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AN OPEN LETTER TO HATERS about the “semen” subject, Stalinist regime and Michael Jackson’s problem with disciplining children

February 8, 2011

This post is meant to close the highly ridiculous “semen” subject which has been given  incredibly much time, space and attention here. When Lynette is back from her work in two days I will ask her to post a continuation of the story in the same post that she already started – to keep it tidy and compact in one place. This will allow Lynette to fully express her views there while I intend to close the subject altogether now by making this open letter to haters –  in the hope that they will go back to their own premises and drone on that semen issue there until their dying day ( if they like) – while we in the meantime move on.

First a couple of words about my correspondence with hater D.

When her comments were blocked due to numerous requests from our readers, she sent me a message which I found truly remarkable from the linguistic point of view. Part of it is found in the comments section where it was eventually released, but over here let me present it in full – please appreciate its style and finesse of expression (the text is intact except for our usual corrections of words not to be mentioned with Michael’s pure name):

Message:

You people are really pathetic. All of a sudden you are blocking comments. Just PATHETIC, fear-based low IQ imbeciles. After all, anyone who’d believe Michael Jackson was innocent after repeated accusations of pedxxxxxlia and multimillion dollar payoffs has got to be the dumbest person alive.

Don’t bash someone’s integrity and block comments when they try to defend themselves. That is gutter level behavior.

So pathetic. Here is what I’d written in response, you completely spineless imbeciles… Jesus Christ, it’s like being Galileo trying to convince people against heliocentrism!

***********
DNA is in every cell of the body. This is biology 101. The so-called ‘male DNA’ in this case was extracted from semen. It’s in black and white in the court documents. From a cheek cell, a karyotype can be made and the sex chromosomes will prove if someone is male or female. (However, I doubt a semen stain–given its obvious origins (from the penis) and unique composition–needs clarification as to whether it is from a male or female; determining sex would just be redundant.)

Everyone knows this and don’t mince my words for your own ridiculous goals.

‘Male DNA’, as used in the Defense’s “14 items” motion, was a not-so-clever euphemism for semen. The Prosecution stated where this ‘DNA’ came from. It’s not a difficult concept to understand. For ease of use, female DNA would be the opposite to male DNA, as in secretions. But of course a buccal cell from the cheek found in a saliva stain could show female origins. But neither were found. Case closed.

It was semen. Those are the facts; deal with them.

@ Blaine:

You know, Blaine (and, by the way, I know you aren’t gay but I’ve formed a habit in calling you this name so it won’t end), I have more than just 5 people commenting on my blog. A lot of people read all the time, they just don’t comment. Which is find. Popularity is not always a sign of good taste…. Oh, and you cannot make a powerpoint disproving something you were not a witness to. That is silly!

I call Michael Jackson a pxxx because I believe this to be true and his actions belie his protestations of innocence. But I am not a space cadet, so I fully realize that belief is not proof enough. I fully acknowledge this. But I can show reasonable suspicion and circumstantial evidence, and I am sure if I had handled the 2005 case, Michael Jackson would be in prison as we speak.

***********
You people are the lowest of the low. Grow a spine, some testicles, and learn how to debate like adults. It’s pathetic.

This is your blog, yes, but I find it ironic that the Russian blog owner bemoans Stalinist regimes and attributes that way of conduct to Michael’s situation and yet behaves exactly in the ways she is purportedly against.

Do not bash my character and integrity and leave me without a defense. If you have a problem with what I write or me, you can say it to me on my blog or email me through the blog. Cowardice is despicable on adults.

Take care,
Desiree”

My reply to her message was:

“As you remember blocking your comments was the joint desire of all our readers. My position is slightly different – I personally would give you all the rope to hang yourself with. The language you are using is your first step in this direction, so I would very much want to make your message public for everyone to see how far you can go.

However first I need to understand in what meaning that male DNA was used by you. Here I rely on Lynette as even if I wanted to read your writings I can’t now because of my brain concussion – which doesn’t allow me even to come up to a computer (the doctor’s advice I am breaking now).

So if this was a misunderstanding and ‘male DNA’ was used by you as a euphemism for sperm your message will be released.

Helena”

About semen, “male DNA” and who used it as euphemism and who didn’t

To deal with the body of the letter and clarify the meaning of “male DNA” in the context of the discussion between Prosecution and Defense I typed and analyzed three main documents about this dirty laundry business in the following post: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/dirty-laundry-and-cocaine-in-michaels-home-it-was-a-set-up/ . Not to repeat myself I will use only short quotations from the first two documents:

In the DEFENSE’S MOTION OF JAN. 18, 2005 the Defense uses the general term “male DNA”, thus doing a disservice to Michael as this general term includes  semen, blood, saliva and other body fluids and it is not clear what exactly was found where. The Defense speaks of:

  • three male DNA on the mattress out of which one belongs to Michael, the other two are unidentified.
  • the forth male DNA found in a separate sheet which may belong to any of the guests (while no Michael’s DNA is found there).
  • Michael’s underwear with a bloodstain and cocaine on top of it, with no cocaine found in the blood
13.   DNA of Anyone other than Mr. Jackson
There are two DNA reports in this case. The first DNA report says 3 male DNA were found on Mr. Jackson’s mattress. Of these 3 males, one was identified as Mr. Jackson, aka “male 1”. The remaining 2 males were not identified. However, the report says that these 2 males are not the alleged victims in this case, i.e. Gavin Arvizo and Star Arvizo. 

The second DNA report says a fourth male DNA was found in bed sheets. The bed sheets presumably were found in a laundry bag, along with underwear. The fourth male is unknown, but is not the alleged victim, i.e. Gavin Arvizo or Star Arvizo.

14.  Underwear & Cocaine  

Mr. Jackson’s underwear was found in a laundry bag, along with the bed sheets (discussed in section 13 above). This underwear had bloodstain and cocaine. A forensic lab for the Prosecution tested this underwear. No cocaine, however, was found in the blood.

http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/011805notmotexc14.pdf

The second document is the PROSECUTION’S OPPOSITION TO THE DEFENSE’S MOTION dated Jan 20, 2005 and Jan 31, 2005 (combined) where The Prosecution uses the words “semen” and DNA in the following context:

  • they found one pair of someone’s semen-soiled underpants in the dirty laundry bag
  • and three semen stains on the mattress, one of which was Michael’s
  • the Prosecution didn’t intend to take the DNA on the mattress to court
  • but they wanted to present there some male’s semen-soiled underpants.
  • Michael’s underpants did not have semen but were soiled with blood, Demerol and cocaine. Knowing that the cocaine business was only a set-up on their part the Prosecution didn’t press the subject further and focused only on the Demerol.
Item 13. DNA of Anyone Other Than Defendant  

Several semen stains were recovered from defendant’s bed mattress and from a pair of underpants seized from his home, from which DNA was extracted. The profile identified as “male 1” is the defendant’s. The other profiles found on the bed and the underpants are not his. The sources are unidentified. The DNA on the bed will not be referred to by the People.

However the DNA in the underpants suggest that Jackson kept a pair of soiled underpants belonging to another male, just as he did with Gavin, thereby corroborating Gavin’s testimony. We do intend to introduce that pair of underpants and the DNA results.

Insofar as Item 13 includes semen stains on one pair of underpants that, from DNA analysis of that stain, apparently was worn by a male other than Mr. Jackson or either of the two young sibling boys (a  lie!) who figure in the pending prosecution, its relevance as evidence corroborating the complaining witness’s evidence that Defendant retained his soiled underwear rather than return it to him seems self-evident.

Item 14. Underwear and Cocaine 

One pair of underpants recovered from Jackson’s residence had a blood stain. The stain contained cocaine and Demerol. The DNA profile from that stain is in fact defendant’s. It is believed that Jackson has been a Demerol addict for many years and a significant amount of evidence supports that belief. That evidence includes a near-empty vial found on this property with the label torn off containing Demerol; a letter from a Fr. Farschian in Miami promising defendant help in curing him of his “D” addiction; a doctor who acknowledged having delivered him Demerol to this house and numerous witnesses who speak of his addiction. In addition defendant has publicly acknowledged in the past that he had become addicted to prescription medications, and that he required medical intervention for that addiction.

And the jury should be allowed to ponder the fact that defendant evidently desired to preserve, in the same container, both his own soiled underwear and underwear soiled with the semen of another male”.

http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/013105pltmotrd14itms.pdf

So the whole of the evidence boils down to the following:

  • 2 male unidentified semen stains on the mattress (which the Prosecution didn’t want to take to court for some reason)
  • 1 pair of semen-soiled underwear of unknown male (which they did want to take to court to prove that Michael had a hobby of keeping someone else’s dirty underwear)

The ‘sheet with male DNA’ was raised only once and only by the Defense but dropped by the Prosecution (for some reason) so this makes us think it could indeed be urine, saliva, etc. – just as Lynette suggested it in her post.

Let me repeat it – all we have is 2 semen stains on the mattress and one pair of semen-soiled underpants from some male found in a bag with dirty laundry.

Now if the above evidence agitates too many people and really means something formidable to them, I’m afraid that usual over-the-counter sedatives will not help them and they should seek professional help in order to cure their case.

About us as low IQ imbeciles, pathetic and dumbest persons alive, the lowest of the low who need to grow a spine and learn to debate like adults

No comment yet here. We need some time to work on all of our above mentioned deficiencies.

About the Stalinist regime, bashing the hater’s character, blocking her comments and going to her blog

Thank you for this kind invitation of course, but due to terrible lack of time and need to attend to many other issues I’m afraid I have to decline it.

As regards blocking our adversary’s and other haters’ comments in this blog I must admit that there is some controversy of opinion between Michael’s supporters (including my own co-admins) and me.

Haters call me a Stalinist if I block them, while my co-eds call me too lax as they are categorically against seeing haters’ comments in the blog. They say that people coming here do not expect haters to be given so much power in our own territory – they come here for credible information and not tabloid trash lavishly spread here by Michael’s detractors.

This is quite a dilemma for me as I do really notice that I tend to give haters more freedom than they deserve, don’t refute each of their lies in the comments section thinking that their falsity is tale telling enough to speak for itself…

Everything in life has a meaning

This strange desire to let haters enjoy more freedom than they should in this blog and my constant disputes with the co-eds over this problem have really bothered me for some time.  The conclusion I finally came to upon hard thinking this over was somewhat unexpected – it suddenly bridged with Michael’s attitude towards children and helped me to arrive at an understanding which wouldn’t be possible if my own circumstances were different.

Let me explain.

Those people who haven’t had enough of something in their own lives tend to overdo it when they are given a chance to finally have it. If you haven’t gone through the natural process of acquiring certain habits and learning what it is like since your early childhood you tend to be overzealous in it when you finally get it. You simply don’t know what it’s like and when your time comes to enjoy it you take it to extremes – that’s the point.

Many people must have experienced it in their lives:

  • If your family offended you with scorn, ridicule or neglect you will cry in your bed and wake up every morning with a promise that when you  grow up you will always respect the wishes of your children and give them all the attention they need (to the point that they might even abuse your kindness).
  • If you had to work hard when you were young you will give your child as much free time for games and leisure as you possibly can – to make up for what you yourself missed when you were a child (and possibly spoil them by making them lazy this way).
  • For those who lived in poverty their most cherished dream would be gaining great wealth and when they do acquire it there will be no stopping them in their flamboyant style (they just overdo it like all “the new rich” because they just don’t know “what it’s like to be rich” and that wealth may be “quiet” as it is for those who grew up in well-off families).
  • If you haven’t had enough freedom in your life you will tend to overdo it too, while those who have known it since childhood will take the discipline and balance of interests that go with any freedom in a natural way – they will not be too touchy about setting certain limits for others and not allow freedom for some endanger freedom for the rest.

Same with Michael.

All through his childhood and adolescence the only thing he heard was NO to everything he wanted – NO to free time, NO to making choices, NO to communication with friends of whom he had NONE because he always worked, NO to games, NO to leisure time, NO to respect for himself, NO to his sense of dignity which even a small child needs, NO attention from those he loved, NO affection, NO nothing…

Like all children who grow up in a setting like that he probably gave himself a vow that when he grew up he would never, ever in his life treat his own or any children in the same way. You know what it’s like – if your parents beat you when you are small you come to hate it and promise that you will never in your life physically touch your own child – which results in your fear even to slighly slap him or raise your voice at him (so that the small rascal knows it and uses your weakness for his own benefit).

Even Michael’s children admitted in their interview with Oprah that his oldest son Prince “could get away with anything”, while for the rest of them it was different as Michael  finally turned into a strict father. Michael learned how to discipline children but his learning process was slow, difficult and painful for him due to his own life experience…

Michael felt that he simply couldn’t say NO to children who flocked into his room or crawled into his bed – it was impossible for him to shut the door in their face or drive them away because he was afraid to hurt their feelings and see them cry – it brought over him a tide of his own negative emotions and pain he experienced in his own childhood.

Forget this BS about him being sexually abused in childhood – he was abused in his childhood, but not sexually. He was abused physically, mentally, psychologically by his father’s callousness, lack of affection, humiliation and continuous beatings which made Michael learn to value a kid’s smile and a happy look on the child’s small face more than anything else life could possibly offer him.

Michael’s attitude towards children was formed in his own tender age and never changed since then – saying ‘no’ to a child, seeing him crying, hurt and offended was something too painful for him as it reminded him of his own pain. Saying ‘no’ to a child was like saying ‘no’ to his own self and betraying  everything that made up the essence of his life. It made him  overprotective in treating children, forced him to give them too many rights over himself, too much affection, too little discipline and left him at a loss when they  misbehaved, and not knowing how to restrain them.

His affectionate attitude towards these small, vulnerable and helpless creatures for whom he developed a natural protective attitude since his own unhappy chidhood could not make him promise to “never associate with children again” as the society demanded it – it was the equivalent of a suicide to him or depriving him of life as such.

This is exactly the callous thing that the world wanted of Michael – and when he didn’t comply it harassed and ridiculed him, humiliated him and stripped him of his dignity, drove him away from his home and his country and physically ruined his life.

People deprived him of what he valued most in life – to stay around children who needed his golden heart, warmth and kindness, his protection from the cruel world of adults, his generosity and affection –  thus killing his spirit and making him turn into a shadow of his former self. Luckily they didn’t manage to take his own children away from him and if it weren’t for them he would never have survived.

The constant fear that those beasts could deprive him of his own children was the nightmare which haunted Michael all during the trial and killed his sleep for the rest of his life. Taraborrelli remembers that Michael woke up at night screaming in terror because he was having nightmares that his children were being taken away from him. The fear was so big that he was afraid to fall asleep.

And this makes you wonder whether it was indeed propofol which killed Michael or the people who had driven him to this terrible insomnia and constant fear for the future of his children…

* * * * * * *

P.S. As to my own complex of being too lax with haters I will also try to improve my ways and discipline them well enough so that they either leave here or learn how to behave themselves.

91 Comments leave one →
  1. lcpledwards permalink
    March 3, 2011 9:34 pm

    Well, it turns out that our adversary isn’t the only person who thought that MJ was gay! This article titled “Michael Jackson: The Psychoanalysis Of A Very Queer Man” was published in January 2004. Have your barf bags ready as you read this!

    Al Sharpton was right when he said to the kids at MJ’s memorial that the only thing that was “strange” were THE THINGS THAT MJ HAD TO DEAL WITH!!

    http://us.altermedia.info/media-watchdog/michael-jackson-the-psychoanalysis-of-a-very-queer-man_455.html

    Like

  2. TatumMarie permalink
    February 26, 2011 2:52 am

    It was my understanding that it is illegal to forbid a criminal testimony in a settlement. However, its not illegal to extract a certain amount from the payment if someone does testify in a criminal trial which was not the case in the agreement the family signed. Any agreement can be overturned by a judge if its completely unreasonable.

    Also, I’m happy that it wasn’t just my mind that went on Cochran when it came out in trial that he and Feldman were long time friends. The FBI files show that Cochran tried to report the extortion to the FBI. Feldman was very vocal in pointing ” no one bought anyones silence” because he knew what happened and all lawyers may have thought- you can’t be accused of a crime you were never charged with.

    Like

  3. shelly permalink
    February 15, 2011 5:08 pm

    Sorry, I was talking to the other visitor. Kallman said it’s illegal to have something in a settlement agreement which preclude the accuser to testify in a criminal trial or to speak to the police but it’s perfectly legal to have a notice requirement because the only thing you have to di is to notify the defendant’s lawyer that you are going to speak to the police or to testify. A notice requirement doesn’t preclude you to testify. It proves wjat you said was right.

    Like

  4. visitor permalink
    February 15, 2011 4:23 pm

    @shelly
    i am the one with the orange avatar and the one who asked you to clarify me this comment of yours ” Jordan talked to the DA months after the settlement. It’s in the insurance document. He talked to the DA around March or April.
    I think the Kris Kallman testimony is very interesting because he signed the same kind of agreement.” Again, I didn’t understand what you were trying to say with this.Does this have something to do with my comment to the other “visitor” that proves me wrong? If yes can you explain to me why?

    My comment to the other visitor was this :

    i wonder how you can silence the accuser when everyone know what was going on. Wouldn’t it be better to silence the accuser before the media and the police get the story? Why didn’t Michael do that?Give the money and have them silenced. We have Evan Chander voice saying that if he didn’t get what he wanted there would be a massacre. And indee what a massacre it was. Why didn’t Michael give something then to silence them? Or he prefered first to have his private parts photographed,to be ridiculed, to be humilieted,to be labeled a pedophile and then pay? Poor Jackson with all the money and the power in the world and he couldn’t stop the police from photographing his naked butt and penis.So much for power

    I wonder how can you “silence” the accuser when in the confidential agreement it clearly says that the boy can testify if he wants to.Why didn’t he testify then, or in 2005, or why didn’t his father testify, or why did he uncle refuse to testify?

    I wonder why did Larry Fielman said that “No one bought anyone’s silence” This case went to three separate Grand Juries and those juries didn’t even think to indict Jackson.There weren’t evidence that he did something to anyone except the tales of Jordies and his father.

    “…there was a great deal of trust, not only with Johnnie and Larry because they had a twenty year prior friendship…” So why would Johnnie and Larry ruin their special friendship over Jackson reputation and best interest ? F. it. Let people think whatever they want about Jackson because friendship comes first.

    Jackson had the best lawyers in the world. And one of them was no other than Carl Douglas , who after the 1993 case ,” … we were driving in my car that I was able to buy after the Michael Jackson case, I had a little bit of money on the side (laughter!)… “

    Like

  5. shelly permalink
    February 15, 2011 4:12 pm

    Which visitor are you? The one who use the Douglas quote?

    Like

  6. visitor permalink
    February 15, 2011 3:54 pm

    @thetis7
    didn’t know who he was.

    Can i make a suggestion here. When someone is commeting please state what you think because it is confusing. Talking with riddles or throwing names here and there it doesn’t help it just confuses people. I know it confuses me because i am new here and i slowly beggin to read all the facts.
    For example Shelly you said ” Jordan talked to the DA months after the settlement. It’s in the insurance document. He talked to the DA around March or April.
    I think the Kris Kallman testimony is very interesting because he signed the same kind of agreement.” I didn’t understand what you were trying to say with this. Can you please clarify it to me? Does this have something to do with my comment to the other “visitor” that proves me wrong? If yes can you explain to me why?

    Like

  7. February 15, 2011 3:36 pm

    @visitor Kris Kallman was Blanca Francia’s lawyer. There is no link of Jordan talking to the prosecutors. We know that from the prosecutors who mentioned it in their declination statement. It was also mentioned by Tom Mesereau in one of his filed motions.

    Like

  8. visitor permalink
    February 15, 2011 3:15 pm

    @shelly
    apparently you know more things than i do. Can you give me link of Jordan’s conversatin with the DA? And who is Kris Kallman? Another boy who claimed that Michael molested him and he was paided not to speak. Can give the link of his testimony too.

    Like

  9. February 15, 2011 3:07 pm

    “Poor Jackson with all the money and the power in the world and he couldn’t stop the police from photographing his naked butt and penis. So much for power”

    Visitor, and do you remember the interview Johnnie Cochran gave to Larry King on November 18, 2003? He said there http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0311/18/lkl.00.html:

    KING: Was an arrest warrant issued years ago, Johnnie Cochran?

    COCHRAN: No. There was not. In fact, when I got involved in the case, we had offered — Michael was in Europe as I recall — and he came back, and I told the prosecutors if they wanted him, I would bring him down, because he maintained his innocence and he would come into court, he would come in and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) himself.

    I really don’t know… maybe that was a correct thing to do at the time… but this shattered me. Saying that they offered to bring him down? Didn’t fight tooth and nail for their client not to be arrested, but they offered to bring him down? I really don’t know……

    Like

  10. shelly permalink
    February 15, 2011 2:58 pm

    @visitor

    It’s in the insurance document. He talked to the DA around March or April.

    I think the Kris Kallman testimony is very interesting because he signed the same kind of agreement.

    Like

  11. February 15, 2011 2:52 pm

    “From a legal point of view you can’t ‘silence’ with a settlement.”

    You are right, but the surprising thing is that it is Carl Douglas – who was supposed to be MJ’s defense lawyer – who is saying these crazy things! He knows that he is wrong, because it just cannot be otherwise – he is a lawyer after all – but he is still saying it. It looks like he was given someone else’s text to read.

    Like

  12. visitor permalink
    February 15, 2011 2:52 pm

    @shelly
    I didn’t understand that. What do you mean?

    Like

  13. shelly permalink
    February 15, 2011 2:34 pm

    Jordan talked to the DA months after the settlement.

    Like

  14. visitor permalink
    February 15, 2011 1:41 pm

    @visitor
    i wonder how you can silence the accuser when everyone know what was going on. Wouldn’t it be better to silence the accuser before the media and the police get the story? Why didn’t Michael do that?Give the money and have them silenced. We have Evan Chander voice saying that if he didn’t get what he wanted there would be a massacre. And indee what a massacre it was. Why didn’t Michael give something then to silence them? Or he prefered first to have his private parts photographed,to be ridiculed, to be humilieted,to be labeled a pedophile and then pay? Poor Jackson with all the money and the power in the world and he couldn’t stop the police from photographing his naked butt and penis.So much for power

    I wonder how can you “silence” the accuser when in the confidential agreement it clearly says that the boy can testify if he wants to.Why didn’t he testify then, or in 2005, or why didn’t his father testify, or why did he uncle refuse to testify?

    I wonder why did Larry Fielman said that “No one bought anyone’s silence” This case went to three separate Grand Juries and those juries didn’t even think to indict Jackson.There weren’t evidence that he did something to anyone except the tales of Jordies and his father.

    “…there was a great deal of trust, not only with Johnnie and Larry because they had a twenty year prior friendship…” So why would Johnnie and Larry ruin their special friendship over Jackson reputation and best interest ? F. it. Let people think whatever they want about Jackson because friendship comes first.

    Jackson had the best lawyers in the world. And one of them was no other than Carl Douglas , who after the 1993 case ,” … we were driving in my car that I was able to buy after the Michael Jackson case, I had a little bit of money on the side (laughter!)… “

    Like

  15. shelly permalink
    February 15, 2011 12:15 pm

    From a legal point of view you can’t ‘silence’ with a settlement. You just can give them less reason to testify against your client but you can’t silence them. By the way, if you read old articles from 1994, the defense only had a redacted version of the affidavit a month after the settlement. I don’t think they knew what was the result.

    Like

  16. February 15, 2011 11:29 am

    “We wanted to do all that we could to avoid the possibility that there would be a criminal filing against Michael Jackson, and the reality was we were hopeful that if we were able to “silence” the accuser…’ (Carl Douglas, MJ’s lawyer in 1993)

    This quote from Carl Gouglas is SO OUTRAGEOUS that words fail me.
    IT IS A LIE FROM BEGINNING TO END.

    – They wanted to “avoid a criminal filing against Jackson”?

    I don’t know what THEY wanted to avoid, but Michael Jackson himself and his first lawyer Bert Fields INSISTED on the criminal trial to go first. And if Carl Douglas says such a blatant lie there might be NO DOUBT whatsoever that he – at least he – was working against Michael’s interests in 1993.

    – “if we were able to “silence” the accuser…”?

    The accuser was frightened as hell of the need to go to court and give their testimony there. NONE OF THE CHANDLERS were ever deposed for this reason – because if they had been, the lawyers from Michael’s side would have had the right to be present and ask them questions there.

    Even Maureen Orth says that the Chandler parents were HORRIFIED by the prospect of a criminal trial and this is why they fired Gloria Allred.

    More about it in the 1-5 part series:

    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/11/20/reading-between-the-lines-of-larry-feldmans-speech-the-story-of-gloria-allred-part-2/

    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/reading-between-the-lines-of-larry-feldmans-speech-part-3/

    Like

  17. visitor permalink
    February 15, 2011 4:34 am

    “…in our perspective, you have to remember that there was a companion criminal investigation case going on by both the District Attorney’s office in Los Angeles and Santa Barbara. There had been an occasion where Michael Jackson was examined, and his genitalia was recorded, which was part of an investigation. And that was part of the 300 pound gorilla in the mediation room. We wanted to do all that we could to avoid the possibility that there would be a criminal filing against Michael Jackson, and the reality was we were hopeful that if we were able to “silence” the accuser, that would obviate the need for any concern about the criminal side, so from our perspective there was a great deal of trust, not only with Johnnie and Larry because they had a twenty year prior friendship, there was a tremendous trust with Johnnie and the three judges being recommended. And we were facing the purple gorilla in the room of “If we don’t get this case settled before March, there is a criminal investigation looming, and no one wanted to consider the implications of that as it affected Michael Jackson”…

    Carl Douglas, MIchael Jackson’s lawyer in 1993.

    “Silence the accuser”????

    Like

  18. February 14, 2011 3:39 am

    “I sincerely say that I dont know how to do it here, so sorry dear, if you show me HOW please with LOVE.”

    Sara, I will, but now we will have to wait for David to post all the parts of the Harvard seminar because we shouldn’t interrupt him. When I was making a reply to you I didn’t know that the first part had already been in. So there is ample time for you to make your post.

    I’ll try to send you instructions how to.

    Like

  19. February 14, 2011 1:25 am

    ” I could reprint it saying that the text is yours, but it would be much fairer if you posted on your own and under your own name”
    Helena I dont know where i should post it !! I think David have not finished his post yet and I really cant see any way to post the article in the blog.
    I sincerely say that I dont know how to do it here, so sorry dear, if you show me HOW please with LOVE.

    Like

  20. okunuga permalink
    February 13, 2011 3:46 pm

    It is easy to know a hater from the person that has a doubt about michael on anything,first if after reading charles thomson`s articles or vindicating mj`s blog or even the courts transcript they are still quoting from diane dimond,sunny holstin,maureen orth or other tabloid analyst or said something like the following:I heard from,someone told me that,I still think he`s guilty because I said so,just know for sure that you can not change the person`s mind because he or she is a lost cause,he or she just wants attention by being confrontational and arguementative.secondly D if you feel mj is a P what are you doing on this site please stay on own site.

    Like

  21. February 13, 2011 11:53 am

    Sara, now that David has posted his Harvard part 1 post, you’ll have to wait until he finishes up with all the parts, okay?
    David, sorry for not noticing it was already there!

    Like

  22. February 13, 2011 10:34 am

    “Humans or Devils ”

    Sara, your post is so impressive and so very much about the main issue when it comes to Michael – I mean how people allowed themselves to fall so low as to treat him this way – that I immediately turned you into a “contributor” and urge you to make a separate post of it now.

    I could reprint it saying that the text is yours, but it would be much fairer if you posted on your own and under your own name.

    Please do it.

    P.S. I truly believe that the story of Michael Jackson is actually not the story of MJ at all – it is the STORY ABOUT US and the terrible LESSON all of us should learn at the expense of another person’s life. A godsend of a person – innocent, pure, infinitely talented, forever young and forever beautiful as a human being.

    It is a story of what WE did to him.

    Like

  23. February 13, 2011 12:51 am

    Thank you David for your advice ,actually I did send them alot of Charles Thomson articles ,finaly it did had the effect of alot of doubters mind and many started to have the commen sense after all,Charles Thomson articles arouse the feeling that there is something wrong with the Channdler dysfunctional family,one guy send to me saying ” when I saw the world music awards video all I see is one happy kid sitting on the Goddamn chair’s edge not Jackson’s lap and children can sense danger especially 12 year old boy”

    Like

  24. February 13, 2011 12:36 am

    My love goes to every fighter and defender here on this honorable blog , my classmates realized what did happen to the man in the mirror, I wrote alot of things and articles for my college column in Pennsylvania which other students strudy and write their thoughts about different issues around the world without their personal commentary,then our professor will comment on it,his name is Roger Bringmann.
    He did looked at couples of articles and he said to me “Miss William you are very thoughtful young lady and you looked behind the journalists pack mentality, I hope you join us next year because you are’nt afraid of delicate issues such as Michael Jackson legal problems which is important to comprehend,he was an icon and we dont want our icons to be trashed”

    I will never forget what he said to me,although he is 59years old but he is very very smart and very tough teacher indeed.
    this is what I wrote and I’m being objective here so everyone please comment on it especially Helena I want to know your opinion .

    “Humans or Devils ”

    The story of a man who was misunderstood in a way that no one will ever imagine, he was humiliated, beaten, ridiculed and questioned by the public.
    Michael Jackson’s name was known for the world as their beloved one until a degraded hateful man motivated by jealousy and anger towards the man he accused him for breaking up his family and claimed he molested his 12 year old son.
    However, those allegations changed Jackson’s world and the media started to reveal its own agenda but the viewers never questions their motives and believed their lies with others fairy tales.
    Few understand just how biased the media was in their reporting of the trial, and just how calculated and sensationalist they were throughout it. That negativity sells is something everyone already knows, but in the 2005 child molestation charges against the the world’s most famous person, there seemed to be something that ran far deeper. There was a malice and a blood thirst there that seemed out of the ordinary even by tabloid measurements. And it brings up the very interesting question of what it is that can make thousands of people gang up so completely on one individual. What primal instinct, what fear…can cause us, as a race, to turn into a pitch-fork mob, salivating and roaming at the thought of lynching someone and literally destroying them?

    The question in all of this is not how people became so caught up in preferring fiction over truth, the question is why. Why was it that someone had apparently decided that Michael Jackson did not deserve to be treated like a human being? What was it that made people so provoked by him, and when was it decided that he did not deserve privacy, respect, or compassion? Was it when his face started changing? When he became too feminine for people to apply the set-in-stone rules of gender roles to him that we worship and follow so religiously? Was it when he became the biggest selling artist in history, or when he gained wealth and financial freedom, while the rest of us went to our day jobs that we hated? Was it when he shunned the public eye because of the chaos that would rear its ugly head whenever he stepped foot outside? Was it his creativity, and his passionate and intense outbursts on stage? Or, was it simply, that he mirrored our own mistakes back to us?

    Michael Jackson was an avid spokesperson for children’s rights. His charity work spanned the globe, and he donated millions on a yearly basis. He spoke frequently about love and respect as the healers of our broken planet and most of all, he believed in it. He pointed out the suffering and the wrongdoings on the planet, wrongdoings that largely exist because of our own indifference to them. Having someone mirroring our mistakes and idleness back to us is frightening , and by looking at his generosity and childlike nature, we were reminded that we had lost our own.
    This was something that was incredibly provoking to many, and when provoked and insecure, we are designed to reject. By rejecting the thing that makes us uncomfortable, we hope for the feelings it creates to go away. So Michael Jackson was rejected. Again and again, he was rejected and mocked and crucified by people that were too insecure in their own skin to be able to accept anyone that stood out, and that didn’t fit the mold.
    Michael Jackson danced with an injured back, he toured until he fainted, and he stayed up entire nights at a time, for one reason, and one reason only: the hope that we would finally love and accept him the way he so desperately yearned for. But we would not, and we kept pushing him away.

    Jackson often spoke of how he felt he could not take credit for his songs, as they “would just come to him”, and all he did was write them down. He cited God, and felt that the music was simply being channeled through him by a higher power. To anyone that has ever watched him on stage, his presence is undeniable. In many ways, he may well be considered a creative and musical genius. Those are few and far between, but instead of being fascinated or in awe…we were provoked. We didn’t understand it, didn’t understand his animated way of behaving or his childlike nature, we didn’t understand his visions or his appreciation for the simple things…so we rejected him. Fear is born out of ignorance, and the world was ignorant. And because he already seemed so different from most of us — again geniuses are few and far between — it made sense to most people that he was very likely “strange” in the ways that the tabloids reported, too. He was a thirty-something man that loved water balloon fights; a forty-something that enjoyed climbing trees and as they claim, try to bleach his skin.

    As a society, we worship our social norms so much, that anything that strays for them by definition becomes wrong and undesirable. Michael Jackson did not fit into any of the molds set by society. He was born with dark skin, which whitened with time. He was born with a large, wide nose, that he had changed it to a small and narrow one. He had long hair, a high-pitched voice, and a soft, compassionate side. He was the antithesis of what society defines as “male”, and expects a man to be.
    We raise our sons with toy guns, scrubbed knees and the notion that boys don’t cry. Michael Jackson was not afraid to show his emotions in every aspect of his life, and he was not an image of the macho culture that we so seem to love. His shyness and softer side was cute when he was little, and possibly also in his early teens, but in a fifty year old man? No, that can’t possibly be right. TV told us that’s not how men are supposed to behave. Reject.
    Although the child molestation trial became the final blow to Michael Jackson’s heart, there had been a steady stream of atrocities being written about his private persona for decades, one more vicious than the next. During the twenty years that Michael Jackson was persecuted by the media, no one ever stopped to question the likelihood of what they were reading. Somewhere along the way, we put logics and critical thinking aside and decided that if it’s in print, it must be true. It must be true, because why would anyone lie? What people should be asking themselves is, why would they not? The media is a profit business. It is naive to think that we live in a world devoid of corruption and greed, and the days where the media was a direct reflection of the truth are long gone. What we are left with, are innuendos and cleverly fabricated stories that speak to the morbid fascination and pack animal in all of us, and that are just basic enough to not require reflection.
    In retrospect, a vast majority of what was written on Jackson seems laughable and bizarre.

    According to the press, this is someone that was born a black man but really wants to be a white woman, sleeps in a hyperbarbaric chamber to be able to reach the age of two hundred, rides the roller coaster in his backyard alone in the middle of the night, bought the remains of Joseph Merrick (also known as “The Elephant man”), and takes female hormones to maintain his high-pitched voice. Yet no one ever reacted. No one ever for a second thought “hang on a minute, this can’t possibly be true.” The reason? They wanted it to be true. They needed it to be true, so they could feel collectively part of something. Asking your colleagues or friends if they’ve heard what that Michael Jackson has done now, makes you the center of attention, and it makes you feel part of a group. We are pack animals, we thrive off of others and do not well on our own. We want to belong, to be accepted, to feel appreciated. That was all Michael Jackson ever wanted, too. The only difference is he was never let into the pack.
    So why, then, did an entire planet decide it was okay to throw another fellow human being to the wolves and enjoy watching his demise? As a human race, we are not all good. We can be vindictive, manipulative, greedy and selfish, and all of us WILL put ourselves first if we are put into a life or death situation. We’d just like to believe differently. Michael Jackson… believed differently. It is funny how the one man that for so many years experienced nothing but the absolute worst of other people, was also the one that, unlike the rest of us, never became jaded.
    For someone to be subjected to so much hatred, prejudice, greed and malice, and still not lose faith in humanity…is astonishing. It would have been so easy for him, as it is for all of us, when hurt, to withdraw from the world and grow bitter and cold. The fact that he not only refrained from that, but kept loving this world and everyone in it even more, says everything about the person that he was. And lying about him, judging, hounding and persecuting him and standing by, doing nothing, as he perished….says everything about us.

    To sum up,I’ll quote the well-known Michael Jackson song: “If they say “why, why?” Tell them that it’s human nature

    Like

  25. lcpledwards permalink
    February 13, 2011 12:32 am

    @ Sara
    Here’s a piece of advice for you when dealing with “haters”, “doubters”, “skeptics”, “truth seekers”, or whoever. For the 2005 trial, tell them to read Charles Thomson’s “most shameful episode in journalistic history” article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-thomson/one-of-the-most-shameful_b_610258.html

    For the 1993 case, tell them to read the article he wrote after Evan Chandler’s suicide: http://charlesthomsonjournalist.blogspot.com/2009/11/evan-chandler-suicide-higlights-media.html

    Both of those articles succinctly, yet accurately describe the allegations in perfect detail, and will erase all doubts that most reasonable people will have. If they still have doubts, then tell them to prove to you that MJ is guilty! It’s not up to us to prove he’s innocent, but up to them to prove he’s guilty! Tell them to either put up or shut up!

    Like

  26. February 13, 2011 12:23 am

    ” Is a person a hater if he is just asking a question of doubt? Or wants to know the truth but is still messed up like many of us were when we believed (or half-believed) false media stories? What if a man comes here in search for answers to his own doubts – and we “ban” him because of his very first question?”

    Helena its very fair to say that we need to address every issue and doubt every hater or person have so we can provide them the facts they need and give them clear picture of what really happen during 1993 case because this is the problem we have, every hater will use this “settlement” as sign of guilt or even make them suspicious about the 1993 case.
    To be honest I did have hell of time trying to give them ” the doubters” every breath I had just to convince alot of people to the facts and basic important details about the 1993 case,and I didnt spend much time with the Arvizo case because the whole trial shouldnt brought to court, I swear to God the Arvizo claims were ridiculous that I thought we were watching some kind of farce although the whole thing was hell for one pure person Michael.

    Like

  27. February 12, 2011 4:56 am

    “what deep seated self esteem issues compel you to reply to vindictive hater emails instead of merely deleting them?”

    Chocolate Starfish, I’ve already answered your question – just a few comments below, when you were still “Fantom”.

    Like

  28. February 12, 2011 3:35 am

    “but what deep seated self esteem issues do you have that compel you to reply to a hater’s insult ridden email rather than deleting it?”

    Fantom, in this particular case I wanted the readers to see our hater in all her beauty and use her own message to close the discussion once and for all. I am really surprised I have to explain it to you – it is self-evident, isn’t it?

    Like

  29. Chocolate Starfish permalink
    February 12, 2011 12:27 am

    @vindicatemj

    Please don’t take this the wrong way, because I mean it with L.O.V.E, but what deep seated self esteem issues compel you to reply to vindictive hater emails instead of merely deleting them?

    They have nothing to add and nobody would ever read their “arguments” if you didn’t post them here. Nobody goes to their silly blogs apart from a handful of deluded anti-fans. You are just giving them oxygen.

    They are trying to goad you and unfortunately you react every time. This site is becoming reactive instead of proactive, we should be deciding what is discussed here, not them.

    Like

  30. Fantom permalink
    February 11, 2011 11:00 pm

    @vindicatemj

    Please don’t take this the wrong way, because I mean it with L.O.V.E., but what deep seated self esteem issues do you have that compel you to reply to a hater’s insult ridden email rather than deleting it? We need to be proactive in our discussions on Mike, not reactive. These haters are just goading you and you seem to fall for it every time.

    We need to focus on the positive about Mike, and let these hater “arguments” just fall by the wayside. Let’s face it, if you didn’t feature their views here nobody, apart from the very few readers of their dreary blogs, would even know they existed.

    Like

  31. ares permalink
    February 11, 2011 12:02 pm

    @Fantom
    It’s funny eh. Mike’s fan should always be above those things.They should always be those who must be carefoul, never say things that cannot be proven or that are based on tabloid. But the haters can do,say, act as they want, right Fantom?There are not rules for them. They can slander MJ, call his fans names, have trashy book and tabloid stories as their source and present them as factual.Αnd when all those things don’t work, then it cames to the usual “Mike and his fans should always be above all those things”. Isn’t that a bit hypocritical or is it a way to make Mike’s fan feel guilty for having the nerve ones in a while use a tabloid story? I think it’s the second one.

    Like

  32. Alison permalink
    February 11, 2011 11:59 am

    @ Helena
    ” the concept of “private mail” is very much limited here – being a Russian I have to defend myself from possible accusations of being a “spy” or whatever and thus have to do everything in the most trasparent way which is humanly possible.”

    That sentence hit me. I am sorry that is how you are made to feel by the world. I hope its only sometimes not all the time.

    I also think its important to be transparent and careful about everything because of the topic discussed a lot of the time – p..lia. You mentioned it sort of once. In our exploration for information about the allegations, the bad players et.c, the deeper we go into it the more we must also remember to be careful not to let our eagerness to vindicate Michael let us inadvertently access dodgy sites or in any way bring trouble on ourselves by our search words or anything, tho innocently. My Norton antivirus system has icons on it about verifiable sites but its not totally reliable because it also marks some sites as dodgy that it just doesn’t know about and i am not convinced it would know a dodgy site if it had the right electronic whatever stuff on it, however I generally steer clear unless I know independently its OK. I know you and the Co-admins and probably most people here will be very aware, just thought it good to mention just in case it helps someone, especially as haters seem to be posting links et.c.

    Like

  33. February 11, 2011 9:39 am

    “I agree with the previous poster about posting private emails. It is the kind of thing that haters engage in, and it shouldn’t be done here. It just makes us look cheap and petty, which we aren’t.”

    Fantom, read rule #4 of our blog and you will probably realize that the concept of “private mail” is very much limited here – being a Russian I have to defend myself from possible accusations of being a “spy” or whatever and thus have to do everything in the most trasparent way which is humanly possible.

    That is why there is no such thing like “private mail” here at all – ALL THE MAIL is read by all my co-admins and all my own answers to my correspondents can be published in the open unless I ask them not to. The thing is that I never write things behind somebody’s back which I cannot repeat in the face of these people.

    This is a specific feature of this blog and all haters should know it.

    Whenever my correspondents make a note that what they are writing to me is not for the public eye I always adhere to the privacy rule and ALWAYS keep my promise – even if a former friend turns into an opponent.

    A promise is a promise and should never be broken independent of the circumstances.

    However if a hater chooses to insult my co-eds and me and then asks to keep it between ourselves their request will be rejected and all their filth can be published in the open without even a second thought on my part.

    Like

  34. February 11, 2011 9:22 am

    “Excellent rule, but why not ban them altogether? They have nothing constructive to add and merely distract from the task at hand.”

    Fantom, I truly believe that banning “all haters” is a very dangerous road to take – because it is we who have to decide who is a hater and who is not. This decision is dangerous for us , not for them….

    Is a person a hater if he is just asking a question of doubt? Or wants to know the truth but is still messed up like many of us were when we believed (or half-believed) false media stories? What if a man comes here in search for answers to his own doubts – and we “ban” him because of his very first question?

    This is exactly the way all purges start – first the most outspoken have to go, than those who venture a question of doubt, then those who are thought to have such questions, then those whose silence raises suspicion while the whole crowd is loud in their hate towards somebody, then those who try to avoid the crowd are looked upon with mistrust – just because they want to live a quiet life of their own – in short, once it starts there is no end to it….

    This is why I try to give the benefit of the doubt to everyone coming here and try to be patient with him until the very last moment – when he shows himself to be a totally rabid hater or anti-fan. Knowing that you’ve have done your best in treating a person leaves your conscience clear – you know that you’ve really tried and have nothing to blame yourself for when you finally have to part with this person.

    If none of your trust and goodwill worked and all you got in reply is a nickname of a “weakling” – then the time comes to show the hater his real place. Then you can ban him, make innocent fun of him, turn his essence inside out and back – in short do whatever you think fit, because he asked for it himself and cannot complain that he wasn’t warned. He WAS warned and if a cream cake is suddenly thrown into his face he simply cannot say he didn’t know what was awaiting him……

    Like

  35. Suzy permalink
    February 11, 2011 4:58 am

    @ Fantom

    Please read Rule Nr 4 in the Rules section! Everybody who is posting here is in clear or should be in clear about the rules. So there’s nothing “gutter tactics” in it. This blog is totally open about its policy, so everybody who is sending e-mails to the admins should be aware of it and use language that she or he wouldn’t be ashamed of if her or his e-mail would be published.

    Like

  36. Fantom permalink
    February 11, 2011 3:17 am

    @lpcledwards

    I agree with the previous poster about posting private emails. It is the kind of thing that haters engage in, and it shouldn’t be done here. It just makes us look cheap and petty, which we aren’t. When defending Mike we need to keep our dignity at all times, not engage in gutter tactics like our adversaries. We have time and the truth on our sides.

    Like

  37. Fantom permalink
    February 11, 2011 3:08 am

    @vindicatemj

    Excellent rule, but why not ban them altogether? They have nothing constructive to add and merely distract from the task at hand.

    Like

  38. February 10, 2011 11:04 pm

    “we have nothing to fear from the haters. Eventually, their ignorance will devour them. However, it is important to continue to debunk all the lies propagated over the years about Michael.”

    Truthmarathons, I absolutely agree. However just give me some time to recuperate and joining all our forces we will go on doing the debunking job.

    In the meantime I’ve supplemented Rule # 5 of our blog with a warning – here it is:

    RULE 5:

    In order to protect our readers from name-calling, continuous reference to our low IQ and typical but unsubstantiated accusations of Michael’s fans of being “rabid” all such and similar comments will be erased as boring, monotonous and completely meaningless.

    Comments from haters will remain in the blog only in case they contain some factual material which requires examination on our part and may become ground for our common research.

    Haters should know that they are not invited to this blog but if they do come and behave themselves they will be tolerated – if they wish to take part in a constructive discussion and are ready to accept their mistakes.

    WARNING: If they start misbehaving themselves the administrator and co-eds of this blog reserve the right for themselves to do what they think fit with such intruders. It will be nothing much – just some innocent fun like pushing them into pools with cold water, playing funny games or throwing water baloons at them from our balconies and the like.

    Like

  39. truthmarathons permalink
    February 10, 2011 5:31 pm

    Thank you for always presenting the truth. I agree, we have nothing to fear from the haters. Eventually, their ignorance will devour them. However, it is important to continue to debunk all the lies propagated over the years about Michael. We must always strive to correct those who blindly repeat stories that the medialoid love to keep in the news. Michael is no longer here to defend himself, so it is up to us to take a stand and show the world that the media is complicit in attempting to destroy this gentle, loving man.

    Like

  40. February 10, 2011 3:24 pm

    “I also think it will be kind of helpful to have some kind of “charter” that in simple language and as few words as possible presents our alternative narrative of Michael’s life.”

    AnnieDomino, you are absolutely right – writing the true story of Michael’s life is the ultimate goal of this blog. This is exactly what I had in mind from the very beginning and wanted to do in the end – put all the facts which are randomly scatterred here and there now into a logical string and present it as a summary story. It is a top important thing to do as most of us – co-admins – already forgot how many important facts we’ve already found to prove Michael’s innocence. And finding them again scatterred all over the blog is no easy job (even for us).

    So this is a separate thing which should be done and in not too distant future too.

    However now we are still in the midst of an investigation which was delayed due to numerous urgent things like the Discovery disaster program, Murray’s prelims, various distractions from our constant haters, etc. When I get a little better I hope to resume this work in full measure.

    Like

  41. AnnieDomino permalink
    February 10, 2011 3:10 pm

    I guess I am just advocating the simplest way to vindicate Michael. I think of Jordan’s confession as the “silver bullet”. I also think it will be kind of helpful to have some kind of “charter” that in simple language and as few words as possible presents our alternative narrative of Michael’s life.And this should be posted on all the fan websites. I am South African and I think of the “Freedom Charter”, which inspired my country’s fight for liberation from Apartheid. I don’t support everything it says but I know what it says. Most South Africans do! Or the “Nicene Creed” I say in church every Sunday which outlines the doctrine of my church – and most mainstream Christian churches for that matter. I could recite it in my sleep. These things have a lot of power. It will create unity among us and a simple, easy to refer to case for MJ’s defence. The haters have been remarkably successful in spreading their version of MJ’s life. The average person out there still believes that MJ lightened his skin, did not have sex with his wives, died a drug addict, was broke when he died, etc…They believe it because it has been repeated over and over again. We should do the same – repeat ourselves in simple terms until we create a bit of balance.

    Like

  42. Lezlie permalink
    February 10, 2011 1:42 am

    @youtoobrutus

    Well said. I totally agree with you.

    Like

  43. shelly permalink
    February 10, 2011 12:26 am

    @zeromarcy

    I think you need to look at the big picture. There was 1 billion people who watched the memorial, how many of these people really hates him? Not all the 1 billion people were fans, but the very large majority of them doesn’t hate him. They have question but it ends there.
    You shouldn’t forget that we are on Internet, lots of people don’t react the same way on Internet and real life because it’s much easier to lie, hate and be an asshole on Internet than in real life.

    Like

  44. zeromarcy permalink
    February 10, 2011 12:26 am

    Carm : if jordan is living under another name sure it’s after 2006 (when he sued his father)
    http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/decisions/appellate/a0422-05.opn.html

    Like

  45. Carm permalink
    February 10, 2011 12:12 am

    @ Suzy
    “I’m afraid that Jordan isn’t this innocent in all this. He might have proclaimed MJ’s innocence to friends as an adult, but he claimed he molested him while interviewed by authorities and a psychologist back in 1993.”

    Jordie had been coached and rehearsed by Barry Rothman and Evan Chandler in telling his story of molestation to the psychologist, according to Geraldine Hughes. As a youngster he felt he had no choice but to tow the line. Much of the language used in the declaration is not that of a 13 yr. old and it is clear it had been orchestrated by someone else. Since Evan Chandler had a temper and could be violent Jordie was probably afraid of what would happen if he didn’t obey his father. I don’t think kids this age have the maturity to make good decisions anyway, especially when adults are behind them.
    Also, I believe that Tom Mesereau said somewhere that Jordie is living under an assumed name. Unfortunately I can’t find that link.

    Like

  46. zeromarcy permalink
    February 10, 2011 12:11 am

    @shelly i said that because many of them watched the memorial just “for fun”.

    Like

  47. February 9, 2011 8:30 pm

    Nobody has even posted the public information about these people here or even discussed contacting them and yet this is considered “stalking.” They just want to make MJ fans feel guilty, which is easy because MJ fans are nicer people; the same as they try when they talk about how Michael Jackson “espoused certain ideals” – basically, let me behave in whichever way I wish, but don’t call me out on my bullshit because you’re supposed to be the better person.

    And it always strikes me how afraid some people are of confronting things, lest they find anything there that makes them uncomfortable.

    For a long time MJ fans didn’t seem to want to discuss things like his porn or the liquour in his home or anything like that – it made them uncomfortable, it clashed with the image of MJ they had in their head. This of course lead to the haters being given the freedom to run around claiming his art books were in fact his pornography. Now of course you get things like this:

    http://lacienegasmiled.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/michael-jacksons-porn/

    Completely honest and open.

    Which is why I love this site.

    Some fans also seem even afraid to discuss the court cases as though they might find something there that might unsettle them. This has lead to some ignorance among MJ fans and lets the media get the right to say whatever they want to say as well as the crazy haters who feel they can tell people anything because nobody will fact check it. I have no idea why fans have to act like we have anything to fear; we don’t. The haters are the ones who fear facts which is why they choose to ignore Jesus Salas’ statements about who used MJ’s bedroom when he was away.

    People who are afraid of what they might find are the people who do not wish to discuss Jordie or Gavin now.

    It also reminds me about Macauley Culkin back in 2003-2005. The media at the time went crazy with the idea that Mac would NOT testify for Mike, they kept repeating that as well as other stories about how Liz Taylor, Liza etc were not showing support publicly (lies). They wanted to portray MJ as someone that everyone had abandoned because they were all suspicious about him and believed he did it. But they really really did not want Mac to testify. The same way these crazy haters do not wish info on Jordie and Gavin to be discusse. Because they were afraid. They knew the second Mac would get on the stand all their fanfictions and insane crap printed about Mac and Michael’s relationship would be over.

    They get angry at this stuff because their theories can only exist in a vacuum where reality and even these people they claim to be obsessed with protecting are irrelevant (as Evan Chandler said), and real information (Jordie emancipation, Evan beating Jordie, Evan dying alone, Gavin’s current name, etc) threatens everything they’re about.

    Like

  48. lynande51 permalink
    February 9, 2011 8:02 pm

    To the best of my knowledge the Chandlers were the first ones that said that Michael Jackson fans were calling them with death threats and yet only one fan was ever arrested for contacting them. That fan was Denise Pfieffer from the UK. She was a young woman, 23 I believe, that was orphaned and saw Michael as a father figure. She was distrubed there was no doubt about that but she went to the Chandler home unarmed, knocked on the door and wanted to talk to them. She faltered became nervous when confronted by Ray Chandler with a gun stuck in the back of his pants and took off. He chased her down and grabbed her purse and held her there until the police arrived.He was the one that frightened her not the other way around. It seems odd to me that with the telephone technology the way it was in 1993 and 1994 they could not track down any of the other “callers” and have them arrested because to call someone and threaten them on the phone even from another state or country is a violation of a Federal Statute. Many of these people would have been arrested if it were true that these phone calls were occuring.In 1993 and 1994 the telephone company could trace any calls coming in or going out from a phone line. It took less than a minute and the person would be caught. With that knowledge it tells me that the “death threats” were quite possibly greatly exagerated by the Chandler’s and the media to excuse their not testifying.

    Like

  49. visitor permalink
    February 9, 2011 7:38 pm

    @Suzy @Youtoobrutus

    Wow, you are on fire tonight and i completely agree with what you are saying. That whole story with psycho fans ready to hurt people for Michael is just media bs. Conrad Murray, the Arvizos,the Chandlers, Bashir,DD and so on and so on, are all fine. No one hurt them in any way. This “crazy fan” story is media and haters way to explain why those people don’t talk.Yeah right.

    Like

  50. February 9, 2011 7:15 pm

    @Suzy

    Both Jordan and Gavin could and can live a peaceful life, despite of many fans knowing where they live and by what name they go now (actually Jordan didn’t even have to change his name)

    Exactly. Hell, Murray killed Michael Jackson and seems to live a fearless life, even going so far as staging photo ops outside MJ’s tomb, a place where any MJ fan could find him without any shame or fear. The idea that psycho MJ fans will come after them is something only propagated by the Ray Chandler’s of the world who wish for us to believe that they can’t even go to court to testify and put their abusers in prison for their own safety (Jordie was less afraid about taking his own really abusive father to court for a restraining order in 2005) and yet Jordie wasn’t afraid of letting the media know he was in Nebraska in 2005.

    It’s interesting to me as always that the people who claim to be doing these things for the benefit of Jordie and Gavin and Mac, Wade, Brett, again have no interest in how they’re doing right now. They seem afraid in fact of anything actually really about them being discussed, in new evidence coming to light, best let’s stick to everything the media has said in 1993 and pretend nothing after that ever happened.

    It’s okay for Mike’s private life to be utterly exposed and for them to rake through every single piece of trash in his home, of course.

    Like

  51. Suzy permalink
    February 9, 2011 6:45 pm

    @ Carm

    Jordie’s safety, possibly even his life, would be in danger.

    I’m not sure. Crazy fans could harm him now as well. Despite of what the media claims MJ fans aren’t that crazy and dangerous. Both Jordan and Gavin could and can live a peaceful life, despite of many fans knowing where they live and by what name they go now (actually Jordan didn’t even have to change his name). I’m sure it wouldn’t be too difficult to find them if someone wanted to go after them. But in all these years noone went after them and the biggest threat to Jordan’s life was his own father….

    we know he never turned on his friend Michael because he continued to proclaim his innocence throughout the years since the settlement.

    I’m afraid that Jordan isn’t this innocent in all this. He might have proclaimed MJ’s innocence to friends as an adult, but he claimed he molested him while interviewed by authorities and a psychologist back in 1993. It also has to be noted that he joined this ridiculous and money-hungry lawsuit of his father as soon as he turned 18: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/05/15/the-60-mln-case-as-a-final-verdict-for-evan-chandler/

    So even if he knows MJ was innocent he still seems to have a big, big love for money. And I think this is also why he emancipated himself (so he could get his money) and not necessarily that he felt remorse about what they did to MJ.

    But what do we expect? His father was nuts and his mother is someone who was described by Joy Robson as a “gold-digger”. Growing up in such a family why someone would turn out to be better?

    Like

  52. Irma permalink
    February 9, 2011 6:20 pm

    @AnaDomino
    “You know what else I find interesting about Jordan is where he chose to live after 1993. What I gather from the internet is that he had homes in New York, New Jersey, Santa Barbara and I think one other place. What is interesting to me? I have never visited America but I watch my fair share of American TV. The cities that are considered to be the big, glamorous American cities are New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Miami, Chicago, New Orleans, even Philadelphia. Santa Barbara and New Jersey would not be a foreigners first choice destination in the USA. So why did Jordan Chandler spend all his millions living in cities that were definately MJ territory. Neverland is nearer Santa Barbara than LA, and MJ often went to see the Cascios in NJ. I will bet my next paycheque that the Chandler kid chose places where he could be close to MJ – maybe try and contact him. I don’t think it is impossible to engineer a confession”

    Wow!! Good point Anna! What a lame lame lame creatue JC is. But we should not be surprised that’s how Psychopath’a mind works.

    Like

  53. Carm permalink
    February 9, 2011 6:16 pm

    In my opinion Jordie Chandler will never come out publicly and tell the world directly that he was never molested. It is too risky. There truly are some crazy, lunatic fans out there, not just sensible intelligent ones such as ourselves. Jordie’s safety, possibly even his life, would be in danger. He would also be forever hounded by the media. He has chosen instead to let his friends know that nothing ever happened. As Annie just mentioned, these friends were ready to testify as witnesses during the 2005 trial in the event that Jordie Chandler agreed to be a witness for the prosecution. Their testimonies were not needed because Jordie Chandler refused to participate and testify.

    Jordie Chandler is caught between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand he is benefitting from the settlement as he has a legal right to do so; on the other hand we can assume that he is conflicted–we know he never turned on his friend Michael because he continued to proclaim his innocence throughout the years since the settlement. He also got legal emancipation from his parents at the age of 16 for what they made him do, which is to lie and betray Michael. In any case, it really isn’t necessary for Jordie to come forward. All the factual information supporting Michael’s innocence is available. The debate is a false one. Saying that “no one will ever know for sure” is a myth. Too bad the U.S. (sorry guys) media is so dysfunctional that accurate information will forever be suppressed when it comes to Michael. (hmm, maybe it is necessary for Jordie to come forward)

    Helena’s blog is a godsend. Finally we get people with the intelligence and analytical skills and motivation to be able to scrutinize legal documents and all of the available information and make sense of it. Keep up the amazing work you are doing, Helena, David and the rest of you. Thank you!

    Like

  54. Natalia permalink
    February 9, 2011 6:11 pm

    Thank you so much Helena! It definitly was a set up.
    Thank you for explaining it to me!

    Like

  55. AnnieDomino permalink
    February 9, 2011 12:19 pm

    Apart from Jordan there were other people around who knew perfectly well what was going down and their word would carry almost as much weight. Example Ms. June. Who had such an amazing case of amnesia at the trial. I loved her line about “Jordan’s family” suing Michael. This from Jordan’s own mother. Freud would have a lot to say about that. Like she was somehow disassociating herself from the guilt. You know what else I find interesting about Jordan is where he chose to live after 1993. What I gather from the internet is that he had homes in New York, New Jersey, Santa Barbara and I think one other place. What is interesting to me? I have never visited America but I watch my fair share of American TV. The cities that are considered to be the big, glamorous American cities are New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Miami, Chicago, New Orleans, even Philadelphia. Santa Barbara and New Jersey would not be a foreigners first choice destination in the USA. So why did Jordan Chandler spend all his millions living in cities that were definately MJ territory. Neverland is nearer Santa Barbara than LA, and MJ often went to see the Cascios in NJ. I will bet my next paycheque that the Chandler kid chose places where he could be close to MJ – maybe try and contact him. I don’t think it is impossible to engineer a confession. Jordan confessed to several people – as per Tom Mes. If I were him and my millionaire’s lifestyle depended on keeping my mouth shut I would not tell a soul. Even my priest, spouse or best friend. If he told one person he can be persuaded to tell others.

    Like

  56. February 9, 2011 9:17 am

    “But I am bit confused about one thing. The sheets,MJ’s underwear,and the unknown male’s underwear were at the same bag? I didn’t understand.”

    Oooooh, Natalia, then you’ve missed the best part of it.

    1) Some sheets (which Prosecution preferred to keep silence about, so evidently there was virtually nothing in those sheets) + an unknown male’s semen-soiled underwear + Michael’s own underwear with no semen, but blood and some cocaine put on top of it = all this was indeed put into one laundry bag placed among books in some storage area in the second floor of the arcade building (which is not Michael’s residential area).

    2) The above precious staff was found by the police on November 18, 2003 when they were making a surprise raid at Neverland and other Michael’s apartments.

    3) By the time the raid was arranged Michael jackson and his children had been in Las Vegas for at least THREE WEEKS as Michael was working on a new album Number Ones and a new song “One more chance” plust a video to it.

    This means that instead of being washed the above pieces were deliberately stored by someone and stored in a place where the master of the house or his help were most unlikely to find them – while the police naturally would as they would be inspecting every cubic centimeter of the ranch.

    This is an exceptionally interesting fact because it looks like:

    – somebody in Neverland had been working for the police well before the search warrant was issued
    – they were accumulating dirty landry for quite a time – weeks, months, years?
    – considering all the effort that went into collecting all ‘the dirt’ can you imagine how little they managed to find?

    More about it here:
    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/dirty-linen-in-michaels-home-and-common-understanding-of-the-need-to-find-it-there/
    and here:
    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/dirty-laundry-and-cocaine-in-michaels-home-it-was-a-set-up/

    Like

  57. February 9, 2011 8:26 am

    “One of his friends told Socrates that he had something to say to him regarding one of his friends. Socrates interrupted him and asked him if he had “passed” that information through the 3 sieves. His friend was puzzled and Socrated explained him that the first one is truth. He then said “have you checked what you are about to tell me is the truth?” His friend answered “no, I only heard people talking about it”. Socrates answered “so you don’t know if it’s true. So now you have to pass it from the kindness sieve. Do you want to tell me something kind about that person?”. The friend said “no”. Then Socrates informed him about the 3d sieve which is usefulness and asked “what you want to say, is something useful for me?”. The friend again said “no”.
    And Socrates final answer was “So you want to say something to me that you don’t know if it’s true, it’s not something good and it’s not useful for me. Then why are you trying to tell me this in the first place? I will waste my time listening to you“.”

    * * *
    Olga, what a great real-life story! We should all learn from the wisdom of the great thinkers of the past. Socrates said it so many centuries ago and we up till now have not learned that lesson. This story needs to be printed on paper and put on the wall above the dinner table to be read at meals three times a day – like preventive medicine against the tabloid lies, waste and poison.

    Like

  58. shelly permalink
    February 9, 2011 3:25 am

    @zermarcy

    I think the real haters are very few. Most of people have doubts because, as they say, they weren’t there but they don’t hate him or hate us. They respect the presumption of innocence. I’ve never met a hater in real life. If he was so hated how do you explain the number of people who watched the memorial.

    Like

  59. February 9, 2011 2:46 am

    AnnieDomino :my applause to you and of course to others here, “They believed Jordan because MJ settled. MJ settled because he was given bad advice.The whole case of the haters is built on a high-stakes domino effect. So look at it from the other side…If Gavin was lying, Jordan was lying, etc… The Francia kid does not count. The jury laughed at him.” so true my friend,may I add
    that Michael lived at June’s house because she invited him,then he started to help them doing laundry and stuff like most regular people do,he did the same thing with the Casio family”taking garbage out and cleaning the house,stuff he liked to do,yet the horrible creatures such as Victor Gutierrez who said that Jackson washed Jordan’s clothes and cook for him as he was inlove with him and as the two somehow having a relationship like wife and husband relationship ,I dont know what kind of mind does this guy work but I dont see it that way and Helena agreed with me because Michael loved the whole family June,Jordan and Lily exactly like the Casio family.

    Michael loved doing family regular stuff like us everyday doing in our houses.
    As for the so called pastor Jason Francia case is full of crap”excuse my language” but it is, in 1993 and in 1994 he said Michael would ask him to read a book everyday and if he finished it he gave money,Francia also said that he liked being with Michael,never afraid of him.moreover,the 2005 trial he said Michael touched and gave him 100$ to not tell anyone,WOW touched him 3 times and only gave him 100$ ,I mean Michael is billionaire and just gave you 100 for one time!!!
    His testimony is full of holes ,exactly like 2 juries said even his attitude was like Janet Arvizo.
    Regarding the semen. It does not matter if semen was found on his sheets! Unless someone can show that it belonged to a specific person and was emmited during sexual intercourse it DOES NOT MATTER! There are millions of ways it could have got there. Example – in the trial testimony was heard that the Arviso kids were in MJ’s bedroom when he was away, also that Gavin masturbated in front of MJ’s cousin. So maybe Gavin masturbated in MJ’s bed when he was not there. There are millions of maybe’s…The reason it was not used by the prosecution in the trial is because it proves nothing.
    Its true that the semen proved Michael’s innocence because it doesn’t decriminalize him at all,if it did the prosecutor will be using it in court.
    As for Jordan will man up and tell everything??!!I doubt that, he wont show his face to the world as the kid who falsely accused the King of Pop of molesting him,he is as coward as his dear father Evan was.
    Although I sure want mama Chandler (June) to speak up,she is really suspicious and for sure the strong sly one among this dysfunctional family .

    Like

  60. Natalia permalink
    February 9, 2011 1:11 am

    Wonderful Piece!

    But I am bit confused about one thing
    The sheets,MJ’s underwear,and the unknown male’s underwear were at the same bag?

    I didn’t understand.

    Like

  61. ares permalink
    February 9, 2011 12:36 am

    @zeromarcy
    well being a MJ fan is not easy some times, lol. I don’t think that you should take too personally those people’s feelings or comments. I don’t think they hate MJ’s fans, they just have a thing about MJ. The best thing to do is not to visit those kind of sites again, if they upset you that much. There will be always people who will have that kind of resentment regarding MJ. Even before the allegations there were.The allegations just made things worse. The only thing we can do, is try to present the facts and hope that one day the truth will became known to everyone.

    Like

  62. zeromarcy permalink
    February 9, 2011 12:05 am

    Maral: I went to that blog (u know what blog I’m talking bout) and I’m horrified to see how much hate against us.
    I respect only the not-fans who saying things like “I was not there so i can’t say” and do not hate us.
    So sad thay are really few-

    Like

  63. Maral permalink
    February 8, 2011 11:14 pm

    @zeromarcy i know what you meant. but the truth is Michael was among the few who really tried to lead a humble life as God once intended for all humans to do. if we had only two of his kind, or even if he was allowed to do what he was set out to do which was to bring peace love and joy, then our world would be a far better place. MJ did not only see the problem but also the solution. and i believe that’s what scares the haters.

    Like

  64. zeromarcy permalink
    February 8, 2011 10:40 pm

    @Maral: I know he is not just an artist…. but i really do not understand the haters.
    There are so many beautiful things that they could do instead of insulting us an michael, and so loosing their time.
    And at least they should respect us and putting their mind in what we are going trough during these 2 years.

    Like

  65. Maral permalink
    February 8, 2011 10:24 pm

    @zeromarcy Michael is not jus an artist. he’s (still after his death) a phenomenal artist and humanitarian. i guess some fools are intimidated by that.

    Like

  66. February 8, 2011 10:07 pm

    @zeromarcy what you described is what a healthy individual whould do

    Like

  67. Maral permalink
    February 8, 2011 10:06 pm

    And why are you making Michael Jackson out to be a victim?’

    because ALL the evidence paints him as such. he was a victim of greedy people!

    Like

  68. zeromarcy permalink
    February 8, 2011 10:04 pm

    why the haters LOVE to spend their time INSULTING us???
    ….they have nothing better to do.
    If i do not like an artist, I do not go around insulting his/her fans, but i stay at home thinking about my passions/love.
    They should do the same.

    Like

  69. February 8, 2011 9:40 pm

    David among the thousands of things Socrates said there is a story that applies not only to people who are ignorant but to media stupidity in general. I will try translate it:

    One of his friends told Socrates that he had something to say to him regarding one of his friends. Socrates interrupted him and asked him if he had “pass” that information through the 3 sieves. His friend was puzzled and Socrated explained him that the first one is truth. He then said “have you checked what you are about to tell me is the truth?” His friend answered “no, I only heard people talking about it”. Socrates answered “so you don’t know if it’s true. So now you have to pass it from the kindness sieve. Do you want to tell me something kind about that person?”. The friend said “no”. Then Socrates informed him about the 3d sieve which is usefulness and asked “what you want to say, is something useful for me?”. The friend again said “no”. And Socrates final answer was “So you want to say something to me that you don’t know if it’s true, it’s not something good and it’s not useful for me. Then why are you trying to tell me this in the first place? I will waste my time listening to you“.

    Like

  70. nan permalink
    February 8, 2011 8:07 pm

    Randy T and Roger F both think eventually Jordan will come forward…I wont hold my breath for it.. He could have kept the money even if he went to court. He knew it was a repeat of the same scam his dad played and Michael life was hanging in the balance….He didnt…..coward

    Once his friendship with Mj was totally destroyed with no way for him to ever repair that friendship, and Evan facing time for extortion, I just think Jordan decided to turn on Mj and save his dad……. That whole family felt entitled to the money anyway , since MJ had introduced them to the good life…The settlement to me was just Evans way of leveling the playing field with MJ in his sons eyes.

    Poor Michael went through so much to prove his innocence instead of just cutting Evan a check. He could have bought him off with a song and nobody would have been the wiser… He refused because he was an innocent man…
    . I just think his lawyers were thinking of their own professional reputations, just like Mesereau was cautioned about in 2005..if he lost the Michael Jackson it would be what he was remembered for…..
    Better to settle and grab the billable hours…
    I just have so much respect for Tom for stepping up to the plate and taking that case..

    Its too bad he didnt have him back in 93 , I think his life would have been much different..
    I am hoping someday Mr. Mesereau writes his own book regarding the trial and addresses the 93 accusations as well

    Like

  71. lcpledwards permalink
    February 8, 2011 7:54 pm

    @ Annie Domino
    Here is a quote from the great philosopher Socrates that accurately corroborates what you said about haters having to call us names when they cannot back up their claims with facts:

    “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

    Thanks Socrates! I couldn’t have said it better myself!
    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/show/48955

    Like

  72. February 8, 2011 7:13 pm

    “I thought this website would be a good source of info, but obviously I’m wrong. You people are crazy! Posting private emails – who does that?? This site has nothing to do with the values Mike espoused, I won’t be back.”

    Barry, please go to our rules and get familiar with rule No.4.

    Like

  73. Suzy permalink
    February 8, 2011 6:02 pm

    @ Annie

    I hope you will be right about the kid fessing up. And I hope we won’t have to wait until he’s on his death bed.

    Like

  74. AnnieDomino permalink
    February 8, 2011 5:47 pm

    Thanks Suzy. The point I am trying to make is that we live in a world where people don’t really form opinions based on facts anymore.They read their chosen newspaper or watch their chosen TV show and whatever they see there is what sticks. The simple reality is that only us – and ironically enough the haters – care enough about the details to form any kind of informed opinion. I consider myself to be relatively well-informed about MJ because I am a serious fan. My brother loves MJ’s music, gets mad when people diss MJ’s music, but that is where his passion ends. He is a fan of Michael’s music. His opinion on whether or not MJ is a pedo is the same as the general public’s. He says: “Michael should never have settled”. I love this blog. The level of detail reported and the passion to uncover the truth is truly inspiring. But in a way it is like a bunch of MJ Phd’s having a learned discussion. The average Joe needs simple, easy-to-understand information. Jordan on Oprah is pretty much the simplest way. I know that not every MJ-fan is partial to Roger Friedman. But I like him because he supported MJ during the trial. He also goes the extra mile when reporting on MJ. He is by far the most informed mainstream source on Michael. And Roger Friedman feels the “kid will ‘fess up”. I agree.

    Like

  75. Susanne permalink*
    February 8, 2011 2:57 pm

    Oh God, it hurts me very much reading about the discussion with these haters because it keeps us busy and wasting time. I just want to express my support to Helena and all the co-eds. I read your blog almost daily because all of you do a brilliant job with very thorough investigations in a very intelligent, sensible and proper way.
    The style and wording of the haters’ comments prove that they are neither very bright nor mature and that they are not really interested in facts and careful deliberation, not to speak of giving someone a chance or the benefit of a doubt. And that’s why they will never realize themselves that they go in a wrong direction. They put too much energy in hating and bashing, and that keeps them from seeing the truth. That’s what history tells us: If people hate and go to war, this keeps them from seeing the solution to the problem.
    I’m sorry, Helena et al, that you have to deal with this kind of response, but I also see that you are strong intelligent people whom I want to encourage to go on!
    I love you all!

    Like

  76. ares permalink
    February 8, 2011 1:30 pm

    Jordan Chandler will never confess anything. Proof of that was the trial. Forget it. People are either going to make up their mind based on the evidences or they are going to wonder and waver forever.I have make up my mind based on the evidence.

    Like

  77. Suzy permalink
    February 8, 2011 12:41 pm

    @ Annie

    I think that if we really want to clear MJ’s name there is only really one way. Rational argument will not convince all the haters. Jordan Chandler has to confess that he lied. He has to do it on TV in front of the world. That is the only way. The fan community needs to start thinking of ways to make that happen.

    I agree with that. Though the likes of D. would still cling on their lies even then. After all she claims Michael molested Brett Barnes, Wade Robson, Omer Bhatti, Frank Cascio – despite of all of these guys saying nothing ever happened. So haters live in a fantasy world that they made up for themselves and where facts don’t matter, just opinions and insinuations.

    However with a Jordan confession this group would certainly become marginalized (and unfortunately probably only then), so I’m really longing for the day that this would happen. However I’m not holding my breath. Remember, Jordan joined his father’s $60 million lawsuit against Michael, Lisa Marie Presley, ABC etc. (this one: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/05/15/the-60-mln-case-as-a-final-verdict-for-evan-chandler/ ) as soon as he turned 18. To me that suggests he maybe tells people around him that Michael was innocent, but he loves money more than he loves integrity.

    I’d also imagine there’s a tremendous amount of pressure on him to NOT to come forward. From his family (Uncle Ray and his mother), from authorities who were involved (Sneddon’s branch) etc.

    Like

  78. AnnieDomino permalink
    February 8, 2011 12:10 pm

    The thing with haters is that they resort to name-calling, which is the only thing you can do if you have no real facts to support your argument. Tom Mes said that while selecting MJ’s jury he was looking for intelligent, free-thinking people. That is what MJ’s fans are – you have to be to see through all the lies and garbage. For anyone to say that someone is guilty of something just because they were accused of it shows a lack of historical perspective and worldliness.If you are an intelligent, educated, sophisticated person who has lived in the world for a couple of decades you know that the world is not that simple. Thousands of people in our world have been accused of criminal behaviour – sometimes by multiple sources – and have been untimately vindicated. The McMartin case is the most obvious example. Take all the people who in 1993 told the tabs – for a price – that MJ was a pedo. In 2005 when they had to tell their tale under oath and face Mes’ cross examination they all crumbled. Jordan Chandler would have been crucified under cross. He told friends that he lied in 1993 and Mes knew it. All the objective lawyers and journalists who covered the trial concluded that the Arviso’s story was BS. Let’s get real -the average person (not fans, not haters) believed Gavin because they believed Jordan. They believed Jordan because MJ settled. MJ settled because he was given bad advice.The whole case of the haters is built on a high-stakes domino effect. So look at it from the other side…If Gavin was lying, Jordan was lying, etc… The Francia kid does not count. The jury laughed at him.
    Regarding the semen. It does not matter if semen was found on his sheets! Unless someone can show that it belonged to a specific person and was emmited during sexual intercourse it DOES NOT MATTER! There are millions of ways it could have got there. Example – in the trial testimony was heard that the Arviso kids were in MJ’s bedroom when he was away, also that Gavin masturbated in front of MJ’s cousin. So maybe Gavin masturbated in MJ’s bed when he was not there. There are millions of maybe’s…The reason it was not used by the prosecution in the trial is because it proves nothing.
    I think that if we really want to clear MJ’s name there is only really one way. Rational argument will not convince all the haters. Jordan Chandler has to confess that he lied. He has to do it on TV in front of the world. That is the only way. The fan community needs to start thinking of ways to make that happen.

    Like

  79. Suzy permalink
    February 8, 2011 10:30 am

    @ Shelly

    If he is someone with genuine interest the question should have gone something like this “Why do you think he is a victim?” But he already suggests in his question we just “make him out to be a victim”. OK, that could be bad wording on his part. However after only a couple of posts he says we are “crazy”.

    His only real concern seems to be about D’s e-mail being published, while he doesn’t seem to be concerned about D’s bully behaviour and language. If I go to a website where I’m new and there is a conflict, I won’t start posting there concerning about that conflict without knowing all the facts and history behind it. Unless I’m an interested party in it in some way….

    I could be mistaken about his motives, of course, but there is something about these people who pop up usually when there is a conflict, only to tell how “crazy” we are and how they thought it was a good site but now (after spending here about 5 minutes) they can see how it’s not, bla-bla-bla. That is BS. Noone with genuine interest and a truly open mind behaves like that.

    And BTW, first suggesting that we just “make MJ out to be a victim”, then showing concern about D’s e-mail being published but not a single concern about the content and language of that e-mail, then citing MJ’s values, calling him “Mike”, pretending to be a fan – sorry, but this is so fake that it makes me wanna puke. As dishonesty always does.

    Like

  80. shelly permalink
    February 8, 2011 9:59 am

    “Don’t pretend you are someone who is interested in the values Michael represented. You are very clearly one of the haters as your question “And why are you making Michael Jackson out to be a victim?” shows.”

    How do we know he is a hater. I know the question is strange.

    Like

  81. February 8, 2011 9:31 am

    “Too many people listen to gossip. I listen to music . Writers and singers write and sing whats in their heart. Michaels heart was nothing but love and compassion for children and the world. I’m impressed that for all the crap he got from the world, he was still able to love everybody right up to his death.”

    ABSOLUTELY! Linda, my biggest hugs to you!

    Like

  82. Suzy permalink
    February 8, 2011 7:00 am

    @ Barry

    Don’t pretend you are someone who is interested in the values Michael represented. You are very clearly one of the haters as your question “And why are you making Michael Jackson out to be a victim?” shows.

    FYI, Michael Jackson was THE victim! He is the victim of money hungry extortionists and irrational hatred. It cost his life, while his false accusers happily live off his money (Chandler and Francia). You haters can be happy about that. Though it seems it’s still not enough for you. You are the type of people who would be first in line in a lynch mob throwing stones at someone, who would find “witch” burning great fun, or who would shout “crucify him” about 2000 years ago….

    It’s interesting how all these haters need to make up lies, rely on tabloid gossip, even falsify evidence and interviews and pretend to be someone else than who they are (haters pretending to be “fans” or “D” coming here under other nick names like she used to do in the past). If the truth is on their side why do they need all this lying and decieving tactics?

    Like

  83. Linda permalink
    February 8, 2011 6:31 am

    “Why are you posting private emails?”
    “YOU people are really pathetic. ” Sorry, that’s a reference to all YOU people. That’s not a personal e-mail, that’s an attack to all YOU PEOPLE. There’s no reason to attack anyone. We all have an opinion, but you don’t have to be rude and condescending to get it across. This website has a lot of good info and hater “D” wants her opinions here just to stir up strife. She’s happy, so be happy for her.

    Like

  84. Linda permalink
    February 8, 2011 6:04 am

    But I can show reasonable suspicion and circumstantial evidence, and I am sure if I had handled the 2005 case, Michael Jackson would be in prison as we speak?????
    This idiot, sorry, thinks they are better and smarter than sneddon? He was the baddest of the bad. Bad grammer, but if anybody could have gotten a conviction against Michael, it would have been him, especially with all the dishonest and illegal tactics he used.
    Apparently this hater “D” is just itching for a fight and you have too much good stuff here to waste space with someone attacking and putting down peoples intelligence. When you have to call people rude names and and portray then as stupid shows nothing but her own insecurity.
    There was no frickin evidence against Michael, period. I mention his name and people recoil. He was a molester. I ask them why? All they can say is what the haters, the tabloids reported. They don’t understand. Too many people listen to gossip. I listen to music . Writers and singers write and sing whats in their heart. Michaels heart was nothing but love and compassion for children and the world. I’m impressed that for all the crap he got from the world, he was still able to love everybody right up to his death.
    Love your website. I visit here every day and thank you for what you’re doing.

    Like

  85. Barry Eccleston permalink
    February 8, 2011 5:26 am

    @vindicatemj

    I thought this website would be a good source of info, but obviously I’m wrong. You people are crazy! Posting private emails – who does that?? This site has nothing to do with the values Mike espoused, I won’t be back.

    VMJ: Please see rule #4.

    Like

  86. Denise permalink
    February 8, 2011 4:26 am

    @Barry,
    Why are you not getting what these hard-working researchers are saying? This was a response to the past ridiculous dialogue about where, and how semen played a part in the trial. And it turns out, apparently it must have not really mattered to the prosecution to exclude it as evidence.

    Michael wasn’t a victim per sey, but he was something close to it. He had to give up the golden years for performing, along with his brothers. It probably did affected his other siblings as well, maybe not to the extent it affected Michael, but Michael was more vocal about it than the rest. And when people bring this subject up, it’s not like we’re trying to find an excuse for whatever he was accused of. His childhood didn’t stop lying and conniving people to step in and throw his life off course. When I think Michael was very guilty of one thing, being far too trusting, THAT’S IT! He meant well. I really do not believe it was for sexual advances toward children. As a matter of fact, Michael only got that bad reputation like he did because that Jerk, Bashir, kept pumping it into the viewers mind about how inappropriate, and quote “Dangerous”, Neverland is for unsuspecting children. *Rolling my damned eyes*. And Bashir created his minions to follow that Jacked up perspective.

    I don’t know, I really do think he was a victim in a lot of ways. Just by being “ACCUSED” of victimization. It’s like we keep beating a dead horse, and convicting Michael of pedophilia, when all the untouched facts are here for everyone’s eyes to meet.

    People keep coming to this site, trying to throw it off it’s course (Which I’m glad isn’t succeeding) With this rotten tabloid material, and the so-called “Incriminating Evidence” but everyone knows that truth prevails over lies.

    And we’re blessed to have sites such as this one. Because decency and respect, today, is a rarity especially concerning the words ‘Michael” and “Jackson”.
    Which is a shame because he was human being, and we just ripped a fellow human being apart with all the verbal attacks. (Yes I consider bias and propaganda verbal abuse, because Michael denied everything they were accusing him of, but still called him a liar, Smh).

    Sorry for my rambling, but this lurker, just had to vent.

    Like

  87. Lezlie permalink
    February 8, 2011 3:49 am

    “Why are you posting private emails?”

    Because she can. That’s why.

    Like

  88. February 8, 2011 3:36 am

    “And why are you making Michael Jackson out to be a victim?”

    And who was he – a prosecutor, hunter or harasser?

    Like

  89. February 8, 2011 3:34 am

    “Why are you posting private emails?”

    Barry, if you are asking me – because I warn every hater who comes my way that anything they say to me in private may be made public any time. By the way all my “private” mail is read by ALL our co-admins, so that they know and read all the correspondence that I am making.

    Each hater who comes to this blog should know of this rule and should please check his tongue not to be ashamed of his own words later. In my humble opinion a person’s veiws and language should not change whether it is “official” or “non-official” talk. A gentleman is always a gentleman, independent of whether he is on or off stage.

    However I always warn people of a possibility of disclosing our correspondence and since we have a long history of a relationship with Desiree she knows this rule as ages ago she was told about it.

    Like

  90. Barry Eccleston permalink
    February 8, 2011 3:16 am

    And why are you making Michael Jackson out to be a victim?

    VMJ:Because all the evidence through the years showed that he was the victim of greedy con artists

    Like

  91. Barry Eccleston permalink
    February 8, 2011 3:15 am

    Why are you posting private emails?

    Like

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