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Blanca Francia’s Deposition BLASTS the Wade Robson Story

December 4, 2019

The name of Blanca Francia is now firmly associated with Wade Robson. She used to be a personal maid to Michael Jackson, who later made controversial statements about him, and Robson insisted on Michael’s innocence for the first 30 years of his life, but since making his U-turn in 2013 has told most horrible things about his former friend.

So previously Francia and Robson were on the opposite sides of the barrier, and now they are allies whose case against Jackson is based on each other stories – Blanca Francia thinks she saw the shadow of Robson in Michael Jackson’s shower at Neverland, and Robson, though recalling none of it himself, goes much further and claims she saw Michael Jackson “rubbing the Plaintiff” and “the Plaintiff’s head was pressed against Michael Jackson’s stomach area.”

The above Robson’s statements come from his Motion to amend his third amended complaint filed on September 9, 2016 (for its screenshot see the collage below).

The collage, combining an excerpt from the 2016 Motion and Robson’s milder version of the same from an earlier court document, was made by Hammer whose Twitter account also introduced me to the recent 2016 deposition of Blanca Francia.

Why is the description of the shower episode different in Robson’s two court documents and why is the amended 2016 version so gross in its content?

Whenever Robson’s story is found inconsistent his standard reply is that his memory “evolved”. But given that the new amendment was made three days after Blanca Francia’s deposition on September 6, 2016, it would be logical to assume that Robson took all those salacious details from her new testimony – however the problem here is that Blanca Francia said nothing of the kind there, so Robson must have drawn inspiration from another source.

Of course Blanca Francia’s deposition is available to us only in the bits and pieces put online by the one who bought those pages from the court reporter, but when you start reading the little we have, you will realize that even the above graphic content is not that important as it fades in comparison with the discovery we make there.

The thing is that Blanca Francia’s deposition discloses to us a new, big and really fundamental problem the two allies are facing now. It is fundamental because it overturns the foundations of their story, so all those details no longer matter and the new discovery is a disaster to their alliance as a whole.

Blanca Francia’s recent deposition reveals that she could not see Wade Robson in that shower because by the time of the alleged episode Robson had not even arrived in the US.

The proof that Robson was not there is irrefutable and the only real shock to me is that no one has yet noticed it. The reason for that is probably because very few people had access to Blanca Francia’s depositions  –  I myself found them only recently, after seeing some of those pieces on Hammer’s twitter account.

This link will take you to an 82-page selection from Blanca Francia’s two latest depositions. Yes, she was deposed twice as the dates on the papers show it – first on September 6, 2016 and then a month later, on October 3. The text format of those depositions is different, so when you see the pages you will easily differentiate between the two.

Wade Robson was present at least at the first deposition because its cover page mentions his attendance.

The cover pages of the second deposition are missing, so we don’t know if he was present, but there is every reason to believe that he was.

During Blanca Francia’s testimony Robson’s side was represented by Mr. Manly and Mr. Finaldi. The side of MJJ Productions was represented by Ms. MacIsaac.

Both sides also read out some excerpts from Blanca Francia’s earlier deposition in 1994 when she was deposed within the framework of the Chandler civil case against Jackson by the attorneys in that case – Johnny Cochran (for MJ) and Larry Feldman (for the Chandlers).

With so many documents interloping with each other the first impression is that this collection of papers is a bit of a mess, and this is evidently why the person who uploaded them underlined some of Blanca Francia’s statements to immediately navigate the reader to the worst in her testimony.

In fact, this most “damning” part of Blanca Francia’s testimony is in the excerpt below, and we see that though this is indeed the worst Blanca Francia ever claimed about Jackson, none of it contains those salacious details described by Robson in his fabricated complaint.

Blanca Francia’s deposition on September 6, 2016. Pages 129-130.


deposition 129Q. So, did there ever come a time when you came into Michael’s roam and you heard him in the shower with a boy?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you describe that.

A. I came with clothes, that I remember, and went into his room, and I hear loud music, and I hear  laughing and giggling and, you know, screaming, you know, and as I was walking to the bathroom, to the shower, I hear little voice of a boy and Michael’s  voice, and I — as I was walking, I looked down and I  saw a pair of underwear which was little underwears and Michael’s underwear, and I stopped, and I saw them in the shower.

Q. Was it kind of fogged –

A. Yes.

Q. — the glass? So you saw an outline of Michael’s body?

A. Yes. And I hear a little — the giggling.

Q. Okay.

A. The little boy’s.

Q. Whose voice did the little voice sound like?

A. Wade.

Q. Wade was staying at the property at the time; correct?

deposition 130A. Yea. And I know they were his little underwears because I washed them before.

Q. Were they green?

A. Green. Neon green.

Q. Did you stay there watching?

A. No. I watched him, and that’s when I – when I — when I — when I start to realize what’s going on.

Q. Tell me about that.

A. I see him taking baths, taking — staying at the Jacuzzi from — from Havenhurst, but at that time  when I saw him with the little underwears there and — and his underwear, that’s when I started to realize maybe something’s going on here.

Q. Did you start to think that maybe it wasn’t just innocent play?

A. Yeah.

Q. Were you worried for the boys when you started to think about this when you saw them in the shower?

A. I feel so guilty about little Wade. I felt like I didn’t do anything. I didn’t say anything. I could have said something to the mother, and then I didn’t say anything, and — and that was burning me all  the time, and I didn’t say anything, and I still  continued working there.

So in her September 2016 deposition Blanca Francia claimed that she had seen “an outline of MJ’s body and heard him giggling”, and that she also” heard the little boy’s voice.” The boy was “Wade” who was “staying at the property at the time” and somewhere there “there was the little underwears.”

But in her second deposition on October 3, 2016 where Blanca Francia was mostly deposed by Ms. MacIsaac, she told a completely different story – about one shadow and one voice heard from behind that foggy glass. And Michael Jackson was not laughing out loud, but just gave a little hee-hee-hee laugh. And a moment later she left.

In the excerpt below Ms. MacIsaac reads out to Francia her earlier deposition taken on January 1994 (Exhibit 11), and it is this earlier deposition that tells Blanca Francia’s real story and opens up its big secret to us.

The earlier deposition is put in italics for easier differentiation.

Blanca Francia’s deposition on October 3, 2016. Pages 263-273.


deposition2 263Q. …when you entered Michael Jackson’s room on this day in December of 1989, the door was locked and you had to use your key?

A. Yes.

Q. And if you turn to page 393, and this is again Exhibit 11, 393. And if you look at lines 5 to 9 on that page, 393.

A. Yes.

Q. You further testified under oath that when you approached the bathroom that day and heard the water running, you knew someone was there?

A. Page 393?

Q. Yeah. From 5 to 9. Do you see that you testified that when you approached the bathroom on that day, you heard the water running and you knew somebody was in the bathroom. Do you see that?

A. Yes. Yes.

Q. Okay. And if you look at the same page, 393, and you focus on lines 8 to 9, do you see that you further testified that despite hearing the water run and believing someone was in the bathroom, you did not turn around but you entered the bathroom anyway?

A. Yes.

deposition2 264Q. Let’s turn to page 395. And I want to focus you on lines 4 to 7. Do you see that you again confirmed under oath in this deposition in 1994 that once you heard the shower running, you knew that somebody was in the bathroom. Do you see that?

A. Yes.

Q. And let’s focus on the same page of Exhibit 11, page 395, lines 18 to 20 now. Lines 18 to 20. Do you see that you testified under oath that you had never previously been in the bathroom when Michael Jackson was showering and that this was the first time that you had approached the shower while Mr. Jackson was showering?

A. Yes.

Q. Let’s go to page 396. And look at lines 13 to 15. Do you see that you testified under oath that the reason you didn’t turn around was because you wanted to get a peek of Michael Jackson without his clothes on?

A. That was the question.

Q. So at page 396 —

A. 15.

Q. — line 13, the question was: “You wanted to peek and see this man with no clothes on, right, ma’am?” “Answer: Yeah.” Do you see that?

deposition2 265A. Yes.

Q. I’ve accurately read your testimony from 1994?

A. Yes.

Q. And then you talked about what you actually saw when you took this peek.

A. Yes.

Q. And we’re going to go over that. And I’m going to read it into the record. And I’m going to start and I want you to follow along with me.

A. Okay.

Q. I’m going to start at page 397, line 14. And I’m going to read into the record until 399, line 23. This is Exhibit 11. We’re starting at 397,line 14: 

Question: When you looked around the corner, what did you see at that point?

“Answer: What do you mean? I see him. I saw Michael.

“Question: What did you see? You saw Mr. Jackson?

“Answer: Uh-huh.                             

“Question: Did he have any clothes on?        

“Answer: I didn’t see that.

deposition2 266“Question: What did you see?

“Answer: I just saw the shadow.

“Question: You saw the shadow of what you believe was Michael Jackson?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question: You never saw him, did you?        

“Answer: No.

“Question: You saw the shadow of what you thought was a man, right?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question: Did you see any other shadow at that point?  

“Answer: No.

“Question: Was the glass foggy?

“Answer: Yeah.

“Question: So you couldn’t really see clearly the glass, right? You just saw a figure; is that right? 

“Answer: Uhhuh.

“Question: You saw only one figure at that point?        

“Answer: Yes.

deposition2 267“Question: Okay. And as you saw this one figure, did you at that point continue on or did you turn around and go back?

“Answer: I went back.

“Question:   So you now — you have seen your peek. You have taken your peek as you said, right?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question: And your peek was looking for just a very short time like that?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question:   Was it very quick?

“Answer: Yeah.

“Question:   And you saw what appeared to be a man, right?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question:   You only saw one figure, right?    

“Answer:  Yeah.

“Question:   And then you then turned around and went back out, correct?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question: Is that right?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question:   And that’s all you saw?

“Answer: Yes.

deposition2 268“Question: Is that right?

MANLY: Counsel, could you slow down?


“Answer: Yes.

“Question: You never saw any other person in there when you were inside there, did you?

“Answer: No. But once I got close to it, I hear laughing.

“Question: But you never saw anybody else in the shower, right?

“Answer:  No.”

Q. Did I correctly read your deposition testimony from January of 1994?

A. Yes.

Q. So I counted up that during just this portion of your testimony that I just read into the record, that you said under oath at least six times that you only saw one figure in the shower —

A. Yes.

Q. — on that day in December 1989, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. So let’s talk about what you heard, what you actually heard during the shower incident in December of 1989.

A. Yes.

deposition2 269Q. So still on Exhibit 11, starting at page 399, lines 24 through page 417, I’m going to read that into the record.

FINALDI: You’re reading 399 to 417?


Q. No. 399, lines 24 through page 400, line 17. Sorry. Are you with me?

A. Yes.

Q. So again, on Exhibit 11, page 399, line 24.

A. Okay.

“Question: You heard some laughing?

“Answer: Yeah.

“Question: When was it you heard the laughing?

“Answer: When I got real close. When I saw and hear the laugh.

“Question: What kind of laughing did you hear?

“Answer: You know, just laughing. Not real loud but laughing like hee hee hee, like that.

“Question: You heard hee hee hee laughing?

“Answer: Yeah, like that.

deposition2 270“Question: Did you recognize any voices you heard?

“Answer: It was Michael.

“Question: You heard Michael laughing?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question: Did you hear anything else other than Michael laughing?

“Answer: No.

“Question: That’s all you heard?”

“Answer: Uh-huh.”

Q. Do you see that?

A. Yes.

Q. Did I accurately read your testimony, your under oath testimony from January of 1994?

A. Yes.

Q. So here again, asked more than once what you heard, and you said more than once that you only heard one voice laughing?

FINALDI: Asked and answered.


Q. Is that yes?

A. That’s what I, that’s what I say.

Q. And after this, Mr. Cochran asked you a series of follow-up questions to really make sure that he had gotten your testimony correct regarding this alleged 1989 shower incident –

deposition2 271FINALDI: Assumes facts not in evidence.


— and to make sure that you were telling the truth. Do you remember that?

FINALDI: Assumes facts not in evidence as to Mr. Cochran’s state of mind.


Well, let’s look at what Mr. Cochran asked you. And this is Exhibit 11 starting at page 400. And I’m going to read into the record lines 18 through page 402, line 3. So let’s start. Exhibit 11, page 400, line 18.

“Question: So let me see if I understand it. You came in there. This is December of 1989. You were curious and you wanted to take a peek at Mr. Jackson while he was showering once you got in there, right?

“Answer: Uh-huh.

“Question: You went around and you took a peek. Through a foggy shower glass you saw the figure of what you thought was a man, what you think was Mr. Jackson?

“Answer: Yes.

deposition2 272“Question: And you heard a giggle or a laugh that appeared like Mr. Jackson’s laugh, right?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question: And you turned around and you left?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question: You never saw anybody else in that shower right? At that point?

“Answer: Well, no.

“Question: Then you then left the room; is that right?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question: And you have now told me everything that occurred on that particular occasion regarding the shower; isn’t that right?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question: And again, you are under oath today, right?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question: And you are telling the truth to the best of your ability?

“Answer: Yes.

deposition2 273“Question: You are not lying to us, are you?

“Answer: No.

“Question: You are being honest?

MANLY: Counsel, could you slow down, please?


“Answer: Yes.

“Question: And you have told us everything, right?

“Answer: Yes.”

Q. Ms. Francia, did I read that testimony that you gave under oath in 1994 accurately?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you recall testifying in Michael Jackson’s criminal trial in 2005 regarding this alleged shower incident?

A. Did I came over?

Q. Do you recall testifying in —

A. Yes.

Q. — Michael Jackson’s criminal trial —

A. Yes.

Q. — in 2005 regarding this alleged shower incident from ’89?

(end of excerpt)

Remember that Blanca Francia’s deposition in January 1994 came after she had spoken to Diane Dimond on her Hard Copy TV program and presented there a much dirtier story for the $20,000 they paid her. This means that later, when speaking under oath Blanca Francia went back on what she claimed in that program and was now giving an honest and truthful account of what she really saw in December 1989.

And now her story was very much different – she entered Michael Jackson’s room, heard the water running in the bathroom and was so curious to see Michael naked (which points to her personal interest in him) that she took a peek inside. She saw a shadow of a man and no one else there, heard only Michael’s voice and no one else’s, and also Michael’s little hee hee hee laugh (the way people laugh to themselves when they think of something funny). A moment later she turned around and left. And that was all.

So there was no other figure in the shower and there was no other voice – all of it is just Blanca Francia’s imagination, some of which she even dared present at the 2005 trial.  

And there was certainly no “rubbing” or “pressing on MJ’s stomach area” which are blatant lies never traced in her depositions or trial testimony.

The same collection of papers points to the reason why Blanca Francia thinks that Wade could be in that shower – she says that at that time little Wade was staying at the property and an hour after the bathroom episode she saw Michael Jackson and Wade together, and this gave her reason enough to assume that Wade had also been in that shower.

Yes, all of it was simply her assumption.

We learn about it from the 2016 deposition pages referring to Larry Feldman this time. He deposed Blanca Francia in December 1993, and it was with Larry Feldman that she shared her impressions of that episode. When Johnny Cochran continued to depose her in January 1994, Larry Feldman heard her contradict herself and asked questions to clarify the discrepancy.

And now Ms. MacIsaac is just reminding Blanca Francia of that drama.

Blanca Francia’s deposition on October 3, 2016. Pages 426-431     

deposition2 426


Q. And just read from page 423, line 10,through 428, line 14. Just read that to yourself.

FINALDI:   Which page?

MACISAAC: 423, line 10, through 428, line 14.

MS.MACISAAC [to the witness]:

Q. Just take your time and read it over.

Okay. So is it fair to say that at this point during your testimony, Mr. Feldman was following up on the inconsistency we just talked about between what you had testified to on December 15th, 1993, and what you told Mr. Cochran earlier that day?

FINALDI: Calls for speculation.


deposition2 427BY MS. MACISAAC:

Q. And do you see that Mr. — this is page 423. Mr. Feldman specifically read to you testimony where you had said that you had — exactly what Mr. Manly had read, the testimony where you said that you saw Mr. Jackson and Wade Robson in the shower together. This is the top of page 423. And he asked you, was that true? And your answer then was, well, I supposed that it was him because he was with him that day.

A. Because he what?

Q. Because he was with him that day.

A. Yes.

Q. So you did not say when Mr. Feldman showed you the prior testimony that Mr. Manly just showed you, you didn’t say, oh, that’s true, I did see him. You said that you had supposed that you saw Wade Robson based on the fact that he was there at the ranch with Michael Jackson, correct?

A. Yes.

FINALDI: Misstates testimony.


deposition2 428Q. And then if you turn – [… ] If you look at page 423, starting at line 23, Mr. Feldman again showed you your prior testimony.

“Question: How many times?

“Answer: Besides him in the tub, I saw him once.

“Question: Is that true?

“Answer: Yes.

“Question: One time in the shower?

Q. And your answer to that was yes. And then Mr. Feldman said, was that true? And then your answer at line 6 on page 424 was: “Well, like I said, I suppose it was him.”  

Do you see that?

A. Yes.

FINALDI: Asked and answered.


Q. And I read that accurately?

A. Yes.

Q. Was that true?

A. That’s what I’m saying. It was just Michael and Wade at that time.

deposition2 429Q. Right. But you didn’t say you saw Wade. You said that you just —

A. But nobody else —

Q. — assumed it was Wade?

A. Nobody else will be in the shower but Michael and Wade because they were there that day. Nobody else. Not the gardeners, not security got here and take a shower. Just them.

Q. It was a big ranch, wasn’t it?

A. Yeah. But nobody ever would come and take a shower in Michael’s shower.

Q. Right, because you only saw one figure. This is asking you. Mr. Feldman is following up and saying, did you see Wade and you’re saying no, I just supposed he was in there.

FINALDI: All right. Asked and answered. You’re just arguing with her.

THE WITNESS: Still, thinking that it was him because he was the only person who take a shower in the shower.


deposition2 430Q. Okay. And then — and then he asked you, if you turn to page 426, Mr. Feldman, he asked you if you heard two people giggling in that shower, and  this is line 3 to 4. “Did you hear two people giggling in the shower?”

And your answer in 1994 was, at line 5: 

“Well, I didn’t really — see, it was, it was noisy and it was — I knew that I wasn’t doing, you know, something appropriate, you know, just to walk in and want to peek.

“Question: But could you tell whether two people were in the shower? In other words, did you hear two different voices, two different giggles?

“Answer: I only hear Mr. Jackson, but I didn’t see Wade in the room. So once they came out of the room, that’s what I supposed, that they were in there together in the shower.”  

Q. Do you see that? Did I read that accurately?

A. Yes.

Q. And then on page 427, at lines 22 to 24, up through page 428, line 14 – let me start this way. Why don’t you go to page 428, lines 9 to 14.

deposition2 431“Question: “And how long after you saw Wade’s underwear and Mr. Jackson’s underwear at the shower, Mr. Jackson giggling, did you see then Wade and Mr. Jackson together?

“Answer: How long?

“Question: How much time elapsed?

Answer: Maybe an hour later.” 

Q. Did I read that accurately?

A. Yes.

Q. Was that truthful?

A. Yes.

Q. […]

The above shows Blanca Francia to be a universal kind of a witness whose story will suit just anyone.

In December 1993 she testified that she had seen MJ and Wade in the shower, and in January 1994 she testified that she hadn’t seen them and it was only an assumption. And 20+ years later both sides quote the respective pieces from her depositions and to a certain extent each of them is right.

With so much vagueness about this marvellous witness let us single out only the hard facts from her story.

  • She never spoke about any “rubbing” and “pressing the boy’s head against MJ’s stomach area”.
  • On one occasion she saw MJ and this boy in the bath tub (Jacuzzi) together.
  • In the shower she saw only one shadow and heard one voice – and that was Michael’s shadow and Michael’s voice. During the brief moment she peeked into the bathroom she also heard Michael make a little hee-hee-hee laugh.
  • She did not see Wade or any other boy in that shower.
  • But she assumed that Wade was there because the boy was “at the property” at that time.
  • She also saw the neon green underwear lying somewhere, and an hour later she saw Wade and Michael together.
  • She said that no one else but MJ and Wade had access to that bathroom – no gardener, no security people. The simple thought that Michael Jackson was in the shower alone didn’t even occur to her and the fact that she saw only one shadow and heard only one voice didn’t convince her either.
  • Her reasoning was simple – if Wade wasn’t in that room he must have been in the shower, especially since she allegedly saw some underwear lying around. It never occurred to her that the boy could take a shower by himself or could leave his underwear after the Jacuzzi, and could go back to his mother, or could be playing a game elsewhere, or could be having a meal, watching a movie or even sleeping in the second floor bedroom. In her opinion if she didn’t see him in that room the only place he could be was the shower, with no other options ever considered.

So the only facts her testimony is based upon is that little Wade was staying at the property at that time and that the little boy’s underwear was allegedly found somewhere around. All the rest was an assumption on her part.

But was Wade Robson staying at the property at that time?

The crucial detail you have surely noticed is that Blanca Francia described this event as taking place in December 1989 and by that time Robson had not even arrived in the US.

A short reminder about what she said in the 1990s:

Q. Well, let’s look at what Mr. Cochran asked you. And this is Exhibit 11 starting at page 400.
“Question: So let me see if I understand it. You came in there. This is December of 1989. You were curious and you wanted to take a peek at Mr. Jackson while he was showering once you got in there, right?
“Answer: Uh-huh.

Could Blanca Francia misremember the date?

Well, the December 1989 period was fixed in her earlier depositions from 1993 and 1994 when her memory was still fresh, so it wasn’t a recent development when her memory could indeed fail her.

And the exact time was surely defined by the two attorneys who deposed Blanca Francia on two different occasions  – Johnny Cochran and Larry Feldman, so if one of them overlooked to clarify the point, the other would have corrected him.

And it wasn’t just some random period which Blanca Francia named. December 1989 was Christmas time, and if she spoke about Christmas it means that it was really Christmas, with all its fun, festivities and decorations – a memorable event if not for Michael Jackson, but at least for her.

And that particular Christmas is special to us because the Robsons were not even on the horizon yet. Their first visit to the US was to celebrate the January 26 Australia day at Disneyland and they went to Neverland almost ten days later, on February 3, 1990, when they finally managed to contact Michael Jackson.

So irrespective of what Blanca Francia saw or assumed about the shower event, none of it has anything to do with Wade Robson, to say the very least.

The matter could be closed at this point if it were not for Robson’s supporters who will certainly venture a theory that Blanca Francia misremembered the year and was speaking, say, about December 1990.

But even this will not help Robson because in December 1990 he wasn’t in the US either.

His first visit there was in Jan/February 1990, his second in May 1990, his third in February 1991 and in September 1991 Joy, Chantal and Wade Robson already arrived in the US on a permanent stay.

These dates were clarified by Joy Robson in her testimony in 2005:

By Mr. Sneddon:

Q. You came back in May of 1990, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And you were here for six weeks, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And then you came back again in February of 1991, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. For about seven days?

A. Yes.

Q. And during the time that you were here in 1991, you spent time on the ranch, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. When you visited in September of 1991, you came permanently, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And then from that point, from September of 1991 up till, let’s just say, September 1993 -okay? – the time frame involved, you and your son spent a great deal of time with Michael Jackson, you were around him a lot, correct?

A. I don’t think so.

Q. You were not at the ranch on a number of occasions during 1991?

A. My memory is in the entire time we’ve lived here since 1991, we’ve only been at the ranch with Michael on four occasions in 14 years.

Q. Four occasions?

A. Every other time we’ve been here without him.

Q. You testified that you’ve been out at the ranch on an average of about four times?

A. Four times a year, but Michael was never there.

Q. Was that all the way through today?

A. Yes.

Q. He’s never there when you go there?

A. Very rarely. I can only remember four times in 14 years that we’ve been there with him since we have lived here.

Incidentally, now we also understand why Joy Robson emphasized that Wade and MJ had been together at Neverland only 4 times in 14 years since their arrival in the US – obviously this was a sore point with her, and this is why she remembered Wade’s rare occasions with MJ so clearly.

But at the moment our main concern is the time frame of that unfortunate episode of MJ taking a shower, and we see that neither December 1989 nor December 1990 fit the Wade Robson timeline.

Of course we can also fantasize like Blanca Francia and assume that she misremembered not only the year, but the month, season and even took one boy for another, but what will be the good of her so-called testimony then? The value of such testimony will be zero.

All of us can assume anything we like, but if the assumption is not proven by facts, none of it will have any value whatsoever.

For example, we can assume that the boy she called “Wade from a different country” was Brett Barnes instead. The fun fact is that the Barnes family visited Neverland in December too, only it was December 1991 – when Blanca Francia had not worked at the ranch for half a year already (she left in June 1991).

We learn this date from Brett’s mother Lisbeth Marie Barnes who testified in 2005 about their first visit to Neverland:

Q. And what is your son’s name?

A. Brett.

Q. When did you first meet him? [Michael Jackson]

A. 19 — December 1991.

Q. And how did you meet him?

A. Well, actually, when I met him personally was in December of 1991, but I had spoken to him for several years prior to that. I — he invited us to his home in December 1991, and that’s when I met him for the first time.

Q. Okay. And your first visit to Neverland was when, what year, if you know?

A. December 1991.

Q. Okay. And who did you visit Neverland with?

A. Our family. My husband, my two children.

Q. Okay. And how long did you stay there?

A. About three weeks. Well, we stayed with Michael for that three weeks. He took us to Disneyland, to Las Vegas, and, yes, we were together for three weeks.

Since the Neverland winter guests seemed to arrive mostly in December, now the reason why Blanca Francia also spoke about December becomes clearer. Being a Jehovah Witness Michael himself did not celebrate Christmas, at least not until mid 1990s, but for others this period was really the most convenient time for a long visit to Neverland and other places Michael invited them to.

For most people and especially children this was holiday time, but not for Jackson.

Mike Smallcombe, MJ’s biographer gives us the idea what Michael Jackson was really busy with in the winter of 1989/1990 and the complex personal and business issues he handled in the period after it (and Mike Smallcombe does not yet know about that fake Project M and only briefly mentions the huge power grab of Michael’s business by Geffen’s team!).

In early November [1989] Michael received a visit at the studio from a long-time friend, Buz Kohan, who was trying to persuade him to perform at an allstar tribute to Sammy Davis Jr’s 60 years in show business. Kohan was co-producing and writing the show, which was being taped for broadcast on November 13 at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles.

At the time, Michael was in extreme pain from the Pepsi commercial accident when his hair caught on fire.”Kohan and Schlatter hadn’t realised just how much distress Michael was in. “He took us into a back bathroom at the studio and asked us to feel his head,” Kohan recalls. “He told me he was in constant pain and on painkillers. Because of this, he truly didn’t know whether he would be able to perform at all.”

Between November 1989 and January 1990, Michael and the crew switched from Westlake to the Record One studio complex, located in Sherman Oaks in the San Fernando Valley. They had exclusive 24-hour access to the studio, costing an estimated $4,000 a day. Matt Forger said they required two studio rooms full time for a year, as Michael was entertaining the idea of recording a full album of new material rather than releasing Decade.

Michael was also going through personal difficulties. In April [1990] a close friend of his, Ryan White, died from AIDS complications at the age of 18. His grandmother Martha Bridges also died a month later, as did one of his idols, Sammy Davis Jr.

By 1989 and 1990, Michael was becoming increasingly influenced by his close friend and business confidant, entertainment mogul David Geffen. After the Bad Tour he fired his accountant in favour of one who was working for Geffen, as well as his manager, Frank DiLeo.  Michael finally hired a replacement for DiLeo in the summer of 1990. The new man, Sandy Gallin, who was brought in along with his management partner Jim Morey, was also a Geffen associate.

Advising Michael to replace DiLeo with Gallin was said to be part of Geffen’s wider agenda of avenging his enemy Walter Yetnikoff, the CBS president. Michael told CBS he wouldn’t be delivering his new album until his contract was improved, and felt the solution was to fire Branca and hire a new attorney to secure a better deal. Convinced it was the right decision, Michael dismissed Branca in the summer of 1990 after ten hugely successful years of working together.

Yetnikoff believes it was Geffen who influenced Michael to fire DiLeo and Branca, two of Yetnikoff’s close allies, and replace them with his own associates. One of Michael’s new attorneys, Bert Fields, admits it was Geffen who brought him and Michael together. Perhaps tellingly, Branca’s law partner Kenneth Ziffren also severed his ties with Geffen and his company in the wake of Branca’s dismissal. 

Getting back to December 1989 we now know that Michael was in the process of moving from one studio to another, which would cost him $4,000 a day, so a few days at Christmas were probably the only time he could spare for his Neverland guests.

Is there any chance that at the time described by Blanca Francia at least some boy was visiting Neverland?

You will be surprised, but there was a boy who was Michael’s guest in December 1989.

His name was Ryan White. 

Ryan White was an AIDS victim, a hemophiliac diagnosed with the disease at age 13 in 1983. Five years later he was already in poor shape, and in an effort to boost his spirits and ease his life, in the summer of 1989 Michael Jackson sent him a Mustang car as a gift.

In December 1989 Ryan celebrated his 18th birthday, and this is when Michael called him again and invited him to Neverland. This wasn’t the boy’s first visit to Neverland, but it was his last – his health was deteriorating rapidly and in April 1990 the boy died.

Ryan White gravestone with tributes from E.John and MJ [from ‘A Quiet Hero – a life of Ryan White’]

The book “The Quiet Hero – a Life of Ryan White” by Nelson Price describes Ryan’s holiday at Neverland in December 1989:

“During the break for the holidays, Ryan received another invitation from Michael Jackson to visit Neverland Ranch.

So in late December, after Ryan celebrated Christmas with his family in Cicero, he flew to Los Angeles. He brought an electrical heater and wore a leather coat even in the California sun.

At the Los Angeles airport, he was met by Jackson’s security guards and a limousine. During the three-hour ride to Neverland Ranch, Ryan suffered from cramps and a stomach ache. He continued to feel ill even after he settled into his bungalow at the ranch. From his cottage, Ryan phoned Jeanne and wondered whether he should have made the trip.

But he perked up after savoring a hearty dinner with Jackson. According to Ryan’s autobiography, the two then enjoyed a movie marathon in the private theater at Neverland. They watched a series of movies featuring the Three Stooges slapstick comedy team.

The next morning, Ryan joined Jackson on a shopping spree for toys that the pop singer intended to donate to children. During a later shopping trip, one of Jackson’s staff thought his friends needed a heavier coat. Jackson also gave him a new stereo system before Ryan returned to Indiana on New Year’s Day.”

Ryan White’s last public appearance was in March 1990 when he met President Ronald Reagan and Nancy Reagan.

The picture of them together shows Ryan to be a frail boy with a swollen stomach who looked much younger than his real age. Sadly, soon thereafter he would go into a coma and die without regaining his consciousness.

There is absolutely no reason to assume that Michael Jackson went to a shower with Ryan White, but we know it for a fact that to a Jacuzzi they did go together as Michael’s big idea was to take Ryan to Neverland and bring him in the Jacuzzi.

At that time no one yet knew how the HIV infection spread and people were afraid to even breathe the same air with Ryan White, so Michael’s intention was to show Ryan that he wasn’t a pariah to be shunned and feared. Michael was even warned about the possible danger, but it didn’t stop him from taking the risk.

Michael’s doctor Arnold Klein spoke about it in his interview with Larry King.

KING: “You wanted to tell me something about Michael and Ryan White, the young boy dying of AIDS.

KLEIN: That’s very important, yes. Michael wanted to bring Ryan White to Neverland. And his plastic surgeon, a brilliant surgeon, said you can’t bring him in the Jacuzzi because you may catch AIDS.

KING: You’re kidding?

KLEIN: No, he said that. Honestly, honest to God. So Michael called me, and he said, “Will I catch AIDS if I go in the Jacuzzi with Ryan White?” I said, no way. And he was very good friends with Ryan White until he died. And that’s what people don’t know.

KING: Did he go in the Jacuzzi with him?

KLEIN: Absolutely, because, you know what? He really cared. I want to tell you, this is a person who really cared about other people. He’s unlike anyone I ever met.”

Michael Jackson really cared and was unlike anyone we ever met.

And that’s the point all these Robsons and Francias will never understand.


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13 Comments leave one →
  1. December 6, 2019 1:33 pm

    “at 8:28 you can see the shower exactly how Blanca could have seen it.” – Мария

    Well, actually I already discussed it in 2013. It was so long ago that now I’ve read that post as if for the first time 🙂

    Everything stated there is still true today, and the only correction I would make is that 6 years ago I thought that this shower episode took place in summer, but now we know that it was in December. In December 1989.
    And at that time we didn’t know about the difference in her 1993 and 1994 depositions as this information transpired only recently.

    But all the rest of it, including the point that the door must have been closed and Blanca must have opened it and entered, still holds for today. And even if there had been any other voices heard (though they were not) it could have found an explanation too, considering the floorplan and the photo of that shower.

    There are also some details in that old post about Diane Dimond’s Hard Copy program and the way the media reported it that make the whole picture even more complete.

    The old post also makes it clear that though Robson took those “rubbing” and “pressing” fabricated details from Sneddon’s 1108 Motion, Sneddon himself had taken them from Diane Dimond’s tabloid program and not from Blanca Francia’s depositions – which is another point to add to the collection of Sneddon’s manipulations in MJ’s case:


  2. December 6, 2019 7:03 am

    In this video
    at 8:28 you can see the shower exactly how Blanca could have seen it.


  3. December 6, 2019 6:35 am
    “Wade was called to face the grand jury, administered by Judge Ito who is currently hearing the O.J. Simpson trial.”

    Did we know that before? That Robson testified before the Grand jury? Was it LA or SB jury?


  4. December 5, 2019 11:38 pm

    Reblogged this on mjjjusticeproject and commented:
    No Train Station for Safechuck – No Shower for Wade – Funny how TIMELINES keep tripping up these two fiction writers-


  5. December 5, 2019 11:36 pm



  6. December 5, 2019 1:37 pm

    I started a blog in Russian
    I’ve translated Evan-Dave conv, and right now I’m translating Jordy-Gardner interview.

    This part is sooo interesting, and reminded me of Wade Robson:

    J: He said that … if people say ‘Don’t worry, just tell us, Michael will go to jail and nothing will happen to me you.’ He said that wasn’t true, and I could, like, go to juvenile hall or something.
    G: That he could go to jail but you’d go to juvenile hall?
    J: Something like that.
    (I think Jordy sensed in Gardner’s tone that something was not right, that’s why he didn’t just say “Yes”)
    G: That he himself could go to jail?
    (Gardner repeats the part about jail. Now Jordy definitely senses something is not right with this part, and immediately takes the jail part back, although then brings it back again, as he is not sure what’s wrong with it.)
    J: I don’t specifically remember. I’m almost positive though, that he said about juvenile hall. I’m almost positive he said that, but I do indeed remember that he said that he would go to jail, and that, like, I wouldn’t get off Scott free.

    I’m not a specialist in Gardner’s field, but based on his reaction it looks for me like it’s NOT very typical for a p-le to say “I could go to jail”. And that’s why Gardner repeated the question (in disbelief, I guess). Logically, it shouldn’t be typical, as it means the p-le admits to his victim he is doing something very bad.

    Now, I don’t remember, if Robson claimed about “jail for abuser + juvenile hall for himself”, or he claimed only “juvenile hall”. I think, if Robson claimed the first variant, he took it from Jordy’s statements, and if it was the second, he took it from Diane Dimond.

    DD in interview CNN, August 26, 1993:
    “This boy said that when he finally, in June, told the superstar that ‘I don’t want to see you anymore’ – they were in Monaco at the time – Jackson threatened him and said, ‘Well, you know, if you tell, you’re going to go to juvenile hall.’ That’s sort of a typical abuser thing to do.”


  7. December 5, 2019 8:30 am

    “It would be interesting to compare 1108 motion with the actual testimonies and tabloid stories of those “witnesses”. Sneddon writes there their stories as facts, but the witnesses told them differently. Also significant how Sneddon told those stories in his motion, but never bothered to ask about some of them during the examination in 2005.” – Мария

    Correct. Up till now I’ve done it only in respect of the Quindoys, Adrian McManus and partially Ralph Chacon, Jolie Levine, LeMarques and some others. But all of it is scattered here and there and one day will require a separate post. It is too vast a subject, so each should be handled separately and only then brought together into one place where fact will be clearly separated from fiction.

    By the way in Ralph Chacon’s chapter of that motion Sneddon did tell a blatant lie, only it is not there on the surface (Sneddon never told lies openly, but only in a way that no one could really nail him).

    In the 1108 motion Sneddon stated that Ralpch Chacon told his so-called “eye-witness” story before the Santa Barbara Grand Jury implying that it was on May 10, 1994. However that Grand Jury disbanded on May 2 or to be more exact on Friday, April 29th.

    At the very same time the Grand Jury in Los Angeles continued its deliberations, and this is where Ralph Chacon was also subpoenaed.

    But Chacon never testified there because he didn’t want to contradict his earlier testimony, so he didn’t appear before that LA Grand Jury at all, and on May 10, 1994 made a simple statement to Sneddon which doesn’t have any legal value.

    But Sneddon wanted to present it as Chacon’s official testimony and manipulated with the dates leaving us with impression that on May 10, 1994 the Santa Barbara still continued its deliberations.

    Or that on May 10 Chacon appeared before the Grand Jury in Los Angeles.

    In reality Chacon testified only once, before the Santa Barbara Grand Jury and didn’t say a single bad word about MJ then. The opposite was said only on May 10, 1994 and only in the form of a statement, which any passerby from a street can do. And then it was a mere technicality on Sneddon’s side to present it as Ralph Chacon’s official testimony.

    Ralph Chacon’s U-turn against MJ coincided with obtaining from Sneddon and his people a 2-year permit for carrying weapons and a certain sum of money from Detective Birchim he said he needed for child support.

    More about it here:

    And then people wonder how come the two Grand Juries didn’t hear anything “damning” about Michael Jackson though Sneddon said they did?


  8. December 5, 2019 7:12 am

    It would be interesting to compare 1108 motion with the actual testimonies and tabloid stories of those “witnesses”. Sneddon writes there their stories as facts, but the witnesses told them differently — like Sneddon’s Bob Jones SAW the licking, and in testimony Bob Jones “may be saw, may be not, may be saw and forgot…”, so the actual truth was that Jones WROTE about the licking, but not SAW it.
    Also significant how Sneddon told those stories in his motion, but never bothered to ask about some of them during the examination in 2005.


  9. December 5, 2019 6:15 am

    “The “rubbing” and the “head pressed against stomach area” comes straight from Sneddon’s 1108 motion.”- Мария

    Oh, this is an interesting observation. Even in her testimony in 2005 Blanca Francia said nothing of the kind, so she had either said that directly to Sneddon before that motion or he took it from Diane Dimond’s Hard Copy program. And Robson obviously quoted it from that motion, so at least in this respect he may be “cleared”. The post will need an update.

    Do I understand it correctly, that Sneddon just blatantly LIED about it, as Blanca Francia herself NEVER told anything even close to Sneddon’s tale?

    Sneddon did blatantly lie on several occasions and one day we should make a list of his lies and manipulations. But in case of Blanca Francia I am not sure that it was wholly Sneddon’s fault. This maid was so flexible a witness that she “yes” to almost every idea the prosecution suggested her. For example, for the 1108 motion she allegedly said the following about Jimmy Safechuck:

    Jimmy Safechuck was another “special friend” of the defendant. Safechuck was also observed to spend the night alone with defendant. While at Neverland, she observed defendant and Safechuck in a bed located in a special room at the Neverland theater. The lower portions of their bodies were under the covers and Ms. Francia could see that their upper portions were unclothed.

    Surprisingly Blanca Francia mentioned only one occasion when she observed Safechuck “spending the night” with MJ, and that was in the theater. Actually, she had next to nothing to say about Safechuck, even for that motion which was well before the trial, and this is another big surprise considering that Safechuck now claims his many visits to Neverland.

    But in her testimony in 2005 Blanca Francia accidentally disclosed that even that scene in the theater was a lie – when answering a different question she said that she had never been to the theater “when he was there with kids”:

    page 4999 of the transcript:

    14 Q. And children would sometimes sit in his lap
    15 in the theater watching the movies, didn’t they?
    16 A. I —
    17 Q. Did you ever see that?
    18 A. I never see that. Because I —
    19 Q. I’m sorry.
    20 A. I was never there when he was there with
    21 kids.

    So if you ask me, BOTH Sneddon and Francia were liars, and it is very interesting to follow how these lies contradict each other and go bust.
    In this respect the 1108 motion is a treasure trove and gives a great chance for those comparisons.


  10. Hannah permalink
    December 5, 2019 4:17 am

    Thank you for this article!


  11. December 4, 2019 11:38 pm

    Another great piece of detective work. Thank you so much for comparing the statements and connecting the dots. All very important. The last piece, about Michael and Ryan White at Neverland is heartwarming as well as heartbreaking.


  12. December 4, 2019 7:59 pm

    Of course the haters will say that the reason why Blanca Francia was wrong about the dates or who actually visited Neverland at the time was due to trauma. Am I right, Oprah Winfrey.


  13. December 4, 2019 5:02 pm

    The “rubbing” and the “head pressed against stomach area” comes straight from Sneddon’s 1108 motion.
    Do I understand it correctly, that Sneddon just blatantly LIED about it, as Blanca Francia herself NEVER told anything even close to Sneddon’s tale?
    If I remember correctly, in her testimony and depositions, and even at the “Hard Copy” she never went further then seeing some “images” behind the fogged glass door.


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