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HIStory vs EVANstory: The 1993 allegations Part 1

April 20, 2011

Who lured who?

In May 1992, Michael Jackson was driving in Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills, when his jeep broke down. He was spotted by Mel Green’s wife – Green was an employer at Rent-A-Wreck. She called her husband, who rushed to the scene in order to meet the world’s most famous celebrity and bring him to his employer’s shop. When Mel Green verified that it was really Michael Jackson, he called David Schwartz, the owner of Rent-A-Wreck, who immediately called his wife June Chandler (she never took Schwartz’s last name, she was always June Chandler) and told her to bring her son Jordan Chandler because he had a big surprise for him. Jordan was a big MJ fan who used to dress like him, a very common behavior for young (and in many occasions older) die hard fans of Jackson (and other popular artists for that matter). His mother verified that, in her April 11, 2005 trial testimony (direct by Sneddon):

18 Q. Now, let me go back in time. Before this

19 meeting that you had at your husband’s place of

20 business in 1992, had Jordan ever expressed, to your

 21 knowledge, some admiration for Mr. Jackson?

 22 A. Oh, very much so, yes.

23 Q. How did he display that admiration?

24 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.

25 MR. SNEDDON: I didn’t ask for a statement,

26 Your Honor. I asked for a display.

27 THE COURT: All right.

28 He’s not asking for anything that was said. 5603

1 Do you understand the question?

2 THE WITNESS: Would you repeat the question,

3 please?

4 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Yes.

5 How did your son Jordan, prior to this

 6 meeting that occurred at David Schwartz’s place of

 7 business, express — display his admiration for Mr.

 8 Jackson?

9 A. He had a little sparkly jacket that he would

 10 wear to parties. He would have a glove like Michael

 11 Jackson, and dance around like Michael Jackson.

 12 Q. And this was all before he met Mr. Jackson?

 13 A. Before he met Michael Jackson, yes.

June and Jordie arrived at the shop to meet Michael. June, who was a former model, was described by everyone that knew her as a very attractive Eurasian woman, and her marriage with her 70 year old husband was not going well at the time (they eventually divorced) and Mr. Schwartz had already moved out. According to the people who were present at the scene, Jackson was quickly taken by her as she introduced herself to him.

Wade Robson’s mother testified at the 2005 trial that June was after Michael. She said “My impression of her is she was a gold-digger“. She also stated she felt June Chandler tried to use Michael and that she would order the staff around like she owned it. Even Evan Chandler had noticed that, as it is revealed from his taped conversation with Jordan’s stepfather, David Schwartz. This conversation is listed in the full transcript that is included as exhibit no 10 in the case no SC 031 774 (Schwartz vs. Chandler-David Schwartz sued Evan Chandler because in late 1993 during a meeting in Larry Feldman’s office David yelled at Evan Chandler that “this is all about extortion”, and Evan lost it and hit David). Also it is revealed from June’s testimony that she had a conversation with Michael about trust issues, telling him that men in her life had let her down and she had a hard time trusting someone. That’s not exactly a friendly conversation.

June introduced Jordan to Michael and she informed him that they had seen him before, while eating at an L.A. restaurant but they didn’t approach him. She also informed him that when he was hospitalized for his Pepsi burn accident in 1984, Jordan, who was 4 at the time, sent a letter and a picture of himself to the Brotman Memorial Hospital. The letter included their telephone number. In reality, it was June who wrote the letter and gave it to MJ’s bodyguards in the hospital including the picture and her telephone number. She was trying to meet Michael for a long time before May 1992. Thousands of fans all over the world had bombarded the hospital with letters and phone calls and extra staff was hired from the hospital to handle the fans’ reaction. Former US president Ronald Reagan was among the people who sent MJ a letter to wish him well. The Pepsi commercial accident made big headlines worldwide in newspapers, magazines, shows and TV news at the time. Michael Jackson called the Chandlers back to thank Jordan for his letter, as he used to do throughout his life on numerous occasions, given the well- known and amazing attachment he always had with his fans. He also suggested that Jordan should participate in an audition for one of his commercials at the time. Jordan did participate but he wasn’t selected and he didn’t meet Jackson. In 1989, Frank Dileo contacted June to offer her tickets for the BAD concert in Los Angeles. MJ has offered tickets to his fans of all ages, races, social status and sex, hundreds of times in his career, a fact well documented over the years going back to his Jackson 5 days. June and Jordan attended the concert and tried to meet MJ backstage, but with no success.

After June explained to MJ how huge a fan Jordan was, she wrote down her telephone number and handed it to him, suggesting that he should call Jordan sometime. David Schwartz seconded that, adding that Jordan was his biggest fan. That was the second time June was offering Jackson her phone number. June verified the Rent-A-Wreck incident in her 2005 trial testimony. From her direct examination by Sneddon:

“5 Q. And do you recall how long you were with Mr.

6 Jackson and Jordan that day?

7 A. Briefly. Five minutes. Ten minutes.

8 Q. And did — was there any information

9 exchanged between you and Mr. Jackson that day?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And what was that?

12 A. I said, “If you would like to see Jordie or

 13 if he could call you or if you’d like to speak to

 14 him, here is our number, and you can give him a

 15 call.”

16 Q. And you gave that to Mr. Jackson?

 17 A. Yes, I did.

 

Jordan described the pressure on Jackson to take the phone number and call him in his interview with Dr. Gardner on October 6, 1993:

-My stepfather took him [Michael] outside to choose a car for him to use. And I guess when my stepfather was outside he said, ‘You don’t have to pay for the car if you just take Jordie’s number and give him a call’.
– Why would your stepfather say that?
– Because my stepfather knows I was interested in Michael Jackson and his music.
– And this was in your presence?
– No. I was told this by my stepfather.

Mel Green, who was also present, had the following to say in his interview with Mary Fischer for her 1994 GQ article on the case: It was almost like she (June) was forcing [the boy] on him,”  “I think Michael thought he owed the boy something, and that’s when it all started.”

According to every available given fact coming from the parties involved, including the Chandlers themselves, it is unquestionable that they  forced themselves on Michael Jackson, not vice versa, as the media still likes to falsely present it. They offered their phone number twice without Jackson asking for it, they pressured him to call because Jordan was his biggest fan, David called June to bring Jordan, they brought him to David’s shop, and they tried to meet him before May 1992.

MJ-Chandlers friendship

Jackson befriended the Chandlers-like he did with many other families that approached him over the years- inviting June, Jordan and Lily to Neverland in February 1993. June invited him many times to her house as well.  During the same period of time, MJ had a friendly relationship with others including the Culkins, Cascios, Robsons and Barnes.  June lived with her son Jordie, her daughter Lily, and a live-in housekeeper. Mr. Schwartz had already moved out by then. Sometimes they were joined by Evan Chandler when Michael was there.  In her trial testimony, June said that MJ never stayed there 30 days in a row after the trip to Monaco, as the media falsely reported. June testified that could be a week or two only. From her testimony:

Q. After you got back from Monaco, did Michael Jackson spend nights at your home?

A. Yes.

Q. Were the 30 nights you’ve described after you got back from Monaco?

A. No.

Q. How many nights after you got back from Monaco do you think Michael Jackson stayed at your home?

A. Oh, perhaps a week or two.

Q. And this was a point where you were getting upset that your son wanted to spend all of his time with Michael Jackson, right?

A. Yes.”

Given the timeline we know from the Chandlers, and the business schedule of MJ, those 30 days are somebody’s fabrication. June’s 2005 trial testimony and MJ’s overloaded schedule refute it even for the period prior to Monaco. It couldn’t have been in Mr. Chandler’s house either because June Chandler said Michael stayed at Evan’s on one or two occasions for 4-7 days. Jordan Chandler gave an even more confusing and contradictory timeline to Dr. Gardner. It seems that no one was able to keep his story straight. Jordan’s confused memory was also noted in the DCFS report.

She also said that it was her son and not Jackson who requested her permission to sleep in MJ’s bedroom during their 3d visit at Neverland.

Evan Chandler felt uncomfortable about the fact that Michael Jackson had begun to take his place in Jordan’s life. He discussed it with June and David. Michael Freeman, June Chandler’s lawyer, said that Mr. Chandler felt that he was left out. David Schwartz also felt that he had lost his wife because of MJ (although there were marital problems before that) and he didn’t like the fact that Michael was buying presents for June. In fact Michael Jackson had a very old habit of buying jewellery for women he liked, dating back to his elementary school years, when he used to steal his mother’s jewellery to give them to teachers he liked. He talks about it in his autobiography, and so does his mother in her book. He kept that habit throughout his life, which is a very well-known fact about him. Evan reportedly didn’t have much of a great relationship with Jordan, as he was $68,804 behind in child support.

The National Enquirer tabloid wrote an article after Michael’s trip to Monaco under the title “Michael’s new adopted family” and everybody was wondering who that beautiful woman was next to Michael. The media played constantly the footage of Michael, June, Lily, and Jordan and presented it as if Michael and June were having an affair. Evan Chandler and David Schwartz were not amused and they discussed this issue.

Evan finally met Michael and according to his side of the story he had already been suspicious about Michael and Jordie’s relationship, although he never provided any explanation for this. When the allegations were made public, J. Randy Taraborelli said that Jackson’s staff were investigating Evan Chandler since May 1993, and they refused to give in to Chandler’s request because the allegations were false. The interesting thing here is that May 1993 is the time where Michael Jackson was seen in public with the Chandlers and the media picked it up.

Having said that, one can only wonder why Evan invited Michael to stay in his house (he had expressed his suspicions before the invitation by asking his patient Carrie Fischer, who knew Dr. Arnold Klein, for information on MJ. Dr. Klein answered that Michael was a nice guy acting like a big child, and that he was perfectly straight), why he asked him to build them a new wing so he can spend more time there, and if MJ could possibly buy them a bigger house.

How did Mr. Chandler come up with that suspicion in the first place? June Chandler never suspected Michael of anything and she was very clear about it both in 1993 and 2005. Jordan Chandler never said anything like that to his father at the time and he even denied the allegations when he was questioned in July 1993. David Schwartz didn’t agree with Evan either and even accused him of extortion. So where did that accusation come from? For the record, at no time did Evan Chandler ever claim to have witnessed any sexual misconduct on Jackson’s part. Did someone approach, manipulate and use Mr. Chandler by planting the seeds of molestation in Mr. Chandler’s head, after seeing the family in the news in May 1993? Was someone around Evan Chandler before he even had any thoughts and ideas of misconduct?


The Plan

On July 7, 1993, Evan Chandler filed papers for modification of the custody agreement. For everything that was about to follow, Mr. Chandler first needed to have the custody of Jordan. During a July 8, 1993 taped conversation with David Schwartz, Evan said that he was angry because MJ stopped telephoning him and he stopped being his friend. He also said that he recently informed Michael about what he wanted from their relationship. When referring to the same event, Michael Jackson said that Chandler asked him to fund movie projects for 20 million dollars making him a partner to his Sony deal. This is corroborated by painter David Nordahl in his interview with Deborah L. Kunesh (2010):

“I was working on sketches for his film production company, called “Lost Boys Productions”….Sony had given him (Michael) $40 million to start this production company and that little boy’s dad (Evan Chandler), who considered himself to be show business material, because he had written part of a script….after that he considered himself a Hollywood screenwriter, and being friends with Michael and his son being friends with Michael, this guy had assumed that Michael was going to make him a partner in this film production company and that’s where the $20 million figure came from. He wanted ½ of that Sony money. It was proven. It was an extortion. Michael listened to his business advisors and they all told him to keep his mouth shut and to go on to Korea, go on with your tour, you’re in the middle of a tour. We’ll take care of it….”

http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/interviewwithdavidnordahl.html

It was also mentioned in Los Angeles Times dated August 28, 1993:

“Film industry sources have said that the boy’s father sought a $20-million movie production and financing deal with Jackson. Although the boy’s father has not commented publicly about that charge or any other aspect of the case, he has told friends that the extortion allegation is untrue.”

Evan’s request for partnership in movies was not a secret in film industry circles. According to his brother, Ray Chandler, he discussed it with his wife Natalie. In this conversation Evan Chandler says that Jordan asked for Michael to give him a job in his movie productions. Chandler had faced serious professional problems, and there was a period where his license was suspended. He had also been sued by one of his clients. He wanted to become a movie writer and quit his job, and in 1992 he co-wrote the script for Mel Brook’s Robin Hood: Men in Tights. From Los Angeles Times article dated June 13, 1993:

You’ve all heard of script doctors. Well, here’s a new one: script dentists.

 Beverly Hills dentist Dr. Evan Chandler–the man who’s entrusted to care for Sherry Lansing’s, Christian Slater’s and Valerie Golino’s teeth, among others–found a new patient in his chair one morning interested in listening to a couple of his movie ideas. The patient was screenwriter J. David Shapiro; the idea actually came from Chandler’s then 11-year-old son, Jordie. The conversation took place post-“Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves” and resulted in a writing partnership that has become “Robin Hood: Men in Tights.”

“Evan Chandler’s son turned to his father and said, ‘You know, Dad, you know what would be a great thing, a spoof of Robin Hood,‘ ” recalls the King of Parodies, Mel Brooks, who liked the duo’s screenplay send-up of the 1991 hit that starred Costner as the chivalric arrow-slinging hero who stole from the rich to give to the poor and decided to make it his next movie. “It didn’t hurt that the man’s in a lot of show-biz mouths,” he said, acknowledging his connection to Shapiro through a mutual friend who works for Brooksfilm.

Brooks also gives a nod to the kid despite the fact he’s in a Writers Guild arbitration with his father and Shapiro over who should get what screenplay credit. Brooks says they should get story credit and he and Shapiro screenplay credit. Chandler would not comment for this story. (Consideration is being made whether to give Jordi some recognition in the end crawl credits.)

“Even though the kid was 12 or 14 years late, it was still a good idea,” said the spoof-meister of such genre lampoons as “Blazing Saddles” and “Young Frankenstein.”

Evan and Jordan Chandler were capable of writing a Hollywood script. That is a fictional story, which could become a movie. The idea was Jordan’s, and he participated in the writing of the script. Anyone who has seen “Robin Hood: Men in Tights” knows that it is filled with sexual jokes and innuendoes. June Chandler had an argument with Evan Chandler because he didn’t give his son part of the money for the script. She said he owed him $ 5,000 dollars.

At the time, June, David and Michael were a team against Evan Chandler. June and David tried to warn Michael about Evan but unfortunately he didn’t take them seriously, saying that these kind of things happen to him all the time, and people were always trying to get money out of him, which is a very common problem for celebrities.

Evan Chandler also said the following on the tape (excerpts from the transcripts dated early July 1993):

20 MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you

21 this way: I have a set routine of words that I’m

22 going to go in there that have been rehearsed and

23 I’m going to say.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

25 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? Because I don’t

9

1 want to say anything that could be used against me.

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

3 MR. CHANDLER: So I know exactly what I

4 can say. That’s why I’m bringing the tape

5 recorder.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

7 MR. CHANDLER: I have some things on

8 paper to show a few people

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

10 MR. CHANDLER: — and that’s it. My

11 whole part is going to take two or three minutes,

12 and I’m going to turn around [tape irregularity],

13 and that’s it. There’s not going to be anything

14 said, other than what I’ve been told to say

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: — and I’m going to turn

17 around and leave, and they’re going to have a

18 decision to make.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: And based on that

21 decision, I’ll decide whether or not we’re going to

22 talk again or whether it’s going to go further.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

24 MR. CHANDLER: I have to make a phone

25 call. As soon as I leave the house, I get on the

10

1 telephone.

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

3 MR. CHANDLER: I make a phone call.

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

5 MR. CHANDLER: Say “Go” or I say,

6 “Don’t go yet,” and that’s –

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

8 MR. CHANDLER: — the way it’s gonna to

9 be.

10 I’ve been told what to do, and I have

11 to do it.

12 I’m not — I happen to know what’s

13 going to be going on, see? They don’t have to say

14 anything to me. [Tape irregularity] “you have

15 refused to listen to me. Now you’re going to have

16 to listen to me. This is my position. Give it a

17 thought.”

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

19 MR. CHANDLER: “Think it over.”

20 I’m not saying anything bad about

21 anybody, okay? I’ve got it all on paper.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: I’m going to hand out

24 the paper so that I don’t inadvertently [tape

25 irregularity], handing out the paper, “Michael,

11

1 here’s your paper. June, here’s your paper.”

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

3 MR. CHANDLER: “Compare papers. Read

4 this whole thing. This is my feelings about it.

5 Do you want to talk further? We’ll talk again.”

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

7 MR. CHANDLER: “If you don’t” [tape

8 irregularity] — but, see, all I’m trying to do

9 now, they have forced me to go [tape irregularity]

10 on paper and give it to them to read –

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: — because [tape

13 irregularity]. I mean, isn’t that pitiful?

14 Now, why would they want to cut me out,

15 to go this far, spend this much money, spend so

16 much time in my life crying, being away from my

17 practice, not paying [tape irregularity] everybody

18 else? Why would they want to put me through that?

*******************************************

13 MR. CHANDLER: Well, I have to count

14 the days because I can’t let it go on forever.

15 By the way, they’re going on tour on

16 August 15th. They’re going to be gone. They’re

17 going to be out of the country

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

19 MR. CHANDLER: — for four months.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Is that bad?

21 MR. CHANDLER: Well, I’m not going to

22 be able to communicate with them about this when

23 they’re gone, am I?

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, but you think

25 that –

18

1 MR. CHANDLER: By the way, they’re not

2 going.

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

4 MR. CHANDLER: They don’t know that

5 yet, but they are not going.

17 MR. CHANDLER: — to give it one more

18 try, and that’s the only reason, because this

19 attorney I found — I mean, I interviewed several,

20 and I picked the nastiest son of a bitch –

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: — I could find, and all

23 he wants to do is get this out in the public as

24 fast as he can, as big as he can –

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

25

1 MR. CHANDLER: — and humiliate as many

2 people as he can, and he’s got a bad [tape

3 irregularity] –

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that’s

5 good?

6 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,

7 inaudible) he’s costing me a lot of money.

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that’s

9 good?

10 MR. CHANDLER: I think that’s great. I

11 think it’s terrific. The best. Because when

12 somebody — when somebody tells you that they don’t

13 want to talk to you –

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

9 MR. CHANDLER: It’s true. I mean, it

10 could be a massacre if I don’t get what I want.

11 But I do believe this person will get what he

12 wants.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

14 MR. CHANDLER: So he would just really

15 love [tape irregularity] nothing better than to

16 have this go forward. He is nasty, he is mean

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: — he is very smart

19 [tape irregularity], and he’s hungry for the

20 publicity [tape irregularity] better for him.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: And that’s where it’ll

23 go –

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: You don’t think everyone

25 loses?

27

1 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

2 inaudible) totally humiliate him in every way –

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: That — everyone doesn’t

4 lose in that?

5 MR. CHANDLER: That’s not the issue.

6 See, the issue is that if I have to go that far –

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

8 MR. CHANDLER: — I can’t stop and

9 think “Who wins and who loses?”

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: All I can think about is

12 I only have one goal, and the goal is to get their

13 attention –

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: — so that [tape

16 irregularity] concerns are, and as long as they

17 don’t want to talk to me, I can’t tell them what my

18 concerns are, so I have to go step by step, each

19 time escalating the attention-getting mechanism,

20 and that’s all I regard him as, as an

21 attention-getting mechanism.

22 Unfortunately, after that, it’s totally

23 out of [tape irregularity]. It’ll take on so much

24 momentum of its own that it’s going to be out of

25 all our control. It’s going to be monumentally

28

1 huge, and I’m not going to have any way to stop it.

2 No one else is either at that point. I mean, once

3 I make that phone call, this guy’s just going to

4 destroy everybody in site in any devious, nasty,

5 cruel way that he can do it. And I’ve given him

6 full authority to do that.

7 To go beyond tomorrow, that would mean

8 I have done every possible thing in my individual

9 power to tell them to sit down and talk to me; and

10 if they still [tape irregularity], I got to

11 escalate the attention-getting mechanism. He’s the

12 next one. I can’t go to somebody nice [tape

13 irregularity]. It doesn’t work with them. I

14 already found that out. Get some niceness and just

15 go fuck yourself.

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

17 MR. CHANDLER: Basically, what they

18 have to know, ultimately, is that their lives are

19 over, if they don’t sit down. One way or the

20 other, it’ll either go to the next step or the

21 [tape irregularity]. I’m not stopping until I get

22 their attention.

24 MR. CHANDLER: The other times I tried

25 to tell them that I needed to talk to them, all I

131

1 got was, “Go fuck yourself. We’re not talking to

2 you.”

3 So now I had to let them know and make

4 sure that they know they’d [tape irregularity]

5 they’re gonna get hurt by it, so (inaudible) — I

6 had to make [tape irregularity] if they don’t sit

7 down and talk to me they’re gonna get hurt. They

8 can’t keep telling me to go fuck myself anymore.

9 They have to talk. I want to talk to them. I

10 don’t want to hurt anybody. They’re forcing me to

11 do it. They’re forcing me to do it by refusing to

12 sit down and talk to me. That’s all I ask for.

13 “You sit down and you talk to me [tape

14 irregularity] side of the story, I’ll listen to

15 yours, we all sit down and see how it could be

16 resolved.”

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. So that’s

18 there –

19 MR. CHANDLER: That’s all I ask for.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: But when you say

22 “winning,” what are you talking about, “winning”?

23 MR. CHANDLER: I will get everything I

24 want, and they will be totally — they will be

25 destroyed forever. They will be destroyed. June

133

1 is gonna lose Jordy. She will have no right to

2 ever see him again.

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Does that help –

7 MR. CHANDLER: — Michael the career

8 will be over.

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Does that help Jordy?

10 MR. CHANDLER: Michael’s career will be

11 over.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: And does that help

13 Jordy?

14 MR. CHANDLER: It’s irrelevant to me.

5 MR. CHANDLER: That’s silly. No.

6 Michael has to be there. Michael has to be there.

7 He’s the main one. He’s the one I want.

25 MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you

128

1 this way, Dave. Nobody in this world was allowed

2 to come between this family of June, me and Jordy.

18  If

19 I go through with this, I win big time. There’s no

20 way that I lose. I’ve checked that out inside out.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: But when you say

22 “winning,” what are you talking about, “winning”?

23 MR. CHANDLER: I will get everything I

24 want

*****************************

1 MR. CHANDLER: You know, you gotta

2 forgive me for one thing, but I have been told by

3 my lawyer that if I say one thing to anybody –

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Okay.

5 MR. CHANDLER: — don’t bother calling

6 him again. He said this case is so open [tape

7 irregularity] “You open your mouth and you blow

8 it,” he said, “just don’t come back to me.”

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. I respect that.

10 Okay.

11 MR. CHANDLER: Not that I don’t trust

12 you or anything –

*************************************

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why not? Why

25 couldn’t we go talk it over –

197

1 MR. CHANDLER: Because the thing’s

2 already — the thing has already been set in

3 motion.

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

5 MR. CHANDLER: It’s happening at 8:30.

6 8:36 tomorrow –

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

8 MR. CHANDLER: — it’s out of my hands.

9 I do nothing else again –

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: — after 8:36 tomorrow.

12 It’s all been automatically set in

13 motion.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not even in contact

16 anymore –

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: — with this person.

19 This thing is –

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Let me ask you this,

21 then.

22 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

23 inaudible) 8:36, unless I call in –

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

25 MR. CHANDLER: — and tell him not to

198

1 do it.

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: So why don’t you call

3 and say not to do it?

4 MR. CHANDLER: Because I’m not going

5 to.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why? Why wouldn’t you

7 go with me? I mean, we trust each other. We

8 respect each other. Why couldn’t you go with me

9 and we’d decide together?

10 MR. CHANDLER: Because I don’t want to

11 talk to you about it.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?

13 MR. CHANDLER: I want to talk to June

14 and Jordy and Michael –

14 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

15 inaudible) Michael Jackson — Michael Jackson’s

16 career, Dave. This man is gonna be humiliated

17 beyond belief. You’ll not believe it. He will not

18 believe what’s going to happen to him.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: Beyond his worst

21 nightmares. [tape irregularity] not sell one more

22 record.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

24 MR. CHANDLER: That’s for sure. And I

25 mean I’m [tape irregularity] it just has to happen

201

1 in order to get — to keep [tape irregularity] and

2 it doesn’t have to happen if they show up tomorrow.

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

4 MR. CHANDLER: But if they don’t show

5 up — and I’ve made it very clear — I’ve tried to

6 make it really clear on that answering machine,

7 “This is the last chance to talk. If you talk, we

8 have a chance. If we don’t talk, it’s all over.”

9 It’s out of my hands. I mean, what

10 else can I do?

 20 MR. CHANDLER: Then why don’t you just

21 back me up right now and let’s get rid of Michael

22 Jackson.

 5 MR. CHANDLER: There are other people

6 involved that are waiting for my phone call that

7 are intentionally going to be in certain

8 positions –

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

10 MR. CHANDLER: — [tape irregularity].

11 I paid them to do it. They’re doing their job. I

12 gotta just go ahead and follow through on the time

13 zone.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Um-hmm.

15 MR. CHANDLER: I mean the time set out.

16 Everything is going according to a certain plan

17 that isn’t just mine. There’s other people

18 involved –

A small part of the taped conversation between Evan Chandler and David Schwartz was played by Pellicano in a news conference, after the allegations were made public on August 30 and September 1, 1993.

If Evan Chandler indeed suspected that something wrong was happening, then why didn’t he go to the police? Why did he try hard to make them listen to him and give him the attention he needed? Why did he say that the issue could be resolved? Resolved in what way? And what was the issue, since June and Jordan discredited him at that point? Why did he hire a lawyer that could get what he wanted, and why was Evan rehearsed on what to say so not to say anything that could be used against him? What did he want? And why was he afraid that this could be used against him? What was the plan he was talking about that wasn’t just his?

Mr. Chandler sued June Chandler and David Schwartz for invasion of privacy, intentional infliction of emotional distress, and conspiracy because they taped him and released the audio. The mother said that they were being sued by Evan Chandler to avoid payment of child support and they filed a cross-complaint against Evan Chandler. In that cross-complaint David Schwartz stated that he did not think Michael Jackson had molested his stepson. The stepfather also sued Evan Chandler for brain damage, two counts of assault, and two counts for battery.

The paper Mr. Chandler refers to in the taped conversation as evidence, is the letter that Dr. Mathis Abrams, a psychiatrist, sent to Barry Rothman (the nasty lawyer Evan picked up). Barry Rothman was an entertainment lawyer of questionable character that had been accused for fraud, had a temper, owed people money, and had filed for bankruptcy in November 1992. He was also the lawyer of a client who accused her ex – husband for molesting their child while Mr. Rothman worked at the father’s company at the same time. As a result of his work on this case, he had some experience regarding child abuse accusations. It should be noted that Rothman, with respect to this case, was accused of conflict of interest.

Rothman called Dr. Abrams and presented him with a hypothetical incident. The psychiatrist didn’t meet with anyone at the time. Based on this hypothetical scenario by Barry Rothman, he sent back a letter stating ”reasonable suspicion exists that sexual abuse may have occurred”.  This was the letter Evan Chandler used as a bargaining tool for the $20 million dollar demand in his meeting Michael Jackson on August 4, 1993, and he is referring to it in the conversation as “evidence”.

Mr. Chandler also repeats many times how crucial it is for him to be listened to and not ignored, otherwise he will go crazy. He also said that he cried hysterically over the phone to June because he was losing but she didn’t care about his feelings. He is complaining that Michael Jackson, who has money and power, impressed his family and now is a role model for Jordan, replacing him. He also concluded that if it weren’t for MJ, June and Jordan would still be in his life. In the phone calls he appears to be clearly jealous of the superstar. The transcript is full of grandiose statements and threatening behavior. Through the years it became known that he was bipolar, receiving medical treatment for the serious mental disorder, and that he wasn’t always very compliant with his medical treatment. He also had a well known temper, and violent behavior, which is one of the reasons June divorced him. He tried to kill his son Jordan in August 2005, he hit David Schwartz, he spoke about violent behavior in the transcripts, and here is what Jackson’s biographer J. Randy Taraborelli had to say about him after he committed suicide in November 2009:

I met him several times in the 1990s. I had lots of secret meetings with Evan Chandler, trying to get to the bottom of what was going on. I was pretty young, sort of green and wish I had my present level of expertise to be able to have applied back then. I have stories about that guy that I have never even published. He was about as inconsistent as they come. He was so determined to get me on his side, I thought he was just a tad scary. If you read my book you sort of get how I felt — feel — about him. When it came out, he called me screaming at me for not just buying his story 100%.

He actually threatened me, and I thought… okay, pal, now I know who you really are. I wish it had all been handed differently. To be honest, I wish MJ had never settled, and I told Michael that several times. But… he felt he had to save his life, and I understood that, too. He really was in bad shape. However, I wish it had gone to trial so we could have had real evidence presented in a court of law – like the Arvizo nonsense — and then really been able to sort through it and come to some real decisions. It all seems so useless now, though, doesn’t it? And such a shame.”

Taraborelli, in his 2010 edition of Michael’s unauthorized biography, also writes that Evan Chandler called him after his 2003 edition was published and said “You owe me. If I ever see you again, it’s not going to go well for you. You’d better hide because I am coming for you”.

According to the court documents filed in 2006 (in which Jordan Chandler sued his father and he obtained a permanent restraining order against him), Evan Chandler hit his son from behind with a 12.5 pound weight, which means there was no self-defense involved. Then he maced him in his eyes and tried to choke him. The date of the incident is more than interesting. August 2005; Michael Jackson was acquitted on all counts on June 13, 2005. But the media, who have been negatively criticized for their unethical, unprofessional, and biased tabloid coverage, continued to lie about the singer. Did Jordan decide to speak up for Jackson and did Evan Chandler lose it again? Had Jordan defended MJ, Evan could have faced charges. Jackson’s 2005 lead defense attorney, Tom Mesereau, repeatedly said in public that he had witnesses to testify that Jordan had admitted the 1993 case was his father’s set up plan against Jackson and he was innocent of the allegations. These witnesses were Jordan’s friends. In fact, Jordan Chandler has been very talkative about it during his period in college, but the media didn’t find it convenient for their agenda to report it.

MESEREAU: Now the one you’re talking about never showed up. He’s the one who got the settlement in the early 90s. And my understanding is prosecutors tried to get him to show up and he wouldn’t. If he had, I had witnesses who were going to come in and say he told them it never happened. And that he would never talk to his parents again for what they made him say. And it turned out he had gone into court and gotten legal emancipation from his parents. His mother testified that she hadn’t talked to him in 11 years. So, you know, there was a problem there as well.
(Harvard U
niversity , November, 29 2005)

 Josephine Zohny was one of the potential witnesses for the defense in the 2005 trial, and her name can be found in the witness list. What she had to say was this: during a conversation regarding Michael Jackson’s allegations, Jordan Chandler expressed the belief that the singer was innocent, and when he referred to his father, he said that he had a poor relationship with him, and he made him do things he didn’t want to do.

The prosecution in the 2005 trial never opened the door for the defense to bring witnesses regarding the 1993 allegations. The defense’s role is to rebut the prosecution; they are not the ones who introduce subjects or witnesses to the trial. Jordan Chandler never came to testify against Jackson and his mother, who testified, did not accuse the singer of anything.

June, Michael and Jordan never showed up in that July meeting Evan was desperately asking for.

Geraldine Hughes was Barry Rothman’s legal secretary that witnessed the plot for extortion that took place in Rothman’s office. She was there when Evan Chandler had meetings with Rothman way before any allegations were made and she met Jordan as well in that very office. She described Jordan as being cool, while Evan was stressed, and Jordan was trying to calm him down. Hughes describes the plot/plan in detail in her book Redemption, in which she kept a calendar with a chronological order of the events. In the book she states that her calendar can stand the scrutiny of a forensic ink dating test. When her book was released neither Rothman nor Evan sued or challenged her. She offered her testimony to the defense during the 1993 investigation, but no trial ever took place. Among numerous things she offers in the book are overheard statements that she wrote down such as:

It’s my ass that’s on the line and in danger of going to prisonChandler yelling at Rothman after the allegations had made it to the public.  He said that on August 24 1993 and it was the day Pellicano publicly mentioned the extortion.

Chandler to Rothman  “I almost had a twenty million dollar deal”.

Rothman to Chandler telling him over the phone that they had “to meet over the weekend” before speaking to the investigator “to make sure our stories are the same”.

Rothman to Chandlerwe just have to stick to the plan, we cannot deviate from the plan”.

Pellicano to Rothman before the allegations “No way-that’s extortion”.

On July 9, 1993 June and David met with MJ’s private investigator Anthony Pellicano and played him the tape that David had made of his conversations with Evan Chandler. Michael’s lawyer Bert Fields was also present in that meeting and he represented June as well, according to her testimony. (For the record, Evan sued David for recording him and David said he did it because Evan has been violent and threatened him, and he needed evidence for his lawsuit against him). Bert Fields later said he was very concerned after hearing the tape because it sounded like extortion. The singer had already heard the tapes and he was very angry. Among other things, he said “Tell Evan that Michael Jackson said he can go to hell”.

Anthony Pellicano arranged a meeting to talk to Jordan Chandler the next day. June Chandler confirmed the meetings with Pellicano in her 2005 testimony, acknowledging the fact that Pellicano was representing her too at the time, along with Bert Fields. She was on Michael Jackson’s side against her former husband. Pellicano questioned Jordan for over an hour, asking him directly if anything inappropriate ever happened. Jordan Chandler’s answer to all of these questions was NO. Pellicano in his various media appearances at the time, talked about that day. Paul Baressi handed to Aphrodite Jones portion of the transcripts from the Jim Mitteager tapes, which were well known to the media. Mitteager was a reporter for The Globe tabloid, and he recorded his meetings with the parties involved in the 1993 case while interviewing them. Many famous journalists have listened to these tapes, and when he died his widow gave them to Baressi. Parts of these transcripts were handed over to FBI for the case against Pellicano (in 2006 he was arrested on illegal wiretapping, among other charges). Here is an excerpt handed to Jones that can be found in her official site:

TRANSCRIPT

September 1994

PELLICANO:  You have to understand something. I have nine kids.  Michael [Jackson] plays with my baby.  They crawl all over him.  They pull his hair.  They pull his nose.  Sometimes he wears a bandage across his face.  If I let my own kids (unintelligible) do you think there’s a chance?

MITTEAGER:  Well, all things being equal, I would say, no.

PELLICANO:  Not only that.  If you sat this kid [Jordie Chandler] down like I did, as a matter of fact, he couldn’t wait to get up and go play video games.  I said, “you don’t understand how serious this is.  Your dad [Evan Chandler] is going to accuse Michael of sexual molestation.  He going to say all kinds of stuff.”  He [Jordie] says, “Yeah, my dad’s trying to get money.”  As a matter of fact, I (unintelligible) for 45 minutes.  Then I tried tricking him.  I mean, I want you to know, I’m a vegetarian.  I picked this kid with a fine tooth comb.  So we’re there (unintelligible) with this kid… and If you sat down and talked to this kid, there wouldn’t be any doubt in your mind either.  And I said Michael is all upset.  We went over and over.  I tried to get him to sit down and he wants to play video games while I’m sitting there.  I’m sitting there with the kid’s mother [June Chandler] and David Swartrz walks in and (unintelligible) what’s this all about? And [Barry] Rothman(unintelligible)asking questions. There is no question that Rothman (unintelligible) what this is all about.”

http://www.aphroditejones.com/Michael_Jackson_Trial/Michael_Jackson_Trial.htm

This would not be the only time Jordan Chandler would confirm the extortion. Jordan mentioned the extortion in the Child Services report on August 17, 1993. Excerpt from the report:” Minor stated he and his father met with Michael Jackson and attorneys for father and Mr. Jackson and confronted him with allegations in an effort to make a settlement and avoid a court hearing”. Almost everyone in the media had illegally obtained this report but they chose not to mention this part with the exception of a few (non-tabloid of course) newspapers like The Times and USA Today. And there is another mention of the extortion from Ray Chandler, Evan Chandler’s brother, in his book.

Had Michael paid the twenty million dollars demanded of him in August, rather than the following January, he might have spent the next ten years as the world’s most famous entertainer, instead of the world’s most infamous child molester.”

Evan Chandler also admitted the extortion in his diary in his own words and it was read in public in May 1994. They all refer to the August 1993 meeting where the extortion took place. Their references are consistent with what Michael Jackson was telling all along, including the exact amount of money. The Chandlers self-admitted the extortion with Jordan doing it twice, even admitting that he was aware of his father’s plan. David Schwartz also referred to the extortion in a late 1993 meeting in Larry Feldman’s office.

June agreed to let her ex-husband have custody of Jordan for one week beginning July 12, 1993, as Evan Chandler requested. After this, he demanded that June sign a stipulation were he asked her not to move Jordan outside L.A., not to let him meet Michael Jackson, allowed her 2 days of visitation per week, that all child support obligations from Evan be paid in full, and that no further child support would be paid as long as he maintained Jordan’s custody. June Chandler signed it because as she said, Evan threatened not to return Jordan as it was agreed on June 18, 1993, unless she signed the stipulation.  Why did Evan need to take such extreme measures for Jordan not to meet Michael? If Jordan was molested he would avoid Jackson himself. Instead he was more than happy to visit Michael, and he was missing the scheduled visits with his father. All the people (parents and children) that saw Jordan at Neverland said to police that he looked cool, he didn’t avoid the singer, and he wasn’t afraid of him at all.

And there is also the Monaco trip in May 1993. Supposedly the alleged molestation occurred there as well. Fortunately, the World Music Awards were televised on May 12, 1993. During the whole event coverage the camera zoomed numerous times at the star of the night, Michael Jackson. We could see Lily seating on his lap, Jordan and Lily pushing each other to sit with Michael throughout the night, Lily at some point was sitting in Linda Evans’ lap, June was seating in the row behind them, and Jordan at some point is sitting in Michael’s chair, but not on his lap (Michael is moving and dancing to the song, but Jordan is still. That means he was on the seat). Jordan is comfortable with MJ, he was in a great mood and he was singing and smiling throughout the whole event. This is a weird behavior for an alleged molestation victim. In almost all video footage and photos from that trip Michael is holding Lily in his arms. Also Michael Jackson’s longtime friend and music producer Teddy Riley had this to say about meeting Jordan Chandler at Neverland:

I can only say for myself that it’s not true (the allegations) because I have met this little boy and he’s been with Michael along with my daughter, and I’ve never seen anything occur, such as something stupid like that. I think it’s a money thing. I’ve been a friend of his for over ten years and I’ve never never witnessed… I mean he’s been with my daughter, my daughter was three years old, and we stayed with him and had so much fun. He’s just a fun guy”.

Evan Chandler didn’t return his son to his mother even after she signed the stipulation. Rothman and Chandler were notified that an Ex Parte hearing would be held on August 17, 1993, for the immediate return of Jordan Chandler to his mother’s custody. Between July 12 and August 17, Evan had plenty of time to deal with his plan. Actually he had been negotiating with Michael Jackson’s camp since August 4, 1993. If MJ had given in to the extortion, Evan Chandler would have never accused him of child molestation. The whole ordeal would have been avoided. Instead MJ was armed with lawyers and investigators and didn’t pay Chandler, though he could have stopped everything right then and there. Ray Chandler confirmed the extortion by saying that if MJ had paid Evan the money he asked, he wouldn’t have accused him, and Evan Chandler said in the tape that if MJ showed up at the meeting and talked to him, nothing would happen. Evan Chandler also confirmed it in his diary.

Evan Chandler had another chance to report to the judge his suspicion of child abuse in the Ex Parte hearing. June would lose custody and Jordan would be safe. Of course Evan Chandler again didn’t report anything and the Court ordered that he should immediately return his son to his mother and that the stipulation would be overturned. It was clear that Evan Chandler was holding off reporting the allegations as part of his plan.

On August 17, 1993, instead of obeying the court’s order, Evan Chandler took his son to see the psychiatrist Dr. Abrams (who wrote his letter based on Evan’s hypothetical) who was obligated by law to report the allegations to the authorities. Ms. Hughes was the one that typed the letter for Barry Rothman to Evan Chandler advising him how to report child abuse through a third party without liability to the parent. The informative letter was sent to Evan Chandler on July 27, 1993. He had been very open about his plan that wasn’t just his as early as July 8, 1993, on the taped conversation.

“There is no way I can lose. I’ve checked that inside out”

Pay close attention to the dates. Evan has been referring to his plan as early as July 8, 1993 (that we know of). Rothman sent him the letter about Third Party Disclosure on July 27, 1993. Jordan Chandler hadn’t accused Michael Jackson of anything at that time. He was even questioned on July 10, 1993, where not only did he deny everything, but he confirmed that he was aware of his father’s plan. Up to that point Evan never contacted the police, but he was desperate to carry out his plan, make his negotiations, and force people to listen to him. The only person accusing Michael Jackson of molestation was Evan Chandler.

On August 2, 1993, during the week that Evan had temporary custody of Jordan, he extracted his son’s tooth using the questionable drug sodium Amytal. This is a psychiatric drug that is used to amnesia adult patients, and it certainly has nothing to do with the extraction of a child’s tooth. Prior to the 1993 case there was another case involving accusations under the influence of that drug (The Gary Ramona case). The defendant was acquitted, and various medical experts testified that the plaintiff’s accusations must be viewed as unreliable because of the drug. Courts, based on scientific research by medical experts and previous cases, have ruled that information obtained from narcoanalysis is inadmissible.

Mark Torbiner, a dental anesthesiologist, was present at this procedure (he was the one that introduced Evan Chandler to Barry Rothman). According to Evan Chandler himself, (in a phone interview that was aired on TV after Harvey Levin reported the story of the drug use on May 3, 1994 for KCBS-TV), when Jordan woke up under the influence of that drug, only then did he come up with allegations against Michael Jackson. That story was repeated again by Jordan for psychiatrist Dr. Richard Gardner on October 6, 1993. The transcript of that interview was made public and the full tooth story is mentioned:

“My father had to pull my tooth out one time, like, while I was there. And I don’t like pain, so I said could you put me to sleep? And he said sure. So his friend put me to sleep; he’s an anaesthesiologist. And um, when I woke up my tooth was out, and I was alright – a little out of it but conscious. And my Dad said – and his friend was gone, it was just him and me – and my dad said, ‘I just want you to let me know, did anything happen between you and Michael?’ And I said ‘Yes,’ and he gave me a big hug and that was it.”

The California Court of Appeal on August 17, 1997 for the Ramona case: “sodium amytal is, in some aspects, even more problematic than hypnosis in its effects of producing false memories and confabulations. If the patient is concerned about sexual matters, he or she will tend to recall sexual experiences. This is likely to forever distort the memory of the subject.”

But there is one thing missing from Jordan’s interview with Dr. Gardner, and that is Dr. Gardner’s report. Not only was it never mentioned, but we know from Dr. Katz’s (the psychologist who interviewed the Arvizos) testimony in 2005 that he entered the 1993 case when Larry Feldman asked him to review the tapes of that interview and give him his feedback. From the 2005 transcripts, Dr. Katz’s testimony:

13 My work was to review the videotapes that

14 were made between the victim –

15 Q. No, I’m — go ahead.

16 A. — and Dr. Richard Gardner.

17 Q. Okay.

18 A. And to review those tapes, those videotapes,

19 and to view them and analyze them to give my

20 feedback to Mr. Feldman.

Larry Feldman sent Jordan to Gardner, and he was the civil attorney for Evan Chandler in his lawsuit against Jackson. Why would Mr. Feldman need another report for that interview? Why didn’t he like Dr. Gardner’s report on Jordan Chandler and his story? Why was there no mention of Dr. Gardner’s outcome? Dr. Gardener was an expert in false child abuse allegations.

We now know from Feldman and Katz that they knew each other because Feldman’s wife is a psychologist and she knew him from the McMartin case. Dr. Katz was the one that assessed 400 children and determined that 369 of them have been sexually molested. The story turned out to be completely false and the children were highly coerced and manipulated in the interviews. From the 2005 trial transcripts Dr. Katz cross examination:

3 Q. Were you involved in that case in any

4 professional way?

5 A. Yes, I was.

6 Q. How were you involved?

7 A. I was the director of training and

8 professional education at the Children’s Institute

9 International, and that’s the agency that initially

10 interviewed all the McMartin children.

11 Q. And were you involved in that case for a

12 number of years?

13 A. Well, my involvement was that I was director

14 of the program. And Kee McFarland, who was the

15 woman who interviewed the children, actually worked

16 under me. But I was not — I did not directly

17 interview the children’s parents.

18 I did interview — my involvement with the

19 McMartin case was, I did do assessments. I was

20 asked by the Department of Children & Family

21 Services to assess the children of the alleged

22 perpetrators to see if they had been molested.

23 Other than that, I had very little involvement

24 directly with the case.

25 Q. Is it your understanding that that was

26 perhaps the longest and largest criminal case in the

27 history of Los Angeles County?

28 A. I think it was.

So Larry Feldman knew how easily Dr. Katz diagnosed sexual molestation. No wonder why he chose him when Dr. Gardner’s report didn’t serve Mr. Chandler’s plan. Yet it was the same Dr. Katz who, in a taped conversation dated June 2003 with sheriff’s investigator Paul Zelis of Santa Barbara Police Department, said the following about Michael Jackson:

“And, you know, he doesn’t even really qualify as a paedophile. He’s really just this regressed 10-year-old.”

“Yeah, yeah, I agree,” replied Zelis.”

The expert who sees sexual abuse everywhere around him said that and Zelis agreed.

August 2, 1993 was the first time Evan Chandler allegedly heard his son saying he was molested by the singer. So what was the story with Evan accusing MJ prior to that? And why didn’t Evan report the abuse? Why didn’t he mention it on August 17, 1993 at the Ex Parte hearing for custody? Apparently, it was not part of the plan. The allegations begun to form only after Jordan was removed from his mother and was isolated under his father’s control. Up to this point, the only person accusing Jackson of molestation was Evan Chandler and nobody else.

On August 4, 1993, there was a meeting which is described by Pellicano in his interview to Mary Fischer. The same was repeated for Randy Taraborelli who had interviewed everyone involved in the case. From the 1994 GQ article:

Chandler and his son met with Jackson and Pellicano in a suite at the Westwood Marquis Hotel. On seeing Jackson, says Pellicano, Chandler gave the singer an affectionate hug (a gesture, some say, that would seem to belie the dentist’s suspicions that Jackson had molested his son), then reached into his pocket, pulled out Abrams’s letter and began reading passages from it. When Chandler got to the parts about child molestation, the boy, says Pellicano, put his head down and then looked up at Jackson with a surprised expression, as if to say “I didn’t say that.” As the meeting broke up, Chandler pointed his finger at Jackson, says Pellicano, and warned “I’m going to ruin you.”

Anthony Pellicano also said about that meeting where both Evan and Jordan Chandler hugged Michael Jackson: “If I believed that somebody had molested my kid and I got that close to him, I’d be in the death row right now”.

That same night Rothman made the $20 million dollar demand to Pellicano.

On August 9, 1993, Rothman met with Pellicano, who, according to Geraldine Hughes, yelled at Rothman “no way, that’s extortion!”. Pellicano later sent a fax to Rothman stating that Michael Jackson didn’t do anything wrong and he will not pay the money requested. They met again on August 13. The recorded conversation with Barry Rothman was all about money, and molestation was not mentioned. Mr. Rothman was very careful in the conversation, as Pellicano was very famous for taping people. When Pellicano brought up the $20 million demand made by Rothman ($5million each for 4 movie deals), the lawyer answered “we’re past that point”. Barry Rothman certainly did not sound like he was hearing the extortion issue for the first time.

Did Jordan participate in the plan to please his father during the bitter custody battle? Did Evan really give the drug to Jordan? Torbiner, who was supposedly present and administered the drug, was reluctant to speak about that day, saying only the confusing “If I used it, it was for dental purposes”. But the medical experts and the drug’s instructions refuted Torbiner, because it can’t be used for dental purposes and it can’t be used on minors. We know that Jordan was aware of his father’s plan in July 10, 1993, and he denied any allegation against Jackson. The choice of Jordan’s words when he was approached in 2005 to testify in the trial is more than interesting. He told the FBI that he wasn’t interested in testifying against Jackson, and threatened to take legal action if Sneddon tried to subpoena him, and he said “I have done my part”.

What was his part? Did he participate in his father’s plan instead of being manipulated during anaesthesia?  Why is Torbiner silent? According to Jordan Chandler, Torbiner (who has a proven questionable professional past  because he illegally drugged people) was not present in the scene between Jordan and his farther, a very convenient move because there was no witness. And just why did the anaesthesiologist leave before the patient’s full recovery, especially after having given him a dangerous drug for which there are no legal doses for someone of Jordan’s age? Evan Chandler even tried to frame Jackson in his home in May 1993 where he invited him despite his suspicions, brought Torbiner to drug him when he complained about a headache, and put him to sleep in Jordan’s bedroom. Evan Chandler did have controlling behaviour, he was violent, he was mentally ill, he was jealous of Michael Jackson, he wanted to become a screenwriter and quit his job as a dentist, he was hungry for money and he did have a plan. And Torbiner’s role is very mysterious. The timeline, the contradictions and the events surrounding the case always spoke loud enough for themselves.

Evan Chandler covered everything the best possible way. He was never going to be accused of perjury because it was Dr. Abrams who reported the allegations, not him. And it was not his fault that Jordan came up with allegations under the drug’s influence. Jordan had already changed his story, which makes him an incredible witness, plus he changed it under the drug’s influence, so legally he couldn’t be blamed, or be believed. Evan made sure that his son could not be a credible witness and he could never be competent to stand trial. Not one of the Chandlers was going to be accused of perjury. Yes, it was indeed a good plan. Remember Evan’s words:

“There is no way I can lose. I’ve checked that inside out”

152 Comments leave one →
  1. September 27, 2015 10:38 am

    Ive heard about the witnesses against Jordan a few times but never that detailed. Where does it say the thing about Josephine Zohny? Is there a motion or something about her?

    Like

  2. May 13, 2014 8:19 am

    May I ask, what is meant by Jordan expressing his “belief” that Michael was innocent? In the part about Josephine Zohny.

    Like

  3. February 15, 2014 9:21 am

    Many a truth is said in jest. “lovenest with 12-15 yo. and the rabbi: 2 12 yo are the best.
    Humor does not excuse him from child abuse. And ShAME ON THE PRESSS

    Like

  4. February 15, 2014 12:53 am

    “ah, thanks for that response! so just to clarify, did evan get the idea to accuse michael AFTER or BEFORE he became suspicious that something was going on? like, when he was given insight that something weird might be going on, did he THEN put his plan into action? or did he develop it before his real suspicions arose?” – Alex

    Alex, don’t be ridiculous. How can anyone know for sure when exactly this crazy man decided to accuse Michael? What if he began dreaming of it since the moment he heard that Jordan met Michael at all? (which was in 1992)

    And what if it was something staged from the very start of it? Something incited by someone else?

    Like

  5. Alex permalink
    February 14, 2014 9:39 pm

    ah, thanks for that response! so just to clarify, did evan get the idea to accuse michael AFTER or BEFORE he became suspicious that something was going on? like, when he was given insight that something weird might be going on, did he THEN put his plan into action? or did he develop it before his real suspicions arose?

    Like

  6. TatumMarie permalink
    February 14, 2014 4:34 pm

    Hi,
    During Michael’s first visits with Evan Chandler we have heard rumors of tape recordings, confrontations, etc. It also could be true that he didn’t have any bad suspicions at all and just wanted to use Michael to establish his own career.

    Like

  7. February 14, 2014 12:49 pm

    “i’m confused about a few things with regards to evan chandler. 1. why did he originally ask michael if he was doing anything inappropriate with michael in the first place?’ – Alex

    Alex, and what do you think? Why would anyone blurt out a strange thing like that to anyone at all? Especially if it was one of his first meetings with MJ or even the first one? (now I don’t remember which one it was)

    In my opinion he could ask that only because someone had told him about it and raised his suspicions. It could have been anyone in Hollywood because those guys are like that themselves (as we now know from Corey Feldman) and they had no doubt that Michael was one of them. But the most likely person to approach Evan was Victor Gutierrez who – for about 3 years prior to Jordan Chandler’s allegations – had been specially making rounds of all parents whose children were friends with Michael.

    He said he was interviewing them for his book, but started his interviews with an opening that “everyone knows that MJ is a ped-le”. He writes about this “introduction” in his book himself. He says that when parents disbelieved him he asked them to let him “explain” after which he showered them with lies and speculations about MJ.

    So those rounds were actually dissemination of lies about Jackson. And Evan Chandler could easily believe them. He was extremely suspicious by nature and those seeds of lies surely fell on a fertile land.

    2. why when talking to schwartz when schwartz asked if he knew if anything was going on, did evan respond, “I don’t know, i have no idea.” did he actually THINK something was going on, and used mere speculation to make the accusations? if he thought something bad happened, why did he seem to encourage jordie’s relationship with michael while also seeming so suspicious of how appropriate there relationship was or wasn’t?

    He had no idea what was going on – he said it himself. This is why he invited Michael to his home and made special arrangements to place Michael into Jordan’s and Nicky’s room. Their maid said she suggested a separate room, but Evan and Natalie wanted it that way. This is why the maid was disgusted and later said to Gutierrez that Evan Chandler was sort of prostituting his son.

    But Evan Chandler wasn’t. His intentions were different – he wanted to test Michael. One of the investigators even said in an interview that there could be a tape recorder under that bed (which evidently produced nothing, or otherwise we would have had the tape).

    Michael stayed at Evan Chandler’s for a couple of days, however nothing extraordinary happened. The second day Michael had an splitting migraine (from his scalp surgery) and Evan Chandler gave him an injection of Toradol (evidently in the buttocks) – a powerful sedative and analgetic. Michael got groggy and talkative. Evan Chandler took advantage of it and according to Ray Chandler’s book asked him if he was gay. Michael said “Not me” but disclosed who in the Hollywood was.

    I’m more than sure that Evan interrogated him on a wide range of questions. Then they took him to Jordan’s room where Michael fell asleep as he was already too drowsy. So that sleepover in Jordan’s room was clearly a staged event. However even this didn’t produce any tangible result. Evan still didn’t have any facts and by the beginning of July when that telephone recording was made he was still harboring suspicions only and “had no idea” what was going on.

    Like

  8. TatumMarie permalink
    February 13, 2014 7:15 pm

    To simplify, did Evan act as someone who believed it? Nope.

    Like

  9. TatumMarie permalink
    February 13, 2014 7:13 pm

    He was bipolar and possibly schizophrenic, he would have believed anything. It really doesn’t matter what he believes the evidence shows it didn’t happen.

    Like

  10. Alex permalink
    February 13, 2014 5:57 pm

    so, in other words, evan DID think michael was guilty? this is all so confusion:/

    Like

  11. TatumMarie permalink
    February 13, 2014 4:22 pm

    Evan made those statements because he hadn’t witnessed anything, hadn’t conceived of molestation, and wasn’t even around to assume that. Do I believe the part where he allegedly ask Michael if he was f#?*ing Jordan…No. Some stories were concocted for sensationalism and to show that he had suspicion prior to Michael kicking him out the picture. There is evidence to believe that someone else in Evan’s camp was leading him on and putting the ideas of molestation in his head.

    Like

  12. Alex permalink
    February 13, 2014 12:58 pm

    i’m confused about a few things with regards to evan chandler. 1. why did he originally ask michael if he was doing anything inappropriate with michael in the first place? 2. why when talking to schwartz when schwartz asked if he knew if anything was going on, did evan respond, “I don’t know, i have no idea.” did he actually THINK something was going on, and used mere speculation to make the accusations? like, did he have any belief whatsoever something inappropriate might have happened? also, if he thought something bad happened, why did he seem to encourage jordie’s relationship with michael while also seeming so suspicious of how appropriate there relationship was or wasn’t?

    Like

  13. sanemjfane permalink
    September 29, 2012 9:33 pm

    Good news! Mary Fischer will be publishing her 1994 GQ article “Was Michael Jackson Framed?” as a paperback and and Kindle eBook on October 4th, and it will include a brand new foreword from her! http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Mary+Fischer+Was+Michael+Jackson+Framed

    Here’s the link to download the free Kindle app for PC, which will allow readers to buy and read the Kindle eBook without actually owing a Kindle eReader: http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_pc_mkt_lnd?docId=1000426311

    Here’s the Kindle app for Mac:http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000464931

    Like

  14. sanemjfan permalink
    August 16, 2012 9:30 am

    Here’s some media coverage of Miko Brando’s testimony during the 1994 grand jury proceedings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iuhH1aWfDE&feature=BFa&list=UUhKEnXuy_9rtWJzZdRRnlxA

    Like

  15. sanemjfan permalink
    July 31, 2012 2:27 pm

    Here is Geralide Hughes’ 2 hour interview with BLog Talk Radio: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cadeflaw/2012/07/28/geraldine-hughes-presents-redemption–the-movie-2013

    Like

  16. shelly permalink
    September 27, 2011 4:51 am

    I found interesting that except for Michael no Hayvenhurst five were called to testify against MJ.

    Like

  17. shelly permalink
    September 27, 2011 4:12 am

    Michael Jackson’s millions lure cons of all stripes.

    By ABIOLA SINCLAIR

    Media Editor

    Shaking off the PBS “Front Line” criticism like a dog shakes off fleas, “Hard Copy,” in one of its “exclusives,” this time backed up as sworn testimony, maintains they “have the smoking gun.”

    This time it’s Jackson’s former female bodyguard, Charlie Michaels, a blond no-nonsense-looking White woman who swears that she saw Michael in an inappropriate situation with a young boy.

    She maintained she worked for him for three years, guarding his person and protecting the ranch. She said Michael had a boy in his dance studio teaching him to dance and showing him how he does it. She said Michael then “draped himself over the boy after going through some steps and touched his (the boy’s) crotch…Michael then said ‘wheeee’ the way he does (when he grabs his own crotch).”

    According to Michaels, she gave her statement to the Los Angeles D.A.’s office as part of their criminal investigation. She is also part of the latest civil suit case with four other former bodyguards who maintain they were fired because they “knew too much” about Jackson’s personal business, which included, they say, child molestation and pedophilia.

    The “Front Line” look at tabloid journalism reported that the bodyguards, at least two of then, received six-figure payments for appearing on the TV tabloids saying what they saw.

    “Hard Copy” seems determined to bring Jackson down. Michaels Jackson was not going to sing. NBC advertised that Jackson would appear and would perform. As for Jackson, he looked good. Performing at the special were Dionne Warwick, Gladys Knight, Smokey Robinson, Louis Gossett, comedian Paul Rodriguez and others.

    Despite the case being dropped against Michael Jackson due to an out-of-court settlement, there is grand jury testimony going on in Santa Barbara, spurred on by the district attorney’s office. Several people connected with the Jackson case have been subpoenaed to testify under oath as to what they know or knew about Jackson’s personal affairs. The Santa Barbara office is hoping to get lucky with some testimony that could be grounds for an indictment against Jackson.

    Scheduled to testify is a mother of a young boy that Jackson’s bodyguards claim was molested by Jackson. The mother has already stated that she has no complaint against Jackson, but the DAs office is purshing the issue because bodyguards to Jackson claim Jackson paid her off.

    Also set to testify are Jackson’s chauffeur Gary Hearns; bodyguard Lee Tucker, who is part of the suit against Jackson, and the big fish, Norma Stacous, the head of Jackson’s M.J.J. Productions, who was named by several informants, but who was conveniently out of the country for most of the scandal but who was conveniently but has since returned.

    She supposedly assumed the coast was clear because of the out-of-court settlement, but the Santa Barbara DA’s office is trying to make a name for itself.

    Ethnic NewsWatch SoftLine Information, Inc., Stamford, CT

    Like

  18. September 27, 2011 1:32 am

    This is incredible! I already knew of most of this, but hearing it in much more detail is fantastic!! I actually had no idea that the reason Chandler chose Sneddon was that he was publicity hungry, mean, and (don’t we all know it) the nastiest SOB out there. Thank you for this amazing article! I’m bookmarking it and will possibly use it in the future to back some of my arguments.

    Like

  19. August 5, 2011 12:08 am

    Excellent Olga.

    Like

  20. June 16, 2011 7:14 am

    Michael Jackson HATERS should read this so that they get educated and stop being so ignorant and stop being so naive into getting manipulated by the media!

    Like

  21. TatumMarie permalink
    May 28, 2011 4:15 am

    I ‘ve had similar experience with the sodium amytal- when DD wrote that their wasnt any proof that it was used. That turned out to be true too- but she always elaborates and twist the information.

    Like

  22. lynande51 permalink
    May 28, 2011 3:34 am

    @Tatum, I know when you first read any of the books all you feel is anger. There are little bits of information that are in them mostly the chronologies. In DD’s book there is one portion about the Neverland Five and their lawsuit. I don’t know if you remember but they were also suing several of Michael’s employee’s for among the charges sexual harrassment. One of the Personal security guards that was named in that suit was Jerome Johnson. Well he “got religion” and decided to “tell the truth”. However on his first day of testimony a letter was found at the defense table and they asked for an In Camera hearing with the judge. The letter stated:
    ” In the best interest of all concerned in regard to case number SM 89344 we ask that seven million( $7,000,000.00) be wired to the following no later than Wednesday, January 24,1996: Great Western Bank,401 California Street. San Francisco California 94104. Account Number 062-808-364. After verification of receipt, outstanding items will be completed and forwarded to to the appropriate parties and full cooperation will be extended.’
    According to her book Judge Zel Canter was so angry about it he had a DNA analysis done of the saliva on the envelope. He ordered swabs taken from all the participants and it turned out to be a match to Jerome Johnsons wife. When he was finally called to the stand he took the fifth. So there was no help for the Neverland Five.
    I thought that was just her being dramatic but it turned out to be true except of course the truth was 3 million not seven. I think Diane Dimond needs a remedial math course the way numbers just continue to grow around her. It comes out in the testimony of the Neverland Five. I guess one way to win a case of extortion is to continue to extort the money right?

    Like

  23. TatumMarie permalink
    May 28, 2011 2:02 am

    @Truth Prevail
    THANK YOU:)

    Like

  24. lynande51 permalink
    May 28, 2011 12:30 am

    Helena I intend to post excerpts of it with the piece I am writing on the Neverland Five. I am looking for the Spanish version of the book because there are additional pages of it. YOu are right the fantasy is unbelievable and very laughable. I will emai lyou to let you know about the Spanish version.

    Like

  25. Truth Prevail permalink
    May 27, 2011 10:37 pm

    no1 here should be taking vg word as gospel like you guys said hes a proven lier prob gets paid to come up with the nastiest BS he can think of so you guys shouldnt take his word for it that he was on mj in the 80’s hes a horrible man!

    Like

  26. TatumMarie permalink
    May 27, 2011 7:50 pm

    I agree with you Vindicate MJ. When I read BCWYL I was disgusted and angry – but when you focus on what is being written it is hilarious and proves how innocent Michael was. Her writing of the 2005 trial actually filled in some bits and pieces to Aphrodite Jones book.

    Like

  27. May 27, 2011 6:24 pm

    “Tatum have you read MJWML?”

    Lynette, I don’t know whether Tatum has read it but I have just finished reading it. And I want to share one thing with you and all of us here.

    The previous time I read some excerpts from it, my heart beat like wild due to the shock, disgust and a feeling of helplessness in the face of so much dirt. But now the impression was totally different – I balanced between disgust, incredulity at his boundless fantasy and occasionally even laughed, as VG’s lies are simply indescribable!

    If you have a little patience with me I would like to present the book here doing it bit by bit.

    Like

  28. lynande51 permalink
    May 27, 2011 4:27 pm

    I would like the Spanishversion of his book.I think there are answers in there that are not in the English version. There is more to his Spanish version than there is in the English another chapter. I have been researching the Neverland Five and as far back as their lawsuit those people were saying that Michael fed kids alcohol in Coke cans. Sound familiar?

    Like

  29. TatumMarie permalink
    May 27, 2011 2:10 pm

    Yes, I’ve read the disgrace of a book. Its main foundation is a lie. During the post there was only one about Michael.

    Like

  30. May 27, 2011 1:03 pm

    Nambla and V.G. were ambivalent regarding Michael.They were drooling to get him for their posterboy. V.G. had been in the close geographical aerea since 1984.He and NAMBLA surreptitiously spread their ideas, how else would they get new members.And living in L.A.
    V.G. can not have been unaware of Michael and his realtionships with children.I read that he started to contact some of the earlier child friends of Michael and possibly also his staff members.When the story of Evan Chandler, Jordie and Michael became public,and maybe he knew something of it earlier,this presented an opportunity for him ,wether for goood or for bad, but certainly for some influence either way.
    It is difficult to get hard proof on when and how he first enters into the story though.

    Like

  31. lynande51 permalink
    May 27, 2011 5:23 am

    Tatum have you read MJWML?

    Like

  32. TatumMarie permalink
    May 27, 2011 3:09 am

    I found the bulletin and translated it – Still doesnt prove anything especially since they’ve labeled other celebrities as well. The other connection is VG’s words, which I cant….

    Like

  33. Suzy permalink
    May 26, 2011 4:02 am

    I think you should ask the writers of the article if these can be found online. Though they have marked the source very precisely: [”Dog” Star Shines Brightly on U.S. Tour, by Rene Sanchez; Nambla Bulletin, vol. 8 n. 8; October 1987.]“

    If you are suspicious of them making it up I guess you can research and look into it yourself by the data they have given about the publication.

    Like

  34. TatumMarie permalink
    May 26, 2011 3:56 am

    @Suzy
    I would like to see these sources myself. The only thing I’m seeing is blog information.:)

    Like

  35. Suzy permalink
    May 26, 2011 3:29 am

    @ Tatum

    “I’m sorry, the evidence that the NAMBLA labeled Michael as their poster boy before 1993 was?”

    Have you read the latest article on this blog? https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/05/23/5900/

    “In 1987, Anton Glanzelius, the actor of the film My life as a dog, met Michael Jackson in Neverland for one day. NAMBLA posted the newspapers reports about it in their bulletin as a “proof” that they were right about Jackson being one of them:

    While Anton Glanzelius was in Los Angeles, an admirer who had seen the movie twice tracked him down and invited him to his home at 11 on a Friday night. ”Michael Jackson’s house was so big and beautiful,” Anton says, still stunned that the singer extended the invitation. ”And he was very friendly. I liked him very much, but he was very shy.”

    [”Dog” Star Shines Brightly on U.S. Tour, by Rene Sanchez; Nambla Bulletin, vol. 8 n. 8; October 1987.]”

    Like

  36. TatumMarie permalink
    May 25, 2011 10:37 pm

    Im sorry but I can not base a theory on VG’s words. The man is demented and a pedophile himself.

    Like

  37. May 25, 2011 8:53 pm

    “Hard evidence that VG was in the scene before 1993 anyone?”

    We haven’t got hard evidence that VG was planting suspicions into Evan Chandler’s mind (yet).

    But what we have is Victor Gutierrez’s own words where he says he had been following Michael at least since 1989/90 (other sources say 1986). He calls it nothing less than an investigation to prove that Michael was a p. (and not the investigation to find out the truth as one would expect from a neutral researcher):

    “The investigation to prove that Jackson is a p. (an adult who is sexually attracted to minors) took me nearly four years. I began three years before the news of the accusation against Jackson exploded.”

    [Source: Introduction to his book about MJ]

    Like

  38. May 25, 2011 8:37 pm

    “the evidence that the NAMBLA labeled Michael as their poster boy before 1993?”

    Tatum, here is the evidence:
    The German newspaper http://www.taz.de/?id=archivseite&dig=2005/04/05/a0170 published an article in April 2005 which said the following about Victor Gutierrez (summarized and translated by Suzy from German):

    “In 1986 he reports from a congress of NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association). NAMBLA was founded in the 70s. It „supports relationships between generations”. It was supported by prominent names like Gore Vidal and Allen Ginsberg. It got quickly isolated from the rest of the gay movement. Gutierrez claims he heard at this congress for the first time that „Michael is one of us.” He says: „Jackson was treated like an idol there, as a hope for social acceptance.”

    One would wonder why Victor Gutierrez suddenly confided in a journalist that in 1986 he ‘reported’ from a NAMBLA congress? He most probably just relaxed as the journalist sympathized with his views. Later on Suzy found the following information about that pro-ped-lia newspaper:

    “Indeed, the German newspaper (Die Tageszeitung) which conducted and published the above interview with Gutierrez has a history in advocating p-lia! Look what I have found about them”:

    “In 2010, an article emerged on the website Spiegel Online titled “The Sexual Revolution and Children: How the left took things too far”. The article mentions Tageszeitung’s promotion of Children’s sexual liberation during the 1970s.[2] A series in Tageszeitung titled “I Love Boys” featured interviews with men who described “how beautiful and liberating sex with preadolescent boys supposedly was”.[3] The article goes on to mention that those who opposed sexual experimentation with children, such as the magazine’s then editor Gitti Hentschel were accused of being “prudish” by others who accused them of inhibiting freedom of expression and children’s sexuality.[4]“

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Tageszeitung#Pedophilia_Controversy

    And one of our readers recalled seeing Gutierrez in that (or another) TV interview and him saying that he thought that “Michael was one of us” thus giving away Gutierrez at least as a sympathizer of ped-les …

    More about it here: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/10/07/victor-gutierrez-is-a-link-to-nambla-and-real-pedophiles-was-michaels-persecution-a-big-p-plan/

    Like

  39. TatumMarie permalink
    May 25, 2011 8:18 pm

    Hard evidence that VG was in the scene before 1993 anyone?

    Like

  40. TatumMarie permalink
    May 25, 2011 8:15 pm

    I’m sorry, the evidence that the NAMBLA labeled Michael as their poster boy before 1993 was?

    Like

  41. May 25, 2011 8:09 pm

    “What I think is that Victor Gutierrez talked to Evan and made some deliberate remarks with lies those triggered suspicion in Evan’s mind. It’s enough if he just said: “I see your handsome son is hanging out with Jackson. I don’t know if you know, but there are rumours about him being a p-le.” If VG “only” did this it’s perfectly enough for a sick mind like Evan’s!”

    Suzy, of course it would have been enough for Gutierrez to drop a hint or two into Evan’s mind for him to be become absolutely uncontrollable in his thoughts and deeds. But the fact is – Victor Gutierrez never bothered to make hints!

    HE STATED HIS SUSPICIONS AS IF THERE WERE FACTS. We know it from his own book where he described the opening of his conversation with Wade Robson and his mother:

    Quote: “I introduced myself to the mother saying that I was a journalist and that I was writing a book about Jackson which concerned his relationship with minors, including his being a p-le.”

    So this is how Gutierrez opened his conversation with various people? Saying that he was writing a book which concerned Michael’s relationship including Michael being “this and that”? And I suppose that his intonation was that of a “well-informed guy” who is surprised that “this well-known fact” has not yet reached the ears of the person he is “interviewing”? Was it an interview at all or was it dissemination of lies about Michael done on a regular basis? Can you imagine what impression this kind of a statement could make on Evan Chandler?

    “Do I have evidence for this particular conversation ever happening? No”

    No, we don’t but I simply cannot see what could have prevented Victor Gutierrez from talking to Evan Chandler. If he made good friends with the Chandlers’ maid Norma Salinas why couldn’t he talk to Evan?

    “However now we have evidence that p-les have been after Michael long before 1993 and this actually corroborates with the VG theory”.
    EXACTLY.

    Like

  42. TatumMarie permalink
    May 25, 2011 6:03 pm

    @ lynande51
    So one portion of the confrontation is credible but not the rest? Jordan was exempt from penalty of perjury but not Evan who was required to fill out documents about any interactions or experiences with Jackson during meetings with Feldman that would support his son’s claims. The confrontation and other situations (like the cuddling) would have been in those documents.

    He failed to mention these occurrences for 2 reasons:
    1. He had no experiences or confrontations that he was willing to express under perjury laws.
    2. He had no confrontations or experiences and didnt see anything.

    Like

  43. May 25, 2011 5:42 pm

    “However, wouldn’t it make more sense for him to have approach June?”

    Teva, from what I know of this worm-like creature Victor Gutierrez he did surely try to approach June – but only June was not as susceptible to Victor’s lies as Evan was.

    Even Gutierrez In his collection-of-lies-book admits again and again that neither June, nor her husband David ever believed Evan Chandler’s accusations against Michael. Gutierrez says that when Jordan allegedly told his mother the ‘molestation’ details she started crying but then calmed down and said she wanted to talk to her son without Evan’s presence as the boy was clearly brainwashed by him. If this episode is credible at least by 50% it means that June was so sure of Michael that she didn’t believe her own son (and would surely disbelieve the ridiculous Gutierrez if he approached her with his fantasies).

    June’s husband David Schwartz (again according to Gutierrez) “refused to even consider the possibility of sexual relationship between Jordan and MJ” and was so sure of Michael’s innocence that he said that “the reason for Evan’s behavior is either he wants money or he is crazy”. However what David did say (again according to Gutierrez) is that “his wife is a disgraceful whore”.

    When Dave asked her to break away from Michael she allegedly said to Evan: “I would sooner break away from him than from Michael Jackson” and at some point Evan thought that “it would be ideal if June married Michael”.

    It seems that both June and David knew a totally different side of the “relationship story” with Michael as it never occurred to any of them to think of any wrong between him and Jordan.

    Like

  44. May 25, 2011 5:19 pm

    “Just in case anyone is wondering that Declaration means nothing. A person under the age of 14 can not be held legally responsible for perjury in the state of California.”

    Aha, Lynette, so this is why Larry Feldman was in so much hurry to make that document before Jordan turned fourteen on January 11, 1994!
    If he had made that declaration only two weeks later he could have been held answerable for perjury! Isn’t it a wonder to see all these small details fitting in?

    Like

  45. May 25, 2011 10:00 am

    “MJJ Justice Project did an AMAZING job of analyzing Evan Chandler’s taped phone call with Dave Schwartz”

    David, I agree – the job done by MJJ Justice Project is indeed amazing. The observations are very insightful, and help a lot in understanding Evan’s real motives. For some who haven’t yet read it here are some quotes from the MJJ Justice Project:

    – “Part of Evan Chandler’s motivation was the jealously that Michael had a better relationship with Jordan than he had, even though Chandler was his father. However, Jordan was 13 years old and if Evan had never developed a trusting and loving relationship with his son prior to the introduction of MJ into their lives, then it’s no wonder that the father son bond broke down”.

    “The times Chandler uses the word “I” throughout this conversation is relevant in that it denotes his ‘ego’ and his hurt ego is clearly a motivating factor in his subsequent actions”.

    (“I” is a recurrent theme in everything Evan said and wrote. You can even regard it as his logo or “signature” by which you can recognize his authorship in various writings. Speaking about Evan when necessary and when unnecessary is a clear sign of Evan putting his hand to whatever text you are analyzing – please go to these posts to see two of such documents:
    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/05/15/the-60-mln-case-as-a-final-verdict-for-evan-chandler/
    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/07/06/welcome-to-the-main-hater%E2%80%99s-site/)

    “Oh, you can believe he is “taking that personally” because his words and actions are indeed very personal. Even though Chandler and June were divorced he still had a major amount of influence in her life because he was Jordan’s father. However, for approximately one year, Jackson had slowly displaced him as the decision maker on what, when, how, and where his family was going”.

    “Evan spoke about how HE was alienated, not listened to, not considered as a role model, and how he had trouble paying on his financial obligations. THAT is MOTIVE. Any normal person who truly believed his child was a victim, he would first of all:
    #1 Not meet with the molester to ‘resolve’ the issue, in the first place and
    #2 Not mince any words
    #3 and if the first two natural tendencies did not occur to him; NOT expose his child to this confrontational meeting ( much like Schwartz had advised ).

    However, as the conversation continues it is clear that Chandler didn’t really think Jordan was being molested, in reality, he believed that Jordan was a “selfish user” as he described June and that his participation in the “alienation” of his father was neither acceptable or forgivable. Chandler insisted that Jordan be there to witness how he was going to snatch back the power from MJ and his ex-wife June. He was using is own power against his son who would not have an understanding to what is going on because simply, molestation did not occur. Behaviorally speaking, this action places Jordan at the whim of his parents. This was a child of 13 years old who cannot live without their financial support”

    “Notice Evan does not say that it is “molestation” that “could” be harming him- no parent in their right mind would allow a “suspected” molestation to endure for months before doing anything about it. Behaviorally, this means that molestation was not the issue, but rather Evan’s alienation from the family- and the real issues surround from him not being a role model to his son”.

    – “Evan had behaved exactly as he said he would and with the “professional advice” he apparently went by it. These actions are not by a loving parent wanting justice for their son, these are actions by someone who had a plan, who was planning to extort money and who went by the words said in these conversations”.

    Quoted from: http://mjjjusticeproject.wordpress.com/2011/04/19/chandlers-behavior-and-words/

    Like

  46. lynande51 permalink
    May 25, 2011 6:27 am

    Tatum I don’t think that Michael giggled never have never will. I do think that VG was helpful when he was working out the details of Jordans story for him.
    Just so you know, Evan Chandler never gave a separate interview to the police outside the DCFS interview with Jordan because of the extortion charges. His lawyer would never have allowed it. None of the Chandlers were ever deposed in the civil case. Jordans Declaration that was taken and signed by him on December 28th and attached to a Motion for Michael’s financial records was the closest that anyone in that family ever came to being under penality of perjury.
    Just in case anyone is wondering that Declaration means nothing. A person under the age of 14 can not be held legally responsible for perjury in the state of California. His signature meant nothing because a person under the age of 18 cannot sign a legal document for themselves they must have a Guardian Ad Litem. Jordan also petitioned the court at that time to have a Guardian Ad Litem to make any settlement decisions . Once the Guardian Ad litem was on board it was taken completely out of the Chandler’s hands. It was settled by a Guardian Ad Litem that would have interviewed Jordan and decided what would have been in his best interest. Jordan’s Guardian Ad Litem was retired Appellate Judge Jack Goertzen.

    Like

  47. lcpledwards permalink
    May 25, 2011 3:40 am

    @ Lynette, TatumMarie, Suzy, & Helena

    I don’t know if you guys have read this post yet, but MJJ Justice Project did an AMAZING job of analyzing Evan Chandler’s taped phone call with Dave Schwartz, and they went line by line to scrutinize everything that he said. I see you guys are discussing when Evan may have felt suspicious about MJ, and maybe this will help out: http://mjjjusticeproject.wordpress.com/2011/04/19/chandlers-behavior-and-words/

    Like

  48. TatumMarie permalink
    May 25, 2011 3:07 am

    You guys there is “evidence” that Evan was concerned about sexual abuse before Rothman. On the weekend May21st Evan met Michael for the first time at his Century City Condo “The Hideout”. The first sentence out of his mouth was ” are you fucking my son?”

    You’ve just made my case – that is Evan’s story.

    So you believe that Michael just giggled after Chandler asked such a demeaning question too, right? This conversation was no where in Evans claims or declarations. If he is not going to add this confrontation under penalty of perjury – than why are we making it an edict? What you just referenced is when VG came into play.

    The books you referenced have 2 things in common;
    1. All the authors used VG or Evan as a source.
    2. All can be bought on amazon for 1 cent.

    Like

  49. lynande51 permalink
    May 25, 2011 1:18 am

    You guys there is “evidence” that Evan was concerned about sexual abuse before Rothman. By all accounts ( ATG, BCWYL and MJWML) they arrived back in the LA in May16th from Europe after Monaco and Disney world. On the weekend May21st Evan met Michael for the first time at his Century City Condo “The Hideout”. The first sentence out of his mouth was ” are you fucking my son?” I’d say he wanted to have those suspicions considering he had nothing to base that on at that moment. So who or what made him that kind of suspicious? Was he just unbelievably paranoid or had someone been giving him ideas?

    Like

  50. Teva permalink
    May 24, 2011 10:53 pm

    “Who planted those ideas into his unstable mind is still a question, but everything is pointing into one direction – that of Victor Gutierrez who said it himself that he was making rounds of all boys (and parents) who were friends of Michael Jackson. So why he would he suddenly bypass Jordan” – VindicateMJ

    This is true, why would he bypass Jordan? However, wouldn’t it make more sense for him to have approach June? She was the one who was in the company of Michael with Jordan, she had legal & physical custody of the boy.

    Like

  51. May 24, 2011 9:18 pm

    “Still, the documents Michael’s team (the genuine defense) filed in 2005 stated that the settlement was against Michael’s wishes”

    Yes, the settlement was against Michael’s wishes – we can be absolutely sure of it. But the fact whether it was the insurance company or just his lawyers who forced him to make a settlement is, in my opinion, of minor importance.

    Like

  52. May 24, 2011 9:12 pm

    “The point is when and how did it FIRST occur in Evan’s mind to accuse MJ of child molestation or to suspcet he is m-ing his son? Whose idea was it? Was it his own or somebody else planted those thoughts in his mind?”

    Suzy, you are right in stressing this point. I am currently reading Victor Gutierrez’s disgusting book and according to his chronology Evan Chandler asked Michael that incredible question about his possible sexual relations with Jordan sometime in MAY while Rothman was retained in JULY only (when he started, by the way, a civil suit against Michael, June Chandler and David Schwartz – interesting, isn’t it?).

    So all sort of suspicions found their way into Evan Chandler’s head long before Rothman came into his life. Who planted those ideas into his unstable mind is still a question, but everything is pointing into one direction – that of Victor Gutierrez who said it himself that he was making rounds of all boys (and parents) who were friends of Michael Jackson. So why he would he suddenly bypass Jordan Chandler’s home would be totally inconceivable.

    Like

  53. TatumMarie permalink
    May 24, 2011 8:48 pm

    @vindicatemj
    Still, the documents Michael’s team (the genuine defense) filed in 2005 stated that the settlement was against Michael’s wishes and those of his legal team. Are there any documentation from that particular time showing otherwise? Also, in the FBI files Johnnie Cochran was reporting the extortion to the authorities. As far as Lisa Marie and Liz Taylor – they probably thought it would be better for his health to resolve the case, sadly but I agree Feldman did twist Michael’s arms.

    Like

  54. TatumMarie permalink
    May 24, 2011 8:34 pm

    @Susie
    This conversation took place after Evan met Rothman. Dave doesn’t sound like he knows what Evan is talking about through the majority of it. Dave asked Evan a no-holds-barred question, out of confusion (Line #18 – 19) where Evan says he doesn’t even know. Then another, out of curiosity when asking what Michael had done. Evan at that point claims that Michael broke up his family.

    If it’s that easy for VG to spread rumors about Michael, why not someone who represented a client who made accusations of child-molestation, right before?

    I am not comfortable with assuming a liar (VG) is being truthful and basing a whole concept on it. Evan may have been venting about Michael and Jordan – then Rothman could have said: You don’t have any suspicions about impropriety?
    I will read the article that was posted here- but for some reason I feel my thoughts will not change.

    Like

  55. Suzy permalink
    May 24, 2011 7:52 pm

    Michael to Diane Sawyer:

    “I talked to my lawyers and I said, Can you guarantee me that justice will prevail? and they said, Michael we cannot guarantee you that a judge or a jury will do anything. And with that I was like catatonic. I was outraged…”

    “Totally outraged. So what I said…I have got to do something to get out from under this nightmare. All these lies and all these people coming forth to get paid and all these tabloid shows, just lies, lies, lies. So what I did – we got together again with my advisors and they advised me, it was hands down, a unanimous decision – resolve the case. This could be something that could go on for seven years.”

    And we know who those advisers were – starting with Larry Feldman’s buddy, Johnnie Cochran….

    Like

  56. May 24, 2011 7:34 pm

    “we know the insurance company paid it against his wishes”

    Tatum, I want to be absolutely frank with you and everybody else – recently I’ve heard information that Michael’s lawyers actually asked the insurance company to pay and the company met the request after looking into the case. But even if it is true this does not make any difference to us.

    It is a very well-known fact that the new team of Michael’s lawyers (when Johnnie Cochran joined it) immediately set to discussing terms of the settlement instead of focusing on Michael’s defense. So by the time they advised him to settle they must have already had that insurance card in their pocket – I mean the argument that Michael would not even have to pay if he agreed to settle and this was probably the last straw which finally broke his resistance to it.

    This slightly new angle to the same news does not change anything at all. Michael didn’t want to settle – people don’t go that long way and suffer humiliation for months and then pay after so much torture – no, it is a sign that they want justice from the very start, otherwise they wouldn’t have gone that far.

    Michael didn’t want to surrender to his accusers, only the situation he found himself in was almost hopeless. There was no lawyer like Thomas Mesereau beside him and those he had were clearly outwitted by brilliant but dishonest Larry Feldman. He twisted Michael’s arms for so long that all people around him began thinking in favor of a settlement – Lisa Marie, Lyz Taylor, Michael’s family, his lawyers…

    If Michael had wanted to settle he would have done it before the whole circus started. In fact if his lawyers had been more persistent the case could have fallen apart on its own without any settlement as none of the Chandlers wanted to testify in court.

    I’ve found an article from Vanify fair which says that Jordan was TERRIFIED of testifying even in 2005, so how much more terrified he and his father should have been of testifying in 1993?

    The article tells a lot of lies of course (the sum of the settlement was $15,3mln. and not 25 as they say) but the fact that Jordan was “terrified” is very interesting – what was he terrified of, I wonder? Probably justice?

    Vanity Fair – Jackson Accuser Jordan Chandler Terrified About Testifying
    01 February 2004 10:18

    The VANITY FAIR journalist who broke the news about MICHAEL JACKSON’s secret addiction to painkillers last week (ends30JAN04) now claims the pop star’s former accuser JORDY CHANDLER is terrified of being called to testify against his old pal.

    MAUREEN ORTH has spoken extensively with Chandler’s family for an expose on Jackson in the upcoming March (04) issue of Vanity Fair and she fears the one-time accuser, now a 23-year-old student, will never recover from his links to the THRILLER singer.
    Chandler and his immediate family reportedly received $25 million (GBP11.8 million) in an out-of-court settlement back in 1993 when the then 13-year-old Jordy alleged he had been molested by Jackson.

    Orth admits she tried and failed to interview Chandler directly, but did meet him and spoke extensively with his uncle.

    She says, “Jordy Chandler’s life has been completely broken by his association with Michael Jackson.
    “He went to college, he manages his own money. He’s a very attractive, bright kid but I don’t think he really is able to have a normal life. He can’t go anywhere without being identified as the Michael Jackson boy.
    “People want to know all about Michael and how much money did he get.”

    Orth claims Santa Barbara, California, District Attorney TOM SNEDDON, who is leading the prosecution against Jackson in a new round of child molestation charges, has already approached Chandler and asked him to testify against Jackson.
    She adds, “His uncle says Jordy should come testify because it would be the final nail in Michael’s coffin and Jordy would be a hero.”

    http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/story/jackson-accuser-jordan-chandler-terrified-about-testifying

    What a paradox! Not only Jordan Chandler didn’t come to testify in 2005 but Ray Chandler refused to be a “hero” either and thus drove the final nail into his own coffin with his own hands.

    Like

  57. Suzy permalink
    May 24, 2011 7:21 pm

    @ Tatum

    “What if he initially was trying to sue Michael or get the family’s attention by what he alleged on the taped conversation – that Michael broke up his family?”

    If I remember correctly there is talk about molestation on that tape. Evan says he has no idea if there is something between Michael and Jordan. Yes, here it is:

    14 MR. CHANDLER: Dave, Jordy’s — I

    15 believe that Jordy’s already irreparably harmed.

    16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

    17 MR. CHANDLER: That’s my true belief.

    18 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think

    19 that he’s fucking him?

    20 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t know. I have no

    21 idea.

    22 MR. SCHWARTZ: But harmed in — in just

    23 been spoiled?

    24 MR. CHANDLER: No.

    25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Just tell me —

    156

    1 MR. CHANDLER: You know, you gotta

    2 forgive me for one thing, but I have been told by

    3 my lawyer that if I say one thing to anybody —

    4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Okay.

    5 MR. CHANDLER: — don’t bother calling

    6 him again. He said this case is so open [tape

    7 irregularity] “You open your mouth and you blow

    8 it,” he said, “just don’t come back to me.”

    Now, here Rothman is already in the picture, of course, but so is the talk about molestation (though, strangely enough, Evan doesn’t seem to care much). Whether the idea in Evan’s head preceded Evan meeting Rothman or not, we don’t know from this conversation.

    The latest article that was written by MOA and Helena is very interesting: https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2011/05/23/5900/

    You can see that NAMBLA has been following and accusing Michael of being “one of them” since way before the 1993 allegations! In that article there is a quote that makes innuendo about him and a boy, from a 1987 NAMBLA bulletin! Way before the Chandlers! So is it really so far-fetched that it all started with a p-le plot way before 1993? I don’t think so. It’s not having trouble with seeing past a certain view. It’s considering ALL information that we have. To me it being a p-le plot and VG pulling the strings makes a lot of sense.

    When I say VG pulls the strings I don’t mean he was sitting down with Evan working out the full plan and full extortion and conspire against Michael (that was Rothman’s part, you are right about that). I think VG is a lot more slick than that. What I think is that he talked to him and made some deliberate remarks with lies those triggered suspicion in Evan’s mind. It’s enough if he just said: “I see your handsome son is hanging out with Jackson. I don’t know if you know, but there are rumours about him being a p-le.” If VG “only” did this it’s perfectly enough for a sick mind like Evan’s! Do I have evidence for this particular conversation ever happening? No. Like we don’t have evidence for Rothman telling Evan: “OK, you only came here to sue Michael for breaking up your family, but what about suing him for molesting your son? That would be a lot better.”

    However now we have evidence that p-les have been after Michael long before 1993 and this actually corroborates with the VG theory.

    Like

  58. TatumMarie permalink
    May 24, 2011 6:03 pm

    @susie

    Sign…. I wasn’t trying to be rude. My point was that you had a certain view and you’re having trouble seeing past it. Bringing out that Rothman was part of the extortion shows that it’s not far-fetched to believe he’s the mastermind behind launching the allegations in general.

    The fact that there is no evidence that Evan suspected molestation before meeting Rothman is not speculation. What if he initially was trying to sue Michael or get the family’s attention by what he alleged on the taped conversation – that Michael broke up his family?

    Like

  59. TatumMarie permalink
    May 24, 2011 5:34 pm

    @lynande51

    I agree. In the Diane Sawyer interview Michael said that his lawyers advised him to resolve the case but that only involved resolving the exortion charges he filed against the family. Some people take that statement to mean he paid the settlement money, but we know the insurance company paid it against his wishes.

    Like

  60. lynande51 permalink
    May 24, 2011 5:07 am

    Actually they must have been getting a little nervous about the charges of extortion because if you read the settlement it says that Michael Jackson withdrawns any claims against the Chandlers too. In the speech that was agreed upon by both parties and the lawyers gave when the settlement was signed Johnny Cochran says that Michael Jackson publicly withdraws the extortion charges.

    Like

  61. Suzy permalink
    May 24, 2011 4:18 am

    @ Tatum

    Noone disputed Rothman’s role in the extortion. You act like that’s the point we were talking about when it’s not. The point is when and how did it FIRST occur in Evan’s mind to accuse MJ of child molestation or to suspcet he is m-ing his son? Whose idea was it? Was it his own or somebody else planted those thoughts in his mind? That’s what we are talking about. And we BOTH only can speculate about that. Whether your speculation carries more weight? Of course, you would feel so, otherwise you would not hold that opinion. But a speculation is just a speculation in both cases.

    (And there’s no need to be rude: “I’m sorry for assuming you would be able to reason outside of a pre-conceived notion.” I have an opinion and you have one. That is fine. I’m not making sarcastic notes about your abilities of reasoning so please you too refrain from personal attacks. Thanks.)

    Like

  62. TatumMarie permalink
    May 24, 2011 12:20 am

    Victor provided details, Rothman provided allegations.

    Like

  63. TatumMarie permalink
    May 24, 2011 12:16 am

    There were extortion charges but a mock extortion investigation. If the authorities would’ve just put a quarter of the research on Michael toward Evan and Rothman, they both would’ve been behind bars.

    Like

  64. lynande51 permalink
    May 23, 2011 11:32 pm

    The reason that Robert Shaprio was in the “meeting” with Feldman, June and Evan was because he was Rothmans attorney in case he had needed defending in a criminal case against extortion. Evan had already hired Richard Hirsch to defend him against the charge of extortion. Rothman had already had to resign from representing Evan in a legal suit because Michael’s side had filed extortion charges against them. VG was definitely in the house early on it’s apparent in the photos he has in his books.I think he helped feed the seed so to speak and then Evan went with Rothman who fed the greed and helped him plan how to do it. He had to do it without reporting it himself which he could have because he is a Dentist which makes him a mandated reporter. Without civil or criminal liability a mandated reporter can report a suspicion of abuse. He needed the threat to hold over MJ’s head to make any money. If he had just reported it no one would have known, they would have found no basis to his allegations and th ecase would have been over but he would never have gotten any money.

    Like

  65. TatumMarie permalink
    May 23, 2011 8:53 pm

    @Suzy
    I’m sorry for assuming you would be able to reason outside of a pre-conceived notion. If there would have been an extortion investigation and Chandler would have been in jeopardy of going to prison I’m sure he wouldn’t have had a problem throwing Rothman under the bus in court. Rothman told Evan what to do step by step, and was still guiding him after he had been dismissed as his lawyer.

    In suspected child molestation – there is no manipulative process. I never said Rothman initiated the allegations as an edict; my words were that “I suspect” and “it appears that way”. We are both harvesting on suspicions but mine carries more weight than yours and is shared by someone who was close to the case. Unlike VG, Rothman had a client right before Evan who accused someone of child molestation to get custody.

    Like

  66. Suzy permalink
    May 23, 2011 3:56 am

    @ Tatum

    “it’s about what Evan admitted in court documents”

    vs.

    “Also, most of your claims are Evan’s version of the story.”

    So is what I say Evan’s version or it’s to contrary of what he said?
    Where does Evan admit in court documents that Barry Rothman initiated the story?

    Your point has not been “proven”. Your point is that the allegations were initiated by Rothman.

    You think Barry Rothman initiating it all is more plausible than Victor Gutierrez initiating it. That’s OK, that’s your opinion, but I don’t think it’s any less speculative than the VG theory. Rothman was a part of it as an attorney, noone disputes that. We know that, as well as the fact he was an evil SOB as Evan described him. But what you claim is that he initiated it. There’s no more proof for it than for VG initiating it.

    Like

  67. TatumMarie permalink
    May 23, 2011 2:43 am

    Also, most of your claims are Evan’s version of the story.

    Like

  68. TatumMarie permalink
    May 23, 2011 2:42 am

    Is that how you think it happened?
    My point has been proven more than once. It’s not about what

    I THINK HAPPENED; it’s about what Evan admitted in court documents. Some things that we repeat over and over again were only alleged to create tabloid stories. The sodium amytal theory is another lie.

    Like

  69. TatumMarie permalink
    May 23, 2011 2:34 am

    The last time I checked, Raymond Chandler nor VG were involved in the settlement agreement. Everything you listed below would not be “direct evidence.” You cannot prove that VG was in the mix before 1993.

    Like

  70. Suzy permalink
    May 22, 2011 6:24 pm

    @ Tatum

    It’s a bit more than speculation as we have the interviews and articles on VG’s past. You can say that EVERYTHING he has ever said is a lie and what Ray Chandler said about that first meeting between Michael and Evan is a lie too. It’s possible that EVERY single thing that has come out of these people’s mouth is indeed a lie. Though effective lies are usually mixed with truth.

    To claim that it was initiated by Rothman is not any less of a speculation than to say that it was initiated by Gutierrez. Indeed we have Ray Chandler claiming that Even had suspicions and confronted Michael before he met Rothman. You say that it’s a lie, but how do you know? It’s just your speculation that Ray Chandler is lying about it.

    Of course, Rothman was a major player after Evan contacted him, but why do you think he contacted him in the first place? They just happened to meet and Rothman told Evan: “hey, why don’t you accuse Michael Jackson of child molestation?” Is that how you think it happened? And how is that less speculative than to consider VG’s role when every player in this case was somehow connected with him?

    Like

  71. TatumMarie permalink
    May 22, 2011 5:46 pm

    Did VG and Evan get with Michael’s team and demand 20 million dollars? Was it VG who obtained the suspicions from the therapist? Who was Evan referring to on the taped conversation as a mean SOB, VG?

    Yet, the idea that Rothman initiated the claims is personal opinion? I think not. There is no evidence of Evan having suspicions before he met Rothman, even in his declaration of facts. There is no evidence of VG being involved before 1993.

    We tell the haters all day long to do their research,go by the facts and not speculation — Why should we be any different?

    Like

  72. Suzy permalink
    May 22, 2011 4:44 am

    @ Tatum

    That it was initiated by Rothman is just a personal conclusion as well.

    Like

  73. TatumMarie permalink
    May 21, 2011 9:26 pm

    Short and sweet, Rothman initiated the claims – VG fueled the media and added the false details to the claims. Since Evan is so easily manipulated by VG, how much more so could he have been by Rothman? Evan Chandler is obviously a puppet who cheated the settlement many times by used horrible writers like VG.

    I can’t give VG the benefit of the doubt and guess that the NAMBLA just picked someone randomly because that thinking seems far fetched and only a personal conclusion; not backed up by any strong evidence. Even in the FBI files, there was nothing before 1993.

    Like

  74. Suzy permalink
    May 21, 2011 6:42 pm

    @ Tatum

    I personally think VG was the source of it. I used to think like you that it all started in 1993. Now I think it started in 1986.

    It has nothing to do with “reasons to be suspicious”. Gutierrez didn’t have suspicions, he simply wanted to create a p-le image for Michael. He wasn’t writing a book because he had anything, he was writing a book because NAMBLA wanted to make Michael their poster boy in their fight for “social acceptance”. In that German interview I translated VG said NAMBLA looked at Michael “as a hope for social acceptance”. In 1986! Then in his book he thanks NAMBLA in the foreword.

    Do you think he made up that story about his visit to NAMBLA? I don’t think so. I don’t think anybody would make that up if it wasn’t true. Actually, in the English speaking media he was very cautious about it and never revealed it was NAMBLA. He only spoke about a “secret organization”. It’s that Tageszeitung interview where he was unusually open (and Tageszeitung has a history of supporting p-les!) and he revealed it was NAMBLA.

    Of course, details of the story changed depending on who he gave the interview to. Once he was there as a reporter, at other times as a spy for the police. That’s how we know he is not honest about the REASON why he was there. Because he was there as a member. But the fact he was there was mentioned in several of his interviews. And he always said that’s where his “investigation” started. But it wasn’t an investigation. It was the project of creating a p-le image for Michael so that then p-les can use him as their poster boy (like we see with Carl Toms book).

    They might have thought Michael was one of them, but that was because their mind is twisted. When they see a little boy all they can think of is sex and they can’t imagine that other people’s minds are wired differently. In fact there was this article here on VindicateMJ about those p-le “professors” who recommended Carl Toms’ book. One of those professors claimed in an article that everybody is a repressed p-le! So this is how their twisted mind works. It has nothing to do with Michael or with reasons to be suspicious of him. It’s just the way they think, especially if they see an adult who has child friends. It’s their own dirty mind.

    In Michael’s FBI files we read that this author (he is not named there, but I’m sure it’s VG) claimed that the FBI investigated Michael for molesting two Mexican boys but it was swept under the carpet because Michael was about to get honored by Ronald Raegen in the White House. The FBI files of Michael stated that the FBI checked their own archives and such investigation never happened. It was an outrageous lie typical of VG. That’s why I think the book author was him. Also because he was interviewed by the police in 1993. Because of this I think he indeed might have been working on a book before 1993. Full of lies, of course.

    But I emphasize once again: Gutierrez didn’t have anything on Michael between 1986 and 1993 (nor later, of course), he was creating the story! Unsuccessfully until he met Evan, this bipolar guy whom he could manipulate.

    You are right about Ray Chandler too, that we have to take everything he says with a pinch of salt. However Evan first had suspicions and then turned to Rothman. Where did those suspicions come from? In my opinion from VG.

    Another sign of VG’s involvement is that the Chandlers’ story was always very odd. They were talking about it almost as if Jordan enjoyed to be molested as if it wasn’t really a big deal. Jordan himself too didn’t seem upset in his interview with Dr. Gardner. He said he started to realize it was wrong when his father told him that…. Their portrayal of a molestation victim is totally twisted in my opinion. Something like how a p-le would think of it. And that’s because it was VG who trained them in my opinion.

    Like

  75. TatumMarie permalink
    May 21, 2011 5:01 pm

    VG had everything to do with the torturing and persecution of Michael but he was not the source of it and that’s what I was referring to. We don’t have anything concrete on VG when it comes to the original allegations. Usually everything concerning him and the others who are involved circulates from 1993 which proves my point. No one was involved or questioned the nature of Michael’s relationships with children until the Chandler accusations that were fueled by Rothman.

    Once Michael was accused, a domino affect was set in motion. The authorities, old employees and friends of the Chandlers were putting out false information about him(source was Guiterrez) . It doesn’t sound reasonable to me to give Guiterrez the benefit to say that he had suspicions about Michael before anyone had a reason to be suspicious. We know for a fact that NO ONE thought twice about Michael and children until 1993.

    In “All The Glitters” I can trust the documents (some of them) but as far as the author speaking about conversations that took place according to Evan, I don’t pay attention to because at the end of the day I have to go by documented factual information. VG is a pedophile and Michael isn’t – no connection there. Its obvious he was obsessed with Michael before the allegations but so were the ex-employees who lied for money.

    We only have proof of everything after 1993 and not before. I can’t go by VG’s words alone – he’s not trust worthy nor did he testify in court.

    Like

  76. Suzy permalink
    May 21, 2011 7:01 am

    @ Tatum

    It’s true that sometimes it’s difficult to tell what part of what VG is saying is true and what isn’t.

    However he was among the first to be interviewed by the police in 1993. Why? What did he have to do with anything? He said he was working on a book regarding Michael’s “relationship with children” for years at the time. Michael’s FBI files mention a book author who was writing a book about the subject. I think that’s Gutierrez and that’s why he was interviewed.

    Why was he writing a book about the subject when noone has ever accused Michael of anything yet? How is that connected to his visit at NAMBLA in 1986? I very much see a connection there.

    According to All that Glitters the very first time Evan met Michael he confronted him with the question: “Are you f***ing my son in the ass?” Where did he get that idea from? He didn’t know Michael and his son never complained about anything yet at the time. And they haven’t hired Rothman yet. I personally think Gutierrez was already in his ears. Evan was a sick man, he was bipolar. So Gutierrez finally got his man whom he could manipulate.

    Yeah, Rotham later did his piece, but I don’t think it originated from him. I think it was Gutierrez.

    Also, everything in both cases can be traced back to VG. It’s simply amazing to me that noone in the media the has ever investigated this angle when this is the key in my opinion!

    When you read the prosecution’s stories and theories, what do you see? Gutierrez’s stories and theories! He influenced the prosecution. He influenced most prosecution witnesses! Ralph Chacon admitted on the stand that he and his two buddies, Adrian McManus and Kassim Abdool were in connection with Gutierrez. Blanca and Jason Francia were too. The Chandlers were too. I know VG is a liar, but is it so difficult to believe then that he was also in connection with other people in Michael’s environment like he claims? With Orietta Murdock. With the Chandlers’ maid. We also know he was in connection with Diane Dimond and with Martin Bashir.

    He was pulling the strings, I’m very convinced of it by now.

    Like

  77. TatumMarie permalink
    May 21, 2011 4:48 am

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Gutierrez just said that to make his stories seem more convincing.

    Like

  78. TatumMarie permalink
    May 21, 2011 4:45 am

    Hypothetically, if Gutierrez was telling the truth about his rounds, there’s nothing concrete to come to the conclusion that he put the thought in Evan’s mind. Rothman initially called the psychiatrist and was partially behind the extortion etc.

    By Gutierrez’s own admission Obviously, Gutierrez is not a trustworthy person and a pedophile, himself. The truth is that no one had any suspicions or questioned Michael’s relationship with children until the Chandler case. I blame Gutierrez for the media addition but as far as the actual allegations it’s a stretch to say that.

    Like

  79. May 20, 2011 7:58 pm

    “Evan didn’t know Guitterrez before he met Rothman, did he?”

    Tatum, Gutierrez was making rounds of all boys and their parents who were in Michael’s vicinity for several years before the 1993 allegations (he said so himself to the GQ magazine correspondent – his ‘investigation’ started in 1986) so it is quite likely that he did know the Chandlers well before that.

    He was collecting the material for his book and if you read it you’ll see that Gutierrez didn’t really interview the people he met – no, he spread lies about Michael by telling his own stories about him. You can imagine what effect those stories could produce on a suspicious guy like Evan Chandler. By Gutierrez’s own admission “his interest was reawakened” when he saw Michael appearing with Jordan Chandler at various media events – like the World Music Awards in Monaco for example (which was at the beginning of May). He made friends with Norma Salinas, a Mexican caretaker in the Chandlers’ home and from then on it was just one step to get to Evan Chandler.

    I am sure that Rothman came into Evan Chandler’s life much later and was secondary to Victor Gutierrez. It is Gutierrez who is at the bottom of all this.

    Like

  80. TatumMarie permalink
    May 20, 2011 2:07 am

    @vindicatemj
    Rothman had a deceitful history and one of his clients cases involved an accusation of child-molestation. Looks like Rothman started it and Guitterez fueled it. Evan didn’t know Guitterrez before he met Rothman, did he?

    Like

  81. May 19, 2011 9:16 pm

    “I was stunned by vindicatemj post June 22 2010;Evan was the author of all books,writing as Ray Chandler and Victor Guitirrez”

    Kaarin, it was most probably a supposition on my part in the beginning of the research. I’m sure that Evan Chandler was a source for both books (Victor Gutierrez’s and Ray Chandler’s) and evidently co-authored the book with his brother or contributed a lot to it.

    As regards Gutierrez the man didn’t speak English well enough – at least then – and evidently wrote his book in Spanish, so it could be just a translation.

    Gutierrez used Evan’s words and ideas and was most probably the one who planted those suspicions into Evan’s unstable mind and fanned them into a fire there. Being a psychiatric case Evan didn’t really need much – a hint here and there would do the job for him.

    What I am absolutely sure of is that several articles quoted by haters were indeed written by Evan Chandler because a “personal streak” is felt there in every page – the author sounds offended that Evan was accused of extortion and justifies himself again and again though no one is really asking him to do that. He doesn’t notice that his tremendous and excessive focus on that point gives away the identity of the author as only Evan Chandler could be talking like that.

    As regards our little investigation it is important to remember that it is done on-line and its progress is not always regular – some things may be reconsidered with time, some new circumstances may be found which make you look at the whole picture differently. For example, now that we’ve read Gutierrez’s book and see that he had his own agenda, and know that at a certain point in time the Chandlers and VG went apart (Ray Chandler even called him a “sleazebag”) I wouldn’t say that Evan Chandler wrote the book for Gutierrez. He certainly helped him as he provided him with the photos, but Gutierrez’s style is inimitable as there is a definite “man-boy-love” shade to it which you can feel only if you read it.

    The book was made available to us only recently and the way Gutierrez reveals his delusions there leaves no doubt (to me) that we are dealing with something much more sinister than a usual hater. In fact Gutierrez is not even a hater of Michael – for example, after telling all those lies about him in Peretti’s documentary and calling Michael a p. he justifies ped-lia as a phenomenon saying calmly, “Who knows, maybe in hundred years it will be a norm in the society?” . He isn’t outraged, he isn’t horrified, he isn’t concerned – no, he is quite calm and sounds somewhat hopeful that the day “when it is accepted” will eventually come (Gob forbid it!).

    In fact I’ve heard Gutierrez express this idea twice – first in an article and then in Peretti’s documentary, and hearing him say it again made me realize the possible meaning of this repetition. I suddenly remembered where I had heard the idea before – the only other sources where I saw it had a connection to the NAMBLA writings. Hoping that “this day will come” is exactly their style.

    As to Evan Chandler I think he did not have any such inclinations. He was violent, abusive, greedy, jealous, suspicious, paranoid and probably mentally ill – but he was definitely not like Victor Gutierrez.

    Like

  82. TatumMarie permalink
    May 19, 2011 8:33 pm

    It doesn’t seem like Jordan or Evan had a diary. Geraldine Hughes brought this out in her book but Evan Chandlers declaration of facts -where he was supposed to place his personal observances of why he was making the claims against Michael;only put something along the lines of “My son is under 18” – that was it guys.

    Looks like everything in the books by Dimond,Gutierrez and all the other haters about spooning and diaries are things that weren’t just twisted but didn’t happen period. All the media repeats is Evan’s nasty perverted story.

    As Michael put it on Diane Sawyer: All these lies, all these people coming forward to get paid and these tabloid shows. Lies! Lies! Lies! Lies!

    Like

  83. Suzy permalink
    May 19, 2011 4:39 pm

    @ kaarin22

    “Does anyone know if Jordan´s diary actually and concretely ever existed?”

    No, it didn’t exist. The Chandlers themselves said it didn’t exist and that Gutierrez made it up.

    Like

  84. May 19, 2011 4:09 pm

    To elaborate a bit on previous post:I read that Guitirrez hardly knew English at the time of writing “his” book.I have not read it but read about it and also seen several out takes.It has been said that it was very good linguistically.
    Does anyone know if Jordan´s diary actually and concretely ever existed? I have a hard time believing that he would have written a diary about sexual goings on with MJ, nor with anybody else.
    It is no surprise that Evan was not called as a witness.It would be interesting to know how that played out.A guess; He claimed illness prevented him,he did also have Gauchers disease.All he really needed was a doctors note,probably no dg was needed to get himself off if he was requested.

    Like

  85. May 19, 2011 3:43 pm

    All the trouble,allegations,trials,possible periodic drugabuse,and his
    final murder started with Evan Chandler,his mental illness and grandiouse ambitions bordering on delusions.
    I was stunned by vindicatemj post June 22 2010;Evan was the author of all books,writing as Ray Chandler and Victor Guitirrez.Soon there would be plenty willing accomplices from the tabloids to spread the story worlwide and plant the idea MJ=CM in peoples minds.It has grown like a weed.Only a few years before Evan entered the scene the whole country had been swept in mass hysteria over the Mc Martin Preschool case.–I will return to Evans mental state and illness in a later post,and try to explain how it was pivotal in setting and causing what happened then and later.Bashir further cemented these beliefs.
    I can only hope that he at some point realizes what he has done.

    Like

  86. TatumMarie permalink
    May 17, 2011 8:30 pm

    We don’t know all of Harvey Levins sources. I may get hired in just to find out.🙂

    Like

  87. Cassie permalink
    May 17, 2011 8:00 pm

    Harvey Levin’s source is Victor Gutierrez who is obviously attracted to Jordan and wishes he is gay. Remember on his world of wonder site, he said that he offered Jordan a job there – that was a lie. Jordan has never spoken to any of these journalists about 1993 – Maureen Orth and Diane Dimond admitted to this.

    Also uncle Ray alluded to the fact that Jordan is gay but this was because he had an agenda.
    Jordan does not speak to his father’s side of the family and was pretty pissed at his uncle for that assertion.

    Like

  88. J. Mason, New York, NY permalink
    May 17, 2011 7:56 pm

    No Cassie, I don’t know Chandler personally but I do know one or two responsible and respected journalists (not tabloid reporters) for whom his whereabouts remain an open assignment, and who would handle the matter with the delicacy required. We can hope for good results.

    Like

  89. TatumMarie permalink
    May 17, 2011 7:39 pm

    I’m just writing Harvey’s claims.

    Like

  90. Cassie permalink
    May 17, 2011 7:36 pm

    J.Mason, New York, NY

    I thought, because of some of your comments, that you might of known him.

    Like

  91. J. Mason, New York, NY permalink
    May 17, 2011 7:23 pm

    Harvey Levin-TMZ, while extremely popular and much visited, don’t rank with me as trustworthy sources — but that’s just my view. Chandler’s last known address is not NY.

    Like

  92. TatumMarie permalink
    May 17, 2011 7:17 pm

    @Cassie
    A few months ago Harvey Levin from TMZ gave an update on Jordan’s status. Don’t quote me but I remember Harvey saying Jordan was located in NY, in the music business and that it is his understanding that Jordan was an upright guy. This took place during a TMZ Live segment so if anyone knows, it would be Harvey Levin.

    Like

  93. J. Mason, New York, NY permalink
    May 17, 2011 7:11 pm

    To Cassie:

    Chandler has ad several addresses over time as you may know. Let’s say the search for him continues sub rosa.

    Like

  94. TatumMarie permalink
    May 17, 2011 7:11 pm

    @J. Mason, New York, NY
    The confidentiality agreement does not prevent Jordan Chandler from coming forward to TELL THE TRUTH!

    No, it just forbids him from speaking publicly about what happened in the 1993 case. In other words – Yes, it does.

    The only place Jordan was allowed to speak publicly about it was the 2005 trial and he ran away.

    Like

  95. TatumMarie permalink
    May 17, 2011 7:05 pm

    @vindicatemj
    I believe VG is responsible for the media domino affect of what happened to Michael. However, I feel Rothman and Evan are responsible for the allegations. While the authorities were pursuing Michael, they should have been pursuing the real pedophiles like VG.

    Like

  96. TatumMarie permalink
    May 17, 2011 7:04 pm

    @gigi
    I agree, in Oprah’s case she is too distraught by her own child-hood experiences to see the case scenario in any other light. You also help drive another point I made about Jordan. Throw out the confidentiality agreement, would the media allow Jordan to tell the world that they were wrong?

    Like

  97. Cassie permalink
    May 17, 2011 5:02 pm

    J. Mason, New York, NY

    Do you know Jordan Chandler or know someone who knows him?

    Like

  98. J. Mason, New York, NY permalink
    May 17, 2011 3:04 pm

    The confidentiality agreement does not prevent Jordan Chandler from coming forward to TELL THE TRUTH! You recall that Sneddon wanted him as a prosecution witness in the 2003 case, but he refused and fled. Mesereau was prepared to bring witnesses forward to refute any testimony Chandler was expected to give relative to the 1993 accusations. Under oath in a criminal court trial, Jordan would have to TELL THE TRUTH or lie and commit purjury. He avoided that by refusing to testify and running away.

    Like

  99. May 17, 2011 10:54 am

    “I wish someone like Aphrodite Jones or Mary A. Fischer would take a deeper look into the Victor Gutierrez connection. That’s a major key to understanding everything what happened to Michael and why. It’s such a huge story BTW and not just because of Michael. I wish someone would bring it to the attention of the public. To expose the modus operandi of p-les in the media, their tricks, their lies, their lobbies, their attempts to break down the resistance of the public etc.”

    Suzy, I fully agree that Victor Gutierrez is a major key to everything that happened to Michael. VG always complained (and is still complaining) that everyone used his “findings” but no one paid him the credit he deserved. Thus he is saying to us himself that his lies and innuendoes laid the basis for everything Diane Dimond, Maureen Orth, Andersen and the media wrote and this is indeed so, as all their outrageous lies may be easily traced back to Victor Gutierrez.

    I wonder what they will say when they learn that VG is a very shady character himself and is suspected of maitaining contacts with NAMBLA.

    Your comment is prompting me to hurry up with a few things about VG and his possible associates. Though the subject is unpleasant I’m afraid we will have to look into all that. Hopefully one day someone in the media will pick it up. It is too important to be shrugged off – FOR ALL OF US.

    Like

  100. Suzy permalink
    May 17, 2011 6:03 am

    @ TatumMarie

    “and the idea of molestation was planted in his head by Rothman”

    Maybe by Rothman too. But I think by Victor Gutierrez in the first place.

    As for the media, I wish someone like Aphrodite Jones or Mary A. Fischer would take a deeper look into the Victor Gutierrez connection. That’s a major key to understanding everything what happened to Michael and why. It’s such a huge story BTW and not just because of Michael. I wish someone would bring it to the attention of the public. To expose the modus operandi of p-les in the media, their tricks, their lies, their lobbies, their attempts to break down the resistance of the public etc.

    Like

  101. May 17, 2011 5:23 am

    Tatum,

    I know you were speaking hypothetically if JC approached Oprah. I honestly don’t think Oprah would be interested herself, never mind the producers. She’s an avid reader and could have researched things herself years ago. She’s in the media industry she had/has the access and had the platform to really present facts and truth regarding the cases. Specifically, during the time. She could have even reached out to Mesereau, got insight form the jurors right after the verdict. As a whole the media was dumbfounded by the Not Guilty verdicts, but they just swiftly went on to the next thing. Not providing the public an opportunity to truly understand the why’s of what happened in the courtroom. Unfortunately the opportunities as far as major media wasn’t/isn’t given.

    A part of me also thinks the reason why Oprah wouldn’t is maybe because of her own personal experience of abuse by cousin (?). If Jordan were to contact her and tell her what his been telling his inner circle that Michael never did anything to him. I don’t think she would want to believe him, cause she would still be holding on to the ingrained idea of guilty. I mean its completely evident in the MJ segments she did in 09/10 Even though all the facts in the world says Michael was innocent. I think that would scare a lot of the players in major media because they all would have to own up to the fact that they are completely wrong towards Michael.

    Like

  102. TatumMarie permalink
    May 17, 2011 4:32 am

    Well, my comment was toward the confidentiality agreement in general. I wasn’t making an excuse for Jordan. However, we shouldn’t say “Never” because Jordan told many people the truth- that‘s what sets him apart from the other accusers. He’s a coward but he’s not like Gavin Arviso – he can’t speak to the press and tell the truth. Maybe he didn’t testify in 2005 because of his father – he did assault him after Michael was acquitted. I was speaking in retrospect, Jordan’s father is no longer around, but the confidentiality agreement still exists. Hypothetically – if Jordan wanted to go on Oprah and clear Michael, Do you honestly think her producers would let him within 50 feet of her with the confidentiality agreement he signed?

    A legal agreement doesn’t change after 15 or 30 years . I think the point in previous comment was overlooked. A personal opinion doesn’t change the law, that document was put in place as protection for Jordan more so than Michael.

    Like

  103. ares permalink
    May 16, 2011 11:34 pm

    @Teva

    -It is my personal believe that Jordan Chandler will never come foward, confidentiality agreement or not. The man had the opportunity in 2005 to speak, or forever hold his peace with impunity-

    I agree with this. Jordan had his chance in 2005 to say if MJ had ever done something to him. For whatever reason he refused to do so then, so i believe that he will never confess anything publicly.

    Like

  104. Teva permalink
    May 16, 2011 11:26 pm

    Ps. I forgot to mention it has been 17 years, almost 2 decades since that confidentiality agreement was signed.

    Like

  105. Teva permalink
    May 16, 2011 11:23 pm

    “Maybe I need to be corrected but the only thing stopping Jordan from coming forward publicly is the confidentiality agreement, itself. He won’t be charged or fined because that wasn’t the terms from my understanding. A court waiver is a possibility, but there are others involved with the settlement. One is dead, thankfully, but I have no clue where June Chandler stands.” – TatumMarie

    It is my personal believe that Jordan Chandler will never come foward, confidentiality agreement or not. The man had the opportunity in 2005 to speak, or forever hold his peace with impunity, but he vehemently chose the latter. As for June Chandler she spoke already – it was the 2005 trial.

    Threat of subpeona, Michael’s death, his father’s death nothing broke Jordan’s silence. At this point it will take an act of God.

    Like

  106. TatumMarie permalink
    May 16, 2011 8:00 pm

    Maybe I need to be corrected but the only thing stopping Jordan from coming forward publicly is the confidentiality agreement, itself. He won’t be charged or fined because that wasn’t the terms from my understanding. A court waiver is a possibility, but there are others involved with the settlement. One is dead, thankfully, but I have no clue where June Chandler stands.

    Like

  107. visitor permalink
    May 16, 2011 7:18 pm

    @thetis7
    Your three part post is truly fantastic and so amazing.I really wish it is read by all the people out there. Can i suggest you something though ? Can you insert in your title the name of Michael’s and the word allegation or something like that. For example : The 1993 allegations made against Michael Jackson etc. The title “HIStory vs EVANstory: The 1993 allegations Part 1” is not indicative enough to the content of the text and i think the title is what attracts people to read a post.

    Like

  108. TatumMarie permalink
    May 15, 2011 5:17 pm

    Great article, girl! June’s testimony placed a lot of things in perspective. I never heard one thing that was inappropriate on Michael’s part and the only thing the media reported was the prosecutions hints and speculative theories. Based on the timeline, I suspect Evan went to the lawyer to get his family’s attention and the idea of molestation was planted in his head by Rothman.

    Evan admits on the tape that he’s been convinced that something bad is happening and also states: “I’m not saying anything bad about anybody, okay? I’ve got it all on paper.” . Rothman called the therapist to convince Evan that molestation was taking place. Evan already had a warped and disturbing mind anyway so it wasn’t hard to puppeteer him.

    The sodium amytal, I think this is something we have to set straight for the haters. The sodium amytal theory is apparently garbage because Jordan wouldn’t remember the truth in later years if he were given that drug. It could have easily been another lie that Evan rehearsed him to state.

    Like

  109. April 23, 2011 5:48 pm

    Good work being done here. I’m convinced that the portal to vindication of Michael Jackson is a thorough review and understanding of the 1993 allegations. The case was shrouded in secrecy and sloppily reported by tabloid proctologists more focused on smearing Jackson than investigating facts, motives, and opportunities of ALL the characters involved. As usual, the public was dooped — deliberately poisoned and manipulated toward false conclusions based on biased reporting. BRAVO to all who toil here.

    Like

  110. shelly permalink
    April 23, 2011 10:21 am

    @suzy

    My problem is I already tried to find that quote but the only thing I could find is the quote where he said he believe too many people have seen them, but he never said he saw them himself.

    Like

  111. Suzy permalink
    April 23, 2011 9:31 am

    I don’t know. The Veritas Project doesn’t say when and where he said that. I wonder if anybody knows here maybe. When you go to the VP and search for “Geraldo” you get to that part:

    https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/veritas-project/

    Like

  112. shelly permalink
    April 23, 2011 9:23 am

    @Suzy

    When did he say that?

    Like

  113. Suzy permalink
    April 23, 2011 9:16 am

    @ Shelly

    It’s in the Veritas Project:

    “- Authorities laughed and bragged about passing around pictures of Jackson’s genitalia, pictures that were taken during the 1993-94 investigation. This was done to embarrass Jackson. (These pictures were supposed to be sealed but are not. Even Geraldo Rivera admits that he has seen them)”

    Like

  114. shelly permalink
    April 23, 2011 9:06 am

    Do you have a link for that quote from Rivera.

    Like

  115. Suzy permalink
    April 23, 2011 4:19 am

    Also interesting to note that the journalist who claims to have seen not only the description but also the photos, has always been pro-Michael and always thought Michael was innocent. I’m talking about Geraldo Riveira.

    Like

  116. April 23, 2011 1:06 am

    “he will probably speak up only when we leave no stone unturned in his case and he finds himself cornered by all the evidence into admitting the truth.”

    AGREED – 100%

    Like

  117. lynande51 permalink
    April 22, 2011 9:52 pm

    @Suzy
    Exactly. Just fueling his gossip machine.How did he see the affadavit it has been sealed since June of 1994?? This is just one example of how some gossip columnists twist the truth when they think that no one cares or is paying attention to them.

    Like

  118. Suzy permalink
    April 22, 2011 8:04 pm

    “Harvey Levin was still saying in November of 2009 that he had seen the affadavit for the body search and he felt it was an accurate description.”

    How can he tell if it was accurate just by seeing the affadavit? The affadavit in itself won’t show if it was an accurate description or not. It’s just a description.

    Like

  119. lynande51 permalink
    April 22, 2011 5:06 pm

    @ Ares. It was never important to me but it was to the Chandlers.It was a point that the Chandlers/ Gutierrez stressed to show that Michael was “in love” with Jordan. According to them he stayed there so many times that Jordan could not give an accurate account of the number of times he was abused by Michael. It was just another way to twist the story in their favor because they never give an exact number of times that the abuse occured and an abuse victim of 13 could almost tell you exactly when and where they occured. No one came up with the number 30 until they did after the fact in their books. When you disect the story with the fact that Michael wasn’t even available to visit that many times it is just another one of their exagerations that is questionable.
    If you read Jordans Declaration he does not say how many times the abuse occured after the initial Monaco exchange. That was the only date that where he could give specifics of taking a bath together and then the masturbation and that he did after the sodium amytal was adminitered. He says that after that it occured whenever they were together which was never accurately stated in any legal document. It is funny that Diane Dimond and her fellow tabloid yucks like to spin things out of control. If Jordans original statement to the police was so detailed and so damaging to Michael why hasn’t anyone, anywhere ever seen it outside the legal and journallism world . You would think it would have been used as proof it were indeed as damaging as all gossip journalists would like you to believe.
    Harvey Levin was still saying in November of 2009 that he had seen the affadavit for the body search and he felt it was an accurate description. He has not brought up the description again since the autopsy revealed that Michael was not circumcised. They still try to spin the fact that Michael was intact like it didn’t matter but instead we know better.That is how the gossip ball bounces. Take one point and build on it so us crazy Michael Jackson fans have to spend our time writing factual articles to refute their garbage.

    Like

  120. ares permalink
    April 22, 2011 3:11 pm

    @lynande51

    Can i ask something because i really don’t get it. Why is it important if MJ stayed or not with the Chandlers in their house for 30 days?

    Like

  121. April 22, 2011 10:30 am

    “WE ALL will make the truth known…it’s only a matter of time”. – MJJJusticeProject

    I agree – it is only a matter of time. If all of us look into the 1993 case in full seriousness we will learn the truth even withouth Jordan Chandler speaking. It would be a completely routine thing for us to hear him finally tell the truth and just confirm what everyone knows by then.

    “The question is: Which noise will prevail – survival or conscience?” – J.Mason

    J.Mason, thank you for the wonderful comments. I am not sure that conscience will prevail over survival in Jordan’s case – he will probably speak up only when we leave no stone unturned in his case and he finds himself cornered by all the evidence into admitting the truth.

    Speaking about survival – seeing all those powerful forces used against Jackson in order to break him (media, prosecution, financial levers, etc.) there might be an element of fear in his behavior too. He should feel absolutely safe to be able to come out with the truth, so if the general public learns the truth without his help, it will be much easier for him to speak up.

    Like

  122. April 22, 2011 7:13 am

    “Here is also a thought I have on the 30 nights scenario. They say that Gary Hearn (owner of Michael’s limosine hire) confirmed 30 trips to the Chandler house in that period from Febuary through early July of 1993. The thing is with a hired limosine company a trip is one way. In other words it is one trip to go somewhere and another to go back. That might make it more believeable if you divide an overnight stay at Neverland/Junes House and back again by 2.”

    Lynette, possible. While you were describing 30 visits turning into 15 this way I visualized the scene of Michael arriving at June Chandler’s home on those days (June Chandler said in her testimony that he arrived by dinner time and all of them sat together to dinner in a family way).

    So he comes by a limousine in broad daylight with all the neighbors looking, discussing and being terribly impressed? If Michael wanted to keep it a secret he could have used a less conspicuous car and could have arrived in the dark of the night, in my opinion.

    It is clear he didn’t want to hide his visits to June Chandler and her children at all. Compare it with what the media made out of all this …

    Like

  123. J. Mason, New York, NY permalink
    April 22, 2011 12:17 am

    I think Michael Jackson rests heavilyon the hearts and minds of many — and with good reason. They did him wrong and so find it difficult to be at peace with his death. We see them metaphorically twitching and scratching themselves raw at the mention of his name — brazen attempts to justify their actions (or inactions). Oprah, for example, rejoiced recently at having ‘buried the hatchet’ with several living celebs with whom she had longstanding differences. Whoopi Goldberg did not comment on her personal disagreements with Oprah other than to say that they have ‘fundamentally different views of the world’. That statement is as sharply accurate as it is circumspect.

    All who contributed to Michael Jackson’s death in their own way — cheating, lying, stealing, extorting, mis-informing, mis-advising, mis-using their influence, talking too often and too much for attention, or staying silent when they should have spoken out — carry the albatross. At least those who work hard for his vindication, while bearing their sorrow, are spared the millstone of guilt.

    Like

  124. April 21, 2011 9:18 am

    Thank you for the comments

    Like

  125. Anna permalink
    April 21, 2011 4:38 am

    @J. Mason, New York, NY

    I agree with Cassie, that’s an excellent comment I feel pretty much the same way about Jordan Chandler. I find it doubtful that he will ever come forward for those reasons that you mentioned.

    Like

  126. Cassie permalink
    April 21, 2011 12:35 am

    –> J. Mason, New York, NY – I agree with everything you said.

    “Chandler was ‘damaged goods’ long before meeting Michael Jackson.”
    This really struck a cord with me, I have heard things about Jordan – that he was a victim of abuse by his own father – we already know he beat him up alot and obviously the events of 1993 was abuse in and of itself, but I wonder what other kind of abuse Evan subjected him to…

    Have heard that he was bullied in school and that Michael Jackson helped him focus his energy on school work and writing songs in order to block out the bullies. His grades were said to have improved. That is why he would rather spend time with Michael Jackson than go to school dances, etc.

    If only he had told the truth when Michael Jackson was alive.

    Like

  127. Lauren permalink
    April 20, 2011 11:40 pm

    This is the first time I have completely understood everything about
    what occured in 1993. Thank you very much for this.
    Great work.

    Like

  128. ares permalink
    April 20, 2011 11:02 pm

    @J. Mason, New York, NY

    I agree with everything you said,unfortunatelly

    Like

  129. April 20, 2011 10:58 pm

    Don’t forget that the Chandlers, even Ray Chandler, were asked to appear in 2005 by T Sneddon, as he needed to rely on past allegations to fluff up his charges that had no credible evidence, witnesses to support the Arviso’s claims.

    They refused. WHY? Many haters claim the Chandlers were ‘silenced’ but here was their chance to come under OATH and finally put this man that they accused of molesting a child in prison.

    #1 Ray fought his subpoena…even though he went all over interviewing for his All That Glitters book, claiming that it was the true accounting of the 93 story. When it came time to swear to tell the truth UNDER oath ….he refused.

    #2 As an outraged father Evan Chandler should have been chomping at the bit to put Michael in prison in 93 AND 05…. ..Why would he NOT help Sneddon ?

    #3 Jordan moved three times, and finally told the FBI he would fight a subpoena and said
    “I did my part” An interesting way to put it. He was scared to take the stand in 93 and fought against it taking the in 2005 … perhaps he thought he would forget his scripted lines or he knew Mesereaux had witnesses that would impeach his testimony once and for all.

    #4 June Chandler appeared and admitted she hadn’t spoken to Jordan for 11 years… she also cleared up the fiction of the 30 day stay …it suddenly became one or two weeks… everything else was a conveniently a little cloudy..

    In 93, the Chandler’s took the money because it was always about the money and refused to testify even though the civil settlement did NOT prevent them from doing so. They could have put the man who they believed molested their son in prison but did NOT. Why? So, in 2005 all the Chandlers had yet another chance to come and speak their “truth” to finally put this predatory man in prison so he couldn’t hurt any other children, but they did NOT. Why?

    A lack of moral responsibiliyy? NO
    A lack of social responsibility? NO

    it was a big load of bullshit, they knew they couldn’t withstand scrutiny.

    WE ALL will make the truth known…it’s only a matter of time.

    Like

  130. J. Mason, New York, NY permalink
    April 20, 2011 10:25 pm

    Why doesn’t Jordan Chandler come forward?

    He has many reasons not to. The money bought him physical ESCAPE from a diseased and dysfunctional family — though he probably still carries the psychological scars; FREEDOM from concern about material wants or the need to compete for a job in the marketplace and risk exposure; CHOICE to live a comfortable, if solitary, life under the radar and well away from media hounds certain to rake up the whole business again. Then there’s his FEAR for his personal safety — the uncertainty of his reception by the public, the fans and the family. On the one hand, these are all powerful reasons to remain silent. Money makes a big noise in the ear.

    On the other hand, there is conscience, morality, and ethics. These make a big noise in the heart, and are all powerful motivators to come forward. I don’t know if any of these things have taken root in Jordan Chandler man or boy. There are people in this world who live without them. Chandler was ‘damaged goods’ long before meeting Michael Jackson.

    The question is: Which noise will prevail – survival or conscience?

    I’m sure there was a time long ago when he wished Neverland would never end, and the dazzling friend who shared his life for a while would be around forever. Alas, in a gruesome, crooked sort of way, his own actions have granted his wish. Jordan Chandler Will Never Be Free of Michael Jackson.

    Like

  131. Irma permalink
    April 20, 2011 9:54 pm

    Again, Thank you so much for these three beautiful pieces! It’s about time that all the ignorants around the world will shut their mouth up and see the only truth that there is! Thank You!

    Like

  132. nan permalink
    April 20, 2011 6:29 pm

    Thank you fro doing this piece.The facts of this nightmare for Michael Jackson are out there but they are scattered all over the place. This piece makes it very clert exactly what happened and has the court transcripts , in Dr Katz own words as well to show the truth.. I was really struck by what a lackey Katz was for Feldman, when he actually testified he had spoken to Feldman in a phone conversation while waiting to give testimony and after giving testimony…unbelievable how blatant this stuff is when finally brought to the surface…Wonderful article…

    Like

  133. lynande51 permalink
    April 20, 2011 5:58 pm

    Here is also a thought I have on the 30 nights scenario. They say that Gary Hearn (owner of Michael’s limosine hire) confirmed 30 trips to the Chandler house in that period from Febuary through early July of 1993. The thing is with a hired limosine company a trip is one way. In other words it is one trip to go somewhere and another to go back. That is because they typically charge milage and if they have an oppotunity to take another hire they do. That might make it more believeable if you divide an overnight stay at Neverland/Junes House and back again by 2.My guess is that not a lot of people have hired a limosine to take them somewhere like from an airport to a hotel. I read my own invoices and write my own checks and have used this kind of transportation on more than one occasion. Thinking of it like that it makes sense that the Chandlers may have spent a total of 30 nights in the company of Michael Jackson.
    That is why in his Declaration Jordan does not specify how many times it happens he just says whenever they were together. If you think of how many times it was after Monaco they were actually only together one more time at Neverland, a few nights at Junes house and a possible 2-4 nights at Evan’s house he deliberately makes the story very vague doesn’t he.

    Like

  134. April 20, 2011 5:36 pm

    Wonderful work!! I think the reason why Jordan won’t come forward is because he’s afraid that he can be prosecuted for making false claims and that Michael’s fans will hunt him down.

    Like

  135. lynande51 permalink
    April 20, 2011 5:19 pm

    I should also add that if a mandatory reporter does not report a suspected abuse they can be fined and jailed for a gross misdemeanor in the state of California. Evan had made his first threat to Michael, June and Jordan, months in advance of sending Jordan to Dr. Abrams. He made his first demand for monetary compensation a full month before he sent him to see Dr. Abrams.He continued “negotiations” with Fields and Pellicano throughout that month.If the authorities found out that he suspected and did not report it he would be held criminally responsible of continuing to allow a suspected abuse if they played out the story he had in mind (written). That was what they wanted to avoid. Evan Chandler left no stone unturned in his plot.

    Like

  136. lynande51 permalink
    April 20, 2011 4:54 pm

    This was a wonderful read. It should be noted as well that if Evan Chandler had concerns regarding Michael he could have reported it himself instead of first hiring a lawyer and going to all of the trouble of finding a way for it to be reported to a third party without liability to the parent. Evan Chandler was a dentist and he, a mandatory reporter, could have reported even a suspicion to the authorities all on his own without liability. However if he reported the suspicions himself it would never have been made public. The reason he got a lawyer and they went this way is because he threatened Michael. He threatened to report him and humiliate him beyond belief if he did not get his $20 million dollars. When Michael, Pellicano and Fields did not comply and write him a check he had to show them he meant business by making sure the accusation went public. If they did not go public or were made public through another source it would not have given him the leverage he needed to get what he wanted and he wanted $20 million dollars.
    http://criminallaw.uslegal.com/mandatory-child-abuse-reporting-california/

    If I were to suspect someone I would report them immediately, that is my job. MY first concern is to the child not to the suspected or alleged perpetator no matter who it was, famous or not they would have been investigated. So knowing that Michael would have had no legal ramification against him if he reported it why didn’t he just pick up the phone and call child protective services or other local point of entry? Because they would not have gotten him his $20 million dollars.

    Like

  137. April 20, 2011 4:20 pm

    Thetis, this is MARVELLOUS!

    Though we know a big part of this information by now I am absolutely thrilled to read your fantastic summary of the case – you masterfully dot all those i’s and cross your t’s.

    It is an absolute thriller to read and I am reading it as if it were for the first time. Looking forward to the rest of it.

    It is just what the doctor ordered!

    Like

  138. Deborah Ffrench permalink
    April 20, 2011 4:00 pm

    Wonderful work Olga.

    This is an excellent contribution to the body of credible, factual, research on this period and beyond, that refutes absolutely the falsity alleged against Michael Jackson.

    Like

  139. katerina permalink
    April 20, 2011 3:29 pm

    gosh… The more I learn about this story the more astonished I am.. But I do have a question I assume most of us do. Why doesn’t Jordan come forward now?? How on earth is he even able to sleep at nights??? I’m so sick of seeing every idiot being manipulated by media and when someone comes with proof against his delusions they still refuse to admit it.

    Like

Trackbacks

  1. Did Michael Jackson Pay Families Off? | It's In Our Nature
  2. April 11th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Bob Jones, Stacy Brown, June Chandler, and Dwayne Swingler, Part 3 of 4 « Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0
  3. Fact Checking Michael Jackson’s Christian Faith, Part 6 of 7: Christians Who Have DEFENDED Michael! « Vindicating Michael
  4. Fact Checking Michael Jackson’s Christian Faith, Part 2 of 5: Michael Did NOT “Channel” Demon Spirits to Help Him Write Songs! « Vindicating Michael
  5. Joe Jackson And Abuse | rhythm of the tide
  6. Transcript of Matt Drudge’s vehement defense of Michael Jackson in 2005, part 2 of 3 « Vindicating Michael
  7. Debunking the Demonic Deception…Michael Jackson and the Truth: Part 2 « Reflections on the Dance
  8. When It Comes To Michael Jackson, Andrew Breitbart and Matt Drudge are Poles Apart! « Vindicating Michael
  9. HIStory vs EVANstory: The 1993 allegations Part 1 (via Vindicating Michael) « Alondra Jimenez's (ilovemjforever's) Blog
  10. Trasncript Analysis- Chandler’s Behaviors and Words- Part 2 | mjjjusticeproject
  11. Joe Jackson’s Abuse On His Children « Et Tu, Brutus?
  12. Psych Interview With Jordan Chandler | mjjjusticeproject
  13. Transcript Analysis -Chandler’s behavior and words.. Part 1 | mjjjusticeproject

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