegedly gave her coffee that she later realized was laced with drugs.
    Johnson claims that she knew almost immediately that she had been drugged, and when Cosby began trying to put his hands on her, she screamed at him. According to Johnson, Cosby became enraged and kicked her out of his house and shoved her into a cab, leaving her confused and disoriented.
    30. Sammie Mays. Year of Alleged Incident: Mid-’80s
    Mays, a writer, claims to have met with Cosby for an interview in 1986 or 1987 while reporting on a convention the comedian appeared at in New Orleans.
    Mays alleges that, during the interview, Cosby fixed her a drink and she soon lost consciousness. Mays claims that, when she came to, she was half-undressed. She says she believes that she was raped by the comedian while unconscious.
    31. Barbara Bowman. Year of Alleged Incident: 1986
    Bowman was another of the 13 Jane Doe witnesses who had been prepping to testify against Cosby for Andrea Constad’s 2005 civil suit. She made headlines again in November of this year when she penned an article for the Washington Post titled, “Bill Cosby raped me. Why did it take 30 years for people to believe my story?”
    Bowman claims that Cosby worked toward gaining her trust and becoming her mentor before sexually assaulting her in a Reno hotel room in 1986. Bowman alleges that this was the first in a string of instances that took place that year, including an assault in Atlantic City when Cosby drugged her and forcibly attempted to rape her.
    “[Cosby] threw me on the bed and braced his arm under my neck so I couldn’t move my head, and he started trying to take his clothes off,” Bowman told People magazine back in 2006 . “I remember all the clinking of his belt buckle. And he was trying to take my pants down, and I was trying to keep them on.”
    32. Lisa Jones. Year Of Alleged Incident: 1986
    Jones claims that she first met Cosby in 1986, when she was 17 and working as a model in Canada. She alleges that Cosby contacted her modeling agency to invite her and her mother to meet him at a stand-up performance in Vancouver. According to Jones, Cosby acted like a father figure to gain her trust.
    Jones claims that the comedian later invited her to fly out to New York to audition for a role on The Cosby Show, but when she landed she was driven to Cosby’s home, where he allegedly gave her alcohol. Jones claims Cosby was “very derogatory about how women were going to be successful in the industry and how [the way] women had gotten successful was by the casting couch.”
    Jones went public with her allegations to ET Canada on Dec. 1, 2014, where she further claimed that Cosby tried to sexually assault her. “He, out of nowhere, started to walk past me, and crouched in front of my knees, grabbed my legs, and tried to pull them apart… I just remember I was so shocked… All I wanted to do was get out of there because I was in an unsafe environment and that’s what I did.”
    33. Chelan. Year Of Alleged Incident: 1986
    Chelan, whose last name has not been made public, claims that Cosby reached out to her in 1986 when she was 17 and working at the Las Vegas Hilton. Chelan, then an aspiring model, says Cosby corresponded with her under the pretense of introducing her to modeling agency reps. She claims that when she arrived at his hotel suite in Vegas, Cosby gave her a blue pill and said it was an antihistamine, then told her to take it with alcohol.
    Chelan claims that Cosby sexually assaulted her before she passed out, and that when she awoke, Cosby gave her $1,500. According to Chelan, Cosby later invited her to see his stand-up show at the Hilton, but when she declined, she was fired.
    34. Helen Gumpel. Date of alleged incident: 1987
    Former fashion model and actress Helen Gumpel came forward in February and accused Bill Cosby of acting lewd and making sexual advances at her while she was on the set of “The Cosby Show.”
    She said she went to Cosby’s dressing room under the impression that she was auditioning to appear on a second episode of the comedian’s family sitcom. Gumpel alleges Cosby sat her down on a couch and handed her a drink. Next, she said he put her crotch in his face.
    “I never thought of myself as a victim because I refused his advances,” Gumpel said in a press conference. “But my career was a victim.”
    35. Jena T. Year of Alleged Incident: 1988
    In an interview with People, Jena T. – she asked that her last name not be used – claims that, when she was 17, she met with a modeling agency in New York, and was then sent to meet with Cosby.
    According to Jena T., Cosby called her parents to encourage them to support Jena’s move to New York, and assured her that he would help her become a successful model. However, Jena claims that she soon became uncomfortable with the amount of attention Cosby paid her, and felt it was more than paternal.
    Jena claims that she attempted to confront Cosby, who responded to her concerns with an offer to send her to college and buy her a car. Later, Jena claims Cosby pressured her into an unwanted sexual position, and allegedly gave her $700 before she left.
    Jena T. claims that the incident with Cosby has had long-lasting negative effects on her self-esteem and ability to trust people.
    36. Lisa. Year of Alleged Incident: 1988
    A woman using the pseudonym Lisa accused Cosby of drugging her and possibly taking advantage of her in 1988. She spoke out Friday, Dec. 19 on an episode of the talk show “Dr. Phil.”
    The former model said the comedian had befriend her in the 1980s: “I trusted him like I trusted my own father.”
    But all of that allegedly changed after she visited Cosby at his hotel suite for a career mentoring session. Lisa said he insisted she drink multiple drinks, which made her dizzy.
    “Bill had sat down on the edge of the couch. He said, ‘Come over here and have a seat.’ And he had his legs open and when I sat down, I was sitting down in between his legs with my back to his crotch. And he started to stroke my hair back in a petting motion like this,” she explained. “The last thing I remember is just feeling the strokes on my head. After that, I don’t remember anything else.”
    Lisa said she woke up two days later, without any memories of what happened in the interim.
    37. Jewel Allison. Year(s) of Alleged Incident: Late-1980s
    Jewel Allison claims that Cosby began contacting her in the late 1980s, supposedly to try and mentor her and develop her career as a model and actress. Jewel Allison told the New York Daily News that Cosby took her to dinner one night in the late 1980s, but was victimized after drinking wine which made her ill. Allison alleged Cosby later took her hand and put it on his genitals: “That was my sexual assault by this comedian… He turned me around and said, ‘Let’s get you home.’ At the door, he gave me a very hard embrace and a hard kiss.”
    “We may be looking at America’s greatest serial rapist that ever got away with this for the longest amount of time,” she continued. “He got away with it because he was hiding behind the image of Cliff Huxtable.”
    “There’s no such thing as America’s Dad… There’s just a man named Bill Cosby. He’s a very sick sociopath.”
    38. Lise-Lotte Lublin. Date of alleged incident: 1989
    Lublin said her modeling agency connected her with Cosby when she was 23. She said the comedian invited her back to his hotel room for what he described as an audition, later asking her to put on an acting display.
    She said the comedian then fixed her a shot of alcohol to calm her nerves. “I told him I did not drink, but he insisted, so I drank it … I trusted him because of who he was, and how well he was respected around the world,” she said. “My next memory was waking up at home, and for me, it felt like several days had passed.”
    39. Kacey. Year of Alleged Incident: Early 1990s
    Kacey claims that she was attacked by the comedian when she was working at the William Morris Agency as an assistant to Cosby’s personal appearance agent. Kacey says she was invited to Cosby’s house to read a script with him, whereupon she claims the comic pressured her into taking a “large white pill.”
    “Next, I remember waking up in a bed with Mr. Cosby naked beneath his open robe,” Kacey told reporters during the press conference. Kacey claims that she soon left William Morris in order to avoid seeing Cosby again.
    40. Angela Leslie. Year of Alleged Incident: 1992
    At the time, Angela Leslie was an aspiring actress who allegedly met with Cosby in Las Vegas. Leslie claims that the comedian tried to get her to drink a cocktail he had made her, but she didn’t drink from it.
    “I couldn’t drink it,” she told the New York Daily News. “I tasted it and put it down. Then he asked me to go into the bathroom and wet my hair. . . . I walked back out, and he had removed his clothing and gotten into bed.” She said Cosby then began rubbing the actress, even pouring lotion into her hands. “With his hand on top of mine, he had me massage his penis,” she said.” He masturbated with my hand. I wasn’t pulling back. I was in shock.”
    “I felt so used,” she continued. “I felt that he didn’t get what he wanted, and he threw me out. . . . He didn’t make me feel special in any way. He said, ‘Come here, put your hand here, do this.’”
    41. Lili Bernard. Year of Alleged Incident: 1992
    Lili Bernard, a former actress who appeared in an episode of The Cosby Show in 1992 and claims to have been mentored by Cosby, alleged that the comedian raped her during an encounter in the show’s studio and then threatened her.
    He told her, “As far as I’m concerned, Bernard, you’re dead. Do you hear me? You’re dead, Bernard. You don’t exist, I never wanna see your face again. Now get the hell out of here!”
    “I interpreted that as a death threat and feared for my life,” Bernard said.
    Bernard has gone to the New Jersey police with her allegations. The state of New Jersey has no statue of limitation for rape.
    42. Michelle Hurd. Year of Alleged Incident: 1995
    Actress Michelle Hurd, best known for her work in Law & Order: SVU, claims that Cosby was very “inappropriate” with her when she had a small role in an episode of The Cosby Mysteries.
    In a Facebook post written November 21, Hurd claimed, “It started innocently, lunch in his dressing room, daily, then onto weird acting exercises were he would move his hands up and down my body, (can’t believe I fell for that). I was instructed to NEVER tell anyone what we did together, (he said other actors would become jealous) and then fortunately, I dodged the ultimate bullet with him when he asked me to come to his house, take a shower so we could blow dry my hair and see what it looked like straightened.
    Hurd declined, but according to her post a friend of hers, who she did not name, didn’t dodge the same bullet. “[The friend] awoke, after being drugged, vomited, and then Cosby told her there’s a cab waiting for you outside,” Hurd wrote.
    43. Lachelle Covington. Year of Alleged Incident: 2000
    Lachelle Covington, an actress on the sitcom Cosby, filed a police report against the comedian accusing him of making unwanted sexual advances toward her. According to the 2000 story in The New York Post, Covington allegedly came to Cosby looking for career advice. The police report claimed that Cosby put his hand under her shirt and then allegedly attempted to guide her hand down his pants.
    44. Andrea Constand. Year of Alleged Incident:January 2004
    Constand, the director of operations for the Temple University women’s basketball team, says that in November of 2002, she met with Cosby – a Temple University alum – when he approached her and offered to be her mentor in an attempt to gain her trust. In January 2004, she says she met with Cosby at his home in Pennsylvania and alleges that he gave her pills that he said would ease her anxiety. Constand claims that after drugging her, Cosby groped and sexually assaulted her.
    In March 2005, Constand filed civil charges against Cosby. Thirteen unidentified women agreed to serve as Jane Doe witnesses to testify that they too were sexually assaulted by Cosby, but the case was settled out of court for an unspecified amount in November 2006, and the 13 witnesses didn’t get the chance to take the stand.
    45. Chloe Goins. Year of Alleged Incident: 2008
    Chloe Goins told the Daily Mail that Cosby drugged her and assaulted her in 2008. The model and exotic dancer claims she met the comedian at the Playboy Mansion, when she was only 18. She alleges he gave her a spiked drink, which made her feel dizzy. Goins said she later woke up to Cosby licking her toes and pleasuring himself.

    Cosby denies Goins’ allegations, as well as all other accusations leveled against him.

    http://www.thewrap.com/19-bill-cosby-accusers-complete-breakdown-of-the-allegations-so-far/
    http://www.etonline.com/news/154160_timeline_of_bill_cosby_sexual_assault_allegations/

    Like

  19. July 30, 2015 12:01 pm

    “I have a question for you, do you have a email where I can speak to you privatly? I hope you answer quickly cause I am being little concerned over something about a picture in Neverland.” – Suze

    Suze, you don’t have to talk to me privately about any pictures in Neverland. Share your concerns with us here. We have no secrets to hide about MJ.

    Like

  20. Michael Moore permalink
    July 30, 2015 11:56 am

    Helena, your posts are as insightful as always. Are you ever gonna make a connection article comparing the (now very likely true) accusations against Bill Cosby to those against Michael, the way you did with Woody Allen? Or did you do that only because it involved stories of raping a child? Also, it might be interesting to note Judd Apatow’s outrage against Cosby, but not having done so with Allen, and having friendships with Lena Dunham and Amy Schumer (star of his latest film Trainwreck), who made statements admitting they also had very unsavory (practically rapey) relationships (in Dunham’s case, with a sibling).

    Like

  21. Suze permalink
    July 30, 2015 11:50 am

    Hi Helena
    I have a question for you, do you have a email where I can speak to you privatly? I hope you answer quickly cause I am being little concerned over something about a picture in Neverland.

    Like

  22. July 29, 2015 9:48 am

    “This is just another example that Wade takes elements from the stories of real abuse victims and randomly injects into his story not realizing that he can’t have it both ways.” – Vulcan

    Robson and Co. are indeed injecting into his tale elements from stories of real abuse victims in order to make it look similar to the real thing, and do it by using the most common statements of real child abuse victims.

    The pattern Robson’s team follows is simple – “since all victims say it I will say that too”. In the eyes of ordinary public these common statements make the stories look similar (“Look, he is also saying this, this and that!”) and unfortunately this method can fool a lot of people who don’t go into detail and don’t know under what circumstances real victims say it.

    For example, take a very common statement like “I thought/he told me that no one would believe me”. Yes, that’s true for almost all victims’ cases, but is in absolute contrast with Michael’s situation. There was so much hostility towards MJ and so much noise around his name that everyone was ready to believe anything about him without any corroboration, so it was absolutely no problem for the alleged “victim” to tell whatever he invented about it.

    In order to see this subtle difference between truth and lies about sexual abuse people should listen to real child abuse victims, and though the subject is horrible there seems to be no other way out.

    On the other hand if we talk more about it and make people aware of how it really happens it will be only for the better of the whole world and its children. Michael would want us to do it – to clean the world of this dirt.

    Like

  23. July 29, 2015 7:30 am

    “This is a quote from Wade that was taken from his declaration that was unredacted by MJfacts.” – Paul

    How could it be “unredacted” by ordinary bloggers? By guessing what he said? No, Michael’s haters are not guessing and are evidently in direct communication with Robson’s lawyers, Robson himself, or both.

    Frankly, I cannot imagine Thomas Mesereau “unredacting” the documents filed by their side with the court and spreading them via some anti-Arvizos bloggers for smearing the family. And this is what’s being done in this case.

    Putting aside the dubious legality of it, this communication implies that MJ haters and Robson and his lawyers are helping each other. If their stories were genuine they wouldn’t need the help of MJ hate experts to create them.

    “The most distressing thing for me is admitting to myself that it felt good. I feel overwhelming guilt and shame that I looked forward to being with Doe 1 sexually, because it makes me feel like I am responsible. My life has been a lie.”

    Wade Robson may have looked forward to whatever he liked, only if he was abused it wasn’t at the hands of MJ – it was someone different. Look at what’s going on in Hollywood, look at Robson’s early childhood in Australia – the opportunities for his abuse were plenty, but the convenient target is only one.

    Like

  24. July 27, 2015 2:24 pm

    You are so right vulcan.Helena has a point in stating that when you yourself are of that age (when molested) and your child reaches that age memories come back to life.I was lucky not to be molested, but when my child grew up I went through all my childhood sort of a second time.
    At 13 yo there were some attempts to get at me, but at that time I knew exactly what the game was and evaded every opportunity for anything to happen.And not tell the person who would not believe me .

    Like

  25. vulcan permalink
    July 27, 2015 3:40 am

    “The most distressing thing for me is admitting to myself that it felt good. I feel overwhelming guilt and shame that I looked forward to being with Doe 1 sexually, because it makes me feel like I am responsible. My life has been a lie.”

    Anal rape felt good? Who believes that?
    And if it felt so good how come he didn’t become gay?
    His mother said in the interview that he was already chasing girls when he was 14! That is just around when the abuse supposedly stopped.
    But Wade showed absolutely no interest in guys. Does he want to say that it only felt good because it was MJ?
    This is just another example that Wade takes elements from the stories of real abuse victims and randomly injects into his story not realizing that he can’t have it both ways.

    If Robson needed to see a little kid to realize that he was abused how is that seeing Mj’s own little kids with him didn’t have the same effect when they had that “most normal” barbecue in 2008?
    Does he want to say that until his son was born he never saw any kid anywhere anytime?

    Of course what he and Safechuck says is beyond absurd not only because every sane person at age 15-30 knows what child sex abuse is but they are talking about someone who was very publicly accused of the same thing and they had to talk about it to the police and in court!

    When police asked them they didn’t say yes he touched me and sucked me but that was not abuse. That was my idea and it was expression of love.
    Instead they said nothing ever happened, period.

    They cannot show any example which is even remotely similar to what they want us to believe. And they want everyone to believe that this extremely improbable phenomenon (a grown man not understanding what child sex abuse is while his “abuser” is on trial for the same thing) happened not just once but TWICE!
    And both just happen to have the same lawyer and both want millions from the “abuser’s” Estate and both didn’t come to the realization until four years after the “abuser” died.

    If this wasn’t tragic it should be a Monty Phyton movie. After Janet Arvizo’s hot air balloon the absurdity around MJ has just hit a new high.

    Like

  26. paul permalink
    July 26, 2015 5:17 pm

    This is a quote from Wade that was taken from his declaration that was unredacted by MJfacts:

    “The most distressing thing for me is admitting to myself that it felt good. I feel overwhelming guilt and shame that I looked forward to being with Doe 1 sexually, because it makes me feel like I am responsible. My life has been a lie.”

    This guy has a very creative imagination and is seriously disturbed.

    Like

  27. Michael Moore permalink
    July 26, 2015 11:25 am

    Helena, your posts are as insightful as always. Are you ever gonna make a connection article comparing the (now very likely true) accusations against Bill Cosby to those against Michael, the way you did with Woody Allen? Or did you do that only because it involved stories of raping a child? Also, it might be interesting to note Judd Apatow’s outrage against Cosby, but not having done so with Allen, and having friendships with Lena Dunham and Amy Schumer (star of his latest film Trainwreck), who made statements admitting they also had very unsavory (practically rapey) relationships (in Dunham’s case, with a sibling).

    Like

  28. July 24, 2015 5:15 am

    “What’s even more sad is that he’s dragging his son into this.” – paul

    Yes, Robson is dragging his son into this and let me make a note in this connection.

    If we are to believe Robson’s story – that seeing his little son made his realize how vulnerable kids are, and this is when he allegedly remembered his own “abuse”, etc. etc. etc. – it will again prove that Robson could be abused only at a very young age. People grow aware of the danger for their own children when they come closer to the age when the parent was molested him/herself.

    If you were assaulted at five it will be extremely painful to see your own son or daughter of the same age and realize how helpless, trusting and vulnerable these little kids are. You imagine yourself at this age and realize how monstrous should be the ones who violated you at so innocent an age.

    This may indeed result in a nervous breakdown as you relate yourself to the same age, sort of “live through it” once again and the mere idea that it may happen to your own child will send you into complete shatters.

    But if you were abused at fourteen this emotional breakdown may consequently come when your own child is closer to that age. This is when you can really begin to panic about your child’s safety. Of course, if you yourself are a victim of child abuse, you will always be aware that the danger exists, but the emotional outbreak will come when your child reaches his/her teens, but not at age two.

    And Robson wants us to believe that when he saw his two-year old kid he recalled himself at age 9-15?

    Nonsense.

    Like

  29. paul permalink
    July 23, 2015 7:58 pm

    What’s even more sad is that he’s dragging his son into this.

    Like

  30. July 23, 2015 1:11 pm

    Let me repeat my reply to Lynande51 where it really belongs – in the post about Robson’s early childhood.

    “I’m sorry but I don’t believe for one second that Wade had some sort of breakdown and might be the reason that he is accusing MJ.” – Lynande51

    Lynande51, who told you that Wade had a sort of a breakdown and this might be the reason why he is accusing MJ? If this is the impression you get of my post I should immediately rewrite it as this has nothing to do with what I wanted to say.

    The most probable reason why Robson is accusing Michael is because someone paid him to do so.
    The other reason is because he is a nasty, cynical and unscrupulous guy.

    And if Robson was really abused by someone in his early childhood this is absolutely no reason for telling lies about his old friend Michael Jackson. There is simply no connection between one thing and the other.

    If you or I were abused in our childhood we won’t point our fingers at a wrong guy and will say everything the way it really was. If we don’t and point at someone different, it will be an intentional assassination of this person’s character, a horrible insult and a most vicious crime.

    This is what Robson is doing to MJ.

    And I am simply analyzing Robson’s story and if he claims that he was molested for 6 years (from 1991 to 1997 as far as I remember) and says that “until the age of 30 he didn’t realize that he was a victim of molestation” the story he himself is telling is a clear indication that he is a liar.

    Because if he was indeed molested it could happen to him only in very early childhood. From age 9 to 15 people know what is happening to them and who is doing what, while in their very early childhood they might be very confused and may not even remember.

    And I investigated the possibility of him being abused at a very early age and found that such a possibility did exist.

    That is all.

    If my post creates a different impression, please tell me which part I need to rewrite or which point I need to refocus on to make it finally clear to everyone.

    Like

  31. t (@wkatriina22) permalink
    July 21, 2015 3:24 pm

    Whatever, Wade does need more and lenghty therapy.There is a bipolar father who committed suicide and parental divorce + I think other family problems not mentioned.
    He may well be suffering, and money will not solve his problems. I am uncertain whether he himself is also seeking to divorce or not.Then a young son with some sort of problem too.
    Most people with 2 breakdowns in their history stay in therapy for years,seeing a therapist and psyhciatrist for years, on a weekly basis at least.

    Like

  32. July 21, 2015 7:04 am

    “Sorry I don’t understand completely. You are saying Wade is a victim of child abuse but we should ignore any emotional or mental damage caused by that and he deserves no sympathy because he lied on Michael? Is that right? I just want to make sure I fall into line Helena!”- Darlen4MJ

    Darlen4MJ, first of all I am not stating that he is a victim of child abuse but say that I cannot rule it out.

    The next question is the time when it could happen. Judging by the way he “remembers” it I assert that this could happen only when he was very small and could start only when he was in Australia.

    This early experience could explain his later depression and nervous breakdowns.

    In Australia the most likely people who could do that to him were those who were part of the entertainment industry involving children – someone associated with his dance school, TV show, tours around the country, agents, etc.

    A supposition like that would have been totally ungrounded if there had been no precedents – but the precedents are there, and some are described in this post. If it happened to those children it could happen to Robson too.

    And if Robson was really abused we absolutely shouldn’t ignore the emotional and mental damage it could have caused him and it would be only natural to sympathize with him.

    But on the other hand I cannot sympathize with a person who is using his real past abuse by someone different for making it look like it was done by MJ. Robson is not telling us of his real life experience and is not naming the real perpetrators (if he remembers them) but is simply using MJ as the easiest target.

    Telling the story of his real abuse would be too painful a thing and would possibly involve complications for him, while placing the guilt on an innocent person who cannot answer is a whole lot easier.

    In short Robson is withholding the real truth and is simply using MJ for his own convenience.

    And each of us should decide for themselves in which part of his story we can sympathize with him as a possible victim of abuse and in which part we can’t as he is now cynically taking advantage of his old friend.

    People should understand that one thing does not rule out the other.
    The choice is not necessarily between “he was abused and is telling the truth” and “he was not abused and is telling a lie”.

    There might be a combination of it – “he was really abused but is lying that it was MJ”.

    Someone could have paid him to place the guilt of other(s) on an innocent person.

    In my opinion it is unforgivable – abused or not abused.

    Like

  33. Darlene4MJ permalink
    July 21, 2015 2:26 am

    Sorry I don’t understand completely. You are saying Wade is a victim of child abuse but we should ignore any emotional or mental damage caused by that and he deserves no sympathy because he lied on Michael?

    Is that right? I just want to make sure I fall into line Helena!

    Like

  34. July 20, 2015 6:09 pm

    “I feel for Wade, in a way. This is a confusing thing to go through, and he may have jumped the gun when he should’ve explored his memories more.” – Anonymous lady

    In a way I also feel for Wade, but only if he was really abused in his early childhood. This could turn him into a totally messed up child and it is impossible not to sympathize with a real child abuse victim.

    As to false memories such a possibility would have been correct if he had been fantasizing only about a limited and early period of his childhood. But Robson claims that the abuse continued until 1997 and this shows that he is telling an intentional lie and is doing it with a clear and cynical mind.

    No amount of insight therapy can extend the false memory over a period when there was no abuse at all. If you were abused at three you cannot develop a false memory about it still happening to you at the age of ten.

    So Robson is telling a blatant lie and if he was really abused he is making use of that experience by placing the responsibility for what was done by others on the innocent Michael Jackson – and this is an unforgivable crime.

    This leaves us with two options only – either he was really abused in his early childhood, and is depressed and messed-up due to that experience AND he is also lying about Michael, or he was never abused and all of it is a big lie from beginning to end.

    All other options are absurd considering his confident testimony at the 2005 trial and numerous inconsistencies in his present story.

    Like

  35. Eleonora permalink
    July 20, 2015 10:16 am

    Helena, thank you very much for your good investigations, as they always are. What a big target talented kids can be and especially in the entertainment world or in sports. I think too that Wade made a terrible mistake and needs more therapy. MJ is innocent.

    Like

  36. July 20, 2015 3:09 am

    “My thoughts are that Wade’s memories of Michael molesting or raping him are false, but there is underlying trauma from an incident that happened much earlier.” – Anonymous Lady

    Oh, your life story adds a lot to understanding Robson’s situation and thank you very much for your reflections on it. Yes, your diagnosis looks like the most likely one and you put it very well – his memories of Michael are false, but there still seems to be an underlying trauma there from Robson’s earlier experience. You can see it with a naked eye that he doesn’t believe his own memories and it was noted by several experts on behavior analysis.

    “If his brain is trying to connect Michael to this, he needs more therapy, and needs to get to the root of the problem. Add to it that Wade was a working child in the entertainment industry even after meeting Michael, taking on work as a dancer, and choreographer in LA, and across the world, and it’s the most dangerous line of work for a boy like Wade to get exploited.”

    Right again. It could possibly continue when he was already in the US and found himself again among the same type of people. Excluding Michael of course.

    Like

  37. July 20, 2015 2:43 am

    “Thank you for the article! Nicely done!” – Judy Morris

    Thank you too, but could you help me please with the headline? Since English is a foreign language to me I am not sure about the word “someone else” which was my earlier variant. Now it sounds to me wrong considering that Michael had nothing to do with it, and I changed it for “someone different”. But what would be the correct variant? Please help.

    P.S. And I also think that Wade could be abused in his early childhood – he looked too depressed even when a very small child.

    Like

  38. Anonymous Lady permalink
    July 19, 2015 11:27 pm

    I am remaining anonymous because my comment is going to be rather personal.

    I actually do believe Wade was abused (not by Michael). A lot of youth talent groups very often have p*dophiles creeping around them, so it wouldn’t be surprising if it happened when he was quite young. If it did, and he did a combination of repression (or just forgetting without repression), and was “groomed” by a p*dophile, his memory could be jumbled if he did a memory regression with his therapist.

    When I was 3 years old, I was abused. I don’t remember it, but I found photographs of one of the incidents. The one taking the pictures was the abuser, and he was not pictured. And we found the photos in our basement, but I know it wasn’t anyone in my immediate family (they were planted there). I really do not remember it in the least, but false memories have come up, imagining various people having been the one who did it. I did a memory regression, and the person I imagined having done it I had never met until years after the incident. It was a false memory, because the original memory is just so old, and hard to retrieve. I have yet to properly identify who did it, but I’ve falsely remembered the situation a few times. Memories are very tricky things. There was another child in the photos, and he doesn’t remember anything either. But one thing I do remember is that me and this boy used to “play” (not the usual child-like curiosity kind of play that is normal, but very sexual) up until we were 5 or 6, like we had been taught to do these things. We had been groomed from a young age, and never thought it was weird. Not until I was an adult and said “Oh shit, there is something very wrong here”.

    I was so groomed that when I found child p*rn on a man’s computer when I was a teenager, I didn’t think anything of it. I didn’t think there was anything wrong. I was a teenager, and by then I DID know that p*dophilia was illegal, and wrong, but for some reason I still gave this person the benefit of a doubt. It’s paradoxical, and as an adult I’m like “Why didn’t I see this as a problem?”, when it was. Then it was just like how me and my friend used to “play”, I thought nothing was wrong, despite knowing that p*dophilia was wrong. It’s so perplexing, I know. How is it that it took me until I was 28 years old to realize that that man with the child p*rn was a p*dophile and was in possession of something illegal? I wish I could explain that. Denial? Or did that grooming as a toddler really cause some problems in recognizing right from wrong in the case of child sex?

    My thoughts are that Wade’s memories of Michael molesting or raping him are false, but there is underlying trauma from an incident that happened much earlier. If his brain is trying to connect Michael to this, he needs more therapy, and needs to get to the root of the problem. Add to it that Wade was a working child in the entertainment industry even after meeting Michael, taking on work as a dancer, and choreographer in LA, and across the world, and it’s the most dangerous line of work for a boy like Wade to get exploited.

    I feel for Wade, in a way. This is a confusing thing to go through, and he may have jumped the gun when he should’ve explored his memories more. He really messed up, because he’s really an amazing choreographer and dancer, and now he’s been blackballed from a lot of the industry because of his haste. He made a mistake, and he needs to own up to it.

    Now, Michael has WAY more supporters than haters out there. When the news hit that the case was dismissed, almost all of the comments were relief, and about how Wade was just going after money, and about how people think Michael is innocent. I’ve only met 1 person in my entire lifetime that believed Michael was guilty. Only 1 out of the countless people I’ve met.

    Like

  39. Judy Morris permalink
    July 19, 2015 6:00 pm

    I think you are right Helena, someone abused Wade, but it wasn’t Michael. It could have been an adult who was overseeing the dance troupe. It could have been anyone. And, I don’t know why, Liberace was never brought up on charges. He should have been! By the way Thank you for the article! Nicely done!

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: